Why are PS5 and Xbox just AMD APU now? What happened to the days of wild, custom hardware architectures?
Console exclusives were developed exclusively for a specific hardware and platform, developers used to optimize games specifically for consoles exotic architectures. It's a well known fact that hardware limitations are a good thing when it comes to video games, because it forces developers to be creative and optimize their work.
More unique architecture is more investment for something that ultimately only alienates developers and the industry is too big today to survive on first party IP alone unless your name is Nintendo.
Why would you put money and research into something you know will not be worth it and in fact, just make you worse off?
Yeah, third party games suffer because of this. Just look at the PS3 which on paper was more powerful than the 360 and yet every single third party game ran slower and had longer load times than the Xbox.
>Just look at the PS3 which on paper was more powerful than the 360
CPU, theoretically. GPU they were behind by about 20% and multiplatform needed to run at lower resolution and have longer load times because of the split RAM. It wasn't a well designed console.
Never mind the Cell alone lost Sony $8 Billion dollars. No one will ever touch custom architecture again because of that insane decision.
Nah, it was GPU in many
I have an overclocked PS3 and Full Auto 2 at 1080p runs great
most of it wasn't actually that custom. also a good chunk of it is obscure shit that never took off so a vidya console is all it was really used for.
cost: higher
profit: lower
the end
the next xbox is looking more and more likely to be ARM CPU based and possibly nvidia too. rumors in the last day or two has stated the next playstation will stick with AMD. so ARM/Nvidia vs AMD/AMD. personally i think AMD are garbage.
>the next xbox is looking more and more likely to be ARM CPU based and possibly nvidia too.
Source: My ass
Anybody with even a little bit of knowledge of PC hardware will tell you that this is complete nonsense.
ARM cannot compete with x86 in the gaming market. The performance of the architecture is much lower, because ARM is a low-power design. There is also no demand for an architecture that competes with PC platform (x86), as that would drastically raise development costs.
It would theoretically be possible for Intel and Nvidia team up and make an x86 SoC chip for the next Xbox, but that is extremely unlikely. Development costs would be much higher than just hiring AMD to create a solution, as they already have an entire ecosystem dedicated to building high performance SoCs.
it was literally in xbox's leaked documents from the ABK court case. and more recently they said they're building a preservation team for forward compatibility which, according to digital foundry, is more than just x86. also windows has an official arm fork as of like a month ago.
They can do whatever they want. It doesn't matter. It will fail for obvious reasons. Microsoft does not have a sound business plan for Xbox. It's entirely reliant on gamepass subs which are not growing and have no path towards growth.
>the next xbox is looking more and more likely to be ARM CPU based and possibly nvidia too
Bullshit. That would kill backwards compat, which is the only thing Xbox has going on.
Xbox is going digital-only with their next mid-gen refresh console. Does ARM cause problems with digital back compatibility?
ARM is a problem because old Xboxes were based on x86. It has nothing to do with being digital.
ARM is a completely different architecture and will require devs to make a special port for Xbox if it goes ARM. Devs are already increasingly in favor of not even releasing on Xbox so I don't know why anyone would believe that making it more costly for them to release on Xbox would be smart.
Can't MS make an x86 emu for ARM?
yes. these already exist. there isn't anything that can't be run on arm or x86 or vice versa. all it takes is a translation layer. and MS are already the experts at this. i mean hell, they managed to emulate powerPC on x86 flawlessly with Xbox 360 back compat.
microsoft wizards
>microsoft wizards
Reminder that MCC still isn't perfect
Why is it so hard to port Halo games to MCC?
99.99% of players wouldn't be able to tell a difference
The series x is a great console. No noise even when the fans are maxed its a slight hum, can output 1440p 120hz easy, its just theres not many good games .
Series X is great. I got it for 300 dollars. Emulation in dev mode is fricking great.
Can you even emulate all Xbox 360 games without expending a dollar or sub?
Spending*
>its just theres not many good games .
People and xbox be like
>we tried exclusives and nothing worked
how? For fricks sake, you either took timed exclusives or exclusives that were just shit. Xbox was literally the halo, gears, forza machine. Now it's just halo. They had a good concept, regardless what any homosexual here tells you. The Play Anywhere was a good concept, but what missed were the games. It's ok that you bought some devs to have more exclusives, but why the frick do these gays then not release any game. The management is cleary fricked in many ways. Bethesda until now would have published like at least 5 games already. Also gamepass was a shit decision.
It's completely on Phil and his inability to know what a good game is. Anyone with eyes saw how bad Redfall looked just from previews alone. I cannot imagine being the decision maker and going into Arkane's offices, seeing their work on Redfall, and going "hmmm yes this looks like a big hit!" And then doing the exact same thing with Starfield a few months later. Maybe it was shareholder pressure to release but all it ended up doing is hurting the perception of the Xbox brand even more.
Nah the devs themselves are to blame, you cant blame big phil, he is literally a high functioning downie going by how hes run xbox.
The media praises absolute dogshit games like The Last Of Us so how would you know what's a good game these days.
>next xbox
anon...
Theyve already said its happeneing but I think theyre doing what they did with 360 and getting into the next gen early by skipping pro model and just releasing xbox neXt or whatever.
Anon doesnt matter what hardware next Xbox has its not gonna sell not even their lowest expectatives
>ARM
Next Xbox was already DoA but this is like mag dumping the corpse.
Xbox console brand has collapsed already.
Yes, that is what my post implied.
Still not buying a PS5
Why would you? Just build a nice PC.
Already built a PC. Just sick of the submoronic, delusional, entitled, malignant Sony cult constantly shilling their humidifier with NO GAMES on Ganker
Neither console is good. Sony fanboys don't realize that their console is living on borrowed time. Just because Xbox is failing does not mean Sony is safe. Their financials look bleak long-term.
That was for their handheld thing, which would be basically a xcloud console.
>It's a well known fact that hardware limitations are a good thing when it comes to video games, because it forces developers to be creative and optimize their work.
a good thing for the end product quality, not a good thing from a business/financial perspective which is all they care about.
Xbox is not going AMD next-gen. Also, the series s the most visually appealing console out of the two. Sad to think that Microsoft makes better quality consoles in terms of noise and heat management but Sony got better games.
Which console has better hardware, Series X or PS5?
Series X but somehow the PS5 outperforms it a little bit. However, that outperformance is in the low % but noticeable enough for Digital Foundry to constantly bring it up. Looking back on my purchase though I would have bought Xbox purely because how little noise it makes. PS5 is a noise machine
Can I get a quick rundown on what ARM even is and its benefits?
>PS5 is a noise machine
That’s definitely not normal. Mine will scream wildly when first reading a disc or loading up a game but will be dead quiet otherwise. I’ve read some units came with coil whine and other noise problems but supposedly Sony replaces them, so you might wanna look into that.
Yea this is the case for me aswell no idea why that guy PS5 is making a ton of noise
>Can I get a quick rundown on what ARM even is and its benefits?
i'm not entirely knowledgeable but i believe it works better with AI, uses less power and is more scalable across multiple devices.
>Can I get a quick rundown on what ARM even is and its benefits?
Arm (the company) sells licences to use ARM (the instruction set architecture) to other companies. Anyone can make ARM CPUs, as long as Arm (the company) gets a cut, that's their business model. Qualcomm, Mediatek, Samsung, Google, Nvidia, Apple and many many more: all of these companies produce their own ARM-based CPUs.
x86 is owned by Intel and AMD, they don't license it to anyone else. Only Intel and AMD can produce x86 CPUs.
That's the main difference.
Arm isn't inherently more efficient than x86, x86 isn't inherently more performant than Arm. It's just that the vast majority of Arm chips are designed for low-power devices, and the vast majority of x86 chips are designed for datacenters and workstations.
The X is slightly more powerful but not enough to maintain stable frames at higher resolutions. So often the PS5 performs better because devs know the lock the res to 1440p or lower to get a locked 60fps while for the X they allow resolution to scale higher but you end up with unstable frames and below 60.
And we know the PS5 could do that too but again with the tradeoff of not reaching stable 60. It’s why some first-party games have the 120hz 40fps quality mode.
The Xbox Series X has better hardware than the PS5. However, the Series has a moronic poverty variant which causes all games to be forced to work to the lowest common denominator. That's not all, the SDK dev kits initially were behind the PS5 and devs had an easier time just running a game on PS5 at three start of the generation. The Xbox console family had to account for the Xbox One too, as you might know that was an extremely weak 2013 console, but because of Xbox's policy of not leaving behind last gen and their anti-physical smart delivery program it caused devs to waste time on another port of a game to support a 2013 console.
As this generation went on things improved for Xbox. No one here noticed that Resident Evil 4 Remake wasn't released on Xbox One or that MANY of the last 2010s Xbox One ports like Ace Combat 7 ran incredibly compromised on that 2013 console. Meanwhile the PS4 still got PS5 cross gen games just because it was the better of the two 2013 AMD Jaguar machines.
Having to support 2 extremely shitty consoles made Series X have its legs blown off. SDK issues were present. Today a lot of those setbacks were resolved, any game like Dragon's Dogma 2 with an uncap framerate will run marginally better from the CPU side by 10%. It's sadly too late for Xbox as the market is extremely anti Xbox for too many reasons outside the scope of this thread. When the Xbox is a very distant third place console, with a userbase conditioned not to buy games, when the Poverty Status Symbol S console mandate parity exists, when the parent company Microsoft is sending signals they think of Xbox hardware as a vanity project you have today's situation of Xbox consoles not selling. Third parties have to make 2 ports from a PC build and Xbox is a dead console brand, no shit the PS5 gets better ports even though it's weaker. The game was rigged against Series X by incompetent SDK, bad executives not able to sell the console, and Shitbox existing.
With the Xbox Series S refresh coming in June they could bounce back with the right marketing
Nope eveyone its conditioned xbox series S its the moronic child messing up normal boys playing football and fprces by his mom to play or she is gonna ape out and tell your moms
but that is simply not true though
That does not make any sense. The Series S is one of the biggest problems with their business.
Wrong. The Series has sales of 27 million, whereas the PS5 is at 55 million, with higher physical and digital software sales, with Series software sales dropping over the past year. Microsoft have also publicly said that they cannot compete with PlayStation and have started bringing supposed exclusives over to the PS5, like Hifi Rush and Sea of Thieves (though neither were exclusive, since they were both on PC). The PS5 is the only current gen console with any exclusives, with Rebirth, Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin so far this year.
>PS5 still has no games
Why should I buy one then?
Ps5 is silent.
Why do these morons use AMD instead of the superior Nvidia tech? Even Nintendo who are known cheapskates use an Nvidia chip on their Switch and according to leaks will also use one for the Switch 2.
Sony had Toshiba to make a Cell based GPU for them, but they couldn't get it done, and Microsoft was rushing the 360 to market extremely fast, so they had to glue on a Geforce chip. Nvidia got them by the balls HARD because of this and could charge them whatever they wanted. And that's why the PS3 ended up less advanced in many regards (horrible memory speeds, no unified RAM, no unified shaders, etc) while costing $600 on launch (equivalent to something like $1500 today).
PS3 had 7800GTX
As soon as Sony adopted the x86 platform, it was over. Mark Cerny did 15 presentations convincing Sony to use x86 for PS4. PS4 in particular is just BSD on AMD64, its fricking piss easy to write and optimize code for. PS4/PS5 are essentially x86 amd pcs running a OpenGL/Vulcan compatible GPU on top of a BSD based OS. couple that with numerous games using ue4x and its pretty easy and economical to put games on more machines. Microsoft thinks ahead because they have to due to their directx api, they need to be on the cutting edge. sony doesn't. so when xbox gets machine learning upscaling and ps5 doesn't, don't be surprised. sony abandoned the cutting edge with the ps3.
They've been making PC games all along.
Nvidia is expensive and not willing to reduce prices on older hardware while AMD is more willing to reduce prices in time. Microsoft ate a huge expense on the OG Xbox and ended their generation early because Nvidia wouldn't reduce prices. Sony ate shit on PS3 because Nvidia wouldn't reduce costs so they were losing money on slim models. Nintendo only bought mass produced Tegra models Nvidia normally only sells to car manufacturers for displays so they were able to buy them in bulk for relatively cheap without dealing with Nvidia's pricing too much.
Generally no one likes dealing with Nvidia because of those costs. Though the one theory I've seen why Microsoft might go with Nvidia next generation is that consoles aren't dropping in costs anyway, in fact both Sony and MS have increased prices in some regions. So the barrier of dealing with Nvidia on part costs doesn't really matter if you're just gonna keep. And Microsoft's working with Nvidia on AI NPU processors. So that might factor into an APU Microsoft is looking for where they use Intel CPU, Nvidia GPU and Nvidia NPU. So Nvidia might make a bigger comeback in the console space.
It's a moronic idea. Not enough people will buy Xbox hardware to justify the increased costs of going to Nvidia. On top of that, GP incentivizes you to not buy games so where is MS making their profit from on this? It's not hardware. It's not game sales. GP is fairly static at 30 million-ish subs and they need 40 million more to make it sustainable. Where is the money coming in from?
Cod is a huge fanbase and all they have to do is gimp the ps versions and every one of the cod streamers will switch like they did from xbox to ps and all the fanboys follow what they do and use so I can see them able to pull back a huge % of the marketshare just off cod alone .
As all activision has to do is confirm xbox as lead platform and they will all switch back instantly .
This is the most hilariously delusion moronation. It would literally be illegal for them to do this and would cause every regulatory body on the planet to lose their shit. Fricking morons. At best they can release it on Gamepass but any noticeable lack of parity will be in violation of the terms they both proposed and agreed to for the buyout to even happen.
>any noticeable lack of parity
AFAIK no exclusivity was the only term they agreed to.
One of the terms was that they couldn't intentionally gimp the PS version. Regardless it would be a moronic business decision in the first place. If your goal is to make money why would you intentionally tank PS sales just to get a fraction of the playerbase on Xbox? There are only a few million people that care enough about CoD to do that, everyone else will simply not play it or deal with the gimped version. On top of that you will incur multiple lawsuits from regulatory bodies all over the world for a slam dunk anti-trust case against you. This idea would just cost MS money and would go against the "consumer friendly" PR they've been trying to spin for years. The whole idea of them doing this isn't based in reality.
How could they prove it, acti would deny it.
Also they wouldnt even have to gimp it just say xbox is dev lead and the cod frickboys will switch to xbox for "the advantage".
>What happened to the days of wild, custom hardware architectures
You answered your own moronic question
>Console exclusives HAD to be developed for a specific hardware, if you wanted more money/sales you had to redesign shit
>developers HAD to TRY and optimize games specifically for exotic architectures. Wasting time and money.
>It's a well known fact that SOMETIMES hardware limitations are ABLE TO HAVE POSITIVE OUTCOMES, because it forces developers to be creative and optimize their work BUT OFTEN (MORE OFTEN THAN NOT) END UP MORE NEGATIVE
You can list, like, 3 examples of limitations causing good outcomes, I can list 1000s of games with shit performance or loading etc
Its cheaper and easier for everyone making games, for everyone playing games, even on consoles, to be basically just PCs.
>Why are PS5 and Xbox just AMD APU now?
Single chip solutions drastically lower production costs, while keeping performance at a relatively high niveau, and only AMD can make such high-end solutions.
It also makes sense for PC and both consoles to use the same and most widely used underlying architecture (x86), as this reduces development costs for developers.
Even THEPOWEROFCELL was a partnership between companies (ibm, toshiba, snoy) using the powerpc architecture.
What people think of what consoles are always silly battles of semantics, there were never anything more than glorified locked down pcs made just to run games.
yea, but the fact they are made just to run games brings a lot of benefits like quick resume, optimizing for one set of hardware is easier than thousands of different pcs etc and of course console convenience. I have a laptop for work/Ganker and console for vidya
The snes uses some piece of shit that apple used for the Apple IIGS in the 80s. The genesis uses a fricking 68k. No console has ever had 100% original custom hardware, that's a myth made up by consolegays who don't want to accept that a console is just a locked down computer made as cheaply as possible to sell video games.
>as cheaply as possible
Not quite, but pretty cheap. The cheapest shit never catches on.
Why doesn't Sony put a 7800X3D in the PS5 Pro?
Compatability reasons because PS5 is a locked spec. It needs to be compatible with all software and run on the same architecture. They need to use the same Zen 2 CPU. It's why the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X still had to use Jaguar on those enhanced consoles because it needed to stay within the same family of processors. MS had at least worked on some enhanced aspects that they could call "Jaguar Evolved" but it still had to stay within the same family
>They need to use the same Zen 2 CPU. It's why the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X still had to use Jaguar on those enhanced consoles because it needed to stay within the same family of processors. MS had at least worked on some enhanced aspects that they could call "Jaguar Evolved" but it still had to stay within the same family
What AMD CPU will they use for PS6?
3600x
It makes more business sense to make your console very easy to develop (and more importantly) port to. Look at N64 and PS3 to see how trying to be a special snowflake only screws you in the end
They should just make a pc thats also a console first but its also a pc and make series x size and theyve won.
>It's a well known fact that hardware limitations are a good thing when it comes to video games, because it forces developers to be creative and optimize their work.
>Series S exists
>Ganker: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT LIKE THIS
We can’t even get decent proprietary engines from developers anymore. Creation Engine needed to be retired over a decade ago, EA forcing Frostbyte to do things it wasn’t made for, REengine likewise being dogshit for anything that isn’t REVII, whatever the frick Sega used for Frontiers(PSO:NG?), it is all a fricking mess. Part of the reason every game is the fricking same is because engines aren’t made for games, games are made for engines.
making a new engine for every game was never something that actually happened. when did this myth start?
>Console exclusives were developed exclusively for a specific hardware and platform, developers used to optimize games specifically for consoles exotic architectures. It's a well known fact that hardware limitations are a good thing when it comes to video games, because it forces developers to be creative and optimize their work.
The two Saturn-likes PS3 and 360 refute your console kid fantasy and consoles are severely restrained in power to this day, running everything like fricking shit.
>running everything like fricking shit
Framerate is a choice, not a hardware limitation. A PS2-looking game could easily run at 1000 FPS on PS5, if for some reason that was their performance target.
Even if consoles were as fast as a 14900K+4090 PC, some games would still run at 30 FPS. They'd just look better.
Sony charged $700 for their last console with distinct hardware (PS3). Yeah it was the first multi-core system and first HD blu-ray system, but that cost made it take a long time for the PS3 to gain traction.
>it forces developers to be creative and optimize their work.
Please. It's all made on Unreal, Unity, or some other engine by younger people hired for checkboxes. Absolutely none of them know how to optimize. That's why hardware requirements are through the roof now. Optimization is a completely lost skill now.
We had this thread a dozen of times already, just look up the archives at this point.
TLDR: it's cheaper (yes, even cheaper than their cheap custom designs), easier to dev and basically all other architectures are dead.
short but correct answer: israelites
>What happened to the days of wild, custom hardware architectures?
The PS3 happened and it was a disaster
Consoles are done. They will continue to morph into dumbed downed gaymin PCs, for people that are too stupid to build their own rigs.
The days of exclusives are over, and the reasons to own a console are fewer and fewer. Next generation will be the last for consoles.
Except Nintendo.
>press xbox icon on controller
>xbox starts
>play game
i value my time
Consoles had to be cheap to work and we were talking about a time when Intel was king of the PC and weren't interested in selling cheap CPUs to console manufacturers. And graphics hardware was not a commodity thing yet. PC was a dumb framebuffer machine for the most part with only actual hardware being made for excrutiatingle expensive CAD workstations and 3D rendering. So consoles had to invent their own hardware to cheaply do what devs needed. And it was hard work.
When PC finally started to focus on graphics hardware with the 3dfx, TNT2, GeForce and so on, that's when it stopped making sense trying to invent your own graphics hardware and instead just get nVidia or AMD to make a low cost part for you. And then AMD started to actually offer custom CPU parts for cheap where intel and nvidia famously fricked over allcomers with high costs and low customised parts. No surprise that AMD now owns the console space with only nintendo hanging on in there with an nvidia derived part.
PS5 worth getting now for a couple of years until I am done with school and start working?
video games in general are fairly dead now. If you can afford it then PC is obviously better since it has all the same games with at least the option of turning the upscaling off. IF you can afford the GPU to do it.
PS5 runs most of the same games at lower settings for $450. If all you can afford is a used 3060 for your 2nd gen Ryzen 5, buy a PS5. Or take up gardening preferably.