Primaris Marines were supposed to replace Firstborn modes. And there is even the Gravis Armor which is obviously the Terminator equivalent.
Why haven't they gone all the way?
Why are they making new Terminator Armor?
Primaris Marines were supposed to replace Firstborn modes. And there is even the Gravis Armor which is obviously the Terminator equivalent.
Why haven't they gone all the way?
Dunno, who cares, hh marines are the only marines worth a damn
Truescale terminators, bro.
Despite what you may think, the terminator is too damn iconic to the brand for it to just fade away.
What they really need to do is give terminators their full weapon kit. Bring back heavy flamers and plasma cannons, and give the swords back their parry ability.
>beakies everywhere
>no mk2 or mk3 kits
No, anon, you are mistaken.
Don't need mk2, but mkvi being the poster child is a fricking shame. The beakies are fine, but the shouldn't be the fricking default.
What's worse is literally the only reasons MK6 is the default are that MK5's studded panels would be a pain to plastic mold and the head of Specialist Games is a massive RT weeb.
Early Heresy should be dominated by MKs 2 & 4, mid-late Heresy should be dominated by MK5 with situational appearances by MKs 4 & 6. Yes yes yes, models aren't "THE LORE" and MK5 is still written as being common, but in practice you never fricking see it and MK6 is the new "face of the heresy" just as Andy prostitute planned.
> no mk3 kits
Anon those were shown off months ago and are already out.
Not the good kit we used to have.
The new one is based
Only five poses for 20 men boxes (same as the previous one in MK.VI) no chainsaw, no heavy weapons, no combi, no thunder hammer, and mostly that ugly redraw of an iconic models, they just had to make like the terminators, same aesthetic but true scale.
>Despite what you may think, the terminator is too damn iconic to the brand for it to just fade away.
Unlikely given that they axed Cadians and the instantly identifiable SM grill helmets. Everything that made the Dawn of War era popular is gone.
I have one of the big unpainted space marines on my desk and the only thing I wish for is that it had a MK VII helmet instead of whatever this bullshit is.
>Axed Cadians
Blowing up that worthless pylon farm was what got us a full range refresh of Cadians- and I'm not going to lie, anything that gets guard more infantry models is fine by me.
I just think the Astra Militarum Scion uniforms are really ugly compared to cadian fatigues and flak.
I absolutely detest the Tempestus Scions' look, and I use Kasrkins with a head swap and some extra bits to make my own Scions regiment.
Mk3's already out, and they've scattered Mk2 bits across various vehicle kits, so the files are presumably there and a kit's in the pipeline
>the heavy bolters in the mk4 and old mk3 kit are one handed and perfect for kitbashing onto the new terminators
>not a legal loadout
Futurama explains why
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GW is now pretending that primaris never happened. Which is honestly their smartest move in a while. These are just refreshed terminator models.
>GW is now pretending that primaris never happened
Is that why dozens of iconic trueborn units were put in the legends closet with 10th and every single remade character model gets PRIMARISED?
They're truescale marines with a "technology refresh" to get you to buy more models. How are you so sperged by this realization? It's the same song and dance that capitalism has been playing since the 70s; is 50 years of the same neoliberal shit not enough of a baseline for you?
Yet CSM got updated sculpts with better scaling without all the lore-raping nonsense of primaris. Weird how that works.
"Truescale" marines with 2+ wounds was a good idea, and long overdue tbh.
I've said it before- but I think GW's lore people were overcomplicating shit and probably needed to be reeled in when they schemed out Primaris Lore. I'll greentext what it should have been:
>Cawl gets tasked by Bobby G to analyze the combat capability of Space Marines after Legions are broken down into Chapters to identify any shortcomings in wargear in relation to the new doctrine of the Codex Astartes and propose solutions
>Bobby G gets neck slashed, Cawl's research and ideas get rebuffed by AdMech, Space Marines in Chapters use worse shit than they had in the Heresy and are overall sub-optimal because progress bad
>Bobby G comes back, Cawl's still around- and Bobby G asks him to turn in his homework
>"Primaris" isn't a type of Space Marine, it's an updated combat doctrine and wargear initiative to make Chapters more efficient
>Space Marines are still just Space Marines- they're just using newer equipment and tactics designed for Chapters and smaller strike forces.
I think this as a 'lore' support behind it would have been far better received than the current Primaris lore.
I like the idea except its the polar opposite in reality, primaris doctrine/loadouts is far closer to legion tactics where marines were mono loadout and spent their whole career in or adjacent to a certain specialty unless they got pegged for command while 40k era tacticals are flexible masters of everything their chapter uses with years of experience on every single weapon system they have and varied squad loadouts to tackle dynamic situations
Bro you are seething about something that even GW is ignoring happened now. Primaris and firstborn keywords are out, the terminology is gone, they don't mention the rubicon or any of that shit anymore. It's just in your head now.
CSM lore has been raped every codex with dumber and dumber shit and is completely on par with how bad primaris lore is
And don't act like all the weird additions to the marine range didn't rape the lore then. How did they innovate all those vehicles and weapon types if technology was supposed to be stagnant? Oh, I know, it's because you started in X edition and that's where it's supposed to stagnate!
> they don't mention the rubicon or any of that shit anymore
NTA This is absolutely false and the books actively reference the new organs
>Oh, I know, it's because you started in X edition and that's where it's supposed to stagnate!
This
It’s always funny for people to complain and whine about this as if the codexes don’t talk about subsectors and major worlds that have their own unique techlogies developed or researched. Like there’s an entire forge world that’s specialized in researching Xenos tech. Or the fact that the space marines have always consistently gotten new toys in lore while every one else slapped rocks together. How many chapters have super secret designs they developed in house nobody cries about. The damn Dark Angels literally should have no ability to even maintain the deathwing if these people were correct about the technological productivity of the imperium
>"REEE YOU CAN'T HAVE COOL TECH ADVANCEMENTS IN 40K BECAUSE CANON LORE SAY SO!"
>[shows a dozen instance of cool tech advancements actually occurring in the canon lore]
>"REEEE THAT'S NOT HOW 40K IS SUPPOSED TO BE!"
Most of the horse shit that wheezing neckbeards claim is "canon" is really just their personal demand for what 40k should be rather than what it is, and it has never been what they want it to be no matter how often they repeat their headcanon memes.
Bull. Stuff like the Stormraven was filling evident gaps in the marine armoury- that doesn't mean the model was any good, or that planes belong in 40k.
The idea that marines have a smaller dropship than the thunderhawk is fine in principle- just as it would be fine to introduce a guard lander that drops whole regiments (not that this would fit the scale of the game)
None of this is advancement of the marine armoury in lore, like tech marines macguyvering new tech in M41 to fight thekroot or Archmagi releasing a new powerfist or whatever
It's fleshing out the armoury in lore- showing us what else the marines use, which they don't do anymore unless they've a model to shill since the chapterhouse shenanigans
You're preaching to the choir when it comes to flyers, and most of the vehicles in 40k.
I think bringing jets and colossal monsters and tanks the size of a Wendy's is a huge chunk of what's wrong with 40k, and they were a massive mistake overall.
If a large chunk of the things that are actually described in the fluff and black library books were ever produced as models- most of these whinging grognards would lose their fricking nugget
at one point, terminator armor and land raiders could not be produced by the imperium, that is based and so much more grimdank than frick halo spartans that the primaris are turning into with their eldar tier BULLSHIT
Yeah dude that totally mattered or was the case outside of your headcanon in any campaign codex or event in which a bunch of terminators get assblasted and they go on a essay long spree about how the first company will never recover from this get fricking real and learn the damn setting you homosexuals won’t stop b***hing about
You are as bad as GW writers with your utter contempt for the fricking setting of the game, pissy little moron shill.
>"Why does GW do a thing?"
Because you stupid fricks keep buying it. Seriously, though- the Terminators are kind of iconic, and the Gravis armor kinda looks moronic. I'd take these over Gravy Boys any day- and otherwise I prefer the look of most Primaris Marines, I just don't buy them any more and don't play- because GW constantly cranking out shit for Space Marines means that rules constantly keep changing, shit keeps being invalidated, and I'd rather just keep what I've got, paint a cool model every now and then- and play Necromunda or something.
melee gravis when
give me some fricking hoplite gravis with spear and shields
>Gravis armor
>Terminator equivalent
Not really. They are closer to centurions but non moronic.
Aggressors was clearly an attempt at nuTermies, they even have pretty much the same weapons, power fist + heavy bolter equivalent. They obviously expanded it with gravis jump pack guys, gravis tactical squad and gravis anti tank guys (even though hellblasters already are a thing).
Same with phobos being an attempt at nuScouts, good thing reivers flopped so hard or else we'd probably have 5 more flavors of skintight jeans marines.
Centurions are an abortion and GW pretends they don't exist.
Ruleswise they've always been distinct. Phobos and scouts were arguably the same, quality aside. Same for Intercessors and tactical marines or assault marines and assault intercessors.
You could be right, I do think they were meant as a replacement. But frankly the two of them don't feel like the same unit and never really did.
I like centurions
Same.
The weird rockmuncher things they tend to have look really stupid but the armor itself seems alright. The necessary revisions seem like they'd be pretty minor to make the units look properly. good.
The biggest flaw with the Centurion model IMO is how the suggested placement of the thigh-plate things completely obliterates the suggestion of a functional set of hips and makes it look like the suit can barely move. Simply moving them down a bit so the hips are visible and you can see that he can in fact move his legs makes a lot of difference. It also makes them look a bit more person-shaped instead of being a rectangular box with arms sticking out the sides.
Pathetic.
>Why haven't they gone all the way?
Because they are backpeddling, but only to a sort of half-way point. They realized the original plan of total primaris replacement, gravis replacing termis and phobos scourts, was too far and pissing too many people off. But they are also aware that too many people actually do like the primaris, and more importantly they have sunk so much into the primaris line, that practically they can't undo what has been done.
So now things will forever remain in an awkward half way space.
This is not so bad, innumerable worse futures were possible, and this odd median where all future 40k releases are mostly primaris, but HH still leads to older styles of marine continuing to be made, can in many ways satisfy both interests, but for the more autistic at either extreme end of preference.
Literally the only old marines that are leftover at this point are tactical and vanguard veterans. The fact they didn't dump iconic units like Terminators or Scouts doesn't mean things are going to remain in a awkward half way space.
Vang Vets are clearly going to get an update like Sternguard at some point. Tac Squad, I'm 99% convinced will be just gone by the next edition.
Tactical marines and Devastators are in a weird place. I want to say you are right, but both still sell like hotcake apparently. Vanguards are 100% going to get a update while Centurions and Predators are almost certainly just going to be removed/moved to being HH only.
> both still sell like hotcake apparently
GWs sales divisions don't fricking talk to each other so they pull sales numbers out of their webstore orders, and as the webstore is basically the only way to get tac and devestator marines, it looks like they sell better than they actually do.
You could be right, I don't know.
Devastators have also been a consistently good unit, which complicates matters.
I dunno, ask /40kg/
Cause it's part of their plan of getting folks to replace their old models for the new ones, don't get it twisted, the entire purpose of the primaris launch was to subtlety get the grogs to shelf the old models and buy the new expensive crap. Judging by how it's going, I'm guessing they've succeeded.
>Gravis Armor which is obviously the Terminator equivalent.
Gravis is the MK3 equivalent. Primaris is an excuse to fix the scale and port over ideas that proved popular in HH. Same weapon squads, Primarchs and Different armour marks for legion/chapter flavour.
They already replaced a chunk of firstborn with Primaris equivalents.
To this day Primaris are a moronic concept and GW should've given people those true-scale models instead along with reworking those that didn't work well like Centurions.
Primaris are as moronic a concept as space marines themselves. I don’t know why people drank the koolaid and thought space marines were a super special snowflake despite having like 4-5 different iterations
Where the hell do you think Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and Dark Angels manage to get their Terminator armor from despite being routinely decimated
>why is [COMPANY] making [PRODUCT]?
it's a mystery, anon.
GW wanted to refresh SM line, problem was unlike xenos, guard and any other faction that get's 1 model each edition, marines got range refresh in 4th, then some nice models in 5th then refresh in 6th and replacements in 7th, tacticals, assaults and devastators were all brand new kits(at this time sisters were still full metal, guard based on 2003 models and only xeno faction with not 4th or older ed core were dark eldars who got redesign in 5th), so GW had a problem, how to sell more marines in new kits because selling same kit with 1 additional weapon kinda defeats the point and replacing 3 main squads of marines while they are still brand new don't do good for sales, this is when they came up with primaris, new armor, new weapon, new squad compsitions so you can't use your classic marines, new lore that they are better, rules that make them better and distinct and they only ever use their own stuff no old shit allowed, so now you got 2 marine armies, trueborn for people who hate primaris and primaris for new kids, you are selling 2 armies great, now primaris from GW perspective weren't designed as new marines to replace trueborn because gW don't give frick they were designed as way to sell you more new marines kits, now they no longer mention primaris, there is no distinction between firstbron and primaris, and release old units like sternguards and terminators as primaris, now you see real purpose of primaris introduction, selling you more core marine kits despite fact they got their core updated not long ago.
In 11th or 12th ed don't be suprised if you see some fancy-name™ unit that is just tactical squad but in MK X. We alredy got assault marines.
tl;dr Firstborn-Primaris split never mattered it was plot to sell you more marines by making better ones that don't cooperate with old ones at beggining but ultimately they are just space marine range reflresh.
Looks cool.
Sounds cool.
Gravis looks lane and sounds moronic.
Because every single new Space Marine design looks like shit.
Unironically this. The straight updates of existing models have been fine, for the most part. Shrike is a mess and all of the jump pack units so far have been kind of unnecessarily busy, but the bog-standard Intercessors with bolt rifles look like the platonic ideal of a Space Marine and most of the other characters have been closely referenced to their first and second edition art.
But the stuff that's "new" just to force you to buy new models has been a train wreck. Aggressors are trash, Suppressors are trash, Invader ATVs are trash, Desolators are trash - and this has been reflected in the sales of these kits.
Sure, some meta-chasing butthole is gonna run a dozen Inceptors with heavy plasma pistols because of a poorly edited codex, and that's gonna move some inventory, but the vast majority of these kits have no reason to exist and are hideous to look at.
So we New Coke it, just like
demonstrated. Nobody fricking wants these things, they want Sternguard Veterans and Indomitus Terminators. And that's what we're getting, because GW understands that you can try to sell what you want, or you can sell what the customer wants, and only one of the two is gonna make you any money.
I like most Gravis units. Frankly prefer them over Centurions.
>prefer them over Centurions.
that's not a high bar to pass
You misunderstood.
They're not replacing Firstborn. They're replacing the term space marine for the Primaris™®©©®®™™©™™© name because it can be better trademarked.
Given enough time, terminators will be called something else too for the same reasons.
The Gravis Armor is beefier than a regular mark10, but you wouldn't call it tactical dreadnought armor now, would you?
Long story short, firstborns are not phased out, the term space marine will be or at least be overshadowed with terms GW can better trademark.
Oh, and they make truescale terminators because about fricking time they do.
If I see feetballs, I don't buy it. They're moronic looking, don't add anything to the gothic visual aspect, and don't serve any purpose other than to make it so GW can prevent people from using actual Marines in place of Paymoreis.
They're never going back. Keep coping.
Because they’ve realized that throwing away their iconic and beloved designs in favour of tacticool garbage was a horrible mistake, albeit far too late.
frick gravis armor
heretical shit
Who needs terminators when you have 2 plasma guns and a jetpack?
>someone was actually paid money to design this
shit like this made me despise everything primaris
Not sure if I hate these or the grav tanks more.
Grav Tanks 100%. I can live with goofy looking flying marines. But hover tanks was always a tau and eldar (ie alien) thing, while humans had the lumbering armor. Space marines having high speed/mid armor tanks all based around the rhino was great.
Have to disagree on that one. With the how SM are meant to be a highly mobile strike force their tanks being more like gunships suits them more imo.
>their tanks being more like gunships
The Imperium isn't supposed to have large, armored hover vehicles, because they aren't supposed to be technologically capable of it. They weren't during the Great Crusade, so they shouldn't be now. It also goes against the theme of Marines to have hovering tanks instead of loud, lumbering, treaded tanks. They're supposed to be a down-in-the-mud, brute force army.
Grav tanks are the domain of Eldar, Tau and Necrons to represent their more sophisticated approach to war. Giving grav tanks to marines (and grav bikes to NuSquats) detracts from them as well as ruining Marines.
Marine tanks are supposed to be mobile late Cold War vehicles compared to the lumbering WWI/WWII behemoths of the Imperial Guard.
That doesn't have anything to do with crap like the Impulsor or Repulsor.
Anyways, a Land Raider resembles a WW1 tank more than anything Cold War. It isn't even a tank in a strict sense, but a large IFV (like your pic), which wasn't a vehicle class in ww2, but technically was in ww1, although the designation didn't exist at the time.
>Not really. It depends on the chapters.
...
>Eldar aren't a fast, hard-hitting army, it depends on the Craftworld
>Orks aren't a brutal, unpredictable army, it depends on the Clan
>Tyranids aren't...
>Frankly, I dislike Marines having vechiles in the first place.
They definitely should have a limited arsenal of vehicles. There's also a reason both of their original vehicle chassis are transports.
>Frankly, I dislike Marines having vechiles in the first place.
They definitely should have a limited arsenal of vehicles. There's also a reason both of their original vehicle chassis are transports.
I'm onboard with this, they should be so awesome they don't need tanks and it has always felt weird to have a Space Marine consigned to driving a vehicle
To expand: I think it was a mistake to even have the Rhino as a Marine vehicle in the first place. It's basically just Land Raider (but better!). It serves the same combat role. It's also a practical matter; either the original Rhino design would have been made for Marines (who would need their own vehicles, owing to their height and the bulk of their armor), or it would have been made for ordinary men, but allegedly it was utilized by both. Instead, the Land Raider should always have been the standard multi-role Marine armored vehicle, albeit slightly worse and correspondingly less expensive.
Wait, what? I'm admit I'm behind on the lore but I thought the Rhino was a basic metal box transport vehicle that was basically made of paper, and the Lander Raider was a heavily armoured transport that was kind of a big deal because it had guns and could also hold terminators.
The Land Raider was also more widely used in pre-Heresy and Heresy, until supply lines got fricked up and the Emperor declared Land Raiders for marines only.
No, you're not wrong (although the Rhino is only "lightly"-armored relative to the Land Raider). What I mean is that aside from being able to transport Terminators, a Land Raider is basically just an "elite" Rhino. The Rhino is an APC* as opposed to the Land Raider being an IFV**, but a Rhino can still be easily modified into an IFV, and there's nothing preventing a Land Raider from being down-gunned to become a larger capacity APC.
They have too much overlap with each other, which would be fine for the Imperial Guard or something, but a Marine chapter should want to have a small vehicle inventory.
* Armored Personnel Carrier. An armored transport vehicle with only minimal weaponry, not intended for direct combat.
**Infantry Fighting Vehicle. An armored transport with heavier weaponry intended to fight alongside its infantry squad after they have disembarked.
>They're supposed to be a down-in-the-mud, brute force army.
Not really. It depends on the chapters.
Frankly, I dislike Marines having vechiles in the first place. But if they must have vehicles I think of something like a stormhawk. Ugly bricks like Land Raiders and Rhinos have always been a mistake.
> The Imperium isn't supposed to have large, armored hover vehicles, because they aren't supposed to be technologically capable of it. They weren't during the Great Crusade, so they shouldn't be now. It also goes against the theme of Marines to have hovering tanks instead of loud, lumbering, treaded tanks.
Maybe, uscaling a grav plate and sticking a tank on top isn't shattering my immersion. The tanks still look fundamentally imperial.
> They're supposed to be a down-in-the-mud, brute force army.
They're just not, theyre elite strike teams that fight outnumbered 100 to 1. Litteraly just read the most cursory codex fluff.
> Giving grav tanks to marines (and grav bikes to NuSquats) detracts from them as well as ruining Marines.
Imo phobos, specialised units like desolators and Primarchs leading their chapters when their whole identify has been shaped by their millennia spanning absence is ruining marines. Existing technology upscaled is not one of them.
one of my biggest gripes with primaris designs apart from a lot of them completely ignoring established marine strategy and doctrine as well as sensible design is the apparent disregard for acknowledging that there's a space marine inside the armor
like how there's shock absorbers and stabilizers on all the jetpack primaris which is silly because marine physiology is made to withstand way more shock and pressure than what flying about as an inceptor or suppressor would subject them to even before the concept of the primaris upgrades existed
just shut the frick up
dont ask questions
consume product
get excited for next product
Not going to pretend the idea behind these primaris squads is any more inherently silly than heavy bolter squads or fricking dual claw wielding flying jetpack squads are.
They just don't look as cool.
they are sillier
suppressors are flying devastators that dont have any space on their person for the ammunition to perform as a heavy weapon's squad and no rules or writing to reflect that they're only good for short term engagements before needing to resupply
even suggesting that devastators who forgo mobility for heavy weaponry and the ammunition or power backs to feed that heavy weaponry or strapping a jump pack to a melee unit is sillier is delusion
There’s a reason the inceptors have all that shit plus the heat shield helmet and it’s because they can jump from special transports from LEO onto the battlefield to clear some space ahead of a drop pod assault. Yes, its moronic I know.
It's no less moronic than drop pods in and of themselves.
The difference is that drop pods are fricking cool and present in a plethora of scifi other than warhammer
And jetpacks from low orbit aren't?
Its all about the presentation, the inceptors lack a certain… panache that a hunk of metal slamming into the dirt before spitting out bullets and superhumans has
Yeah, the knowledge that you wasted money on the drop pod.
back in my day the drop pod slamming onto the enemy's position was clearing space for the assault
Back in your day a Tau railgun wasn't blowing the droppods up from 1000 meters. Or they weren't being immediately swarmed by nids. Or the Necrons didn't vaporize them.
Chaos Primaris 2024
whole Primaris line phased back out by 2035
>whole Primaris line phased back out by 2035
cope
>haos Primaris 2024
>whole Primaris line phased back out by 2035
I've honestly been expected EXTREMIS marines for a while, especially since that custodes story about gutting some fresh primaris for potential heresy. I also am hoenstly expecting that old squads (tactical, devs, etc) will be cycled in with new kits featuring firstborn and primaris gear, all truescaled up, by 11th edition. TO be fair, though, the FB/primaris line blurring the way it did now took longer than I expected.
last year's fluff had an entire fleet of the Indomitus Crusade going Chaos
the original Primaris sculpts are about to hit 8 years old
meanwhile the Deathwing terminators being replaced are only 4 years older, and not being replaced with Deathwing Gravis X Pummelators
at some point GW has to make a decision about whether to retain Primaris - which while popular is undoubtedly divisive and duplicates a lot of the established range, bloating out the Codex as well - or to effectively merge it with the older range, at which point you no longer have Intercessor Squads and Assault Intercessor Squads but Tactical Squads and Despoiler Squads, same as in Horus Heresy
at that stage you can cull the visually unpopular ends of each line and rationalize the offering into a single unified force where the word "Primaris" no longer means anything and armour marks are once again mingled
easiest way to do that is have them go Chaos at the next big lore shift, or the edition after that, then either dump them conceptually (unstable experiment) or maintain them but lose the internal distinction and play down the physical differences between old and new space marines
on that timeframe, 2035 is a good bet, and with the added duplication of space marine kits for Horus Heresy either 40k goes Full Primaris by then or things just get muddier
the blackstone stuff they started mentioning in 2017 and never did anything with is apparently coming back with the new AdMech codex, so at some point Cawl's gonna figure out how to sew up the galactic anus and a lot of the early Primaris lore will be finished with, assuming they don't make that decision with some kind of interactive thing, in which case the entire line might end and be rebooted, AoS style, with Space Marines having never been Primaris/always been Primaris
When they released the primaris, they wanted to simply re-do the sm range, but where afraid that all old timers would just stand up and leave the hobby. Because now all their armies would be obsolete. So they made up a pretty garbage story of Cawl making an even better marine (which is just bullshit, they couldn't even put a lunar gene-cult in the story about making better marines, which means its humbug).
But when they released, they where a hit. And they have regretted not making the old model line in true-scale ever since. Hell, even AoS Stormcast Eternals got a new release, with bigger and better models, and GW just plainly said "we made them bigger, because they are supposed to be bad-ass super heroes!", that was basically the explanation we got.
So now, standing with both first-born, and primaris, and a goofy storyline, they are forced a bit to eat the shit they made, and new first-born models are one of the things they try to "blend in" with primaris.
>"we made them bigger, because they are supposed to be bad-ass super heroes!"
So sick of this grug-brain shit.
>
why do terminators always look like they just heard a question and they're trying to figure out if it is stupidly profound or profoundly stupid
because every one of them is listening to me over the vox as I broadcast across all channels