How is this not an issue of accessibility? >everyone should be able to play my game! >except for those DIRTY POORS in third world countries, buy the new graphics card you subhuman street shitters
I mean, if we have to make every game easier so more people can play them, shouldn't the same logic be applied to graphical capabilities?
No you have this ass-fricking-backwards. The ONLY reason that exclusivity should exist is due to hardware limitiations. >Playstation Exclusive game: Only exclusive because they wanted people to buy the console >Wii exclusive game: Exclusive because no other hardware is designed to play with the game catalogue
PC Exclusive game: MMO with ten thousand buttons required for gameplay and lots of graphics.
You don't get it. "Accessibility" is just code for "I, a Californian game journo who fricking hates playing video games, should have it easier". That's literally it. These people have access to high end computers so optimizing doesn't matter to them, instead they just whine endlessly about not having easy modes.
>everyone should be able to play my game! >except for those DIRTY POORS
This but unironically.
Broke stoners, slavs, and thirdies should not infest my spaces
Not gamedev but I had a call earlier today with a third party punjabi moron who tried to explain to me that it was impossible to insert items into a database except by a scheduled discovery process
In case you aren't fully aware how moronic that is, consider that I've already done it using the API provided
Bloody basterd b***h bloody etc.
FFXIV had this issue as well, where I assume SE prided themselves on their 'graphics' when really it's not hard to just put in minimal effort to optimize your sculpts. Most game devs have high quality or graphically impressive sculpts, and it's a lot more effort if anything to make sure that detail is kept while optimizing the mesh as much as possible.
DO NOT REDEEM! DO NOT REDEEM! WHERE IS THE MONEY? WHERE IS THE MONEY b***h? WHERE IS MY MONEY! IT IS ON YOUR COMPUTORRR b***h! IT IS ON YOUR COMPUTORRR!
DO NOT REDEEM! DO NOT REDEEM! WHERE IS THE MONEY? WHERE IS THE MONEY b***h? WHERE IS MY MONEY! IT IS ON YOUR COMPUTORRR b***h! IT IS ON YOUR COMPUTORRR!
yes bloody b***h bastards make all that money in america and still too big loser for active pc
why are amerimutts so obsessed with China and India?
those fricks at the FFXV team can't make a good game
>this is what happens when everything is outsourced to people who don't know or care about the final product
like Luminous Productions, aka the FFXV team
What's awful about this dragon is that it's a fricking rig. Rendering triangles is really not so hard for a GPU and something massive like that which takes up much of the screen, and often (presumably) against something cheap to render like a skybox, is not that big a deal.
Except that each one of those verts has to have its position recomputed by the vertex factory every frame. Triangle rasterization is cheap but skinning is still expensive.
Presumably it was just auto-weighted using bone envelopes or whatever, honestly is anyone out there actually hand-painting rig weights anymore? Maybe for touch-ups if you notice clear issues with deformation.
>Rendering triangles is really not so hard for a GPU
Can people stop spreading this moronic bullshit? Yes, a model with hundreds of thousand polygons is much more costly than one with a few thousand, in any context
because they shouldn't.
pc gaming should be gatekept.
make games run only on latest high-end hardware.
a half-decent gaming rig should cost at least 10k.
no more annoying third-world-pleb-shitters.
one can only dream.
>games run only on latest high-end hardware >not many people buy games because they can't run them >games in turn have to become ridiciolously expensive. $70? $90? more like $300+ a pop >people also buy less games overall because time is limited so im not even sure you could offset losing the majority of playerbase with price increases >at some point aaa gaming collapses and the only thing thats left is indie shit which can run on anything
so, the issue is vastly multi-layered and more complex than i could ever explain in a single post on a japanese basket-weaving forum, but it boils down to these main points:
A. diversity hires in studios (yes even in japan)
B. outsourcing to cheaper but inferior developrs (mostly indians)
C. the proliferation of pushing the limits of processing capability in computer hardware as opposed to pushing the limits of efficiency
D. all the social and economic factors that led to the pushing of processing capability over that of efficiency, which namely means that it's cheaper and easier to cram more transistors into an ever smaller space than it is to design actually efficient processors
E. the inability of business leaders to understand let alone bring themselves to invest in needed technological pathways to fix the above, aside from D which would require a complete restructuring of our culture to not incentivize greed and 'growth' at all costs
F. the gradual but easily visible fall in quality of educational institutions, who are now more like adult dare care centers where you receive a writ of participation at the conclusion of which, culturally, we have come to necessitate for any entry into higher level employment such as software or hardware design, despite the skill level of those holding said writs being markedly lower than the average skill level 2-3 decades ago
G. the social and economic factors which have led to the decline of said educational institutions, which reduces to diversity hires and ESG pandering after they were taken over by the democratic left wing party in a bid to mold the newest generation into voters for themselves
OR if you want me to completely distill the problem into one sentence for you...
it's because of lazy capitalist greed and Black folk/indians/other unqualified minorities being pushed on the industry by the left wing political machine, on threat of cancelling and de-funding if studios and devs refuse to take part in it
when it comes to pajeets SPECIFICALLY, its more that if you dont outsource to them, your investors think your profit margins won't be as thicc.
investors are famously moronic and nosedeaf, and have yet to understand that sacrificing quality on the altar of margins just leads to a shit game that achieves neither
It's a problem of trying to be movies. They hire 3D animators/modellers who work on movies but that skill set is only partially applicable to video games. There's a whole bunch of other stuff you need to understand for video games.
corporate goblins have turned software development into a steaming shit show.
it's all about being "dynamic" and "reactive" which means shitting out as much (barely functional) software product as possible as fast as possible.
making it shitty just means you can sell updates, improvements and fixes as part of a subscription service
It is a self solving problem.
As corporations release more bad games, fewer people will be spending money on them which will lead the corporations to leave the gaming space or shut down entirely.
This is what I was thinking too. OP's example clearly looks like it's been decimated in zBrush, the actual sculpt would've boggled the mind in polycounts. Also who the frick calls zBrush 'Z-Brush'??
Since this is the closet we have to a game dev thread on Ganker right now i'll ask here: When making textures for ps1 style game should i first draw them in what ever resolution i prefer and then downscale to 256x256 or draw them in that size from the start?
Yes. Then do another pass in your target res. The trick is to try to think like a 90's developer. Act like you think your resources are severely limited.mrwdtk
Clearly not a straight z-brush sculpt, definately unoptmized though. I can almost guarantee it's not the model bogging it down but unoptimized shaders and materials though.
all these assets are outsourced and made by pajeets and are just plugged into the engine. they can drop the resolution and rely on fsr/dlss if the performance is bad.
I know you're joking but people say this shit completely unironically. No one gets these kinds of excuses made for them other than game devs. Imagine if everyone else acted like that. >It's okay that the streets are full of garbage, nobody likes emptying bins
It's their job and they either should do it or quit or get fired.
Younger millennials and gen z don’t know how. There is a very small 15 year window of an even smaller subset of people who actually know how a computer works. Most of them are dead or retired and don’t give a shit to come back and fix it.
it's more than a little worrying that we're getting to the point where it just isn't feasible to educate new generations on the fundamentals of how something works, there's just not enough time or interest. things have grown so specialized, stacked on top of one another, that we could enter a long collapse scenario 50 years from now, if blueprints for basic components are lost and no one can replicate them
Learning how a computer actually works isn't much more difficult than it was 20 years ago, It's just that since then we've piled 50 layers of javascript frameworks that change every two months on top of it, that's the part that's actually infeasible to understand. Software development has become 95% made up busywork and 5% actually doing the thing that makes the computer do what you want. If we do actually get a collapse people will throw all of that out because of necessity.
>raw sculpt with zero retopo work >more detailed
these are not the same thing, you could sculpt a completely smooth cube and it'd have a billion vertices because that's how sculpting works, you need to clean it up afterwards
Except it's not a raw sculpt. A raw sculpt in zbrush is 10-20 million polys, or 20-40M tris. That dragon is not even close. Is the topology bad? Yes, but is it raw sculpt? Not even close. <1M tris in a triple-A game isn't that astounding for a big and detailed mesh.
What is going on at Square, is that they are told to pump assets out as quickly as possible to get the game ready for launch and it needs to be the biggest and baddest thing ever. When console gamers accepted sub 30 FPS as acceptable, that signaled to devs that they didn't need to try to get the game to run at a good pace when multiple large assets were on screen and so techniques for saving FPS weren't taught to the next in line. Now most of the old guard are gone and the people there now don't fricking know this shit and don't think it's needed to boot. Eventually we will reach a point where we simply can't get a machine to process faster and games will stagnate. Imagine, a crash because people aren't interested in the next game, because they don't know HOW to shove more shit in without the game crashing.
this is the state of triple A. game devs put zero effort into optimizing their games and then have the nerve to complain that Xbox S hardware is holding them back.
No one actually cares anymore, about anything. Wages are barely enough to live on now, let alone have a good life.
Unfortunate truth.
Effort isn't rewarded. The opposite even. Low-effort is rewarded.
How is this not an issue of accessibility?
>everyone should be able to play my game!
>except for those DIRTY POORS in third world countries, buy the new graphics card you subhuman street shitters
I mean, if we have to make every game easier so more people can play them, shouldn't the same logic be applied to graphical capabilities?
>How is this not an issue of accessibility?
it is, for the disabled devs that makes this shit
Like trying to get a train to go faster by shoving more coal in the furnace
Does that not make a train go faster? Genuinely asking I don't know shit about steam engines.
Granted it accelerates the combustion and thus the steam pressure yeah
Not sure what anon means
at some point you're gonna be shoveling coal in faster than it can actually burn, so it won't do anything
No you have this ass-fricking-backwards. The ONLY reason that exclusivity should exist is due to hardware limitiations.
>Playstation Exclusive game: Only exclusive because they wanted people to buy the console
>Wii exclusive game: Exclusive because no other hardware is designed to play with the game catalogue
PC Exclusive game: MMO with ten thousand buttons required for gameplay and lots of graphics.
Wii games could be played with PS Move and most with mouse controls on PC.
There is 6 years in the difference of these things, that's about the lifespan of a console.
Uhhhh, just enable upscaling? You don't think you're better than people on console, do you?
FSR sucks dick no thanks
If it's good enough for PS5 and SeX it's good enough for you, chud.
>low res gimmick is now a excuse for plain incompetence
nobody cares about the poor ppl in dirt countries only the poor ppl in rich countries
You don't get it. "Accessibility" is just code for "I, a Californian game journo who fricking hates playing video games, should have it easier". That's literally it. These people have access to high end computers so optimizing doesn't matter to them, instead they just whine endlessly about not having easy modes.
>everyone should be able to play my game!
>except for those DIRTY POORS
This but unironically.
Broke stoners, slavs, and thirdies should not infest my spaces
I anticipated this response hours ago. You're late, homosexual.
Yeah b-but my inane response made you look stupid and I oh great anon am the true victor mentally and morally. I accept your concession dear sir.
Doesn't make it any less true
Startup costs is a gate that keeps itself
Getting fricked, to fuxk other people other people is for homosexuals
funny cause rich gays are the ones who ruined video games who do u think buys those useless 20$ horse mounts?
Not gamedev but I had a call earlier today with a third party punjabi moron who tried to explain to me that it was impossible to insert items into a database except by a scheduled discovery process
In case you aren't fully aware how moronic that is, consider that I've already done it using the API provided
Bloody basterd b***h bloody etc.
Writing a color correction shader for the color blind is much easier than actually optimizing the game.
on one hand you're right but on the other hand
you excuse mental moronation
>tl;dr
IT'S OVER
This seems to be a big issue at SE in general.
FFXIV had this issue as well, where I assume SE prided themselves on their 'graphics' when really it's not hard to just put in minimal effort to optimize your sculpts. Most game devs have high quality or graphically impressive sculpts, and it's a lot more effort if anything to make sure that detail is kept while optimizing the mesh as much as possible.
Oh no, it’s that dragon from The Last Deadend
>Not sure what's going on at Square
I've been thinking this for the last 2 decades
Three if you believe Yamauchi. In Yamauchi we trust.
Is that Photoshop? Looks like a man in a wig.
SAARS THAT IS GAME READY MODEL DO THE NEEDFUL AND UPGRADE GPU
Why do Anons on this board blame India for their own poverty? Dumbass bastards.
yes bloody b***h bastards make all that money in america and still too big loser for active pc
DO NOT REDEEM! DO NOT REDEEM! WHERE IS THE MONEY? WHERE IS THE MONEY b***h? WHERE IS MY MONEY! IT IS ON YOUR COMPUTORRR b***h! IT IS ON YOUR COMPUTORRR!
why are amerimutts so obsessed with China and India?
Why won't third worlders go make their own imageboard and stop shitting up Ganker?
zbrush ruined gaming
you ruined gaming
>t. zbrush user
lol
are you poor or smth?
just buy a 4090
lol
How do I buy a 4090 for my PS5
It takes time and costs money.
Big game file sizes do not affect sales so it would be senseless allocation of development resources.
just turn down your graphics settings to reduce the polygons
this is what happens when everything is outsourced to people who don't know or care about the final product
those fricks at the FFXV team can't make a good game
>this is what happens when everything is outsourced to people who don't know or care about the final product
like Luminous Productions, aka the FFXV team
What's awful about this dragon is that it's a fricking rig. Rendering triangles is really not so hard for a GPU and something massive like that which takes up much of the screen, and often (presumably) against something cheap to render like a skybox, is not that big a deal.
Except that each one of those verts has to have its position recomputed by the vertex factory every frame. Triangle rasterization is cheap but skinning is still expensive.
It's also a pain in the ass to weight paint a model of that complexity.
Presumably it was just auto-weighted using bone envelopes or whatever, honestly is anyone out there actually hand-painting rig weights anymore? Maybe for touch-ups if you notice clear issues with deformation.
Auto-weighting tools usually have issues, so some amount of hand-painting will be necessary, especially if a model is more complex.
You say that like anyone at Square gave a frick in the first place. If they did, they wouldn't have rigged a fricking ZBrush sculpt.
>Rendering triangles is really not so hard for a GPU
Can people stop spreading this moronic bullshit? Yes, a model with hundreds of thousand polygons is much more costly than one with a few thousand, in any context
he also immediately goes on to give reasons why rendering a lot of vertices is expensive anyway
because they shouldn't.
pc gaming should be gatekept.
make games run only on latest high-end hardware.
a half-decent gaming rig should cost at least 10k.
no more annoying third-world-pleb-shitters.
one can only dream.
>games run only on latest high-end hardware
>not many people buy games because they can't run them
>games in turn have to become ridiciolously expensive. $70? $90? more like $300+ a pop
>people also buy less games overall because time is limited so im not even sure you could offset losing the majority of playerbase with price increases
>at some point aaa gaming collapses and the only thing thats left is indie shit which can run on anything
so, the issue is vastly multi-layered and more complex than i could ever explain in a single post on a japanese basket-weaving forum, but it boils down to these main points:
A. diversity hires in studios (yes even in japan)
B. outsourcing to cheaper but inferior developrs (mostly indians)
C. the proliferation of pushing the limits of processing capability in computer hardware as opposed to pushing the limits of efficiency
D. all the social and economic factors that led to the pushing of processing capability over that of efficiency, which namely means that it's cheaper and easier to cram more transistors into an ever smaller space than it is to design actually efficient processors
E. the inability of business leaders to understand let alone bring themselves to invest in needed technological pathways to fix the above, aside from D which would require a complete restructuring of our culture to not incentivize greed and 'growth' at all costs
F. the gradual but easily visible fall in quality of educational institutions, who are now more like adult dare care centers where you receive a writ of participation at the conclusion of which, culturally, we have come to necessitate for any entry into higher level employment such as software or hardware design, despite the skill level of those holding said writs being markedly lower than the average skill level 2-3 decades ago
G. the social and economic factors which have led to the decline of said educational institutions, which reduces to diversity hires and ESG pandering after they were taken over by the democratic left wing party in a bid to mold the newest generation into voters for themselves
OR if you want me to completely distill the problem into one sentence for you...
it's because of lazy capitalist greed and Black folk/indians/other unqualified minorities being pushed on the industry by the left wing political machine, on threat of cancelling and de-funding if studios and devs refuse to take part in it
>if you dont outsource to pajeets you get heckin cancelled!
schizo moment
when it comes to pajeets SPECIFICALLY, its more that if you dont outsource to them, your investors think your profit margins won't be as thicc.
investors are famously moronic and nosedeaf, and have yet to understand that sacrificing quality on the altar of margins just leads to a shit game that achieves neither
It's a problem of trying to be movies. They hire 3D animators/modellers who work on movies but that skill set is only partially applicable to video games. There's a whole bunch of other stuff you need to understand for video games.
they forgot to turn nanite on
Can't nanite a skeletal mesh.
corporate goblins have turned software development into a steaming shit show.
it's all about being "dynamic" and "reactive" which means shitting out as much (barely functional) software product as possible as fast as possible.
making it shitty just means you can sell updates, improvements and fixes as part of a subscription service
It is a self solving problem.
As corporations release more bad games, fewer people will be spending money on them which will lead the corporations to leave the gaming space or shut down entirely.
Because the future is Streaming and you wont own videogames anymore
Is this the new meme now? Posting a 3d model in some tool and going LOOK AT HOW BEEG NUMBER IS, BAAAD
the 3d model has so much stuff on it that it makes the game run like shit.
Look at all the issues cities skyline has because of it
>Why don't game devs optimize anymore?
Because moronic gamers buy it anyway
this
why bother? gamer addicts will buy it anyway, especially if you remove all competitors from the market
they're too busy dilating or shitting in the streets.
Jesus wouldn't say that
I'm sorry christianity, I was too hard on you. Cry about starbucks cups as much as you want. I want to go back
We forgive you. We want to go back too. 🙁
remember when this guy was the antichrist of video games
all that shit seems irrelevant today
uh that's not a 'z-brush sculpt'. if it were, you wouldn't be able to see individual vertices like that...
This is what I was thinking too. OP's example clearly looks like it's been decimated in zBrush, the actual sculpt would've boggled the mind in polycounts. Also who the frick calls zBrush 'Z-Brush'??
Since this is the closet we have to a game dev thread on Ganker right now i'll ask here: When making textures for ps1 style game should i first draw them in what ever resolution i prefer and then downscale to 256x256 or draw them in that size from the start?
Try both and see which looks better. Or draw at high-res, scale it down, then touch it up on another layer on top of it at 256 x 256.
Yes. Then do another pass in your target res. The trick is to try to think like a 90's developer. Act like you think your resources are severely limited.mrwdtk
Why optimize when consoomer morons will just upgrade their hardware for yet another "modern" game that doesn't look any better than Crysis?
Because of reasons we couldn't possibly comprehend
What game?
Nothing it's from an artist who recently started printing models
Clearly not a straight z-brush sculpt, definately unoptmized though. I can almost guarantee it's not the model bogging it down but unoptimized shaders and materials though.
No good/talented devs left
>Old devs
Dead, retired or work for big tech corpo
>Nudevs
Bottom of the barrel trash, hacks and grifters
Despite that game prices keep increasing.
How curious.
>Old studios
>100% devs
>Nu studios
>10% devs, 90% dead weight
It's expensive to pay so many people that don't do anything
Just buy better hardware lmaaaaaao
all these assets are outsourced and made by pajeets and are just plugged into the engine. they can drop the resolution and rely on fsr/dlss if the performance is bad.
please understand
> Detailed 3D models are bad! Waaaah!
Yes, they are. Tone it down, if anything it usually makes the final product look like an unidentifiable mess in game
Just go back to playing PS2 games and stop getting mad at progress.
Square makes movies, not games. Just watch the prerendered version on youtube.
Nobody likes doing retopo.
I know you're joking but people say this shit completely unironically. No one gets these kinds of excuses made for them other than game devs. Imagine if everyone else acted like that.
>It's okay that the streets are full of garbage, nobody likes emptying bins
It's their job and they either should do it or quit or get fired.
Younger millennials and gen z don’t know how. There is a very small 15 year window of an even smaller subset of people who actually know how a computer works. Most of them are dead or retired and don’t give a shit to come back and fix it.
Pretty much this, Reminds me Warhammer 40k technology.
So a crash should be imminent if this is true.
If someone were to bomb the single transitor factory in Taiwan the entire world would die yes
it's more than a little worrying that we're getting to the point where it just isn't feasible to educate new generations on the fundamentals of how something works, there's just not enough time or interest. things have grown so specialized, stacked on top of one another, that we could enter a long collapse scenario 50 years from now, if blueprints for basic components are lost and no one can replicate them
Learning how a computer actually works isn't much more difficult than it was 20 years ago, It's just that since then we've piled 50 layers of javascript frameworks that change every two months on top of it, that's the part that's actually infeasible to understand. Software development has become 95% made up busywork and 5% actually doing the thing that makes the computer do what you want. If we do actually get a collapse people will throw all of that out because of necessity.
> 3D models are more detailed than previous generations.
> UNOPTIMIZED!!1!
morons like him are the reason most PS5 games still look like upscaled PS4 ones.
don't post if you haven't used zbrush or blender before, moron.
See? This dumbass doesn't know zbrush sculpts average in the millions of triangles.
>raw sculpt with zero retopo work
>more detailed
these are not the same thing, you could sculpt a completely smooth cube and it'd have a billion vertices because that's how sculpting works, you need to clean it up afterwards
Which whoever modeled that dragon did. Otherwise its polycount could be several million triangles.
It is.
Except it's not a raw sculpt. A raw sculpt in zbrush is 10-20 million polys, or 20-40M tris. That dragon is not even close. Is the topology bad? Yes, but is it raw sculpt? Not even close. <1M tris in a triple-A game isn't that astounding for a big and detailed mesh.
Because fake pixels and fake frames will fix it
Dont gamers buy nvidia for their DLSS shit? You need to make use of that, otherwise, how would you justify novideo?
>Why don't game devs optimize anymore?
Then tell me how do i improve in optimization anon?
They want games to look no better than those of the PS2 generation.
More polygons does not look better. There's a cap to how much it helps and we hit it a long time ago
By downgrading your games to look no better than PS4's.
What is going on at Square, is that they are told to pump assets out as quickly as possible to get the game ready for launch and it needs to be the biggest and baddest thing ever. When console gamers accepted sub 30 FPS as acceptable, that signaled to devs that they didn't need to try to get the game to run at a good pace when multiple large assets were on screen and so techniques for saving FPS weren't taught to the next in line. Now most of the old guard are gone and the people there now don't fricking know this shit and don't think it's needed to boot. Eventually we will reach a point where we simply can't get a machine to process faster and games will stagnate. Imagine, a crash because people aren't interested in the next game, because they don't know HOW to shove more shit in without the game crashing.
this is the state of triple A. game devs put zero effort into optimizing their games and then have the nerve to complain that Xbox S hardware is holding them back.
Irrelevant time wasting question we all know the answer to.
FRICK YOU BLOODY YOU BLOODY
When's the last time we had a Cinematic Mod thread