because while I don't think 5 was an improvement to the series, it was a pretty good game anyways regardless of what I think personally.
Make good games = people like
Make constant bad games since 12 = people don't like
it's not rocket science
Its funny, I think Persona 5 was a bit too shackled to its series history >Why the frick are there even still story time limits, I think the games better having them but narratively they made zero sense in P5
A few other minor things like that which feel like they are only in because they were a thing in 3.
But Final Fantasy keeps abandoning things that work and trying to reinvent the wheel every game so they are pretty much the opposite of persona.
What is weird to me with 5 is in 4, you can just do a dungeon start to finish in one go. Now in 5, they want you to go in a bit, then out. Then everyone talks for a week, then go back in then back out etc. The whole dungeon experience feels really disjointed and its not just one, but all of them. I don't want themed hallways that are just generated, but if I go in let me fricking do it.
5 is the easiest one to finish a palace in the least amount of time, you got will seeds and plenty of SP restore items. In 4 the difficulty spikes up massively as you move floors and you might have to spend 2 hours grinding to be the proper level for the boss.
Except in 5 that would take up like 2 weeks of calendar time while its one day in P4. Its another thing where if you do it quick in P4, you miss alot of extra dialog from scenes about doing the dungeon or whats happening in the real world.
Where are you getting this 2 week shit from? You clear the route, send a calling card and fight the boss. Maybe you run into a hurdle in the middle of the palace and need a day to fix it. At most it's 3 or 4 days once the real infiltration starts.
5 really had no reason to not just bullshit >Oh the only time you can do the final boss is the last day of the deadline
It would have made everything flow better instead of >Oh we took Kamoshidas trophy, better jack off for a few weeks and hope it all works out
Or even >I caught you in my study, Im calling the cops.....IN THREE WEEKS
you got to remember that Persona was the first attempt to bring SMT over to the US. Unironically, I was a Persona fan before I was an SMT fan simply because when I was young this game was the first one brought over that I got my hands on.
also, it's funny that we were one 90's marketing moron away from talking about the Revelations series instead where the first game was called Persona and the others were called other random ass shit
>People hated FFXIII and Squeenix kept making more of it.
God, ain't that the truth. They're still doing it, btw. They KNOW the older games are what make cash because they keep milking them for nostalgia, but then they keep trend chasing with the main series.
It makes zero fricking sense.
>It makes zero fricking sense.
I would guess, despite being delusional morons, even they know FF isn't the cultural juggernaut it used to be. Its time has passed. Releasing a big new numbered FF now isn't an event to get excited for now. They can't go back to the way things were.
They were planning on making the MC into an idol/celeb.
They literally said that was their plan which is why they spent millions on shit like animating her hair.
A lot of it was a bunch of morons not knowing how hard it would be because of the era of when they did it. >Hurr how hard can CG animation be
>Linear FF game, XIII = >:( >Linear FF game, VIIR = :O
Oldgays are the everything wrong with FF. What's funny is that XIII is decent when it's linear. It shits on the bed when it reaches to open wasteland of Gran Pulse.
>Oldgays are the everything wrong with FF.
says the zoomer who is the reason for trash like 7R and 15 and 16
lol have a nice day you worthless zoomer maggot
>FF doesn't need to be nothing but linear hallways
X = Linear hallways, people loves it
XII = Non linear, people hates it
XIII = Linear hallways, people hates it?
XV = Non linear, people hates it
VIIR = Linear hallways, people loves it
XVI = Linear hallways, people hates it?
Even in post PS1 era of FF linear games are more well received than non linear ones.
I always laugh at salesgays
Ring Fit Adventure has sold more copies than the entire Ace Attorney series of 11 games combined. Does that mean it's better? Does that mean it has had a larger impact? Of course not, you'd have to be a moron to think so.
not only is he a salesgay, he's a more moronic one than usual. Look at the the categories. Shit is lumped together, than broken down by title, and then the last category is randomly P4G only, and ONLY the Steam release
this is 'proof'
lol
Need to make reasonable comparisons. Ring Fit is in a category all its own because of what its targeted demographic is. Ace attorney is a weird niche game that will never be popular.
SMT/ Persona and FF are comparable franchises, Square is just better at doing what they both are setting out to do.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>, Square is just better at doing what they both are setting out to do.
In what world? Persona has upward momentum, while FF is like a downward slope.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I wouldnt call that upward momentum. It's just P5 being very successful. All other Atlus franchises including SMT have receptions ranging from shit to mediocre at best. There's a reason why they keep making P5 spinoffs instead of P6. Persona isnt worth anything without the 5 on the side
11 months ago
Anonymous
>There's a reason why they keep making P5 spinoffs instead of P6.
That's not exactly abnormal for them. It took then 8 years to make Persona 5, and in that time they released Arena, Arena Ultimax, Persona Q, Dancing All Night, Persona 4 Golden and Persona 3 Portable.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Anon isn't wrong in that P5 has had the most rereleases and spinoffs -with another one to come- despite being the most recent release. They're almost certainly riding the wave in this case.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>They're almost certainly riding the wave in this case.
Oh yeah, Atlus over the years has mastered the art of milking the cash cow. While every new release carries risk, I personally don't think they're too worried about Persona 6, they just want to milk Persona 5 (and 3) dry before they replace it with the next model.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Square is just better at doing what they both are setting out to do.
ppffffhahahahaa
>5 is the most accessible, user friendly and least grindy
Yes, but it's extremely long-winded, exposition heavy and "go to bed, you had a big day!". I would rather grind for a couple of hours.
P5R has the most free days of any persona game even if you have to go to bed occasionally for story reasons or whatever. Your teacher can even give you massages to free up nights after going in the metaverse.
I agree but only because of the fanbase P5 has cultivated. You just know gays will rip P6 a part if there’s some combination of no female MC/no gay shit/etc
SMT already follows the Zelda cycle to a T
so discord trannies on Ganker will bend over backwards to shit on P6 and suddenly act like P5R was God's gift to gaming
P5 had no female protag and no gay shit so why would that stop P6 from being successful? If anything it would be less likely to be successful given how unpopular LGBT shit has become.
It will always be a vocal minority. It was the same with P3R announcing that it was just sticking to Male MC and most people were just laughing at FeMCgays.
the fricking moron hangs on IN troony Town, where the fan base for everything is full of disgusting troons, and then draws the conclusion that the fan base for Thing™ must be all trannies
It's amazing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>must be all trannies
Yes, that's exactly what I said. I certainly didn't say that a lot of P5's new fans are progressive.
I don't know if there are enough of them cause an appreciable dent in sales if they decide to take issue with something (they certainly failed with Hogwarts Legacy) but they might be able to exert pressure since Atlus has already set a precedent by censoring shit in the localization of P5R.
>Doesn't have Canon romance because ATLUS is scared of waifugays >All the girls are one dimensional and lust for the MC wiener from moment 1 except for P3 and that's why Yukari filter those gays >At the end it doesn't matter who "wins" the MC bowl the ending has no changes no matter who you chose >Multiple "routes" but ultimately useless
Is a VN and a BAD one.
That's your problem, romance is literally just side-shit in persona, it's not a focus, yet you're acting like that's the only point of the game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>That's your problem, romance is literally just side-shit in persona
Even "side-shit" is exaggerating its importance, it's just a tiny alternate branch of forging bonds with people. You can not do any romance stuff at all and it will change nothing.
They didn't shit in their fan's throats and didn't shift the gameplay too drastically. The morons in charge of Final Fantasy (especially Nomura, Kitase and Yoshi P) seem to think they need to chase bigger crowds for bigger sales so they make all the games action and feel NOTHING like the series best games. Persona 3, 4, and 5 all have similar combat even if the stories are different. Final Fantasy should always have ATB or Turn Based combat and it should always have a world map and exploration that opens up as the game gets bigger. It should ALWAYS have a party and should always have a variety of colorful locales and party moments.
The fact that they only used FFX's and X-2's battle system for a single fricking game each is outrageous. CTB was wonderful and X-2 had the best version of the ATB we ever got and they threw them both away.
Persona is built around SMT's demon fusion and press turn system (the one-more system is basically a watered down press turn system but its close enough) which is genuinely unimpeachable as the best turn based combat and party building systems of any game
So Persona is took a perfected gameplay loop and wrapped it with a delicious social sim game without fricking up what made SMT so much fun in the first place
FF's solution was to throw all of it's gameplay systems in the trash to "cast a wider net"
>which is genuinely unimpeachable as the best turn based combat and party building systems of any game
Saga Scarlet Grace's system is better and doesn't devolve to weakness/crit spam.
>Persona is built around SMT's demon fusion and press turn system (the one-more system is basically a watered down press turn system but its close enough) which is genuinely unimpeachable as the best turn based combat
I agree. The only system that could debate it is Grandia's system
persona with 5 got the "niche japanese game now getting traction" bonus. The kind of "I can't rate badly this game because it's supossed to be super good" nu reviewer meme.
The game is absolute trash and I say this as someone who played all of them and got the deluxe edition day one. Idealistic juvenile trash everywhere, terrible cast, morning cartoon villains, and the most padded game in history. No wonder it got delayed 2 or 3 years, atlus was completely lost with the game and you can't tell they didn't know what the frick to do with it, it feels like random shit badly stuck together.
>The kind of "I can't rate badly this game because it's supossed to be super good" nu reviewer meme.
every single day I am reminded how much stupider and more moronic Gankerzoomers get
But it's true, reviewers are terrible in general and don't know what makes a game good or not specially this recent years with it becoming popular and so much newbies entering the medium and analyzing it. They mostly say what people want to hear or what they expect people to think about the game.
It's the same reason DS2 got a better score than DS1, because a lot of them noticed they were fricking moronic with how big and great it became among users and went full in with DS2 as a "same but better because it's a sequel", when in fact it was nothing but garbage.
Same for P5, barely anyone played these games but it had a very strong small fanbase with a lot of praise for it and hype for it, and when it came out they gave it a good score to not look like morons, when the game is nothing but a dev hell ridden mess.
But don't worry, the game has already some standard criticisms among users they now know of and next time if it keeps the same "badly paced" calendar system, no diverstiy, and other shit you can bet it won't get closer to 90+ on meta even if it's a better game. It's more, just wait for P3R to release and not get even close to the original because of the no female mc, fes content, and buzzwords like "missing qol" etc. This is how they operate.
Persona 5 is smart enough to appeal to their fanbase and assume said fanbase will grow organically over time.
Final Fantasy XVI has thrown out everything their fanbase used to like in order to fish for growth with new audiences.
Those are two strategically very different ways to handle your growth.
moron, the main selling point of Persona is how appealing it looks and plays. Good style, good music, cute girls you can date, epic boss battles, entry level philosophical debates for midwits, everything is there. >But muh I don't like it!
Then you are just not their main target public.
>the main selling point of Persona is how appealing it looks and plays. Good style, good music, cute girls you can date, epic boss battles, entry level philosophical debates for midwits, everything is there.
The gameplay loop is also very addictive when it's not locking you into hour-long cutscenes
BOTW still has the same DNA as the rest of the franchise, you can draw the line from Legend of Zelda on NES to BOTW as an evolution of those concepts. there is literally nothing Final Fantasy about XVI, they use a lot of similar names and crystals and stuff but it has absolutely nothing in common with 90% of the other numbered series. it's baffling stupid that Square greenlit this.
There's distinct zelda elements from the very first game that botw abandoned. It's like if they released an open world metroid game without any of the metroidvania elements and then you have people going "you know, this is more metroid than all the others because if you go back to the first game, it was a lot more non linear than the later ones, this is just going back its roots", ignoring that it pretty much abandoned everything the series was to do that.
>Old FF >Success because they are bringing new art style or visuals to the player >new FF >art style is realism, visuals are worse than the best out there, like naughty dog's or GOW's visuals >Persona >Success because they are focus on bringing unique visual & presentations, and that catches the audiences' attentions >FF >Abandon what makes them popular and beloved >Persona keep what makes them popular and beloved
Basically, each new FF is so different that they are basically rerolling the dice and hope it rolls nat20 every time.
Persona rolled a 18, thinks it's good enough, so they decided to stop rolling.
Persona fans have no taste and are incredibly easy to please. Just make a game where they can romance and date underage anime women and they will buy 3 copies.
yoshi-p wants to be recognized as a good producer world wide, Atlus makes good games but they only appeal to permavirgin turbo weeaboos.
Can't blame Yoshi-p for wanting to be accomplished on the world stage and bring a wider range of prestige.
Final Fantasy has a rich 35 year history spanning multiple directors, writers, and companies.
Persona is just a spinoff of the SMT franchise that surpassed it because SMT is bottom of the barrel JRPG shovelware. The entire Persona series has one good game and that is 3.
>Why did Persona succeed and grow while Final Fantasy failed?
Final Fantasy outright gave up on its genre. Persona, even with radical changes over the years, kept innovating for better or worse within the same genre. And built an audience.
Final Fantasy hit their peak sales and then immediately followed it up by making the next entry a fricking MMO. And now the games are even fricking action games instead of RPGs.
The crowd that made Final Fantasy's core did not stick around while it kept trying to chase new crowds.
>Final Fantasy hit their peak sales and then immediately followed it up by making the next entry a fricking MMO.
I think this did a lot more damage than most people realize. It was the beginning of the end. Ironically, I think it could have been avoided if they'd just made it a spinoff entry instead of giving it a main number. Doing so changed how people perceived the series, and their expectations of it.
>Final Fantasy hit their peak sales and then immediately followed it up by making the next entry a fricking MMO.
I think this did a lot more damage than most people realize. It was the beginning of the end. Ironically, I think it could have been avoided if they'd just made it a spinoff entry instead of giving it a main number. Doing so changed how people perceived the series, and their expectations of it.
Its crazy to think FFX was planned to be a MMO too.
Concurrent with Persona's incline after P3, Final Fantasy was destroying its reputation as a leading JRPG series and moving toward action gameplay. Atlus just seamlessly filled the market that Square-Enix walked away from.
FF has made like 19 mainline games so far, plus shitloads of spin offs.
Most if not all have sold well, most generally well received by players/critics. Where did FF fail exactly?
Square Enix is moronic, or at least had a very bad episode. X got a sequel. XII was decent enough to get some compilation treatment, and VII got its spinoffs. So the suits got stupid and arrogant and decided to plan on that for the next game, even announced specific titles in advance. Then XIII came out and it was shit. Fabula Nova gets broken up, nothing wants to be associated with that shit anymore. VS XIII devours resources, hopes and dreams like a motherfricker, while at least one man in the wrong place gets way too taken with Lightning. At a time when they really need to knock it out of the park with a really good new XIV, we get... TWO sequels to XIII. The FFXIV needed? A fricking MMO! Finally, XV is coming, and what are we told and shown? No clean break, we're salvaging from the VS XIII money pit and also PLANNING AN EXPANDED MULTIMEDIA PROJECT AGAIN. Now here we are, a new era where FF is only relevant to MMOngoloids.
Final Fantasy has been all over the place and has different directors who have different visions on what a FF title is. Persona, as it is now, was under the direction of Hashino for 3 entries who kept refining his systems with each game and stuck to the core of it being about a group of High School kids somewhere in Japan. P6 will be interesting because we're either getting a departure, which I doubt because this franchise is way too important dollar-wise to Atlus, or we are getting a director who continues to build on Hashino's work.
>Isn't every other persona game completely different? Ones like a fighting game
Technically yes, but they're spinoff titles and don't count. Numbered entries from 3 onwards (and their updated versions) follow the same formula. 1 & 2 are a bit more like the mainline Shin Megami Tensei games (but not quite).
Eternal punishment is worth playing and quite decent. Innocent Sin is a combination of too easy but somehow extremely grindy. It's too bad game patches weren't a thing back in the PS1 because innocent sin will forever be shit.
> 1 & 2 are a bit more like the mainline Shin Megami Tensei games (but not quite).
I always dislike this statement (as someone who's played both persona and smt, new and old), like it's one of those statements that makes people go "ok, makes sense to me" so they start spreading it around but once you put it under the microscope, it doesn't really hold. There's nothing that really makes P1 and P2 more SMT than the new games are, like they're just as different to SMT in terms of tone and story, they're just as different in terms of gameplay but also share the same similarities (so the demons, the skills, the elements and so on.) Like I guess the closest thing you could say is that the first persona was a first person dungeon crawler, but even SMT abandoned that for the most part from Nocturne. What people really mean is that old persona lacks the calendar and social elements that the new persona games which smt also happens to lack, but so does 99% of the other games. Like if Persona 1 and 2 were releases as mainline SMT games, they would be out of place, they would not fit at all, if you're going in with the idea that "this will be like SMT" then you're going in with the wrong expectations.
>Isn't every other persona game completely different? Ones like a fighting game
Technically yes, but they're spinoff titles and don't count. Numbered entries from 3 onwards (and their updated versions) follow the same formula. 1 & 2 are a bit more like the mainline Shin Megami Tensei games (but not quite).
>Numbered entries from 3 onwards (and their updated versions) follow the same formula.
That's a bit ambiguous. What I mean is Persona 3, Persona 4 and Persona 5 follow a consistent formula and so do their re-releases: (Persona 3: FES; Persona 3: Portable; Persona 3: Reload; Persona 4: Golden; Persona 5: Royal)
Having unfortunately met people in the real world who like Persona games, I will never play them.
Even if the games are masterpieces of software I will bar my children from playing them. At least playing some FF games I don't think it's a guarantee they will try going to school wearing cat ears and a skirt.
who the frick cares about midsona? seriously. extremely burnt out that uninteresting as frick franchise for 15 yr old - mid twenties weebs. i can't believe i used to be invested in this shit. at least final fantasy games are interesting even if divisive and controversial every mainline game. persona consistently uninnovative with hack directors
If you don't like the games that's fine anon, but you seem to be under the impression that disliking it is a personality trait, and I am here to tell you it does not make you sound as cool and mature as you think it does.
>Persona is more of life sim than a jrpg
Eh, not really. I say this as someone who likes the sim side slightly more than the JRPG side, but the life sim elements are pretty light and function mostly to buff your stats for the JRPG part. You don't even technically have to engage with the life sim parts, you'll just be quite a bit weaker if you don't. You do have to do the JRPG parts, so that's more integral to the game.
For it to be just a life sim, it would need some heavy retooling. And I don't think it would be a great idea, because the two sides of the game work very well together.
Persona broke through with Persona 3 and never changed it's formula thereby maintaining it's core fanbase and growing that core fanbase with every new game. Final Fantasy tried to reinvent itself ever iteration thereby losing a good chunk of it's core fanbase and having to build a new one every installment. One found out what it wanted to be and stayed true to that vision while the other twisted itself into an unrecognizable abomination to chase trends.
Persona 3 still sold very meagerly. 4 Is when an initial release passed 500K and then Golden entries on Steam and Vita are each the first million sellers respectively. As another anon said and got scoffed at, P5 is the real flare up in doing nearly double its nearest competitor in its initial releases and maintaining the most rereleases on the most platforms with good performance on the original Royal and the Steam release of the remaster. Overall, it doesn't do very well, but 5 is the big shot that sort of permeated youtube and weeb communities who were fans well before ever playing it, contributing to the mindshare and maybe future sales. As other anons have said, I have a doubt that 6 or other sequels will even approach that level of success unless they manage to tap into the aesthetic/character appeal that got so many on board the bandwagon. Might still do well, though.
FF still sells, FF7R has been an eyebrow raiser with what we know and FF16 is looking very, very shaky. Meh.
It's hard to say how much of 5's comparative success is from finding the right appeal, and how much is from being released at the right time. 4's appeal was quite high as well but it came out as a niche title when game streaming barely existed, so it didn't get a chance to reach wider audiences. And yeah, Golden has been released on PSP and PC since then but an update/port of a then-niche 2008 game isn't likely to gain a lot of traction.
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think 4 was any less apt than 5 in terms of aesthetics and appeal, and if they just keep doing more of the same, 6's success is all but assured.
Persona in totality of all the main games and spinoffs, has sold 18 million. Persona reviews well because people are quick to look past faults, but if FF16 for instance didn't have full voice acting people would talk about it. Or you have people complaining the game starts somewhat grounded, and that goes for P5 too when it starts about a coach fricking a student leading them to attempted suicide then both games end with fighting god basically.
Like this board will talk about Persona 5 being a huge success, when it and Royal just recently passed 9 million global. That is a success, and somehow TLOU2 is a massive flop at over 10 million? >inb4 people come and explain budgets that they have no clue about
Except they can both be successes moron. The idea is people think Persona is much bigger than it is, when in reality it was P5 overperforming for whatever reason. Its like how Nier Automata has sold very well, but Nier Replicant couldn't capitalize on that revitalization at all. Do you expect P3 Reload to sell 4-5 million in a year?
>but Nier Replicant couldn't capitalize on that revitalization at all >sold 1.5 million as of last Nov >double of what the original sold in TEN YEARS
you are a fricking moron double Black person
kek
and like a 6th of what Automata did. Some games are just lightning in a bottle.
>Do you expect P3 Reload to sell 4-5 million in a year?
No, because P5 didn't either
Except this is basically peak popularity of the franchise. Its not unreasonable to expect newer games after a massive hit to take advantage of that and keep it rolling.
All I am saying is people have no clue what studios deem a success or what they put into it. 7R had insane doomposting about its sales here and they greenlit two fricking sequels. 7R did 5m in like 3 years.
P5 + P5R sold 8.3 million
FF7R + FF7R Intergrade didn't
I distinctly remember jrpg threads on the internet over the years slowly moving from "dude wat if FF7 remake" to "dude when is persona 5" as P4 gained a huge cult following
because while I don't think 5 was an improvement to the series, it was a pretty good game anyways regardless of what I think personally.
Make good games = people like
Make constant bad games since 12 = people don't like
it's not rocket science
on top of that i'd say persona having its own identity helps a lot
since 11.
Its funny, I think Persona 5 was a bit too shackled to its series history
>Why the frick are there even still story time limits, I think the games better having them but narratively they made zero sense in P5
A few other minor things like that which feel like they are only in because they were a thing in 3.
But Final Fantasy keeps abandoning things that work and trying to reinvent the wheel every game so they are pretty much the opposite of persona.
What is weird to me with 5 is in 4, you can just do a dungeon start to finish in one go. Now in 5, they want you to go in a bit, then out. Then everyone talks for a week, then go back in then back out etc. The whole dungeon experience feels really disjointed and its not just one, but all of them. I don't want themed hallways that are just generated, but if I go in let me fricking do it.
5 is the easiest one to finish a palace in the least amount of time, you got will seeds and plenty of SP restore items. In 4 the difficulty spikes up massively as you move floors and you might have to spend 2 hours grinding to be the proper level for the boss.
Except in 5 that would take up like 2 weeks of calendar time while its one day in P4. Its another thing where if you do it quick in P4, you miss alot of extra dialog from scenes about doing the dungeon or whats happening in the real world.
Where are you getting this 2 week shit from? You clear the route, send a calling card and fight the boss. Maybe you run into a hurdle in the middle of the palace and need a day to fix it. At most it's 3 or 4 days once the real infiltration starts.
5 really had no reason to not just bullshit
>Oh the only time you can do the final boss is the last day of the deadline
It would have made everything flow better instead of
>Oh we took Kamoshidas trophy, better jack off for a few weeks and hope it all works out
Or even
>I caught you in my study, Im calling the cops.....IN THREE WEEKS
Cause persona is good
>the cute long hair on the left
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Safe horny
The SMT community was SMALL for decades. Since there was nothing else coming out, Persona was able to fill the void and found mainstream success.
Persona 4 was actually sold out everywhere when it released, but that was because Atlus printed next to nothing for physical copies.
you got to remember that Persona was the first attempt to bring SMT over to the US. Unironically, I was a Persona fan before I was an SMT fan simply because when I was young this game was the first one brought over that I got my hands on.
also, it's funny that we were one 90's marketing moron away from talking about the Revelations series instead where the first game was called Persona and the others were called other random ass shit
I rented this multiple times to beat it
Meme recency bias and coming off the heels of Persona 4 which is what propelled Persona into the mainstream.
People loved P4 and Atlus kept making more of it.
People hated FFXIII and Squeenix kept making more of it.
>People hated FFXIII and Squeenix kept making more of it.
God, ain't that the truth. They're still doing it, btw. They KNOW the older games are what make cash because they keep milking them for nostalgia, but then they keep trend chasing with the main series.
It makes zero fricking sense.
>It makes zero fricking sense.
I would guess, despite being delusional morons, even they know FF isn't the cultural juggernaut it used to be. Its time has passed. Releasing a big new numbered FF now isn't an event to get excited for now. They can't go back to the way things were.
>It makes zero fricking sense.
They stopped making sense the moment Squaresoft and Enix merged.
I will never understand what the frick was Sakaguchi thinking with Spirits Within. After Sakaguchi left everything got worse but it was his fault
They were planning on making the MC into an idol/celeb.
They literally said that was their plan which is why they spent millions on shit like animating her hair.
A lot of it was a bunch of morons not knowing how hard it would be because of the era of when they did it.
>Hurr how hard can CG animation be
>Linear FF game, XIII = >:(
>Linear FF game, VIIR = :O
Oldgays are the everything wrong with FF. What's funny is that XIII is decent when it's linear. It shits on the bed when it reaches to open wasteland of Gran Pulse.
>Oldgays are the everything wrong with FF.
says the zoomer who is the reason for trash like 7R and 15 and 16
lol have a nice day you worthless zoomer maggot
FF doesn't need to be nothing but linear hallways it's kinda sad that SNES games were more open than the 2023 entry
>FF doesn't need to be nothing but linear hallways
X = Linear hallways, people loves it
XII = Non linear, people hates it
XIII = Linear hallways, people hates it?
XV = Non linear, people hates it
VIIR = Linear hallways, people loves it
XVI = Linear hallways, people hates it?
Even in post PS1 era of FF linear games are more well received than non linear ones.
Flash in the pan success. Persona 6 will not do as well, because that lightning will not strike twice.
>Flash in the pan success
>near 30 year old series
moron alert
Series sells like shit outside of P5, Anon.
do you want me to tell you why you're a fricking moron or can I just start laughing now?
I always laugh at salesgays
Ring Fit Adventure has sold more copies than the entire Ace Attorney series of 11 games combined. Does that mean it's better? Does that mean it has had a larger impact? Of course not, you'd have to be a moron to think so.
not only is he a salesgay, he's a more moronic one than usual. Look at the the categories. Shit is lumped together, than broken down by title, and then the last category is randomly P4G only, and ONLY the Steam release
this is 'proof'
lol
Need to make reasonable comparisons. Ring Fit is in a category all its own because of what its targeted demographic is. Ace attorney is a weird niche game that will never be popular.
SMT/ Persona and FF are comparable franchises, Square is just better at doing what they both are setting out to do.
>, Square is just better at doing what they both are setting out to do.
In what world? Persona has upward momentum, while FF is like a downward slope.
I wouldnt call that upward momentum. It's just P5 being very successful. All other Atlus franchises including SMT have receptions ranging from shit to mediocre at best. There's a reason why they keep making P5 spinoffs instead of P6. Persona isnt worth anything without the 5 on the side
>There's a reason why they keep making P5 spinoffs instead of P6.
That's not exactly abnormal for them. It took then 8 years to make Persona 5, and in that time they released Arena, Arena Ultimax, Persona Q, Dancing All Night, Persona 4 Golden and Persona 3 Portable.
Anon isn't wrong in that P5 has had the most rereleases and spinoffs -with another one to come- despite being the most recent release. They're almost certainly riding the wave in this case.
>They're almost certainly riding the wave in this case.
Oh yeah, Atlus over the years has mastered the art of milking the cash cow. While every new release carries risk, I personally don't think they're too worried about Persona 6, they just want to milk Persona 5 (and 3) dry before they replace it with the next model.
>Square is just better at doing what they both are setting out to do.
ppffffhahahahaa
5 is the most accessible, user friendly and least grindy
>5 is the most accessible, user friendly and least grindy
Yes, but it's extremely long-winded, exposition heavy and "go to bed, you had a big day!". I would rather grind for a couple of hours.
I think he means it's more accessible on youtube. The game looks great on the youtube player! It's no surprise P5 has so many fans.
P5R has the most free days of any persona game even if you have to go to bed occasionally for story reasons or whatever. Your teacher can even give you massages to free up nights after going in the metaverse.
P5 picked up a lot of new fans, and many of those fans will be retained for P6. The series has steadily grown in popularity.
I agree but only because of the fanbase P5 has cultivated. You just know gays will rip P6 a part if there’s some combination of no female MC/no gay shit/etc
SMT already follows the Zelda cycle to a T
so discord trannies on Ganker will bend over backwards to shit on P6 and suddenly act like P5R was God's gift to gaming
P5 had no female protag and no gay shit so why would that stop P6 from being successful? If anything it would be less likely to be successful given how unpopular LGBT shit has become.
A lot of the fans of P5 seem to be supporters of LGBT shit though. Either way, they'll be loud about it. As usual.
It will always be a vocal minority. It was the same with P3R announcing that it was just sticking to Male MC and most people were just laughing at FeMCgays.
Don’t spend so much time on troony twitter
the fricking moron hangs on IN troony Town, where the fan base for everything is full of disgusting troons, and then draws the conclusion that the fan base for Thing™ must be all trannies
It's amazing.
>must be all trannies
Yes, that's exactly what I said. I certainly didn't say that a lot of P5's new fans are progressive.
I don't know if there are enough of them cause an appreciable dent in sales if they decide to take issue with something (they certainly failed with Hogwarts Legacy) but they might be able to exert pressure since Atlus has already set a precedent by censoring shit in the localization of P5R.
Persona went all in on weeb shit. The games are forgettable. FF IV, VI, VII and IX are untouchable.
>The games are forgettable
>while they keep getting made while FF is just getting absolute dogshit pumped out and nobody gives a shit about it
lol
As I said. Weirdos like the weeb shit. But the games are forgettable. It's pretty much playable anime.
Thats because personagays have no taste. They just need anime girls and they are happy.
Hey tardro, you know most FFs are based around romance stories right? Of course you don't; you haven't played any of them
Nobody said romance was bad, Anon. Persona games do not have romance, they have lust simulators for sad weeabs.
>Persona games do not have romance, they have lust simulators for sad weeabs.
this moronic Black person thinks Persona is some nukige VN
lol
It literally is.
>Doesn't have Canon romance because ATLUS is scared of waifugays
>All the girls are one dimensional and lust for the MC wiener from moment 1 except for P3 and that's why Yukari filter those gays
>At the end it doesn't matter who "wins" the MC bowl the ending has no changes no matter who you chose
>Multiple "routes" but ultimately useless
Is a VN and a BAD one.
>Multiple "routes" but ultimately useless
but anon, you just described every single Yuzuge LEL OWNED
That's your problem, romance is literally just side-shit in persona, it's not a focus, yet you're acting like that's the only point of the game.
>That's your problem, romance is literally just side-shit in persona
Even "side-shit" is exaggerating its importance, it's just a tiny alternate branch of forging bonds with people. You can not do any romance stuff at all and it will change nothing.
"Romance" is like a 1 minute scene in a 60 hour JRPG. This is where you continue to cope for me.
It takes dozens of hours to even start a romance
>Is a VN and a BAD one.
that's literally every jrpg thougheverbeit
I have no idea, the characters and writing in P5 was awful
this, but instead with every Final Fantasy past 10
They didn't shit in their fan's throats and didn't shift the gameplay too drastically. The morons in charge of Final Fantasy (especially Nomura, Kitase and Yoshi P) seem to think they need to chase bigger crowds for bigger sales so they make all the games action and feel NOTHING like the series best games. Persona 3, 4, and 5 all have similar combat even if the stories are different. Final Fantasy should always have ATB or Turn Based combat and it should always have a world map and exploration that opens up as the game gets bigger. It should ALWAYS have a party and should always have a variety of colorful locales and party moments.
The fact that they only used FFX's and X-2's battle system for a single fricking game each is outrageous. CTB was wonderful and X-2 had the best version of the ATB we ever got and they threw them both away.
Persona is built around SMT's demon fusion and press turn system (the one-more system is basically a watered down press turn system but its close enough) which is genuinely unimpeachable as the best turn based combat and party building systems of any game
So Persona is took a perfected gameplay loop and wrapped it with a delicious social sim game without fricking up what made SMT so much fun in the first place
FF's solution was to throw all of it's gameplay systems in the trash to "cast a wider net"
Do you see the difference?
>which is genuinely unimpeachable as the best turn based combat and party building systems of any game
Saga Scarlet Grace's system is better and doesn't devolve to weakness/crit spam.
>Persona is built around SMT's demon fusion and press turn system (the one-more system is basically a watered down press turn system but its close enough) which is genuinely unimpeachable as the best turn based combat
I agree. The only system that could debate it is Grandia's system
persona with 5 got the "niche japanese game now getting traction" bonus. The kind of "I can't rate badly this game because it's supossed to be super good" nu reviewer meme.
The game is absolute trash and I say this as someone who played all of them and got the deluxe edition day one. Idealistic juvenile trash everywhere, terrible cast, morning cartoon villains, and the most padded game in history. No wonder it got delayed 2 or 3 years, atlus was completely lost with the game and you can't tell they didn't know what the frick to do with it, it feels like random shit badly stuck together.
>The kind of "I can't rate badly this game because it's supossed to be super good" nu reviewer meme.
every single day I am reminded how much stupider and more moronic Gankerzoomers get
But it's true, reviewers are terrible in general and don't know what makes a game good or not specially this recent years with it becoming popular and so much newbies entering the medium and analyzing it. They mostly say what people want to hear or what they expect people to think about the game.
It's the same reason DS2 got a better score than DS1, because a lot of them noticed they were fricking moronic with how big and great it became among users and went full in with DS2 as a "same but better because it's a sequel", when in fact it was nothing but garbage.
Same for P5, barely anyone played these games but it had a very strong small fanbase with a lot of praise for it and hype for it, and when it came out they gave it a good score to not look like morons, when the game is nothing but a dev hell ridden mess.
But don't worry, the game has already some standard criticisms among users they now know of and next time if it keeps the same "badly paced" calendar system, no diverstiy, and other shit you can bet it won't get closer to 90+ on meta even if it's a better game. It's more, just wait for P3R to release and not get even close to the original because of the no female mc, fes content, and buzzwords like "missing qol" etc. This is how they operate.
jesus christ this might be the dumbest fricking post ive read in 14 years on Ganker
>Idealistic juvenile trash
You mean not putting up with corrupt dealership is bad? Wow anon, you're so intelligent
It's pretty cool. It's definitely flawed and not as good as 3 and 4 but it's not absolute trash by any means.
being jaded doesnt make you smart
you are poisoning yourself with cynicism
Persona 5 is smart enough to appeal to their fanbase and assume said fanbase will grow organically over time.
Final Fantasy XVI has thrown out everything their fanbase used to like in order to fish for growth with new audiences.
Those are two strategically very different ways to handle your growth.
>Persona 5 is smart enough to appeal to their fanbase
lmao, if it was, then P5 would have good writing.
moron, the main selling point of Persona is how appealing it looks and plays. Good style, good music, cute girls you can date, epic boss battles, entry level philosophical debates for midwits, everything is there.
>But muh I don't like it!
Then you are just not their main target public.
>the main selling point of Persona is how appealing it looks and plays. Good style, good music, cute girls you can date, epic boss battles, entry level philosophical debates for midwits, everything is there.
The gameplay loop is also very addictive when it's not locking you into hour-long cutscenes
>Implying you need good writting to appeal to a fanbase
Do you renember how big the twilight and harry potter books where?
>Final Fantasy XVI has thrown out everything their fanbase used to like in order to fish for growth with new audiences.
It worked for zelda
BOTW still has the same DNA as the rest of the franchise, you can draw the line from Legend of Zelda on NES to BOTW as an evolution of those concepts. there is literally nothing Final Fantasy about XVI, they use a lot of similar names and crystals and stuff but it has absolutely nothing in common with 90% of the other numbered series. it's baffling stupid that Square greenlit this.
There's distinct zelda elements from the very first game that botw abandoned. It's like if they released an open world metroid game without any of the metroidvania elements and then you have people going "you know, this is more metroid than all the others because if you go back to the first game, it was a lot more non linear than the later ones, this is just going back its roots", ignoring that it pretty much abandoned everything the series was to do that.
how many variations of OoT do you need?
You know OoT didn't start that right? OoT is like alttp in 3d which is just a more fleshed out zelda 1.
Persona has stayed true it itself, it isn't being made by moronic buttholes like Yoshi P that are embarrassed to be working on JRPGs
>Old FF
>Success because they are bringing new art style or visuals to the player
>new FF
>art style is realism, visuals are worse than the best out there, like naughty dog's or GOW's visuals
>Persona
>Success because they are focus on bringing unique visual & presentations, and that catches the audiences' attentions
>FF
>Abandon what makes them popular and beloved
>Persona keep what makes them popular and beloved
Basically, each new FF is so different that they are basically rerolling the dice and hope it rolls nat20 every time.
Persona rolled a 18, thinks it's good enough, so they decided to stop rolling.
Persona fans have no taste and are incredibly easy to please. Just make a game where they can romance and date underage anime women and they will buy 3 copies.
Yoshi P thinks there's some sort of stigma against JRPGs but that's far from the truth, Persona isn't trying to be something it's not.
yoshi-p wants to be recognized as a good producer world wide, Atlus makes good games but they only appeal to permavirgin turbo weeaboos.
Can't blame Yoshi-p for wanting to be accomplished on the world stage and bring a wider range of prestige.
I still do not understand how anybody likes Persona 5. The turn-based gameplay is braindead.
Final Fantasy has a rich 35 year history spanning multiple directors, writers, and companies.
Persona is just a spinoff of the SMT franchise that surpassed it because SMT is bottom of the barrel JRPG shovelware. The entire Persona series has one good game and that is 3.
>Why did Persona succeed and grow while Final Fantasy failed?
Final Fantasy outright gave up on its genre. Persona, even with radical changes over the years, kept innovating for better or worse within the same genre. And built an audience.
Final Fantasy hit their peak sales and then immediately followed it up by making the next entry a fricking MMO. And now the games are even fricking action games instead of RPGs.
The crowd that made Final Fantasy's core did not stick around while it kept trying to chase new crowds.
>Final Fantasy hit their peak sales and then immediately followed it up by making the next entry a fricking MMO.
I think this did a lot more damage than most people realize. It was the beginning of the end. Ironically, I think it could have been avoided if they'd just made it a spinoff entry instead of giving it a main number. Doing so changed how people perceived the series, and their expectations of it.
Its crazy to think FFX was planned to be a MMO too.
Concurrent with Persona's incline after P3, Final Fantasy was destroying its reputation as a leading JRPG series and moving toward action gameplay. Atlus just seamlessly filled the market that Square-Enix walked away from.
Now that I think about it, do we have a mod for the pc release yet that makes the game more challenging?
FF has made like 19 mainline games so far, plus shitloads of spin offs.
Most if not all have sold well, most generally well received by players/critics. Where did FF fail exactly?
Square Enix is moronic, or at least had a very bad episode. X got a sequel. XII was decent enough to get some compilation treatment, and VII got its spinoffs. So the suits got stupid and arrogant and decided to plan on that for the next game, even announced specific titles in advance. Then XIII came out and it was shit. Fabula Nova gets broken up, nothing wants to be associated with that shit anymore. VS XIII devours resources, hopes and dreams like a motherfricker, while at least one man in the wrong place gets way too taken with Lightning. At a time when they really need to knock it out of the park with a really good new XIV, we get... TWO sequels to XIII. The FFXIV needed? A fricking MMO! Finally, XV is coming, and what are we told and shown? No clean break, we're salvaging from the VS XIII money pit and also PLANNING AN EXPANDED MULTIMEDIA PROJECT AGAIN. Now here we are, a new era where FF is only relevant to MMOngoloids.
Final Fantasy became ashamed of its identity
Persona pandered to waifugays.
So did Senran Kagura, why did that series die while Persona flourished?
Final Fantasy has been all over the place and has different directors who have different visions on what a FF title is. Persona, as it is now, was under the direction of Hashino for 3 entries who kept refining his systems with each game and stuck to the core of it being about a group of High School kids somewhere in Japan. P6 will be interesting because we're either getting a departure, which I doubt because this franchise is way too important dollar-wise to Atlus, or we are getting a director who continues to build on Hashino's work.
Better or at least more consistent design that didn't double down on abandoning core elements of the series.
Isn't every other persona game completely different? Ones like a fighting game
>Isn't every other persona game completely different? Ones like a fighting game
Technically yes, but they're spinoff titles and don't count. Numbered entries from 3 onwards (and their updated versions) follow the same formula. 1 & 2 are a bit more like the mainline Shin Megami Tensei games (but not quite).
2 uses an auto battle/crpg-like system. 1 is more like pre-Nocturne SMT.
Thanks anon, I haven't actually played 2 yet so I made an incorrect assumption.
Eternal punishment is worth playing and quite decent. Innocent Sin is a combination of too easy but somehow extremely grindy. It's too bad game patches weren't a thing back in the PS1 because innocent sin will forever be shit.
> 1 & 2 are a bit more like the mainline Shin Megami Tensei games (but not quite).
I always dislike this statement (as someone who's played both persona and smt, new and old), like it's one of those statements that makes people go "ok, makes sense to me" so they start spreading it around but once you put it under the microscope, it doesn't really hold. There's nothing that really makes P1 and P2 more SMT than the new games are, like they're just as different to SMT in terms of tone and story, they're just as different in terms of gameplay but also share the same similarities (so the demons, the skills, the elements and so on.) Like I guess the closest thing you could say is that the first persona was a first person dungeon crawler, but even SMT abandoned that for the most part from Nocturne. What people really mean is that old persona lacks the calendar and social elements that the new persona games which smt also happens to lack, but so does 99% of the other games. Like if Persona 1 and 2 were releases as mainline SMT games, they would be out of place, they would not fit at all, if you're going in with the idea that "this will be like SMT" then you're going in with the wrong expectations.
Okay anon, I'll cop to this. I did say "(but not quite)" but you're right, they're not as similar as I implied.
>Numbered entries from 3 onwards (and their updated versions) follow the same formula.
That's a bit ambiguous. What I mean is Persona 3, Persona 4 and Persona 5 follow a consistent formula and so do their re-releases: (Persona 3: FES; Persona 3: Portable; Persona 3: Reload; Persona 4: Golden; Persona 5: Royal)
Because no one but the Persona fandom plays it.
Having unfortunately met people in the real world who like Persona games, I will never play them.
Even if the games are masterpieces of software I will bar my children from playing them. At least playing some FF games I don't think it's a guarantee they will try going to school wearing cat ears and a skirt.
In what way? Like sales, SMT/ P is a skintag on SE's dick at best.
FF is far more famous and popular than Persona.
Fame is fleeting
It's been like 30 years
>It's been like 30 years
And its fame has been declining for the last 20.
persona shit is selling only because no one is bullying weebs at school
Final Fantasy 13
Appealing to trannies while FF appeals to boomers.
FF no longer appeals to boomers, they dropped it somewhere during the six consecutive stumbles and missteps the series took.
who the frick cares about midsona? seriously. extremely burnt out that uninteresting as frick franchise for 15 yr old - mid twenties weebs. i can't believe i used to be invested in this shit. at least final fantasy games are interesting even if divisive and controversial every mainline game. persona consistently uninnovative with hack directors
>who the frick cares about midsona
If you don't like the games that's fine anon, but you seem to be under the impression that disliking it is a personality trait, and I am here to tell you it does not make you sound as cool and mature as you think it does.
reminder that Persona 5 beat FFXV for RPG of the Year at the 2017 Game Awards
but 7 Remake beat Persona 5 Royal at the 2020 Game Awards
Jackie Chan once said:
>keep make same shit, one day it sticks on wall
>stop make same shit, one day it fall from wall
>wall of shit is eternal
Persona is more of life sim than a jrpg, im sure you could remove the jrpg stuff and people would still buy it.
>Persona is more of life sim than a jrpg
Eh, not really. I say this as someone who likes the sim side slightly more than the JRPG side, but the life sim elements are pretty light and function mostly to buff your stats for the JRPG part. You don't even technically have to engage with the life sim parts, you'll just be quite a bit weaker if you don't. You do have to do the JRPG parts, so that's more integral to the game.
For it to be just a life sim, it would need some heavy retooling. And I don't think it would be a great idea, because the two sides of the game work very well together.
Persona broke through with Persona 3 and never changed it's formula thereby maintaining it's core fanbase and growing that core fanbase with every new game. Final Fantasy tried to reinvent itself ever iteration thereby losing a good chunk of it's core fanbase and having to build a new one every installment. One found out what it wanted to be and stayed true to that vision while the other twisted itself into an unrecognizable abomination to chase trends.
Persona 3 still sold very meagerly. 4 Is when an initial release passed 500K and then Golden entries on Steam and Vita are each the first million sellers respectively. As another anon said and got scoffed at, P5 is the real flare up in doing nearly double its nearest competitor in its initial releases and maintaining the most rereleases on the most platforms with good performance on the original Royal and the Steam release of the remaster. Overall, it doesn't do very well, but 5 is the big shot that sort of permeated youtube and weeb communities who were fans well before ever playing it, contributing to the mindshare and maybe future sales. As other anons have said, I have a doubt that 6 or other sequels will even approach that level of success unless they manage to tap into the aesthetic/character appeal that got so many on board the bandwagon. Might still do well, though.
FF still sells, FF7R has been an eyebrow raiser with what we know and FF16 is looking very, very shaky. Meh.
It's hard to say how much of 5's comparative success is from finding the right appeal, and how much is from being released at the right time. 4's appeal was quite high as well but it came out as a niche title when game streaming barely existed, so it didn't get a chance to reach wider audiences. And yeah, Golden has been released on PSP and PC since then but an update/port of a then-niche 2008 game isn't likely to gain a lot of traction.
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think 4 was any less apt than 5 in terms of aesthetics and appeal, and if they just keep doing more of the same, 6's success is all but assured.
P3R will be a good benchmark for the franchise
Persona knows what it is and embraces it. FF is still fumbling, chasing trends and trying to find a new identity.
because now that video games are more popular than ever before tons of pathetic lonely homosexuals can play "loser wish fulfillment simulator"
FF is tired and losing the plot of what made the series great to begin with
Mori knows fellas in the fevellas..
If persona had 16 mainline games I assure you some of them would be bad
The power of zoomers. I realized this when I couldn’t understand the appeal behind Persona 3 after coming from Nocturne.
they make a type of game and then try to improve on it instead of desperately flailing around following industry trends
Persona 6 will also get backlash due to no blacks in the cast.
Most persona characters are Asian, isn't that diverse enough?
Persona in totality of all the main games and spinoffs, has sold 18 million. Persona reviews well because people are quick to look past faults, but if FF16 for instance didn't have full voice acting people would talk about it. Or you have people complaining the game starts somewhat grounded, and that goes for P5 too when it starts about a coach fricking a student leading them to attempted suicide then both games end with fighting god basically.
Like this board will talk about Persona 5 being a huge success, when it and Royal just recently passed 9 million global. That is a success, and somehow TLOU2 is a massive flop at over 10 million?
>inb4 people come and explain budgets that they have no clue about
>this moron thinks P5 cost anywhere near TLOU2 to make
lol
lmao even
Except they can both be successes moron. The idea is people think Persona is much bigger than it is, when in reality it was P5 overperforming for whatever reason. Its like how Nier Automata has sold very well, but Nier Replicant couldn't capitalize on that revitalization at all. Do you expect P3 Reload to sell 4-5 million in a year?
>Do you expect P3 Reload to sell 4-5 million in a year?
No, because P5 didn't either
>but Nier Replicant couldn't capitalize on that revitalization at all
>sold 1.5 million as of last Nov
>double of what the original sold in TEN YEARS
you are a fricking moron double Black person
kek
and like a 6th of what Automata did. Some games are just lightning in a bottle.
Except this is basically peak popularity of the franchise. Its not unreasonable to expect newer games after a massive hit to take advantage of that and keep it rolling.
All I am saying is people have no clue what studios deem a success or what they put into it. 7R had insane doomposting about its sales here and they greenlit two fricking sequels. 7R did 5m in like 3 years.
you mean budgets you have no clue about
*Persona 5, Royal, Remaster, Dancing and two subsequent versions, and Strikers recently passed 9 million units globally
Good UI, snappy combat, excellent sense of progression from dungeons to daily social life, excellent music, monster collecting, Japan.
Atlus starts trends, SE just follows them
wait till persona gets like a 17th iteration as well. people will get sick of it too.
fun fact
P5 + P5R sold 8.3 million
FF7R + FF7R Intergrade didn't
I distinctly remember jrpg threads on the internet over the years slowly moving from "dude wat if FF7 remake" to "dude when is persona 5" as P4 gained a huge cult following
Even OG FF7 only sold 14 million. I think people generally blow FF's popularity out of proportion.