Why does SMB:M have such a dedicated following when the games before and afterward are so different?
I've been trying it out on Slippi but it's too fast and everyone I play against has been playing it for 20 years
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smb is not a real fighting game
I have seen so many edits of this picture that i do not know anymore which one is the original
They nerfed my main, jerry!
>smb is not a real fighting game
I one hundred percent agree with this statement.
on that note why is Smash Bros always it's own thing compared to every other fighting game? Is it elitism and due to it never having an arcade version? Is it hatred of nintenkiddies?
In my humble opinion:
The Super Smash Brothers franchise is a platformer-brawler and not a fighting game.
There is no denying its' success and popularity is in part due the use of popular Nintendo characters pitted against each other. This idea worked for so well for Nintendo that the character roster has evolved using popular characters from other intellectual properties.
What really sets fighting games apart from Super Smash Brothers is that fighting games are mostly played by teens, young adults, and adults. Super Smash Brothers players are also all of those mention plus kids.
I feel by adding non-Nintendo characters helps keep older players more intrigue and interested it in it.
You know how a lot of people hate adults who are Disney otakus; Disney-files if you will? Those childless adults you might see at a Disney theme parks... that is how I feel about older players of Super Smash Brothers.
At the end of the day, people are going to like what they like.
OP just watch the documentary series "The Smash Brothers" on Youtube, it explains everything.
AI post
Thank you for thinking my post is AI...?
Like, you're either jesting or posting a parody of people who think the game is vaguely childish but are clueless about what its actual gameplay involves.
no ai would write "Disney-files"
only an underage b& zoomer would
Cause it’s completely different from the standard for fighters that sf2 set? I feel like it’s pretty immediately obvious why people would single it out. Also helps that up until very recently it was pretty much the only game of its kind.
Melee has the best gameplay and it isnt even close, thats why. I never touched Slippi or the emulated experience but I used to go to tournaments and shit about 5 years ago.
I don't know how Slippi would even work when timings need to be so specific.
Anyways, nothing is more infuriating than seeing Ultimate kiddies who have never touched Melee say "Ultimate is pretty close to melee" its not even remotely in the same ballpark. All the smash games feel like shit to play in comparison.
You can do seriously insane shit with these characters the limit is only how good you are with inputs.
If you don't understand the competitive mechanics all this would likely be lost on you.
>Why does SMB:M have such a dedicated following when the games before and afterward are so different?
isn't that as good an explanation as any? Many people moved to the later titles but a lot of the specifics of Melee's gameplay were not recreated by the later titles.
Melee was played for seven years before the sequel came out for people to get used to it, and when the sequel finally did release it became very apparent that the lead designer outright disliked many of the elements that formed melee's identity and removed them to the point of totally insane contrarianism (tripping). it's no wonder a bunch of people went "yeah, no thanks".
This. While prior to Brawl's release there was some concern about it being slower or there not being things like wavedashing (based on reports from people who got to play it at E3 or whatever), there was still a shitton of goodwill, to the point that just before Brawl came out there were even tournaments billed as being the last Melee tournaments, and they even went as far as releasing a "final" Melee tier list. The community was fully expecting to move on to Brawl as the proper Melee successor. Then the game came out, and while there was a serious effort to make it competitive, practically every facet of the game's design resists it. So not long after, you got a "revival" of the Melee scene, with some switching back immediately, others sticking around with Brawl for a good while longer or playing both titles simultaneously. Then Smash 4 came out and Brawl just up and died, while Melee lived on. Then Ultimate came out and Smash 4 up and died, and still Melee lives on.
Yeah. I was playing a lot of Melee when Brawl came out. People did not take Nintendo/Sakurai etc. seriously when they said that Brawl would not be a competitive game on the basis that it didn't seem that the developers intended Melee to be a competitive game either. What we didn't count on was the considerable amount of effort put into making Brawl deliberately worse as a competitive game with no corresponding gameplay benefit. Melee thrived (and continues to thrive) as a competitive game because the developers figured that making the game really responsive would benefit everyone. Brawl represented a shift in attitude where the devs clearly thought that it was necessary to specifically design a game that couldn't be played competitively rather than a game that was fun for all kinds of players.
Melee was pretty well dead in my scene for awhile - maybe a couple of years. There were probably a solid nine months where the Melee scene was exclusively involved in Brawl, and then a period where nobody was doing anything, and then a period where the Melee people were like "frick it let's just play Melee again".
By 2012 the Melee tournaments were much bigger than the Brawl tournaments. Brawl sucked (and Smash 4 was worse).
didn't they make project m to correct the frickups?
also so much vaguenss ITT.
Can people who actually play the game explain which specific elements are better in Melee?
>didn't they make project m to correct the frickups?
They did, and once it got traction Nintendo made sure to shut it down.
>Can people who actually play the game explain which specific elements are better in Melee?
Here's a few:
- Melee had a decent amount of hitstun that allowed for combos. In Brawl, hitstun can be cancelled almost immediately by using an aerial or simply air dodging, so combos were close to non-existent.
- In Melee, when characters run and jump, their momentum carries forward, which not only feels good (especially with characters like Cap. Falcon) but makes it easier to chase after an attack and helps with off-stage finisher attacks. In Brawl, your momentum is immediately reset after jumping i.e. there's no difference between jumping out of walking or running. This severely limits chasing, and it just feels like shit.
- Recovering is MUCH easier in Brawl. Characters are floatier and stay in the air longer, and they snap onto the ledge if they so much as get near it, and the direction they're facing doesn't matter either. That's not to say recovery in Melee was perfect (some characters had horrible gimped recoveries, and some do in Brawl as well), but the problem is the easier recoveries in Brawl make it so it's much harder to actually KO an opponent, especially with the gimped chase and combo game and being able to cancel hitstun.
- Random tripping. Enough said.
- Balance. Melee is, of course, also not perfect in this sense, but at least it has a decent number of viable characters, many of which have INSANELY high skill ceilings AND floors, especially the top tiers (Fox and Falco). Brawl has fricking Meta-Knight, which takes a huge, steaming pile of shit all over just about every character save one or two, and if he didn't exist, the Ice Climbers would still shit on every character anyway.
In the end, Brawl's meta was one in which matches were essentially just campfests, where you hit an opponent, then zone them out endlessly until you can get another hit or two. Rinse and repeat until you actually manage to rack up enough damage to just insta-KO them with a strong attack. This applies to pretty much every character, with the exception of the Ice Climbers, who can infinite EVERY character into an instant kill IIRC, and Meta Knight, who is the only character whose attacks and movements are so fast he can actually combo and chase almost akin to Melee. It's just hilarious how broken MK is. That said, there's an Apex 2013 tournament where M2K, the best MK player, went up against a ZSS player that was actually really awesome, and it was the only time I got legitimately excited for a Brawl patch.
Don’t forget Brawl’s massive input delay that makes the game just feel like trash
Melee also has L canceling (technique the halves landing lag on aerials) and a whole plethora of movement techniques that allow you to move faster than the developers intended. For example, there's dash dancing, which allows you to basically occupy a bunch of space at once, and the literally dozens of ways you can do movement things by airdodging into the ground (wavedash waveland ledgedash etc.). Moving fluidly in Melee takes a lot of work and you can really go a lot faster in Melee than any other Smash game. This has the effect of making the game feel very satisfying to play and also of making neutral very non-commital, which motivates aggressive and interesting gameplay.
Brawl is also just filthy with chain grabs at the top level. You'd almost rather fight mk than another braindead icies player.
Zoomie's first fighting game featuring their favorite cartoon characters. That's top tier crack for autists.
Its nothing like a typical fighting game
>Zoomie's first fighting game
That would be tekken 7
Bro zoomers are Christmas cakes now. They aren't kids. 6th/7th was more like their childhood.
what the frick is smb
sug ma balls
SMash Bros
Super Mash Bros
that's in smash 6
Was waiting for this post. It's been referred to for decades as SSBM, so why the frick would you change it to one that is already ambiguous enough without context to discern between Super Mario Bros and Super Monkey Ball?
when did that start and where did it start im already annoying just thinking about it. if i ever see someone say that im going to have to reply.
>yeah super mario bros is a great game but I haven't heard of any of those features were you using a game genie?
super mario brothers
Games before and after being so different is exactly why. Nothing even comes close to playing like melee other than a few indie games specifically made for and by melee players like Rivals of Aether. Melee is essentially in its own subgenre in the platform fighter realm, Melee and Ultimate are as different from each other as UMvC3 and Street Fighter are.
Brawl and Smash 4 both died out since Ultimate is essentially an improved version of those games, Melee is in a lot of ways improved Smash 64 but its a little bit more different since a lot of people like smash 64 specifically for the simplicity.
>Growing up me and my friends played smash bros 64 ALOT.
>Then melee comes out and we all move on to melee because it's a superior continuation of the genre, it just feels better to play.
>Smash Bros: Brawl comes out, we buy it, we are all hyped to play it, and within a week every single person wants to go back to playing melee and brawl was forgotten and general consensus was that brawl sucked, it felt to slow, melee was a more fact paced and skill-orientated game and was just way more fun and felt better to play.
The idea that "You only like melee because "nostalgia", "it's what you were used to playing" etc is complete bullshit.
That makes no sense considering everyone happily moved on from playing smash bros 64 to the superior version of melee no problem.
Brawl is just a shit game, the genre peaked with melee, anyone that disagrees is a coping zoomer who can't handle melee.
That said I really miss playing melee with my friends, we used to all play after school/work, sometimes 20 of us, all smoking weed, drinking and having tournaments nearly every day, even at insane house parties people would be playing melee to chill out and it would always draw spectators and good vibes, the winner gets to keep playing and the 3 losers have to hand over the controller, at the end of sessions we'd have tournaments where the winners get to smoke the last few cones, melee was probably the single best gaming experience I ever had and nothing will come close, it really was the ultimate gaming experience for hanging out with friends and nothing comes close.
I agree with everything except Brawl is not a shit game, Subspace is kino and it has the best soundtrack, overall the best single player experience in the franchise
I think the biggest problem with subspace is the fact that every level and also most enemies are a bunch of generic garbage instead of being enemies from the trillions of IPs the game has
I agree with your post, although there IS something to be said about the sheer amount of time that passed between Melee and Brawl that further colored not only expectations but how Brawl was evaluated. I've no doubt if Brawl and Melee only had the same amount of time between them as there had been between 64 and Melee, it would've still gotten a fair bit of criticism along these lines, but nowhere near as much. Two years into Melee, there was a competitive scene, sure, and some advanced techniques had already developed, but it hadn't grown into the behemoth it is today, and more importantly, most people were unaware it was even played this way. I know in my case, it really was only around 2005 that I first saw low-res videos of high level Melee players, and I realized how much better the game played than I expected. By that point, while my friends and I would play it once in a while, we had largely moved onto other games, but showing those videos to my friends was a game changer and encouraged us to pick it up again and git gud, and from that point on it came back as a mainstay in our gaming sessions. So when Brawl was announced, we were fricking HYPED, because what could be better than Melee but with even more characters and better graphics? We were more than ready for a sequel by that point, and man, did it let us down.