why should i? are you some kinda blizztroon employee? frick off, never going to pay a single cent since legion, private servers do classic better than whatever aids infested shit nu-blizz could come up with Black person
>hurr durr you want to talk about vidya on Ganker dont you know that this board is only for shitposting and baiting???!?
die Black person you fricking homosexual
Name one thing about Legion that was good that wasn't M+ and suramar.
>pvp worst its ever been >artifact grind makes dual spec shit >legendary worst system ever created, complete rng >raids all horrible outside of like 3 bosses in the final tier >open world shit besides suramar, world quests bullshit >balance horrible, drought of souls, unstable arcanocrystal, warlock, 7.0 ele shaman >leveling story horrible, "Muh tyrande" butchered Malfurion >open world patch shit heavily timegated and years worse then the shit bfa gave us
Legion gays are the dumbest WoW gamers, worse then DF babies.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Shaman was fun so it was a good expansion
7 months ago
Anonymous
You gotta remember that Legiongays only remember the last month of Legion when it was the prepatch and all the bad shit was mitigated.
Classic is more of an adventure, while Retail is just getting your gearscore higher to do the highest content, everything else is pointless”. Retail suffers from the “it gets good in 50 hours!” a lot of games have nowadays.
yes this is what i was thinking about as well
Classic has the whole game as one big journey while leveling in retail is just a roadbump until the actual game
Retail >make account >buy boost >buy carries to get gear >buy even more carries so you get the logs that make people wanna raid with you >do the same thing with alts >read the guides to check what and how to play >watch hours of videos which can tell you what and how to play >install all the 100+ essential plugins that all the raiders use >are available when your group wants to raid >do that every week
Classic: >make character you want >level >have fun with others
oh yeah thats definitely why 99% of classic server pops just raidlog then
7 months ago
Anonymous
What else do you wanna log? How fast you got to max level?
There are just tons of raidlogs cause lots of people play classic - and classic has raids. But raids have never been the main appeal for classic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because vanilla doesn't force you to log in every single day and do your daily chores
you can reach a point where you are "finished" with the game and have nothing else to do besides raid every week and do any PvP that you want to
that's exactly why I love it
7 months ago
Anonymous
>NOOOOOOO what about my heckin' engagement numberinos?
You can also farm gold.
If I had a criticism of WoW Classic, it doesn't have any real post-raid dungeons. After you've done the initial dungeons, you've effectively "graduated" from them and move on permanently to raids, and raids can only be done once a week, which leads to raid logging. The only other thing that can really be done at max level is farming gold or PvP.
If there is a Classic+, high tier, post-raid dungeons would be one of the things I would ask for.
7 months ago
Anonymous
They have Heroic+ dungeons in Wrath classic now, which is heroics adjusted to still be challenging for each tier of content and drops epics from the last tier raid from the final boss, so I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar show up in Classic+ if it ever materializes
7 months ago
Anonymous
that's what mythic dungeons in retail are
that's what mythic dungeons in retail are
I should clarify.
When I say I would want high tier dungeons, I mean I want original dungeon content that's meant for players who are also raiding. I did not mean that I want recycled dungeons I've already done a hundred times, but with the stats tuned up.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Retail has 'megadungeons' which fill this role. I doubt classic+ has the budget for this though, classic has always been the red headed stepchild of wow that the retail team resents for even existing
7 months ago
Anonymous
Aren't "megadungeons" just really big dungeons (by the standards of retail)?
7 months ago
Anonymous
They're long dungeons only available in mythic mode so tuned for geared players only, which meets your requirement about dungeons meant for players who are raiding
7 months ago
Anonymous
Well, that's neat. Shame its only in Retail, though.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The existing megadungeon is tuned to be challenging for mythic raiders or +15-20 key runners.
It will be nerfed in 1 month when 10.2 releases and turned into a mythic+ dungeon.
>>make account >>buy boost >>buy carries to get gear >>buy even more carries so you get the logs that make people wanna raid with you >>do the same thing with alts >>read the guides to check what and how to play
hours of videos which can tell you what and how to play
all the 100+ essential plugins that all the raiders use >>are available when your group wants to raid >>do that every week
Yeah but in classic you cant do that right?
you Black folk are legit moronic
Oh wait in vanilla you could just buy a bot that could do everything for you, game was so much better
The thing is that you CAN boost in vanilla but doing so is dumb cause playing the game normally is whats appealing about it.
In retail you get forced to boost cause otherwise nobody will play with you. You need to buy carries to get logs in order to get into a decent guild that plays mythic. Of course you CAN get your discord buddies and real life friends and convince them to raid in WoW with you buy good luck with that kek.
me and one other buddy literally just started chatting with people in orgrimmar in the dragonflight prepatch and we formed a semi-casual guild with some good m+ pushers and we managed to carry our casual guild members to AOTC in raid so its not like it cant be done
The sense of exploration is way better on originals, the game does not hold your hand:
If you overpull you are completely fricked, meanwhile on retail even on leveling the game makes enemies a complete joke and only if you class is complete garbage in sustain you can probably die if you overpull.
It's mostly a open world, you have only loading screens to enter dungeons, raids and changing from Kalimdor from Eastern Kingdoms.
Raids were cool because they were obtuse and a good first time challenge and a cake walk to farming, on retail only if you are on the top 100 world you can farm and ultra overgeared you can farm with no problems.
Geardesign I will just say that armors were more simple, on retail they insist in doing tier sets that barely makes makes any sense design wise.
Gameplay was worst, but the sense of getting more powerful each level and with new gear piece is way better than retail.
Classes barely half of them don't work properly and are badly balanced but they are great, every class has his unique flavour not like on retail that every class balancing consists on making everything equal in DPS/HPS/Tankiness and nerfing/buffing utility, come on, playing as a Hunter lost all the magic the moment they took out the possibility of having access to at least one buff that your comp.
classic throws you into a world where going into a lake can sometimes mean encountering the fricking lockness monster, retail holds your hand every second to make sure baby doesn't fall down
you feel like a small part of a massive world in classic, in retail you're the eternal champion sent from heaven to defeat the enemy
from music to settings to combat (simplicity over needing to know every cooldown and added ability) to characters to story, classic is objectively better
In Classic, you are a character existing in a world that operates independently of you.
In Retail, you are riding a themepark ride.
The first is conducive to organic social interaction.
The second is not. Structured social interaction is not the same as setting people loose.
Social interaction is the reason why you play an MMORPG, as opposed to the huge selection of other games to choose from.
It's that fricking simple, idiots.
Retail is obsessed with esports and ratings and the entire endgame is gatekept by sweatlord cretins whose only accomplishment in life is getting AOTC. The community is by far the biggest problem with retail and they refuse to do anything about it. In fact they handed the community the tools to gatekeep even harder by integrating r.io rating directly into the game client. I no longer believe they're interested in solving it, because the game director is one of these sweatlord cretins himself and sees no issue.
Better classes.
Everyone and everything in retail is just rogue. Classic wow has very clear difference between classes and design philosophy behind them.
Better combat.
Actual numbers of damage and HP instead of scaling % of a %. Skill actually make a difference even in PVE, combat encounters are not just stat check.
Better open world.
It's not scaling with your level so you can always return to content that was too hard for you in the beginning and solo it while feeling real progress of your character. The treasures and rare drops are not just transmogs but actually very valuable finds that will stay on you for a long time, not 20 minutes.
Better experience for new players. Game is just easier to understand overall.
Better community and social interactions experience.
Better experience overall because when a game is not calculated to be the most optimal esport and "quality of life" goyslop ever, it can often times create unique interactions with the world and other players. I have hundreds adventure stories about meeting weird and interesting people, or fighting with horde in hillsbrad whole night, or making it through stratholme with randoms, or sneaking into horde zones to do dungeons, or finding creative ways to deal with difficult quest.
It's all of those things to some degree. But also, what's really, REALLY, important for an MMO that Classic nails is the PACE of progression. It's slow enough to feel meaningful, but fast enough not to blow your brains out. That goes for levelling, power gain with talents, toolkit expansion with abilities, and gear upgrades.
When you get that good weapon, you frickin feel it.
What shocks me to this day when it comes to writing. Old WoW writing wasn't amazing, it was extremely basic and serviceable. A lot of writers think a small generic "Bandits kidnapped my daughter for ransom help" story is bad because it's generic when that is just a writer's trap, just because its been done before doesn't make it bad writing. Instead of that it's "Bandits kidnapped my daughter, but hes also a victim of his world and is also having relationship issues! Also, I'm gay". It's like your browsing a WoW lore wiki where everything is spoonfed to you.
From what I know they also don't even do the interactable objects (diaries or notes in npc buildings) anymore. These would be the place to put all that extra shit. You only found out about the bandits possible past from clues in his home.
Retail's talent trees and huge and have some interesting things in them, but a lot the talents are redundant. You also aren't really committing to a build because you can reset your talents whenever you want, wherever you want. Makes it feel cheap to me. Retail feels like you're getting ass blasted to level cap and then you play with screeching autists who poke at you nonstop because you being not optimal is ruining their day/life.
The crit talents are actually kind of cool because it is also decreasing your chance to miss as well. There's a reason why +1% crit/hit items are so valuable at 60
Yeah but don't they both stack with each other and against miss chance? Like when you get a percent of crit that decreases your ability to miss by the same percent. It's been forever since I last read about it honestly
Now retail has been just retconning everything and adding needless "but they did this for a good reason! "Erm they actually didn't do that!" and "They were actually controlled by cosmic forces so that's why they did that!"
This. Classic was badass. Modern WoW is fanfiction written by furries and femboys. They completely ruined most of the old Warcraft lore with their horrible writing.
undead just experimenting and torturing races
orcs just killing everything they march into
night elf babes killing everyone in their woods while the dudes sleep
tauren going on spirit quests high on their own jenkem
dwarves and gnomes just being bros
Story was not overly complex to the point of being completely stupid as shit, it was very simple and black and white.
Now the WoW story is all the races must align for a common purpose and saying shit like, "We must do better...we must BE better...not just for our future...but for the future...of ALL..
it just reads like some ad you'd see during campaigner season.
tell me about how many druid or paladin tanks are in the top 100 guilds anon go ahead and tell me about how your "but i grind mobs in burning steppes as a feral druid just fine!!!" experience
the game is 15 years old any class can raid >top 100 guild
again 15 years old all mechanics are known and studied and you can easily get through everything without min maxing
Classic+ will fail if you morons that just want retail are in charge of decisions. Paladins are the best healers and that’s still not enough. Frick off you moronic homosexual.
>dungeons have staying power; everyone wants to do ubrs for rend heads or alts and it’s simple fun >lore is true to wc3, which is the original buy-in >world buffs incentivize min-maxing but aren’t required to clear content >pvp plays entirely different than pve. Warriors get shit on by Ele shamans
It has everything. Letting people streamline the experience is a massive mistake.
For me the most important thing to vanilla wow is that it's not a fricking bloated mess of conflicting art styles and design. The game just feels so much better to play when there isn't a fricking panda wearing a bikini riding on a dinosaur in the middle of your grounded fantasy town. It seriously ruins the game for me to see so much cosmetic fricking shit everywhere.
>Regular old WoW >You're just some shmuck who's good in a fight, heroes basically recruit you as extra fire power against the big bads. >After big bad is defeated, you're basically free to return to your life of adventure and sell swording. >WoW Now >you are THE most important homie in all of Azeroth. Everything depends on what YOU do because you're the CHAMPION
They killed off Tyrion for frick sakes.
fricking moron
vanilla had you fighting old gods, the second in command to the lich king himself and his personal army, and an aspect
frick off with this "vanilla was low stakes!!!" shit, wow was never low stakes
His point was "we weren't put into the light as the main character but instead in the story to help" and somehow you missed this to defend modern blizzard.
Reading is a skill and you lack said skill.
nah Black person you were literally the main character
who else did the argent dawn send in to fight kel'thuzad? oh that's right nobody
it was you and 39 other weirdos who spent 2 weeks grinding zombies for rep turn ins
No you aren't THE main character but you are prominent.
They send in 40 adventurers to deal with these problems, you are a part of a whole instead of being the whole.
You aren't THE Champion of Azeroth who is still shoveling shit or killing ten dragonland gnolls for the sneed tribe of centaurs, thats the most jarring part tbh
i would never want back the WPvP in the capacity it was back in vanilla but for the love of god can we please just make battlegrounds good again and remove the stupid resilience nonsense
i did move to a PvE server, after dealing with WPvP Black folk for longer than i should have. my point is those PvP servers are either dead beyond recognition or so heavily in favor of one faction that they're not worth playing on in the first place
>Classic WoW >Walking in the world >See someone while making my way from point A to B >Strike up a conversation >Make a new friend
Versus >Retail WoW >See someone fly at mach speed past you on their dragon >People randomly phase in and out of shards >Sit in the capital and queue for shit or browse group finder for M+ >No incentive to explore the world because add-ons tell you about everything you need to know
Retail is literally dead. Fricking Black Desert Online has more players than retail WoW. Nobody wants to hang out with non-binary dragons and gay furries just to get a higher gearscore.
Classic is WoW at this point.
Retail is troony shit that will die once Classic+ rolls out.
Your only choice for WoW is playing classic with one mechanic bosses, or playing retail where weakauras just plays the game for you because shit is beyond convoluted now.
because its easy
people like feeling good about themselves, about beating the hardest content in the game and having the best gear
not possible in retail without dedicating your whole life to mythic raids or these time trial dungeons or whatever it is that currently gives the top stats
classic is a solved game, you can just enjoy it without worrying about farming up for the next raid or learning some new boss strats
I know for me it's just simply I'm not good enough, I like to be competitive in any game I play, but there's just simply too much going on for my boomer brain to keep up with in retail. Because of such I'm a shitter, so I stick with classic.
Yeah i find it odd people say turtle wow has trannies and you should pay blizzard a sub for classic instead... it's like bruh have you see modern retail.
Classic WoW and Burning Crusade are pretty good examples of mmos that feel like mmos, but it's only really good the first time around. You will never suffer your same mistakes and learn from them. You will never rediscover the abilities of other classes through making friends of people with said classes. I wish I could experience the game all over again, but it's not the same.
It's funny to remember the amount of people saying classic wow was going to die fast when the novelty wears off and that was everything just nostalgia. The only think it did was to make realize both boomers and zoomers that it was the actual best experience wow could ever have. And that the design choices for the expansions were all shit
>game is pretty much exclusively played by fat nolifeneckbeards who like big titty dark elves and who wish they could be a tall ass gigachad warrior who kills people with his sheer aura of manliness >devs are a bunch of troons who make the story about muh feelings and muh peace and muh understanding frick racism btw
I have been wrong about things before, so I can't answer why people, in general, prefer classic wow.
I have an idea, but it could be wrong.
What I CAN tell you is why I (me) enjoy classic HC wow over retail, and that's because to me it feels like a real little world.
I like that hunters have to feed their pets and keep them happy, that you can walk around Stormwind and recognize individuals based on their gear and all the trials they must have gone through, that before embarking on your next questing adventure you have to make bombs, buy potions, elixirs, food, bandages, and pack your lucky mechanical squirrel with you.
You never know if the friends you made have perished; sometimes you catch a glimpse of them as they leave the AH, other times you never see them again, leaving you to wonder what happened to them. It is a wonderful experience to play.
>classes have unique strengths and weaknesses and specific niches they fill >stats actually matter instead of being decoration that you ignore in favor of gearscore >classes generally have cool non-combat stuff they can do (no idea if this is still the case in retail because classes get overhauled constantly) >game doesn't hold your hand while leveling >aesthetic is generally better and more in line with wc3 >dungeon design wasn't afraid of doing cool shit like brd being a gigantic labryinth city
Vanilla is an mmorpg, retoilet is third person diablo for furries. That being said, vanilla is best experienced on a private server because pserver admins dont ignore server balance and gold buying like blizzard does.
retail's big problem right now is m+ makes casual raiding pointless, which means most guilds (the core of the game) have nothing to do, they based the whole game on unfun stuff only 5% of people like doing (poopsock raiding/keys) again, it should be the opposite with the focus on casual raiding with generous rewards
>playing through Wrath on Lordaeron private server >several people leveling, PvP is there but not autistic levels of fighting >have previous characters I can transfer gold from so I can run around with a better set of gear on my lock
Honestly I don't even understand why this server still gets the traffic it does, but it's still comfy.
Classic felt like an adventure, it was a much better game and not nostalgia. I got back to it a year ago and the journey was still fun. Tried wow for the last time on I think Legion and the game sucked ass so much, it felt like a hamster wheel, no journey at all, same as FFXIV.
I don't. I quit WoW after Burning Crusade came out and I'm astounded the game only got more popular after that point and it took more than a decade for people to realize it was shit. That's when I realized I'm actually smarter than 99% of the population.
Just look at hardcore. Classic is the fun experience where you live in a breathing world where tons of shit can go wrong or right.
In Retail WoW you raid - and you raid - and maybe you do some pvp in between - then you raid more. Feels like you are walking on a treadmill and expect to get somewhere.
In Classic meanwhile you make whatever character you want - have your little adventure - and once you feel that this story is done you make a new one and start all over again and have a completely new experience.
classic is easier than retail so people can buy GDKP gear easier than retail too. keep in mind people who were "pro" classic players were dying in tier 5 raids in TBC and only cleared classic vanilla due to world buff stacking
>dood classic is easy
Yeah. That's the point.
The game is easy to get into and you don't need to watch a million guides before getting into it. You also don't need to install a bunch of mods to make the game playable. It's casual as frick but that's why Classic is alive unlike retail. People ain't got no time for the bullshit there anymore.
No one talks or interact with each other in retail, it might as well be a single player game. Classic at least feels like a world, an actual fricking MMORPG that many other games can't even claim to be anymore.
Exactly my experience in FFXIV, dunno why people play MMORPGs to not be social and the game is literally designed for single player gameplay, actively disencouraging multiplayer aside from dungeons/raids.
I actually like that about FFXIV.
It's a pretty social MMO, but only if you want it to be that, like going to ingame casino's or clubs, doing ultimates and savages, that stuff requires you to be social. But if you want none of that, you still are able to do content such as the MSQ, Island sanctuary, Alliance Raids and Extremes.
I hate it when people want the mmo to be entirely social, or not social at all, like Wow classic and retail.
I just wish for a fresh MMORPG that had a huge world to explore in different ways with mostly horizontal progression like FFXI but with good gameplay, so that I could level through it in different ways and then after I'm on max level, I'd to max level content for a while and create a new character.
Right now the only game like that is classic wow and maybe os runescape.
classic was about racing to max level too though. the most popular addon is literally an addon so you dont need to read quest text and can just follow markers on the map
Even if you didn't read it, just going through the places and doing the quests lead you to journeying through the world and doing so many different actions, visiting cool places, and it also took like a month or two to get there.
I remember when I played through BC, I'd always have some characters going through the leveling and one or two max level for raids, because going through the leveling was never boring.
we get it, you were 12 years old when vanilla came out so you think that it wasn't about the endgame because you were a stupid kid who only had time after school to do like 6 quests so it took you ages to hit level cap
when in reality the game was literally always designed around getting to max level then raiding
I haven't played Retail WoW in over a decade now, and everything I hear about it makes me angry.
I did briefly check Retail out when I first started playing Classic, though
>Log in to my old level 13 undead warlock >Immediately get bombarded with a bunch of flashy pop up screens congratulating me on hitting the lofty level of 13 >Get fed a bunch of abilities >Apparently, there aren't trainers anymore >There apparently aren't talent trees anymore either, now you just select a "tree" and the game feeds you abilities >Soulshards are gone, replaced with some bullshit counter in the corner of my screen >It also looks like class quests are gone too, since the game just hands me my voidwalker >The game then tries to push its bullshit in-game cash shop on me >Get curious about what's happening in Orgrimmar >Go to the zeppelin tower >There is no zeppelin >There's just a mage portal with some goblin making a quip about how the zeppelin is "down for maintenance" >Mage portal takes me directly to the center of Orgrimmar >Now its all this ugly iron shit, barely recognizable anymore >The place is deserted and no one is saying or doing anything >The few people that are there are just hovering in the air on their flying mounts >Log off >Uninstall
Most of what you described was changed in Cata/MoP. A shitload of the, for lack of a better term, SOVL in the game was removed in those two expacs.
That's one of the issues with retail, is that over the years they have just streamlined it more and more and more to the point where it's barely even an RPG anymore, it's closer to a 3rd person loot shooter with some very very light RPG aspects to it. It's not an MMO, and it's barely an RPG.
You must be on a dead server, anon. Org is always pretty crowded.
Low levels still barely have any abilities, but it's significantly more than classic ie - you don't have to cast only shadowbolt for 15 levels.
Org is dead af on most 'full' retail servers aside from the megaservers like Illidan and Area 52. There's no reason to be there when Valdrakken has everything
>Low levels still barely have any abilities, but it's significantly more than classic ie - you don't have to cast only shadowbolt for 15 levels.
Everything I've heard about Retail warlock gameplay is that you're still just spamming shadowbolts, but instead of shadowbolt spam taking 1 button, it takes like 15, where you have to push your buttons in a particular sequence while juggling cooldowns to get optimum damage output. Which, at the end of the day, is still just spamming attacks, even if its a game-ified attack spam.
And, meanwhile, they've basically stripped out most of the warlock's actual mechanics that aren't related to attack spams. The removal of soulshards comes to mind.
>Soulshards are gone from the inventory and part of your resource system.
Which means they've been effectively stripped out of the game. >Intelligent use of soulshards is core gameplay for an effective lock.
Which means little when they're little more than "power up points" now that you get for doing certain abilities rather than the souls you've reaped from your enemies and put in your pocket, and they're used for little more than just "do more damage" abilities.
>There are talent builds to have fewer buttons in your rotation but it'll never just be 1-button spam like vanilla lol.
My issue isn't the number of buttons in the attack spams, and more the fact that the gameplay revolves entirely around attack spams.
If you're not casting attacks, what are you casting exactly?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Health management, mana management, threat management, crowd controls, debuffs, using your pets in some unique way like a potential voidwalker off-tank, so on and so forth. There's a whole world of things you can do other than just attack spam.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>health management
life drain, health stones? retail lock still has those >mana management
lifetap lol >crowd control, debuffs
yes still there too >using a pet as an offtake
you can do that in basic dungeons yes just like in classic
you genuinely seem like you have no idea what you're talking about
7 months ago
Anonymous
I haven't seen anything to suggest that you actually do anything other than attack spams or that things like mana management or crowd control is even a thing anymore.
Every instance that I have seen has been people aggroing trash stacks and AoEing them down.
void walker cant tank anything even slightly relevant
It's an area that could use improvement. A direction Blizzard decided not to take with Retail.
Even if the dungeon experience in Retail was amazing, and by all evidence I have ever seen, this is not the case, it's all still wrapped up inside the stinking pile of garbage that is Retail.
It has the problem of all modern MMOs. It's basically Darktide if you had to spend 80 hours killing shitty zombies to even be allowed on the Mourningstar, where you were then hit with a bunch of FOMO shit that tried to keep you playing every day, cash shop pay to win crap and a public matchmaking system that pretty much ensured you got the same parties every time.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I haven't seen anything to suggest that you actually do anything other than attack spamsI haven't seen anything to suggest that you actually do anything other than attack spams
youre actually moronic and ESL, have a nice day
7 months ago
Anonymous
Literally every video I have ever seen of Retail gameplay has just been attack spams and every discussion of Retail content I have ever seen has only mentioned attack spams. All the complexity seems to come from outside gimmick mechanics special to the specific encounter, not with general mechanics or class mechanics.
7 months ago
Anonymous
in actual endgame content yes you do need to cc a lot of shit. interrupts, stuns, blinds, incapacitates, polymorphs etc
they are very important in m+ dungeons and a lot of raid fights will have adds that need to be kept in check with cc of some variety while it gets killed
7 months ago
Anonymous
I saw videos of people doing M+ runs, M+ speedruns even, and they were just doing AoE spams.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>watch video >dont understand whats happening >"yeah its just mindless aoe lol ez"
come on man. i could watch a raid from classic to wotlk and go "wtf its just casting frostbolt lol ez"
m+ has affixes that spawn adds that need to be cc'd within 4 seconds of spawning or else you wipe. thats on top of dealing with whatever normal dungeon mechanics there are. you have to use A LOT more stuns and cc in m+ than you needed to back in the day
7 months ago
Anonymous
you are literally fricking moronic, one of the complains a lot of people have is the amount of bullshit you have to deal with in m+ or you straight up wipe in a single pull >but this guy with ilvl448 and 1000 played this season alone was doing a +20 with no issues
moron
7 months ago
Anonymous
void walker cant tank anything even slightly relevant
>and more the fact that the gameplay revolves entirely around attack spams.
dumb Black person
theres more mechanics on single mobs in a dungeon in retail than all of Molten Core, players are doing 100 more things than spamming attacks
7 months ago
Anonymous
>players are doing 100 more things than spamming attacks
And none of those things, apparently, have anything to do with your class.
Vanilla warlock is not 1 button spam, have you ever played one? Warlock levelling involves keeping up 3-4 dots, fear, drain life, drain soul, death coil, pet management. It's probably one of the more interesting classes to level
it's one button spam in raids, affliction isn't allowed due to debuff limits and demo isn't competitive at all compared to destro, which is shadowbolt spam
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ok great, the vast majority of the game for most people is levelling not completing raids from 2005
7 months ago
Anonymous
>majority of the game for most people is levelling
false
>Warlock levelling involves keeping up 3-4 dots, fear, drain life, drain soul, death coil, pet management.
nah
i leveled a warlock and killed rag within 2 weeks of classics launch. it wasnt mana efficient to cast dots while leveling. shadowbolt did more damage per mana spent, and did the damage quicker. i would only multidot in dungeons until i learned hellfire.
at that point i joined zoomer spellcleave groups with 3 frost mages, 1 priest, and a warlock (me). warlock summons eye of kilrog, priest shields eye, eyeball facepulls 10 trillion mobs, frost mages slow/root mobs, warlock hellfires
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I minmaxed my warlock levelling gameplay to be slightly more mana efficient by not using most of the spells provided
this is why people hate the modern classic community
7 months ago
Anonymous
maybe the game shouldnt have been designed like shit where mana is a limiting resource and some spells are overcosted?
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's more the cancerous efficiency mindset where everything is spreadsheeted and dots are determined as inefficient, despite being only marginally more expensive than shadowbolt spam. The whole thing is so autistic, the entire spirit of the game is lost. I guess you truly never can go back
7 months ago
Anonymous
>despite being only marginally more expensive than shadowbolt spam
no, it was DRASTICALLY more expensive and slower than shadowbolt spam. thats why I spammed shadowbolt. it was MUCH more effecient. this wasnt some 1% minmax nerd shit difference, it was a difference between going oom after killing a single guy and never going oom ever
I did lie though, I still used rank 1 drail soul with the talent that proc'd out of combat regen for 10 seconds if you killed something while channeling drain soul. again, had to calculate that rank 1 drain soul was the mathematically most effecient thing to use (instead of rank 6 or w/e) because it cost more mana than youd regain
classic was filled with dumbass numbers
7 months ago
Anonymous
You're supposed to pull 2 mobs and let the dots kill one while you life drain the other.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>youre supposed to kill the mobs with the button that does no damage
?????????
7 months ago
Anonymous
>life drain >does no damage
wat
you dot 2 mobs, life tap, then drain one. once you get dark pact you have infinite mana.
7 months ago
Anonymous
life drains damage sucks you moron
if youre fighting 2 mobs at once youre fear juggling, not sitting there channeling life drain
7 months ago
Anonymous
this is basic shit that literally every leveling guide tells you, you were just playing suboptimally the entire time. you never run out of health and mana with life drain+life tap, you should never need to stop to eat/drink
7 months ago
Anonymous
>everything is spreadsheeted
literally just look at the tooltip and see whats doing more damage for the mana >despite being only marginally more expensive than shadowbolt spam
which just means blizzard couldnt do basic math back in 2004 >The whole thing is so autistic, the entire spirit of the game is lost
You can find posts from 2004-2006 of people looking at weapons with different swing speeds to see what was optimal. How the frick do you play the game without even comparing if a button is good or not, just slam random binds on your keyboard?
7 months ago
Anonymous
the alternative was >use all spells >go oom after killing 1 guy >sit and drink water for 20 seconds
i resorted to calculating damage per mana spent because of how boring it is to sit there doing nothing. its the games problem, not a community problem. maybe it was fun and engaging to sit doing nothing for 20 seconds when you were 12 years old in 2004 but thats awful in modern times
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
how did it go so wrong bros
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Vanilla Wow: Everyone is a moron, no one has a system to run the game at a stable fps, the internet is shit, and everyone loved it >Classic WoW: Everyone min-maxes every single aspect of their character, everyone runs on 120 fps, the internet has unlimited resources telling you where to go and what to do, and everyone is miserable
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ignorance was always bliss. When everyone is engaged into minmaxing, that's when games stop being fun and just starts becoming a chore or into a second job.
i cant fathom how people enjoy the keyboard ddr shit, combat has always been the worst part of wow but it's just a shitty bandaid that turns mindlessly spamming 2 buttons into mindlessly spamming 8 buttons.
>mindfully spamming 8 buttons >if I mess up I lose dps >there's a timer ticking so losing dps is a bad thing >just enough mechanics going on to take my focus away from my 8 buttons that I'm going to mess up eventually
I fail to see the problem
7 months ago
Anonymous
the problem is that it's fricking boring
7 months ago
Anonymous
The problem is that threat was a more interesting and engaging mechanic than DPS race.
7 months ago
Anonymous
threat is literally the worst mechanic created
its a shitty gear check on your tank and the counterplay to threat is to just stop playing the game
7 months ago
Anonymous
Everything is a gear check on the tank, the tank is literally "gear check - the role." That said, threat really wasn't that much of a gear dependent mechanic, with tanks that even had subpar weapons being able to reliably hold aggro after 3 sunders on their target.
And, yes, the gameplay around threat became less about mashing buttons and more about when you hit your buttons.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>with tanks that even had subpar weapons being able to reliably hold aggro after 3 sunders on their target
yeah you dont know what youre talking about at all. What kind of boomerism is this? DPS can still rip off tanks with a lucky crit chain even when geared
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, back in the days you'd need to keep an eye on your DPS and aggro count be randomly pulled off the tank, but that's why they had abilities like taunt. Generally speaking, though, tanks could hold fairly reliable aggro once they had three sunders down.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>well you see things were different when people didn't know what the frick they were doing
yeah no shit, everyone knows that, but we've had 20 years of practice so nobody plays like that anymore.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Well, also people don't play like that anymore because threat has essentially been removed as a mechanic. Even in Classic, they've tweaked tanks somehow to be threat generating machines and pulling aggro is now pretty rare no matter how hard you attack spam.
7 months ago
Anonymous
nobody plays like that because people back then were keyboard turning morons playing at 15 fps with 100 ping. sunder is fricking garbage, it doesn't even scale with gear so you'll get to a point where pressing it doesn't even matter.
7 months ago
Anonymous
People were bad back then, but people are bad now. People still do moron shit in Classic, but it just matters less now because the #1 cause of party wipes in Vanilla, mobs getting pulled off the tank and attacking the party, happens much, much more seldomly because Blizzard clearly tuned up threat generation.
7 months ago
Anonymous
and you think that blizzard did this and nobody noticed despite autists knowing every single number and mechanic in the game. this huge major mechanic was changed and the autists just glossed over it. this is an easier explanation for you than "people get better at a video game after 20 years"?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Basically, yes. Threat generation isn't something publicly displayed, and the autists don't actually get to look behind the hood.
What I know, is that I saw the same moron shit from players that I saw in Vanilla that would have caused them to pull aggro, but they didn't pull aggro. Hunters just laying into the DPS immediately and not pulling a damned thing. That was the reason everyone called them "huntards" back in the day, but huntard behavior magically works and doesn't cause issues all of a sudden in Classic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
why are you so confident about something you've done 0 research about. why are you so absolutely certain about this thing that you have no knowledge of
7 months ago
Anonymous
Probably personal experience. Why are you?
7 months ago
Anonymous
i get that you played vanilla when you were 12 years old but that doesn't make you more knowledgeable than people who have spent 20 years solving the game
7 months ago
Anonymous
You didn't answer my question.
What makes YOU "so confident about something you've done 0 research about?"
Why are YOU "so absolutely certain about this thing that you have no knowledge of?"
7 months ago
Anonymous
If you know what you're talking about, then prove it. i want you to go to the vanilla warrior discord full of the biggest autists on the planet and tell them that they're fricking morons who are wrong about everything and you know how the game really works. make sure to include screencaps
7 months ago
Anonymous
>If you know what you're talking about, then prove it.
You first, bud. What reason is there to think that threat wasn't messed with other than "autists are omniscient?"
7 months ago
Anonymous
>n-no you
Why are you so afraid to do this? If you're so right then what's the problem?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not going to go argue with some dipshits on Discord because some butthole on Ganker told me they were the authority on all game mechanics because they're all supposedly "autists."
Even the people who made the many private Vanilla servers had a struggle to re-create the Vanilla experience because of the ambiguity of these background mechanics, but "autists" are going to know exactly how threat worked 20 years ago and be able to compare it to modern Classic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Are you afraid of getting called moronic by a discord of autists?
7 months ago
Anonymous
No, I just don't want to go on Discord at all, especially not to go argue with strangers over anything. Especially not if I have not been given compelling evidence that these strangers have anything valuable to say.
7 months ago
Anonymous
do you want me to just link you all of the theory crafting and datamining or are you just gonna say "nu-uh"
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, go ahead.
7 months ago
Anonymous
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/threat-overview-classic-wow#threat-modifier-abilities-and-values-warrior
warriors back in vanilla didn't even spec or gear correctly, they just went full prot and used mitigation gear despite it being unnecessary most of the time. how many of these tanks even tried to get hit capped? i have no idea why you believe that 12 year olds in 2004 were playing optimally instead of just throwing whatever shit together.
7 months ago
Anonymous
That's literally just a list of threat generating abilities, buffs and items in Classic, not evidence that the internal mechanics of threat wasn't changed from Vanilla.
In fact, it points to Blizzard intentionally trying to obfuscate threat generation by removing the built-in threat handling and having people rely on add-ons.
7 months ago
Anonymous
They tweaked a lot more in classic than people realized
7 months ago
Anonymous
Threat is a neat idea that almost worked at first, but people figured out how to gear and spec for it. It eventually just became tanks building their character around generating so much threat that dps could just ignore it, and if your tank wasn't geared enough or didn't build their character around max threat at all costs then you'd be at a huge disadvantage.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, but the way you fix that wasn't by just getting rid of threat and making it all a DPS race.
They appreciate slower, more meaningful progression.
What's the point of being instantly blasted to max level and endgame in a day? You're going to instantly forget all of that when you start your mythic+ loot treadmill.
Meanwhile in classic, you need resist gear, attunements, and even simple fights can be quite punishing.
For me, BC was the peak, wrath a close second, legion a distant 3rd, and everything else fairly terrible.
Retail is passable though; mainly refinements to existing systems. It's just bland to play the same game you've played for a decade without it significantly changing.
To use a >Food Analogy
Classic is a well designefd burger
Retail is a burger with high quality buns and sauces but the meat is rancid
Retail has abandoned things like the leveling experience or the social aspect of an MMO and focused only on endgame content and getting your mythic key high
TBC was the best wow expansion ever existed. Locations are very climatic and cool. Dungeons were nicely designed with climatic music. Raids and dungeons were also nicely designed. And Karahzan was the best raid in history of wow, the design of environment and music there make a divine combination.
Wotlk is second best expansion. It finally concludes the story from warcraft 3. Lore was fine, dungeons were fine, and Ulduar was fricking awesome, second best raid in history of wow. Also the final battle with lich king on top of icecrown citadel was trully a cool final battle.
This aoe shit started at like end of wotlk like since ICC was introduced.
In Ulduar pulling entire room of trashmobs and AOE was still a very bad idea.
And Wotlk Lore was not trash, unless you never played warcraft 3 FT
>And Wotlk Lore was not trash, unless you never played warcraft 3 FT
Ner'zhul was the Lich King, not Arthas.
Arthas had his soul stolen by Frostmorne, he's just a meat puppet with a vestige of Arthas's personality left behind. This is the whole reason why he started serving the Lich King and destroyed Lordaeron.
The Lich King "Arthas" of WotLK acts more like Doctor Claw from Professor Gadget than Arthas. He doesn't even behave like Ner'zhul.
Arthas has no reason to want to be the Lich King in the first place, whereas Ner'zhul had many motivations and some big bones to pick with the major factions. Making Arthas the Lich King made for a directionless Lich King and it showed. Undead Arthas was just the wienery king of banter, and never worked as the main villain.
my problem with wrath was that the leveling was fricking garbage, it was trash compared to vanilla and BC, but outside of that and the (mostly) lackluster raids I really liked it as an expansion
no fricking content islands. thats what i fricking despise about every single expansion. youre no longer in the world of warcraft anymore. you just hang out on current content island until next content island is "revealed in fog" or whatever gay shit they come up with for why we couldn't go there before. its gay. i miss kalimdor and the eastern kingdoms and i miss just running, as in, truly RUNNING with your legs around with your buddy in the barrens and shit. also obviously all the lgbt gay shit in the game, but thats a given critique that has been given 100x times and blizzard still will not remove them. and still no playable ogres
I'm a huge casual who's been playing wow casually since tbc as a kid. I liked playing classic because it felt like a simple adventure with a great sense of scale and danger. The dungeons also felt a lot more epic, it better invokes classic fantasy.
I tried playing some Shadowlands one time and it felt like over designed nonsense to me. The quests and dungeons felt really meaningless to me, and I hated the overly railroaded and pretentious story. It was, simply put, extremely gay.
classic was made by a bunch of DnD nerds wanting to make a fun world for themselves and other to play and have fun in meanwhile retail is made for MDI/MLG and the players second. >raiding is for MLG/MDI not the players >M+ is for MLG/MDI not the players >arena is for MLG/MDI not the players >class balance is for arena
They even went as far as to remove amazingly fun aspects of the game because it doesn't fit with the MLG/MDI model. An example is Legion Hunter pet spec change, during SL & DF in the hunter beta forums it was the number one requested ability to bring back but was denied everytime because the pet would enter the arena in a "random" spec and in MLG/MDI random things cannot occur.
MDI means mythic dungeon invitational you moronic Black person, so raiding and arena is obviously not for the MDI. Youre actually just spamming buzzwords because youre a moron
All of that content is for the players, which is why there are millions of keys run every season even above the reward cutoff and thousands of non-sponsored guilds clearing mythic raids
Hunter pets were changed so that species wasnt just a cosmetic feature. If you put even 2 seconds of thought into it (which is more than youre capable of) you would realize that a pet talent is no more random than player talents which they only added MORE of to PvP from legion onward
His point is that endgame content is tuned according to the feedback of RWF and MDI shitheads, not casual players who make up 99% of the playerbase which is completely accurate. The retail endgame is a degenerate sweatfest that forgot why the game was ever popular and is rapidly losing players in DF, as the M+ and raiding population sinks lower than the lowest point in Shadowlands as of 10.1.5
>endgame content is tuned around the people who engage with it >this is a bad thing because
7 months ago
Anonymous
Designing a game around 0.1% of the playerbase is insane and exactly what killed Wildstar. The fact that Mike Ybarra recently said you're not entitled to comment on the game unless you have cleared Mythic raids indicates the brainrot goes right to the top.
7 months ago
Anonymous
contrary to what you believe, retail WoW's endgame is extremely lax. low end mythic dungeons are faceroll tier as is LFR and normal difficulty raids. you lose out on literally nothing by not engaging with mythic +20s or mythic difficulty raids other than gear that makes number go higher, or alternate colors of gear for your fashion
you can even get your cool tier armor without engaging in raiding nowadays
7 months ago
Anonymous
>retail WoW's endgame is extremely lax
it is not and you're just lying at this point. I get that you're doing +25 keys and are completely detached from the average player and probably think you're correct
7 months ago
Anonymous
bro half the raid can be AFK in LFR and you can still get your clear and shiny loot. you have no idea what you're talking about and probably haven't even played the game since TBC
7 months ago
Anonymous
LFR has no mechanics and is basically just tourist mode. I have an active sub now you gigantic moron. The game is a M+ simulator, no other endgame content is relevant or populated
7 months ago
Anonymous
LFR is endgame. thats like saying 10man normal togc isnt endgame. its just the easiest of 4 difficulty modes.
for some bizarre reason, people think anything less than mythic raids and m+25s is irrelevant content
7 months ago
Anonymous
10 man normal togc actually has mechanics you need to do, not many, but they're there. LFR is so forgiving you can go afk and it doesn't matter. The fact that you think they're equivalent shows you don't do any of this content and just think the casuals can sit over in the corner and eat their slop and are ignoring casuals are the lifeblood of the game and subsidize development of all the high-end content
7 months ago
Anonymous
ok, lets go back a few replies >Designing a game around 0.1% of the playerbase is insane
WoW's endgame is extremely lax >it is not and you're just lying at this point.
but then... >LFR is so forgiving you can go afk and it doesn't matter.
I accept your concession. wows endgame is so lax that you can go afk and it doesnt matter. your words
I dont know why you classicBlack folk just decide to skip lfr, normal and heroic. those are not designed for the 0.1% and are pretty lax. you still have to do mechanics in them. go have fun and play those if you hate 0.1% mythic raids.
7 months ago
Anonymous
People are looking for a moderate challenge just not an insane challenge, just like classic provided and retail largely does not, it's a very simple argument and you're not getting it due to retail brainrot
7 months ago
Anonymous
classic does not provide a challenge whatsoever
Retail has a full scale of difficulties, youre just lying about it not having a moderate challenge
7 months ago
Anonymous
>People are looking for a moderate challenge just not an insane challenge
good thing there are four difficulties of each raid tier and 30 difficulties of each dungeon so people can engage with whatever difficulties they want
7 months ago
Anonymous
you're asking for tourist modes for casual players which is everything below heroic raid and mythic+ dungeons
even morons who can't follow flashing buttons can clear heroics
there is no content you are missing out on in the game by choosing not to engage with mythic raids or clearing high level keys
nothing
nada
zilch
So quest designed to be rushed through to get to max level and?
faction rep stuff
whatever the latest side zone is
gear catch-up activities like time warps or the new emerald dream shit
crafting/gathering
timewalking
rated or casual pvp
mountsmogcheevos
pet battles
fricking whatever other systems WoW has to engage with its 99% casual playerbase
just because you refuse to interact with them doesn't mean they don't exist. you're not happy with the high end players having high end content and you're not happy with the low and mid end content which is virtually identical but with smaller numbers so what do you want
7 months ago
Anonymous
>you're not happy with the high end players having high end content
No if they are happy I am fine. I am just not one of them so I left the game made exclusively made for them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
you clearly don't do any of the content you're talking about otherwise you'd realize how hollow it is and how absolutely not worth a fricking monthly sub fee it is to play PVP of all things, that is completely abandoned and hasn't had a new bg since BFA, and those were remasters of old bgs. Can you imagine paying $180 a year for a game mode that is straight up ignored by the PVE devs running the game?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I know plenty of people who's main activity in this game is pvp
I know people who do weekly heroics for welfare raid loot and then go do pet battles
I know people who push +25s and are some of the best players of their spec in NA
what are you actually asking for? if casuals want an easy mode version of the endgame it already exists. if you're asking for it to be more in depth and difficult then guess what it exists in the form of higher difficulties.
again, tell me what you think you are missing out on in the game by choosing to not do +25s and mythic raids because I keep asking you and you just keep jerking off saying that the hard stuff should be made easier when the easy version ALREADY EXISTS
7 months ago
Anonymous
Look how angry you are at someone just not liking raids
that is exactly the point
you are the wow audience. You are SEETHING furiously at someone just not liking one part of the content and moving on to other games instead
WoW is only for people like you who only like raiding. It is more obvious than ever reading your posts.
Calm down man
7 months ago
Anonymous
>dodges the question
you got blown out and now youre trying to save face, but its not working
This schizo drew this moronic image [...] hoping it will become a new meme, then got really angry and defensive once he realized nobody else thinks like him. Very funny situation.
that image has been floating around for years newbie
7 months ago
Anonymous
I am not even that anon so the question wasn't pointed at me. But look at how much hatred you have for people who want to do anything but raiding
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I know plenty of people who's main activity in this game is pvp
You would have to be insane to pay $180/year for the absolute shit that is served up as pvp nowadays. At the end of SL, one of the devs admitted there is nobody working on pvp any longer. There are no new maps, no balancing. Even playing COD for PVP would be more respectable this point, they at least release new content on a regular cadence
7 months ago
Anonymous
you know what? I fricking agree
I tell them to pick up a real competitive game or something but they just enjoy killing people in a single gcd and insist that relying on their add-ons that feed them data about every single cooldown someone has used or what they are being targeted with is skillful
7 months ago
Anonymous
it's some kind of self-hating masochism to pay $180 a year to play a mode that the devs have all but officially abandoned and hasn't received new content since 2018
7 months ago
Anonymous
>add-ons that feed them data about every single cooldown
this shit
every time I see an arena stream they have addons yelling BWOOP BWOOP YOU'RE ABOUT TO GET YOUR DICK SMASHED BY SOME DUDE OFF SCREEN USE A DEFENSIVE or BWOOP BWOOP THIS GUY HAS NO DEFENSIVE KILL HIM NOW
how is that not tantamount to cheating, you'd have no way of knowing that information normally
7 months ago
Anonymous
Even the devs have noted (multiple times) that addons are increasingly becoming a bigger and bigger issue, but they're not brave enough to just pull the trigger. If they did that, the vast majority of players would be at step 1 all over again. They'd have to learn mechanics, timing, positioning ect. It needs to happen though. Mods have always been around, even in Vanilla and TBC, but now their functionality is so advanced and intrusive, you way as well be cheating.
7 months ago
Anonymous
addons are literally weaker now than before, this is a made up scenario that has no basis in reality
7 months ago
Anonymous
addons are just an excuse for bad players. the same top pvp players competed with and without add ons when it came to tournaments that disallowed them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I think it's important to note that WoW has chased off most of it's generalized "casual" players many years ago. That's why people get so upset when you bring up things like that. The only people that play retail WoW now are your SUPER casual players that just want to pet battle and talk in guild chat, and then the sweaty M+ spreadsheet types. They feel like you're attacking them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
yeah I figured there's some messed up psychology going on here. 'Casual' content is so dumb, you could sleepwalk through it. But anything higher than that immediately becomes sweatfest autism. There's a middle missing and I gather those people just quietly dipped out of the game years ago and you will never hear from the again. The only groups for normal raids I see now are AOTC required (sweatlord gatekept groups) or paid carry groups. There's no intermediate players completing content like there used to be.
7 months ago
Anonymous
AotC is not sweaty, youre just really dogshit at the game so anything above licking windows seems hardcore to you
7 months ago
Anonymous
>AotC is not sweaty
You actually are so divorced from the average player and trapped inside your own sweat bubble, you can't be reasoned with
7 months ago
Anonymous
you are inconceivably bad at the game
just learn to hit your buttons instead of crying on the internet
Wowhead says 31% of players have attained Ashes of Al'ar, you are actually moronic if you believe these numbers
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ashes has been trivial to farm for over 10 years now, yes many people have it
7 months ago
Anonymous
You’re saying 31% of players automatically reran tempest keep for years until they got a 0.1% drop rate mount. Yeah no
7 months ago
Anonymous
its a 1% drop you moron, and yes many players farm mounts moron
7 months ago
Anonymous
31% of players who are currently subbed have ashes of alar, yeah. if you are currently subbed you are an autistic moron so its highly likely that you did do that
7 months ago
Anonymous
Wowhead shows linked profile percentages not all player profile percentages, so it’s easy to believe anyone autistic enough to link their profile with wowhead is probably also a mountsmogscheevos sperg but not representative of the broader player base
7 months ago
Anonymous
Data for Azeroth goes by armory and comes in at 23% for Ashes
the mount is incredibly common
7 months ago
Anonymous
according to raider.io, 12,600 guilds have aotc
https://raider.io/aberrus-the-shadowed-crucible/boss-rankings/scalecommander-sarkareth/world/heroic/623#content
guild kills require 10-30 people
if 5-7% of wows population has aotc, wow has 4-5 million subscribers
if 31% of wows population has aotc, wow 1 million subscribers
which do you think is more likely
7 months ago
Anonymous
I guess the game is just massively weighted towards high-end players nowadays and mid core players are basically extinct
7 months ago
Anonymous
mid core players swapped to classic and classic HC.
7 months ago
Anonymous
classic is literally braindead baby mode
No midcore player is going to tolerate molten chore
7 months ago
Anonymous
that's why they play HC bozo, it's the ease of classic but with actual consequences for dying
7 months ago
Anonymous
He’s talking about wrath classic dumbass
7 months ago
Anonymous
Im midcore and did that, I just haven’t heard anyone else doing it but it’s clear that others did too based on aotc stats
7 months ago
Anonymous
aotc is midcore nowadays because of m+. m+ is easier than mythic raiding but gives the same ilvl rewards. midcore players can slowly gear up with weekly vault m+ loot and wear full mythic raid gear while progging heroic
7 months ago
Anonymous
Then what kind of things do you suggest they add?
7 months ago
Anonymous
The endgame is screaming out for relevant dungeons that aren't gatekept by spergs and have no timer. The solution would be solo queue M+ with timer removed. There's dozens of threads about this on the official forums for years now but nobody at Blizzard cares. Esports wins over all
7 months ago
Anonymous
>give me easy mode freebies
no shitter
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's not even about freebies, it's about how long it takes to get a group through the LFD tool, and then the group instantly falls apart if you wipe even once. It's just a massive waste of time, who would play this shit in 2023?
I mean I'm sure most are aware of this at this point, but Ion quite literally came from Icy Veins. It's clear that his vision of the game was what it currently is, all along. I mean good on him, he has managed to chip away basically every single fun aspect of the game and turned it into spreadsheet material.
He's a massive math nerd and sees the game as a math problem to be optimized. I'm not sure he ever actually enjoyed the gameplay outside the theorycrafting side, because anyone that did would never make the decisions he has made. I wish they would take Tom Chilton off making gacha games and replace Ion as game director, at least the guy understands fun. Ion has had 8 years as game director to prove he absolutely does not.
>retail raids have 3 easy difficulties, 1 hard difficulty >"OMG ALL RAIDS ARE MADE FOR MLG ELITE PLAYERS!!!" >wotlk classic raids have 4 difficulties, all of them are so easy that everybody ignores the first 3 difficulties >"this is good game design i approve of this!"
>dungeons have normal, heroic, mythic, then 20 more progressively difficult variants >"OMG ALL DUNGEONS ARE MADE FOR MLG ELITE PLAYERS!!!!!" >classic wotlk adds extra non-classic difficulty modes for dungeons that are still so easy everyone can beat them >"this is good game design i approve of this!"
>retail arena is fighting other players >"OMG ALL PLAYERS IN ARENA ARE MLG ELITE PLAYERS!!!" >classic wotlk arena is fighting other players >"this is good game design i approve of this!"
i unironically dont get it
are wow players just crybabies? if they cant beat the hardest content they think its bad design
this but unironically. minmaxers and wannabe esport gays are cancer of gaming community. stop using activities that are made for having fun as your personal sublimation of real life achievements. Black person
You've posted this twice in this thread now probably thinking you're really clever and it's not an argument
7 months ago
Anonymous
Project more moron
7 months ago
Anonymous
you only have meme answers? do you repeat them when you run out?
You're crying because the vast majority of people want nothing to do with you in a video game because you act like a sperging moron.
You're now crying on an anime image board about how someone pointed this out.
You are the child and cry baby. So yes you're projecting homosexual. >Imb4 more seething
7 months ago
Anonymous
playing games casually is good, playing games as a minmaxer wannabe esport homosexual is not. vast majority of people are casuals and they hate people like you who always start raging and crying the moment anything goes not like in their youtube tutorial videos. you didn't point out anything except your fantasies because you are an outsider who has to defend your opinion from everyone else. you are alone. nobody likes you. you are a homosexual and a moron
7 months ago
Anonymous
This schizo drew this moronic image [...] hoping it will become a new meme, then got really angry and defensive once he realized nobody else thinks like him. Very funny situation.
See how you seethe? Proves i'm correct.
Get bent homosexual.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>made a terrible meme about how being a meta slave is actually cool and not a form of mental illness >nobody likes it >so upset you can't stop posting trying to hide your butthurt
7 months ago
Anonymous
>YOU MADE THE IMAGE! >Y-YOU'RE MY BOOGIEMAN!!!
What a homosexual. You're too young or reddit to be here.
7 months ago
Anonymous
but I don't seethe, or cry, or any other attempt to portray me saying that your opinion is moronic to be just an irrational emotional response. your opinion is objectively moronic and you can send as many meme replies with words "seethe", "cry" or "cope" as you want, it won't change reality where everyone shits on gays like you except other gays like you. I know it's very scary to accept this because your only source of dopamine is questionable tweaking of already solved decades old rpg, but literally everyone else thinks it's cringe
7 months ago
Anonymous
You're so mad. Not reading your seething book homosexual.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>not reading
ok this homosexual is done, bb
7 months ago
Anonymous
Cool didn't care when you started seething.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>zoom zoom with fried tiktok brains can't read 3 lines of text
lol
lmao even
7 months ago
Anonymous
>READ MY SEETHING TRASH!
No. Cry more.
7 months ago
Anonymous
lol seethe cope gay
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
cope
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
cope
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
seethe
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
copper
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
sneeze
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
sneed
7 months ago
Anonymous
This schizo drew this moronic image
>WoW thread ends up XIV crying or LE META BAD again
zzz
hoping it will become a new meme, then got really angry and defensive once he realized nobody else thinks like him. Very funny situation.
I never understood why wow was build entirely for the endgame raiders. Sure give them content but don't make that the only game that matters. Its a niche group. It is like building your game around speedrunners and then wondering why everyone else is leaving.
what content is designed solely for endgame raiders? one raid dungeon per tier? literally everything else in the game can be done casually as a solo player
There is no significant content for solo players in DF, they removed it all. World events are copy-pasted 5 minute events you're supposed to do repeatedly and are engaging for a day at absolute most
>There is no significant content for solo players in DF, they removed it all
what did they remove? when did wow ever have significant solo player content? in vanilla you leveled up and... that was it. in bc you had some rep dailies. thats all the content you got until like mop when they added the farm
7 months ago
Anonymous
Legion, BFA and SL all had pretty substantial gameplay loops to keep casuals engaged and all those are gone now because the sweaties didn't like them, so anyone that isn't doing +20 keys basically has nothing to do other than 'dreamsurges' which are fun for an hour at best before you realize how lazy it is
There is no such thing as a difficult MMORPG. Nothing in any version of WoW is difficult. It just takes time and having to deal with other people with mental deficiencies. Mechanically there are not many genres that are as easy.
I'll probably never play WoW again one way or another so I'm not sure it even matters, but one thing that really bothers me is how they've sanitized the game into just a blob of gray. The world, characters, story, none of it has any depth or intrigue anymore. And you'd think it would be the exact opposite with the 20 years it's had to develop itself. Sure it's a fantasy game, but none of it feels "real" anymore. There are no human stories.
Resubbed for a month for the first time since Warlords of Draenor
The retail feels exhausting because it's so heavily railroaded and storied that you feel like there is no sense of exploration or freedom; you just follow the quest markers from one node to the next. Also, they made it impossible to use the old character models and they de-souled the menus and interfaces by making them minimalist. There is tons of clutter and garbage everywhere. Game feels more like some chinese mmorpg than WoW.
>Play a little bit without your friends >Can no longer play with them because level difference fricks you both
Why did nobody copy level sync from ffxi?
If you're leveling alongside friends then just don't level without them if you don't want to get ahead. Play another character or just work on professions or something. Level scaling is shit.
To be fair WoW has always been like that for as long as it's existence. I was in my late teens when BC came out and a friend and I leveled multiple characters together. We'd basically have to schedule our lives around being able to play together.
clarity of creative vision.
artstyle, UI, class design, world design, NPC encounters, itemisation, etc are all working in tandem to create a simulation of a real world.
nowadays you have a ridiculously huge development studio all with conflicted priorities and no central vision.
>people still think Vanilla WoW was hard in Current Year
Dude the "no changes" crowd has literally full reversed course to beg Blizz for changes to make Classic even a little bit challenging. It was never hard. You and everyone else playing in 2006 were just bad.
You were playing the final stage nerfed bosses from 1.12, with talents and abilities players at the time never had and you wonder why the bosses were way easier than vanilla players said they were back in 2005? Are you stupid?
This myth still exists? Why do people bend over backwards to convince themselves that knowledge of the game never changed or improved over the course of 20 years? Playing at 60 fps with good internet, not clicking, and knowing how to gear and spec makes you better than 99.99% of the people who played in vanilla.
you have seen them back when classic came out and you chose to ignore them. You are going to do the same again
for you it has to be only knowledge that changed and nothing else ever
probably because you didn't play back then
7 months ago
Anonymous
Wait so you totally have proof, but you don't feel like posting it?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yes. I don't really give a shit anymore.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Just do a whole bunch of research and spoonfeed me patch notes that anyone playing at the time saw everything getting nerfed as each patch came out
look it up yourself obnoxious homosexual, were you even born when Vanilla was current content?
>im right i dont need an argument or proof i win the argument
why do you argue like children?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Its not an argument
That is exactly the problem
back in the day it used to be "I didn't know so can you show me how it was in vanilla"
but with you you are trying to win an argument
and you win as long as you don't accept any proof provided to you. And you are desperate to win
so there is no point. I could show you commentated gameplay from someone showing how much easier classic is than real vanilla and you would not accept it because you want to win an argument only you are having
7 months ago
Anonymous
long way of saying you made it up to cope with classic being braindead
Classic has better leveling, classes feel unique and the atmosphere of the world is unmatched.
However a lot of people just load up rested XP guide, wowhead their talent build and try to farm dungeons for exp if they can. I think Turtle WoW captures Vanilla better and HC Classic isn't bad either even if it's a bit pay2win.
yeah spamming frostbolt is totally different than spamming shadowbolt
7 months ago
Anonymous
I have never touched classic wow
I was one of the people strongly arguing against 1.12 nerfed shit and when it happened I said I wouldn't need to play classic
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah 1.12 isn't really Classic, as well as Blizzard adding their own "fixes" like removing front stab, "simulating" spell batching etc.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>i shouldnt NEED to prove that im not a delusional moron >why? i just fricking dont
wow great argument homosexualron you sure showed me.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Again we are not having an argument. Calm down. You win. Whatever you want to win I really don't care.
7 months ago
Anonymous
you sound like someone with npd. physically unable to admit that you're wrong about something
7 months ago
Anonymous
I am wrong about everything you want me to be wrong about
7 months ago
Anonymous
Why dont you just accept your wrong faster next time instead of wasting smarter people's time?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because I mistook you as someone who wanted information about how it truly was back then and not someone who just wanted to win an argument about something he never played
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Because I mistook you as someone who wanted information about how it truly was back then
then why have you avoided posting any such information, even when asked?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>then why have you avoided posting any such information
Because you used the word argument
Which was not what I was looking for and I really don't feel like going for even more than a minute to find a video for you to just ignore it
Its not an argument for me. I am not looking for an argument
7 months ago
Anonymous
this is the weakest scapegoat yet. Of course its an argument, any time 2 people disagree its an argument, you knew it was an argument and you knew that you didnt have proof, so now youre just trying to deflect
7 months ago
Anonymous
>. Of course its an argument
okay you win then. Argument over
Its not an argument for me.
When I ask someone about something I haven't played usually I try to get genuine information and not argue
7 months ago
Anonymous
>INTP sperge starts haywiring
7 months ago
Anonymous
hey you 2 Black folk arguing about if patch 1.12 made bosses easier: wowpedia has every patch note for every patch in the entire game. go pull up whatever patch nerfed the bosses
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.12.0
>I really don't feel like going for even more than a minute to find a video for you to just ignore it
so instead you felt like replying for an hour
lol
7 months ago
Anonymous
>so instead you felt like replying for an hour
Yes.
this is no effort.
I don't think I said bosses but okay
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I don't think I said bosses but okay
You were playing the final stage nerfed bosses from 1.12, with talents and abilities players at the time never had and you wonder why the bosses were way easier than vanilla players said they were back in 2005? Are you stupid?
>You were playing the final stage nerfed bosses from 1.12
your memory...has failed you....
...is it possible...that you were wrong....no....it cant be true....
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's more the dungeons got nerfed heaps overtime and classes/items got buffed.
Strath in 1.1 was like a heroic mode and by 1.12 it was normal.
7 months ago
Anonymous
based. Ganker could learn a lot from you. unironically
7 months ago
Anonymous
bro he's not wrong, he's a 200iq genius with a perfect memory so there's no way he just misremembered something from a video game. there's no reason in trying to prove himself correct either, the plebs simply can't comprehend his genius.
7 months ago
Anonymous
well to be fair you guys do know better having never played the game in the first place and going only by forum posts
that is more valid than memory
7 months ago
Anonymous
numbers are more valid than your nostalgia, yes.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not sure why this is even an argument, players gained enormous power just by talent changes from 1.1 to 1.12. The game is objectively significantly easier even if boss nerfs did not occur, which they did.
7 months ago
Anonymous
i did play the game
you refuse to believe me there's something wrong with your brain that can't be allowed to be incorrect about trivial shit like the difficulty of a 20 year old video game
7 months ago
Anonymous
>i did play the game
During vanilla was what I meant >you refuse to believe me there's something wrong with your brain that can't be allowed to be incorrect about trivial shit like the difficulty of a 20 year old video game
I didn't come to the conclusion
it was those videos of other people showing me direct comparisons that convinced me.
If you ask me I didn't know what I was doing in vanilla and never raided AQ and naxx
My information is not based on memory but based on people showing me the real comparison
7 months ago
Anonymous
>it was those videos of other people showing me direct comparisons that convinced me
You keep talking about this mythical video but for some reason you absolutely refused to post it. Weird.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Why would I post it. You are not going to watch it. It is an argument for you you are desperate to win
if I wanted to win an argument I would not watch any video that could disprove it
7 months ago
Anonymous
holy shit there really is something wrong with you. the fricking mental gymnastics are insane
hey you 2 Black folk arguing about if patch 1.12 made bosses easier: wowpedia has every patch note for every patch in the entire game. go pull up whatever patch nerfed the bosses
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.12.0
>I really don't feel like going for even more than a minute to find a video for you to just ignore it
so instead you felt like replying for an hour
lol
his argument is gonna be that all of these nerfs were undocumented. he genuinely cannot admit "yeah ok my bad i guess i didnt remember two decades ago 100% perfectly", there will always be some kind of excuse
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the fricking mental gymnastics are insane
Anon I just don't think you really care to see evidence.
The more you post the more I am convinced you don't care about anything that could prove you wrong and you already made up your mind. So there is no point
7 months ago
Anonymous
>guy keeps asking to see proof >YOU DONT REALLY WANT TO SEE IT
Im sure in your rotten little mind this somehow made sense, but to anyone with a functioning brain its obvious just how badly youre floundering
7 months ago
Anonymous
okay I am "floundering" that means you as the official argument judge judge him as the winner
Okay. I don't care. never was an argument for me.
The angrier you guys get the less I wanna post it.
Anyone arguing with me you officially won.
just post it anon, show him wrong, i believe in you
I can't prove him wrong. See I am floundering and only wasting time. The video I am currently rewatching in a different tab just doesn't exist.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>The video I am currently rewatching in a different tab just doesn't exist.
Correct, this is something you made up or you would have posted it already
7 months ago
Anonymous
Then post it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
you dont want to see it
7 months ago
Anonymous
Okay let me post it.
>The video I am currently rewatching in a different tab just doesn't exist.
Correct, this is something you made up or you would have posted it already
Sorry he just said it doesn't exist. Now I want to not post it again
It's more the dungeons got nerfed heaps overtime and classes/items got buffed.
Strath in 1.1 was like a heroic mode and by 1.12 it was normal.
Funny enough the guy in the video is using stratholme as an example. Especially trash there
7 months ago
Anonymous
is acting like a moron online for negative attention a fulfilling hobby? asking for a friend
7 months ago
Anonymous
now you are never going to see the video, hope you are happy
7 months ago
Anonymous
I can't see what never existed in the first place
7 months ago
Anonymous
See the thing is when you have the evidence directly in front of you, like I have the video. Every post saying it doesn't exist is automatically 100% wrong. They are confident it doesn't exist. And the more confident they are the more wrong I know they are. That is enough for me.
7 months ago
Anonymous
What video?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Some guy going through strat in vanilla and classic to show the difficulty difference
7 months ago
Anonymous
link?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I can't post it because that would be like losing because of earlier posts. Sorry. You seem like you just genuinely want to see it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
im the guy who brought up the wowpedia patch notes and i want to see your evidence
7 months ago
Anonymous
oh look, the 200iq genius has already determined the future, there's no need to post proof his claims because he's already seen into the future
7 months ago
Anonymous
just post it anon, show him wrong, i believe in you
7 months ago
Anonymous
no video exists or you would have posted it
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Just do a whole bunch of research and spoonfeed me patch notes that anyone playing at the time saw everything getting nerfed as each patch came out
look it up yourself obnoxious homosexual, were you even born when Vanilla was current content?
Are you actually not aware that talents and classes changed radically from 1.0 to 1.12 and old raid bosses were nerfed to the ground to get more people into Naxx (which failed dismally, only 1% of players ever reached it)?
>old raid bosses were nerfed to the ground to get more people into Naxx
Post proof. And no, "well you see when I was a teenager 20 years ago the game seemed harder" is not proof.
Less bloat
Easier/simpler gameplay (MMOs are best when they're easy, since if it's easy you can chat and socialize with people while playing, difficulty is the bane of fun in MMOs).
Better story/lore from back before it got ruined by stupid bullshit.
Classic has better leveling, classes feel unique and the atmosphere of the world is unmatched.
However a lot of people just load up rested XP guide, wowhead their talent build and try to farm dungeons for exp if they can. I think Turtle WoW captures Vanilla better and HC Classic isn't bad either even if it's a bit pay2win.
Classic is dying too right now, Wrath made as many bad changes as good ones and it's really burning people out. Plus once this content runs out the "Classic" era of WoW is over and the giant steaming turd of Cata rears it's ugly head again.
Though Blizzard won't even be a company in a few years so it hardly matters.
Retail wow looks like a pixar movie, the classes have been overhauled and redesigned so often that mist specs have become a schizophrenic mix of contradictory mechanics, and it exclusively caters to sweatlords and turbocasuals with ansolutely no in-between.
Meanwhile i plai WotLK classic, log in for a few hours a week to do togc 10 and 25 on a couple of characters, try to beat my previous parses, and log out until the next raid. No grindy obnoxious bullshit that expects me to log in every day and do chores.
Blizzard held on for about 10 years longer than they should have due to braindead brand loyalists but it's finally time to watch them close their doors in 2024. Either Activision absorbs the """talent""" or they straight up close them and cash in on the IPs however they can with more chinese mobile games.
>just 2 more weeks until [big company] collapses!
blizzard has enough whales keeping them alive. they dont make as much money as activison anymore but they still make enough money to not get closed down.
It's actually going to happen this time, they have zero new products in the works that will "save" them and everything recent has failed. D4 and retail WoW numbers are in the toilet, Overwatch 2 is genuinely dead by any metric and Classic has a hard timer on how long people will entertain it. Which is pretty much up until Icecrown Citadel.
I think that anon think D4 is a sub based game, it is true that the playerbase for D4 has deflated, but that doesn't mean the game didn't sell well initially. and as we all know, most sales for most games are made on the opening week.
Hey guys my dad works at blizzard and he said that you can get the ashbringer if you beat kel'thuzad 200 times in a row, I have it on my paladin too. No I can't show you because you wouldn't believe me.
The leveling experience in retail is aids and the writing is super aids. The writing in Vanilla was never impressive but it wasn't actively bad like the current stuff has been.
>Make the endgame autistically hard for regular players >Wonder why the only people playing are anti-social spergs who just want to keep making it harder
"Easier" difficulties that are still hard for regular players, yeah. Just because you have 1000 days /played and can do every dungeon blindfolded doesnt mean everyone else can.
Thats why your game is dying, you're exactly the type of person I was on about.
>Just because you have 1000 days /played and can do every dungeon blindfolded doesnt mean everyone else can
i started playing wow during the year long siege of orgrimmar patch. i beat garrosh on 25 normal, couldnt beat heroic until the wod prepatch. i probably had less than 10 days played lol. i didnt know what a parse was, didnt have a dps meter, had a guildie explain how to prepot, didnt know that red armor guy in your ui meant your armor was broken and you needed to repair, had an nvidia 3d vision driver bug that hid all damage numbers when i was below ground (so the entire 2nd half of the raid didnt have numbers show up when i got hit/healed/damaged a boss), and yet i was still competent enough to not be gkicked. all i did was look up a guide on icy veins on how to play ele shaman. my only other wow experience was playing a vanilla private server to level 30 with some friends, who all quit to go play retail and dragged me along
The end game of wow was never easier, addons do literally everything for you and every raid comes out with a blizzard official guide, back in the early years of wow there weren't guides or videos, people went in blind and had to figure shit out on the spot, they actually had to analyze the situation in real time without any tool (VERY limited damage breakdowns, no logs, no stream replays etc) addons were extremely limited and much less precise than they are now, there were no guides for classes, barely any healer knew about down ranking etc, in general all the resources management was much harder due to lack of tech.
Hey guys I just wanted to say that there is no video and I was wrong. I just didn't want to accept that I was wrong about raids not being easy back in the day. I hope you can forgive me.
oh that's weird because you said something different
Are you actually not aware that talents and classes changed radically from 1.0 to 1.12 and old raid bosses were nerfed to the ground to get more people into Naxx (which failed dismally, only 1% of players ever reached it)?
>WoW vets get tired of their game to shit and migrate to XIV >XIV goes to shit shortly after
Rather than accusing I'm just saying you all don't catch a break. Everything is getting fricking streamlined to death and major features ripped out to appeal to a newcomer percentile that don't actually appreciate or care that much.
because it is an actual mmorpg
i know, shocking revelation
can you elaborate this simple explanation to my question?
do they prefer quests?
movement?
geardesign?
raids?
nostalgia?
gameplay?
classes?
why should i? are you some kinda blizztroon employee? frick off, never going to pay a single cent since legion, private servers do classic better than whatever aids infested shit nu-blizz could come up with
Black person
>post on a discussion forum
>"frick no i'm not going to discuss anything? what are you, a shill?"
please leave this website and never come back
>discussion forum
the only one who needs to leave back to r3ddit is you, election tourist
You are trying too hard to fit in, anon
>hurr durr you want to talk about vidya on Ganker dont you know that this board is only for shitposting and baiting???!?
die Black person you fricking homosexual
if he was one of their employees what would it matter? they're never gonna change their present course
>he thinks blizzard gives a frick what their fanbase wants and doesnt just listen to twitter and their troon writers
KWAB
>since legion
WotLK is the maximum acceptable
Legion was great.
Name one thing about Legion that was good that wasn't M+ and suramar.
>pvp worst its ever been
>artifact grind makes dual spec shit
>legendary worst system ever created, complete rng
>raids all horrible outside of like 3 bosses in the final tier
>open world shit besides suramar, world quests bullshit
>balance horrible, drought of souls, unstable arcanocrystal, warlock, 7.0 ele shaman
>leveling story horrible, "Muh tyrande" butchered Malfurion
>open world patch shit heavily timegated and years worse then the shit bfa gave us
Legion gays are the dumbest WoW gamers, worse then DF babies.
Shaman was fun so it was a good expansion
You gotta remember that Legiongays only remember the last month of Legion when it was the prepatch and all the bad shit was mitigated.
Classic is more of an adventure, while Retail is just getting your gearscore higher to do the highest content, everything else is pointless”. Retail suffers from the “it gets good in 50 hours!” a lot of games have nowadays.
yes this is what i was thinking about as well
Classic has the whole game as one big journey while leveling in retail is just a roadbump until the actual game
Retail
>make account
>buy boost
>buy carries to get gear
>buy even more carries so you get the logs that make people wanna raid with you
>do the same thing with alts
>read the guides to check what and how to play
>watch hours of videos which can tell you what and how to play
>install all the 100+ essential plugins that all the raiders use
>are available when your group wants to raid
>do that every week
Classic:
>make character you want
>level
>have fun with others
Wow, i wonder why the frick retail is dying
except they sell boosts on classic now so what's your point
Leveling is literally the content for Classic
Anyone who boosts in classic has braindamage.
oh yeah thats definitely why 99% of classic server pops just raidlog then
What else do you wanna log? How fast you got to max level?
There are just tons of raidlogs cause lots of people play classic - and classic has raids. But raids have never been the main appeal for classic.
Because vanilla doesn't force you to log in every single day and do your daily chores
you can reach a point where you are "finished" with the game and have nothing else to do besides raid every week and do any PvP that you want to
that's exactly why I love it
>NOOOOOOO what about my heckin' engagement numberinos?
You can also farm gold.
If I had a criticism of WoW Classic, it doesn't have any real post-raid dungeons. After you've done the initial dungeons, you've effectively "graduated" from them and move on permanently to raids, and raids can only be done once a week, which leads to raid logging. The only other thing that can really be done at max level is farming gold or PvP.
If there is a Classic+, high tier, post-raid dungeons would be one of the things I would ask for.
They have Heroic+ dungeons in Wrath classic now, which is heroics adjusted to still be challenging for each tier of content and drops epics from the last tier raid from the final boss, so I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar show up in Classic+ if it ever materializes
I should clarify.
When I say I would want high tier dungeons, I mean I want original dungeon content that's meant for players who are also raiding. I did not mean that I want recycled dungeons I've already done a hundred times, but with the stats tuned up.
Retail has 'megadungeons' which fill this role. I doubt classic+ has the budget for this though, classic has always been the red headed stepchild of wow that the retail team resents for even existing
Aren't "megadungeons" just really big dungeons (by the standards of retail)?
They're long dungeons only available in mythic mode so tuned for geared players only, which meets your requirement about dungeons meant for players who are raiding
Well, that's neat. Shame its only in Retail, though.
The existing megadungeon is tuned to be challenging for mythic raiders or +15-20 key runners.
It will be nerfed in 1 month when 10.2 releases and turned into a mythic+ dungeon.
that's what mythic dungeons in retail are
>I was a shit carebear in vanilla that never made it past Razorgore
Ok buddy.
>>make account
>>buy boost
>>buy carries to get gear
>>buy even more carries so you get the logs that make people wanna raid with you
>>do the same thing with alts
>>read the guides to check what and how to play
hours of videos which can tell you what and how to play
all the 100+ essential plugins that all the raiders use
>>are available when your group wants to raid
>>do that every week
Yeah but in classic you cant do that right?
you Black folk are legit moronic
Oh wait in vanilla you could just buy a bot that could do everything for you, game was so much better
The thing is that you CAN boost in vanilla but doing so is dumb cause playing the game normally is whats appealing about it.
In retail you get forced to boost cause otherwise nobody will play with you. You need to buy carries to get logs in order to get into a decent guild that plays mythic. Of course you CAN get your discord buddies and real life friends and convince them to raid in WoW with you buy good luck with that kek.
me and one other buddy literally just started chatting with people in orgrimmar in the dragonflight prepatch and we formed a semi-casual guild with some good m+ pushers and we managed to carry our casual guild members to AOTC in raid so its not like it cant be done
Why would you skip the best part of the game lmao. Leveling is by far the best part of vanilla.
>buy even more carries so you get the logs that make people wanna raid with you
just how stupid are you anon
do you have any idea how logs work
Never use the internet again, vermin
The sense of exploration is way better on originals, the game does not hold your hand:
If you overpull you are completely fricked, meanwhile on retail even on leveling the game makes enemies a complete joke and only if you class is complete garbage in sustain you can probably die if you overpull.
It's mostly a open world, you have only loading screens to enter dungeons, raids and changing from Kalimdor from Eastern Kingdoms.
Raids were cool because they were obtuse and a good first time challenge and a cake walk to farming, on retail only if you are on the top 100 world you can farm and ultra overgeared you can farm with no problems.
Geardesign I will just say that armors were more simple, on retail they insist in doing tier sets that barely makes makes any sense design wise.
Gameplay was worst, but the sense of getting more powerful each level and with new gear piece is way better than retail.
Classes barely half of them don't work properly and are badly balanced but they are great, every class has his unique flavour not like on retail that every class balancing consists on making everything equal in DPS/HPS/Tankiness and nerfing/buffing utility, come on, playing as a Hunter lost all the magic the moment they took out the possibility of having access to at least one buff that your comp.
classic throws you into a world where going into a lake can sometimes mean encountering the fricking lockness monster, retail holds your hand every second to make sure baby doesn't fall down
you feel like a small part of a massive world in classic, in retail you're the eternal champion sent from heaven to defeat the enemy
from music to settings to combat (simplicity over needing to know every cooldown and added ability) to characters to story, classic is objectively better
No daily chores. Vanilla is a game that you play as much or as little as you’d like to.
In Classic, you are a character existing in a world that operates independently of you.
In Retail, you are riding a themepark ride.
The first is conducive to organic social interaction.
The second is not. Structured social interaction is not the same as setting people loose.
Social interaction is the reason why you play an MMORPG, as opposed to the huge selection of other games to choose from.
It's that fricking simple, idiots.
Classic is a world you explore and live in.
Retail is a videogame where you grind daily "progression" systems.
All of the above
Retail is obsessed with esports and ratings and the entire endgame is gatekept by sweatlord cretins whose only accomplishment in life is getting AOTC. The community is by far the biggest problem with retail and they refuse to do anything about it. In fact they handed the community the tools to gatekeep even harder by integrating r.io rating directly into the game client. I no longer believe they're interested in solving it, because the game director is one of these sweatlord cretins himself and sees no issue.
Better classes.
Everyone and everything in retail is just rogue. Classic wow has very clear difference between classes and design philosophy behind them.
Better combat.
Actual numbers of damage and HP instead of scaling % of a %. Skill actually make a difference even in PVE, combat encounters are not just stat check.
Better open world.
It's not scaling with your level so you can always return to content that was too hard for you in the beginning and solo it while feeling real progress of your character. The treasures and rare drops are not just transmogs but actually very valuable finds that will stay on you for a long time, not 20 minutes.
Better experience for new players. Game is just easier to understand overall.
Better community and social interactions experience.
Better experience overall because when a game is not calculated to be the most optimal esport and "quality of life" goyslop ever, it can often times create unique interactions with the world and other players. I have hundreds adventure stories about meeting weird and interesting people, or fighting with horde in hillsbrad whole night, or making it through stratholme with randoms, or sneaking into horde zones to do dungeons, or finding creative ways to deal with difficult quest.
DO YOUR OWN WORK ION
It's all of those things to some degree. But also, what's really, REALLY, important for an MMO that Classic nails is the PACE of progression. It's slow enough to feel meaningful, but fast enough not to blow your brains out. That goes for levelling, power gain with talents, toolkit expansion with abilities, and gear upgrades.
When you get that good weapon, you frickin feel it.
These answer all your questions.
because game is so easy they can avoid being filtered hard
buy tokens piggy
>Instanced zones
Nah
Better writing.
More guy romance and blacks. Got it!
What shocks me to this day when it comes to writing. Old WoW writing wasn't amazing, it was extremely basic and serviceable. A lot of writers think a small generic "Bandits kidnapped my daughter for ransom help" story is bad because it's generic when that is just a writer's trap, just because its been done before doesn't make it bad writing. Instead of that it's "Bandits kidnapped my daughter, but hes also a victim of his world and is also having relationship issues! Also, I'm gay". It's like your browsing a WoW lore wiki where everything is spoonfed to you.
From what I know they also don't even do the interactable objects (diaries or notes in npc buildings) anymore. These would be the place to put all that extra shit. You only found out about the bandits possible past from clues in his home.
Retail's talent trees and huge and have some interesting things in them, but a lot the talents are redundant. You also aren't really committing to a build because you can reset your talents whenever you want, wherever you want. Makes it feel cheap to me. Retail feels like you're getting ass blasted to level cap and then you play with screeching autists who poke at you nonstop because you being not optimal is ruining their day/life.
Oh and there's no screeching autists in the classic? You got it all upside down. Also whoa +3% crit +3% dmg talents so cool.
I think he meant to say Retail first, and classic second.
Classic has more autists retail has the shit that feels like nothing matters
So then it's like
>I don't like it when I can do what I want
but also
>I don't like it when others people restrict me from doing what I want
The crit talents are actually kind of cool because it is also decreasing your chance to miss as well. There's a reason why +1% crit/hit items are so valuable at 60
What! Crit and hit are different stats
Yeah but don't they both stack with each other and against miss chance? Like when you get a percent of crit that decreases your ability to miss by the same percent. It's been forever since I last read about it honestly
Classic had more brutal and upfront lore.
Now retail has been just retconning everything and adding needless "but they did this for a good reason! "Erm they actually didn't do that!" and "They were actually controlled by cosmic forces so that's why they did that!"
This. Classic was badass. Modern WoW is fanfiction written by furries and femboys. They completely ruined most of the old Warcraft lore with their horrible writing.
They don't lmao.
>muh parses count
All of them are RMT boosts
undead just experimenting and torturing races
orcs just killing everything they march into
night elf babes killing everyone in their woods while the dudes sleep
tauren going on spirit quests high on their own jenkem
dwarves and gnomes just being bros
Story was not overly complex to the point of being completely stupid as shit, it was very simple and black and white.
Now the WoW story is all the races must align for a common purpose and saying shit like, "We must do better...we must BE better...not just for our future...but for the future...of ALL..
it just reads like some ad you'd see during campaigner season.
This.
Holy shit I hate retail and homosexuals who gobble up goyslop.
Stop giving blizzard money you moronic fricks and play on private servers. Classic is literally the worst form of vanilla.
Good alternative too warmane since they killed the seasonal server?
Not that guy but 1.12 servers are kinda dead now. Turtle is your only choice but some people get really upset about the changes.
>Turtle is your only choice
I don't speak chinese.
the other servers have more chinese.
Because it's not dead, like retail
Because it is a simple mmorpg. There are classes that perform ROLES in a Roleplaying game! Crazy! Not every class is the same!
yeah most of them are dogshit and only warrior/priest/rogue/mage are worth playing on more than one spec
And it’s still the most played version of the game. Get a clue. Nobody likes your moron snowflake specs.
lmao the most botted version you mean
nobody fricking plays this shit except chinks and cheaters
Cope. Hardcore has more concurrent players than wrath or retail, and it’s a pretty dogshit version of classic.
Anyone that hasn't realized at this point that every single game with multiplayer is filled with cheating morons than they never will
all classes are pretty equally distributed though? minmax autist
tell me about how many druid or paladin tanks are in the top 100 guilds anon go ahead and tell me about how your "but i grind mobs in burning steppes as a feral druid just fine!!!" experience
the game is 15 years old any class can raid
>top 100 guild
again 15 years old all mechanics are known and studied and you can easily get through everything without min maxing
Classic+ will fail if you morons that just want retail are in charge of decisions. Paladins are the best healers and that’s still not enough. Frick off you moronic homosexual.
lmao
>b-but the top 100!
exact problem with retailgays that ruined the game
1-60 is a compete experience without years of bullshit tacked on
I still can't believe we never got glaives in vanilla when they had it on the fricking box art.
Classic is not a good game, but a great MMORPG.
Retail is an ok-ish game, but not a good MMORPG.
I just prefer the former.
>dungeons have staying power; everyone wants to do ubrs for rend heads or alts and it’s simple fun
>lore is true to wc3, which is the original buy-in
>world buffs incentivize min-maxing but aren’t required to clear content
>pvp plays entirely different than pve. Warriors get shit on by Ele shamans
It has everything. Letting people streamline the experience is a massive mistake.
It had sovl, simple as.
Only downside to classic is all the Mexican latams that have infested the servers
For me the most important thing to vanilla wow is that it's not a fricking bloated mess of conflicting art styles and design. The game just feels so much better to play when there isn't a fricking panda wearing a bikini riding on a dinosaur in the middle of your grounded fantasy town. It seriously ruins the game for me to see so much cosmetic fricking shit everywhere.
>Regular old WoW
>You're just some shmuck who's good in a fight, heroes basically recruit you as extra fire power against the big bads.
>After big bad is defeated, you're basically free to return to your life of adventure and sell swording.
>WoW Now
>you are THE most important homie in all of Azeroth. Everything depends on what YOU do because you're the CHAMPION
They killed off Tyrion for frick sakes.
fricking moron
vanilla had you fighting old gods, the second in command to the lich king himself and his personal army, and an aspect
frick off with this "vanilla was low stakes!!!" shit, wow was never low stakes
no they had YOU fighting old gods
I never got that far.
His point was "we weren't put into the light as the main character but instead in the story to help" and somehow you missed this to defend modern blizzard.
Reading is a skill and you lack said skill.
nah Black person you were literally the main character
who else did the argent dawn send in to fight kel'thuzad? oh that's right nobody
it was you and 39 other weirdos who spent 2 weeks grinding zombies for rep turn ins
They sent a bunch of literal whos to fight them.
I see why you support WoW story so much now tardo.
I just like shutting down morons who think vanilla wow story was better than modern wow story when its literally always been the same shit
>I just like shutting down
Go back to twitter moron you're not getting likes here for being a mindless wiener grobbler.
The Argent Dawn sent in 40 mooks to gank Kel'thuzad just like you do in Warcraft 3
No you aren't THE main character but you are prominent.
They send in 40 adventurers to deal with these problems, you are a part of a whole instead of being the whole.
You aren't THE Champion of Azeroth who is still shoveling shit or killing ten dragonland gnolls for the sneed tribe of centaurs, thats the most jarring part tbh
because retail doesn't have pvp
i would never want back the WPvP in the capacity it was back in vanilla but for the love of god can we please just make battlegrounds good again and remove the stupid resilience nonsense
>i would never want back the WPvP in the capacity it was back in vanilla
make a toon on a pve server then, imagine whining about having a choice
i did move to a PvE server, after dealing with WPvP Black folk for longer than i should have. my point is those PvP servers are either dead beyond recognition or so heavily in favor of one faction that they're not worth playing on in the first place
>Classic WoW
>Walking in the world
>See someone while making my way from point A to B
>Strike up a conversation
>Make a new friend
Versus
>Retail WoW
>See someone fly at mach speed past you on their dragon
>People randomly phase in and out of shards
>Sit in the capital and queue for shit or browse group finder for M+
>No incentive to explore the world because add-ons tell you about everything you need to know
You can actually make bank in classic unlike the dead retail version of the game. And it's objectively a better game, and an actual MMO.
Can't wait for WoW classic vanilla kek.
What a load of brain damage.
>Getting so mad you have pre-made replies to seethe
classic is a shit cope game for people who can't bear to do anything more complex than what games asked them to do 20 years ago
Retail is literally dead. Fricking Black Desert Online has more players than retail WoW. Nobody wants to hang out with non-binary dragons and gay furries just to get a higher gearscore.
Classic is WoW at this point.
Retail is troony shit that will die once Classic+ rolls out.
I can hear you coping from here
and I said nothing about retail either
Your only choice for WoW is playing classic with one mechanic bosses, or playing retail where weakauras just plays the game for you because shit is beyond convoluted now.
I honestly wouldn't play either if I didn't personally have friends playing the game to play with
because its much easier and the focus is on what makes mmos good leveling and dungeons raids are gay and were a mistake also again its very easy
because its easy
people like feeling good about themselves, about beating the hardest content in the game and having the best gear
not possible in retail without dedicating your whole life to mythic raids or these time trial dungeons or whatever it is that currently gives the top stats
classic is a solved game, you can just enjoy it without worrying about farming up for the next raid or learning some new boss strats
I know for me it's just simply I'm not good enough, I like to be competitive in any game I play, but there's just simply too much going on for my boomer brain to keep up with in retail. Because of such I'm a shitter, so I stick with classic.
Classic has manly men doing manly things and retail has literally quests that have you play date doctor for gay couples.
you describing manly men doing manly things is gay
also epik asmonbald take
>you describing manly men doing manly things is gay
gay is fine. burly gay was wow
hell wow was always mostly men.
>retail has literally quests that have you play date doctor for gay couples
Yeah i find it odd people say turtle wow has trannies and you should pay blizzard a sub for classic instead... it's like bruh have you see modern retail.
And your sub for classic goes 100% to developing more of this garbage
Classic WoW and Burning Crusade are pretty good examples of mmos that feel like mmos, but it's only really good the first time around. You will never suffer your same mistakes and learn from them. You will never rediscover the abilities of other classes through making friends of people with said classes. I wish I could experience the game all over again, but it's not the same.
It's funny to remember the amount of people saying classic wow was going to die fast when the novelty wears off and that was everything just nostalgia. The only think it did was to make realize both boomers and zoomers that it was the actual best experience wow could ever have. And that the design choices for the expansions were all shit
>game is pretty much exclusively played by fat nolifeneckbeards who like big titty dark elves and who wish they could be a tall ass gigachad warrior who kills people with his sheer aura of manliness
>devs are a bunch of troons who make the story about muh feelings and muh peace and muh understanding frick racism btw
And you wonder why this shit is dead.
yeah but vulpera are cute
Aesthetically it’s superior to retail. I don’t want to see a bunch of furries and dragonkin larping as horde or alliance.
you sound like an avid games workshop visitor
I have been wrong about things before, so I can't answer why people, in general, prefer classic wow.
I have an idea, but it could be wrong.
What I CAN tell you is why I (me) enjoy classic HC wow over retail, and that's because to me it feels like a real little world.
I like that hunters have to feed their pets and keep them happy, that you can walk around Stormwind and recognize individuals based on their gear and all the trials they must have gone through, that before embarking on your next questing adventure you have to make bombs, buy potions, elixirs, food, bandages, and pack your lucky mechanical squirrel with you.
You never know if the friends you made have perished; sometimes you catch a glimpse of them as they leave the AH, other times you never see them again, leaving you to wonder what happened to them. It is a wonderful experience to play.
>classes have unique strengths and weaknesses and specific niches they fill
>stats actually matter instead of being decoration that you ignore in favor of gearscore
>classes generally have cool non-combat stuff they can do (no idea if this is still the case in retail because classes get overhauled constantly)
>game doesn't hold your hand while leveling
>aesthetic is generally better and more in line with wc3
>dungeon design wasn't afraid of doing cool shit like brd being a gigantic labryinth city
Vanilla is an mmorpg, retoilet is third person diablo for furries. That being said, vanilla is best experienced on a private server because pserver admins dont ignore server balance and gold buying like blizzard does.
retail's big problem right now is m+ makes casual raiding pointless, which means most guilds (the core of the game) have nothing to do, they based the whole game on unfun stuff only 5% of people like doing (poopsock raiding/keys) again, it should be the opposite with the focus on casual raiding with generous rewards
>playing through Wrath on Lordaeron private server
>several people leveling, PvP is there but not autistic levels of fighting
>have previous characters I can transfer gold from so I can run around with a better set of gear on my lock
Honestly I don't even understand why this server still gets the traffic it does, but it's still comfy.
Classic felt like an adventure, it was a much better game and not nostalgia. I got back to it a year ago and the journey was still fun. Tried wow for the last time on I think Legion and the game sucked ass so much, it felt like a hamster wheel, no journey at all, same as FFXIV.
I don't. I quit WoW after Burning Crusade came out and I'm astounded the game only got more popular after that point and it took more than a decade for people to realize it was shit. That's when I realized I'm actually smarter than 99% of the population.
Just look at hardcore. Classic is the fun experience where you live in a breathing world where tons of shit can go wrong or right.
In Retail WoW you raid - and you raid - and maybe you do some pvp in between - then you raid more. Feels like you are walking on a treadmill and expect to get somewhere.
In Classic meanwhile you make whatever character you want - have your little adventure - and once you feel that this story is done you make a new one and start all over again and have a completely new experience.
classic is easier than retail so people can buy GDKP gear easier than retail too. keep in mind people who were "pro" classic players were dying in tier 5 raids in TBC and only cleared classic vanilla due to world buff stacking
>muh game is harder
Yeah once you get past the skinners box of waiting for your biggest moron to learn mechanics, it gets fun!
classic doesnt have wowtoken troony
but it has body types and chinese gold farming GDKP
lmao imagine being so brainwashed you think the botton of "body type" is an issue that stays in your mind.
Gold farming is due to blizzard not enforcing its tos. It’s not a “classic” problem.
even moreso because players are buying it
Is that le hecking Demon Hunter?!?!
>dood classic is easy
Yeah. That's the point.
The game is easy to get into and you don't need to watch a million guides before getting into it. You also don't need to install a bunch of mods to make the game playable. It's casual as frick but that's why Classic is alive unlike retail. People ain't got no time for the bullshit there anymore.
Anyone EU interested in playing HC together?
Adding that I'm willing to play on NA*
yeah possibly.
I'm still salty after losing my last level 20 character though so I may put the game down for a bit
What's your discord tag or a way for me to contact you?
No one talks or interact with each other in retail, it might as well be a single player game. Classic at least feels like a world, an actual fricking MMORPG that many other games can't even claim to be anymore.
Exactly my experience in FFXIV, dunno why people play MMORPGs to not be social and the game is literally designed for single player gameplay, actively disencouraging multiplayer aside from dungeons/raids.
I actually like that about FFXIV.
It's a pretty social MMO, but only if you want it to be that, like going to ingame casino's or clubs, doing ultimates and savages, that stuff requires you to be social. But if you want none of that, you still are able to do content such as the MSQ, Island sanctuary, Alliance Raids and Extremes.
I hate it when people want the mmo to be entirely social, or not social at all, like Wow classic and retail.
>Classic at least feels like a world,
a world of boosting, a world of GDKP lmao
gdkp is fine
that is just mercenaries
makes sense in a world
I want Classic Refresh but with changes so the autistic min-maxers are lined up against a wall (IRL) and shot.
I just wish for a fresh MMORPG that had a huge world to explore in different ways with mostly horizontal progression like FFXI but with good gameplay, so that I could level through it in different ways and then after I'm on max level, I'd to max level content for a while and create a new character.
Right now the only game like that is classic wow and maybe os runescape.
why do people here hate min/max and theorycrafting so much?
Classic was about Question, Leveling, Dungeons and like an Adventure
Retail since WotLK is all about getting to max level fast so you can Raid.
classic was about racing to max level too though. the most popular addon is literally an addon so you dont need to read quest text and can just follow markers on the map
Even if you didn't read it, just going through the places and doing the quests lead you to journeying through the world and doing so many different actions, visiting cool places, and it also took like a month or two to get there.
I remember when I played through BC, I'd always have some characters going through the leveling and one or two max level for raids, because going through the leveling was never boring.
stop using classic as a term for vanilla makes it hard to understand
we get it, you were 12 years old when vanilla came out so you think that it wasn't about the endgame because you were a stupid kid who only had time after school to do like 6 quests so it took you ages to hit level cap
when in reality the game was literally always designed around getting to max level then raiding
How are you still posting this shit when classic is 4 years old and by far the most popular version of WoW? Awaiting your goal post shif
Fewer trannies.
I'm trans and I love WoW vanilla/classic
I haven't played Retail WoW in over a decade now, and everything I hear about it makes me angry.
I did briefly check Retail out when I first started playing Classic, though
>Log in to my old level 13 undead warlock
>Immediately get bombarded with a bunch of flashy pop up screens congratulating me on hitting the lofty level of 13
>Get fed a bunch of abilities
>Apparently, there aren't trainers anymore
>There apparently aren't talent trees anymore either, now you just select a "tree" and the game feeds you abilities
>Soulshards are gone, replaced with some bullshit counter in the corner of my screen
>It also looks like class quests are gone too, since the game just hands me my voidwalker
>The game then tries to push its bullshit in-game cash shop on me
>Get curious about what's happening in Orgrimmar
>Go to the zeppelin tower
>There is no zeppelin
>There's just a mage portal with some goblin making a quip about how the zeppelin is "down for maintenance"
>Mage portal takes me directly to the center of Orgrimmar
>Now its all this ugly iron shit, barely recognizable anymore
>The place is deserted and no one is saying or doing anything
>The few people that are there are just hovering in the air on their flying mounts
>Log off
>Uninstall
Most of what you described was changed in Cata/MoP. A shitload of the, for lack of a better term, SOVL in the game was removed in those two expacs.
That's one of the issues with retail, is that over the years they have just streamlined it more and more and more to the point where it's barely even an RPG anymore, it's closer to a 3rd person loot shooter with some very very light RPG aspects to it. It's not an MMO, and it's barely an RPG.
You must be on a dead server, anon. Org is always pretty crowded.
Low levels still barely have any abilities, but it's significantly more than classic ie - you don't have to cast only shadowbolt for 15 levels.
Org is dead af on most 'full' retail servers aside from the megaservers like Illidan and Area 52. There's no reason to be there when Valdrakken has everything
>Low levels still barely have any abilities, but it's significantly more than classic ie - you don't have to cast only shadowbolt for 15 levels.
Everything I've heard about Retail warlock gameplay is that you're still just spamming shadowbolts, but instead of shadowbolt spam taking 1 button, it takes like 15, where you have to push your buttons in a particular sequence while juggling cooldowns to get optimum damage output. Which, at the end of the day, is still just spamming attacks, even if its a game-ified attack spam.
And, meanwhile, they've basically stripped out most of the warlock's actual mechanics that aren't related to attack spams. The removal of soulshards comes to mind.
Soulshards are gone from the inventory and part of your resource system.
Intelligent use of soulshards is core gameplay for an effective lock.
There are talent builds to have fewer buttons in your rotation but it'll never just be 1-button spam like vanilla lol.
>Soulshards are gone from the inventory and part of your resource system.
Which means they've been effectively stripped out of the game.
>Intelligent use of soulshards is core gameplay for an effective lock.
Which means little when they're little more than "power up points" now that you get for doing certain abilities rather than the souls you've reaped from your enemies and put in your pocket, and they're used for little more than just "do more damage" abilities.
>There are talent builds to have fewer buttons in your rotation but it'll never just be 1-button spam like vanilla lol.
My issue isn't the number of buttons in the attack spams, and more the fact that the gameplay revolves entirely around attack spams.
If you're not casting attacks, what are you casting exactly?
Health management, mana management, threat management, crowd controls, debuffs, using your pets in some unique way like a potential voidwalker off-tank, so on and so forth. There's a whole world of things you can do other than just attack spam.
>health management
life drain, health stones? retail lock still has those
>mana management
lifetap lol
>crowd control, debuffs
yes still there too
>using a pet as an offtake
you can do that in basic dungeons yes just like in classic
you genuinely seem like you have no idea what you're talking about
I haven't seen anything to suggest that you actually do anything other than attack spams or that things like mana management or crowd control is even a thing anymore.
Every instance that I have seen has been people aggroing trash stacks and AoEing them down.
It's an area that could use improvement. A direction Blizzard decided not to take with Retail.
Even if the dungeon experience in Retail was amazing, and by all evidence I have ever seen, this is not the case, it's all still wrapped up inside the stinking pile of garbage that is Retail.
It has the problem of all modern MMOs. It's basically Darktide if you had to spend 80 hours killing shitty zombies to even be allowed on the Mourningstar, where you were then hit with a bunch of FOMO shit that tried to keep you playing every day, cash shop pay to win crap and a public matchmaking system that pretty much ensured you got the same parties every time.
>I haven't seen anything to suggest that you actually do anything other than attack spamsI haven't seen anything to suggest that you actually do anything other than attack spams
youre actually moronic and ESL, have a nice day
Literally every video I have ever seen of Retail gameplay has just been attack spams and every discussion of Retail content I have ever seen has only mentioned attack spams. All the complexity seems to come from outside gimmick mechanics special to the specific encounter, not with general mechanics or class mechanics.
in actual endgame content yes you do need to cc a lot of shit. interrupts, stuns, blinds, incapacitates, polymorphs etc
they are very important in m+ dungeons and a lot of raid fights will have adds that need to be kept in check with cc of some variety while it gets killed
I saw videos of people doing M+ runs, M+ speedruns even, and they were just doing AoE spams.
>watch video
>dont understand whats happening
>"yeah its just mindless aoe lol ez"
come on man. i could watch a raid from classic to wotlk and go "wtf its just casting frostbolt lol ez"
m+ has affixes that spawn adds that need to be cc'd within 4 seconds of spawning or else you wipe. thats on top of dealing with whatever normal dungeon mechanics there are. you have to use A LOT more stuns and cc in m+ than you needed to back in the day
you are literally fricking moronic, one of the complains a lot of people have is the amount of bullshit you have to deal with in m+ or you straight up wipe in a single pull
>but this guy with ilvl448 and 1000 played this season alone was doing a +20 with no issues
moron
void walker cant tank anything even slightly relevant
>and more the fact that the gameplay revolves entirely around attack spams.
dumb Black person
theres more mechanics on single mobs in a dungeon in retail than all of Molten Core, players are doing 100 more things than spamming attacks
>players are doing 100 more things than spamming attacks
And none of those things, apparently, have anything to do with your class.
Vanilla warlock is not 1 button spam, have you ever played one? Warlock levelling involves keeping up 3-4 dots, fear, drain life, drain soul, death coil, pet management. It's probably one of the more interesting classes to level
it's one button spam in raids, affliction isn't allowed due to debuff limits and demo isn't competitive at all compared to destro, which is shadowbolt spam
Ok great, the vast majority of the game for most people is levelling not completing raids from 2005
>majority of the game for most people is levelling
false
>Warlock levelling involves keeping up 3-4 dots, fear, drain life, drain soul, death coil, pet management.
nah
i leveled a warlock and killed rag within 2 weeks of classics launch. it wasnt mana efficient to cast dots while leveling. shadowbolt did more damage per mana spent, and did the damage quicker. i would only multidot in dungeons until i learned hellfire.
at that point i joined zoomer spellcleave groups with 3 frost mages, 1 priest, and a warlock (me). warlock summons eye of kilrog, priest shields eye, eyeball facepulls 10 trillion mobs, frost mages slow/root mobs, warlock hellfires
>I minmaxed my warlock levelling gameplay to be slightly more mana efficient by not using most of the spells provided
this is why people hate the modern classic community
maybe the game shouldnt have been designed like shit where mana is a limiting resource and some spells are overcosted?
It's more the cancerous efficiency mindset where everything is spreadsheeted and dots are determined as inefficient, despite being only marginally more expensive than shadowbolt spam. The whole thing is so autistic, the entire spirit of the game is lost. I guess you truly never can go back
>despite being only marginally more expensive than shadowbolt spam
no, it was DRASTICALLY more expensive and slower than shadowbolt spam. thats why I spammed shadowbolt. it was MUCH more effecient. this wasnt some 1% minmax nerd shit difference, it was a difference between going oom after killing a single guy and never going oom ever
I did lie though, I still used rank 1 drail soul with the talent that proc'd out of combat regen for 10 seconds if you killed something while channeling drain soul. again, had to calculate that rank 1 drain soul was the mathematically most effecient thing to use (instead of rank 6 or w/e) because it cost more mana than youd regain
classic was filled with dumbass numbers
You're supposed to pull 2 mobs and let the dots kill one while you life drain the other.
>youre supposed to kill the mobs with the button that does no damage
?????????
>life drain
>does no damage
wat
you dot 2 mobs, life tap, then drain one. once you get dark pact you have infinite mana.
life drains damage sucks you moron
if youre fighting 2 mobs at once youre fear juggling, not sitting there channeling life drain
this is basic shit that literally every leveling guide tells you, you were just playing suboptimally the entire time. you never run out of health and mana with life drain+life tap, you should never need to stop to eat/drink
>everything is spreadsheeted
literally just look at the tooltip and see whats doing more damage for the mana
>despite being only marginally more expensive than shadowbolt spam
which just means blizzard couldnt do basic math back in 2004
>The whole thing is so autistic, the entire spirit of the game is lost
You can find posts from 2004-2006 of people looking at weapons with different swing speeds to see what was optimal. How the frick do you play the game without even comparing if a button is good or not, just slam random binds on your keyboard?
the alternative was
>use all spells
>go oom after killing 1 guy
>sit and drink water for 20 seconds
i resorted to calculating damage per mana spent because of how boring it is to sit there doing nothing. its the games problem, not a community problem. maybe it was fun and engaging to sit doing nothing for 20 seconds when you were 12 years old in 2004 but thats awful in modern times
how did it go so wrong bros
>Vanilla Wow: Everyone is a moron, no one has a system to run the game at a stable fps, the internet is shit, and everyone loved it
>Classic WoW: Everyone min-maxes every single aspect of their character, everyone runs on 120 fps, the internet has unlimited resources telling you where to go and what to do, and everyone is miserable
Ignorance was always bliss. When everyone is engaged into minmaxing, that's when games stop being fun and just starts becoming a chore or into a second job.
i cant fathom how people enjoy the keyboard ddr shit, combat has always been the worst part of wow but it's just a shitty bandaid that turns mindlessly spamming 2 buttons into mindlessly spamming 8 buttons.
>mindfully spamming 8 buttons
>if I mess up I lose dps
>there's a timer ticking so losing dps is a bad thing
>just enough mechanics going on to take my focus away from my 8 buttons that I'm going to mess up eventually
I fail to see the problem
the problem is that it's fricking boring
The problem is that threat was a more interesting and engaging mechanic than DPS race.
threat is literally the worst mechanic created
its a shitty gear check on your tank and the counterplay to threat is to just stop playing the game
Everything is a gear check on the tank, the tank is literally "gear check - the role." That said, threat really wasn't that much of a gear dependent mechanic, with tanks that even had subpar weapons being able to reliably hold aggro after 3 sunders on their target.
And, yes, the gameplay around threat became less about mashing buttons and more about when you hit your buttons.
>with tanks that even had subpar weapons being able to reliably hold aggro after 3 sunders on their target
yeah you dont know what youre talking about at all. What kind of boomerism is this? DPS can still rip off tanks with a lucky crit chain even when geared
Sure, back in the days you'd need to keep an eye on your DPS and aggro count be randomly pulled off the tank, but that's why they had abilities like taunt. Generally speaking, though, tanks could hold fairly reliable aggro once they had three sunders down.
>well you see things were different when people didn't know what the frick they were doing
yeah no shit, everyone knows that, but we've had 20 years of practice so nobody plays like that anymore.
Well, also people don't play like that anymore because threat has essentially been removed as a mechanic. Even in Classic, they've tweaked tanks somehow to be threat generating machines and pulling aggro is now pretty rare no matter how hard you attack spam.
nobody plays like that because people back then were keyboard turning morons playing at 15 fps with 100 ping. sunder is fricking garbage, it doesn't even scale with gear so you'll get to a point where pressing it doesn't even matter.
People were bad back then, but people are bad now. People still do moron shit in Classic, but it just matters less now because the #1 cause of party wipes in Vanilla, mobs getting pulled off the tank and attacking the party, happens much, much more seldomly because Blizzard clearly tuned up threat generation.
and you think that blizzard did this and nobody noticed despite autists knowing every single number and mechanic in the game. this huge major mechanic was changed and the autists just glossed over it. this is an easier explanation for you than "people get better at a video game after 20 years"?
Basically, yes. Threat generation isn't something publicly displayed, and the autists don't actually get to look behind the hood.
What I know, is that I saw the same moron shit from players that I saw in Vanilla that would have caused them to pull aggro, but they didn't pull aggro. Hunters just laying into the DPS immediately and not pulling a damned thing. That was the reason everyone called them "huntards" back in the day, but huntard behavior magically works and doesn't cause issues all of a sudden in Classic.
why are you so confident about something you've done 0 research about. why are you so absolutely certain about this thing that you have no knowledge of
Probably personal experience. Why are you?
i get that you played vanilla when you were 12 years old but that doesn't make you more knowledgeable than people who have spent 20 years solving the game
You didn't answer my question.
What makes YOU "so confident about something you've done 0 research about?"
Why are YOU "so absolutely certain about this thing that you have no knowledge of?"
If you know what you're talking about, then prove it. i want you to go to the vanilla warrior discord full of the biggest autists on the planet and tell them that they're fricking morons who are wrong about everything and you know how the game really works. make sure to include screencaps
>If you know what you're talking about, then prove it.
You first, bud. What reason is there to think that threat wasn't messed with other than "autists are omniscient?"
>n-no you
Why are you so afraid to do this? If you're so right then what's the problem?
I'm not going to go argue with some dipshits on Discord because some butthole on Ganker told me they were the authority on all game mechanics because they're all supposedly "autists."
Even the people who made the many private Vanilla servers had a struggle to re-create the Vanilla experience because of the ambiguity of these background mechanics, but "autists" are going to know exactly how threat worked 20 years ago and be able to compare it to modern Classic.
Are you afraid of getting called moronic by a discord of autists?
No, I just don't want to go on Discord at all, especially not to go argue with strangers over anything. Especially not if I have not been given compelling evidence that these strangers have anything valuable to say.
do you want me to just link you all of the theory crafting and datamining or are you just gonna say "nu-uh"
Sure, go ahead.
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/threat-overview-classic-wow#threat-modifier-abilities-and-values-warrior
warriors back in vanilla didn't even spec or gear correctly, they just went full prot and used mitigation gear despite it being unnecessary most of the time. how many of these tanks even tried to get hit capped? i have no idea why you believe that 12 year olds in 2004 were playing optimally instead of just throwing whatever shit together.
That's literally just a list of threat generating abilities, buffs and items in Classic, not evidence that the internal mechanics of threat wasn't changed from Vanilla.
In fact, it points to Blizzard intentionally trying to obfuscate threat generation by removing the built-in threat handling and having people rely on add-ons.
They tweaked a lot more in classic than people realized
Threat is a neat idea that almost worked at first, but people figured out how to gear and spec for it. It eventually just became tanks building their character around generating so much threat that dps could just ignore it, and if your tank wasn't geared enough or didn't build their character around max threat at all costs then you'd be at a huge disadvantage.
Sure, but the way you fix that wasn't by just getting rid of threat and making it all a DPS race.
>combat has always been the worst part of wow
actual shitter post
do retoilets play any other games? are your standards that low?
Guitar hero bullshit
You're too shit at the game to do it so it's bad?
You know simple classes exist too right?
i dont, classic is a dogshit game
They appreciate slower, more meaningful progression.
What's the point of being instantly blasted to max level and endgame in a day? You're going to instantly forget all of that when you start your mythic+ loot treadmill.
Meanwhile in classic, you need resist gear, attunements, and even simple fights can be quite punishing.
For me, BC was the peak, wrath a close second, legion a distant 3rd, and everything else fairly terrible.
Retail is passable though; mainly refinements to existing systems. It's just bland to play the same game you've played for a decade without it significantly changing.
I prefer boomers to trannies, generally.
I hope they never change wotlk to cata
I honestly have no idea what they'll do next. No way they go to Cata, right?
why not, cata is just a better version of wrath
>cata is just a better version of wrath
0/10 bait
To use a
>Food Analogy
Classic is a well designefd burger
Retail is a burger with high quality buns and sauces but the meat is rancid
Retail has abandoned things like the leveling experience or the social aspect of an MMO and focused only on endgame content and getting your mythic key high
TBC was the best wow expansion ever existed. Locations are very climatic and cool. Dungeons were nicely designed with climatic music. Raids and dungeons were also nicely designed. And Karahzan was the best raid in history of wow, the design of environment and music there make a divine combination.
Wotlk is second best expansion. It finally concludes the story from warcraft 3. Lore was fine, dungeons were fine, and Ulduar was fricking awesome, second best raid in history of wow. Also the final battle with lich king on top of icecrown citadel was trully a cool final battle.
WotLK lore was trash and it started the whole "aggro every mob in the room and AoE them down" gameplay with basically non-existent mana management.
This aoe shit started at like end of wotlk like since ICC was introduced.
In Ulduar pulling entire room of trashmobs and AOE was still a very bad idea.
And Wotlk Lore was not trash, unless you never played warcraft 3 FT
Wrong on both accounts. Wotlk lore is so bad regarding arthas it contradicts itself and that crappy novel
>And Wotlk Lore was not trash, unless you never played warcraft 3 FT
Ner'zhul was the Lich King, not Arthas.
Arthas had his soul stolen by Frostmorne, he's just a meat puppet with a vestige of Arthas's personality left behind. This is the whole reason why he started serving the Lich King and destroyed Lordaeron.
The Lich King "Arthas" of WotLK acts more like Doctor Claw from Professor Gadget than Arthas. He doesn't even behave like Ner'zhul.
Arthas has no reason to want to be the Lich King in the first place, whereas Ner'zhul had many motivations and some big bones to pick with the major factions. Making Arthas the Lich King made for a directionless Lich King and it showed. Undead Arthas was just the wienery king of banter, and never worked as the main villain.
Tbc had good but very imbalances dungeons class wise (Pala tank/aoe /sham) which led to wotlk faceroll
my problem with wrath was that the leveling was fricking garbage, it was trash compared to vanilla and BC, but outside of that and the (mostly) lackluster raids I really liked it as an expansion
Well. Levelling in wotlk is more a controversial topic and its hard to trully conclude if it was a trash or cool.
IMO both wotlk leveling and vanilla/tbc leveling had some pros and cons.
I like a challenge of leveling in vanilla/tbc but also i like comfy dungeon spam and mob faceroll leveling in late wotlk.
ICC patch coming for wrath classic on Tuesday including random dungeon spam returning. yes I am willingly eating shit, but I am pumped
classic was great when it started but now its full of the same problems and players retail has, but is arguably worse because they refuse to admit it
no fricking content islands. thats what i fricking despise about every single expansion. youre no longer in the world of warcraft anymore. you just hang out on current content island until next content island is "revealed in fog" or whatever gay shit they come up with for why we couldn't go there before. its gay. i miss kalimdor and the eastern kingdoms and i miss just running, as in, truly RUNNING with your legs around with your buddy in the barrens and shit. also obviously all the lgbt gay shit in the game, but thats a given critique that has been given 100x times and blizzard still will not remove them. and still no playable ogres
every "expansion" actually made the game smaller as a result of that, and more disconnected
World exploring and world questing. Also the game was much simpler
I'm a huge casual who's been playing wow casually since tbc as a kid. I liked playing classic because it felt like a simple adventure with a great sense of scale and danger. The dungeons also felt a lot more epic, it better invokes classic fantasy.
I tried playing some Shadowlands one time and it felt like over designed nonsense to me. The quests and dungeons felt really meaningless to me, and I hated the overly railroaded and pretentious story. It was, simply put, extremely gay.
classic was made by a bunch of DnD nerds wanting to make a fun world for themselves and other to play and have fun in meanwhile retail is made for MDI/MLG and the players second.
>raiding is for MLG/MDI not the players
>M+ is for MLG/MDI not the players
>arena is for MLG/MDI not the players
>class balance is for arena
They even went as far as to remove amazingly fun aspects of the game because it doesn't fit with the MLG/MDI model. An example is Legion Hunter pet spec change, during SL & DF in the hunter beta forums it was the number one requested ability to bring back but was denied everytime because the pet would enter the arena in a "random" spec and in MLG/MDI random things cannot occur.
What bot keeps posting this?
What part am I wrong about?
MDI means mythic dungeon invitational you moronic Black person, so raiding and arena is obviously not for the MDI. Youre actually just spamming buzzwords because youre a moron
All of that content is for the players, which is why there are millions of keys run every season even above the reward cutoff and thousands of non-sponsored guilds clearing mythic raids
Hunter pets were changed so that species wasnt just a cosmetic feature. If you put even 2 seconds of thought into it (which is more than youre capable of) you would realize that a pet talent is no more random than player talents which they only added MORE of to PvP from legion onward
shut up you moronic Black person
His point is that endgame content is tuned according to the feedback of RWF and MDI shitheads, not casual players who make up 99% of the playerbase which is completely accurate. The retail endgame is a degenerate sweatfest that forgot why the game was ever popular and is rapidly losing players in DF, as the M+ and raiding population sinks lower than the lowest point in Shadowlands as of 10.1.5
>endgame content is tuned around the people who engage with it
>this is a bad thing because
Designing a game around 0.1% of the playerbase is insane and exactly what killed Wildstar. The fact that Mike Ybarra recently said you're not entitled to comment on the game unless you have cleared Mythic raids indicates the brainrot goes right to the top.
contrary to what you believe, retail WoW's endgame is extremely lax. low end mythic dungeons are faceroll tier as is LFR and normal difficulty raids. you lose out on literally nothing by not engaging with mythic +20s or mythic difficulty raids other than gear that makes number go higher, or alternate colors of gear for your fashion
you can even get your cool tier armor without engaging in raiding nowadays
>retail WoW's endgame is extremely lax
it is not and you're just lying at this point. I get that you're doing +25 keys and are completely detached from the average player and probably think you're correct
bro half the raid can be AFK in LFR and you can still get your clear and shiny loot. you have no idea what you're talking about and probably haven't even played the game since TBC
LFR has no mechanics and is basically just tourist mode. I have an active sub now you gigantic moron. The game is a M+ simulator, no other endgame content is relevant or populated
LFR is endgame. thats like saying 10man normal togc isnt endgame. its just the easiest of 4 difficulty modes.
for some bizarre reason, people think anything less than mythic raids and m+25s is irrelevant content
10 man normal togc actually has mechanics you need to do, not many, but they're there. LFR is so forgiving you can go afk and it doesn't matter. The fact that you think they're equivalent shows you don't do any of this content and just think the casuals can sit over in the corner and eat their slop and are ignoring casuals are the lifeblood of the game and subsidize development of all the high-end content
ok, lets go back a few replies
>Designing a game around 0.1% of the playerbase is insane
WoW's endgame is extremely lax
>it is not and you're just lying at this point.
but then...
>LFR is so forgiving you can go afk and it doesn't matter.
I accept your concession. wows endgame is so lax that you can go afk and it doesnt matter. your words
I dont know why you classicBlack folk just decide to skip lfr, normal and heroic. those are not designed for the 0.1% and are pretty lax. you still have to do mechanics in them. go have fun and play those if you hate 0.1% mythic raids.
People are looking for a moderate challenge just not an insane challenge, just like classic provided and retail largely does not, it's a very simple argument and you're not getting it due to retail brainrot
classic does not provide a challenge whatsoever
Retail has a full scale of difficulties, youre just lying about it not having a moderate challenge
>People are looking for a moderate challenge just not an insane challenge
good thing there are four difficulties of each raid tier and 30 difficulties of each dungeon so people can engage with whatever difficulties they want
you're asking for tourist modes for casual players which is everything below heroic raid and mythic+ dungeons
even morons who can't follow flashing buttons can clear heroics
there is no content you are missing out on in the game by choosing not to engage with mythic raids or clearing high level keys
nothing
nada
zilch
faction rep stuff
whatever the latest side zone is
gear catch-up activities like time warps or the new emerald dream shit
crafting/gathering
timewalking
rated or casual pvp
mountsmogcheevos
pet battles
fricking whatever other systems WoW has to engage with its 99% casual playerbase
just because you refuse to interact with them doesn't mean they don't exist. you're not happy with the high end players having high end content and you're not happy with the low and mid end content which is virtually identical but with smaller numbers so what do you want
>you're not happy with the high end players having high end content
No if they are happy I am fine. I am just not one of them so I left the game made exclusively made for them.
you clearly don't do any of the content you're talking about otherwise you'd realize how hollow it is and how absolutely not worth a fricking monthly sub fee it is to play PVP of all things, that is completely abandoned and hasn't had a new bg since BFA, and those were remasters of old bgs. Can you imagine paying $180 a year for a game mode that is straight up ignored by the PVE devs running the game?
I know plenty of people who's main activity in this game is pvp
I know people who do weekly heroics for welfare raid loot and then go do pet battles
I know people who push +25s and are some of the best players of their spec in NA
what are you actually asking for? if casuals want an easy mode version of the endgame it already exists. if you're asking for it to be more in depth and difficult then guess what it exists in the form of higher difficulties.
again, tell me what you think you are missing out on in the game by choosing to not do +25s and mythic raids because I keep asking you and you just keep jerking off saying that the hard stuff should be made easier when the easy version ALREADY EXISTS
Look how angry you are at someone just not liking raids
that is exactly the point
you are the wow audience. You are SEETHING furiously at someone just not liking one part of the content and moving on to other games instead
WoW is only for people like you who only like raiding. It is more obvious than ever reading your posts.
Calm down man
>dodges the question
you got blown out and now youre trying to save face, but its not working
that image has been floating around for years newbie
I am not even that anon so the question wasn't pointed at me. But look at how much hatred you have for people who want to do anything but raiding
>I know plenty of people who's main activity in this game is pvp
You would have to be insane to pay $180/year for the absolute shit that is served up as pvp nowadays. At the end of SL, one of the devs admitted there is nobody working on pvp any longer. There are no new maps, no balancing. Even playing COD for PVP would be more respectable this point, they at least release new content on a regular cadence
you know what? I fricking agree
I tell them to pick up a real competitive game or something but they just enjoy killing people in a single gcd and insist that relying on their add-ons that feed them data about every single cooldown someone has used or what they are being targeted with is skillful
it's some kind of self-hating masochism to pay $180 a year to play a mode that the devs have all but officially abandoned and hasn't received new content since 2018
>add-ons that feed them data about every single cooldown
this shit
every time I see an arena stream they have addons yelling BWOOP BWOOP YOU'RE ABOUT TO GET YOUR DICK SMASHED BY SOME DUDE OFF SCREEN USE A DEFENSIVE or BWOOP BWOOP THIS GUY HAS NO DEFENSIVE KILL HIM NOW
how is that not tantamount to cheating, you'd have no way of knowing that information normally
Even the devs have noted (multiple times) that addons are increasingly becoming a bigger and bigger issue, but they're not brave enough to just pull the trigger. If they did that, the vast majority of players would be at step 1 all over again. They'd have to learn mechanics, timing, positioning ect. It needs to happen though. Mods have always been around, even in Vanilla and TBC, but now their functionality is so advanced and intrusive, you way as well be cheating.
addons are literally weaker now than before, this is a made up scenario that has no basis in reality
addons are just an excuse for bad players. the same top pvp players competed with and without add ons when it came to tournaments that disallowed them.
I think it's important to note that WoW has chased off most of it's generalized "casual" players many years ago. That's why people get so upset when you bring up things like that. The only people that play retail WoW now are your SUPER casual players that just want to pet battle and talk in guild chat, and then the sweaty M+ spreadsheet types. They feel like you're attacking them.
yeah I figured there's some messed up psychology going on here. 'Casual' content is so dumb, you could sleepwalk through it. But anything higher than that immediately becomes sweatfest autism. There's a middle missing and I gather those people just quietly dipped out of the game years ago and you will never hear from the again. The only groups for normal raids I see now are AOTC required (sweatlord gatekept groups) or paid carry groups. There's no intermediate players completing content like there used to be.
AotC is not sweaty, youre just really dogshit at the game so anything above licking windows seems hardcore to you
>AotC is not sweaty
You actually are so divorced from the average player and trapped inside your own sweat bubble, you can't be reasoned with
you are inconceivably bad at the game
just learn to hit your buttons instead of crying on the internet
What must it be like to be this stupid?
ummmmm
https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=18253/ahead-of-the-curve-scalecommander-sarkareth
Wowhead says 31% of players have attained Ashes of Al'ar, you are actually moronic if you believe these numbers
Ashes has been trivial to farm for over 10 years now, yes many people have it
You’re saying 31% of players automatically reran tempest keep for years until they got a 0.1% drop rate mount. Yeah no
its a 1% drop you moron, and yes many players farm mounts moron
31% of players who are currently subbed have ashes of alar, yeah. if you are currently subbed you are an autistic moron so its highly likely that you did do that
Wowhead shows linked profile percentages not all player profile percentages, so it’s easy to believe anyone autistic enough to link their profile with wowhead is probably also a mountsmogscheevos sperg but not representative of the broader player base
Data for Azeroth goes by armory and comes in at 23% for Ashes
the mount is incredibly common
according to raider.io, 12,600 guilds have aotc
https://raider.io/aberrus-the-shadowed-crucible/boss-rankings/scalecommander-sarkareth/world/heroic/623#content
guild kills require 10-30 people
if 5-7% of wows population has aotc, wow has 4-5 million subscribers
if 31% of wows population has aotc, wow 1 million subscribers
which do you think is more likely
I guess the game is just massively weighted towards high-end players nowadays and mid core players are basically extinct
mid core players swapped to classic and classic HC.
classic is literally braindead baby mode
No midcore player is going to tolerate molten chore
that's why they play HC bozo, it's the ease of classic but with actual consequences for dying
He’s talking about wrath classic dumbass
Im midcore and did that, I just haven’t heard anyone else doing it but it’s clear that others did too based on aotc stats
aotc is midcore nowadays because of m+. m+ is easier than mythic raiding but gives the same ilvl rewards. midcore players can slowly gear up with weekly vault m+ loot and wear full mythic raid gear while progging heroic
Then what kind of things do you suggest they add?
The endgame is screaming out for relevant dungeons that aren't gatekept by spergs and have no timer. The solution would be solo queue M+ with timer removed. There's dozens of threads about this on the official forums for years now but nobody at Blizzard cares. Esports wins over all
>give me easy mode freebies
no shitter
It's not even about freebies, it's about how long it takes to get a group through the LFD tool, and then the group instantly falls apart if you wipe even once. It's just a massive waste of time, who would play this shit in 2023?
Barely anyone plays at that level.
Of course its tuned around actually playing properly, what else would it be tuned around moron
He's completely right though
I mean I'm sure most are aware of this at this point, but Ion quite literally came from Icy Veins. It's clear that his vision of the game was what it currently is, all along. I mean good on him, he has managed to chip away basically every single fun aspect of the game and turned it into spreadsheet material.
He's a massive math nerd and sees the game as a math problem to be optimized. I'm not sure he ever actually enjoyed the gameplay outside the theorycrafting side, because anyone that did would never make the decisions he has made. I wish they would take Tom Chilton off making gacha games and replace Ion as game director, at least the guy understands fun. Ion has had 8 years as game director to prove he absolutely does not.
>retail raids have 3 easy difficulties, 1 hard difficulty
>"OMG ALL RAIDS ARE MADE FOR MLG ELITE PLAYERS!!!"
>wotlk classic raids have 4 difficulties, all of them are so easy that everybody ignores the first 3 difficulties
>"this is good game design i approve of this!"
>dungeons have normal, heroic, mythic, then 20 more progressively difficult variants
>"OMG ALL DUNGEONS ARE MADE FOR MLG ELITE PLAYERS!!!!!"
>classic wotlk adds extra non-classic difficulty modes for dungeons that are still so easy everyone can beat them
>"this is good game design i approve of this!"
>retail arena is fighting other players
>"OMG ALL PLAYERS IN ARENA ARE MLG ELITE PLAYERS!!!"
>classic wotlk arena is fighting other players
>"this is good game design i approve of this!"
i unironically dont get it
are wow players just crybabies? if they cant beat the hardest content they think its bad design
The common thread is that autistic people should just die
>WoW thread ends up XIV crying or LE META BAD again
zzz
Frick off moron
project more
this but unironically. minmaxers and wannabe esport gays are cancer of gaming community. stop using activities that are made for having fun as your personal sublimation of real life achievements. Black person
>WHAA WHAA WHY CAN'T I BE A moron WITHOUT YOU POINTING IT OUT!!!
moron
greentext child with no arguments
Project more
You've posted this twice in this thread now probably thinking you're really clever and it's not an argument
Project more moron
You're crying because the vast majority of people want nothing to do with you in a video game because you act like a sperging moron.
You're now crying on an anime image board about how someone pointed this out.
You are the child and cry baby. So yes you're projecting homosexual.
>Imb4 more seething
playing games casually is good, playing games as a minmaxer wannabe esport homosexual is not. vast majority of people are casuals and they hate people like you who always start raging and crying the moment anything goes not like in their youtube tutorial videos. you didn't point out anything except your fantasies because you are an outsider who has to defend your opinion from everyone else. you are alone. nobody likes you. you are a homosexual and a moron
See how you seethe? Proves i'm correct.
Get bent homosexual.
>made a terrible meme about how being a meta slave is actually cool and not a form of mental illness
>nobody likes it
>so upset you can't stop posting trying to hide your butthurt
>YOU MADE THE IMAGE!
>Y-YOU'RE MY BOOGIEMAN!!!
What a homosexual. You're too young or reddit to be here.
but I don't seethe, or cry, or any other attempt to portray me saying that your opinion is moronic to be just an irrational emotional response. your opinion is objectively moronic and you can send as many meme replies with words "seethe", "cry" or "cope" as you want, it won't change reality where everyone shits on gays like you except other gays like you. I know it's very scary to accept this because your only source of dopamine is questionable tweaking of already solved decades old rpg, but literally everyone else thinks it's cringe
You're so mad. Not reading your seething book homosexual.
>not reading
ok this homosexual is done, bb
Cool didn't care when you started seething.
>zoom zoom with fried tiktok brains can't read 3 lines of text
lol
lmao even
>READ MY SEETHING TRASH!
No. Cry more.
lol seethe cope gay
cope
cope
seethe
copper
sneeze
sneed
This schizo drew this moronic image
hoping it will become a new meme, then got really angry and defensive once he realized nobody else thinks like him. Very funny situation.
you only have meme answers? do you repeat them when you run out?
Both WoW and XIV would be better if they obfuscated and removed any API that allows for addons
If you played games you'd understand.
Why the hell would I play Classic with a subscription over a private server for free?
"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't."
Better to just quit until/if a decent server is out (there are some but not vanilla)
M+ sucks if you don't have the bois to do runs with. Pugging in WoW is unbelievably shit.
>muh story!
>muh classes!
>muh scalies!
None of this matters anywhere near as much as the main endgame content being such an angsty sweatfest if you attempt to pug it.
5 years later and these vids by Preach are still painfully true:
I never understood why wow was build entirely for the endgame raiders. Sure give them content but don't make that the only game that matters. Its a niche group. It is like building your game around speedrunners and then wondering why everyone else is leaving.
what content is designed solely for endgame raiders? one raid dungeon per tier? literally everything else in the game can be done casually as a solo player
What content is there for solo players?
literally everything outside of dungeons
So quest designed to be rushed through to get to max level and?
There is no significant content for solo players in DF, they removed it all. World events are copy-pasted 5 minute events you're supposed to do repeatedly and are engaging for a day at absolute most
>There is no significant content for solo players in DF, they removed it all
what did they remove? when did wow ever have significant solo player content? in vanilla you leveled up and... that was it. in bc you had some rep dailies. thats all the content you got until like mop when they added the farm
Legion, BFA and SL all had pretty substantial gameplay loops to keep casuals engaged and all those are gone now because the sweaties didn't like them, so anyone that isn't doing +20 keys basically has nothing to do other than 'dreamsurges' which are fun for an hour at best before you realize how lazy it is
There is no such thing as a difficult MMORPG. Nothing in any version of WoW is difficult. It just takes time and having to deal with other people with mental deficiencies. Mechanically there are not many genres that are as easy.
I'll probably never play WoW again one way or another so I'm not sure it even matters, but one thing that really bothers me is how they've sanitized the game into just a blob of gray. The world, characters, story, none of it has any depth or intrigue anymore. And you'd think it would be the exact opposite with the 20 years it's had to develop itself. Sure it's a fantasy game, but none of it feels "real" anymore. There are no human stories.
Resubbed for a month for the first time since Warlords of Draenor
The retail feels exhausting because it's so heavily railroaded and storied that you feel like there is no sense of exploration or freedom; you just follow the quest markers from one node to the next. Also, they made it impossible to use the old character models and they de-souled the menus and interfaces by making them minimalist. There is tons of clutter and garbage everywhere. Game feels more like some chinese mmorpg than WoW.
affirmative action was a mistake
>Play a little bit without your friends
>Can no longer play with them because level difference fricks you both
Why did nobody copy level sync from ffxi?
I despise level scaling with every fiber of my being.
If you're leveling alongside friends then just don't level without them if you don't want to get ahead. Play another character or just work on professions or something. Level scaling is shit.
>Just don't play the game until you're able to organize your schedule with everyone.
Fun game.
To be fair WoW has always been like that for as long as it's existence. I was in my late teens when BC came out and a friend and I leveled multiple characters together. We'd basically have to schedule our lives around being able to play together.
When are they banning addons? Boss timers ruined the game.
>still $15/month
WHERE THE FRICK IS ALL THE MONEY GOING?
WHERE IS THE CONTENT?
DREAMSURGES PLAY LIKE THEY WERE DONE BY AN INTERN
WHERE IS THE CONTENT ION
WHERE IS IT
I cannot imagine waking up one day and thinking "yeah today I wanna play retail wow"
clarity of creative vision.
artstyle, UI, class design, world design, NPC encounters, itemisation, etc are all working in tandem to create a simulation of a real world.
nowadays you have a ridiculously huge development studio all with conflicted priorities and no central vision.
As the head of an indie game studio with one game under its belt, here's how I would improve WoW drastically in 3 easy steps:
I've never made a game nor played WoW but I can still tell you how to improve it.
>people still think Vanilla WoW was hard in Current Year
Dude the "no changes" crowd has literally full reversed course to beg Blizz for changes to make Classic even a little bit challenging. It was never hard. You and everyone else playing in 2006 were just bad.
You were playing the final stage nerfed bosses from 1.12, with talents and abilities players at the time never had and you wonder why the bosses were way easier than vanilla players said they were back in 2005? Are you stupid?
This myth still exists? Why do people bend over backwards to convince themselves that knowledge of the game never changed or improved over the course of 20 years? Playing at 60 fps with good internet, not clicking, and knowing how to gear and spec makes you better than 99.99% of the people who played in vanilla.
of course knowledge exist
but people also remember
hell people can post videos of how much harder it used to be and you still wont acknowledge that
>hell people can post videos of how much harder it used to be
Ok then post videos.
you have seen them back when classic came out and you chose to ignore them. You are going to do the same again
for you it has to be only knowledge that changed and nothing else ever
probably because you didn't play back then
Wait so you totally have proof, but you don't feel like posting it?
Yes. I don't really give a shit anymore.
>im right i dont need an argument or proof i win the argument
why do you argue like children?
Its not an argument
That is exactly the problem
back in the day it used to be "I didn't know so can you show me how it was in vanilla"
but with you you are trying to win an argument
and you win as long as you don't accept any proof provided to you. And you are desperate to win
so there is no point. I could show you commentated gameplay from someone showing how much easier classic is than real vanilla and you would not accept it because you want to win an argument only you are having
long way of saying you made it up to cope with classic being braindead
yeah spamming frostbolt is totally different than spamming shadowbolt
I have never touched classic wow
I was one of the people strongly arguing against 1.12 nerfed shit and when it happened I said I wouldn't need to play classic
Yeah 1.12 isn't really Classic, as well as Blizzard adding their own "fixes" like removing front stab, "simulating" spell batching etc.
>i shouldnt NEED to prove that im not a delusional moron
>why? i just fricking dont
wow great argument homosexualron you sure showed me.
Again we are not having an argument. Calm down. You win. Whatever you want to win I really don't care.
you sound like someone with npd. physically unable to admit that you're wrong about something
I am wrong about everything you want me to be wrong about
Why dont you just accept your wrong faster next time instead of wasting smarter people's time?
Because I mistook you as someone who wanted information about how it truly was back then and not someone who just wanted to win an argument about something he never played
>Because I mistook you as someone who wanted information about how it truly was back then
then why have you avoided posting any such information, even when asked?
>then why have you avoided posting any such information
Because you used the word argument
Which was not what I was looking for and I really don't feel like going for even more than a minute to find a video for you to just ignore it
Its not an argument for me. I am not looking for an argument
this is the weakest scapegoat yet. Of course its an argument, any time 2 people disagree its an argument, you knew it was an argument and you knew that you didnt have proof, so now youre just trying to deflect
>. Of course its an argument
okay you win then. Argument over
Its not an argument for me.
When I ask someone about something I haven't played usually I try to get genuine information and not argue
>INTP sperge starts haywiring
hey you 2 Black folk arguing about if patch 1.12 made bosses easier: wowpedia has every patch note for every patch in the entire game. go pull up whatever patch nerfed the bosses
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.12.0
>I really don't feel like going for even more than a minute to find a video for you to just ignore it
so instead you felt like replying for an hour
lol
>so instead you felt like replying for an hour
Yes.
this is no effort.
I don't think I said bosses but okay
>I don't think I said bosses but okay
>You were playing the final stage nerfed bosses from 1.12
your memory...has failed you....
...is it possible...that you were wrong....no....it cant be true....
It's more the dungeons got nerfed heaps overtime and classes/items got buffed.
Strath in 1.1 was like a heroic mode and by 1.12 it was normal.
based. Ganker could learn a lot from you. unironically
bro he's not wrong, he's a 200iq genius with a perfect memory so there's no way he just misremembered something from a video game. there's no reason in trying to prove himself correct either, the plebs simply can't comprehend his genius.
well to be fair you guys do know better having never played the game in the first place and going only by forum posts
that is more valid than memory
numbers are more valid than your nostalgia, yes.
I'm not sure why this is even an argument, players gained enormous power just by talent changes from 1.1 to 1.12. The game is objectively significantly easier even if boss nerfs did not occur, which they did.
i did play the game
you refuse to believe me there's something wrong with your brain that can't be allowed to be incorrect about trivial shit like the difficulty of a 20 year old video game
>i did play the game
During vanilla was what I meant
>you refuse to believe me there's something wrong with your brain that can't be allowed to be incorrect about trivial shit like the difficulty of a 20 year old video game
I didn't come to the conclusion
it was those videos of other people showing me direct comparisons that convinced me.
If you ask me I didn't know what I was doing in vanilla and never raided AQ and naxx
My information is not based on memory but based on people showing me the real comparison
>it was those videos of other people showing me direct comparisons that convinced me
You keep talking about this mythical video but for some reason you absolutely refused to post it. Weird.
Why would I post it. You are not going to watch it. It is an argument for you you are desperate to win
if I wanted to win an argument I would not watch any video that could disprove it
holy shit there really is something wrong with you. the fricking mental gymnastics are insane
his argument is gonna be that all of these nerfs were undocumented. he genuinely cannot admit "yeah ok my bad i guess i didnt remember two decades ago 100% perfectly", there will always be some kind of excuse
>the fricking mental gymnastics are insane
Anon I just don't think you really care to see evidence.
The more you post the more I am convinced you don't care about anything that could prove you wrong and you already made up your mind. So there is no point
>guy keeps asking to see proof
>YOU DONT REALLY WANT TO SEE IT
Im sure in your rotten little mind this somehow made sense, but to anyone with a functioning brain its obvious just how badly youre floundering
okay I am "floundering" that means you as the official argument judge judge him as the winner
Okay. I don't care. never was an argument for me.
The angrier you guys get the less I wanna post it.
Anyone arguing with me you officially won.
I can't prove him wrong. See I am floundering and only wasting time. The video I am currently rewatching in a different tab just doesn't exist.
>The video I am currently rewatching in a different tab just doesn't exist.
Correct, this is something you made up or you would have posted it already
Then post it.
you dont want to see it
Okay let me post it.
Sorry he just said it doesn't exist. Now I want to not post it again
Funny enough the guy in the video is using stratholme as an example. Especially trash there
is acting like a moron online for negative attention a fulfilling hobby? asking for a friend
now you are never going to see the video, hope you are happy
I can't see what never existed in the first place
See the thing is when you have the evidence directly in front of you, like I have the video. Every post saying it doesn't exist is automatically 100% wrong. They are confident it doesn't exist. And the more confident they are the more wrong I know they are. That is enough for me.
What video?
Some guy going through strat in vanilla and classic to show the difficulty difference
link?
I can't post it because that would be like losing because of earlier posts. Sorry. You seem like you just genuinely want to see it.
im the guy who brought up the wowpedia patch notes and i want to see your evidence
oh look, the 200iq genius has already determined the future, there's no need to post proof his claims because he's already seen into the future
just post it anon, show him wrong, i believe in you
no video exists or you would have posted it
>Just do a whole bunch of research and spoonfeed me patch notes that anyone playing at the time saw everything getting nerfed as each patch came out
look it up yourself obnoxious homosexual, were you even born when Vanilla was current content?
Are you actually not aware that talents and classes changed radically from 1.0 to 1.12 and old raid bosses were nerfed to the ground to get more people into Naxx (which failed dismally, only 1% of players ever reached it)?
>old raid bosses were nerfed to the ground to get more people into Naxx
Post proof. And no, "well you see when I was a teenager 20 years ago the game seemed harder" is not proof.
>I never played wow back then
is also not a good argument bro
also my reaction time was a lot better back then than it is now.
Isn't it crazy how this is common knowledge and everyone knows it but there's no actual documented evidence?
bro of course 1.12 is easy
Less bloat
Easier/simpler gameplay (MMOs are best when they're easy, since if it's easy you can chat and socialize with people while playing, difficulty is the bane of fun in MMOs).
Better story/lore from back before it got ruined by stupid bullshit.
Classic has better leveling, classes feel unique and the atmosphere of the world is unmatched.
However a lot of people just load up rested XP guide, wowhead their talent build and try to farm dungeons for exp if they can. I think Turtle WoW captures Vanilla better and HC Classic isn't bad either even if it's a bit pay2win.
Classic is dying too right now, Wrath made as many bad changes as good ones and it's really burning people out. Plus once this content runs out the "Classic" era of WoW is over and the giant steaming turd of Cata rears it's ugly head again.
Though Blizzard won't even be a company in a few years so it hardly matters.
Retail wow looks like a pixar movie, the classes have been overhauled and redesigned so often that mist specs have become a schizophrenic mix of contradictory mechanics, and it exclusively caters to sweatlords and turbocasuals with ansolutely no in-between.
Meanwhile i plai WotLK classic, log in for a few hours a week to do togc 10 and 25 on a couple of characters, try to beat my previous parses, and log out until the next raid. No grindy obnoxious bullshit that expects me to log in every day and do chores.
I’ll play wow again if it goes f2p. Simple as. Take that to your leaders, bliztroon spies. And no your wow token bs doesnt count
Classic world is good
Retail 'worlds' are just chores to funnel you into borrowed power raid logging
Blizzard held on for about 10 years longer than they should have due to braindead brand loyalists but it's finally time to watch them close their doors in 2024. Either Activision absorbs the """talent""" or they straight up close them and cash in on the IPs however they can with more chinese mobile games.
>just 2 more weeks until [big company] collapses!
blizzard has enough whales keeping them alive. they dont make as much money as activison anymore but they still make enough money to not get closed down.
It's actually going to happen this time, they have zero new products in the works that will "save" them and everything recent has failed. D4 and retail WoW numbers are in the toilet, Overwatch 2 is genuinely dead by any metric and Classic has a hard timer on how long people will entertain it. Which is pretty much up until Icecrown Citadel.
diablo 4 sold tends of millions, it might be the most successful game this year
You really are delusional
I think that anon think D4 is a sub based game, it is true that the playerbase for D4 has deflated, but that doesn't mean the game didn't sell well initially. and as we all know, most sales for most games are made on the opening week.
>entire thread are just people regurgitating e-feleb slop
None of you are considered a real person
noone on Ganker deserves an ounce of respect in any avenue of their life
>if someone on the internet with a platform says a thing you're no longer human if you share the same opinion
autism is a hell of a drug
Hey guys my dad works at blizzard and he said that you can get the ashbringer if you beat kel'thuzad 200 times in a row, I have it on my paladin too. No I can't show you because you wouldn't believe me.
The leveling experience in retail is aids and the writing is super aids. The writing in Vanilla was never impressive but it wasn't actively bad like the current stuff has been.
I still can't belive XIV managed to kill WoW. That MMO was supposed to be DOA.
it was until yoshi P turned it into a WoW clone with ARR.
>Make the endgame autistically hard for regular players
>Wonder why the only people playing are anti-social spergs who just want to keep making it harder
there are easier difficulties available
youre just mad that theres concrete proof you arent the best player around
"Easier" difficulties that are still hard for regular players, yeah. Just because you have 1000 days /played and can do every dungeon blindfolded doesnt mean everyone else can.
Thats why your game is dying, you're exactly the type of person I was on about.
Current retail players have zero self awareness of why the subs have likely dropped below 1m and will continue dropping
>lfr is too hard for regular players
yikes
you must be a quadriplegic if you find the easy difficulties too hard
have you considered not being crippled?
>Just because you have 1000 days /played and can do every dungeon blindfolded doesnt mean everyone else can
i started playing wow during the year long siege of orgrimmar patch. i beat garrosh on 25 normal, couldnt beat heroic until the wod prepatch. i probably had less than 10 days played lol. i didnt know what a parse was, didnt have a dps meter, had a guildie explain how to prepot, didnt know that red armor guy in your ui meant your armor was broken and you needed to repair, had an nvidia 3d vision driver bug that hid all damage numbers when i was below ground (so the entire 2nd half of the raid didnt have numbers show up when i got hit/healed/damaged a boss), and yet i was still competent enough to not be gkicked. all i did was look up a guide on icy veins on how to play ele shaman. my only other wow experience was playing a vanilla private server to level 30 with some friends, who all quit to go play retail and dragged me along
im either a wow prodigy or youre a drooling moron
Heroic is easy as frick abd mythic is obnoxious. There's literally no middle ground available.
It’s just Wildstar playing out over again. Nobody learn any lessons from that apparently
>lfr is easy
>normal is easy
>heroic is easy
>mythic is hard
>"NOOOOOOOOO ALL OF ENDGAME IS HARD!!!!!!!!!!!"
why dont you have fun doing easy mode raids? lfr is easier than classic wotlk 25m heroic. shouldnt you be having more fun because its easier?
The end game of wow was never easier, addons do literally everything for you and every raid comes out with a blizzard official guide, back in the early years of wow there weren't guides or videos, people went in blind and had to figure shit out on the spot, they actually had to analyze the situation in real time without any tool (VERY limited damage breakdowns, no logs, no stream replays etc) addons were extremely limited and much less precise than they are now, there were no guides for classes, barely any healer knew about down ranking etc, in general all the resources management was much harder due to lack of tech.
Hey guys I just wanted to say that there is no video and I was wrong. I just didn't want to accept that I was wrong about raids not being easy back in the day. I hope you can forgive me.
>raids
actually its mostly just dungeons that we are comparing not raids
oh that's weird because you said something different
actually i just alt tabbed and the video appeared, please ignore my previous post
No, you cannot see the video
I actually finished the video by now and now my youtube algorithm is nothing but asmongold reacting to hardcore deaths
so you guys win in the end.
Different anon. Not me.
>WoW vets get tired of their game to shit and migrate to XIV
>XIV goes to shit shortly after
Rather than accusing I'm just saying you all don't catch a break. Everything is getting fricking streamlined to death and major features ripped out to appeal to a newcomer percentile that don't actually appreciate or care that much.
less hand holding
less gay
some qol in newer things but overall to homosexual and guided
>go to /vg/
>dumb Black folk think private vanilla servers have Naxx on farm day one
because classic is clicker friendly.