Why are indie hipsters incapable of taking criticism? Every time someone points out that indie games are shitty rehashes of older games, ugly, have garbage humor, or are just plain stupid / autistic, there's always at least a few hipsters who have to pipe in and go "so what games do you play" or "name a better game." Is it just ignorance? Is it guerilla marketers?
 |
 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
|
telling an indie dev that you're going to rape or murder them is not criticism.
>ignores actual criticism and exploits "rape/death threats" for sympathy
>actual criticism, like... uhhh...
Thanks for proving the point.
It's the internet. That is as meaningless as calling them a poopyhead. Fricking have a nice day.
Ikr, poor Notch and Scott C. had suffered enough
indies are 'the little guys' in the industry, you can only attack AAA studios and their bullshit, just ignore all of the ways that indie devs are just as bad and money-hungry if not more so
I don't understand how trends like this happen, does it stem from indie jams / expos?
There's a large audience that will buy games like that pretty much regardless of quality
Slay the Spire made a lot of money and card games are easy to make
>game gets a lot of money
>it generates lots of copycats
Not rocket scientist. Just like a lot of indie devs saw that stardew valley sold a lot and now we have a new miniboom of farm-related games.
>I don't understand how trends like this happen, does it stem from indie jams / expos?
That explains some trends, certainly.
The picture is because of the other way the trend happens, The original (In this case Slay the Spire) made a frick ton of money and everyone is jumping in with a direct copycat in an attempt to cash in. Like Doom/Street Fighter Clones in the 90s
Many game design / game dev courses / books / instructors say that making card games is a good way to practising. It's true, too. Using cards gives your game a very easy-to-understand probabilistic base as far as designing and balancing it goes. Plus you can do it without a computer.
>one game comes out, does very well
>shows there's an audience for that style of genre at present
>indies that had an interest in that genre prior now know it's more viable to sell their take on it since the potential audience base grew from the last hit
>card games all use cards
wow, I can't believe it!
brb, gonna make a pic of all FPS games to show that they all look the same
>StS is a hit success
>100 StS clones release immediately after
hmm...
>street fighter is successful
>spawns 100 fighting game clones
>mario is successful
>spawns 100 platformer clones
wow who wouldve thought
street fighter was a flop
difference is that indies are often heralded as the savior of the industry, where you find the creative and passionate games
yet all you find is clones of the rare good indie games and endless shovelware
>yet all you find is clones of the rare good indie games and endless shovelware
The only people that think this are the people who don't play anything besides high budget indie games shilled by journalists and big Youtubers.
wow people follow trends and enjoy patterns no matter how high or low on the totem pole they are
holy shit call the fricking media
>all you find is clones of the rare good indie games and endless shovelware
Same happens in AAA
So? You're pretty much acting like
predicted:
>It's okay when indie games does it.
In racial terms, you would be perfectly fine if you were robbed by a white man at gunpoint instead of a black man.
Literally nobody thinks that all indie games are good. You're arguing against a strawman. However, it's a fact that an indie game is much, much more likely to be a creative and passionate game compared to an AAA game.
>an indie game is much, much more likely to be a creative and passionate game
Not at all. They're shitty trend chasers (and money chasers). See:
Sometimes an indie game is genuinely good and creative; in the same way sometimes a game made by a traditional developer is good a creative. Quality and creativity aren't perks exclusive to indies as you claim.
Name 5 recent AAA games that are genuinely creative.
The fives wiener your mom took last night.
these wieners are not AAA games
What shitholes are you hanging out in that talks about indi devs like that?
/v/
Ganker is nothing but consolwarhomosexualry and hating on everything that doesn't have a e-girl in it.
Good thing that there are so many that you can have both clones and new fresh games.
>new fresh games
would love to hear some, besides Lucas Pope's work
As if popular games inspiring other video games is a new phenomenon, or a phenomenon exclusive to indie games.
are any of them fun though? some anons in a StS thread were saying they liked monster train.
Monster Train is store-brand StS, which is fine if you just want more of StS but slightly different.
Fights In Tight Spaces adds to the formula in a unique way that makes it pretty fun
i dont know why but fight in tight spaces diddnt click for me when i tried it, but i played the nitro kid demo non stop and had a blast.
It's all ass, maybe except for fight in tight space which is the most unique, but it's still shit
Monster Train is pretty fun, though not nearly as balanced as Slay the Spire. Check it out if you want to play a fight-broken-with-broken card game with monster summoning. I wouldn't recommend the DLC though, it makes a ton of builds non-viable.
I really like Griftlands because of how cards upgrade as you use them, and how you craft 2 separate decks per playthrough, but I'm probably the only person on this board that does
They are all similar in many more ways than just using cards to represent gameplay elements.
Having cards on the screen doesn't make them card games.
Your analogy would be more fitting if you said every third person game is the same because you see a player character in third person.
>they are all similar in other ways except the screenshots shown in this image TRUST ME BRO
then why use a screenshot with similar looking hands of cards if that doesn't prove the point you are trying to make?
What is similar between all of them besides the fact that they all have cards at the bottom of the UI, and maybe some extremely common video games elements like health bars?
What's with all the fricking card game vidyas? Isn't one of the main points of vidya that you don't need stand-ins like cards?
Are any of these actual trading/collectable card games that don't require real money to progress or are they just ephemeral roguelike bullshit?
>my game isn't there
bruh add it now
it's the trendchasing indie of the year
it has cards
it has memes
it has anime
play it you'll hate it
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1642010/h8machine/
is this a fricking shitpost game
also yes
but it has fairly robust deckbuilder mechanics, most cardgame players who tested seemed to enjoy it
release date when, homosexual.
August 5.
can I make a frogposter build
someone please list these games. i wish to play them.
Is "card game with cartoony graphics" the new "2deep4u pixelshit"?
TFW I've been making a deck building game since before sts, also inspired by ftl and dominion, but I never got to work on it full time... I might finish it this year...
If I was an indie dev and someone gave me a criticism half as moronic as this image I'd tell you to frick off too
>make a game with 20 minutes of content
>throw in procedural generation and RNG to make it a 200-2000 hour game
who needs level design, pacing, enemy placement and almost every other tenant of good game design when you're an indie?
chasing money, that's all it is
Hollow Knight, Slay the Spire and Stardew sold very well and made bank, so now every other indie dev wants in on those games, which is why there are so many (worse) clones of those 3 titles recently
>every other tenant
It's "tenet," dumbass.
some indie dev definitely told you to piss off with your moronation if is anything to go by lmao
>implying retro game gays arent the biggest fricking onions chugging hipsters in the world
wow i cant believe indie games are 20 dollars, what a ripoff right? its not like all of these shitty boomer arcade games were designed to suck out as much money as possible from children, and then resold on console for full fricking price as worse versions of the original.
Difference between old arcade / console games and modern indie games is 2D games were new then, increasing bits was innovative and pushed hardware limitations and 2D genres were still being established. Indie games in comparison are just riding off the work of real developers from the 80s and 90s and pumping out stale rehashes for money.
>sign on with a large publisher
>still get called independent
Why is this allowed? They are just B or lower budget games.
vampire survivors is literally 1.79 you disingenuous cuck
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the only reason why it was included was the 20 minutes of gameplay aspect. Because in no way is it even difficult either. It's more like a musou powertrip game like dynasty warriors, where the goal is to become as broken as possible.
>90% of indies are 2D pixel metroidvania
>The rest are 2D pixel Rogue clones, RPG maker RPGs, walking simulators where the plot twist is mental illness, porn VNs or mediocre ripoffs of arcade, nes and snes era games.
Indies are as creatively bankrupt as AAA games. That's why I generally don't bother with them (even when there are a few indie games I've enjoyed).
Now you will reply to this post with either
>tranime
>t. AAAA wienersucker (because if you criticize indies somehow means that you're a EA Activision Bethesda garbage consumer)
are you arguing against the reply or speaking out loud? we agree with each other
Arguing against the reply, of course.
but the reply is critical of indie devs, so what's there to argue about? I agree with everything you said
The reply will come from someone else, not you.
>no mention of shitty deckbuilders
Dumb Lauraposter
>I don't like indie games
>I don't like AAA games
cool, you don't like video games, like a true Ganker user.
Oh no, I like some AAAAAAAAAAAA games and many AA / B games. I even like a few indies.
I just think that 99% of indies are not worth playing.
well, you're right, but that 1% is still a huge number because there are so many indie games out there
Is it? Because so far I've only found five indie games worth playing.
Yes. There are a ton of indie games worth playing. You just can't be an uppity homosexual about pixel art.
Yes I can; pixel art is synonymous with low effort to me, which reminds me of something I hate about indie games.
>2D pixel metroidvania
>But the developer adds pretentious names to the bosses and makes the player drop their unused experience points when dying so I'm supposed to believe that the game is 100% the same as a Dark Souls game and a perfectly valid replacement.
>2D pixel metroidvania
>But the developer adds extra attacks when you mash the attack button so I'm supposed to believe that the game is 100% the same as a Devil May Cry game game and a perfectly valid replacement.
>2D pixel metroidvania
>But the developer adds enemies that drop materials that can be used to build new weapons so I'm supposed to believe that the game is 100% the same as a Monster Hunter game game and a perfectly valid replacement.
>2D pixel metroidvania
>But the developer adds backtracking and generic zombie enemies so I'm supposed to believe it's the same as a classic-era Resident Evil game game and a perfectly valid replacement.
An example of this is Evil Tonight: literally top-down RPG maker shit (with anime visuals to boot!), and indie gayots shilled it as a perfectly valid replacement for a Resident Evil, a Dino Crisis or a Fatal Frame.
>pixel art bad
>photorealistic graphics good
ok AAA shill
What are these 5 indie games?
not him but I've been shitting on indie devs this entire thread. I like it when games actually have a set beginning, middle and end, so not roguelites/likes or endless card games
these are the ones I like:
>A Short Hike
>Katana Zero
>Shovel Knight
>Hollow Knight
>Superhot
>Inside
>Journey
>Guacamelee
>LISA
>Paper Beast
>Little Nightmares
Those are all shit are you fricking serious
tale as old as time, asked to list games, list the games, 'all shit'
You don't know the first thing about any of those games. Go play another fricking CoD clone, shit head.
>Katana Zero
>set end
it is LITERALLY unfinished
Why the hell would you continue to shit on indies in general when you like so many? Do you seriously like as many, if not more, AAA games released in the same last 10-ish years?
>Do you seriously like as many, if not more, AAA games released in the same last 10-ish years?
you tell me. I don't really give a shit whether a game is indie, AA or AAA as long as it's good; I've played almost all of the indie games people consider to be good and I don't like the vast majority of them
which 2 would you not consider indie?
The supermajority of the AAA games you like are 15+ years old and the majority of the indie games you like were made in the past 5-10 years. You have pivoted towards liking indie more consistently than you like AAA.
>I've played almost all of the indie games people consider to be good
I hate to do this, but can you name a few things you think the consensus agrees are good?
>You have pivoted towards liking indie more consistently than you like AAA.
you might be right, considering I'm looking forward to indie games more than anything else right now, pic related, almost all indie or small teams like Pentiment and Grounded
>Dragon's Dogma
>Metroid Prime 4
>Callisto Protocol
>Live a Live
>Evil West
>indie
Jesus Christ. Why are indie fans so dishonest?
why are you the way you are
I never said they were indie, moron, learn to fricking read
>almost all indie or small teams
Glad to have helped you figure this out. As many awful indie games as there are, there's so fricking many of them that there's still a lot to look forward to.
>there's so fricking many of them that there's still a lot to look forward to.
see
The argument has come full circle
Your point being? The "argument" is correct. .01% of like a billion games is still plenty.
>01% of like a billion games is still plenty.
far more than the number of good AAA games being churned out per year, wouldnt you say?
You're arguing against your own position now, id advise you to stop before you dig yourself deeper
Anon I came into this thread in support of indie games and I haven't changed once. Who the frick do you think I am?
speaking of indies, I've been meaning to make a giant indie infographic, so far I'm on 156 games
anything I'm missing? I'll sort it all into genres for the actual image, gonna take a while though
https://pastebin.com/mh4fw84v
this is from this guy btw, immediately caught my interest, proves gameplay is king
twitter.com/rootpilot
That's cool and looks fun, reminds me of bodyboarding in Prototype but better.
If only AAA devs had a shred of creativity and artistic talent. But who are we joking. Just give the budget to this guy instead
>creativity
Using enemies as skateboards is something Prototype (an AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA game!) did 13 years ago.
Mixing acrobatics with gunplay is something Vanquish (an AA game!) did 15 years ago.
Indie developers and indie fans are so dishonest, claiming that they invented entire gameplay genres and concepts.
>a game can't be creative if it isn't 100% original
Exactly.
Well, it can be creative when it does something unique with something that already exists, which that .webm hardly does.
>Exactly.
>Well, no
kek
>which that .webm hardly does.
yeah? what's it ripping off? I dont remember being able to shoot shotguns while body surfing in Prototype, or being able to bodysurf at all in Vanquish
or anything else for that matter, lmao.
Then why are you calling yourself "creative" when you aren't creating anything new?
>combining old abandoned concepts into an entirely unique core game is not unique
Hideo Kojima will teleport to my house and murder me if I create anything new
>why are you calling yourself "creative" when you aren't creating anything new?
>Well, it can be creative when it does something unique with something that already exists,
jesus fricking christ dude, please maintain a consistent narrative for atleast 10 minutes
>Neither are things AAAAAAAAAAA/AA/B/anyone is doing right now or has done in that time
and your problem is?
>Indie developers and indie fans are so dishonest, claiming that they invented entire gameplay
schizophrenia, apparently.
>NO YOU CAN'T USE THAT MECHANIC IT WAS USED IN ONE GAME 15 YEARS AGO
Card shark
why is the skybox that one image of the highway with like 10000 billboards?
SOUL
just at a glance, Gris is absolute shit carried by nice art
ZeroRanger, Besiege, Hackmud, and Gunpoint are some pretty solid indie games if you're just making a general "indie game" infographic.
>which 2 would you not consider indie?
Journey was originally published by Sony and Little Nightmares is published by Bandai Namco.
it has become harder to distinguish what is and isn't indie these days; is it determined by having a publisher? the size of the team? are kickstarted games indie? does the budget determine an indie? does it depend on how much creative control the devs have?
This is a good thing. It's the return of the AA market. Nature is healing.
Indie game = self-published
That's it.
so nothing from Devolver is indie?
Correct.
Indie is literally short for Independent, therefore being under a publisher technically revokes the "indie" label.
Also interesting to note, Given who created and owned Zenimax at the time, Skyrim is technically a self published game and therefore technically an indie game.
Granted no-one actually sees it like this and indie is more of a misnomer, like many things in modern society.
Eh, at this point indie is synonymous with 2D pixel metroidvania.
We're going to need a new term for independent videogames.
>indie is synonymous with 2D pixel metroidvania
How the frick is Spacechem a 2D pixel metroidvania?
>Eh, at this point indie is synonymous with 2D pixel metroidvania.
Lmao what? In whose mind but your own?
I thought the current meme was that all indie games are "quirky Earthbound clones"?
That one is true too.
>indie games are all 2D pixel metroidvania
>they're also all quirky Earthbound clones
>they're also all deck builder games
>they're also all 2D pixel roguelikes/roguelites
>they're also all "walking simulators"
>they're also all VNs
>they're also all Minecraft clones
Damn, indie games are a lot of things at once.
it's funny because there were some games at this year's not-E3 that actually tried to be all of these at once
the current meme is that all indie games are simultaneously quirky Earthbound clones, Metroidvanias, and deckbuilding roguelites
People say this is a meme, but there are a total of like 5 entries from the indie scene over the last few years.
that's too many as it is. only japan gave a frick about earthbound when it came out and now these homosexuals act like everyone does.
because everyone does.
your point?
They are all 2d pixel metroidvanias.
They are all quirky Earthbound clones.
They are all roguelike deckbuilders.
We can extend this list indefinitely it seems.
you realize how difficult it would be to discuss games with these definitions, right?
Hotline Miami would not be an indie game under your criteria, yet almost everyone would recognize it as one
yes, what's the problem?
indie is not a genre since it doesn't allow for any kind of categorization or comparison between games
You're right, but it makes me wonder. What would you say is the commonly accepted definition of indie today? I'm actually not sure. Is it about budget? Team size? Not having a well-known publisher? Is Cadence of Hyrule indie? Is Neon White indie? Is Codename STEAM indie? Is Loop Hero indie?
famous indie game Super Metroid
>What would you say is the commonly accepted definition of indie today?
those are the same questions I asked him already, but yeah indie is hard to define
I think it's a mixture of things, you can still be indie whilst having a publisher if you're a small team and retain creative control like Devolver, Annapurna and so forth
most people tend to understand what type of game you're talking about when you use the word indie, anyway; people know that indie means Hotline Miami, Stardew and Slay the Spire and not RDR2, God of War and AssCreed
Yeah, I think anyone can name some games that are obviously indie, and some that obviously aren't, but there's a gray area somewhere in between there that people aren't sure about.
>can only list "mainstream" indie games shilled everywhere
>at least 2 of these games are not even indie games
This is why indie games haters have no credibility. You keep spouting generalities about indie games despite only playing a tiny, tiny part of all indie games.
Why bother? you will claim that they're shit compared to muh 2D pixel roguelike card deck builder metroidvania.
>>t. AAAA wienersucker (because if you criticize indies somehow means that you're a EA Activision Bethesda garbage consumer)
>tranime
>t. AAAA wienersucker (because if you criticize indies somehow means that you're a EA Activision Bethesda garbage consumer)
Don't forget
>2deep4u sentimental message games
no one hates the games on the left though
If you think you are right, why lie? I don't get it.
isn't vampire survivors like $3?
yeah garbage like rogue legacy, dead cells, and hades that straight up lie about their genre for clout and charge x3 what they are worth are absolutely garbage
at least gungeon is half their price, and even its expensive for what it is
homie, Dead Cells is one of the best games ever made
>Dead Cells is one of the best games ever made
a roguelite cannot be the best anything besides a best roguelite
roguelite is pretty much the most gaming-intensive genre second only to run'n'gun
>Dead Cells
Motion Twin screwed over the Die2Nite fanbase by cancelling the Die2Nite Zero alpha and does not deserve your financial support for these gross consumer-unfriendly practices.
Am I a noob for being bad and using aspects? Some of the regular enemies just rip me apart.
>$20-60
I got that for "free" and I still hate them
>metal slug
>only 20 minutes of gameplay
go play combat school you little shit
let me guess you gave some dev your shit take and they told you gtfo and now you're crying here lmao
I always felt like there was a pretty big crowd of people who love indie games and recommend them, but I've never personally been able to get into a majority of them. I spend more time playing shit made by major companies. People b***h about big games being the same, but I feel this infinitely more with indie games.
>People b***h about big games being the same, but I feel this infinitely more with indie games.
>t. only plays big indie games shilled by Youtubers
i feel like there's a much higher percentage of indie games that are outright garbage compared to AAA games, but AAA games are kind of bland in general compared the best indie games you can find. Not really a super fair comparison, I know, but I generally try to avoid playing bad games as a rule anyway.
well yeah, because the barrier to entry for an indie game is astronomically lower than a AAA game
I'm tired of every non-AAA game being thrown in the poorly defined "indie" bag. No, Factorio or Frostpunk or Outer Wilds are not in the same category as pixel roguelite #213.
indie just means the developers made it themselves without a publisher
And yet people keep calling games published by Devolver/Annapurna, or even games published by big publishers like EA or Microsoft, indie games.
Devolver and Annapurna pick up games when they're finished or nearly finished, they don't fund development (most of the time). And they don't claim copyright on the games.
Of course they provide funding, that's one of the main reasons why "indie" games use publishers. (the other main reason being marketing)
>Why are indie hipsters incapable of taking criticism?
They are narcissistic, delusional hacks who lack the framework of a studio around them to continually critique their work, and also lack the introspection/honesty required to self critique and reach certain bars of quality.
When you're making a game as an indie, people around you will only heap you with praise, because your immediate social circle don't want to discourage you from going down the path you're on.
Ultimately, it takes a certain degree of vanity and narcissism to create something pretty sub par and be confident enough to ship it with your name attached, when you can compare it to so much of what's been made already and see how substandard your game really is if you had an objective eye.
this narcissism is also why these games have so much feature bloat; go check out some of the indie showcases from not-E3 this year
there are SO many fricking farming sims like Stardew Valley, but they also throw in dating sim aspects, JRPG fighting, cooking mini-games and all the rest of it, and none of it is good
the reason they do this is because it's their first game and they're convinced it's their magnum opus, and they also have nobody to tell them no
they could barely make a good Asteroids clone, let alone the game of their dreams, but they'll try it anyway and fail hard because they can't reign it in and swallow their pride
Could also just be plain greed combined with laziness, being indie means that the more people talking shit about it the less people are inclined to buy it which means less money for you and its lot easier to write something to dismiss shit than actually spend time fixing it.
I mean I'd feel pretty good about myself if I dev a game all the way to shipping. Im sure that shit takes time too
>give negative review to indie game
>the dev blocks you on twitter
I live for this feeling.
Hollow Knight sold more copies than any individual Castlevania game.
Shovel Knight sold more than any one Mega Man.
Stardew Valley sold more than than all of Harvest Moon + Rune Factory combined.
boomers cant fathom the fact that their classics have been surpassed by indie devs so they have to cope
Holy moron shit. What a terrible take. Name one? There aren't any....
Hollow Knight
>B-BUT-
cope lmao. Your favorite 90's metroid game doesn't even come close
Why is that you think? I mean, all those games are worse than the games that sold less.
ease of access, ease of word of mouth to spread, steam sales, multi-plat.
I'd argue the games are of a similar but different quality, which helps.
those are 3 of the best indie games out there, so that's not a huge problem for me
if every indie game was on the level of Hollow, Shovel or Stardew I'd never complain about vidya ever again
for every 1 Hollow Knight there's 1000 metroidvania games not even worth mentioning
take this shit for example; why the frick would I ever play this? it's as if there's a market for people who actually want to play D-tier games
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1674780/Lone_Fungus/
it's very positive, bro
nobody has the heart to leave a bad review
ask yourself this; will Lone Fungus be remembered and matter 20 years from now?
Hollow Knight will, this won't. there are too many people making bad games now, the market is flooded with low quality clones and shovelware since any moron can follow a GameMaker tutorial on youtube
Did you even play the game? What makes you think that it's a bad game?
I don't think Hollow Knight will be remembered in 20 years, no. And that's alright, because a game doesn't need to be a GOTY to be good.
So same as it always was? For every classic game from the 90s, there was tons of derivative crap people don't talk about today. To say nothing of the absolute endless amount of garbage that was made in the heydey of Flash and browser games.
Black person the market has always been saturated with garbage since the first crash of 1983. Not everything has to be the next masterpiece otherwise there's no such thing as a masterpiece.
Also clones aren't even an indie problem, it's an industry thing that has existed since forever and it's the reason why you get other great franchises and AAA games. Dragon's dogma was literally made because they wanted something to compete to skyrim. Every single arcade fighting game franchise existed because of copying. There's fricking fps releases every single year, battle royales etc.
This fricking board is filled with so much moronic zoomers who think these things they are experiencing right now are new things that existed because they saw it for the first time. Absolute dogshit board.
I never said it was a new phenomenon
see
you can't pretend like indies are saving the industry when they're just as guilty as AAA when it comes to chasing the money
>there are too many people making bad games now, the market is flooded with low quality clones and shovelware since any moron can follow a GameMaker tutorial on youtube
t. Literal fricking child that thinks steam was the entirety of video games
Don't even bother trying to deny it either. It's self evident, since you clearly don't remember the 10001 shareware video game packs of the 90s Never mind the literal reason for the video game crash of the 80s was entirely because of the copious amount of low quality video games being pushed to market.
>WHY ISN'T THIS PARTICULAR GAME NOT CATERING TO MY TASTES ME ME MEEEEEEEE
as if there werent hundreds of shitty arcade games that were clones/trying to follow popular trends
especially in the home computer market. a lot of those arcade clones were downright plagiarism.
>it's as if there's a market for people who actually want to play D-tier games
that's the beauty of indie games, you can find niches that AAA developers won't touch because investors would never approve a game that doesn't have a projected 80000000000% ROI.
>for every 1 Hollow Knight there's 1000 metroidvania games not even worth mentioning
And you don't have to play any of them if you don't want to. The only people who suffer because of this are indie devs who make zero sales because their games are in oversaturated subgenres.
Sold more therefore more gooder!
Yikes, my dude.
I said nothing of the sort. I stated facts and you got upset all on your own.
>but sold more!
So did Fifa. Your point?
Gaming audience weren't as big as they are today though
Yeah but both Knight games are top tier and surpass some of the games they're based on.
Those are all good game, but we're talking about the embarassing clone of a clone.
by this metric tetris is the GOAT
correct
Yes.
None of those games are like what you're misleadingly comparing them against.
It should be labeled faildevs
>Every time someone points out that indie games are shitty rehashes of older games, ugly, have garbage humor, or are just plain stupid / autistic
You mean just like AAA games?
>why can't you take criticism?
I can. What's your criticism?
>this is shit it's shit it's shit it's garbage it's shit it's shit you're shit this is shit in every way it's shit shit shit shit shit
Okay have you any suggestions for how to improve it
>no it's shit
Okay, your criticism was worthless
>why can't you take criticism?
Here is a legit criticism to indiedevs: Stop thinking Twitter is an advertising platform. You will never make money there and will just fall into a circlejerk with other indies.
why do you say things you know nothing about. you dont know anything about videogame advertisement, indie devs should use any means to get their game recognition. moronic Ganker gatekeeping wont pay rent, devs want people to buy and play their games and using twitter helps that
Unless you are able to find yourself trending the only attention you are going to attract is from other indies
Good call. Make sure to tell the people at the corner store about your game to get your word out while you are panhandling. Can't hurt, right?
>umm all your criticisms are that my game is shit, I can actually take criticism CHUD
here's criticism, stop destroying your game and career by going on twitter
>UMMM WHAT THE FRICK DID YOU FRICKING SAY ABOUT ME YOU LITTLE b***h???
The eternal thin skinned indie homosexual strikes again
you are making a caricature of the average indie game dev without knowing a single one. youre a moronic fricking homosexual who knows nothing and spouts random bullshit. perfect twitter user ironically. keep buying triple A garbage wow who know it was shit again
>Stop thinking Twitter is an advertising platform.
Kek moron, twitter is as much of an advertising platform as this website and both of them works
The bigger the ego, the thinner the skin.
>Why do people just dismiss me when I discuss something?
Ironic
>indies is one person
don't you have an ubisoft open world 'experience' to play instead of posting here?
tfw i just want to make a cool indie game but Ganker starts hating me
Then don't.
>tranime poster
>attention prostitute
>looking for affirmation
>will never make anything anyways
Iconic post I've seen hundreds of times.
Oh, the irony.
Cope.
You can make a cool indie game anon, if it's good Ganker will like it. But if it becomes popular then Ganker will hate it.
why isn't anyone making indie monster hunter clones goddamnit
Dauntless
The five gorillion existing MH titles sucking up players time
dauntless isn't indie by any mean
>muh generalizing strawmen
This is why nobody argues with you seriously.
Indie games are trash for troony come back to AAA if you're not cringe
AAA games are literally the definition of pozzed games.
Indie trash are the definition of shovelware grabage with zero creativity on top of zero budget plus troony pandering as a bonus
Yet the biggest game of last decade was made by 1 dude ripping off another dude so hard he hasnt been able to make anything since Microsoft bought it. The only real alternative to indie is japanese games, AAA is as worthless as a capeshit movie.
Go suck off a battle pass you moronic pozzed little shit.
>dude what if Mario but female and allegories for depression and/or gender dysphoria
>OMG INDIES SAVING VIDYA!! TAKE MY MONEY 10/10
indies are almost entirely just clones of SNES / PS1 games but gayer with worse art
whats the game on the right?
Little Samson on NES
Because you homosexuals are not criticizing specific games, you always say "indie games are shit" without saying what about them are shit or naming specific titles. You go out of your way to call not even an entire genre but a way to create games shit. Half of the time it is strawman like this one which noone sane is gonna argue with. Name some fricking games, moron, instead of generalizing,
if Momodora wasn't in there I'd think these were all fake
I love that collage because it's pretty much what
posted.
'indie' might as well be its own genre at this point, low effort 2D pixelshit
>Octopath
>Triangle Strategy
>indie
Is this supposed to be a bad thing?
Also, several of those aren't even indies.
What's the tactics game near the middle?
Triangle Strategy, it's great
Ah yes, the indie game known as Sonic.
>indie games bad because... they tend to use 2D graphics!
the absolute state of Ganker
2D is outdated and should stay dead.
sad
Why? It's a common art style that can look great and doesn't prevent games from being fun. Sorry your moronic child brain can't handle anything that's not one of the 3 AAA genre templates.
almost all of these games are fricking bangers
what are you on about?
now I want to know what all these games are
There are only two games that you can consider ripoffs on that image (Super Cyborg and Freedom Planet). Not a single one of them is a roguelike, not a single one of them features mental illness. That is exactly what I am talking about, you morons have no idea what are you talking about, yet still think that you "criticisms" are valid.
not really
I think this is the first time I've seen anybody on Ganker mention Assault Android Cactus. Fun game, haven't played it in a good while.
>Super Cloudbuilt
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASED
>>dude what if Mario but female and allegories for depression and/or gender dysphoria
Celeste?
just posting that here
Pozzed garbo
explain
is it about how the plot is about religion bad?
is it about the lesbian couple at the end?
because i liked the game outside of the story, from the soundtrack to the gameplay
You're the problem. You sound like someone who wants to be a critic and who thinks you should be listened to, regardless of what you're saying.
Remember the following, going forward.
>criticism and advice should not be given, unless asked for, whether implied or explicit
If you want to give criticism or advice and they haven't prompted for it, ask first.
>phrasing is important
Your criticism or advice should be centered around something you see as a flaw or could be worked on. Why that is, and what to do to change this. Your OP shows that you do not do this when offering critique or advice. This is the one you can work on.
>No one owes you the time to listen, or the effort to implement your suggesions
This one is important. Once you understand this, it will make you more selective of the advice or criticism you offer, and you will do this less. That will make your observations more worth while.
you're talking to a brick wall
why are you even putting any actual thought in your posts on this fricking website lmao
>incapable of taking criticism?
Like AAA companies, rofl
I would say there have been far more good indie games the last 10 years than AAA games. So I don't really understand the point of this thread.
>shitty rehash
>ugly
>garbage humor
>just plain stupid/autistic
These aren't criticisms, they're insults.
I sat through every single one of the indie presentations of this year's not-E3
the amount of times I heard 'metroidvania deckbuilding roguelike farming dating sim' made me want to fricking die
yeah where were the all the shitty 3rd person action games, open world trash, and brown fps games right?
"But AAAAAAA", "but traditional studio games" isn't an argument.
why are you pretending an inability to take criticism for rehashing old shit is unique to indie developers?
fps games haven't been brown since 2009
You're lucky you missed the indie-focused indie presentation at not-E3.
It was nothing but VNs and simulators that were nothing but political propaganda.
whatever you do, do not watch the "wholesome direct". Nearly every single game looked exactly the same
Is Elden Ring AAA?
Is Super Robot Wars 30 AAA?
Is Devil May Cry 5 AAA?
Is Nioh 2 AAA?
Is Code Vein AAA?
Those three are the games I played this year that I have no idea if they're AAA or not. Meanwhile the others (Deep Rock Galactic, Ed-0 Zombie Uprising, Killing Floor, Mary Skelter 2) are definitely AA or B games, made on a small budget.
yes
no (AA)
yes
yes
yes
FromSoft, Capcom, Team Ninja and Bandai are all big enough to be considered AAA, especially Capcom who've been around for decades now
I watched them all, pic related, it was a fricking nightmare. the frog thing was pretty funny though
>Is Super Robot Wars 30 AAA?
Nah, but still pretty based.
idk what super robot wars are and haven't played Code Vein
Elden Ring, DMC5, and Nioh 2 are clearly AAA to me. Something doesn't have to be a Ubisoft monogame to be AAA.
They keep sucking each other's dicks constantly so being critisized is unusual for them
before they're often lone developers who have quit their jobs or otherwise sacrificed their income streams/leveraged loans to fund their passion project. When people tell them it's shit and they shouldn't have bothered, they lash out as a coping mechanism. They don't want to face the reality that they fricked up their lives for nothing, and they're not the creative visionary they thought they were
*because they're
I genuinely enjoy indie games more than AAA games.
their politics come first
>why does everyone call me an idiot and tell me to frick off when I say something stupid on a topic I clearly don't know anything about?
It's truly a mystery.
it's not like AAA devs are good at taking criticism either
I don't get the yelling at the end
Rian Johson losing his fricking mind at rational arguments as for why his script was bad
>my favorite tags
deck building roguelike soulslike spiritual successor earthbound clone crafting open world survival farming sim
is that... a game not made a by a corporation i can bootlick??!?!?!
AAAAIIIIIIEEEE I'M GOING MAAAADDDD AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Indie dev here looking for opinions. Here's a bit of the game that I'm developing(inspired by Mario 64) with a small segment based on those special levels from Mario Sunshine. I wanted to know what would you add or what could be done to make it better as a whole.
This is not the place to post your game, friend. You're going to get some autistic stalker who thinks he's saving the industry by hassling you.
I just want to make a good game. What better place to find opinions that in a thread where indie games are criticized.
You're incapable of making a good game unless you found an inc., sell your studio to a publisher and work for someone else, sorry.
Better luck next time, gay.
I don't like the graphics, but I doubt you could fix that. The way the camera abruptly starts and stops moving is a bit jarring, consider a small acceleration and deceleration when you press and stop pressing the camera movement buttons.
I will fix the camera then.
Ganker is the last place where I would look for genuine, valid criticism.
99% of Ganker posters unironically despise videogames or aren't even interested on videogames, and only come here to use the board as blue /misc/ or blue /b/.
I'd say that maybe the camera movements need some acceleration rather than being so rigid. Maybe I'm explaining it like shit but I hope you get what I mean.
what's the deal with the stars?
if there's a reward for collecting them they need to be something difficult to obtain, not just lying on the floor where there's no challenge to pick them up
not sure what else to say but I think having an extra animation or two for the player would be nice, perhaps one that's going diagonally (which you could then flip horizontally to have it go the other direction)
The stars work simply as coins in the game. There will be another special item which the players will pick up through quests for example similar to shrines or moons in Mario games. Extra animations... that's a good idea, I will see what I can do.
Play the classics everybody agree.that are good and try to understand, BY PLAYING THEM, why they are good.
Pro-tip: steal the gameplay, making it yours.
Like what, Zelda? I've been studying Mario 3d games to base myself in them. I'm kind of stealing their gameplay while adding originality.
Keep the character in the center of the screen at all times. Change the light position so that players can know if a platform can be jumped on or if it's a wall.
>Almost all of the games from the golden age of gaming use 3D graphics or pseudo-3D, and the few ones that used pixel graphics used pixel graphics that were the peak of tech at the time they were released
>"3D graphics bad shitty 2D pixel graphics good"
I hate indie developers and games so much it's unreal.
>and the few ones that used pixel graphics used pixel graphics that were the peak of tech at the time they were released
not only that, but they were created by actual professional artists, the pixel artists of today are hobbyists off twitter
not everyone can afford to hire an pro artist, especially when making assets is such a large part of development. So if you had a good idea for a game but not the budget for an artist are you supposed to just bin it?
This. Chances are that if you can code you can't make graphics. In the end a programmer will make a game with shitty graphics and an artist would make a VN or comic instead. Then again you can make a good game with super simplistic graphics like Downwell.
Not my problem.
If indies want to compete against AAAAAAA and make people abandon AAAAAAA, AA and B, forever, they need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
It's repugnant how something like River City Girls looks vastly worse than even something like Strider, one of the very first games Capcom made for arcades back on the late 80's, but we're supposed to excuse it because "small developer please understand".
when has an indie developer EVER said they want to directly compete with and dethrone AAA games
>If indies want to compete against AAAAAAA and make people abandon AAAAAAA, AA and B, forever
Where the FRICK did you get the idea that this is what indies want? It's not a fricking one or the other situation! I can like an indie game for its unique gameplay ideas and like a AA game for its overall polish!
>Entire thread is pretty much "indies good non-indies bad, play indies!"
>"WHEN DID WE SAID THAT INDIES ARE INTENDED TO DESTROY AND REPLACE NON-INDIES???????"
Indie developers and fans are huge hypocrites.
>Entire thread is pretty much "indies good non-indies bad, play indies!"
Ganker is not one person. Most of the people saying this are falseflagging morons, simple as.
That aside, if you genuinely do like full-on AAA games, don't let me stop you. I just struggle to imagine how. They all play the exact fricking same. They're focus tested abominations.
>"If you criticize or dislike indies you're an AAAAA consumer!"
Every single time. And to be fair
>They all play the exact fricking same
The same can be said about indies.
>Every single time
Assuming you don't just suck AAAAA devs' dicks, the reasons you like AA or B grade developers over AAAAA are the reasons I like indie developers over AAAAA. I guarantee it.
>The same can be said about indies.
Absolutely not. Every indie game I truly love has gameplay that I can't get anywhere else.
wEll, I do play and enjoy some AAAAAAAAAAA games. None of them are made by Ubisoft, EA, Naughty Dog or Bethesda (in fact I've never played an Ubisoft or Naughty Dog game now that I think about it) but still are AAAAAAAAAAAAA.
I enjoy AA games, B games and some indies for the same reason I enjoy those AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA games: they're fun and challenging to play. You enjoy those indie games just because they aren't AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, AA or B, making our reasons to like those games completely different.
>Every indie game I truly love has gameplay that I can't get anywhere else.
I doubt it. For example I played Symphony of the Night and the DS Castlevanias; they have the gameplay present on 99.99% of indies.
>they're fun and challenging to play.
That hardly applies to any AAA+ games these days, but I guess I can't argue you, I haven't worked up the will to play AAA in years.
>You enjoy those indie games just because they aren't AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
No, I enjoy those indie games because they are fun and unique to play. I can't get Baba Is You or Last Call BBS from the AAA market.
>the gameplay present on 99.99% of indies.
Wow, the games I like must be a pretty fricking huge .01%!
>they're fun and challenging to play.
oh, you mean like roguelikes? a genre entirely of indies?
>you play indie games to stick it to corporations!
m8 you are mentally ill and im telling you this seriously, take your meds.
>The same can be said about indies.
No it can't.
>The same can be said about indies.
kek you're gonna try convince me that katana zero plays the same as shovel knight and dead cells?
oh, schizophrenia, of course
DO NOT REDEEM THE CARD SIR
DO NOT REDEEEEEM ITT
SIR
ARE YOU MAD
YOU b***h FRICKER
GOOD MORNING SIRS
not an argument
How is that incoherent? I don't like Fortnite, but it doesn't mean that I think an indie game will replace Fortnite. People like indie games because they're different compared to AAA games, not because they think it will/can replace them.
>people shill indies because they like indies
>people shitpost against stale AAA because they dont like it
>ONG THIS MEANS THAT INDIE DEVS WANT TO OVERTHROW ROCKSTAR AND YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE IF YOU DENY IT!
fricking moron. you made this rivalry up yourself.
>unique gameplay ideas
What unique gameplay ideas? Indie games just regurgitate something someone else already created and polished back during the Arcade / NES / SNES era.
Please show me the game with FTL's gameplay. Or Library of Ruina's. Or Creeper World 3's. Or Dicey Dungeons.
>If indies want to compete against AAAAAAA and make people abandon AAAAAAA, AA and B, forever, they need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
They dont. Nobody.makes indies with the goal.of outselling GTA or TLOU2 or some horseshit
you are just butthurt that some random nonames are making bank because your beloved oligarchs cant make good games to save their lives.
>if indie games want to compete against AAA games, they need to look and play exactly like AAA games
cringe moron
the best-selling video game of all time began as an indie game anyway, sounds like they have no problem competing with AAA games.
Lmao, does the fact that pic related or Umineko, or OPM or Undertale or Touhou get to be successful make you mad?
>"BRO YOU DON'T DESERVE TO MAKE A GAME IF YOU CAN'T HIRE A REAL ARTIST TO DO FULL 3D"
You are a homosexual.
It's true moron, no one wants to see your ugly trash on steam.
Why are indie games so popular then?
Tell that to Terraria.
>graphics literally lifted from SNES era final fantasy with amateur hour art filling the gaps
>sells enough to make it into the top ten of all fricking time
Imagine being so insecure that you can't even list 5 games that you like lmao
Indies and tendies are the people and they're both moronic
>Indies and tendies are the people
I feel like this has always applied to all of gaming forever. People will continue to only remember the good ones. The only difference between then and now is that you weren't able to tell John Romero that Daikatana looked like shit directly to him on twitter.
>John Romero that Daikatana looked like shit directly to him on twitter.
This
yes. people are saying how games used to be good, but bad games always existed. it's just that it was harder to get exposed to them, because there was no internet so only source of info was either from people irl or reviews.
with the spread of internet you would have people find shitty games and bash them.
I don't do vidya design, but do TTRPG design. I put my work through a playtest and review process. Some of the feedback I get is useful and I change things. Some of it is well meaning but incorrect, and so I shelve it. Some of it is hyperbolic and contains no information beyond the person's disdain.
Overall I find it is the the last group who is most likely to get angry that their 'criticism' isn't addressed.
Some people are unwilling to change their vision to appeal to randos, but some randos believe that anything they suggest should make it into the final product under the notion that they know best.
>rehashes
Oh Im sorry, isnt one of the bastions of indies the fact if you like a game made by a AAA studio that an indie will make a game like it with all the quality of life changes they AAA studio/publisher wont?
There was definitely a period of time where they were kinda dogshit in comparison to the games they imitated. but the whole scene got a lot better when J Blow & Phil left it.
Phil Fish made literally one game
ye. but him and others helped push the gimmicky marketing term in the spotlight with the journalist cabal.
>I hate all indie games
>Why?
>I am incapable of enjoying 2d games that aren't SSSSS+ tier visually
>Also I care way more about games being "innovative" and "unique" than I do about them actually being fun
>And I'll pretend that every single indie game is a trend-chasing 2d metroidvania rogue-like card-builder for this to make sense
Every time
I don't mind if a game has shit visuals and I only care about the game being fun to play, no matter if it is derivative as hell.
I still don't like indies.
Then you only dislike indies because you want to, on principle. There's no actual reason for it. Indies produce raw gameplay on par with AAA, AA, and B-grade devs easily. The only possible struggle is FINDING the things you like, not ensuring it exists at all.
>my face when indie developers and indie fans want me to drop Nioh 2 forever to play Succubus With Guns because "AAA bad indie good"
And yes, I did gave the Succubus With Guns demo a try.
Show me ten indie games that are on par with Devil May Cry while not having the same visual quality (outside Assault Spy, which is the only one that is similar and Mitsurugi Kamui Hikae). And don't even dare to post 2D games; they don't count because they aren't even remotely similar
>indie developers and indie fans want me to [HEADCANON]
the only thing I want you to do is kys, schizo
>indie developers and indie fans want me to drop Nioh 2 forever
who? Be specific.
>indies have to compete with AAA in every genre otherwise indies can't compete with AAA in any genre!
When did I say that indies are producing good gameplay in every genre? My intent was to say that in the genres where indie development is feasible, indie developers produce gameplay on par with much larger studios.
not to mention most indie games tend towards genres AAA developers don't bother with anymore
>tfw the only cinematic platformers indie devs are making are artsy minimal ones, not hardcore worldbuilding ones like Oddworld
AAAAAAAAAA
Indie devs largely do not have the effort for visually impressive games and good visuals are generally expected to pair with good writing.
>indie fans want me to drop Nioh 2 forever
I too like to make up people in my mind and argue with them.
>still trying to argue against a strawman despite already getting BTFO'd once
holy cringe
Remember Ganker, THIS is what actual schizophrenia looks like.
>smow me ten INDIE games that have the same visual quality as a game by capcom
lord above
Read the post. I'm willing to concede that only big companies can afford RE Engine-tier graphics, so I specified "while not having the same graphical quality", and cited games that definitively are very sterile on the visual department.
What kind of moronic strawman is this? Who are you even talking about?
How do I make good indie game? I'm solo developer btw.
The same way you make any good game, just make a game that people want to play. What kind of answer are you expecting here?
make the kind of game you want to play
Have a really good concept and just iterate until all the bad parts of your game have been polished away, get feedback if you're not good at evaluating your work yourself.
Listen to feedback but refuse to compromise on your vision. Hold these two opposed ideas at the same time and try and reconcile them. Meeting in the middle will produce something that is both yours but able to be enjoyed by others.
The only criticism people take notice of is a lack of sales.
So stop buying shit.
My current Steam wishlist is the following:
>Darktide
>Aliens: Dark Descent (this one isn't a 100% ensured purchase: I'm waiting for more gameplay footage to make up my mind)
>Evil West
>Soulstice
>Detained: Too Good for School
>Wo Long
>The Callisto Protocol
>Soul Hackers 2
>Wanted Dead
Only two of them are AAAAA and the rest are AA or B titles, no indies on sight.
People claiming that only extravagant bid budget AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA or indies exist and no other game exists are strawmanning.
>better keep showing what my schizophrenic reality looks like
The only schizophrenic reality is the one spouted by indie defenders: that only indies and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Hollywood celebrity employing, billion dollar budget games exist and there are no alternatives.
No it isn't. It's a licensed product for a multimillionaire media franchise.
>only indies and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Hollywood celebrity employing, billion dollar budget games exist and there are no alternatives.
cite some posts from this thread to that effect.
Pretty much every single post where someone complains or outright establish his dislike of indie games; the reply is always a "you must play AAA games then" one.
>"I hate indie games, they're all boring 2D pixelshit!"
>dude the only way you could possibly think that is if you're borderline a parody of moronic AAA dicksuckers who thinks that budget = quality
>"HA! SEE? YOU THINK ONLY INDIES AND AAA GAMES EXIST!"
>the reply is always a "you must play AAA games then"
>that only indies and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Hollywood celebrity employing, billion dollar budget games exist and there are no alternatives.
>these two mean the same
L M A O
we're dealing with an actual diagnosed schizophrenic here, folks!
Learn to read between the lines.
There is never the implication of an alternative existing, for those people is either Black or White.
for you and you only, more like
>read between the lines
so you're making shit up to make yourself feel better like an actual schizophrenic
. got it
a LOT of Warhammer games are independently published, Games Workshop gives the license to anyone who asks
you done jousting windmills and demolishing strawmen yet?
>Evil West
could either be stealth ludo or absolute shit, it looks really fun but frick knows
I'll giving it a try because pure action games, especially ones without Japanese aesthetics, are a very rare breed and I'm starving with it.
Let's hope it's good. It doesn't need to be Ninja Gaiden Black good, as long as it's solid and fun is enough for me.
Darktide is self-published and therefore an indie game
see this is why indies are hard to label these days
technically Baldur's Gate 3 is indie too, but it's bordering on AAA in terms of budget, team size and such
Darktide doesn't technically feel right being called indie even if it is by definition, so there's a grey area
Common usage always tends to distort from the original definition of the word slowly over time. Hyperbole and edge cases become the norm long enough for people to forget. It's not the first time it's happened and nor will it be the last.
My favourite examples of this are "Sophisticated" stemming from sophistry, carrying the entirely opposite meaning and "Chauvinist" being a synonym for misogynist, when in reality it's a synonym for stubborn.
>Detained: Too Good for School
That's an indie game.
No it isn't. It's a small developer team with a proper publisher.
And it isn't a 2D pixel metroidvania Eartbound clone roguelike card game.
there are plenty of indie beat-em-ups
>ugh there's so much card battlers / roguelikes / indie earthbound RPG's / hotline miami clones / platformers / etc etc
Notably these are all genres that were previously completely ignored by large developers and publishers
Rocket League, Kerbal, Hotline Miami, Superhot, Dead Cells, Hollow Knight, Night in the Woods, Nidhogg, Hat in Time, Doki Doki Literature Club, Rain World, Into the Breach, Obra Dinn, Katana Zero, Baba is You, Goose Game, Paradise Killer, Loop Hero, Signalis
How are these not all different from eachother?
That game was kickstarted and developed by literally three people
The publisher describes itself as an "indie games publisher".
Most of time indies are made by 3.5 Blacks with no particular talent or experience anywhere with a budget of a few mcdonalds meals. And most of the complaints are about those games looking like something made by 3.5 Blacks with no particular talent or experience anywhere with a budget of a few mcdonalds meals.
Do you expect a team of few hobbyists to make something that will rival all time classics in quality and production value? I guess not.
And the part about rehashes, can anyone here name the last game that brought something new into gaming that wasn't done before? Any budget, any genre or developer.
Baba Is You
>Most of time indies are BLAH BLAH BLAH IM TALKING OUT OF MY ASS AND I KNOW NOTHING
>Do you expect a team of few hobbyists to make something that will rival all time classics in quality and production value?
Well, given how they're competing on the same medium against those titles, yeah. I expect it.
Them being able to deliver is a completely different thing.
>Well, given how they're competing on the same medium against those titles, yeah. I expect it.
Absolute fricking schizophrenia.
This is like being angry as arthouse & indie films for not having the same CGI as marvel.
Arthouse and indie films are competing on their own genre and are never intended to replace "action figure movies" (the nickname a friend gave to Marvel movies).
Meanwhile indie games intend to replace non-indie games, especially AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, and directly compete against them.
>Meanwhile indie games intend to replace non-indie games, especially AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, and directly compete against them.
In who's world but your own?
>still replying to the "muh AAAAAAAAAAAA" poster after so many obvious bait posts
>Meanwhile indie games intend to replace non-indie games, especially AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, and directly compete against them.
says who?
>Meanwhile indie games intend to replace non-indie games, especially AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, and directly compete against them.
>indie games intend to replace non-indie games
>Meanwhile indie games intend to replace non-indie games
Are you feeling threatened?
Are you the real victim?
I think I've found your problem, it's that you're moronic.
>"action figure movies" (the nickname a friend gave to Marvel movies).
Your friend is moronic. You could just call them Marvel movies, capeshit, or superhero movies.
that doesn't cover other big blockbuster excrement like Jurassic World
If that's what you're using the term to describe then use a better term, because 'action figure movies' implies much more specificity.
>can anyone here name the last game that brought something new into gaming that wasn't done before?
Library of Ruina(gameplay), Sakuna of rice and ruin(attention to detail/realism), Cuphead(artstyle/graphics), and Isaac pretty much birthed the roguelike genre
>Library of Ruina(gameplay)
It's a card battler, what are you on about? Are you going to go on about each of your nuggets having their own tiny deck? That's just a small variation on a pretty well established genre.
He's probably talking about clashing. I can't name a single game that does anything even remotely similar.
>That's just a small variation on a pretty well established genre.
*that wasnt done before
that bit is important, you know
Except cart battlers where each character has their own deck wasn't first done by LoR. The only thing LoR really does different is reducing the deck size to only 9 cards + abo cards.
>The only thing LoR really does different is reducing the deck size to only 9 cards + abo cards.
and how those cards themselves are played
again, that variation hasnt been done before, which is the point.
Code Vein introduces on-the-fly class changes and a combat centered around a bunch of active skills which are "reloaded" by filling a meter not unlike fighting games.
Nioh introduces a stance system where eveyr stance has different properties, Diablo loot and the heavy character customizacion it implies, an individual level structure and active skills
Both games are despised and mocked as "shitty Souls clones" even when they introduced new mechanics to the genre and do some things different from the series they're imitating.
Adding new mechanics or ideas to an established genre doesn't make a game "creative" or "unique"
>Code Vein
>Nioh
What the frick do either of them have to do with a card battler, you fricking idiot?
>Both games are despised and mocked as "shitty Souls clones" even when they introduced new mechanics to the genre and do some things different from the series they're imitating.
Oh, its just you and your schizophrenic victim complex acting up again. Nevermind.
Like, I love Library of Ruina, but I don't consider it particularly mechanically innovative. The gameplay is good, but the places LoR really shines is in its characters, story, and music. The Reverberation Ensemble are the best cast of villains I've seen in a decade+.
Are you kidding me? I can't think of one other game with a system like clashing. Not another cardbattler, much less an RPG where I'd EXPECT such a concept to have emerged from.
>Sakuna of rice and ruin(attention to detail/realism)
>Something that Vanillaware did a decade before and it's their calling card (in fact Sakura is inspired by Muramasa)
>BoI invented roguelikes, not Rogue
Fricking indie developers, man. Claiming that they invented the wheel
But Rogue is an indie game.
Muramasa had such autistically detailed farming that the Japanese government itself took notice?
pretty sure anon meant the rice farming for Sakuna
Basically all the new genres of the past decades originated from indies or mods. MOBAs, battle royales, survival games, roguelites.
this, no company anywhere is going to invest any significant amount of money in a project that isn't already popular. it's the same reason as why we've had like 30 halo games, 100 bing bing wahoos, 47 carl on dutys, and why we're getting so many remakes these days.
>carl on duty
I'd say BoI cause at that time, it was a new thing long before the genre of roguelite were appropriated
Spelunky pioneered the concept of using roguelike mechanics in non-roguelike games, it was Edmund McMillen's main inspiration for Isaac (aside from Zelda of course)
>Do you expect a team of few hobbyists to make something that will rival all time classics in quality and production value?
Also Minecraft
The answer is simple and nobody here has mentioned it. Coding as a lone developer is grueling work and takes up a frick ton of time.
It's like spending hundreds of hours painting as a beginner, and when asking for criticism, everyone gets upset you didn't but buy the expensive paint other rich artists use, or even more upset that you don't have the talent that an entire team of commissioned artists have.
So they naturally start resenting the gaming community because they both lack the awareness of what a real indie project is, as well them turning into very poor yelp critiques.
As the often made
>LE PIXLE BAD
Sure, but you do comprehend how expensive it is to make high end graphics? Where even middleware devs have trouble affording, how do you expect an indie dev to have them?
>They should make it themselves
This once again falls on the argument of being upset at a lone dev for not being able every single asset and code in his game like a AAA corporation can.
I also don't like the 2d aesthetic, or the weird textureless 3d words indie devs chose. But I can't really fault them because they're working on miniscule budgets.
you're underage
plenty of high quality indie games out there but they released before you were born
the new wave of indie devs are lazy and only want the fame and fortune without the effort
Hollow Knight's not that old
Indie games are 90% shit and the devs are almost always egomaniacs trying to manufacture a cult-like following. Don't waste your time
10% of a billion games is still 100 million games.
Obviously, yes, 90% of AAA games are shit too. 90% of most things are shit. I don't think anybody is saying "every indie is good".
nobody owes you anything
>Why are indie hipsters incapable of taking criticism?
Are you the victim here anon?
Are you unhappy that people get to make games and don't really care to listen to what you have to say?
Good morning, anon. Here is a heap of 1,000 letters telling you you're lower than faeces or threatening to burn you alive. Same as you received yesterday, and the same as you will receive tomorrow.
Who is OP's post even directed at, which fricking indie devs
Does he think he's arguing with Phil Fish in 2014
I'm bored so is there some new good Kickstarter? I want something to put money, so I can complain later.
>is there some new good Kickstarter?
BatBoy looks really cool and its way better than shovel knight.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/xplusgames/bat-boy/
Bruh post the fricking Demo
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1709350/Bat_Boy/
>2D pixel metroidvania
Ay Dios mio
And you people call me a shitposter when I tell you that 99% of indie games are the same.
>And you people call me a shitposter when I tell you that 99% of indie games are the same.
metroidvania?
>ONE indie game looks vaguely like part of the stereotype I'm pushing
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'M GOING INSANE HELP ME TODD HOWARD
It's not just one game this one time.
Every single time Ganker shils a new indie game, it's a fricking 2D pixel metroidvania.
I didn't know Outer Wilds was a 2D pixel metroidvania
It is a shit game though and really that's what counts in the end.
you're a shit game
I didn't know Lobotomy Corporation was a 2D pixel metroidvania
That game isn't even a Metroidvania. And there have been dozens of indie games named in this post that don't meet your criteria.
>2D pixel metroidvania
That shit has a pretty good rate of actually being worthwhile to play. Meanwhile there is the roguelite deckbuilder genre that only ever got one or two good rehash.
Believe me cause Vampire Survivor-like is going to be next
>there is the roguelite deckbuilder genre that only ever got one or two good rehash
there are alot of good ones
>Believe me cause Vampire Survivor-like is going to be next
It's already here, the concept is so simple that you can knock it out in a week or two.
Holocure and 20 Minutes Till Dawn being two I can think of off the top of my head.
But I don't have any money.
I just play the demo, this shit is great fun, is this Gankercore?
thanks for the recommendation bruh.
>better than a 7 year old game
>literally just Megaman with a sports theme
fricking have a nice day tourist
I mean there's a difference between being inspired and a straight rehash.
For example, Silent Hill was inspired by multiple sources, one being the Jacob's Ladder film. On the other hand, Lamentum was inspired by Silent Hill. The difference between both is that Silent Hill managed to be its own thing because it borrows certain elements and plays around with them, while Lamentum basically borrows almost everything from Silent Hill, from plot to character names but in pixel art.
Another example would be Earthbound and Undertale. While the later is clearly influenced by Earthbound, it manages to be its own thing because it mostly borrows the aesthetics but gives its own twist.
>open-world ps1-horror turn-based puzzle strategy metroidvania soulslike roguelike with crafting
>insult/criticize someone's hard work
>expect them to simply agree with you
Are you some kind of a moron, OP?
Hard work isn't worth jack shit if the result isn't good.
I agree with you, but people will still defend their shitty work because it's THEIR shitty work. If you criticize someone, they will become defensive until they can decide whether you are right or not. You aren't some God with infallible wisdom-- nobody has an obligation to take your criticism at face value.
Not really disagreeing, but imagine you've spent countless nights and weekends, maybe even putting your life on hold for a year or more, doing your very best to create something, only for some bitter people in the comments to erase your entire sacrifice in 3 seconds with throwaway "Wow, this is utter garbage." (And it's never presented as an opinion either, always as some irrefutable objective fact.)
That shit's not pleasant, but people who never create or sacrifice anything, who only consume and complain, can't comprehend.
Not him, but I posted something similar to what he said so I'll bite.
While you are right about consuming complaining, and comprehension, the issue comes from a lot of indie devs refusing to take even valid criticism into account. Add on top of that the fact that you can't expect the average consumer to know what goes into the game making process. Because the general public is generally clueless about how things are created, expecting them to give a nuanced response is moronic to begin with.
People have to realize that they are going to frick up while making the game at some point. And that frick up will come with criticism from the consumer who only has the "finished" product to draw from. Developers have to use that criticism to become better, not throw it back into the faces of the rightfully ignorant public.
The developer isn't perfect, the consumer isn't perfect, no one is perfect. Once people can come to grips with this basic fact of life, shut like this will stop happening.
>the issue comes from a lot of indie devs refusing to take even valid criticism into account.
Where are people getting this from? I feel like outside of some egregious examples like DJ Phil Fish, most indie devs are way more open to community feedback than AAA devs. The only difference is big devs have a PR team that will hold them back from saying "frick off" on Twitter and instead they'll give a canned response like "We're looking at the possibilities for this in the future"
>a lot of indie devs refusing to take even valid criticism into account
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question
>The developer isn't perfect, the consumer isn't perfect, no one is perfect.
>Once people can come to grips with this basic fact of life, shut like this will stop happening.
It's actually pretty crazy how hard this is for people to accept, let alone realize themselves.
Criticism is fine, but people often mistake shitflinging and ad hominem attacks for criticism. I am more in the Table Top RPG community than Video Games when it comes to development. When I release playtests to get feedback I get probably 4 pieces of mixed personal attacks, incoherent gibberish, and out of left field demands for every piece of legitimate criticism.
It reached the point I stopped opening play tests to the pubic because the amount of work I did to filter through the feedback wasn't worth the few nuggets of useful critique. I now only do internal playtests because I know other developers will both be civil and give actual thought out analysis.
Good post.
Unfortunately when it comes to being a dev for anything that young people will enjoy, I imagine that you are opening yourself to a ton of nonsense from angry, hormonal teenagers who just want to watch the world burn. That just comes with the territory.
I'd never thought about how much work it is to sift through tons of insane nonsense in the hopes of finding some legitimately useful criticism. That's a pretty ironic dilemma.
>Unfortunately when it comes to being a dev for anything that young people will enjoy, I imagine that you are opening yourself to a ton of nonsense from angry, hormonal teenagers who just want to watch the world burn. That just comes with the territory.
It's not teenagers that are the issue. Teenagers generally have neither the time nor attention span to become truly vindictive. When I released stuff to the public the worst people were socially isolated adult men.
Often this is because what ever genre you are developing for, in my case Hex Crawl City Building TTRPGs, are a genre they associate with their childhood or teenage years. They associate it with a time before their lives became miserable or complicated, and thus as their lives progressed and soured they now associate the genre with somehow decaying. They then see people developing in that genre as the agents of that decay and thus the destruction of their own lives. Because they pull a direct through line from a genre (or particular game) or their own misery they will attack anyone associated with it. I have had people grow obsessed because I was unwilling to bend to absolutely pants on heads moronic criticism and suggestions. They believe that if I only listened the genre would improve, and thus their lives would do so as well. They take me not listening as me ACTIVELY harming them and so devote themselves to trying to harm me back.
You see this a lot on Ganker with people tying the health of particular game communities or genres to their own personal well being.
>You see this a lot on Ganker with people tying the health of particular game communities or genres to their own personal well being.
Fricking hell, I don't need this right now.
>people tying the health of particular game communities or genres to their own personal well being
Holy shit
It really makes perfect sense.
>You see this a lot on Ganker with people tying the health of particular game communities or genres to their own personal well being.
That... actually makes a lot of sense. I hope those crazy fricks don't end up discouraging you, anon. Your knowledge and experience with this particular subject is really intriguing, I appreciate you taking the time to post it. I have glamorous dreams of becoming an indie dev someday and so getting to know what horrors await me is very useful.
>You see this a lot on Ganker with people tying the health of particular game communities or genres to their own personal well being.
this is the final post
>You see this a lot on Ganker with people tying the health of particular game communities or genres to their own personal well being.
This explains a lot of insane fricks on Ganker.
>They take me not listening as me ACTIVELY harming them and so devote themselves to trying to harm me back.
Literally seen threads where this happened now that I look back at them in this light.
>This explains a lot of insane fricks on Ganker
What explains Ganker is Poe's law and Birds of a feather.
People taking the piss out of some absurd position, so accurately that it draws in the actual adherents of said position or literal autistic homosexuals who can't tell it's a joke; like was with the case of bronies.
>
My biggest fear is projecting my weird bullshit unto the world and causing others grief.
For the first time in my life I feel as though I haven't been deteriorating since age 12 because I still enjoy my favorite genres.
You've got your head screwed on right, I hope you make it far Anon E. Moose
I dont understand why people are humoring a schizo OP for 500 posts.
For me, it's because I want to bully schizo OP into realizing the error of his ways, not unlike what he himself attempts to do with indie devs.
It's a vicious cycle.
we throw schizo around as a buzzword. Actually schizo posters like OP arent all that common
depends on what kind of threads you frequent
It's a good loose framework to shitpost around, the essence of a good Ganker thread in general.
Why are most of the people that hate indie games just brand loyalist
it is really that hard to accept that hollow knight is superior that anything metroid-castlevania produced in 2 decades, same with shovel knight and megaman
it is impossible to grasp that your favorite franchise might not be as good as you remember it being
The shitty fanbase is why I decided to never play Hollow Knight.
I've only played a few Castlevanias and I've never played a Metroid game so it isn't "brand loyalty". I just refuse to kneel to such a garbage fanbase.
The best games (indie or not) are all made by solo developers or tiny teams that refused to budge from their ideal video game. No game made by a team coordinating with a community that is possibly padded with morons, apologists, casuals, or gays will ever become a truly good game, and can only become an addictive dopamine treadmill. Everyone who wants a focus-tested community-built video game is a broken individual.
A small team that refuses to budge can make a shitty game sometimes, but a large team that polls the audience will never make a good game.
>A small team that refuses to budge can make a shitty game sometimes
>sometimes
Often, shitty games are literally the norm. Greatness only comes around every so often. The second part of the quote is dead on though.
The worst thing about this thread is that I didn't even got a good indie recommendation.
play Souldiers
>2D pixel metroidvania
>Steam score: MIXED. Steam users have such low standards that only absolutely broken games get a "mixed" score
No thanks.
it got low scores because it was fricking hard
>No thanks.
is a 10/10 game
>pirate Souldiers, the original release
fix'd
They made a great game, then nerfed it to hell when the children cried it was too hard.
it was honestly a bit too bullshit as anything other than Scout, and even Scout was pushing it. Wizard was just a straight up bad pick.
Finished the game on hard as Wizard on my first playthough. Relies more on blocking and dashing rather than straight attacking to do damage.
Average Gankertard
>indie games are terrible for the industry
>aaa games are terrible for the industry
>the only good game is the one i imagined in my head but have zero talent or ability to make
>>the only good game is the one i imagined in my head but have zero talent or ability to make
What's your point, that it takes effort? Well, no fricking shit sherlock-- talent alone doesn't make things happen. Either start grinding or shut the frick up.
I don't give a frick about AAA games anymore. Haven't seen a fricking game in years that appeals to me even in the sleightest. That said, don't think you indiegays get my love, I pirate all your shit and only occasionally buy games. Eat a dick.
cool story, brah. nobody asked.
Suck my big pirate dick you queer
attentionprostitutes usually dont have dicks tho
>chimes in for no reason
based shitposter, enjoy this ill-gotten (You)
I find funny how publishers were fine looking the other way with PC piracy once PC gaming became popular again, but suddenly pirates decided that getting games for free isn't good enough and EVERYONE must pirate, so they started spending more time trying to convert paying customers into pirates than actually playing the games they pirate.
So as a counteraction, the age of Denuvo started.
it's probably less that and more AAA publishers getting back into PC more seriously instead of treating it as an afterthought for years. The first Denuvo game was FIFA 15, after all.
*Age of pozzed games getting more pozzed shit started, good fricking job, applause all around for the all powerful midwits!
need new indie kino Ganker reply your best indie picks
what genre?
Preferably action or something I can play with a controller if not.
Check out The Caligula effect 2
Some anon posted about this game about a year ago and I decided to check it out and really fricking loved it.
It's still in early access, but I'm def looking forward to official release. Shit's gonna be cash.
Seen this before, looks super interesting, I'm down to wait for 1.0 though since I heard it being unfinished hurts the experience at the moment.
Yeah, IMO it does. Really gives you the blueballs for content. I paid 20 bucks for it because I played the demo and was under the impression the full version was being released on Steam last August, not just the kickstarter, so my balls were blued pretty hard.
It's still good shit, but yeah-- BEWARE!!
who's lila
Aren't they? I dunno dude aside from a couple of jackasses in the industry most indies usually take criticism pretty well and usually change their games around what suggestions they can reasonably take on board. The thing with indies is that they're limited in time and money most of the time so they can only take on the most important stuff.
Recommend me some good indies. I unironically love metroidvanias and roguelites. Already played the big ones
>shamiko
cute
Expand, Critter Crunch, Tappingo, Ophidia, Dissmbler, Fuga: Melodies of Steel, Music Racer, Linelight
I'll check them out, thank you
I'm sick of games by publishers big or small getting written off as "AAA trash". Publishers, even large ones, don't exclusively put out AAA games. Painting every AAA game as trash is fricking stupid. And it ignores the whole load of non-AAA games that are put out and not by indies.
Facts: Indie gaming pricing has bloated right alongside all other games. Indies have Day 1 DLC/Season Passes/Battle Passes/etc. Indies have Day 1 patches to make their busted ass games passable until further updating is finished. Indies explot the hell out of Early Access. Indies are industry trendchasers. Just a couple years back you would be hardpressed to name a handful of indie deckbuilders. Now there's five gorillion of them.
>Painting every AAA game as trash is fricking stupid
got an example to prove your point?
NTA but Elden Ring, Nioh 2 Resident Evil 2 Remake and Devil May Cry V are some of the best games I've played, and all of them are recent AAA titles.
I'd call Nioh 2 more AA
>published by Koei Tecmo and developed by Team Ninja
>AA
Wut
You really think Koei of all publishers have the money or interest to fund something truly AAA? These are the fricks who can't even manage 50% off sales for their decade old games.
>You really think Koei of all publishers have the money or interest to fund something truly AAA?
Well, they funded the Nioh series.
Koei Is a huge company in Japan and employs almost 2000 people outside of its subsidiaries and developer arm
Anon, they're worth over 300 million usd and in 2020-2021 were trading higher than Capcom and Square. Don't mistake incompetence and israelitery for being "small"
None of that means they're feeding that money back into true AAA games. Look at DOA6 as a good example. Much like Yakuza, Nioh is AA or more likely, just A.
You're fricking drunk my dude, go to bed. Those are all aaa games published in multiple languages and released simultaneously on multiple continents in brick and Mortar stores. You've built this weird enshrined vision of a aaa game I can only assume adheres to ubisoft or ea shit
No game that has the budget and scope Nioh or Yakuza have (they don't look like it, but when you get deep into them you find they're massive in many ways) and hires celebrities to "act" on the game can be considered "AA" or just "A".
I think you're trying to discredit Nioh 2 as an AAA game because it hurts your "all AAA games are shit" narrative.
why specifically target Nioh 2 in that case and not the other three games?
Because the other games are low-hanging fruit.
They were games with a polarizing reception among their respective series' hardcore fanbase and Ganker as a whole dislikes them, so it's easier to call them "bad games" and use them as an example of "all AAA games are shit".
Meanwhile Nioh 2 is a game that was well received by everyone who liked it, even the fans of the first game, so it's harder to discredit it. The easiest way is to claim that it isn't an AAA game.
>Ganker as a whole dislikes them
oh I see, you're a moron
Nioh 2 is a high budget game published by one of the biggest Japanese gaming companies, has active multiplayer and uses Japanese actors and celebrities for facial capture and as virtual actors (that's the reason why Okatsu didn't appear).
It's as AAA as it gets.
>All of that garbage.
>"best games I've played"
This is the brain of an indie hater, a brain fried due to consooming big budget trash
I really like this recent gen of cheaper non artsy indie games. Vampire Survivors and its cloned are all 3-5 Dollars each and I get a couple hours of entertainment out of them.
Vampire Survivors
Project Lazarus
Necrosmith
20 minutes till dawn
Spirit Hunters
Nomad Survivor
Brotato
Peglin
Boneraiser Minions
Bounty of One
Nova Drift
Single A games, better than AA or AAA
Nova Drift is older than Vampire Survivors
Because you have to put ungodly amounts of time and effort into making a decent indie game. Most of the time you can't just slap shit together and it works/becomes popular.
The issue is that it seems like most people can't seem to separate themselves from their work. You call their work shit, you are calling them shit. Add on top of that the coddling and unnecessary amounts of praise people get as children and suddenly you end up in the world we live in now where most people can't seem to take much criticism at all. I have to actively beg my coworkers to not be kissasses and give honest feedback.
I'm actually the nicest person you will ever meet but I can go 0-100 to a twisted frickign psychopath in seconds.
Your angle or your devil!
>Ganker is one of the places on the internet that exemplifies this most acutely, and it most often comes with social & economic disenfranchisement
That's an outsiders perception of Ganker and someone who has swallowed the bait hook, line and sinker.
>it's all just bait
I really wish it was anon. There was a time that this was true, but playing the fool made the fools think they were in good company.
Anon, you're too smart for Ganker.
>enlightened anon
>also a gamedev
REJOICE, homosexual NAYSAYERS OF Ganker, FOR THERE IS ONE AMONG US WHO DESERVES THE TITLE OF CHAMPION.
UNLESS HIS GAME ENDS UP BEING SHIT IN WHICH CASE LOL GG.
Are you trying to imply there are vindictive social outcasts on Ganker?
Well yes, the size Ganker has become; it's is that of a small nation or megacity. There's literally all types of people posting here these days.
What was true and currently remains true is that the majority of people using Ganker are "normies" who you would not be able to pick if you saw them out in the street.
I have to agree with
on this one. Social isolation is one hell of a drug.
>psssh we're all just pretending
ohhhhh no no no no he isn't a degenerate outcast with a victim complex for real aehhhhhhhhHAAAAAA HAHA OHHH LOOK AT THE TOP OF HIS HEAD
This explains why Ganker sticks to console wars so hard.
Giving a derisive nickname to something is always linked to deep political and social beliefs (see: "ivans", "Black folk") so I always found weird that Ganker would give similar names to the "opposing" console fans ("tendies", "snoys") and use said names with the same aggressive passion.
The truth is, they actually see those consoles as their personal identity just like other people saw their race and political beliefs.