One thing I learned from all this FFXVI shitposting is that FFXIV doesn't actually draw in that much compared to their other publishing ventures. Some anon keeps dumping their sales numbers in other threads, and online revenue isn't that much.
When will you stop pretending ff14 is good? I got scammed by you fricks, the game was a huge waste of time. The story bever got good, the global cooldown + latency never felt right.
>WoW
AHAHAHAHAHAHA >ESO
AHAHAHAHAHAHA >SWTOR
maybe if you're a really huge star wars fan >GW2
no >Runescape
macroing simulator
and i don't think ff14 is that much better than any of these, a polished turd is still a turd.
real mmos don't exist anymore because le hecking gaymurz have GROWN UP! WE DON'T HAVE TIME BRO WE JUST DON'T HAVE TIME! I NEED TO PAY AND GET BOOSTED TO ENDGAME!
the average "gamer" has gotten used to this moronic fricking cycle of themepark on-rails levelling > RAID RAID RAID RAID PARSE PARSE PARSE DILATE DILATE DILATE PAY TO BOOST 5 CHARACTERS TO MAX LEVEL that was propagated by WoW in the first place.
prime example is the moronic avatargay in this thread.
>1 million player, barely 10% of peak wow >massive brand behind it >most people just sit in a city and shit up the chat 24/7 because the game has no progression
you gays are delusional. if i wanted shit like that i would play twitter like so many braindead gays do.
Nobody has time to spend the kind of time a classic MMO required anymore. As a result, we have all these ultra dumbed down weird abominations that are pretty much on life support. I have no clue how the genre hasn't completely died yet.
>Nobody has time to spend the kind of time a classic MMO required anymore
Factually wrong - with lots of jobs going for work-from-home methodology, people have been gaining a couple hours of free time that would've been otherwise used in commuting to work. So, people have more time than before but aren't spending on MMOs.
>inb4: what else are they spending it on then?
well i have no fricking idea Black person
Unironically too much optimization of the game system. You no longer need to walk the land and party up with whoever you find there to farm mobs or dungeons, it's all automatic group finders / solo quests give more XP than mindlessly farming mobs.
>Make a game based around the idea that you'd be playing hundreds or thousands of other people >Make grouping completely optional and allow solo gameplay
morons are making them, that's why.
>too much qol, listening to lazy people that want more and more qol each time >killing pvp >discord >catering to the masses >passion is gone and it's only about making more and more money
I feel like people don't have enough free time to actually play them anymore. Not an MMO but if im going to do a grinding game it has to be something like Destiny or Diablo where I can jump in, do meaningful progress in an hour and jump off.
WoW hasn't kept up. An expansion where you just do dungeons and have smaller, mini raids would be successful. This time gating, fifty currencies, hour long dungeons and five hour long raids is just a luxury no one can afford.
MMOs are supposed to be a social experience but they no longer are, for a few reasons. >people have been trained not to communicate at all in games because you run the risk of getting b& if you offend some thin-skinned homosexual, even if you don't say or do anything offensive at all >the games removed any reason to talk to other players by going way too hard on QOL and making everything as convenient as possible (used to have to find people on your server to do dungeons together, now you just join a queue and get grouped with people from various servers who might as well be bots since you'll never see any of them again) >everyone just communicates on Discord instead of in-game
have been trained not to communicate at all in games because you run the risk of getting b& if you offend some thin-skinned homosexual, even if you don't say or do anything offensive at all
It's not the same when you can't call your tank a useless homosexual for pulling too much, your healer a worthless sissy for focusing heals on the DPS or the single target DPS a moronic brainlet because he was focusing on adds and not the main boss.
>you run the risk of getting b& if you offend some thin-skinned homosexual, even if you don't say or do anything offensive at all
The "thin-skinned homosexual" is usually a grifter or mean girl that can exploit the report system. I don't remember the last time meeting someone who was unironically thin-skinned, they would cry crocodile tears before talking in "private" on how they owned said homosexual.
Perfect multiplayer reporting system >you report player >it automatically blocks that player for you and you for them >if you reported them for profanity or slurs it re-enables your profanity filter (you can still disable it again, but it's a reminder that you are consenting to see bad words if you turn off the filter you fricking moron) >no further action
>NOOOOOOOOOOO I'M OFFENDED BY WORDS ON A SCREEN I CAN EASILY AVOID WITH BLOCKS AND FILTERS, SAVE ME TERMS OF SERVICE!
The internet was much better before homosexuals like (You) had access to it
>used to have to find people on your server to do dungeons together
spamming "looking for tank" for 30 minutes nonstop and having to cancel the entire run because your healer left for any reason was never, fricking ever, fun
Worsening online communities which leads to lower quality interactions followed by casualization in an attempt to draw more players. Usually the casualization works for a limited time, like how WoW or FF14 had player peaks at their most casual points in history, but its always a straight line downward from there.
Filtered by the inability to socialize. Should have joined a guild or had people you played with consistently. MMO design pandering to casual players who can't socialize is what killed them. Those who got filtered will never like MMOs so there was no reason to pander to people like you.
>MMO design pandering to casual players who can't socialize is what killed them. Those who got filtered will never like MMOs
This exactly.
Modern mmos are designed for people that hate mmos, it's why they're virtually single player games now.
this is actually what is killing MMO's (and online multiplayer games (and the internet)).
im playing XIV and having an absolute blast and decided that i want to raid, and the absolute DEMAND for me to join these Discord cliques is maddening. when I played WoW in the 2000's I didn't have to deal with this shit and interacting with randos was way WAY more fun.
doesn't help that said Discord is also unironically used to create little communities from within the game to ward off other players intentionally either because they can't ban you ingame when you're not even offending anyone.
the draw of mmorpgs was never the ABILITY to communicate with people. people could do and were doing that way before mmorpgs with online chatrooms. mmorpgs also started dying way before discord was even a thing so stop blaming discord lol. the draw of mmorpgs was that the gameplay was amplified by other players; nobody except the most desperate of people ever played mmorpgs because they couldnt talk to online strangers anywhere else
the discords stemming from an mmorpg are also rarely "secret clubs," they're usually just guild-based servers which you can easily join by just joining the guild. oftentimes you dont even have to do that cause guildies will invite the people they party with even if theyre not in the guild
i'm not buying the whole "discord/other social media killed mmorpgs" thing. it's just stupid and has no basis in reality. if it was as simple as that then mmorpgs wouldnt have started dying in the first place because there will always be swathes of people starved for human interaction who would gladly search for it in mmorpgs
Terrible gameplay. Pressing 1 2 3 4 and playing the floor is lava isn't fun. Quests are usually barebones. The main appeal of a MMO is the millions of players you get to play with. In most MMOs this part is completely lost when 90% of the content is you running through a dungeon with only 3 others. You could put a hub area in a call of duty game and pass it off as a MMO if the bar is set that low. The UI
is almost always cluttered and ugly to look at
That expansion not only had the literally fricking frogs gay, they had flamboyant gay eco warrior dragons who you help adopt a baby duck to raise together, a butch lesbian and her literal moron cro magnon centaur lover, a wheelchair dragon, and my fricking favorite a gay centaur starcross lovers wedding you help the two propose to one another, get the shit together for their wedding, and then attend as a long ass quest chain.
Anyone, ANYONE in that entire expansion who was stated to have a significant other was trans or gay.
GW isnt technically an MMO because it's 3D ARPG maps combined with a magic the gathering build system, though maybe that's why its better than WoW. I wonder why no other company ever tried making a clone considering >ARPG's are more popular than ever >Magic the gathering is more popular then ever >There is no competition
the gathering is more popular then ever
Anon, there was a MtG ARPG that bombed super hard. Considering shit like Pinkertons, $1000 illegal proxies and the New Pyrexian/LotR shitshows, actual genuine interest is in an all time low.
>be disabled person >play game to forget about your daily problem >LOOK THIS CHARACTER IS DISABLED JUST LIKE YOU IN REAL LIFE, REMEMBER YOUR INABILITY TO WALK, RELATE TO THIS CHARACTER NOW, YOU CAN NEVER WALK NEVER
>be disabled for life and bound to a wheelchair until exoskeletons are a thing >have to endure the shame and very real drawbacks of disability >play a MMO where you get to be a hale fantasy character with functioning limbs and perform exciting feats of strength and heroism >reach this npc, a magical creature in a high fantasy setting where his own kind use restoring green wizardry as well as time magic to reverse mortal wounds, regrow limbs and undo any form of magic, restoring their own state to prime condition >Nah Ill stay broken and bound to my wheelchair
not a single fricking disabled person would say this on this planet or that fantasy setting
for the sake of representation blizzard created one of the most disgustingly stupid and horrible npcs you can think of, and the twitter trannies applaud them for it
Because gameplay has to be tied around varying internet speeds, so you'll never find an MMO with combat like DMC or Bayonetta. You're forced to make cooldown-based combat systems which are inherently more dull and become monotonous more quickly than action-based combat. Thus, skill is taken out of the equation and replaced with memorization. The main appeal of MMO gaming in the early-to-mid 2000s was presenting the player with a boundless world while intertwining social interaction with people from across the globe. Every game nowadays is open-world - which dilutes the efficacy of that first trait - and riddled with social systems - which dilutes the second. Thus, MMOs no longer present something new, interesting, or unique.
I feel like gameplay in mmo is overly complex. Usually if the game is complicated, requires you to learn the systems, optimize chains of actions and abilities and such, it comes with some payoff. With an MMO I feel like you learn all that complex shit just to kind of stand there and hit the enemy exactly like in every hack'n'slash with a single button.
There's a huge disproportion between the amount of input, and the actual actions it results in. In every other game you could do stuff like beating the enemy, healing your teammates with a press of a button, and then on the top of that, if you really get good at the game, you can pull off some amazing stuff. But in an MMO you put all that effort just to do ordinary stuff. That's their drawback from a purely gameplay perspective.
>free to play shit >dailies >microtransactions in a buy to play/sub game >people b***h if it's not like WoW >people b***h if it is like WoW >people want PvP >wait not like that >people want hardcore shit >wait not like that (looking at you, Wildstargays)
>makes you dependent on playerbase to enjoy them
This has not be true for like 15 years. And why the frick would you play a genre who's main selling point is playing with others in a large world if you don't want to interact with people?
>no one talks anymore
Well as other anons have pointed out, there's so much QoL in MMOs these days that there is zero reason to talk >Need people for a dungeon, have the game find them for you or post a listing in the group/party finder >Need an item or piece of gear, go to the server wide marketplace where players put gear up for sale >Need to go to the other side of the map, either teleport there, turn on auto-walk whilst on a flying mount or run there with zero resistance, since there are no penalties for dying >Mobs are so useless and weak now that they might as well not exist and the only real function they serve is too aggro players at the most inopportune time and cancel the NPC interaction or stand next to quest NPCs, forcing you to engage with them (looking at you FFXIV)
Even when you have a reason to talk, like downtime or the opportunity to use a non-conventional solution no one wants to talk. Feels like streamlining all the interaction out of the genre is a symptom rather than the sickness.
True. The internet is also a very different place, why talk or try anything unconventional when you can watch Youtube/Twitch/Netflix, look up a guide, talk to your friends in discord, read a comic/manga, browse social media, etc.
Because they're the opposite of gaming. There's no platforming no level design no puzzles no dialogues or characters and no story.
And even if there are it's dishonest and out of place slapped on content because behind all of that is the core mmo concept which is a barren world without any player interaction. You click on a monster, kill it while speaking to a friend about your day over TeamSpeak.
The core appeal of MMOs was the radical idea that you could socialize with people, but on the internet. But these days social media lets you do that without paying a sub.
idk but, I just resubbed to swtor. Last time I played was in 2014. Its population feels the same as it was back then except the difference is that the market is fricked now.
They're fine, it's just that the only MMO people play anymore is FF14
Everyone who plays MMOs consolidated into that one because well, it's the best one
Maplestory is funny with that, especially KMS. >"LOL LOOK AT THOSE POORgayS PLAYING ON REBOOT" >"NOOOOOOO, WHY DO THEY GET TO HAVE BETTER GEAR AND MORE CUBES THAN US????? I SPENT 30,000,000 WON MAKING MY CHARACTERS"
Because it's a stagnant genre in a time where there are guides for everything (removing all of the mystery) and people demand instant gratification or they leave (removing the need to socialize). To accommodate modern gamers MMOs have become sterile theme park rides.
You're delusional if you think corporate fricking off and being less moronic would automatically make modern MMOs any better, these games are fricked at their core.
why do you think they're not innovating? The fact that your first instinct was to blame the developers shows you don't know jack shit about PLM
11 months ago
Anonymous
Again, you are delusional. I would rather MMOs regress to how they used to be than have any modern developer try to "innovate". Why would I have any expectations from people who promote single-player shit in MMORPGs? They have already cultivated fan bases who inherently dislikes MMORPGs, why would I blindly have faith in them because corporate took the wieners out of their ass?
11 months ago
Anonymous
lmao you're talking out both sides of your tract now >hurr they don't innovate >durr innovation bad
frick off ya dumb c**t
11 months ago
Anonymous
When did I ever complained about modern MMOs not innovating? You alright bro?
Look at the abundance of indie games, MMOs included, a lack of corporate does not automatically ensure quality. Like I said, these games are inherently shit at their core.
>have great memories of MMOs when I was younger >friend asks me what my favorite MMO endgame was >come to the realization that I just jumped MMOs without actually doing much beside being casual and chatting in them
I'm beginning to believe that the red tinted glasses accusers might have a semi valid point.
Loved me some Mabinogi though.
Too many MMOs seem to make sure players don’t have any FOMO make make all of the players/classes/jobs way too interchangeable and it makes most MMOs feel entirely too similar. Wouldn’t want to healers to be unable to fight enemies solo so we need to give them attack abilities. Wouldn’t want the DPS classes to be unable to solo so they need some defensive cool downs or welfare healing so they don’t have to sit and recover between kills. Don’t want the tanks to take forever to kill shit either so normal enemies are all weak as frick.
Older games like Ragnarok Online made healers weak as shit but gave them the ability to blow up undead, then implemented dungeons with tons of undead so they could do SOMETHING solo but still benefit from partying up. Potions were a thing but they weighed a lot and were kind of expensive so merchants could supply them to others at a discount while still making a profit for themselves. You couldn’t fast travel all over the place without an acolyte warping you there but even they couldn’t do it without a material component. Crafters were the only way you could get elemental weapons for a while and before that mages/archers with elemental arrows were really the only way to exploit elemental weaknesses. Lots of mechanics that gave specific jobs very real advantages over others and promoted working together much more than “you need any combination of the very interchangeable damage/tank/healer jobs for this quest” shit we keep getting now.
gee, why doesn't anyone want to play a boring leveling treadmill simulator filled to the fricking brim with microtransaction and subscriptions wrapped around some archaic tab target + hotbar spam """gameplay """ with a constant push for less emphasis on player interaction
I'm tired of tab target
I'm tired of theme parks
I'm tired of gacha
I'm tired of pay2win
I'm tired of the leveling content not mattering and having no effort put into it
I'm tired of feeling like an unstoppable force and the game on autoplay until max level
I'm tired of the game "beginning" at max level
I'm tired of every feature focusing on "quality of life" (read: further casualizing the game)
I'm tired of being the chosen one
I'm tired of the company running the game ignoring any and all problems until it financially explodes in their face because they care more about short term profits than the long term health of the game
I could keep going on.
I want to like mmos again, I really do, but I just can't accept 99.9% of the shit today.
Perhaps blue protocol will be the one, but it's being published by amazon games in the west and they've already fricked up so bad that it's releasing a year later than every other region so yeah.
Extremely anime, real time combat designed by people from the same company that made the tales of, code vein and god eater games, a mix of high fantasy and future tech, gear upgrading is done almost exclusively through crafting, and did I mention it's extremely anime?
>real time combat
isnt it basically the same as other mmo's tho?
big enemy attacks are broadcast on the ground with red shapes you stay out of
8/9 skills have cooldowns, most pretty lengthy
it looks like a flashier, slightly smoother guild wars 2
mmo tryhards like to pretend their gear based game is actually skill based so they get super excited when a game releases with all the tab target combat replaced with every skill being an aoe.
>Pax Dei and Ashes of Creation are the only two noteworthy MMOs in that list.
Here's the actual noteworthy ones that will be high profile and have chances of succeeding:
>Chrono Odyssey
This will be the next Throne and Liberty, initially looks cools, is absolute trash when players get their hands on it.
As for the LoTR MMO, I have no hope in that shit after New World
Riot and Zenimax are the only real contenders here >Amazon's LotR MMO
Who's gonna tell him
Amazon have said that New World was fricked up due to them having to rework the game last minute and having to use the shitty ass Lumberyard engine. For this next MMO they will use a "next-gen version" of their previous Azoth engine.
>Amazon have said that New World was fricked up due to them having to rework the game last minute
Because they're moronic and reworked the entire game based off private play sessions, which included e-celebs. The game was meant to be an open-world, faction based PvP MMO, not another fricking themepark cesspool
11 months ago
Anonymous
>The game was meant to be an open-world, faction based PvP MMO
I remember playing it when it was like Rust. It was fun as frick to me, but it was also a gigantic grief fest, so that's probably why they reworked it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
A PvP focused MMO would never work. Especially if they poured a lot of money into it. They could've never turned a profit with the budget they had if they had stuck to their original vision
I wonder why shit like Rust and DayZ work, whilst PvP oriented MMOs always get shit canned. Anyway, an MMO being purely about PvP is kind of dumb, you need PvE too, attract casuals or crafter-gather players to inhabit the world and have a working economy. New World just went way too far and made PvP completely optional and designed the entire game around PvE
11 months ago
Anonymous
A PvP focused MMO would never work. Especially if they poured a lot of money into it. They could've never turned a profit with the budget they had if they had stuck to their original vision
11 months ago
Anonymous
It's a bitter pill to swallow for some.
Every time it gets tried it immediately turns into a nonstop gank fest with the result being the persons getting griefed quitting.
It's a self destructive cycle in which the winner at the end of the game is the only one left playing, who then quits himself because there's no one left to curb stomp.
It's why most wow servers have 99%/.1% faction splits.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It's why most wow servers have 99%/.1% faction splits.
WoW servers have faction imbalance simply for population reasons, not because of PvP. Why play on servers where you can only play with 50% of the playerbase, when you can play on servers where you can play with 99% of it instead?
11 months ago
Anonymous
No its entirely because of PvP
ratio matters for PvP, not PvE. PvE is just a matter of reaching the critical mass of players to be lively at any given time, which you can easily do for both factions on a given server
but even if you have plenty of players, if youre outnumbered 2:1 or worse people will start leaving and that snowballs
11 months ago
Anonymous
the split is almost solely because every serious raider has gone horde for the last 15 years for racials, alliance was also seen as a bunch of gays
11 months ago
Anonymous
horde racials were equalized in WoD and have been worse since Legion
Nelf and Dwarf are far and away the best and have been for years now >alliance was also seen as a bunch of gays
because they are. They simply wont play the game, so people went horde where you have raiders instead of rpers
11 months ago
Anonymous
doesn't matter that they equalized it, everyone serious about raiding was already playing horde which forced every new player to also go horde, continuing to skew the ratio until alliance had like 5% of groups forming. unless blizz provided unlimited free faction swaps it would never have been solved
11 months ago
Anonymous
solution was to put a gun to alliancegays skulls and make them actually play the game
instead of handing out void elves for solo content make them clear m+
11 months ago
Anonymous
why would they when RPers pay for every mount and weekly race swaps for their multiple orgy accounts, they're literally blizzard's cash cows
11 months ago
Anonymous
>No its entirely because of PvP
It's not.
>ratio matters for PvP, not PvE
I literally just explained to you why it matters a frickton for PvE. Why do you think Blizzard have been working so hard to implement cross-server + cross-faction guilds, M+, and raiding?
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, you didnt.
You dont need 100% of the players on a server to fill your groups. You need 4 people for a dungeon and 9 for a raid. Once you can comfortably and consistently fill you groups, more players does frick all.
But when you have the opposite faction ganking you even with a full group youre going to leave the server. When you keep losing tags to the other faction, youre going to get angry and leave the server. Its 100% about PvP
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You dont need 100% of the players on a server to fill your groups
You don't NEED it, but why wouldn't you want it? The more players you have, the more lively the server is for whatever activity you want to do.
>But when you have the opposite faction ganking you even with a full group youre going to leave the server
Are you completely unaware that world PvP in WoW is completely non-existent and has been for +5 years by now? There's a thing called War Mode that's basically a global PvP toggle, meaning that 90% of the WoW playerbase has it toggled off permanently. PvP servers are a thing of the past.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You don't NEED it, but why wouldn't you want it?
Because it costs money? If I can already fill my groups easily I lose money for no practical gain in moving servers >world PvP in WoW is completely non-existent and has been for +5 years by now?
Server trends were set far before that. A balanced server wont die out because its not 99:1. The servers were totally lopsided far before warmode, but theyre not going to randomly fix themselves now that one faction has fallen too low
11 months ago
Anonymous
>The servers were totally lopsided far before warmod
Yes, you are LITERALLY contradicting yourself. You said that server imbalances were due to PvP. Are you a schizo? Do you actually even play WoW?
11 months ago
Anonymous
PvP existed before warmode you moron
back then, people would leave servers for being slightly lopsided and it would snowball
Now servers are just stagnant because theres no correcting force
11 months ago
Anonymous
Tell me when you last played WoW. What year was it?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>deflecting
yeah just take the L and leave moron
When youre running a dungeon it doesnt matter how many opposite faction players are technically on your server, because they arent in your dungeon. Its that simple
11 months ago
Anonymous
You can just admit that you likely haven't played WoW for more than a decade, and you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Imagine unironically attempting to say that the server faction imbalances are due to PvP. Jesus christ, you are clueless.
>When youre running a dungeon it doesnt matter how many opposite faction players are technically on your server, because they arent in your dungeon
Exactly, you are proving my point. Why would you want your server to be anything but a 99/1 split? You are never going to interact with the other faction in any way. They are just taking up population on your server that could instead be on your own faction and maximize your potential population for groups/guilds. People realized this and that's why almost every single WoW server became like this.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Imagine unironically attempting to say that the server faction imbalances are due to PvP.
it was >Why would you want your server to be anything but a 99/1 split
the point is that for PvE the split is irrelevant >You are never going to interact with the other faction in any way.
In PvE no, in PvE yes, you will, hence people react to that >They are just taking up population on your server
the capacity for a WoW server is massive, this isnt a real issue >maximize your potential population for groups/guilds
because past a certain point it just doesnt matter, people arent going to spend a ton of money transferring when you already have so many groups available just to have EVEN MORE.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>the point is that for PvE the split is irrelevant
It's not though. If you have ever done any high end PvE, you'd know how moronic you sound by writing this. If you are doing high-end content, you want as many players as possible for your potential pool of people you can recruit for your groups/guilds.
It's incredibly clear that you are completely clueless, and you have likely not played WoW for like +10 years. I am done talking to you, because you are clearly absolutely moronic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
cope. people with your brain damage are exactly like SJWs shoehorning ugly women into everything. PvP worked many times before the carebear brigade had to turn everything into a hugbox. every MMO i played in the past had a PvP server and a PvE one for trannies and morons, and the PvP one was always the most populous one. EVERY. TIME.
dunking NPCs is boring to anyone. you will never have a genre as popular a battle royale for example where you just kill NPCs. that doesn't even make any sense, you don't need to be connected to anyone to do that
It's a bitter pill to swallow for some.
Every time it gets tried it immediately turns into a nonstop gank fest with the result being the persons getting griefed quitting.
It's a self destructive cycle in which the winner at the end of the game is the only one left playing, who then quits himself because there's no one left to curb stomp.
It's why most wow servers have 99%/.1% faction splits.
that's not the experience of 99% of the players. crybabies are a loud minority that take games way too seriously. and i am talking from experience i'd need to kill a thousand different players to finally be targeted and receive death and report threats from seething idiots. mostly it was just laughs.
>It's why most wow servers have 99%/.1% faction splits.
and that's why you don't copy game mechanics from trash games like wow
11 months ago
Anonymous
>people with your brain damage are exactly like SJWs shoehorning ugly women into everything
Why did you bother writing anything after making such a profoundly moronic statement
11 months ago
Anonymous
you're not in the majority and your theme parks are all dead or dying SORRY!
11 months ago
Anonymous
all your pvp games are dead except for eve and albion (dying). all of them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
nyga ***MY*** pvp games were MURDERED by your inferior kind and don't even have any form of PvP anymore, or ran as PvE game for a while and then closed because everyone left
11 months ago
Anonymous
no, you morons keep ganking everyone which turns your super special mmo into a barren wasteland, see mortal 2. you are the smith of your own mistfortune.
11 months ago
Anonymous
nahhhhhhhh NO EVEN
everything was completely fine until THE ONE PATCH came and then everyone went their way, and after that there was no one left but coping freaks
this is the real succession of events
>mortal 2
love how PvP became such a rarity that freaks like yourself always go for these shitty indie tier games that no one played as if no other game ever did PvP
11 months ago
Anonymous
no, you're wrong, you will eternally be wrong, you will never be correct. every time a new pvp focused mmo opens you will be there ganking new players and making them quit, you will whine and cry on the forums when devs announce new ways to monetize after you have spent 8 hours ganking everyone around the starter towns into leaving the game. this is your design.
>shitty indie tier
you are so moronic that you don't realize mortal 2 is the only slightly alive full loot pvp mmo aside from eve and albion
11 months ago
Anonymous
>you will eternally be wrong, you will never be correct. every time a new pvp focused mmo opens you will be there ganking new players and making them quit
i will eternally target people who are annoying and try to prevent me from PvPing in PvP games yes
>the forums when devs announce new ways to monetize after you have spent 8 hours ganking everyone around the starter towns into leaving the game. this is your design.
and you will be crying alone, without the toxic PvPers, when the dev decides that you need to open your wallet or grind 1000 tasks instead of the previous 10 tasks after it becomes evident that this demand for wow clones and safespaces doesn't actually exist
>you are so moronic that you don't realize
you are so moronic that you don't realize no one gives a frick about that game (or MMOs in general)
11 months ago
Anonymous
>and you will be crying alone
no i won't, i've already swapped to a pve mmo while you're still seething about your tenth game becoming some bland new world-tier abomination. please remember that you pvpcels are the only ones losing, and you're doing it fully on your own. and then promptly have a nice day for being a waste of dev resources.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>you're still seething about your tenth game becoming some bland new world-tier abomination
bruh i fully moved on from MMOs. enjoy killing your dead genre even further sucker
11 months ago
Anonymous
you killed your own games so hard that you had to move on, all the games i grew up with are still going strong because they weren't centered around driving people away from them, stay eternally mad
11 months ago
Anonymous
this carebear crab mentality is really fricking sad and moronic. no one cares you think you're enjoying your mediocre themeparks that are probably on their last breath.
all top games on twitch right now are PvP based. there are plenty of games where i can PvP all day, having it to be a MMO is just a different flavor of the same thing. it makes no difference to me.
11 months ago
Anonymous
i only care about mmos so you're arguing with yourself now
11 months ago
Anonymous
>pvpigger crying about carebears because no one wants to play dogshit pvp mmos
except no one wants dogshit hugboxes. your genre is dead, and no you cant blame it on pvpers because your dogshit hugboxes don't offer pvp to begin with
11 months ago
Anonymous
>biggest and longest lasting mmos have pvp as side content >autistic full loot pvp mmos pop up and die in less than a month
I'm sorry facts trigger you so much, but unless you name is EVE online and people have literal hundreds of thousands of dollars of sunk cost already your pvp mmo is dead on arrival
11 months ago
Anonymous
eve and albion?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>biggest and longest lasting mmos have pvp as side content
dead genre. cope harder >autistic full loot pvp mmos pop up and die in less than a month >the same self defeating "gotcha" again
why would a PvPer with any standards choose those shitty games (including EVE) over a non MMO PvP game? you're so out of touch and dumb
11 months ago
Anonymous
Its more alive than fullloot pvp mmos lmao
11 months ago
Anonymous
because an MMO with full loot can't be made without making you foam out of your mouth demanding it to be changed
there are plenty of PvP games out there with full loot that are many times more popular than your dogshit themepark
11 months ago
Anonymous
name the, homosexual
11 months ago
Anonymous
literally open twitch right now moron
>this gay is frantically googling full loot pvp mmos to try find any that top WoW in its peak or even modern XIV
i said PvP games, not MMOs
full loot games are insanely popular, but you cant make a full loot MMO without triggering carebear sjws demanding it to be changed to exactly match their dead theme park
11 months ago
Anonymous
>moves the goal posts
pathetic
11 months ago
Anonymous
>this gay is frantically googling full loot pvp mmos to try find any that top WoW in its peak or even modern XIV
11 months ago
Anonymous
>pvpigger crying about carebears because no one wants to play dogshit pvp mmos
11 months ago
Anonymous
Almost every mmo player I've seen who obsesses over mmo pvp is a hardstuck shitter from another pvp game without fail. That's why they beg for more mmo pvp so they can feel rewarded with playtime rather than any invested skill.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, the people who actually want skill-based gameplay will play those PvP games. It's quite funny because those players look at MMO PvPers the same way MMO PvPers look at the PvE carebears. At the end of the day you're both morons playing a watered down genre.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes that's the appeal. Build variety is what distinguishes MMO PvP from loadout-inspired PvP games.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, the people who actually want skill-based gameplay will play those PvP games. It's quite funny because those players look at MMO PvPers the same way MMO PvPers look at the PvE carebears. At the end of the day you're both morons playing a watered down genre.
utterly false. every pvper wants horizontal progression so that they can be rewarded for their skills, while pve shitters want it to be vertical so that they can be rewarded for their time killing npcs or their wallet.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>i will eternally target people who are annoying and try to prevent me from PvPing in PvP games yes
i rape you in pvp and make you cum on my belly
The first 1-2 months of Archeage felt fricking magical. It was so cool to have a game that actually felt like a living and breathing world, with things like crafting, trading, traveling, PKing, etc. that reminded me of oldschool games like UO. It's such a shame the game got ruined by pay2win garbage.
Those initial months of Archeage still give me hope that it's possible to release a good MMO. It's such a shame that something so good went to such shit thanks to RNG lootboxes killing illegal tree farms.
Throne and Liberty was in development for 12 years. Wildstar started development in like 2006, 2007 and didn't release until 2014, both of these had publishers. I have no idea why you expect an indie MMO to be released already.
>scamming people
Pretty sure they said like 1-2 years ago that they have all the funds needed to complete the game, and that they don't need any more. Everyone giving them money after that are just willingly doing it.
Ecaflip in Dofus are considered "jack of all trades" in Dofus alongside Huppermage. They're okay and get the job done. They can do pretty much a bit of everything you'll find you'll need in combat. My veteran friend primarily plays Ecaflip and he seems to like it.
being addicted to wow is why i have no friends now in my early 30s and don't know how to make any. i had some friends in high school, but i used to blow them off to play wow and eventually i just stopped hanging out with them entirely. i think my life would have ended up in a much better place if i had even a small network of friends.
The audience of people who would play an MMO has gone from "nerds with at least a little social competence" to "every terminally online freak."
The other players that make up the Massively Multiplayer part of your MMO have gone sour. There’s no fixing that, and it means you’re never getting another good one.
It's the same with this website. The only time I am on here is when I am having some kind of mental health crisis and it makes me wonder what proportion of people here are in the midst of a psychiatric emergency.
social media are easier for extroverts, introverts play single player games that are actually good games, as they have always done.
they serve no purpose anymore.
Because at their core they are bad games. They are originally made for two things: adventure, which is killed by modern day UI and third party websites, as well as community, which was also killed by third party apps and a general expansion of the internet. There are some people who accept the shittiness because they have nothing else going on in their lives so they need a grind simulator, but this is no different than ARPG or Gacha game addiction.
But those are shit numbers
Besides Destiny 2, which isn't an MMO to begin with, none of those numbers come close to what WoW was up until around Cataclysm
Those are also just the numbers of the people who download and play them through steam. There's no reason to get ff14 on steam because it almost never goes on sale while it goes on sale pretty much every other month on the square enix store and BDO wasn't even on steam for the first couple years of it's life. The only one I can say that's really accurate is warframe, maybe destiny 2 and ESO too, I haven't played them so no idea if they're available elsewhere.
>which isn't an MMO to begin with
Sadly the definition has been changed over the years because zoomers are morons. Just like P2W, a term that is taken so literal now that the question is "hurr what u win doe?" when people take issues with boosts and skips. The genre is dead, just play on private servers. SWG was the last best MMO for me so that's what I play.
Forever grinds for 'permanent' rewards is not an appealing design anymore, now that generations have passed and we have all the Everquests and WoWs to look back on. People are aware of the worthlessness of it all, where before there seemed to have been a timeless charm that incentivized people to play. These days people don't want their time wasted (at least not so much "in their face"). Solution - high stakes gameplay for immediate rewards that are temporary by design. Think of Runescape's wilderness where there was fantastic loot to earn in a very direct and quick fashion, but if you died there and got looted, you lost your shit.
they wanted to remove it there too, thank god they actually take their communities opinions into consideration. The pit thing dividing the wildy from safespaces is pretty fukken gay tho
how to make an MMO that isn't immediately dead:
1. have it force shut down discord when the game is opened
2. allow addons but explicitly forbid 'meters' and 'gearscore' type addons. obfuscate game code to make it impossible to develop such addons and do not provide any numbers-logging capabilities to prevent outside programs from reading log files to analyze for dps
3. provide in-game, party based voice chat. no filters, personal ignore buttons for individuals. ignoring prints a message to the entire party that player x has ignored player y (to prevent coward thin skinned morons from hiding from the fact that they're hiding from harsh truths)
4. provide in-game text ignore, but no filter on channel content by default. explicitly institute freedom of speech on in game communications; yes, this means one person can shout Black person and another person can shout frick trannies and yet another can shout frick white people. all are okay. the only rule is no spamming.
5. don't waste your time with 'action combat'.
6. do not provide fanservice fapbait shit in any character, or in any cash shop outfits.
(optional) 7. do not allow female characters to be made period, this will entirely erase 85% of troony/erp/cringe/fapbait morons, but is a little extreme even for this list
>6. do not provide fanservice fapbait shit in any character, or in any cash shop outfits.
It's funny, because that shit literally saved Tera for years.
if by 'saved' you mean 'allowed it to limp on as devs sucked money out of thirsty virgin weebs who do nothing but pretend to be pre-pubescent e-girls and suck each other's pretend futa wieners while not actually playing the fricking game', then yeah i guess it 'saved' tera tera was dogshit because it was clearly designed to scalp morons out of their money for panty shots on their female characters. everything in the game was geared towards that and the much smaller fujo crowd doing it with male characters. it was never good as a game.
It was actually pretty fun at points, but yeah it leaned heavily into the cash shop to sustain itself. It's really fricking sad to see games go down the drain due to shareholder greed. Runescape has gotta be the most tragic by far. >made by 3 nerds in their mom's basement >game turns out to be a huge hit >grows exponentially over time >fricking chinese and venezuelans start doing stuff like stealing credit cards and scamming kids >UK government is pissed >frick it kill free trade >game practically dies overnight >eventually work things out and return free trade, but the damage is done >Andrew Gower mentions it stressed him the frick out due to the constant worry of his game dying and the possibility of being sued >sell game for a hefty sum to a company >surprise, that company is chinese >they immediately add a cash spin2win system that the Gowers said would never happen under their watch >game goes into an endless spiral of cash shop garbage, lootboxes, revamping the game to be a wannabe WoW, etc >game goes from medieval fantasy with brit humor to "everyone has glowing wings, wears a bikini, and other gaudy shit" >Gowers still mention to this day how they hate the decision they made to sell RS
yes, xiv shoots itself in the foot by its ability to log. trannies will then use parser addons to cause cancerous meta-slavery to THE PARSER as a result. they need to disable that shit. gearscore is another offender of 'boil players down to one arbitrary number'. it kills community.
you missed my point, xiv provides no way to log numbers, act is a packet sniffer and you're not gonna get around that. people WILL create parse meters in your game too
except its not, anon. ACT and addons like it literlaly require you to turn on logging in the client, and then it reads the combat log file as its generated by the game, piecing together a parser from those contents.
it doesnt sniff your packets
axe the log file and it doesn't have anything. and if someone does develop a sniffer, ban its usage, ban its users, and obfuscate your netcode so that it can't just suck up numbers from packets so easily
my bad it was actually Lost Ark that had a packet parser, the point still stands, developers will do this no matter how hard you try to obfuscate numbers
We are over socialized. There is no reason to play MMOs anymore. They do nothing better than regular multiplayer games or the average singleplayer game.
it's no longer about adventure or roleplay. it's just loot grinding and min maxing in a lifeless world that's basically one giant diorama with nothing to find. there's never any real effort put towards questing, it's just a text paragraph thrown in your face and a quest marker put on your map. gameplay systems never evolve, it's either tab target or mash the hotbar. raiding and endgame being the "true start" of the game is lame. innovation requires risk and MMOs are all about copying what's financially successful.
tl;dr they're boring grind slogs, just play singleplayer adventure games and RPGs, they have real game design
the concept of questing sucks ass, some dude with an exclamation mark giving you four tasks is the least immersive thing i can imagine. where are the mmos with organic exploration-based discoveries? why do all mmos feel so cramped aside from niche shit like eve?
MMOs, on top of being games, were ye olde social media. 9/10 people didn't log on to do daily grind shit, they logged on to socialize with friends. Now we have proper social media, better messengers, etc. So why put up with a grindy time/money sink?
because online gaming culture evolved, zoomers don't play MMOs because that's way too much commitment for their attention span, whereas boomers grew up and don't have time for another job anymore
The modern "gamer"'s dopamine receptors are fried to a crisp. They don't want to explore, adventure or work. They just want a theme park with a gacha login reward at the end of each ride. Wikis and other readily available information don't have anything to do with this problem - XI for half of it's golden age had one and it didn't destroy the game.
1) They take too much effort to make now a days, a singleplayer half finished rpg takes a fricking decade at this point
2) The way we interact with games in general has changed, look at how even existing MMOs are all about minmax now a days.
Because Devs are creatively bankrupt in the genre. It will return one day, when someone understands copy and pasting with slight tweaks to the formula isn't enough.
People have optimized the gameplay too much, and rampant goldselling has ruined the multiplayer aspect. Normal groups are obsolete due to boosting, normal guilds are obsolete due to gdkp.
A problem exclusive to world of warcraft. DKP is the old system where you got points for participating in raids or doing other shit for your guild. You could spend those points to roll on items. In world of warcraft gold is so important that people basically now use gold to bid for items when they drop from bosses, the gold is then distributed to the raid afterwards. He's saying that you basically have to spend money now to buy gold to get items, so even a game that isn't actually p2w becomes p2w because of the community.
They are raid drops, so they are usually the high end gear, but some raids also drop mounts and such so it's basically both. You can buy the best gear in the game and you can buy cosmetics.
seems so alien to me that GEAR drops from fights in Dofus!!! mobs, dungeons and bosses just drop resources - resources which are required to craft equipment - nearly all equipment is crafted
and you need lots of resources and you need a leveled profession so resources are more often simply sold rather than people farming content to craft gear
11 months ago
Anonymous
>seems so alien to me that GEAR drops from fights
I don't think I have ever played an MMO where it wasn't like this, and I've played tons. I've never tried Dofus though, but their system sounds interesting.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>seems so alien to me that GEAR drops from fights
has been this way as long as rpgs existed my man
Congratulations, you have figured out how economies work. Your argument is so moronic that you couldn't have spend more than 2 fricking seconds to think it through. You spend gold on things other people want / offer you for it. Same with fricking money. The reason why people work to earn money is because others are willing to trade them shit for it. Saying gold is worthless, but being able to buy items from other players for it is the most moronic statement I've ever read.
>playing
botting requires very little work, at least back in the day. you could literally print irl money with maplestory by botting and checking in with the latest exploits. these things used to go for $700 a pop
>he paid to play gay MMOs while chads like me destroyed the economy with hax & exploitz and made money from it
cringer!
11 months ago
Anonymous
>plays gay MMOs for money >chad >cringer!
Oof.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>he was too young to take advantage of the golden age of MMOs when you could make money off of them with free hack tools
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO zoomzoom btfo
11 months ago
Anonymous
>golden age of MMOs >making cents off the dollar botting in maplestory
Zoomer behavior.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>cents off the dollar >making hundreds of bucks a week with just a few clicks
jelly zoomger
i see that as an alternative to playing a game for a few years and then quitting or gifting your items to other online people that aren't even your friends. i made 2000$ by selling items that would otherwise go to waste
One of you is playing for fun and then selling some of your items when you decide to quit and move on, the other is botting and grinding the game for the sake of making money.
>"You know, maybe I should give WoW an honest shot." >The game doesn't have a sync feature for old raids. Not only are they irrelevant, but you legitimately can not even get a half decent time out of anything more than two years old. >But it's in the game files wasting space anyway.
What the frick is wrong with these people?
>Making an automated system to limit player stats to certain thresholds so they can play the content we force them to download is a bad thing, as shown by our ineffective measures of manually doing it on a dungeon by dungeon basis each expansion.
I think new players deserve better than being told to go frick themselves.
How about you go frick yourself for being a moron, okay moron?
capping stats wont account for changes to class mechanics, spell coefficients or non raw stat gear
We've had herald of the titans for years, requiring people to complete a raid at level with capped gear
Guess what moron? its difficulty varied wildly
And scaling already is fully automatic you dumbfrick.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>WOW ANON YOU'RE STUPID FRICKING IDIOT IT'S JUST BAD AND CAN'T BE FIXED! >Meanwhile their competitor does it just fine every single expansion with every piece of content they ever made.
Sounds like Blizzard is just incompetent and you're trying to cope.
11 months ago
Anonymous
But they dont, scaled XIV raids are considerably easier than at release due to potency buffs. So why are you lying?
XIV also has the most shallow class design on the market, no talent trees, completely bland soulless gear and dont just scale you down but flat out remove your abilities because it would even further ruin the balance
If XIV wasnt so shallow it would be even more obvious why scaling doesnt work
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Somehow slid the conversation all the way from "Why the frick can't WoW just let players sync content, goddamn" to "WELL I MEAN XIV BALANCE SUCKS"
Disingenuous c**t.
It's unacceptable that Blizz can't provide the content they force you to download at something resembling a decent experience.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I know youre extremely low IQ, but it doesnt work
It doesnt work in XIV, and thats a very shallow game. It will fail even harder in WoW, as has already been shown by timewalking. Wow has layers of class and gear mechanics that are constantly changing
you can sync down normally in XIV and before you could sync down to the minimum ilvl possible for a piece of content to play it in the hardest possible way
why can't blizzard do that with more than like 1 dungeon at a time?
Except you cant, because of potency changes. The hardest version is forever lost as soon as a spell gets a potency buff
Minimum ilvl wont account for changes in spell coefficients. In WoW, there are also changes in talents, changes in trinkets/tier, changes in resource generation, cooldowns and more. So tell me how you scale around that? And rescale every single time it changes.
Theres a reason in Wrath Algalon was hard to kill and in MoP it could be 2 manned even wearing the same gear at level 80.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Uhm you are stupid poo poo dumb >Also I don't think it's good enough so the devs shouldn't even bother.
Pathetic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
thanks for admitting you never once tried to min ilvl a dungeon
wanderer's palace is a breeze playing normally
doing it min ilvl took over an hour
11 months ago
Anonymous
>literally too stupid to even understand what Im saying
embarrassing
no matter what gay instance you ran, its easier than it was before the last potency buff. The hardest version is forever lost
11 months ago
Anonymous
>min ilvl is harder than doing it normally even after two expansions of class buffs >NONONOONONONONONONONO ITS GONE FOREVER SHUT UP
cope homosexual
11 months ago
Anonymous
it is gone forever, you still havent refuted that
its easier than before, youve moved the goal. Its not original difficulty, its some bastardized in between because scaling doesnt actually work
WoW already has bastardized in between difficulty in timewalking. Nobody does it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Nobody does it.
doesn't the event also come with a weekly that gives you a free piece of heroic raid loot? and there's also an autistically low drop rate mount from that shit too, not to mention TOYSMOUNTSMOGSCHEEVOS from the currency
11 months ago
Anonymous
>doesn't the event also come with a weekly that gives you a free piece of heroic raid loot?
comes from dungeons, you dont need to touch the raid so people skip it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
what? that's what i just said, the free piece of loot comes from doing 4 (i think) timewalking dungeons
11 months ago
Anonymous
Its gone forever because it was removed from the game as an option because it was so hard no one did it.
It was also harder than doin itg when the dungeon was current content, it was harder than what the game sync'd you down to when queueing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Its gone forever because it was removed from the game as an option because it was so hard no one did it.
every single old instance is easier than it was before because of potency buffs. Not just one instance, all of them.
And the next time they buff your class min ilvl will be easier than it is now. It will keep getting easier from every buff. Scaling will never handle this, which is why its worthless.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>moronic wowbuck is too stupid to read
11 months ago
Anonymous
>weeb too stupid to understand how buffs make content easier
11 months ago
Anonymous
>too stupid to understand that being scaled down to the lowest possible ilevel to enter a dungeon makes it harder than when it was current and you could enter it normally with much more powerful gear
11 months ago
Anonymous
And its still easier than 2 patches ago when you were weaker
Why are you comparing min ilvl to not min ilvl? Historically min ilvl keeps getting easier and easier, scaling isnt able to stop that, it completely fails to maintain difficulty
When current, min ilvl was harder than it is now. Youre conflating different game modes and trying to act like its not getting easier.
Again, WoW has an ilvl limited achievement. It still got wildly easier over time, going from something you need 9-10 people for to 2. You still havent addressed this, its clear cut proof that downscaling doesnt work
11 months ago
Anonymous
>min ilvl is hardest version of running a piece of content >even harder than when it was current content
why are wowbucks so stupid and unable to read?
11 months ago
Anonymous
but its not the hardest, its easier than min ilvl when current. its also easier than min ilvl 1 patch ago, 2 patches ago, 3 patches ago, etc.
Why are you lying?
11 months ago
Anonymous
But thats wrong. I played min ilvl dungeons with friends.
why do you keep trying to lie to cover for blizzard's laziness
11 months ago
Anonymous
The original post was actually about how WoW not having universal, on-demand content syncing is fricking stupid when the game forces you to download the assets for those instances regardless.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Scaling wont give you an authentic experience, only create more issues. So why add it?
Of course you have to download all assets, its an MMO, even if theres content you wont touch other people will.
11 months ago
Anonymous
What issue would it create? XIV can handle scaling players down to run all the game's content at level. They used to be able to handle scaling you down to the level of the content while also capping your gear to the lowest possible ilvl to even get in. WoW has no problem drip feeding sync dungeons once every 2 weeks
11 months ago
Anonymous
>WoW has no problem drip feeding sync dungeons once every 2 weeks
but timewalking tuning is completely terrible? Its consistently way off the mark.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>they didn't get the scaling perfect the first time so they shouldn't ever try do it at all
11 months ago
Anonymous
even if they got it perfect once the next patch or even hotfix would ruin it again
its not worth constantly having to re balance a boatload of instances and character scaling every time a new patch comes.
Its impossible to properly balance
Even if it was possible it would need to be redone constantly, making it a colossal development time sink
And even if they did all that, nobody would fricking use it.
It is nothing but a pointless waste.
11 months ago
Anonymous
blizzdrones are too stupid to be expected to memorise every mechanic of every boss fight in the game
you see, mechanics in WoW actually do matter. it's not an issue in XIV because dungeon boss fights are all a joke and failing mechanics is a slap on the wrist unless you're actually braindead and do it 5 times in a row
11 months ago
Anonymous
you can sync down normally in XIV and before you could sync down to the minimum ilvl possible for a piece of content to play it in the hardest possible way
why can't blizzard do that with more than like 1 dungeon at a time?
A theme park mmo is basically something where the developers give you a new attraction every once in a while. Something like a new raid or a new dungeon. Those raids and dungeons are the "rides" for the themepark. The opposite of that is something like archeage where shit is player driven and the content comes from what other players do.
And what happens to a player-driven MMO when the playerbase starts dwindling? Archeage 2 will be a theme park mmo because those are the only MMOs that have ever made money
The same thing that happens when the playerbase starts dwindling in a theme park mmo. Suddenly you won't be able to play the game the way it was intended to be played. Why the frick are we having this discussion anyways? There is no need for you to get so defensive, I never commented on how good the concepts were. I merely stated the difference between them. Shit like traderuns are boring ass content, but so is grinding the same garbage raid for the 10th week in a row. The genre needs innovation, not fanboys getting defensive.
Theme park = everything is 100% streamlined and casual. You're guided along the way the entire time in a way that the developers designed for you. You can never really get off the ride that they designed for you, because it's the only way to play. Typically the only endgame of theme parks revolve around doing PvE content.
Horizon progression = instead of constantly upgrading your character's power, you're instead VERY limited in how much power you can acquire. This means that a character that's 10000 days old can pretty much never be much more powerful than a character that's 1 day old. Guild Wars 2 uses a system like this, for example.
Pretty sure theme park is just a buzzword and doesn't actually mean anything, since depending on the definition, every MMO falls under that umbrella. but horizontal progression is like, choices and stuff. Like imagine a ladder going straight up; that's vertical progression, and every rung makes you objectively stronger and more progressed as a character.
Now imagine there are several ladders side by side that you can slide over to that offer slightly different options. That's choices in gear, skill tree options, and other things you can do that make you stronger without involving level ups. Gear side-grades and such for finetuning your playstyle.
>Pretty sure theme park is just a buzzword and doesn't actually mean anything
Wrong. The opposite of theme park is a sandbox. Something like UO is the quintessential sandbox MMO. WoW is the quintessential theme park MMO.
It's a shitty term. A better term would be linear, or on-rails. Unless the theme park thing is a like a reference to the on-rails nature of progression, but that's still a more obtuse descriptor than a sandbox mmo.
>Unless the theme park thing is a like a reference to the on-rails nature of progression
It is. It's also a reference to how oldschool MMO players viewed theme park MMOs as being casual and kid friendly, like a theme park.
and in both cases is pure cope!
The hardest MMOs are all themepark MMOs.
Real life themeparks have a ton of rides that a kid wouldnt go anywhere near, in fact most adults wont
11 months ago
Anonymous
>The hardest MMOs are all themepark MMOs.
u wot m8. The hardest MMOs are all sandbox PvP-focused games.
Just because you don't know what themepark means doesn't mean the word doesn't have any meaning, moron.
Vanilla wow is not a themepark. The maps are mostly empty and samey, i.e. natural. The quests all come from one, maybe two towns and they require you to travel anywhere in the zone, or even other zones.
Modern wow is a themepark. The zones have randomly sprinkled thematic areas that feels oddly specific and localized, like camp of elementals or quillboar that is just there to prevent the zone from looking like vanilla Barrens. There's a town nearby housing all the quests involving that little area. You start a zone in one town, it gives you a handful of quests you can solve immediately (or almost) outside, after you complete all the quests (and the questline forces you to) so you move on to the camp/town that has a handful more. It's like you finish a ride in a themepark and you move on to ride the next one. And because even the zones themselves are self-contained these days and rarely, if ever, send you to another zone, even the zone itself is a ride.
Wow has NEVER had player driven content, it's all on-rails quests and dungeons and events fully designed and controlled by the devs. This is what theme park means you fricking moronic homosexual.
11 months ago
Anonymous
what an absolutely MORONIC statement and definition, if you can stretch the definition that much then every single game is a themepark because even needing to change zones to fight enemies your level can be called rails.
literally every game falls under this definition, unless you're playing something like second life or XIV in which your "player driven content" isn't actually playing the game or interacting with it in any way other than the chat system by having pretend sex with other grown ass men
11 months ago
Anonymous
>literally every game falls under this definition
How old are you? Genuine question. Because there have been plenty of non-themepark MMOs that no one would ever call themepark. UO, SWG, EVE, DAoC, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Archeage, Albion Online, etc. just to name some of the most known ones.
11 months ago
Anonymous
probably older than you, homosexual. what makes any of those magically not be a themepark under your vague as shit definition?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>what makes any of those magically not be a themepark
The fact that they are sandbox games, where the players create and drive the content, not the developers.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You are a moronic toddler, you have no idea about anything relating to mmos, have a nice day immediately you dumb fricking Black person.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>no counterargument, just seething
i accept your concession
11 months ago
Anonymous
>implying you had any argument other than "UHH MY DEFINITION IS THE RIGHT ONE"
why would you deserve any other reply Black person
11 months ago
Anonymous
Anon is right, you're the most moronic Black person ITT. You don't understand that farming dungeons and raids for reputation and emblems that you need for gear upgrades is the definition of a theme park.
11 months ago
Anonymous
WoW is a fricking themepark mmo, always was, always will be
if you want a sandbox you play shit like EVE online
11 months ago
Anonymous
>player driven content
what the frick does this even mean?
11 months ago
Anonymous
it means theres nothing to do so people just erp
11 months ago
Anonymous
yeah that is exactly what i first assumed and it looks like it was spot on.
there is no such thing as "player driven content" in a videogame, if you want to level up, or craft something, or do literally anything that actually involves interacting with the game beyond a chat room, you have to ride on some sort of rails to get there, be it grinding mobs close to your level, specific mobs that drop specific materials, etc
11 months ago
Anonymous
>what the frick does this even mean?
That players create the content. Is this a completely foreign concept to zoomers? If you want a list of games, see
>literally every game falls under this definition
How old are you? Genuine question. Because there have been plenty of non-themepark MMOs that no one would ever call themepark. UO, SWG, EVE, DAoC, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Archeage, Albion Online, etc. just to name some of the most known ones.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>namedrops a bunch of games without elaborating
you know, most people develop theory of mind before their age reaches double digits.
11 months ago
Anonymous
What kind of elaboration do you need? I just told you that the players create the content. If you actually bothered to look up any of the MMOs I just listed, and read a 60-90 second summary of them on Wikipedia, you'd know what they are like.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Because the burden of proof is on you.
I'm not about to waste any amount of time reading up every feature every MMO you namedropped has to offer to divine what you meant because your definition can encompass any and everything.
>implying you had any argument other than "UHH MY DEFINITION IS THE RIGHT ONE"
why would you deserve any other reply Black person
A definition that can encompass everything is not a definition at all. You literally sound like a leftist trying to define what a woman is.
i decided to level up a character in WoW without dying
i made content
therefore WoW is not a themepark game
Exactly this.
Anon is right, you're the most moronic Black person ITT. You don't understand that farming dungeons and raids for reputation and emblems that you need for gear upgrades is the definition of a theme park.
Samegay.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Exactly this. >quoting your own samegay post
Leave the thread and play eve for a year you dumb fricking homosexual, you are completely out of your depth
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Samegay.
I posted two times. (126) and calling you the most moronic Black person in this entire thread, which you are. Address my actual point or stop posting, homosexual.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Because the burden of proof is on you.
Okay, let me break it down incredibly simple for you then. Let's look at that list I wrote. Let's take a game like Darkfall, for example.
The game is a PvP-focused game with full loot. The developers gives you the building blocks to make your character the way you want, with whatever spells/abilities you want, and then they give you the ability to create groups and guilds, which then also gives you the ability to create bases in the world. Then they give you the ability to gather materials/ingredients from the world, and give you a crafting system where you can create armors and weapons. That's it. From that point on, the developers basically don't ever interfere with how the players can/should play.
The players are now the ones who drive and create the content. They create the rivalries between clans. They create the wars between clans. They create the politics between the clans. They create the alliances between clans. And so on, and so on. The players are never guided into being on-rails like in theme park MMOs. They don't ever have to wait for the developers to make a new dungeon/raid/whatever. They are just dropped into the sandbox and they can freely form and shape the sand in any way that they see fit.
>Vanilla wow is not a themepark
WTF? Vanilla WoW was literally what spawned the term theme park MMO, because of how casual and "on rails" it was compared to other older MMOs.
>what makes an MMO a "theme park"?
The entire game is all about railroading the player towards the newest attraction site with the world itself just being a static visual set piece.
Kids moved onto fortnite and other games, and the generation that played MMOs have jobs now and don't feel like grinding in vidya after a long day of grinding IRL.
>Is it good design when an MMO requires other players to do content?
Yes. An MMO should literally force grouping as much as possible. The problem with modern MMOs is that they attempt to make as much as possible soloable, and thus they ruin the actual MMO aspect because everyone just plays like it was a singleplayer game.
Yes, mmos used to require multiple people to do even the more mundane stuff such as just getting to the next town over without getting mogged by a few overworld monsters.
People will endlessly whine about this being a waste of their time, and those people are the reason mmos are streamlined to the point of nearly being single player games.
Dofus is better
I started out contemplating between both and I think Dofus has a larger population and has more updates despite being the 'older' of the two. Dofus also has more content and is expected to be ported to Unity practically 1:1 which will almost certainly revitalize the game significantly as it tackles two issues showing the game's age: it's poor graphics and it's performance issues.
Waven I tried it but I did not like it. It's also not really an MMO from what I've seen and tried. Dofus is a more comprehensive MMO in that it expects you to group with people to do content - of course you can get away with soloing things up a to a point.
Because they now cater to the troony audience who wants the games to be Second Life before it's a game. Only based Korea still makes MMOs that are games, but westoids are mind broken with FOMO so they trick themselves into thinking the whole genre will be fixed if it just worked how it did when they were 15.
im not paying a sub with how my current schedule is. make it f2p and ill no life your game 2 days of the week blizzard shill. t unironic pre-wod multiglad hpal, rsham, d/h/s.priest and destro lock
WoW terms. I will translate for you. >unironic = I am serious, not joking >pre-wod = before the Warlords of Draenor expansion >multiglad = several gladiator titles - earned from being high ranked in arena PvP >hpal = Holy Paladin - a healer spec and class >rsham = Restoration Shaman - a healer spec and class >d/h/s = Discipline/Holy/Shadow Priest - healer/healer/DPS >destro lock = Destruction Warlock - a DPS spec and class
Every new MMO released today is a fricking disappointment and a flop, people are sick of WoW clones and top-down MOBA shit.
It's time to make a real sandbox MMO with gameplay on par with smaller multiplayer/singleplayer games instead of being stuck in 2005.
the best mmos are fun to create new characters
every modern mmo, or classic mmo that is still online and has been updated, desperately tries to keep you playing the same character forever
Alts are fine
Being virtually forced to create an army of alts because the devs would rather give you a laundry list of meaningless chores instead of creating proper content is not.
Maplestory does this shit and I hate it.
Because MMOs were only appealing for its time during the early Internet. They haven't evolved from being a glorified chatroom with some activities and an avatar. They simply aren't good games that can stand on its own.
>They haven't evolved from being a glorified chatroom with some activities and an avatar. They simply aren't good games that can stand on its own.
this is the exact opposite of what happened
the morons who only liked them for being glorified chatrooms in the early internet, however, have never shut up about it
Instrumental play, meta-slavery, too heavy of a time sink, too big of an investment to develop. Simon Says circular arena design, lack of true player agency and freedom, theme park braindead design (24 man in FFXIV for instance). Repetitive weekly tome/currency grind, daily quests.
The video by that bald shitlib also really described many of the problems the genre (and WoW in particular) has, though it's more about how moronic and insufferable MMO players are, and how the devs have these moronic races with them, making shit as moronicly difficult as possible because everyone is autistic and has a million add-ons that tell them what to do, and waste months on learning a rote Simon Says 15 minute script.
Dofus only has one daily. Play Dofus! The daily is also unique in that you're simply tasked with turning in a preset resource for every day of the year. It's called the Almanax! And the reward is a very nice Dofus! Some people even make profit buying up the resources in advance because they know people are lazy and will just buy the resource last second!
I was reading on the wow forums to see what people were thinking of other MMO's and i couldnt help but read this in a dramatic voice and laugh >Except this is seen with the blinders on. The WoW killers were never going to take it in a one stroke beheading. The WoW killers are a crew, and their champion is on the horizon.
The WoW killer was never destined to kill wow in a literal sense, only dethrone it. Unless Blizzard for some reason decides to shut down their service it will never die.
>being this mad about misunderstanding a term players and developers have used properly for over 20 years
You should honestly consider killing yourself, I am imploring you
The magic was gone as soon as they started catering to a more casual audience.
There's literally no reason to play an MMO when you can reach max level in a week or two. How am I supposed to get attached to my character like that?
That's the problem with both FF14 and WoW, your character has absolutely 0 identity
SWTOR unironically is a better MMORPG than either of these games because the RP aspect is pretty immaculate if you're into star wars, you can be a dark jedi, you can be a pure sith -you can even betray the empire/ republic in some class stories
Not to mention even side quests are fully VA's and come with cutscenes including your character, whereas in WoW your character literally doesn't exist in the lore, how can you care about the story at that point
>MMO >good gameplay
That's a dumb argument. If I wanted to have good gameplay I wouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place. They used to thrive on player interaction, now all of that is replaced by NPCs that you have to click on to cash in your EXP.
I decided to attack Southshore with a bunch of guildies of our own free will, despite there being no benefit from doing so. In fact, such an action is bound to be detrimental as someone tags a dishonorable NPC by accident. However we will still risk this in the name of fun.
This eventually sparks a battle between both factions, which even in a best case scenario DK don't happen, is still less efficient than a battleground.
I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
>in the name of fun.
In eve you risk things for actual rewards, player-created and player-driven things that are taken away and given to you. Control over regions and their material output. There is no such thing in wow, non-blizzard catered player interactions don't give you anything at all. I just destroyed your entire argument and you will never recover from it.
>I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
Wrong. You didn't create anything. You played exactly how Blizzard designed the game. You attacked an enemy that Blizzard designed was an enemy that you could attack. If WoW had been a non-themepark sandbox game, you would have been able to attack not only your own faction, but also your own faction's NPCs.
Why can you not do this? Because it's a themepark game, and not a sandbox where you can actually create your own content.
>you would have been able to attack [...] your own faction's NPCs.
there was a debuff in vanilla that let you do this. it was a quest chain that started in a cave in 1k needles
So sandbox MMOs mean you can just take a giant shit on anyone you don't like at any time and rob them of their time and effort? Especially considering MMOs are notoriously grindy?
No fricking wonder they're all themeparks now.
>So sandbox MMOs mean you can just take a giant shit on anyone you don't like at any time and rob them of their time and effort? Especially considering MMOs are notoriously grindy?
Yes, and it was fricking glorious. Imagine some little shithead is talking absolute shit to you. Guess what, you can just kill him and steal all his shit. Then when he respawns, you can corpse camp him for hours and make his life a living hell until he finally admits defeat by logging out.
Then you put him on your PK list and share it with all your friends and guildies. Then the next time any of your friends or guildies see him, they will do the exact same to him and let him know who sent them. Being able to do things like this made people think twice before they acted like spergs in games back in the day. These days there's zero repercussions to shitheads running rampant.
Most MMO players are solo players and they should have their own content. There shouldn't be a partyfinder that funnels solo players into group content.
Albion is the only MMO that got it right. Solo players can play content where they are anonymouse and only meet other solo players.
I have decided to refuse the developer's on-rail experience and instead of leveling up, I took my level 1 female draenei to Goldshire and decided to rail every male human in the tavern with my thousand-yard futa wiener.
I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
Roleplaying in WoW is unironically the most sandbox thing you can possibly do. Congratulations, you finally found something that's actually sandbox-ish. However, WoW itself is still an on-rails themepark MMO.
you are deeply autistic.
since you really like posting that screenshot of archimonde from WC3, let me put it in a way you can hopefully understand: chopping down every tree in a WC3 campaign map for the hell of it, saving the game, and sharing that save isn't the same thing as making a custom map from scratch.
leaving the rails for a few minutes to kill an enemy that doesn't drop anything is the objective of any quest or looking behind the scenes in off-limit areas isn't player created content. people in this thread obviously mean there should be less barriers and limitations over what you can do as a player.
banding together with your friends to flush weeks of some gay's time and effort down the toilet in EVE is the best example there is
11 months ago
Anonymous
Isn't it funny how the only example of "TRUE player created content" you can bring up is being a dickwad in EVE? Again, just like in
>I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
Wrong. You didn't create anything. You played exactly how Blizzard designed the game. You attacked an enemy that Blizzard designed was an enemy that you could attack. If WoW had been a non-themepark sandbox game, you would have been able to attack not only your own faction, but also your own faction's NPCs.
Why can you not do this? Because it's a themepark game, and not a sandbox where you can actually create your own content.
and
>So sandbox MMOs mean you can just take a giant shit on anyone you don't like at any time and rob them of their time and effort? Especially considering MMOs are notoriously grindy?
Yes, and it was fricking glorious. Imagine some little shithead is talking absolute shit to you. Guess what, you can just kill him and steal all his shit. Then when he respawns, you can corpse camp him for hours and make his life a living hell until he finally admits defeat by logging out.
Then you put him on your PK list and share it with all your friends and guildies. Then the next time any of your friends or guildies see him, they will do the exact same to him and let him know who sent them. Being able to do things like this made people think twice before they acted like spergs in games back in the day. These days there's zero repercussions to shitheads running rampant.
you admit you aren't actually interested in playing a videogame, you just want to be a shithead and grief people, wasting their time in one of the most time-consuming genres of vidya out there, and, once again, it's no fricking wonder every game is a themepark now, because nobody wants to play a game with subhumans like you who made being bullied in high-school their entire personality, especially not the normies with 5 jobs, 3 wives and 50 children to take care of who have like 5 minutes a week to play your game and certainly won't fricking bother if they can lose months of progress on a whim.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>m and my friends are going to fly off into the dg of the galaxy and build out own little outpost where we can mine and make our own stuff, build up our own little base, make allies and enemies out of the other players out here
vs >I'm going to run the scripted content the devs made, then I'm going to run the scripted content the devs made, then I'll really mix it up by running the scripted content the devs made but with more people
11 months ago
Anonymous
>sandbox game: pvp focused game >themepark game: pve focused game
ok gotcha
11 months ago
Anonymous
You have quoted 2 of my posts, but I am not the guy you are currently talking to. Just thought you should know that.
I am an undead rogue. I have decided to reject the gear treadmill and live in Stranglethorn Vale of my own accord, killing every alliance player who is still in their 30s and playing hide any seek with anyone above level 50, definitely not because I have no skill and anyone capable of standing toe to toe with me will probably blow my keyboard turning ass the frick out.
I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
>re: muh pvp and full loot
There have been several new MMOs that followed this recipe. Only a handful drew enough of an audience to survive without softening death penalties, and the biggest survivor only took off because it went F2P and on mobile. Most players aren't masochists who want to grind hours of boring chores every time they die playing the fun part of your game, nevermind paying you for the "privilege."
Survival games work because the boring chores that everyone hates come at the end of the play loop, instead of the beginning, and usually involve things that aren't mandatory progression and extend beyond the death of your character, like building a huge base. Death is usually a small punishment because your investment is either easy to replace or in some broader mechanic that is harder to fully lose, and the core gameplay barely changes from beginning to end.
That's where full loot MMOs fail. Instead of fun PvP allowing you to build up from nothing after you die in PvP, you're saddled with hours of neglected, mind-numbing PvE content until you replace what you lost. The balance is usually dogshit too, making skill much less of a factor than $$$.
I have decided to swim from Wetlands to Westfall instead of taking the road and, eventually, the tram.
I have created content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark.
>I have decided to swim from Wetlands to Westfall
Is this even possible? I'm pretty sure you'd just hit the fatigue barrier like 2 minutes in when you attempt to swim west from Menethil Harbor.
i'm pretty sure you can do this as long as you stick really close to the shoreline. it's really fricking tedious because it's a fricking long way from wetlands to westfall however
you'll eventually happen upon Newman's Landing on the way too.
>i'm pretty sure you can do this
You're right, I found this video. Apparently it actually is possible, but you need to touch land regularly to stop the fatigue.
Nobody talks in MMOs anymore. Any time you read a story about someone having fun in an MMO, it all stems from a random interaction between strangers. Everyone's on discord now with their friends and those moments don't happen naturally anymore.
Yesterday I corpse camped a guy in tanaris and he eventually logged his horde to whisper me that he would kill my entire family. It was a pretty funny social interaction.
No one except for no lifers care about MMOs. They are their replacement for any kind of social life. My boss and his online friends play hardcore WoW. The only reason he plays it? He's bored and wants to talk to his friends. The second that he finds someone to actually talk to, or a different game that catches his interest, it will get dropped like a sack of shit and he won't talk about it anymore. This is why MMOs are dying. The days where chatting with friends in a virtual environment and bragging to each other about your sick loot doesn't have the same appeal when you have much better games that also do the same shit, but aren't tucked behind hundreds of hours of non sense grind.
morons like you have been saying this stupid shit for years and it's why morons like you are doomed to playing garbage like Darkfall and Mortal Online. At least Albion dips its toes in, but even they know you don't go full moron and appeal to homosexuals.
Kids are unironically the main selling audience for games.
Mmos especially free ones were where most kids spent their days around the 2000's. Grinding levels, meeting people online, gaining communities outside of being bullied at school.
Small profit margins but kept the servers online and forums busy.
Newer generation of kids have short attention spans, need instant gratification and actually play games to meet their friend online.
Roblox, Valorant and the other top few competitive games are all free. They don't take lot to maintain as expectations are low.
>competitive
That's the real key. MMOs are watered down, no expression of skill or any impressive mechanics whether it's PvE or PvP. Why the frick would I play a MMO when I could play Elden Ring or a fighting game? Getting a sick outplay in a polished game is way more impressive than some clip with garbage combat and where your gear contributed at least half of the highlight.
MMOs never really shook off the image of the neckbeard no-life, in fact they leaned into it more with the FOMO and chores that make it a second job. Whenever I see my friends enter a MMO binge, I assume they're going through a rut and I've always been right. It's a dead-end genre.
>but as of now they are niche market.
Lost Ark and New World both reached +1 million concurrent players on Steam. It's not a niche market at all, it's just that every single MMO is fricking trash.
>Lost Ark and New World both reached +1 million concurrent players on Steam. It's not a niche market at all, it's just that every single MMO is fricking trash.
The games made by Amazon that were shilled nonstop on Twitch, a platform owned by Amazon?
>The games made by Amazon that were shilled nonstop on Twitch, a platform owned by Amazon?
What does that have to do with the numbers they got on Steam?
Lost shart and poo world's success isn't indicative of an interest in MMOs, it's just showing how effective Amazon's marketing team is. Hell half the discussion on new world were from unironic zoomers admitting that it was their first mmo and they only picked it up because their streamers were playing it. FOMO twitchbait streamerslop games show up all the time, remember fall guys, dark and darker?
Because you become miserable if you play them. They eat up all your time and you can't make money out of it because no one gives a shit. No one will watch you stream WoW or ff14.
I hate mmos they ruined my school years and after a domino effect i went through a lot of shit as an adult, poorgay, homeless, neet...
>Because you become miserable if you play them
Some of my most fun and happy moments in vidya were in MMOs.
>I hate mmos they ruined my school years and after a domino effect i went through a lot of shit as an adult, poorgay, homeless, neet...
Oh, it was projection.
Dude i am playing this one and it is not good... >9 year development >mobile game devs >insane menu bloat >mmo quest bloat >abyssmal weeb writing(especially character), only decent character is jack >abyssmal gacha rates >not well thought out combat(i really hoped it would be like BNS) >class imbalance is insane(melee pointless, mage deals 3x dmg no sweat) >already has auto gather hackers(though all of em english)
I could live with the menu bloat and bad writing, if the combat least was good, but it is just action slop without strategy or thought.
except social media is garbage. spend 5 minutes on twitter and you'll reach this conclusion
no, the real culprit is the great normalgay invasion of the internet of 2008
Amazon should stop buying publishing rights and instead just outsource a asiatic studio to make another one of their flashy combat mmos but WITHOUT the garbage pay to win aspects. A modern BDO with the monetization of New World would be a smash hit. But it relies on 2 things >asiatics making a mmo without insane grind and p2w (impossible) >amazon not censoring shit (maybe possible if their backs are against the wall)
Amazon is making a Lord of the Rings MMO next. They already got their hands full with publishing Blue Protocol + Throne and Liberty + some new Tomb Raider game, and then making their own LotR MMO.
Because it isn't 1997 and the idea of a persistent world with 100s of other players is no longer novel. The genre has also been aroudn long enough for the average player to see the cracks and limitations of the genre as it is, and none of the current developers are taking any risks to move it in the right direction to encourage what made it fun in the first place: community in a living world.
In fact they are doing the opposite. MMOs nowadays are just dungeonfinders. You are no longer doing content with your friend and community that requires communication and alliances, you paired with strangers you will never see again to beat streamlined, pitiful content.
It's actually incredible. Technology has moved forward and every modern game is more than capable of supporting hundreds and hundreds of players in the same area without a single issue.
Meanwhile, what are "massively" "multiplayer" games doing? >WoW
A handful of people in the same dungeon. Raids with 10-25 people. Shits its pants handling ~40 players killing a raid boss.
XIV: 4-8 people. Solo dungeons with NPCs. No outdoor content.
Neither of these games should be called an MMO and it's embarrassing they are the biggest faces of the genre.
100% 14 is basically the only good recent singleplayer FF, but it is a terrible MMO and doesn't give you any of the feeling you woudl get from MUDS like Gemstone/ Dragonarealms or MMOs like UO, EQ, FFXI, or launch WoW.
no it fricking isn't
the story is just generic JRPG weebshit that inevitably degenerates into the indomitable human spirit vs the cruel indifference of the universe
XIV isn't an MMO, or an RPG. it's a worthless VN with a Second Life tier ERP postgame. that "game" should not exist
I'm the type of no-lifer who should adore MMOs, but despite being a friendless loser, they're too grindy for me to find them enjoyable. I'm in that weird spot where I'm not normal enough to hang with normalgays or find any enjoyment in the shit they do, but I'm also not nerdy enough for nerd shit.
oh don't worry your pretty little head, you might be a friendless loser and not normal but i'm sure you're still too normal to fit into the freaks that enjoy MMOs these days too
see:
Both suck and are full of troonys at this point. Peak WoW was a different game than the shitshow it is now.
>let me tell you why FFXIV is better than WoW >*ahem* >da trooooons
>1 million player, barely 10% of peak wow >massive brand behind it >most people just sit in a city and shit up the chat 24/7 because the game has no progression
you gays are delusional. if i wanted shit like that i would play twitter like so many braindead gays do.
your average modern day WoW player spends most of his time steamrolling old content on 50 alts for a 1% drop chance mount. these runs are very fast and 10 in an hour is easily hit unless the player is smart enough to throttle them with longer raids
you are wrong. plain and simple.
They've been dying for like 15 years now
they aren't, it's just ff14 is so much better than every other one that it's killing the rest
One thing I learned from all this FFXVI shitposting is that FFXIV doesn't actually draw in that much compared to their other publishing ventures. Some anon keeps dumping their sales numbers in other threads, and online revenue isn't that much.
cope
Cope with what? XIV isn't even as big as WoW was at its peak.
>sale numbers
I doubt there are any but pls share them with us you falseflagging troony
It's enough to keep SE afloat despite taking constant flops in other endeavors
ff14 is singlehandedly keeping squeenix alive and this is no exaggeration
lol
lmaoooooooooooooooooooo
Bro you posted absolute cringe
how many levels of cope are you on
ff14 is so good that you need a program to remove the artificial latency it adds to every interaction
When will you stop pretending ff14 is good? I got scammed by you fricks, the game was a huge waste of time. The story bever got good, the global cooldown + latency never felt right.
XIV isn't better but at least you're not giving money to Commiefornia when you pay for its sub.
No. FFXIV is just the least shitty of the shitty, dying genre.
>least shitty
>gay weeaboo image
yup its a moron
FFXIV doesn't even qualify as an MMORPG
>least shitty
>has built-in latency to every action and horribly tiny, instanced maps, slowest combat in the genre
huh?
List of MMOs better than FF14 currently
> WoW
> ESO
> SWTOR
> GW2
> Runescape
No one cares about your tranime peadophile simulator no VA 2.5sec GCD bullshit
>WoW
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
>ESO
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
>SWTOR
maybe if you're a really huge star wars fan
>GW2
no
>Runescape
macroing simulator
and i don't think ff14 is that much better than any of these, a polished turd is still a turd.
real mmos don't exist anymore because le hecking gaymurz have GROWN UP! WE DON'T HAVE TIME BRO WE JUST DON'T HAVE TIME! I NEED TO PAY AND GET BOOSTED TO ENDGAME!
the average "gamer" has gotten used to this moronic fricking cycle of themepark on-rails levelling > RAID RAID RAID RAID PARSE PARSE PARSE DILATE DILATE DILATE PAY TO BOOST 5 CHARACTERS TO MAX LEVEL that was propagated by WoW in the first place.
prime example is the moronic avatargay in this thread.
you fricking zoomers need to shut the frick up instead of voicing your moronic opinions, you werent there for the golden age
>1 million player, barely 10% of peak wow
>massive brand behind it
>most people just sit in a city and shit up the chat 24/7 because the game has no progression
you gays are delusional. if i wanted shit like that i would play twitter like so many braindead gays do.
>let me tell you why FFXIV is better than WoW
>*ahem*
>da trooooons
Both suck and are full of troonys at this point. Peak WoW was a different game than the shitshow it is now.
Because why grind virtual numbers all day in a game when they can grind virtual numbers all day in a social media
there's something to this. But overall, mmos were much comfier than social media
Turns out having a socond job with a subscription fee is not fun at all.
they copied WoW instead of being unique because investors wanted some of the millions player base.
Nobody has time to spend the kind of time a classic MMO required anymore. As a result, we have all these ultra dumbed down weird abominations that are pretty much on life support. I have no clue how the genre hasn't completely died yet.
>Nobody has time to spend the kind of time a classic MMO required anymore
Factually wrong - with lots of jobs going for work-from-home methodology, people have been gaining a couple hours of free time that would've been otherwise used in commuting to work. So, people have more time than before but aren't spending on MMOs.
>inb4: what else are they spending it on then?
well i have no fricking idea Black person
because people used MMOs as social media
now there's enough social media so they don't have to login to game for socialization
What if i don't have any social media accounts but want to socialize? I struggle hard to make friends and being normal in general.
>I dont have social media
but you're here posting anon
>but you're here posting anon
I don't see any updoots, nor emojis or people playing videogames. Stop lying.
Unironically too much optimization of the game system. You no longer need to walk the land and party up with whoever you find there to farm mobs or dungeons, it's all automatic group finders / solo quests give more XP than mindlessly farming mobs.
the social aspect was novel in the early and mid 00's but theyre nothing special anymore. Also every online game has a forever grind system now.
>Make a game based around the idea that you'd be playing hundreds or thousands of other people
>Make grouping completely optional and allow solo gameplay
morons are making them, that's why.
>too much qol, listening to lazy people that want more and more qol each time
>killing pvp
>discord
>catering to the masses
>passion is gone and it's only about making more and more money
I dont want to spend all of my time and pay monthly for one game
Because interacting with people online isn't cool anymore, it's not a rare gimmick that only a few games do.
This is actually correct. Removal from social interactions is part of the point these days.
Every MMO turns into a sperg optimization fest that takes all the fun out of the game
I feel like people don't have enough free time to actually play them anymore. Not an MMO but if im going to do a grinding game it has to be something like Destiny or Diablo where I can jump in, do meaningful progress in an hour and jump off.
WoW hasn't kept up. An expansion where you just do dungeons and have smaller, mini raids would be successful. This time gating, fifty currencies, hour long dungeons and five hour long raids is just a luxury no one can afford.
MMOs are supposed to be a social experience but they no longer are, for a few reasons.
>people have been trained not to communicate at all in games because you run the risk of getting b& if you offend some thin-skinned homosexual, even if you don't say or do anything offensive at all
>the games removed any reason to talk to other players by going way too hard on QOL and making everything as convenient as possible (used to have to find people on your server to do dungeons together, now you just join a queue and get grouped with people from various servers who might as well be bots since you'll never see any of them again)
>everyone just communicates on Discord instead of in-game
have been trained not to communicate at all in games because you run the risk of getting b& if you offend some thin-skinned homosexual, even if you don't say or do anything offensive at all
It's not the same when you can't call your tank a useless homosexual for pulling too much, your healer a worthless sissy for focusing heals on the DPS or the single target DPS a moronic brainlet because he was focusing on adds and not the main boss.
>you run the risk of getting b& if you offend some thin-skinned homosexual, even if you don't say or do anything offensive at all
The "thin-skinned homosexual" is usually a grifter or mean girl that can exploit the report system. I don't remember the last time meeting someone who was unironically thin-skinned, they would cry crocodile tears before talking in "private" on how they owned said homosexual.
Perfect multiplayer reporting system
>you report player
>it automatically blocks that player for you and you for them
>if you reported them for profanity or slurs it re-enables your profanity filter (you can still disable it again, but it's a reminder that you are consenting to see bad words if you turn off the filter you fricking moron)
>no further action
they'll just start reporting for other reasons when they get offended
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I NEED TO SAY THE N WORD
white "people" moment
>NOOOOOOOOOOO I'M OFFENDED BY WORDS ON A SCREEN I CAN EASILY AVOID WITH BLOCKS AND FILTERS, SAVE ME TERMS OF SERVICE!
The internet was much better before homosexuals like (You) had access to it
likewise. I remember Ganker before your kind shit it up
People have been calling each other homosexuals and Black folk and morons here since before you were born, dipshit.
yes but only since the chinkmoot/RapeApe era began have all your Stormer types infested the place. I remember the rori board, newbie.
Yea, I bet you remember the dinosaurs too
I remember this:
and I'm kinda related to one of these two guys.
says the absolute newbie posting wojakshit
go back to twitter
You are not human if you aren't White.
>incel immediately enters thread to have a tantrum
Why are you like this?
quit your b***hin' bunkertroony Black person
Yeah man, because except for white people all the other races love Black folk so much.
>used to have to find people on your server to do dungeons together
spamming "looking for tank" for 30 minutes nonstop and having to cancel the entire run because your healer left for any reason was never, fricking ever, fun
No, that wasn't fun, but reinviting those same people to future groups, and becoming friends with them, was fun.
Worsening online communities which leads to lower quality interactions followed by casualization in an attempt to draw more players. Usually the casualization works for a limited time, like how WoW or FF14 had player peaks at their most casual points in history, but its always a straight line downward from there.
Filtered by the inability to socialize. Should have joined a guild or had people you played with consistently. MMO design pandering to casual players who can't socialize is what killed them. Those who got filtered will never like MMOs so there was no reason to pander to people like you.
>MMO design pandering to casual players who can't socialize is what killed them. Those who got filtered will never like MMOs
This exactly.
Modern mmos are designed for people that hate mmos, it's why they're virtually single player games now.
just communicates on Discord instead of in-game
this is actually what is killing MMO's (and online multiplayer games (and the internet)).
im playing XIV and having an absolute blast and decided that i want to raid, and the absolute DEMAND for me to join these Discord cliques is maddening. when I played WoW in the 2000's I didn't have to deal with this shit and interacting with randos was way WAY more fun.
doesn't help that said Discord is also unironically used to create little communities from within the game to ward off other players intentionally either because they can't ban you ingame when you're not even offending anyone.
normalgays ruined everything
the draw of mmorpgs was never the ABILITY to communicate with people. people could do and were doing that way before mmorpgs with online chatrooms. mmorpgs also started dying way before discord was even a thing so stop blaming discord lol. the draw of mmorpgs was that the gameplay was amplified by other players; nobody except the most desperate of people ever played mmorpgs because they couldnt talk to online strangers anywhere else
the discords stemming from an mmorpg are also rarely "secret clubs," they're usually just guild-based servers which you can easily join by just joining the guild. oftentimes you dont even have to do that cause guildies will invite the people they party with even if theyre not in the guild
i'm not buying the whole "discord/other social media killed mmorpgs" thing. it's just stupid and has no basis in reality. if it was as simple as that then mmorpgs wouldnt have started dying in the first place because there will always be swathes of people starved for human interaction who would gladly search for it in mmorpgs
Dunno, XIV sucked up all the casuals into what is a single player second-life tier chatroom
Terrible gameplay. Pressing 1 2 3 4 and playing the floor is lava isn't fun. Quests are usually barebones. The main appeal of a MMO is the millions of players you get to play with. In most MMOs this part is completely lost when 90% of the content is you running through a dungeon with only 3 others. You could put a hub area in a call of duty game and pass it off as a MMO if the bar is set that low. The UI
is almost always cluttered and ugly to look at
I'm too terrified of the people I might encounter playing online games these days. It's very uncomfy.
MMOs are made for homosexuals and trannies (same thing) exclusively now
That expansion not only had the literally fricking frogs gay, they had flamboyant gay eco warrior dragons who you help adopt a baby duck to raise together, a butch lesbian and her literal moron cro magnon centaur lover, a wheelchair dragon, and my fricking favorite a gay centaur starcross lovers wedding you help the two propose to one another, get the shit together for their wedding, and then attend as a long ass quest chain.
Anyone, ANYONE in that entire expansion who was stated to have a significant other was trans or gay.
Because Devs imitated WoW instead of Guild wars 1
>Instanced zones
I
SLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
GW isnt technically an MMO because it's 3D ARPG maps combined with a magic the gathering build system, though maybe that's why its better than WoW. I wonder why no other company ever tried making a clone considering
>ARPG's are more popular than ever
>Magic the gathering is more popular then ever
>There is no competition
the gathering is more popular then ever
Anon, there was a MtG ARPG that bombed super hard. Considering shit like Pinkertons, $1000 illegal proxies and the New Pyrexian/LotR shitshows, actual genuine interest is in an all time low.
>Magic the gathering is more popular then ever
lol
Why did XIV FAIL
Why did they LOSE
>be disabled person
>play game to forget about your daily problem
>LOOK THIS CHARACTER IS DISABLED JUST LIKE YOU IN REAL LIFE, REMEMBER YOUR INABILITY TO WALK, RELATE TO THIS CHARACTER NOW, YOU CAN NEVER WALK NEVER
>be disabled for life and bound to a wheelchair until exoskeletons are a thing
>have to endure the shame and very real drawbacks of disability
>play a MMO where you get to be a hale fantasy character with functioning limbs and perform exciting feats of strength and heroism
>reach this npc, a magical creature in a high fantasy setting where his own kind use restoring green wizardry as well as time magic to reverse mortal wounds, regrow limbs and undo any form of magic, restoring their own state to prime condition
>Nah Ill stay broken and bound to my wheelchair
not a single fricking disabled person would say this on this planet or that fantasy setting
for the sake of representation blizzard created one of the most disgustingly stupid and horrible npcs you can think of, and the twitter trannies applaud them for it
why did he use shaman magic to heal his legs?
>use the same wheelchair model from 10 years ago
>be disabled
>see a character just like me in a wheelchair in a game
>it's actually a magical wheelchair that floats over steps and doesn't get stuck
homosexual genre
Because gameplay has to be tied around varying internet speeds, so you'll never find an MMO with combat like DMC or Bayonetta. You're forced to make cooldown-based combat systems which are inherently more dull and become monotonous more quickly than action-based combat. Thus, skill is taken out of the equation and replaced with memorization. The main appeal of MMO gaming in the early-to-mid 2000s was presenting the player with a boundless world while intertwining social interaction with people from across the globe. Every game nowadays is open-world - which dilutes the efficacy of that first trait - and riddled with social systems - which dilutes the second. Thus, MMOs no longer present something new, interesting, or unique.
Dragon's Dogma Online tried to go the action oriented route. It looks very moronic but I feel like they really had something here
Take note this game was Japan exclusive which is why it didn't suffer as much from ping issues as the global MMOs do
I'm still upset we never got this in the west.
I feel like gameplay in mmo is overly complex. Usually if the game is complicated, requires you to learn the systems, optimize chains of actions and abilities and such, it comes with some payoff. With an MMO I feel like you learn all that complex shit just to kind of stand there and hit the enemy exactly like in every hack'n'slash with a single button.
There's a huge disproportion between the amount of input, and the actual actions it results in. In every other game you could do stuff like beating the enemy, healing your teammates with a press of a button, and then on the top of that, if you really get good at the game, you can pull off some amazing stuff. But in an MMO you put all that effort just to do ordinary stuff. That's their drawback from a purely gameplay perspective.
What would happen to wowgays if they shut it down right now?
>free to play shit
>dailies
>microtransactions in a buy to play/sub game
>people b***h if it's not like WoW
>people b***h if it is like WoW
>people want PvP
>wait not like that
>people want hardcore shit
>wait not like that (looking at you, Wildstargays)
because they're all the same recycled bullshit that makes you dependent on playerbase to enjoy them
>makes you dependent on playerbase to enjoy them
This has not be true for like 15 years. And why the frick would you play a genre who's main selling point is playing with others in a large world if you don't want to interact with people?
The transmog
internet 2.0 eventually killed it
hoisted by its own petard
I hate french "people" so much
>Full of useless busywork
>no one talks anymore
>no one talks anymore
Easy access to outside of game communities like discord really ruined the in game ones.
>no one talks anymore
Well as other anons have pointed out, there's so much QoL in MMOs these days that there is zero reason to talk
>Need people for a dungeon, have the game find them for you or post a listing in the group/party finder
>Need an item or piece of gear, go to the server wide marketplace where players put gear up for sale
>Need to go to the other side of the map, either teleport there, turn on auto-walk whilst on a flying mount or run there with zero resistance, since there are no penalties for dying
>Mobs are so useless and weak now that they might as well not exist and the only real function they serve is too aggro players at the most inopportune time and cancel the NPC interaction or stand next to quest NPCs, forcing you to engage with them (looking at you FFXIV)
Even when you have a reason to talk, like downtime or the opportunity to use a non-conventional solution no one wants to talk. Feels like streamlining all the interaction out of the genre is a symptom rather than the sickness.
True. The internet is also a very different place, why talk or try anything unconventional when you can watch Youtube/Twitch/Netflix, look up a guide, talk to your friends in discord, read a comic/manga, browse social media, etc.
Because they're the opposite of gaming. There's no platforming no level design no puzzles no dialogues or characters and no story.
And even if there are it's dishonest and out of place slapped on content because behind all of that is the core mmo concept which is a barren world without any player interaction. You click on a monster, kill it while speaking to a friend about your day over TeamSpeak.
>MMOs dont have level design, dialogue, characters or story
whats it like being literally moronic
>He thinks any of it suffices
You tell me
Try gw2 and come back
The core appeal of MMOs was the radical idea that you could socialize with people, but on the internet. But these days social media lets you do that without paying a sub.
idk but, I just resubbed to swtor. Last time I played was in 2014. Its population feels the same as it was back then except the difference is that the market is fricked now.
They're fine, it's just that the only MMO people play anymore is FF14
Everyone who plays MMOs consolidated into that one because well, it's the best one
Because gaming addicts would rather grind gacha and even worse MMR in shitty matchmade games than grind characters in RPGs.
going online and playing with other people isn't novel anymore like the early 2000s
MMOs were dying 10 years ago. They're dead already.
They’re made for trannies and Black folk now. /thread
Western mmos die due to failing to get with the times and refusing to innovate.
Japanese mmos die because while innovative, they resort to gacha trash, F2P and gated content.
Korean mmos die because while they lead in innovation and horizontal progression, they're a grind and usually p2w.
grinding isn't fun and never was. you only thought it was because it coincided with online communities.
because theyre only made by koreans nowadays, and koreans are barely human, instead making a job that you have to pay to do
Maplestory is funny with that, especially KMS.
>"LOL LOOK AT THOSE POORgayS PLAYING ON REBOOT"
>"NOOOOOOO, WHY DO THEY GET TO HAVE BETTER GEAR AND MORE CUBES THAN US????? I SPENT 30,000,000 WON MAKING MY CHARACTERS"
>recently announced that they'll be fricking with the mob hp and xp rates, screwing over late-game progression
T-t-thanks
> Sacrificed all sense of adventure for muh gear scores
Because it's a stagnant genre in a time where there are guides for everything (removing all of the mystery) and people demand instant gratification or they leave (removing the need to socialize). To accommodate modern gamers MMOs have become sterile theme park rides.
They aren't dying.
They are being murdered.
Murdered by shitty developers.
>shitty developers
yeah it certainly isn't the greedy executives pushing for insane timelines on limited budgets.
It's both. Even if you removed all the MTX, level boosts and all that other shit, modern MMOs would still be garbage.
so you've never actually worked in corporate and you're talking out your ass.
You're delusional if you think corporate fricking off and being less moronic would automatically make modern MMOs any better, these games are fricked at their core.
why do you think they're not innovating? The fact that your first instinct was to blame the developers shows you don't know jack shit about PLM
Again, you are delusional. I would rather MMOs regress to how they used to be than have any modern developer try to "innovate". Why would I have any expectations from people who promote single-player shit in MMORPGs? They have already cultivated fan bases who inherently dislikes MMORPGs, why would I blindly have faith in them because corporate took the wieners out of their ass?
lmao you're talking out both sides of your tract now
>hurr they don't innovate
>durr innovation bad
frick off ya dumb c**t
When did I ever complained about modern MMOs not innovating? You alright bro?
Look at the abundance of indie games, MMOs included, a lack of corporate does not automatically ensure quality. Like I said, these games are inherently shit at their core.
because every mmo is littered with whales and moronic subhumans and devs always cave to their moronic requests
We're talking about a genre where almost all of them have folded over the past two decades
>have great memories of MMOs when I was younger
>friend asks me what my favorite MMO endgame was
>come to the realization that I just jumped MMOs without actually doing much beside being casual and chatting in them
I'm beginning to believe that the red tinted glasses accusers might have a semi valid point.
Loved me some Mabinogi though.
Too many MMOs seem to make sure players don’t have any FOMO make make all of the players/classes/jobs way too interchangeable and it makes most MMOs feel entirely too similar. Wouldn’t want to healers to be unable to fight enemies solo so we need to give them attack abilities. Wouldn’t want the DPS classes to be unable to solo so they need some defensive cool downs or welfare healing so they don’t have to sit and recover between kills. Don’t want the tanks to take forever to kill shit either so normal enemies are all weak as frick.
Older games like Ragnarok Online made healers weak as shit but gave them the ability to blow up undead, then implemented dungeons with tons of undead so they could do SOMETHING solo but still benefit from partying up. Potions were a thing but they weighed a lot and were kind of expensive so merchants could supply them to others at a discount while still making a profit for themselves. You couldn’t fast travel all over the place without an acolyte warping you there but even they couldn’t do it without a material component. Crafters were the only way you could get elemental weapons for a while and before that mages/archers with elemental arrows were really the only way to exploit elemental weaknesses. Lots of mechanics that gave specific jobs very real advantages over others and promoted working together much more than “you need any combination of the very interchangeable damage/tank/healer jobs for this quest” shit we keep getting now.
gee, why doesn't anyone want to play a boring leveling treadmill simulator filled to the fricking brim with microtransaction and subscriptions wrapped around some archaic tab target + hotbar spam """gameplay """ with a constant push for less emphasis on player interaction
what a mystery, man
I'm tired of tab target
I'm tired of theme parks
I'm tired of gacha
I'm tired of pay2win
I'm tired of the leveling content not mattering and having no effort put into it
I'm tired of feeling like an unstoppable force and the game on autoplay until max level
I'm tired of the game "beginning" at max level
I'm tired of every feature focusing on "quality of life" (read: further casualizing the game)
I'm tired of being the chosen one
I'm tired of the company running the game ignoring any and all problems until it financially explodes in their face because they care more about short term profits than the long term health of the game
I could keep going on.
I want to like mmos again, I really do, but I just can't accept 99.9% of the shit today.
Perhaps blue protocol will be the one, but it's being published by amazon games in the west and they've already fricked up so bad that it's releasing a year later than every other region so yeah.
what about blue protocol looks any different?
Extremely anime, real time combat designed by people from the same company that made the tales of, code vein and god eater games, a mix of high fantasy and future tech, gear upgrading is done almost exclusively through crafting, and did I mention it's extremely anime?
>real time combat
isnt it basically the same as other mmo's tho?
big enemy attacks are broadcast on the ground with red shapes you stay out of
8/9 skills have cooldowns, most pretty lengthy
it looks like a flashier, slightly smoother guild wars 2
mmo tryhards like to pretend their gear based game is actually skill based so they get super excited when a game releases with all the tab target combat replaced with every skill being an aoe.
>it's being published by amazon games
We all know Blue Protocol is doomed.
>blue protocol
>animu
made me google
The MMO genre is about to be more alive than it has been in the last decade.
>Blizzard survival game (Semi-MMO ala Rust/Ark, hundreds of players per server)[2024/2025]
>Throne and Liberty (Lineage 2 spiritual successor, PvP focus) [Oct 2023]
>Lord of the Rings MMO - (Third age, Amazon Games) [????]
>Chrono Odyssey (Korean action combat) [Late 2023 or 2024]
>Pax Dei (ex-EVE devs, fantasy sandbox w/ territorial control) [????]
>Tarisland (Chinese WoW) [Late 2023]
>Warhammer MMO 1 (ex-CoH/CoV devs + NetEase, likely WH40K) [????]
>Warhammer MMO 2 (Age of Sigmar, Nexon) [????]
>Archeage 2 [2024?]
>Zenimax Online MMO (No information, +200 devs) [????]
>Aion 2 (PvP focus w/ some PvE) [2024?]
>Night Crows (1000 player PvP battles) [Late 2023?]
>Corepunk (Isometric MMO ala LoL/DotA) [Likely 2024]
>Palia (Casual MMO. Minecraft+Farmville w/ Fortnite graphics) [????]
>Project D (Spiritual Dragon Nest sequel, w/ open world) [Likely 2024]
>Blue Protocol (Semi-MMO. 30 per zone, 200 per town) ala Tower of Fantasy/Genshin Impact) [Late 2023]
>Ashes of Creation (Archeage/Lineage PvP, EQ/WoW PvE, territorial control/city building/crafting) [2025/2026?]
>Riot MMO (No real information) [2025 or beyond]
>Dune: Awakening (By Funcom. Description says "THOUSANDS of players") [2024?]
>Playable Worlds (No information) [????]
>Profane (Sandbox. Valheim w/ PvP) [2024/2025?]
>Starkeepers (Sandbox. Territorial control, city building) [????]
>Wayfinder (Semi-MMO. PvE dungeons w/ loot farm) [Late 2023?]
>Soulframe (Semi-MMO. Developers of Warframe) [Probably 2025/2026]
>Ashfall (Post-apocalyptic, The Division-style) [2024?]
>BitCraft (Sandbox. One big procedurally generated world. City building/crafting) [Maybe 2024]
>Project LLL (The Division/Warframe mix. Open world PvE+PvP) [2024]
>Project ER (Large-scale siege PvP. Territorial control, seamless world) [????]
>RF Project (Mechs, open world, 3 faction RvR ala DAoC) [????]
If there's not a single MMO on that list that you'd at least find intriguing, then the MMO genre is probably just not for you.
Throne and Liberty is already a flop. Pax Dei and Ashes of Creation are the only two noteworthy MMOs in that list.
>Pax Dei and Ashes of Creation are the only two noteworthy MMOs in that list.
Here's the actual noteworthy ones that will be high profile and have chances of succeeding:
Blizzard's survival MMO
Amazon's LotR MMO
Chrono Odyssey
Archeage 2
Zenimax Online's MMO
Ashes of Creation
RIOT's MMO
>Amazon's LotR MMO
shieeeeeeeeeeeet
>Chrono Odyssey
This will be the next Throne and Liberty, initially looks cools, is absolute trash when players get their hands on it.
As for the LoTR MMO, I have no hope in that shit after New World
Amazon have said that New World was fricked up due to them having to rework the game last minute and having to use the shitty ass Lumberyard engine. For this next MMO they will use a "next-gen version" of their previous Azoth engine.
>Amazon have said that New World was fricked up due to them having to rework the game last minute
Because they're moronic and reworked the entire game based off private play sessions, which included e-celebs. The game was meant to be an open-world, faction based PvP MMO, not another fricking themepark cesspool
>The game was meant to be an open-world, faction based PvP MMO
I remember playing it when it was like Rust. It was fun as frick to me, but it was also a gigantic grief fest, so that's probably why they reworked it.
I wonder why shit like Rust and DayZ work, whilst PvP oriented MMOs always get shit canned. Anyway, an MMO being purely about PvP is kind of dumb, you need PvE too, attract casuals or crafter-gather players to inhabit the world and have a working economy. New World just went way too far and made PvP completely optional and designed the entire game around PvE
A PvP focused MMO would never work. Especially if they poured a lot of money into it. They could've never turned a profit with the budget they had if they had stuck to their original vision
It's a bitter pill to swallow for some.
Every time it gets tried it immediately turns into a nonstop gank fest with the result being the persons getting griefed quitting.
It's a self destructive cycle in which the winner at the end of the game is the only one left playing, who then quits himself because there's no one left to curb stomp.
It's why most wow servers have 99%/.1% faction splits.
>It's why most wow servers have 99%/.1% faction splits.
WoW servers have faction imbalance simply for population reasons, not because of PvP. Why play on servers where you can only play with 50% of the playerbase, when you can play on servers where you can play with 99% of it instead?
No its entirely because of PvP
ratio matters for PvP, not PvE. PvE is just a matter of reaching the critical mass of players to be lively at any given time, which you can easily do for both factions on a given server
but even if you have plenty of players, if youre outnumbered 2:1 or worse people will start leaving and that snowballs
the split is almost solely because every serious raider has gone horde for the last 15 years for racials, alliance was also seen as a bunch of gays
horde racials were equalized in WoD and have been worse since Legion
Nelf and Dwarf are far and away the best and have been for years now
>alliance was also seen as a bunch of gays
because they are. They simply wont play the game, so people went horde where you have raiders instead of rpers
doesn't matter that they equalized it, everyone serious about raiding was already playing horde which forced every new player to also go horde, continuing to skew the ratio until alliance had like 5% of groups forming. unless blizz provided unlimited free faction swaps it would never have been solved
solution was to put a gun to alliancegays skulls and make them actually play the game
instead of handing out void elves for solo content make them clear m+
why would they when RPers pay for every mount and weekly race swaps for their multiple orgy accounts, they're literally blizzard's cash cows
>No its entirely because of PvP
It's not.
>ratio matters for PvP, not PvE
I literally just explained to you why it matters a frickton for PvE. Why do you think Blizzard have been working so hard to implement cross-server + cross-faction guilds, M+, and raiding?
No, you didnt.
You dont need 100% of the players on a server to fill your groups. You need 4 people for a dungeon and 9 for a raid. Once you can comfortably and consistently fill you groups, more players does frick all.
But when you have the opposite faction ganking you even with a full group youre going to leave the server. When you keep losing tags to the other faction, youre going to get angry and leave the server. Its 100% about PvP
>You dont need 100% of the players on a server to fill your groups
You don't NEED it, but why wouldn't you want it? The more players you have, the more lively the server is for whatever activity you want to do.
>But when you have the opposite faction ganking you even with a full group youre going to leave the server
Are you completely unaware that world PvP in WoW is completely non-existent and has been for +5 years by now? There's a thing called War Mode that's basically a global PvP toggle, meaning that 90% of the WoW playerbase has it toggled off permanently. PvP servers are a thing of the past.
>You don't NEED it, but why wouldn't you want it?
Because it costs money? If I can already fill my groups easily I lose money for no practical gain in moving servers
>world PvP in WoW is completely non-existent and has been for +5 years by now?
Server trends were set far before that. A balanced server wont die out because its not 99:1. The servers were totally lopsided far before warmode, but theyre not going to randomly fix themselves now that one faction has fallen too low
>The servers were totally lopsided far before warmod
Yes, you are LITERALLY contradicting yourself. You said that server imbalances were due to PvP. Are you a schizo? Do you actually even play WoW?
PvP existed before warmode you moron
back then, people would leave servers for being slightly lopsided and it would snowball
Now servers are just stagnant because theres no correcting force
Tell me when you last played WoW. What year was it?
>deflecting
yeah just take the L and leave moron
When youre running a dungeon it doesnt matter how many opposite faction players are technically on your server, because they arent in your dungeon. Its that simple
You can just admit that you likely haven't played WoW for more than a decade, and you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Imagine unironically attempting to say that the server faction imbalances are due to PvP. Jesus christ, you are clueless.
>When youre running a dungeon it doesnt matter how many opposite faction players are technically on your server, because they arent in your dungeon
Exactly, you are proving my point. Why would you want your server to be anything but a 99/1 split? You are never going to interact with the other faction in any way. They are just taking up population on your server that could instead be on your own faction and maximize your potential population for groups/guilds. People realized this and that's why almost every single WoW server became like this.
>Imagine unironically attempting to say that the server faction imbalances are due to PvP.
it was
>Why would you want your server to be anything but a 99/1 split
the point is that for PvE the split is irrelevant
>You are never going to interact with the other faction in any way.
In PvE no, in PvE yes, you will, hence people react to that
>They are just taking up population on your server
the capacity for a WoW server is massive, this isnt a real issue
>maximize your potential population for groups/guilds
because past a certain point it just doesnt matter, people arent going to spend a ton of money transferring when you already have so many groups available just to have EVEN MORE.
>the point is that for PvE the split is irrelevant
It's not though. If you have ever done any high end PvE, you'd know how moronic you sound by writing this. If you are doing high-end content, you want as many players as possible for your potential pool of people you can recruit for your groups/guilds.
It's incredibly clear that you are completely clueless, and you have likely not played WoW for like +10 years. I am done talking to you, because you are clearly absolutely moronic.
cope. people with your brain damage are exactly like SJWs shoehorning ugly women into everything. PvP worked many times before the carebear brigade had to turn everything into a hugbox. every MMO i played in the past had a PvP server and a PvE one for trannies and morons, and the PvP one was always the most populous one. EVERY. TIME.
dunking NPCs is boring to anyone. you will never have a genre as popular a battle royale for example where you just kill NPCs. that doesn't even make any sense, you don't need to be connected to anyone to do that
that's not the experience of 99% of the players. crybabies are a loud minority that take games way too seriously. and i am talking from experience i'd need to kill a thousand different players to finally be targeted and receive death and report threats from seething idiots. mostly it was just laughs.
>It's why most wow servers have 99%/.1% faction splits.
and that's why you don't copy game mechanics from trash games like wow
>people with your brain damage are exactly like SJWs shoehorning ugly women into everything
Why did you bother writing anything after making such a profoundly moronic statement
you're not in the majority and your theme parks are all dead or dying SORRY!
all your pvp games are dead except for eve and albion (dying). all of them.
nyga ***MY*** pvp games were MURDERED by your inferior kind and don't even have any form of PvP anymore, or ran as PvE game for a while and then closed because everyone left
no, you morons keep ganking everyone which turns your super special mmo into a barren wasteland, see mortal 2. you are the smith of your own mistfortune.
nahhhhhhhh NO EVEN
everything was completely fine until THE ONE PATCH came and then everyone went their way, and after that there was no one left but coping freaks
this is the real succession of events
>mortal 2
love how PvP became such a rarity that freaks like yourself always go for these shitty indie tier games that no one played as if no other game ever did PvP
no, you're wrong, you will eternally be wrong, you will never be correct. every time a new pvp focused mmo opens you will be there ganking new players and making them quit, you will whine and cry on the forums when devs announce new ways to monetize after you have spent 8 hours ganking everyone around the starter towns into leaving the game. this is your design.
>shitty indie tier
you are so moronic that you don't realize mortal 2 is the only slightly alive full loot pvp mmo aside from eve and albion
>you will eternally be wrong, you will never be correct. every time a new pvp focused mmo opens you will be there ganking new players and making them quit
i will eternally target people who are annoying and try to prevent me from PvPing in PvP games yes
>the forums when devs announce new ways to monetize after you have spent 8 hours ganking everyone around the starter towns into leaving the game. this is your design.
and you will be crying alone, without the toxic PvPers, when the dev decides that you need to open your wallet or grind 1000 tasks instead of the previous 10 tasks after it becomes evident that this demand for wow clones and safespaces doesn't actually exist
>you are so moronic that you don't realize
you are so moronic that you don't realize no one gives a frick about that game (or MMOs in general)
>and you will be crying alone
no i won't, i've already swapped to a pve mmo while you're still seething about your tenth game becoming some bland new world-tier abomination. please remember that you pvpcels are the only ones losing, and you're doing it fully on your own. and then promptly have a nice day for being a waste of dev resources.
>you're still seething about your tenth game becoming some bland new world-tier abomination
bruh i fully moved on from MMOs. enjoy killing your dead genre even further sucker
you killed your own games so hard that you had to move on, all the games i grew up with are still going strong because they weren't centered around driving people away from them, stay eternally mad
this carebear crab mentality is really fricking sad and moronic. no one cares you think you're enjoying your mediocre themeparks that are probably on their last breath.
all top games on twitch right now are PvP based. there are plenty of games where i can PvP all day, having it to be a MMO is just a different flavor of the same thing. it makes no difference to me.
i only care about mmos so you're arguing with yourself now
except no one wants dogshit hugboxes. your genre is dead, and no you cant blame it on pvpers because your dogshit hugboxes don't offer pvp to begin with
>biggest and longest lasting mmos have pvp as side content
>autistic full loot pvp mmos pop up and die in less than a month
I'm sorry facts trigger you so much, but unless you name is EVE online and people have literal hundreds of thousands of dollars of sunk cost already your pvp mmo is dead on arrival
eve and albion?
>biggest and longest lasting mmos have pvp as side content
dead genre. cope harder
>autistic full loot pvp mmos pop up and die in less than a month
>the same self defeating "gotcha" again
why would a PvPer with any standards choose those shitty games (including EVE) over a non MMO PvP game? you're so out of touch and dumb
Its more alive than fullloot pvp mmos lmao
because an MMO with full loot can't be made without making you foam out of your mouth demanding it to be changed
there are plenty of PvP games out there with full loot that are many times more popular than your dogshit themepark
name the, homosexual
literally open twitch right now moron
i said PvP games, not MMOs
full loot games are insanely popular, but you cant make a full loot MMO without triggering carebear sjws demanding it to be changed to exactly match their dead theme park
>moves the goal posts
pathetic
>this gay is frantically googling full loot pvp mmos to try find any that top WoW in its peak or even modern XIV
>pvpigger crying about carebears because no one wants to play dogshit pvp mmos
Almost every mmo player I've seen who obsesses over mmo pvp is a hardstuck shitter from another pvp game without fail. That's why they beg for more mmo pvp so they can feel rewarded with playtime rather than any invested skill.
Yeah, the people who actually want skill-based gameplay will play those PvP games. It's quite funny because those players look at MMO PvPers the same way MMO PvPers look at the PvE carebears. At the end of the day you're both morons playing a watered down genre.
Yes that's the appeal. Build variety is what distinguishes MMO PvP from loadout-inspired PvP games.
utterly false. every pvper wants horizontal progression so that they can be rewarded for their skills, while pve shitters want it to be vertical so that they can be rewarded for their time killing npcs or their wallet.
>i will eternally target people who are annoying and try to prevent me from PvPing in PvP games yes
i rape you in pvp and make you cum on my belly
Riot and Zenimax are the only real contenders here
>Amazon's LotR MMO
Who's gonna tell him
>Archeage 2
I'm still mad about Archeage
The first 1-2 months of Archeage felt fricking magical. It was so cool to have a game that actually felt like a living and breathing world, with things like crafting, trading, traveling, PKing, etc. that reminded me of oldschool games like UO. It's such a shame the game got ruined by pay2win garbage.
Those initial months of Archeage still give me hope that it's possible to release a good MMO. It's such a shame that something so good went to such shit thanks to RNG lootboxes killing illegal tree farms.
Cant believe Ashes of Creation is still around scamming people because I swear they started dev work in 2015 and I got to be a tester in 2017.
Throne and Liberty was in development for 12 years. Wildstar started development in like 2006, 2007 and didn't release until 2014, both of these had publishers. I have no idea why you expect an indie MMO to be released already.
>scamming people
Pretty sure they said like 1-2 years ago that they have all the funds needed to complete the game, and that they don't need any more. Everyone giving them money after that are just willingly doing it.
I honest to god wish the Riot MMO is decent but they have lost several high position devs already.
4 of those will survive their first year.
Dofus Unity port coming out this year!
Dofus Eniripsa rework soon!
Play Dofus and enjoy incredibly hard and satisfying dungeons!
I played Wakfu and really liked Ecalip. How are they in Dofus? also hopefully season 4 goes back to adventurekino
Ecaflip in Dofus are considered "jack of all trades" in Dofus alongside Huppermage. They're okay and get the job done. They can do pretty much a bit of everything you'll find you'll need in combat. My veteran friend primarily plays Ecaflip and he seems to like it.
vanilla wow to wotlk basically ruined my life, but i had fun
I felt like I was missing out at the time, being otherwise busy in grad school, but I've heard a lot of people say WoW was bad for their real lives.
being addicted to wow is why i have no friends now in my early 30s and don't know how to make any. i had some friends in high school, but i used to blow them off to play wow and eventually i just stopped hanging out with them entirely. i think my life would have ended up in a much better place if i had even a small network of friends.
The audience of people who would play an MMO has gone from "nerds with at least a little social competence" to "every terminally online freak."
The other players that make up the Massively Multiplayer part of your MMO have gone sour. There’s no fixing that, and it means you’re never getting another good one.
It's the same with this website. The only time I am on here is when I am having some kind of mental health crisis and it makes me wonder what proportion of people here are in the midst of a psychiatric emergency.
social media are easier for extroverts, introverts play single player games that are actually good games, as they have always done.
they serve no purpose anymore.
Hop on Mortal Online 2
You mean the game that is being abandoned in favor of Mortal Exodus, which is literally just gonna be Mortal Online 2 in space?
>space
yawn
Because at their core they are bad games. They are originally made for two things: adventure, which is killed by modern day UI and third party websites, as well as community, which was also killed by third party apps and a general expansion of the internet. There are some people who accept the shittiness because they have nothing else going on in their lives so they need a grind simulator, but this is no different than ARPG or Gacha game addiction.
Only wow is dying.
Literally every mmo has had a boost in players over the last few years.
But those are shit numbers
Besides Destiny 2, which isn't an MMO to begin with, none of those numbers come close to what WoW was up until around Cataclysm
Those are also just the numbers of the people who download and play them through steam. There's no reason to get ff14 on steam because it almost never goes on sale while it goes on sale pretty much every other month on the square enix store and BDO wasn't even on steam for the first couple years of it's life. The only one I can say that's really accurate is warframe, maybe destiny 2 and ESO too, I haven't played them so no idea if they're available elsewhere.
>which isn't an MMO to begin with
Sadly the definition has been changed over the years because zoomers are morons. Just like P2W, a term that is taken so literal now that the question is "hurr what u win doe?" when people take issues with boosts and skips. The genre is dead, just play on private servers. SWG was the last best MMO for me so that's what I play.
Forever grinds for 'permanent' rewards is not an appealing design anymore, now that generations have passed and we have all the Everquests and WoWs to look back on. People are aware of the worthlessness of it all, where before there seemed to have been a timeless charm that incentivized people to play. These days people don't want their time wasted (at least not so much "in their face"). Solution - high stakes gameplay for immediate rewards that are temporary by design. Think of Runescape's wilderness where there was fantastic loot to earn in a very direct and quick fashion, but if you died there and got looted, you lost your shit.
>Think of Runescape's wilderness
Funny how RS recently removed PVP in the wilderness. OSRS still has it though.
they wanted to remove it there too, thank god they actually take their communities opinions into consideration. The pit thing dividing the wildy from safespaces is pretty fukken gay tho
because majority of the playerbase are stuck in the past and rejects anything new
gacha bullshit games made it so you can just pay to win, instead of play to win.
As other said, no one has time to grind like they did back then. So people just opt to pay instead of spending the time to play.
MMOs are more popular than they've been for a long time, there's like 10 of them in the pipeline, and even trash like GW2 and ESO is still alive.
how to make an MMO that isn't immediately dead:
1. have it force shut down discord when the game is opened
2. allow addons but explicitly forbid 'meters' and 'gearscore' type addons. obfuscate game code to make it impossible to develop such addons and do not provide any numbers-logging capabilities to prevent outside programs from reading log files to analyze for dps
3. provide in-game, party based voice chat. no filters, personal ignore buttons for individuals. ignoring prints a message to the entire party that player x has ignored player y (to prevent coward thin skinned morons from hiding from the fact that they're hiding from harsh truths)
4. provide in-game text ignore, but no filter on channel content by default. explicitly institute freedom of speech on in game communications; yes, this means one person can shout Black person and another person can shout frick trannies and yet another can shout frick white people. all are okay. the only rule is no spamming.
5. don't waste your time with 'action combat'.
6. do not provide fanservice fapbait shit in any character, or in any cash shop outfits.
(optional) 7. do not allow female characters to be made period, this will entirely erase 85% of troony/erp/cringe/fapbait morons, but is a little extreme even for this list
its literally that simple
>6. do not provide fanservice fapbait shit in any character, or in any cash shop outfits.
It's funny, because that shit literally saved Tera for years.
if by 'saved' you mean 'allowed it to limp on as devs sucked money out of thirsty virgin weebs who do nothing but pretend to be pre-pubescent e-girls and suck each other's pretend futa wieners while not actually playing the fricking game', then yeah i guess it 'saved' tera
tera was dogshit because it was clearly designed to scalp morons out of their money for panty shots on their female characters. everything in the game was geared towards that and the much smaller fujo crowd doing it with male characters. it was never good as a game.
>Fujo crowd
It was a small furgay crowd they had for popos and amani, no one cared about the baraka and male knife ears
It was actually pretty fun at points, but yeah it leaned heavily into the cash shop to sustain itself. It's really fricking sad to see games go down the drain due to shareholder greed. Runescape has gotta be the most tragic by far.
>made by 3 nerds in their mom's basement
>game turns out to be a huge hit
>grows exponentially over time
>fricking chinese and venezuelans start doing stuff like stealing credit cards and scamming kids
>UK government is pissed
>frick it kill free trade
>game practically dies overnight
>eventually work things out and return free trade, but the damage is done
>Andrew Gower mentions it stressed him the frick out due to the constant worry of his game dying and the possibility of being sued
>sell game for a hefty sum to a company
>surprise, that company is chinese
>they immediately add a cash spin2win system that the Gowers said would never happen under their watch
>game goes into an endless spiral of cash shop garbage, lootboxes, revamping the game to be a wannabe WoW, etc
>game goes from medieval fantasy with brit humor to "everyone has glowing wings, wears a bikini, and other gaudy shit"
>Gowers still mention to this day how they hate the decision they made to sell RS
except point 1 would make the game dead on arrival
>do not provide any numbers-logging capabilities to prevent outside programs from reading log files to analyze for dps
like xiv does?
yes, xiv shoots itself in the foot by its ability to log. trannies will then use parser addons to cause cancerous meta-slavery to THE PARSER as a result. they need to disable that shit. gearscore is another offender of 'boil players down to one arbitrary number'. it kills community.
I fricking hate gearscore man, another case of devs catering to morons and making things worse for everyone
you missed my point, xiv provides no way to log numbers, act is a packet sniffer and you're not gonna get around that. people WILL create parse meters in your game too
except its not, anon. ACT and addons like it literlaly require you to turn on logging in the client, and then it reads the combat log file as its generated by the game, piecing together a parser from those contents.
it doesnt sniff your packets
axe the log file and it doesn't have anything. and if someone does develop a sniffer, ban its usage, ban its users, and obfuscate your netcode so that it can't just suck up numbers from packets so easily
my bad it was actually Lost Ark that had a packet parser, the point still stands, developers will do this no matter how hard you try to obfuscate numbers
We are over socialized. There is no reason to play MMOs anymore. They do nothing better than regular multiplayer games or the average singleplayer game.
it's no longer about adventure or roleplay. it's just loot grinding and min maxing in a lifeless world that's basically one giant diorama with nothing to find. there's never any real effort put towards questing, it's just a text paragraph thrown in your face and a quest marker put on your map. gameplay systems never evolve, it's either tab target or mash the hotbar. raiding and endgame being the "true start" of the game is lame. innovation requires risk and MMOs are all about copying what's financially successful.
tl;dr they're boring grind slogs, just play singleplayer adventure games and RPGs, they have real game design
the concept of questing sucks ass, some dude with an exclamation mark giving you four tasks is the least immersive thing i can imagine. where are the mmos with organic exploration-based discoveries? why do all mmos feel so cramped aside from niche shit like eve?
ESO is neat because at least everything is voiced and there's dialogue choices that help stay invested with what's happening
I do like ESO questing, most of them have some extended NPC interaction and interesting lore bits
MMOs, on top of being games, were ye olde social media. 9/10 people didn't log on to do daily grind shit, they logged on to socialize with friends. Now we have proper social media, better messengers, etc. So why put up with a grindy time/money sink?
because they catered to poopsock raiders
because online gaming culture evolved, zoomers don't play MMOs because that's way too much commitment for their attention span, whereas boomers grew up and don't have time for another job anymore
If MMOS are dying then why did Genshin Impact make more money than all of the big 3 combined last year?
Genshin Impact is not an MMO.
but does wow have...this?
>job gauge floating off to china
ywnbawhitemage
Does it matter? I'd give up housing if it meant FFXIV actually had a decent open-world
no, i can actually unsub from wow for a few months and not lose my house
The modern "gamer"'s dopamine receptors are fried to a crisp. They don't want to explore, adventure or work. They just want a theme park with a gacha login reward at the end of each ride. Wikis and other readily available information don't have anything to do with this problem - XI for half of it's golden age had one and it didn't destroy the game.
>They don't want to explore, adventure or work.
Yeah I'm paying money to play a video game the point is to have fun why would I want to work lol
As in work towards something which is supposed to be fun.
I play video games for fun not to work towards something lol
1) They take too much effort to make now a days, a singleplayer half finished rpg takes a fricking decade at this point
2) The way we interact with games in general has changed, look at how even existing MMOs are all about minmax now a days.
Play Dofus with me MMOfriends
Because Devs are creatively bankrupt in the genre. It will return one day, when someone understands copy and pasting with slight tweaks to the formula isn't enough.
Let me guess
You need more?
People have optimized the gameplay too much, and rampant goldselling has ruined the multiplayer aspect. Normal groups are obsolete due to boosting, normal guilds are obsolete due to gdkp.
wtf is gdkp
A problem exclusive to world of warcraft. DKP is the old system where you got points for participating in raids or doing other shit for your guild. You could spend those points to roll on items. In world of warcraft gold is so important that people basically now use gold to bid for items when they drop from bosses, the gold is then distributed to the raid afterwards. He's saying that you basically have to spend money now to buy gold to get items, so even a game that isn't actually p2w becomes p2w because of the community.
were these items actual end-game gear or cosmetics?
Any items from raiding, so yes, endgame gear too.
They are raid drops, so they are usually the high end gear, but some raids also drop mounts and such so it's basically both. You can buy the best gear in the game and you can buy cosmetics.
seems so alien to me that GEAR drops from fights
in Dofus!!! mobs, dungeons and bosses just drop resources - resources which are required to craft equipment - nearly all equipment is crafted
and you need lots of resources and you need a leveled profession so resources are more often simply sold rather than people farming content to craft gear
>seems so alien to me that GEAR drops from fights
I don't think I have ever played an MMO where it wasn't like this, and I've played tons. I've never tried Dofus though, but their system sounds interesting.
>seems so alien to me that GEAR drops from fights
has been this way as long as rpgs existed my man
gold is worthless in WoW you moron. You have nothing to spend gold on baseline so players have made up value for it
Congratulations, you have figured out how economies work. Your argument is so moronic that you couldn't have spend more than 2 fricking seconds to think it through. You spend gold on things other people want / offer you for it. Same with fricking money. The reason why people work to earn money is because others are willing to trade them shit for it. Saying gold is worthless, but being able to buy items from other players for it is the most moronic statement I've ever read.
the only reason to ever play mmos was to bot and exploit and make money off of it lol
>playing MMOs as an actual job
Sad!
>playing
botting requires very little work, at least back in the day. you could literally print irl money with maplestory by botting and checking in with the latest exploits. these things used to go for $700 a pop
>you could literally print irl money with maplestory by botting
yeah this is genuinely sad.
it's good money when you're 14 years old
not really, no.
jelly nerd paid to play gay MMOs lol
>he plays gay MMOs to make money
Sad!
>he paid to play gay MMOs while chads like me destroyed the economy with hax & exploitz and made money from it
cringer!
>plays gay MMOs for money
>chad
>cringer!
Oof.
>he was too young to take advantage of the golden age of MMOs when you could make money off of them with free hack tools
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO zoomzoom btfo
>golden age of MMOs
>making cents off the dollar botting in maplestory
Zoomer behavior.
>cents off the dollar
>making hundreds of bucks a week with just a few clicks
jelly zoomger
i see that as an alternative to playing a game for a few years and then quitting or gifting your items to other online people that aren't even your friends. i made 2000$ by selling items that would otherwise go to waste
One of you is playing for fun and then selling some of your items when you decide to quit and move on, the other is botting and grinding the game for the sake of making money.
>"You know, maybe I should give WoW an honest shot."
>The game doesn't have a sync feature for old raids. Not only are they irrelevant, but you legitimately can not even get a half decent time out of anything more than two years old.
>But it's in the game files wasting space anyway.
What the frick is wrong with these people?
But anon, what if you wanted to solo Arthas?
I thought time walking was for doing old shit?
>Random selection
>Only some content
Just put a fricking sync function in the game, holy shit.
youre a moron and a sync is totally worthless, as timewalking has proven
>Making an automated system to limit player stats to certain thresholds so they can play the content we force them to download is a bad thing, as shown by our ineffective measures of manually doing it on a dungeon by dungeon basis each expansion.
I think new players deserve better than being told to go frick themselves.
How about you go frick yourself for being a moron, okay moron?
capping stats wont account for changes to class mechanics, spell coefficients or non raw stat gear
We've had herald of the titans for years, requiring people to complete a raid at level with capped gear
Guess what moron? its difficulty varied wildly
And scaling already is fully automatic you dumbfrick.
>WOW ANON YOU'RE STUPID FRICKING IDIOT IT'S JUST BAD AND CAN'T BE FIXED!
>Meanwhile their competitor does it just fine every single expansion with every piece of content they ever made.
Sounds like Blizzard is just incompetent and you're trying to cope.
But they dont, scaled XIV raids are considerably easier than at release due to potency buffs. So why are you lying?
XIV also has the most shallow class design on the market, no talent trees, completely bland soulless gear and dont just scale you down but flat out remove your abilities because it would even further ruin the balance
If XIV wasnt so shallow it would be even more obvious why scaling doesnt work
>Somehow slid the conversation all the way from "Why the frick can't WoW just let players sync content, goddamn" to "WELL I MEAN XIV BALANCE SUCKS"
Disingenuous c**t.
It's unacceptable that Blizz can't provide the content they force you to download at something resembling a decent experience.
I know youre extremely low IQ, but it doesnt work
It doesnt work in XIV, and thats a very shallow game. It will fail even harder in WoW, as has already been shown by timewalking. Wow has layers of class and gear mechanics that are constantly changing
Except you cant, because of potency changes. The hardest version is forever lost as soon as a spell gets a potency buff
Minimum ilvl wont account for changes in spell coefficients. In WoW, there are also changes in talents, changes in trinkets/tier, changes in resource generation, cooldowns and more. So tell me how you scale around that? And rescale every single time it changes.
Theres a reason in Wrath Algalon was hard to kill and in MoP it could be 2 manned even wearing the same gear at level 80.
>Uhm you are stupid poo poo dumb
>Also I don't think it's good enough so the devs shouldn't even bother.
Pathetic.
thanks for admitting you never once tried to min ilvl a dungeon
wanderer's palace is a breeze playing normally
doing it min ilvl took over an hour
>literally too stupid to even understand what Im saying
embarrassing
no matter what gay instance you ran, its easier than it was before the last potency buff. The hardest version is forever lost
>min ilvl is harder than doing it normally even after two expansions of class buffs
>NONONOONONONONONONONO ITS GONE FOREVER SHUT UP
cope homosexual
it is gone forever, you still havent refuted that
its easier than before, youve moved the goal. Its not original difficulty, its some bastardized in between because scaling doesnt actually work
WoW already has bastardized in between difficulty in timewalking. Nobody does it.
>Nobody does it.
doesn't the event also come with a weekly that gives you a free piece of heroic raid loot? and there's also an autistically low drop rate mount from that shit too, not to mention TOYSMOUNTSMOGSCHEEVOS from the currency
>doesn't the event also come with a weekly that gives you a free piece of heroic raid loot?
comes from dungeons, you dont need to touch the raid so people skip it.
what? that's what i just said, the free piece of loot comes from doing 4 (i think) timewalking dungeons
Its gone forever because it was removed from the game as an option because it was so hard no one did it.
It was also harder than doin itg when the dungeon was current content, it was harder than what the game sync'd you down to when queueing.
>Its gone forever because it was removed from the game as an option because it was so hard no one did it.
every single old instance is easier than it was before because of potency buffs. Not just one instance, all of them.
And the next time they buff your class min ilvl will be easier than it is now. It will keep getting easier from every buff. Scaling will never handle this, which is why its worthless.
>moronic wowbuck is too stupid to read
>weeb too stupid to understand how buffs make content easier
>too stupid to understand that being scaled down to the lowest possible ilevel to enter a dungeon makes it harder than when it was current and you could enter it normally with much more powerful gear
And its still easier than 2 patches ago when you were weaker
Why are you comparing min ilvl to not min ilvl? Historically min ilvl keeps getting easier and easier, scaling isnt able to stop that, it completely fails to maintain difficulty
When current, min ilvl was harder than it is now. Youre conflating different game modes and trying to act like its not getting easier.
Again, WoW has an ilvl limited achievement. It still got wildly easier over time, going from something you need 9-10 people for to 2. You still havent addressed this, its clear cut proof that downscaling doesnt work
>min ilvl is hardest version of running a piece of content
>even harder than when it was current content
why are wowbucks so stupid and unable to read?
but its not the hardest, its easier than min ilvl when current. its also easier than min ilvl 1 patch ago, 2 patches ago, 3 patches ago, etc.
Why are you lying?
But thats wrong. I played min ilvl dungeons with friends.
why do you keep trying to lie to cover for blizzard's laziness
The original post was actually about how WoW not having universal, on-demand content syncing is fricking stupid when the game forces you to download the assets for those instances regardless.
Scaling wont give you an authentic experience, only create more issues. So why add it?
Of course you have to download all assets, its an MMO, even if theres content you wont touch other people will.
What issue would it create? XIV can handle scaling players down to run all the game's content at level. They used to be able to handle scaling you down to the level of the content while also capping your gear to the lowest possible ilvl to even get in. WoW has no problem drip feeding sync dungeons once every 2 weeks
>WoW has no problem drip feeding sync dungeons once every 2 weeks
but timewalking tuning is completely terrible? Its consistently way off the mark.
>they didn't get the scaling perfect the first time so they shouldn't ever try do it at all
even if they got it perfect once the next patch or even hotfix would ruin it again
its not worth constantly having to re balance a boatload of instances and character scaling every time a new patch comes.
Its impossible to properly balance
Even if it was possible it would need to be redone constantly, making it a colossal development time sink
And even if they did all that, nobody would fricking use it.
It is nothing but a pointless waste.
blizzdrones are too stupid to be expected to memorise every mechanic of every boss fight in the game
you see, mechanics in WoW actually do matter. it's not an issue in XIV because dungeon boss fights are all a joke and failing mechanics is a slap on the wrist unless you're actually braindead and do it 5 times in a row
you can sync down normally in XIV and before you could sync down to the minimum ilvl possible for a piece of content to play it in the hardest possible way
why can't blizzard do that with more than like 1 dungeon at a time?
only reason people do synced raids in ff is the mandatory roulette btw
Most of them.
Some of them are new players or want to do the old content. Better than
>Get lucky or just don't play it lol!!!
what makes an MMO a "theme park"?
what's "horizontal progression"?
I don't understand these terms
Feel like context behind 'theme park' is easy to understand if you've ever played an MMO before.
A theme park mmo is basically something where the developers give you a new attraction every once in a while. Something like a new raid or a new dungeon. Those raids and dungeons are the "rides" for the themepark. The opposite of that is something like archeage where shit is player driven and the content comes from what other players do.
And what happens to a player-driven MMO when the playerbase starts dwindling? Archeage 2 will be a theme park mmo because those are the only MMOs that have ever made money
The same thing that happens when the playerbase starts dwindling in a theme park mmo. Suddenly you won't be able to play the game the way it was intended to be played. Why the frick are we having this discussion anyways? There is no need for you to get so defensive, I never commented on how good the concepts were. I merely stated the difference between them. Shit like traderuns are boring ass content, but so is grinding the same garbage raid for the 10th week in a row. The genre needs innovation, not fanboys getting defensive.
Why do Trusts exist in FFXI and why are they adding them to FFXIV
Theme park = everything is 100% streamlined and casual. You're guided along the way the entire time in a way that the developers designed for you. You can never really get off the ride that they designed for you, because it's the only way to play. Typically the only endgame of theme parks revolve around doing PvE content.
Horizon progression = instead of constantly upgrading your character's power, you're instead VERY limited in how much power you can acquire. This means that a character that's 10000 days old can pretty much never be much more powerful than a character that's 1 day old. Guild Wars 2 uses a system like this, for example.
look at a themepark
look at a sandbox
one has actual stuff to do, the other is empty but you might amuse a child for an hour or so with it
>what makes an MMO a "theme park"?
when you have to complete a list of tasks the stupid developer defined for you in succession and do nothing else
>what's "horizontal progression"?
it is when youre forced to no-life or open your wallet to add +1 to your stats to play a game
Pretty sure theme park is just a buzzword and doesn't actually mean anything, since depending on the definition, every MMO falls under that umbrella. but horizontal progression is like, choices and stuff. Like imagine a ladder going straight up; that's vertical progression, and every rung makes you objectively stronger and more progressed as a character.
Now imagine there are several ladders side by side that you can slide over to that offer slightly different options. That's choices in gear, skill tree options, and other things you can do that make you stronger without involving level ups. Gear side-grades and such for finetuning your playstyle.
>Pretty sure theme park is just a buzzword and doesn't actually mean anything
Are you moronic?
Are you?
>Pretty sure theme park is just a buzzword and doesn't actually mean anything
Wrong. The opposite of theme park is a sandbox. Something like UO is the quintessential sandbox MMO. WoW is the quintessential theme park MMO.
It's a shitty term. A better term would be linear, or on-rails. Unless the theme park thing is a like a reference to the on-rails nature of progression, but that's still a more obtuse descriptor than a sandbox mmo.
>Unless the theme park thing is a like a reference to the on-rails nature of progression
It is. It's also a reference to how oldschool MMO players viewed theme park MMOs as being casual and kid friendly, like a theme park.
and in both cases is pure cope!
The hardest MMOs are all themepark MMOs.
Real life themeparks have a ton of rides that a kid wouldnt go anywhere near, in fact most adults wont
>The hardest MMOs are all themepark MMOs.
u wot m8. The hardest MMOs are all sandbox PvP-focused games.
theme park just means that it has fully curated on-rails experiences for the players, very little to nothing is player driven as in eve
Just because you don't know what themepark means doesn't mean the word doesn't have any meaning, moron.
Vanilla wow is not a themepark. The maps are mostly empty and samey, i.e. natural. The quests all come from one, maybe two towns and they require you to travel anywhere in the zone, or even other zones.
Modern wow is a themepark. The zones have randomly sprinkled thematic areas that feels oddly specific and localized, like camp of elementals or quillboar that is just there to prevent the zone from looking like vanilla Barrens. There's a town nearby housing all the quests involving that little area. You start a zone in one town, it gives you a handful of quests you can solve immediately (or almost) outside, after you complete all the quests (and the questline forces you to) so you move on to the camp/town that has a handful more. It's like you finish a ride in a themepark and you move on to ride the next one. And because even the zones themselves are self-contained these days and rarely, if ever, send you to another zone, even the zone itself is a ride.
Would you say Azuremyst Isle is a theme park?
Initially no but eventually it turns into one when the game forces you to do the furbolg questline.
Correct, it is not.
>you're wrong and i'm not gonna tell you why
cast surrender to madness
Wow has NEVER had player driven content, it's all on-rails quests and dungeons and events fully designed and controlled by the devs. This is what theme park means you fricking moronic homosexual.
what an absolutely MORONIC statement and definition, if you can stretch the definition that much then every single game is a themepark because even needing to change zones to fight enemies your level can be called rails.
literally every game falls under this definition, unless you're playing something like second life or XIV in which your "player driven content" isn't actually playing the game or interacting with it in any way other than the chat system by having pretend sex with other grown ass men
>literally every game falls under this definition
How old are you? Genuine question. Because there have been plenty of non-themepark MMOs that no one would ever call themepark. UO, SWG, EVE, DAoC, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Archeage, Albion Online, etc. just to name some of the most known ones.
probably older than you, homosexual. what makes any of those magically not be a themepark under your vague as shit definition?
>what makes any of those magically not be a themepark
The fact that they are sandbox games, where the players create and drive the content, not the developers.
You are a moronic toddler, you have no idea about anything relating to mmos, have a nice day immediately you dumb fricking Black person.
>no counterargument, just seething
i accept your concession
>implying you had any argument other than "UHH MY DEFINITION IS THE RIGHT ONE"
why would you deserve any other reply Black person
Anon is right, you're the most moronic Black person ITT. You don't understand that farming dungeons and raids for reputation and emblems that you need for gear upgrades is the definition of a theme park.
WoW is a fricking themepark mmo, always was, always will be
if you want a sandbox you play shit like EVE online
>player driven content
what the frick does this even mean?
it means theres nothing to do so people just erp
yeah that is exactly what i first assumed and it looks like it was spot on.
there is no such thing as "player driven content" in a videogame, if you want to level up, or craft something, or do literally anything that actually involves interacting with the game beyond a chat room, you have to ride on some sort of rails to get there, be it grinding mobs close to your level, specific mobs that drop specific materials, etc
>what the frick does this even mean?
That players create the content. Is this a completely foreign concept to zoomers? If you want a list of games, see
>namedrops a bunch of games without elaborating
you know, most people develop theory of mind before their age reaches double digits.
What kind of elaboration do you need? I just told you that the players create the content. If you actually bothered to look up any of the MMOs I just listed, and read a 60-90 second summary of them on Wikipedia, you'd know what they are like.
Because the burden of proof is on you.
I'm not about to waste any amount of time reading up every feature every MMO you namedropped has to offer to divine what you meant because your definition can encompass any and everything.
A definition that can encompass everything is not a definition at all. You literally sound like a leftist trying to define what a woman is.
Exactly this.
Samegay.
>Exactly this.
>quoting your own samegay post
Leave the thread and play eve for a year you dumb fricking homosexual, you are completely out of your depth
>Samegay.
I posted two times. (126) and calling you the most moronic Black person in this entire thread, which you are. Address my actual point or stop posting, homosexual.
>Because the burden of proof is on you.
Okay, let me break it down incredibly simple for you then. Let's look at that list I wrote. Let's take a game like Darkfall, for example.
The game is a PvP-focused game with full loot. The developers gives you the building blocks to make your character the way you want, with whatever spells/abilities you want, and then they give you the ability to create groups and guilds, which then also gives you the ability to create bases in the world. Then they give you the ability to gather materials/ingredients from the world, and give you a crafting system where you can create armors and weapons. That's it. From that point on, the developers basically don't ever interfere with how the players can/should play.
The players are now the ones who drive and create the content. They create the rivalries between clans. They create the wars between clans. They create the politics between the clans. They create the alliances between clans. And so on, and so on. The players are never guided into being on-rails like in theme park MMOs. They don't ever have to wait for the developers to make a new dungeon/raid/whatever. They are just dropped into the sandbox and they can freely form and shape the sand in any way that they see fit.
>Correct, it is not.
Why popularised the term "themepark MMO" zoomster
WoW popularised the term "themepark MMO" zoomster*
Yeah, okay, you're being ridiculous if any required quest chains at all means a game is a "theme park".
>Vanilla wow is not a themepark
So you have no idea what theme park mmo means
vanilla wow is a themepark, just a very shitty shallow theme park
you still have quest hubs and clear micro-zones, just with more empty filler
>Vanilla wow is not a themepark
WTF? Vanilla WoW was literally what spawned the term theme park MMO, because of how casual and "on rails" it was compared to other older MMOs.
>what makes an MMO a "theme park"?
The entire game is all about railroading the player towards the newest attraction site with the world itself just being a static visual set piece.
It's really not hard to understand.
Kids moved onto fortnite and other games, and the generation that played MMOs have jobs now and don't feel like grinding in vidya after a long day of grinding IRL.
my guild is literally dying because it's a bunch of boomers who are all fat with terrible health habits
the coof really did a number on it
Albion Online is the only good current mmorpg
but now it's recently dying because chinks and "muh inflation"
Same reason most games are shit lately. They traded soul for profit. The only good games anymore are released by from soft, capcom, and indie devs
Because nature is healing, and people are coming to the realisation that MMOs are shit.
Is it good design when an MMO requires other players to do content? Pic related. I got it done with my guild.
>Is it good design when an MMO requires other players to do content?
Yes. An MMO should literally force grouping as much as possible. The problem with modern MMOs is that they attempt to make as much as possible soloable, and thus they ruin the actual MMO aspect because everyone just plays like it was a singleplayer game.
Yes, mmos used to require multiple people to do even the more mundane stuff such as just getting to the next town over without getting mogged by a few overworld monsters.
People will endlessly whine about this being a waste of their time, and those people are the reason mmos are streamlined to the point of nearly being single player games.
WoW is dying because Blizzard only cares about endgame which doesn't attract new players.
Kraloob :DDD
How is this compared to wakfu and waven? I wanna get into a grid combat mmo but not sure which one I should focus on
Dofus is better
I started out contemplating between both and I think Dofus has a larger population and has more updates despite being the 'older' of the two. Dofus also has more content and is expected to be ported to Unity practically 1:1 which will almost certainly revitalize the game significantly as it tackles two issues showing the game's age: it's poor graphics and it's performance issues.
Waven I tried it but I did not like it. It's also not really an MMO from what I've seen and tried. Dofus is a more comprehensive MMO in that it expects you to group with people to do content - of course you can get away with soloing things up a to a point.
I'll give it a try after Unity, my furry friends like it
MMOs were always niche before WoW came out, and now that WoW isn't popular anymore it's back to being a niche genre again.
Because they now cater to the troony audience who wants the games to be Second Life before it's a game. Only based Korea still makes MMOs that are games, but westoids are mind broken with FOMO so they trick themselves into thinking the whole genre will be fixed if it just worked how it did when they were 15.
im not paying a sub with how my current schedule is. make it f2p and ill no life your game 2 days of the week blizzard shill. t unironic pre-wod multiglad hpal, rsham, d/h/s.priest and destro lock
>unironic pre-wod multiglad hpal, rsham, d/h/s.priest and destro lock
what does this even mean
hit gladiator many times on different class back when i played
WoW terms. I will translate for you.
>unironic = I am serious, not joking
>pre-wod = before the Warlords of Draenor expansion
>multiglad = several gladiator titles - earned from being high ranked in arena PvP
>hpal = Holy Paladin - a healer spec and class
>rsham = Restoration Shaman - a healer spec and class
>d/h/s = Discipline/Holy/Shadow Priest - healer/healer/DPS
>destro lock = Destruction Warlock - a DPS spec and class
Thank you for coming to my TEDxTalk.
because they take away player agency
diversity hiring, and it's not just a /misc/gay conspiracy theory anymore
I want an mmorpg with ai wildlife and ai societal ecosystems
Everything is a WoW-clone and those that aren't are being held hostage by Amazon out of spite because New World was a massive failure.
Let's be real, throne and liberty and blue protocol aren't industry shakers.
bots
There's many things you can't bot and ways to counter botting.
Every new MMO released today is a fricking disappointment and a flop, people are sick of WoW clones and top-down MOBA shit.
It's time to make a real sandbox MMO with gameplay on par with smaller multiplayer/singleplayer games instead of being stuck in 2005.
the best mmos are fun to create new characters
every modern mmo, or classic mmo that is still online and has been updated, desperately tries to keep you playing the same character forever
schizo post
Maplestory encourages you to have a literal army of alts
alts are not standalone characters, they are part of a single character.
>Create an army of alts in DFO
>Get seen as a chink schizo
>Create an army of alts in Maple
>Get seen as having status symbol
>do your daily/weekly chores 50 times a week on your 50 characters
FRICK
OFF
Alts are fine
Being virtually forced to create an army of alts because the devs would rather give you a laundry list of meaningless chores instead of creating proper content is not.
Maplestory does this shit and I hate it.
real talk. Why isnt WoW F2P yet? Don't they have enough cosmetic, boosts, and base expansion purchases to go F2P?
Because blizzdrone zombies still pay for it.
Because they know stockholm syndromers will pay the sub.
WoW is essentially F2P if you just farm ingame to buy the WoW token and exchange it for a subscription every 30 days. It's not even hard to do.
Because MMOs were only appealing for its time during the early Internet. They haven't evolved from being a glorified chatroom with some activities and an avatar. They simply aren't good games that can stand on its own.
>They haven't evolved from being a glorified chatroom with some activities and an avatar. They simply aren't good games that can stand on its own.
this is the exact opposite of what happened
the morons who only liked them for being glorified chatrooms in the early internet, however, have never shut up about it
Mmos are unironically glorified ha ha games
Instrumental play, meta-slavery, too heavy of a time sink, too big of an investment to develop. Simon Says circular arena design, lack of true player agency and freedom, theme park braindead design (24 man in FFXIV for instance). Repetitive weekly tome/currency grind, daily quests.
The video by that bald shitlib also really described many of the problems the genre (and WoW in particular) has, though it's more about how moronic and insufferable MMO players are, and how the devs have these moronic races with them, making shit as moronicly difficult as possible because everyone is autistic and has a million add-ons that tell them what to do, and waste months on learning a rote Simon Says 15 minute script.
Dofus only has one daily. Play Dofus! The daily is also unique in that you're simply tasked with turning in a preset resource for every day of the year. It's called the Almanax! And the reward is a very nice Dofus! Some people even make profit buying up the resources in advance because they know people are lazy and will just buy the resource last second!
Turn-based MMOs are the fricking worst, especially the french ones.
You have to get all the eggs
I was reading on the wow forums to see what people were thinking of other MMO's and i couldnt help but read this in a dramatic voice and laugh
>Except this is seen with the blinders on. The WoW killers were never going to take it in a one stroke beheading. The WoW killers are a crew, and their champion is on the horizon.
What is their champion you think? Riot?
Realistically? None because even Everquest 1 is still around so WoW will never be killed either.
The WoW killer was never destined to kill wow in a literal sense, only dethrone it. Unless Blizzard for some reason decides to shut down their service it will never die.
i decided to level up a character in WoW without dying
i made content
therefore WoW is not a themepark game
>being this mad about misunderstanding a term players and developers have used properly for over 20 years
You should honestly consider killing yourself, I am imploring you
Wrong. You played exactly how the WoW developers wanted you to play.
The Chad Player, Driving Content
The magic was gone as soon as they started catering to a more casual audience.
There's literally no reason to play an MMO when you can reach max level in a week or two. How am I supposed to get attached to my character like that?
By playing a good game with satisfying gameplay instead of chasing the high of 'number go up'?
That's the problem with both FF14 and WoW, your character has absolutely 0 identity
SWTOR unironically is a better MMORPG than either of these games because the RP aspect is pretty immaculate if you're into star wars, you can be a dark jedi, you can be a pure sith -you can even betray the empire/ republic in some class stories
Not to mention even side quests are fully VA's and come with cutscenes including your character, whereas in WoW your character literally doesn't exist in the lore, how can you care about the story at that point
>MMO
>good gameplay
That's a dumb argument. If I wanted to have good gameplay I wouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place. They used to thrive on player interaction, now all of that is replaced by NPCs that you have to click on to cash in your EXP.
>MMOs don't have good gameplay so they never can have good gameplay
That's some really really dumb reasoning.
I decided to attack Southshore with a bunch of guildies of our own free will, despite there being no benefit from doing so. In fact, such an action is bound to be detrimental as someone tags a dishonorable NPC by accident. However we will still risk this in the name of fun.
This eventually sparks a battle between both factions, which even in a best case scenario DK don't happen, is still less efficient than a battleground.
I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
Stay eternally mad.
did you ever ask yourself... "why southshore?" you are a mindless drone with no free will
What does any of this have to do with whether it's a themepark MMO or not?
Do you somehow not have free will when visiting a themepark?
>in the name of fun.
In eve you risk things for actual rewards, player-created and player-driven things that are taken away and given to you. Control over regions and their material output. There is no such thing in wow, non-blizzard catered player interactions don't give you anything at all. I just destroyed your entire argument and you will never recover from it.
>I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
Wrong. You didn't create anything. You played exactly how Blizzard designed the game. You attacked an enemy that Blizzard designed was an enemy that you could attack. If WoW had been a non-themepark sandbox game, you would have been able to attack not only your own faction, but also your own faction's NPCs.
Why can you not do this? Because it's a themepark game, and not a sandbox where you can actually create your own content.
>you would have been able to attack [...] your own faction's NPCs.
there was a debuff in vanilla that let you do this. it was a quest chain that started in a cave in 1k needles
So sandbox MMOs mean you can just take a giant shit on anyone you don't like at any time and rob them of their time and effort? Especially considering MMOs are notoriously grindy?
No fricking wonder they're all themeparks now.
>So sandbox MMOs mean you can just take a giant shit on anyone you don't like at any time and rob them of their time and effort? Especially considering MMOs are notoriously grindy?
Yes, and it was fricking glorious. Imagine some little shithead is talking absolute shit to you. Guess what, you can just kill him and steal all his shit. Then when he respawns, you can corpse camp him for hours and make his life a living hell until he finally admits defeat by logging out.
Then you put him on your PK list and share it with all your friends and guildies. Then the next time any of your friends or guildies see him, they will do the exact same to him and let him know who sent them. Being able to do things like this made people think twice before they acted like spergs in games back in the day. These days there's zero repercussions to shitheads running rampant.
Most MMO players are solo players and they should have their own content. There shouldn't be a partyfinder that funnels solo players into group content.
Albion is the only MMO that got it right. Solo players can play content where they are anonymouse and only meet other solo players.
All the older people who grew up with them are killing themselves or moving on, lil zoom zoom would rather play Fortnite
I have decided to refuse the developer's on-rail experience and instead of leveling up, I took my level 1 female draenei to Goldshire and decided to rail every male human in the tavern with my thousand-yard futa wiener.
I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
same except i took my nelf to goldshire and got railed by futa wiener, good content
Roleplaying in WoW is unironically the most sandbox thing you can possibly do. Congratulations, you finally found something that's actually sandbox-ish. However, WoW itself is still an on-rails themepark MMO.
>Roleplaying in WoW is unironically the most sandbox thing you can possibly do.
Yes we already shitposted about this 25% of the thread ago. Good job.
>mfw you're gonna go to bed thinking you're right and everyone else is wrong
simply wish i could kill you tbh
>I can't prove you wrong so I must resort to violence like the nignog that I am
The moron shrieks in his impotency.
>you're wrong
>haha no i'm not i switched around the meaning so i'm actually right!
like arguing with a woman
>dev rails are bad, players should be able to make their own content
>ok i'll jump off the rails and have fun my way
>NO NOT LIKE THAT
you are deeply autistic.
since you really like posting that screenshot of archimonde from WC3, let me put it in a way you can hopefully understand: chopping down every tree in a WC3 campaign map for the hell of it, saving the game, and sharing that save isn't the same thing as making a custom map from scratch.
leaving the rails for a few minutes to kill an enemy that doesn't drop anything is the objective of any quest or looking behind the scenes in off-limit areas isn't player created content. people in this thread obviously mean there should be less barriers and limitations over what you can do as a player.
banding together with your friends to flush weeks of some gay's time and effort down the toilet in EVE is the best example there is
Isn't it funny how the only example of "TRUE player created content" you can bring up is being a dickwad in EVE? Again, just like in
and
you admit you aren't actually interested in playing a videogame, you just want to be a shithead and grief people, wasting their time in one of the most time-consuming genres of vidya out there, and, once again, it's no fricking wonder every game is a themepark now, because nobody wants to play a game with subhumans like you who made being bullied in high-school their entire personality, especially not the normies with 5 jobs, 3 wives and 50 children to take care of who have like 5 minutes a week to play your game and certainly won't fricking bother if they can lose months of progress on a whim.
>m and my friends are going to fly off into the dg of the galaxy and build out own little outpost where we can mine and make our own stuff, build up our own little base, make allies and enemies out of the other players out here
vs
>I'm going to run the scripted content the devs made, then I'm going to run the scripted content the devs made, then I'll really mix it up by running the scripted content the devs made but with more people
>sandbox game: pvp focused game
>themepark game: pve focused game
ok gotcha
You have quoted 2 of my posts, but I am not the guy you are currently talking to. Just thought you should know that.
that's irrelevant, it's the same argument
>WoW is not a themepark game.
gay futa drenei erp in goldshire is the biggest themepark-like attraction there is...
As long as you did it in /yell
I am an undead rogue. I have decided to reject the gear treadmill and live in Stranglethorn Vale of my own accord, killing every alliance player who is still in their 30s and playing hide any seek with anyone above level 50, definitely not because I have no skill and anyone capable of standing toe to toe with me will probably blow my keyboard turning ass the frick out.
I have made content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark game.
>stranglethorn vale
you joined the back of the longest line in the park
>chose not to take the meta talents
you when to the disneyland pickle stand and not the churros stand
Tree dude, you must consider ignoring leveling and just fishing forever.
no significant innovation in decades
what would be a 'significant innovation'?
Because they're all just essentially lobby games.
Big open-world lobby, teeny tiny 5 man instance gameplay.
>re: muh pvp and full loot
There have been several new MMOs that followed this recipe. Only a handful drew enough of an audience to survive without softening death penalties, and the biggest survivor only took off because it went F2P and on mobile. Most players aren't masochists who want to grind hours of boring chores every time they die playing the fun part of your game, nevermind paying you for the "privilege."
Survival games work because the boring chores that everyone hates come at the end of the play loop, instead of the beginning, and usually involve things that aren't mandatory progression and extend beyond the death of your character, like building a huge base. Death is usually a small punishment because your investment is either easy to replace or in some broader mechanic that is harder to fully lose, and the core gameplay barely changes from beginning to end.
That's where full loot MMOs fail. Instead of fun PvP allowing you to build up from nothing after you die in PvP, you're saddled with hours of neglected, mind-numbing PvE content until you replace what you lost. The balance is usually dogshit too, making skill much less of a factor than $$$.
Bree-Land... Home...
I willingly chose not to take the meta talent selection.
I have created content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark.
Even in a themepark you're allowed to go into the river and drown yourself, nobody is stopping you from doing pointless shit that amounts to nothing.
I have decided to swim from Wetlands to Westfall instead of taking the road and, eventually, the tram.
I have created content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark.
well thats just a lie
>I have decided to swim from Wetlands to Westfall
Is this even possible? I'm pretty sure you'd just hit the fatigue barrier like 2 minutes in when you attempt to swim west from Menethil Harbor.
i'm pretty sure you can do this as long as you stick really close to the shoreline. it's really fricking tedious because it's a fricking long way from wetlands to westfall however
you'll eventually happen upon Newman's Landing on the way too.
>i'm pretty sure you can do this
You're right, I found this video. Apparently it actually is possible, but you need to touch land regularly to stop the fatigue.
Nobody talks in MMOs anymore. Any time you read a story about someone having fun in an MMO, it all stems from a random interaction between strangers. Everyone's on discord now with their friends and those moments don't happen naturally anymore.
Yesterday I corpse camped a guy in tanaris and he eventually logged his horde to whisper me that he would kill my entire family. It was a pretty funny social interaction.
I have decided to cliifjump my way to Hyjal, an inaccessible vanilla zone.
I have created content. Therefore, WoW is not a themepark.
>pic
okay, i laughed
No one except for no lifers care about MMOs. They are their replacement for any kind of social life. My boss and his online friends play hardcore WoW. The only reason he plays it? He's bored and wants to talk to his friends. The second that he finds someone to actually talk to, or a different game that catches his interest, it will get dropped like a sack of shit and he won't talk about it anymore. This is why MMOs are dying. The days where chatting with friends in a virtual environment and bragging to each other about your sick loot doesn't have the same appeal when you have much better games that also do the same shit, but aren't tucked behind hundreds of hours of non sense grind.
I'd love to have people to talk to IRL to be honest, but it's damn near impossible to meet anybody these days.
all the fotm shit like new world that had full loot pvp but removed it is the reason they're dead now
new world was always destined to be dogshit
morons like you have been saying this stupid shit for years and it's why morons like you are doomed to playing garbage like Darkfall and Mortal Online. At least Albion dips its toes in, but even they know you don't go full moron and appeal to homosexuals.
Kids are unironically the main selling audience for games.
Mmos especially free ones were where most kids spent their days around the 2000's. Grinding levels, meeting people online, gaining communities outside of being bullied at school.
Small profit margins but kept the servers online and forums busy.
Newer generation of kids have short attention spans, need instant gratification and actually play games to meet their friend online.
Roblox, Valorant and the other top few competitive games are all free. They don't take lot to maintain as expectations are low.
>competitive
That's the real key. MMOs are watered down, no expression of skill or any impressive mechanics whether it's PvE or PvP. Why the frick would I play a MMO when I could play Elden Ring or a fighting game? Getting a sick outplay in a polished game is way more impressive than some clip with garbage combat and where your gear contributed at least half of the highlight.
MMOs never really shook off the image of the neckbeard no-life, in fact they leaned into it more with the FOMO and chores that make it a second job. Whenever I see my friends enter a MMO binge, I assume they're going through a rut and I've always been right. It's a dead-end genre.
Because nobody wants to waste his time in an lgbt amd diversity ridden immersion ruined world.
why do so many incels play MMOs?
escapism
Ask your fellow men in dresses on discord.
I don't need another job, also, SP games are just better.
There will always be group that likes MMOs but as of now they are niche market.
Remember those 20 years when C(W)RPGs were niche and how it sucked for people who liked them,
yea, this is how it feels...
>but as of now they are niche market.
Lost Ark and New World both reached +1 million concurrent players on Steam. It's not a niche market at all, it's just that every single MMO is fricking trash.
>Lost Ark and New World both reached +1 million concurrent players on Steam. It's not a niche market at all, it's just that every single MMO is fricking trash.
The games made by Amazon that were shilled nonstop on Twitch, a platform owned by Amazon?
>The games made by Amazon that were shilled nonstop on Twitch, a platform owned by Amazon?
What does that have to do with the numbers they got on Steam?
Lost shart and poo world's success isn't indicative of an interest in MMOs, it's just showing how effective Amazon's marketing team is. Hell half the discussion on new world were from unironic zoomers admitting that it was their first mmo and they only picked it up because their streamers were playing it. FOMO twitchbait streamerslop games show up all the time, remember fall guys, dark and darker?
the goal posts
>pathetic
Mmos aren't dying, but the age of combat focused mmos is over. It's all about life sims now baby.
Because you become miserable if you play them. They eat up all your time and you can't make money out of it because no one gives a shit. No one will watch you stream WoW or ff14.
I hate mmos they ruined my school years and after a domino effect i went through a lot of shit as an adult, poorgay, homeless, neet...
>Because you become miserable if you play them
Some of my most fun and happy moments in vidya were in MMOs.
>I hate mmos they ruined my school years and after a domino effect i went through a lot of shit as an adult, poorgay, homeless, neet...
Oh, it was projection.
>Some of my most fun and happy moments in vidya were in MMOs.
imagine saying this unironically
LMAO
What's wrong with that? My top 3 would probably be N64 with the bros, LANs with the bros, and MMOs with the bros.
What are your most fun and happy moments in vidya?
they ain't dying
you are just playing shitty ones
>gachashit
>nothing massively multiplayer about it
Dude i am playing this one and it is not good...
>9 year development
>mobile game devs
>insane menu bloat
>mmo quest bloat
>abyssmal weeb writing(especially character), only decent character is jack
>abyssmal gacha rates
>not well thought out combat(i really hoped it would be like BNS)
>class imbalance is insane(melee pointless, mage deals 3x dmg no sweat)
>already has auto gather hackers(though all of em english)
I could live with the menu bloat and bad writing, if the combat least was good, but it is just action slop without strategy or thought.
MMOs were popular because of the social aspect. The actual game was pretty shit, it was just something you did to chill with your friends.
Now we have social media, so no need to play these shitty games.
except social media is garbage. spend 5 minutes on twitter and you'll reach this conclusion
no, the real culprit is the great normalgay invasion of the internet of 2008
I like Dofus
It feels like it got most things right
why do women refuse to give me the sex I deserve?
Amazon should stop buying publishing rights and instead just outsource a asiatic studio to make another one of their flashy combat mmos but WITHOUT the garbage pay to win aspects. A modern BDO with the monetization of New World would be a smash hit. But it relies on 2 things
>asiatics making a mmo without insane grind and p2w (impossible)
>amazon not censoring shit (maybe possible if their backs are against the wall)
>a modern BDO
it just released an expansion like a week ago
Amazon is making a Lord of the Rings MMO next. They already got their hands full with publishing Blue Protocol + Throne and Liberty + some new Tomb Raider game, and then making their own LotR MMO.
yeah but it's being made by the moronic team that spawned new world, so it's guaranteed dead on arrival
Because it isn't 1997 and the idea of a persistent world with 100s of other players is no longer novel. The genre has also been aroudn long enough for the average player to see the cracks and limitations of the genre as it is, and none of the current developers are taking any risks to move it in the right direction to encourage what made it fun in the first place: community in a living world.
In fact they are doing the opposite. MMOs nowadays are just dungeonfinders. You are no longer doing content with your friend and community that requires communication and alliances, you paired with strangers you will never see again to beat streamlined, pitiful content.
It's actually incredible. Technology has moved forward and every modern game is more than capable of supporting hundreds and hundreds of players in the same area without a single issue.
Meanwhile, what are "massively" "multiplayer" games doing?
>WoW
A handful of people in the same dungeon. Raids with 10-25 people. Shits its pants handling ~40 players killing a raid boss.
XIV: 4-8 people. Solo dungeons with NPCs. No outdoor content.
Neither of these games should be called an MMO and it's embarrassing they are the biggest faces of the genre.
>no outdoor content
Odin? Behemoth? the other boss fates?
100% 14 is basically the only good recent singleplayer FF, but it is a terrible MMO and doesn't give you any of the feeling you woudl get from MUDS like Gemstone/ Dragonarealms or MMOs like UO, EQ, FFXI, or launch WoW.
>good single player game
>100 hour of mmo cutscenes and fetchquests with 0 challenge
hahahaah
>14 is basically the only good recent singleplayer FF
no
no it fricking isn't
the story is just generic JRPG weebshit that inevitably degenerates into the indomitable human spirit vs the cruel indifference of the universe
XIV isn't an MMO, or an RPG. it's a worthless VN with a Second Life tier ERP postgame. that "game" should not exist
DofusChads will win the MMObowl
I'm the type of no-lifer who should adore MMOs, but despite being a friendless loser, they're too grindy for me to find them enjoyable. I'm in that weird spot where I'm not normal enough to hang with normalgays or find any enjoyment in the shit they do, but I'm also not nerdy enough for nerd shit.
oh don't worry your pretty little head, you might be a friendless loser and not normal but i'm sure you're still too normal to fit into the freaks that enjoy MMOs these days too
see:
It just means you're unlikable
No, I'm pretty well-liked by the people who know me. I just have no actual friends, they're acquaintances at best.
Being normal means taking dicks up the ass and castrating yourself. Don't even bother with MMOs, only trannies play them nowadays.
Wait are you really limited to how many dungeon runs you can do in WoW? How can anyone defend this?
You are not.
there's a 10 instances per hour limit
why are you lying blizzshill
Any normal person doing any normal content is never going to hit that limit.
Why?
What the frick do you mean why?
Give me an example of how you would hit that limit playing normally.
Wrong
End of wrath had dungeons that gave 219/232 gear. You basically geared alts and went straight to icc for a ks run.
your average modern day WoW player spends most of his time steamrolling old content on 50 alts for a 1% drop chance mount. these runs are very fast and 10 in an hour is easily hit unless the player is smart enough to throttle them with longer raids
you are wrong. plain and simple.
Raids have weekly and heroic dungeons daily lockouts.
>You Have Entered Too Many Instances Recently
Lying homosexual.