Hardcoregays killed RTS. Most RTS players were in it for the fun, the whacky modes, the casual multiplayer. Instead of listening to their playerbase, devs preferred to listen to an extreme minority who attend tournaments and prefer ranked modes.
CBA and Dota made AoE2 and WC3 popular, along being being able to make your maps and game modes instead of relying on DLC. The first RTS that caters to regular gamers instead of tryhards will be popular again.
Casuals went to MOBAs because they're casual friendly, devs ignored casual gamers and they lost a big audience.
Most sold games are shooters and you wouldn't find game with more hardcore gays then shooters. But shooters are properly designed games without artificial difficulty.
Also classic arena shooter games died because people in general feel that team based modes and emergent, chaotic situations with fast TTK are more satisfying, because then they can blame team or bad luck for their own performance.
Most hardcoregays will be where most players are regardless of the genre. >artificial difficulty
That only applies to singleplayer. RTSs with casual map modes drew in tons of players.
RTS killed RTS
casuals didnt play RTS games in the first place outside of classics and RTS devs refused to innovate
why yes give me another aoe2 clone thank you for pushing the boundaries of this genre
it doesnt help the studios for rts's hemorrhaged their talent the quickest so they cant even make a functional aoe2 clone even if they wanted to
>casuals didnt play RTS games
pic rel
Many such cases in other genres too. Back in the day Everquest sacrificed majority of it's playerbase to placate the hardcore minority too, only for that hardcore minority to not actually sustain it.
Esports have been one of the biggest hits to gaming in the last decade. Devs putting the cart before the horse.
Why were that last 6% even taking this survey in the first place?
It's like those people who come into a Ganker thread just to loudly announce they refuse to play the game.
lol the number one complaint in popular shooters is usually skill based matchmaking or the tryhards polluting the game like in Fortnite. The players became so good at building that casuals stood zero chance against them, the devs had to introduce the no build mode so they could still have some fun.
Many such cases in other genres too. Back in the day Everquest sacrificed majority of it's playerbase to placate the hardcore minority too, only for that hardcore minority to not actually sustain it.
Good bombastic solo campaign
Simple intuitive interface*
Functional "coop" for player armies to take on bots
Very easy-to-use Map/Mod tools to make custom content
Online browser system that allows for easy sorting through such custom content, none of this competitive matchmaking bullshit
*By far the biggest issue, RTS games became a fricking mess as we passed the turn of the century and more features were just slapped on to the legacy interface as opposed to being refined. Even the recent wave of indie RTS games have such a fricking mess of a UI with dozens of little buttons, sub-menus, and every individual unit having an array of special abilities you can only see/use by selecting them as in independent set. Shit's a fricking noisy mess and not fun.
the biggest issue for RTS is that fact that the genre got on such a high level of polish. You can make a shitty action rpg Zelda like with shitty puzzles, no dedicated jump button, 10 enemy types, broken weapons, local coop without any netcode etc. and still get praise
If you make a RTS people expect a campaign and multiple factions and skimirsh (ai) that works on 20 different maps. online pvp, replays, common key commands, formations, unit stances, control queueing, proper pathfinding, basic unit ai, faction balance while every faction being unique.
Also don't forget about modding tools, random map generation, ranked ladder, chat, spectator.
Not exactly the issue. Let's look at Starcraft 2. The issue centers around 2 things with custom games; the galaxy editor is too complicated to the point where you could go learn programming instead, compared to wc3's old editor; and it was too hard to find an open lobby full of people to play custom games. Sure you could argue the latter is symptomatic of hardcore players, but that is more about cost cutting for online infrastructure.
>Remember when you would get on wc3 and half the dota lobbies would be empty?
If they were full or playing, they wouldn't be on the server browser, genius
Ah yes a lobby that is ran by a bot is so good for the health of custom games when half of them were open for more than a day but were sent on endless auto refresh. Truly doing the community a service by pushing out smaller p2p custom games.
MOBAs are literally purely competitive focused. Winning and your Rank are the only thing that matters and wacky modes are completely ignored. You're a moron.
Dude, a lot of AoE II's structure was balanced around input from AoE I's competitive scene of the time. If anything the real answer is that these kinds of games did best when they actually catered to a good variety of people.
Basically this, the Warcraft custom games scene was always far bigger than the competitive side of things even if I've always enjoyed that. They turned RTS in to an e-sport then got confused when casuals and people that want to play games purely for fun dropped out.
This, sort off. I got out of rts and into turn based strategy. My old man reflexes can't keep up with having to press a dozen macros and shortcuts every second.
>>BFME 3 when?
You're joking right? The first two games were pulled because of licensing issues. You can only get them by pirating or finding the original game DVDs. There's no chance in hell they're going to make a third one.
>Hardcoregays killed RTS >CBA and Dota made AoE2 and WC3
You say this, but why are you casual homosexuals who play these custom games are always the biggest butt hurt sore losers who rages at teammates for playing incorrectly? Moba itself literally became a fricking esport from hardcore custom games homosexuals.
/thread
Blizzard did to RTS what WoW did to MMOs. Everyone copied them and tried to make it this hyper autistic micro focused bullshit that only neet koreans enjoyed
Because 1 player controlling 1 unit is more natural and effective than 1 player controlling 50 units. 1 players controlling 50 first of all is fighting control interface not opponent and that is no fun artificial difficulty.
RTS killed RTS
casuals didnt play RTS games in the first place outside of classics and RTS devs refused to innovate
why yes give me another aoe2 clone thank you for pushing the boundaries of this genre
it doesnt help the studios for rts's hemorrhaged their talent the quickest so they cant even make a functional aoe2 clone even if they wanted to
>RTS devs refused to innovate
Define "innovate". Because from my limited RTS knowledge there's plenty of innovation in the genre. Tooth and Tail, Planetary Annihilation, Achron, Gray Goo, even C&C Rivals all innovate on the core ideas of RTS, the same way that Halo, TF2, Ultrakill, SuperHot, i'd even add Splatoon in here, and the rest of the shooty genre innovate on the core ideas of shooty games. So I'd really like to see your opinion on why innovation doesn't count as innovation.
They don't innovate enough. You are still expected to move each unit individually or with antiquated control groups. It's still all about micro. The core concept of RTS is refusing to change because the devs convinced themselves that a paddle is the only correct way to move a boat.
>You are still expected to move each unit individually or with antiquated control groups. It's still all about micro
Most innovative RTS is Total War.
Units move as groups and there is pause to cool down micro overload...
most innovative RTS was Battleforge.
(Coop-) Campaign with unlockable content
Units could be spawned where you needed them
Simple ressource system
pvp was simple enough that you could play it on a high level without even touching your keyboard
1) by that logic FPS dont innovate because you still move and shoot.
2) the example games in my post prove you wrong. Tooth and Tail only lets you command units by type, and the only command you have is "go here, you know what to do". Planetary Annihilation allows you to set a command for production buildings that the units produced will follow as soon as they're made, like "go to the teleporter to be shipped to a different planet" where the exit teleporter will give them an order of "go to the front lines and attack everything in sight". And that's just two games from my limited catalogue of knowledge.
Literally everything plays the same as 1999 aoe2.
Imagine you could just send units to enemy base with orders to avoid long range defenses and primarily target economic units.
Instead of spamming patrol like moron because there still is no attack units in group command and your idiots will chase the one soldier till the end of the world.
If at any point my battlefield score is affected by how fast I can click and zoom-zoom camera, you funked up.
It is no longer strategy it is fps.
you are living in a made up world
in the real world Supreme Commander exists and proves you completely wrong, as do a frickload of other games.
I still can't put an order to produce 4 workers and 4 footmen per minute and be done with it. I still can't order workers to automatically place structures to match my desired production. I still can't queue my research in a desired order complete with adjustable timetables. I still can't streamline my resource spending with a single click by choosing "military buildings get priority" or "economic growth priority". I still can't drag a line across the map and watch all my current and subsequent units gather into formations and advance toward the target automatically.
>I still can't put an order to produce 4 workers and 4 footmen per minute and be done with it. >I still can't order workers to automatically place structures to match my desired production.
you can in SupCom
>I still can't drag a line across the map and watch all my current and subsequent units gather into formations and advance toward the target automatically.
sounds like a horrible strategy, but there is a game currently in development that does all of the stuff you mentioned, Heart of Muriet
7 months ago
Anonymous
I played SupCom. What you're describing is only possible with ramshackle plugins on an unofficial client, for a game that's too ancient to even properly utilize your CPU/GPU. And that's besides all the jank involving the abuse of patrol command to make things work. That game didn't go far enough either. And is way too old by now. It would at least get some points for moving in the right direction, but supcom 2 exists. >sounds like a horrible strategy
If you're fine with APM-centered gameplay you should be fine dragging that line faster and smarter than me to outplay me. Anything else would just be your nostalgia for the control group mire of AoE/Starcraft.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I played SupCom. What you're describing is only possible with ramshackle plugins on an unofficial client >unofficial client
I mean, yeah. The company is fricking dead.
Be happy there even is a client that allows you to play multiplayer and updates on the regular while being easy to install.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Oh you must be the dev. Fancy that you still post here. But we can't all just play FaF 'till the end of time, even if the effort itself is commendable.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Take your meds.
You're not making any sense.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Why would you be personally offended by me mentioning FaF in a negative light if you're not the dev? Is your ego riding on that game somehow? That's just pathetic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>personally offended
your premise is false
stop living in a made up world
7 months ago
Anonymous
What does "Be happy there even is a client that allows you to play multiplayer" mean then? Were you just having an emotional outburst? Are you a woman?
7 months ago
Anonymous
And what sort of complaints are these even? >muh patrol
How is this even something to cry about? Yeah you can give a command wherein a unit will patrol an area and engage any hostiles it finds - or if it's a worker unit it'll perform duties such as assist/repair or reclaim wherever it is needed.
You gays really just want to complain about minute details to cope with the fact that you hate playing games, huh.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Patrol command in supcom is being used for a bunch of purposes that it was clearly not intended for. You're just so conditioned to use it that you can't imagine it working any other way. If I want my units to be on standby I should be able to order them to be on standy, instead of setting them to patrol a small triangle. The other horrid example is setting engineers on convoluted patrol routes just so that they would salvage crap. SupCom is nowhere near ideal in terms of unit control. It just so happens to do it better than the other dinosaurs of the genre.
7 months ago
Anonymous
What the frick does it mean that units are on "standby"?
And what the frick would you know about it being intended? It's how it works dumbass.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I didn't realize I was talking to a person who never touched ladder. Nevermind then.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Explain what "standby" entails homosexual.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If you look up a competitive game of supcom you're going to notice that players set their units (mostly air) to move around the base in triangles. Mostly as a defensive measure but also so that they can be sent into action as quickly as possible. This is, as a concept, is moronic and shouldn't be there. A conga line of jet fighters doing rounds around pentagon is not something that would even make sense in a real situation.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>A conga line of jet fighters doing rounds around pentagon is not something that would even make sense in a real situation.
>he doesn't know
7 months ago
Anonymous
So why would you not specify that you meant air-units you moronic gorilla Black person. Do you just make up terms on the fly and expect people to know what the frick goes on in your mind? >muh realism
There also is not a armored command unit, or ACU controlling the entire military, isn't that a bit unrealistic then?
7 months ago
Anonymous
So what's so great about 200 air units patrolling a small plot of land that you're willing to defend it? Setting up that stupid patrol is a needless complication that takes away from actually playing the game, just like any other apm chore. It's there only because it's the most convenient way to keep your air force ready for combat. In a better game it would all be done automatically.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>noooo I have to command my units in an RTS I am dyyyyyying over here
You know you can give the patrol command to the factory and every unit created will do the patrol-command, right?
You don't have to do it for each individually created interceptor. You can AUTOMATE it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If you can't see how things can get better for unit control in RTS and actually think that SupCom is the absolute pinnacle then there's no point discussing this anymore.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>get better at doing the apm chore or you will lose
Not an argument. Try again.
The game gives you every tool needed to overcome the obstacles. Yet you continue to cry and piss your pants.
You are autistic.
You're obsessing over a minute detail and extrapolating it to a massive problem.
Even when confronted with the fact that you are wrong - and moronic - you insist upon it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The discussion was about RTS games as a whole and how unit control in them can be improved. You misconstrued it to be a dick measuring contest about who's better at playing SupCom. You are illiterate.
7 months ago
Anonymous
What other game has you patrolling your air-force on a small area? You goal-post moving dickslurping massive fricking homosexual.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>What other game has you patrolling your air-force on a small area?
Starcraft comes to mind. Though it's used moderately there because of the risk of eating an aoe attack. What's your point?
7 months ago
Anonymous
My point is that you're coping hard with the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on so you moved the goal-post to avoid losing face.
You're b***h-made.
And no you don't patrol your air-units in Starcraft, you blow out your wrists constantly keeping them controlled.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>And no you don't patrol your air-units in Starcraft
Yes you do if you want to keep them clumped, for whatever reason. They'd just scatter all over the place if left idle. >My point is that you're coping hard with the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on
I don't think you even understand what I'm talking about. You seem pretty confident about winning the argument though.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>winning the argument
There's that autism again.
Feel free to restate your point now that we've established you moved the goal-post.
7 months ago
Anonymous
My point is that RTS as a genre could do a lot better than "select a clump of units and control them through an esoteric combination of patrol, stop, and a+move commands". If it wants to ever regain wide appeal anyway.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Go play tower defense.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>my genre is dead and I like it that way
This cope stopped being endearing about 5 years ago. We're talking about ways RTS can move forward from where it is now (a fricking grave).
7 months ago
Anonymous
Unfortunately for you, RTS isn't as dead as you'd like it to be.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>somebody mentions that RTS are dead >no way, here's a webm of supcom (2007) >and I just played a match of starcraft 2 (2015) >somebody brings up the list of RTS released this decade that nobody ever talks about like Grey Goo >thread dies
Get real. These threads are always the exact same shit. The genre is on life support at best.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>thread dies
Yeah because Ganker is a bunch of casual shitters that don't play RTS to begin with.
RTS didn't die. It just didn't grow exponentially as other genres because RTS can't be casualized enough for a broader audience.
It's unironically a good thing that RTS never had mass-appeal.
Also you forget AoE4.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>new esportsBlack person cope arrived >R-RTS was never popular!!!!
holy shit, homosexual
you're so fricking wrong it's unbelievable
it used to be a genre sellling millions and popular with casuals and even kids
the wienerroaches like you infested the genre and it nosedived into esportroonydom appealing to tasteless homosexuals only
7 months ago
Anonymous
Wow those are some bold claims. Good thing you backed them up with facts.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>C&C1 2 million by 1997 >RA1 2 million by 1997 >AoE1 3 million by 2000 >SC 4 million by 2001
at a time when PC gaming was a literal fraction of what it is today
have a nice day, esportsBlack person
7 months ago
Anonymous
Now show sales for all RTS instead of stopping at 2001.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>argument is RTS used to be mainstream >show proof it used to be mainstream when PCs were 1% as popular as today >(you): "BU-BUH WHAT ABOUT THE TIME WHEN PCS GOT MORE POPULAR REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
my point was proven, esportsBlack person, you're grasping at straws
7 months ago
Anonymous
AOE4 sold millions
Fighting games still sell millions, SFV outsold SF2.
These genres just didn't blow up like cinematic games do
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Also you forget AoE4
That game is arguably a downgrade to base AoE2 with how little it has going for it. It definitely didn't innovate for shit. I am also half-convinced that the only discussion it ever had on Ganker was part of Microsoft's marketing campaign.
But sure let's bring up more random crap. Industrial Annihilation looks like it's going to be a nice money grabbing scam, following in the footsteps of Human Resources. Sanctuary Shattered Sun seems to be more of that too. None of these make me optimistic about playing them. And I doubt many people will.
7 months ago
Anonymous
What is it that makes MOBA gays so butthurt over RTS?
At the same time desperately seeking the approval to be considered an RTS subgenre.
>killed by MOBA that are just as old
lmao
At least we got some new games in 10 years. RTS still has a huge following that is not made up by streamer prostitutes and reliant on 2-4 games.
SC1, SC2, WC3, AoE2, AoE4, SupCom, C&C Generals, RA2, Stronghold, Universe at War, Skylords all have active playerbases
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because RTS games let you play at your own pace or turn up the heat as opposed to it being an adhd spaz feet from the gate. These people are completely incapable of just relaxing and enjoying a video game, they have to be ten bottles of monster energy down while playing lane man with fifty other things happening all around them to feel fulfilled.
7 months ago
Anonymous
None of these games were ever that popular though?
I think looking at these games as if they were initially successful but failed to retain their customer base is wrong.
Most of the RTS genre's customers are strictly singleplayer gamer, even when it come to successful esports titles like Starcraft (less than 20% of SC2 owners ever play multiplayer according to the devs). They generally don't keep playing the game after playing through the campaign and doing some skirmish. That doesn't mean they are not happpy customers! They paid money and will likely pay again if they release DLC or a sequel.
That means that optimizing a RTS for the benefit of keeping a continuos multiplayer scene means optimizing it against your main customer base (sp gamers) and therefore against financial success. This is, I think, the mistake that a lot of 2010s RTS have made and the reason that decade was such a bad time for RTS.
On the other hand, any game with a large player base that just keeps attracting new players will naturally get a large multiplayer scene as well, because some portion will always fall into that category, even when the game design doesn't explicitly caters to that mode of play.
And I am fairly optimistic about that in regards to TR. If I am reading the Steam charts correctly it already has more wishlist followers than Grey Goo ever had owners.
7 months ago
Anonymous
This is the mistake that Eugen did. They treated the SP players who were thirsting for map and scenario editors with utter contempt and tried to build an esports scene. Unfortunately only the sweatiest of sweats ever play Eugen games competitively and they have no audience. If you want a quick dive into utter madness, enable the multiplayer chat in any Eugen game. Goes to show what kind of people play them online.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Eugen are plain moronic. They fellate the ever living frick out of historical accuracy which makes games incredibly bland and invites the absolute worst of armchair generals to feel at home within the community. Act of Aggression was unironically their last good game.
7 months ago
Anonymous
People thought that there was money in developer supported e-sports. There wasn't; it was just a ZIRP phenomenon.
7 months ago
Anonymous
And you don't have to do shit.
You can have your entire air-force on the ground. Enjoy eating a strat-bomber.
Or learn to look at the minimap.
Or the radar.
Or you could just have a nice day.
moron ape.
What exactly are you complaining about again?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>get better at doing the apm chore or you will lose
Not an argument. Try again.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Furthermore we're arriving at the crux of the issue.
You don't like playing RTS.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Took you long enough to read the OP I guess. Nobody likes playing RTS anymore which is the sole reason we're having this thread.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I like playing RTS.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I know you're sucking air through your teeth right now thinking this is somehow a retort.
You should seriously consider suicide Black person.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If you can't hold a meaningful discussion you should just shut the frick up. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Meaningful discussion? With a moron like (you)?
You just want to complain about non-existent issues. When these "issues" are pointed out to be figments of your imagination you start crying and moaning like a homosexual.
Meaningful discussing. have a nice day.
7 months ago
Anonymous
One of the few improvements Eugen actually managed to make was giving you the ability to order units to either hold and defend an area or try to assault and capture it. The AI would then take over and you could focus somewhere else instead of having to babysit every single unit to set up positions. How this has not been the standard for a decade is beyond me.
7 months ago
Anonymous
you know you can still play SupCom without FAF. You don't need plugins to infinite queue or make blueprints
you can in supcom
you can do build queue in supcom
you can queue research in supcom
resources are streamlined in supcom
you can select all units and drag a line in Zero-K the fan made upgrade to supcom that also has all the features above
you are living in a made up world
7 months ago
Anonymous
Man supreme commander is so good.
The crysis of RTS.
7 months ago
Anonymous
you can in supcom
you can do build queue in supcom
you can queue research in supcom
resources are streamlined in supcom
you can select all units and drag a line in Zero-K the fan made upgrade to supcom that also has all the features above
you are living in a made up world
Literally everything plays the same as 1999 aoe2.
Imagine you could just send units to enemy base with orders to avoid long range defenses and primarily target economic units.
Instead of spamming patrol like moron because there still is no attack units in group command and your idiots will chase the one soldier till the end of the world.
If at any point my battlefield score is affected by how fast I can click and zoom-zoom camera, you funked up.
It is no longer strategy it is fps.
They innovate in wrong ways. In fact all of those are actively missing the defining rts feature map editor with script engine to make your own shit, this is the reason rts had lasting appeal and casuals played it, because it wasn't just a packaged campaign with skirmish multiplayer thrown in for the good measure, it was framework to frick around in, you know like a roblox.
>Because from my limited RTS knowledge there's plenty of innovation in the genre. Tooth and Tail, Planetary Annihilation, Achron, Gray Goo
They did not innovate enough. All of them are literally who games.
Teams to blame losses on, only one character (sometimes with secondary units as part of one character) to control with no need to pan the camera to the base to produce an army and expand resource economy, really it's a casuals' dream of an RTS where you dont need to do strategy in real time.
>game has APM as main player universal performance metric >strategy
7 months ago
Anonymous
what you want is a game with less units to control.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>>game has APM as main player universal performance metric
Which game?
what you want is a game with less units to control.
You're getting baited. If APM doesn't matter, it's not an RTS. It's like asking for an FPS where reaction time doesn't matter.
7 months ago
Anonymous
APM is the result of good play, not the cause of it. You have high APM because you're able to think quickly, if you're incapable of taking decisions your APM will drop like a brick.
7 months ago
Anonymous
There's a difference between thinking about your strategy and thinking about 200 little things you have to click in sequence within the next minute. And only one of those things realistically requires APM of 200.
In a perfect RTS your APM would have little to do with the result of the match, since a correctly picked strategy always beats an incorrect strategy. APM would only come into play when both you and your opponent are constantly adapting your strategy to each other. And that's absolutely not what happens in your average game of asiaticlick, as evidenced by all the pro scene highlights where some idiot was so preoccupied juggling his million control groups he forgot to build stealth detection.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You don't need to think in RTS lol. Just memorize the build que for your specific matchup then asiaticclick to build and finally send your amorphous blob of units to move-attack the enemy lmao.
Shit genre for brainless morons, no wonder it died. When those same asiatics tried competing in Total Warhammer multiplayer (RTT), they got destroyed by Turin who is like a B+ player at his best, simply because you can't asiaticclick your way to victory in games that have actual tactical depth which RTS trash never did and never will.
The only asiaticclick is Broodwar and that's because that game is as full of bigs as swiss cheese dropped into an ant hill.
The S in RTS stands for Strategy, it is the core of the genre. If you see an early rush, that's a strategy, if you see someone going full on economy and expansion, that's a strategy, any sort of timing attack is a strategy. Low APM ways of playing exist for most good RTS's, even StarCraft, so really you not seeing how to strategize in a strategy game genre just shows how little you actually know about the genre or the concept of strategy.
At the end of the day, your genre is still dead and you're still salty. Your two decades old standard for what an RTS should be sucks and the reality of today reflects that perfectly.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I dunno what you're talking about, I play RTS games just fine. Don't project your saltiness onto me, button masher scrublord
7 months ago
Anonymous
Oh yeah? What have you played recently? Could it be a game from a decade ago? Two decades? Tell me about how good you have it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>good games are actually bad because they're old
i accept your forefit and concession
>There is reason they are called asiaticclicker games
Lmao look at this fricking moronic zoomer. SC is called asiaticclicker since koreans were crazy about that game. Not fricking RTS genre as a whole. Fricking drink bleach stupid moronic homosexual c**t
mobas didnt kill rts, the players who werent there for the rts just didnt stick around. besides, ea killed rts more than anyone. you either took starcrafts place as the esports game, or your studio got axed. nobody could do it.
MOBA didn't kill anything. Developers killed RTS themselves while they were busy catering to micro-focused APM-morons. MOBA is just logical development of what they were trying to do from the very beginning.
People keep saying this but i don't see how mobas could kill RTS at all
Dota was more popular than other custom games in WC3 with a lot of people pirating/buying WC3 just to play dota but that's it. LoL/Dota playerbase doesn't overlap with RTS playerbase and if tomorrow LoL and Dota shut down these people won't go play Starcraft instead or something.
>People keep saying this but i don't see how mobas could kill RTS at all
it's okay zoomer, people who actually played the games can attest to that
Mowburs killed RTS and the early adopters of Mowburs were esportsBlack folk who got bored of SC
I'm sure there would still be demand for a good single player RTS/RPG hybrid. SpellForce 3 was pretty successful for being only such attempt in ages despite being pretty mediocre.
Very similar technology so if you can make one you can make the other and you have to explain your boss why you want to make the one that wont make as much money.
The only issue with this image is that casual RTSs also don't exist.
I'm currently grinding through Diamond on SC2, but also I'd love to play Cities Skylines but with combat.
The closest you can get are a tiny handful of shitty EA indie games.
>I'm currently grinding through Diamond on SC2
If you are not using map hacks like 99% of the playerbase, you are already doing it wrong.
Either play starcraft 2 and other games on lan at a tournament or don't play at all, the cheat updates itself alongside with the game bro, you will never win that fight.
RTS as a genre has a fundamental critical flaw: The optimal way to play the game is an utterly miserable experience
The macro skill cap is an order of magnitude lower than the micro skill cap
Most zoomers don't know about Warcraft 3 which was a RTS/RPG hybrid. It had the ability to create custom games you could play online which led to the creation of Dota. Dota became popular and the rest is history.
>World in Conflict >no base build order autism >in MP all comes down to using unit comps in creative ways to outwit the enemy >campaign full of soul and spectacle >ends with room for sequel >no sequel, Ubisoft throws the devs into AssCreed salt mines never to be seen again
Right about the time I gave up on this cursed genre. Eugen's attempts never came even close especially with their desperate chase for the esports golden goose on the expense of everything else.
This is the mistake that Eugen did. They treated the SP players who were thirsting for map and scenario editors with utter contempt and tried to build an esports scene. Unfortunately only the sweatiest of sweats ever play Eugen games competitively and they have no audience. If you want a quick dive into utter madness, enable the multiplayer chat in any Eugen game. Goes to show what kind of people play them online.
What kind of Eugene games are you even talking about?
there is Act of War/Agression which are classic RTS games and there is the Wargame series which is hardcore RTT field battle simulation
SC2 was shit and league was really appealing because dota1 never really took off as big as it could've because of blizz. So everyone was like frick it lets play this instead.
MOBAs didnt kill RTS. Competitive multiplayer did. All the appeal of RTS was in the campaign and the custom maps/campaigns. It was never in the soulless auto-matched fricking laddershit.
Because most people don't actually want to command or lead units. Might as well ask why you don't order around a squadron of fighters in Ace Combat. Or why you don't lead a platoon in Call of Duty. If that's what people really wanted the genres would evolve towards that over time.
I have some hope but it's dwindling.
If the both games linked below are shit I will kms >https://store.steampowered.com/app/2388620/DORF_RealTime_Strategic_Conflict/ >https://store.steampowered.com/app/1486920/Tempest_Rising/
The gaming industry changed, all companies went public for investor money. Investors invest to get a return, and returns require constant growth. Constant growth requires ever larger audiences year on year or greater monetization.
These are not compatible with the RTS genre, it's a niche genre.
I like how every fix people push is dumb the genre down for morons. Ganker is getting stupider by the year, even playing a guitar is seen as tryhard on Ganker.
Games are all homogenized into two to four specials, an ultimate, and some kind of lock-on or autoaim. Genres don't even matter anymore, it's just some homosexual Marvel/anime power fantasy story and autoplay mechanics with dodge and attack binary choices for fights in between cutscenes.
Anything else is considered sweaty. It's all so tiresome
Autism. You could say the same thing about literally every single kind of genre of gaming turning to total shit because of it.
>MMOS-Queue simulators for arenas and PVE content all about meta >Shooters-Hero shooter troonycore PUBG clones all about meta >RPGs-Dark Soul clones all about meta
The point being is that video games stopped being about fun and started being all about catering to a very slim minority of admittedly talented players. Not that they shouldn’t be catered to by giving them the modes they like, but this incredibly slim minority of people have managed to make the entirety of the industry all about them and take the fun and imagination out of vidya.
The generation that raised them failed them, most of the ADHD types are people that were raised by tablets or given something like a PSP before they could pronounce their own mothers name. Shit parents raise terrible children.
It’s literally all of them though man. I’m not entirely convinced it’s their parents when all of their music, shows and video games are all adhd horrorscapes. Says more about the actual creative subculture in media and what they want the zoomers to be than the kids themselves since they’re the ones making the content.
I don't think anyone would deny that certain groups of ~~*people*~~ are destroying the younger generations but it's also society/parents fault for allowing outside influences to do it unchecked. Any other culture outside of the West would non-stop riot until they stopped.
Most of this stuff comes from or caters to a Korean/Asian audience, though. Everything from the flashy coom bait character designs and colour pallet you see down to the repetitive nature of the gameplay is what is popular there by a huge margin.
how come there are next to zero RTS games that play like Warcraft?
I like small armies, hero units, feeling a lot like an RPG with map exploration and leveling up your heroes. That shit is fun. I've always had my idea for a Warcraft-like. Basically following the Warcraft 3 formula but casualizing it further, make the base-building macro part of the game heavily automated with buttons on the HUD that are always on screen. The reason for this is so the player can focus on the hero gameplay. Their attention can be pretty much entirely on exploring and fighting with their hero and small army. I think it would be a really fun game.
>make the base-building macro part of the game heavily automated with buttons on the HUD that are always on screen. The reason for this is so the player can focus on the hero gameplay
That's just Dawn of War 2. Also you should look into tactics games instead.
Why are ASShomosexualS even part of this thread. They're in decline just as much as RTS at this point. Shouldn't we be trying to figure out what killed Dota or something.
>Battlerite is released on early access >Everybody says it's good >devs rape the project and leave it to vultures >make virgin vampire game
FUVK YOU STUNLOCK STUDIOS BRING BACK BLC YOU FRICKING moronS
>everyone says its good
more like most shilled game for like half a year
[...]
lol as long as dota 2 and league is still alive that really all that matters since these devs dont know what makes a moba so great
but here is a new moba since the genre is so dead
?si=RUDBdi8iXDD0-4Y8
the amazing thing about MOBAs is that it will go offline in a year and you won't even be able to play it afterwards.
Meanwhile the RTS crowd managed to patch old games and even revived an always online game.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>you won't even be able to play it afterwards.
Untrue, HoN playerbase resurrected the game after it got closed.
Yeah so I want to make this game >BUT IS EVERYTHING NEON COLOURED AND FLASHY?
It’s a real-time strategy game >HOW MANY LANES? CAN I GO UP AND DOWN OR JUST UP?
The story involves a group of spacefaring.. >WHATS A STORY NEED GO
Kek, played that too over a decade ago. Also commandos was the breasts back in the days of my teenagehood. Now I mostly play total warhammer multiplayer.
No more total war games, or they will be made into some kind of live service game you will have to spend a shit load of money on.
This genre is too niche.
I can only think of:
Modern Russia vs Ukraine simulator:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1611600/WARNO/
WW1 simulator:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2109370/The_Great_War_Western_Front/
American Civil War simulator:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/502520/Ultimate_General_Civil_War/
Rag-tag team of former Westwood employees band together to create a new RTS:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1486920/Tempest_Rising/
Enviromental destruction, the RTS:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1604270/Broken_Arrow/
Are there any other actually good modern RTS games out there?
>crazy russian making singleplayer only rts out of vodka bottles
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2610770/Dust_Front_RTS/ >OpenRA modders remembered KKnD was a thing and larp as westwood
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2388620/DORF_RealTime_Strategic_Conflict/ >Petroglyph doing petroglyph things
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1439750/9Bit_Armies_A_Bit_Too_Far/ >Act of Generals at home
https://store.steampowered.com/app/908770/Global_Conflagration/ >some absolute madmen who loved Red Dragon naval gameplay decided to make a game out of it
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1355680/Ardent_Seas/ >yet another starcraft at home
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1605850/ZeroSpace/ >Hooded Horse continues to invest into some make believe vaporware projects
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1672320/Fragile_Existence/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1280190/Falling_Frontier/ >what if we made Battlefleet Gothic clone with discount Homeworld 2 combat and it was bland as frick
https://store.steampowered.com/app/406160/Dust_Fleet/
RTS were a thing before the success of the PS2 showed that the future of gaming is with consoles, and there was an intentional dumping down of the industry with the Wii/Xbox360/PS3 era because they wanted more "regular" people to play video games. that conditioning is still too strong today to make a game with too many moving parts really profitable.
RTS games have a huge "setup phase" at the beginning of every single match. MOBAs get right into the action, even if it is at a lower intensity than later in the game. Clearly this appealed to more people than classic RTS structure.
I'm not saying RTS were wrong or bad, but there's your answer.
depends on the game. AoE is the king of slow. Ladder matches in SupCom are actually way faster than anything MOBA meaning your average game is 10-20min
> MOBAs get right into the action
no they don't. there is always a farming phase that lasts at least 10 minutes where there is only a couple ganks.
meanwhile in high level supcom you you get 5 minutes player kills because there's always players that fight with their ACU.
true setup phases where people are playing single player only exist in older or crap RTS games.
Early game slog really should be automated out of RTS games. Let me start the game by scouting terrain and enemy bases while my workers are multiplying by themselves.
Same reason arena FPS died around 2006. Because companies started pushing leet pro epic gamur comp no fun allowed and so their modder/fun scenes died. Base building and custom maps/modding were delet in favor of asiaticclick shit.
>Same reason arena FPS died around 2006. Because companies started pushing leet pro epic gamur comp no fun allowed and so their modder/fun scenes died.
Well surely then it's just a matter of making a new arena shooter since the market is so underserved ACK
no because your basedcorps make another leet epic competitive shooter catering to a top 0.00005% that doesnt exist, that no one wants instead of a moddable fun game
The only new RTS I'm looking forward to is DORF, it's the only one with actual artstyle. They aren't just straight copying old RTS, the economy is more involved as the resources need to be transported to the factories I think. Zerospace is too SC2, same with Stormgate, Tempest rising is too blatant in ripping off C&C and the demos they released showed that the pathfinding isn't that good.
No, looks like Starcraft 2, which is one of the most bland (aesthetic wise) games of all times. I also cringe at anything Starcraft related these days. Frick Starcraft.
The golden days of MP (when we had wargame general with 200 pages long how to play guide) are the past. I doubt you will able to play MP without suffering. It has no matchmaking and people who currently play game don't want to waste their time against noobs. You most likely will be kicked out of games
The golden days of MP (when we had wargame general with 200 pages long how to play guide) are the past. I doubt you will able to play MP without suffering. It has no matchmaking and people who currently play game don't want to waste their time against noobs. You most likely will be kicked out of games
Hardcoregays killed RTS. Most RTS players were in it for the fun, the whacky modes, the casual multiplayer. Instead of listening to their playerbase, devs preferred to listen to an extreme minority who attend tournaments and prefer ranked modes.
CBA and Dota made AoE2 and WC3 popular, along being being able to make your maps and game modes instead of relying on DLC. The first RTS that caters to regular gamers instead of tryhards will be popular again.
Casuals went to MOBAs because they're casual friendly, devs ignored casual gamers and they lost a big audience.
Most sold games are shooters and you wouldn't find game with more hardcore gays then shooters. But shooters are properly designed games without artificial difficulty.
Based shooter studs dunkin on RTS and MOBA gays since 1993.
Shooters cater to casuals more than almost everything else, remind me the last shooter that came out without autoaim baked with it
Shooters perfectly serve every type of the player. That is the point.
Also classic arena shooter games died because people in general feel that team based modes and emergent, chaotic situations with fast TTK are more satisfying, because then they can blame team or bad luck for their own performance.
but arena shooters have team based modes, are chaotic, and i die fast therefore TTK is fast. How are Arena Shooters not satisfying to these people?
counter strike 2
Most hardcoregays will be where most players are regardless of the genre.
>artificial difficulty
That only applies to singleplayer. RTSs with casual map modes drew in tons of players.
>casuals didnt play RTS games
pic rel
Esports have been one of the biggest hits to gaming in the last decade. Devs putting the cart before the horse.
Why were that last 6% even taking this survey in the first place?
It's like those people who come into a Ganker thread just to loudly announce they refuse to play the game.
All shooters have auto aim and RNG bullet spread
lol the number one complaint in popular shooters is usually skill based matchmaking or the tryhards polluting the game like in Fortnite. The players became so good at building that casuals stood zero chance against them, the devs had to introduce the no build mode so they could still have some fun.
Many such cases in other genres too. Back in the day Everquest sacrificed majority of it's playerbase to placate the hardcore minority too, only for that hardcore minority to not actually sustain it.
This stupid fricking post again, what is the casualgay playerbase missing, exactly?
See the post you quoted, what RTS has a map editor that allows for CBA or Dota nowadays?
Good bombastic solo campaign
Simple intuitive interface*
Functional "coop" for player armies to take on bots
Very easy-to-use Map/Mod tools to make custom content
Online browser system that allows for easy sorting through such custom content, none of this competitive matchmaking bullshit
*By far the biggest issue, RTS games became a fricking mess as we passed the turn of the century and more features were just slapped on to the legacy interface as opposed to being refined. Even the recent wave of indie RTS games have such a fricking mess of a UI with dozens of little buttons, sub-menus, and every individual unit having an array of special abilities you can only see/use by selecting them as in independent set. Shit's a fricking noisy mess and not fun.
the biggest issue for RTS is that fact that the genre got on such a high level of polish. You can make a shitty action rpg Zelda like with shitty puzzles, no dedicated jump button, 10 enemy types, broken weapons, local coop without any netcode etc. and still get praise
If you make a RTS people expect a campaign and multiple factions and skimirsh (ai) that works on 20 different maps. online pvp, replays, common key commands, formations, unit stances, control queueing, proper pathfinding, basic unit ai, faction balance while every faction being unique.
Also don't forget about modding tools, random map generation, ranked ladder, chat, spectator.
Don't forget that on top of all that they want it to look amazing too.
Devs killing their games by catering to a tiny minority of tryhards seems to be a perennial issue.
Not exactly the issue. Let's look at Starcraft 2. The issue centers around 2 things with custom games; the galaxy editor is too complicated to the point where you could go learn programming instead, compared to wc3's old editor; and it was too hard to find an open lobby full of people to play custom games. Sure you could argue the latter is symptomatic of hardcore players, but that is more about cost cutting for online infrastructure.
>CBA and Dota made AoE2 and WC3 popular
Dota really was a blight on wc3... Remember when you would get on wc3 and half the dota lobbies would be empty?
>Remember when you would get on wc3 and half the dota lobbies would be empty?
If they were full or playing, they wouldn't be on the server browser, genius
Ah yes a lobby that is ran by a bot is so good for the health of custom games when half of them were open for more than a day but were sent on endless auto refresh. Truly doing the community a service by pushing out smaller p2p custom games.
They'd still clog up the entire lobby-browser bot-apologist.
If this post was made about any other genre, Ganker would laugh the poster out of the room.
Nah. Anti-multyplayer, anti-pvp, anti-skill posts/threads are very popular here. You can find those creatures even in fighting games threads.
MOBAs are literally purely competitive focused. Winning and your Rank are the only thing that matters and wacky modes are completely ignored. You're a moron.
It's why I still find DoW fun but AoE2 feels boring and extremely sanitized to me.
i just want to watch things blow up without esports homosexualry and sweatlords ruining my fun
Pretty sure compstomps are still a thing.
How did they get the explosions so RIGHT?
This
>Want to play an RTS in 2k23
>Have to watch a 12 hour video essay on the meta build orders
>CBA
>making AoE II popular
Dude, a lot of AoE II's structure was balanced around input from AoE I's competitive scene of the time. If anything the real answer is that these kinds of games did best when they actually catered to a good variety of people.
Basically this, the Warcraft custom games scene was always far bigger than the competitive side of things even if I've always enjoyed that. They turned RTS in to an e-sport then got confused when casuals and people that want to play games purely for fun dropped out.
What do you mean everyone isn’t some horrific skinnymax bugman who wants to go round and round all day?
this, fpbp.
>coh is nearly 18 years old
I... need a moment
FPBP, anytime somebody hears about a new RTS they automatically assume its korean SC2 levels of autism and immediately lose interest.
This, sort off. I got out of rts and into turn based strategy. My old man reflexes can't keep up with having to press a dozen macros and shortcuts every second.
>The first RTS that caters to regular gamers instead of tryhards will be popular again.
BFME 3 when?
>>BFME 3 when?
You're joking right? The first two games were pulled because of licensing issues. You can only get them by pirating or finding the original game DVDs. There's no chance in hell they're going to make a third one.
>Hardcoregays killed RTS
>CBA and Dota made AoE2 and WC3
You say this, but why are you casual homosexuals who play these custom games are always the biggest butt hurt sore losers who rages at teammates for playing incorrectly? Moba itself literally became a fricking esport from hardcore custom games homosexuals.
/thread
Blizzard did to RTS what WoW did to MMOs. Everyone copied them and tried to make it this hyper autistic micro focused bullshit that only neet koreans enjoyed
Because 1 player controlling 1 unit is more natural and effective than 1 player controlling 50 units. 1 players controlling 50 first of all is fighting control interface not opponent and that is no fun artificial difficulty.
RTS killed RTS
casuals didnt play RTS games in the first place outside of classics and RTS devs refused to innovate
why yes give me another aoe2 clone thank you for pushing the boundaries of this genre
it doesnt help the studios for rts's hemorrhaged their talent the quickest so they cant even make a functional aoe2 clone even if they wanted to
>RTS devs refused to innovate
Define "innovate". Because from my limited RTS knowledge there's plenty of innovation in the genre. Tooth and Tail, Planetary Annihilation, Achron, Gray Goo, even C&C Rivals all innovate on the core ideas of RTS, the same way that Halo, TF2, Ultrakill, SuperHot, i'd even add Splatoon in here, and the rest of the shooty genre innovate on the core ideas of shooty games. So I'd really like to see your opinion on why innovation doesn't count as innovation.
They don't innovate enough. You are still expected to move each unit individually or with antiquated control groups. It's still all about micro. The core concept of RTS is refusing to change because the devs convinced themselves that a paddle is the only correct way to move a boat.
>You are still expected to move each unit individually or with antiquated control groups. It's still all about micro
Most innovative RTS is Total War.
Units move as groups and there is pause to cool down micro overload...
>Most innovative RTS is Total War
Or it would've been, had it not been stagnant for over 20 years itself.
most innovative RTS was Battleforge.
(Coop-) Campaign with unlockable content
Units could be spawned where you needed them
Simple ressource system
pvp was simple enough that you could play it on a high level without even touching your keyboard
1) by that logic FPS dont innovate because you still move and shoot.
2) the example games in my post prove you wrong. Tooth and Tail only lets you command units by type, and the only command you have is "go here, you know what to do". Planetary Annihilation allows you to set a command for production buildings that the units produced will follow as soon as they're made, like "go to the teleporter to be shipped to a different planet" where the exit teleporter will give them an order of "go to the front lines and attack everything in sight". And that's just two games from my limited catalogue of knowledge.
you are living in a made up world
in the real world Supreme Commander exists and proves you completely wrong, as do a frickload of other games.
I still can't put an order to produce 4 workers and 4 footmen per minute and be done with it. I still can't order workers to automatically place structures to match my desired production. I still can't queue my research in a desired order complete with adjustable timetables. I still can't streamline my resource spending with a single click by choosing "military buildings get priority" or "economic growth priority". I still can't drag a line across the map and watch all my current and subsequent units gather into formations and advance toward the target automatically.
They didn't innovate enough.
>I still can't put an order to produce 4 workers and 4 footmen per minute and be done with it.
>I still can't order workers to automatically place structures to match my desired production.
you can in SupCom
>I still can't drag a line across the map and watch all my current and subsequent units gather into formations and advance toward the target automatically.
sounds like a horrible strategy, but there is a game currently in development that does all of the stuff you mentioned, Heart of Muriet
I played SupCom. What you're describing is only possible with ramshackle plugins on an unofficial client, for a game that's too ancient to even properly utilize your CPU/GPU. And that's besides all the jank involving the abuse of patrol command to make things work. That game didn't go far enough either. And is way too old by now. It would at least get some points for moving in the right direction, but supcom 2 exists.
>sounds like a horrible strategy
If you're fine with APM-centered gameplay you should be fine dragging that line faster and smarter than me to outplay me. Anything else would just be your nostalgia for the control group mire of AoE/Starcraft.
>I played SupCom. What you're describing is only possible with ramshackle plugins on an unofficial client
>unofficial client
I mean, yeah. The company is fricking dead.
Be happy there even is a client that allows you to play multiplayer and updates on the regular while being easy to install.
Oh you must be the dev. Fancy that you still post here. But we can't all just play FaF 'till the end of time, even if the effort itself is commendable.
Take your meds.
You're not making any sense.
Why would you be personally offended by me mentioning FaF in a negative light if you're not the dev? Is your ego riding on that game somehow? That's just pathetic.
>personally offended
your premise is false
stop living in a made up world
What does "Be happy there even is a client that allows you to play multiplayer" mean then? Were you just having an emotional outburst? Are you a woman?
And what sort of complaints are these even?
>muh patrol
How is this even something to cry about? Yeah you can give a command wherein a unit will patrol an area and engage any hostiles it finds - or if it's a worker unit it'll perform duties such as assist/repair or reclaim wherever it is needed.
You gays really just want to complain about minute details to cope with the fact that you hate playing games, huh.
Patrol command in supcom is being used for a bunch of purposes that it was clearly not intended for. You're just so conditioned to use it that you can't imagine it working any other way. If I want my units to be on standby I should be able to order them to be on standy, instead of setting them to patrol a small triangle. The other horrid example is setting engineers on convoluted patrol routes just so that they would salvage crap. SupCom is nowhere near ideal in terms of unit control. It just so happens to do it better than the other dinosaurs of the genre.
What the frick does it mean that units are on "standby"?
And what the frick would you know about it being intended? It's how it works dumbass.
I didn't realize I was talking to a person who never touched ladder. Nevermind then.
Explain what "standby" entails homosexual.
If you look up a competitive game of supcom you're going to notice that players set their units (mostly air) to move around the base in triangles. Mostly as a defensive measure but also so that they can be sent into action as quickly as possible. This is, as a concept, is moronic and shouldn't be there. A conga line of jet fighters doing rounds around pentagon is not something that would even make sense in a real situation.
>A conga line of jet fighters doing rounds around pentagon is not something that would even make sense in a real situation.
>he doesn't know
So why would you not specify that you meant air-units you moronic gorilla Black person. Do you just make up terms on the fly and expect people to know what the frick goes on in your mind?
>muh realism
There also is not a armored command unit, or ACU controlling the entire military, isn't that a bit unrealistic then?
So what's so great about 200 air units patrolling a small plot of land that you're willing to defend it? Setting up that stupid patrol is a needless complication that takes away from actually playing the game, just like any other apm chore. It's there only because it's the most convenient way to keep your air force ready for combat. In a better game it would all be done automatically.
>noooo I have to command my units in an RTS I am dyyyyyying over here
You know you can give the patrol command to the factory and every unit created will do the patrol-command, right?
You don't have to do it for each individually created interceptor. You can AUTOMATE it.
If you can't see how things can get better for unit control in RTS and actually think that SupCom is the absolute pinnacle then there's no point discussing this anymore.
The game gives you every tool needed to overcome the obstacles. Yet you continue to cry and piss your pants.
You are autistic.
You're obsessing over a minute detail and extrapolating it to a massive problem.
Even when confronted with the fact that you are wrong - and moronic - you insist upon it.
The discussion was about RTS games as a whole and how unit control in them can be improved. You misconstrued it to be a dick measuring contest about who's better at playing SupCom. You are illiterate.
What other game has you patrolling your air-force on a small area? You goal-post moving dickslurping massive fricking homosexual.
>What other game has you patrolling your air-force on a small area?
Starcraft comes to mind. Though it's used moderately there because of the risk of eating an aoe attack. What's your point?
My point is that you're coping hard with the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on so you moved the goal-post to avoid losing face.
You're b***h-made.
And no you don't patrol your air-units in Starcraft, you blow out your wrists constantly keeping them controlled.
>And no you don't patrol your air-units in Starcraft
Yes you do if you want to keep them clumped, for whatever reason. They'd just scatter all over the place if left idle.
>My point is that you're coping hard with the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on
I don't think you even understand what I'm talking about. You seem pretty confident about winning the argument though.
>winning the argument
There's that autism again.
Feel free to restate your point now that we've established you moved the goal-post.
My point is that RTS as a genre could do a lot better than "select a clump of units and control them through an esoteric combination of patrol, stop, and a+move commands". If it wants to ever regain wide appeal anyway.
Go play tower defense.
>my genre is dead and I like it that way
This cope stopped being endearing about 5 years ago. We're talking about ways RTS can move forward from where it is now (a fricking grave).
Unfortunately for you, RTS isn't as dead as you'd like it to be.
>somebody mentions that RTS are dead
>no way, here's a webm of supcom (2007)
>and I just played a match of starcraft 2 (2015)
>somebody brings up the list of RTS released this decade that nobody ever talks about like Grey Goo
>thread dies
Get real. These threads are always the exact same shit. The genre is on life support at best.
>thread dies
Yeah because Ganker is a bunch of casual shitters that don't play RTS to begin with.
RTS didn't die. It just didn't grow exponentially as other genres because RTS can't be casualized enough for a broader audience.
It's unironically a good thing that RTS never had mass-appeal.
Also you forget AoE4.
>new esportsBlack person cope arrived
>R-RTS was never popular!!!!
holy shit, homosexual
you're so fricking wrong it's unbelievable
it used to be a genre sellling millions and popular with casuals and even kids
the wienerroaches like you infested the genre and it nosedived into esportroonydom appealing to tasteless homosexuals only
Wow those are some bold claims. Good thing you backed them up with facts.
>C&C1 2 million by 1997
>RA1 2 million by 1997
>AoE1 3 million by 2000
>SC 4 million by 2001
at a time when PC gaming was a literal fraction of what it is today
have a nice day, esportsBlack person
Now show sales for all RTS instead of stopping at 2001.
>argument is RTS used to be mainstream
>show proof it used to be mainstream when PCs were 1% as popular as today
>(you): "BU-BUH WHAT ABOUT THE TIME WHEN PCS GOT MORE POPULAR REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
my point was proven, esportsBlack person, you're grasping at straws
AOE4 sold millions
Fighting games still sell millions, SFV outsold SF2.
These genres just didn't blow up like cinematic games do
>Also you forget AoE4
That game is arguably a downgrade to base AoE2 with how little it has going for it. It definitely didn't innovate for shit. I am also half-convinced that the only discussion it ever had on Ganker was part of Microsoft's marketing campaign.
But sure let's bring up more random crap. Industrial Annihilation looks like it's going to be a nice money grabbing scam, following in the footsteps of Human Resources. Sanctuary Shattered Sun seems to be more of that too. None of these make me optimistic about playing them. And I doubt many people will.
What is it that makes MOBA gays so butthurt over RTS?
At the same time desperately seeking the approval to be considered an RTS subgenre.
>killed by MOBA that are just as old
lmao
At least we got some new games in 10 years. RTS still has a huge following that is not made up by streamer prostitutes and reliant on 2-4 games.
SC1, SC2, WC3, AoE2, AoE4, SupCom, C&C Generals, RA2, Stronghold, Universe at War, Skylords all have active playerbases
Because RTS games let you play at your own pace or turn up the heat as opposed to it being an adhd spaz feet from the gate. These people are completely incapable of just relaxing and enjoying a video game, they have to be ten bottles of monster energy down while playing lane man with fifty other things happening all around them to feel fulfilled.
None of these games were ever that popular though?
I think looking at these games as if they were initially successful but failed to retain their customer base is wrong.
Most of the RTS genre's customers are strictly singleplayer gamer, even when it come to successful esports titles like Starcraft (less than 20% of SC2 owners ever play multiplayer according to the devs). They generally don't keep playing the game after playing through the campaign and doing some skirmish. That doesn't mean they are not happpy customers! They paid money and will likely pay again if they release DLC or a sequel.
That means that optimizing a RTS for the benefit of keeping a continuos multiplayer scene means optimizing it against your main customer base (sp gamers) and therefore against financial success. This is, I think, the mistake that a lot of 2010s RTS have made and the reason that decade was such a bad time for RTS.
On the other hand, any game with a large player base that just keeps attracting new players will naturally get a large multiplayer scene as well, because some portion will always fall into that category, even when the game design doesn't explicitly caters to that mode of play.
And I am fairly optimistic about that in regards to TR. If I am reading the Steam charts correctly it already has more wishlist followers than Grey Goo ever had owners.
This is the mistake that Eugen did. They treated the SP players who were thirsting for map and scenario editors with utter contempt and tried to build an esports scene. Unfortunately only the sweatiest of sweats ever play Eugen games competitively and they have no audience. If you want a quick dive into utter madness, enable the multiplayer chat in any Eugen game. Goes to show what kind of people play them online.
Eugen are plain moronic. They fellate the ever living frick out of historical accuracy which makes games incredibly bland and invites the absolute worst of armchair generals to feel at home within the community. Act of Aggression was unironically their last good game.
People thought that there was money in developer supported e-sports. There wasn't; it was just a ZIRP phenomenon.
And you don't have to do shit.
You can have your entire air-force on the ground. Enjoy eating a strat-bomber.
Or learn to look at the minimap.
Or the radar.
Or you could just have a nice day.
moron ape.
What exactly are you complaining about again?
>get better at doing the apm chore or you will lose
Not an argument. Try again.
Furthermore we're arriving at the crux of the issue.
You don't like playing RTS.
Took you long enough to read the OP I guess. Nobody likes playing RTS anymore which is the sole reason we're having this thread.
I like playing RTS.
I know you're sucking air through your teeth right now thinking this is somehow a retort.
You should seriously consider suicide Black person.
If you can't hold a meaningful discussion you should just shut the frick up. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
Meaningful discussion? With a moron like (you)?
You just want to complain about non-existent issues. When these "issues" are pointed out to be figments of your imagination you start crying and moaning like a homosexual.
Meaningful discussing. have a nice day.
One of the few improvements Eugen actually managed to make was giving you the ability to order units to either hold and defend an area or try to assault and capture it. The AI would then take over and you could focus somewhere else instead of having to babysit every single unit to set up positions. How this has not been the standard for a decade is beyond me.
you know you can still play SupCom without FAF. You don't need plugins to infinite queue or make blueprints
supcom isn't even that huge in APM
you can in supcom
you can do build queue in supcom
you can queue research in supcom
resources are streamlined in supcom
you can select all units and drag a line in Zero-K the fan made upgrade to supcom that also has all the features above
you are living in a made up world
Man supreme commander is so good.
The crysis of RTS.
hey man, I just wanted to tell you
you're based
>1) by that logic FPS dont innovate because you still move and shoot.
FPS don't need innovation in core controls because they are already optimal.
>dood, why this FPS expects from me to aim and click the enemy to kill him? Poorly innovative designed game bro, its all about good reflexes....
>dood, why this FPS expects from me to aim
Console shooters literally don't :^)
Literally everything plays the same as 1999 aoe2.
Imagine you could just send units to enemy base with orders to avoid long range defenses and primarily target economic units.
Instead of spamming patrol like moron because there still is no attack units in group command and your idiots will chase the one soldier till the end of the world.
If at any point my battlefield score is affected by how fast I can click and zoom-zoom camera, you funked up.
It is no longer strategy it is fps.
They innovate in wrong ways. In fact all of those are actively missing the defining rts feature map editor with script engine to make your own shit, this is the reason rts had lasting appeal and casuals played it, because it wasn't just a packaged campaign with skirmish multiplayer thrown in for the good measure, it was framework to frick around in, you know like a roblox.
>Because from my limited RTS knowledge there's plenty of innovation in the genre. Tooth and Tail, Planetary Annihilation, Achron, Gray Goo
They did not innovate enough. All of them are literally who games.
Teams to blame losses on, only one character (sometimes with secondary units as part of one character) to control with no need to pan the camera to the base to produce an army and expand resource economy, really it's a casuals' dream of an RTS where you dont need to do strategy in real time.
RTSs have no strategy. There is reason they are called asiaticclicker games.
a phrase made up by like 2 people who themselves play asiatic clickers
What do you call deciding worker allocation per resources, position of your bases, prioritisation of units and their upgrades?
Artificial busy work to overload player attention when he struggles with mutalisk harass micro.
It's ok to come out and say you can't into strategy... maybe you should play mobas instead
>game has APM as main player universal performance metric
>strategy
what you want is a game with less units to control.
>>game has APM as main player universal performance metric
Which game?
You're getting baited. If APM doesn't matter, it's not an RTS. It's like asking for an FPS where reaction time doesn't matter.
APM is the result of good play, not the cause of it. You have high APM because you're able to think quickly, if you're incapable of taking decisions your APM will drop like a brick.
There's a difference between thinking about your strategy and thinking about 200 little things you have to click in sequence within the next minute. And only one of those things realistically requires APM of 200.
In a perfect RTS your APM would have little to do with the result of the match, since a correctly picked strategy always beats an incorrect strategy. APM would only come into play when both you and your opponent are constantly adapting your strategy to each other. And that's absolutely not what happens in your average game of asiaticlick, as evidenced by all the pro scene highlights where some idiot was so preoccupied juggling his million control groups he forgot to build stealth detection.
You don't need to think in RTS lol. Just memorize the build que for your specific matchup then asiaticclick to build and finally send your amorphous blob of units to move-attack the enemy lmao.
Shit genre for brainless morons, no wonder it died. When those same asiatics tried competing in Total Warhammer multiplayer (RTT), they got destroyed by Turin who is like a B+ player at his best, simply because you can't asiaticclick your way to victory in games that have actual tactical depth which RTS trash never did and never will.
The people you're talking to are bad-faith shitposters. We go through this song and dance every thread.
The only asiaticclick is Broodwar and that's because that game is as full of bigs as swiss cheese dropped into an ant hill.
The S in RTS stands for Strategy, it is the core of the genre. If you see an early rush, that's a strategy, if you see someone going full on economy and expansion, that's a strategy, any sort of timing attack is a strategy. Low APM ways of playing exist for most good RTS's, even StarCraft, so really you not seeing how to strategize in a strategy game genre just shows how little you actually know about the genre or the concept of strategy.
Your genre is dead for a good reason then.
>waaah where is strategy
>>here it is, just look harder
>waaah i dont wanna look i just wanna button mash
Casuals, not even once.
> Rush to archers.
> Beat 1v1.
> Friend starts to build walls after that match.
> AoE 2 in a nutshell.
At the end of the day, your genre is still dead and you're still salty. Your two decades old standard for what an RTS should be sucks and the reality of today reflects that perfectly.
I dunno what you're talking about, I play RTS games just fine. Don't project your saltiness onto me, button masher scrublord
Oh yeah? What have you played recently? Could it be a game from a decade ago? Two decades? Tell me about how good you have it.
>good games are actually bad because they're old
i accept your forefit and concession
You don't play RTS
>The only asiaticclick is Broodwar
Why do people say this?
The meta is literally evolving to this day.
>muh strategy
>talk about tactics
esportrannies try not to be 70IQ challenge: impossible
Strategies are composed of tactics, good job moron
>esportstroony doesn't know the meaning of words
literally none of what you're doing in an RTS is actually strategy, esportstroony
stay mad
GO GO GO
DO SAME THING ALL DAY
GO GO GO
GG
>No argument
Outted yourself as a moron
You don't know what words mean. No, your headcannon does not supersede the dictionary.
>There is reason they are called asiaticclicker games
Lmao look at this fricking moronic zoomer. SC is called asiaticclicker since koreans were crazy about that game. Not fricking RTS genre as a whole. Fricking drink bleach stupid moronic homosexual c**t
mobas didnt kill rts, the players who werent there for the rts just didnt stick around. besides, ea killed rts more than anyone. you either took starcrafts place as the esports game, or your studio got axed. nobody could do it.
MOBA didn't kill anything. Developers killed RTS themselves while they were busy catering to micro-focused APM-morons. MOBA is just logical development of what they were trying to do from the very beginning.
>more games like Kohan never ever
It hurts.
>RTS thread
>people complaining about the real-time part
why can't they admit they just want a turn-based game instead?
What they actually want is autobattlers.
People keep saying this but i don't see how mobas could kill RTS at all
Dota was more popular than other custom games in WC3 with a lot of people pirating/buying WC3 just to play dota but that's it. LoL/Dota playerbase doesn't overlap with RTS playerbase and if tomorrow LoL and Dota shut down these people won't go play Starcraft instead or something.
>People keep saying this but i don't see how mobas could kill RTS at all
it's okay zoomer, people who actually played the games can attest to that
Mowburs killed RTS and the early adopters of Mowburs were esportsBlack folk who got bored of SC
I'm sure there would still be demand for a good single player RTS/RPG hybrid. SpellForce 3 was pretty successful for being only such attempt in ages despite being pretty mediocre.
Very similar technology so if you can make one you can make the other and you have to explain your boss why you want to make the one that wont make as much money.
they didnt
Path of least resistance.
It's easier and less stressfull.
A lot of coping in that community tho, thinking that mobas is somehow hard lolmao
>Ganker is STILL fuming about how DotA ruled the world
lol
implying it's not everyone and your mum shitting on MOBA gays. Least respected genre on Ganker
Don't talk for other people.
but moba/dotalikes are games played mostly by subhuman brownoids and moronic vodka apes lol
ASShomosexualS players are literally subhuman. Why would you out yourself like this?
uh oh
yup thats me
The only issue with this image is that casual RTSs also don't exist.
I'm currently grinding through Diamond on SC2, but also I'd love to play Cities Skylines but with combat.
The closest you can get are a tiny handful of shitty EA indie games.
>I'm currently grinding through Diamond on SC2
If you are not using map hacks like 99% of the playerbase, you are already doing it wrong.
Either play starcraft 2 and other games on lan at a tournament or don't play at all, the cheat updates itself alongside with the game bro, you will never win that fight.
Coping loser
Yes that me
So where is my Generls-2 ?
MOBAs killed MMORPGs and RTSes as well they combined the grind with shitty RTS combat that borrowed basics from MMOs.
Watered down slop.
RTS as a genre has a fundamental critical flaw: The optimal way to play the game is an utterly miserable experience
The macro skill cap is an order of magnitude lower than the micro skill cap
They didn't?
The real question is why MOBA's insist on using the control-scheme from RTS when there's only one (1) 'unit' to control.
I suppose tighter controls elevates the skill-ceiling and we can't have that with these barely functioning apes.
Most zoomers don't know about Warcraft 3 which was a RTS/RPG hybrid. It had the ability to create custom games you could play online which led to the creation of Dota. Dota became popular and the rest is history.
I don't care about upgrading base, base building, city skyline and other craps I just want micro my unit and fricking fight and DOTA solve my problems
>World in Conflict
>no base build order autism
>in MP all comes down to using unit comps in creative ways to outwit the enemy
>campaign full of soul and spectacle
>ends with room for sequel
>no sequel, Ubisoft throws the devs into AssCreed salt mines never to be seen again
Right about the time I gave up on this cursed genre. Eugen's attempts never came even close especially with their desperate chase for the esports golden goose on the expense of everything else.
in Conflict
Why did you have to remind me, anon?
What kind of Eugene games are you even talking about?
there is Act of War/Agression which are classic RTS games and there is the Wargame series which is hardcore RTT field battle simulation
SC2 was shit and league was really appealing because dota1 never really took off as big as it could've because of blizz. So everyone was like frick it lets play this instead.
MOBAs didnt kill RTS. Competitive multiplayer did. All the appeal of RTS was in the campaign and the custom maps/campaigns. It was never in the soulless auto-matched fricking laddershit.
Because most people don't actually want to command or lead units. Might as well ask why you don't order around a squadron of fighters in Ace Combat. Or why you don't lead a platoon in Call of Duty. If that's what people really wanted the genres would evolve towards that over time.
I have some hope but it's dwindling.
If the both games linked below are shit I will kms
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2388620/DORF_RealTime_Strategic_Conflict/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1486920/Tempest_Rising/
Casuals hate 1v1
I hope dorf rts is good
Same. The dev occasionally drops in on /vst/.
No.
The gaming industry changed, all companies went public for investor money. Investors invest to get a return, and returns require constant growth. Constant growth requires ever larger audiences year on year or greater monetization.
These are not compatible with the RTS genre, it's a niche genre.
I like how every fix people push is dumb the genre down for morons. Ganker is getting stupider by the year, even playing a guitar is seen as tryhard on Ganker.
I love how mentally ill esports babbies are shitting and crying about the mere idea of the genre not being dogshit that exclusively panders to them.
Games are all homogenized into two to four specials, an ultimate, and some kind of lock-on or autoaim. Genres don't even matter anymore, it's just some homosexual Marvel/anime power fantasy story and autoplay mechanics with dodge and attack binary choices for fights in between cutscenes.
Anything else is considered sweaty. It's all so tiresome
because RTScels were already playing RTS like mobas by clicking units back and forth instead of strategy
>instead of strategy
esportroony calling 'tactics' 'strategy' episode 5153
i'm a dominions 5 chad, I am completely disconnected from this matter, schizo.
do any of you guys actually play games?
there's an AoE2 expansion coming out in 2 days
>500h in aoe2
>500h in coh1
>400h in mowas2
yes, yes i do play rts games
Autism. You could say the same thing about literally every single kind of genre of gaming turning to total shit because of it.
>MMOS-Queue simulators for arenas and PVE content all about meta
>Shooters-Hero shooter troonycore PUBG clones all about meta
>RPGs-Dark Soul clones all about meta
The point being is that video games stopped being about fun and started being all about catering to a very slim minority of admittedly talented players. Not that they shouldn’t be catered to by giving them the modes they like, but this incredibly slim minority of people have managed to make the entirety of the industry all about them and take the fun and imagination out of vidya.
Why are zoomies all adhd riddled autists? The frick happened to them
The generation that raised them failed them, most of the ADHD types are people that were raised by tablets or given something like a PSP before they could pronounce their own mothers name. Shit parents raise terrible children.
It’s literally all of them though man. I’m not entirely convinced it’s their parents when all of their music, shows and video games are all adhd horrorscapes. Says more about the actual creative subculture in media and what they want the zoomers to be than the kids themselves since they’re the ones making the content.
I don't think anyone would deny that certain groups of ~~*people*~~ are destroying the younger generations but it's also society/parents fault for allowing outside influences to do it unchecked. Any other culture outside of the West would non-stop riot until they stopped.
Most of this stuff comes from or caters to a Korean/Asian audience, though. Everything from the flashy coom bait character designs and colour pallet you see down to the repetitive nature of the gameplay is what is popular there by a huge margin.
how come there are next to zero RTS games that play like Warcraft?
I like small armies, hero units, feeling a lot like an RPG with map exploration and leveling up your heroes. That shit is fun. I've always had my idea for a Warcraft-like. Basically following the Warcraft 3 formula but casualizing it further, make the base-building macro part of the game heavily automated with buttons on the HUD that are always on screen. The reason for this is so the player can focus on the hero gameplay. Their attention can be pretty much entirely on exploring and fighting with their hero and small army. I think it would be a really fun game.
try Spellforce
>make the base-building macro part of the game heavily automated with buttons on the HUD that are always on screen. The reason for this is so the player can focus on the hero gameplay
That's just Dawn of War 2. Also you should look into tactics games instead.
why does everyone keeps calling dota a moba doesn't valve consider it an Action RTS
Why are ASShomosexualS even part of this thread. They're in decline just as much as RTS at this point. Shouldn't we be trying to figure out what killed Dota or something.
lol dota and league are still the biggest games out right now homies been saying dota 2 been dying or is dead for the last 5 years
There hasn't been a new moba release for a decade now. The genre is not growing anymore.
>Battlerite is released on early access
>Everybody says it's good
>devs rape the project and leave it to vultures
>make virgin vampire game
FUVK YOU STUNLOCK STUDIOS BRING BACK BLC YOU FRICKING moronS
>everyone says its good
more like most shilled game for like half a year
the amazing thing about MOBAs is that it will go offline in a year and you won't even be able to play it afterwards.
Meanwhile the RTS crowd managed to patch old games and even revived an always online game.
>you won't even be able to play it afterwards.
Untrue, HoN playerbase resurrected the game after it got closed.
The genre hasn't innovated in decades. It's time to accept it's dead jim.
lol as long as dota 2 and league is still alive that really all that matters since these devs dont know what makes a moba so great
but here is a new moba since the genre is so dead
?si=RUDBdi8iXDD0-4Y8
Bruh you can't just post an announcement trailer and call it a game. It's not even out yet.
Yeah so I want to make this game
>BUT IS EVERYTHING NEON COLOURED AND FLASHY?
It’s a real-time strategy game
>HOW MANY LANES? CAN I GO UP AND DOWN OR JUST UP?
The story involves a group of spacefaring..
>WHATS A STORY NEED GO
Why would anyone play rts when rtt games exist? Rts evolved into rtt and that's what people play.
I prefer sudden strike, mech commander and dawn of war 2 to starcrqft, red alert and dawn of war.
>mech commander
Giga based. Consider giving rage of mages a try.
Kek, played that too over a decade ago. Also commandos was the breasts back in the days of my teenagehood. Now I mostly play total warhammer multiplayer.
Here is the future:
No more total war games, or they will be made into some kind of live service game you will have to spend a shit load of money on.
This genre is too niche.
>hyenas and total war egypt flopped in the same year
>implying creative assembly will even survive to continue making total wars
>it's evening
>you sit comfy in your chair
>snacks and drinks around you
>boot up rts game
I miss it so fricking much bros...
i consider every game that can inflict carpal tunnel a bad game. any game that requires mouse button mashing is bad and shouldn't exist.
The only games that have fricked up my hands are shooters.
Imagine having to click for every fricking bullet. Thank the gods for macroes.
What are some modern actually good RTSs?
I can only think of:
Modern Russia vs Ukraine simulator:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1611600/WARNO/
WW1 simulator:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2109370/The_Great_War_Western_Front/
American Civil War simulator:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/502520/Ultimate_General_Civil_War/
Rag-tag team of former Westwood employees band together to create a new RTS:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1486920/Tempest_Rising/
Enviromental destruction, the RTS:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1604270/Broken_Arrow/
Are there any other actually good modern RTS games out there?
Enjoy anon.
>crazy russian making singleplayer only rts out of vodka bottles
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2610770/Dust_Front_RTS/
>OpenRA modders remembered KKnD was a thing and larp as westwood
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2388620/DORF_RealTime_Strategic_Conflict/
>Petroglyph doing petroglyph things
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1439750/9Bit_Armies_A_Bit_Too_Far/
>Act of Generals at home
https://store.steampowered.com/app/908770/Global_Conflagration/
>some absolute madmen who loved Red Dragon naval gameplay decided to make a game out of it
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1355680/Ardent_Seas/
>yet another starcraft at home
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1605850/ZeroSpace/
>Hooded Horse continues to invest into some make believe vaporware projects
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1672320/Fragile_Existence/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1280190/Falling_Frontier/
>what if we made Battlefleet Gothic clone with discount Homeworld 2 combat and it was bland as frick
https://store.steampowered.com/app/406160/Dust_Fleet/
they’re easier and you have team mates to blame when you lose. both very appealing notions to the slug-brained masses
can you Black folk stop fellating TA,SupCom and their other clones ad infinitum?
I'm so fricking tired of that shitty game, I need something fresh
RTS were a thing before the success of the PS2 showed that the future of gaming is with consoles, and there was an intentional dumping down of the industry with the Wii/Xbox360/PS3 era because they wanted more "regular" people to play video games. that conditioning is still too strong today to make a game with too many moving parts really profitable.
RTS games have a huge "setup phase" at the beginning of every single match. MOBAs get right into the action, even if it is at a lower intensity than later in the game. Clearly this appealed to more people than classic RTS structure.
I'm not saying RTS were wrong or bad, but there's your answer.
depends on the game. AoE is the king of slow. Ladder matches in SupCom are actually way faster than anything MOBA meaning your average game is 10-20min
> MOBAs get right into the action
no they don't. there is always a farming phase that lasts at least 10 minutes where there is only a couple ganks.
meanwhile in high level supcom you you get 5 minutes player kills because there's always players that fight with their ACU.
true setup phases where people are playing single player only exist in older or crap RTS games.
Early game slog really should be automated out of RTS games. Let me start the game by scouting terrain and enemy bases while my workers are multiplying by themselves.
I'm pretty sure you can freely play the only 2 good RTS games rn.
FAF and WGRD
Same reason arena FPS died around 2006. Because companies started pushing leet pro epic gamur comp no fun allowed and so their modder/fun scenes died. Base building and custom maps/modding were delet in favor of asiaticclick shit.
>Same reason arena FPS died around 2006. Because companies started pushing leet pro epic gamur comp no fun allowed and so their modder/fun scenes died.
Well surely then it's just a matter of making a new arena shooter since the market is so underserved ACK
no because your basedcorps make another leet epic competitive shooter catering to a top 0.00005% that doesnt exist, that no one wants instead of a moddable fun game
You're not making any sense. Arena shooters died because people don't prefer them.
Anyone else cautiously excited for ZeroSpace?
It appears to be a budget starcraft 2 copycat that decided to focus on cinematics of all things. That doesn't inspire much hope.
The only new RTS I'm looking forward to is DORF, it's the only one with actual artstyle. They aren't just straight copying old RTS, the economy is more involved as the resources need to be transported to the factories I think. Zerospace is too SC2, same with Stormgate, Tempest rising is too blatant in ripping off C&C and the demos they released showed that the pathfinding isn't that good.
>The only new RTS I'm looking forward to is DORF,
Imagine making pixelshit in 2023. Nobody intelligent will play this.
It's not pixelshit, but pre rendered 3D
Fine, I'm gonna wishlist your shit game. It better be good or else.
showed that the pathfinding isn't that good.
so the full C&C experience.
looking forward to Dust Front
singleplayer RTS first and foremost made by essentially a single person who wants to cater to a niche
No, looks like Starcraft 2, which is one of the most bland (aesthetic wise) games of all times. I also cringe at anything Starcraft related these days. Frick Starcraft.
rts killed themself. the last good rts was starcraft 2 and at that point, the genre was tainted with many bad games.
>the last good rts was starcraft 2
SC2 wasn't even good.
>MOBA did it
>Y did it
It's like arena shooters threads.
This was the proper evolution for APM. This along with RUSE focused a lot more on strategy instead of micromanaging your units.
No one play those games sadly. They do exist even now but very niche.
Interesting post. I bought that game a couple of days or weeks ago but haven't touched it since.
Is it good in singleplayer? Is it good in multiplayer? Be honest, please.
shit in sp and even worse in mp
Just refunded it, thanks.
The golden days of MP (when we had wargame general with 200 pages long how to play guide) are the past. I doubt you will able to play MP without suffering. It has no matchmaking and people who currently play game don't want to waste their time against noobs. You most likely will be kicked out of games
RTS will resurrect