this
why the frick do mmos think they can get away with siphoning my money and the quality of the game is still dogshit compared to literally anything else?
Because those are optional. People are paying for extras, and they're paying for the extras they want. That's entirely different from being forced to pay to play in the first place
>those are optional
I can confirm as someone with 1000+ hours in destiny 2 that they are not, unless you want to spend your time doing content from 3 years ago that gives you no loot anymore.
Destiny links their content to the battle pass, that is why their model is shit
there is NO content in destiny that REQUIRES you to purchase a "meme pass" to be competitive in the game, you can smoke paying users without a care in the world and stasis and strand are shit compared to solar for pve content anyway. You are just mind broken into thinking you need that trash lol
t. 900 hours of destiny and a friend bought me the campaigns which I never touched because they suck ass compared to witch queen which is literally the only good part of destiny 2 since halo reach
in reality most people dont buy microtransactions or very few of them, not just in destiny but any free to play game
many just play the free shit and never spend a dime while mmo players pay a monthly fee to work a second job
Whales exist and will continue to exist. Doesn't mean they alone can make a genre. And if they can, whale hooks have been refined to be even more crack like and crypto gambling appealing than traditional MMOs, e.g. Gacha games and phone games. There's only so many whales in the world, and they are well fished now.
I don't really know how WoW is priced anymore giving all the expansions, but from the looks of it, Warcraft is $50 for the game and each expansion is another $50 on top of a $15 monthly free. It also has a cosmetic shop and battle pass.
Destiny is $50 for the latest expansion and no mothly fee.
Other games like Fortnight and LoL are pretty much totally free and $10-$25 for an option battle pass where just playing the game unlocks things that do not actually effect the game.
WoW pricing is $50 plus $15/mo - the sub gives you everything but the current expansion and you buy the current expansion to play it (and also buy expansions as they come out).
But tbh if you're good at WoW you can usually play entirely for free just by selling carries or playing the AH for gold and trading your gold for WoW tokens which can pay for your sub and also pay for expansions.
>10 bux every 3 months you don't have to pay is worse than a mandatory 9 bux every month
I get that to an American this may make sense because 10 is bigger than 9 but you're still wrong.
>MMO's died because $15 per month!
lmao
there are modern games with hundreds and hundreds of dollars of COSMETIC items, and those games are wildly popular
Most MMOs don't charge a monthly fee. WoW is one of the only ones that still do that. WoW is also the only one that was ever good and it's not good anymore. So that's why MMOs are dead.
no, they aren't, just because a few games are doing good doesn't mean the genre is ok. same thing happened to mobas, they genre is dead except for LoL and Dota2
Because WoW and Final Fantasy suck up all the players.
The genre has always existed with just a few games at the top with a bunch more literallywho tier MMOs dotting the landscape in the background. If I start bringing up shit like Kwanho, Drift City, or Troy Online I know for a fact 90% of Ganker will have no idea what the frick I'm talking about without looking it up.
WoW players killed MMO in general, they piratically forced all other MMOs to be like it because they go out of their way to convince others not to play otherwise
not only that, WoW has the worst implementation of sharding. I remember playing an MMO (I think it was Aion) where zones would have 3 shards you could intentionally jump between and it worked pretty well because you just stuck with shard 1 unless things got crowded. Meanwhile WoW forcibly sends everyone into these underpopulated shards that they make like 20 of just to ensure every server feels like a total ghost town.
Get 100 people to play WoW and maybe 20 reach max level. Then those 20 either get do exactly what the meta is or get left out of the endgame content because their builds can't hack it. 10 players decide to stick with it and pay a monthly sub fee for pressing buttons in the right order
>Get 100 people to play WoW and maybe 20 reach max level.
lol you are so far off on that number it is unreal. blizz has actually spoke on this before and it was something like 1 in every 10,000 people who tried the game would reach max level. the amount of people who quit the game before even leaving the starting zone is ridiculously high.
Internet dying.
Hyper-optimization culture tends to ruin RPGs.
AI now casually passing Turing Test means devs will increasingly only simulate their multiplayer experiences.
MMO devs realized it's more profitable and easier to ruin your game to milk the whale paypigs than it is to make a good game. Any mmo coming out after 2010 is whaleslop sadly.
The original reason MMOs even existed was to offer a way for people to interact and communicate without paying for AOL or using IRC, it was real time interaction with things to do.
When that stopped being something only they really provided, they stopped being popular. MSN, skype, xfire to an extent all provided the same shit MMOs did, for free or much less, and you didn't have to do anything else in them, they just existed as chat clients. Right around then is when MMOs did a complete fricking 180 on their design and started being about a progression based system and endgame contents instead of general socialization. This also resulted in things like LFG (though that was beginning to pop up when computers started getting powerful enough to tab out and keep a website open anyway).
As time's gone on the things that worked for MMOs originally no longer do. No one wants some socialization bullshit, they just talk on discord and can watch movies together on there, a game needs to have something to appeal, but people don't want that, if they played MMOs before, they want old MMOs, which can no longer exist due to market shift and budget bloat.
They've backed themselves into a corner, and even older games, exactly as they were, pale, because the community isn't, and never will be there again.
MMOs need a complete re-organization in terms of mechanics, ideas, and concepts to survive, but no one wants to bother, so we keep getting iterations from other genres that begin to devour the MMO marketshare. Extraction shooters, looter shooters, etc.
>When that stopped being something only they really provided, they stopped being popular.
this is what devs and marketers say all the time, but it's complete bullshit.
An MMO world provides a different platform for social interaction that is not available through social media, or messengers.
MSN was extremely popular and Facebook was in it's "Cool new Myspace" phase right before WotLK came out, yet it reached its absolute peak.
I'm sure there are a lot of tourists who came in for the WoW zeitgeist experience around that time, due to the TV ads, the GTA-style advertising "THIS GAME WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE DONT PLAY IT") who are never coming back, but to say the genre can never flourish again because of twitter is completely missing the point.
If that were the case, homosexuals like Steven Sharif wouldn't be able to scam millions of people with MMOs that are never coming out for years and years.
The demand is insane, but nobody is offering.
No, it doesn't. It provides the same thing: communication.
Just because you're autistic and separate communication by "type" doesn't mean the rest of the world and normalgays do.
And guess what? Normalgays make up 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the planet, and 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the money. So they're what get marketed to.
You are extremely autistic.
"Communication" isn't the offer, and social media doesn't offer that either. Nobody is "communicating" shit when they post a screencap from Always Sunny of Danny Devito saying "Suicide is badass", and that would never be a thing that you'd say IRL, ever.
What they offer is a social platform, with unique rules for engagement.
That's the whole point, and MMOs offer a social platform based around game mechanics.
>social interaction and engagement >not communication
holy shit you are the most autistic person I've ever seen, congratulations anon. The world does not abide by your one track definitions.
The nature of any communication is always almost entirely dictated and shaped by the platform for that communication.
You don't interact with people in a classroom the same way you interact with people at a party.
He's completely right. You're trying too hard to pin a singular point as the end of social platform growth and say that because it was before some singular point of MMO decline the thesis is untrue.
Factually MMOs had a weird niche of persistent progression where the game was effectively your hobby with social interactions around it. Nowadays you can pick up even a singleplayer game and stream it, tweet weird things from it, make reddit posts with some clips, and it all does zap a lot of the "sharing the hobby" charm. Effectively it strongly weakened incentives to encourage socializing through game design, so a lot of the cake got bitten by everything else.
nta but I think you fell for some clear biases. A lot of weirdos, even social outcasts didn't want to bother with MMOs at the time because BY DESIGN they were nothing but huge grindfests. It was NEAT that they nerfed player ability by requiring people to work together to reduce the grind, but it really was a simple way of merging mediums at once because communication wasn't that easy for computers to handle back in the day. That does not mean you were working together, it just meant the same amount of engagent you would get when you visit others and walk around a mall or go to the beach or hang out at home and watch movies and shit. It was an avenue for socialization built in with some asinine shit to do in the background. Since some social outcasts were able to make friends off of it, people like you started assigning it more value than it ever really had. MMOs never ever made things difficult enough to have a genuine multiplayer experience where a group of people overcome difficult odds. It was always a patience game and there are very very few games that allow for that kind of multiplayer "engagement" you're talking about. And its all PvP games. The "engagement" you're talking about is a vapid patience test because you don't do anything else with your time and the devs make it impossible to achieve something basic in 10 hours that every other game would give you in 10 minutes. Its a nice way to kill the time like beer pong is or playing a few rounds of MTG at a friend's house. But it is NOT a substitute for genuine engagement, it is busywork and always has been. Whether it was grinding all day or wasting away in endgame content, its the same shit.
>The original reason MMOs even existed was to offer a way for people to interact and communicate without paying for AOL or using IRC
You are fricking moronic as frick holy shit. Please ask someone older than 12.
>As time's gone on the things that worked for MMOs originally no longer do. No one wants some socialization bullshit, they just talk on discord and can watch movies together on there, a game needs to have something to appeal, but people don't want that, if they played MMOs before, they want old MMOs, which can no longer exist due to market shift and budget bloat.
Wrong. old MMOs can exist just fine. There are MMOs that are 20 years old at this point with thousands of players
The problem is that no one can pitch the concept of an old MMO to a publisher in a way that makes a publisher understand what isf un about it. Publishers want numbers, they want cash shops, they want party finders, they don't want the concept of someone spending comfy times with friends and then spending money to continue those comfy times.
This is the real reason MMOs died, publishers started demanding unrealistic amounts of profit from a genre whose only breakout success up until that point was WoW. Which resulted in cash shops. Which resulted in people leaving because who the frick wants to play a second job that's designed like a theme park?
The real answer is that the MMO part of MMORPGs don't exist anymore. People don't actually socialize in games anymore because they have discord for that now. Just load up any multiplayer game, nobody uses text chat and voice chat is depressingly empty except for the kids who don't realize console mics are by default on
Not to mention, none care about the journey. It's just "Let's get to the end ASAP" before everyone else does. Like a pointless rat race, and for what? PVP at the waaaaaay end?
>Novelty of connecting with a ton of strangers across the world wore off >data-mining removed all secrecy >data-sharing/cataloging leads to people figuring out metas/optimizing the fun out of games >people grew up >a lot of the struggle/inconveniences that made people have good memories of older MMOs were removed for convenience/accessibility >Catering to the wrong crowds/specific crowds >etc
Communication. An MMO’s biggest draw is the fact you can talk to someone other than an npc. Nowadays when you want to know about the game world people just tell you to look up the wiki and everyone just stays in their own discord calls rather than use the games chat.
MMOs were 2000s things because the internet was new and joining together with people was exciting. The zoomer generation was born into an established internet so it's not exciting for them
Nobody talks anymore. It doesn't matter where you look. Everyone will soon communicate exclusively with memes and emojis. >MMOs died to social media
Your opinion is stuck somewhere around 2007.
It became harder to justify new MMORPGs as improved technology allowed for various social media platforms and "large" multiplayer experiences in other genres.
The few that do make it past the suits still have to fit into the same mold as the most popular MMOs within their target region, leading to their demise because there aren't enough people willing to abandon a character with years of effort put into it just to play a copycat.
>too much min/max homosexualry >leveling is no longer a journey, now you quickly grind out max level or can pay to get it so you can ignore most of the content to get to end game content only >online databases and datamining ruining any sense of discovery >streamer/YouTuber/content creator influence >new MMOs just copy old ones to fish for subscribers, barely any new ones being made because there's no new ideas >paying real life money to get ahead whether it's for in game currency or gear is no longer mocked and fully accepted >the "I have a life, I shouldn't be expected to actually play the game" crowd >P2P subscription model has only gotten less and less justified everywhere
moronic design. > Become stronger > Get better items > NEVER LOSE ANYTHING
That is simply not sustainable.
If you want a good MMORPG your game needs a natural cycle of degradation of exp / skills / attributes / gear.
because the only opportunity for mmos to be big and popular again, is when we'll finally get SAO or Ready Player One type mmos where you can just put on the full dive helmet without all the bullshit this moronic homosexual suggests
if you do like that moron says, you'll have a game that is dead the moment details come out, there's a reason nobody plays full pvp mmos or the ones where you risk losing everything
so now all we have to wait is probably 30-40 years time, and by then most of us are going to be either dead or barely conscious anyway so don't bother
moronic design. > Become stronger > Get better items > NEVER LOSE ANYTHING
That is simply not sustainable.
If you want a good MMORPG your game needs a natural cycle of degradation of exp / skills / attributes / gear.
>morons never heard of horizontal progression
el em ayo
Vertical progression is fine in singleplayer games but in a MMO it means everything that isn't current endgame is not worth bothering with.
Meanwhile horizontal progression gives you new stuff without making everything else obsolete.
If you need fire resistence to beat the fire raid and shadow resistence to beat the shadow raid you can create alot of content without causing the stat numbers to get out of control
>you need fire resistence [sic] to beat the fire raid that doesn't award better gear than the one you already have due "le horizontal progression" and shadow resistence [sic] to beat the shadow raid that doesn't award better gear than the one you already have due "le horizontal progression"
Sounds like pure cope tome.
>b-but people will play for buzzword
Remove the gear and progression then. Oh wait, people will play and ASShomosexualS or FPS instead, gee I wonder why.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Because those games have actual gameplay instead of a gear treadmil?
11 months ago
Anonymous
And what's exactly stopping you from having both "actual gameplay" and "gear progression"?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Nothing? I don't play games that have gear progression because it's only padding.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>because it's only padding
Unlike horizontal progression, right? Are you OK?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, what, exactly, is horizontal progression to you?
most games fail to capitalize on the "massively multiplayer" aspect, which invariably causes them to tilt towards a lobby-based format
this also causes players to lean more and more into min-max metahomosexualry
couple that with boring, clunky tabtarget gameplay and a decade of almost everyone trying to copy the WoW formula and you get the current (absolute) state of the genre
MMO-lites are likely the future of the genre, since they can afford to have much more interesting gameplay
Genre died because its absolute dog shit genre.
But honestly it died because its old genre, that is all there is to it, old dies, gets replaced by new.
Also MMORGP is not cost efficient or money generator, people asked for ton of expensive content only to speedrun it in 3 days and then whine endlessly when is the next content.
People also realized those competitive esports games are also better. You can play for 10000 hours and still not run out of content, probably by then just unlock one more level of complexity on how it is to play against people that absolutely excel at the game and are perfect at it.
Just let this shit genre die already
Everyone is a socially moronic mute autist now that if they do talk, its only to be an absolute mega Black person and cause conflict and screech about trannies instead of having fun and playing video games.
They just want to do nothing and play solo in an mmo.
Brown people will literally spend $120 a month on shit for a phone game but refuse to spend $15 on a subscription. In the past, the internet was almost entirely white, but due to smartphones now its mostly brown morons (cf: Ganker's posting quality). This all might not make sense to you, but its true.
Listen panchito, I’m just explaining the online demographic shift that made mobile games astronomically more profitable than mmogs. Tons more browns, who are way more innumerate and willing to get chiseled over microtransactions.
MMOs died cause the balance that maintains them isn't something that is seen as appealing to the new generation of gamers cause of their being alternatives which take less time and effort in comparison.
One reason some games work is cause they don't make it an exceeding grindfest chore to be able to get to a decent level to do "recent stuff", so people wouldn't just get annoyed and quit. Also, consider how its just easier to socialize on social media, games aren't as necessary to form communities anymore, if anything one can just join the respective place and chat there.
There just really isn't a place for MMOs without changing how they work in general nowadays.
because capcom didn't localize dragons dogma online
the vast majority of mmos these days don't make it out of chinkland and western players don't know they exist at all
They claim MMOs cost so much money to make but so many of the systems in them are 20 year old designs that are just fricking obsolete or plain bad. Like you're telling me simple threat table AI is how you have to do enemy behavior in fights? Two decades on and the orcs still can't figure out they should go for the healers? Or quest writing, you could tell that Elder Scrolls online actually put resources into quest writing before launch because it stood out compared to literally ever other game that probably spent $12.50 on their entire quest writing budget. They're shit games made by shit devs for players who are content to eat shit and if by some chance, a game decides to put actual resources into one design area instead of going on cruise control like B&S with combat or ESO with questing they fall flat on their faces in a dozen other areas like enemy ai, dungeon design or crafting.
Patience and attention span is shortened so the reward curve for playing an rpg is lower now. It’s why leveling in wow is now an afterthought, and ‘daily grinds’ are all anyone wants to do.
Exploration, leveling, quests, story are all secondary. So of course the games become shitty. It’s because most plebs have zero taste and that’s what they want.
I think that the main audience of mmos were the kind of failed normies who infest social media now. the game was always just an excuse for them to attention prostitute, but not in real life where they couldn't make it. that only leaves the autistic grinders, but they can just play mobileshit now. literally no one ever liked mmos for the actual gameplay.
Like 90% of games try to take up your entire life and be a job simulator now with login bonuses and daily missions, leaving no off-time for hanging out in an actual MMO.
the gameplay of these games are dogshit and they died once we got social networks like facebook and discord
the whole genre boils down to "its fun with friends" and you know anything can be fun when playing with friends, playing mmos alone feels so fricking shit because the inherrently suck
You can't quote the correct post nor follow a conversation, which makes you de facto moronic too. That by bona fide assuming that you aren't samegayging, because else you're literally a double moron.
Because the continuous socioeconomical downturn made it impossible for true mmo games to survive because their audiences cannot afford to live in fantasy worlds and continue surviving in reality and those things are a prerequisite for true mmo games. Most people these days are wagecucks, not chads that live off their bank deposits and can do whatever the frick they want in their free time which is the majority of their time. Most people today have no fricking free time at all, or are so exhausted by wagecucking that they cannot do anything other than think about killing themselves. This is the real reason MMOs are dead.
The real reason is because we grew up. Those of us who played in the early 2000's era of MMOs played games that just wouldn't appeal to the younger people anymore.
Zoomers don't wanna group up to complete quests, grind a dungeon, or farm for drops. They want instant zoom zoom action that's flashy with no commitment. Why play a game that gradually unlocks the cool shit instead of a game where you get it all up front?
...you level up, you dense swine.
What does leveling up do? It gives you access to more weapons, armors, fricking skills, etc. Have you ever played a video game?
No, this is the real reason. Everything wasn't five times as expensive in 2000 while the wages remained the same, like it is today.
Because the continuous socioeconomical downturn made it impossible for true mmo games to survive because their audiences cannot afford to live in fantasy worlds and continue surviving in reality and those things are a prerequisite for true mmo games. Most people these days are wagecucks, not chads that live off their bank deposits and can do whatever the frick they want in their free time which is the majority of their time. Most people today have no fricking free time at all, or are so exhausted by wagecucking that they cannot do anything other than think about killing themselves. This is the real reason MMOs are dead.
It can't be a coincidence that every modern MMO is a PvE oriented safespace primarily made for dragon slayers, where PvP and player conflict is completely optional or instanced instead of an integral part of the games. MMOs without these elements become really dull and unexciting.
wpvp is dogshit
it's only made for high levels with tiny dicks to kill people who don't even have a chance to retaliate
coward Black person latams like this shit because their life is so shit they have to spit on others to feel good
>you never heard of escalating before? calling in the big guns from your guild or assembling a retaliation force with lfg?
This makes for really shit gameplay, man.
I know it can make great memories and be a good bonding experience, but it's shit gameplay.
mmos have always had shit gameplay by themselves, it's escalating and meta sandboxing that gives them that edge
>escalating your time waster with for reward
That literally never happens.
>b-but WoW
Only the first two months and only because people tried to had fun, then honor and BGs happened and people stopped "wasting" time with wpvp.
bullshit. i camped most hotspots in varying timezone for months on end on nostalrius
>escalating your time waster with for reward
That literally never happens.
>b-but WoW
Only the first two months and only because people tried to had fun, then honor and BGs happened and people stopped "wasting" time with wpvp.
Not really, old PvP focused MMOs were always niche and barely grew and every PvP MMO released during the last two decades crashed and burned because the sociopaths that enjoy them just play Rust or Ark.
>oh no they killed npc that will respawn in 5 minutes >oh no they kill me, and now i lost 30 seconds of my life to run from grave
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, and apparently that is too much for crybaby PvEers.
11 months ago
Anonymous
But loosing your XP, loot, or territory is too much for baby PVPers from wow.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>if you lose you waste time >if you win you waste time
Maybe people want to play a real PvP MMO or a real PvE MMO instead of that?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Is there ever a time when you're not wasting time playing an MMO? This entire genre is built around wasting time.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Every time you actually "win" anything by winning a fight. Either looting the other guy, kicking him from your turf, who now you/your guild can exploit or even in WoW 2v2 minigames (great "massive" game you got here, WoWtards) with you get ratting to get exclusive gear.
Is there ever a time when you try to make honest arguments?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Corpse camping a guy until he either logs out or calls his friends is fun, then I can bring my friends and corpse camp them some more. You don't really need the constant illusion of progress if the game has fun moment to moment gameplay. Sadly most of the hardcore PvP MMOs play like total ass, it's just a numbers game where the biggest zerg wins.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So you camping a guy, same level as you, without PVP gear?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Sure whatever, what are you getting at?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>it's just a numbers game where the biggest zerg wins
11 months ago
Anonymous
>zerg a guy until he quits
That's what happened in WoW classic and why most PvP reals ended as "one faction" realms.
11 months ago
Anonymous
They're all forced together now on classic era and it's great, if it was really that bad people would just play on a PvE server.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So, if I look up faction ration on retail version, I will see 50% ratio?
11 months ago
Anonymous
No idea, only morons play retail. Slightly above stupid people like me play classic era.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So, if I look up faction ratio on classic version, I will see 50% ratio?
11 months ago
Anonymous
I think so, if you combine all the realms.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If you combine 10 100% horde realms and 10 100% alliance realms, you get 50% overall ratio. But you also get 20 totally unbalanced realms.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It all evens out to a point where it isn't even a noticeable difference, it all depends on how many of each are logged in at any particular time.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Wait, what? NTA but are you telling me that WoW is so dead they mixed every sever into one realm with sharding?
11 months ago
Anonymous
It seemingly solved the faction imbalance and dead realm issues that has been present for the entire duration of WoW's existence. It's a good thing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And you pay monthly for that mockery of the MMO genre? Guess that explains your hot take about MMORPGs and wPvP, it just checks.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The MMO genre is as good as dead anon, there is nothing to mock.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, it all evens out, because faction with lower numbers of players, for some reason, have more logged in players. Totally makes sense.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Its a progressive problem. Classic started with a bunch of relatively even servers, but transfers frick it all up every time because some guild of nerds tired of being on the low end of a 60/40 balance will transfer to a realm with a reversed ratio, and the process repeats until only a handful of realms have any actual balance and everyone else is running "You came to the wrong neighborhood". Its a wild ride from Fresh until the transfer equilibrium asserts itself, but you can't do Fresh forever.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>WoW 2v2 minigames (great "massive" game you got here, WoWtards)
are you suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to play with small groups in an mmo?
11 months ago
Anonymous
What's the point of a MMO is progression is locked behind a 5v5 (maximum) fights? There's a reason why almost every WoW PvP player moved to ASShomosexualS.
>BDO >New world >Conan exile >Mortal Online >Camelot Unchained >every korean MMO that was releleased in past 10 years
They all failed, because it's impossible to balance world PVP. Only exception is Albion online, but this game has really unique game mechanics
>PvP and player conflict is completely optional or instanced instead of an integral part of the games. MMOs without these elements become really dull and unexciting.
And gaes with these elements made a priority are dying, because that system promote two groups: paypigs who fight with their credit cards or nolife autists who spend 24/7 online; regardles of which case it is, new players are not interested to stay and keep system afloat, because they will never have a chance to compete with paypigs/autists on the fair ground
Yes. They used to be a good place for you to meet up and socialize online and meet new people. Now mmo's are just full of sweaty tryhard minmaxxing nerds
MMOs died because WoW completely altered the perception of what a 'successful' MMO looks like and companies stopped trying once WoW levels of popularity didn't immediately occur.
The current popular non-WoW MMOs have significantly more active players than shit like Everquest or SWG or DAoC had in the early 2000s and yet everyone thinks they're all barely hanging on because we've been conditioned to think of anything less than WotLK-era WoW numbers as utter failure.
Hell, FFXI, a game which came out before most posters on this board were born, still has around 100k active players which is more than enough to keep it going and keep a small drip of new content coming out.
I see people unironically calling some coop games dead because they don't have 50k people playing at all time.
Depending on the game something as low as 500 players can be fine as long as its sustained. People are fricking moronic
Min-maxers killed them.
Used to be able to trial and error shit with a group back in the day which was fun, but now days you need to basically do homework and know every encounter in an instance before going or you get flamed.
Managed to get 5 friends together to play a few MMOs, trying to figure out the dungeons with my pals was the best time I've ever had playing them.
To be honest, I almost want random boss mechanics on dungeon reset in MMOs at this point to force min maxers to quit being suck homosexuals.
>To be honest, I almost want random boss mechanics on dungeon reset in MMOs at this point to force min maxers to quit being suck homosexuals.
it wouldn't work, it'd just triple the amount of homework you'd be expected to do before fighting the boss. Or an addon would get made that automatically datamines the boss as you fight it and tells you what you need to do.
Deadly Boss Mods type shit was another one of the worst things to ever happen to MMOs, bosses had to get needlessly complicated because everyone had giant flashing warning for the more simple mechanics.
MMOs turned from a friendly social space online into a place where people who have competitive mindsets but no actual accomplishments to speak of in real life, go to accomplish things so they can feel they have a superior status over other people
status seeking dooms all MMOs into irrelevance since even the most 'egalitarian' MMOs will put in something to let people show their superiority over others, even if its entirely cosmetic
It was normalized by WoW and once people got tired of the flashy keys they moved onto the next big thing, which was MOBAs, and then they moved on from MOBAs to BRs. Catering to normalgays is always a poor long-term plan.
The problem with MMOs is the same problem with every live service game: you need constant, high-quality updates or people frick off, and producing that shit is expensive for something you plan to have people pay $60 as an initial buy in followed by $15/month service fee.
People used MMOs as a social space. People these days get that through social media and forums more than they did back in the day. Kids are also more antisocial these days and don't like interacting much.
I only really liked FFXI because it wasn't a bugman game. It was designed for a controller and had the camera behind the player, it wasn't this isometric garbage where there's 200 icons at the bottom of the screen each bound to a hotkey, making your character look like a jaggy ant.
But my experience with FFXI lead me to believe MMOs were somewhere between Minecraft and Monster Hunter, with gameplay like an open world JRPG where you control a single party member. These qualities are pretty popular. They should be popular together, too. But WoW solidified that MMOs are just RTSs for morons. At that point, why not just play a MOBA? You're not going to get immersed in a bugman game, you're only going to care about PvP and spamming skills at bosses.
MMOs were technologically advanced for its time, now it's the complete opposite. People would rather play a well-polished game with a small group of friends instead of watered down shit that also takes a while for it to get good.
>MMOs back them >hundreds of players fighting on one map >FPS back them >128 vs 128 maps >MMOs now >server crashes if 20 players meet outside an instanced area >FPS now >6 vs 6
I blame consoles and probably the israelites too, just to be on the safer side.
MMOs have this gameplay concept that you're playing one game until level cap, and then playing another game AT that cap. It ended up being easier to develop solid single player experiences and doing multi-player that didn't fundamentally require a giant time sink and connecting with people you can actually tolerate because your friends have other shit to do.
right here homie, good old russian wow
I always thought their version of the warlock was cooler, and I love how every race gets their own title for the generic classes (elves were demonologists, the undead dudes were savants and the evil humans were defilers)
Like all other mmos, it is now lost in the swamp of P2actuallykeepup
I have an easy fricking answer.
MMOs aren't special anymore because literally every game is online nowadays. We don't have to put up with mashing shit on a GCD and wautubg for rare spawns.
Lack of community building.
The people who run the fricking things don't have any talent or a personality to speak of. Everyone at Blizzard who had a drop of fricking savvy left ages ago. It's a social game run by asocial people, straight into the ground.
MMOs kill the players (mind, body, and soul.)
They are degeneration accelerants, similar to hard drugs, except without the hedonistic peaks that these provide.
Oh, and of course: They do the same to the developers. The audience shapes the producer and vice versa.
Ironically, they are a good filter for when the time of destiny comes.
MMOs get data mined and solved within days of release and all people do is pick the strongest meta class, blaze through earlygame as quickly as possible so they can consume whatever endgame content there is before going on reddit and complaining about there not being enough content.
Good fricking riddance to those colossal time sinks. But at the same time they've probably been some of the most satisfying experiences imo. Those epic journeys as your character grows and competes or clashes with other player's characters and their investments. I miss things like your character growing a history, reputation and lore through the social dynamics. Nothing quite seems to hit that spot.
because MMO's thrive off of an extremely small niche of highly autismal players, but dev costs have ballooned so high on these they need to target whales and normies or they can't sustain themselves. Which means they all become fads rather than anything with staying power
The better question is
Why didn't it die sooner?
The prospect of a game generating a monthly income by subscription fees.
A lot of WoW knockoffs and "killers" had to switch to f2p to save some face and income.
All MMOs suffer from outdated gameplay and since WoW came around the corner the copycats aren't even trying to be creative anymore.
>Why did MMORPG die as a genre?
MMOs are hard to develop. a single mobile game with microtransactions is cheaper and easier to produce and can generate higher profit margins than MMOs.
another factor is that MMORPGs have low dopamine/hour rate so most players moved on to other online games.
doesn't help that MMOs are jack of all trades master of none. mediocre pvp, gameplay, artstyle, graphics, story, progression, etc with microtransactions, time sinks, RNG and RMT mashed into a game
I don't get why devs/publishers don't just make MMOs that are designed with enough content to last 1-2 months instead of making these content drip feed 'forever games' that nobody likes anymore.
They could just sell it as a regular game and put it in maintenance mode once the FotM is over, maybe even revive it every couple of years later with paid DLC.
>the only good post in this thread
I still cant believe blizzard decided to keep milking wow when they could have just go full israelite with HS and OW
>wikis >the entire game becoming focused around raids, with giga-autist nolifers who will get buttmad if you don't play your character in the most optimal way possible >lack of innovation or originality
Honestly, more games should have taken notes from Runescape >crafting that tries to emulate how things are actually made IRL >increased options for interacting with objects, leading to greater variety of quests. >no main story, just individual questlines with their own self-contained stories >world that is open but not empty
People will hate me for telling the truth, but the heart of the matter is that MMOs used to be a safe social space for maladjusted nerds for use while they engaged in their hobby.
It is no longer that due to 15 years or so of sanitization and ever increasing accessibility and mass casualization of the genre, to the point where it is now mostly just doing chores with people you probably hate. It used to be that when you logged onto an mmo, you were (virtually) surrounded by people with tastes and interests very similar to your own and engaging in a game you actually enjoyed, now it is just any other form of socialization but you have to suffer through increasingly cancerous Games-as-a-service bullshit.
>and mass casualization of the genre
modern MMOs are far harder than boomerslop >Games-as-a-service bullshit
MMOs were always games-as-service you fricking tard
youre the one who cant keep up with harder games grandpa, learn your place
11 months ago
Anonymous
briefly standing in the fire when the addon tells to you is not hard little moronbro
11 months ago
Anonymous
if its not hard why are boomers incapable of doing it?
11 months ago
Anonymous
it's not just boomers little moronbro
11 months ago
Anonymous
its entirely boomers that cant handle real games
people under 30 arent trying to play dogshit like EQ
11 months ago
Anonymous
>real games
zoomers dont play games, they crutch on addons and view everything in parse numbers, and don't comprehend real raid cohesion at all
also, there are just as many tardzooms such as yourself that can't do something as simple as stand in the fire briefly as there are tardboomers. get your dick out of your ass
Probably one of the more smarter things SEGA is doing with NGS right now. Give everyone their own free space. Obviously, they can sell decent parts for Real life Money, but that the price for having a free home instance that allow the owner to have up to 100 players visiting the place.
Gacha stole the "log in everyday to grind" insects
Mobas and team shooters stole the casual players that just want to chill with their friends
Social Media stole the roleplayers who want to live in a virtual world
Hardcore raiders are irrelevant and can't sustain a game by themselves
>play this game that needs a monthly fee >still have to pay for new content >at some point you NEED to team up with others to complete something (this was cool in the past, but people just SUCK nowadays especially zoomers) >Guild drama, loot drama, DRAMA because you don't agree with moron in global chat >play with people that have a legit learning disability (I've seen people play wow for years...longer than me, a 9 year player and they're still bad)
I'm glad I stopped at WoW classic and never looked back
MMOlites are the future of the genre, games like Destiny 2, Warframe. Shit like that. But we need a better leveling system like the old MMOs. I miss the grind, let me grind levels out in an MMOlite with Trickster/Ragnarok Online's loot system and it will be good in my book
i just hope some big company wastes money trying to make a pvp full loot mmo to prove all the carebears that this is what makes mmos interesting and engaging.
new world was basically a survival game like rust/ark, they only switched to becoming a mmo midway because they were chasing trends. They never properly designed that game to be a MMO from the beginning.
WoW and FFXIV tards came into the alpha and they couldn't comprehend a game that wasn't a WoW-clone so they spewed their garbage complaints and the devs turned the game into a literal piece of shit because of it. It's a sad story.
Turns out themepark players are defeatists. They can't picture themselves winning a PvP fight so they rather hunt some more boars and do a raid or whatever. They are choosing to be losers in both worlds.
lmao there's the buzzword. I mained musket in new world and boomers would send me angry private messages accusing me of hacking just because I had some FPS experience. MMO PvP attracts the worst casual elitists who think they want to be competitive until they face someone of equal or better skill, then they run away or try and get their friends to gang up on them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
MMO PvP is supposed to be unfair, that's the appeal
11 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, it just happens to be that the people who think they're going to farm other players are actually the ones who get farmed and silently quit the game in embarrassment.
I lost hundreds of PvP encounters but I still remember the first time I killed a player and took their stuff. Safe PvE MMOs will never give you that experience because absolutely nothing matters in these games.
Eventually you play because the PvP is fun.
I refuse to get good at a purely mechanical skill like aiming in an MMORPG, if I wanted to aim I'd play an FPS.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Meant for
Sure, it just happens to be that the people who think they're going to farm other players are actually the ones who get farmed and silently quit the game in embarrassment.
Nobody really likes hardcore WoW though, it's actually a real case of "you think you do but you don't", nothing but empty twitch streamer generated hype that will die off in a week once people lose their first character.
If Blizzard release a Hardcore servers were the one real change is the inability to resurrect, the game will be doomed. The amount of griefing and exploiting that will happen will put phase 2 of Classic WoW to shame.
pvp has always had pvp exclusive rewards
this has not changed w/ the season pass. All it means is now you don't have to perform well to get your rewards.
MMOs were originally for the gamer/DND geek dad crowd.
That was always the core audience in the west. When that failed and the neet power gamer came in, the structure crumbled and the rest of the human refuse followed such as trannies and the like.
We are not getting another golden age of MMOs until they truly become a niche just for bored white nerdy dads again.
World of Warcraft. No other MMO comes close, and most of those that quit WoW, quit MMOs for good, or eventually relapsed.
There hasn't been anything to beat it and take the MMO genre further.
Everyone still tries to copy it to this day.
>They require a lot of resources and investment, not just to make it, but also maintaining a pipeline of content >Other games and genres have done the live service shit, but better and more consistent >MMOs were never that popular until WoW, they didn't die, they're just back to being a niche again, now that WoW has been shitting the bed for over 10 years >Social media and explosion of the internet means you don't need to play an MMO to have social interaction online anymore >Most MMOs require a large time investment, and some MMOs require monthly fees
>MMO >forty hours of shitty fetch quests and spamming AoE skills to kill twenty mobs at once until you're max level and can raidlog once a week while you pray for a gear drop that will be meaningless within a month
VS >normal, non-shit game >turn on game, instantly matched with other players, instantly having fun
That's why. It's a garbage genre that was completely ruined by dipshit players who just want a skinnerbox they can mindlessly click while they watch netflix, and moron devs who refuse to evolve MMOs in any meaningful way.
>Disney own Club Penguin, a meme chat mmo >and own Pixie Hollow, mmo for little girls >and Toon Town, mmo for kids >and Marvel Online, for Marvelgays >and Pirates of the Caribbean Online, for Pirategays >Disney kill them all
I hate the mouse so much. FREE FRICKING MONEY AND THEY STILL KILL THEM REACHING ALL DEMOGRAPHIC.
Because people woke up and realize that MMOs aren't fun. They are a grind, you play one, you play them all. The chase for loot, the social aspect, it all died. The new generation doesn't care about socializing in the same way that the older generation did. So even if you start to talk about something, there is no connection. The 30-40 year old talking with the 15-20 year old aren't going to have anything in common. The MMO was always a trashfire, a flash in the pan. It was only ever going to work because it was the frontier of the internet and it was the new kid on the block. Once almost any game could be online, the need for the MMO died.
everybody grew up and no longer had the time to grind that shit. zoomers don't have the patience due to all the instant gratification they're exposed to.
Too much investment >turn console on >find a match >start playing
versus >grind for months for level >grind for more months for equipment >needs to play religiously every day otherwise you are out of your party
If your group is that strict that you literally have to play every day to keep up, either: >The game is shit >Your party group is a bunch of speed addicts who want to "experience" the content as fast as possible, burn out, and leave until next patch instead of enjoy it at a healthy pace
or >Both
World of Warcraft is the step backwards in the MMO genre.
A good MMO must be a sandbox, and it must be primarily PVP based. And PVP must be spontaneous, players must fight OVER something, not just fight because it's funney.
It provides UNIQUE experience, that no other genre can provide.
Theme park PVE based MMOs are just bad imho. Provides worse experience than a regular game.
Skyrim is better than TESO, SWKTOR is way better than SWTOR.
EVE is an interesting and unique experience, Genshin is just a money grab
Koreans are too greedy >P2W and huge cash shops leading to game killing decisions such as power creep and constant new classes so people keep spending money on more characters which ruins balance or paying for a swimsuit so you can swim 200% faster
Westerners are too prudish and obstinate >afraid of sex appeal and unwilling to deviate from the status quo leading to poor decisions such as generally ugly characters that don't stand out and boring outfits, bad gameplay that mimics 20 year old mechanics with very minimal innovation involved and general jankiness
OSRS is permanent sub because it's actually great and social.
Then Classic WoW era was fun for abit.
I always come back to LOTRO every now and then because its kino lore and RPG experience. It also has a LOT of optional side grinds with rewards that are worthwhile.
MMOs are alive. It's just that I am dead inside....
dfo pservers are literal scams, do not trust them
and I would advise against trying to burn all your stamina, once you get more than three characters it becomes too much of a chore
Because they haven't evolved. Look what happened to ESO. It's just statistics, number pools, and weird percentile mechanics rather than raw player skill. PvE gays also ruined everything.
The only good MMO-like strategy would be like Ark or Conan. Everything else is catering toward Koreans, I.E. the cancer of online gaming formulae.
I say dying. It takes a lot of time to create and often lower graphics, lower quality, and or simplistic gameplay compared to other games. Competition, other game genres that have live services) has grown with every game having a battle pass and or in game store taking more time and money from players.
Imagine watching something you love (GW1) get transformed, raped, and defiled to a joke of a game that is GW 2 by people that didn't play GW1 and inject their SJW and troony fetishes. The game itself is lacking in all department. I left when WvW was a sad pathetic version of itself, world boss is just a giant pinata, you get jack shit as a reward for attending anything other than Fractals, I heard Raid is abandon, PvP is botted, etc. Story is a giant shit tard. I think this video explain it better just for Cantha alone.
Everquest Online Adventures > Final Fantasy 11 > Star Wars Galaxies > Dark Age of Camelot > Planetside / Everquest 2 / City of Heroes / Guild Wars > World of Warcraft (2004) > Burning Crusade > Vanguard / Lord of the Rings Online > Warhammer Online > Wrath of the Lich King > Darkfall / Mortal Online > Cataclysm > RIFT / SWTOR > Pandaria / Guild Wars 2 > Draenor > Elder Scrolls Online / Final Fantasy 14 > Legion > Black Desert Online > World of Warcraft: Classic > Project 1999 (classic Everquest)
I feel bad for all the zoomers who missed out on the golden age of MMO's.
Because very few people actually liked the full MMO experience.
Most people just liked some part of it and can find a game that specializes in that one part instead of being mediocre at all of them. >like team PvP? go play a dedicated PvP game, like MOBAs or some shit >like exploring? go play a dedicated open world game, like Genshin or some shit >like raiding? go play a bossfighting game, like Monster Hunter or some shit >like loregayging? go play some 2deep4u backstory game, like Elden Ring
>>like exploring? go play Genshin
Genshin is a gacha hell grinding simulator that shoves itself into an open world, not an actual open world exploration game.
Too little free time. Most people work too much to invest in an MMO. If you little time for vidya, you have to pick and choose which games you play. Even most hardcore gamers are casual in playtime hours because of this harsh reality. Only NEETs can pull off keeping up.
>Level cap after playing for only a month >Rest of the game is just minmaxing for raid-like content
Why did this shit become so prominent? I watched anime about MMOs and I literally thought these games were about endless growth and exploration of environments. I didn't know you reached the end of incremental growth quickly and most of the content is just bosses.
No modern MMO knows how to make a leveling experience. They try to make theme parks, and theme parks are horrendously boring because they only work if you play solo. There is no group theme park MMO.
Modern MMOs are designed so you can't hit the max level of power by ignoring all the difficult content in favor of grinding boars for 1000 hours, max level is just the end of the tutorial. Real MMOs will never function like muh anime outside the first couple months when people don't have the tools to cheat past the early content.
No feeling of server community, what sense of community there is in general is dictated by streamer culture, game min maxed and sold before release by 20 different WHATS UP GUYS YouTubers, the secondary function of being a place to meet with and chat with like minded people has been obliterated by streaming/discord culture, the true endgame of all mmos the cosmetics is undercut by modern business practises, paying real money for official or unofficial services ruined the suspension of disbelief that the game was an great equaliser and everyone you meet was on a similar adventure to you with all the same tools available to you.
Why don't they make MMO arena battle where people fight in a map but they need to buy/mix and match their equipments first a la Counter Strike.
I remember playing RYL arena/battleground which was like that and it was mighty fun.
mmo players are just insufferable autistic c**ts
ffxiv are fake nice and then psycho morons when pressed
wow players all think they are gods and cant be humble ; doubly for classic players.
just a bunch of miserable sod.
If you arent playing with some cute girls there is litterally no reason to be paying per month
Because there are so many other games that dont require you to pay a monthly fee
this
why the frick do mmos think they can get away with siphoning my money and the quality of the game is still dogshit compared to literally anything else?
and yet people pay for cosmetics and buy battle passes and yearly expansions for games like destiny
monthly fees are fine compared to that shit
Because those are optional. People are paying for extras, and they're paying for the extras they want. That's entirely different from being forced to pay to play in the first place
Before chinese brain infected games, those "extras" would just be part of the game you paid for.
>those are optional
I can confirm as someone with 1000+ hours in destiny 2 that they are not, unless you want to spend your time doing content from 3 years ago that gives you no loot anymore.
Destiny links their content to the battle pass, that is why their model is shit
there is NO content in destiny that REQUIRES you to purchase a "meme pass" to be competitive in the game, you can smoke paying users without a care in the world and stasis and strand are shit compared to solar for pve content anyway. You are just mind broken into thinking you need that trash lol
t. 900 hours of destiny and a friend bought me the campaigns which I never touched because they suck ass compared to witch queen which is literally the only good part of destiny 2 since halo reach
in reality most people dont buy microtransactions or very few of them, not just in destiny but any free to play game
many just play the free shit and never spend a dime while mmo players pay a monthly fee to work a second job
This is why the f2p model has become increasingly the industry standard. Your typical low iq mark doesn’t even know he’s been worked.
Blame the whales. Last time I bother to check (like 2 expansions ago) WoW had a bigger revenue that year than WotLK at peak subs.
Whales exist and will continue to exist. Doesn't mean they alone can make a genre. And if they can, whale hooks have been refined to be even more crack like and crypto gambling appealing than traditional MMOs, e.g. Gacha games and phone games. There's only so many whales in the world, and they are well fished now.
destiny is an mmo and the pass gives you content not cosmetic shit which is less than 3% of it
I don't really know how WoW is priced anymore giving all the expansions, but from the looks of it, Warcraft is $50 for the game and each expansion is another $50 on top of a $15 monthly free. It also has a cosmetic shop and battle pass.
Destiny is $50 for the latest expansion and no mothly fee.
Other games like Fortnight and LoL are pretty much totally free and $10-$25 for an option battle pass where just playing the game unlocks things that do not actually effect the game.
WoW pricing is $50 plus $15/mo - the sub gives you everything but the current expansion and you buy the current expansion to play it (and also buy expansions as they come out).
But tbh if you're good at WoW you can usually play entirely for free just by selling carries or playing the AH for gold and trading your gold for WoW tokens which can pay for your sub and also pay for expansions.
>10 bux every 3 months you don't have to pay is worse than a mandatory 9 bux every month
I get that to an American this may make sense because 10 is bigger than 9 but you're still wrong.
>MMO's died because $15 per month!
lmao
there are modern games with hundreds and hundreds of dollars of COSMETIC items, and those games are wildly popular
There's a difference in perception of value when spending money on cosmetic items versus spending money just to be able to continue playing the game
Most MMOs don't charge a monthly fee. WoW is one of the only ones that still do that. WoW is also the only one that was ever good and it's not good anymore. So that's why MMOs are dead.
mmos are fine
just wow is dead
good riddance
no, they aren't, just because a few games are doing good doesn't mean the genre is ok. same thing happened to mobas, they genre is dead except for LoL and Dota2
>they genre is dead except for LoL and Dota2
The genre IS LoL and Dota 2.
well yeah, same thing with Fornite, Apex and Pubg?, people don't make battle royales anymore
The genre has always existed with just a few games at the top with a bunch more literallywho tier MMOs dotting the landscape in the background. If I start bringing up shit like Kwanho, Drift City, or Troy Online I know for a fact 90% of Ganker will have no idea what the frick I'm talking about without looking it up.
the gameplay is just not fun
>just wow is dead
if wow is dead every other mmo is fricking dead
Because most people don't want to play a MMO, they want a co-op game or a PvP game.
WoW players killed MMO in general, they piratically forced all other MMOs to be like it because they go out of their way to convince others not to play otherwise
WoW mainstreaming sharding spelled the death of MMOs by making players feel they were alone
not only that, WoW has the worst implementation of sharding. I remember playing an MMO (I think it was Aion) where zones would have 3 shards you could intentionally jump between and it worked pretty well because you just stuck with shard 1 unless things got crowded. Meanwhile WoW forcibly sends everyone into these underpopulated shards that they make like 20 of just to ensure every server feels like a total ghost town.
people went after the flashy ones instead of playing the good ones like mabinogi
Get 100 people to play WoW and maybe 20 reach max level. Then those 20 either get do exactly what the meta is or get left out of the endgame content because their builds can't hack it. 10 players decide to stick with it and pay a monthly sub fee for pressing buttons in the right order
>Get 100 people to play WoW and maybe 20 reach max level.
lol you are so far off on that number it is unreal. blizz has actually spoke on this before and it was something like 1 in every 10,000 people who tried the game would reach max level. the amount of people who quit the game before even leaving the starting zone is ridiculously high.
Internet dying.
Hyper-optimization culture tends to ruin RPGs.
AI now casually passing Turing Test means devs will increasingly only simulate their multiplayer experiences.
>AI now casually passing Turing Test
they're not AI, they're sequential text/image generators.
It's just very clever procedural generation.
Thank you for your contribution, pedant.
You don't understand the importance of what he was saying.
LLMs don't make gameplay any better. They just talk like people.
cash shops, gradual dumb changes. loved me some ragnarok online for about a decade, its unrecognizable now
MMO devs realized it's more profitable and easier to ruin your game to milk the whale paypigs than it is to make a good game. Any mmo coming out after 2010 is whaleslop sadly.
The original reason MMOs even existed was to offer a way for people to interact and communicate without paying for AOL or using IRC, it was real time interaction with things to do.
When that stopped being something only they really provided, they stopped being popular. MSN, skype, xfire to an extent all provided the same shit MMOs did, for free or much less, and you didn't have to do anything else in them, they just existed as chat clients. Right around then is when MMOs did a complete fricking 180 on their design and started being about a progression based system and endgame contents instead of general socialization. This also resulted in things like LFG (though that was beginning to pop up when computers started getting powerful enough to tab out and keep a website open anyway).
As time's gone on the things that worked for MMOs originally no longer do. No one wants some socialization bullshit, they just talk on discord and can watch movies together on there, a game needs to have something to appeal, but people don't want that, if they played MMOs before, they want old MMOs, which can no longer exist due to market shift and budget bloat.
They've backed themselves into a corner, and even older games, exactly as they were, pale, because the community isn't, and never will be there again.
MMOs need a complete re-organization in terms of mechanics, ideas, and concepts to survive, but no one wants to bother, so we keep getting iterations from other genres that begin to devour the MMO marketshare. Extraction shooters, looter shooters, etc.
>When that stopped being something only they really provided, they stopped being popular.
this is what devs and marketers say all the time, but it's complete bullshit.
An MMO world provides a different platform for social interaction that is not available through social media, or messengers.
MSN was extremely popular and Facebook was in it's "Cool new Myspace" phase right before WotLK came out, yet it reached its absolute peak.
I'm sure there are a lot of tourists who came in for the WoW zeitgeist experience around that time, due to the TV ads, the GTA-style advertising "THIS GAME WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE DONT PLAY IT") who are never coming back, but to say the genre can never flourish again because of twitter is completely missing the point.
If that were the case, homosexuals like Steven Sharif wouldn't be able to scam millions of people with MMOs that are never coming out for years and years.
The demand is insane, but nobody is offering.
No, it doesn't. It provides the same thing: communication.
Just because you're autistic and separate communication by "type" doesn't mean the rest of the world and normalgays do.
And guess what? Normalgays make up 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the planet, and 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the money. So they're what get marketed to.
You are extremely autistic.
"Communication" isn't the offer, and social media doesn't offer that either. Nobody is "communicating" shit when they post a screencap from Always Sunny of Danny Devito saying "Suicide is badass", and that would never be a thing that you'd say IRL, ever.
What they offer is a social platform, with unique rules for engagement.
That's the whole point, and MMOs offer a social platform based around game mechanics.
>social interaction and engagement
>not communication
holy shit you are the most autistic person I've ever seen, congratulations anon. The world does not abide by your one track definitions.
>When you use words correctly, it makes me feel stupid, and I don't like that !
The nature of any communication is always almost entirely dictated and shaped by the platform for that communication.
You don't interact with people in a classroom the same way you interact with people at a party.
He's completely right. You're trying too hard to pin a singular point as the end of social platform growth and say that because it was before some singular point of MMO decline the thesis is untrue.
Factually MMOs had a weird niche of persistent progression where the game was effectively your hobby with social interactions around it. Nowadays you can pick up even a singleplayer game and stream it, tweet weird things from it, make reddit posts with some clips, and it all does zap a lot of the "sharing the hobby" charm. Effectively it strongly weakened incentives to encourage socializing through game design, so a lot of the cake got bitten by everything else.
Shit man I never thought about it like that, yu're a genius
nta but I think you fell for some clear biases. A lot of weirdos, even social outcasts didn't want to bother with MMOs at the time because BY DESIGN they were nothing but huge grindfests. It was NEAT that they nerfed player ability by requiring people to work together to reduce the grind, but it really was a simple way of merging mediums at once because communication wasn't that easy for computers to handle back in the day. That does not mean you were working together, it just meant the same amount of engagent you would get when you visit others and walk around a mall or go to the beach or hang out at home and watch movies and shit. It was an avenue for socialization built in with some asinine shit to do in the background. Since some social outcasts were able to make friends off of it, people like you started assigning it more value than it ever really had. MMOs never ever made things difficult enough to have a genuine multiplayer experience where a group of people overcome difficult odds. It was always a patience game and there are very very few games that allow for that kind of multiplayer "engagement" you're talking about. And its all PvP games. The "engagement" you're talking about is a vapid patience test because you don't do anything else with your time and the devs make it impossible to achieve something basic in 10 hours that every other game would give you in 10 minutes. Its a nice way to kill the time like beer pong is or playing a few rounds of MTG at a friend's house. But it is NOT a substitute for genuine engagement, it is busywork and always has been. Whether it was grinding all day or wasting away in endgame content, its the same shit.
>paying for AOL
homie AIM was free
if you had internet access to play MMOs, you could use AIM for free
>The original reason MMOs even existed was to offer a way for people to interact and communicate without paying for AOL or using IRC
You are fricking moronic as frick holy shit. Please ask someone older than 12.
>As time's gone on the things that worked for MMOs originally no longer do. No one wants some socialization bullshit, they just talk on discord and can watch movies together on there, a game needs to have something to appeal, but people don't want that, if they played MMOs before, they want old MMOs, which can no longer exist due to market shift and budget bloat.
Wrong. old MMOs can exist just fine. There are MMOs that are 20 years old at this point with thousands of players
The problem is that no one can pitch the concept of an old MMO to a publisher in a way that makes a publisher understand what isf un about it. Publishers want numbers, they want cash shops, they want party finders, they don't want the concept of someone spending comfy times with friends and then spending money to continue those comfy times.
This is the real reason MMOs died, publishers started demanding unrealistic amounts of profit from a genre whose only breakout success up until that point was WoW. Which resulted in cash shops. Which resulted in people leaving because who the frick wants to play a second job that's designed like a theme park?
No innovation
Stagnant genre.
The real answer is that the MMO part of MMORPGs don't exist anymore. People don't actually socialize in games anymore because they have discord for that now. Just load up any multiplayer game, nobody uses text chat and voice chat is depressingly empty except for the kids who don't realize console mics are by default on
Not to mention, none care about the journey. It's just "Let's get to the end ASAP" before everyone else does. Like a pointless rat race, and for what? PVP at the waaaaaay end?
They're bigger than they've ever been, with the sole exception of WoW at its highest peak..
Reminder that Everquest peaked at 250k subs lmao.
The only reason is devs found out you make more money with half assed mobile games
>Novelty of connecting with a ton of strangers across the world wore off
>data-mining removed all secrecy
>data-sharing/cataloging leads to people figuring out metas/optimizing the fun out of games
>people grew up
>a lot of the struggle/inconveniences that made people have good memories of older MMOs were removed for convenience/accessibility
>Catering to the wrong crowds/specific crowds
>etc
MMOs are filled with convenience features to the point where it's no longer necessary to interact with other players. Even the PvP is optional.
MMOs occupied a space in social media that is now filled by group chats and twitter.
there is simply no need for them in the mainstream any more.
Communication. An MMO’s biggest draw is the fact you can talk to someone other than an npc. Nowadays when you want to know about the game world people just tell you to look up the wiki and everyone just stays in their own discord calls rather than use the games chat.
MMOs were 2000s things because the internet was new and joining together with people was exciting. The zoomer generation was born into an established internet so it's not exciting for them
MMOs were a product made for 2000s.
Nobody talks anymore. It doesn't matter where you look. Everyone will soon communicate exclusively with memes and emojis.
>MMOs died to social media
Your opinion is stuck somewhere around 2007.
>wow and swtor
It's dead because you moronic homosexuals give attention to the least deserving slop games
It became harder to justify new MMORPGs as improved technology allowed for various social media platforms and "large" multiplayer experiences in other genres.
The few that do make it past the suits still have to fit into the same mold as the most popular MMOs within their target region, leading to their demise because there aren't enough people willing to abandon a character with years of effort put into it just to play a copycat.
mmo are fine
Playing albion online for 3 years now. The player base is solid as frick
Love you bros
Now get the frick out of my swamp
My absolute homie. Full loot PvP chads can't stop winning.
I started playing some years ago and now somehow ended up being an alliance leader with thousands of players in it.
I was just chilling lol.
>too much min/max homosexualry
>leveling is no longer a journey, now you quickly grind out max level or can pay to get it so you can ignore most of the content to get to end game content only
>online databases and datamining ruining any sense of discovery
>streamer/YouTuber/content creator influence
>new MMOs just copy old ones to fish for subscribers, barely any new ones being made because there's no new ideas
>paying real life money to get ahead whether it's for in game currency or gear is no longer mocked and fully accepted
>the "I have a life, I shouldn't be expected to actually play the game" crowd
>P2P subscription model has only gotten less and less justified everywhere
moronic design.
> Become stronger
> Get better items
> NEVER LOSE ANYTHING
That is simply not sustainable.
If you want a good MMORPG your game needs a natural cycle of degradation of exp / skills / attributes / gear.
Full-loot PvP MMOs are doing great.
because the only opportunity for mmos to be big and popular again, is when we'll finally get SAO or Ready Player One type mmos where you can just put on the full dive helmet without all the bullshit this moronic homosexual suggests
if you do like that moron says, you'll have a game that is dead the moment details come out, there's a reason nobody plays full pvp mmos or the ones where you risk losing everything
so now all we have to wait is probably 30-40 years time, and by then most of us are going to be either dead or barely conscious anyway so don't bother
Ah yes, pointless busywork and padding, just what good video games need.
>morons never heard of horizontal progression
el em ayo
>you need busywork and padding for horizontal progression
You might be moronic for real.
"horizontal" progression is pure cope and blatantly shit
Vertical progression is fine in singleplayer games but in a MMO it means everything that isn't current endgame is not worth bothering with.
Meanwhile horizontal progression gives you new stuff without making everything else obsolete.
No it isnt.
If you need fire resistence to beat the fire raid and shadow resistence to beat the shadow raid you can create alot of content without causing the stat numbers to get out of control
>you need fire resistence [sic] to beat the fire raid that doesn't award better gear than the one you already have due "le horizontal progression" and shadow resistence [sic] to beat the shadow raid that doesn't award better gear than the one you already have due "le horizontal progression"
Sounds like pure cope tome.
>b-but people will play for buzzword
Remove the gear and progression then. Oh wait, people will play and ASShomosexualS or FPS instead, gee I wonder why.
Because those games have actual gameplay instead of a gear treadmil?
And what's exactly stopping you from having both "actual gameplay" and "gear progression"?
Nothing? I don't play games that have gear progression because it's only padding.
>because it's only padding
Unlike horizontal progression, right? Are you OK?
Anon, what, exactly, is horizontal progression to you?
iphones and social media
Since you like YouTube videos, why not watch when of the many about why MMOs are dead instead of asking us? Again?
most games fail to capitalize on the "massively multiplayer" aspect, which invariably causes them to tilt towards a lobby-based format
this also causes players to lean more and more into min-max metahomosexualry
couple that with boring, clunky tabtarget gameplay and a decade of almost everyone trying to copy the WoW formula and you get the current (absolute) state of the genre
MMO-lites are likely the future of the genre, since they can afford to have much more interesting gameplay
Genre died because its absolute dog shit genre.
But honestly it died because its old genre, that is all there is to it, old dies, gets replaced by new.
Also MMORGP is not cost efficient or money generator, people asked for ton of expensive content only to speedrun it in 3 days and then whine endlessly when is the next content.
People also realized those competitive esports games are also better. You can play for 10000 hours and still not run out of content, probably by then just unlock one more level of complexity on how it is to play against people that absolutely excel at the game and are perfect at it.
Just let this shit genre die already
It's not dead, millions are spread all over. You just don't like them anymore.
Everyone is a socially moronic mute autist now that if they do talk, its only to be an absolute mega Black person and cause conflict and screech about trannies instead of having fun and playing video games.
They just want to do nothing and play solo in an mmo.
Brown people will literally spend $120 a month on shit for a phone game but refuse to spend $15 on a subscription. In the past, the internet was almost entirely white, but due to smartphones now its mostly brown morons (cf: Ganker's posting quality). This all might not make sense to you, but its true.
quiet idiot, mexico is whiter than you
Listen panchito, I’m just explaining the online demographic shift that made mobile games astronomically more profitable than mmogs. Tons more browns, who are way more innumerate and willing to get chiseled over microtransactions.
i don't care what you have to said, my picture is proof that i'm whiter than you.
Show me a picture in real life instead of you cringe soi and maybe i'll consider reading your post
Brown people don't have money for microtransactions, you're just a moronic mutt obsessed with your fellow brown people.
and you are an ignorant moron,stuff is cheaper to buy in other countries.
>"Brown people will literally spend $120 a month"
Your own words, tardo.
gg no re
Well not making a big new MMO in over a decade hasn't exactly helped.
Because people want to play games not do chores.
/thread
Games as a Service over saturation
The only thing for you to do is raid and do instances once you hit max level, there’s no more “world”
MMOs died cause the balance that maintains them isn't something that is seen as appealing to the new generation of gamers cause of their being alternatives which take less time and effort in comparison.
One reason some games work is cause they don't make it an exceeding grindfest chore to be able to get to a decent level to do "recent stuff", so people wouldn't just get annoyed and quit. Also, consider how its just easier to socialize on social media, games aren't as necessary to form communities anymore, if anything one can just join the respective place and chat there.
There just really isn't a place for MMOs without changing how they work in general nowadays.
because capcom didn't localize dragons dogma online
the vast majority of mmos these days don't make it out of chinkland and western players don't know they exist at all
Japan is still pissed WoW was never brought over so they've been withholding all their mmos ever since.
Too much initial investment needed in an oversaturated market.
They claim MMOs cost so much money to make but so many of the systems in them are 20 year old designs that are just fricking obsolete or plain bad. Like you're telling me simple threat table AI is how you have to do enemy behavior in fights? Two decades on and the orcs still can't figure out they should go for the healers? Or quest writing, you could tell that Elder Scrolls online actually put resources into quest writing before launch because it stood out compared to literally ever other game that probably spent $12.50 on their entire quest writing budget. They're shit games made by shit devs for players who are content to eat shit and if by some chance, a game decides to put actual resources into one design area instead of going on cruise control like B&S with combat or ESO with questing they fall flat on their faces in a dozen other areas like enemy ai, dungeon design or crafting.
too many trannies
look at runescape
Patience and attention span is shortened so the reward curve for playing an rpg is lower now. It’s why leveling in wow is now an afterthought, and ‘daily grinds’ are all anyone wants to do.
Exploration, leveling, quests, story are all secondary. So of course the games become shitty. It’s because most plebs have zero taste and that’s what they want.
Dark Age of Camelot was the last good MMO. There just aren't any good ones anymore.
>Release a new MMO with DAoC alumni
>They all either go EoS or vaporware'd
Mark Jacobs has always been slimy as frick, even back when he was leading DAoC.
Matt Firor went to ESO which at least is a functioning product
I think that the main audience of mmos were the kind of failed normies who infest social media now. the game was always just an excuse for them to attention prostitute, but not in real life where they couldn't make it. that only leaves the autistic grinders, but they can just play mobileshit now. literally no one ever liked mmos for the actual gameplay.
Like 90% of games try to take up your entire life and be a job simulator now with login bonuses and daily missions, leaving no off-time for hanging out in an actual MMO.
the gameplay of these games are dogshit and they died once we got social networks like facebook and discord
the whole genre boils down to "its fun with friends" and you know anything can be fun when playing with friends, playing mmos alone feels so fricking shit because the inherrently suck
PC network generation mental ills from 20 years ago >> mobile net generation mental ills now, literal human waste
You can't quote the correct post nor follow a conversation, which makes you de facto moronic too. That by bona fide assuming that you aren't samegayging, because else you're literally a double moron.
Because the continuous socioeconomical downturn made it impossible for true mmo games to survive because their audiences cannot afford to live in fantasy worlds and continue surviving in reality and those things are a prerequisite for true mmo games. Most people these days are wagecucks, not chads that live off their bank deposits and can do whatever the frick they want in their free time which is the majority of their time. Most people today have no fricking free time at all, or are so exhausted by wagecucking that they cannot do anything other than think about killing themselves. This is the real reason MMOs are dead.
Yep. This is the one.
You just don't have the time or money to play an MMO anymore.
The real reason is because we grew up. Those of us who played in the early 2000's era of MMOs played games that just wouldn't appeal to the younger people anymore.
Zoomers don't wanna group up to complete quests, grind a dungeon, or farm for drops. They want instant zoom zoom action that's flashy with no commitment. Why play a game that gradually unlocks the cool shit instead of a game where you get it all up front?
>unlocks the cool shit
>complete quests, grind a dungeon, or farm for drops
>grind
>farm
you really dont get why people wouldnt want to do these things?
What cool stuff you unlock by
>complete quests, grind a dungeon, or farm for drops
in wow classic?
...you level up, you dense swine.
What does leveling up do? It gives you access to more weapons, armors, fricking skills, etc. Have you ever played a video game?
No, this is the real reason. Everything wasn't five times as expensive in 2000 while the wages remained the same, like it is today.
you think people would hop back on warcraft just because they got a pay raise?
video game prices have barely moved since 2000
stop being poor
Sounds like a good reason to play a cheap MMO instead of more expensive hobbies. Also all MMOs grew during the pandemic. You're dumb.
It can't be a coincidence that every modern MMO is a PvE oriented safespace primarily made for dragon slayers, where PvP and player conflict is completely optional or instanced instead of an integral part of the games. MMOs without these elements become really dull and unexciting.
wpvp is dogshit
it's only made for high levels with tiny dicks to kill people who don't even have a chance to retaliate
coward Black person latams like this shit because their life is so shit they have to spit on others to feel good
WPvP requires really tight design constraints and balance to prevent the RPG mechanics from ruining it.
you never heard of escalating before? calling in the big guns from your guild or assembling a retaliation force with lfg?
you're just shit at metagaming, unironically skill issue
>you never heard of escalating before? calling in the big guns from your guild or assembling a retaliation force with lfg?
This makes for really shit gameplay, man.
I know it can make great memories and be a good bonding experience, but it's shit gameplay.
mmos have always had shit gameplay by themselves, it's escalating and meta sandboxing that gives them that edge
bullshit. i camped most hotspots in varying timezone for months on end on nostalrius
>bullshit. i camped most hotspots in varying timezone for months on end on nostalrius
Yeah most people aren't mentally ill.
>escalating your time waster with for reward
That literally never happens.
>b-but WoW
Only the first two months and only because people tried to had fun, then honor and BGs happened and people stopped "wasting" time with wpvp.
Not really, old PvP focused MMOs were always niche and barely grew and every PvP MMO released during the last two decades crashed and burned because the sociopaths that enjoy them just play Rust or Ark.
World of Warcraft was niche huh?
>WoW
>pvp focused
Are you moronic?
Guess you didn't play on a pvp server
>oh no they killed npc that will respawn in 5 minutes
>oh no they kill me, and now i lost 30 seconds of my life to run from grave
Yeah, and apparently that is too much for crybaby PvEers.
But loosing your XP, loot, or territory is too much for baby PVPers from wow.
>if you lose you waste time
>if you win you waste time
Maybe people want to play a real PvP MMO or a real PvE MMO instead of that?
Is there ever a time when you're not wasting time playing an MMO? This entire genre is built around wasting time.
Every time you actually "win" anything by winning a fight. Either looting the other guy, kicking him from your turf, who now you/your guild can exploit or even in WoW 2v2 minigames (great "massive" game you got here, WoWtards) with you get ratting to get exclusive gear.
Is there ever a time when you try to make honest arguments?
Corpse camping a guy until he either logs out or calls his friends is fun, then I can bring my friends and corpse camp them some more. You don't really need the constant illusion of progress if the game has fun moment to moment gameplay. Sadly most of the hardcore PvP MMOs play like total ass, it's just a numbers game where the biggest zerg wins.
So you camping a guy, same level as you, without PVP gear?
Sure whatever, what are you getting at?
>it's just a numbers game where the biggest zerg wins
>zerg a guy until he quits
That's what happened in WoW classic and why most PvP reals ended as "one faction" realms.
They're all forced together now on classic era and it's great, if it was really that bad people would just play on a PvE server.
So, if I look up faction ration on retail version, I will see 50% ratio?
No idea, only morons play retail. Slightly above stupid people like me play classic era.
So, if I look up faction ratio on classic version, I will see 50% ratio?
I think so, if you combine all the realms.
If you combine 10 100% horde realms and 10 100% alliance realms, you get 50% overall ratio. But you also get 20 totally unbalanced realms.
It all evens out to a point where it isn't even a noticeable difference, it all depends on how many of each are logged in at any particular time.
Wait, what? NTA but are you telling me that WoW is so dead they mixed every sever into one realm with sharding?
It seemingly solved the faction imbalance and dead realm issues that has been present for the entire duration of WoW's existence. It's a good thing.
And you pay monthly for that mockery of the MMO genre? Guess that explains your hot take about MMORPGs and wPvP, it just checks.
The MMO genre is as good as dead anon, there is nothing to mock.
Yeah, it all evens out, because faction with lower numbers of players, for some reason, have more logged in players. Totally makes sense.
Its a progressive problem. Classic started with a bunch of relatively even servers, but transfers frick it all up every time because some guild of nerds tired of being on the low end of a 60/40 balance will transfer to a realm with a reversed ratio, and the process repeats until only a handful of realms have any actual balance and everyone else is running "You came to the wrong neighborhood". Its a wild ride from Fresh until the transfer equilibrium asserts itself, but you can't do Fresh forever.
>WoW 2v2 minigames (great "massive" game you got here, WoWtards)
are you suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to play with small groups in an mmo?
What's the point of a MMO is progression is locked behind a 5v5 (maximum) fights? There's a reason why almost every WoW PvP player moved to ASShomosexualS.
>BDO
>New world
>Conan exile
>Mortal Online
>Camelot Unchained
>every korean MMO that was releleased in past 10 years
They all failed, because it's impossible to balance world PVP. Only exception is Albion online, but this game has really unique game mechanics
>PvP and player conflict is completely optional or instanced instead of an integral part of the games. MMOs without these elements become really dull and unexciting.
And gaes with these elements made a priority are dying, because that system promote two groups: paypigs who fight with their credit cards or nolife autists who spend 24/7 online; regardles of which case it is, new players are not interested to stay and keep system afloat, because they will never have a chance to compete with paypigs/autists on the fair ground
another reason why mmo's are dead is you can't live a functional life and be good at the game too.
I don't know man MMOs were always for no lifers or college kids
>can never go back in time to being in college and playing vanilla WoW
Shoot me
genuinely because there’s still some risk involved as seen by all the trend chasing ones when the MMO craze was happening that died
I wanna live in a timeline where wow never succeeded and some player driven game like eve blew up and became the template
Yes. They used to be a good place for you to meet up and socialize online and meet new people. Now mmo's are just full of sweaty tryhard minmaxxing nerds
MMOs died because WoW completely altered the perception of what a 'successful' MMO looks like and companies stopped trying once WoW levels of popularity didn't immediately occur.
The current popular non-WoW MMOs have significantly more active players than shit like Everquest or SWG or DAoC had in the early 2000s and yet everyone thinks they're all barely hanging on because we've been conditioned to think of anything less than WotLK-era WoW numbers as utter failure.
Hell, FFXI, a game which came out before most posters on this board were born, still has around 100k active players which is more than enough to keep it going and keep a small drip of new content coming out.
I see people unironically calling some coop games dead because they don't have 50k people playing at all time.
Depending on the game something as low as 500 players can be fine as long as its sustained. People are fricking moronic
Min-maxers killed them.
Used to be able to trial and error shit with a group back in the day which was fun, but now days you need to basically do homework and know every encounter in an instance before going or you get flamed.
Managed to get 5 friends together to play a few MMOs, trying to figure out the dungeons with my pals was the best time I've ever had playing them.
To be honest, I almost want random boss mechanics on dungeon reset in MMOs at this point to force min maxers to quit being suck homosexuals.
>To be honest, I almost want random boss mechanics on dungeon reset in MMOs at this point to force min maxers to quit being suck homosexuals.
it wouldn't work, it'd just triple the amount of homework you'd be expected to do before fighting the boss. Or an addon would get made that automatically datamines the boss as you fight it and tells you what you need to do.
Deadly Boss Mods type shit was another one of the worst things to ever happen to MMOs, bosses had to get needlessly complicated because everyone had giant flashing warning for the more simple mechanics.
Blue Protocol is out in 2 days and it WILL save the genre
They didn't. The only thing changed is that you've outgrown unrealistic fantasy of an mmo and now see systems behind a game.
MMOs turned from a friendly social space online into a place where people who have competitive mindsets but no actual accomplishments to speak of in real life, go to accomplish things so they can feel they have a superior status over other people
status seeking dooms all MMOs into irrelevance since even the most 'egalitarian' MMOs will put in something to let people show their superiority over others, even if its entirely cosmetic
>proc
>cash shop
>progging
>parse
>raiding
More than anything, I hate this stupid jargon that mmo players invent to make themselves sound smarter
It was normalized by WoW and once people got tired of the flashy keys they moved onto the next big thing, which was MOBAs, and then they moved on from MOBAs to BRs. Catering to normalgays is always a poor long-term plan.
The problem with MMOs is the same problem with every live service game: you need constant, high-quality updates or people frick off, and producing that shit is expensive for something you plan to have people pay $60 as an initial buy in followed by $15/month service fee.
Because WoW and Final Fantasy suck up all the players.
People used MMOs as a social space. People these days get that through social media and forums more than they did back in the day. Kids are also more antisocial these days and don't like interacting much.
Pax Dei is coming out. Pax Dei will save the MMOs.
I only really liked FFXI because it wasn't a bugman game. It was designed for a controller and had the camera behind the player, it wasn't this isometric garbage where there's 200 icons at the bottom of the screen each bound to a hotkey, making your character look like a jaggy ant.
But my experience with FFXI lead me to believe MMOs were somewhere between Minecraft and Monster Hunter, with gameplay like an open world JRPG where you control a single party member. These qualities are pretty popular. They should be popular together, too. But WoW solidified that MMOs are just RTSs for morons. At that point, why not just play a MOBA? You're not going to get immersed in a bugman game, you're only going to care about PvP and spamming skills at bosses.
MMOs were technologically advanced for its time, now it's the complete opposite. People would rather play a well-polished game with a small group of friends instead of watered down shit that also takes a while for it to get good.
>MMOs back them
>hundreds of players fighting on one map
>FPS back them
>128 vs 128 maps
>MMOs now
>server crashes if 20 players meet outside an instanced area
>FPS now
>6 vs 6
I blame consoles and probably the israelites too, just to be on the safer side.
MMOs have this gameplay concept that you're playing one game until level cap, and then playing another game AT that cap. It ended up being easier to develop solid single player experiences and doing multi-player that didn't fundamentally require a giant time sink and connecting with people you can actually tolerate because your friends have other shit to do.
post the kino poorgay MMOs you played because you couldn't afford WoW
right here homie, good old russian wow
I always thought their version of the warlock was cooler, and I love how every race gets their own title for the generic classes (elves were demonologists, the undead dudes were savants and the evil humans were defilers)
Like all other mmos, it is now lost in the swamp of P2actuallykeepup
More or less my highschool game. I miss that era dearly.
I have an easy fricking answer.
MMOs aren't special anymore because literally every game is online nowadays. We don't have to put up with mashing shit on a GCD and wautubg for rare spawns.
Lack of community building.
The people who run the fricking things don't have any talent or a personality to speak of. Everyone at Blizzard who had a drop of fricking savvy left ages ago. It's a social game run by asocial people, straight into the ground.
MMOs kill the players (mind, body, and soul.)
They are degeneration accelerants, similar to hard drugs, except without the hedonistic peaks that these provide.
Oh, and of course: They do the same to the developers. The audience shapes the producer and vice versa.
Ironically, they are a good filter for when the time of destiny comes.
MMOs get data mined and solved within days of release and all people do is pick the strongest meta class, blaze through earlygame as quickly as possible so they can consume whatever endgame content there is before going on reddit and complaining about there not being enough content.
>MMOs get data mined and solved within days of release
Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden would like a word with you.
I don't talk to ghosts because I am not a schizo.
I miss and don't miss mmos at the same time.
Good fricking riddance to those colossal time sinks. But at the same time they've probably been some of the most satisfying experiences imo. Those epic journeys as your character grows and competes or clashes with other player's characters and their investments. I miss things like your character growing a history, reputation and lore through the social dynamics. Nothing quite seems to hit that spot.
because MMO's thrive off of an extremely small niche of highly autismal players, but dev costs have ballooned so high on these they need to target whales and normies or they can't sustain themselves. Which means they all become fads rather than anything with staying power
I legit don't understand how my roommate is constantly subbed to XIV. I just log in for the new shit. At least it keeps the house from getting lost.
The better question is
Why didn't it die sooner?
The prospect of a game generating a monthly income by subscription fees.
A lot of WoW knockoffs and "killers" had to switch to f2p to save some face and income.
All MMOs suffer from outdated gameplay and since WoW came around the corner the copycats aren't even trying to be creative anymore.
>Why did MMORPG die as a genre?
MMOs are hard to develop. a single mobile game with microtransactions is cheaper and easier to produce and can generate higher profit margins than MMOs.
another factor is that MMORPGs have low dopamine/hour rate so most players moved on to other online games.
doesn't help that MMOs are jack of all trades master of none. mediocre pvp, gameplay, artstyle, graphics, story, progression, etc with microtransactions, time sinks, RNG and RMT mashed into a game
I don't get why devs/publishers don't just make MMOs that are designed with enough content to last 1-2 months instead of making these content drip feed 'forever games' that nobody likes anymore.
They could just sell it as a regular game and put it in maintenance mode once the FotM is over, maybe even revive it every couple of years later with paid DLC.
>the only good post in this thread
I still cant believe blizzard decided to keep milking wow when they could have just go full israelite with HS and OW
>wikis
>the entire game becoming focused around raids, with giga-autist nolifers who will get buttmad if you don't play your character in the most optimal way possible
>lack of innovation or originality
Honestly, more games should have taken notes from Runescape
>crafting that tries to emulate how things are actually made IRL
>increased options for interacting with objects, leading to greater variety of quests.
>no main story, just individual questlines with their own self-contained stories
>world that is open but not empty
I still play ragnarok online from time to time. (official servers) and I regret nothing.
People will hate me for telling the truth, but the heart of the matter is that MMOs used to be a safe social space for maladjusted nerds for use while they engaged in their hobby.
It is no longer that due to 15 years or so of sanitization and ever increasing accessibility and mass casualization of the genre, to the point where it is now mostly just doing chores with people you probably hate. It used to be that when you logged onto an mmo, you were (virtually) surrounded by people with tastes and interests very similar to your own and engaging in a game you actually enjoyed, now it is just any other form of socialization but you have to suffer through increasingly cancerous Games-as-a-service bullshit.
>and mass casualization of the genre
modern MMOs are far harder than boomerslop
>Games-as-a-service bullshit
MMOs were always games-as-service you fricking tard
what you're referring to as 'modern MMOs' are in fact simply put, instanced multiplayer platformers.
There are no MMOs anymore.
nice cope, too bad theyre still 100x more challenging and engaging that boomerslop MMOs
go chop trees for 200 hours
id rather chop babies like you for 200 hours
youre the one who cant keep up with harder games grandpa, learn your place
briefly standing in the fire when the addon tells to you is not hard little moronbro
if its not hard why are boomers incapable of doing it?
it's not just boomers little moronbro
its entirely boomers that cant handle real games
people under 30 arent trying to play dogshit like EQ
>real games
zoomers dont play games, they crutch on addons and view everything in parse numbers, and don't comprehend real raid cohesion at all
also, there are just as many tardzooms such as yourself that can't do something as simple as stand in the fire briefly as there are tardboomers. get your dick out of your ass
Probably one of the more smarter things SEGA is doing with NGS right now. Give everyone their own free space. Obviously, they can sell decent parts for Real life Money, but that the price for having a free home instance that allow the owner to have up to 100 players visiting the place.
Gacha stole the "log in everyday to grind" insects
Mobas and team shooters stole the casual players that just want to chill with their friends
Social Media stole the roleplayers who want to live in a virtual world
Hardcore raiders are irrelevant and can't sustain a game by themselves
>play this game that needs a monthly fee
>still have to pay for new content
>at some point you NEED to team up with others to complete something (this was cool in the past, but people just SUCK nowadays especially zoomers)
>Guild drama, loot drama, DRAMA because you don't agree with moron in global chat
>play with people that have a legit learning disability (I've seen people play wow for years...longer than me, a 9 year player and they're still bad)
I'm glad I stopped at WoW classic and never looked back
MMOlites are the future of the genre, games like Destiny 2, Warframe. Shit like that. But we need a better leveling system like the old MMOs. I miss the grind, let me grind levels out in an MMOlite with Trickster/Ragnarok Online's loot system and it will be good in my book
nope. you get level caps and item levels and you will like it
Everyone got tired of WoW and there just aren't any other MMOs that even come close.
i just hope some big company wastes money trying to make a pvp full loot mmo to prove all the carebears that this is what makes mmos interesting and engaging.
Wasn't that what New World was until everyone who tried the full loot pvp in the alpha started complaining about it?
new world was basically a survival game like rust/ark, they only switched to becoming a mmo midway because they were chasing trends. They never properly designed that game to be a MMO from the beginning.
turns out people don't like losing time invested
WoW and FFXIV tards came into the alpha and they couldn't comprehend a game that wasn't a WoW-clone so they spewed their garbage complaints and the devs turned the game into a literal piece of shit because of it. It's a sad story.
This, but also it's Amazon so chances are they would have changed it anyway if it meant even a 1% improvement in profits.
Turns out themepark players are defeatists. They can't picture themselves winning a PvP fight so they rather hunt some more boars and do a raid or whatever. They are choosing to be losers in both worlds.
rich cope from pvp mmo players who 9/10 are dogshit in actual pvp games
carebear spotted
lmao there's the buzzword. I mained musket in new world and boomers would send me angry private messages accusing me of hacking just because I had some FPS experience. MMO PvP attracts the worst casual elitists who think they want to be competitive until they face someone of equal or better skill, then they run away or try and get their friends to gang up on them.
MMO PvP is supposed to be unfair, that's the appeal
Sure, it just happens to be that the people who think they're going to farm other players are actually the ones who get farmed and silently quit the game in embarrassment.
Not when I switch to my alt and call my buddies.
I lost hundreds of PvP encounters but I still remember the first time I killed a player and took their stuff. Safe PvE MMOs will never give you that experience because absolutely nothing matters in these games.
Eventually you play because the PvP is fun.
I refuse to get good at a purely mechanical skill like aiming in an MMORPG, if I wanted to aim I'd play an FPS.
Meant for
WoW official hardcore servers will change the paradigm. Once again WoW will prove to be the industry leader in this genre.
Nobody really likes hardcore WoW though, it's actually a real case of "you think you do but you don't", nothing but empty twitch streamer generated hype that will die off in a week once people lose their first character.
If Blizzard release a Hardcore servers were the one real change is the inability to resurrect, the game will be doomed. The amount of griefing and exploiting that will happen will put phase 2 of Classic WoW to shame.
I hate how my MMO of choice has added a series pass that forces me to do PvP
Urrrrrrrrrgh... I don't even want to touch the daily PvP roulette...
pvp has always had pvp exclusive rewards
this has not changed w/ the season pass. All it means is now you don't have to perform well to get your rewards.
theres too many games. and all the pillars of the MMO genre are over 10 years old.
Sandbox PvP MMO > Themepark trash
MMOs were originally for the gamer/DND geek dad crowd.
That was always the core audience in the west. When that failed and the neet power gamer came in, the structure crumbled and the rest of the human refuse followed such as trannies and the like.
We are not getting another golden age of MMOs until they truly become a niche just for bored white nerdy dads again.
>real PvP MMORPGs has never been tried!
Truly the communism of genres.
It's actually true though, PvP MMOs are all either really old or janky indie/kickstarter garbage without ambition.
Star Citizen
A barely functional kickstarter scam still in alpha, what about it?
Just pointing out the worst scam PvP MMO ever made.
World of Warcraft. No other MMO comes close, and most of those that quit WoW, quit MMOs for good, or eventually relapsed.
There hasn't been anything to beat it and take the MMO genre further.
Everyone still tries to copy it to this day.
>They require a lot of resources and investment, not just to make it, but also maintaining a pipeline of content
>Other games and genres have done the live service shit, but better and more consistent
>MMOs were never that popular until WoW, they didn't die, they're just back to being a niche again, now that WoW has been shitting the bed for over 10 years
>Social media and explosion of the internet means you don't need to play an MMO to have social interaction online anymore
>Most MMOs require a large time investment, and some MMOs require monthly fees
Because the internet is full of normies now.
>MMO
>forty hours of shitty fetch quests and spamming AoE skills to kill twenty mobs at once until you're max level and can raidlog once a week while you pray for a gear drop that will be meaningless within a month
VS
>normal, non-shit game
>turn on game, instantly matched with other players, instantly having fun
That's why. It's a garbage genre that was completely ruined by dipshit players who just want a skinnerbox they can mindlessly click while they watch netflix, and moron devs who refuse to evolve MMOs in any meaningful way.
>game theory
OP frick you for watching that I'd slap the b***h out of you if I met you
MMOs peaked with Club Penguin.
When you peak there's nowhere to go but down.
>Disney own Club Penguin, a meme chat mmo
>and own Pixie Hollow, mmo for little girls
>and Toon Town, mmo for kids
>and Marvel Online, for Marvelgays
>and Pirates of the Caribbean Online, for Pirategays
>Disney kill them all
I hate the mouse so much. FREE FRICKING MONEY AND THEY STILL KILL THEM REACHING ALL DEMOGRAPHIC.
You forgot one.
VMK, the Virtual Magic Kingdom.
Because people woke up and realize that MMOs aren't fun. They are a grind, you play one, you play them all. The chase for loot, the social aspect, it all died. The new generation doesn't care about socializing in the same way that the older generation did. So even if you start to talk about something, there is no connection. The 30-40 year old talking with the 15-20 year old aren't going to have anything in common. The MMO was always a trashfire, a flash in the pan. It was only ever going to work because it was the frontier of the internet and it was the new kid on the block. Once almost any game could be online, the need for the MMO died.
>ywn play korean 2d MMOs in the 2000s ever again
gunbound was an mmo? i dont think so..
everybody grew up and no longer had the time to grind that shit. zoomers don't have the patience due to all the instant gratification they're exposed to.
If you want to play a good MMO in (present day), just come play the ones in Minecraft.
We got like.. 4.
Too much investment
>turn console on
>find a match
>start playing
versus
>grind for months for level
>grind for more months for equipment
>needs to play religiously every day otherwise you are out of your party
In actual MMOs, before the e-sports sweats moved in, you just went out and did something and found people to do it with organically in the process
guilds were a thing but I ended up making most of my long-term friends in FFXI just hanging out in the world trying to get my AF at 2 in the morning
If your group is that strict that you literally have to play every day to keep up, either:
>The game is shit
>Your party group is a bunch of speed addicts who want to "experience" the content as fast as possible, burn out, and leave until next patch instead of enjoy it at a healthy pace
or
>Both
it is a mystery
>Why did MMORPG die as a genre?
World of Warcraft is the step backwards in the MMO genre.
A good MMO must be a sandbox, and it must be primarily PVP based. And PVP must be spontaneous, players must fight OVER something, not just fight because it's funney.
It provides UNIQUE experience, that no other genre can provide.
Theme park PVE based MMOs are just bad imho. Provides worse experience than a regular game.
Skyrim is better than TESO, SWKTOR is way better than SWTOR.
EVE is an interesting and unique experience, Genshin is just a money grab
social media is the new mmo. mmos were really only big before social media took off
I don't want to raid
Koreans are too greedy
>P2W and huge cash shops leading to game killing decisions such as power creep and constant new classes so people keep spending money on more characters which ruins balance or paying for a swimsuit so you can swim 200% faster
Westerners are too prudish and obstinate
>afraid of sex appeal and unwilling to deviate from the status quo leading to poor decisions such as generally ugly characters that don't stand out and boring outfits, bad gameplay that mimics 20 year old mechanics with very minimal innovation involved and general jankiness
We can never go back
I still dick around in MMOs.
OSRS is permanent sub because it's actually great and social.
Then Classic WoW era was fun for abit.
I always come back to LOTRO every now and then because its kino lore and RPG experience. It also has a LOT of optional side grinds with rewards that are worthwhile.
MMOs are alive. It's just that I am dead inside....
Blue Protocol's finally releasing in 2 days. You people ought to have a nice day already.
JP only. You think I can download it with a VPN and just play without it after?
as long as DFO lives MMOs will never die
i get bored at 60ish, have no idea how people stomach the game
Official DFO or pserver?
DFO was really fun through mid game. It became a stamina wall...
Has anything changed?
dfo pservers are literal scams, do not trust them
and I would advise against trying to burn all your stamina, once you get more than three characters it becomes too much of a chore
>Make Bug Mage for the boosting event
>Somehow has multiple builds including auto-chase, cubeless, cube, etc
MMOs with multiple dalies and weeklies are always dogshit
pic related
Because they haven't evolved. Look what happened to ESO. It's just statistics, number pools, and weird percentile mechanics rather than raw player skill. PvE gays also ruined everything.
The only good MMO-like strategy would be like Ark or Conan. Everything else is catering toward Koreans, I.E. the cancer of online gaming formulae.
>bro what if going into some gay Black person's teamspeak was required to actually play the gamee
this + insane grindwalls killed mmos
Let me know when shit gets to the point its like Sword Art Online becomes a real kind of game.
10-20 years, bearer of the 81818.
I say dying. It takes a lot of time to create and often lower graphics, lower quality, and or simplistic gameplay compared to other games. Competition, other game genres that have live services) has grown with every game having a battle pass and or in game store taking more time and money from players.
>Frog
His post was invalidated before he typed anything at all. Wojaks, Pepes, and Apus are shitposting icons that border on avatargayging.
Post your timeline
Tibia->Ragnarok Online->WoW (Vanilla-Wrath)->FFXIV
no need to tell us you're a troony now
OSRS>Guild Wars 1 > Guild Wars 2 (I FRICKING REGRET SPENDING TIME HERE) > TERA > SWGEmu > Champions Online > too many old private servers mmo > PSO2 > NGS
>Guild Wars 2 (I FRICKING REGRET SPENDING TIME HERE)
explain, i just started
Imagine watching something you love (GW1) get transformed, raped, and defiled to a joke of a game that is GW 2 by people that didn't play GW1 and inject their SJW and troony fetishes. The game itself is lacking in all department. I left when WvW was a sad pathetic version of itself, world boss is just a giant pinata, you get jack shit as a reward for attending anything other than Fractals, I heard Raid is abandon, PvP is botted, etc. Story is a giant shit tard. I think this video explain it better just for Cantha alone.
RO > WoW > maple > bunch of RO servers > FFXIV > back to maple
MU Online > WoW (TBC - Wrath) > SWTOR > try some MMOs but get bored in a week every time > Genshin
Everquest Online Adventures > Final Fantasy 11 > Star Wars Galaxies > Dark Age of Camelot > Planetside / Everquest 2 / City of Heroes / Guild Wars > World of Warcraft (2004) > Burning Crusade > Vanguard / Lord of the Rings Online > Warhammer Online > Wrath of the Lich King > Darkfall / Mortal Online > Cataclysm > RIFT / SWTOR > Pandaria / Guild Wars 2 > Draenor > Elder Scrolls Online / Final Fantasy 14 > Legion > Black Desert Online > World of Warcraft: Classic > Project 1999 (classic Everquest)
I feel bad for all the zoomers who missed out on the golden age of MMO's.
Because very few people actually liked the full MMO experience.
Most people just liked some part of it and can find a game that specializes in that one part instead of being mediocre at all of them.
>like team PvP? go play a dedicated PvP game, like MOBAs or some shit
>like exploring? go play a dedicated open world game, like Genshin or some shit
>like raiding? go play a bossfighting game, like Monster Hunter or some shit
>like loregayging? go play some 2deep4u backstory game, like Elden Ring
>>like exploring? go play Genshin
Genshin is a gacha hell grinding simulator that shoves itself into an open world, not an actual open world exploration game.
Meme answer.
The grind is what people do when they run out of current content, of which there are like 100 hours.
Too little free time. Most people work too much to invest in an MMO. If you little time for vidya, you have to pick and choose which games you play. Even most hardcore gamers are casual in playtime hours because of this harsh reality. Only NEETs can pull off keeping up.
Sadly they are still around and still played.
It's the only genre of games I genuinely want dead.
>Level cap after playing for only a month
>Rest of the game is just minmaxing for raid-like content
Why did this shit become so prominent? I watched anime about MMOs and I literally thought these games were about endless growth and exploration of environments. I didn't know you reached the end of incremental growth quickly and most of the content is just bosses.
No modern MMO knows how to make a leveling experience. They try to make theme parks, and theme parks are horrendously boring because they only work if you play solo. There is no group theme park MMO.
Modern MMOs are designed so you can't hit the max level of power by ignoring all the difficult content in favor of grinding boars for 1000 hours, max level is just the end of the tutorial. Real MMOs will never function like muh anime outside the first couple months when people don't have the tools to cheat past the early content.
No feeling of server community, what sense of community there is in general is dictated by streamer culture, game min maxed and sold before release by 20 different WHATS UP GUYS YouTubers, the secondary function of being a place to meet with and chat with like minded people has been obliterated by streaming/discord culture, the true endgame of all mmos the cosmetics is undercut by modern business practises, paying real money for official or unofficial services ruined the suspension of disbelief that the game was an great equaliser and everyone you meet was on a similar adventure to you with all the same tools available to you.
MMOs died because the internet died. We're living on the dead internet, and ghosts can't play MMOs
Why don't they make MMO arena battle where people fight in a map but they need to buy/mix and match their equipments first a la Counter Strike.
I remember playing RYL arena/battleground which was like that and it was mighty fun.
mmo players are just insufferable autistic c**ts
ffxiv are fake nice and then psycho morons when pressed
wow players all think they are gods and cant be humble ; doubly for classic players.
just a bunch of miserable sod.
If you arent playing with some cute girls there is litterally no reason to be paying per month