people stopped biting poopy lord bait so there was nothing to actually discuss
much like the 4e threads die because 2hu just infodumps and nobody will read all that shit
It is a nearly decade old rules lite game with a decent early support that died off completely the moment the sequel was announced. People still play it, but its not hot shit anymore. More like a coprolith.
It happens. The general will probably be back when SotWW is out. Things were just a bit slow for a while.
>rules lite game
It's not rules lite
>decent early support that died off completely the moment the sequel was announced
It got years and years of support, and just started two full length campaign releases.
> it’s not the dizzying sprawl of 3.5
3.5 was crunchy but in no way a "dizzying sprawl" unless you used a stupid amount of splats all at once. On the contrary the d20 system centralized a lot of rules which resulted in a reasonable streamlining of 2e. >Play more games.
You should follow your own advice.
Btw "rules lite" is not a value judgement. Just sayin'.
Of course it's not a value judgement. No one is saying you're wrong because they think you hate the game. They're saying you're wrong because it's not a rules lite game. What a weird thing to decide to troll about.
Most RPGs die within one or two years. The exceptions tend to be artificially propped up, maintained at cost rather than via profits, in the vain hope that the game will eventually "catch on" by duping enough people into thinking it's a living, breathing system and not just a corpse strung up like a marionette.
Interest in a system dying off is the natural state of things. Most games see their highest sales for only a month or two at most, right at the beginning, and then the rest of their lifespan is just the game withering away.
If you mean the general, shitposting (lol) made the game not really worth discussing here. If you mean in general, I'd say it's doing/done alright for a game that isn't DnD, Warhammer, WoD, CoC or Pathfinder, but there's people out there just waiting for the sequel. Plus, memes aside, the setting really is a turn off for a lot of people.
I ran it for a short while before ending the campaign because of IRL issues. The biggest drawback to me and the reason I'm really reluctant to run it again is that it's somewhat niche and has no fricking SRD or free version. This means it has dick in the way of VTT support besides the character sheet existing, and my group plays online. Not sure I would have run it at all if the general didn't teach me how to download jsons of the bestiary and use 3rd party tools to upload monster sheets straight to roll20.
Probably because there's barely any major new content for it since the creator has been focused on Weird Wizard for the past few years, I still run games of it though and probably won't switch to WW.
I don't even use most of the official creatures outside of the pre-revised generic summoned creatures. Then again, I've always preferred homebrewing.
[...]
This. Say what you will about Paizo, but Pathfinder 2e is getting lots of new decent-quality content. Shadow of the Shitlord isn't.
Most RPGs die within one or two years. The exceptions tend to be artificially propped up, maintained at cost rather than via profits, in the vain hope that the game will eventually "catch on" by duping enough people into thinking it's a living, breathing system and not just a corpse strung up like a marionette.
Interest in a system dying off is the natural state of things. Most games see their highest sales for only a month or two at most, right at the beginning, and then the rest of their lifespan is just the game withering away.
I'm not sure why I'd want a game to continue getting support forever. Even the things I like the most can't be enjoyed ad infinitum.
I did like to homebrew stuff, but having official stat sheets is useful because A) It's useful to have a base/template when homebrewing and B) (probably more importantly) it's extremely useful to just be able to throw in a bandit, or a bear, or a generic pickpocket or any other npcs that might be important enough to warrant a stat block but isn't important enough to warrant spending time making one from scratch.
Probably because there's barely any major new content for it since the creator has been focused on Weird Wizard for the past few years, I still run games of it though and probably won't switch to WW.
I don't even use most of the official creatures outside of the pre-revised generic summoned creatures. Then again, I've always preferred homebrewing.
This. Say what you will about Paizo, but Pathfinder 2e is getting lots of new decent-quality content. Shadow of the Shitlord isn't.
Also Paizo's content is consistently of a higher quality than D&D 5e's. I mean, I know that's a bar so low it's practically touching the ground already, but still...
that's my n1 problem with paizo. They are always just a tad bit better than the competition. The same thing was all i heard during the pf 1e days. >But anon pf is better than 3.5 and 4e
Still not good enough to convince me to play otherdnd
Do you complain when you go to a better doctor, eat better food, watch a better movie, drive a car with better performance? It's a pretty weird problem to complain because something is better unless you can't have it too, but you can have it even if you don't want it.
1. People waiting for weird wizard
2. There's not much to discuss about save jesting about the poop, it's a solid game that does what is written on the tin can with enough content for years of games.
> it's a solid game that does what is written on the tin can with enough content for years of games.
Honestly, this is probably a large part of it. You look at conversations around D&D and its ilk and about video games, and the conversations are so often about modifying the base game or tweaking it or adapting it and so on. The Demon Lord Engine doesn’t seem have a terribly active homebrew scene—because people don’t feel as much of a need for one—so the only real conversation left is talking about your campaigns…which people are, for whatever reason, typically less invested in.
>which people are, for whatever reason, typically less invested in.
I generally like hearing campaign stories, but it's a hard sell to get strangers on the internet to care about you and your buddies having a good time, and then even if you do enjoy that sort of thing it's not very conducive to discussion.
It's more that nobody has interest. No matter how "perfect" or "complete" a game is, people with any amount of creativity will always want to modify or tweak it, and sotdl is neither perfect nor complete anyways. So if nobody is making interesting stuff, it means nobody interesting likes it.
I dunno. I still enjoy it plenty actually. It's a pretty fun system with more options than 5e for me that's lighter and somewhat less heroic than pathfinder 2e.
Nah, it's not just SotDL in a new coat of paint, it's a whole new game. It's using the same engine and so offers the same core rules and resolution systems from SotDL, along with its Path based progression and focus on more manageable campaign lengths. But it also has a lot of changes to those core systems both because it's a different game doing things for its own sake, and because SotDL is an 8 year old game and he's learned a lot. So even within the core rules it's not the same game. Stats work a little differently; there is a new type of roll; every modifier like obfuscation, cover, light, afflictions work differently; it doesn't have mechanics like insanity, madness, or corruption; the core action list is different; reactions are a bigger deal now; and a few other bits
But then changes to the structures of ancestries, paths, traditions, monsters, and equipment means that there isn't a single thing in the game that is the same as in SotDL. Even accounting for Paths that are called the same thing and filling the same niche in the set. The level distribution on Paths have changed so that Expert and Master paths get an extra level. Spells aren't tiered by rank, but by tier, and each Tradition has a talent pool that replaces what would be Rank 0 spells. It's just a very different game over all. The comment you replied to has a link with a lot more info if you want it.
Tonally the game says this about it "Shadow of the Weird Wizard sheds much of the bleakness and foulness of Shadow of the Demon Lord to offer a game suitable for just about anyone. In this game, you play heroes who struggle to help those in need against the sickness, despair, and corruption found in the world. While you can make the game more gruesome if you wish, the intent is for you and your friends to do good deeds and feel great about doing them"
My one issue with making the switch to WW right away is that DL had such a massive swathe of supplements, stuff like Godless that accommodated Mad Max-type vehicle combat and firearms. I feel like WW will appear comparatively barebones off the bat and would probably wait for a few more releases to take a dive.
That's a "problem" with any new game really. And I say "problem" because I'm not really sure it ever is one. SotDL and SotWW are pretty different games all in all and there is so much new stuff in it that you'd not be able to get through half of it before new books are out. Sure, it's not going to do Mad Max for you but SotDL doesn't do SotWW's style of fantasy all that well either. And it's not really as if you can use all of SotDL's content at once either. So while you can do a lot more with SotDL in general right now any single campaign of SotDL is going to be closer to any other single campaign of SotDL than that single campaign is to a campaign of SotWW. Godless withstanding.
Some one else put the Table of Contents here if you want to see all the first book has
Speaking of SotWW the editor dropped a preview of the TOC last week if people want to know exactly what's in the first book
. That's just the player side of things and it's the same size as SotDL's entire core book. There is a lot of stuff in that book to play with and the GM book is a similar size. Which makes that 2-3 times bigger than SotDL's core GM stuff. Loads of stuff off the bat for this.
Picrel helps showcase how different the content between the games is too. It's also just concept differences there too. All the Paths are mechanically unique in SotDL even if they share a concept and name. Sometimes those mechanics are pretty close but most of the time they're leveraging the unique parts of SotWW. So there aren't many repeats to my mind.
>Spells aren't tiered by rank, but by tier
Wow. That probably means something.
As other anon said, it's Path Tiers. So Novice/Expert/Master spells instead of Rank 0-10 spells.
Huh, that soon? I thought it wasn't til August.
That's the estimate for print copies but Schwalb always manages to undershoot those estimates by a good bit.
Because they're making a game for their setting, not yours.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It’s a pretty strong disincentive to switch systems knowing that you’re going to have to rewrite twenty-three Master Paths.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That sucks for you but entirely ditching the core setting isn't the norm. You can just not use those Paths if you don't want them in your setting, or not play SotWW at all if it's going to be a pain.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>You can just not use those Paths
It's literally ALL the Paths of the Gods.
Because it is more convenient for brainlets who don't have their own settings as well as introducing people (GMs included) to a new game by already having a fully-fleshed out setting and not screwing them over by saying "ok now make the entirety of the Hindu religion real quick so you can do a one-session game with that crossdresser you picked up at the flgs"
As has been said, most people generally don't fully build their own setting and not providing a setting basically means you're not providing a full game. You need a setting to play the game in and its only really generic rulesets that can get away from not doing it these days. But more than that the setting informs the game, and the game informs the setting in turn. If you want the game to be about an experience it needs to be well suited to doing that and a setting helps that happen. This is a game where gods are real and felt forces in the world, so there are gods in the setting, and the gods in the setting are then reflected in Paths, which then impacts the setting by having mortal avatars of divinity about. A setting is just a good thing to have to make an interesting game. If you don't want to use that setting then that will obviously entail changing the game if you move away from the assumptions mechanics are derived from. No game with a setting should be at its best in another setting. It might be something an individual table likes more but if the mechanics are a suitable abstraction of the narrative then the setting should vitally inform the mechanics.
I normally don't like things too heavily tied to a specific setting, but c'mon anon. Those all read like generic god domains you find in every fantasy pantheon. Complaining about that would be like going "ugh fighters were renamed as Holy Knights. That name is too setting specific, literally unusable"
I do. And I can probably guess what it means. It won't make the wording any less stupid especially considering that "tier" as a keyword isn't something that really appears in the DL books.
Anything made as "reaction" or "correction" to something are steeped in ressentiment rather than creativity. 4e and 13th age were meant to "correct" Dungeons and Dragons, just as SotDL was meant to "correct" 5e. There isn't any heart beyond knee-jerk, microscopic fixes that ignore the essence of what people find appealing.
>Contemplate on this: people hate vanilla Skyrim but love Skyrim with mods.
You're moronic, people love vanilla Skyrim and that's why they mod it. They aren't angry and seeking correction, they're already happy and seeking to extend that enjoyment.
This is also why Morrowind has a gigantic modding scene (For its playerbase), why New Vegas does, and why Oblivion, Fallout 4/3, and Starfield are varying levels of barren wastelands.
>Starfield nowhere to be found
Kek, good job at proving his point moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Starfield doesn't even have a creation kit, moron, and it still has 6.8k mods.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Cope.
3 months ago
Anonymous
No, you cope. One of the biggest early Morrowind mods was made by someone who's known for hating the vanilla game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You are coping,
Coping and seething,
You just can't accept what you're seeing,
Yes, you're coping,
Coping and seething!
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, who would've guessed that the newest game with no creation kit would have the least mods. He also disproved it by showing that fallout 4 is right behind Skyrim so what's your point?
>microscopic fixes
Resolution's different, all of spellcasting is different, races and racial stats are extremely different, class system is extremely different, weapons and armour work very differently, no feats, different condition, rules, etc.
If your standard for "5e" is "uses a d20" then yeah they're the same game, but you're also a moron.
>Resolution's different
Still uses D20 vs DC >all of spellcasting is different
Still effectively Vancian >Races and racial stats are extremely different
Mostly the same but they matter less. >Class system is extremely different
In-built multiclassing that results in characters almost always mechanically more simplified than a 10th level champion fighter is not extremely different, just way more lame. >weapons and armour work very differently
Literally zero difference. >no feats
5e has like three or four actual feats anybody takes, so this also barely matters >different condition
Not really >Rules
See all of the above.
It's really just 5e but simpler and usually worse. Which is an impressive feat.
From what I've seen in the playtest materials, Weird Wizard fixes most of the shit I would've liked fixed in Demon Lord. Giving expert/master paths +1 level each is a great move as well.
I've read good reviews, so I got it. I expected dark and edgy fantasy with humankind assaulted by dark forces, elves and dwarves fighting a desperate guerrilla war against overwhelming enemies, maybe something like a fantasy Kult... and, holy smokes, did I got disappointed. Instead of a world in flame and elvish princesses getting raped by orcs and demons, I got milquetoast fantasy, with playable orcs and goblins, robots, n***er knights, gnome thieves furries, served with shitty lore and a crappy system. Absolutely nothing was salvageable. Nothing. I could write a better setting while taking a paid shit break at work.
>make one spell that makes you shit your intestines out >that's how your game is going to be remembered from now on
Why are people like this? It's not a bad game.
There is plenty of juvenile gore in the core rulebook. It is just that the shit your pants spell encapsulates that aesthetic.
Only edgy 14 year olds thing grimmderp is good worldbuilding. Shitter of the doo doo lord is meant for the same audience that likes 40k, literal children and manchildren who never grew out of their edgy phase because we stopped letting bullies do their fricking job.
That's such a dumb point in a hobby that's based around playing games where you roll dice and have fun with friends. Grimderp is fun because it can be pretty funny to do it with friends. A thing can be silly, immature and stupid and it still can be fun if you don't try to pretend you're too good for it. You don't have to like the system, but maybe take out the stick that's in your ass and try to actually do something silly.
Sorry, I meant grimdark I call it grimderp because it's for underage morons. >A thing can be silly, immature and stupid and it still can be fun if you don't try to pretend you're too good for it
The thing is, I am too good for it. Grimdark is for people who think edgy = mature, when edgy = immature.
If anything you're just a self important homosexual who thinks you're too smart for shit. Grimdark is also for people who think edgy = funny. A lot of Warhammer fan content is pretty goofy. Even some of the official stuff is comedic. The Infinite and the Divine is a warhammer book that is clearly written with the idea that it's funny. Hell, the fricking SotDL has comedic stuff in it. It's crude and low brow but it clearly isn't thinking about itself as edgy = mature so your entire argument is wrong and you're a moron.
It's even worse. Poopy D&D isn't edgy enough to try and appeal to the warhammer crowd because it still wants to seem "respectable" and "professional", but offers literally nothing else beyond being vaguely aligned with that same edginess. So it just goes nowhere.
I stopped playing for similar reasons to why I no longer play D&Dumb.
1. Classes are stupid. I do much prefer how SotDL do them though.
2. The d20 is way too swingy.
3. As GM, I was spending way too much time working out games between sessions that I just had to take a break.
While I can't help the final point, I can fix the first and second ones. And I am doing that now with a complete homebrew (classless, d12) system.
It hasn't Ganker has memed the general to death by reciting the same joke since the system came out but it's got a pretty thriving community elsewhere on the internet. Definitely not as breakneck a release schedule as prior to WW but still the occasional piece put out.
>one lame joke is enough to kill all discussion of it on an entire website
Sure sign of a robust community that
Eh, you fricktards say this but will go complain about how 5e dominates the hobby in another thread.
Maybe you should support the direct competitors to the biggest tabletop game on the market? Just a thought for the next time you impotently b***h and whine.
It succeeded fine it's just not got a general on Ganker. Contrary to the belief of this contrarian nightmare popularity on Ganker is not a good indicator of success, in fact it might be the exact opposite.
Of course, that's why 5e, 40k, warhammer fantasy, age of sigmar, cyberpunk, OSR, infinity, magic the gathering, exalted, mantic, TES, asoiaf, star trek, chess, yugioh, and half a hundred other games that get generals regularly around here are all failures.
Fricking moron lmao
Money I would imagine, and considering it's apparently made enough to spawn several offshoot RPG's I imagine there's a decent amount of it.
That and popularity among people who can actually enjoy something unironically without the desperate, crippling fear of being seen as "cringe" like it's still high school. So basically anywhere except here.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Money I would imagine, and considering it's apparently made enough to spawn several offshoot RPG's I imagine there's a decent amount of it.
This is never a sound way to judge whether a product is successful, let alone a brand. Given how little overhead there is in the digital age of tabletop books, it's slightly better than useless.
In terms of actual sales popularity, Sotdl did pretty good on drivethru as it hit Adamantine and rose pretty high up the pack, but its successive add-ons never achieved the same measure of popularity as they only hit Mithral.
For modules, which are a great measure of how much a game is actually being played after release, they're a pretty bad flop. The most recent starting one, GLABV, is only at Silver, which means 250-499 copies sold.
Dead by Dawn, the only other starting module release from back in 2017, only hit Platinum, which means 1000-1999 copies were sold.
As far as full campaigns go, its first big one, Tales of the Demon Lord, was also only able to reach Platinum, while the last big campaign release, Tales of the Pirate Isles, was at Gold, between 500 and 999 copies sold.
To put some of that into perspective, Cyberpunk RED, another Adamantine seller like Sotdl, still hits Adamantine with its more recent expansion books. And Exalted 3e's lorebook, released just a month ago, was at Gold.
And none of Schwalb's fastest-selling products seem to be doing better than copper (50 sales).
So the actual numbers just say, it's a total dry well right now, and nobody new or old is interested anymore.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>modules, which are a great measure of how much a game is actually being played after release,
What? Only unimaginative plebeians actually run modules.
It's almost a decade old and the last major supplement was released nearly half a decade ago, with most of the Schwalb's efforts for the past 3-4 years going into his new game. I don't even think the literal shitposting turned people off on /tg/, they just ran out of things to discuss about the system since most of it has probably been discuses already and the standard setting isn't anything to write home about. Still kinda bummed out that the martial equivalent to Occult Philosophy got scrapped and that the madness tradition never got as fleshed out as the other magic traditions, I'm hoping there's some madness-like spells in the new game to port over.
Games simultaneously don't live long and are eternal. They do most of their stuff right when they come out, but there is nothing preventing anybody from playing it at any point after. The support and content the game got is enough for most groups to play it exclusively for years, if they wanted to. That's enough, really. I'd say it probably is a better decision to go for making another game afterwards, instead of eternally just churning out more and more for the same game. Certainly more interesting for a designer.
people stopped biting poopy lord bait so there was nothing to actually discuss
much like the 4e threads die because 2hu just infodumps and nobody will read all that shit
It is a nearly decade old rules lite game with a decent early support that died off completely the moment the sequel was announced. People still play it, but its not hot shit anymore. More like a coprolith.
It happens. The general will probably be back when SotWW is out. Things were just a bit slow for a while.
>rules lite game
It's not rules lite
>decent early support that died off completely the moment the sequel was announced
It got years and years of support, and just started two full length campaign releases.
>It's not rules lite
Roflmao
It’s not GURPS and it’s not the dizzying sprawl of 3.5, but it’s hardly rules-lite.
It's pretty middle of the road for crunch, anon. Play more games.
> it’s not the dizzying sprawl of 3.5
3.5 was crunchy but in no way a "dizzying sprawl" unless you used a stupid amount of splats all at once. On the contrary the d20 system centralized a lot of rules which resulted in a reasonable streamlining of 2e.
>Play more games.
You should follow your own advice.
Btw "rules lite" is not a value judgement. Just sayin'.
Of course it's not a value judgement. No one is saying you're wrong because they think you hate the game. They're saying you're wrong because it's not a rules lite game. What a weird thing to decide to troll about.
No one said it's a value judgement, but shadow isn't really rules lite. I'd say a lot of PbtA games are rules lite, but not shadow.
Most RPGs die within one or two years. The exceptions tend to be artificially propped up, maintained at cost rather than via profits, in the vain hope that the game will eventually "catch on" by duping enough people into thinking it's a living, breathing system and not just a corpse strung up like a marionette.
Interest in a system dying off is the natural state of things. Most games see their highest sales for only a month or two at most, right at the beginning, and then the rest of their lifespan is just the game withering away.
If you mean the general, shitposting (lol) made the game not really worth discussing here. If you mean in general, I'd say it's doing/done alright for a game that isn't DnD, Warhammer, WoD, CoC or Pathfinder, but there's people out there just waiting for the sequel. Plus, memes aside, the setting really is a turn off for a lot of people.
I ran it for a short while before ending the campaign because of IRL issues. The biggest drawback to me and the reason I'm really reluctant to run it again is that it's somewhat niche and has no fricking SRD or free version. This means it has dick in the way of VTT support besides the character sheet existing, and my group plays online. Not sure I would have run it at all if the general didn't teach me how to download jsons of the bestiary and use 3rd party tools to upload monster sheets straight to roll20.
Probably because there's barely any major new content for it since the creator has been focused on Weird Wizard for the past few years, I still run games of it though and probably won't switch to WW.
I don't even use most of the official creatures outside of the pre-revised generic summoned creatures. Then again, I've always preferred homebrewing.
I'm not sure why I'd want a game to continue getting support forever. Even the things I like the most can't be enjoyed ad infinitum.
Extremely wise. No system or game lasts forever.
Your very own shitbrew keeps evolving as you do.
I did like to homebrew stuff, but having official stat sheets is useful because A) It's useful to have a base/template when homebrewing and B) (probably more importantly) it's extremely useful to just be able to throw in a bandit, or a bear, or a generic pickpocket or any other npcs that might be important enough to warrant a stat block but isn't important enough to warrant spending time making one from scratch.
If I wanted to play knockoff D&D, I'd just play Pathfinder.
This. Say what you will about Paizo, but Pathfinder 2e is getting lots of new decent-quality content. Shadow of the Shitlord isn't.
>pf2e
>decent-quality
pick one
No
I said "decent", not GOOD.
Also Paizo's content is consistently of a higher quality than D&D 5e's. I mean, I know that's a bar so low it's practically touching the ground already, but still...
that's my n1 problem with paizo. They are always just a tad bit better than the competition. The same thing was all i heard during the pf 1e days.
>But anon pf is better than 3.5 and 4e
Still not good enough to convince me to play otherdnd
Do you complain when you go to a better doctor, eat better food, watch a better movie, drive a car with better performance? It's a pretty weird problem to complain because something is better unless you can't have it too, but you can have it even if you don't want it.
Saying a game is better than DnD is like saying human shit tastes better than dogshit. Maybe it's better, but it's still shit.
scatological humour can only go so far before people lose interest
They should've leaned more into the scatological fetishism. That would've earned them a devoted fanbase.
I'm pretty sure they have a solid as stool fanbase in Germany.
1. People waiting for weird wizard
2. There's not much to discuss about save jesting about the poop, it's a solid game that does what is written on the tin can with enough content for years of games.
> it's a solid game that does what is written on the tin can with enough content for years of games.
Honestly, this is probably a large part of it. You look at conversations around D&D and its ilk and about video games, and the conversations are so often about modifying the base game or tweaking it or adapting it and so on. The Demon Lord Engine doesn’t seem have a terribly active homebrew scene—because people don’t feel as much of a need for one—so the only real conversation left is talking about your campaigns…which people are, for whatever reason, typically less invested in.
>which people are, for whatever reason, typically less invested in.
I generally like hearing campaign stories, but it's a hard sell to get strangers on the internet to care about you and your buddies having a good time, and then even if you do enjoy that sort of thing it's not very conducive to discussion.
It's more that nobody has interest. No matter how "perfect" or "complete" a game is, people with any amount of creativity will always want to modify or tweak it, and sotdl is neither perfect nor complete anyways. So if nobody is making interesting stuff, it means nobody interesting likes it.
Weird Wizard PDFs go out this weekend, yeah? Could be that people are just waiting.
Book 1 is out Monday
Huh, that soon? I thought it wasn't til August.
Fad died off, Shadowdark is the new hotness for pseudos
I dunno. I still enjoy it plenty actually. It's a pretty fun system with more options than 5e for me that's lighter and somewhat less heroic than pathfinder 2e.
Dark Souls and Dark Fantasy returned being a niche within a niche.
So, what's up with Weird Wizzard?
I Imagine that it isn't that different from Demon Lord generally only without all the grimdark baked in?
Nah, it's not just SotDL in a new coat of paint, it's a whole new game. It's using the same engine and so offers the same core rules and resolution systems from SotDL, along with its Path based progression and focus on more manageable campaign lengths. But it also has a lot of changes to those core systems both because it's a different game doing things for its own sake, and because SotDL is an 8 year old game and he's learned a lot. So even within the core rules it's not the same game. Stats work a little differently; there is a new type of roll; every modifier like obfuscation, cover, light, afflictions work differently; it doesn't have mechanics like insanity, madness, or corruption; the core action list is different; reactions are a bigger deal now; and a few other bits
But then changes to the structures of ancestries, paths, traditions, monsters, and equipment means that there isn't a single thing in the game that is the same as in SotDL. Even accounting for Paths that are called the same thing and filling the same niche in the set. The level distribution on Paths have changed so that Expert and Master paths get an extra level. Spells aren't tiered by rank, but by tier, and each Tradition has a talent pool that replaces what would be Rank 0 spells. It's just a very different game over all. The comment you replied to has a link with a lot more info if you want it.
Tonally the game says this about it "Shadow of the Weird Wizard sheds much of the bleakness and foulness of Shadow of the Demon Lord to offer a game suitable for just about anyone. In this game, you play heroes who struggle to help those in need against the sickness, despair, and corruption found in the world. While you can make the game more gruesome if you wish, the intent is for you and your friends to do good deeds and feel great about doing them"
Awesome.
Thank you for the write up anon.
My one issue with making the switch to WW right away is that DL had such a massive swathe of supplements, stuff like Godless that accommodated Mad Max-type vehicle combat and firearms. I feel like WW will appear comparatively barebones off the bat and would probably wait for a few more releases to take a dive.
That's a "problem" with any new game really. And I say "problem" because I'm not really sure it ever is one. SotDL and SotWW are pretty different games all in all and there is so much new stuff in it that you'd not be able to get through half of it before new books are out. Sure, it's not going to do Mad Max for you but SotDL doesn't do SotWW's style of fantasy all that well either. And it's not really as if you can use all of SotDL's content at once either. So while you can do a lot more with SotDL in general right now any single campaign of SotDL is going to be closer to any other single campaign of SotDL than that single campaign is to a campaign of SotWW. Godless withstanding.
Some one else put the Table of Contents here if you want to see all the first book has
. That's just the player side of things and it's the same size as SotDL's entire core book. There is a lot of stuff in that book to play with and the GM book is a similar size. Which makes that 2-3 times bigger than SotDL's core GM stuff. Loads of stuff off the bat for this.
Picrel helps showcase how different the content between the games is too. It's also just concept differences there too. All the Paths are mechanically unique in SotDL even if they share a concept and name. Sometimes those mechanics are pretty close but most of the time they're leveraging the unique parts of SotWW. So there aren't many repeats to my mind.
As other anon said, it's Path Tiers. So Novice/Expert/Master spells instead of Rank 0-10 spells.
That's the estimate for print copies but Schwalb always manages to undershoot those estimates by a good bit.
>classes for setting-specific gods
Ugh, why do developers all assume you'll be using the official setting now?
Because they're making a game for their setting, not yours.
It’s a pretty strong disincentive to switch systems knowing that you’re going to have to rewrite twenty-three Master Paths.
That sucks for you but entirely ditching the core setting isn't the norm. You can just not use those Paths if you don't want them in your setting, or not play SotWW at all if it's going to be a pain.
>You can just not use those Paths
It's literally ALL the Paths of the Gods.
So?
Because it is more convenient for brainlets who don't have their own settings as well as introducing people (GMs included) to a new game by already having a fully-fleshed out setting and not screwing them over by saying "ok now make the entirety of the Hindu religion real quick so you can do a one-session game with that crossdresser you picked up at the flgs"
As has been said, most people generally don't fully build their own setting and not providing a setting basically means you're not providing a full game. You need a setting to play the game in and its only really generic rulesets that can get away from not doing it these days. But more than that the setting informs the game, and the game informs the setting in turn. If you want the game to be about an experience it needs to be well suited to doing that and a setting helps that happen. This is a game where gods are real and felt forces in the world, so there are gods in the setting, and the gods in the setting are then reflected in Paths, which then impacts the setting by having mortal avatars of divinity about. A setting is just a good thing to have to make an interesting game. If you don't want to use that setting then that will obviously entail changing the game if you move away from the assumptions mechanics are derived from. No game with a setting should be at its best in another setting. It might be something an individual table likes more but if the mechanics are a suitable abstraction of the narrative then the setting should vitally inform the mechanics.
I normally don't like things too heavily tied to a specific setting, but c'mon anon. Those all read like generic god domains you find in every fantasy pantheon. Complaining about that would be like going "ugh fighters were renamed as Holy Knights. That name is too setting specific, literally unusable"
>Spells aren't tiered by rank, but by tier
Wow. That probably means something.
it does if you know SotDLs rules.
I do. And I can probably guess what it means. It won't make the wording any less stupid especially considering that "tier" as a keyword isn't something that really appears in the DL books.
path tier
Speaking of SotWW the editor dropped a preview of the TOC last week if people want to know exactly what's in the first book
Anything made as "reaction" or "correction" to something are steeped in ressentiment rather than creativity. 4e and 13th age were meant to "correct" Dungeons and Dragons, just as SotDL was meant to "correct" 5e. There isn't any heart beyond knee-jerk, microscopic fixes that ignore the essence of what people find appealing.
tl;dr it's essentially a mod, not a full game
Contemplate on this: people hate vanilla Skyrim but love Skyrim with mods.
Also, you're wrong and a gay. I'd rather kill myself than play 5e again but our SotDL campaign was very enjoyable.
>Contemplate on this: people hate vanilla Skyrim but love Skyrim with mods.
You're moronic, people love vanilla Skyrim and that's why they mod it. They aren't angry and seeking correction, they're already happy and seeking to extend that enjoyment.
This is also why Morrowind has a gigantic modding scene (For its playerbase), why New Vegas does, and why Oblivion, Fallout 4/3, and Starfield are varying levels of barren wastelands.
Completely wrong.
That'd be you, moron.
No.
>Starfield nowhere to be found
Kek, good job at proving his point moron.
Starfield doesn't even have a creation kit, moron, and it still has 6.8k mods.
Cope.
No, you cope. One of the biggest early Morrowind mods was made by someone who's known for hating the vanilla game.
You are coping,
Coping and seething,
You just can't accept what you're seeing,
Yes, you're coping,
Coping and seething!
Yeah, who would've guessed that the newest game with no creation kit would have the least mods. He also disproved it by showing that fallout 4 is right behind Skyrim so what's your point?
>people love vanilla <game> and that's why they mod it
this has to be strongest copium known to mankind
>t's essentially a mod, not a full game
Funny analogy considering that it was mods that changed the Ganker scene forever.
>microscopic fixes
Resolution's different, all of spellcasting is different, races and racial stats are extremely different, class system is extremely different, weapons and armour work very differently, no feats, different condition, rules, etc.
If your standard for "5e" is "uses a d20" then yeah they're the same game, but you're also a moron.
>taking the bait
>Resolution's different
Still uses D20 vs DC
>all of spellcasting is different
Still effectively Vancian
>Races and racial stats are extremely different
Mostly the same but they matter less.
>Class system is extremely different
In-built multiclassing that results in characters almost always mechanically more simplified than a 10th level champion fighter is not extremely different, just way more lame.
>weapons and armour work very differently
Literally zero difference.
>no feats
5e has like three or four actual feats anybody takes, so this also barely matters
>different condition
Not really
>Rules
See all of the above.
It's really just 5e but simpler and usually worse. Which is an impressive feat.
Everything is made as a reaction to something else. That’s where creativity comes from.
shidding and farding
I'm playing two campaigns in it. Very solid d20 system with lots of supplements, shits (heh) all over 5e.
From what I've seen in the playtest materials, Weird Wizard fixes most of the shit I would've liked fixed in Demon Lord. Giving expert/master paths +1 level each is a great move as well.
>Why did interest die off?
People actually played it.
ITT nogames that never played sotdl
I've read good reviews, so I got it. I expected dark and edgy fantasy with humankind assaulted by dark forces, elves and dwarves fighting a desperate guerrilla war against overwhelming enemies, maybe something like a fantasy Kult... and, holy smokes, did I got disappointed. Instead of a world in flame and elvish princesses getting raped by orcs and demons, I got milquetoast fantasy, with playable orcs and goblins, robots, n***er knights, gnome thieves furries, served with shitty lore and a crappy system. Absolutely nothing was salvageable. Nothing. I could write a better setting while taking a paid shit break at work.
Because nobody wants to play shitter of the doo doo lord.
>make one spell that makes you shit your intestines out
>that's how your game is going to be remembered from now on
Why are people like this? It's not a bad game.
There is plenty of juvenile gore in the core rulebook. It is just that the shit your pants spell encapsulates that aesthetic.
see
Only edgy 14 year olds thing grimmderp is good worldbuilding. Shitter of the doo doo lord is meant for the same audience that likes 40k, literal children and manchildren who never grew out of their edgy phase because we stopped letting bullies do their fricking job.
That's such a dumb point in a hobby that's based around playing games where you roll dice and have fun with friends. Grimderp is fun because it can be pretty funny to do it with friends. A thing can be silly, immature and stupid and it still can be fun if you don't try to pretend you're too good for it. You don't have to like the system, but maybe take out the stick that's in your ass and try to actually do something silly.
Sorry, I meant grimdark I call it grimderp because it's for underage morons.
>A thing can be silly, immature and stupid and it still can be fun if you don't try to pretend you're too good for it
The thing is, I am too good for it. Grimdark is for people who think edgy = mature, when edgy = immature.
If anything you're just a self important homosexual who thinks you're too smart for shit. Grimdark is also for people who think edgy = funny. A lot of Warhammer fan content is pretty goofy. Even some of the official stuff is comedic. The Infinite and the Divine is a warhammer book that is clearly written with the idea that it's funny. Hell, the fricking SotDL has comedic stuff in it. It's crude and low brow but it clearly isn't thinking about itself as edgy = mature so your entire argument is wrong and you're a moron.
It's even worse. Poopy D&D isn't edgy enough to try and appeal to the warhammer crowd because it still wants to seem "respectable" and "professional", but offers literally nothing else beyond being vaguely aligned with that same edginess. So it just goes nowhere.
The game is poopy in more ways than one.
I stopped playing for similar reasons to why I no longer play D&Dumb.
1. Classes are stupid. I do much prefer how SotDL do them though.
2. The d20 is way too swingy.
3. As GM, I was spending way too much time working out games between sessions that I just had to take a break.
While I can't help the final point, I can fix the first and second ones. And I am doing that now with a complete homebrew (classless, d12) system.
Poopoo peepee doesn't bring in long term fans
The scat enthusiasts blew their loads and moved on.
It hasn't Ganker has memed the general to death by reciting the same joke since the system came out but it's got a pretty thriving community elsewhere on the internet. Definitely not as breakneck a release schedule as prior to WW but still the occasional piece put out.
Then stay there, shit eater.
Eh, you fricktards say this but will go complain about how 5e dominates the hobby in another thread.
Maybe you should support the direct competitors to the biggest tabletop game on the market? Just a thought for the next time you impotently b***h and whine.
>jokes about peepee poopoo content in the game was enough to prevent it from succeeding
It succeeded fine it's just not got a general on Ganker. Contrary to the belief of this contrarian nightmare popularity on Ganker is not a good indicator of success, in fact it might be the exact opposite.
Of course, that's why 5e, 40k, warhammer fantasy, age of sigmar, cyberpunk, OSR, infinity, magic the gathering, exalted, mantic, TES, asoiaf, star trek, chess, yugioh, and half a hundred other games that get generals regularly around here are all failures.
Fricking moron lmao
Then what is? Popularity on transsexual discords?
Money I would imagine, and considering it's apparently made enough to spawn several offshoot RPG's I imagine there's a decent amount of it.
That and popularity among people who can actually enjoy something unironically without the desperate, crippling fear of being seen as "cringe" like it's still high school. So basically anywhere except here.
>Money I would imagine, and considering it's apparently made enough to spawn several offshoot RPG's I imagine there's a decent amount of it.
This is never a sound way to judge whether a product is successful, let alone a brand. Given how little overhead there is in the digital age of tabletop books, it's slightly better than useless.
In terms of actual sales popularity, Sotdl did pretty good on drivethru as it hit Adamantine and rose pretty high up the pack, but its successive add-ons never achieved the same measure of popularity as they only hit Mithral.
For modules, which are a great measure of how much a game is actually being played after release, they're a pretty bad flop. The most recent starting one, GLABV, is only at Silver, which means 250-499 copies sold.
Dead by Dawn, the only other starting module release from back in 2017, only hit Platinum, which means 1000-1999 copies were sold.
As far as full campaigns go, its first big one, Tales of the Demon Lord, was also only able to reach Platinum, while the last big campaign release, Tales of the Pirate Isles, was at Gold, between 500 and 999 copies sold.
To put some of that into perspective, Cyberpunk RED, another Adamantine seller like Sotdl, still hits Adamantine with its more recent expansion books. And Exalted 3e's lorebook, released just a month ago, was at Gold.
And none of Schwalb's fastest-selling products seem to be doing better than copper (50 sales).
So the actual numbers just say, it's a total dry well right now, and nobody new or old is interested anymore.
>modules, which are a great measure of how much a game is actually being played after release,
What? Only unimaginative plebeians actually run modules.
>one lame joke is enough to kill all discussion of it on an entire website
Sure sign of a robust community that
It was a shit joke to be fair
It's almost a decade old and the last major supplement was released nearly half a decade ago, with most of the Schwalb's efforts for the past 3-4 years going into his new game. I don't even think the literal shitposting turned people off on /tg/, they just ran out of things to discuss about the system since most of it has probably been discuses already and the standard setting isn't anything to write home about. Still kinda bummed out that the martial equivalent to Occult Philosophy got scrapped and that the madness tradition never got as fleshed out as the other magic traditions, I'm hoping there's some madness-like spells in the new game to port over.
Games simultaneously don't live long and are eternal. They do most of their stuff right when they come out, but there is nothing preventing anybody from playing it at any point after. The support and content the game got is enough for most groups to play it exclusively for years, if they wanted to. That's enough, really. I'd say it probably is a better decision to go for making another game afterwards, instead of eternally just churning out more and more for the same game. Certainly more interesting for a designer.
It's fine to play different systems.
The game works, no drama, the poop jokes will only get you so far.
He's making a new game, is why.