Why are there no platformers like the original Tomb Raiders and why are the remake games so bad?
Why are there no platformers like the original Tomb Raiders and why are the remake games so bad?
Why are there no platformers like the original Tomb Raiders and why are the remake games so bad?
Because the reboot series is not Tomb Raider but Uncharted clones
-Tomb Raider was a unique game even for its time
-Tomb Raider is a unique game even to this day, because complex and huge levels that actually use 3D well and incorporate verticality constantly is rare
-Tomb Raiders movement controls are weirdly indepth and precise. Something a lot of people don't realize because they lack the capacity for critical thought is that every facet of Lara is deliberate. If you press triangle and pull out Lara's guns, you'll realize she turns MUCH faster, but if you've ever tried to actually do any platforming in that mode, you'd realize it's very hard to get her to turn to specific angles because the turn speed is too fast to be precise. Therefore, it was a deliberate decision to make her natural turn speed slow so as to give as much control about the specific directions she can face
-Tomb Raider isn't just genuinely hard and obtuse. It doesn't hold your hand, or tell you how to progress, figuring out and understanding how and where to go, is half the point. I huge levels that can take upwards of an hour each of just pure platforming and exploration, no combat to inflate the time and challenge, You're supposed to clear mobs to clear a safe path. Exploration and Traversal is above everything
-Tomb Raider animations are indepth and hard to replicate. No single game of that era had as fluid, and unique animations as Lara, everyone knows the handstand on ledge trick that she could do, the detail of her animations is meticulous and elaborate, and gives her flair and character equivalent to Mario, but imagine if half of Mario's moveset actually mattered.
I've talked to an indie dev in another thread about why there's no Tomb Raider indie clones and this was basically his answer. The type of unique and complex levels TR have, are genuinely hard to design In 3D, and her animations are too complicated for indie devs. TR is just genuinely to unique of a game. IMO truly good games can't be copied easily, it's why soulslikes all suck.
I recently played the first game and thought it was going to be retro hell. My god was it fun. I did enjoy the nu-trilogy for what it was but I see why fans are pissed
I did a recent playthrough too. There is some utter bullshit, like the flying uzi on the invisible platform or jumps to secret areas that can only be attempted once but it's so much better than the new shlop
Imagine how much of today's normie gamers would be filtered by the complexity. What company today in their right mind would burn money for something that predictably won't sell well?
For this to work, there needs to be another wide-scale push from various vidya companies for these kinds of games for a few years. And that doesn't seem like it'll happen.
Somebody has already said it in this thread, but good games are hard to copy, everybody always mentions the Mario's and Zeldas (unironic slop anyway lmao) But everybody forgets the Assasin Creeds, The Uncharted's, The Far Cry's, The Skyrims, The Call of Duty's, The Halo's. Influential ≠ Good, games are LITERALLY sold on a capitalist market, and anybody who has any understanding of capitalism, knows that the easiest thing to replicate and be "inspired by" is the easiest thing to sell, the most samey, stale, generic and broad appealing thing, that is the opposite of risky or creative is what sells.
Art does not sell in Capitalism. Very rarely atleast. Hey don't get me wrong, I'm not a commie, I don't care about capitalism one way or another, it's obviously a very efficient system, but it values efficiency and convenience over everything, and thats bad for Art, who's value isn't as easily measured. But the reality, is that for something to be truly creative, truly impressive, truly standout. It simple cannot be easily replicable. Somebody is going to bring up an example of Mona Lisa which has been copied to death, but art is different since it can literally be traced, in which case the value is in the unique idea itself, the first art, rather than whether it can be copied.
I think I have a point here, not sure though, maybe some people have more examples of "bad influences" for the industry?
BG3 is gonna be the next bad influence.
Honestly, couldn't a case be made that Cyberpunk and Witcher (with all the sex and openness) was BG3's influence?
I would argue the trend started with GoT or maybe HBO's Rome, even if it ain't exactly vidya
The controls, at least on PC, were perfect at least until AoD came out. Then Lara (and the random guy whose name I can't remember) turned into moronic tanks.
The devs of the new trilogy held the original games in open contempt. It wasn't a reboot/remake as much as it was an opportunity to torture the original fan base
Aren't they the same who also made the 7th, 8th and 9th game? Aren't they still core dynamics?
nta but it's arguable if they are the core gameplay, they focus a LOT more on the shooting and action adventure aspect instead of the platforming and exploration aspects. The shooting in the original game was an afterthought, arguably the weakest part of the game was mashing the shoot button while jumping around like a maniac. In the new games it's practically one of the main focuses. That's because the platforming and exploration has been nerfed so far into the ground that it's almost uncharted in all but name.
Crystal Dynamics*
and Yes, it's the same people, same company, if you check the Wikipedia, the literally came off the team from Underworld, some different people here and there because no dev team actually ever stays exactly the same but yeah, the Wikipedia literally says "After Underworld, the team decided to reboot the series instead of a next installment" something like that. I wish we could see fully what the teams actually were like because Wikipedia only gives little information on that when I'm pretty sure the team wasn't literally like 6-10 people max lmao
But Legends was already a reboot, wasn't it? they never acknowledged it, though? Were they so full of themselves, that they never considered the first 6 games?
You know what's really weird? The last *real* game Crystal Dynamics made was this piece of shit.
>original games in open contempt
Why? Do they hate puzzle games?
Yeah, they screamed "misogyny" without playing any of the original games.
Yeah they also tortured the ever loving shit out lara. Rebar through the gut, wood piercing the brain, trampled by animals, raped by islander, cauterizing wounds with burning arrow. Really got the feeling they hated her as a character.
That's the funny part, I don't think they hate nu-lara, they hate old-lara and this is genuinely their way of appreciating nu-lara.
Why? who the frick knows. It's the mental backflipping of wannabe Hollywood directors upset that they couldn't cut it on the big screen and had to settle for video games. You see the same kind of resentful writing from other movie games.
Anon did you forget how realistic that bone crunching sound was in the original series
I'm not really into guro but playing the first nu-Raider I can never help but kill Lara every opportunity I get just to see all the different kinds of nasty deaths they animated for her. I was disappointed that Rise of the Tomb Raider did away with this aside from a couple spike traps, but Shadow at least fell about halfway between the two. I yearn for another AAA game as brutal to the player character as the first of the trilogy but the closest are Until Dawn/The Quarry/Dark Pictures and the problem with those is killing off characters locks you out of whole sections of the game later on.
That's the point of most reboots and remakes, erase the past.
It's not that great of a platformer
It's an amazing one, along with Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. The 3D PoP games are more fast and fluid while Tomb Raider is more calculated.
I've seen this thread popping and installed the og TR with a fix patch to run it
And I do get the platforming and exploring part well, but don't fool anyone, Lara turns like ass. It plays more than clunky, it's really fricking ass. It's like making Resident Evil a platformer but even worse because RE does turn fast
I mean with a bit polish and a bit more precise controls would be actually a classic, but it just plays like shit.
>I mean with a bit polish and a bit more precise controls would be actually a classic, but it just plays like shit.
You're moronic and have ZERO idea what precision or polish is. If ANYBODY wants there answer for why Uncharted's, Assasin Creed's, and modern Tomb Raider are standards for platforming in action adventure. THIS. is why, because the average player is genuinely too stupid to grasp the controls, it's not even about whether they can play it or not, they simply and LITERALLY do not understand what is going on when they play the game. This is why developers creat NPC companions that tell puzzle solutions like in God of War, why Ubifsoft and Naughty Dog normalized automatic platforming, because THAT is what "polish" is, polish is just convenience. standardization. accessibility. making things easier instead of establishing a learning curve.
When I game is designed on a grid system, and walking is a mechanci, on top of specific distanced jumps, and and angled jumps, aswell as ledge and grab controls that actually have to be held, and people STILL say "it needs more precision" you KNOW the gaming industry is fricked. morons like this are simply too close minded and moronic to tolerate and engage themselves in unfamiliar controls, they can't understand what the game is going for because they go into it with preconceived notions of what "polish" or "precision" is without actually looking at It for itself.
The reality is that most consumers are bots, and are completely satisfied with receiving the same u inspired game every single year, or Fifa, COD, and AC wouldn't exist.
>All that wall of text
Not reading it, plays like ass, and this is absolute truth.
Dare anyone to play it right now and see for themselves.
Frick you nerd b***hboy
Why the frick are TR haters CONSISTENTLY the stupidest people? Like they're so aware of so many facets of the world you'd think they were unironically 75 iq, and this is a charitable estimate.
>Dare anyone to play it right now and see for themselves.
Appeals to subjectivity and tries to also make a weird appeal to popularity "everyone else would think the same if they played?"
Even though that can objectively be proven wrong?
>-Tomb Raiders movement controls are weirdly indepth and precise. Something a lot of people don't realize because they lack the capacity for critical thought is that every facet of Lara is deliberate. If you press triangle and pull out Lara's guns, you'll realize she turns MUCH faster, but if you've ever tried to actually do any platforming in that mode, you'd realize it's very hard to get her to turn to specific angles because the turn speed is too fast to be precise. Therefore, it was a deliberate decision to make her natural turn speed slow so as to give as much control about the specific directions she can face
>Frick you nerd b***hboy
Postures like he's hard and deflects from the fact that he was too stupid to read words? Like bro is unironically the bully stereotype that is threatened by a "nerd" that isn't moronic and actually reads so he pretends to be bigger than he is and labels him with demeaning words because masking the reality that he's smarter than him is easier than confronting his inferiority. Like I don't know what to do with people this genuinely stupid and unaware that not only do they think asserting there subjective opinion actually means something even though it can be proven wrong, but also is proud of the fact that they don't even care if they could be wrong or ignorant.
I started playing it for the first time this week. It's an amazing game and I can't wait to start up 2.
Sorry you got filtered zoomer
Played it for the first time yesterday. It's a fantastic game. Sorry you couldn't git gud
>It plays like ass beacuse I suck at it
skill issue
old Lara controlled extremely fluidly if you didn't suck shit and have the depth perception of a gopher
Absolutely ethered
What does ethereal mean?
You were literally filtered zoomer.
When the game is too hard for your broccoli headed brain
>Why are there no platformers like the original Tomb Raiders
Tank Controls
>why are the remake games so bad?
Were they ever meant to be remakes of the original games or just successor games that simply are titled like the original ones? Because GOW isn't meant to be a remake of GOW. They just wanted to basically soft reboot the franchise so that is why they have the same name.
>Were they ever meant to be remakes of the original games or just successor games that simply are titled like the original ones?
You realize there's more than 1 trilogy? Anniversary was a remake and eas made by the same company as the reboots. And eidos literally canceled the original creators of Tomb Raider's version of an anniversary game because they're spiteful morons that still blame core for the failure of AOD, rather than themselves and their poor mismanagement
Regardless. Anniversary is just as standardized and far away from classic Tomb Raider as the reboots, the only difference is they made sure Lara wears booty shorts so the braindead coomers that never cared about the series in the first place could pretend it was still Tomb Raider
I'm an older boomer. I pretty much tuned out of the series after the PS1 era games. From what I recall the series popularity waned during the PS2 years though some of the early games still retained popularity. By PS3 generation it seemed the series completely dropped off a cliff in regards to popularity until they started pushing politics with it about how she's such a strong woman and doesn't need to look super hot anymore.
>From what I recall the series popularity waned during the PS2 years though some of the early games still retained popularity.
I'm pretty sure all the PS2 games are literally some of the lowest selling in the entire series. And Tomb Raider isn't actually dead, the PS3, or PS4 series, whatever you want to call it, is actually the highest selling in the series Ganker will actually give you a completely wrong impression of reality, many people enjoyed and liked the game, and I was surprised to find out by going to "how long to beat" that it's one of the most popular and most played games there. Your game doesn't make it to the top somewhere like that without being genuinely relevant.
But see. That's the problem, thag actually makes it worse that Tomb Raider actually isn't "dead" because what it means is that reboots exist as the primary representative of the series' Legacy and effectively redefine what Tomb Raider is. The fact that so many are okay with, tolerant of, and enjoy the reboots mean they have ZERO reason to ever hold themselves to any standard and actually break out an identity for the series. The identity the original established, because people will be satisfied and okay with whatever is put out with the Tomb Raider name. So yes, Tomb Raider is still alive. The namesake, not the game.
Every reboot Tomb Raider game flopped so hard that Square sold it.
>BUT IT SOLD MORE
Yes and it cost 100 times more to make. Every Tomb Raider reboot game was openly said by square to have under performed.
Tomb raider used to be a videogame icon, now it's just another generic game in a sea of them.
I'm not sure what to believe now. I guess I'll stick to what my original memories have told me about the franchise. I do also remember Tomb Raider being a super iconic series that was on tons of magazine covers, advertisements and even people who don't play video games may have heard of it. It even got movies which from what I recall were popular and made Angelina Jolie more popular as an actress. At some point the series popularity had to have waned though. I can also see it that the latest games did sell the most its kind of standard at this point for the industry which is a lot bigger than its ever been. I can also see it though that they have huge inflated budgets because again, that is just standard stuff now with this industry.
So my guess is the series never reached the heights of its prime back in the PS1 era. The reboot stuff might be a good enough seller but probably more so with movie rights. I mean it is true that they bought the rights only to then sell movie rights for 600 million supposedly so that has to account for something.
Someone made a remake of 2 without the tank controls and it was still extremely precise. You can take out the tank controls and have the game be a precise platformer
>"Still Precise"
>Literal same guided magnetic platforming as reboots and LAU
>Literally still based on the Underworld engine (which you can tell by the the sprint butt camera shot)
You morons literally don't understand clasic TR at all, you simply don't get it, unironically too stupid. IDK what it is about these games that filter morons so hard. Underworld and the Legend games are notorious for bring inconsistent and having platforming that doesn't connect randomly and you'll sometimes jump to platforms and fall because the game decided not to latch u to the platform, or the opposite and literal magnet platforming, because of no dedicated grab button/mechanic. morons misinterpret this as requiring precision lmao.
I swear people don't think or see nuance. That isn't precision, or even remotely the type that classic TR had, based on this argument you could argue the reboots require precision due to climbing axe. Man, this series is dead for sure if this is the average comsumer. Nobody who's actually played and like classic TR thinks that remake is actually "Tomb Raider" in anyway but graphics and art. Which is the surface level and easy stuff Crystal Dynamics already does better anyway.
good game and convo and all but man that one autist is really trying to milk that topic hard
Any other game make zoomers seethe?
Tomb Raider Legend and Underworld have great puzzles and exploration, but lackluster combat. The new games have much better combat, but hold your hand through all the puzzles and exploration to the point that you're just going through the motions. What they needed was a balanced marriage of the two.
>Tomb Raider Legend and Underworld have great puzzles and exploration, but lackluster combat
Games that were literally made by the same people as reboots and are LINEAR as frick. HOLY FRICKING SHIT I WANT TO CRY
IMAGINE UNIRONICALLY SAYING LAU HAS GOID EXPLORATION BEING LINEAR AND GUIDED AS FRICKKK AND PRETENDING REBOOTS DONT HAVE PUZZLES DESPITE SHADOW OF THE TOMB RAIDER LITERALLY BEING COMPLAINED ABOUT FOR HAVING TOO LITTLE COMBAT
OMGGGG consumers are literally too dumb, they don't know what they want or understand anything about games and then cry when they get the reboots? I get it now, I get it so much. When we live in a world where somebody can unironically claim Legend has good exploration, nothing matters, because there's no principle or perspective of what something actually is or what makes something good. omggg I wanna cry, this series is SO fricking dead and we deserve all the reboots FRICK.
Goodbye Lara, I'll try to remember you infinitely through all the TRLE editor levels
The reboot puzzles are shit and the "platforming" is brain dead
Yeah, and LAU puzzles are just as shit and brainsead, are you moronic? Do you even understand classic Tomb Raider? There's literally a puzzle in Anniversary that people praise so much for "expanding the poseidon room in St.Francis Folly" Omg yes! it's so good that there's a puzzle, even if I ignore the context of the puzzle! The puzzle is literally so fricking moronic that all you need to do to solve it is literally just interact with the only interactable prompts in the room (the boxes) and if you just interact with them one after another, the puzzle essentially solves itself.
You guys are so moronic and have such Lowe standards without also realizing that your condemnation of the reboots is subjective that you don't even know what's good for the series. In classic Tomb Raider the puzzles were the platforming and the platforming the puzzles. The puzzles were about understanding your environment and Laras moveset to figure out WHERE TO GO, and HOW TO GET THERE because the game was squarely about navigation and traversal.
You create your own platforms to interact with with block puzzles, or you use your understanding of Laras moveset to jump on a slope, hang off it, and shimmy to a platform you can stand on. I almost want to call it emergent. But the right word is "natural" solving a puzzle is about having a natural understanding of your environment and moveset to overcome adversity.
If a wolf is chasing you in the woods, climb up a tree to get away from it, that is the type of natural puzzle solving that incorporates and understanding of your environment and your capabilities.
LAU is literally the EXACT same game as Reboots, it has tutorial prompts as well, it has QTE'S, Cinematic Setpieces, Linear Levels, Guided and magnetic platforming that requires no thought and has no punishment. You literally jump from narrow beam to narrow beam automatically with no thought (picrel) and you're calling this any better than reboot? Seriously?
It doesn't matter if it's linear. The intuitive level design that gets you to experiment til you progress is the good exploration, as long as it doesn't hand you the answer on a platter like newer games. An open world isn't necessary to get you to explore. The new games just outright tell you everything you need to do, down to telling you where secrets are.
>It doesn't matter if it's linear. The intuitive level design that gets you to experiment til you progress is the good exploration
exploration doesn't matter if it's linear and not complex or interconnected?????
>The intuitive level design that gets you to experiment til you progress is the good exploration
Intuitive level design that is, clear, obvious and guided is actually good for exploration some how? "Gets you to experiment"? What??? Wtf does that even mean? "experiment"? Intuitive is LITERALLY the opposite of exploration since you don't have to look carefully anything or put together an understanding of the level layout, you just follow the bread crumbs which is LITERALLY was "arbitrary grooves in a wall that tell you: "Yes you can climb here!" is"
>The new games just outright tell you everything you need to do, down to telling you where secrets are.
WTF???? This isn't even true? What? Why are you literally lying out of your teeth, the new games TELL you how to play the game, or remind you that you have certain abilities you can or should use but it doesn't actually tell you puzzle solutions or secrets what?
I can't tell if I'm actually insane or if this person is genuinely and severely moronic? Like I can't even tell if I'm arguing over reality. Dude ACTUALLY just said intuitive and linear level design is actually good exploration because "experiment?????" LAU games were literally made by the same people as Reboots, all the shitty modern day additions like a stark focus on combat, QTE's, Setpieces, Laras daddy Issues, Linear levels, Guided platforming (if you don't understand what this means, that's what the "grooves in wall" are supposed to be) and gimmicky shit like the grapple hook and climbing axe. It is LITERALLY the same design philosophy
How do LAUtards have such insane cognitive dissonance? Like literally look at vidrel and tell me this isn't the same as the meme vidrel about Tomb Raider reboot climbing setpieces.
>exploration doesn't matter if it's linear and not complex or interconnected?????
But even linear exploration can be complex and interconnected. You need to revisit some areas, and you open up new paths to get back to certain areas.
>Intuitive is LITERALLY the opposite of exploration
No, it isn't. Not everything is grooves in a wall in Legend or Underworld.
>This isn't even true? What? Why are you literally lying out of your teeth, the new games TELL you how to play the game, or remind you that you have certain abilities you can or should use but it doesn't actually tell you puzzle solutions or secrets what?
It is true. You use "survival instincts" to see anything you need to use. You can see on the map where there are secrets you may have missed, and just go back and collect them. It's going through the motions, and they hold your hand through every minute of the game. The reboots are basically an action movie that guides you between set pieces. They don't feel rewarding or challenge the player at all.
>But even linear exploration can be complex and interconnected. You need to revisit some areas, and you open up new paths to get back to certain areas.
What? That's not what interconnected or complex means are you moronic? Based on this argument, Metal Gear Solid 1, or Bioshock 1 is interconnected. Opening up new areas doesn't mean anything if everything is still simple and straightforward to find and navigate, and "revisiting" areas is LITERALLY retreading same ground, which isn't complex, just lazy. This is so vague and moronic, and none of it is even equivalent to Tomb Raider's level design anyway. Legend and Underworld levels are literally glorified hallways and corridors.
>No, it isn't. Not everything is grooves in a wall in Legend or Underworld.
Saying "no it isnt" isn't an argument, and telling that "wow bro the entire game isn't LITERALLY grooves in a wall! there are also obvious latches on the wall to use your obvious hyper specific grappling hook technique! oh-oh and also don't forget those obvious and out of place flagpoles jutting from a wall that you can swing on, or those very obvious and clear balance beams that you automatically latch to when you press forward and jump!
Like am I seriously talking to a sped? How the frick don't you understand that "grooves" is just an example? What the frick man? Is this actually the best that the Tomb Raider community has to offer? What the frick am I doing here man.
>It is true. You use "survival instincts" to see anything you need to use.
And this is different from interacting with every obviously interactable object till you solve the puzzle? Whether you have survival instincts or not doesn't make a puzzle suddenly good if you can brute force it regardless, also you're WAY overblowing how relevant survival instincts are, they don't literally solve puzzles for you, just make it clear what u can interact with, which is still shit but not much worse than LAU. Watch Joseph Andersons review.
OK, now I realize I'm talking to an actual moron. You prefer to have your simple little hand held, and I don't. Makes sense that we wouldn't agree.
Convenient how you didn't address any of my arguments and tried to paint my argument as "likes having hand held" despite me literally saying:
>also you're WAY overblowing how relevant survival instincts are, they don't literally solve puzzles for you, just make it clear what u can interact with, which is still shit but not much worse than LAU
if anybody should be calling anybody a moron, it should be me to you. Because you're reading comprehension is so poor that despite me literally touting the classics as more and better than both LAU and Reboots:
>Goodbye Lara, I'll try to remember you infinitely through all the TRLE editor levels
>which isn't complex, just lazy. This is so vague and moronic, and none of it is even equivalent to Tomb Raider's level design anyway (forgot to put "equivalent to classic Tomb Raiders design, but a little reading comprehension, wouldn't make that necessary, since it'd be an obvious contradiction to say LAU or Reboots aren't equivalent to their own level design. Logic 101.)
This cope is literally pathetic, the only reason im responding to this is because you've basically already admitted concession, and I just want to destroy you once and for all.
>>No, it isn't. Not everything is grooves in a wall in Legend or Underworld.
Saying "no it isnt" isn't an argument, and telling that "wow bro the entire game isn't LITERALLY grooves in a wall! there are also obvious latches on the wall to use your obvious hyper specific grappling hook technique! oh-oh and also don't forget those obvious and out of place flagpoles jutting from a wall that you can swing on, or those very obvious and clear balance beams that you automatically latch to when you press forward and jump!
still didn't address the fact I countered your moronic point about grooves.
Or how LAU's linear exploration is good or hard to navigate.
I'll take my dub and you can go cry about your subjective opinion of me being a "moron" while I actually justify mine.
>Legend and Underworld
>great exploration
NTA but the levels were pretty comfy in those games.
Good for you, they were still linear as hell for the most part. That does not translate into great exploration, or much exploration at all.
The fact that I had to spell this out for lil bro and got called a moron for proving its linear like the reboots is crazy to me, sometimes I can never tell what's left or right with this place because of how confidently they assert things, even when I prove it wrong. This place unfortunately is truly horrible for discussion, maybe Twitter tier, we're past fricking reddit man.
The last game used the og design. It's over reboot trannies
who the frick cares if it's gameplay isn't Tomb Raider, also this is unironic mobile game tier shit. Even worse, it's literally "Netflix Gaming" lmao.
Because it means everyone knows the reboot isn't liked and the classics are more well liked. It means we are unlikely to get another moronic reboot Lara game
Dark Souls 1 is pretty much linear. Still has a reputation for having top tier level design and exploration, and rightfully so, with complex and interconnected paths. It never tells you where to go, and you have to figure it out on your own by exploring. Legend and Underworld are not at that tier, but it's the same concept within some of the individual levels. You're so narrow-minded and biased it doesn't even warrant a response, I'm just bored as hell about to go to sleep. Reboots are literally hand-holding bullshit for kids and morons like you, and don't compare to the previous games.
I honestly just hope they kill the series at this point. I don't even care anymore. It would have been actually nice to see where Core (the original team) would have taken the series in the modern day, but the reboots, their success, and how people think about and view the games here, is proof that the reboots were successful for a reason and modern gaming stifles creativity, and nobody cares.
Haydee's platforming clearly draws from classic Tomb Raider.
>LAU schizo is back
>LAU tards don't actually care about Tomb Raider and are fine defending and rationalizing their cognitive dissonance about the fact that LAU is closer to reboots than classic because atleast "Lara" is still wearing booty shorts and I can coom like the moronic NPC I am!
Yeah, we deserve the reboots. Tomb Raider is dead. And we (you) killed it.
The reboot games were so shit it killed the entire franchise
Blame Square Enix then. Those dumbasses selling their catalogue of games for peanuts was also dumb.
No they didn't, they sold the most in the entire franchise. And the person above who said it costed 100 more is moronic, yes it costed alot, but they met their profit margin soon after the initial sales weren't enough. You can literally check Wikipedia for this, it doesn't take a genius. The games were objectively successful, but Ganker is unironically /misc/ tier with their moronic conspiracies and narratives they need to explain away why things they don't like, happen.
The reason they stopped making further games is because Square Enix is moronic and switched them to focusing on that moronic Avengers game. Square sold them off because the buyer was unironically moronic and offfered literally too much to resist, + Square Enix obviously is too incompetent to handle that many IP's anymore.
The games will come back, they literally announced a plan for a new game, if Tomb Raider was truly dead this wouldn't even be happening.
Lol moron cope. They had such huge budgets that every single reboot gane under performed so they sold the franchise at a loss. Seethe zoomer
Why are you defending a shit trilogy so hard? Are you underage?
You guys are genuinely so fricking moronic, I wish you would all be unironically shot in the neck, so that it doesn't actually hit your wind pipe and you can be thrown into a ditch and buried alive to suffer bleeding out till your dead.
/pop/ and its consequences have been a disaster for every fricking moronic board on this moronic site.
IF YOURE NOT OBJECTIVE, AND DONT ACKNOWLEDGE OR UNDERSTAND REALITY, YOUR ANALYSIS IS FRICKING MEANINGLESS. The fact that I even have to explain to morons, that your delusional narrative that Tomb Raider flopped osmt real, and that you HAVE to acknowledge that and not continue pretending "actually It flopped so they definitely know its bad and won't keep making the same thing because of all the complaints I've personally seen on Ganker!" Like FRICK. None of you actually care about Tomb Raider, none of you care about the games, you just want to participate in moronic culture war where you can pretend you're on the right side for delusionally thinking "woke shit" fails, because it conforms to your moronic worldview and makes you feel comfortable in your delusion. Rather than actually addressing why and how something succeeds, and how that should be addressed or countered by fans.
The reality is that the reboots have successfully redefined Tomb Raider and because of its convenient design, it was able to appeal more broadly, and make it so that people would be less and less tolerant to any change that would truly be unique and truly stand out that wasn't a symptom of modern game design in QTE's Open world/Linear setpieces etc. The fact that the LAU games were tolerated despite how much they changed is exactly why Reboot is tolerated, except it was actually successful because it was a good product for consumers to lap up mindlessly, because the average consumer has no standards and doesn't care about Tomb Raider and its gameplay identity, just like LAU morons.
Lol the Tomb raider remake was a financial failure. It literally cost 200 times more to develop than the remake.
>the buyer was unironically moronic
Are you stupid?
Enforcer Group or whatever it's called bought the TR, Deus Ex and Legacy of Kain franchises for $300M. And just few months after that they rented the Tomb Raider brand alone for $300M
Lol when every game sells below expectations abd you sell it but it was a success!
Tomb Raider reboot cost 100 million dollars to make plus 100 million to market. The average PS1 game cost around 2 million or less to make. Literally 100 times more
I can't tell if you guys are unironically moronic or just delusional? Tomb Raider reboot sold double the amount of the highest selling classic game and sold for more at release. As well as the Wikipedia literally objectively saying they met their profit margin later on. Nobody's denying it wasn't costly. But it was more than successful enough to create an entire trilogy's worth, and the Second game also sold more than the classics.
>Sold twice as much
>Cost 200 times more to develop
Fricking lol. Zoomers ard moronic. Even Square said every reboot gane was a financial disappointed then sold the franchise
>both games sold around the same number of units. This is why the original Tomb Raider was seen as a massive success while the reboot has been declared to be a financial failure by square Enix.
Both of these are literally objectively untrue? It was literally the most successful Tomb Raider Launch in the entire Franchises History, and the entire company's, history. It broke multiple records for sales. Yes it costed a lot and initially didn't meet profitability but:
>In January 2014, Scot Amos, executive producer ofTomb Raider, revealed that at the end of 2013 the game achieved profitability.[119]On 3 February,Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition, a re-release forPlayStation 4andXbox One, debuted atop the UK charts.[120]Gallagher predicted on March 6 that the game would surpass 6 million units by the end of the month.[121]By April 2015, Gallagher announced that the sales had reached 8.5 million, making the game the best-sellingTomb Raidertitle to date.[122]As of October2021, the game has sold more than 14.5 million copies.[123][124]
You guys are genuinely fricking delusional, no amount of cope and seethe can change the fact that the games were OBJECTIVELY successful, and objectively more successful than the classics, and that is a problem you can't pretend to handwave. Handwaving it only justifies it, because reality moves on whether you like it or not, and everybody who's not delusional lile the consumers and the devs will continue buying up the future slop that they will continue making because consumer buys are telling them to. You guys don't actually care about Tomb Raider, you just want a culture war to seethe about meaninglessly. You're all pathetic and unprincipled.
You're the reasons why Tomb Raider is this way. Because you're too pathetic to actually acknowledge and confront reality. You exist only to get mad to delude yourself into the notion that you can feel something and it can matter.
So it sold 2 times more but cost 200 more times to make. The definition of a failure
Do you not understand how math works? What context is? Am I speaking to unironic morons I need to baby through basic Economics? Nah, how bout you demonstrate and justify exactly how much more classic Tomb Raider made before I even consider engaging with your point. And support it with objective data as I did.
You really are underage. Investment is based on return percentage. 500,000 to sell 7 million units is objectively a bigger return on investment than $130 million to sell 8 million units.
Doing some digging, PS1 games costed between $40-50 around that time.
7mill x $50 = 350,000,000 - 500,000 (cost) = 345,000,000
Now let's compare the lowest selling Reboot Tomb Raider game.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider:
8.9 million x $60 =534,000,000 - 135,000,000 (cost) = 400,000,000
Even the lowest selling game still makes more money than the highest selling classic game EVEN with the 200 times cost. And before your moronic enough to say "shouldn't it be making even more money though?" That's not how the fricking market works, it always evens out and plateaus in the end, you'll make more in the modern day, but not abundantly more without live services and DLC. And remember this is THE LOWEST selling game, compared to the highest selling old game. We're not even having an even comparison.
Lol moronic zoomer doesn't understand ROI and thinks publishers make $60 for each game sold. You are literally underage
Make a counter argument then objectively proving this, then, because you haven't said anything of value either. And If you cope "we don't have all the information!" then every single one of your prior claims is void too. Atleast I provided objectively supported data, and actually tried to justify my arguments.
Fricking moronic zoomer. Publishers only make $15 for every $60 unit sold. The fact you literally think they make $60 shows how underage you are and you still don't understand ROI
I wish there was a single objective soul in this board that actually cared about anything and could confirm that it feels like im having a bunch of jargon thrown at me without actually proving the contexual relevance of any of that information or the proof of anything, and it's just a altered version of gishgallop where a bunch of arguments are thrown randomly together to make it seem like there's a stronger point than there is and is simply playing on the fact that it would be tedious to deconstruct and address every random term thrown.
This doesn't feel like a discussion or argument. But like some snobby pretense of superior knowledge, without actually backing it up.
Look, I made my arguments, and not a single one of you has actually countered them, you just keep saying the same irrelevant things I addressed, without proving me wrong. That's not an argument. An Argument is an engagement and back and forth exchange of ideas, you guys are yelling at me and saying I'm wrong, without actually showing it. It's presumptuous and moronic.
$130
$15 a unit sold
8.9 million units
They earned $133 million on tomb raider if we assume every game was sold at full price which they weren't. Not only that but we don't consider marketing which rule of thumb is about the same as development cost. So yes. The game lost money
None of this is backed by any objective data, while every single one of my arguments and references were. For all I know you're making up bullshit that fits your narrative. This is logically invalid because it's not falsifiable or contestable and can't be cross referenced over anything. This isn't an argument. Try again or concede. Or whine meaninglessly about how "you're actually just a dumb zoomer! keklmao! you don't know anything kek! I am totally not mad and frustrated that you countered my argument kek! (if I keep laughing it makes it seem like I'm not mad and actually superior! kek!)
Come back when you gain self awareness.
It is all objective. We know sales, budget and how much a publisher makes per game. The only thing we don't know if what percentage of games were sold at full price and what the marketing budget is but even if you assume the best chase scenario it was still a failure
>It is all objective. We know sales, budget and how much a publisher makes per game. The only thing we don't know if what percentage of games were sold at full price and what the marketing budget is but even if you assume the best chase scenario it was still a failure
You realize things aren't objective because we say so or some group of people collectively believe it right? People also collectively believed Galileo was moronic, objectively, that doesn't mean shit. Prove what you're saying or frick off. There's no fricking reason to believe anything you're saying because even IF it could be objectibe facts, they're presented out of context, and are too disconnected to cross reference and verify. This is literally like logic 101, I don't understand how I have to explain this to you like you're a child.
Holy shit this fricking cope. I literally did prove it. I posted the sales, budget and times it by how much square makes per unit sold.
>I literally did prove it. I posted the sales, budget and times it by how much square makes per unit sold.
"Holy shit cope! I literally did prove it, even without any referenced sources, or falsifiable information!"
Okay, I realize it now, you guys are genuinely and unironically moronic and understand nothing about logic or objectivity.
"I literally said my objective opinion is true! So it's true! Holy shit stop coping! You're the moron." Lmao why do I even bother with these sub 80 iq morons with zero self awareness.
You are so moronic you literally thought publishers made $60 for each unit sold and you don't know what ROI is
Not an argument lmao? I guess this is REAL cope? When you can't prove anything wrong, just throw jargon and make cheap digs at precieved lack of knowledge to make yourself feel better that "even though I can't argue against his point! atleast I know something that I said he didn't know even though he accounted for that in his calculations! lmao! I'm not delusional and moronic! the sun god told me so last night!"
$130
$15 a unit sold
8.9 million units
They earned $133 million on tomb raider if we assume every game was sold at full price which they weren't. Not only that but we don't consider marketing which rule of thumb is about the same as development cost. So yes. The game lost money
this post is why businesses overrun by troons and homosexuals are going in the shitter
>i can do mafs
>mafs wit mony
>bigga numba moor than big numba
And to think, you only had to spend 209 times more to develop it!
Are you actually moronic? All games nowadays compared to their age old counterparts can be cherry picked to say "it costs 200 times more lmao!" Without looking at the context of the fact that games are more successful and have wider and broader appeal now more than ever. That they last longer, and can milk money easier. How fricking moronic do you have to be to think the industry is moronic enough to spend 200 times more if they aren't making way more bank? Holy frick you guys are moronic.
But it's not more successful it was a failure. Shadow of the tomb raider cost 260 times more than the original but only sold slightly more than the original.
Clearly not since square said it was a disappointment and sold the franchise
That doesn't fricking mean anything, we don't even know the context of why they sold it, and who the frick cares what square said? I haven't even seen any objective proof that square actually said this, and I have objective information that suggests otherwise, literally frick off morons.
Provide objective proof of this, or nothing you said means anything.
He's wrong. It actually cost MORE than 100 times to make. Tomb Raider 1 had a budget of $500,000 while rise of the tomb raider cost $130 million to make. 250 times more
Which youtuber reviewed Tomb Raider?
I took a look out of curiosity and seems like it's been a handful of 12k to 200k channels that've taken a look at it within the last three years. A couple pretty recently but I wasn't familiar with any of them. I think it's mostly one autist. And one genuine anon who's actually plaything through the games right now but that one made a thread earlier today about beating Opera House in TR2 and they thought they might like TR2 better than 1. Perhaps the autist and the anon are the same. I've been playing through the series too recently so any time I've seen a thread I'll bump it, hadn't made one yet though. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
Anyone who says the original Tomb Raider games don’t have precise controls simply doesn’t know what “precise” actually means. The controls are TOO precise which is why you keep falling off ledges that aren’t aligned to the grid system. Use the walk key you monkeys, after that Lara will PRECISELY jump the same distance in the direction you’re facing.
It's pretty much a one of a kind series. I call it what could be described as a "technical platformer" where the game is ruled by the grid system and you have to remember which moves make you move which amount of spaces for what you want to do and as a result it's pretty slow by design. Most people especially in the modern era don't have the patience for that.
I love how the water and the lighting look in Open Lara.
Unironically Assassin's creed series has some tomb exploration and platforming parts that reminded me of the original TR games. They should've copied those parts for the reboot instead of Uncharted.
too fast, not tomb raider, doesn't interconnect, or loop on itself, or have multiple layers above and under, nor does it include enough verticality.
Remake games? You mean Anniversary? Because that game was pretty alright (I don't think it's as 10/10 as other people make it out to be but it's still pretty good). In the case of the reboots, idk man I liked TR2013 and Rise, Shadow can suck dick though but the walking sim dlc was neat. In my honest opinion I don't think the series really got worse, it just had a few blunders like Chronicles existing, AoD being unfinished as frick, Underworld being what it is. The only other games I can think of that do TR justice are the Uncharted series and the vastly underrated "Indiana Jones and The Emporers Tomb" game.
This zoomer itt not understanding investment is based on percentage.