Why did they completely remove dungeons in the later gens?
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Why did they completely remove dungeons in the later gens?
Why did they completely remove dungeons in the later gens?
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Because little Timmy can't be stuck in a cave going around in circles without an escape rope.
except they added an infinite use Escape Rope key item in Swooshie
turning the escape rope into a key item in the same gen with the lowest number of dungeons in the entire series was such a bizarre choice
It was the same reason they made it so you can fly anytime without a HM, the Lumiose glitch really rattled them.
> It was the same reason they made it so you can fly anytime without a HM,
because they realized requiring a bird shitmon on your team just to fast travel is a fricking moronic idea?
because they realized the Poketards are lazy braindead ultra casuals who will buy whatever crapola Game Freak shits out.
frlg is so ugly looking
fpbp
I somewhat agree. Silph Co. for example I consider to still be the best dungeon in the series with how many collectables there are, the option to either skip nearly every trainer or fight all 30 of them, and a tough challenge near the end with the 3rd to last rival fight.
gen 3 in general is ugly as shit and sounds awful
hoenn dive theme is the most impressive piece of music from the franchise I can think of
To cut costs.
Dungeons are annoying and troublesome to design, hallways don't work as well in 3d enviroments as in 2d, neither do they feel as good to traverse, takes time to code and to be fair a "building with 5 floors leading to the final boss" was getting kinda reptitive.
GF just don't wanna spend the time or money to make interesting game enviroments anymore when they can just put in 25% of the effort and sell one trillion copies. They've also allocated their resources to a lot of other things like characters and "story" (shitty and drawn out stories) these days.
They would rather make a game that sells well than make a good game.
>Dungeons are annoying and troublesome to design, hallways don't work as well in 3d enviroments as in 2d, neither do they feel as good to traverse
Yet another example of 3D making the games worse.
>Yet another example of 3D making the games worse.
Alas, it was an inevitable change they were always going to make. It's all about profits, and keeping the games 2d would've minimised that, as I said it was an inevitable ""evolution"" (if you can call it that lol) of the series. We shouldn't really cry over spilled milk now should we?
true
The Whirl Islands are shit other than the giant waterfall at the end
Why does Virizion do that anyway?
Seems weird and random.
To make discord shit and piss their pants
all 3 of them just pop out in front of you in B2W2
all of them sense that some shit is about to go down and put the region in danger, so they put aside their distaste of humans to join forces for the good of Unova. They're not hiding away in some cave out of the way, they want you to catch them.
According to Colress the pokemon are acknowledging your bond with your pokemon. Plus BW already had dungeons for these 3, no point in putting them on the same cave, so youre given an option to catch them, or defeat them and catch them later at lv65
Virizion doesn't belong in a cave, its habitats are obviously forests and meadows
It’s not 3D, it’s Game Freak.
what said. THough we kinda got dungeons this gen with Area 0 and Ogre mountain.
because japanese children got lost in mt. coronet
yes, that's the real reason
I was a stupid child, but the main annoyance of mt. coronet was the obscene number of HMs you needed to get anywhere. And if you forgot one, well that's just too bad.
But gen 5 still had good dungeons like twist mountain, mistralton cave, chargestone cave, relic castle, etc (even if the unova region itself was incredibly linear)
Even gen 6 had a decent victory road but ever since gen 7 there have basically been no dungeons in pokemon
>But gen 5 still had good dungeons
no it didn't
the fact that you're citing fricking mistralton cave when it's basically just a 3 storey random encounter hallway with some boulders occasionally blocking the way tells me everything.
Did they really get lost in Mt. Coronet or did they just not know how to get Strength and assume they weren't supposed to have it yet because they skipped the ghost tower? Because I did that in BDSM and the map flag told me to go to the route it was on, but I can imagine getting lost in Mt. Coronet trying to find out how to get to Route 217 if you were on DP or Platinum without the map flag.
Gen 3 would never!
Recently replaying Platinum I can understand why.
Navigating Mt Coronet is a hassle.
it's hassle because its actually a good dungeon instead of a straight forward path?
Yes. I don't enjoy the annoying maze dungeons in Pokemon.
It's a slog that I don't want to do in a Pokemon game.
If I want Mazes I'll play Etrian, which also has much better team building and combat than Pokemon does.
Its a hassle because there's a ton of pointless dead ends and huge amounts of rock climbing, the Spear Pillar is also ugly and underwhelming compared to the version in PLA where it looks mystical and beautiful.
why the frick is a roofless temple not covered in snow like the rest of the mountain? is GF moronic?
>ton of pointless dead ends
So good exploration.
>huge amounts of rock climbing
Pressing a button is a hassle now?
>ton of pointless dead ends
>So good exploration.
No
>uhh theres so many pointless dead ends
>uhh achstually its also a straight railroad
lol
lmao
If you are obviously told wear to go, then the deadends are definitely pointless.
The pointless dead ends are what make it a railroad.
My favorite is when there’s an alternate path after the snowy area with a bunch of grunts that’s a shortcut back to Celestic Town but the game fricking blocks it with a Galactic Grunt for zero reason until you catch the Legendary. It’s so hilariously badly designed.
It's not explorations to find a few dead ends.
There is only 1 destination.
>It's not explorations to explore
What did anon mean by this?
>exploring a empty dead end
What did you gain besides wasted time?
B2 and Plat are my favorite 2 games in the series.
The point I made with dead ends is that there is no reward for drifting off from the correct path. Once you know they are dead ends like the Solaceon ruins there is no point in going there, rendering it effectively linear.
>Once you know they are dead ends there is no point in going there
Wow just like every place that has ever existed.
the stones are warm
>its actually a good dungeon
It isn’t, though.
>Navigating Mt Coronet is a hassle.
Not at all. I recently replayed Platinum and expected it to be a hassle going in, but it wasn't. Like, at all.
homosexual.
This is also why Event Pokemon gradually went from having their own dedicated sub-stories and areas to simply being given to you by an npc in all Pokemon Centers/Marts, because the prospect of literally handing out God proved to be an overwhelmingly positive decision compared to the original plan of "make the kids climb Mt. Coronet and reach Spear Pillar just one more time to battle and capture Arceus".
It also avoids the problems they caused with Darkrai and Arceus areas never being seen by the massive majority of players because they didn't get the item.
Locked areas requiring an event item is fricking moronic design
Good thing they scrapped event Pokemon for legendaries restricted behind the paid DLC then
Yes. They should also keep doing that.
>Darkrai
>Shaymin
>Arceus
All obtainable in base Diamond and Pearl without having to buy another game
>buy 2nd game for rest of the content
>buy 2nd game for rest of the content
Yeah, and that still applies today you disingenuous homosexual
That's the fricking point i'm making.
Things being DLC now is literally better than what they used to do
My point was exclusively about mythicals, which were distributed for FREE in the debut games of a generation (excluding RS because they suck).
Mythicals you can only get via some event is completely moronic
I agree, but so are paid DLC legendaries.
You realistically can't compete in the new VGC season without Ogerpon
Why would you compete in a game you dont even play?
Paid DLC legendaries is a far lesser of the evils.
>Pay money for things
>DON'T pay money for things
I know my choice.
>one is time gated
>one isn't
Yea, time gates are bad and your choice for DLC is preferred
I'll just cheat/GTS a Mytical if I really wanted one.
>time gated
>implying that the Switch's E-Shop won't be shut down 10 years from now
>dont pay money and dont get anything
>pay money and get everything
yes epic choice bro
You act like that's something new for Pokemon.
The old DLC just happened to be released as 3rd versions of the game.
Now you don't have to buy an entire new game, just a DLC that costs less.
>THEY SHOULD RELEASE A COMPLETE GAME ONLY NO DLC OR EXTRA VERSIONS NEEDED
Literally never going to happen, not an argument
>THEY SHOULD RELEASE A COMPLETE GAME ONLY NO DLC OR EXTRA VERSIONS NEEDED
And those games are BW and BW2.
Where can i catch Pikachu in those games?
There's a better version of Pikachu on a couple routes. It's a flying type.
>complete game
>cut pokemon
Good try though.
Just get an event Pikachu or transfer, easy.
Pretty sure Light Ball Pikachu is generally better than Emolga
In game I feel that the flying type is more useful and Emolga has been tiered higher than Pikachu on Smogon.
If you're going to use a flying type it would be smarter to use one that actually learns fly.
>And those games are BW and BW2.
>version exclusive content split across 4 games
>dream radar needed for exclusive forms
>shit locked behind the defunct dream world
>multiple previous gen games required to catch them all
good one
you are discord
Game Freak saw the writing on the wall and knew that Zoomers would freak out about playing a game anything more complicated than Pokemon Channel.
My controversial opinion is that "trainer dungeons" (stuff like evil team hideouts and silph co) are good, but "pokemon dungeons" (caves) are bad
that's because you've been tricked by zoomer discourse into thinking random encounters are bad
I think they accomplish different things. Caves and stuff are more of a exploration and adventure, trainer dungeons are almost always some important set piece in the story.
mt coronet distortion world
I just keep learning new things that vindicate my decision to drop Pokemon around gen 5. This stay on /vp/ has been very enlightening.
because they realized walking through corridors while clicking on the repel button every 1 minute wasn't fun gameplay
"Dungeons" stopped being meaningful after gen 3 and just turned into pointless padding. We went from
>areas where you need to bike extremely carefully over it otherwise you fall and need to start over
>strength boulder puzzles that are actually complex and require a few minutes of thinking/trial and error to solve
>having to navigate a specific series of currents to get into a cave where you need to decipher braille to unlock a further series of braille puzzles
>a cave that changes its layout at different parts of the day and has an small ice sliding puzzle at the bottom
>an abandoned power plant where you need to press certain switches to progress
>old ship where you need to figure out where different hidden keys are
>cave where you need to figure out that the number of rocks in the room tell you which direction to go, otherwise you need to start over
>entire trick house which has a series of different overworld puzzles
to nothing but
>cave where you literally do nothing but walk and click A in front of HM obstacle to progress
within the span of a single gen.
Chargestone Cave was good tho.
No it wasn't.
Watch this.
Yes it was.
Yes they were.
No they weren't.
Snowpoint Temple, Turnback Cave, and Dragonspiral Tower, both Unova Victory Roads, and the Strange House were neat.
No they weren't.
Neither were Seafloor Cavern (example 2), trial and error (example 3), Pokemon Mansion lite (example 5), or Lost Cave (example 7) which is what Turnback Cave on a smaller scale
Now go back to falseflagging, Hoennbaby
>th-they weren't good because I say so
Not an argument.
>which is what Turnback Cave on a smaller scale
You reach Giratina in Turnback Cave by literally just walking in any direction. It's entirely luck based and involves no problem solving. It's nothing like Lost Cave. Do DSgays play their own games?
>th-they weren't good because I say so
Speak for yourself lmfao
>You reach Giratina in Turnback Cave by literally just walking in any direction. It's entirely luck based and involves no problem solving. It's nothing like Lost Cave.
And whatever room you're lead to in Lost Cave is semi-randomly determined. Same shit but there's a pattern since the rewards are insignificant
>Do DSgays play their own games?
Do you? Surely you're not considering the Sky Pillar mach bike sections, the trick house puzzles, the "open the provided manual", and baby's first slide puzzle remotely complex?
>Speak for yourself lmfao
I already explained why the gen 3 maps are good. You haven't explained why the DS maps are good. Please keep up.
>And whatever room you're lead to in Lost Cave is semi-randomly determined
No, because you need to deliberately go in the correct direction to actually make progress.
>Do you?
Yes. That's how I know how bad the games are.
>Surely you're not considering the Sky Pillar mach bike sections, the trick house puzzles, the "open the provided manual", and baby's first slide puzzle remotely complex?
They're drastically more complex than whatever the frick the DS games did.
>I already explained why the gen 3 maps are good
>Multi-floor labyrinth with ice puzzles reminiscent of the gym outside. Find your way in the final room through elaborate inputs to be rewarded by a rare Pokemon encounter
>A maze full of rooms with various layouts that through luck and good intuition rewards you with a rare Pokemon encounter or a rare item on subsequent visits
>Not much of a labyrinth, but a landmark significant to the lore of the region with various valuable collectables throughout and a rare Pokemon encounter awaiting you in BW2
>A mandatory dungeon in both games that combines its interior and exterior to form a maze for the player to traverse through. In BW you'll be rewarded from breaking away from the intended path with a rare Pokemon encounter. Also has an unique OST
>Mostly linear dungeon, but unique it its presentation at the time where you're loop around the living room and the library multiple times until you're able to enter the center room on the upper floor. Rewarding with an item that'll enable you to encounter a rare Pokemon. Also has an unique OST
>No, because you need to deliberately go in the correct direction to actually make progress.
I can ensure you that much of the intended audience just made their way by chance.
>Yes. That's how I know how bad the games are.
Same, which is why I know you're full of shit when trying to claim shit like Seafloor Cavern is complex
>They're drastically more complex than whatever the frick the DS games did.
(You) failing at the mach bike puzzle for an hour because you're unable to click up and right in a quick sequence isn't complex
>I can ensure you that much of the intended audience just made their way by chance.
There were some that were not hard to stumble upon and accidentally figure out, but there were others that ranged in difficulty.
Turnback Cave isn’t even luck-based unless you want all the items
no matter what you’re guaranteed to find Giratina
Sinnoh Victory Road had bike challenges too
also the Marley section
>Sinnoh Victory Road had bike challenges too
No it doesn't.
>also the Marley section
What about it?
>areas where you need to bike extremely carefully over it otherwise you fall and need to start over
there was never a required mach bike puzzle. like during the main story quest in emerald there are alternate sky pillar maps without cracked floors. the only others in gen iii that i can think of are mirage tower and a small bonus area in granite cave. it wasn't used as a mechanic extensively.
trick house was good though
>there was never a required mach bike puzzle.
Yes, because back in Gen 3 dungeons were used to reward players after completing extra challenges and give them a sense of agency instead of meaninglessly padding the game with random encounter spam.
Gen 3 really did feel like a more ambitious version of gen 1+2 in some ways, even though it dialed it back in other aspects
>Why did they completely remove dungeons in the later gens?
Because they're not interesting enough to keep around.
The game is about battling.
People hated HM puzzles.
These extremely simple puzzles were just a pace breaker
It's really simple. Pokemon isn't an RPG anymore. Game Freak is doing everything they possibly can to turn single-player Pokemon into barbie dress-up dollhouse teaparty. Multiplayer battles have always been easily replaced by simulations on web browsers and such and might as well not exist outside of locally battling your friends, as opposed to strangers. It begs the question: why even buy Pokemon "games"? Why spend money on a product where you just have luncheon picnics with your furry waifu and traverse empty open world wastelands and hallways?
Pokemon was intended to be an alternative to Dragon Quest for children. The further it strays, the worse it gets.
>The game is about battling
Why even play the games instead of simulating battles on smogon or whatever?
>People hated HM puzzles
They hate exploration. You need 2 things for good exploration: treasure (new pokemon and items) and obstacles (HMs and trainers).
It baffles me that people still buy or "play" the newest games. For what? So you can feel like you're really playing with your favorite pokemon, like Tropius or Gardevoir or Charizard or whatever?
The autists still playing new games would have a better time laying in bed stimming while pretending to be having virtual teaparty dolly dressup instead of wasting $60 every year or 2.
Fiery Path sucked and was way too short. The encounter rate seemed higher to make up for it which is moronic. You need bigger dungeons with less encounters.
>Pokemon was intended to be an alternative to Dragon Quest for children.
Dragon Quest IS for children
>It's really simple. Pokemon isn't an RPG anymore.
>The further it strays, the worse it gets.
nailed it
People will still buy it so they don't care. There may be a dev who wants a 3D pokemon rpg, but if the company says no they said no. They own the ip. There are tons of games that could be made with just a little more time and effort. It's not up to the devs unless one of the devs is also deciding their direction.
Take for example EA. Battlefront and Madden. All Dice had to do for Battlefront was take the maps from the first 2 and update them. Basically make Battlefront a battlefield game. Then update the graphics. With Madden they could easily make NFL 2K5 along with microtransactions, but they won't. I'm sure many devs want to make that, but they can't.
Kitakami has 2 good caves though.
Paldea has two good ones as well.
>Find le, but in le dark!
>E-Reader slop
Those are what the Hoenn water routes are for but with Tentacools instead
>has to shift goalposts to something other than dungeons
>the problem he mentions is still a problem in Sinnoh anyway ON TOP of all its shit dungeons
You lost.
>has to shift goalposts to something other than dungeons
How is Cave of Origin not a dungeon? It has multiple rooms, it has wild encounters, and it's mandatory
>the problem he mentions is still a problem in Sinnoh anyway ON TOP of all its shit dungeons
>still hasn't debunked
>Multi-floor labyrinth with ice puzzles reminiscent of the gym outside. Find your way in the final room through elaborate inputs to be rewarded by a rare Pokemon encounter
>A maze full of rooms with various layouts that through luck and good intuition rewards you with a rare Pokemon encounter or a rare item on subsequent visits
>Not much of a labyrinth, but a landmark significant to the lore of the region with various valuable collectables throughout and a rare Pokemon encounter awaiting you in BW2
>A mandatory dungeon in both games that combines its interior and exterior to form a maze for the player to traverse through. In BW you'll be rewarded from breaking away from the intended path with a rare Pokemon encounter. Also has an unique OST
>Mostly linear dungeon, but unique it its presentation at the time where you're loop around the living room and the library multiple times until you're able to enter the center room on the upper floor. Rewarding with an item that'll enable you to encounter a rare Pokemon. Also has an unique OST
>No, because you need to deliberately go in the correct direction to actually make progress.
I can ensure you that much of the intended audience just made their way by chance.
>Yes. That's how I know how bad the games are.
Same, which is why I know you're full of shit when trying to claim shit like Seafloor Cavern is complex
>They're drastically more complex than whatever the frick the DS games did.
(You) failing at the mach bike puzzle for an hour because you're unable to click up and right in a quick sequence isn't complex
I accept your concession
>It's based off a mythological location bro. Why should there be more to it other than a surf prompt and a TM you can just get infinitely in Emerald
>respects the player's time instead of having a bunch of corridors for an equally shallow amount of content
based hoenn
If this was a Sinnoh "dungeon" it would be 3x as long and be filled with Geodude and Zubat instead of unique poison and fire Pokemon.
Gen 5 won.
>instead of unique poison and fire Pokemon.
The only unique mon in that cave is Torkoal through, unless you like grimer and koffing
>instead of unique poison and fire Pokemon.
The only unique mon in that cave is Torkoal through, unless you like grimer and koffing
Why do they look so empty and soulless?
Gen 3 had the worst artstyle in the series prior to Gen 9
Because they are literally empty, there is literally nothing there. You get a Fire Stone whoppie you can get that at the mall in gym 7 god knows you wont have Strength for a while anyway.
there's no better feeling then going out of your way to explore in RSE and being rewarded with a secret base spot.
that was sarcasm, by the way.
My brothers and I always put our secret bases in the most convenient locations possible to access each others NPC copy for Battle EXP easily
>he acted like a 5 year old building his super cool secret base where he couldn't hear mom and dad yelling at each other
lmao
all the cave spots triggered the frick out of me for how much wasted space it had, that also happened in the Underground bases of Gen 4 its the worst feeling.
What are you even arguing about.
OP complains about dungeons not being in Pokemon games anymore
Hoennchad comes in and explains why dungeons used to be good but became shit by Gen 4 so they may as well have been removed
OP proceeds to seethe into oblivion
>comes in and explains why dungeons used to be good
You mean the repel spam bait with shitty rewards or are mandatory? lol
>Hoennchad
It's the Kalosgay that also likes Hoenn as the remake was in Gen 6
>Hoennchad comes in and explains why dungeons used to be good but became shit by Gen 4 so they may as well have been removed
Dungeons were good, but one gen had bad dungeons, therefore we should never have them again? What kind of moronic logic is that? Just make them good again.
Does Paldea have dungeons or not?
>Does Paldea have dungeons or not?
It doesn't really have dungeons, but it does have a few nice caves that are fun to explore.
>but one gen had bad dungeons
They're not even 'objectively bad'. The main criticism he's used against them was "muh wild encounters" as if that doesn't apply to the majority of dungeons that aren't non-Hoenn evil team hideouts. If anything, the wild encounter are at their absolute worst in Gen 3 which is why he didn't mention shit like Magma Hideout.
Regardless, you're correct on that even if there were to be a blemish on a solid track records for Pokemon dungeons, there's no sound reasoning as to why they shouldn't attempt to make more
I agree, I'm saying what that's a bad argument.
I liked the dungeons in 4 and 5.
>Game Freak clearly lost their talent for making them so yes.
That's still stupid. Do better, find that talent again. I think they've lost their talent for making Pokemon games period, but you don't see me saying they should just stop making them.
>FIERY Path in Gen 3 has what you would expect, Fire Pokemon, on top of a mix of Poison Pokemon.
>IRON Island in Gen 4, a place where you would expect to find Steel types like Aron or Mawile, is just more Graveler and Golbat spam instead.
>This is just one example. Gen 4 has tons of dogshit maps compared to Gen 3.
Pokemon selection is a little different than map and dungeon design, and I'm pretty sure that anon was complaining about the encounter rate, not what was available.
>I liked the dungeons in 4 and 5.
You can like whatever shit you want. They're still not good.
>Pokemon selection is a little different than map and dungeon design
It's a subset of dungeon design.
You can dislike whatever you want. They're still not bad.
See how that sounds?
Oh yeah like that never happened in Gen 3.
>You can dislike whatever you want
I haven't once said I disliked anything in this thread. All my points are objective.
>This shit is all entirely subjective.
It's subjective that Turnback Cave is entirely luck based and involves no problem solving?
It's subjective that Fiery Path has 5 unique encounters while Iron Island spams the same three shitty Pokemon you can already find in a dozen other areas in the game?
>It's subjective that Turnback Cave is entirely luck based and involves no problem solving?
How is it entirely luck based when there's objectively incorrect methods of progressing that aren't determined just by chance?
>Iron Island spams the same three shitty Pokemon you can already find in a dozen other areas in the game?
How do I find Steelix and get Riolu in DPPT?
>How is it entirely luck based when there's objectively incorrect methods of progressing that aren't determined just by chance?
Please tell the class what the correct strategy is for navigating Turnback Cave, anon. We would love to know.
>How do I find Steelix
By evolving Onix, which the game spams at you for multiple maps.
>and get Riolu
By walking through a shitty padded out ""dungeon"" with barely any gameplay until an NPC decides to give you one.
>Please tell the class what the correct strategy is for navigating Turnback Cave
I didn't say it's not in large part luck based, it's just not entirely determined by chance. The correct method will never just be going through the door you entered from for example
>By evolving Onix, which the game spams at you for multiple maps.
Cool, now tell me what's the most consistent method of obtaining a Metal Coat or how to get Steelix without trading
>By walking through a shitty padded out ""dungeon"" with barely any gameplay until an NPC decides to give you one.
What does that have to do with the obtainable Pokemon from Iron Island, which is the basis of this discussion?
>It's subjective that Turnback Cave is entirely luck based and involves no problem solving?
>It's subjective that Fiery Path has 5 unique encounters while Iron Island spams the same three shitty Pokemon you can already find in a dozen other areas in the game?
No, but it's subjective if those are good or bad things, or things to be worried about at all.
Also, Iron Island has Steelix, which doesn't appear again until Victory Road, and Onyx, which is at least a little unique, pretty sure it's only there and the coal mine. I guess you could count Riolu too. And Fiery Path has 4 unique encounters, not five; Machop's all over the Mt. Chimney area. Nitpicks, yes, but if you're going to insist on being objectively right, then please try to actually be that.
>No, but it's subjective if those are good or bad things
You're right. This thread is pointless. Gen 7+ actually has equally as good dungeons as all the gens before them, so what is OP even complaining about?
>b-but they're bad
Nope. It's all just subjective.
>I didn't say it's not in large part luck based
So it has no strategy and is still shit. Good to know.
>Cool, now tell me what's the most consistent method of obtaining a Metal Coat
By getting one from Byron.
>or how to get Steelix without trading
By transferring one from Gen 3.
>what does the dungeon being shit have to do with the dungeon being shit which is the basis of this discussion?
>I named the areas therefore they're good
>how do i get this without trading?
>transfer it
>>I named the areas therefore they're good
Ok. None of them share more than three Pokémon between them, and the ones that are shared are easily avoided, because of the swooping/dust clouds. They are also all relatively unique designs.
>Nope. It's all just subjective.
You're the one who said that it doesn't matter if you like something in a discussion about exactly that, gay. Cut the attitude.
>So it has no strategy and is still shit. Good to know.
That's not what he said.
>or how to get Steelix without trading
>By transferring one from Gen 3.
Anon...
>You're the one who said that it doesn't matter if you like something
Yes. Because if we're just going to make this about whether or not you like or dislike things this thread is 100% pointless.
>That's not what he said.
Yes it is.
>Anon...
Yes, ESLgay?
>Yes. Because if we're just going to make this about whether or not you like or dislike things this thread is 100% pointless.
If that's what you think then why are you even here? Preferences are the entire basis for this discussion.
>Yes it is.
No, it's not. And if you're just going to go "nuh uh" then I'm not giving you (You)s
>Yes, ESLgay?
>"How do I get Steelix without trading?"
>'By trading.'
>You get a Fire Stone whoppie you can get that at the mall in gym 7 god knows you wont have Strength for a while anyway.
You get Strength around the 4th gym. It's a much earlier stone.
>So it has no strategy and is still shit. Good to know.
Yep, just like the literal trial and error to get to the Sealed Chamber you mentioned earlier
>By getting one from Byron.
How do I get a Metal Coat consistently before the post game? I don't want to use an Onix against Lucian's Espeon...
>By transferring one from Gen 3.
Oh, so just like how I'm supposed to transfer Espeon and Umbreon from Colosseum?
>what does the dungeon being shit have to do with the dungeon being shit which is the basis of this discussion?
That's not what your point about Iron Island was originally about, but sure
>Gen 7+ actually has equally as good dungeons as all the gens before them
In what delusional world do you live in that SM actually has dungeons?
literally bland, boring and ugly looking "dungeon".
literally cool, exciting and awesome looking dungeon.
i don't understand the filename. it's just a great wide gash spread open for the enjoyment of all to come inside as he pleases and pleasures.
God just seeing maps of this shitty dungeon triggers ptsd. Felt like hours navigating this place listening to the ear bleedingly awful gen 7 music.
>You can like whatever shit you want. They're still not good.
You what? This shit is all entirely subjective.
>but one gen had bad dungeons
Gen 4 has bad dungeons.
Gen 5 has bad dungeons.
Gen 6 has bad dungeons.
It's more than one gen.
>therefore we should never have them again?
Game Freak clearly lost their talent for making them so yes.
>You need bigger dungeons
No you don't. The map wouldn't benefit from being bigger. "Make it big for the sake of making it big" is part of why Sinnoh's maps are so fricking dogshit.
>They're not even 'objectively bad'.
Yes they are.
>The main criticism he's used against them was "muh wild encounters"
The main criticism I'm using is that they have zero fricking gameplay outside of walking and clicking A in front of HM rocks.
>If anything, the wild encounter are at their absolute worst in Gen 3
FIERY Path in Gen 3 has what you would expect, Fire Pokemon, on top of a mix of Poison Pokemon.
IRON Island in Gen 4, a place where you would expect to find Steel types like Aron or Mawile, is just more Graveler and Golbat spam instead.
This is just one example. Gen 4 has tons of dogshit maps compared to Gen 3.
>The main criticism I'm using is that they have zero fricking gameplay outside of walking and clicking A in front of HM rocks.
So... just like Seafloor Cavern or Hoenn's Victory Road?
>IRON Island in Gen 4, a place where you would expect to find Steel types like Aron or Mawile, is just more Graveler and Golbat spam instead.
Where can I find Steelix in DPPT before Iron Island? Why is Magikarp the most common Pokemon in Hoenn?
OP complains about dungeons not being in Pokemon games anymore
PaldeaKINGS come and and show that the dungeons are just getting better and better.
Oh no the Dragon Quest virgin is back.
truly, there is a hoenngay behind every shitpost
The Sinnohgays and Unovagays are real fricking gullible for still not catching on
These are all Galargays falseflagging, actually.
>get called out for baiting
>immediately start shitting and pissing everywhere
Real cave coming through.
All I gleamed from this thread is that Gen 5's dungeons are the best.
true and correctpilled
Gen 5's dungeons are just as bad as Gen 6's.
gen 6 has pretty good dungeons
All I gleamed from this thread is that Gen 3's dungeons are the best as proven by specific examples and references while Unovagays mindlessly claim their dungeons are good simply for existing in Unova.
>Desert Resort
>Relic Castle
>Chargestone Cave
>Mistralton Cave
>Celestial Tower
>Twist Mountain
>Dragonspiral Tower
>Moor of Icirrus
>Giant Chasm
All i gleamed from this thread is that Paldea has the best caves.
>Silph Co.
>Pokemon Mansion
>Tin Tower
All better than Gen 3 garbage
> Gen 7+ actually has equally as good dungeons as all the gens before them,
Correct.
rough how my guy is going from this to arguing with unovagays in two hours about berries
Ok but HOW do I berry farm in Gen 5?
>Hard mode: I won't accept anything you say, even the way you farm berries
transfer them from gen 4
nah, just buy them all at Join ave
"transfer" them with your action replay of course
How do i catch Pikachu in Gen 5?
Pokétransfer.
>cut the mascot from the game and made it transfer only so you needed to buy 2 games to get Pikachu in Gen 5
lol...
Literally 0 (official) games let you catch everything on one cart
PLA wins again.
Shut up you gay.
>cart
I could've said GO otherwise 🙁
>Doesn't have MissingNO yet
Check and mate.
Does that game still do Country/Continent exclusive stuff
I haven't played it in years, but apparently so. Notably, the lake spirits are region exclusive
>He wants a PIKACHU
I HATE that stupid rat.
emolga is much more sexier anyway
>comfy genwar thread
huh
He could've recover from Steelix
Unova really was the peak and the last good pokemon games.
*Only good Pokémon games.
>>much better team building and combat than Pokemon does
Lol
Lmao
Shills are funny.
I played BDSP recently and Mt Coronet was BORING I was breezing through the game and I burnt myself out on it. It wasn't even hard my Gyarados swept everything.
>adhd zoomer gets burnt out when games arent straight railroads
Figures.
Mt Coronet is a straight railroad. Excluding the HMs there are at least 3 separate roadblocks that force you to go where the game wants you to go. It’s a master class in how not to design a map in a RPG.
>Straight railroad
It was though. I got to Cyrus and just saved the game and didn't play again fir a week.
Epic to see that Kinnoh haters have no real arguments and just say whatever they can think of and make a fool out of themselfs.
>Unovabros have gone against their Sinnohbro brothers in arms
It's joever.
THE GEN 5 CONQUEST SHALL CONTINUE!
>What did you gain besides wasted time?
And there it is. They never even played the games. Concession fukken accepted.
Now post the empty dead ends.
Im sure you can do it yourself buddy.
That isn't even Mt Coronet, you homosexual
Wow Sinnoh has MULTIPLE good dungeons? Crazy!
Yes it is? 4F 2.
It's also the only room the entire mountain with important items. (Plat only)
Everything else is "You found a great ball" tier
Hey, there's a big nugget! Somewhere. I think.
>Good items all around
Yup, best dungeon.
Every item that isn't unique, isn't worth going out of your way to find.
>rule i just made up
Yeah that with lying really sums up Unovakeks.
>Orb room isnt in Mt Coronet
KEK ill have to screencp that.
>>It's also the only room the entire mountain with important items. (Plat only)
You dumb, bro? Already said it.
There's like 4 items total worth getting in a fricking with 11 large areas
>doesnt just hand out stuff like free candy
Yeah. Good dungeon.
>11 areas
>4 good items
>tons of dead ends
No, it's bad
It's good. Do you have a reading problem?
I'd hate to see what you think is bad.
Lying is bad.
i fricking love great balls
Do you mind if they're very hairy?
>Kinnoh haters lying yet again
Shocker.
It's still a straight railroad tho
If that helps you sleep at night.
because gen 4 was too good and filtered kids, so masuda decided every gen after needed to be as linear and simple as possible
>Gen 1 remains the best gen because none of its major content is timegated or locked behind third versions or mandatory spinoffs with core game connectivity
Ahhh, feels good to be king.
If only the game was good...
>Good Pokemon variety
>Well designed areas
>Good difficulty curve
>Great OST
>Fundamentally sound game with just a few harmless oversights
>Many optional areas
>One of the faster Pokemon games
It's great
Talking about Paldea btw.
>Good difficulty curve
You get Nidoking by Mt Moon and you can have Gyarados by the third gym, reasonably.
>Good Pokemon variety
It suffers Zubatitis.
No it doesn't.
>Fundamentally sound game with just a few harmless oversights
KEK
RB is buggier than even SV
>RB is buggier than even SV
Not on the visual end
>locked behind third versions
Any pokemon game from gens 1-5 can be played for free even on a dogshit pc.
>Sinnohbtuses
wut
>Sinnohbtuse is an obtuse moron
no surprises there
They sold their soul to the devil
When Masuda was asked about why ORAS was so much easier than preceding games, he answered something along the lines of how the modern player has seamless access to a myriad other forms of entertainment, all at their fingertips. When kids got like 3 games a year they'd just play those games to death and milk all of the content dry, no matter how esoteric or challenging it could get. He was roasted for this comment, but you don't have to look too hard at the state of gaming to see that he was right. The modern player has something akin to ADHD, where the second his dopamine receptors aren't firing at full throttle he switches to something else. Publishers are terrified of players running into any friction or downtime, or they may drop the game and move onto something else. Everything must be so simple and straightforward that the lowest common denominator can glide through it without a hitch.
Most games obsequiously grovel to their audience instead of forcing them to meet it on its own terms, but it's even more apparent in Pokemon where the masses include literal 6 year olds.
Pokemon has become less and less of an RPG over the decades.
And dungeons are a core of RPGs
And since Pokemon isn't an RPG anymore, no need for dungeons.
Pokemon is a simulation with numbers attached to it instead of you playing a role in your story. That's why stuff is more streamlined than ever.
pokemon needs a full reboot at this point. take it back to a primarily singleplayer rpg with the gimmick of being able to capture and use any of the monsters you fight.
Pokemon has literally never been primarily a singleplayer rpg outside of PLA.
Human IQ (and subsequently player IQ) drops every year. At some point young players didn't have the mental capacity to successfully complete a dungeon.
I really like the gen 3 and 4 dungeons 🙂
>Silph Co.
>10-floor dungeon where you can access all floors right from the start, but the way to progress to the boss fights at the end has to be found by exploring all over (and there's a bunch of pathways behind cross-floor teleporters and doors you need a key for)
You know, I've never really put that much thought into it before, but what an interesting and unique dungeon design. Are there any other RPGs out there that have done anything similar before Pkmn Red/Green?