Why do bosses in modern 2D games often feel so lacking? There's something unsatisfying about a lot of the bosses in Hollow Knight and Metroid Dread. Feels too stiff in design, like you're just memorizing, going through the motions, waiting out a timer counting the hits. Unlike something like Mega Man Zero, the bosses attacks and patterns basically just spell themselves out to you with incredibly discrete openings and pacing. I'm hardly ever questioning, "How do I dodge this move?" or "What risks can I take to beat this boss faster?"
Maybe it's a problem with things feeling overly calculated, the developers are way too conscious of design and balance instead of concept. Sort of like why Souls games declined from 1 to 3.
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what a bunch of buzzwords
name 6
Based take
nailed it.
there is a distinct lack of problem solving in games these days.
They never have that level of "HOLY FRICK THIS IS HORSESHIT! THIS IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE! WHAT THE FRICK DO I EVEN DO?"
That start at approximately the 3/4 point in an old bossfight where you've mostly figured out the pattern and it's just a matter of execution and keeping an eye out for new moves.
In other words, all the new bosses feel like you're MEANT to beat them old boss fights felt like a fight, like the boss is actually trying to kill you, and you win anyway in spite of it.
That's a good way of putting it. I don't know if it's a real objective improvement or not, but I kind of miss stuff like this.
At the very least it'd be better without the "hit my glowing weakpoint" gimmick. For instance, even though it doesn't quite fit in this discussion, there was a moment in Dragon's Dogam where I was fighting the dragon, Grigori, and noticed he had like ten healthbars after I spent ten straight minutes whittling through the first one where I thought "wow, that's a lot of health, I wonder when the instant death gimmick weakness segment will start" and then it DIDN'T and I legit just had to spend another SOLID HOUR just fighting him.
In the end it was much more satisfying, if a little frustrating and repetitive. No weird gimmick, just KILL THE BOSS WITHOUT DYING! Hit him with your sword until the health goes to zero!
I think that's what's missing. Bullethell has something similar, there's no gimmick, you just keep shooting the boss for as long as you can without dying, and if ther'e s any "pattern" to it it's a natural "can't hit the boss because I have to ficus on dodging" and not "can't hit the boss because he hasn't stuck his ass out and spread his anus for me yet"
>taking a whole hour to kill greg
You're either shitposting or just plain moronic
Also you're not ten anymore, you can learn bosses way quicker than you used to
moronic homosexual
games are designed to be finished by most brainded of fricks(like me). the last time I had something truly wallbanging hard was optional double sharks in bb dlc well. I think the dev's and publishers are scared of journos and normies, thats why there are no unbeatable or almost unbeatable content even optional.
those double well sharks can suck a dick.
>Update
for sure but I still think games are missing that kind of optional shit.
>Update
what is this jank shit, I didn't do that/
It lacks based bullet hell designs.
I'll never understand Hollow Knight dickriders. It's a great game, sure, but the fans are just shameless
HK only has dickriders because the hate is obnoxious so people have to compensate. HK is genuinely one of, if not THE most unfairly shat on games I've ever seen on Ganker. I don't see how someone can't admit that it's one of the best indie games ever made. Probably is the best indie game ever made.
Play a real game with real bosses that use real attacks and require real strategy to beat.
>just jump and attack
>Maybe it's a problem with things feeling overly calculated, the developers are way too conscious of design and balance instead of concept.
yeah
I played it yesterday and had the same thought
and why the did they add that shitty dark souls mechanic after death?
>like you're just memorizing, going through the motions, waiting out a timer counting the hits.
That's what literally every boss ever is.
the boss fights in HK are one of the best parts of the game. maybe im shit but i was asking these questions often for most bosses. there were very few fights that didnt gameover me before i beat them, but once you master the fight it feels like a dance.
as early as the mantis lords fight it has you asking when you can and cant heal. and once you get to dream nail fights like Lost Kin the game kicks your teeth in if you arent able to adapt.
>the game would be better if it had objectively worse game design with artificial difficulty
I hate people like you so fricking much.
wrong thread? he didn't type that.
No he actually did. He complains about fights being too telegraphed which would only be different if things like hit boxes were worse or attacks didn't have tells. Those are both artificial difficulty and objectively bad game design.
A lot of indie games are way too forgiving and telegraphed. Its not bad game design to have a sly attack every now and then. Games are just way too easy these days.
and yet anons to this day complain about rng in ftl
I played some of the older Castlevenia titles recently and the only difference to something like Hollow knight is they control like shit so you have to fight with the controls as much as you do the enemy. Hollow Knight only feels easier because you can actually move as you intend with some of the smoothest controls I've ever seen in a side scroller. That's the only reason Hollow Knight is easier and it's a good thing. Sure maybe you can argue the bosses need a boost to match that more but going too far would just make it cheap.
Doesn't change the fact that the bosses in HK are often boring and unsatisfying compared to bosses in older games.
The early bosses maybe but the end bosses and especially DLC bosses are all fantastic and much better than any shit I've seen in a Megaman game or Castlevenia. Just admit you don't like it because it's new and frick off because you can't convince me your opinion comes from anywhere but nostalgia bias.
Seems like you're the one using "nostalgia" and "shiny new thing" as a crutch here, not me.
When all your criticism is either wrong or directly applies to every old game too. Yes, you're biased.
I played the Zero and ZX series after Hollow Knight, by the way. I don't feel like entertaining this "it's just better because the controls/tech are better" horseshit when Dawn of Sorrow from 2005 is as fluid as Hollow Knight anyway. Maybe it doesn't have an iframe dash move, but still.
>when Dawn of Sorrow from 2005 is as fluid as Hollow Knight anyway.
And has much worse bosses while also being easier than HK. But sure, nice comparison.
Also ignoring the ways in which HK does things better like in attack variety and speed being much higher.
As opposed to... what exactly? I've never played Mega Man Zero but looking up videos on the bosses there, they all seem to have two attacks or so, and they only ever use one or the other and never combine them, and they're all extremely telegraphed, and you attack whenever you have an opening, preferably between attacks since it seems the safest. The exception would be the final boss which seems to switch between a few sets of attacks, although again he only uses one at a time.
I fail to see how they are any different from most bosses in Hollow Knight really, though Hollow Knight has some really tough bosses in the endgame that you probably couldn't hope to feasibly defeat if they were put at the end of a 3-4 hour long game from the 80's/90's with limited lives and continues, since they require so much practice to master.
HK being hated is the hollowgays's fault, they're basically the HxH gays of vidya bringing it up everytime