The actions of the voice actor literally do no matter. All that matters is that if they do a good job at their role. You are the one sounding like a cancel culture troony.
>4kidz made biased against dubs
Not just that, but people against anime in general. If only based 4kidz were still around and filtering twittergays from superior media.
People were mocking dubs even before anime was a thing. All the way back in the 1930s when German and French films were brought over and "improved" by Hollywood with a dub. By the time stuff like Speed Racer and Voltron started coming over, it was just a continuation of people mocking dubs. The short period of 1998-2004 is the anomaly when people started unironically liking dubs. Because they got exposed to them on TV. But notice how once subbing online overtook TV broadcasts, people started pointing out how the dubs suck compared to the original Japanese. Because they were being exposed to the original Japanese first. Rather than Toonami being their first exposure to a show.
>people started pointing out how the dubs suck compared to the original Japanese.
More like online communities started to grow their hivemind by shaming and excluding anyone who watches dubs.
If you consume any foreign movies or games with English dubs, you are not experiencing the director's vision.
The director: >selected the actors / actresses >developed the script >directed the performance >injected their soul
The original dub is how the movie or game was meant to be enjoyed. If you listen to an English dub, you are consuming a subpar product made by hacks who will invariably inject their own biases and ideas into the original product. They do this because they lack any creative faculties of their own. They latch onto media made by true artists and mangle it so they can say they contributed and thereby parade themselves as creatives.
Dubbing over the director's original audio track is the same as if a pink haired dyke finger painted a mustache on the Mona Lisa and said she made it more palatable for modern audiences, and then claimed herself to be an artist on par with Davinci.
I have nothing but vitriol for English voice actors. They're all lousy parasites.
>you are not experiencing the director's vision.
This argument was always so silly to me. You are watching ANIME you're not reading the original manga or reading the original light novel "the way it was meant to be experienced!" subs are no worse than dubs in this regard. No anime was made to be experienced through reading subtitles on the screen.
>More like online communities started to grow their hivemind by shaming and excluding anyone who watches dubs.
As someone who has been watching anime since the early 90s, the dub fans were doing the same thing in the late 90s all the way up to the mid 2000s. If you went on any forum and tried to talk about an anime without a dub or mentioned the original Japanese Seiyuu, you'd have 50 people rush in to attack you and call you a subgay and tell you to have a nice day. If not having a mod ban you. Then they got all surprised when the same thing started happening to them in the mid 2000s. It was a response to their own actions.
The problem with 4Kids weren't the voices. Most of them are actually pretty good. It was all the think of the children censorship that was the problem with them.
You can walk down the street seeing people barely clothed and smoking. It's moronic to remove it from media as if it affects people more than real life.
People were mocking dubs before 4kids even existed. Going back to Speed Racer and Sailor Moon. As someone already pointed out, people actually started defending dubs around the time 4kids was king. Including some 4Kids shows. And it wasn't because the dubs were good but because they were on TV and mainstream. They were the only version people knew, until they found online subs.
There are dubs today with tons of overacting, forced cuteness and bad pacing. Just like Sailor Moon and Speed Racer of the past. >If you're a native English speaker everything will flow a lot more naturally to you.
Dubs don't flow naturally just by the fact that they try to match mouth movements. Which leads to things like them speeding up or slowing down their cadence in unnatural ways. Or rewriting sentences to match the timing, which don't sound natural.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>There are dubs today with tons of overacting, forced cuteness and bad pacing. Just like Sailor Moon and Speed Racer of the past.
Well it seems despite watching 1000+ hours of dubbed anime I've yet to come across them. Funny how that works.
>If you're a native English speaker everything will flow a lot more naturally to you.
That's hilariously wrong, dubs are specifically unnatural. That's the whole reason people can put on a "mocking anime voice" in the first place.
>That's the whole reason people can put on a "mocking anime voice" in the first place.
Like they can in Japanese as well?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Like they can in Japanese as well?
The difference is you're not looking for familiarity in the Japanese one. You're looking for the foreign aspect.
It's like uncanny valley. Go far away enough from what you understand and it stops being unsettling, but if you're too close but not close enough it becomes bad.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Either English dubbers are imitating Japanese voice actors who overact and don't sound natural, or they don't. You can't make both arguments at the same time.
11 months ago
Anonymous
My point is that anime characters sound like anime characters in both Japanese and English. Translating Japanese so literally creates a horrible experience and this is what most subgays want.
context?
Despite being cowardly, that dude is calling her crazy within the first couple of episodes. Don't listen to the deranged subgays. Look how they mass reply to you for liking a simple line.
Is this picture suppose to be a defense of dubs? It's clearly showing how they massively alter stuff on a whim. This reminds me of the Disney translations of Ghibli movies >Original Japanese: "Hai, wakata." >English: "I understand. I was prepared the moment I let my arrow fly."
Yes. Dubs are more natural because they aren't boring stale robotic literal translations. It's why they flow better to native English speakers.
>If you're a native English speaker everything will flow a lot more naturally to you.
That's hilariously wrong, dubs are specifically unnatural. That's the whole reason people can put on a "mocking anime voice" in the first place.
>begone, dirty prostitutes >because i love you crazy b***h
those are actually better
11 months ago
Anonymous
fr fr no cap
11 months ago
Anonymous
Second one doesn't fit the character at all.
11 months ago
Anonymous
context?
11 months ago
Anonymous
He has no balls whatsoever for most of the show, even once he grows some semblance of them towards the end he still wouldn't say it like that. It's completely out of character.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>needless swearing and name calling is LE GOOD
Muttbrain
11 months ago
Anonymous
frick you its funny
[...]
Okay thanks for the clarification
He has no balls whatsoever for most of the show, even once he grows some semblance of them towards the end he still wouldn't say it like that. It's completely out of character.
Is this picture suppose to be a defense of dubs? It's clearly showing how they massively alter stuff on a whim. This reminds me of the Disney translations of Ghibli movies >Original Japanese: "Hai, wakata." >English: "I understand. I was prepared the moment I let my arrow fly."
11 months ago
Anonymous
OoOOoooOh but anon, the English one is so much COOLER and FUNNIER and not like the original FILTHY JAP SHIT (that I'm still watching for some reason)
11 months ago
Anonymous
If you say one word when you could have said ten, you're just not trying hard enough. Translators don't see this as a joke but their actual model. Because they literally get paid by the word sometimes. But also because "more context is better" is the shitty motto of dubbing.
I don't hate English voice actors. I hate dub producers and directors. You can see a big difference between a domestic English production and a dub. Especially when some dubs have famous English voice actors like Mark Hamill or Tara Strong. They sound good in an American cartoon. But then suddenly sound terrible in the dub. Because the dubbing director is telling them to do that. And they only get 1-2 takes.
This. The worst thing is when female western VAs trying to replicate the cutesy voices in Japanese games. You really can't do that in English, might as well just make the VAs speak more like characters from western media. But yeah it's probably just the director basically saying "yeah just do the same like the original, but in english."
I can't remember what production it was. But there was a semi recent (within the last 2 years) anime dub where the dubbing director flat out admitted he told them to overact and sound cheesy on purpose. And way back with stuff like the Cowboy Bebop and MGS dubs, they purposefully changed characters and the entire tone of the work to be more dramatic. because that's what they thought the western audienc wanted.
So it's not just subgays being paranoid. The dubbing teams literally have said it. Though it's funny that some teams try to make everything overly dramatic and monotone, while others go in the extreme opposite path. It's almost like a middle ground would probably be best...
they saw one person say sub is superior 20 years ago on an angelfire site and have been jerking themselves off for being true nihongo connoisseurs ever since
>20 years ago >angelfire
What is this grandpa talking about?
Because Ganker wants to be japanese so bad even though japanese people would be disgusted by them. Anyway for me? It's Erica Lindbeck
>Ganker is one person
troonyschizo.
>people started pointing out how the dubs suck compared to the original Japanese.
More like online communities started to grow their hivemind by shaming and excluding anyone who watches dubs.
[...] >you are not experiencing the director's vision.
This argument was always so silly to me. You are watching ANIME you're not reading the original manga or reading the original light novel "the way it was meant to be experienced!" subs are no worse than dubs in this regard. No anime was made to be experienced through reading subtitles on the screen.
If you consume any foreign movies or games with English dubs, you are not experiencing the director's vision.
The director: >selected the actors / actresses >developed the script >directed the performance >injected their soul
The original dub is how the movie or game was meant to be enjoyed. If you listen to an English dub, you are consuming a subpar product made by hacks who will invariably inject their own biases and ideas into the original product. They do this because they lack any creative faculties of their own. They latch onto media made by true artists and mangle it so they can say they contributed and thereby parade themselves as creatives.
Dubbing over the director's original audio track is the same as if a pink haired dyke finger painted a mustache on the Mona Lisa and said she made it more palatable for modern audiences, and then claimed herself to be an artist on par with Davinci.
I have nothing but vitriol for English voice actors. They're all lousy parasites.
What you say is true. Unfortunately there is no perfect solution beyond learning the original language. But at least by enjoying movies and games in their original language, we can appreciate the acting of the professionals selected by the director, and not be forced to endure the pathetic mumblings of third rate hacks.
English dubs historically were low budget productions. They saved money by licensing pre-made foreign media instead of creating new media and they hired cheap voice actors because they didn’t have any budget.
No? I love a lot of western voice acting. I love the VAs in my favorite games such as Max Payne, Fallout New Vegas, GTA IV, Red Dead Redemption, etc. Recently from what I played Agent 47 and Diana's voice from Hitman are so good, I can listen to them for hours
What I don't like is anime/anime games dubs, especially the female characters. I stopped playing Persona 4 back when I was in high school because Chie sounds like an old lady, and it ruined the game for me. Played it again like a decade later with an undub patch.
Dubs, practically always, have lower budgets than the original voice tracks. No matter the language or country doing the dubs.
So you don't even need to get into any arguments about the prospects of specific talent pools.
Western VAs don't know or have "moe"
That's it.
I don't give a flying frick about dubs for anime-styled properties, especially if the cast is primarily female.
Probably because they want to hide their illiteracy
Lower budgets don't automatically mean that the work produced from it will be bad. There are plenty of high budget projects that end up being shit. It's not an argument.
I'd say people who whine about dubs all the time are the shit eaters considering that despite hating dubs so much they feel the need to constantly attack them.
>that despite hating dubs so much they feel the need to constantly attack them
Tons of games are delayed or sometimes not even released at all. Because devs or publishers feel obliged to add dub tracks. So I'll continue to shit on dubs forever most likely.
Without dubs I would have more games and I would get them faster too.
Y homosexuals hate all English VAs even when the game's original dub IS English. You seem to be using the excuse that dubs of Japanese games are bad to hate anything that's in English. This is pathological weebism, self-hating, pathetic. We should deport you all to Japan.
I don't hate English voice actors. I hate dub producers and directors. You can see a big difference between a domestic English production and a dub. Especially when some dubs have famous English voice actors like Mark Hamill or Tara Strong. They sound good in an American cartoon. But then suddenly sound terrible in the dub. Because the dubbing director is telling them to do that. And they only get 1-2 takes.
Original english voicing is perfectly fine when voicing its own properties. Look at any RTS game and its fans can belt out entire unit lines on their own.
Just don't give me anime dubs where the cast is primarily young people and school girls.
a lot of them are horrible people with bad personalities that say and do awful things. not all of them, but a good amount of them just suck. i wish social media didnt exist so i didnt know how annoying they were.
there's also the matter of most english dubs just being complete shit that i have no reason to ever use, though voice acting for things that are originally english is generally a lot better.
I hate all voice actors because that shit is for movies, not games.
As for ones that do in general have them since I unfortunately cannot stop them from ruining their products, then the correct answer is to play in the language of origin, whatever that is.
Cute voice acting does not work in any other language besides japanese, but some directors still insist in trying to do that in english. Heck, cute is something that's culturally frowned upon if you're not a kid.
Cute can be done in English. It's just that Hollywood hates it. And created the public perception that everything has to be dramatic and serious, as you alluded to.
>cute voice acting does not work in any other language besides japanese
It does however if you're a woman hating yellowfevergay you'll probably think otherwise
I remind you that the most popular and cutest vtuber is an English speaking American woman. And yes the Japanese love her.
She also doesn't do the basic b***h 40 year old chain smoker trying to be "cute" but can't hide her seething dub voice actor voice and is instead just cute.
I don't really like Vtubers, but I admit they got the right idea when "voicing" their characters (at least some that I've seen) as it's just them speaking/acting like a young person instead of forcing that japanese "cuteness".
It's because when they dub japanese shit they sound all high pitched and shrill and it's awful. If they just stop trying to be sound like japanese VAs it could be good.
They aren't voice actors, they're failed actors. Actual voice actors go through very different training in countries where it has the institutional backing of a real profession.
Dubfans will say because the ironically bad stuff like Ghost Stories "enhances" the product. But in reality, there isn't a good reason. And even dubfans know it. Which is why they get so defensive about it.
Most dubfans even hate most dubs. They just latch onto the handful of ones they saw as a 12 year old like Cowboy Bebop or Final Fantasy X and claim they're the definitive version. Because for them it was. That's the version they saw first so it imprinted on them. Later when subtitles and Japanese audio started becoming more common online and dual audio game releases, you saw a lot more people saying the Japanese version is better. Because they saw that one first.
a lot of dub actors just sound so fricking flat and uninterested but when i play things in jp everybody sounds the exact same except a few games that did a good job
Because they hate themselves.
They think they could do better but never try, they instead go cry on Ganker and start using "IT Power" to make their fantasies come true at the expense of nothing but stealing and using someone elses assets and still blame everyone else but themselves.
IT people should get the rope.
They fricking turned the country into a soon to be Neo-Detroit.
Nuke America.
Thrice.
Please, I'm begging you, end their suffering.
some of the best English performances have come from stage performers. I really liked the English dub for Tactics Ogre Reborn, English voices really fit the setting more than Japanese even if the Japanese performance was excellent, the English was just as good.
Cringe is easier to swallow when I can't tell how bad the acting is because I don't know the language. Anime just is better in japanese because of this. Usually whichever place the show comes from is best, Wakfu is only worth watching in frog for example.
>use JP >voice actors I know over decades of JP media consumption >use dub >hear some no talented 20 something dumbass working min wage frick up his/her lines
its not a hard choice
I don't like how most english VAs tend to have the range to only do two or three voices. And because the west is a shitheap for VA work apparently, there are only like 10 people in the entire industry so it's the same fricking people in every anime and game dub.
It's not the west so much as just the US and UK. Most other countries have good voice actors because they have an entire industry for redubbing Hollywood movies. And those same people also dub anime/games. But in the US and UK, voice acting is seen as a third tier medium. Something you do only if you can't get "legitimate" work (stage and screen). Hell, voice acting is considered below radio commercials.
I don't even consider whitewashed Asians to be real Asians. Not attractive enough to be a real white person, not exotic enough to be a real Asian. Just a disgusting in-between. Ew.
Big reason I'm a bit iffy on a lot of english actors is because I feel like a lot of them grew up watching dubs and then starting emulating their mannerisms when they became voice actors themselves, rather than using their own actual strengths as actors, which just kinds of leading to a regurgitation rather than well done performances. This does make the more well done performances stand out a lot more and I end up liking that actor more than others. A big reason why I enjoy a lot of FE voice actors, since with Echoes and Three Houses, they did a pretty good job. I think Ian Sinclair as Berkut, Chris Hackney as Dimitri, and Cherami Leigh as Rhea were all pretty big stand outs.
Nobody can make the argument that dubbing isnt racist. Always has been always will be. If we can collectively strive to erase the word Black person then I see no reason why dubs are still allowed to exist, its blatant white washing and butchering of the original dialogue.
End racism with dubs first
>Translating Japanese so literally creates a horrible experience and this is what most subgays want.
If you're going to go down generalized absolutes, then we can say "all dubgays just want massive alterations and all hints of Japanese removed from the product." Of course the reality is more subtle than that for both sides. But once you go down this road, no conversation can be had.
Most sub fans understand you can't have a direct translation and don't advocate for that. We have machines that can do that. But there needs to be more work than that The problem is, many dubs go far beyond the minimal amount of work of flipping sentence structure or adding in context. They just make shit up, alter entire character personalities, add accents, throw politics into it and so on.
>many dubs go far beyond the minimal amount of work of flipping sentence structure or adding in context.
And this is why I'm advocating for them. This is why they sound more natural than subs ever will.
I don't know what to even say because "dubs sound natural" is about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. This is not me mocking you for liking dubs. But it's just like, even most dub fans admit they don't sound natural. And previously you tried to claim Japanese voices don't sound natural and the English actors are imitating them. So it's like your whole argument makes no sense.
When I say natural I'm specifically referring to things like the choice of words and sentence structing. The performance of the actor themselves doesn't matter here. It's something that can be seen with just words on paper.
I give up. Your logic is so out there I don't think you even understand what you're saying. Or you're just trying to voice a "feeling" you have, but don't know how to explain it.
You take a japanesey phrase. You switch it out for a phrase more commonly used in English even if it's not exact. If done right it should flow more naturally. For example people in Japan say "Shigata ka nai" a lot.
Is this really so hard to understand?
Ah yes the "natural" dub where they still say shit like "big brother" instead of just calling each other by name.
>by name
You mean onii-chan? Or aniki? Or name-kun?
I only play in original language, i will rarely play dubbed. Outside of FF14 and FF16, i fricking hate brits. It would've been different if I never met my british friend, but because of him I cannot stand the british accent.
I can answer this by analogizing it to shit outside of the world of video games and anime, just to make the point:
I like Korean dramas. While many are dogshit, some are absolutely fantastic. The actors, producers, writers, and others involved in production put a LOT of work in making sure lines come out the right way - the right pacing, the right context, the right subtleties. Many of those subtleties require cultural knowledge that might not necessarily be known by the West, but are nonetheless fairly important to the story itself.
Netflix has recently tried dubbing these shows, and it's intolerable. The actors are fine, but their English speech comes off as weird and loses a lot of the context of the original show. Their attempts to pander to Western audiences become obnoxious because nobody in their right mind watches this shit without having some interest in Korean culture. Worse yet, they completely blow past key cultural aspects of the shows, reducing complex storytelling down to rudimentary trash. Even worse still, it panders to absolute morons who somehow cannot fathom reading subtitles (which have their own issues, but still).
Take, for example, the kdrama The Glory, a fantastic revenge drama. There is an English dub. I do not give a frick who voiced the English dub. I do not give a frick who they are, if they're attractive, or whatever. I do not want to meet them at a convention and listen to how important they think they are. I did not engage with their product because what they make is fundamentally worthless trash. Anyone who watches it is a knuckle-dragging moron that dilutes a good TV show because they're scared of reading.
Voice actors for anime get marginal amounts of attention because anime and video game fans are weird and obsessive over dumb shit. All of them should be thrown into a trash furnace.
Exactly. You got it. When it comes to Japanese products, they also have their own inflections, use of tone, acting styles and stuff. And even if you don't know a lick of Japanese, you can pick these up after just a little bit of watching. While English dubs not only overwrite them, they actively try to erase them.
Spike Spiegel in Cowboy Bebop is the gold standard dub fans look to as "the best dub voice ever." Problem is, the dub totally ruined his character. The whole point of Spike was he had two different personalities. One was the care free, silly guy who would sit on the floor eating Ramen and quoting Bhuuda. The other was the sad, depressed loner. But the second one only showed up whenever Julia was mentioned. The rest of the time, he was silly, fun Spike. The director specifically told his Japanese voice actor to play the character like Lupin from Lupin the III. What did the English do? Just make him mopey, serious Spike the whole time. Even in silly scenes, the animated character will be doing spastic arm movements and laughing, but the voice coming out is some sullen, serious guy trying to act dramatic. This is the problem with dubs.
jap media has this cliche where they just say a charcter's name and nothing else just for dramatic effect. and in all dubs they always jury rig some quip as a replacement. like
jp: shion, omae wa....
dub: ummm zoinks scoob!!
Changing an animated characters voice changes the character. It's really that simple.
I don't watch The Simpsons in Japanese because I expect to hear Homer Simpsons original voice. No matter how good the Japanese replacement is, he cannot replicate the same tone and inflection (and silly grunts/squeals) Dan Castellaneta can. Hearing someone else means I'm not hearing Homer Simpson. Likewise, I don't watch Slayers in English because I expect to hear Megumi Hayashibara's voice. Lisa Ortiz can't reproduce her inflections or tone or crazy energy.
Pretty much this, it's why watching a dub of an originally English show feels weird as frick in any other language. Not even counting how off the mouth movements could be and how things can be lost in translation, VAs can't do perfect impressions of another's performance most of the time, ESPECIALLY if they're speaking an entirely different language.
reminder anyone who uses non-arguments like "well sometimes dubs fit the setting better" actually watch everything dubbed and just don't want to admit it
they're like rats
I don't. I just don't listen to them in anime games.
its just weebs that pretend they're japanese
>BUT NOOOO ITS THE SUPERIOR FORMAT
Then why do you need subtitles?
>bayonetta english voice fiasco
>pyra english voice fiasco
Gee, I wonder why ~~*w*st w*men*~~ are hated.
Kys, troony.
The actions of the voice actor literally do no matter. All that matters is that if they do a good job at their role. You are the one sounding like a cancel culture troony.
you first granny.
Probably has to do with 99% of them being absolute dogshit
This. i can name all the good english dubs on one hand
4kidz made everyone biased against dubs. There's also a lot ESL's who can't fully appreciate English dubbing.
Most English dub haters are from latin america and non-english speaking european countries.
meds
>4kidz made biased against dubs
Not just that, but people against anime in general. If only based 4kidz were still around and filtering twittergays from superior media.
People were mocking dubs even before anime was a thing. All the way back in the 1930s when German and French films were brought over and "improved" by Hollywood with a dub. By the time stuff like Speed Racer and Voltron started coming over, it was just a continuation of people mocking dubs. The short period of 1998-2004 is the anomaly when people started unironically liking dubs. Because they got exposed to them on TV. But notice how once subbing online overtook TV broadcasts, people started pointing out how the dubs suck compared to the original Japanese. Because they were being exposed to the original Japanese first. Rather than Toonami being their first exposure to a show.
>people started pointing out how the dubs suck compared to the original Japanese.
More like online communities started to grow their hivemind by shaming and excluding anyone who watches dubs.
>you are not experiencing the director's vision.
This argument was always so silly to me. You are watching ANIME you're not reading the original manga or reading the original light novel "the way it was meant to be experienced!" subs are no worse than dubs in this regard. No anime was made to be experienced through reading subtitles on the screen.
>More like online communities started to grow their hivemind by shaming and excluding anyone who watches dubs.
As someone who has been watching anime since the early 90s, the dub fans were doing the same thing in the late 90s all the way up to the mid 2000s. If you went on any forum and tried to talk about an anime without a dub or mentioned the original Japanese Seiyuu, you'd have 50 people rush in to attack you and call you a subgay and tell you to have a nice day. If not having a mod ban you. Then they got all surprised when the same thing started happening to them in the mid 2000s. It was a response to their own actions.
The problem with 4Kids weren't the voices. Most of them are actually pretty good. It was all the think of the children censorship that was the problem with them.
You can walk down the street seeing people barely clothed and smoking. It's moronic to remove it from media as if it affects people more than real life.
That's my point. People began to hate on dubs because they associated it with 4kidz censorship.
People were mocking dubs before 4kids even existed. Going back to Speed Racer and Sailor Moon. As someone already pointed out, people actually started defending dubs around the time 4kids was king. Including some 4Kids shows. And it wasn't because the dubs were good but because they were on TV and mainstream. They were the only version people knew, until they found online subs.
Speedracer and sailor moon don't sound like today's dubs or even dubs done 15 years ago. People mocked them for different reasons.
If you're a native English speaker everything will flow a lot more naturally to you.
There are dubs today with tons of overacting, forced cuteness and bad pacing. Just like Sailor Moon and Speed Racer of the past.
>If you're a native English speaker everything will flow a lot more naturally to you.
Dubs don't flow naturally just by the fact that they try to match mouth movements. Which leads to things like them speeding up or slowing down their cadence in unnatural ways. Or rewriting sentences to match the timing, which don't sound natural.
>There are dubs today with tons of overacting, forced cuteness and bad pacing. Just like Sailor Moon and Speed Racer of the past.
Well it seems despite watching 1000+ hours of dubbed anime I've yet to come across them. Funny how that works.
>That's the whole reason people can put on a "mocking anime voice" in the first place.
Like they can in Japanese as well?
>Like they can in Japanese as well?
The difference is you're not looking for familiarity in the Japanese one. You're looking for the foreign aspect.
It's like uncanny valley. Go far away enough from what you understand and it stops being unsettling, but if you're too close but not close enough it becomes bad.
Either English dubbers are imitating Japanese voice actors who overact and don't sound natural, or they don't. You can't make both arguments at the same time.
My point is that anime characters sound like anime characters in both Japanese and English. Translating Japanese so literally creates a horrible experience and this is what most subgays want.
Despite being cowardly, that dude is calling her crazy within the first couple of episodes. Don't listen to the deranged subgays. Look how they mass reply to you for liking a simple line.
Yes. Dubs are more natural because they aren't boring stale robotic literal translations. It's why they flow better to native English speakers.
>If you're a native English speaker everything will flow a lot more naturally to you.
That's hilariously wrong, dubs are specifically unnatural. That's the whole reason people can put on a "mocking anime voice" in the first place.
>begone, dirty prostitutes
>because i love you crazy b***h
those are actually better
fr fr no cap
Second one doesn't fit the character at all.
context?
He has no balls whatsoever for most of the show, even once he grows some semblance of them towards the end he still wouldn't say it like that. It's completely out of character.
>needless swearing and name calling is LE GOOD
Muttbrain
frick you its funny
Okay thanks for the clarification
Is this picture suppose to be a defense of dubs? It's clearly showing how they massively alter stuff on a whim. This reminds me of the Disney translations of Ghibli movies
>Original Japanese: "Hai, wakata."
>English: "I understand. I was prepared the moment I let my arrow fly."
OoOOoooOh but anon, the English one is so much COOLER and FUNNIER and not like the original FILTHY JAP SHIT (that I'm still watching for some reason)
If you say one word when you could have said ten, you're just not trying hard enough. Translators don't see this as a joke but their actual model. Because they literally get paid by the word sometimes. But also because "more context is better" is the shitty motto of dubbing.
Ah yes the "natural" dub where they still say shit like "big brother" instead of just calling each other by name.
I don't hate English voice actors. I hate dub producers and directors. You can see a big difference between a domestic English production and a dub. Especially when some dubs have famous English voice actors like Mark Hamill or Tara Strong. They sound good in an American cartoon. But then suddenly sound terrible in the dub. Because the dubbing director is telling them to do that. And they only get 1-2 takes.
This. The worst thing is when female western VAs trying to replicate the cutesy voices in Japanese games. You really can't do that in English, might as well just make the VAs speak more like characters from western media. But yeah it's probably just the director basically saying "yeah just do the same like the original, but in english."
I can't remember what production it was. But there was a semi recent (within the last 2 years) anime dub where the dubbing director flat out admitted he told them to overact and sound cheesy on purpose. And way back with stuff like the Cowboy Bebop and MGS dubs, they purposefully changed characters and the entire tone of the work to be more dramatic. because that's what they thought the western audienc wanted.
So it's not just subgays being paranoid. The dubbing teams literally have said it. Though it's funny that some teams try to make everything overly dramatic and monotone, while others go in the extreme opposite path. It's almost like a middle ground would probably be best...
What was the rationale behind the intentional mispronunciation of Persona 5's dub again?
I have no idea about that one. I haven't played any Persona game except 3.
Ganker for some reason especially hate asian english voice actors like proZD and YongYea
Most subgays are ESL's with a very poor grasp of spoken English.
Most dubgays are troony twittergays.
most people dont obsess over voice actors the way weebs do, so you only see their cries for attention.
only one of those characters I recognize is Yuffie (Yuh-fee)
Because Ganker wants to be japanese so bad even though japanese people would be disgusted by them. Anyway for me? It's Erica Lindbeck
they saw one person say sub is superior 20 years ago on an angelfire site and have been jerking themselves off for being true nihongo connoisseurs ever since
>20 years ago
>angelfire
What is this grandpa talking about?
>Ganker is one person
troonyschizo.
>excluding
Boo hoo, normie.
If you consume any foreign movies or games with English dubs, you are not experiencing the director's vision.
The director:
>selected the actors / actresses
>developed the script
>directed the performance
>injected their soul
The original dub is how the movie or game was meant to be enjoyed. If you listen to an English dub, you are consuming a subpar product made by hacks who will invariably inject their own biases and ideas into the original product. They do this because they lack any creative faculties of their own. They latch onto media made by true artists and mangle it so they can say they contributed and thereby parade themselves as creatives.
Dubbing over the director's original audio track is the same as if a pink haired dyke finger painted a mustache on the Mona Lisa and said she made it more palatable for modern audiences, and then claimed herself to be an artist on par with Davinci.
I have nothing but vitriol for English voice actors. They're all lousy parasites.
Thankfully the translation that goes into a English sub is so very different then the translation that goes into an English dub
What you say is true. Unfortunately there is no perfect solution beyond learning the original language. But at least by enjoying movies and games in their original language, we can appreciate the acting of the professionals selected by the director, and not be forced to endure the pathetic mumblings of third rate hacks.
Why do English dubs sound worse than media that are originally in English?
English dubs historically were low budget productions. They saved money by licensing pre-made foreign media instead of creating new media and they hired cheap voice actors because they didn’t have any budget.
Because even amateurs that do it for free on youtube do better jobs than so called "professional" english voice actors.
For me its individual performances, not overall voice tracks. I can't imagine Hu tao for example as anything other than her amazing english VA.
Hu tao EN voice actress sucks and this is well know. Kafka, Eula and Ganyu are better in english though
No? I love a lot of western voice acting. I love the VAs in my favorite games such as Max Payne, Fallout New Vegas, GTA IV, Red Dead Redemption, etc. Recently from what I played Agent 47 and Diana's voice from Hitman are so good, I can listen to them for hours
What I don't like is anime/anime games dubs, especially the female characters. I stopped playing Persona 4 back when I was in high school because Chie sounds like an old lady, and it ruined the game for me. Played it again like a decade later with an undub patch.
Dubs, practically always, have lower budgets than the original voice tracks. No matter the language or country doing the dubs.
So you don't even need to get into any arguments about the prospects of specific talent pools.
Why are dub apologists such shit eaters?
Western VAs don't know or have "moe"
That's it.
I don't give a flying frick about dubs for anime-styled properties, especially if the cast is primarily female.
Probably because they want to hide their illiteracy
Lower budgets don't automatically mean that the work produced from it will be bad. There are plenty of high budget projects that end up being shit. It's not an argument.
I'd say people who whine about dubs all the time are the shit eaters considering that despite hating dubs so much they feel the need to constantly attack them.
>that despite hating dubs so much they feel the need to constantly attack them
Tons of games are delayed or sometimes not even released at all. Because devs or publishers feel obliged to add dub tracks. So I'll continue to shit on dubs forever most likely.
Without dubs I would have more games and I would get them faster too.
plap plap plap
GET PREGNANT GET PREGNANT GET PREGNANT GET PREGNANT!
what anon said but to
Y homosexuals hate all English VAs even when the game's original dub IS English. You seem to be using the excuse that dubs of Japanese games are bad to hate anything that's in English. This is pathological weebism, self-hating, pathetic. We should deport you all to Japan.
>playing western games
lmao
le based nippon people do it. guess you have to change your mind now.
>self-hating
ironic
See
Original english voicing is perfectly fine when voicing its own properties. Look at any RTS game and its fans can belt out entire unit lines on their own.
Just don't give me anime dubs where the cast is primarily young people and school girls.
for some reason most of them have this inflection that just reeks of insincerity
don't know how else to explain it
a lot of them are horrible people with bad personalities that say and do awful things. not all of them, but a good amount of them just suck. i wish social media didnt exist so i didnt know how annoying they were.
there's also the matter of most english dubs just being complete shit that i have no reason to ever use, though voice acting for things that are originally english is generally a lot better.
>a lot of them are horrible people with bad personalities that say and do awful things.
Is kinda weird from me hearing an asian speak fluent english
do you not live in an area with lots of asians? Pretty much all young asians can speak fluent english
are the coin slots the result of being fat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthic_fold
arr saundu seimu
roastie dub hags trying to sound young
I listen to the original dub of what the creators intended the video game to be.
I hate all voice actors because that shit is for movies, not games.
As for ones that do in general have them since I unfortunately cannot stop them from ruining their products, then the correct answer is to play in the language of origin, whatever that is.
Cute voice acting does not work in any other language besides japanese, but some directors still insist in trying to do that in english. Heck, cute is something that's culturally frowned upon if you're not a kid.
Cute can be done in English. It's just that Hollywood hates it. And created the public perception that everything has to be dramatic and serious, as you alluded to.
>cute voice acting does not work in any other language besides japanese
It does however if you're a woman hating yellowfevergay you'll probably think otherwise
I remind you that the most popular and cutest vtuber is an English speaking American woman. And yes the Japanese love her.
She also doesn't do the basic b***h 40 year old chain smoker trying to be "cute" but can't hide her seething dub voice actor voice and is instead just cute.
I don't really like Vtubers, but I admit they got the right idea when "voicing" their characters (at least some that I've seen) as it's just them speaking/acting like a young person instead of forcing that japanese "cuteness".
vtuber are for the mentally ill they dont count
>And yes the Japanese love her.
they love her design you absolute muppet
It's because when they dub japanese shit they sound all high pitched and shrill and it's awful. If they just stop trying to be sound like japanese VAs it could be good.
I saw her at a chainsaw man panel. She called Makima a mommy
They aren't voice actors, they're failed actors. Actual voice actors go through very different training in countries where it has the institutional backing of a real profession.
give me one good reason to ever use an english dub over the original language's dub
you get funny memes that'll get stale in two weeks!
The ghost stories dub is funny, even if it's a total rewrite.
Dubfans will say because the ironically bad stuff like Ghost Stories "enhances" the product. But in reality, there isn't a good reason. And even dubfans know it. Which is why they get so defensive about it.
Most dubfans even hate most dubs. They just latch onto the handful of ones they saw as a 12 year old like Cowboy Bebop or Final Fantasy X and claim they're the definitive version. Because for them it was. That's the version they saw first so it imprinted on them. Later when subtitles and Japanese audio started becoming more common online and dual audio game releases, you saw a lot more people saying the Japanese version is better. Because they saw that one first.
Suzie is good tho
a lot of dub actors just sound so fricking flat and uninterested but when i play things in jp everybody sounds the exact same except a few games that did a good job
Because they hate themselves.
They think they could do better but never try, they instead go cry on Ganker and start using "IT Power" to make their fantasies come true at the expense of nothing but stealing and using someone elses assets and still blame everyone else but themselves.
IT people should get the rope.
They fricking turned the country into a soon to be Neo-Detroit.
Nuke America.
Thrice.
Please, I'm begging you, end their suffering.
Because their Japanese comprehension isn't high enough to recognize shit-Japanese voice actors, so it's good by default.
I just hate everything and everyone popular. It IS a personality trait.
Simple as.
They just generally aren't very good in english dubs of japanese games
some of the best English performances have come from stage performers. I really liked the English dub for Tactics Ogre Reborn, English voices really fit the setting more than Japanese even if the Japanese performance was excellent, the English was just as good.
Yeah, FF12 sounds better in english thanks to its cast. It's even more jarring when you play Dissidia and compare Basch to other FF casts.
suzie chingchongpingling yeung yea
Cringe is easier to swallow when I can't tell how bad the acting is because I don't know the language. Anime just is better in japanese because of this. Usually whichever place the show comes from is best, Wakfu is only worth watching in frog for example.
Anyone else is full of shit.
>use JP
>voice actors I know over decades of JP media consumption
>use dub
>hear some no talented 20 something dumbass working min wage frick up his/her lines
its not a hard choice
very easy question
they just can't act very well and en dub is like 95% bad voice actors
Because all the good ones are in Hollywood.
what the deuce
I don't like how most english VAs tend to have the range to only do two or three voices. And because the west is a shitheap for VA work apparently, there are only like 10 people in the entire industry so it's the same fricking people in every anime and game dub.
It's not the west so much as just the US and UK. Most other countries have good voice actors because they have an entire industry for redubbing Hollywood movies. And those same people also dub anime/games. But in the US and UK, voice acting is seen as a third tier medium. Something you do only if you can't get "legitimate" work (stage and screen). Hell, voice acting is considered below radio commercials.
when you study voice, you realize how much more effort and though is put into Japanese VAs
I don't hate English voice actors per se, I just hate hearing cringey weeb dialogue in English.
I don't even consider whitewashed Asians to be real Asians. Not attractive enough to be a real white person, not exotic enough to be a real Asian. Just a disgusting in-between. Ew.
Because the same 10 people hoard all the roles like cronyistic buttholes
They're whiney woke homosexuals just like the rest of the western industry.
Big reason I'm a bit iffy on a lot of english actors is because I feel like a lot of them grew up watching dubs and then starting emulating their mannerisms when they became voice actors themselves, rather than using their own actual strengths as actors, which just kinds of leading to a regurgitation rather than well done performances. This does make the more well done performances stand out a lot more and I end up liking that actor more than others. A big reason why I enjoy a lot of FE voice actors, since with Echoes and Three Houses, they did a pretty good job. I think Ian Sinclair as Berkut, Chris Hackney as Dimitri, and Cherami Leigh as Rhea were all pretty big stand outs.
Nobody can make the argument that dubbing isnt racist. Always has been always will be. If we can collectively strive to erase the word Black person then I see no reason why dubs are still allowed to exist, its blatant white washing and butchering of the original dialogue.
End racism with dubs first
Based
We all make fun of shit like the American Oldboy remake, why can't it be the same for dubs?
>Translating Japanese so literally creates a horrible experience and this is what most subgays want.
If you're going to go down generalized absolutes, then we can say "all dubgays just want massive alterations and all hints of Japanese removed from the product." Of course the reality is more subtle than that for both sides. But once you go down this road, no conversation can be had.
Most sub fans understand you can't have a direct translation and don't advocate for that. We have machines that can do that. But there needs to be more work than that The problem is, many dubs go far beyond the minimal amount of work of flipping sentence structure or adding in context. They just make shit up, alter entire character personalities, add accents, throw politics into it and so on.
>many dubs go far beyond the minimal amount of work of flipping sentence structure or adding in context.
And this is why I'm advocating for them. This is why they sound more natural than subs ever will.
I don't know what to even say because "dubs sound natural" is about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. This is not me mocking you for liking dubs. But it's just like, even most dub fans admit they don't sound natural. And previously you tried to claim Japanese voices don't sound natural and the English actors are imitating them. So it's like your whole argument makes no sense.
When I say natural I'm specifically referring to things like the choice of words and sentence structing. The performance of the actor themselves doesn't matter here. It's something that can be seen with just words on paper.
The only possible way you would think even that is if you are ESL.
I give up. Your logic is so out there I don't think you even understand what you're saying. Or you're just trying to voice a "feeling" you have, but don't know how to explain it.
You take a japanesey phrase. You switch it out for a phrase more commonly used in English even if it's not exact. If done right it should flow more naturally. For example people in Japan say "Shigata ka nai" a lot.
Is this really so hard to understand?
>by name
You mean onii-chan? Or aniki? Or name-kun?
Watch your 10th subbed anime or play 2 games in japanese and the flow becomes a complete non issue
I only play in original language, i will rarely play dubbed. Outside of FF14 and FF16, i fricking hate brits. It would've been different if I never met my british friend, but because of him I cannot stand the british accent.
>the british accent.
Because this is a weeb board. Watching/playing dubs should be a bannable offence.
>youtube video
>creator uses dub dialogue
Instant dislike and report/flag
I can answer this by analogizing it to shit outside of the world of video games and anime, just to make the point:
I like Korean dramas. While many are dogshit, some are absolutely fantastic. The actors, producers, writers, and others involved in production put a LOT of work in making sure lines come out the right way - the right pacing, the right context, the right subtleties. Many of those subtleties require cultural knowledge that might not necessarily be known by the West, but are nonetheless fairly important to the story itself.
Netflix has recently tried dubbing these shows, and it's intolerable. The actors are fine, but their English speech comes off as weird and loses a lot of the context of the original show. Their attempts to pander to Western audiences become obnoxious because nobody in their right mind watches this shit without having some interest in Korean culture. Worse yet, they completely blow past key cultural aspects of the shows, reducing complex storytelling down to rudimentary trash. Even worse still, it panders to absolute morons who somehow cannot fathom reading subtitles (which have their own issues, but still).
Take, for example, the kdrama The Glory, a fantastic revenge drama. There is an English dub. I do not give a frick who voiced the English dub. I do not give a frick who they are, if they're attractive, or whatever. I do not want to meet them at a convention and listen to how important they think they are. I did not engage with their product because what they make is fundamentally worthless trash. Anyone who watches it is a knuckle-dragging moron that dilutes a good TV show because they're scared of reading.
Voice actors for anime get marginal amounts of attention because anime and video game fans are weird and obsessive over dumb shit. All of them should be thrown into a trash furnace.
Exactly. You got it. When it comes to Japanese products, they also have their own inflections, use of tone, acting styles and stuff. And even if you don't know a lick of Japanese, you can pick these up after just a little bit of watching. While English dubs not only overwrite them, they actively try to erase them.
Spike Spiegel in Cowboy Bebop is the gold standard dub fans look to as "the best dub voice ever." Problem is, the dub totally ruined his character. The whole point of Spike was he had two different personalities. One was the care free, silly guy who would sit on the floor eating Ramen and quoting Bhuuda. The other was the sad, depressed loner. But the second one only showed up whenever Julia was mentioned. The rest of the time, he was silly, fun Spike. The director specifically told his Japanese voice actor to play the character like Lupin from Lupin the III. What did the English do? Just make him mopey, serious Spike the whole time. Even in silly scenes, the animated character will be doing spastic arm movements and laughing, but the voice coming out is some sullen, serious guy trying to act dramatic. This is the problem with dubs.
jap media has this cliche where they just say a charcter's name and nothing else just for dramatic effect. and in all dubs they always jury rig some quip as a replacement. like
jp: shion, omae wa....
dub: ummm zoinks scoob!!
For things like this I don't hate them I just watch everything in Japanese so I won't have the same recognition response.
because dubs cannot portray the same level of soul as the originals
original language for the material, simple
dubBlack folk should be castrated
I love Suzie
>announcing that you're the voice of a character that's been in the game since near launch
...?
Changing an animated characters voice changes the character. It's really that simple.
I don't watch The Simpsons in Japanese because I expect to hear Homer Simpsons original voice. No matter how good the Japanese replacement is, he cannot replicate the same tone and inflection (and silly grunts/squeals) Dan Castellaneta can. Hearing someone else means I'm not hearing Homer Simpson. Likewise, I don't watch Slayers in English because I expect to hear Megumi Hayashibara's voice. Lisa Ortiz can't reproduce her inflections or tone or crazy energy.
Pretty much this, it's why watching a dub of an originally English show feels weird as frick in any other language. Not even counting how off the mouth movements could be and how things can be lost in translation, VAs can't do perfect impressions of another's performance most of the time, ESPECIALLY if they're speaking an entirely different language.
i had a coworker who hated subs because he couldnt read them fast enough
its how i imagine all dub gays
>nina
Neat, i liked her voice
>troonyface
Yikes
>le troony psyop
you will never look like that troon
>t.wokie
reminder anyone who uses non-arguments like "well sometimes dubs fit the setting better" actually watch everything dubbed and just don't want to admit it
they're like rats
"Spike is obviously suppose to speak English because he wears pants." -Actual argument I've seen more than once
Watched 5 of her animes shown here and 2 are shit, 2 are massive disappointments and the other is meh.
Simple. I don't like hearing Japanese people speaking