I've beaten the three original God of War games on the hardest difficulties. I'm not playing that shallow walkie-talkie movieslop, frick outta here.
Compare webm related to
Shit wait wrong one, no wait please come back! AAAIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE
and
>Is this really what it's like?
No it's not, don't let cherrypicked webms created by bitter Gankerirgins fool you.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>playing dmc lite
3 months ago
Anonymous
I love that we're now so far removed from the original GOW series that zoomers are claiming to be hardcore for beating this square spam game
3 months ago
Anonymous
>playing dmc lite
None of you even play action games, just regurgitate what you hear from other posers. Post clears.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It may be a square spam game but at least it doesn't pretend to be high art and respects your time by not shoving 10 hours of cutscenes and walking sections down your throat.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think that's square spam in that webm.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Button mashing barely even works on the easiest difficulty. Enemies are very aggressive and recover faster on higher difficulties and you have less resources and take a ton of damage so you would not even past the first screen by just button mashing.
It's worse
The elder Gen Alphas are turning teenagers now, they are old enough to be underage b&, they are here, right now. Their takes suck ass. If you think zoomer thoughts are disgusting, GA are going to be like remote eldritch beings, incomprehensible.
What genre? The beat 'em up genre? I think fans of that genre would probably disagree.
Also making a game more complex doesn't mean making it more fun, only specific genres like cRPGs can only gain from more complexity and even then they need some balance to really shine.
the fact that people don't think the arcade version of Turtles in Time is a garbage game, or even consider it exceptionally good, shows they don't understand beat-em-up design at all >grabs & throws are one of the fundamental aspects of crowd control >why don't we randomize grabs lol
arcade Turtles in Time was specifically made for America. meanwhile the SNES version came out in Japan too; lo & behold it's not unfair garbage and you can just do throws manually when enemies are hitstunned, because Japanese players weren't stupid enough to fall for terrible design. "well no, that's because it's a console game and arcades are unfair" nope. Simpsons similarly had a Japanese version and a global version based on its US "rebalancing" - the latter jumps through hoops to make sure you can't just get good at the game & instead forces you to spam quarters. meanwhile the Japanese version is immensely fairer https://tcrf.net/The_Simpsons_(Arcade)#Gameplay
when arcade games didn't have an end I'm sure Americans understood them better and just tried to get as much gameplay as possible out of a single coin. yet as they evolved more & developed a clearer sense of progression, something clicked in their dumb burger brains and they started thinking arcade games are something you don't even try to learn and instead credit-spam to "see the game".
Konami released crime Fighters 2/Vendetta around the same time. compared to Turtles in Time and the US version of Simpsons you can get IMMENSELY more gameplay out of just a few coins. why? cuz it wasn't made specifically for America (it had a bunch of sexual shit that had to be removed for the US) and it wasn't based on a popular license so US Konami employees didn't care enough to "rebalance" it to make it unfair.
no they didn't lol they just coin-spammed to see the game cuz they didn't care about mastery
where's the "skill" in randomized throws?
Yes. I did. This is another comment I left on one of his videos deconstructing his attempt at trying to prove why arcade games have the "Best game design" and are the historic "basis" for video gaming.
I read that when you posted it here before and it was a crock of shit. I'll try to reply if this thread doesn't max out and die
the comment is still up by the way. he didn't delete it. no wonder you're willing to lie given how disingenuous your "epic logic-owns" are!
3 months ago
Anonymous
>the comment is still up by the way
No shit moron, I literally just said "Here is another comment I left". Try reading next time.
Also, what the frick do you mean you read that when I posted it here? That's the first time I've posted that you dipshit liar.
>"we hate CASUALS and GOYSLOP. we play REAL GAMES" >is the video game version of someone who thinks Warhammer 40k has more "depth" than chess because there's more "content"
>Stop posting this every day, you gad damned fricking sperge. Also arcade games are shallow as frick moron
Fpbp
Less is more, that why AAA games are better
>too hard >or they are too low effort >make up your mind
Both. It's not complicated or difficult making a game hard. Forcing the player to take damage at intervals to ensure that they dump more quarters is not good game design. It's (ahem) "Arcade" design.
Basically this. I saw one of Electric Underground's videos a year or so ago, thought he was a nobody (which he is), and ignored him and his moronic opinions.
There are games that contain a good amount of dense gameplay, pseudoregalia comes to mind. But i already know this is just a bait thread made by some electric underground fanboy that probably can't clear NES Gradius 2
>roguelikes focus on grinding
Most don't and it's more of a accessability feature so that even nongamers can bruteforce their way through if they put in enough hours.
Too many cooks.
Too many managers trying to bloat their metrics by producing bloat.
Too much useless shit gets produced that they end up trying to cram in due to sunk cost fallacy.
Too much outsourcing done with shit communication.
No one understands flow, it's easier to just render everything into soup.
You're seriously gonna pretend that Ganker isn't elitist in the slightest? The board that prides itself on only playing the most "hardcore" games while never touching "goyslop" isn't elitist?
1. In the first place, this dude accuses Ganker of being goyslop enjoyers and defending the modern aaa.
2. Compared to the retro game fart sniffers Ganker is normie zoomer central.
It's all a sham though, Ganker is dishonest as frick and just parrots what they think they should for "board credit". It's literal npc behavior but of a different flavor in falling in line. Yet when it comes time to prove it more often than not it turns out Ganker are a bunch of casuals that all get filtered, or even more often literal gameless gays who don't play anything and just come here to b***h and culture war.
>not touching goyslop is elitist
that means you have taste and standards. i wouldn't expect you to know what either of those are though you absolute moron
false equivalency. there is "hardcore" goyslop and there is piss easy goyslop. goyslop comes in all genres and in all forms. likewise there are great "'hardcore'" games, and there are great piss easy games.
Ganker doesn't take pride in playing the most "hardcore" games. Ganker takes pride in knowing that the games others like are shit and refuse to elaborate further
>remember when a furry br with infinite ping crushed reddit's elite team at tribes?
The glory belongs to the players who won that match, you're like a cuck bragging about how his wife came twice when all you did was watch and jerk off.
Dude, the number of times i asked for proof about beating certain difficulty and this Black folk just refuse to give proof because they know they'd be exposed is aatonishingly high
>discord / twitter screenshots and drama
nobody cares for this shit
anyone who posts screencaps of social media is a normie that doesn't fit in here in the 1st place
who the hell cares
>appeal to authority on an anonymous imageboard
That's how you recognize r*dditors, attacking the messenger and not the message, still waiting for a single proper argument to debunk his post btw.
Contra and Super Contra Famicom versions were better than the arcade versions by a mile.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Not by a mile, but they were a bit better. Ninja Gaiden as well. But those are just the 1% outliers, 99% of arcade versions were better than home ports
3 months ago
Anonymous
Arcade games were just cheap throw away experiences compared to what was on the Famicom.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're a moron and haven't cleared any of these games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I've beaten Metal Slug on 1 credit plenty of times. It's well designed unlike most arcade games and every other game in the series.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Metal Slug 1 is great, but 2 is an improvement in every way, and 4 is also great. Sounds like you just got filtered.
They were shallow games with flashy graphics. The monetization practice necessitated very basic level design.
Sounds like you have very limited experience with arcade games. DoDonPachi, Alien vs. Predator, Elevator Action Returns, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, TGM, Outrun, Battle Garegga, Shock Troopers, In The Hunt, Puzzle Bobble, Metal Slug, Darius Gaiden, Sunset Riders, Klax, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Raiden, etc.
Arcade game level design was the furthest thing from "basic". It was incredibly dense and challenging.
3 months ago
Anonymous
see
3 months ago
Anonymous
>but 2 is an improvement in every way
The last two levels are pure slop. >Arcade game level design was the furthest thing from "basic"
You literally (not hyperbole) just listed a bunch of games with straight lines for levels with no platforming at all. At least pretend you actually play the games you hear youtubers talking about.
3 months ago
Anonymous
post clears you stupid shitter. You cry about "muh quarter munchers!!!" and don't know of any arcade games except the absolute most popular mainstream ones. It's blatantly obvious you are a poser homosexual with no clears.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>It's blatantly obvious you are a poser homosexual with no clears
That's what everyone thinks when they see your thread for the thousandth time.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Arcade games were the premium experience of the time. With more depth, challenge, larger budgets, and better tech.
3 months ago
Anonymous
They were shallow games with flashy graphics. The monetization practice necessitated very basic level design.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Quite the opposite. Arcade games were typically shorter but with much more complex and challenging level design, while console games were usually a lot longer with more filler and less challenging.
Seems weird to take this us vs. them mindset, when both types of games were fundamentally very similar.
>but 2 is an improvement in every way
The last two levels are pure slop. >Arcade game level design was the furthest thing from "basic"
You literally (not hyperbole) just listed a bunch of games with straight lines for levels with no platforming at all. At least pretend you actually play the games you hear youtubers talking about.
The last two levels are the two most challenging levels and the culmination of the game. The final boss is one of the most challenging and dynamic boss fights not just in arcade gaming but in general. Without those final two levels, the game would be a hollow shell of its self.
Elevator Action Returns is not a straight line at all, but these games listed don't have a ton of verticality because they aren't platformers... they are puzzle games or shmups/run and guns with a focus primarily on shooting, dodging, and routing strategy.
Platformers weren't as popular in the Arcade as they were on home console, but you can still definitely find plenty, like Cadash, Black Tiger, Hero of Tonma, Rastan, Cannon Dancer, Strider, Liquid Kids, Spinmaster, Willow, Bonk's Adventure, Makaimura, Daimakaimura, etc. many of which stand toe-to-toe with the best on the NES/SNES.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The final boss is one of the most challenging and dynamic boss fights not just in arcade gaming but in general
How long have you been trying to push this nonsense? You don't even play these games you schizo moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You crying about it doesn't change the fact that I have no-miss cleared all the NEOGEO Slugs. I know it's inconceivable to the shitter that there are people that actually play and clear these games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
We've heard this lie plenty of times now. Get new material.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yes, I've got plenty of new clears since then.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You've definitely cleared plenty of youtube videos.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's pretty bald claim, surely you've got a recording to back it up. If you didn't record it, fair. Surely you can do it again, but with a recording this time?
3 months ago
Anonymous
If you know, you know. Not entertaining shitters.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The guy you're replying to doesn't actually play any arcade games. He discovered a youtube channel that discusses them and became obsessed.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>That's pretty bald claim
3 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, you are replying to a shitposter complaining that shmups, puzzle games, or fighting games don't have platforming, stop wasting your time.
Modern gaming is like driving through east texas(incredibly flat and barren with very few towns to even get gas), 360 generation is like driving through I dunno, Florida(more life, more towns, still can have long stretches of fricking nothing), and old gaming(arcade-ps2) is driving through New England (where you not only hit towns and major cities rather quickly, you are also crossing state lines rapidly). It isn’t so much about mechanics as it is what you get to do with them and the amount of time it takes to get to the good bits.
>hey you like hard core games right? >okay how about we play a game of quake and overwatch then? >UHHHH NOOOOOO MUH HAT GAEM AIEEEEEE troonyS *inane ramblings about mechanics that make no no logical sense despite being casual babies* >what about counter strike >MUH SHOTS WERE MISSED BECAUSE OF RNG*completely misunderstanding game mechanics* CHEATERS AHHHHH
Modern gaming is like driving through east texas(incredibly flat and barren with very few towns to even get gas), 360 generation is like driving through I dunno, Florida(more life, more towns, still can have long stretches of fricking nothing), and old gaming(arcade-ps2) is driving through New England (where you not only hit towns and major cities rather quickly, you are also crossing state lines rapidly). It isn’t so much about mechanics as it is what you get to do with them and the amount of time it takes to get to the good bits.
He got so butthurt about my comment that was a point-by-point deconstruction of his entire video and how he was completely and utterly wrong, and then deleted it.
Frick that stupid troony Black person, lmao, he's a fricking dork who can't take differing opinions, and thinks R-Type is the best video game ever made, and thinks only SHMUPS and Beat em ups matter. He's a fricking troglodyte. He'd shit his pants if he tried playing something with depth.
>He got so butthurt about my comment that was a point-by-point deconstruction of his entire video and how he was completely and utterly wrong, and then deleted it.
I'm sure this happened.
>thinks R-Type is the best video game ever made
Great bait, enjoy your (You).
Yes. I did. This is another comment I left on one of his videos deconstructing his attempt at trying to prove why arcade games have the "Best game design" and are the historic "basis" for video gaming.
>the comment is still up by the way
No shit moron, I literally just said "Here is another comment I left". Try reading next time.
Also, what the frick do you mean you read that when I posted it here? That's the first time I've posted that you dipshit liar.
>Eletricuck Underground
He got so butthurt about my comment that was a point-by-point deconstruction of his entire video and how he was completely and utterly wrong, and then deleted it.
Frick that stupid troony Black person, lmao, he's a fricking dork who can't take differing opinions, and thinks R-Type is the best video game ever made, and thinks only SHMUPS and Beat em ups matter. He's a fricking troglodyte. He'd shit his pants if he tried playing something with depth.
>1 - Difficulty Curve Is Gone - Wholly accurate, but it's a misattribution to claim that arcade games "perfected" difficulty. First off, Arcade games were designed foremost to keep the line of people moving in order to maximize profit. I would say console and PC games perfected difficulty curves better than Arcades for this reason alone, as once you bought the game, they had no incentive to keep you pumping quarters in or to move on to the next player. The term "quarter-muncher" exists for a reason, and it's a term that originated during the peak of the arcades in the 80's.
his video specifically brings up this misconception and addresses it, in great detail. what's the point of bringing it up again?
being designed for short bursts means the games needed to constantly up the difficulty and keep the player engaged while not getting too hard or cheap to make sure they came back. meanwhile with games you buy & own you don't have to keep the player constantly engaged which means you get to add bullshit filler, repetitive tasks, long stretches with no real gameplay etc vs the constant forward momentum & increasing difficulty that defined arcade games. >2 - Market Caters to Unskilled Players - True, however, arcades equally cater to unskilled players by allowing as many continues as you have money to dump into them, meaning anyone of even the lowest skill level can complete the game, given enough time and money, which eerily mirrors the Pay 2 Win model of modern games.
except people who weren't stupid with their money would try to get as much gameplay as they could out of a single coin. the games specifically encouraged getting as much out of a single coin as you could through their scoring, ranking & power-up systems. classic PC games also often had cheatcodes; do those make the games "casual filth"? give me a break dude.
Yes. I did. This is another comment I left on one of his videos deconstructing his attempt at trying to prove why arcade games have the "Best game design" and are the historic "basis" for video gaming.
>3 - Gameplay Density is Gone - This one, I have a major problem with. While it is true that in the 70's and early 80's, video games did used to be much shorter, for RPG's this was not the case at ALL. Even as early as Ultima 1 you had games reaching the 6 or 7 hour mark, and that's 1981. Fast forward only a few years to 1985 and you have Ultima IV being up to 30 hours long, and a few more years, and you have Wizardry 6 clocking in at over 40 hours in length, beating many modern RPG's which you claim to just be empty deserts of content. Using arcades as a scale to measure appropriate game length is also flawed since, again, they were aiming to maximize player-count, not maximize content, which they were sorely lacking in comparison to their console and PC brethren, since you were supposed to be designing games that were about 30 minutes long, with controls and choices that were simple and straight forward. You could not allow players time to explore and develop an impactful story or have complex multi-level game mechanics since you had people tapping their feet, waiting in line to be next up to play.
this is so fricking bad lol. Mark constantly addresses his position, that "content" doesn't mean much if it lacks meaningful gameplay engagement and that games focused around "content" are often rife with filler; the polar opposite of the design philosophy he's championing. this paragraph really says nothing beyond "but muh content. have you REALLY considered muh content?" >You could not allow players time to explore and develop an impactful story
jesus christ dude
3 months ago
Anonymous
Ah so it's a butthurt jarpig homosexual, no wonder his giant wall of text has as much substance as the games he plays.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Wizardry isn't a JRPG, moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm sorry, warpig homosexual*
3 months ago
Anonymous
Great, now post an arcade game that rivals this webm in its depth of combat.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>BTFOing braindead AIs that pose no threats = depth
The player in your webm is not even trying to block or avoid attacks, he just tanks everything, amazing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Is your webm supposed to be an example of depth? Because it's the complete opposite.
Donkey Kong alone is more complex than 99% of AAA games kek
>heh, Donkey Kong is such a shallow braindead quarter muncher; only an imbecile could be entertained by such simplistic drivel... >*shows you 100+ page document covering mechanics and advanced strategies* >NOOOOOOOOOO YOU ARE JUST AUTISTIC!!!
lmao, fricking moron
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Occasionally a Donkey Kong player will learn the game in seclusion or in isolated communities. When this happens certain language about the game develops differently than it would have under other influences. As a result, there exists a variety of labels, terms, and expressions to describe the same game. For example, one may use the terms, ‘level’, ‘screen’, ‘stage’, or ‘board’ to refer to the same thing. Likewise, one may prefer to say ‘conveyor’ instead ‘pie factory’ or likes to say ‘elevators’ instead of ‘springs’. This manual recognizes the legitimacy of all the language which has developed over the years. However, for the sake of simplicity and uniformity, this manual has chosen specific terms and has tried to stay consistent with our usage. Whichever language you may prefer, we hope that you will be able to follow the meaning of the text.
Yeah, if you write like this you can stretch anything to 100+ pages and it's pure autism.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Calling it autistic again is still not an argument.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Focus: To be successful at Donkey Kong, one has to stay completely focused. Probably the two biggest reasons for loss of focus while playing Donkey Kong is: 1) When there is a loss of a life, and 2) When everything seems to be going your way.
>Whenever you have an in-game death, there is a great tendency to become either angry or discouraged. Sometimes you can get angry because the death was due to a mistake, and sometimes you can get angry because it seemed like it was a nearly unavoidable death (players call these “screwings”). However, it is imperative that you remain calm and continue to focus. It is good if you are upset in a way that makes you more focused, but if it causes you to rush and make bad decisions, it is not going to help. You can’t just magically do better at the game because you are upset; the game still runs by the same rules. Furthermore, becoming apathetic simply due to a death is also not good. Granted, there are some times where not caring about the specific game you are on is statistically reasonable -such as maybe if you lost a life too early in the game and it would be wiser to just restart, or maybe you have already lost too many lives for reaching a Killscreen to be feasible. However, especially when you are new to the game, it is often helpful to push through a death and continue while trying to “come from behind”, as it were.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Also, sometimes people can become apathetic, fearful, or even discouraged when one of their deaths is caused by situations that seem to be completely out of their control. Sometimes a fireball or firefox will trap you, or barrels won’t go where you want them to go, or Donkey Kong may throw several difficult wild barrels in a row so that it seems like there is no possible way to survive. In a situation like this, it seems like all your best efforts do nothing. For these reasons it is easy to understand why a player might get discouraged, but one needs to remember that most of the game is not that way. Statistically, if one plays perfectly sound Donkey Kong, they will eventually reach the Killscreen –and probably more than once, at that!
>Lastly, many people lose focus due to the game becoming easy. Very often, once you have developed enough skill, you will have long stretches of easy screens. It is quite easy to lose focus by ‘going into autopilot.’ Zoning out and not paying close attention can be costly once the game’s good randomness decides to take a turn for the worseworst and mix up the rhythm. It is always better to stay alert and focused as much as you can -even when the game seems to be going fairly easily. In other words, good randomness can lure a player into a false sense of security and begin to train your mind to hope for the best instead of always being alert and ready to respond to the worst. Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. Position yourself to take advantage of opportunities, but not at the expense of trapping yourself if the randomness turns on you.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Always remember that there is a strong tendency to die twice in a row due to loss of focus. When you die, the frustration, fear, discouragement, or laziness hindering you must go away within the next 5 seconds because, by then, you will already be on your next life -and you don’t want to be carrying any extra emotional baggage from the last death. It is also important to realize that it is impossible to know what kind of bad randomness or personal mistakes lay ahead of you, so it does no good to worry about those either. The only thing you can do is be ready mentally and improve your skills as much as possible to be able to deal with all the possibilities that may occur. It can take a lot of time and emotional angst, but what is always necessary for a Donkey Kong player to succeed is complete focus!
This is one and a half pages from the manual wasted on explaining nothing, but I guess it's to be expected from someone who'd spend months of his time playing Donkey Kong.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Congratulations on proving that twitter post right again
why cant you go back?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Game?
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Adventures of Ten and Till
3 months ago
Anonymous
Thanks. I've been looking for more shmups but it's getting increasingly difficult with all the survivor clones crowding the tag.
3 months ago
Anonymous
If you're looking for more games then allow me to shill these as well, if you don't feel like buying shit you can still play the free ones, or just pirate, I don't really care.
>DRAINUS
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1975360/DRAINUS/ (from the Touhou Luna Nights dev, the game is very beginner friendly and probably the most beautiful shmup that came out recently)
>Crimzon Clover World EXplosion
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1718160/Crimzon_Clover_World_EXplosion/
>Mushihimesama
https://store.steampowered.com/app/377860/Mushihimesama/ (a classic from Cave but not beginner friendly at all)
>Deathsmiles
https://store.steampowered.com/app/314180/Deathsmiles/ (horizontal shmup with goth e-girls, easier than mushi but still challenging)
3 months ago
Anonymous
Thanks. I've been looking for more shmups but it's getting increasingly difficult with all the survivor clones crowding the tag.
holy mother of slop
just emulate the classics you damned zoomer moron
3 months ago
Anonymous
>quite literally only a single good game in that image
absolutely grim
It's a bit late to make /shmupg/ baits don't you think?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Thanks. I already played most of them though.
Didn't really like the demos of Gunvein and ZeroRanger, and I got Mecha Ritz wishlisted.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>quite literally only a single good game in that image
absolutely grim
3 months ago
Anonymous
Great taste and great collection anon.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>OH EM GEE IS THAT A GIANT CLOUD OF PIXEL SLOP THAT YOU STEER A GENERIC ANIME GIRL THROUGH!!!?? >I MUST KNOW THE NAME!!
holy shit kys reddit tourist
3 months ago
Anonymous
>getting mindbroken by the most basic and common question on Ganker
3 months ago
Anonymous
3 months ago
Anonymous
Ninja Saviors is so awesome
3 months ago
Anonymous
>*one enemy by itself* >*slowly lumber over to enemy as it just stands there* >*use overhead sword attack* >*wait two seconds for attack to finish* >*slowly lumber over to punching bag enemy that is stunlocked and unable to move* >*do the exact same overhead sword attack again* >*wait another two seconds for attack to finish* >*slowly lumber over to punching bag enemy that is stunlocked and unable to move* >*do the exact same overhead sword attack again* >*slowly lumber over to punching bag enemy that is stunlocked and unable to move* >*kick it off the edge* >*slowly lumber off to repeat the same thing on another punching bag*
wow, what an incredible p̶h̶y̶s̶i̶c̶s̶ s̶i̶m̶u̶l̶a̶t̶o̶r video game
3 months ago
Anonymous
Ahhh, so the butthurt arcade-homosexual quit the debate. His attention span lasts as long as the games he plays, I see.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>after defeating the dog
This webm will never not be dishonest
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yes. I did. This is another comment I left on one of his videos deconstructing his attempt at trying to prove why arcade games have the "Best game design" and are the historic "basis" for video gaming.
4. arcade games facilitated innovation in the realm of games with non-stop mechanical engagement over immersion, stat-based faux-progression and storytelling. your counter-examples of "PC innovation" are, as much as I enjoy classic adventure games, less about having a consistently mechanically engaging game and more about having a semi-interactive story with logic puzzles sprinkled throughout. I'm using my brain way less often when playing Monkey Island versus when I'm playing a shmup or beat-em-up - think of how much of your "gameplay" is just going through every dialogue option or hearing every item description from Guybrush vs actually solving puzzles.
5. so games should pursue realism over mechanical engagement? you dismiss all scoring mechanics as "nonsensical" then go "but muh achievements" which also encourage "unrealistic, nonsensical" play while offering a much shallower way of gauging overall player skill. score is like achievements time 100 - a truly good scoring system evaluates all player actions in tandem.
6. more appeals to "muh story, muh realism, muh exploration". none of these actually facilitate constant challenge and mechanical engagement - they facilitate immersion. what you're saying is essentially that reading a choose-your-own adventure book is a more advanced, deeper and more cerebral experience than playing a game of chess.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yes. I did. This is another comment I left on one of his videos deconstructing his attempt at trying to prove why arcade games have the "Best game design" and are the historic "basis" for video gaming.
7. >Force Players To Engage - They are already engaged if they are playing the game in the first place
not necessarily engaged with the actual game mechanics though! that's the point; you keep appealing to things that aren't gameplay. the whole point of the video is that games are moving away from gameplay density. >The only reason that mechanic exists is to encourage players to make heavy risks which in turn results in them inevitably taking damage, in order to "quarter-munch" them.
your mind immediately goes to "coin-munching" versus mastery. like the joy of perfecting a challenging task, of MASTERING a mix of mechanics and level design versus merely "getting past it", doesn't exist.
>Yeah no point in reading any further.
I accept your concession.
[...] >Mark constantly addresses his position, that "content" doesn't mean much if it lacks meaningful gameplay engagement and that games focused around "content" are often rife with filler
Likewise, "content" doesn't mean much when it consists of micro-seconds of repetitive "filler" that are consistently added together. Pressing the shoot button on a SHMUP is objectively less engaging than a monster encounter in a dungeon involving thinking, strategizing, and long-term planning in a game likw Wizardry.
>the polar opposite of the design philosophy he's championing. this paragraph really says nothing beyond "but muh content. have you REALLY considered muh content?"
More strawmanning. I accept your concession.
>Likewise, "content" doesn't mean much when it consists of micro-seconds of repetitive "filler" that are consistently added together.
they're not dummy. good arcade games constantly introduce new ideas and synergize existing enemy types in brand new ways that make you constantly switch up your strategies and keep more & more things in mind as you play. >Pressing the shoot button on a SHMUP is objectively less engaging than a monster encounter in a dungeon involving thinking, strategizing, and long-term planning in a game likw Wizardry.
try to 1CC Dodonpachi or Final Fight and tell me you're making less moment-to-moment strategic decisions mixed with overall planning vs the average WRPG. you'd have a way better case if you were comparing them to a good RTS instead of WRPGs.
I actually do enjoy the IDEA of RPGs but few really grab me because they lack mechanical engagement. a Japanese RPG for 5 year old boys like Medabots wipes the floor with most WRPGs (or JRPGs for that matter) focused around immersion & story in terms of moment-to-moment strategizing gameplay yet most RPG fans consider that an abomination BECAUSE it lacks the focus on those "life replacement" elements.
1. the difficulty is perfected because it needs to both keep the good players engaged by making them come back and to keep the shitters out of arcade cabinets or as fast as possible or to make them credit feed like morons as much as possible to maximize profits as you say, this is a point that he already addressed multiple times.
2. >credit feeding = clear
Yeah no point in reading any further.
>Yeah no point in reading any further.
I accept your concession.
[...] >3 - Gameplay Density is Gone - This one, I have a major problem with. While it is true that in the 70's and early 80's, video games did used to be much shorter, for RPG's this was not the case at ALL. Even as early as Ultima 1 you had games reaching the 6 or 7 hour mark, and that's 1981. Fast forward only a few years to 1985 and you have Ultima IV being up to 30 hours long, and a few more years, and you have Wizardry 6 clocking in at over 40 hours in length, beating many modern RPG's which you claim to just be empty deserts of content. Using arcades as a scale to measure appropriate game length is also flawed since, again, they were aiming to maximize player-count, not maximize content, which they were sorely lacking in comparison to their console and PC brethren, since you were supposed to be designing games that were about 30 minutes long, with controls and choices that were simple and straight forward. You could not allow players time to explore and develop an impactful story or have complex multi-level game mechanics since you had people tapping their feet, waiting in line to be next up to play.
this is so fricking bad lol. Mark constantly addresses his position, that "content" doesn't mean much if it lacks meaningful gameplay engagement and that games focused around "content" are often rife with filler; the polar opposite of the design philosophy he's championing. this paragraph really says nothing beyond "but muh content. have you REALLY considered muh content?" >You could not allow players time to explore and develop an impactful story
jesus christ dude
>Mark constantly addresses his position, that "content" doesn't mean much if it lacks meaningful gameplay engagement and that games focused around "content" are often rife with filler
Likewise, "content" doesn't mean much when it consists of micro-seconds of repetitive "filler" that are consistently added together. Pressing the shoot button on a SHMUP is objectively less engaging than a monster encounter in a dungeon involving thinking, strategizing, and long-term planning in a game likw Wizardry.
>the polar opposite of the design philosophy he's championing. this paragraph really says nothing beyond "but muh content. have you REALLY considered muh content?"
More strawmanning. I accept your concession.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>doesn't address my points
I accept your concession.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>strawmans my post
Can't say I'm surprised. After all, precisely what I expected from someone with a lack of dedication and focus that he can't imagine playing a game for more than 30 minutes, lmao.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>still doesn't address my points
Good job.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>address his points directly >"You didn't address my points
Nice debate tactic. I can see we're going nowhere, fast, much like your arcade games that are dead.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You still haven't addressed my simple points and kept playing dumb to ignore the other guy, nice debate tactic, see you next thread.
[...]
7. >Force Players To Engage - They are already engaged if they are playing the game in the first place
not necessarily engaged with the actual game mechanics though! that's the point; you keep appealing to things that aren't gameplay. the whole point of the video is that games are moving away from gameplay density. >The only reason that mechanic exists is to encourage players to make heavy risks which in turn results in them inevitably taking damage, in order to "quarter-munch" them.
your mind immediately goes to "coin-munching" versus mastery. like the joy of perfecting a challenging task, of MASTERING a mix of mechanics and level design versus merely "getting past it", doesn't exist.
[...] >Likewise, "content" doesn't mean much when it consists of micro-seconds of repetitive "filler" that are consistently added together.
they're not dummy. good arcade games constantly introduce new ideas and synergize existing enemy types in brand new ways that make you constantly switch up your strategies and keep more & more things in mind as you play. >Pressing the shoot button on a SHMUP is objectively less engaging than a monster encounter in a dungeon involving thinking, strategizing, and long-term planning in a game likw Wizardry.
try to 1CC Dodonpachi or Final Fight and tell me you're making less moment-to-moment strategic decisions mixed with overall planning vs the average WRPG. you'd have a way better case if you were comparing them to a good RTS instead of WRPGs.
I actually do enjoy the IDEA of RPGs but few really grab me because they lack mechanical engagement. a Japanese RPG for 5 year old boys like Medabots wipes the floor with most WRPGs (or JRPGs for that matter) focused around immersion & story in terms of moment-to-moment strategizing gameplay yet most RPG fans consider that an abomination BECAUSE it lacks the focus on those "life replacement" elements.
>blah blah blah Half Life 1 is peak genius game design >But then those sections end, and you go back to slowly making your way through the facility, perfectly punctuating the high-octane moments with more atmospheric segments. They compliment each other, which is what gameplay needs.
dude this isn't hardcore gamer insight this is Super Bunny Hop "quiet time" bullshit and only applies to games with movie-like progression or "immersion"/life-replacement qualities. you know a better way to get "quiet time"? take a break from the game and do something else. would Tetris or Pac-Man be better if you took breaks to explore a world & talk to NPCs?
Basically this. I saw one of Electric Underground's videos a year or so ago, thought he was a nobody (which he is), and ignored him and his moronic opinions.
[...]
You guys might want to ask /shmupg/ for backup if you want to actually shitpost about Mark because this is pretty embarrassing so far.
Of course not you frick-stupid spook. Timers limit immersion. They are good for isolated gameplay gimmicks for certain things, but basing your entire game around them is an archaic design rooted in arcade mentality where you were trying to force people to get off your machine if they were too good. If they didn't succumb to the damage, they succumbed to the timer.
The only genre's its really intrinsically important to are racing games and fighting games.
>high density of gameplay >only way for the game to not become redundant is through ramped up difficulty and charging quarters(at best) for credits >you have been conditioned into thinking this was the best thing ever
good goy
Same as always: home consoles, destruction of social structures and personability, phone games, less attraction to that type of arcadey game, etc
They’re having a bit of a revival in the US due to the proliferation of barcades, in Japan there’s still plenty of retro arcades but they’re dwindling, and Japs just love clawslop and gachaslop too much, even the arcade games that are new like the Fate arcade game have gacha mechanics built in.
Humans always tried to go towards the path of least resistance but it makes no sense for videogames to become entirely devoid of challenge, like where is the goddamn "game"
They have become a niche industry since the start of this millenium but its not like they disappeared, in very big cities there will always be a place for them, what you heard was probably the news about Sega selling their arcade business to another company, doesn't mean those arcades are shutting down though
>These arcades just aren't sustainable in a post-scamdemic world.
I remember reading some Japanese comments when this news came out saying that Japanese people always lament the closure of places such as this but nobody actually wants to give up the convenience of doing everything online. They even play claw games online now.
It was an inevitability, but arcades were always going to die off. Japan was just one of the last places to be affected by it all due to them being the primarily manufacturers of arcade machines in the first place.
Gachas always put a hurting on the arcade scene, but prior to 2020, gachas didn't exactly break the normalgay barrier so both could coexist.
Now with VTubers making Japanese people gain an interest into PCs beyond where you do your Microsoft Office crap. It makes me sad. By the time I get around to visiting Japan, the arcade scene will be a shell of its former self.
Extremely dense gameplay is tiring, games went from spending a short amount of time in the arcade to spending hours upon hours in front of your screen. Highly intensive gameplay is mentally and physically exhausting so it's in stark opposition to the whole "gamer lifestyle"
You have to spend your time instead, imagine spending 100+ hours on a game where you spend most of your time walking around, zero challenge, zero meaning.
The edits from last thread are better than the original image. The square for arcade design should be 1/4 big because most arcade games aren't even one hour long, and being very hard (coin muncher) dosen't count as longevity. Coin feed is discouraged because it pulls the curtain back and you see just how little of an experience it really is.
I've tried many arcade games in the last while and to be honest I just don't care for the pacing that much. for instance, batman and robin on genesis is a really cool game, but after the second level I'm tired of how relentless it is. I think my limit for pacing is a doom clone.
Doom and its clones only have pacing if you never save and only restart from the beginning of a level and even then those games like most computer games are intended to be played with quicksaves and quickload
>You have to spend your time instead
you do that when you replay the first level a 100 times.
You are replaying a good game 100 times instead of some slop that is only 100 hours long because they filled it with meaningless, useless content.
>Doom and its clones only have pacing if you never save and only restart from the beginning of a level
most people in the know approach the average doom clone intending to do this, and yes I do it.
I want to say it was 2010 the paid shills at the time (Rooster Teeth/IGN/Giant Bomb) were all trying to get gamers to agree a 4-6 hour game(that was still padded to hell and back by walking sections to hide massive load times) was totally way better than 10+ because a lot of high profile games were getting shit from fans for clearly being truncated. When they lost that war was the moment they shifted to the barren open world format and even more rpg mechanics and time gates to make sure it took as long as possible without actually being fun.
I find it funny how upset people get when being told arcade games are actually peak gaming. I think it bugs people because they know deep down that the dense single session game is better and not wasting their time but ultimately they just simply aren’t up to the task of playing that type of challenging game and would rather play slop instead and they resent it.
Or people recognize you are just overglorifying skinner boxes out of contrarianism because you are young and don't have to waste money away on the actual games.
>y-you can control your build
Yeah when you have tons of gold for rerolls and item bans when you are already far into the metaprogression, i'm not saying that the game is hard btw, i'm saying that it's full of RNG regardless of how you twist it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's even easier in the beginning because of fewer item unlocks. You can just select to level up your first pick until you see another weapon you want. Very rarely do I not get a build I was going for. The only times it's somewhat difficult is if I am going for a evolution that requires an uncommon item. Slay the Spire has WAY more RNG than Vampire Survivors.
Because the gameplay isn’t RNG you dense Black person. Once you get some game knowledge and upgrades ground out every game is basically the same because you go for the same optimal build AND YOU CAN GET IT EVERY TIME. That’s not RNG any more than “the enemy dodged left instead of right” is.
Its RNG, no matter how you spin it its RNG, you don't get random drops in a shmup, you always have to pray to lady luck that you get that specific item in those trash roguelites.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>still seething that he can't autowin if he simply memorizes the whole level
3 months ago
Anonymous
Vampire Survivors is extremely generous about selection to the point the choices you choose from hardly matter upon leveling up. 90% of the time you can just level up your staring weapon until you come across a passive or another weapon you want. You have 6 weapons to plan out and six passives. All stages have passives and/or weapons in them that are constant depending on the stage. Vampire Survivors is about game knowledge, and once you know what to do, it's like what
I don't really get vampire survivors. I assume there's harder modes and more things to be aware as you go on, but it took like 2 runs to find a decent array of stuff and now I don't even feel like I need more items. I can almost walk away from the game halfway through with what I can already get. I played it for like 2 hours and felt like I was thoroughly done.
Also the item balance is totally fricked. You can almost instantly tell which ones suck.
described.
3 months ago
Anonymous
All games are about knowledge but some are especially about grinding and unlocking shit like the game you mentioned
Friend of mine keeps telling me to play this game, says it's the greatest thing ever.
Is this really what it's like?
Its a modern "AAA "game", enough said
3 months ago
Anonymous
I don't deny that. I am not saying Vampire Survivors is a good game. I just don't like homosexuals describing a game in a way that it isn't. We don't need more morons announcing the fact that they either don't play video games or are just bad at them.
I liked this game but after around 20 hours I figured out what the best weapons to go for are and that makes every run the same
The neat thing is that it also means I never wanna touch any other game in the genre again, it's a one-off
That's every arcade game. 20 hours would be like $50 of quarters at an arcade.
They're not supposed to be played for 1000s of hours like some grind.exe MMO.
>Anno Domini MMV >Vampire Survivors is a hit game on the usual flash game sites, for free >Anno Domini MMXXIV >Vampire Survivors is $5 paid slop
you fricking hate to see it.
Why would anyone want to go back? People moved from arcade games because they were too primitive and newer games offered more. Nowadays you can choose whether you want to watch a movie game, or manage a %thing%, or command an army, or play another 2D platformer, or play another fighting game, or play another shmup, or play another tetris with gimmicks, or play another racing game, or play chess, or solve puzzles, or... the list goes on and on...
I mean, you can be a poser as long and as much as you want, but the fact is that games of genres and styles from arcades are still being made and published to this day.
I don't think "gameplay density" is a bad thing but obviously most people prefer there to be some fluff; emotional investment, novel ideas, exploration, etc.
As a stupid example rolling a D6 and winning if you get 6 is a really dense game. There is only gameplay. Every action you do or can conceivably do is mechanically engaging with the game. How nice.
Sony is dumb for not making multiplatform games. Nobody needs dedicated consoles anymore these days. A locked ecosystem by definition is moronic. Think about the Steam deck. it is an alternative to play on a PC. If sony games would work both on console and PC and never be exclusive and even publish on Xbox the consoles can provide a different service. They could just exist to keep your games in a sony library. And if you don't want that in a steam library.
We are running into the same dead end as with streaming services. There are too many alternatives to care paying for the least attractive one.
It's the dark souls generation, they need tricks, broken items, exploits, and cheese strats to beat their games, something that RNG upgrades in roguelites/roguelikes can provide, so then they can brag about how hardcore their game is while also claiming that they beat it easily.
The Souls series is actually one of the rare exceptions to the casualization of every genre, compared to some mainstream slop like Bethesda or Ubisoft games any Souls game is the most hardcore game on the planet. Yes you can grind in Souls but it barely even matters, what truly matters is skill.
>Tell that to Nintendo
I don't have to. Strictly speaking there is Palword and Pokemon for mobile. They will see what happens if they stay exclusive. Personally the market is so saturated that people don't care anymore what they play as long as there is 0 bullshit. But yeah, I'd tell that to Nintendo if I could curse in Japanese. Kusoge!
Nintendo has games that Steamies dream of everyday, now that Sony is maybe moving away from console development they will dominate that industry, its not like Microsoft consoles will suddenly become decent.
>A locked ecosystem by definition is moronic.
Yep, simple as. I'm 80% sure the reason why CAVE died is because they (or their investors) stubbornly decided to release their games only on Xbox 360, a console that was extremely unpopular in japan and only owned in the west by people who mainly play shooters and sports games.
They could've gotten a portion of the Touhou series' success if they made the effort of porting their shit on PC early on.
>why didn't this japanese company port their games to a platform where no one gives a frick about shmups and they only care about indieslop and working simulators?
This is so odd when asians somehow side with a western platform. I think this story was a lot on Ganker when it happened. I feel some anon told me about it long ago.
I can only imagine corruption and "follow the money" which sucks in that case. They should not have to pick for 1 market only.
Find some small youtube channel that shows off indie games. Just so you have a baseline of stuff that's already filtered out of the tons of shit releasing every day
Just pick a combination of any of following 3 criteria:
1) platform
2) genre
3) decade
And just google reccomendations for those criteria. With at least two of those criteria (for example, "best 00's horror games" or "best PS1 JRPGs") it should be enough to get a decent list of games to check out without it being so overwhelming it becomes useless. Also, for all it's flaws, the old Ganker's reccomended games wiki is good for getting a general list of reccomendations for any given platform. Of course though, this method becomes less effective the more games you've played as you start to get the same shit you've already played reccomended to you over and over, when you get to that point you're pretty much on your own I guess.
Time filling vs time waster. Contra couch co-op brought me closer to my brother, meanwhile I will never get the hour I wasted hoping Assassin’s Creed Greek Goat fricker would get better.
You could have used that time to go on a hike with your brother instead, and also improved your health, instead of lethargically sitting on your ass and decaying your vision with projected lights on a screen.
>sun gives cancer
Sun gives Vitamin D, which improves your immune system, which can reduce your chances of cancer.
3 months ago
Anonymous
no Ca2+ resorption in muscle tissue and bones does not prevent cancer
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're objectively wrong, but continue thinking you're right anyway, I don't care.
3 months ago
Anonymous
shill study not from Nature or a real journal >estimated
not proven
3 months ago
Anonymous
>or a real journal
It's the national library of medicine you fricking tard.
3 months ago
Anonymous
you didn't study it seems
3 months ago
Anonymous
Ncmbi just collects everything, you’ll find tons of anti-vax stuff in there. Doesn’t mean it is fact, it just means a student blew a professor to graduate.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>shill study not from Nature or a real journal
>says the moron using the webmd, the medical equivalent of wikipedia
3 months ago
Anonymous
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/vitamin-d-fact-sheet
NIH is state
now perma frick off megamoron
3 months ago
Anonymous
>UV exposure is the primary method of boosting serum vitamin D levels, which accounts for numerous health benefits. Higher levels of vitamin D are associated with protection against cancer development, including melanoma. Latitude, season, skin color, and sun protection determine UV absorption and vitamin D production
I've been playing the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection, many of the early classics running the arcade roms from back in the early 80s and 90s.
Holy shit, they are difficult. Especially the first SF. A nightmare of dropped inputs and input reading.
It's fun to get good at game, however the line between immense fun and pure frustration is very thin. I'm getting through them, learning the intricacies of the different characters and changes between releases, but they shouldn't be held up as some glowing standard of gaming, at least not the arcade modes. They were just blatantly designed to chew up kids entire allowances.
It's the dark souls generation, they need tricks, broken items, exploits, and cheese strats to beat their games, something that RNG upgrades in roguelites/roguelikes can provide, so then they can brag about how hardcore their game is while also claiming that they beat it easily.
>arcade games are easy :^| >really? which ones have you cleared? 😮 > :^| >YOU ARCADEBlack folk ARE SO FRICKING ANNOYING GO BACK TO PLAYING YOUR QUARTERMUNCHER SHIT ZGBVABEACILBEZFGHPJ >:^0
I don't really get vampire survivors. I assume there's harder modes and more things to be aware as you go on, but it took like 2 runs to find a decent array of stuff and now I don't even feel like I need more items. I can almost walk away from the game halfway through with what I can already get. I played it for like 2 hours and felt like I was thoroughly done.
Also the item balance is totally fricked. You can almost instantly tell which ones suck.
Open Zone > Open World
I want handmade and curated spokes that link up with other spokes. I don't want vast worlds of nothingness and copy paste with combat encounters on a 5 minutes timer so I don't get bored enough to notice.
There needs to be more games made with the scope of some older RPGs, something like Vampire: the Masquerade especially. Not a huge open area at all, but big enough that you have plenty of side content to do plus it always feels like the entire space is used for something, no useless empty areas.
Shit wait wrong one, no wait please come back! AAAIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm going to have to have a long talk with my friend about his taste in video games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
There's nothing wrong with your friend's taste in vidya tho.
On a more serious note sometimes it's better to not talk about certain things if you don't want to lose friends, it would be smarter to slowly influence your friend into playing the games you want rather than exposing his poor taste.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I've known him since he was 8 and we're in our mid-30s now.
I don't think I'll lose his friendship over calling him out on his shit taste.
He's usually into strategy and 4X games, so GoW was already an odd recommendation from him.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's kind of a phenomenon that when someone is only into one kind of thing that they might get easily mind blown by very entry level and average stuff from other genres. Console gamers playing bioshock effect, really.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Actually that makes a lot of sense. 4X games are slow as molasses and God of War is too. Maybe he just likes slow games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
If he only played computer games i would imagine why he would be impressed by any action game, even a shitty one.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe you should ply it. Until then you can never understand what he's talking about. Playing games is the most important thing, even if Ganker avoids it at all costs.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Or he could just pretend that he played it, you know watch it on Youtube and you'll miss nothing since its a moviegame
Avoiding playing games is the cancer that killed Ganker, and it's a sign of arrested development in its posters.
This is true when you have no point of reference, but when you have played games similar to GoW or games that have the same over the shoulder camera then you can immediately tell when a game is shit or not, and regardless of its gameplay the sheer amount of cutscenes and forced walking sections/dialogues in GoW is enough to turn off most people with actual taste, not to mention its "puzzles".
3 months ago
Anonymous
Same people said the same thing about the PS2 games which are very fun, classically designed and consistently refresh themselves. Focusing on what you deem the worst parts of a game you've admit never played. The sad thing it's a video game board finding reason to not play a game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>you can't say this game is a boring movie
I got better things to play
Most arcade games you just put another quarter in and get more lives
You shouldn't put in more quarters, even noticed that your score resets when you do? In a lot of them you also get more lives by playing better, everything in those games is developed that way to make you want to play the game more but in a honest way, not through gambling or other horseshit that is present in mobile titles.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>>I got better things to play
But not to talk about clearly.
Game? Pretty sure it's a movie. The only thing I heard about it is cool cinematics and how it's been shot with a single camera. Surely must be a movie.
Satisfying meaty combat with meaningful complexity, a good story well voice acted, plenty of interesting real mythology mixed in with nonsense mythology.
It's weak points are bad bosses ironically, not all of them but most are very simplistic more so than average enemy encounters where the combat actually shines. I also can't stand any "walking through a tight space sideways slowly" moments, but those are used to disguise loading screens and stuff like that mostly.
People who cannot spend 30 seconds walking especially when someone is talking to you about things that are actually relevant without being stimulated by flashing lights and colors are genuinely moronic
Think about Chrono Trigger. Its a "long" RPG, but the story beats and settings and arcs just keep moving the whole time. You are never, ever stuck in one spot and waiting for things to happen. One story beat instantly goes onto the next, and you don't have to sit through more than 10 dialog boxes at any time to move the story to the next step. Even the dungeons are designed with no padding. You can argue that Magus' Lair and the Black Omen sections go on for much longer than other beats, but they are designed to be points of focus.
Nowadays you have to complete 15 hours of sidequests and listening to dialog just to leave Midgar.
I always wonder if the relative "long-winded-ness" of modern RPGs is just due to a changes in storytelling formulas, or if it’s something inherent to 3D.
It’s much easier to make a 2D space seem large without making the player have to trudge across long distances. Abstracting character interactions to "emotes" makes cutscenes much snappier, especially since everything can go at the speed of reading because there’s no damn voice acting.
Betting.
People used to bet on where the pinball would go. Arcades had to put those stickers on to avoid getting shut down for running illegal casinos.
Betting.
People used to bet on where the pinball would go. Arcades had to put those stickers on to avoid getting shut down for running illegal casinos.
I had no idea this was a thing, I swear some people are such gambling addicted morons.
Yeah, gaming, down to it's earliest roots, always thread a fine line between amusement and gambling and many old gaming companies, especially in Japan, dabbled in both. I mean historically speaking it was normal that if grown men would waste time playing games they would do so for stakes, until recent times you never heard of anyone playing, say, a dice game purely for fun.
Betting.
People used to bet on where the pinball would go. Arcades had to put those stickers on to avoid getting shut down for running illegal casinos.
Betting.
People used to bet on where the pinball would go. Arcades had to put those stickers on to avoid getting shut down for running illegal casinos.
Gameplay so shallow that even things like "game overs" exist and are a regular occurence, truly the deepest gameplay is when you can never reach a fail state and the game plays automatically for you.
I can program a game where you have to press 1 button and every time you press it there is a 50% chance to get a game over screen. Would that be deep gameplay?
You already tried that shit last time, no videogame will ever be that simple aside from maybe some modern AAA titles where you press the forward button and win.
You are right, I also have to add a meaningless score number that goes up by 1 every time the game over screen is not triggered. Then it will truly be like a classic arcade game.
Maybe you should ply it. Until then you can never understand what he's talking about. Playing games is the most important thing, even if Ganker avoids it at all costs.
Or he could just pretend that he played it, you know watch it on Youtube and you'll miss nothing since its a moviegame
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Or he could just pretend that he played it, you know watch it on Youtube and you'll miss nothing since its a moviegame
Avoiding playing games is the cancer that killed Ganker, and it's a sign of arrested development in its posters.
3 months ago
Anonymous
No games is better than bad games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nope, you'd probably have a great time with dad of boy.
Mobile games are the opposite of arcade games, they are all about persistence and grinding stats. Arcade games are about you as a player getting better, almost exclusively.
Sounds like a good way to lose money really fast. Ideally the best way to play is to start from the beginning each time so you get more play time each time as you get better (AKA, how basically every Japanese gamer played arcade games). Dumping quarters in to credit feed to the end is a western thing.
Also virtually all arcade games, if you use the continue feature, either wipe your score or mark your score with how many continues you used (mark of shame). Games like Metal Slug don't wipe your score but your score will be dogshit if you use it because of mechanics like the POW bonus.
I agree with 70% of this man's points which is not bad considering but I cannot bring myself to actuallty watch his vids. Gotta tab out and play something, have him in the background, I just cannot stand that shit-eating, contemptible, screen punchworthy permasmirk he has, it drives me berserk.
All three parts before 4 were great. Everything after Stardust Crusaders is utter fricking garbage. Anyone who is even remotely honest with themselves can admit to this.
Diamond Is Unbreakable is where JoJo became unwatchable trash.
None of David Production's cheapo slideshow is worth watching, and Diamond, while still really good, is where Araki's anno homosexual habits really start manifesting. By the end of Part 5 and most of Part 6 it is fully unreadable.
>he doesn’t have a dedicated emulation or batocera PC complete with a curated MAME or FBNeo rom collection, additionally containing curated roms through 6th generation at a minimum including arcade to console ports, and doesn’t have this rom collection backed up on a NAS
What's the last Nintendo game with some decent amount of challenge?
I feel like people who look back fondly on the amusement arcade model were just spoiled rich kids. Any child who got a couple of goes max was acutely aware of how bullshit and greedy these games were.
Even console games back then were short to be quite honest, its only since the 5th gen that games got a lot longer and so it makes a lot of people assume that its money that is spent better, in these days the opposite is slowly happening, people are getting tired of longer games and want shorter, more focused experienced.
this is kind of the core of the issue I think. you really can't do a game like donkey kong 94 in the arcades. it's just a bit too slow paced, there isn't quite enough hazards that would immediately kill you. arcade games allow no room for playful interaction, they need to have a constant fail state check.
I think the remake's Time Attack mode does a decent enough job at applying a fast-paced arcade experience to the game. You're short on time and dying is an instant fail that makes you redo the whole thing unlike in the regular game where the second screen is a checkpoint.
I feel like people who look back fondly on the amusement arcade model were just spoiled rich kids. Any child who got a couple of goes max was acutely aware of how bullshit and greedy these games were.
I'm not hand waving any games, you constantly get the same arguments against arcade games when they span many genres, pioneered many (especially due to the eras more powerful hardware), and aren't exactly mindless as people assert they are (if they were mindless then you wouldn't need to figure out mechanics, level, and enemy design to get over tough sections of a game).
Because pumping quarters, using nintendo power, game genie, nintendo hotline, The Wizard and you're older brother and uncle who works at nintendo for help while saying 'you didn't beat the game' is silly.
>But MUH DENSHITY
You sound like a fricking manchild, pretentious sperg who thinks density can only be found if it comes in short bursts and instant doses without any build up or surrounding elements to it. Games stopped being for underdeveloped, defective manchildren who want nothing but the equivalent of eating only candy long ago.
Copypasting the same things 400 times on a bland Ubislop map is way cheaper than actually making a good game. Diversity hires can also keep up this way. Barely.
Arcade styles game like shmups, beat em ups, and fighting games still exist. There are also rogue lites such as Nuclear Throne or Downwell which have a very arcade-y feel to them.
Women and journalists can easily beat any AAA games, they're not in any way comparable to arcade games which take some actual skill and dedication, now post that Contra clear, it's 10 minutes long.
I play both, and there are basically no AAA games that are even remotely as hard as older games
Some of the harder AAA games (excluding indies) I've done in no order are >TEW on Akumu >Vanquish on Godhard + Tac Challenges >God of War 1-3 - hardest difficulties >DMC3+4 -DMD S-ranks and Bloody Palace >NG1+2 on MNM >MGRR - Revengeance S-ranks >Max Payne 3 - NYMH >TLoU on Grounded >GTAO - all CMMs >Catherine - Babel + all gold on Hard >Dead Space 1+2 - hardest difficulties + Hardcore >Bioshock 1+2 - Survivor no vita chambers >Killzone 2 - Elite >Bamham AA+AC - all medals in Combat Challenges >Uncharted 1-4 on Crushing >RE4+5 on Professional >CoD1+2+WaW+MW2+MW3+BO+BO2 on Veteran >all the Soulsborne games (no challenge runs but I do want to do some in the future)
That's why speedrunning is so popular; it is the only way to get any challenge out of modern games, but literally anything would be difficult when you are trying to do it as efficiently as humanly possible.
Here is a good reference. Basically anything on here that is marked low/med difficulty or higher is harder than vast majority of AAA games. And this is only just a small sample.
>intense gameplay that requires lots of meaningful decision making condensed into a short timeframe without any padding
Yes anon, that's a gameplay-dense game, what was your point exactly?
>intense gameplay that requires lots of meaningful decision
-mash fire like a maniac because there's zero decision making involved in when you should shoot, the action itself may as well require no input from the player
-most enemies are worthless filler that pose 0 threat unless you happen to be near the edge where they spawn and they kill you without you having a chance to react
-bosses can't kill you once you seem them attack once because their attacks just hit the same spot over and over; the few attacks that actually track you can be destroyed by your own projectiles so their a non-threat as well
simplicity and depth don't contradict each other
Yeah, they do, unless the game happens to have some complex physics system which you can mess around with and none of those games have that.
>Most enemies are worthless filler
Every enemy is dangerous at 1 hit kill. You have to be situationally aware or you can easily be taken by surprise from a stray bullet or a runner from a different direction. To beat in 10 is incredibly impressive because even memorization can’t be enough. >Bosses have patterns and test your understanding of mechanics
Modern games don’t even have bosses, they have cutscenes.
>Every enemy is dangerous at 1 hit kill
Yeah, if you're asleep. 95% of the shit in this game has 0 chance of hitting you once you've seen it once. >Modern games don’t even have bosses, they have cutscenes.
And we're going back to completely making up shit now.
Fricking PINBALL nowadays has more depth than most AAA vidya, and that shit is controlled with only 2 buttons most of the time.
Name one fricking AAA game you've beaten recently.
nu-GoW having RPG stats and various special attacks with cooldowns does not give it depth.
And Arcade games making you insert a quarter after you get hit once doesn't mean they have depth either.
Name one pinball game you've reached the wizard mode of
3 months ago
Anonymous
Name one AAA game you've beaten on the hardest difficulty.
You clearly haven’t played contra and name one modern game with a boss fight. I’ll wait.
I'll give you several:
Elden Ring
GoW Ragnarok
Jedi Survivor
Remnant 2
RE4 Remake
And I'm pretty FF7 Rebirth will have some too
Here's an epic Contra boss to compare:
?t=528
3 months ago
Anonymous
So you've never played one. Gotcha.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>ER and Jedi
Des clones from 2009 not modern, both beatable if you face frick and roll for iframes. Rest is all hidden by bloat. If you die it is because of not grinding gear. Still only three buttons required at most. No different from Contra. Likewise, environment can only kill you if you are asleep. >RE4
2004 is not modern RERE4 equally has boss patterns no different from contra. Only extra layer is bullets run out of ammo. >GoW
Completely scripted, can’t lose. Extra soilent with your sneed oil covered popcorn.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Really? Name a modern AAA boss that's just running around in a circle while stepping on 3 pressure pads.
[...]
So you haven't played a single one and you're just making shit up that fits your narrative, just as expected.
Just post your clears or shut the frick up
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'll post them when you post your GoW 2018 Sigrun clear.
What point?
That arcade games don't have any more depth than your average modern game.
Works both ways arcade hater. And I have played them. Trying to shit on Contra with From/From clones is like trying to put out a grease fire with water.
I've also played both and pretending Contra is some hardcore shit that only real boomer gamers can beat is laughable.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Still waiting on that 10 minute clear with time stamp and breasts
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'll post them when you post your GoW 2018 Sigrun clear.
[...]
That arcade games don't have any more depth than your average modern game.
[...]
I've also played both and pretending Contra is some hardcore shit that only real boomer gamers can beat is laughable.
You both sound like moronic poser homosexuals. Contra is one of the easiest arcade games out there. Elden Ring (and Souls in general) are some of the few AAA games that are actually deep and challenging. And GoW 2018 is absolute pozzed shallow garbage so there is no reason for anyone to even touch that on any difficulty.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're going to be waiting until I see that 5 minute GoW 2018 fight I asked for.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Well then we both need to shut the frick up because I’m not touching zoomer movie trash and you are too afraid to face boomer glory.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>that arcade games don’t have anymore depth
OP’s pic isn’t arguing that you fricking dunce. It is arguing that arcade games don’t waster your fricking time. All killer no filler. You don’t have to unlock your tool kit, the levels are designed to always be engaging, the down time to rest/reset after a challenge is there with either a short score screen or a small and still skippable cutscene. ER/BOTW/GTA/Ubi shit is 99% down time/time wasting. There is a fine line between Super Metroid exploration to build your arsenal and “bean counters want engagement of x hours, spread the important parts further apart, place more small enemy encampments that only waste resources”.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe video games aren't for you
3 months ago
Anonymous
They were for me then they changed it around 2008 to suit people too stupid to breath through their nose instead of their mouth.
You clearly haven’t played contra and name one modern game with a boss fight. I’ll wait.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>name one modern game with a boss fight
Final Fantasy 13
3 months ago
Anonymous
>2009 >2009 jrpg >modern
3 months ago
Anonymous
jesus fricking christ has it really been that long
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yup. Each day we stray further from god
3 months ago
Anonymous
Don't most games still have boss fights?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Of course they do.
Even frickin' moviegames usually manage to contrive some setpiece encounters that serve as bosses. Even if they usually have about the same game plan as Quake's Chthon.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Really? Name a modern AAA boss that's just running around in a circle while stepping on 3 pressure pads.
>ER and Jedi
Des clones from 2009 not modern, both beatable if you face frick and roll for iframes. Rest is all hidden by bloat. If you die it is because of not grinding gear. Still only three buttons required at most. No different from Contra. Likewise, environment can only kill you if you are asleep. >RE4
2004 is not modern RERE4 equally has boss patterns no different from contra. Only extra layer is bullets run out of ammo. >GoW
Completely scripted, can’t lose. Extra soilent with your sneed oil covered popcorn.
So you haven't played a single one and you're just making shit up that fits your narrative, just as expected.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Works both ways arcade hater. And I have played them. Trying to shit on Contra with From/From clones is like trying to put out a grease fire with water.
I was wondering what would happen to the sycophantic MathewMatosis fans now that he's retired, the answer is move on to parroting Mark at every moment of every day.
This concept of "gameplay density" is stupid.
For example, racing simulators have moments where the "gameplay density" is considered low, because after a lot of practice, you start to drive naturally, without making conscious decisions. But there are times when you have to make a series of decisions, for example in the race for positions, and now the "gameplay density" is high. What does that mean? Nothing, really, it's just a banal description of what's going on and trying to classify entire games based on this is the stuff of pseuds who want to create deep conclusions about trivial things.
Just play phone games like subway surfers and other infinite runners that are desinged to milk 99c out of you for every attempt. "Classic Arcade" was built with the same intentions in mind.
Perturbed Pedro convinced everyone that a polished, tailored, hand crafted gaming experience is not worth their money. Now everything is a 200 hour long open world slog. At least you got a good "Price to dollar ratio" though, right?
>This doesn't actually mean anything.
Yes it means how many meaningful interractions and decisions you make while playing, when watching cutscenes you are not actively playing the game nor engaged by its gameplay, when thinking about what move to make in a turn based game you may not be actively playing but you are still engaged with the game.
so many Ganker posters think they're hot shit veteran gamers & "sees through the bullshit" yet so many got psyopped into hating arcade design & thinking console & PC design is inherently superior cuz of game journos who wanted to shill the latest hardware & treat games as technical showcases. one thing about arcades was that shit didn't matter, console warring didn't matter, "generations" didn't matter; just if the individual games were good. the large scale corporate "gaming events" that define modern video game culture weren't anywhere near as prominent. in meme terms home releases & consoles foster far more of a "consoomer" mentality. >butbut arcade games STEAL YOUR FREAKING MONEY
do you think the home game market is less money-grabbing? that the evil exploitative arcade market was replaced with the PC & console market cuz the latter was just immensely fairer & nicer for some reason? home releases could have insane prices back then when adjusted for inflation & these days things are getting just as bad, with 70bux being the default price for a new "AAA" game. to try a game had to rent it first (way more than a quarter). meanwhile with arcades you could just try a game out for a quarter or two then move on if you didn't like it. if you found something good and were willing to dedicate yourself to getting better at it you could get a ton of gameplay out of it; more and more with each quarter as you learned the mechanics & levels. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ARCADE DESIGN AND PAY2WIN.
density means how often you're actually engaging with the mechanics and not either watching cutscenes, walking around with zero challenge or repeating the same tasks with the same level of challenge. modern games are full of that shit
[...]
PC gamers cry when a game doesn't let you quicksave anywhere you want. meanwhile even console gamers look down on people who savescum.
>PC gamers cry when a game doesn't let you quicksave anywhere you want
Because checkpoint systems are time-wasting mechanics designed to elongate short games.
no they're not moron it means you need to improve your run of a level and tackle every challenge head-on. do you seriously think a player who "finishes" Contra or Metal Slug normally isn't massively more skilled than someone who savescums through them?
>disprove someone with his own source >ignores it because dunning-kruger prevents him from seeing he is wrong >continues to cite is already disproven outdated study actual randomized clinical trials destroyed
lol, there is no cure for being a megamoron
>being designed for short bursts means the games needed to constantly up the difficulty and keep the player engaged while not getting too hard or cheap to make sure they came back.
Completely made-up mental gymnastics that does not translate into reality. What we actually saw with arcades was them becoming harder as time progressed, to the point in the 90's where they were so unforgiving and so blatant in their money-grabbing techniques, that people simply stopped playing them. In theory that works, in practice it doesn't.
>meanwhile with games you buy & own you don't have to keep the player constantly engaged which means you get to add bullshit filler, repetitive tasks, long stretches with no real gameplay etc vs the constant forward momentum & increasing difficulty that defined arcade games.
Except you just insulted your own genre you're trying to defend. Because of the simplicity of arcade games, you are FORCED to constantly re-use repetitive gameplay methods, which could equate to "bullshit filler", while with platform games, you have more development time, more money, and a larger more advanced control scheme to work with. It's why you have never seen an arcade game with controls like pic related.
>except people who weren't stupid with their money would try to get as much gameplay as they could out of a single coin.
Excuses the argument by using ad hominem. So, not an argument.
>the games specifically encouraged getting as much out of a single coin as you could through their scoring
No, they were designed to get you to pump as many quarters into them as possible. They were designed to consistently keep making money. It's why Billy Mitchell, the man who's claim to fame is having a perfect score in Pac-Man, essentially could only achieve it through cheating.
>What we actually saw with arcades was them becoming harder as time progressed, to the point in the 90's where they were so unforgiving and so blatant in their money-grabbing techniques, that people simply stopped playing them
not really. Some games got more difficult to match the increasing skill level of the playerbase, but as a whole arcade games became more accessible and less punishing in the 90s. Even the more difficult games had harder level design and bosses, but were less punishing in the sense that you had to beat the game in one life. This is completely unrelated to arcades dying out though.
>you have more development time, more money, and a larger more advanced control scheme to work with
None of these are true except the last one. Arcade games were the premium entertainment medium with the largest budgets and best tech. Arcades had less control inputs (movement and 2-4 buttons in most cases), but they were also meant to be pick up and play, with a focused experience with little filler. It was about having a very tight and concise gameplay loop with a high degree of challenge and depth within that movement + 2-4 buttons moveset. You are comparing that to a slow-paced simulation game where every tiny little thing you can do has its own button. It's like comparing a cross section of the ocean to a wide puddle.
Great, now post an arcade game that rivals this webm in its depth of combat.
that's a slow-paced cinematic action game. The physics and hit reactions are impressive, but there isn't much depth or challenge to the actual gameplay.
>Completely made-up mental gymnastics that does not translate into reality. What we actually saw with arcades was them becoming harder as time progressed, to the point in the 90's where they were so unforgiving and so blatant in their money-grabbing techniques, that people simply stopped playing them. In theory that works, in practice it doesn't.
this is just complete baseless bullshit outside of bullet hell shmups. compare Final Fight to later Capcom & Konami beat-em-ups to Dynamite Cop lol >Except you just insulted your own genre you're trying to defend. Because of the simplicity of arcade games, you are FORCED to constantly re-use repetitive gameplay methods, which could equate to "bullshit filler",
again, this is about mastery. in a truly great arcade game you can always experiment with new approaches and/or get closer & closer to a perfect run even if you're redoing the same stage over and over. if your best approach is the "Simon Says" one then it's not a good arcade game. play better games! >Excuses the argument by using ad hominem. So, not an argument.
lol what is this ben shapiro debate nerd shit dude? I'm saying that coin-spamming was a waste of money because it was. you got less gameplay time out of it and less mechanical mastery. >No, they were designed to get you to pump as many quarters into them as possible. They were designed to consistently keep making money. It's why Billy Mitchell, the man who's claim to fame is having a perfect score in Pac-Man, essentially could only achieve it through cheating.
dude come on lol even Karl Jobst reached the kill screen in Donkey Kong and he's not even an arcade gamer. you're talking out of your ass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-L2Bj1YnJM
Is your webm supposed to be an example of depth? Because it's the complete opposite.
[...]
You are terminally autistic.
>here's my very autistic nerdy wall-of-text defense of old PC games versus arcade games. bet you feel silly now! >NOOO YOU CAN'T OFFER AN EVEN MORE AUTISTIC DEBUNKING OF MY DEBUNKING WTF YOU LOSER WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT VIDEO GAMES SO MUCH GET A LIFE
Kek, literally the Ganker equivalent of credit feeding.
I feel like "Gameplay Density" is a decent enough term, but it isn't necessarily better to have more of it, it really more or less just depends on the genre.
I wish more people understood that though, since the quality of a game is often based on hours/ dollar ratio instead of overall quality.
I feel like this is going to force genres with high "density" (platformers, action games) into taking on more and more RPG mechanics until they're unrecognizable.
Yes high density of gameplay doesn't automatically mean good game, that's what we're trying to explain to the morons who keep getting accidentally baited by that picture.
>the generation that grew up with all the good shit hated it >the generation that grew up with dogshit want arcade games back
you cannot make this shit up
we live in a cursed time line
I'm -10 years away from being 30 and the
video landscape will not change for us to remember how new games are made. It startswith an open world title and slowly becomes democracy and then you can't stop playing it.
Total Boomer Death. I can’t believe there are autistic gen Xers who actually think Double Dragons is more complex than building in Fortnite at a pro level.
I feel like "Gameplay Density" is a decent enough term, but it isn't necessarily better to have more of it, it really more or less just depends on the genre.
I wish more people understood that though, since the quality of a game is often based on hours/ dollar ratio instead of overall quality.
I feel like this is going to force genres with high "density" (platformers, action games) into taking on more and more RPG mechanics until they're unrecognizable.
I think RPGs are better with more gameplay density and less immersion too but telling the average RPG player what my favorite Japanese RPGs are makes me look like a crazy person
I do like "movie/book-like games" too (lately I've enjoyed returning to a few of the aforementioned point & click adventure games & Shenmue) but few of them are interesting enough to beat watching or reading something and I wouldn't say they're superior to a nonstop action game
Skills only matter when you're building a house. Video games require no skills because they are vapid entertainment. Get a clue you fricking loser.
again, turning into an IGN guy who wants From Software games to have an easy mode when someone likes slightly harder games than you.
Stop posting this every day, you gad damned fricking sperge. Also arcade games are shallow as frick moron
>arcade games are shallow as frick
zoom zoom
moron
yes. zoom zoom moron
>t. 0 clears shitter who only plays movieslop
Post your GoW 2018 highest difficulty playthrough otherwise you don't get to say shit.
I've beaten the three original God of War games on the hardest difficulties. I'm not playing that shallow walkie-talkie movieslop, frick outta here.
Compare webm related to
and
>playing dmc lite
I love that we're now so far removed from the original GOW series that zoomers are claiming to be hardcore for beating this square spam game
None of you even play action games, just regurgitate what you hear from other posers. Post clears.
It may be a square spam game but at least it doesn't pretend to be high art and respects your time by not shoving 10 hours of cutscenes and walking sections down your throat.
I don't think that's square spam in that webm.
Button mashing barely even works on the easiest difficulty. Enemies are very aggressive and recover faster on higher difficulties and you have less resources and take a ton of damage so you would not even past the first screen by just button mashing.
It's worse
The elder Gen Alphas are turning teenagers now, they are old enough to be underage b&, they are here, right now. Their takes suck ass. If you think zoomer thoughts are disgusting, GA are going to be like remote eldritch beings, incomprehensible.
I've noticed that these threads don't have the usual /vg/ and /vr/ shitposting points so you might be right.
They need to be called gen autist or gen aspie.
so, like the average sharty?
Turtles in Time was always basic as frick and that's like the pinnacle of the genre
What genre? The beat 'em up genre? I think fans of that genre would probably disagree.
Also making a game more complex doesn't mean making it more fun, only specific genres like cRPGs can only gain from more complexity and even then they need some balance to really shine.
>fans of that genre
lmao all 3 of them, with an average age of 55
It's only highly regarded by casuals.
the fact that people don't think the arcade version of Turtles in Time is a garbage game, or even consider it exceptionally good, shows they don't understand beat-em-up design at all
>grabs & throws are one of the fundamental aspects of crowd control
>why don't we randomize grabs lol
arcade Turtles in Time was specifically made for America. meanwhile the SNES version came out in Japan too; lo & behold it's not unfair garbage and you can just do throws manually when enemies are hitstunned, because Japanese players weren't stupid enough to fall for terrible design. "well no, that's because it's a console game and arcades are unfair" nope. Simpsons similarly had a Japanese version and a global version based on its US "rebalancing" - the latter jumps through hoops to make sure you can't just get good at the game & instead forces you to spam quarters. meanwhile the Japanese version is immensely fairer https://tcrf.net/The_Simpsons_(Arcade)#Gameplay
when arcade games didn't have an end I'm sure Americans understood them better and just tried to get as much gameplay as possible out of a single coin. yet as they evolved more & developed a clearer sense of progression, something clicked in their dumb burger brains and they started thinking arcade games are something you don't even try to learn and instead credit-spam to "see the game".
Konami released crime Fighters 2/Vendetta around the same time. compared to Turtles in Time and the US version of Simpsons you can get IMMENSELY more gameplay out of just a few coins. why? cuz it wasn't made specifically for America (it had a bunch of sexual shit that had to be removed for the US) and it wasn't based on a popular license so US Konami employees didn't care enough to "rebalance" it to make it unfair.
So basically Japs are a bunch of baby casuals while AMERICAN MEN can handle struggle and adversary.
no they didn't lol they just coin-spammed to see the game cuz they didn't care about mastery
where's the "skill" in randomized throws?
I read that when you posted it here before and it was a crock of shit. I'll try to reply if this thread doesn't max out and die
the comment is still up by the way. he didn't delete it. no wonder you're willing to lie given how disingenuous your "epic logic-owns" are!
>the comment is still up by the way
No shit moron, I literally just said "Here is another comment I left". Try reading next time.
Also, what the frick do you mean you read that when I posted it here? That's the first time I've posted that you dipshit liar.
>only controls are movement keys, a jump and one attack (if that)
>Ganker "boomers" will pretend this is gameplay with a lot of depth
which arcade game are you talking about?
simplicity and depth don't contradict each other
Fricking PINBALL nowadays has more depth than most AAA vidya, and that shit is controlled with only 2 buttons most of the time.
>"we hate CASUALS and GOYSLOP. we play REAL GAMES"
>is the video game version of someone who thinks Warhammer 40k has more "depth" than chess because there's more "content"
He's right.
Show me a single belt scroller with any depth made before 1999. I’ll wait until I die of old age.
Wangan midnight is kino
holy fricking based my man
>TONIGHT MY SOUL DEPARTS
still gives me a stiffy whenever I start up and hear it
?si=jXEOxaZLPFPaT94b
>Stop posting this every day, you gad damned fricking sperge. Also arcade games are shallow as frick moron
Fpbp
Less is more, that why AAA games are better
>Less is more, that why AAA games are better
did you think through this sentence before writing it
Forgot my pic.
It's important that casuals, shitters, and posers know their place.
Based, and this.
Arcades are designed for cheap, quick, low-effort satisfaction. They are bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of gameplay.
so are they too hard or are they low-effort and cheap. make up your mind
>too hard
>or they are too low effort
>make up your mind
Both. It's not complicated or difficult making a game hard. Forcing the player to take damage at intervals to ensure that they dump more quarters is not good game design. It's (ahem) "Arcade" design.
>Arcade forces you to take damage
Or maybe you're a moron who can't play.
FPBP
Say cheese for the archive, samegay-kun.
Basically this. I saw one of Electric Underground's videos a year or so ago, thought he was a nobody (which he is), and ignored him and his moronic opinions.
More samegayging.
>I watched (insert youtuber or homosexual) and now I think (x about y)
have you TRIED playing an arcade game?
There are games that contain a good amount of dense gameplay, pseudoregalia comes to mind. But i already know this is just a bait thread made by some electric underground fanboy that probably can't clear NES Gradius 2
have a nice day, you loathsome furgay
>Metroidvania indie game
Dense shit
Roguelikes are games without any challenge as are all games that focus on grinding
>roguelikes focus on grinding
Most don't and it's more of a accessability feature so that even nongamers can bruteforce their way through if they put in enough hours.
The vast majority of roguelikes do indeed focus on grinding, the only ones that don't are DCSS and Sil-Q.....i can't even name another one
rogue, nethack, angband, all of their variants, all of the games directly modeled after them
moron
All those games incentivize grinding you dumbfrick, did you even play them?
>pseudoregalia
I really tried to like this trash, but I just couldn't
OP's mom is dense and only requires one quarter to play with her if you know what i mean
Too many cooks.
Too many managers trying to bloat their metrics by producing bloat.
Too much useless shit gets produced that they end up trying to cram in due to sunk cost fallacy.
Too much outsourcing done with shit communication.
No one understands flow, it's easier to just render everything into soup.
This gets more and more moronic everytime it's reposted
why cant you go back?
>neogeo8man
Man who formed his entire identity around being a retro gaming elitist accuses others of being elitist.
You're seriously gonna pretend that Ganker isn't elitist in the slightest? The board that prides itself on only playing the most "hardcore" games while never touching "goyslop" isn't elitist?
1. In the first place, this dude accuses Ganker of being goyslop enjoyers and defending the modern aaa.
2. Compared to the retro game fart sniffers Ganker is normie zoomer central.
It's all a sham though, Ganker is dishonest as frick and just parrots what they think they should for "board credit". It's literal npc behavior but of a different flavor in falling in line. Yet when it comes time to prove it more often than not it turns out Ganker are a bunch of casuals that all get filtered, or even more often literal gameless gays who don't play anything and just come here to b***h and culture war.
Ganker prides itself on not paying any games and shitting on everything. Frick off to reddit, homosexual.
Yeah, don't mess with us Gankerners dude.
>not touching goyslop is elitist
that means you have taste and standards. i wouldn't expect you to know what either of those are though you absolute moron
What games have you played recently?
I swear this simple question paralyzes most shitposters.
strawman
revisionism
false equivalency. there is "hardcore" goyslop and there is piss easy goyslop. goyslop comes in all genres and in all forms. likewise there are great "'hardcore'" games, and there are great piss easy games.
Ganker doesn't take pride in playing the most "hardcore" games. Ganker takes pride in knowing that the games others like are shit and refuse to elaborate further
Ganker hasn't been that way for like 10 years at this point homosexual.
furthermore our elitism is earned. remember when a furry br with infinite ping crushed reddit's elite team at tribes?
>remember when a furry br with infinite ping crushed reddit's elite team at tribes?
The glory belongs to the players who won that match, you're like a cuck bragging about how his wife came twice when all you did was watch and jerk off.
Ganker hates every game equally, every exception to this is a joke
Dude, the number of times i asked for proof about beating certain difficulty and this Black folk just refuse to give proof because they know they'd be exposed is aatonishingly high
It wasn't him who made this picture, turbonewbie.
he posted it though, he posts it here everyday
give proof or take your meds
>n-no u!!!
lol
hi tapir, gonna post some seething rage threads on twatter again?
>he
what did tapir ever do yo you for you to become so obsessed to the point of editing screencaps with the profile pic of his mutuals?
>e-celeb Black person calling other newbie
oh the ironing
>discord / twitter screenshots and drama
nobody cares for this shit
anyone who posts screencaps of social media is a normie that doesn't fit in here in the 1st place
who the hell cares
why is this guy blow so much smoke up this one youtuber's ass
does* even
>Someone makes simple pic about an idea
>Someone on EKS formerly known as twatter: UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
He is right and perfectly explains in a single sentence why that image makes Ganker so mad.
That dude is trying way to hard to sound smart.
Why should I listen to a literary who twitter Black person? Also aracades are shallow af
>Literary who
I guess I have to agree, I also didn’t know that x users was an author. Is it some fanfic blog or an Amazon published wank fest?
You've been repeating yourself the whole thread and you're still wrong.
>appeal to authority on an anonymous imageboard
That's how you recognize r*dditors, attacking the messenger and not the message, still waiting for a single proper argument to debunk his post btw.
oh shit we almost had a thread that wasn't twittershit. thanks, twitter anon.
I have no idea what he is trying to say.
/v/: me hardcore, me no play casual shit
arcade player: wanna try my games?
/v/: gif related
Console games were better than arcade games. Who would want to play that shitty arcade Bionic Commando over the Famicom port?
>names one arcade game of thousands whose home port is better than the arcade version
I’m sure he loves NES Stryder more too.
Contra and Super Contra Famicom versions were better than the arcade versions by a mile.
Not by a mile, but they were a bit better. Ninja Gaiden as well. But those are just the 1% outliers, 99% of arcade versions were better than home ports
Arcade games were just cheap throw away experiences compared to what was on the Famicom.
You're a moron and haven't cleared any of these games.
I've beaten Metal Slug on 1 credit plenty of times. It's well designed unlike most arcade games and every other game in the series.
Metal Slug 1 is great, but 2 is an improvement in every way, and 4 is also great. Sounds like you just got filtered.
Sounds like you have very limited experience with arcade games. DoDonPachi, Alien vs. Predator, Elevator Action Returns, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, TGM, Outrun, Battle Garegga, Shock Troopers, In The Hunt, Puzzle Bobble, Metal Slug, Darius Gaiden, Sunset Riders, Klax, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Raiden, etc.
Arcade game level design was the furthest thing from "basic". It was incredibly dense and challenging.
see
>but 2 is an improvement in every way
The last two levels are pure slop.
>Arcade game level design was the furthest thing from "basic"
You literally (not hyperbole) just listed a bunch of games with straight lines for levels with no platforming at all. At least pretend you actually play the games you hear youtubers talking about.
post clears you stupid shitter. You cry about "muh quarter munchers!!!" and don't know of any arcade games except the absolute most popular mainstream ones. It's blatantly obvious you are a poser homosexual with no clears.
>It's blatantly obvious you are a poser homosexual with no clears
That's what everyone thinks when they see your thread for the thousandth time.
Arcade games were the premium experience of the time. With more depth, challenge, larger budgets, and better tech.
They were shallow games with flashy graphics. The monetization practice necessitated very basic level design.
Quite the opposite. Arcade games were typically shorter but with much more complex and challenging level design, while console games were usually a lot longer with more filler and less challenging.
Seems weird to take this us vs. them mindset, when both types of games were fundamentally very similar.
The last two levels are the two most challenging levels and the culmination of the game. The final boss is one of the most challenging and dynamic boss fights not just in arcade gaming but in general. Without those final two levels, the game would be a hollow shell of its self.
Elevator Action Returns is not a straight line at all, but these games listed don't have a ton of verticality because they aren't platformers... they are puzzle games or shmups/run and guns with a focus primarily on shooting, dodging, and routing strategy.
Platformers weren't as popular in the Arcade as they were on home console, but you can still definitely find plenty, like Cadash, Black Tiger, Hero of Tonma, Rastan, Cannon Dancer, Strider, Liquid Kids, Spinmaster, Willow, Bonk's Adventure, Makaimura, Daimakaimura, etc. many of which stand toe-to-toe with the best on the NES/SNES.
>The final boss is one of the most challenging and dynamic boss fights not just in arcade gaming but in general
How long have you been trying to push this nonsense? You don't even play these games you schizo moron.
You crying about it doesn't change the fact that I have no-miss cleared all the NEOGEO Slugs. I know it's inconceivable to the shitter that there are people that actually play and clear these games.
We've heard this lie plenty of times now. Get new material.
yes, I've got plenty of new clears since then.
You've definitely cleared plenty of youtube videos.
That's pretty bald claim, surely you've got a recording to back it up. If you didn't record it, fair. Surely you can do it again, but with a recording this time?
If you know, you know. Not entertaining shitters.
The guy you're replying to doesn't actually play any arcade games. He discovered a youtube channel that discusses them and became obsessed.
>That's pretty bald claim
Anon, you are replying to a shitposter complaining that shmups, puzzle games, or fighting games don't have platforming, stop wasting your time.
Thanks.
>hey you like hard core games right?
>okay how about we play a game of quake and overwatch then?
>UHHHH NOOOOOO MUH HAT GAEM AIEEEEEE troonyS *inane ramblings about mechanics that make no no logical sense despite being casual babies*
>what about counter strike
>MUH SHOTS WERE MISSED BECAUSE OF RNG*completely misunderstanding game mechanics* CHEATERS AHHHHH
>overwatch
>skill
Modern gaming is like driving through east texas(incredibly flat and barren with very few towns to even get gas), 360 generation is like driving through I dunno, Florida(more life, more towns, still can have long stretches of fricking nothing), and old gaming(arcade-ps2) is driving through New England (where you not only hit towns and major cities rather quickly, you are also crossing state lines rapidly). It isn’t so much about mechanics as it is what you get to do with them and the amount of time it takes to get to the good bits.
what's the analogy for replaying the first level until its nauseatingly repetitive?
Failing your driver license test over and over again.
>Eletricuck Underground
He got so butthurt about my comment that was a point-by-point deconstruction of his entire video and how he was completely and utterly wrong, and then deleted it.
Frick that stupid troony Black person, lmao, he's a fricking dork who can't take differing opinions, and thinks R-Type is the best video game ever made, and thinks only SHMUPS and Beat em ups matter. He's a fricking troglodyte. He'd shit his pants if he tried playing something with depth.
>He got so butthurt about my comment that was a point-by-point deconstruction of his entire video and how he was completely and utterly wrong, and then deleted it.
I'm sure this happened.
>thinks R-Type is the best video game ever made
Great bait, enjoy your (You).
>not addressing the point
>"trust me bro I made a giant completely DESTROYING him with FACTS and LOGIC but I can't provide it cuz he deleted it lol"
Yes. I did. This is another comment I left on one of his videos deconstructing his attempt at trying to prove why arcade games have the "Best game design" and are the historic "basis" for video gaming.
>1 - Difficulty Curve Is Gone - Wholly accurate, but it's a misattribution to claim that arcade games "perfected" difficulty. First off, Arcade games were designed foremost to keep the line of people moving in order to maximize profit. I would say console and PC games perfected difficulty curves better than Arcades for this reason alone, as once you bought the game, they had no incentive to keep you pumping quarters in or to move on to the next player. The term "quarter-muncher" exists for a reason, and it's a term that originated during the peak of the arcades in the 80's.
his video specifically brings up this misconception and addresses it, in great detail. what's the point of bringing it up again?
being designed for short bursts means the games needed to constantly up the difficulty and keep the player engaged while not getting too hard or cheap to make sure they came back. meanwhile with games you buy & own you don't have to keep the player constantly engaged which means you get to add bullshit filler, repetitive tasks, long stretches with no real gameplay etc vs the constant forward momentum & increasing difficulty that defined arcade games.
>2 - Market Caters to Unskilled Players - True, however, arcades equally cater to unskilled players by allowing as many continues as you have money to dump into them, meaning anyone of even the lowest skill level can complete the game, given enough time and money, which eerily mirrors the Pay 2 Win model of modern games.
except people who weren't stupid with their money would try to get as much gameplay as they could out of a single coin. the games specifically encouraged getting as much out of a single coin as you could through their scoring, ranking & power-up systems. classic PC games also often had cheatcodes; do those make the games "casual filth"? give me a break dude.
continuing in next post
>3 - Gameplay Density is Gone - This one, I have a major problem with. While it is true that in the 70's and early 80's, video games did used to be much shorter, for RPG's this was not the case at ALL. Even as early as Ultima 1 you had games reaching the 6 or 7 hour mark, and that's 1981. Fast forward only a few years to 1985 and you have Ultima IV being up to 30 hours long, and a few more years, and you have Wizardry 6 clocking in at over 40 hours in length, beating many modern RPG's which you claim to just be empty deserts of content. Using arcades as a scale to measure appropriate game length is also flawed since, again, they were aiming to maximize player-count, not maximize content, which they were sorely lacking in comparison to their console and PC brethren, since you were supposed to be designing games that were about 30 minutes long, with controls and choices that were simple and straight forward. You could not allow players time to explore and develop an impactful story or have complex multi-level game mechanics since you had people tapping their feet, waiting in line to be next up to play.
this is so fricking bad lol. Mark constantly addresses his position, that "content" doesn't mean much if it lacks meaningful gameplay engagement and that games focused around "content" are often rife with filler; the polar opposite of the design philosophy he's championing. this paragraph really says nothing beyond "but muh content. have you REALLY considered muh content?"
>You could not allow players time to explore and develop an impactful story
jesus christ dude
Ah so it's a butthurt jarpig homosexual, no wonder his giant wall of text has as much substance as the games he plays.
Wizardry isn't a JRPG, moron.
I'm sorry, warpig homosexual*
Great, now post an arcade game that rivals this webm in its depth of combat.
>BTFOing braindead AIs that pose no threats = depth
The player in your webm is not even trying to block or avoid attacks, he just tanks everything, amazing.
Is your webm supposed to be an example of depth? Because it's the complete opposite.
You are terminally autistic.
>You are terminally autistic.
I know you are
>heh, Donkey Kong is such a shallow braindead quarter muncher; only an imbecile could be entertained by such simplistic drivel...
>*shows you 100+ page document covering mechanics and advanced strategies*
>NOOOOOOOOOO YOU ARE JUST AUTISTIC!!!
lmao, fricking moron
>Occasionally a Donkey Kong player will learn the game in seclusion or in isolated communities. When this happens certain language about the game develops differently than it would have under other influences. As a result, there exists a variety of labels, terms, and expressions to describe the same game. For example, one may use the terms, ‘level’, ‘screen’, ‘stage’, or ‘board’ to refer to the same thing. Likewise, one may prefer to say ‘conveyor’ instead ‘pie factory’ or likes to say ‘elevators’ instead of ‘springs’. This manual recognizes the legitimacy of all the language which has developed over the years. However, for the sake of simplicity and uniformity, this manual has chosen specific terms and has tried to stay consistent with our usage. Whichever language you may prefer, we hope that you will be able to follow the meaning of the text.
Yeah, if you write like this you can stretch anything to 100+ pages and it's pure autism.
Calling it autistic again is still not an argument.
>Focus: To be successful at Donkey Kong, one has to stay completely focused. Probably the two biggest reasons for loss of focus while playing Donkey Kong is: 1) When there is a loss of a life, and 2) When everything seems to be going your way.
>Whenever you have an in-game death, there is a great tendency to become either angry or discouraged. Sometimes you can get angry because the death was due to a mistake, and sometimes you can get angry because it seemed like it was a nearly unavoidable death (players call these “screwings”). However, it is imperative that you remain calm and continue to focus. It is good if you are upset in a way that makes you more focused, but if it causes you to rush and make bad decisions, it is not going to help. You can’t just magically do better at the game because you are upset; the game still runs by the same rules. Furthermore, becoming apathetic simply due to a death is also not good. Granted, there are some times where not caring about the specific game you are on is statistically reasonable -such as maybe if you lost a life too early in the game and it would be wiser to just restart, or maybe you have already lost too many lives for reaching a Killscreen to be feasible. However, especially when you are new to the game, it is often helpful to push through a death and continue while trying to “come from behind”, as it were.
>Also, sometimes people can become apathetic, fearful, or even discouraged when one of their deaths is caused by situations that seem to be completely out of their control. Sometimes a fireball or firefox will trap you, or barrels won’t go where you want them to go, or Donkey Kong may throw several difficult wild barrels in a row so that it seems like there is no possible way to survive. In a situation like this, it seems like all your best efforts do nothing. For these reasons it is easy to understand why a player might get discouraged, but one needs to remember that most of the game is not that way. Statistically, if one plays perfectly sound Donkey Kong, they will eventually reach the Killscreen –and probably more than once, at that!
>Lastly, many people lose focus due to the game becoming easy. Very often, once you have developed enough skill, you will have long stretches of easy screens. It is quite easy to lose focus by ‘going into autopilot.’ Zoning out and not paying close attention can be costly once the game’s good randomness decides to take a turn for the worseworst and mix up the rhythm. It is always better to stay alert and focused as much as you can -even when the game seems to be going fairly easily. In other words, good randomness can lure a player into a false sense of security and begin to train your mind to hope for the best instead of always being alert and ready to respond to the worst. Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. Position yourself to take advantage of opportunities, but not at the expense of trapping yourself if the randomness turns on you.
>Always remember that there is a strong tendency to die twice in a row due to loss of focus. When you die, the frustration, fear, discouragement, or laziness hindering you must go away within the next 5 seconds because, by then, you will already be on your next life -and you don’t want to be carrying any extra emotional baggage from the last death. It is also important to realize that it is impossible to know what kind of bad randomness or personal mistakes lay ahead of you, so it does no good to worry about those either. The only thing you can do is be ready mentally and improve your skills as much as possible to be able to deal with all the possibilities that may occur. It can take a lot of time and emotional angst, but what is always necessary for a Donkey Kong player to succeed is complete focus!
This is one and a half pages from the manual wasted on explaining nothing, but I guess it's to be expected from someone who'd spend months of his time playing Donkey Kong.
Congratulations on proving that twitter post right again
Game?
The Adventures of Ten and Till
Thanks. I've been looking for more shmups but it's getting increasingly difficult with all the survivor clones crowding the tag.
If you're looking for more games then allow me to shill these as well, if you don't feel like buying shit you can still play the free ones, or just pirate, I don't really care.
>Like Dreamer
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1867740/Like_Dreamer/
https://www.freem.ne.jp/brand/6400 (freeware games from the same dev)
>Mecha Ritz
https://store.steampowered.com/app/463070/Mecha_Ritz_Steel_Rondo/ (very forgiving shmup as you get lots of shield points and bombs)
https://www.freem.ne.jp/win/game/8513 (older free version of the game)
>ZeroRanger
https://store.steampowered.com/app/809020/ZeroRanger/
>DRAINUS
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1975360/DRAINUS/ (from the Touhou Luna Nights dev, the game is very beginner friendly and probably the most beautiful shmup that came out recently)
>BLUE REVOLVER
https://store.steampowered.com/app/439490/BLUE_REVOLVER/
>Gunvein
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2025840/Gunvein/
>Crimzon Clover World EXplosion
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1718160/Crimzon_Clover_World_EXplosion/
>Mushihimesama
https://store.steampowered.com/app/377860/Mushihimesama/ (a classic from Cave but not beginner friendly at all)
>Deathsmiles
https://store.steampowered.com/app/314180/Deathsmiles/ (horizontal shmup with goth e-girls, easier than mushi but still challenging)
holy mother of slop
just emulate the classics you damned zoomer moron
It's a bit late to make /shmupg/ baits don't you think?
Thanks. I already played most of them though.
Didn't really like the demos of Gunvein and ZeroRanger, and I got Mecha Ritz wishlisted.
>quite literally only a single good game in that image
absolutely grim
Great taste and great collection anon.
>OH EM GEE IS THAT A GIANT CLOUD OF PIXEL SLOP THAT YOU STEER A GENERIC ANIME GIRL THROUGH!!!??
>I MUST KNOW THE NAME!!
holy shit kys reddit tourist
>getting mindbroken by the most basic and common question on Ganker
Ninja Saviors is so awesome
>*one enemy by itself*
>*slowly lumber over to enemy as it just stands there*
>*use overhead sword attack*
>*wait two seconds for attack to finish*
>*slowly lumber over to punching bag enemy that is stunlocked and unable to move*
>*do the exact same overhead sword attack again*
>*wait another two seconds for attack to finish*
>*slowly lumber over to punching bag enemy that is stunlocked and unable to move*
>*do the exact same overhead sword attack again*
>*slowly lumber over to punching bag enemy that is stunlocked and unable to move*
>*kick it off the edge*
>*slowly lumber off to repeat the same thing on another punching bag*
wow, what an incredible p̶h̶y̶s̶i̶c̶s̶ s̶i̶m̶u̶l̶a̶t̶o̶r video game
Ahhh, so the butthurt arcade-homosexual quit the debate. His attention span lasts as long as the games he plays, I see.
>after defeating the dog
This webm will never not be dishonest
4. arcade games facilitated innovation in the realm of games with non-stop mechanical engagement over immersion, stat-based faux-progression and storytelling. your counter-examples of "PC innovation" are, as much as I enjoy classic adventure games, less about having a consistently mechanically engaging game and more about having a semi-interactive story with logic puzzles sprinkled throughout. I'm using my brain way less often when playing Monkey Island versus when I'm playing a shmup or beat-em-up - think of how much of your "gameplay" is just going through every dialogue option or hearing every item description from Guybrush vs actually solving puzzles.
5. so games should pursue realism over mechanical engagement? you dismiss all scoring mechanics as "nonsensical" then go "but muh achievements" which also encourage "unrealistic, nonsensical" play while offering a much shallower way of gauging overall player skill. score is like achievements time 100 - a truly good scoring system evaluates all player actions in tandem.
6. more appeals to "muh story, muh realism, muh exploration". none of these actually facilitate constant challenge and mechanical engagement - they facilitate immersion. what you're saying is essentially that reading a choose-your-own adventure book is a more advanced, deeper and more cerebral experience than playing a game of chess.
7.
>Force Players To Engage - They are already engaged if they are playing the game in the first place
not necessarily engaged with the actual game mechanics though! that's the point; you keep appealing to things that aren't gameplay. the whole point of the video is that games are moving away from gameplay density.
>The only reason that mechanic exists is to encourage players to make heavy risks which in turn results in them inevitably taking damage, in order to "quarter-munch" them.
your mind immediately goes to "coin-munching" versus mastery. like the joy of perfecting a challenging task, of MASTERING a mix of mechanics and level design versus merely "getting past it", doesn't exist.
>Likewise, "content" doesn't mean much when it consists of micro-seconds of repetitive "filler" that are consistently added together.
they're not dummy. good arcade games constantly introduce new ideas and synergize existing enemy types in brand new ways that make you constantly switch up your strategies and keep more & more things in mind as you play.
>Pressing the shoot button on a SHMUP is objectively less engaging than a monster encounter in a dungeon involving thinking, strategizing, and long-term planning in a game likw Wizardry.
try to 1CC Dodonpachi or Final Fight and tell me you're making less moment-to-moment strategic decisions mixed with overall planning vs the average WRPG. you'd have a way better case if you were comparing them to a good RTS instead of WRPGs.
I actually do enjoy the IDEA of RPGs but few really grab me because they lack mechanical engagement. a Japanese RPG for 5 year old boys like Medabots wipes the floor with most WRPGs (or JRPGs for that matter) focused around immersion & story in terms of moment-to-moment strategizing gameplay yet most RPG fans consider that an abomination BECAUSE it lacks the focus on those "life replacement" elements.
1. the difficulty is perfected because it needs to both keep the good players engaged by making them come back and to keep the shitters out of arcade cabinets or as fast as possible or to make them credit feed like morons as much as possible to maximize profits as you say, this is a point that he already addressed multiple times.
2.
>credit feeding = clear
Yeah no point in reading any further.
>Yeah no point in reading any further.
I accept your concession.
>Mark constantly addresses his position, that "content" doesn't mean much if it lacks meaningful gameplay engagement and that games focused around "content" are often rife with filler
Likewise, "content" doesn't mean much when it consists of micro-seconds of repetitive "filler" that are consistently added together. Pressing the shoot button on a SHMUP is objectively less engaging than a monster encounter in a dungeon involving thinking, strategizing, and long-term planning in a game likw Wizardry.
>the polar opposite of the design philosophy he's championing. this paragraph really says nothing beyond "but muh content. have you REALLY considered muh content?"
More strawmanning. I accept your concession.
>doesn't address my points
I accept your concession.
>strawmans my post
Can't say I'm surprised. After all, precisely what I expected from someone with a lack of dedication and focus that he can't imagine playing a game for more than 30 minutes, lmao.
>still doesn't address my points
Good job.
>address his points directly
>"You didn't address my points
Nice debate tactic. I can see we're going nowhere, fast, much like your arcade games that are dead.
You still haven't addressed my simple points and kept playing dumb to ignore the other guy, nice debate tactic, see you next thread.
>all that misguided shitter cope
kek, and not a single clear to your name. embarrassing.
>blah blah blah Half Life 1 is peak genius game design
>But then those sections end, and you go back to slowly making your way through the facility, perfectly punctuating the high-octane moments with more atmospheric segments. They compliment each other, which is what gameplay needs.
dude this isn't hardcore gamer insight this is Super Bunny Hop "quiet time" bullshit and only applies to games with movie-like progression or "immersion"/life-replacement qualities. you know a better way to get "quiet time"? take a break from the game and do something else. would Tetris or Pac-Man be better if you took breaks to explore a world & talk to NPCs?
You guys might want to ask /shmupg/ for backup if you want to actually shitpost about Mark because this is pretty embarrassing so far.
Kek, he deleted it.
was he right about the timers?
Of course not you frick-stupid spook. Timers limit immersion. They are good for isolated gameplay gimmicks for certain things, but basing your entire game around them is an archaic design rooted in arcade mentality where you were trying to force people to get off your machine if they were too good. If they didn't succumb to the damage, they succumbed to the timer.
The only genre's its really intrinsically important to are racing games and fighting games.
>He thinks he isn’t on a timer right now
Classic Arcade games lost and modern Roguelikes won, by every subjective and objective measure. You need to go back.
>high density of gameplay
>only way for the game to not become redundant is through ramped up difficulty and charging quarters(at best) for credits
>you have been conditioned into thinking this was the best thing ever
good goy
define gameplay
>arcade games are d-ACK!
I thought japanese arcades were dying.
They are, for everyone one of these 10 closed or are GIGO arcades with a million floors of claw machines and gachapon trash
What happened recently that made people suddenly not go to arcades anymore? They've had consoles for as long as in the west so it ain't that.
Same as always: home consoles, destruction of social structures and personability, phone games, less attraction to that type of arcadey game, etc
They’re having a bit of a revival in the US due to the proliferation of barcades, in Japan there’s still plenty of retro arcades but they’re dwindling, and Japs just love clawslop and gachaslop too much, even the arcade games that are new like the Fate arcade game have gacha mechanics built in.
so in other words we're devolving as a species
Humans always tried to go towards the path of least resistance but it makes no sense for videogames to become entirely devoid of challenge, like where is the goddamn "game"
They have become a niche industry since the start of this millenium but its not like they disappeared, in very big cities there will always be a place for them, what you heard was probably the news about Sega selling their arcade business to another company, doesn't mean those arcades are shutting down though
>GiGo
Garbage in, garbage out?
Gigo is shutting down too now. These arcades just aren't sustainable in a post-scamdemic world.
Bandai Namco is taking them over, but for how long?
300 FLOORS OF ANIME 3D FIGHTER SLOP
500 FLOORS OF GACHA
1 floor of tekken
>Bandai Namco is taking them over
That's gonna be a positive i think
Also here's one of the oldest japanese arcades that is still active
>These arcades just aren't sustainable in a post-scamdemic world.
I remember reading some Japanese comments when this news came out saying that Japanese people always lament the closure of places such as this but nobody actually wants to give up the convenience of doing everything online. They even play claw games online now.
It was an inevitability, but arcades were always going to die off. Japan was just one of the last places to be affected by it all due to them being the primarily manufacturers of arcade machines in the first place.
Gachas always put a hurting on the arcade scene, but prior to 2020, gachas didn't exactly break the normalgay barrier so both could coexist.
Now with VTubers making Japanese people gain an interest into PCs beyond where you do your Microsoft Office crap. It makes me sad. By the time I get around to visiting Japan, the arcade scene will be a shell of its former self.
I had no idea that Sega place got sold off. How fricking depressing.
>modern slop
🙁
>modern slop
🙁
>classic slop
:O
Extremely dense gameplay is tiring, games went from spending a short amount of time in the arcade to spending hours upon hours in front of your screen. Highly intensive gameplay is mentally and physically exhausting so it's in stark opposition to the whole "gamer lifestyle"
What the frick did he mean by this
Are you guys moronic?
Are you?
No, because I could understand what he said quite easily.
Clearly not because my post perfectly explained why arcade games can be allowed to be very intense unlike modern games.
Then you are just agreeing with him. Sorry then if that was your intention, I thought your post was sarcastic or something.
Learn to read, what he thinks is a problem is already solved but he doesn't know that because he doesn't play arcade games.
Good thing arcade games aren't 8 hours long right?
classic arcaCK!
I lost again, better give the machine another coin
*loop until you can't pay anymore*
Because it was shit and is better now
Arcade games were israeli as frick. Imagine being charged per-death nowadays?
You have to spend your time instead, imagine spending 100+ hours on a game where you spend most of your time walking around, zero challenge, zero meaning.
>You have to spend your time instead
you do that when you replay the first level a 100 times.
The edits from last thread are better than the original image. The square for arcade design should be 1/4 big because most arcade games aren't even one hour long, and being very hard (coin muncher) dosen't count as longevity. Coin feed is discouraged because it pulls the curtain back and you see just how little of an experience it really is.
The square isn't indicating the length of the game you fricking moron.
But it can, and should.
I've tried many arcade games in the last while and to be honest I just don't care for the pacing that much. for instance, batman and robin on genesis is a really cool game, but after the second level I'm tired of how relentless it is. I think my limit for pacing is a doom clone.
Doom and its clones only have pacing if you never save and only restart from the beginning of a level and even then those games like most computer games are intended to be played with quicksaves and quickload
You are replaying a good game 100 times instead of some slop that is only 100 hours long because they filled it with meaningless, useless content.
>Doom and its clones only have pacing if you never save and only restart from the beginning of a level
most people in the know approach the average doom clone intending to do this, and yes I do it.
I want to say it was 2010 the paid shills at the time (Rooster Teeth/IGN/Giant Bomb) were all trying to get gamers to agree a 4-6 hour game(that was still padded to hell and back by walking sections to hide massive load times) was totally way better than 10+ because a lot of high profile games were getting shit from fans for clearly being truncated. When they lost that war was the moment they shifted to the barren open world format and even more rpg mechanics and time gates to make sure it took as long as possible without actually being fun.
i got tired of replaying stage 1 a trillion times
simple as
What game(s)?
For me it was the non-photography 2hus.
I find it funny how upset people get when being told arcade games are actually peak gaming. I think it bugs people because they know deep down that the dense single session game is better and not wasting their time but ultimately they just simply aren’t up to the task of playing that type of challenging game and would rather play slop instead and they resent it.
Or people recognize you are just overglorifying skinner boxes out of contrarianism because you are young and don't have to waste money away on the actual games.
1CCing an arcade game like a Cave game is literally the opposite of a Skinner box.
We did. Look at Vampire Survivors, a hit game that outsold every single AAAA and is 100% gameplay.
Its 100% gambling, the exact opposite of an arcade game.
Other than flashing visuals, there next to no RNG. If flashing colors makes a game gambling, then nearly every game is gambling.
IT. IS. LITERALLY. A. SLOT. MACHINE
Play the game dumbass. You can control your build every time. Flashing lights are just that, flashy.
>y-you can control your build
Yeah when you have tons of gold for rerolls and item bans when you are already far into the metaprogression, i'm not saying that the game is hard btw, i'm saying that it's full of RNG regardless of how you twist it.
It's even easier in the beginning because of fewer item unlocks. You can just select to level up your first pick until you see another weapon you want. Very rarely do I not get a build I was going for. The only times it's somewhat difficult is if I am going for a evolution that requires an uncommon item. Slay the Spire has WAY more RNG than Vampire Survivors.
Uhm akchually you get random weapons and upgrades just like in every other roguelite, so it's a gacha
>there next to no RNG
That game is 100% RNG, from the drops to what abilities are presented to you when you have to pick them
How is having a limited choice of random weapons and buffs to choose from everytime you level up not RNG?
How are the fricking chests not RNG?
Because the gameplay isn’t RNG you dense Black person. Once you get some game knowledge and upgrades ground out every game is basically the same because you go for the same optimal build AND YOU CAN GET IT EVERY TIME. That’s not RNG any more than “the enemy dodged left instead of right” is.
Its RNG, no matter how you spin it its RNG, you don't get random drops in a shmup, you always have to pray to lady luck that you get that specific item in those trash roguelites.
>still seething that he can't autowin if he simply memorizes the whole level
Vampire Survivors is extremely generous about selection to the point the choices you choose from hardly matter upon leveling up. 90% of the time you can just level up your staring weapon until you come across a passive or another weapon you want. You have 6 weapons to plan out and six passives. All stages have passives and/or weapons in them that are constant depending on the stage. Vampire Survivors is about game knowledge, and once you know what to do, it's like what
described.
All games are about knowledge but some are especially about grinding and unlocking shit like the game you mentioned
Its a modern "AAA "game", enough said
I don't deny that. I am not saying Vampire Survivors is a good game. I just don't like homosexuals describing a game in a way that it isn't. We don't need more morons announcing the fact that they either don't play video games or are just bad at them.
isaac is like that which is why its only game I still play regularly
gambling is very fun so its good
I liked this game but after around 20 hours I figured out what the best weapons to go for are and that makes every run the same
The neat thing is that it also means I never wanna touch any other game in the genre again, it's a one-off
That's every arcade game. 20 hours would be like $50 of quarters at an arcade.
They're not supposed to be played for 1000s of hours like some grind.exe MMO.
Sure. I should have been clearer, the fact that I got 20 hours out of it was high praise, especially for its price.
>Anno Domini MMV
>Vampire Survivors is a hit game on the usual flash game sites, for free
>Anno Domini MMXXIV
>Vampire Survivors is $5 paid slop
you fricking hate to see it.
I would give you five dollars.
Why would anyone want to go back? People moved from arcade games because they were too primitive and newer games offered more. Nowadays you can choose whether you want to watch a movie game, or manage a %thing%, or command an army, or play another 2D platformer, or play another fighting game, or play another shmup, or play another tetris with gimmicks, or play another racing game, or play chess, or solve puzzles, or... the list goes on and on...
Shut up gachatard
I mean, you can be a poser as long and as much as you want, but the fact is that games of genres and styles from arcades are still being made and published to this day.
shut up!
old good, new bad!
I don't think "gameplay density" is a bad thing but obviously most people prefer there to be some fluff; emotional investment, novel ideas, exploration, etc.
As a stupid example rolling a D6 and winning if you get 6 is a really dense game. There is only gameplay. Every action you do or can conceivably do is mechanically engaging with the game. How nice.
>most people prefer there to be some fluff; emotional investment, novel ideas, exploration, etc.
Looks like that trend is dying.
Sony is dumb for not making multiplatform games. Nobody needs dedicated consoles anymore these days. A locked ecosystem by definition is moronic. Think about the Steam deck. it is an alternative to play on a PC. If sony games would work both on console and PC and never be exclusive and even publish on Xbox the consoles can provide a different service. They could just exist to keep your games in a sony library. And if you don't want that in a steam library.
We are running into the same dead end as with streaming services. There are too many alternatives to care paying for the least attractive one.
Tell that to Nintendo
The Souls series is actually one of the rare exceptions to the casualization of every genre, compared to some mainstream slop like Bethesda or Ubisoft games any Souls game is the most hardcore game on the planet. Yes you can grind in Souls but it barely even matters, what truly matters is skill.
>Tell that to Nintendo
I don't have to. Strictly speaking there is Palword and Pokemon for mobile. They will see what happens if they stay exclusive. Personally the market is so saturated that people don't care anymore what they play as long as there is 0 bullshit. But yeah, I'd tell that to Nintendo if I could curse in Japanese. Kusoge!
Nintendo has games that Steamies dream of everyday, now that Sony is maybe moving away from console development they will dominate that industry, its not like Microsoft consoles will suddenly become decent.
>A locked ecosystem by definition is moronic.
Yep, simple as. I'm 80% sure the reason why CAVE died is because they (or their investors) stubbornly decided to release their games only on Xbox 360, a console that was extremely unpopular in japan and only owned in the west by people who mainly play shooters and sports games.
They could've gotten a portion of the Touhou series' success if they made the effort of porting their shit on PC early on.
>why didn't this japanese company port their games to a platform where no one gives a frick about shmups and they only care about indieslop and working simulators?
Its a mystery
The indie scene in japan has tons of shmups, CAVE would've fared much better on PC rather than 360.
This is so odd when asians somehow side with a western platform. I think this story was a lot on Ganker when it happened. I feel some anon told me about it long ago.
I can only imagine corruption and "follow the money" which sucks in that case. They should not have to pick for 1 market only.
>image
based 2hu homosexual, I love you!
A dice simulator would be one of those games that you would probably mention that have "novel ideas", like
or most modern games full of RNG, the "innovative" part is how the gambling mechanics work.
And? The average fan of most awful genres like Battle Royale or roguelites are clueless people like yourself
Start by not playing modern games
How do you find good games? I want to have a fun gameplay, is this to much to ask?
I don't want to play slow boring timewaster games
Looks like I am sking for a miracle
Find some small youtube channel that shows off indie games. Just so you have a baseline of stuff that's already filtered out of the tons of shit releasing every day
Mostly play old games on consoles Ganker hates like genesis, saturn, turbo, ps1 and 2 and original xbox.
Just pick a combination of any of following 3 criteria:
1) platform
2) genre
3) decade
And just google reccomendations for those criteria. With at least two of those criteria (for example, "best 00's horror games" or "best PS1 JRPGs") it should be enough to get a decent list of games to check out without it being so overwhelming it becomes useless. Also, for all it's flaws, the old Ganker's reccomended games wiki is good for getting a general list of reccomendations for any given platform. Of course though, this method becomes less effective the more games you've played as you start to get the same shit you've already played reccomended to you over and over, when you get to that point you're pretty much on your own I guess.
>timewaster games
FUNFACT kid, all games are timewasters.
Time filling vs time waster. Contra couch co-op brought me closer to my brother, meanwhile I will never get the hour I wasted hoping Assassin’s Creed Greek Goat fricker would get better.
You could have used that time to go on a hike with your brother instead, and also improved your health, instead of lethargically sitting on your ass and decaying your vision with projected lights on a screen.
>Sun gives cancer AND makes you blind
>Better use
Nah plus he learned how to kill people this way.
>sun gives cancer
Sun gives Vitamin D, which improves your immune system, which can reduce your chances of cancer.
no Ca2+ resorption in muscle tissue and bones does not prevent cancer
You're objectively wrong, but continue thinking you're right anyway, I don't care.
shill study not from Nature or a real journal
>estimated
not proven
>or a real journal
It's the national library of medicine you fricking tard.
you didn't study it seems
Ncmbi just collects everything, you’ll find tons of anti-vax stuff in there. Doesn’t mean it is fact, it just means a student blew a professor to graduate.
>shill study not from Nature or a real journal
>says the moron using the webmd, the medical equivalent of wikipedia
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/vitamin-d-fact-sheet
NIH is state
now perma frick off megamoron
>UV exposure is the primary method of boosting serum vitamin D levels, which accounts for numerous health benefits. Higher levels of vitamin D are associated with protection against cancer development, including melanoma. Latitude, season, skin color, and sun protection determine UV absorption and vitamin D production
Cope and seethe, turd-worlder.
>is state
>uses a government website
What did he meme by this?
I've been playing the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection, many of the early classics running the arcade roms from back in the early 80s and 90s.
Holy shit, they are difficult. Especially the first SF. A nightmare of dropped inputs and input reading.
It's fun to get good at game, however the line between immense fun and pure frustration is very thin. I'm getting through them, learning the intricacies of the different characters and changes between releases, but they shouldn't be held up as some glowing standard of gaming, at least not the arcade modes. They were just blatantly designed to chew up kids entire allowances.
>zoomies are now pretending their games aren't RNGfests where skill barely even matters
The definition of fake gameplay
It's the dark souls generation, they need tricks, broken items, exploits, and cheese strats to beat their games, something that RNG upgrades in roguelites/roguelikes can provide, so then they can brag about how hardcore their game is while also claiming that they beat it easily.
Rent free
The soulsbabby cries out in pain when exposed.
>arcade games are easy :^|
>really? which ones have you cleared? 😮
> :^|
>YOU ARCADEBlack folk ARE SO FRICKING ANNOYING GO BACK TO PLAYING YOUR QUARTERMUNCHER SHIT ZGBVABEACILBEZFGHPJ >:^0
>that pic
wonderful
kek this Black person is really crying because he can't stop himself from getting every weapon he sees instead of waiting for the 2 guns
I don't really get vampire survivors. I assume there's harder modes and more things to be aware as you go on, but it took like 2 runs to find a decent array of stuff and now I don't even feel like I need more items. I can almost walk away from the game halfway through with what I can already get. I played it for like 2 hours and felt like I was thoroughly done.
Also the item balance is totally fricked. You can almost instantly tell which ones suck.
Its indieslop and a poor copy of Smash TV
Open Zone > Open World
I want handmade and curated spokes that link up with other spokes. I don't want vast worlds of nothingness and copy paste with combat encounters on a 5 minutes timer so I don't get bored enough to notice.
>Open Zone
based Sonic enjoyer
Shit forgot sonic coined that term. I was talking about Dark Souls, Kings Field, or EverQuest design.
Fairly sure Elden Ring invented it
There needs to be more games made with the scope of some older RPGs, something like Vampire: the Masquerade especially. Not a huge open area at all, but big enough that you have plenty of side content to do plus it always feels like the entire space is used for something, no useless empty areas.
How do you measure "density" in this regard?
Very carefully.
Meaningful actions per second
Friend of mine keeps telling me to play this game, says it's the greatest thing ever.
Is this really what it's like?
What other games has he played?
Anyway, it's ok. It's 70% story 30% mediocre combat just like all AAA shit
>Is this really what it's like?
No it's not, don't let cherrypicked webms created by bitter Gankerirgins fool you.
This is the worst looking shit I've ever seen. Off the wishlist it goes.
Shit wait wrong one, no wait please come back! AAAIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE
I'm going to have to have a long talk with my friend about his taste in video games.
There's nothing wrong with your friend's taste in vidya tho.
On a more serious note sometimes it's better to not talk about certain things if you don't want to lose friends, it would be smarter to slowly influence your friend into playing the games you want rather than exposing his poor taste.
I've known him since he was 8 and we're in our mid-30s now.
I don't think I'll lose his friendship over calling him out on his shit taste.
He's usually into strategy and 4X games, so GoW was already an odd recommendation from him.
It's kind of a phenomenon that when someone is only into one kind of thing that they might get easily mind blown by very entry level and average stuff from other genres. Console gamers playing bioshock effect, really.
Actually that makes a lot of sense. 4X games are slow as molasses and God of War is too. Maybe he just likes slow games.
If he only played computer games i would imagine why he would be impressed by any action game, even a shitty one.
Maybe you should ply it. Until then you can never understand what he's talking about. Playing games is the most important thing, even if Ganker avoids it at all costs.
This is true when you have no point of reference, but when you have played games similar to GoW or games that have the same over the shoulder camera then you can immediately tell when a game is shit or not, and regardless of its gameplay the sheer amount of cutscenes and forced walking sections/dialogues in GoW is enough to turn off most people with actual taste, not to mention its "puzzles".
Same people said the same thing about the PS2 games which are very fun, classically designed and consistently refresh themselves. Focusing on what you deem the worst parts of a game you've admit never played. The sad thing it's a video game board finding reason to not play a game.
>you can't say this game is a boring movie
I got better things to play
You shouldn't put in more quarters, even noticed that your score resets when you do? In a lot of them you also get more lives by playing better, everything in those games is developed that way to make you want to play the game more but in a honest way, not through gambling or other horseshit that is present in mobile titles.
>>I got better things to play
But not to talk about clearly.
Game? Pretty sure it's a movie. The only thing I heard about it is cool cinematics and how it's been shot with a single camera. Surely must be a movie.
Sounds like he has an absent father and porridge for brains.
Satisfying meaty combat with meaningful complexity, a good story well voice acted, plenty of interesting real mythology mixed in with nonsense mythology.
It's weak points are bad bosses ironically, not all of them but most are very simplistic more so than average enemy encounters where the combat actually shines. I also can't stand any "walking through a tight space sideways slowly" moments, but those are used to disguise loading screens and stuff like that mostly.
Overall very good and worth playing.
People who cannot spend 30 seconds walking especially when someone is talking to you about things that are actually relevant without being stimulated by flashing lights and colors are genuinely moronic
I’m sure you only watch old cinemax porn so you can get the full context as to why the lady is gargling semen at that moment.
I need a convoluted narrative to get off.
Emmanuel in Space 3D was pretty gripping.
button presses (other than movement)
Think about Chrono Trigger. Its a "long" RPG, but the story beats and settings and arcs just keep moving the whole time. You are never, ever stuck in one spot and waiting for things to happen. One story beat instantly goes onto the next, and you don't have to sit through more than 10 dialog boxes at any time to move the story to the next step. Even the dungeons are designed with no padding. You can argue that Magus' Lair and the Black Omen sections go on for much longer than other beats, but they are designed to be points of focus.
Nowadays you have to complete 15 hours of sidequests and listening to dialog just to leave Midgar.
I always wonder if the relative "long-winded-ness" of modern RPGs is just due to a changes in storytelling formulas, or if it’s something inherent to 3D.
It’s much easier to make a 2D space seem large without making the player have to trudge across long distances. Abstracting character interactions to "emotes" makes cutscenes much snappier, especially since everything can go at the speed of reading because there’s no damn voice acting.
Because Classic arcade games are 20min long and are built on repetition
BUT THE DENSITY!?!?
More gameplay is 20 minutes than 20 hours of AAA!
>and are built on repetition
So does every other game, the difference is the quality of that game, do you really believe that
is a better game than pretty much anything in the arcades? Its barely even a game to begin with.
>60 min of pure gameplay
bad
>15 hours of square,square,triangule with cutscenes in between
good now thats peak vydia
>square,square,triangule
lol. Why does this perfectly describe the "gameplay" of literally every single game made in the past 20 years?
Don't mind me, peak arcade gameplay coming through.
>for amusement only
As opposed to, what?
Betting
Freaky
I had no idea this was a thing, I swear some people are such gambling addicted morons.
People will bet on literally anything.
Yeah, I think israelites gaining dominion over white people is an inevitable occurrence.
To be fair, pinball definitely had its roots in gambling when the only method you had to control it was the plunge itself.
Protip: Pachinko is just old pinball
Yeah, gaming, down to it's earliest roots, always thread a fine line between amusement and gambling and many old gaming companies, especially in Japan, dabbled in both. I mean historically speaking it was normal that if grown men would waste time playing games they would do so for stakes, until recent times you never heard of anyone playing, say, a dice game purely for fun.
>both say betting
>08:11:40 timestamps
Betting.
People used to bet on where the pinball would go. Arcades had to put those stickers on to avoid getting shut down for running illegal casinos.
Still better than Suicide Squad
>Shallow as frick gameplay and every time you die you have to insert money
You should give mobile games a try, anon
Gameplay so shallow that even things like "game overs" exist and are a regular occurence, truly the deepest gameplay is when you can never reach a fail state and the game plays automatically for you.
I can program a game where you have to press 1 button and every time you press it there is a 50% chance to get a game over screen. Would that be deep gameplay?
Add betting to it and people will go nuts.
You already tried that shit last time, no videogame will ever be that simple aside from maybe some modern AAA titles where you press the forward button and win.
You are right, I also have to add a meaningless score number that goes up by 1 every time the game over screen is not triggered. Then it will truly be like a classic arcade game.
You are so mad bro
Or he could just pretend that he played it, you know watch it on Youtube and you'll miss nothing since its a moviegame
>Or he could just pretend that he played it, you know watch it on Youtube and you'll miss nothing since its a moviegame
Avoiding playing games is the cancer that killed Ganker, and it's a sign of arrested development in its posters.
No games is better than bad games.
Nope, you'd probably have a great time with dad of boy.
Which games exactly have caused you to become like this?
Mobile games are the opposite of arcade games, they are all about persistence and grinding stats. Arcade games are about you as a player getting better, almost exclusively.
Most arcade games you just put another quarter in and get more lives
Sounds like a good way to lose money really fast. Ideally the best way to play is to start from the beginning each time so you get more play time each time as you get better (AKA, how basically every Japanese gamer played arcade games). Dumping quarters in to credit feed to the end is a western thing.
Also virtually all arcade games, if you use the continue feature, either wipe your score or mark your score with how many continues you used (mark of shame). Games like Metal Slug don't wipe your score but your score will be dogshit if you use it because of mechanics like the POW bonus.
For me it’s console ports of arcade games with additional content like modes, stages, arrange etc
Do you look like this, OP?
I look like this and say this
I agree with 70% of this man's points which is not bad considering but I cannot bring myself to actuallty watch his vids. Gotta tab out and play something, have him in the background, I just cannot stand that shit-eating, contemptible, screen punchworthy permasmirk he has, it drives me berserk.
Why would you miss out on his soulful 2008 video editing skills?
Diamond Is Unbreakable is where JoJo became unwatchable trash.
Battle Tendency is the only thing before Diamond is Unbreakable that's worth watching, you contrarian moron.
All three parts before 4 were great. Everything after Stardust Crusaders is utter fricking garbage. Anyone who is even remotely honest with themselves can admit to this.
None of David Production's cheapo slideshow is worth watching, and Diamond, while still really good, is where Araki's anno homosexual habits really start manifesting. By the end of Part 5 and most of Part 6 it is fully unreadable.
have a nice day hamonshitter
cope nujojo troony
>battle garegga x berserk shirt
Good shit.
frick's he wearing?
A poncho, it was during his MGR review.
>have him in the background
Kek. He's you isn't it?
I don't think anyone ITT knows what the word "dense" means.
Ever watch Evangelion? That's anime density.
moron gamers want 100 hours of filler copy and paste dogshit so it's """""worth it"""""
homie arcade games are like an hour long tops
They better be gameplay dense
>he doesn’t have a dedicated emulation or batocera PC complete with a curated MAME or FBNeo rom collection, additionally containing curated roms through 6th generation at a minimum including arcade to console ports, and doesn’t have this rom collection backed up on a NAS
yeah instead I just ask my autistic friend who does do those things for the roms
But we just did last week?
What's the last Nintendo game with some decent amount of challenge?
Even console games back then were short to be quite honest, its only since the 5th gen that games got a lot longer and so it makes a lot of people assume that its money that is spent better, in these days the opposite is slowly happening, people are getting tired of longer games and want shorter, more focused experienced.
>want shorter, more focused experienced.
that's a million miles away from a 40 minute arcade game where you replay the first level 80 times.
>people are getting tired of longer games and want shorter, more focused experienced.
Why are you morons so detached from reality.
I should have said that SOME people are getting tired of longer games, of course sloppers will keep playing slop and never ask questions
this is kind of the core of the issue I think. you really can't do a game like donkey kong 94 in the arcades. it's just a bit too slow paced, there isn't quite enough hazards that would immediately kill you. arcade games allow no room for playful interaction, they need to have a constant fail state check.
I think the remake's Time Attack mode does a decent enough job at applying a fast-paced arcade experience to the game. You're short on time and dying is an instant fail that makes you redo the whole thing unlike in the regular game where the second screen is a checkpoint.
I feel like people who look back fondly on the amusement arcade model were just spoiled rich kids. Any child who got a couple of goes max was acutely aware of how bullshit and greedy these games were.
Why do arcade games and saying you didn't beat a game if you used save states make Ganker seethe so much?
you have a really confrontational attitude and are handwaving many different types of games people enjoy.
I'm not hand waving any games, you constantly get the same arguments against arcade games when they span many genres, pioneered many (especially due to the eras more powerful hardware), and aren't exactly mindless as people assert they are (if they were mindless then you wouldn't need to figure out mechanics, level, and enemy design to get over tough sections of a game).
>because you are rude!!!!
Kek, literally
in display.
>INSERT COIN TO CONTINUE
Awww, you're sweet.
>state 0 loaded
Hello, human recourses?!
>INSERT COIN TO CONTINUE
not cheating
>state 0 loaded
cheating
>it's only bad when poor people do it
hmm sounds like socialism
>credit feeding
>state 0 loaded
NOOOOOOO YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE SAVE STATES FOR STAGE PRACTICE!!!!!!!!
>F6, proceed to play like a moron, F7 if something goes wrong
b-b-based?! 0w0
games with quick save/load still have people calling savescumming you absolute moron
Yes, you didn't beat the game.
Because pumping quarters, using nintendo power, game genie, nintendo hotline, The Wizard and you're older brother and uncle who works at nintendo for help while saying 'you didn't beat the game' is silly.
>But MUH DENSHITY
You sound like a fricking manchild, pretentious sperg who thinks density can only be found if it comes in short bursts and instant doses without any build up or surrounding elements to it. Games stopped being for underdeveloped, defective manchildren who want nothing but the equivalent of eating only candy long ago.
>any build up
You mean a story? Just watch a movie
>Games stopped being for underdeveloped, defective manchildren who want nothing but the equivalent of eating only candy long ago
Are you sure?
Arcade games are still being produced, they're just called mobile games now.
Couldn't be more different, especially their overall quality
OT: Guys, anyone here who has a friend who works at dice?
REMINDER
damn didn't realize he'd been based for that long
Copypasting the same things 400 times on a bland Ubislop map is way cheaper than actually making a good game. Diversity hires can also keep up this way. Barely.
Arcade styles game like shmups, beat em ups, and fighting games still exist. There are also rogue lites such as Nuclear Throne or Downwell which have a very arcade-y feel to them.
Here is your "gameplay-dense" game, it's 10 minutes long.
Now post your clear of it shitter
Post your clear of any modern AAA "slop" first.
%3D%3D
Women and journalists can easily beat any AAA games, they're not in any way comparable to arcade games which take some actual skill and dedication, now post that Contra clear, it's 10 minutes long.
I play both, and there are basically no AAA games that are even remotely as hard as older games
Some of the harder AAA games (excluding indies) I've done in no order are
>TEW on Akumu
>Vanquish on Godhard + Tac Challenges
>God of War 1-3 - hardest difficulties
>DMC3+4 -DMD S-ranks and Bloody Palace
>NG1+2 on MNM
>MGRR - Revengeance S-ranks
>Max Payne 3 - NYMH
>TLoU on Grounded
>GTAO - all CMMs
>Catherine - Babel + all gold on Hard
>Dead Space 1+2 - hardest difficulties + Hardcore
>Bioshock 1+2 - Survivor no vita chambers
>Killzone 2 - Elite
>Bamham AA+AC - all medals in Combat Challenges
>Uncharted 1-4 on Crushing
>RE4+5 on Professional
>CoD1+2+WaW+MW2+MW3+BO+BO2 on Veteran
>all the Soulsborne games (no challenge runs but I do want to do some in the future)
That's why speedrunning is so popular; it is the only way to get any challenge out of modern games, but literally anything would be difficult when you are trying to do it as efficiently as humanly possible.
Name some of those incredibly hard older games.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VpeBQXbbjXHo5XeXRZ1wA2skRDzjuZhc-MbEpelu0yQ
Here is a good reference. Basically anything on here that is marked low/med difficulty or higher is harder than vast majority of AAA games. And this is only just a small sample.
Good shit.
>intense gameplay that requires lots of meaningful decision making condensed into a short timeframe without any padding
Yes anon, that's a gameplay-dense game, what was your point exactly?
>intense gameplay that requires lots of meaningful decision
-mash fire like a maniac because there's zero decision making involved in when you should shoot, the action itself may as well require no input from the player
-most enemies are worthless filler that pose 0 threat unless you happen to be near the edge where they spawn and they kill you without you having a chance to react
-bosses can't kill you once you seem them attack once because their attacks just hit the same spot over and over; the few attacks that actually track you can be destroyed by your own projectiles so their a non-threat as well
Yeah, they do, unless the game happens to have some complex physics system which you can mess around with and none of those games have that.
>Most enemies are worthless filler
Every enemy is dangerous at 1 hit kill. You have to be situationally aware or you can easily be taken by surprise from a stray bullet or a runner from a different direction. To beat in 10 is incredibly impressive because even memorization can’t be enough.
>Bosses have patterns and test your understanding of mechanics
Modern games don’t even have bosses, they have cutscenes.
>Every enemy is dangerous at 1 hit kill
Yeah, if you're asleep. 95% of the shit in this game has 0 chance of hitting you once you've seen it once.
>Modern games don’t even have bosses, they have cutscenes.
And we're going back to completely making up shit now.
Name one fricking AAA game you've beaten recently.
And Arcade games making you insert a quarter after you get hit once doesn't mean they have depth either.
Name one pinball game you've reached the wizard mode of
Name one AAA game you've beaten on the hardest difficulty.
I'll give you several:
Elden Ring
GoW Ragnarok
Jedi Survivor
Remnant 2
RE4 Remake
And I'm pretty FF7 Rebirth will have some too
Here's an epic Contra boss to compare:
?t=528
So you've never played one. Gotcha.
>ER and Jedi
Des clones from 2009 not modern, both beatable if you face frick and roll for iframes. Rest is all hidden by bloat. If you die it is because of not grinding gear. Still only three buttons required at most. No different from Contra. Likewise, environment can only kill you if you are asleep.
>RE4
2004 is not modern RERE4 equally has boss patterns no different from contra. Only extra layer is bullets run out of ammo.
>GoW
Completely scripted, can’t lose. Extra soilent with your sneed oil covered popcorn.
Just post your clears or shut the frick up
I'll post them when you post your GoW 2018 Sigrun clear.
That arcade games don't have any more depth than your average modern game.
I've also played both and pretending Contra is some hardcore shit that only real boomer gamers can beat is laughable.
Still waiting on that 10 minute clear with time stamp and breasts
You both sound like moronic poser homosexuals. Contra is one of the easiest arcade games out there. Elden Ring (and Souls in general) are some of the few AAA games that are actually deep and challenging. And GoW 2018 is absolute pozzed shallow garbage so there is no reason for anyone to even touch that on any difficulty.
You're going to be waiting until I see that 5 minute GoW 2018 fight I asked for.
Well then we both need to shut the frick up because I’m not touching zoomer movie trash and you are too afraid to face boomer glory.
>that arcade games don’t have anymore depth
OP’s pic isn’t arguing that you fricking dunce. It is arguing that arcade games don’t waster your fricking time. All killer no filler. You don’t have to unlock your tool kit, the levels are designed to always be engaging, the down time to rest/reset after a challenge is there with either a short score screen or a small and still skippable cutscene. ER/BOTW/GTA/Ubi shit is 99% down time/time wasting. There is a fine line between Super Metroid exploration to build your arsenal and “bean counters want engagement of x hours, spread the important parts further apart, place more small enemy encampments that only waste resources”.
Maybe video games aren't for you
They were for me then they changed it around 2008 to suit people too stupid to breath through their nose instead of their mouth.
You clearly haven’t played contra and name one modern game with a boss fight. I’ll wait.
>name one modern game with a boss fight
Final Fantasy 13
>2009
>2009 jrpg
>modern
jesus fricking christ has it really been that long
Yup. Each day we stray further from god
Don't most games still have boss fights?
Of course they do.
Even frickin' moviegames usually manage to contrive some setpiece encounters that serve as bosses. Even if they usually have about the same game plan as Quake's Chthon.
Really? Name a modern AAA boss that's just running around in a circle while stepping on 3 pressure pads.
So you haven't played a single one and you're just making shit up that fits your narrative, just as expected.
Works both ways arcade hater. And I have played them. Trying to shit on Contra with From/From clones is like trying to put out a grease fire with water.
No
>And Arcade games making you insert a quarter after you get hit once doesn't mean they have depth either.
Yeah it's called being a bad at video games.
>Completely ignoring the point to say "lol git gud"
moron
What point?
nu-GoW having RPG stats and various special attacks with cooldowns does not give it depth.
man that perspective change between level 1 and 2 was the wildest shit back in the 80s.
Online multiplayer games still have high density gameplay (FPSs, ASShomosexualSs, fighting games, etc).
RE4 was the perfect middle ground between arcadey and modern.
>arcade is just the exact same thing repeated over and over with no variation or interesting patterns
yep
I prefer my games as dense as Bose Einstein condensate
?t=3
Lel
Step aside.
You didn't fully convey the essence of AAA gaming.
kek
Arcade is not about the machine itself, it's about the design philosophy.
I agree Palworldbro.
NO AAA Game Dev here?
because arcade games were designed to steal your coins and therefore bad.
>everything not arcade is AAA slop
haven't updated my filters in a long time, thanks for the reminder
It was fun to spend with your friends an hour playing arcades but why is Ganker just now pretending its peak gameplay?
tards from /vg/-/vr/ regurgitating the opinion of their circlejerk-approved wannabe e-celeb, just ignore them
I was wondering what would happen to the sycophantic MathewMatosis fans now that he's retired, the answer is move on to parroting Mark at every moment of every day.
Mark actually has clears, Matthew is just a poser
All the more reason for the same NPCs to worship him and never think for themselves.
>Elden Ring (and Souls in general) are some of the few AAA games that are actually deep and ch-AAAIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>one guy is skilled enough that he can solo the hardest boss in the game with no armor
sounds based to me
I guarantee that 99% of anons larping as hardcore boomers in this thread are actually 13 year olds.
Current 13 year olds don't know how use emulators and where to download ROMs.
>Play video game
>Like video game
>Obligated to post about it on shitty site
>Play video game
>Dislike video game
>Obligated to post about it on shitty site
You never had a choice.
Too right, they should be excruciatingly apathetic about everything like us.
This concept of "gameplay density" is stupid.
For example, racing simulators have moments where the "gameplay density" is considered low, because after a lot of practice, you start to drive naturally, without making conscious decisions. But there are times when you have to make a series of decisions, for example in the race for positions, and now the "gameplay density" is high. What does that mean? Nothing, really, it's just a banal description of what's going on and trying to classify entire games based on this is the stuff of pseuds who want to create deep conclusions about trivial things.
doesn't change the fact that AAA = movies. stop defending cancer
AAA games are bad for other reasons.
"Gameplay density" is not a metric of how good or bad a game is.
you do make plenty of decisions in a racing game if you're trying to improve your runs more & more, dummy.
>This is dense gameplay
Yes.
Just play phone games like subway surfers and other infinite runners that are desinged to milk 99c out of you for every attempt. "Classic Arcade" was built with the same intentions in mind.
Perturbed Pedro convinced everyone that a polished, tailored, hand crafted gaming experience is not worth their money. Now everything is a 200 hour long open world slog. At least you got a good "Price to dollar ratio" though, right?
The four hour long cinematic goyslop from the 360 era was bad too.
Arcades are mobile games.
>Density of Gameplay
This doesn't actually mean anything.
You're just claiming different games have a different value of some subjective measurement
>This doesn't actually mean anything.
Yes it means how many meaningful interractions and decisions you make while playing, when watching cutscenes you are not actively playing the game nor engaged by its gameplay, when thinking about what move to make in a turn based game you may not be actively playing but you are still engaged with the game.
so many Ganker posters think they're hot shit veteran gamers & "sees through the bullshit" yet so many got psyopped into hating arcade design & thinking console & PC design is inherently superior cuz of game journos who wanted to shill the latest hardware & treat games as technical showcases. one thing about arcades was that shit didn't matter, console warring didn't matter, "generations" didn't matter; just if the individual games were good. the large scale corporate "gaming events" that define modern video game culture weren't anywhere near as prominent. in meme terms home releases & consoles foster far more of a "consoomer" mentality.
>butbut arcade games STEAL YOUR FREAKING MONEY
do you think the home game market is less money-grabbing? that the evil exploitative arcade market was replaced with the PC & console market cuz the latter was just immensely fairer & nicer for some reason? home releases could have insane prices back then when adjusted for inflation & these days things are getting just as bad, with 70bux being the default price for a new "AAA" game. to try a game had to rent it first (way more than a quarter). meanwhile with arcades you could just try a game out for a quarter or two then move on if you didn't like it. if you found something good and were willing to dedicate yourself to getting better at it you could get a ton of gameplay out of it; more and more with each quarter as you learned the mechanics & levels. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ARCADE DESIGN AND PAY2WIN.
density means how often you're actually engaging with the mechanics and not either watching cutscenes, walking around with zero challenge or repeating the same tasks with the same level of challenge. modern games are full of that shit
PC gamers cry when a game doesn't let you quicksave anywhere you want. meanwhile even console gamers look down on people who savescum.
>PC gamers cry when a game doesn't let you quicksave anywhere you want
Because checkpoint systems are time-wasting mechanics designed to elongate short games.
d.com/beauty/sun-exposure-skin-cancer
Not so fast sun Black person. You won’t get me. You shine so bright even your post requires spf 120.
no they're not moron it means you need to improve your run of a level and tackle every challenge head-on. do you seriously think a player who "finishes" Contra or Metal Slug normally isn't massively more skilled than someone who savescums through them?
Skills only matter when you're building a house. Video games require no skills because they are vapid entertainment. Get a clue you fricking loser.
Any good game requires skill. People talk more about card based gambling games and strategies moreso than ones of pure luck.
>video games require no skills
only if you play movie shit for people who hate video games and gay shit like minecrap
They hated him because he told the truth.
>enjoyed instead of enjoyer
ESL cannot meme
XOIXISTERS, OUR RESPONSE?
>disprove someone with his own source
>ignores it because dunning-kruger prevents him from seeing he is wrong
>continues to cite is already disproven outdated study actual randomized clinical trials destroyed
lol, there is no cure for being a megamoron
>with his own source
You didn't, but keep thinking you did, "megamoron".
>being designed for short bursts means the games needed to constantly up the difficulty and keep the player engaged while not getting too hard or cheap to make sure they came back.
Completely made-up mental gymnastics that does not translate into reality. What we actually saw with arcades was them becoming harder as time progressed, to the point in the 90's where they were so unforgiving and so blatant in their money-grabbing techniques, that people simply stopped playing them. In theory that works, in practice it doesn't.
>meanwhile with games you buy & own you don't have to keep the player constantly engaged which means you get to add bullshit filler, repetitive tasks, long stretches with no real gameplay etc vs the constant forward momentum & increasing difficulty that defined arcade games.
Except you just insulted your own genre you're trying to defend. Because of the simplicity of arcade games, you are FORCED to constantly re-use repetitive gameplay methods, which could equate to "bullshit filler", while with platform games, you have more development time, more money, and a larger more advanced control scheme to work with. It's why you have never seen an arcade game with controls like pic related.
>except people who weren't stupid with their money would try to get as much gameplay as they could out of a single coin.
Excuses the argument by using ad hominem. So, not an argument.
>the games specifically encouraged getting as much out of a single coin as you could through their scoring
No, they were designed to get you to pump as many quarters into them as possible. They were designed to consistently keep making money. It's why Billy Mitchell, the man who's claim to fame is having a perfect score in Pac-Man, essentially could only achieve it through cheating.
>What we actually saw with arcades was them becoming harder as time progressed, to the point in the 90's where they were so unforgiving and so blatant in their money-grabbing techniques, that people simply stopped playing them
not really. Some games got more difficult to match the increasing skill level of the playerbase, but as a whole arcade games became more accessible and less punishing in the 90s. Even the more difficult games had harder level design and bosses, but were less punishing in the sense that you had to beat the game in one life. This is completely unrelated to arcades dying out though.
>you have more development time, more money, and a larger more advanced control scheme to work with
None of these are true except the last one. Arcade games were the premium entertainment medium with the largest budgets and best tech. Arcades had less control inputs (movement and 2-4 buttons in most cases), but they were also meant to be pick up and play, with a focused experience with little filler. It was about having a very tight and concise gameplay loop with a high degree of challenge and depth within that movement + 2-4 buttons moveset. You are comparing that to a slow-paced simulation game where every tiny little thing you can do has its own button. It's like comparing a cross section of the ocean to a wide puddle.
that's a slow-paced cinematic action game. The physics and hit reactions are impressive, but there isn't much depth or challenge to the actual gameplay.
Donkey Kong alone is more complex than 99% of AAA games kek
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lPdtKh8KFqWSmL-YTZ2qpHD9HkQbjLQw-Km0VvBNbBA
stupid fricking zoomer.
>Completely made-up mental gymnastics that does not translate into reality. What we actually saw with arcades was them becoming harder as time progressed, to the point in the 90's where they were so unforgiving and so blatant in their money-grabbing techniques, that people simply stopped playing them. In theory that works, in practice it doesn't.
this is just complete baseless bullshit outside of bullet hell shmups. compare Final Fight to later Capcom & Konami beat-em-ups to Dynamite Cop lol
>Except you just insulted your own genre you're trying to defend. Because of the simplicity of arcade games, you are FORCED to constantly re-use repetitive gameplay methods, which could equate to "bullshit filler",
again, this is about mastery. in a truly great arcade game you can always experiment with new approaches and/or get closer & closer to a perfect run even if you're redoing the same stage over and over. if your best approach is the "Simon Says" one then it's not a good arcade game. play better games!
>Excuses the argument by using ad hominem. So, not an argument.
lol what is this ben shapiro debate nerd shit dude? I'm saying that coin-spamming was a waste of money because it was. you got less gameplay time out of it and less mechanical mastery.
>No, they were designed to get you to pump as many quarters into them as possible. They were designed to consistently keep making money. It's why Billy Mitchell, the man who's claim to fame is having a perfect score in Pac-Man, essentially could only achieve it through cheating.
dude come on lol even Karl Jobst reached the kill screen in Donkey Kong and he's not even an arcade gamer. you're talking out of your ass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-L2Bj1YnJM
>here's my very autistic nerdy wall-of-text defense of old PC games versus arcade games. bet you feel silly now!
>NOOO YOU CAN'T OFFER AN EVEN MORE AUTISTIC DEBUNKING OF MY DEBUNKING WTF YOU LOSER WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT VIDEO GAMES SO MUCH GET A LIFE
He's not going to reply to any of your posts he's just stalling and spamming to get the thread to autosage faster.
Kek, literally the Ganker equivalent of credit feeding.
Yes high density of gameplay doesn't automatically mean good game, that's what we're trying to explain to the morons who keep getting accidentally baited by that picture.
>the generation that grew up with all the good shit hated it
>the generation that grew up with dogshit want arcade games back
you cannot make this shit up
we live in a cursed time line
>the generation that grew up with all the good shit hated it
Says fricking who?
every millennial in existence except for the 2 contrarians of that gen
I'm -10 years away from being 30 and the
video landscape will not change for us to remember how new games are made. It startswith an open world title and slowly becomes democracy and then you can't stop playing it.
Total Boomer Death. I can’t believe there are autistic gen Xers who actually think Double Dragons is more complex than building in Fortnite at a pro level.
This isn’t about multiplayer babysitting games. If anything, it is pro that.
I feel like "Gameplay Density" is a decent enough term, but it isn't necessarily better to have more of it, it really more or less just depends on the genre.
I wish more people understood that though, since the quality of a game is often based on hours/ dollar ratio instead of overall quality.
I feel like this is going to force genres with high "density" (platformers, action games) into taking on more and more RPG mechanics until they're unrecognizable.
I think RPGs are better with more gameplay density and less immersion too but telling the average RPG player what my favorite Japanese RPGs are makes me look like a crazy person
I do like "movie/book-like games" too (lately I've enjoyed returning to a few of the aforementioned point & click adventure games & Shenmue) but few of them are interesting enough to beat watching or reading something and I wouldn't say they're superior to a nonstop action game
again, turning into an IGN guy who wants From Software games to have an easy mode when someone likes slightly harder games than you.
Because IQs dropped sharply since back then.
Great thread, was a lot of fun.