This. Helldivers 2 is riddled with cheaters as-is. Everyone is running around with infinite warbonds/supercash/samples, infinite ammo/reload speed stratagem weapons, infinite stratagem calldowns, infinite HP, etc. They couldn't operate a PVP mode if their lives depended on it.
Have you been ignoring the Overwatch discussions for 8 years? Perfect case study. >game comes out >it's fun >0.3% of your playerbase b***hes endlessly about "muh balance" >game gets throttled around for years, constantly changing how it feels >run off half the people who enjoyed it for what it was on Day 1 >casual players are fine with loot box mechanics >again, 0.3% of the playerbase b***hes about it, ends up becoming a fricking court case >OW2 drops >pussified fanbase is all that's left >can't even say "you're a b***h" to someone without catching a suspension >every season fricks up the balance again >all because like 2000 people went on autistic tirades on reddit and twitter
It's not even the comp gays this time around, it's just the moronic balance team. There isn't any real comp players left ever since people realized that Blizzard devs don't play their own game. The game turned from a fun casual class based shooter to yet another first person MOBA. How they took some of the fundamentals of TF2 and then fumbled this hard is beyond me.
Yeah OW had one of the starkest transformations I've seen where voice chat went from people howling and screaming laughing to everyone locked in doing tense callouts and being dead silent when a match ended, win or lose
>enemy team is well balanced and trying super hard to win >our team is just 6 soldiers camping the payload and spamming "we're all soldiers now" >win
i miss it so much
you're right, except the loot box stuff
belgium was really close to banning it on grounds of child gambling
if belgium did it, then rest of eu would follow
even china has a harsh stance on it, and requires you to reveal loot %
lootboxes are utter dogshit, but ow lootboxes are soemthing you get my just leveling up right? So it is not that bad. Not sure if you can buy some, but the real issue is csgo. >buy lootbox >sell lootbox >hope for rare shit to sell it again >go to betting sites for weapon skins to make money
You also got them by winning matches every week so even with complete random you could manage to get lucky 9 times a week for your 3 free ones. Now with the total aids pass you need to treat the game like a second job if you want anything.
yes. A battle pass is not bad, in theory it should be fun grinding a little bit and giving incencitives, but fricks sake they turned it into dogshit. f2p is the biggest issue of all. Gacha ruined everything.
He brings it up because, it was that whole case in Belgium that got blizzard to come up with than even worse way to handle skins. Now paying absurd amounts for the out flat. Loot boxes microtransations suck, but sane people understood that was how the game kept people playing. It was one of those cases where a loud minority made every thing worse, by b***hing about shit to levels it should have never reached.
You are actually clueless the OWL was planned from the beginning they were always trying to make it an e-sport. Blizzard don't listen to anybody. Nobody. All of their lead devs and decision makers are the biggest homosexuals in the industry.
Nobody got what they wanted because none of your feedback is ever read.
Jeff stated explicitly that he wanted to let the e-sport develop naturally with the players but the Blizzard CEO wanted to force the "biggest esports in history", an esports version of the NFL or some bullshit like that. You can't exactly say no to the CEO demands so Jeff quit when they kept making moronic demand after moronic demand. The new Blizz CEO is a moronic woman who fricking ruined CoD so expect more of the same
>but the Blizzard CEO wanted to force the "biggest esports in history", an esports version of the NFL or some bullshit like that.
People don't give Mike Morhaime enough shit for this, he flat out said he wouldn't greenlight any game that couldn't become an esport and forced esports on Hearthstone and HotS when they weren't designed to be ultra-competitive games. He was a SCgay at heart and obsessed over esports
this so fricking much, i wouldn't mind it if pvp was actually fun. but these days it's all this really high pressure 100% srs business where the game expects you to treat it like a second life while giving you literally nothing in return. everything that you achieve in modern pvp games goes to the publisher, in old school pvp you could at least leave with a smile on your face.
I don't think we'll ever see another game like TF2 tbh. It's the only FPS game that can be played both casually and competitively, with both communities being extremely separated.
It's also why the game is still relevant in pop culture today. There's just no other game like it. Even small holiday updates spike the player count regularly, showing that there's definitely people interested in playing the game even today. I'm just sad that there's only a single dev left on the team now, with contractors being hired every few months to push out new cases. The incoming 64 bit update is just proof that TF2 has been and will continue to be in maintenance mode for years
Like, I get it. It's been 20 years. The passionate people behind the big class updates, behind the characters and the weapons, they've moved on and went to different games or retired, but you'd think there would be at least a few people at Valve that would try to kill the bot situation, maybe have a month where they tweak things like ambassador falloff/ auto reload for syringe guns/ scorch shot damage numbers/ect and just gauge what people think.
And finish the last fricking comic holy shit I'm still mad they decided to just randomly stop
Sure but the casual CS experience is almost identical to the competitive experience. All big eSports follow this model deliberately. A new player is going to be following almost all of the same rules as the top pros in these sorts of games, unlike TF2.
>A new player is going to be following almost all of the same rules as the top pros in these sorts of games
I think that’s more of a result of CS’s design that’s remain unchanged for 25 years. Like most great competitive games it was made to be fun first and just happened to also be a good competitive game.
The casual CS used to be 32-64 man dust/office servers and shit like surf/zombies/minigames/jailbreak. Then matchmaking happened, and then CS2 set everything back to square one, with zero people playing legacy CSGO and third worlders on CSS/1.6
3 months ago
Anonymous
Good times. Modern games are doing the same thing now unfortunately. Just look at something like Valorant. The casual experience is identical to the competitive one.
I stopped playing TF2 regularly when they started all the nerfs. The axetinguisher “””rework””” was a sight of things to come where only the dev pet classes like sniper annd soldier are allowed weapon variants that aren’t shitty gimmick memes.
i still remember those days in battlefield 3, there was this one time when the teams got stuck in two rooms with only one corridor between them so everyone kept throwing grenades at each other.
>keeping players from interacting with one another
This is the most important part imo. Competitive games are inherently social experiences. You need to be able to look your opponent in the (proverbial) eye and call them a homosexual. Sequestering everyone into these isolated matchmaking hugboxes hollows out any sense of accomplishment you feel for winning and replaces it with a soulless arbitrary ranking system.
Fighting games are the perfect case study of this. It’s no accident that they peaked when arcades were still popular, where you stood right next to your opponent on one cabinet and could possible get shanked if you talked too much shit. And now, a once celebrated genre is basically on life support because it’s all boring ass matchmaking with no way for players to really communicate with each other.
> And now, a once celebrated genre is basically on life support because it’s all boring ass matchmaking with no way for players to really communicate with each other.
No it’s because people are good at games now so naturally a 1v1 game with high level of skill expression can’t be played casually and win.
How did we regress so badly? Remember EVE online, spaceship MMO with battles invloving hundreds if not thousands of players? A single global server?
Yeah that one. It came out in 2003. We have all the hardware and talent, but zero ambition to do anything with it.
At least we were around to experience Team Fortress Fridays with dedicated servers and people that recognized you when you went in. Trash talking on all talk servers with the boys, one being silent for just a bit too long, making you realize he was Spy, only to die from him. Custom maps that were fun to explore, the hype as shit 3 day update reveals. They hold a special place in my heart that none of this quick play shit will ever taint, because they're golden memories of a brighter time that, God willing, people one day will be able to experience again
The death of community servers really was the death of PvP games for me. I don't want to play gay matchmaking ranked BS for sweats, I just want to have fun.
E-sports was already a thing with CS in the mid 2000s he's moronic. It's the consoleification of gaming that caused servers browsers to be replaced with matchmaking that ruined it.
difference is that esports were local and solely managed by a small section of the community themselves
now games are made directly to pander to esportsgays and esports are managed by the developers themselves
hes right, pvp fps died because of the system around the game design push you to be sweaty try hards, dev even killed dedicated server with garbage matchmaking where you can`t get to know people, just replace with another batch of randoms that feels like bots on your next match, pvp fps these days just feel pointless to play except having a good k/d when socializing is part of the fun going online
I wonder what genius managed to sell the idea of making esports look more lucrative than making the appeal to a larger audience who dont give a frick about the competitive angle
what is this homosexualy obsession with 'player interaction'? The LAST thing I want to do after a long day is chat with some 18yo Black person on the internet.
It's not about "chatting" it's about little/self moderation to allow players to do what ever stupid shit they want to during a match and have the players in those lobbies self regulate instead of screaming to the devs to ban everyone and remove anything that upsets them.
because in the end pvp is only about who has the best internet connection and who can press the button fastest, people are getting tired of it. just taking a cursory glance on what people are talking about in skull and bones shows that most people prefer to just avoid pvp all together.
>because in the end pvp is only about who has the best internet connection and who can press the button fastest
low iq beliefs like this somehow being the majority really makes you think. i bet chess is all about who can move their pieces the fastest, right? nothing about skill lmao
you never made an argument. im not actually sure you even understood the words you read. i think you got ass blasted and replied.
in all fields again
3 months ago
Anonymous
Why are the people that act super smart always incredibly dumb? Where do you take that confidence from?
3 months ago
Anonymous
pretty easy to have confidence when you 1) completely missed the point because you have 2nd grade reading comprehension and 2) never made an argument to begin wit
3 months ago
Anonymous
Thanks for showing me that ironically, you're underage kek
3 months ago
Anonymous
For the next exercise you need to write a paragraph summarizing the main thesis of the following post:
>because in the end pvp is only about who has the best internet connection and who can press the button fastest
low iq beliefs like this somehow being the majority really makes you think. i bet chess is all about who can move their pieces the fastest, right? nothing about skill lmao
. The paragraph must be at least 4 sentences long with proper punctuation.
Pvo used to be designed to be fun. Now it's designed to appeal up esports leagues, sell cosmetics, lootboxes and mtx, battle passes, cheating is done by bots that just kill people 24/7 and nobody knows their purpose. They could be moderated but companies won't hire two employees to do that so????
People got way too fricking sweaty with it. Leagues and score brackets are toxic for online communities, progression should just be through XP and kills, none of this diamond or platinum shit. Winning is fricking everything to them, playing doesn't matter so just go meta with everything, gotta smurf too or else your dopamine drip might lessen. PVP should just be two balance-randomized teams based on who's queuing up with shitters and nolifers getting paired together.
I don't enjoy getting hatemail. I don't like that I'm clearly ruining this other person's day.
Hackers are more prevalent now.
Also most people today are pussies who will report you for milquetoast bants.
Because you can't call people Black folk in VC anymore. Unironically. The fact people don't get to properly vent their frustrations anymore without getting permanently banned made pvp unbearable.
Wrong, it's dipshits like you that ruined it for the rest of us. When I was a kid, no one EVER just spewed racist shit in voice, being annoying meant more than just saying a single word ad nauseam. And make no mistake, that's why you started saying it, it wasn't just a general insult or anything, we used homosexual for that, you homosexual.
SBMM creates a pseudo-esports environment where you constantly have to give it your all to see success which becomes tiring after a while. Just because I'm better than the average doesn't mean I want to constantly be in full sweat mode pretending like the game is serious business and I might just want to have fun.
Ever wondered why smurfs are running rampant in every esports game ever?
No what you’re discovering is that the game you’re playing is dogshit for anything but “just turn your brain off bro” play.
Play a different game CoDgay
>Want to play *insert literally any PVP game here* for fun >either have to sweat my balls off to get even a modicum of a chance of winning or get completely fricking stomped by the enemy team >the magical fairy land of a fun and balanced match happens once in a blue moon
No anon it's not skill based anymore, it's engagement based because they know room temperature morons like you can't tell the difference
I'm all for playing with people of my skill level.
However, what I don't want is to play with morons doing 2-28 and zero seconds on the objective on my team to balance out your winrate. Just slo little timmy on the opposite gets his free win handed to him to make him play the game more so he can steam his mommy's credit card and buy the super cool furry skin on the store.
meanwhile you have people routinely melting down on lobby because they lost samples while fricking around the extraction ship instead of staying close to the hatch to jump in immediately and it's our fault
I had a guy tk me last night because I picked up his sample case after he died and he thought I was stealing it. Black person you get samples no matter what so long as whoever holding them extracts. I know this because I've received them as mission rewards on missions where I know I didn't pick any up.
I'm that case, I don't concern myself with what flavor of shit flies eat. It's clear most of the Internet is now third world morons that flock to free to play multiplayer shit. No thanks.
>pure casual fun with co-op campaign, custom games, forge, community sharing, and low stakes matchmaking >gays blamed it for ruining multiplayer pvp >343 hired people who also hated it >modern 343 sees Halo as a "competitive" shooter >franchise has been deader than dirt for years because of misdirection and poor management >multiplayer pvp has only gotten worse without it
i hate you all
Streamgays, TAtrannies, and wiki warriors have ruined multiplayer forever. Everything needs to be turned into an optimization spreadsheet.
If you're gonna have that shit anyway, might as well have it to work towards a common goal.
>PvP back in the day >morons having fun, custom servers, lots of people talking, few cheaters, esports was local, cheaters were usually just trolling and blatantly ovious, no SBMM or EBMM so if you were good at the game you could win most games and tell who on your team/enemy team was also skilled, nobody expected or pressured noobs to be good >games were made by actual game developers instead of comity and investor approved think tanks so players had more freedom to have fun and less monetization
>PvP today >rampant fricking cheating with every 12 year old running some kind of background hard to detect cheat treating every game like it's a contest >nobody uses their mics anymore except when they suddenly want to have an autism rage fit >Engagement Based and Skill Based matchmaking trying to turn every round into a slot machine addiction based round >everything is pushed to be an e-sport and every other homosexual has a YT or TTV in their name trying to be the next *insert famous online homosexual of your choice here* >Impossible to find a game where you can just dick around and have fun on custom servers, everything has to be spotless and in a controlled environment or else the boomer investors throw a fit
I used to love playing CoD1 with one of my friends. Nowadays he's convinced literally everyone is cheating so he himself purchased some elaborate setup with 2 linked PCs and hardware ID spoofing just so he can run his stupid paid aimbots without getting banned, because god forbid someone is actually just better than him or caught him by surprise.
don't forget how cheating is much more common because there's no more humans overlooking things in their own servers, just automated systems
If it wasn't for dogshit matchmaking where every PvP game is anti fun, there wouldn't be as many cheaters. The addiction/engagement based matchmaking is making more people turn to cheating just to have some fun
Basically. When the only thing the game pushes you towards is getting kills, people that suck at getting kills are often going to cheat to do it. In a more casual game focused on just having fun with it and not your performance there's less incentive to cheat.
god this is why i unironically fell out of most modern pvp games , and that's because of how garbage the matchmaking is
I guess that's why I can only tolerate tf2 and unironically warthunder cause it has no sbmm / can call people slurs to your hearts content
>Why did PVP games die and why does everyone hate them now
We left dedicated servers that you could join instantly tailored to your tastes, were locally modded by real humans playing with you, and people played for fun with the same players for multiple rounds together.
Now all the control is in the developer/publisher hands to create a "skill"based matchmaking system designed to keep you playing as long as possible against people you'll never see again after a single match. There's more comradery at public restroom urinals than modern FPSs where homosexuals and their discord friends can mass report you for any reason real or not from saying an innocuous insult or joke to not playing as hard as you can using metagay builds, either resulting in an automatic ban by a algorithm threshold being reached. Additionally you're forced to play with crossplay children using aim assist that's more overtuned than most real cheats >but da admins abused me back in the day for being obnoxious 🙁
and now everyone else is upset we have to play with (You) at gunpoint so we all moved to small group coop PvE
>overly sweaty teammates and enemies >meta slaves that force you to use a handful of loadouts/characters/weapons to keep up >absolutely shit products delivered at launch
Apart from server issues, it’s sad how it’s surprising how Helldivers delivered a prettt content dense game for its price and playstyle even though that should be the fricking norm. The comedy also comes from Starship trooper esque cool satire. Had this game been made by most dev teams the “Satire” would be marvel tier comedy, fat black women showing the ignorant white guy how it’s done and a very “deep” and POWERFUL moment where the characters must realize “I think it’s Humanity that’s the true problem/horror/terror in the universe”
all the most played and popular games are all PvP games
I only play PvP games when they release, after 2 months the tryhards and sweats settle in and the game becomes unplayable
CS2 is already there, cheating is more rampant than ever but people still play it. It's the canary in the coal mine for this stuff and players have shown they'll just stick to their forever games no matter how shitty the experience gets
Warframe technically has a pvp thing but nobody ever used it. Yeah it used to have a great community because your success never hinges on anyone else joining so anyone there is a bonus.
Because pvp is only fun between friends and not against some sweaty try hard that thinks he's a competitive gamer at high bronze.
There are enough games with pvp for you Black folk.
PvP => Competitive play => eSports => meta strategies bleeding into casual play => devs patching out fun things because the "pro players" don't like it => unfun bullshit
This slippery slope happens to every competitive game. Don't need it. The finals looks fun as a concept but I refuse to touch a game that people think is a job.
>Why did PVP games die and why does everyone hate them now
Other than fighting games, pvp games just seem like a hassle. >gotta deal with teammates not playing the objective or being a narcissist, thinking they're top 500 >skill based matchmaking even in casual games means everyone has to try their hardest/play meta >lootboxes/battlepass have completely lock cosmetic progression behind paywalls
>pvp game >stuck with 3-5 other moronic homosexuals (i'm one too) >90% of the time we will not like each other >if I try to call them out, I get banned >eventually, don't even communicate, not even with pings (league is removing pings cause it hurts people's feelings FRICKING KEK) >instead play bad on purpose under the guise of being a shitter so that the system doesn't autoflag me
remember when mutliplayer games were like playgrounds you and some kids would play at, no stakes, nothing on the line, you could play how you wanted and the reward was the joy of playing around instead of winning or getting some fricking battle pass skin?
now they're like these hyper competitive sports where winning and increasing your rank is the only thing that matters, and money and prizes and rewards are on the line and you gotta train and keep up with the meta and all this other garbage, and everybody else is an enemy instead of a play partner
that's why PVP games are dead
its for this exact reason i stopped playing pvp mp games (aside from good old stuff like tf2) - everyones obsessed with being a loser nerd sweatlord instead of having fun
just not the same anymore
You have a minority in gaming who claim that all voice chat would be is Black person Black person Black person when its not that at all. But they're the loudest ones so we get half and full time voice chat taken out robbing us of shit like this. Arma Reforger was some of the best fun I had in a long time listening in to the enemy radio
Because it's the most sterile, lifeless genre of gaming. PVP and competitive Game Devs don't just inadvertently kill the fun out of their games in the name of competitiveness and "balance", but they also want to monitor your every move in an effort to protect any sense of wholesome community they think is vital to their game. It's same experience across the board to varying degrees, you play a frustrating game you dont find fun while removing any form of natural interaction you'd have with people youre competing with. At the end you're just hating yourself.
>Get into match >Get spawn camped >Get killed by noscopesweatlord420 >One team is always heavily skewed in skill because the matchmaking is ass >Have to pray to RNJesus to get in a good team >20 weapons, only actually use 2 because everything else is shit and everyone just uses the meta.
Yeah there's no fun to be had here.
>be Call of Duty >learn you can monetize the meta >release a broken OP gun >sell battle pass with said gun, gun packs, and skin packs with said gun >"nerf" it near the end of the season >next season, rinse and repeat >make literally millions every month with this scam
before nu-MW, new weapons were locked behind lootboxes.
BO4 was straight up pay 2 win, the new guns were massively overpowered, like laser LMG that killed in 2 shots
CoD, like other dude-bro games, realized their player base has a collective IQ of a special needs summer camp and has been bending over the players for years, while the players all scream "yes daddy give me more"
No cheat world (fantasy land, not reality) >start game >fun in beginning, everyone is just playing to play >casuals lose interest, fade out >meta comp begins >upper 80% of players not willing to play meta fade out >meta continues and nothing changes, its sweat or lose every game >now its just .5% of the original pop sweating at maximum sdpm (sweat drop per minute) even in casual quick matches
Cheat world (this is reality) >start game >ope, its a shooter, 3rd party software easily translates and lets you cheat for free on day 1 >validity of any round you ever play immediately called into question >cant trust that anyone you play against is just 'really that good' >feel nothing but frustration as you experience the stark difference of a round where someone wasnt cheating their dick off and one where they are but can do nothing about it
Anyways CS2 fricking sucks.
>have a full time job, wife, and dog >playing ow casually >I'm bronze because I'm not trying to sweat >get immediately flick shot by Hanzo from across the map >bronze is supposedly an elo with low mechanical skill
Yeah ok
The spread of information killed it, now anyone just goes online and reads what does most damage and what is the most bullshit shit to win games. There's no variety in gameplay or anything, just everyone trying their hardest to be the sweatest.
>don't try to be a sweaty meta homosexual >get absolutely fricking destroyed >hey guy, we are selling the meta gun for 2000 imaginary distance-yourself-from-the-money-points don't be a b***h and buy it
Engagement Based Matchmaking is what killed it for me. That combined with interaction being all but entirely eliminated makes it feel about as sovlles as possible.
>Cheaters >Aim assist in PC lobbies >EOMM >FOMO seasonal content
These are the reasons why I stopped playing PvP. Just not worth the time when game doesn't respect your commitment at all. FPS scene really needs some indie competition to disrupt predatory market.
That's a fascinating thing, actually. You can most likely blame speedrunning. You see, when you make a game with a high skill ceiling, there's people out there who will go full speedrunner and obsessively seek out pseudo-exploits, metas, and generally grind out thousands upon thousands of hours of the game until their gameplay becomes indistinguishable from hacking. This rapidly starts killing the game for both casual and hardcore players, and the only solution is to start artificially lowering the skill ceiling or ruthlessly enforce skill-based matchmaking. >the sheer number of times people think they're fighting against a hacker but it's just a speed running troony with 7000 hrs on each map.
>great players get faster access to perks which makes them even more dominant
i fricking hate PVP because it widens the skill gap. If anything, terrible players like me should get all the perks and the higher level you get, the more handicaps you should have.
Honest to God, how the frick did the TF2 devs do it? They understood things to an insane degree and when the only valid complaint I can think of is Sniper being Black person dick to face, it's really fascinating looking at how well they balanced map and team size and shit
Because it was autistic chaos in the same way old Halo BTB was. Not everything has to be perfectly balanced or it upsets the compgays because people are just having a fricking blast playing it.
Like Op Locker on Battlefield. Its an objectively shit map but its the best map because its fricking chaos.
>Focus games development on fun and variety instead of being a perfect e-sport >give players a lot of freedom and agency to play in whatever way they want >wtf why won't our player base die and why are most of them positive
Three major points. 1: each class has a wildly different difficulty and skill set tied to them. Not everyone has to be the lord of reaction speeds and full screen flicks to absolutely dominate. 2: The teams are quite large and you're not expected to have more than a handful of VERY good players and as such their effectiveness is EXTREMELY mitigated because of how much meat you have to chew through to actually team wipe. 3: The absolutely highest impact classes are some of the easiest making it so that even a braindead moron can be extremely valuable by just clicking a class and clicking on teammates/near enemies.
With these things all perfectly brewed together you can have a skyscraper-tier skill ceiling and literal struggle-to-move-and-shoot-at-the-same-time skill floor and still have a relatively balanced game.
Boomers getting old and unable to aim or learn new things anymore GENUINELY is why. They could do these things btw, but theyre lazy and "just wanna unwind with a bowl of weed bro"
>L4D was my least-played orange box game.
L4D was another terrible co-op game. The maps were far too linear and boring. Helldivers 2 is actually closer to the ideal but in the opposite direction (the maps are way too fricking big) and nobody wants that time commitment.
IMO, the ideal is how Battlefront II did it. You fight as a team through multiple large arenas. As you gain victory, your team gets teleported to more focused and deadly arenas. It's not as "organic" as Helldivers 2, but it feels more like an actual game. And you can drop in and out as you please.
>L4D was my least-played orange box game.
L4D was another terrible co-op game. The maps were far too linear and boring. Helldivers 2 is actually closer to the ideal but in the opposite direction (the maps are way too fricking big) and nobody wants that time commitment.
IMO, the ideal is how Battlefront II did it. You fight as a team through multiple large arenas. As you gain victory, your team gets teleported to more focused and deadly arenas. It's not as "organic" as Helldivers 2, but it feels more like an actual game. And you can drop in and out as you please.
L4D is indeed a bad "coop" game, but the exact reason why is also a popular one
L4D is braindead as FRICK. Its a mind numbing activity, with shit weapons and shit objectives. The interactivity with anything is non existant, and it's more of a social activity rather than a team effort against any challenge. You mow down unthreatening hordes of zombies until the game cheapshots you with a "special" one that needs to be killed/disabled by another player. This is the only moment where you interact with any other player. Its so basic that will be fricked up by braindead players as well, leading to "toxicity" everytime. Because you're on a kiddie pool, and you get mad when you get pissed on.
In contrast to other coop games, like Killing Floor, enemies are a threat every single one with clear pros and cons and communication is important to disable them efficiently. Not GTFO levels of communication, but better. Same as Deep Rock Galactic.
Helldivers 2 strikes a good balance where dumbasses can farm bugs on low levels and hard sandbox gameplay at higher difficulties and Bots (the barren wasteland of matchmaking because shitters can't kill bots)
So when it comes down to why no PvP? because its really easier to make PvE than to deal with shitters directly. You feed them and they go about their lives. If L4D did it, so can any other game. PvP would take more balancing and will in the end just piss shitters off when they can't full auto a Tank and think they did anything but LMB.
>friendly fire
it's part of the game. If you could just call down stratagems and sprint through it the game would have zero challenge >try-hards
tier 7 and above its to be expected. Personally I haven't come across anyone that bad
1: The only thing you get for being good at PvP is harder opponents and shittier team mates to enforce 50/50 win rate.
2: Since there is no gameplay altering rewards they can offer so as to not upset balance, you will only ever get cosmetics for playing.
3: Being able to play PvP games at all relies on others participating. If nobody other than you is, you don't get to play.
4: Despite being inherently competitive, all PVP games are hellbent on punishing players for 'toxicity', often times while they are selling emotes and win screens designed to tilt opponents.
5: Balance/meta gays ruin anything interesting. If you have a build that upsets them, they will brigade devs until your fun is patched out.
>cheaters >crossplay >catering to consoles, controller kids and general just adhd spastics by implementing massively overtuned aim assist that completely outperforms the average mouse and keyboard player >shitty balance decisions based around the top .1% of the player base
Pick your poison.
I hate this headline. He's lying. Adding PvP is expensive, complicated and risky (fragmentation). This whole thing about "toxic" is virtue signalling globohomosexual lies.
Yeah bros, lets never make multiplayer PvP games because they're "toxic". It's not like the majority of top games are competitive PvP.
The toxicity is what is good.
Can't someone make a decent PvP where I can freely call people Black folk again? I'm tired of getting suspensions or bans for just saying GG.
Calling people Black folk isn't even toxic. Only real toxicity you see in video games to begin with, is comp gays getting butthurt and taking out their profound ego-pain on others.
PvP is only fun if it is for shits and giggles. The moment there is anything to gain (even completely meaningless shit like ranks), people will begin to metagame so they may show others how 1337 they are.
Remove all notions of prestige and rewards from PvP and it will be fun for everyone involved.
If a game isn’t fun when people metagame then the game just isn’t well designed, this attitude just facilitates a shitty race to the bottom attitude where it’s bad for a game to let you be good
There is a sea of difference between being good at a game and being a metagaming wiki warrior who lets only a peer reviewed source dictate what is and isn't a valid gameplay choice. I listen to the first person. They have a soul.
The game can let you be good, it just doesn't have to pat you on the back for it in the form of rewards and titles to make you feel more inclined to "shit on kids". If there is nothing to the game but shooting other people for the fun of shooting other people, no ladders to climb or glory to grind, there is less incentive to be a homosexual towards your fellow players.
And I do not mean to imply that simply being good at the game is being a homosexual, I mean full on metawhoring and taking advantage of every single dev oversight and balance issue the game might have.
Gamers dont allow PvP games to be fun
The only pvp I enjoy are Asymmetrical ones because the balance is usually wonkier and allows for more fun.
Every PvP gamed doesnt need to be fricking perfectly balanced an stale and neutered.
Usually Asyms where both sides have different player counts are Kino as well. Really enjoyed Evolve before it died just because it was different, and of course people crying about balance all day killed the game.
To be fair, Evolve did have horrible balancing. A halfway decent Kraken or Wraith especially could wipe the floor with the hunters without even being evolved fully. But I do agree with your general sentiment.
Yeah and NS2 died and even before its slow death the playercount was small and "passionate" aka tried way too hard.
To be fair, Evolve did have horrible balancing. A halfway decent Kraken or Wraith especially could wipe the floor with the hunters without even being evolved fully. But I do agree with your general sentiment.
It really wasnt that unbalanced the main issue was coordination. The playerbase always cried that hunters were weak but good coordinated teams would rape any monster easily.
It just had a big disparity between low level and high level gameplay
Because competitive people suck ass, simple as, and there's no remedy for this, they will always try one way or another to try and frick over casuals, so at this point most people just dropped out of pvp games.
In short, most people don't have the time to spend 5000 hours mastering a game, so they feel extremely frustrated when they hop in a game and they find themselves being matched with level 5000 dudes who spend 16 hours a day playing vidya and are unable to even stand a chance to them.
>Why did PVP games die and why does everyone hate them now
I swear none of you homosexual trannies live in reality and just post in your circle jerks here.
There aren't any good PvP games anymore
The only good PvP game that gets consistently updated is, unironically War Thunder
The progression system is consistent and easy to understand, the gameplay and matchmaking system allows shitters to still play the game and have fun. The devs get a lot of shit but they're still better than 99% of other devs in 2024. And there are active private servers and custom match communities.
Because people are shitty, competitive trolls, and they ruin everything they touch. The golden age of gaming was before online multiplayer infected everything.
Why do people hate them now? Well, I always hated them because 95% of them are either overrun with cheaters or require so much time investment it feels like a job. Neither of those two things appeal to me. I used to enjoy them a lot more when I just played in groups of friends. This faceless always online stuff just makes the biggest issues worse.
Cheaters. Simple as.
This. Helldivers 2 is riddled with cheaters as-is. Everyone is running around with infinite warbonds/supercash/samples, infinite ammo/reload speed stratagem weapons, infinite stratagem calldowns, infinite HP, etc. They couldn't operate a PVP mode if their lives depended on it.
Sweaty shooter games suck. I only ever liked it for the Gears and Bungie era Halo games. Also
Have you been ignoring the Overwatch discussions for 8 years? Perfect case study.
>game comes out
>it's fun
>0.3% of your playerbase b***hes endlessly about "muh balance"
>game gets throttled around for years, constantly changing how it feels
>run off half the people who enjoyed it for what it was on Day 1
>casual players are fine with loot box mechanics
>again, 0.3% of the playerbase b***hes about it, ends up becoming a fricking court case
>OW2 drops
>pussified fanbase is all that's left
>can't even say "you're a b***h" to someone without catching a suspension
>every season fricks up the balance again
>all because like 2000 people went on autistic tirades on reddit and twitter
Compgays are a plague on this earth
It's not even the comp gays this time around, it's just the moronic balance team. There isn't any real comp players left ever since people realized that Blizzard devs don't play their own game. The game turned from a fun casual class based shooter to yet another first person MOBA. How they took some of the fundamentals of TF2 and then fumbled this hard is beyond me.
The first month of OW was some of the best gaming I ever had. Everything felt broken and it was so much fun spamming one hero
Yeah OW had one of the starkest transformations I've seen where voice chat went from people howling and screaming laughing to everyone locked in doing tense callouts and being dead silent when a match ended, win or lose
>enemy team is well balanced and trying super hard to win
>our team is just 6 soldiers camping the payload and spamming "we're all soldiers now"
>win
i miss it so much
>The first month of OW was some of the best gaming I ever had.
fricking moronic zoomers man
2016 was 8 years ago gramps
>How dare you ENJOY video games on Ganker?
you're right, except the loot box stuff
belgium was really close to banning it on grounds of child gambling
if belgium did it, then rest of eu would follow
even china has a harsh stance on it, and requires you to reveal loot %
>if belgium did it, then rest of eu would follow
no
belgium banned lots of gacha shit, but it's allowed in every other EU country
you're right, it didn't happen
but the risk is always "what if others follow", which is was the gamble at the time
lootboxes are utter dogshit, but ow lootboxes are soemthing you get my just leveling up right? So it is not that bad. Not sure if you can buy some, but the real issue is csgo.
>buy lootbox
>sell lootbox
>hope for rare shit to sell it again
>go to betting sites for weapon skins to make money
You also got them by winning matches every week so even with complete random you could manage to get lucky 9 times a week for your 3 free ones. Now with the total aids pass you need to treat the game like a second job if you want anything.
yes. A battle pass is not bad, in theory it should be fun grinding a little bit and giving incencitives, but fricks sake they turned it into dogshit. f2p is the biggest issue of all. Gacha ruined everything.
He brings it up because, it was that whole case in Belgium that got blizzard to come up with than even worse way to handle skins. Now paying absurd amounts for the out flat. Loot boxes microtransations suck, but sane people understood that was how the game kept people playing. It was one of those cases where a loud minority made every thing worse, by b***hing about shit to levels it should have never reached.
Gambling targeted at children should be a court case.
>>can't even say "you're a b***h" to someone without catching a suspension
Even "gg ez" gets censored, lol.
Yup basically this. Pro players are a cancer on fun games.
Why do morons say this like OW is even remotely designed around competitive play.
Being poorly designed for pro play doesn't remove the intention. Vanilla ow was fun. Ow2 is not fun. Simple as.
I was speaking more generally
>OW as an example
It was always shit and doomed to devolve
Frick you if you didn't noticed it at first glance. Maybe you're young and stupid
You are actually clueless the OWL was planned from the beginning they were always trying to make it an e-sport. Blizzard don't listen to anybody. Nobody. All of their lead devs and decision makers are the biggest homosexuals in the industry.
Nobody got what they wanted because none of your feedback is ever read.
Wrong, you're moronic
Jeff stated explicitly that he wanted to let the e-sport develop naturally with the players but the Blizzard CEO wanted to force the "biggest esports in history", an esports version of the NFL or some bullshit like that. You can't exactly say no to the CEO demands so Jeff quit when they kept making moronic demand after moronic demand. The new Blizz CEO is a moronic woman who fricking ruined CoD so expect more of the same
>but the Blizzard CEO wanted to force the "biggest esports in history", an esports version of the NFL or some bullshit like that.
People don't give Mike Morhaime enough shit for this, he flat out said he wouldn't greenlight any game that couldn't become an esport and forced esports on Hearthstone and HotS when they weren't designed to be ultra-competitive games. He was a SCgay at heart and obsessed over esports
this so fricking much, i wouldn't mind it if pvp was actually fun. but these days it's all this really high pressure 100% srs business where the game expects you to treat it like a second life while giving you literally nothing in return. everything that you achieve in modern pvp games goes to the publisher, in old school pvp you could at least leave with a smile on your face.
Matchmaking and its consequences
He's absolutely right and why I only can really enjoy TF2 for PVP, even with it half dead and filled with bots
I don't think we'll ever see another game like TF2 tbh. It's the only FPS game that can be played both casually and competitively, with both communities being extremely separated.
I hate that you're right. And it's probably why, even 18 years later, I can't stop playing it even if I will take breaks for weeks at a time
It's also why the game is still relevant in pop culture today. There's just no other game like it. Even small holiday updates spike the player count regularly, showing that there's definitely people interested in playing the game even today. I'm just sad that there's only a single dev left on the team now, with contractors being hired every few months to push out new cases. The incoming 64 bit update is just proof that TF2 has been and will continue to be in maintenance mode for years
Like, I get it. It's been 20 years. The passionate people behind the big class updates, behind the characters and the weapons, they've moved on and went to different games or retired, but you'd think there would be at least a few people at Valve that would try to kill the bot situation, maybe have a month where they tweak things like ambassador falloff/ auto reload for syringe guns/ scorch shot damage numbers/ect and just gauge what people think.
And finish the last fricking comic holy shit I'm still mad they decided to just randomly stop
Counterstrike can be played pretty casually.
Sure but the casual CS experience is almost identical to the competitive experience. All big eSports follow this model deliberately. A new player is going to be following almost all of the same rules as the top pros in these sorts of games, unlike TF2.
>A new player is going to be following almost all of the same rules as the top pros in these sorts of games
I think that’s more of a result of CS’s design that’s remain unchanged for 25 years. Like most great competitive games it was made to be fun first and just happened to also be a good competitive game.
The casual CS used to be 32-64 man dust/office servers and shit like surf/zombies/minigames/jailbreak. Then matchmaking happened, and then CS2 set everything back to square one, with zero people playing legacy CSGO and third worlders on CSS/1.6
Good times. Modern games are doing the same thing now unfortunately. Just look at something like Valorant. The casual experience is identical to the competitive one.
I stopped playing TF2 regularly when they started all the nerfs. The axetinguisher “””rework””” was a sight of things to come where only the dev pet classes like sniper annd soldier are allowed weapon variants that aren’t shitty gimmick memes.
You can still get this experience on CS 1.6 and CSS though
i still remember those days in battlefield 3, there was this one time when the teams got stuck in two rooms with only one corridor between them so everyone kept throwing grenades at each other.
It's tragic how badly multiplayer vidya has regressed
>keeping players from interacting with one another
This is the most important part imo. Competitive games are inherently social experiences. You need to be able to look your opponent in the (proverbial) eye and call them a homosexual. Sequestering everyone into these isolated matchmaking hugboxes hollows out any sense of accomplishment you feel for winning and replaces it with a soulless arbitrary ranking system.
Fighting games are the perfect case study of this. It’s no accident that they peaked when arcades were still popular, where you stood right next to your opponent on one cabinet and could possible get shanked if you talked too much shit. And now, a once celebrated genre is basically on life support because it’s all boring ass matchmaking with no way for players to really communicate with each other.
> And now, a once celebrated genre is basically on life support because it’s all boring ass matchmaking with no way for players to really communicate with each other.
No it’s because people are good at games now so naturally a 1v1 game with high level of skill expression can’t be played casually and win.
How did we regress so badly? Remember EVE online, spaceship MMO with battles invloving hundreds if not thousands of players? A single global server?
Yeah that one. It came out in 2003. We have all the hardware and talent, but zero ambition to do anything with it.
Foxhole is trying to do the massive spread out mmo battle thing, but I think the gameplay style they chose for it hurts it from being more popular.
I miss old Tf2 so much it hurts.
At least we were around to experience Team Fortress Fridays with dedicated servers and people that recognized you when you went in. Trash talking on all talk servers with the boys, one being silent for just a bit too long, making you realize he was Spy, only to die from him. Custom maps that were fun to explore, the hype as shit 3 day update reveals. They hold a special place in my heart that none of this quick play shit will ever taint, because they're golden memories of a brighter time that, God willing, people one day will be able to experience again
>2009-2011 era partyvan server
>the crazy maps
>the hldj music players
>loud nigra deafening you from all the spammed text prompts
Take me back bros.
The death of community servers really was the death of PvP games for me. I don't want to play gay matchmaking ranked BS for sweats, I just want to have fun.
>Mario Kart
>Orange Fort endless back & forth games that lasted days without anyone winning
Kino...
Day of Defeat: Home
Same reason MMO aren't fun anymore. They're too trapped by the formula that wow built to remember what fun is.
E-sports was already a thing with CS in the mid 2000s he's moronic. It's the consoleification of gaming that caused servers browsers to be replaced with matchmaking that ruined it.
difference is that esports were local and solely managed by a small section of the community themselves
now games are made directly to pander to esportsgays and esports are managed by the developers themselves
competitive was always niche aspect of a game that the community decided on you zoomer dumbfrick
This so much, most online multiplayer games have such neutered experiences
hes right, pvp fps died because of the system around the game design push you to be sweaty try hards, dev even killed dedicated server with garbage matchmaking where you can`t get to know people, just replace with another batch of randoms that feels like bots on your next match, pvp fps these days just feel pointless to play except having a good k/d when socializing is part of the fun going online
I wonder what genius managed to sell the idea of making esports look more lucrative than making the appeal to a larger audience who dont give a frick about the competitive angle
Don't esports pretty much always operate at a loss?
what is this homosexualy obsession with 'player interaction'? The LAST thing I want to do after a long day is chat with some 18yo Black person on the internet.
I know this is something alien to you anti-social zoomers but once upon a time human beings were meant to socialize and talk to one another
Confirmed for never playing multi player games in their prime
It's not about "chatting" it's about little/self moderation to allow players to do what ever stupid shit they want to during a match and have the players in those lobbies self regulate instead of screaming to the devs to ban everyone and remove anything that upsets them.
>bass boosted hip hop
Lol, dubstep is forgotten
hardbass isn't dubstep though
Exactly, which is why dubstep is forgotten
Dubstep was forgotten because it was a fad and a cringe one at that, even at the time people were mocking it.
This is why I just play fighting games now. FPS is dead.
This is why TF2 is still although barely alive still.
correct but the peak area is midjudged
pre-mic was the peak
He is right though. Online FPS was way better when player-run dedicated servers were the rule.
because in the end pvp is only about who has the best internet connection and who can press the button fastest, people are getting tired of it. just taking a cursory glance on what people are talking about in skull and bones shows that most people prefer to just avoid pvp all together.
This is why I enjoyed Hearthstone for so long, it was fun pvp, until Blizzard ruined it by banning all of the cards.
>because in the end pvp is only about who has the best internet connection and who can press the button fastest
low iq beliefs like this somehow being the majority really makes you think. i bet chess is all about who can move their pieces the fastest, right? nothing about skill lmao
>He thinks internet speed is comparable to moving a piece in chess faster
Room temperature IQ.
>makes my point for me
if you didn't intend this you need to either 1) be 18+ or 2) study reading comprehension
>No u
Lol of course.
you never made an argument. im not actually sure you even understood the words you read. i think you got ass blasted and replied.
in all fields again
Why are the people that act super smart always incredibly dumb? Where do you take that confidence from?
pretty easy to have confidence when you 1) completely missed the point because you have 2nd grade reading comprehension and 2) never made an argument to begin wit
Thanks for showing me that ironically, you're underage kek
For the next exercise you need to write a paragraph summarizing the main thesis of the following post:
. The paragraph must be at least 4 sentences long with proper punctuation.
You're limited by a timer during chess games though.
another room temp iq has replied to me. they really show themselves lmao
in all fields, of course.
moronic boomer take.
Esports ruined everything.
Multiplayer games are about interacting with randoms and having fun. Frick ranked shit.
PvP is shit now ruined by cynical engagement based match making
Because they're made as shitty liveservice esports first and foremost. They're not made to be fun to play.
Pvo used to be designed to be fun. Now it's designed to appeal up esports leagues, sell cosmetics, lootboxes and mtx, battle passes, cheating is done by bots that just kill people 24/7 and nobody knows their purpose. They could be moderated but companies won't hire two employees to do that so????
People got way too fricking sweaty with it. Leagues and score brackets are toxic for online communities, progression should just be through XP and kills, none of this diamond or platinum shit. Winning is fricking everything to them, playing doesn't matter so just go meta with everything, gotta smurf too or else your dopamine drip might lessen. PVP should just be two balance-randomized teams based on who's queuing up with shitters and nolifers getting paired together.
I don't enjoy getting hatemail. I don't like that I'm clearly ruining this other person's day.
Hackers are more prevalent now.
Also most people today are pussies who will report you for milquetoast bants.
the more i read about this game the more i really want to support the developers
Why? This is the most reddit onions headline I've read all week
i fricking have PVP and it's the main reason why i don't and have not fricking played online multiplayer shit for the past 15 years
There’s way more bots and cheaters than people realize
all pvp communities devolve into cheating and meth abusing to keep engagement hours ticking
I knew I recognized that swimsuit but I would not have been able to tell that's A-chan without image search.
It's AI.
EOMM
RTS already learned this lesson. It's about time shooters do too.
Because you can't call people Black folk in VC anymore. Unironically. The fact people don't get to properly vent their frustrations anymore without getting permanently banned made pvp unbearable.
Wrong, it's dipshits like you that ruined it for the rest of us. When I was a kid, no one EVER just spewed racist shit in voice, being annoying meant more than just saying a single word ad nauseam. And make no mistake, that's why you started saying it, it wasn't just a general insult or anything, we used homosexual for that, you homosexual.
>When I was a kid
like 5 years ago?
you missed out the trash talking of old 90-2000, kid
Shut up Black person
> Didn't play old school CoD or CS:GO etc.
Spotted the zoomer.
Cheaters and SBMM killed it.
>I have to play with people of my own skill level
CoDgays are pathetic lmao
SBMM creates a pseudo-esports environment where you constantly have to give it your all to see success which becomes tiring after a while. Just because I'm better than the average doesn't mean I want to constantly be in full sweat mode pretending like the game is serious business and I might just want to have fun.
Ever wondered why smurfs are running rampant in every esports game ever?
No what you’re discovering is that the game you’re playing is dogshit for anything but “just turn your brain off bro” play.
Play a different game CoDgay
I don't know what your obsession with CoD is but this is true for literally every esports game.
>Want to play *insert literally any PVP game here* for fun
>either have to sweat my balls off to get even a modicum of a chance of winning or get completely fricking stomped by the enemy team
>the magical fairy land of a fun and balanced match happens once in a blue moon
No anon it's not skill based anymore, it's engagement based because they know room temperature morons like you can't tell the difference
I'm all for playing with people of my skill level.
However, what I don't want is to play with morons doing 2-28 and zero seconds on the objective on my team to balance out your winrate. Just slo little timmy on the opposite gets his free win handed to him to make him play the game more so he can steam his mommy's credit card and buy the super cool furry skin on the store.
meanwhile you have people routinely melting down on lobby because they lost samples while fricking around the extraction ship instead of staying close to the hatch to jump in immediately and it's our fault
I had a guy tk me last night because I picked up his sample case after he died and he thought I was stealing it. Black person you get samples no matter what so long as whoever holding them extracts. I know this because I've received them as mission rewards on missions where I know I didn't pick any up.
Comp/tourney gays ruin everything
Appealing to the 0.01% is just as bad as going for the lowest common denominator
Compare L4D Co-op vs. Versus.
more than half of the top 15 played steam games are pvp, arguably more. no one will remember the troondivers FOTM
>people are watching a game and that makes it fun
steam, as in valve's platform steam, moron
I'm that case, I don't concern myself with what flavor of shit flies eat. It's clear most of the Internet is now third world morons that flock to free to play multiplayer shit. No thanks.
As much as I hate MS, them buying actiblizz and immediately dismantling all the esports shit was a based move.
women and gays hate them
men like competitive and coop
Everyones a meta gay and cheatings undetectable.
>pure casual fun with co-op campaign, custom games, forge, community sharing, and low stakes matchmaking
>gays blamed it for ruining multiplayer pvp
>343 hired people who also hated it
>modern 343 sees Halo as a "competitive" shooter
>franchise has been deader than dirt for years because of misdirection and poor management
>multiplayer pvp has only gotten worse without it
i hate you all
Streamgays, TAtrannies, and wiki warriors have ruined multiplayer forever. Everything needs to be turned into an optimization spreadsheet.
If you're gonna have that shit anyway, might as well have it to work towards a common goal.
Meta tryhards and cheaters have killed all online pc gaming, consoles are still safe for now
Consoles were the reason MP gaming became dogshit in the first place
Console aim assist along with cross play has probably created more cheaters in a few years then anything else.
>PvP back in the day
>morons having fun, custom servers, lots of people talking, few cheaters, esports was local, cheaters were usually just trolling and blatantly ovious, no SBMM or EBMM so if you were good at the game you could win most games and tell who on your team/enemy team was also skilled, nobody expected or pressured noobs to be good
>games were made by actual game developers instead of comity and investor approved think tanks so players had more freedom to have fun and less monetization
>PvP today
>rampant fricking cheating with every 12 year old running some kind of background hard to detect cheat treating every game like it's a contest
>nobody uses their mics anymore except when they suddenly want to have an autism rage fit
>Engagement Based and Skill Based matchmaking trying to turn every round into a slot machine addiction based round
>everything is pushed to be an e-sport and every other homosexual has a YT or TTV in their name trying to be the next *insert famous online homosexual of your choice here*
>Impossible to find a game where you can just dick around and have fun on custom servers, everything has to be spotless and in a controlled environment or else the boomer investors throw a fit
I used to love playing CoD1 with one of my friends. Nowadays he's convinced literally everyone is cheating so he himself purchased some elaborate setup with 2 linked PCs and hardware ID spoofing just so he can run his stupid paid aimbots without getting banned, because god forbid someone is actually just better than him or caught him by surprise.
If it wasn't for dogshit matchmaking where every PvP game is anti fun, there wouldn't be as many cheaters. The addiction/engagement based matchmaking is making more people turn to cheating just to have some fun
Basically. When the only thing the game pushes you towards is getting kills, people that suck at getting kills are often going to cheat to do it. In a more casual game focused on just having fun with it and not your performance there's less incentive to cheat.
don't forget how cheating is much more common because there's no more humans overlooking things in their own servers, just automated systems
The first week 1 played BF2142 I was at like 0.7 or something alongside purple heart medals.
Eventually that number became 1.1 or so over time
god this is why i unironically fell out of most modern pvp games , and that's because of how garbage the matchmaking is
I guess that's why I can only tolerate tf2 and unironically warthunder cause it has no sbmm / can call people slurs to your hearts content
When they forced central servers, banned communication and started stealing from customers.
>Why did PVP games die and why does everyone hate them now
We left dedicated servers that you could join instantly tailored to your tastes, were locally modded by real humans playing with you, and people played for fun with the same players for multiple rounds together.
Now all the control is in the developer/publisher hands to create a "skill"based matchmaking system designed to keep you playing as long as possible against people you'll never see again after a single match. There's more comradery at public restroom urinals than modern FPSs where homosexuals and their discord friends can mass report you for any reason real or not from saying an innocuous insult or joke to not playing as hard as you can using metagay builds, either resulting in an automatic ban by a algorithm threshold being reached. Additionally you're forced to play with crossplay children using aim assist that's more overtuned than most real cheats
>but da admins abused me back in the day for being obnoxious 🙁
and now everyone else is upset we have to play with (You) at gunpoint so we all moved to small group coop PvE
God I miss dedicated servers.
Our time has pretty much passed
>overly sweaty teammates and enemies
>meta slaves that force you to use a handful of loadouts/characters/weapons to keep up
>absolutely shit products delivered at launch
Apart from server issues, it’s sad how it’s surprising how Helldivers delivered a prettt content dense game for its price and playstyle even though that should be the fricking norm. The comedy also comes from Starship trooper esque cool satire. Had this game been made by most dev teams the “Satire” would be marvel tier comedy, fat black women showing the ignorant white guy how it’s done and a very “deep” and POWERFUL moment where the characters must realize “I think it’s Humanity that’s the true problem/horror/terror in the universe”
all the most played and popular games are all PvP games
I only play PvP games when they release, after 2 months the tryhards and sweats settle in and the game becomes unplayable
PVP games are gonna die in the future anyway when undetectable AI cheating becomes the norm
There is absolutely no counter to it
CS2 is already there, cheating is more rampant than ever but people still play it. It's the canary in the coal mine for this stuff and players have shown they'll just stick to their forever games no matter how shitty the experience gets
Min maxers ruin everything.
Warframe technically has a pvp thing but nobody ever used it. Yeah it used to have a great community because your success never hinges on anyone else joining so anyone there is a bonus.
>undetectable AI cheating
you got it backwards
there's already some companies who are working on creating anti cheats with AI
He doesnt, AI cheats will be nearly unstoppable
Because pvp is only fun between friends and not against some sweaty try hard that thinks he's a competitive gamer at high bronze.
There are enough games with pvp for you Black folk.
PvP => Competitive play => eSports => meta strategies bleeding into casual play => devs patching out fun things because the "pro players" don't like it => unfun bullshit
This slippery slope happens to every competitive game. Don't need it. The finals looks fun as a concept but I refuse to touch a game that people think is a job.
>Why did PVP games die and why does everyone hate them now
Other than fighting games, pvp games just seem like a hassle.
>gotta deal with teammates not playing the objective or being a narcissist, thinking they're top 500
>skill based matchmaking even in casual games means everyone has to try their hardest/play meta
>lootboxes/battlepass have completely lock cosmetic progression behind paywalls
PVP FPS is unplayable nowadays if you aren't a sweat or a cheater.
>pvp game
>stuck with 3-5 other moronic homosexuals (i'm one too)
>90% of the time we will not like each other
>if I try to call them out, I get banned
>eventually, don't even communicate, not even with pings (league is removing pings cause it hurts people's feelings FRICKING KEK)
>instead play bad on purpose under the guise of being a shitter so that the system doesn't autoflag me
Post your best win streak.
pvp has always sucked
remember when mutliplayer games were like playgrounds you and some kids would play at, no stakes, nothing on the line, you could play how you wanted and the reward was the joy of playing around instead of winning or getting some fricking battle pass skin?
now they're like these hyper competitive sports where winning and increasing your rank is the only thing that matters, and money and prizes and rewards are on the line and you gotta train and keep up with the meta and all this other garbage, and everybody else is an enemy instead of a play partner
that's why PVP games are dead
its for this exact reason i stopped playing pvp mp games (aside from good old stuff like tf2) - everyones obsessed with being a loser nerd sweatlord instead of having fun
just not the same anymore
The death of server browsers and the implementation of matchmaking algorithms designed to frustrate and make you addicted
It's not fun, simple as.
You have a minority in gaming who claim that all voice chat would be is Black person Black person Black person when its not that at all. But they're the loudest ones so we get half and full time voice chat taken out robbing us of shit like this. Arma Reforger was some of the best fun I had in a long time listening in to the enemy radio
Because it's the most sterile, lifeless genre of gaming. PVP and competitive Game Devs don't just inadvertently kill the fun out of their games in the name of competitiveness and "balance", but they also want to monitor your every move in an effort to protect any sense of wholesome community they think is vital to their game. It's same experience across the board to varying degrees, you play a frustrating game you dont find fun while removing any form of natural interaction you'd have with people youre competing with. At the end you're just hating yourself.
>Get into match
>Get spawn camped
>Get killed by noscopesweatlord420
>One team is always heavily skewed in skill because the matchmaking is ass
>Have to pray to RNJesus to get in a good team
>20 weapons, only actually use 2 because everything else is shit and everyone just uses the meta.
Yeah there's no fun to be had here.
>everyone just uses the meta.
This shit is what kills these games, every goddamn YouTuber and their zoomer watcher should die for feeding this shit.
>be Call of Duty
>learn you can monetize the meta
>release a broken OP gun
>sell battle pass with said gun, gun packs, and skin packs with said gun
>"nerf" it near the end of the season
>next season, rinse and repeat
>make literally millions every month with this scam
CoD gays are something else
before nu-MW, new weapons were locked behind lootboxes.
BO4 was straight up pay 2 win, the new guns were massively overpowered, like laser LMG that killed in 2 shots
CoD, like other dude-bro games, realized their player base has a collective IQ of a special needs summer camp and has been bending over the players for years, while the players all scream "yes daddy give me more"
>"SBMM" (actually EOMM)
>aim bot for controllers
>precise aim for KBM
PvE completely invalidates each of them
metagays
censoring
cheaters
in that order
Nah you got the order reversed.
I dunno, man. In every competitive game, a bad meta might bring cheaters. Not the other way.
gnashergays and tunnelinggays
>game comes out
>Search gameplay of game on YouTube
>YOURE DOING THESE WRONG
>THE MOST OP SHIT IN THE GAME
>HERE'S IS THE BEST STRATEGY EVER
No cheat world (fantasy land, not reality)
>start game
>fun in beginning, everyone is just playing to play
>casuals lose interest, fade out
>meta comp begins
>upper 80% of players not willing to play meta fade out
>meta continues and nothing changes, its sweat or lose every game
>now its just .5% of the original pop sweating at maximum sdpm (sweat drop per minute) even in casual quick matches
Cheat world (this is reality)
>start game
>ope, its a shooter, 3rd party software easily translates and lets you cheat for free on day 1
>validity of any round you ever play immediately called into question
>cant trust that anyone you play against is just 'really that good'
>feel nothing but frustration as you experience the stark difference of a round where someone wasnt cheating their dick off and one where they are but can do nothing about it
Anyways CS2 fricking sucks.
>have a full time job, wife, and dog
>playing ow casually
>I'm bronze because I'm not trying to sweat
>get immediately flick shot by Hanzo from across the map
>bronze is supposedly an elo with low mechanical skill
Yeah ok
The spread of information killed it, now anyone just goes online and reads what does most damage and what is the most bullshit shit to win games. There's no variety in gameplay or anything, just everyone trying their hardest to be the sweatest.
>don't try to be a sweaty meta homosexual
>get absolutely fricking destroyed
>hey guy, we are selling the meta gun for 2000 imaginary distance-yourself-from-the-money-points don't be a b***h and buy it
They didn't. They don't. Now kys you disengenous lying homosexual.
Engagement Based Matchmaking is what killed it for me. That combined with interaction being all but entirely eliminated makes it feel about as sovlles as possible.
>Cheaters
>Aim assist in PC lobbies
>EOMM
>FOMO seasonal content
These are the reasons why I stopped playing PvP. Just not worth the time when game doesn't respect your commitment at all. FPS scene really needs some indie competition to disrupt predatory market.
This game is legitimately fricking terrible
Agree.
Too hard on solo.
Too easy with a 4-player team.
You couldn't make a shittier co-op game if you tried.
That's a fascinating thing, actually. You can most likely blame speedrunning. You see, when you make a game with a high skill ceiling, there's people out there who will go full speedrunner and obsessively seek out pseudo-exploits, metas, and generally grind out thousands upon thousands of hours of the game until their gameplay becomes indistinguishable from hacking. This rapidly starts killing the game for both casual and hardcore players, and the only solution is to start artificially lowering the skill ceiling or ruthlessly enforce skill-based matchmaking.
>the sheer number of times people think they're fighting against a hacker but it's just a speed running troony with 7000 hrs on each map.
>nooooo people are too good at games I just want to win
Omg gays
>great players get faster access to perks which makes them even more dominant
i fricking hate PVP because it widens the skill gap. If anything, terrible players like me should get all the perks and the higher level you get, the more handicaps you should have.
Honest to God, how the frick did the TF2 devs do it? They understood things to an insane degree and when the only valid complaint I can think of is Sniper being Black person dick to face, it's really fascinating looking at how well they balanced map and team size and shit
Because it was autistic chaos in the same way old Halo BTB was. Not everything has to be perfectly balanced or it upsets the compgays because people are just having a fricking blast playing it.
Like Op Locker on Battlefield. Its an objectively shit map but its the best map because its fricking chaos.
>Focus games development on fun and variety instead of being a perfect e-sport
>give players a lot of freedom and agency to play in whatever way they want
>wtf why won't our player base die and why are most of them positive
Three major points. 1: each class has a wildly different difficulty and skill set tied to them. Not everyone has to be the lord of reaction speeds and full screen flicks to absolutely dominate. 2: The teams are quite large and you're not expected to have more than a handful of VERY good players and as such their effectiveness is EXTREMELY mitigated because of how much meat you have to chew through to actually team wipe. 3: The absolutely highest impact classes are some of the easiest making it so that even a braindead moron can be extremely valuable by just clicking a class and clicking on teammates/near enemies.
With these things all perfectly brewed together you can have a skyscraper-tier skill ceiling and literal struggle-to-move-and-shoot-at-the-same-time skill floor and still have a relatively balanced game.
Boomers getting old and unable to aim or learn new things anymore GENUINELY is why. They could do these things btw, but theyre lazy and "just wanna unwind with a bowl of weed bro"
The devs say co-op isn't toxic but all I'm thinking about right now is the reason why L4D was my least-played orange box game.
>L4D was my least-played orange box game.
L4D was another terrible co-op game. The maps were far too linear and boring. Helldivers 2 is actually closer to the ideal but in the opposite direction (the maps are way too fricking big) and nobody wants that time commitment.
IMO, the ideal is how Battlefront II did it. You fight as a team through multiple large arenas. As you gain victory, your team gets teleported to more focused and deadly arenas. It's not as "organic" as Helldivers 2, but it feels more like an actual game. And you can drop in and out as you please.
L4D is indeed a bad "coop" game, but the exact reason why is also a popular one
L4D is braindead as FRICK. Its a mind numbing activity, with shit weapons and shit objectives. The interactivity with anything is non existant, and it's more of a social activity rather than a team effort against any challenge. You mow down unthreatening hordes of zombies until the game cheapshots you with a "special" one that needs to be killed/disabled by another player. This is the only moment where you interact with any other player. Its so basic that will be fricked up by braindead players as well, leading to "toxicity" everytime. Because you're on a kiddie pool, and you get mad when you get pissed on.
In contrast to other coop games, like Killing Floor, enemies are a threat every single one with clear pros and cons and communication is important to disable them efficiently. Not GTFO levels of communication, but better. Same as Deep Rock Galactic.
Helldivers 2 strikes a good balance where dumbasses can farm bugs on low levels and hard sandbox gameplay at higher difficulties and Bots (the barren wasteland of matchmaking because shitters can't kill bots)
So when it comes down to why no PvP? because its really easier to make PvE than to deal with shitters directly. You feed them and they go about their lives. If L4D did it, so can any other game. PvP would take more balancing and will in the end just piss shitters off when they can't full auto a Tank and think they did anything but LMB.
friendly fire and try-hards already make this game toxic
>friendly fire
it's part of the game. If you could just call down stratagems and sprint through it the game would have zero challenge
>try-hards
tier 7 and above its to be expected. Personally I haven't come across anyone that bad
1: The only thing you get for being good at PvP is harder opponents and shittier team mates to enforce 50/50 win rate.
2: Since there is no gameplay altering rewards they can offer so as to not upset balance, you will only ever get cosmetics for playing.
3: Being able to play PvP games at all relies on others participating. If nobody other than you is, you don't get to play.
4: Despite being inherently competitive, all PVP games are hellbent on punishing players for 'toxicity', often times while they are selling emotes and win screens designed to tilt opponents.
5: Balance/meta gays ruin anything interesting. If you have a build that upsets them, they will brigade devs until your fun is patched out.
>cheaters
>crossplay
>catering to consoles, controller kids and general just adhd spastics by implementing massively overtuned aim assist that completely outperforms the average mouse and keyboard player
>shitty balance decisions based around the top .1% of the player base
Pick your poison.
No-lifer joins your team in Helldivers:
>yay, we're gonna win!
No-lifer joins the enemy team in Call of Shooty:
>frick this, I'll find another lobby.
>ITT: salty boomers who got teabagged in fortnite
I hate this headline. He's lying. Adding PvP is expensive, complicated and risky (fragmentation). This whole thing about "toxic" is virtue signalling globohomosexual lies.
Yeah bros, lets never make multiplayer PvP games because they're "toxic". It's not like the majority of top games are competitive PvP.
The toxicity is what is good.
Can't someone make a decent PvP where I can freely call people Black folk again? I'm tired of getting suspensions or bans for just saying GG.
Calling people Black folk isn't even toxic. Only real toxicity you see in video games to begin with, is comp gays getting butthurt and taking out their profound ego-pain on others.
PvP is only fun if it is for shits and giggles. The moment there is anything to gain (even completely meaningless shit like ranks), people will begin to metagame so they may show others how 1337 they are.
Remove all notions of prestige and rewards from PvP and it will be fun for everyone involved.
If a game isn’t fun when people metagame then the game just isn’t well designed, this attitude just facilitates a shitty race to the bottom attitude where it’s bad for a game to let you be good
There is a sea of difference between being good at a game and being a metagaming wiki warrior who lets only a peer reviewed source dictate what is and isn't a valid gameplay choice. I listen to the first person. They have a soul.
The game can let you be good, it just doesn't have to pat you on the back for it in the form of rewards and titles to make you feel more inclined to "shit on kids". If there is nothing to the game but shooting other people for the fun of shooting other people, no ladders to climb or glory to grind, there is less incentive to be a homosexual towards your fellow players.
And I do not mean to imply that simply being good at the game is being a homosexual, I mean full on metawhoring and taking advantage of every single dev oversight and balance issue the game might have.
Gamers dont allow PvP games to be fun
The only pvp I enjoy are Asymmetrical ones because the balance is usually wonkier and allows for more fun.
Every PvP gamed doesnt need to be fricking perfectly balanced an stale and neutered.
Usually Asyms where both sides have different player counts are Kino as well. Really enjoyed Evolve before it died just because it was different, and of course people crying about balance all day killed the game.
To be fair, Evolve did have horrible balancing. A halfway decent Kraken or Wraith especially could wipe the floor with the hunters without even being evolved fully. But I do agree with your general sentiment.
Tremulous and Natural Selection were fun.
Yeah and NS2 died and even before its slow death the playercount was small and "passionate" aka tried way too hard.
It really wasnt that unbalanced the main issue was coordination. The playerbase always cried that hunters were weak but good coordinated teams would rape any monster easily.
It just had a big disparity between low level and high level gameplay
Because competitive people suck ass, simple as, and there's no remedy for this, they will always try one way or another to try and frick over casuals, so at this point most people just dropped out of pvp games.
In short, most people don't have the time to spend 5000 hours mastering a game, so they feel extremely frustrated when they hop in a game and they find themselves being matched with level 5000 dudes who spend 16 hours a day playing vidya and are unable to even stand a chance to them.
It's funny how one of the modern fps pvp that I have had most fun with is garden warfare 2
A fricking plants vs zombies shooter
Go run Mythics on WoW to see how toxic a PVE community can be.
this homie still plays WoW and gives Blizzard money lmaooooo
>Why did PVP games die and why does everyone hate them now
I swear none of you homosexual trannies live in reality and just post in your circle jerks here.
There aren't any good PvP games anymore
The only good PvP game that gets consistently updated is, unironically War Thunder
The progression system is consistent and easy to understand, the gameplay and matchmaking system allows shitters to still play the game and have fun. The devs get a lot of shit but they're still better than 99% of other devs in 2024. And there are active private servers and custom match communities.
Because I'm tired of everyone hopping on the mic just to call me the n word
Have you tried, just not, being, black? Oh my bad my black fellow.
Did the first game even have pvp? If not, then why expect it with the sequel?
Because this is Ganker and its easiest to get 500 replies by fabricating a problem then acting angry about it.
Because people are shitty, competitive trolls, and they ruin everything they touch. The golden age of gaming was before online multiplayer infected everything.
>Game is finally working
>Not really that much content
Well, that's disappointing.
Why do people hate them now? Well, I always hated them because 95% of them are either overrun with cheaters or require so much time investment it feels like a job. Neither of those two things appeal to me. I used to enjoy them a lot more when I just played in groups of friends. This faceless always online stuff just makes the biggest issues worse.