Only real argument for it not being considered a battle gimmick like the Z-Moves, Dynamax, and Tera is that it is the only one that appeared in more than generation. In my opinion that suggests that it was originally intended to be just a new mechanic introduced, similar to how abilities were introduced in Gen 3 and then persisted afterward, but in practice Mega Evolutions are pretty similar to the other gimmicks, so it may as well be considered one.
Maybe but unlike the other gimmicks mega-evos are limted to only a few mons. This has the effect of making it feel special. Anything can hold a z-crystal, anything can dynamax and anything can tera but only a few mons get to mega evolve. Sure, a few mons get special z-attacks or a special giant form but that's just adding a twist to the gimmick that every mon already gets.
I think most people do consider it a battle gimmick? But when they were introduced it seemed like they were going to be a mainstay mechanic, it's only in retrospect after z moves, dynamax etc that we can look back and see it as the one-off gimmick it was (well, two-off). So they had a different first impression that might've stuck with people.
It's the most recurring one since it shows up in three regions and has appeared in multiple spinoffs since being introduced. Compared to the other gimmicks, it feels the most like it was intended to stick around and be a main thing.
Only real argument for it to be considered a battle gimmick is that it's typically associated with Kalos and that it conveniently took a Kalos game for them to bring it back. In practice, they are nothing like the actual battle gimmicks because mechanically their function is on an entirely different scope and effect for its usage, how its distributed amongst Pokemon, and whether or not you might want to use it at all over the actual buffs XY gave Pokes outside of the Mega Evolution bubble.
gf doesn't consider it a gimmick so it isn't a gimmick. technically speaking they are far more similar to regional forms and that's how they're categorized officially.
UNOVAAAA pokemon were given an entire region too themselves, Oshawott was a legends starter, and Samurott even got the only Hisain form that wasn't intentionally crippled in some way.
>he says, in the generation where amoonguss, volcarona, hydreigon, and the swords of justice got special snowflake forms >and volcarona even got TWO
also this
The only caveat is that Unova only got 2 super saiyan transformations (the objectively best kind of form because those directly elevate the pokemon that get them). However, as a whole Unova Pokemon were already designed to succeed, they don't need help from powercreep because they ARE the power creep.
It's iteraly the opposite of how they treat Johto. The only region that Game Freak shills more than Unova are Hoenn and KANTOOOOOOO.
I hate the shillmon shit going on here. No marketing was needed for me to enjoy the mega evolutions that they chose to distribute. Almost every single one of them was a was popular due to design or iconic purposes like Aerodactyl as the most major gen 1 fossil. Other than those reasons the other condition was that they were already ready to breach into something more intricate based on where they were at in their evolutionary stage.
It makes no sense for some dumpster fire hick backwater Pokémon to gain a mega evolution because they’re basic b***h and as a species just not at that level of ascension. Nobody cares about mega parasect.
If you’re a minority who don’t like the pool of Pokémon they chose just because people tend to like them more than average - you’re the minority and therefore you’re the autistic c**t trying to be a contrarion. Just because you like to eat literal steaming human shit straight from a gaping pink sock doesn’t mean that everyone else has bad taste. (Aimed at nobody in particular, just the crygays who always moan about the made up category of shillmon)
mega garchomp is arguably worse than normal chomp and you’re sacrificing your mega slot, you didnt play the game. and legendaries dont count unless VGC allows them for a season which led to primal spam and every team being the same
mega chomp came into its own towards the end of gen 7, people realized mixed sets were actually pretty damn strong and made it one of the best stealth rock users around since there wasn't a defogger in the game that could take it on. having both your attacking stats at nearly 400 was wild.
definitely still a sidegrade mega though, as it should be for something with that much BST. looking at you, mega mence.
I’m still livid that Salamence and Metagross got Megas when they didn’t need them, with the former taking away Mega Pinsir’s niche and consigning it to oblivion. Would have rather had Mega Flygon and Mega Butterfree or Ledian instead.
>mega garchomp is arguably worse than normal chomp and you’re sacrificing your mega slot, you didnt play the game.
if anything this goes against your argument that it is making shitmons stronger.
>you just hate it because its moronic distribution doesn't pander to you!
Cope. Z-A will be (technically) the first without my favorite and that doesn't mean I'm rooting for it to be the worst game in the franchise.
I hate them because they made my favorite look stupid.
He's not even the worst offender either. I feel real bad for, like, Rayquaza, Swampert, Latios, or Slowbro fans. They got absolutely butchered when mega evolving.
>Why do some people not consider Mega Evolution a battle gimmick?
Why is it that some people do? The ones everyone compares it to (Z-Moves, Dynamax, Tera) were never iterated on for a single, full gen. Meanwhile megas got game changing enhancements the gen after in gen 7 which the speed mechanic.
I also don't see any "Gigantamax Form" category here.
Almost all of the megas were a drastic visual improvement to their normal forms. For normal people, that's pretty much enough for mega evolution to win them over.
>the mega gimmick can only be used in battle
gee i wonder why they use that term, moronic homosexual.
even shadow pokemon have more points on their favor to not be called a battle gimmick.
>What's funny is Alakazam is objectively much better gens 4 onwards
lmao absolutely not. Good fricking luck using Alakazam in gen 4+ when they decided to go full moron and add Sucker Punch and a frickton of physical Dark moves to the game.
> What item do i give my Alakazam in gen 3?
Choice Band.
>Good fricking luck using Alakazam in gen 4+ when they decided to go full moron and add Sucker Punch and a frickton of physical Dark moves to the game
You already had this problem with ghost moves THOUGH >Choice Band
LMAO
Thanks for proving my point
>No because the vast majority of ghost move users don’t have STAB on it
You're still not living one, and the lack of priority doesn't matter either since unboosted Alakazam will struggle to OHKO things >What point?
That gen 3 Alakazam has no item >campaignshitter
what
I still consider it a gimmick, but I can see why some people wouldn't. Mega Evolutions were a pretty substantial change that fundamentally changed the series by adding temporary evolutions to some mons, while every other new gimmick is pretty superficial with some lore added to make it seem deeper than it actually is
>Yes I am
lmao no. Hell it doesn't even have to be SE. Stab EQ OHKOs Alakazam >Then boost first
And how do i do that? Especially if i have to trick a choice band first, meaning i can't freely pick who i'm putting Alakazam against and have to run both trick and calm mind, so i only have two slots left for offensive moves, so psychic and uh man i sure hope Alakazam has anything that can hit dark or psychic super effectively in gen 3... oh. Well i'll just use fire punch! Opponent sent out Sharpedo/Slowbro! Well fug >Choice Band is an item
It's a shit item that limits Alakazam more than anything and costs a move slot, fricking leftovers or shell belll are better items on it, that's how bad Alakazam's gen 3 item pool is >It’s the thing that you are. You [HEADCANON]
Interesting!
>opponent sends out sharpedo >don’t die because I already have a calm mind boost and sharpedo can’t use any physical dark moves against me
damn I love playing games that are actually well balanced instead of gen 4 phys/spec split slop
>Damn, gen 4 removed STAB EQ?
No, but it made Alakazam strong enough to outspeed and OHKO before getting hit by one >Have you tried clicking Calm Mind
And then get hit >You don’t need to hit them super effectively
Except when their other type can resist my coverage, you fricking moron. Also neutral elemental punches from Alakazam won't kill shit even at +1 >Maybe if you’re bad at using it
I'm not the one giving it to a fast special attacker.
>opponent sends out sharpedo >don’t die because I already have a calm mind boost and sharpedo can’t use any physical dark moves against me
damn I love playing games that are actually well balanced instead of gen 4 phys/spec split slop
>Implying Alakazam is taking a slash from Sharpedo
Weren't you the one telling me to stop obsessing over super effective moves?
Expanded upon in later generations with their own walking/running animations and dex entries. Presence in Kanto, Hoenn, Kalos, and Alola and even appeared in the early SwSh title screen
you could argue lets go with zmoves but even then megas were still in which helped feed into the belief these were going to be a permanent thing
>false equivalency
Z-Moves were the ones that were never going to leave Alola. There was no implication Mega Evolutions were the same. There still isn't any.
you could argue lets go with zmoves but even then megas were still in which helped feed into the belief these were going to be a permanent thing
[...] >false equivalency
Z-Moves were the ones that were never going to leave Alola. There was no implication Mega Evolutions were the same. There still isn't any.
Just looked up the definition of a gimmick. I missed the part that mentions something lasting slightly longer somehow means it isn't a gimmick.
I just looked up the definition of gimmick, I missed the part where we were randomly putting actual mechanics in the definition among the regional marketing schlock somehow makes it a gimmick.
this really should close the book on the debate, if i read this without the context of it being the definition of the word gimmick i'd have said someone wrote it to describe mega evolution specifically.
mega evolution is balanced mechanic that sacrifices an item slot and team preview makes it predictable so that players can plan around fighting a potential mega. >inb4 what about mega mewtwo and mega fug
legendaries dont count and are banned from most competitive tournaments anyways. and whenever VGC has no restrictions its a legendary shitshow anyways
Gimmick mechanics like Megas/Z moves/Dyna/Tera are gimmicks because they only show up in a few games. Usually limited to one gen.
Baseline mechanics are something that show up in every single game that comes out after it was introduced. Held Items/Abilities, shit like that.
I think mega is a neat idea. I just think alot more pokemon should have got them and some of the Megas should of just been outright evolutions. Mons like Aerodactyl or Abomasnow. ALL of the starters should have got Megas. Z Moves are still better and should be a baseline mechanic in every single game.
> Gimmick mechanics like Megas/Z moves/Dyna/Tera are gimmicks because they only show up in a few games. Usually limited to one gen.
Yep. Examples of gimmicks include:
Gems
Triple Battles
Rotation Battles
The biggest argument megagays have is "i-it was in multiple generations!" despite the fact that megas have no prevalence in Alola whatsoever and are literally just shoved in the Battle Tree.
The only reason they lasted into Alola was because Gamefreak didn't have the balls to cut anything yet, but they were clearly done with the mechanic.
>The biggest argument doublesgays have is "i-it was in multiple generations!" despite the fact that double battles have no prevalence in Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, etc whatsoever and are literally just shoved in the Battle Factilities.
moron
doubles do have prevalence in Sinnoh because the stat trainers exist and you go through entire areas in nothing but doubles.
Same is true for Black & White with double grass, & escorting Cheren in Pinwheel forest in B2W2.
I kind of forget where Gen 6 uses double battles
The totem pokemon & SOS calling use doubles against you.
Doubles has always been there since it's been introduced.
While Megas were in gen 7,did it get any new forms? Megas were also you know, cut from the games entirely since gen 8 up until when ever PLZA comes out.
do you people think saying pedantic shit like this is some kind of gotcha? nitpicking stupid shit like a singular exception to a general trend just to dodge the point doesn't win arguments, it just makes you look like a jackass
This is how they all are. People acted the same when Pluto became a dwarf planet. >Planets are spherical >SO PLUTO IS A PLANET RIGHT >no, it also has to be above a certain mass >SO THE SUN IS A PLANET >no, it doesn't orbit a star, another criteria >BUT IT ORBITS STARS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GALAXY >it's not actually orbiting them but rather black hole, moron
They're not actually arguing except for the sake of arguing. Ignore them.
2 months ago
Anonymous
to be entirely fair the new definition of planet is dumb as frick, the "must clear its orbit of debris" rule is incredibly tacked on and the distinction only exists so that there aren't a ton of planets in the solar system. it's really arbitrary and pointless from any standpoint other than the ease of teaching literal children about space. if a body is massive enough to be spherical under its own gravity but not massive enough to undergo nuclear fusion at its core it should be considered a planet, there's not a good reason dwarf planets and large moons shouldn't also be considered planets when they're essentially the same types of objects as planets.
i get what you mean though, about arguing with stupid people.
>if its something that's been cut in swsh it means it was a gimmick even if comes back later
sure go ahead and call half of the pokedex a gimmick then when dexit happened. I guess furfrou is just a gimmick too
They aren't a major part of Alola's story, bug they are expanded upon with new dex entries, new animations for walking/running (hinting at expanded usage of them) and changes to their speed priority in battles. All aspects that indicate a desire to expand further with the mechanic.
>but they were clearly done with the mechanic.
Is that why they put Megas in Gen 7's remake? >b-b-but it was a GO cashgrab!
Why put them in a GO cashgrab then? GO didn't even have megas. Even in retrospect where GO DOES have megas and they're highly relevant, there's zero indication they're going to put the "other" gimmicks in anyway.
On top of that, Megas have a dedicated category in the National Dex along with shinies and regional forms. Gigantamax forms do not. What gives?
>gigantamax
Unlike megas, you can miss registering gigantamax. That's why it doesn't have it's own category. I didn't had a switch during Gen 8 but got it during Gen 9. I register Venusaur from Gen 9 and even though Gen 9 doesn't have megas, it still got the mega register, but not the g-max form.
XYgotes can cry all they want, but even the devs explicitly say that Dynamax REPLACED Megas. They're viewed as one and the same because they serve the same purpose: Shilling new temporary in-battle shit Fromm a new "phenomenon"for marketing purposes.
>Battle gimmicks exist for marketing and pander to old mons >SO CROSSGENS AND LEGENDARIES ARE BATTLE GIMMICKS >no, they're permanent features, gimmicks get cut and replaced >IT WAS AROUND FOR MORE THAN ONE GEN IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PERMANENT >they were still cut and completely tacked on in gen 7 with little fanfare >SO ANYTHING THAT GETS CUT IS A GIMMICK RIGHT >no, they're once per battle power-ups, and part of the story too >SO GEMS THEN, GEMS ARE A BATTLE GIMMICK >multiple pokemon can use gems in a battle, and they weren't flashy for the marketing either
did we play the same game where the professor studies Mega Evolution who gives you a Kanto starter and it's mega, you ascend a tower dedicated to Mega Evolution and learn about it before being given a Mega Lucario, you save an Abomasnow which also has it's mega stone, and the evil team leader and champion use a mega?
Yes, and we recognize that the majority of megas are delegated to post-game in any game that's not ORAS?
That doesn't have much to do with how mechanically speaking, Megas are nothing like the gimmicks and they aren't considered the same in any official capacity.
Plenty of Gigantamaxes or Z-Moves aren’t part of the SwSh story, so I guess they’re not gimmicks anymore either right?
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Plenty of Gigantamaxes or Z-Moves aren’t part of the SwSh story, so I guess they’re not gimmicks anymore either right?
It depends if you want to keep moving the goalpost on what gimmick means or actually forego the mental gymnastics.
Gimmicks meet the following criteria: >Created specifically for a single region's marketing cycle >Can be used in-game as a crutch for battles >Functions the same for every Pokemon that uses the gimmick, sans a couple of special snowflake cases
Tell me how Mega Evolution fits the bill? You sound as delusional as the pastgays saying PLZ-A HAS to be in the past because all of (1) Legends game did that. You have to majorly stretch to consider Megas part of the same thing with the context we have now.
More importantly: >Everyone expected new Mega Evolutions for multiple games after their introduction >No one expected Z-Moves to ever go outside of Alola
Yet there's some mass cognitive dissonance on how they treat "gimmicks" that supposedly makes Megas fit the bill. It makes zero sense. Gen 7's remake didn't have Z-Moves, Gen 8's remake didn't have Dynamax, and Gen 9's remake won't have Terastallization. Where in the FRICK did anyone get the idea that Megas were the same?
2 months ago
Anonymous
the same for every Pokemon that uses the gimmick, sans a couple of special snowflake cases
this has never been part of the definition
2 months ago
Anonymous
Megas literally fit those requirements, dumbfrick. >b-but muh furfrou can’t use it
How is being LESS accessible somehow make something less gimmicky? If anything, all the more so.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>How is being LESS accessible somehow make something less gimmicky?
Because Mega Evolution is an actual gameplay addition and not something they pushed out with an expiration date.
2 months ago
Anonymous
It literally got pushed out, it had an expiration date.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Repeat after me:
A difference that makes no difference isn’t a difference.
If Z Moves are different from the other three because no new forms stem from them, can I say they aren’t gimmicks by screeching gimmicks must have new forms? That isn’t part of the definition, and neither is the other arbitrary shit (You) come up with like third legendaries, which don’t change the gimmick-ness of a gimmick.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Congrats you added to rules to exclude megas, clearly they aren't a gimmick now.
Why the frick does the gimmick need to be a sweeping board mechanic to be a fricking gimmick.
if we're talking about gameplay gimmick, that could be literally anything.
when people talk about gimmicks in Pokemon they mean specifically the flavor of the month nuke gimmicks that they've been shitting out since Sun/Moon. That is, Z-moves, Dynamax, and Terastallization respectively.
2 months ago
Anonymous
And they started with megas, how do you not understand this.
>you can only obtain them in battle.
?
Your right, you can also a pair as a taxi service, you sure proved me wrong.
Games missing Pallet town
Games missing the first 4 tiles of Route 4
Games missing Super rod
Games missing PSS
Games missing contests
Games missing Secret bases
aieeeeeeee
Games missing Pallet town
Games missing the first 4 tiles of Route 4
Games missing Super rod
Games missing PSS
Games missing contests
Games missing Secret bases
aieeeeeeee
Games missing fire gem
Games missing hidden grottoes
Games missing Battle Frontier
Games missing Mirage island
oh nononono
Over-analysis
Ask a random person "are z-moves and mega evolutions a similar sort of mechanic" and they'll say yes
Ask someone who overthinks everything and they'll say no
I've noticed there are a lot of people in the Pokemon fandom who NEED everything similar to be a perfectly exact pattern in order to classify two things as similar. Is it patterngay brain or literal autism?
They’ve waved their battle gimmicks in front of your dumb faces from the beginning and you still try to pretend like these aren’t completely gimmick-era games through and through.
What gimmick is that in the SWSH logo? Because it sure isn't Dynamax. What about pic related?
It literally got pushed out, it had an expiration date.
>it had an expiration date.
How? Mega Evolution didn't have an expiration date any more than triples or rotation did. They were actual additions to the battle mechanics. Megas even outlasted every Pokemon being in every game.
The logo shows the gym challenge which is defined by gmax, moron.
What gimmick is that in the SWSH logo? Because it sure isn't Dynamax. What about pic related?
[...] >it had an expiration date.
How? Mega Evolution didn't have an expiration date any more than triples or rotation did. They were actual additions to the battle mechanics. Megas even outlasted every Pokemon being in every game.
Lasting long doesn’t mean it somehow isn’t a gimmick. That’s not what the word means.
The sports logo is the dynamax logo, since you could only dynamax in stadiums.
What gimmick is that in the SWSH logo? Because it sure isn't Dynamax. What about pic related?
[...] >it had an expiration date.
How? Mega Evolution didn't have an expiration date any more than triples or rotation did. They were actual additions to the battle mechanics. Megas even outlasted every Pokemon being in every game.
Holy shit why are you this fricking stubborn on it not being a gimmick that you'll it didn't get the axe.
>Holy shit why are you this fricking stubborn on it not being a gimmick
No, the burden of proof is on you morons. Mega Evolution was a mainstay, Z-Moves lived and died by Alola's marketing cycle. It really is as simple as that.
The moment they started introducing mechanics that would get the axe to distinguish the game it was in from the next is when the "gimmick" trend started. That is and always has been what people mean by "battle gimmick" because as far as GameFreak is concerned, they're mutually exclusive. Mega Evolution doesn't fit the bill no matter how you slice it; and no, your headcanon-mental gymnastics don't count.
Bro we were calling it a fricking gimmick day one when they were fricking revealed. Its a dumb super power you activate by pressing a button. Your the weirdo with the mental gymnastics lmfao
You created a literal bullet point list of what a gimmick is just to justify not calling megas one if that isn't full on olympic grade session I don't know what is.
> The moment they started introducing mechanics that would get the axe to distinguish the game it was in from the next is when the "gimmick" trend started.
No shit you fricking clown, were we supposed to be predict a cycle of gimmicks being introduced and scrapped with a precedent of one generation?
People wondered what new megas we’d get in SM until we realized that battle gimmicks were temporary marketing tools, and people never speculated what megas we’d get in Swsh or SV because Gamefreak made it clear they were not a series mainstay.
Kalosgays don’t want to be associated with the start of gimmicky nupokemon and insist that because gamefreak didnt axe it as quickly as the others that it somehow makes it incomparable to what came after when that’s not what gimjick means. It’s pretty evident that when the dexcut came along and Dynamax was classified as the Mega Evolution replacement that they’re considered to be in the same league.
Reasons Megas aren't a gimmick: >They lasted beyond the scope of a single region (Unova, Kalos, Hoenn, Alola, Kanto, Galar) >They were supported and persisted for multiple gens (new lore + mechanics in Gen 7 specifically, even more coming in Gen 9) >Unlike the actual gimmicks, their effects are uniquely tied to each and can be balanced according to feedback like how Gen 7 did with M-Alakazam's BST change and Mega Kangaskhan's rebalancing >Mega Evolutions have a dedicated category alongside regular shiny and regional forms in HOME, implying they aren't classified the same way
Reasons Megas are a gimmick: >Some Youtuber said so >Umm... They just are, okay??
>Reasons Megas aren't a gimmick: >>four arbitrary differences I noticed about them that have zero bearing on their gimmickness but I want the to feel special so I'll pretend these somehow mean they aren't gimmicks. >Reasons Megas are a gimmick: >>They're objectively gimmicks in-battle like ethe others.
This isn't hard.
Repeat after me:
A difference that makes no difference isn’t a difference.
If Z Moves are different from the other three because no new forms stem from them, can I say they aren’t gimmicks by screeching gimmicks must have new forms? That isn’t part of the definition, and neither is the other arbitrary shit (You) come up with like third legendaries, which don’t change the gimmick-ness of a gimmick.
>>>They're objectively gimmicks in-battle like ethe others.
How though?
Objectively speaking >Megas are different for every single Pokemon in-battle >You can balance once mega without blanket changing others >You CANNOT do this with any of the gimmicks
>Still a gimmick, just because its not a blanket gimmick
Well no, because there's more to it than that. The gimmicks people refer to in the Pokemon series are also ingrained into some region for the sake of "uniqueness" and for all intents and purposes aren't meant to be brought outside of that region.
If it we use gimmicktard mental gymnastics to try and redefine that, you get all sorts of other stuff like Wonder Launcher or Inverse or contests which aren't what people mean when they refer to "gimmick." The thing people take issue with is that rather than actually build on the battle system up to that point as held items, abilities, hidden abilities, and megas did, the gimmicks are all more or less the same thing with a different skin each time.
That's why they're so universally scorned, it gets tiring seeing the same exact shit with a new coat of paint just for it to get dropped for another version later. Megas don't have that problem.
That's fine, I can see people preferring megas to the shittier gimmicks but I do not agree with saying megas build upon other systems.
Its fundamentally a stat increase or rearranging and sometimes their ability changes when you press a button. Its a far cry from items which provide a customizable effect or abilities which helps keep two pokemon of the same typing feeling samey even with a stat difference.
It is leagues better than what has come after I can't argue with that point
2 months ago
Anonymous
>sometimes their ability changes when you press a button
Most of the time, which ends up completely changing the way megas play from their counterparts.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Its fundamentally a stat increase or rearranging and sometimes their ability changes
So it builds upon the ability and stat distribution system. How hard is that to admit?
You can TRY and say the same applies to the gimmicks but it doesn't work because it's still blanket increase for everything no matter what. There's no fundamental shift in strategy beyond clicking the move that's objectively more powerful.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Sableye, Gyarados, altaria, mawile/pinsir and to a lesser extent lopunny benefited a lot from their abilities before going mega
Altaria and lopunny could eat status with natural cure and limber
Sableye had priority prankster before going mega
And pinsir/mawile could prevent attack drops, pinsir even had a niche with mold breaker and moxie
Gyarados was the poster child or intimidate and moxie giving it a lot of freedom on its IVs spreads too
I think you are under selling how flexible some Pokemon became with their megas
2 months ago
Anonymous
Yes it was a good gimmick, but still a gimmick I feel like this is the different mindset we're having here. Being able to change abilities mid fight is pretty game changing, but so is being able to change what type a Pokémon is mid fight.
Its something they felt perfectly fine axing in future generations, it'll return for PLZA and then go dormant again until the remakes. Cutting abilities and items in PLA happened because it was a huge overhaul of the battle system, cutting megas was because they didn't wanna step on the toes new gimmick they were introducing.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not focusing on mid fight ability changes
I was talking about team building, choosing a core that makes a mega work or building a team around a mega and checking it's counters was the best part of the experience, the closest we had to choosing an ace
Megas were pivotal for team building to a point you could pinpoint roles and spreads on team preview if you knew the meta, heck you could even tell who was trying to make a non mega team member work just because of how they made their team
Megas and Tina lesser extent z moves gave us an incredible amount of player expression that we just couldn't find with other mechanics moving forward
An instant type change or double hp+set up for 3 turns abusing weakness policy just doesn't cut it, if anything it made a lot of things more mechanical and swingy than fun, that's the reason Megas are so fondly remembered over them
>Irrelevant argument to determining gimmick >Literately the same statement as above; can't think of multiple good arguments? >Irrelevant argument to determining a gimmick >The only good argument.
Word of advice; don't dilute your argument with nonsense. It makes it sound like you have no idea what you are talking about.
The argument for the company treats the differently is an interesting one though. If you're completely on board with "First Partner Pokemon" instead of "Starter Pokemon" and stuff like that, then yeah, that argument works. Otherwise, the decisions of the company are irrelevant.
Provided you are consistent in your logic, can't fault you for separating your favorite gimmick as a non-gimmick, for some reason.
Megas aren't a gimmick
Why? Because GF clearly realized their mistake in removing them for cringe shit like Dynashart and the ringpop helmets
They're coming back and never leaving
>They're coming back and never leaving
I don't know about never leaving. But it's clear that despite not being a gimmick they are just as prone to being left on the cutting room floor just like abilities, held items, or triples/rotation battles are.
props to the algorithm for giving you the right title.
they are only coming back bacause Kalos is coming back, but then again they never left because they are prominent in gacha shit just like all the other gimmicks are.
1. Because it’s available in more than on generation and in several spin off games
2. Unlike actual gimmicks it’s not tied to the third legendary Pokémon of the generation (see Necrozma, Eterenuas, and Terapogos)
3. It would get balancing checks with each new installment til Dexit
4. Other gens were more wide spread with it while megas were a focus that improved several Pokémon
>dude what if aerodactyl had rock spikes LMAO >dude what if sharpedo had spikes and yellow scars LMAO >dude what if ampharos had a tacky wig LMAO
mega evolutions were a mistake
>dude what if Altaria had BIG clouds? >dude what if Blastoise had BIG cannon? >dude what if Heracross had BIG horns? >dude what if Gardevoir had BIG dress? >dude what if Abomasnow had BIG fur? >dude what if Beedrill had BIG stingers? >dude what if Scizor had BIG claws? >dude what if Garchomp had BIG blades? >dude what if Manectric had BIG lightning bolt?
I can go on
Yeah, and it sucks.
For every Mega Bannette, a design that actually improves upon the base form, there’s a Mega Venusaur, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Lati Twins. Dogshit designs that are just a “make me ugly button”.
If we’re being absolutely generous, calling things like Mega Blaziken or Mega Abomasnow a good design, Megas have like a 20% success rate in having good designs.
More realistically, it’s like 10%. You have to cherry pick to try and find the good designs.
while i'm still a little salty banette didn't get an evolution, i also think mega banette is not just the coolest mega but also the best example of megas as an extension of an existing pokémon rather than a substitute for an evolution. mega banette is working with the existing ideas behind banette and amplifies what was already cool about it. if banette had an actual evolution it would necessarily have to take the design in a different direction or else it wouldn't have its own identity, but mega banette doesn't have this problem and it's BECAUSE it's still banette. it's maybe the best argument for megas being something separate from evolutions.
That's what I like about megas. An extension of what made the original Pokémon special that's reserved entirely for battles. The original Pokémon you like is still there when you're done battling. I disagree with people when they say the concept is creatively bankrupt because of how well it balances the original and new and is only limited due to the constant expansion of the Pokedex. I also don't mind one or two stage Pokémon in general, so there's that too
Megas weren't inherently a gimmick, Game Freak just retroactively chose to make it one by replacing them with z moves in the next gen and phasing them out completely afterwards
If megas came out today most of the stones would be generic rocks that work with every pokemon and boost stats by a preset amount and maybe give you a different ability
Gimmick Mons have been around for every generation. Eevee, Unown, Castform, Wormadam, Sawsbuck, Vivillion, Minior, Eiscue, Palafin, etc.
The main difference is that they get a specific spot and number in thepokedex, where as true gimmicks like Megas do not.
>where as true gimmicks like Megas
I don't understand what you mean by this. Castform's forms don't have dex number, nor do any of the others you mentioned.
And aside from that, there's nothing from the actual gimmicks that would necessitate them needing numbers either. You realize that coming up with your own arbitrary definition that fits your headcanon doesn't necessarily reflect reality, right?
Okay but when people refer to "the gimmicks" in Pokemon they don't mean Castform Sun or Mega Beedrill. They mean specifically the battle gimmicks they started doing to make each game "unique."
"Gimmicky" forms have nothing to do with it. The contemporary meaning for gimmick is and has always been precisely Z-moves and its subsequent iterations.
>The contemporary meaning for gimmick is and has always been precisely Mega Evolutions and its subsequent iterations.
Fixed that for you. Just because it's your favorite one, doesn't make it any different than Dynamax or Tera.
Though, technically, you could include Wonder Launcher in that list too. Bit more of a gray area, because unlike Mega and onwards, you could play all of Gen 5 without knowing it exists. But mechanically, it's in the same boat as the rest of the gimmicks.
2 months ago
Anonymous
There you go moving the goalpost again to try and fit your very contrived and specific inclination to fit megas into the mix.
No, the Wonder Launcher and Mega Evolution are not gimmicks. They're not even on the same plane.
Yes the Wonder Launcher didn't make it past Gen 5, but there wasn't an expiration date on it when they decided to put it in the game to begin with.
Same thing with megas, but there's even less reason to consider them because like any other mechanic they've been a part of the series for-fricking-ever now and were absent from fewer games they've been included in no differently than abilities or held items.
2 months ago
Anonymous
If you wanted to separate one of the gimmicks, wouldn't it make most sense to separate Z-Moves from Dyna/Mega/Tera? That one doesn't alter the pokemon in anyway, and Mega was still a gimmick at that point.
That might be a good way to go about it. Call them transformation gimmicks, and have Z-Moves be the oddball out.
>Gimmick
You press a specific separate button on the move UI to trigger it. In the Sword prototype they used the assets that trigger Mega Evolution to trigger Gigantamax. It's functionally exactly the same, even Gen 7 uses the same way to trigger both Z-moves and Megas. It's all mechanically identical. Are items not items because sometimes Pokemon can't hold them in battle?
something about not being available to the majority of the mons, which i think is fricking moronic
This, Pure power and intimidate arent avilable for majority of mons so they are a battle gimmick.
I don't see how it matters, it's a shit mechanic either way just like gems and the phys/spec split
I've never heard anybody have this opinion, but they were bashed in the head by a horse as children.
Bait
I've never heard anybody have this opinion, but they were bashed in the head by a horse as children.
Like this guy whose butt hurt about a single use hold item and making elemental punches actually physical attacks
The Special Stat Split was even worse thoughever.
Because they’re morons
Because "some people" are yawngay
I still don't know what a yawngay is
https://arch.b4k.co/vp/search/text/pointlessly/
It's a fun gimmick
Only real argument for it not being considered a battle gimmick like the Z-Moves, Dynamax, and Tera is that it is the only one that appeared in more than generation. In my opinion that suggests that it was originally intended to be just a new mechanic introduced, similar to how abilities were introduced in Gen 3 and then persisted afterward, but in practice Mega Evolutions are pretty similar to the other gimmicks, so it may as well be considered one.
Maybe but unlike the other gimmicks mega-evos are limted to only a few mons. This has the effect of making it feel special. Anything can hold a z-crystal, anything can dynamax and anything can tera but only a few mons get to mega evolve. Sure, a few mons get special z-attacks or a special giant form but that's just adding a twist to the gimmick that every mon already gets.
it's only like 3 people who hate that Kalos is associated with the slipping of Pokemons quality
I think most people do consider it a battle gimmick? But when they were introduced it seemed like they were going to be a mainstay mechanic, it's only in retrospect after z moves, dynamax etc that we can look back and see it as the one-off gimmick it was (well, two-off). So they had a different first impression that might've stuck with people.
It's the most recurring one since it shows up in three regions and has appeared in multiple spinoffs since being introduced. Compared to the other gimmicks, it feels the most like it was intended to stick around and be a main thing.
Idk but I wish they would ere just regular evolutions. Like yeah have some kind of cost required to do it but I hate the whole transition part.
>Mega evolution
Garbage
>Z moves
Garbage
>Dynamax
Garbage
>Tera
Garbage
>Z moves
Frick you, I liked it.
Based and objectively correct
Also true
Only real argument for it to be considered a battle gimmick is that it's typically associated with Kalos and that it conveniently took a Kalos game for them to bring it back. In practice, they are nothing like the actual battle gimmicks because mechanically their function is on an entirely different scope and effect for its usage, how its distributed amongst Pokemon, and whether or not you might want to use it at all over the actual buffs XY gave Pokes outside of the Mega Evolution bubble.
gf doesn't consider it a gimmick so it isn't a gimmick. technically speaking they are far more similar to regional forms and that's how they're categorized officially.
Mega evolution isnt even a game changing mechanic it just makes a few shitmons actually stronger
Aah yes shitmons like scizor, garchomp and mewtwo
He meant shillmons.
Audino, the famed shillmon
Literally the only gen 5 mon gamefreak feels comfortable shilling.
You what
>he says, in the generation where amoonguss, volcarona, hydreigon, and the swords of justice got special snowflake forms
>and volcarona even got TWO
NTA, but all of those mons are only popular because of comp homosexualry (the least organic form of popularity).
UNOVAAAA pokemon were given an entire region too themselves, Oshawott was a legends starter, and Samurott even got the only Hisain form that wasn't intentionally crippled in some way.
also this
The only caveat is that Unova only got 2 super saiyan transformations (the objectively best kind of form because those directly elevate the pokemon that get them). However, as a whole Unova Pokemon were already designed to succeed, they don't need help from powercreep because they ARE the power creep.
It's iteraly the opposite of how they treat Johto. The only region that Game Freak shills more than Unova are Hoenn and KANTOOOOOOO.
I hate the shillmon shit going on here. No marketing was needed for me to enjoy the mega evolutions that they chose to distribute. Almost every single one of them was a was popular due to design or iconic purposes like Aerodactyl as the most major gen 1 fossil. Other than those reasons the other condition was that they were already ready to breach into something more intricate based on where they were at in their evolutionary stage.
It makes no sense for some dumpster fire hick backwater Pokémon to gain a mega evolution because they’re basic b***h and as a species just not at that level of ascension. Nobody cares about mega parasect.
If you’re a minority who don’t like the pool of Pokémon they chose just because people tend to like them more than average - you’re the minority and therefore you’re the autistic c**t trying to be a contrarion. Just because you like to eat literal steaming human shit straight from a gaping pink sock doesn’t mean that everyone else has bad taste. (Aimed at nobody in particular, just the crygays who always moan about the made up category of shillmon)
>shillmon are great because i like them
Sheep
mega garchomp is arguably worse than normal chomp and you’re sacrificing your mega slot, you didnt play the game. and legendaries dont count unless VGC allows them for a season which led to primal spam and every team being the same
I don't even think it's arguable. Mega Gar is worse. It just doesn't perform good enough to merit wasting your mega evo on it.
mega chomp came into its own towards the end of gen 7, people realized mixed sets were actually pretty damn strong and made it one of the best stealth rock users around since there wasn't a defogger in the game that could take it on. having both your attacking stats at nearly 400 was wild.
definitely still a sidegrade mega though, as it should be for something with that much BST. looking at you, mega mence.
I’m still livid that Salamence and Metagross got Megas when they didn’t need them, with the former taking away Mega Pinsir’s niche and consigning it to oblivion. Would have rather had Mega Flygon and Mega Butterfree or Ledian instead.
>mega garchomp is arguably worse than normal chomp and you’re sacrificing your mega slot, you didnt play the game.
if anything this goes against your argument that it is making shitmons stronger.
it makes shitmons stronger like Mawile and it makes shillmons worse like Garchomp so its a good feature
The worst part of megas is giving them to single stage shitmon. Just let it be a real evolution at that point.
Does it matter? Megachads won
They WILL return and NOBODY can stop them
I have yet to meet anyone IRL that calls it a gimmick
If anything they consider it integral to the Pokemon it was given to
I think the marketing push they got did them a lot of good in the eyes of the masses given how well liked they are
The people that hate on megas online are just seething because their favorites didn't get one.
>my favorite is tyranitar
>still hate megas because I’m not a moron
what now?
>favorite is tyranitar
>claims he isn't moronic
lol
>moving goalposts
glad to see megatards don’t have an argument like usual.
The other anon beat me to it. You probably compare it to Godzilla too.
Man most megas look like trash, hate what they did with aerodactyl.
>you just hate it because its moronic distribution doesn't pander to you!
Cope. Z-A will be (technically) the first without my favorite and that doesn't mean I'm rooting for it to be the worst game in the franchise.
/thread
I hate them because they made my favorite look stupid.
He's not even the worst offender either. I feel real bad for, like, Rayquaza, Swampert, Latios, or Slowbro fans. They got absolutely butchered when mega evolving.
i love heracross and i hate its mega evolution
>Why do some people not consider Mega Evolution a battle gimmick?
Why is it that some people do? The ones everyone compares it to (Z-Moves, Dynamax, Tera) were never iterated on for a single, full gen. Meanwhile megas got game changing enhancements the gen after in gen 7 which the speed mechanic.
I also don't see any "Gigantamax Form" category here.
>Why is it that some people do?
Contrarianism.
Almost all of the megas were a drastic visual improvement to their normal forms. For normal people, that's pretty much enough for mega evolution to win them over.
No kys
>Chuck
>image is clearly Sneed
Well this April Fools already fricking sucks
That's why you don't have friends.
sneed is the old guy actually running the store, dipshit.
that's farmer 2.
Reddit loved megas so they are immune to criticism
>the mega gimmick can only be used in battle
gee i wonder why they use that term, moronic homosexual.
even shadow pokemon have more points on their favor to not be called a battle gimmick.
What's funny is Alakazam is objectively much better gens 4 onwards
What item do i give my Alakazam in gen 3?
>What's funny is Alakazam is objectively much better gens 4 onwards
lmao absolutely not. Good fricking luck using Alakazam in gen 4+ when they decided to go full moron and add Sucker Punch and a frickton of physical Dark moves to the game.
> What item do i give my Alakazam in gen 3?
Choice Band.
>Good fricking luck using Alakazam in gen 4+ when they decided to go full moron and add Sucker Punch and a frickton of physical Dark moves to the game
You already had this problem with ghost moves THOUGH
>Choice Band
LMAO
Thanks for proving my point
>campaignshitter
stop trying to force this shitty meme term, homosexual
Nah, it’s an accurate term.
>No because the vast majority of ghost move users don’t have STAB on it
You're still not living one, and the lack of priority doesn't matter either since unboosted Alakazam will struggle to OHKO things
>What point?
That gen 3 Alakazam has no item
>campaignshitter
what
I still consider it a gimmick, but I can see why some people wouldn't. Mega Evolutions were a pretty substantial change that fundamentally changed the series by adding temporary evolutions to some mons, while every other new gimmick is pretty superficial with some lore added to make it seem deeper than it actually is
>reddit spacing
>choice band alakazam
>muh pvp
Weak bait
>Yes I am
lmao no. Hell it doesn't even have to be SE. Stab EQ OHKOs Alakazam
>Then boost first
And how do i do that? Especially if i have to trick a choice band first, meaning i can't freely pick who i'm putting Alakazam against and have to run both trick and calm mind, so i only have two slots left for offensive moves, so psychic and uh man i sure hope Alakazam has anything that can hit dark or psychic super effectively in gen 3... oh. Well i'll just use fire punch! Opponent sent out Sharpedo/Slowbro! Well fug
>Choice Band is an item
It's a shit item that limits Alakazam more than anything and costs a move slot, fricking leftovers or shell belll are better items on it, that's how bad Alakazam's gen 3 item pool is
>It’s the thing that you are. You [HEADCANON]
Interesting!
>opponent sends out sharpedo
>don’t die because I already have a calm mind boost and sharpedo can’t use any physical dark moves against me
damn I love playing games that are actually well balanced instead of gen 4 phys/spec split slop
>Damn, gen 4 removed STAB EQ?
No, but it made Alakazam strong enough to outspeed and OHKO before getting hit by one
>Have you tried clicking Calm Mind
And then get hit
>You don’t need to hit them super effectively
Except when their other type can resist my coverage, you fricking moron. Also neutral elemental punches from Alakazam won't kill shit even at +1
>Maybe if you’re bad at using it
I'm not the one giving it to a fast special attacker.
>Implying Alakazam is taking a slash from Sharpedo
Weren't you the one telling me to stop obsessing over super effective moves?
Expanded upon in later generations with their own walking/running animations and dex entries. Presence in Kanto, Hoenn, Kalos, and Alola and even appeared in the early SwSh title screen
It’s the only one that lasted for multiple games, different Regions
SwSh is what set the trend of every game removing the old battle mechanics
you could argue lets go with zmoves but even then megas were still in which helped feed into the belief these were going to be a permanent thing
>false equivalency
Z-Moves were the ones that were never going to leave Alola. There was no implication Mega Evolutions were the same. There still isn't any.
Just looked up the definition of a gimmick. I missed the part that mentions something lasting slightly longer somehow means it isn't a gimmick.
I just looked up the definition of gimmick, I missed the part where we were randomly putting actual mechanics in the definition among the regional marketing schlock somehow makes it a gimmick.
same here, this looks like Mega Evolution to me
this really should close the book on the debate, if i read this without the context of it being the definition of the word gimmick i'd have said someone wrote it to describe mega evolution specifically.
I like this definition because you can apply BW's limited regional dex to it and it fits perfectly
so true
>campaignshitter
oh, like people who actually play the game instead of endlessly punching numbers into the smogon calculator?
i reckon it's an effort by kalosperms to distance themselves from the rest of the nugen shit
it's bait and people do it because it's impossible to not respond to something so obviously stupid and wrong
mega evolution is balanced mechanic that sacrifices an item slot and team preview makes it predictable so that players can plan around fighting a potential mega.
>inb4 what about mega mewtwo and mega fug
legendaries dont count and are banned from most competitive tournaments anyways. and whenever VGC has no restrictions its a legendary shitshow anyways
Mega evolution should never have been given to mons over 500 bst
Gimmick mechanics like Megas/Z moves/Dyna/Tera are gimmicks because they only show up in a few games. Usually limited to one gen.
Baseline mechanics are something that show up in every single game that comes out after it was introduced. Held Items/Abilities, shit like that.
I think mega is a neat idea. I just think alot more pokemon should have got them and some of the Megas should of just been outright evolutions. Mons like Aerodactyl or Abomasnow. ALL of the starters should have got Megas.
Z Moves are still better and should be a baseline mechanic in every single game.
> Gimmick mechanics like Megas/Z moves/Dyna/Tera are gimmicks because they only show up in a few games. Usually limited to one gen.
Yep. Examples of gimmicks include:
Gems
Triple Battles
Rotation Battles
Isn’t the normal gem still present in the games? I haven’t played since Sun so I don’t know if they removed it or not.
The biggest argument megagays have is "i-it was in multiple generations!" despite the fact that megas have no prevalence in Alola whatsoever and are literally just shoved in the Battle Tree.
The only reason they lasted into Alola was because Gamefreak didn't have the balls to cut anything yet, but they were clearly done with the mechanic.
>headcanon
>fanfic
>headcanon
epic post bro
woah…I don’t remember the battle tree looking like this…
>The biggest argument doublesgays have is "i-it was in multiple generations!" despite the fact that double battles have no prevalence in Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, etc whatsoever and are literally just shoved in the Battle Factilities.
moron
doubles do have prevalence in Sinnoh because the stat trainers exist and you go through entire areas in nothing but doubles.
Same is true for Black & White with double grass, & escorting Cheren in Pinwheel forest in B2W2.
I kind of forget where Gen 6 uses double battles
The totem pokemon & SOS calling use doubles against you.
Doubles has always been there since it's been introduced.
While Megas were in gen 7,did it get any new forms? Megas were also you know, cut from the games entirely since gen 8 up until when ever PLZA comes out.
how do I do double battles in PLA?
You don't get to use two at the same time, but you sure an the hell fight multiple.
dunno, how do i mega evolve?
do you people think saying pedantic shit like this is some kind of gotcha? nitpicking stupid shit like a singular exception to a general trend just to dodge the point doesn't win arguments, it just makes you look like a jackass
>nitpicking stupid shit like a singular exception to a general trend
Megas have been in every gen since they were added except 8
therefore you're nitpicking a singular exception to a general trend
Games missing Megas.
Sword/Shield, LGPE, BDSP, PLA, and S/V
Games missing Doubles.
PLA, kinda.
This is how they all are. People acted the same when Pluto became a dwarf planet.
>Planets are spherical
>SO PLUTO IS A PLANET RIGHT
>no, it also has to be above a certain mass
>SO THE SUN IS A PLANET
>no, it doesn't orbit a star, another criteria
>BUT IT ORBITS STARS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GALAXY
>it's not actually orbiting them but rather black hole, moron
They're not actually arguing except for the sake of arguing. Ignore them.
to be entirely fair the new definition of planet is dumb as frick, the "must clear its orbit of debris" rule is incredibly tacked on and the distinction only exists so that there aren't a ton of planets in the solar system. it's really arbitrary and pointless from any standpoint other than the ease of teaching literal children about space. if a body is massive enough to be spherical under its own gravity but not massive enough to undergo nuclear fusion at its core it should be considered a planet, there's not a good reason dwarf planets and large moons shouldn't also be considered planets when they're essentially the same types of objects as planets.
i get what you mean though, about arguing with stupid people.
>if its something that's been cut in swsh it means it was a gimmick even if comes back later
sure go ahead and call half of the pokedex a gimmick then when dexit happened. I guess furfrou is just a gimmick too
But Pokemon are the main selling point of Pokemon. Gimmicks are supplementary to them in a cheap way.
The dex cut is a whole other issue.
You can just admit you have no argument.
They aren't a major part of Alola's story, bug they are expanded upon with new dex entries, new animations for walking/running (hinting at expanded usage of them) and changes to their speed priority in battles. All aspects that indicate a desire to expand further with the mechanic.
>but they were clearly done with the mechanic.
Is that why they put Megas in Gen 7's remake?
>b-b-but it was a GO cashgrab!
Why put them in a GO cashgrab then? GO didn't even have megas. Even in retrospect where GO DOES have megas and they're highly relevant, there's zero indication they're going to put the "other" gimmicks in anyway.
On top of that, Megas have a dedicated category in the National Dex along with shinies and regional forms. Gigantamax forms do not. What gives?
>gigantamax
Unlike megas, you can miss registering gigantamax. That's why it doesn't have it's own category. I didn't had a switch during Gen 8 but got it during Gen 9. I register Venusaur from Gen 9 and even though Gen 9 doesn't have megas, it still got the mega register, but not the g-max form.
XYgotes can cry all they want, but even the devs explicitly say that Dynamax REPLACED Megas. They're viewed as one and the same because they serve the same purpose: Shilling new temporary in-battle shit Fromm a new "phenomenon"for marketing purposes.
Games missing fire gem
Games missing hidden grottoes
Games missing Battle Frontier
Games missing Mirage island
oh nononono
those don't count as gimmicks because they're from games I like
>post missing argument
>post missing proper greentext
oh nononono
>Battle gimmicks exist for marketing and pander to old mons
>SO CROSSGENS AND LEGENDARIES ARE BATTLE GIMMICKS
>no, they're permanent features, gimmicks get cut and replaced
>IT WAS AROUND FOR MORE THAN ONE GEN IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PERMANENT
>they were still cut and completely tacked on in gen 7 with little fanfare
>SO ANYTHING THAT GETS CUT IS A GIMMICK RIGHT
>no, they're once per battle power-ups, and part of the story too
>SO GEMS THEN, GEMS ARE A BATTLE GIMMICK
>multiple pokemon can use gems in a battle, and they weren't flashy for the marketing either
>no, they're permanent features,
Please tell me how I can use Dialga in LGPE
>>no, they're once per battle power-ups, and part of the story too
So, in other words, Z-Moves, Dynamax/Gigantamax, and Terastal.
did we play the same game where the professor studies Mega Evolution who gives you a Kanto starter and it's mega, you ascend a tower dedicated to Mega Evolution and learn about it before being given a Mega Lucario, you save an Abomasnow which also has it's mega stone, and the evil team leader and champion use a mega?
Yes, and we recognize that the majority of megas are delegated to post-game in any game that's not ORAS?
That doesn't have much to do with how mechanically speaking, Megas are nothing like the gimmicks and they aren't considered the same in any official capacity.
Plenty of Gigantamaxes or Z-Moves aren’t part of the SwSh story, so I guess they’re not gimmicks anymore either right?
>Plenty of Gigantamaxes or Z-Moves aren’t part of the SwSh story, so I guess they’re not gimmicks anymore either right?
It depends if you want to keep moving the goalpost on what gimmick means or actually forego the mental gymnastics.
Gimmicks meet the following criteria:
>Created specifically for a single region's marketing cycle
>Can be used in-game as a crutch for battles
>Functions the same for every Pokemon that uses the gimmick, sans a couple of special snowflake cases
Tell me how Mega Evolution fits the bill? You sound as delusional as the pastgays saying PLZ-A HAS to be in the past because all of (1) Legends game did that. You have to majorly stretch to consider Megas part of the same thing with the context we have now.
More importantly:
>Everyone expected new Mega Evolutions for multiple games after their introduction
>No one expected Z-Moves to ever go outside of Alola
Yet there's some mass cognitive dissonance on how they treat "gimmicks" that supposedly makes Megas fit the bill. It makes zero sense. Gen 7's remake didn't have Z-Moves, Gen 8's remake didn't have Dynamax, and Gen 9's remake won't have Terastallization. Where in the FRICK did anyone get the idea that Megas were the same?
the same for every Pokemon that uses the gimmick, sans a couple of special snowflake cases
this has never been part of the definition
Megas literally fit those requirements, dumbfrick.
>b-but muh furfrou can’t use it
How is being LESS accessible somehow make something less gimmicky? If anything, all the more so.
>How is being LESS accessible somehow make something less gimmicky?
Because Mega Evolution is an actual gameplay addition and not something they pushed out with an expiration date.
It literally got pushed out, it had an expiration date.
Repeat after me:
A difference that makes no difference isn’t a difference.
If Z Moves are different from the other three because no new forms stem from them, can I say they aren’t gimmicks by screeching gimmicks must have new forms? That isn’t part of the definition, and neither is the other arbitrary shit (You) come up with like third legendaries, which don’t change the gimmick-ness of a gimmick.
Congrats you added to rules to exclude megas, clearly they aren't a gimmick now.
Why the frick does the gimmick need to be a sweeping board mechanic to be a fricking gimmick.
Is gems being a gimmick a real argument or is it just one schizo its hard to tell sometimes. They just were berries reskinned.
A Pokémon isn't a gameplay gimmick, that's a whole different argument.
it's just one schizo
>A Pokémon isn't a gameplay gimmick
Neither are Megas then.
It is a gameplay gimmick, you can only obtain them in battle.
>you can only obtain them in battle.
?
if we're talking about gameplay gimmick, that could be literally anything.
when people talk about gimmicks in Pokemon they mean specifically the flavor of the month nuke gimmicks that they've been shitting out since Sun/Moon. That is, Z-moves, Dynamax, and Terastallization respectively.
And they started with megas, how do you not understand this.
Your right, you can also a pair as a taxi service, you sure proved me wrong.
that's not what "respectively" means you dolt
?
And you probably would be able use any of the other gimmicks in contests cause they're just a gimmicky form of battle!
People just because you like the gimmick doesn't mean its not a gimmick, I'm sorry to say.
I’m glad you agree legendaries are a gimmick regardless of you liking them.
I genuinely do not thing you know what the word gimmick means holy shit.
>a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business.
Sounds like legendaries.
Yeah your actually moronic lmfao.
Games missing Pallet town
Games missing the first 4 tiles of Route 4
Games missing Super rod
Games missing PSS
Games missing contests
Games missing Secret bases
aieeeeeeee
see
Anyways, none of these even fit all the same criteria.
is it just me or has yawntroon been unraveling since ZA's announcement?
Kalosgays are coping in advance because they know there region needs fixing.
Games without Zubat
Games without Berserk Gene
Games without third versions
Games without Link cable
we need to go back...
Not an argument
neither is listing a bunch of dumbass unrelated shit lmao
yeah megas are unrelated to gimmicks glad we agree
>pallet town isnt a gimmick so megas aren't a gimmick
>i am very smart
Over-analysis
Ask a random person "are z-moves and mega evolutions a similar sort of mechanic" and they'll say yes
Ask someone who overthinks everything and they'll say no
I've noticed there are a lot of people in the Pokemon fandom who NEED everything similar to be a perfectly exact pattern in order to classify two things as similar. Is it patterngay brain or literal autism?
>Is it patterngay brain or literal autism?
what's the difference?
>patterngay brain or literal autism
Somebody tell him the news
the definition of gimmick is a big button in battle you can press to give your pokemon super powers, which megas fit to a t
/thread
>super powers
>turns them worse
kek megachads win again
Still a superpower.
They’ve waved their battle gimmicks in front of your dumb faces from the beginning and you still try to pretend like these aren’t completely gimmick-era games through and through.
What gimmick is that in the SWSH logo? Because it sure isn't Dynamax. What about pic related?
>it had an expiration date.
How? Mega Evolution didn't have an expiration date any more than triples or rotation did. They were actual additions to the battle mechanics. Megas even outlasted every Pokemon being in every game.
Thank you for proving that Dynamax isn't a gimmick. Another win for swshGODS! Kalosperm and Alolasome can suck it.
The logo shows the gym challenge which is defined by gmax, moron.
Lasting long doesn’t mean it somehow isn’t a gimmick. That’s not what the word means.
The sports logo is the dynamax logo, since you could only dynamax in stadiums.
Holy shit why are you this fricking stubborn on it not being a gimmick that you'll it didn't get the axe.
>Holy shit why are you this fricking stubborn on it not being a gimmick
No, the burden of proof is on you morons. Mega Evolution was a mainstay, Z-Moves lived and died by Alola's marketing cycle. It really is as simple as that.
The moment they started introducing mechanics that would get the axe to distinguish the game it was in from the next is when the "gimmick" trend started. That is and always has been what people mean by "battle gimmick" because as far as GameFreak is concerned, they're mutually exclusive. Mega Evolution doesn't fit the bill no matter how you slice it; and no, your headcanon-mental gymnastics don't count.
Bro we were calling it a fricking gimmick day one when they were fricking revealed. Its a dumb super power you activate by pressing a button. Your the weirdo with the mental gymnastics lmfao
You created a literal bullet point list of what a gimmick is just to justify not calling megas one if that isn't full on olympic grade session I don't know what is.
> The moment they started introducing mechanics that would get the axe to distinguish the game it was in from the next is when the "gimmick" trend started.
No shit you fricking clown, were we supposed to be predict a cycle of gimmicks being introduced and scrapped with a precedent of one generation?
People wondered what new megas we’d get in SM until we realized that battle gimmicks were temporary marketing tools, and people never speculated what megas we’d get in Swsh or SV because Gamefreak made it clear they were not a series mainstay.
Kalosgays don’t want to be associated with the start of gimmicky nupokemon and insist that because gamefreak didnt axe it as quickly as the others that it somehow makes it incomparable to what came after when that’s not what gimjick means. It’s pretty evident that when the dexcut came along and Dynamax was classified as the Mega Evolution replacement that they’re considered to be in the same league.
stop feeding the troll
There's no way that one is a troll, way too salty and dedicated to the bit.
Reasons Megas aren't a gimmick:
>They lasted beyond the scope of a single region (Unova, Kalos, Hoenn, Alola, Kanto, Galar)
>They were supported and persisted for multiple gens (new lore + mechanics in Gen 7 specifically, even more coming in Gen 9)
>Unlike the actual gimmicks, their effects are uniquely tied to each and can be balanced according to feedback like how Gen 7 did with M-Alakazam's BST change and Mega Kangaskhan's rebalancing
>Mega Evolutions have a dedicated category alongside regular shiny and regional forms in HOME, implying they aren't classified the same way
Reasons Megas are a gimmick:
>Some Youtuber said so
>Umm... They just are, okay??
>Reasons Megas aren't a gimmick:
>>four arbitrary differences I noticed about them that have zero bearing on their gimmickness but I want the to feel special so I'll pretend these somehow mean they aren't gimmicks.
>Reasons Megas are a gimmick:
>>They're objectively gimmicks in-battle like ethe others.
This isn't hard.
>>>They're objectively gimmicks in-battle like ethe others.
How though?
Objectively speaking
>Megas are different for every single Pokemon in-battle
>You can balance once mega without blanket changing others
>You CANNOT do this with any of the gimmicks
Wow you can better balance them, fantastic!
Still a gimmick, just because its not a blanket gimmick doesn't make it any less a gimmick.
>Still a gimmick, just because its not a blanket gimmick
Well no, because there's more to it than that. The gimmicks people refer to in the Pokemon series are also ingrained into some region for the sake of "uniqueness" and for all intents and purposes aren't meant to be brought outside of that region.
If it we use gimmicktard mental gymnastics to try and redefine that, you get all sorts of other stuff like Wonder Launcher or Inverse or contests which aren't what people mean when they refer to "gimmick." The thing people take issue with is that rather than actually build on the battle system up to that point as held items, abilities, hidden abilities, and megas did, the gimmicks are all more or less the same thing with a different skin each time.
That's why they're so universally scorned, it gets tiring seeing the same exact shit with a new coat of paint just for it to get dropped for another version later. Megas don't have that problem.
That's fine, I can see people preferring megas to the shittier gimmicks but I do not agree with saying megas build upon other systems.
Its fundamentally a stat increase or rearranging and sometimes their ability changes when you press a button. Its a far cry from items which provide a customizable effect or abilities which helps keep two pokemon of the same typing feeling samey even with a stat difference.
It is leagues better than what has come after I can't argue with that point
>sometimes their ability changes when you press a button
Most of the time, which ends up completely changing the way megas play from their counterparts.
>Its fundamentally a stat increase or rearranging and sometimes their ability changes
So it builds upon the ability and stat distribution system. How hard is that to admit?
You can TRY and say the same applies to the gimmicks but it doesn't work because it's still blanket increase for everything no matter what. There's no fundamental shift in strategy beyond clicking the move that's objectively more powerful.
Sableye, Gyarados, altaria, mawile/pinsir and to a lesser extent lopunny benefited a lot from their abilities before going mega
Altaria and lopunny could eat status with natural cure and limber
Sableye had priority prankster before going mega
And pinsir/mawile could prevent attack drops, pinsir even had a niche with mold breaker and moxie
Gyarados was the poster child or intimidate and moxie giving it a lot of freedom on its IVs spreads too
I think you are under selling how flexible some Pokemon became with their megas
Yes it was a good gimmick, but still a gimmick I feel like this is the different mindset we're having here. Being able to change abilities mid fight is pretty game changing, but so is being able to change what type a Pokémon is mid fight.
Its something they felt perfectly fine axing in future generations, it'll return for PLZA and then go dormant again until the remakes. Cutting abilities and items in PLA happened because it was a huge overhaul of the battle system, cutting megas was because they didn't wanna step on the toes new gimmick they were introducing.
I'm not focusing on mid fight ability changes
I was talking about team building, choosing a core that makes a mega work or building a team around a mega and checking it's counters was the best part of the experience, the closest we had to choosing an ace
Megas were pivotal for team building to a point you could pinpoint roles and spreads on team preview if you knew the meta, heck you could even tell who was trying to make a non mega team member work just because of how they made their team
Megas and Tina lesser extent z moves gave us an incredible amount of player expression that we just couldn't find with other mechanics moving forward
An instant type change or double hp+set up for 3 turns abusing weakness policy just doesn't cut it, if anything it made a lot of things more mechanical and swingy than fun, that's the reason Megas are so fondly remembered over them
>Irrelevant argument to determining gimmick
>Literately the same statement as above; can't think of multiple good arguments?
>Irrelevant argument to determining a gimmick
>The only good argument.
Word of advice; don't dilute your argument with nonsense. It makes it sound like you have no idea what you are talking about.
The argument for the company treats the differently is an interesting one though. If you're completely on board with "First Partner Pokemon" instead of "Starter Pokemon" and stuff like that, then yeah, that argument works. Otherwise, the decisions of the company are irrelevant.
Provided you are consistent in your logic, can't fault you for separating your favorite gimmick as a non-gimmick, for some reason.
I wouldnt call it getting updates that replaced it making it a shallow selling point honestly
Megas aren't a gimmick
Why? Because GF clearly realized their mistake in removing them for cringe shit like Dynashart and the ringpop helmets
They're coming back and never leaving
>They're coming back and never leaving
I don't know about never leaving. But it's clear that despite not being a gimmick they are just as prone to being left on the cutting room floor just like abilities, held items, or triples/rotation battles are.
props to the algorithm for giving you the right title.
they are only coming back bacause Kalos is coming back, but then again they never left because they are prominent in gacha shit just like all the other gimmicks are.
Who cares? They're objectively the best feature added since Abilities, which is why they've come back before flops like "Rotation Battle."
1. Because it’s available in more than on generation and in several spin off games
2. Unlike actual gimmicks it’s not tied to the third legendary Pokémon of the generation (see Necrozma, Eterenuas, and Terapogos)
3. It would get balancing checks with each new installment til Dexit
4. Other gens were more wide spread with it while megas were a focus that improved several Pokémon
>dude what if aerodactyl had rock spikes LMAO
>dude what if sharpedo had spikes and yellow scars LMAO
>dude what if ampharos had a tacky wig LMAO
mega evolutions were a mistake
indeed
Ah yes, cherry picking. My favorite past time.
>dude what if Altaria had BIG clouds?
>dude what if Blastoise had BIG cannon?
>dude what if Heracross had BIG horns?
>dude what if Gardevoir had BIG dress?
>dude what if Abomasnow had BIG fur?
>dude what if Beedrill had BIG stingers?
>dude what if Scizor had BIG claws?
>dude what if Garchomp had BIG blades?
>dude what if Manectric had BIG lightning bolt?
I can go on
congratulations on learning that mega means the same thing but more
Yeah, and it sucks.
For every Mega Bannette, a design that actually improves upon the base form, there’s a Mega Venusaur, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Lati Twins. Dogshit designs that are just a “make me ugly button”.
If we’re being absolutely generous, calling things like Mega Blaziken or Mega Abomasnow a good design, Megas have like a 20% success rate in having good designs.
More realistically, it’s like 10%. You have to cherry pick to try and find the good designs.
I miss Hidden Power
Some shitmons like banette or absol should have their mega as their actual evolution
while i'm still a little salty banette didn't get an evolution, i also think mega banette is not just the coolest mega but also the best example of megas as an extension of an existing pokémon rather than a substitute for an evolution. mega banette is working with the existing ideas behind banette and amplifies what was already cool about it. if banette had an actual evolution it would necessarily have to take the design in a different direction or else it wouldn't have its own identity, but mega banette doesn't have this problem and it's BECAUSE it's still banette. it's maybe the best argument for megas being something separate from evolutions.
That's what I like about megas. An extension of what made the original Pokémon special that's reserved entirely for battles. The original Pokémon you like is still there when you're done battling. I disagree with people when they say the concept is creatively bankrupt because of how well it balances the original and new and is only limited due to the constant expansion of the Pokedex. I also don't mind one or two stage Pokémon in general, so there's that too
>What is Bulbasaur was BIGGER?
>What if Squirtle was BIGGER?
>What if Charmander was BIGGER?
Megas weren't inherently a gimmick, Game Freak just retroactively chose to make it one by replacing them with z moves in the next gen and phasing them out completely afterwards
If megas came out today most of the stones would be generic rocks that work with every pokemon and boost stats by a preset amount and maybe give you a different ability
Eevee is a gimmick and it's still around, and has been around since day 1. Thoughts?
Gimmick Mons have been around for every generation. Eevee, Unown, Castform, Wormadam, Sawsbuck, Vivillion, Minior, Eiscue, Palafin, etc.
The main difference is that they get a specific spot and number in thepokedex, where as true gimmicks like Megas do not.
>where as true gimmicks like Megas
I don't understand what you mean by this. Castform's forms don't have dex number, nor do any of the others you mentioned.
And aside from that, there's nothing from the actual gimmicks that would necessitate them needing numbers either. You realize that coming up with your own arbitrary definition that fits your headcanon doesn't necessarily reflect reality, right?
There you go, now you're getting the hang of it!
>Castform: A gimmicky idea, but a true pokemon
>Castform Sun: A gimmick
>Beedrill: A regular Pokemon
>Mega Beedrill: A gimmick
No that hard to understand
Okay but when people refer to "the gimmicks" in Pokemon they don't mean Castform Sun or Mega Beedrill. They mean specifically the battle gimmicks they started doing to make each game "unique."
"Gimmicky" forms have nothing to do with it. The contemporary meaning for gimmick is and has always been precisely Z-moves and its subsequent iterations.
>The contemporary meaning for gimmick is and has always been precisely Mega Evolutions and its subsequent iterations.
Fixed that for you. Just because it's your favorite one, doesn't make it any different than Dynamax or Tera.
Though, technically, you could include Wonder Launcher in that list too. Bit more of a gray area, because unlike Mega and onwards, you could play all of Gen 5 without knowing it exists. But mechanically, it's in the same boat as the rest of the gimmicks.
There you go moving the goalpost again to try and fit your very contrived and specific inclination to fit megas into the mix.
No, the Wonder Launcher and Mega Evolution are not gimmicks. They're not even on the same plane.
Yes the Wonder Launcher didn't make it past Gen 5, but there wasn't an expiration date on it when they decided to put it in the game to begin with.
Same thing with megas, but there's even less reason to consider them because like any other mechanic they've been a part of the series for-fricking-ever now and were absent from fewer games they've been included in no differently than abilities or held items.
If you wanted to separate one of the gimmicks, wouldn't it make most sense to separate Z-Moves from Dyna/Mega/Tera? That one doesn't alter the pokemon in anyway, and Mega was still a gimmick at that point.
That might be a good way to go about it. Call them transformation gimmicks, and have Z-Moves be the oddball out.
>Gimmick
You press a specific separate button on the move UI to trigger it. In the Sword prototype they used the assets that trigger Mega Evolution to trigger Gigantamax. It's functionally exactly the same, even Gen 7 uses the same way to trigger both Z-moves and Megas. It's all mechanically identical. Are items not items because sometimes Pokemon can't hold them in battle?