Cause it's popular. Everyone's familiar enough with it to know its weaknesses, and a lot of people are frustrated that no-one they know wants to play other systems.
You should delete that "epic screencap" because you could have easily summarized that vomit by just typing >SHILLSSSSSSSSSS >FANBOYYYYYSSS
so that everyone could ignore your homosexualry just as easily but you would require less effort.
I think he's saying that because he doesn't realize they intend to leave over WotC/Hasbro's "hey, we want you to pay us licensing fees as we try to take back the OGL" nonsense last year.
That nobody seems to understand what an OGL means, or how you don't even need an OGL in the first place, because you can't copyright rules, is a whole other topic.
It’s an okay system that has flaws that is mainstream.
It’s more like that people hate DnD 5es player base, the kind of people who refuse to learn any other game so they homebrew stuff like survival mechanics, stands, cyberpunk and basically any setting
>It’s more like that people hate DnD 5es player base
This is an imaginary issue; an invented stereotype that comes out of people who suck at pitching new games. The sort who start off with "I hate D&D, let's play something else!" and expect people to immediately leap at a game that's essentially D&D but less appealing.
It may be seem like a tall order to get people to move away from a game designed to appeal to the broadest range of people, but in my experience most people have innate curiosity and are receptive to trying new games if you know how to actually pitch them correctly. And, according to the latest /tg/ surveys, there's actually only a minority of 5e players here who have only played 5e, with most having played other systems.
The whole "5e players only play 5e" is just another myth coming out of our trolls here, desperate to complain about [popular thing].
No no there differently out there
Sure there are few like me who just use it as a starter game, but there are definitely folks out there who will only play 5e
You just have to look up “how
And for the survey I would say that’s a sampling bias, if it’s just a survey on /tg/.
Despite all the talks of nogames, I’m pretty sure most of /tg/ users played games and are enthusiastic about it enough to learn new systems.
Fa/tg/uys aren’t really the standard demographic
>there are definitely folks out there who will only play 5e
Not enough for people to try and irrationally claim that its an endemic issue in the community. It's just people seeing people preferring to play 5e, and deciding that the only reason they're playing 5e is because they refuse to play anything else, because that's the only way they can rationalize it in their worldview where 5e is the worst game of all time.
You misunderstood me.
It's not preferring to only play 5e. It's having played other games, and still preferring to play 5e. Shocking, I know, but there are many people who actually believe that 5e is not the worst system of all time and will happily play it instead of some other system they've played.
The problem with our trolls is that they genuinely have autism and have great difficulty understanding that people have different opinions that are not necessarily wrong, just a different than their own opinions. So, they perform elaborate mental gymnastics to attempt to rationalize why they are right, and why the majority of roleplayers are wrong. They will stoop quite low, exaggerate and lie, and basically warp every feature of the game into some kind of unforgivable mistake that is nothing but drawbacks.
ie. this dumb thread.
If something is simple, it's TOO basic.
If something has depth, it's TOO complex.
If 5e does it, it's the worst thing that's ever happened.
If 5e doesn't do it, how dare they omit this vital component of RPGs?!?
It's just so... tiresome. The shitposts in this thread really are just that basic, and these trolls still think that they can trick people into thinking they're offering a valid and unbiased opinion of the game.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Oh, it's you. Get new material.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
5e being as reviled as it is is all the proof necessary to prove that all of those things are true. And they are. >do you know how unlikely that is?!?!
Yes.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>5e being as reviled as it is
Lol, you stupid homosexual.
It's the most played game on this board. By a huge margin. There's not even a close 2nd place.
It's the most beloved game here. If you want to say it's "reviled", imagine how much this board must hate every other game.
Dumbass. You're still trying to push a "more than a tiny minority hates this game! I'M NOT A FREAK, I'M NOT A FREAK," narrative, rather than just accepting you're a gross little autistic freak.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Can you actually go have a nice day? Even if this is bait, every discussion on this board and probably outside of it would be better with your absence.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Thank you for confirming you just got your ass handed to you, and have no actual response. "Reviled" indeed.
Dumbass.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
not the anon you replied to, I just want you to have a nice day
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The problem with our trolls is that they genuinely have autism and have great difficulty understanding that people have different opinions that are not necessarily wrong
I love when you do this to yourself.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I understand you have an opinion.
An extremely subjective opinion that belongs to an incredibly tiny minority.
Your opinion is an extreme outlier. An anomally that can't really be treated as anything resembling a fair or unbiased opinion due to how extreme it is and how far it strays from anything resembling a rational and carefully considered opinion.
In effect, your opinion is effectively worthless because the only people who would ever agree with you would need to be as biased as you are. That's why you come here to find your fellow contrarian trolls and to lick each other's wounds every time one of you hurts yourselves flailing in pure rage at the mere thought of people playing the game you've designated as your personal nemesis.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Go appeal to popularity on plebbit.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Dumbass.
Welcome to subjectivity.
There's a reason why people vote for awards shows, because we're not talking about an objective topic, but something as personal as "how a game makes you feel."
Are you really that fricking dumb? You didn't know this is a subjective topic? That your rigidly held opinion is nothing more than your fee-fees? And your wittle feewings belong to such a tiny percentile you're in danger of being written off in the margin of error?
The vast majority of RPG players like 5e. The number who play it even ranges from 30 to 50% depending on the survey/poll, with most other games struggling to get more tha 5%.
You're free to continue being a little b***h and hating a game because it's too popular for your tastes, but quit trying to try and terraform an illusionary landscape where you're not some weird little freak and just accept it. It'll be healthier for you in the long run, especially since you won't have to waste so much mental effort figuring out why so many people like what you think is the worst game of all time.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
have a nice day paragraph schizo
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
you really do belong in reddit. popularity =/= good.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
And, popularity=/=bad.
And yet, here you are, obsessing about a game you don't even play, solely because it's popular and that makes you mad.
There's plenty of worse games out there, they just don't happen to be the most popular game. And, you're not out there, complaining about those games; you're here.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
You type like a 15 year old girl. Cut to the chase and slit your wrists already.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I already know why so many """people"" like 5E. It's low effort, low barrier to entry slop.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Go find a gun and blow your stupid fricking brains out holy shit, it'll make what you post more intelligent I promise.
Actually though, go commit suicide.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
You come to defend a game and always end up seething and malding and desperately trying to formulate insults that sink you deeper into the shit pit where you belong, plebbitor.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>defending a game
I'm attacking you.
You're still here, obsessed about a game you don't even play, rather than discussing games you do play.
This isn't about whatever [popular thing] happens to be, this is about you being in a twist about [popular thing] because you are a basic b***h troll, and the basic b***h trolls on every board just like to complain about [popular thing].
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
You don't get to pretend like you're just passing by and casually slinging insults when you've been doing this exact routine for years on end. Cry about trolls all you want, but we know what you are and we know you'll come running any time someone says something bad about 5e.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're acting like the issue is people giving negative, yet fair, evaluations of the game.
Dumbass.
The issue is you trolling like a moron and thinking you're too clever for anyone to have figured you out. Even now, you're trying to play the victim, the poor, innocent poster just trying to express himself, but being bullied by the evil WotC employee who is paid to defend a product on a board where the product's general includes links to pirate all the material.
I can't reiterate how much of a dumbass you are enough. You really are the dumbest of dumbasses, and it's your dumb, insanely biased posting that's the issue, not the mere notion of someone saying something negative about a game, which you're hopelessly begging everyone to see you as.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
NTA but have a nice day.
I couldn't imagine what mental illness it takes to do what you do, you really should go find a good bridge and get it over with if this is what you do.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>REEEEE TROLLS
I just told you we've seen you do this shit for years now. It's tiresome. Get new material.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
The game sucks.
I am not going to stop saying it sucks.
Do you understand that? There is no amount of posting that will make me stop, ever. You cannot and never will be able to shame me out of posting my genuine opinion on 5E because your opinion is worthless to me. If you want me to stop posting about traditional games, go cry to the mods.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>crying about a game to strangers
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>explaining why you don't like a game >in a thread asking why people don't like a game
ishygddt
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Kinda surreal too, because the first few dozen posts (give or take some low effort shitposts) in this thread before Trollhunter Schizo showed up were thoughtful, articulate, thorough, and clear. Then again, we've had countless threads just like this where he'll show up, ignore everything that's been said without a hint of contrarian malice, and go >YOU JUST HATE IT BECAUSE IT'S POPULAR! YOU'RE SO OBSESSED BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST A LITTLE TROLL HNNNNNNNG I WISH I COULD KILL YOU FOR SAYING THESE LIES IN MY PRESENCE
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>were thoughtful, articulate, thorough, and clear.
Lol, who do you think you're fooling?
No matter how hard you try, your petty b***hing is just petty b***hing, and no amount of long-winded whining changes that.
Holy shit you're delusional if you think any of your posts in this shit thread don't reek of desperation.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
They can read the posts for themselves. Just like they can read your posts and see your impotent sperg rage for what it is, troll.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>They can read the posts for themselves
Exactly.
There's some hilariously bad attempts at presenting criticisms, that boil down to "I hate everything and let me just list the dumbest fricking ideas even if I contradict myself a little later on, because all I'm really doing is repeating shit other trolls have said or otherwise exaggerating complaints until the game I'm describing doesn't at all resemble the game I'm pretending to describe."
You pretending otherwise is genuinely laughable. It's actually funny that you are so biased you actually think any of the shit you spewed could be taken seriously by anyone.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I like it when you project. It hasn't stopped being funny yet.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
OP asked for my opinion. He got it.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're supposed to love it, though.
You're supposed to pull your punches for people who can't handle seeing bad things and criticisms said about it outside of /5eg/, Reddit, Roll20, Facebook, and Discord.
You're expected to fix all of its problems and give it credit for what you did.
You're supposed to buy all the supplements you're expected to change, and tell everyone how excited you were to play the things that weren't included with what you bought.
It's the best TTRPG, Anon, and if you don't like anything about it you're a hater who just hates it because it's popular, regardless of any structural evidence you bring up.
You can't say it sucks, because only trolls say things suck.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
NTA but this is some /misc/ level of mentally unwell rent free shit.
5es not even good but touch some grass.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
No, that's the other guy.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>There is no amount of posting that will make me stop, ever.
These are not the thoughts of a happy human being.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Happiness is not the point of life, you addict. Just because something doesn't immediately benefit you doesn't mean it's wrong. >Verification not required.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>happiness is not the point of life
While arguing about games. Games which are made for fun.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Engaging. Fun is something else. Reading about how the Hells work is engaging, it is not fun. Stimulation, simulation, innovation. A man needs his opium, but not everything should be opium.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
You don't understand the context involved.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Chronic stress is bad and game being bad shouldn’t be enough of a reason to put yourself in an early grave
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I am not going to stop saying it sucks.
Who cares.
What you can do, though, is stop being a basic b***h troll.
Just because someone mentions something that's popular doesn't mean you need to b***h about it. Hell, when an OP like this one makes an obvious troll thread, like this one, it doesn't mean you need to jump in and act like a moron, "expressing" your opinion in a place that is going to be almost nothing but basic b***h trolls b***hing about [popular thing].
No one is telling you to like D&D. But, your braindead trolling is not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself.
Go talk about games you actually play. Contribute and build up those communities, instead of being furious about the continued popularity of a game that whorishly did just about everything it could to be popular.
5e's success shouldn't mean anything to you, yet you're fricking obsessed with it.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Who cares.
You do because you're incapable of not dumping walls of text at me for my opinion.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
He thinks he can lecture you into not voicing your opinions or criticisms. It's kind of cute in a childish sort of way that he's trying to make it about anything other than his ass-blasted frustration that people are saying 5e isn't good.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
No one cares about your opinion.
The problem is you using your opinion to be a basic b***h troll.
How do you not understand this.
Let's take any other games you hate. Are you wasting your life b***hing about those games? Learning about those games just so you can b***h more about them? No? Why not act with the same passivity you hold towards the less popular games as you do the most popular one?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I will gladly shit all over any game I don't like if the topic comes up.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i will gladly be a basic b***h troll >i will treat [popular thing] as my personal trigger to start trolling
Oh what a shock.
So, you're actually commited to trolling forever, because, surprise surprise, people won't stop talking about [popular thing]. Hell, the real joke is when 5e finally does give up the crown, you'll probably just switch to b***hing about [new popular thing].
You're a basic b***h, and a basic b***h troll. Not anything to be proud of.
Take my earnest advice. Break the loop. Just go talk about games you actually play, and ignore the ones that you clearly are too biased to have any meaningful discussion about.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Hell, the real joke is when 5e finally does give up the crown, you'll probably just switch to b***hing about [new popular thing].
Yeah. He will also b***h about 6e because it will also be bad.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
If 6e is actually bad, and people actually won't play it, no one will care about it, and neither of you will b***h about it because you won't get any attention for doing so. There's actually a chance you and he will keep b***hing about 5e all the way up until 7e.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>If 6e is actually bad, and people actually won't play it, no one will care about it, and neither of you will b***h about it because you won't get any attention for doing so. There's actually a chance you and he will keep b***hing about 5e all the way up until 7e.
But 6e will be bad because it will be the same as 5e, so the same people will play it? Not sure what you don't understand. Do you think something being popular makes it good?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
The most popular things are always horribly flawed. That’s because there is a lot to complain about.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The most popular things are always horribly flawed.
Not always, but they are generally going to be at the very least overrated. No product, piece of entertainment, or person is going to be perfect.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Just go talk about games you actually play
I do. >and ignore
No.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It would be more worthy of your time to focus less attention to things that you are not the intended audience of. You'll also be less of a moron newbie if you learn how to hide and filter threads.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>you are not the intended audience of
Nice assumption.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
okay moron
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>you are not the intended audience of.
Hold on now, he's clearly a homosexual.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why do you spend so much time concerning yourself with and trying to police what other people talk about?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
NTA, but this board is dying. Half the population has left in just the last 3 years, and it's continuing to die.
Your trolling isn't helping. Hell, ironically, 5e discussion has proportionally increased thanks to it, because no other game gets anywhere near as much attention. It's actually a struggle to discuss other games on this board these days, all while 5e continues to thrive because most 5e players just ignore you while you bump their threads.
If you want 5e to be less popular here, go and discuss other games. It's fricking win-win for everyone.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's not an answer.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
How is it not an answer.
Are you asking why people should care about this board and not just use it as a shitposting vacation spot like these trolls do because they know they'd get their accounts banned on Reddit if they "expressed their opinions" there, and they're terrified of losing all their upvotes so they instead shitpost anonymously here? Is that what you're asking?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I would not get banned for expressing my opinions on Reddit.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i wouldn't get banned for going to every place that mentions D&D and complaining about it like a little b***h
If you acted there like you do here, yeah, you wouldn't last a day.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Have you considered that I don't do that?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Backseat modding is a bannable offense, mister "I just care about the quality of the board ;-;"
And considering every thread you post in is drastically lowered in quality because you keep having the same sperg out over and over, you are an active detriment encouraging people to argue with you more instead of discussing anything else. Touch brass.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Pinning trolls in troll threads improves the board by keeping you detained from the rest of it.
Ultimately though, we have seen our trolls grow increasingly desperate with their shitposting. They can't get by with just a "D&D sucks" anymore, they need to go full "D&Dogshit is only played by D&Drones and they need to stay in their containment threads and they should all kill themselves," these days, and even then most of their shitposts just get entirely ignored. At some point, our trolls will finally just break, and /tg/ may be able to start healing. Maybe the mods will change their current policies and work towards building /tg/ up again, who knows.
Either way, it's kind of concerning that you're this upset about anyone pointing out your shitposting. Were you operating under the delusion that if no one was pointing it out, it wouldn't be so obvious?
Have you really not noticed how little attention your bait gets? You should be thanking me for the attention I'm giving you, especially because it seems like one of the few things keeping you from blowing your brains out. Go on. Thank me for my kindness.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're not protecting the board from trolls. You are the troll. Once you understand that, maybe you'll actually want to have a nice day for wasting your life.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I weep for your attention span if you think posting in multiple threads is impossible.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ah, but with all the samegayging you do it's got to take some toll on ya.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>samegayging
Pure projection.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Sounds like I touched a nerve.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Can you do the world a favor and blow your brains out? Like no snarky quips or any of that bullshit, please consider suicide.
You clearly don't have anything worthwhile to live for.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
this guy has to be doing this to rile people up, I refuse to believe the shit he posts is for real
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>NTA >Trolling >dodges the question anyways
I can post in as many threads as I feel like. This is a thread about why people dislike D&D. Follow your own fricking advice instead of doing this concerned citizen shtick.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The thread is literally asking why people dislike D&D.
If you can't stand people disliking D&D, then you're the one who should have learned to hide this thread, because it was obvious that this thread would contain negative replies about D&D.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
nta but what is this larp that anyone would allow you to get within 10 feet of a gaming table?
You play as much 5e as your trolls and probably watch a dozen "YOU'RE RUNNING BEHOLDERS WRONG" videos to pretend like you know what you're talking about.
Go have a nice day.
...yes? Many, many times?
I've introduced literally hundreds of D&D players to non-D&D games over the years, alongside vice versa, as well as brand new players to all sorts of games.
I have no difficulty getting people to try new games, because I pitch games in honest and appealing ways with my own enthusiasm and love of games as the fulcrum.
Enjoy the butthurt of persecution complexed anons who require you to fit the meme affirmed by shitposting. You're the villian for enjoying the more popular game system despite it being clearly worse than all the other games you refuse to play.
Start with simple systems then. You're not going to get people into CoC or Cyberpunk unless they've already inclined towards those games, but you can pitch an idea for a game and run it in something like FUDGE, and if the idea is good, they'll jump at it.
If anything, the system is probably the last thing that needs to be considered. If you want to run a mech game, you're probably better off starting with something like Risus before actually pulling out a dedicated Mech system.
Glad to hear all the hemming and hawing when I offered to run a One-Shot in another game while our AL group's DM was out of town was a figment of my imagination.
>according to the latest /tg/ surveys, there's actually only a minority of 5e players here who have only played 5e, with most having played other systems.
Taking /tg/ surveys as evidence of your argument that pure 5e players don't exist is piss poor. The people on this board are hyper autists who hate 5e, of course they play things besides 5e. But I've interacted with normie gamers at conventions, LGS, forums, various VTTs, RPG discords and subreddits, people who only play 5e definitely exist
>The people on this board are hyper autists who hate 5e,
Wrong.
Dead wrong.
The /tg/ surveys show that /tg/ aligns itself pretty reasonably with things like book sales and roll20 stats, with 5e being far and away the most played game. /tg/ isn't as contrarian as our contrarian trolls would like us to believe.
What you are trying to do is pretend that a vocal, but extremely small minority, somehow represents /tg/. And, that's really your whole agenda, because you are a piece of shit trying to trick people.
You are willing to labor in your efforts to lie to /tg/, to tell /tg/ it hates a game, even when we have surveys that reveal that /tg/ in fact loves it.
>whoa, i can't believe a troll thread about hating d&d has trolls in it that hate D&D, and the vast majority of this board has no interest in going anywhere near it!
You a tard?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Answer the question. It's not your job to police threads, troll, shitpost, or otherwise. Why do you waste your life having the same argument every few days?
There's a lot of minor to middling issues that add up. Like bounded accuracy, the skill system lacking degrees of proficiency, the eternal casters vs martials debate, etc. Yet it's not quite bad enough to drive people away and for largely external reasons new players flock to 5e before any other system, so everyone's just sort of stuck with it. Naturally, this engenders a simmering resentment over time.
Bounded accuracy and other design choices arn't a big problem, but they don't actually stick their own stated design goals. The people who made the chasis left the company and all they got left is Black folk who know that as long as they make everything safe , tame and boring no one will come for their jobs. It's a fricking miserable way to have a game designed.
One of two reasons: >It's popular so morons who think you can gain popularity on an anonymous website hate it for the sake of contrarianism >Someone is an autistic moron who thinks that you need 30 pages of rules on everything including speaking in-character and possibly up to how your character breathes when not under duress
Bounded accuracy is a good thing, because it cuts down on imbalance and numbers bloat. Instead of the GM having to deal with a guy who has a +45 to a single skill and 0s everywhere else, or players having +20s to their attack rolls or AC of 30+ with nothing but stats, they only have to deal with up to around a +5/+6 from stats and anything else is from magic items which they control the flow of. Can't fricking stand games where there's no hard cap on the numbers because I have seen some absolutely abhorrent shit in systems other than D&D where that's the case and absolutely frick that shit. The only people who whine about bounded accuracy are the kinds of homosexual who go online and find "builds" then whine when the GM houserules something to cuck them.
They just go and tell on themselves, don't they? >dude the system is so good! I barely have to think at all! >All the single digit numbers are so much easier to handle because adding to many numbers takes too long!!
>because it cuts down on imbalance
Could have fooled me because it's massively more imbalanced than 4E. >and numbers bloat.
That's a bad thing, idiot. You're homogenizing everyone.
Mostly the play culture that surrounds it, but I also hate the general art style, the bloated stat blocks, how annoying it is to DM compared to other games, the splat books, how linear most of the adventures are, and how useless it is at any playstyle beyond fantasy superheroes.
Boring generic setting, limiting yet vague/poorly worded rules, poor balance, moronic political hamfisting that appeals to an unsustainable minority audience instead of majority audience, etc
What is there to even like about it anymore?
For simple systems Genesys is for fun and flexible imo and for more crunch heavy stuff with tons of spells and lore there are a billion other alternatives
Because it's a terrible system played by terrible people.
I don't hate 5e, I dislike its fandom.
As the system itself, it's inocuous, it's bland and uninspired, I just ignore it.
I know every games has them but it seems D&D, even OSR D&D, has the biggest ratio of idiots and that guys compared to other games. It goes beyond not reading the book and just being a self absorbed idiot throwing the game for others most of the time.
>Class system is highly restrictive, with unreasonably linear character progression
From the start of the campaign to the end, you as the player know what your character will become, because that's what the rules are. You can't decide that your character wants to train with a certain weapon or magical spell unless the DM expressly allows it with the optional rules, which most DMs will not use. >Bounded Accuracy allows low CR monsters to still threaten high level characters, which is good, but at the cost of further restricting player choice in their character's growth
Bounded Accuracy sounds like a good idea on paper, as it keeps the numbers in a manageable range. In order to do that with a d20+stat system, however, they needed to shave away as many +stat points from a d20 result as possible, so, Skill Points were removed. Now, characters are only good at what their class tells them they are. >Massive HP values ensure that a single round of combat lasts forever
Another side effect of Bounded Accuracy is improved hit chances across the board. This feels good, because it means you got a little win! Yes! I dealt damage to the enemy! This means that any substantial threat now needs high HP values to compensate for getting smacked more often. >Highly limited tactical options for Martial type characters
Attack options are laughably less impactful that just attacking. There are no called shots, just roll to hit. Weapons largely function the same, just with bigger dice for bigger weapons. The biggest offense is not being able to stop a foe from simply walking past you unmolested, because the only reaction a character has by default is to attack. Not to step in the way, not to grab - the latter is actually a rules violation! - not to use some unused movement to shift in front, no, just attack with weapon in hand.
These are just things unique to DnD, and just the basic, surface things, there are dozens more!...
>Useful rules for players hidden in the DMs guide >Two pricey books required to play, sold separately >Playmats, miniatures, sheets, all sold separately
The fricking thing is just too expensive. You're paying for the brand. Minor complaint, honestly.
>Expansions are largely just more class features, which sounds great, until you remember that you lock into those features early
The extra options are nice, but ultimately a player is still only choosing one, once, in an entire campaign.
Reminder that multiclassing and feats are optional rules, and most DMs (despite how senseless it sounds) will not allow them. >Limited adventure material in the two books required to play the game
You need to purchase adventures separately. There's a reason most run games are homebrew aka make your own fun losers.
This is worse when a bunch of the classes were designed with adventure found loot in mind. >Compressed skills result in confusing rules
Athletics is an amalgamation of skills that in previous editions were standalone swimming/climbing/jumping/etc. This makes this one skill more useful. On paper.
Acrobatics is another one of these amalgamations. As is Performance. A Jump, say, just a Jump, could fit into any of these three skills. So could a fricking handstand. >Advantage/Disadvantage is simple and 'effective', but too basic
Even the normies I've played with found issue with this system. Because it doesn't stack (remember, 5e is controlled fun), players were disappointed when their efforts to work together were met with a flat no from the DM, who was just reading the rules as they were written in the rulebook.
The design attempt here was to offer a simple yes/no when assigning whether or not a PC had a reasonable enough tactical advantage, and vice/versa. The idea being that the window for what is and isn't an advantage would be more obvious.
In the end, it just felt like they were wasting their time trying to get a proper advantage.
My DM didn't allow multiclassing until like the 30th session or so.
It fricked up with my roleplaying, but now I'd feel it'd be too awkward to take the class that actually suits him better.
I have seen DMs who won't allow variant human because they assume I am going to make an OP build with it and DMs who have not read the rulebook on how to get feats and assume they choose when to hand them out and what they are while the players don't get them instead of ability score increase
>Acrobatics is another one of these amalgamations. As is Performance. A Jump, say, just a Jump, could fit into any of these three skills. So could a fricking handstand.
Not a problem in actuality. If you're proficient with any of the skills, you get to add your PB to the ability check. But only once. You're going to have a lenient GM to let you do Strength (Performance) for this though. Certainly not Charisma (Performance).
And the description in the rules are actually pretty clear that jumping is normally intended to be a Strength (Athletics) check.
>Useful rules for players hidden in the DMs guide >Two pricey books required to play, sold separately >Playmats, miniatures, sheets, all sold separately
The fricking thing is just too expensive. You're paying for the brand. Minor complaint, honestly.
>Expansions are largely just more class features, which sounds great, until you remember that you lock into those features early
The extra options are nice, but ultimately a player is still only choosing one, once, in an entire campaign.
Reminder that multiclassing and feats are optional rules, and most DMs (despite how senseless it sounds) will not allow them. >Limited adventure material in the two books required to play the game
You need to purchase adventures separately. There's a reason most run games are homebrew aka make your own fun losers.
This is worse when a bunch of the classes were designed with adventure found loot in mind. >Compressed skills result in confusing rules
Athletics is an amalgamation of skills that in previous editions were standalone swimming/climbing/jumping/etc. This makes this one skill more useful. On paper.
Acrobatics is another one of these amalgamations. As is Performance. A Jump, say, just a Jump, could fit into any of these three skills. So could a fricking handstand. >Advantage/Disadvantage is simple and 'effective', but too basic
Even the normies I've played with found issue with this system. Because it doesn't stack (remember, 5e is controlled fun), players were disappointed when their efforts to work together were met with a flat no from the DM, who was just reading the rules as they were written in the rulebook.
The design attempt here was to offer a simple yes/no when assigning whether or not a PC had a reasonable enough tactical advantage, and vice/versa. The idea being that the window for what is and isn't an advantage would be more obvious.
In the end, it just felt like they were wasting their time trying to get a proper advantage.
>Advantage/Disadvantage part 2
Because this system is so basic, it ends up encouraging players to throw themselves at the walls of HP that are their enemies. What's worse is, because the rules are strangely liberal about how a DM assigning advantage, it ends up being harder to get it. The Rogue's Sneak Attack expressly mentions "an ally within 5ft of their target" I suspect because the mention of "advantage against the target" could be 'NEVER' with the wrong DM, so the ally nearby rule was added to make sure there was a hard baked rule for Sneak Attacks to work in the midst of combat.
Basically, you'll get advantage when the DM says so. They don't want to give advantage just because you moved around to the back, they still know you're there. A +2 or something would make much more sense here, because while the enemy knows you're there, you're still flanking them, making it more difficult for the enemy to defend themselves.
But since the scale of advantage is 'yes or no', giving any advantage in this scenario removes the distinction between literal blindside ambush in the night and having two guys walk up to you. >All these trimmed features and minimal combat options, and it's still a combat heavy game
It drags too long to be a beer and pretzels game, and there's numbers and a few books to keep if you're one of the three fun(er) classes, so beer isn't going to make it better either way. You need to have your brain turned firmly on for the combat heavy focus and implied tactical play, but the game on it's own doesn't engage your brain enough to stimulate. Maybe the latter is just a me thing...
The two things I like most about 5e are Multiclassing and Feats. These aren't even a part of the core gameplay, they're just features that help inform gameplay, the gameplay itself is unfortunately pretty stale out of the box, and to compensate, the DM needs to pull triple duty to make fun occur.
Great points, may I add? >Spells vs class features
The concept of a martial vs caster divide is far less pronounced, even in other d20 or fantasy games. Why? Because in D&D 5e, your character's access to new abilities is either prescribed class features and trading ASIs for feats, or Spells. You get a new selection of the latter every 2 levels, whereas unique class features might be spaced 3-4 levels apart. Spells are also extraordinarily more powerful. Some subclasses, like Diviner or War Domain, get both. >multiclassing
The game undermines its own class system, or rather, tries to solve its myriad issues so inelegantly that it highlights how overweight Dexterity, Wisdom, and Charisma are, by letting you leave your class behind entirely once you've unlocked its most valuable feature. Sometimes, with more frontloaded classes like Warlock, the first 1-2 levels are more valuable than anything that follows after, and so only the most naive or new player would ever take a third warlock level.
The result is that instead of creating a variety of characters, there are these 4 streamlined hodgepodges of 3+ classes, and Wizard with a 1 level dip, which are a priori mathematically engineered to be better than anything you can come up with. >Encounter balance
Don't worry, you don't have to play your Sorlockadin, Monkbarian, Rguestalker, or any of that shit. It turns out that they used "whose line is it anyway?" rules to figure out encounter balance. Everything is easy if you're making a concerted effort to win and passed 8th grade math. >It's not a game, it's a combat engine
This would be acceptable, but undesirable if we were playing a narrative-heavy RPG. We're not. Overwhelmingly and nearly all of D&D 5e's rules pertain to combat, getting into it, and resolving it. Most non-combat activities are handwaved as mother-may-I with the GM or "just roleplay it lmao." Which leads to my final complaint
>The GM crisis
No one wants to run 5e. Players outnumber GMs by something crazy. The main problem is not actually "the more you understand this game the less fun it is." Great guess, but no. The GM scarcity is caused by this being the single most hostile, unhelpful system for running a game. It gives you no help or guidance, and the burden of work it heaps on you is insane. I'd rather run current edition Shadowrun.
To add to this, the overemphasis on pre-written campaigns, like Curse of Strahd and Saltmarsh, gives people unreasonably expectations for how thoroughly everything should be laid out, and also how much work they have to put in before they can run a game. And that's on top of the fact that most of them never read the DMG or learn to use what limited tools are in there, and assume that if they can't pull of a single scene that's as good and memorable as their favorite Critical Role episode, that they aren't good enough to run the game at all.
For me the archaic game design: classes, levels and hp bloat. The kitchen sink approach to races also fills me with utter contempt.
Second the cult of the d20 and the osr it created by proxy, now we have to endure an insane amount of pretentious homosexuals parroting the school of osr design (lol, lmao even) and the torrent of shovelosr ogl games.
In summary if you care about the hobby you'll play other games and find something better almost immediately.
It is archaic and stuff defeating.
It comes from a time when you were meant to be able to roll up a character in 10 minutes or less.
If it takes you an hour to make a character, there's no reason to have levels. Just pick the features you want instead of pigeonholing people into gay archetypes decided by corporate suits.
The majority of significant new games in the fantasy genre use levels and classes, so obviously it's not archaic.
>If it takes you an hour to make a character, there's no reason to have levels. Just pick the features you want instead of pigeonholing people into gay archetypes decided by corporate suits.
You don't understand the purpose of levels if you think they exist only because of quick character creation.
>It takes an hour to create a charter
Holy fricking shit, I'm able to create DND charters under 15 min
Here I'll make this easy for you
Stats: standard array 15, 14, 13, 13, 11, 9
Race: +2 +1 for stats and a few traits
Background: 2 skill proficiency and either a gaming set, music instrument, or tool. + a buncha mostly useless items
Class: Martial have all the weapons and armors proficiency, besides monk. If you are playing a wizard, sorcerer, warlock, druid just assume you get most of the light weapons
Skills: Unless your rogue or bard you get 2 skills proficiency
There its not that hard
Nah, they want to make a story focused character, anon.
D&D is better when you assume your character is just some dude who is gonna get eaten by a monster five minutes after starting.
It's why I liked roll 3d6 down the line, pick a class you got the stats for, and run with it.
It's why I like Shadow of the Demon lord a lot too. Your stats? Yeah, pick a race. There are your stats. Let's go, you got a good chance that something is gonna make your skeleton pop out so having a backstory is moronic.
Best characters are basic rather than quirky unique concepts. Through the games themselves the characters should end up becoming unique and interesting. > Hurr I'll play a half aarakocra half kobold who's obsessed with cheese and bombards every NPC with cheese related questions. Haha.
>Nah, they want to make a story focused character, anon.
Oh then thats easy man
You roll on the random tables to make a backstory, I mean you can do that right anon?
here I can do that for you
>1d100 to see if you have parents
Roll 32 I know my parents >1d100 to roll where you were born
Roll 72 Was born in a field >1d10 for sibilings >roll 5 so 1d4+1 siblings
Roll of 1+1 so 2 sibilings >Roll 2d6 for birth order
Rolled 5 so middle child >1d100 to who raised you
Roll of 3, so a temple >1d4 to see your relation to your parents
Roll of 4, parents disappeared >3d6 for life style roll
roll of 12 so modest life >d100 for childhood home
Roll of 72 so large house >Roll 3d6+Cha mod for childhood memories
roll of 18 so everyone knew who I was and liked me >1d6 for your background
Roll of 3 on acolyte, Grew up in a religious household so serving the God was natural >1d6 for class training
Roll of 4 on barbarian, I went on a spiritual journey and found a spirit animal >D100 to find age
roll of 14 so 20 years old and one life event >d100 or life event
Roll of 89 fought in a battle, roll on War table >D12 on War table
Roll of 12 Became a hero and earned a medal from the battle
Now doing all of this which is OPTIONAL which most DMs won't care too much about, And to the DMs that DO you don't even bother with to write 2 sentences then the problem is on you.
Literally most people don't care about the "Story"
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>And to the DMs that DO you don't even bother with to write 2 sentences then the problem is on you. >Literally most people don't care about the "Story"
This is your brain on DnD.
Two reasons. >Marketing.
To the world at large, TRPGs are still just Dungeons and Dragons the same way all adhesive bandage strips are Bandaids. WotC has also successfully tapped into the geek minstrel show lifestyle branding crowd. >Idiot Proof
The rules are so dumbed down only dummies can find them engaging. But the playstyle the game intends doesn't want engaging rules. It wants you to build your steel doughnut slap them at each other like action figures.
Boring generic setting, limiting yet vague/poorly worded rules, poor balance, moronic political hamfisting that appeals to an unsustainable minority audience instead of majority audience, etc
What is there to even like about it anymore?
For simple systems Genesys is for fun and flexible imo and for more crunch heavy stuff with tons of spells and lore there are a billion other alternatives
I can't speak for anyone else. I can only speak for me. And it's a worse game than the one that came before it. I'm not going to say that 4th edition was flawless, it had its warts. But I also found it to be hands down the most fun version of D&D to play.
And a lot of what made 4e fun didn't make the trip over. Hell, a lot of what made 3.5 fun didn't make it over either. And what remains of either edition is a watered down version of it.
And yet, it's all anyone seems to want to play. Which has always been the reason I've had a slight resentment for D&D in general - that it's all anyone wants to play. And now we combine two aspects, the overwhelming presence of D&D in the tabletop space combined with this being the worst version of D&D since WoTC bought the brand.
1. It's limiting in character growth options compared to previous edition.
2. It is severely lacking in content compared to every edition before it. For the most popular version of D&D made in almost 30 years, there are straight up campaign books, no psionics, no experimental concepts (such as Magic of Incarnum), no short adventure modules, pretty much frick all for new ideas in general besides race options and backgrounds in majore modules.
3. The emphasis is on story shit as opposed to dungeoning. This is the biggest fault here. Ran as straight dudes on a map, disarming traps, searching for loot, fighting monsters, and going on a loot treadmill because that's your job? It's actually a solid game. Pretty much NOTHING in ANY sourcebook even HINTS that playing it that way is a viable option. There are rules for dungeon creation using random rolls in the DMG that do a solid job, but basically 100% of everything else is some epic quest bullshit that focuses on story related shit as opposed to leaning in to game related stuff.
4. The stuff that DOES lean into game related stuff (overland travelling hex based exploration) is VERY poorly done with frick all for discovery and instead just having combat or survival mini game shit. No random merchants selling gear, no monsters who are just chilling and not looking for a fight, no random events in general outside of a fight.
5. Once you hit level 5 in any given published adventure, you might as well stop playing because there isn't going to a challenge presented that you feels threatening at all anymore.
It's not very good and it has a stranglehold on the market so you're more likely to run into those pretentious, "a game doesn't need good mechanics, I bring the good mechanics" types who lack self awareness and have played nothing but the same generic fantasy story using the same boring system for a decade.
It's streamlined for morons and still manages to be sluggish and slow despite making 70% of its focus on combat. The combat is fricking awful and even disregarding how poorly designed classes are compared to each other, there are a slew of small quirks that are absolutely befuddling when you think about what the thought process had to be when someone wrote it out. The game is so bad that most people consider tearing out half the rule book and making shit up to be a feature and this is backed by the designers themselves.
Its fanbase is also pretty awful and most of them will never touch a non D&D game in their lives. They're the Marvel fans of the tabletop industry and they have a hard time thinking outside of the tropes of D&D.
I don't hate D&D 5e, I just operate on the understanding that it isn't a game, and its marketing is a scam.
The shills, fans, and apologists are the most insufferable homosexuals to try to have an actual discussion with; they either shift blame, move the goalposts, or deflect in bad faith. They aren't worth the headache, and even when they stop vehemently opposing the facts and crying about how much of a "hateful troll" the critics are, they reset in the next thread and pretend they haven't had this discussion before.
Worst of all, despite the fact that they're incapable of handling any bad things said about 5e, they still insist on posting dozens of threads outside their containment general. If you can't handle people telling the truth about 5e, then go back to where everyone circlejerks about it. Better yet, leave /tg/ and go on Facebook or Reddit or something.
I disliked it at least until the release of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and Monsters of the Multiverse, because it was pretty shallow from a chargen perspective (those two books provided much more engaging options) and D20 is honestly way too swingy of a core die.
As it is now I don't mind 5E so much since they managed to expand it a bit and give me stuff to gnaw on.
5e is a game system designed by cowards who were more interested in making something so blandly inoffensive that it would sell than they cared about making a game that was actually *good* for anything. The character creation options are a tiny, tiny fraction of what was available in previous editions, so thats already a bad smell that leaves 5e looking like a downgrade. But you look closer at the game and you realize that even extremely basic things, like Feats, are actually presented as unsupported *optional rules*. If you remove all of the so-called 'optional' material from the game, what you have left over is extremely bare bones. So why is so much of it presented as optional? Because they want the deniability to be able to say that its not THEIR fault that they printed bad material, they told you it was optional. Shame on you for using it. Don't irresponsibly mod your game and then complain to the published for voiding your warranty, nerd. Just because we included it in the book doesn't mean you were supposed to USE it.
As much as people rag on critical role, its extremely damning that the only character options in 5e that are not painfully boring all seem to come from Matt Mercer's table bleeding into the official material. Echo Knight is a cooler, more interesting idea than everything else in 5e and actually presents something fun to play around with. I play anything in the PHB as someone who played 3.5 and all I can think of "Where's the rest of it?"
>As much as people rag on critical role, its extremely damning that the only character options in 5e that are not painfully boring all seem to come from Matt Mercer's table bleeding into the official material.
This take is stupid as hell
Personally, I think it's very shittily written, with a lot of stuff being super vague. That includes spells where the RAI is unclear or way too op for the level, as well as "just figure it out on your own" things such as loot or whatever is the deal with tool proficiencies.
Plus there are lots of unfun rules for the sake of balance that people choose to ignore because they're unfun, and then these same people complain about balance.
Character options are lame. You get a lot to fiddle with but things that matter are extremely limited. Combat is weak: very slow and counterintuitive. Exploration is unstructured.
>Exploration
The fricked thing is the system actually does the core concept of a group on a map exploring dungeons for loot, disarming traps, and encountering monsters well.
Absolutely frick all encourages this style of play though.
That's not new. 3e and 4e were the same in that regard. 3e at least had a few supplements that were exclusively about making dungeons and traps. Just play with the rule where all skill checks made by players are hidden rolls by the DM who narrates the results of the roll instead of the number and every edition does dungeon diving pretty damn great. B/X is still the king of actual straight up Dungeoning because of how hard it leaned into that style of play, but 2e onward still does a really good job at it.
for turning the combat into a slogfest >Level 8 fighter with 16 str in OD&D kills an average of 4 hobgobins per round >Level 8 fighter with 16 str in 5e kills an average of 0.2 hobgoblins per round
Kinda strange how mob rules aren't seen as requirement in D&D still. One of the biggest pluses for Genesys is mob rules for basic enemies are standard instead of optional.
DnD still can't escape its heritage as a tabletop wargame with a thin veneer of story over it. It's not that it *couldn't* grow beyond that origin, but that would require thought and effort and if they can serve up reheated slop why not make a buck doing that instead?
My main problem with it is the perceived popularity makes it the only game in town in major stores. You go to a Barnes and Noble, they have exactly two things on the shelves: Dungeons and Dragons or Pathfinder. Maybe a VtM anniversary edition is moldering away, untouched. The potential for RPGs is so huge and its held back by that bottleneck.
To be fair, the system in WoD (old and new) and Shadowrun are straight garbage. A ton of alternative systems have neat ideas but dog shit execution. There are some better systems out there (Genesys as an example) but most are just moving away from a flawed system to an even worse system.
5e is only incidental of what i hate about the current ttrpg niche overall situation, there was a shift that started way back (around later 2e) that ultimately flipped during 5e thanks to third part tools mainly:
5e is pretty much universally supported in various ways and everywhere as the default, you can search an online srd, use various automated character builders, have relatively easy to approach map tools and vtts directly integrated with 5e content. All of these combined make 5e probably the most accessible ttrpg ever existed, which regulates the expectations its sunk-cost playerbase has with any other game out there.
On top of that there's the player-centric model that regulates the content approach: in 5e players face a buffet of options that exist as default unless noted otherwise by the GM on a situational level. That, coupled with the gamist (in gns terms) nature of d&d, creates the context of "solo journaling" or "builds" as a standalone exercise.
All of the above steadily built a divide between "(modern)D&D" and P&P TTRPGs in general as activities with different types of expectations that create whiplashes colloquially referred here as "d&d brainrot". D&D simultaneously being the de-facto gateway to the hobby as a whole and being one of the most sunk-cost leaning games of all is a tragedy that has tainted the ttrpg niche irremediably. >Inb4 reee that's not true! ttrpgs are currently more widespread than ever!
Only the anons old enough to remember the supposed ttrpg 90s crisis can understand what i'm hinting at, without A (single) gateway and without the player-centric model (coupled with abundance of accessibility tools) the whole scene got a lot of granularity and diversity.
What we got today is almost an ironic twist of fate.
Just for completeness i want to add also what I hate about d&d on a subjective level (picrel) so i can make a more definite picture that answers OP time wasting question once for all.
Poorly designed game that is over reliant on sacred cow concepts and brand identity, combined with flawed internal logic for balancing and fairness, multiplied by the legacy the game has enjoyed for decades, exponentially multiplied by the financial success and sheer dominance the game holds over the hobby, to the point that it is actually harmful to the hobby as a whole due to flooding its communities with low IQ, low skill tourists and poseurs.
It's a mediocre game, at best, with higher than average presentation, but it is elevated so far above everything else that you can't even explain what problems is verifiably, admittedly has according to its own creators, without some brainrotted homosexual haunting you for years to insist that you're just being a petty contrarian who hates something amazing just because it's popular.
Personally I was there during the playtest which is why I stayed away from it. The playtest was an absolute trash fire and it was pretty blatantly obvious the only feedback they paid attention to was anything that fit what they already wanted to do. This was really blatant when they got caught rigging the polls, and had to shut the forums down 3 times to mass ban anyone talking about it.
The only exception being the Fighter, and that was only because there was so much demand for a Fighter that wasn't complete shit that they couldn't just ignore it, and the fanbase had to practically drag Mearls kicking and screaming into the giving the Fighter options beyond "I hit it". And the result was good, it had some solid options while also being able to still just be the "I hit it" Fighter is the player really wanted to. So of course once it went into closed playtesting that Fighter was immediately trashed and we were given the Battlemaster Fighter subclass, which was basically the Good Fighter after being given several concussions.
Also dropping the playtest Sorcerer and just making it almost a carbon copy of the Wizard again was idiotic since the playtest Dragon Sorc filled a neat niche that opened up design room for other interesting Sorcerer bloodlines.
>YOU CAN DO ANNNNYYYTHIIIIING! >You can't actually do anything (well)
Its mostly this, the absolute stagnation of the D&D market pitch.
People also hate it for all kinds of tangential reasons like the nuD&D community, the politics getting jammed into it, changes to lore and fluff etc. But its mostly just because the game has become totally divorced from the only thing the rules were actually designed for and now those rules don't even do that thing particularly well.
With bounded accuracy, you are forced to not do anything well by design unless you go out of your way to weaken your character in other ways just for a small improvement on one of the skills which you will likely not be using enough to be worth it.
Hordes of Shitical Roll fans and powergamers infest modern D&D. They are literal virgin babies. Literally all the powergamers I know are actual fricking virgins in their mid-20s. Whereas all the people I play OSR with save for one are married or in serious relationships. Really says a lot about your power-fantasy power-wank games and how they make up for what a failure you are in real life.
There is literally nothing interesting or compelling about modern D&D. The only possible way to make it compelling is by the DM working explicitly against the system. 5th Edition D&D combat is (1) easy, (2) free of consequences, (3) equipped with a set of rules to let players offload blame for their failure onto the DM (challenge rating), and (4) so hilariously unbalanced it doesn't even represent anything. There's no reason not to get into a fight in 5e cause you'll just heal once you take a nap. Hit points mean literally nothing except what the DM wants them to so the game loses all context and damage becomes meaningless. Even when you die, you have to be coup-de-graced 2 more times to make sure you're actually dead. Characters get so much plot armor that level 1 becomes a hilarious Three Stooges skit and the entire game just looks like a vidya, where "dying" means you just go down so your teammates have to revive you by waving their hands over you for a few minutes. At least you remain unconscious for a bit when you do go down. Not that it matters because a high level character literally has to take 400 damage to be one-shotted. What a game.
As a long time 5e supporter; >RAW the game is alot more restrictive than people give it credit for >Poorly balanced in many places so you have to do house rules/mods keep things kosher >Popularity means it pushed out alot of other good TTRPGs from the zeitgeist >This also means people will demand 5e at tables instead of trying other systems which might fit their game or playstyle better. >Fanbase is populated by secondaries and casuals who care more about virtue signalling than pushing the game in a better direction.
Might be missing a couple but imagine if you knew a guy who demanded you ate at the same exact restaurant everytime you hung out and would not accept anything else.
Thats the 5e fanbase.
I also want to add to this and say I cant stand the fricking stat weights or skills in 5e.
Really think just how prevalent and constant something like Perception and Insight is vs. Religion, Nature, or fricking ANIMAL HANDLING.
You think oh Im customizing my character and giving them proficiencies in certain things to express who they are.
Yeah have fun making maybe 5 Animal Handling checks in an entire campaign
Skills are not meant to be equal. That's why some classes have easier access to some more than others, and why certain stats boost certain skills.
You need to look at the bigger picture. Kind of like how Eldritch Blast is by far the best attacking cantrip, but that's because it's stapled to a class that focused on attacking cantrips and no other class has access to it.
>Skills are not meant to be equal
Thats bad game design. Thats such a fricking pitfall for uneducated new players, or a super restrictive caveat for experienced players who want to customize a character.
It fricking sucks and Im tired of pretending it doesnt.
Not being able to use animal handling more often is a skill issue from the players. Animals are literally in the phb for purchase so you should be making checks all the time if you actually wanted to engage with the resources presented to you in the book.
Next you b***h about not being able to use persuasion because you fricking lie at every chance you get
Sweet summer child, it's game design.
Not good, not bad. It's has elements of both.
You need to graduate from this idea that mechanics only exist as all benefits or all drawbacks, and learn some pretty basic things like "If all things were equally balanced, they would lack all mechanical distinction." If you actually wanted all skills and stats to be equal among all members of the party and all party members to be absolutely equal in capability in all circumstances, you would have to strip the game of literally any form of mechanical distinction. Suddenly, it becomes apparent that forms of inequality are neccesary, and tooting the horn of "All things must be equal" is arguing in an extremely short-sighted sense.
Perception is overpowered largely thanks to novice DMs calling for perception checks every ten feet. You're right, in that it's overpowered compared to something like swimming in a desert campaign. However, in an aquatic campaign with many swimming challenges and few hidden enemies, Swimming suddenly becomes overpowered compared to Perception.
Ultimately, what we're looking at is a very short "pitfall". A pitfall that most players, after even just one session, will realize that yes, perception is a very good skill, and they'll invest in it more than something like animal handling. This isn't some genius realization you're expressing to the world, it's something just about everyone knows, an easy decision. And, easy decisions benefit games. They help players to feel like they're making the "right" decisions, and they can see those choices rewarded as early as their second or even first session.
It may sound like I'm over-defending the decision, but that's just because you've never considered the positive aspects and have only focused on the negatives. While I personally prefer skill systems to be more balanced, I also understand the benefits of 5e's approach, and you would do well to consider them even beyond what I've laid down here.
I'd love to read all of that if you could not start your explanation like the most insufferable of homosexuals.
Unironically go back to your upvote cesspit you fricking tourist
>You need to graduate from this idea that mechanics only exist as all benefits or all drawbacks, and learn some pretty basic things like
You need to graduate from life and learn some pretty basic things like how to tie a noose moron
have a nice day.
>You need to graduate from this idea that mechanics only exist as all benefits or all drawbacks, and learn some pretty basic things like "If all things were equally balanced, they would lack all mechanical distinction."
Yeah, that's why the Protoss, Zerg, and Terran all have exactly the same units.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
And?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Perhaps what you thought is "balanced" is only "reasonably balanced but actually skewed towards protoss being the strongest."
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>easiest to execute
Fixed that for you.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Rock Paper Scissors doesn't have players equally play each hand, despite the fact that they are obviously all mechanically identical.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
In RPS tournaments, all three hands tend to be rather equally distributed, because top level players rely on pre-randomized strategies to prevent personal bias coming into play.
But, you did demonstrate that even something as simple as the fluff attached to a mechanic can make it unbalanced, ie. Paper being generally the strongest hand to throw among casual players thanks to casual players having a psychological disposition towards throwing rock first, and scissors becoming stronger among more experienced players, all the way up to the top where players rely on pure random chance to prevent themselves from having any strategy their opponents could take advantage of.
>Sweet summer child
Every time someone uses this, it's always followed by the worst take imaginable.
It's like fricking clockwork.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Are you really so mad about being laid out that you're going to continue to avoid acknowledging you can't refute anything that was said? Sounds pretty petty.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I understand where anon is coming from. It does disservice to whatever point the person is trying to make by poisoning the well immediately with an insufferable tone that presents itself as infantilizing.
Is it petty to disregard what COULD be good reasoning simply because you're acting like a huge homosexual in the process? Maybe not but you shouldn't be surprised that it isn't received warmly.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>maybe or maybe not
This isn't worth the effort deleting and fixing in repost
Its not a pitfall at all if you have common fricking sense. Every character is not going to be equally capable, you should know that from REALITY and know that if you choose to play a character less capable at the core gameplay, you're going to have to stomach not always being the best at everything and/or be very creative and self-motivated to find solutions to problems within your wheelhouse.
Making every single character equally powerful by giving every character different flavors of bullshittium to expend is not only lazy, it also becomes rapidly incoherent.
My point more stems in how just unbelievably underutilized and borderline useless a good number of the skills are.
Even taking published material and tallying everything up its insane how powerful Perception and Insight are RAW vs. much more niche skills.
Now if those very niche skills like Nature, Arcana, Animal Handling, etc. had the caveat of "okay theyre much less common, but as a trade off theyre much more rewarding to succeed on" Id agree.
But in your average game of 5e its much more important just give yourself Perception, Insight, and Acrobatics/Athletics because without them youre not going to survive long enough to make taking that Arcana proficiency worth it.
It just homogenizes how you should create a character over your vision of said character.
Its boring.
Ask anybody with brains and theyll tell you the best way to "build" a character is PRIMARY STAT>CON>WIS and then everything else is basically dump/filler.
Thats not even minmaxxer talk. Thats what 5e as a system INCENTIVIZES you to do.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
This is a problem of 5e's scope (pretending its an everything game) and not so much an inherent flaw of game design.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It’s not really a flaw if you read the book and don’t get bamboozled by strangers
From my experience DMing it once:
- Combat is slow but not tactically deep. I've enjoyed both mechanically meaty combat (e.g. Exalted 3e) or light combat (e.g. Mothership).
- Combat intended to be a constant feature of the setting, thus multiple encounters per day, unlike virtually every RPG that isn't a D&D-alike, where combat is a "once in a while" feature.
- The word "might" occurs in the DMG 500+ times because virtually all of the advice there is of the form "maybe you could do A, or B, or C. No I will not tell you why you would do any of these over the others."
- Basic gameplay procedures (e.g. costs of magic items) simply do not exist.
It's basically a sluggish, uninteresting, but overly detailed combat engine, with fluffy nothing everywhere else. Trash.
>multiple encounters a day
thats a "my group" problem, but in my group we have like 1 encounter, max 3 and then like 1-3 sessions without any encounter just talking.
everyone can just blow all their recources into basic enemies without problem. i hate it.
i´m glad we are doing a book adventure now. the spread is as it should be.
>thats a "my group" problem,
Technically it's a "your group" solution. The DMG suggests you should run X amount of encounters a day. If you aren't doing it, then it's your groups solution. Other Dms, like the ones in AL, WILL run the X encounters a day.
>Combat is slow but not tactically deep
Between the base rules and variant rules in the DMG, there's enough there to get some mileage, especially if you're not a moron who makes every room a 10x10 cube with no cover, elevation, etc. >Combat intended to be a constant feature of the setting, thus multiple encounters per day, unlike virtually every RPG that isn't a D&D-alike, where combat is a "once in a while" feature.
Also untrue, most TTRPGs have rules for combat and see it occur frequently (i.e., the Star Wars system by West End Games which is anything BUT a D&Dalike, where combat is an extension of the skill system). >The word "might" occurs in the DMG 500+ times because virtually all of the advice there is of the form "maybe you could do A, or B, or C. No I will not tell you why you would do any of these over the others."
This is fine, because only autistic morons can't handle on the fly decision making and thus should not run or play TTRPGs.You need to be ready to adapt to what the players do, and the freedom to do just about anything is the biggest strength of TTRPGs now that video games have largely usurped their place as b***h basic dungeon crawlers. >Basic gameplay procedures (e.g. costs of magic items) simply do not exist.
This is objectively false, especially the magic items thing. Xanathar's Guide added a whole slew of rules for magic items, including both a base price and a rolled price table as well as rules for complications and bartering. >BUT IT ISNT CORE-
It's still an officially printed splat, and if it was 3.X you wouldn't even whisper a complaint about it not being core because you 3aboos love your bloatware.
>Between the base rules and variant rules in the DMG, there's enough there to get some mileage
There really isn't. Tactical play is curtailed by the mechanics and the 'tactical' optional rules like flanking reduce depth because of how shoddily put together the game is.
>Between the base rules and variant rules in the DMG, there's enough there to get some mileage, especially if you're not a moron who makes every room a 10x10 cube with no cover, elevation, etc.
If I reinvent the entire system from scratch I can make combat good, yes, but it will still be slow and every monster in the book will be a bag of hit points + multiattack.
>Also untrue, most TTRPGs have rules for combat and see it occur frequently (i.e., the Star Wars system by West End Games which is anything BUT a D&Dalike, where combat is an extension of the skill system).
Combat existing in the game world != what D&D does to combat.
In Exalted or Mothership, combat is - in universe - a rare, story-important moment. A Wyld Hunt has managed to isolate you and are trying to kill you. An alien is crawling through the ventilation.
In D&D, you are expected to wade through one dungeon room full of orcs, then move on to the next dungeon room with a golem in it, then fight the zombies in the next dungeon room, all basically back-to-back.
>This is fine, because only autistic morons can't handle on the fly decision making and thus should not run or play TTRPGs.You need to be ready to adapt to what the players do, and the freedom to do just about anything is the biggest strength of TTRPGs now that video games have largely usurped their place as b***h basic dungeon crawlers.
>This is objectively false, especially the magic items thing. Xanathar's Guide added a whole slew of rules for magic items, including both a base price and a rolled price table as well as rules for complications and bartering.
If I have to make up all the rules and rulings and principles and buy six more books etc etc, why the FRICK would I pay money for this dogshit game? Fricking moronic-ass D&D player whose brain is literally dribbling out of his fricking skull because he's been choking out on WotC's dick for too long.
>i see word and i do word association to declare this some evil guy who is just trolling
No, the system is bad, and you are bad for defending it. It is a sluggish, flat combat system with fluffy nothing arranged around it, and I feel genuinely sorry for everyone who has their introduction to GMing being 5e.
I'm actually kind of glad that the moron has managed to figure out how to torpedo any of his own posts just by including a few choice phrases he's desperately been trying to force. Saves everyone the trouble of giving him a shred of the benefit of the doubt.
Whoa, trying to reframe my posts because they can't be refuted? Let's not get greasy here.
If you actually feel sorry for these dumb c**ts for being treated like morons, I can only guess you sympathize with them, and it takes a moron to have any sort of sympathy for these morons.
So, go ahead and frick off as well, you sweet summer child.
The trick to samegayging is not to reply to yourself in the same exact style as the posts you're replying you, my sweet greasy moron.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Unlike you, mr. samegayging expert, I don't do greasy shit.
lol I JUST played a game of 5e yesterday from not playing it in like 8 years or something. I've been playing other systems like Dungeon world, the Apocalypse engine, Fantasy craft, SotDL, SotWW, and I'm looking into Crown and Skull right now.
and HOLY SHIT, 5e is a fricking disaster of a game. I didn't realize until I was out of it all this time.
They don't. Ganker has to act contrarian because just as NPCs mindlessly consooooom so too does Ganker reeeeeaaaaact. If the mainstream said eating shit was bad, don't do it, anyone who does it is a bigot, you'd see threads here with people proudly proclaiming shit eating superiority.
>Ganker has to act contrarian because just as NPCs mindlessly consooooom so too does Ganker reeeeeaaaaact.
While Ganker is usually reactionary, Ganker is a very large group of people with different unfiltered ideas. The reason why /vt/ was created is because vtubers were so fricking popular, they needed a containment zone. If your hypothesis was correct, "Ganker" would hate vtubers, but this is not the case as we see with /vt/, but you can also point to /mlp/ and furries in general in /b/.
>/tg/ is Ganker
I've been here since 2009 and you are incorrect. refer to >>>/vt/. Hell, video games are incredibly popular, we have a very popular Ganker board. So I don't know why you are arguing that Ganker, as a whole, is contrarian.
So let me get this straight. An anon said Ganker is contrarian and your immediate reaction was to type a post detailing why "actually nuh-uh"? Anon, I...
@92432508 >popularity=/=bad
never said that. For instance, Helldivers is a good game and it is popular. These are two statements, they are different. Dnd 5e is a bad game and it is popular. >There's plenty of worse games out there
Sure, Fatal is a game. >obsessing about a game you don't even play
I'm the anon who played it yesterday and remembered why I don't play it. I think you are more obsessed with "trolling" or sucking WotC wiener. I think it's more trolling because of how you are writing. makes your peepee a little bigger when you see the red exclamation marks on your browser. I understand that you want attention, but this is not the way to go about it. >solely because it's popular and that makes you mad
I'm mad because I wasted time playing it yesterday, and now I have to finish what I started and waste more of my time. I'm more mad at myself really.
DnD 5e is just a board game at this point.
If you want real RP look somewhere else like Call of Cthulhu or something.
I still don't understand how people can sit there and roll damage dice for 2 hours, shit is boring as frick.
CoC is for theatergays. What's truly hard to understand is how people can sit there and just talk as if they're some 1920s professor or investigator for literally the entire session because you'll be doing NOTHING exciting until the very end, where the monster is revealed and kills you all or drives you all insane without you bejng able to do a single thing about it. I'm here to play a GAME homosexual.
I'm sort of a newbie to ttrpgs, started playing 5e last september and, while I've enjoyed it, it feels like a lot of it is written poorly so it's up to DM to rule how things will work.
Tried FATE afterwards for a mini campaign and it seemed suitable due to how unique the setting was, but I didn't like the system much due to it being way more "cooperative storytelling" than "game".
5e campaign is still ongoing but DM wants to switch to Pathfinder 2e. At first it seemed cool, but the more I read about it, the worse it looks, but I'll be open to try, I guess. Although maybe I'm just being affected by how much DM shits on the current campaign before even finishing it.
>truth seekers
Which is why we need to be careful about contrarians.
Contrarians don't care about the truth, the just want to run contrary to popular opinion, even if popular opinion happens to be right.
It's very easy for people to make the mistake of imagining that contrarians willing to fight for their unpopular beliefs are fighting for the truth, but when that "fighting" just manifests as anonymously b***hing about anything that's popular whenever that popular thing gets mentioned, it really just becomes a new form of biased misinformation.
>Having children is immoral and evil as frick
If shit hits the fan I will make my personal mission to shoot every anti humanist, nihilist, cynic frick in the head.
Here's a reminder for you:
If this were in favor of arguments on the other side of the political spectrum, there would be three times as many replies and they'd all be crying about /misc/.
These threads never contain arguments that go deeper than personal taste and mostly contain falsehoods that can be disproved just by reading the PHB and DMG again.
Also, changing to a different system doesn't do jack shit if the players don't change their mindset as well.
>Also, changing to a different system doesn't do jack shit if the players don't change their mindset as well.
what do you think people are talking about when they describe DnD brainrot?
lol, you're treating it like a buzzword because you're a moron.
i'll give you a heads up why everyone thinks you're a frickhead
if you exaggerate the negatives of anything and ignore all the positives, you're just a dumb c**t.
>i'll give you a heads up why everyone thinks you're a frickhead
nta but please have a nice day on behalf of everyone who has ever had the displeasure of interacting with you.
What a fricking pussy you have to be to pretend as though there's some kind of hidden majority there to back you up, as if your aware you're too fricking weak willed to be confident in your own opinion.
your mom took my dick out of her mouth just long enough to tell me you look like.a moron.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>your mom took my dick out of her mouth just long enough to tell me you look like.a moron.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
looks like you're too busy thinking about my wiener to make a reply
runs in the family i guess.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>everyone >everyone >everyone >everyone
You got caught being fricking pathetic. I'm not interested in insulting you outside of what I can directly observe, which is your reddit tier "please approve of my opinions and validate me" ass post. Why would even pretend to be speaking for a larger audience? Just same gay, you're clearly not above it.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
don't believe me? try this.
go outside, scream "BOUNDED ACCURACY MAKES ME SO FRICKING UPSET" for hours
and see how many people call you a homosexual.
i'm betting it's gonna be everyone.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I cannot express enough how much I do not give two shits about you outside of your immediate failures.
You don't exist outside of some pathetic moron who uses an invisible crowd to build the confidence enough to argue anonymously online. I don't give two shits about your original point, you're fricking pathetic for relying on "muh imaginary people" to make a point.
You'd still be pathetic if you were relying on a majority of people. You think cause a majority of people eat shit, that would suddenly make it a gourmet meal? The fact that you feel the need to double down at all proves to me you already know you're a spineless frick who can't stand on their own two legs in an argument, how the hell do you have such a low opinion of yourself you don't feel confident on an anonymous goddamn forum without the safety blanket of normies?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>dies of cringe
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
lol, all this text because you know everyone would call you a homosexual because you're acting like a homosexual.
Yeah, and nobody DMs it because the system is an absolute trash fire to DM.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Are you looking for a fun and engaging way to empower your students to become more confident, tackle challenges head-on, and learn perseverance? Download the NEW Puzzles, Mazes, and Mysteries D&D-inspired teaching kits for grades 4-6 and 6-8!
you fricking telling me that you struggle to dm a game designed for fricking children? you dumb or something?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I might as well be doing all the work myself for all the system helps me and that's discounting it constantly getting in the way.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Can't even run game designed for children.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Children are too stupid to realize that they're being hoodwinked.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It has the most GMs by a wide, wide country mile.
The issue is just that naturally, players will outpace GMs. It takes longer to be a GM in any game than it does to be a player, so that's just the natural way of things.
5e's GMing disparity problem doesn't come from that it's hard to GM, it's that it's just that it's too popular for its own good, and the ratio of GM:Player is not a linear constant. As more and more casual players are added to the pool, the disparity will rise, and this will hold true for literally any game. Hell, many less popular games suffer from the inverse problem, because it has many "invested" people willing the GM, but not enough more "casual" people.
For any game, the initial pool of players will be more "invested", and as the player base expands, it will grow more "casual". And, ultimately, the GM:Player ratio will favor the Players more and more. What makes 5e special is that no other game has, according to WotC spokesman so take this with a grain of salt, sold as well or as quickly. It sold more in its first month than 97% of games sell in their entire lifetimes. We're talking about industry warping growth that's amazingly still continuing, making WotC push back the next edition despite it being a decade since the game came out and the previous edition only lasting for 6 years and the previous previous edition lasting for only 8, with a .5 release after only 3 years.
5e is a bizarre animal.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It has the most GMs by a wide, wide country mile.
Yeah, and there are more members of the CPC than there are voters in Germany. Guess that means China is more democratic, huh?
D&D is uniquely stuck in a position of choking on fumes trying to find GMs, because other RPG systems actually include useful GM advice, guidance, mechanics, structure, etc. Other RPG devs know that they need to onboard GMs and make it easy, while 5e's DMG was clearly written by somebody terrified by offending existing GMs from previous editions by actually providing any concrete advice or procedures.
>fluffy nothing arranged around it
what the frick are you talking about?
There are virtually no rules for anything outside of combat. The DC chart doesn't even explain what it means by "easy". I am sure you will slurp WotC's dick down your throat to explain how this is fine and epic and great, actually, because you can simply figure out what "easy" means (easy for a pro? easy for a pro under stress? easy for an amateur? easy for an amateur under stress?), but there is no reason to charge $50 for a book of such vacuous, empty, nothing content, nor to defend it. But you will. You will because you cannot accept that you have invested so much time into such a trash system.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>what does easy mean? help me WotC I can't figure it out.
Most people can accomplish a DC 5 task with little chance of failure.
Then ask yourself, "Is this task's difficulty easy, moderate, or hard?" If the only DCs you ever use are 10, 15, and 20, your game will run just fine. Keep in mind that a character with a 10 in the associated ability and no proficiency will succeed at an easy task around 50 percent of the time.
illiterate?
>Also pirate things you fricking idiot, all this shit is online
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're exaggerating to the point of lying.
5e is one of the easiest games to run. There's mountains of tools, both official and unofficial, for any GM, including full play examples that some people just literally watch like they think it's a form of entertainment.
Holy frick, now that I'm actually looking at what you wrote, I can't even figure out a way for you to be more wrong than you are. Hell, the 5e DM's guide is so easy and clear even young children are playing 5e. I mean, fricking hell, there's literally thousands of guides online on how to play (including hundreds of official and semi-official ones), dozens of websites, and no shortage of youtube videos desperately vying for people's attention and trying to teach them everything from how to play to how to play in a way that is trans-friendly if anyone was interested in that for some ungodly reason.
You can literally go from novice to GM in less than an hour, but I'm guessing it seems like most people just naturally enjoy playing more than GMing.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Things outside of the books are not features of a game.
>You can literally go from novice to GM in less than an hour, but I'm guessing it seems like most people just naturally enjoy playing more than GMing.
Amazing that 5e still manages to have a shortage of people actually willing and able to run the game since they consider it too difficult, despite this claim.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Things outside of the books are not features of a game.
It is when we're talking about official apps, the official website, and videos sponsored by the company, alongside materials published on their platform.
And please, listen to a word I've said. >most people just naturally enjoy playing more than GMing.
When you read that, don't forget- >the ratio of GM:Player is not a linear constant. As more and more casual players are added to the pool, the disparity will rise, and this will hold true for literally any game.
5e's DM disparity issue shouldn't be a surprise, especially because that disparity is largely just something that exists online, where the format for games and composition of groups is quite different. And, above all else, if any game was even remotely as popular as 5e has grown to be, it would see similar stresses. Your "The ratio hasn't remained consistent, that means that there's something wrong with GMing in 5e!" theory just doesn't hold any weight, and has about as much merit (or actually, maybe less) as "Whoa, playing 5e is too much fun, they need to tone it down!"
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The fact that a significant portion of 5e players need a site like D&D Beyond to make their characters for them is an extremely bad sign. It does make things easier, but it fosters a lack of understanding, which is baffling considering how dumbed down 5e is.
As for the DM to Player ratio, 5e's is noticeably bad and it's both because of the way the game was designed, presented, and sold, but also because of the kind of community that was grown around it. That's not so much WotC's fault directly, as there's only so much they could do to foster the community and in most cases they have let everyone else do it for them. However, if you are someone looking to play D&D with other D&D players, the quality of the community is a concern, although still not a direct feature of the game in a literal sense.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>significant portion of 5e players need a site like D&D Beyond
i believe its just a general issue in which people are getting more dependent on technology without understanding how things work just in general
like AI, its cool and all, but also, people use it to write essays, code, make pictures, answer questions, etc.
if you think that using a tool like dndbeyond is bad, think of the next generation using chatgpt for homework
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i believe its just a general issue in which people are getting more dependent on technology without understanding how things work just in general
Probably to some extent, but it's also true that TTRPGs used to be a nerd hobby. That meant players were, generally, smart enough to have all their shit memorized. 5e is definitely the most well know game, which has brought in, quite frankly, a lot of low quality players who can't memorize their shit. D&D Beyond solves that problem by making it easy to look up their stuff because they are constantly needing to double check what their characters/spells/feats do.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>has brought in, quite frankly, a lot of low quality players who can't memorize their shit
I'm sure you had instantly memorized everything about your first game when you had just started playing RPGs. Ease off the new players a little.
Like, I get it. I have endured the friend's girlfriend who's been "playing" for three years and still needs attack rolls explained to her every fricking game. But, you generally have to give new players some slack, and also recognize people can bring more to a game than just the ability to recite the rules.
One guy I've played with is absolutely terrible with rules, but is still excellent to play with because he's just naturally charismatic and knows how to work well within a group. Even though he sucks at math and can't memorize even the most basic abilities, he's still hugely a net positive to any game he's a part of because he knows how to make a party feel cohesive and actually enjoyable to be in.
Between him and some c**t of a rules lawyer, I'd take him any day. While I'd definitely prefer if he'd actually fricking learn the rules, I don't really hold it against him because he's basically more golden retriever than human.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm not bagging on new players, I get it. I'm just saying that the exact type of people you described are probably contributing to D&D Beyond's success. Old grogs who dream about AD&D character sheets are not the target demographic for the platform.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The fact that a significant portion of 5e players need a site like D&D Beyond
Need? Do they? How do you know they're not just electing to use an app because it's free, readily available, widely advertised, and makes the process easier? You know, acting rationally?
Also, what portion is "significant"? Where are you getting your numbers from? Your imagination?
For frick's sake. I know you're just sort of trolling around, but frick me at least go somewhere NEAR reality instead of just trying to extrapolate ideas out of your butthole.
I've seen you try and use this GM:Player ratio argument before, but you really don't seem to appreciate just how silly your whole attempt is, because I'm betting if it were the other way around, as it is with most games at the moment thanks to D&D sucking up all the "casual" type of people who gravitate more towards being a player, you would be saying that there was something fundamentally wrong with 5e because it didn't have enough players.
Right now, non-5e GMs are expressing difficulty finding players. Some have even voiced those complaints in this very thread. Are you going to say "There must be something fundamentally wrong with playing those games", or are you going to just accept that different kind of people gravitate towards being GMs and players, and that 5e's current ratio is a result of having successfully cornered just about the entirety of the more casual type of person who is naturally more inclined to be a player rather than a GM? Hell, it didn't just corner that market, it dramatically expanded it, introducing even more people into the hobby. And, while more casual people may upset more invested people with high purity standards, casual people eventually grow more invested. It's kind of like complaining about a field being muddy after its been tilled without realizing that it's just one step before we get crops.
>5e's is noticeably bad
Your ass isn't facts. Let's try to stick to facts.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Quiet greasy boy. The adults are talking.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Man, frick off.
God, you're so fricking greasy that you're even petty about being called greasy.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Awfully greasy posts you're making there.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>5e is one of the easiest games to run
No
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>5e is one of the easiest games to run
Yes
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Let's have a race.
First guy to get 10 groups of four players each playing a game wins.
What system are you picking?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
No one runs 5e cause the people it attracts, simple as.
>buzzword
It's literally the term that WotC themselves used to describe the overarching design philosophy that informs character progression, CR balancing, monster design, and the overall feel of the game. It's also been discussed to death for the past decade, so apologies that you were not spoonfed an exhaustive dissertation that met your incredibly high intellectual standards, because you wouldn't read it anyways, and retreat into your usual kicking and screaming.
Yeah, it's the term WotC used, but hardly the buzzword you're trying to turn it into,
You're like one of those trolls who try to shitpost about "Caster supremacy" in 5e, without realizing all they're doing is recycling dumb arguments from two editions ago. Or the "HP Bloat" moron who is just taking complaints from 4e and trying to pass it on to 5e, where the exact opposite problem (damage being capable of dramatically outpacing HP) exists. You like catchy phrases, and have no problem jumping on WotC's wagon and trying to appropriate a catchy phrase they used.
In short, you're trying to spin up some complaints about something you don't really understand. All you want to do is gather enough text that you can SOUND like you imagine people who know what they're talking about sound like, but you have no idea that all the text you gathered sounds stupid because you genuinely don't know any better.
And this is the best case scenario, where you're just mildly moronic. The worst case is you doubling down and pretending these are your own, genuine opinions, because at that point you're terminally moronic and doctors should contact your loved ones because you're just too stupid for this world and you don't have much time left.
It's fascinating that you think people who do not meet your arbitrary standard of opinion legitimacy cannot have meaningful, informed beliefs and criticisms, while at the same time, openly displaying that you will take any any all complaints or criticisms in bad faith and dismiss them because they conflict with your deep brainrot.
People genuinely, sincerely, objectively believe that 5e is a bad game, no matter how obsessively you want to believe it's all a desperate act to spite you, and you alone, because you have repeatedly admitted that any criticism of 5e sends you into an inconsolable tard rage.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nobody has ever thought a single thing you've ever said has ever been witty or intelligent.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
No one can be as dumb as you're pretending to be.
That's really it. Anyone who's actually played the game sees right through you, which is why it's so easy to confidently call you out. The joke is that you're pretending to have enough experience with the game to comment on it, when all you've ever illustrated is that if you did indeed ever play the game, you managed to accomplish one of the rarest feats of 5e; playing it wrong.
It takes either a special kind of stupid or a an even greater kind of deliberate stupidity to play an RPG wrong, and yet here you are, leaving no room for anyone to think of you as anything other than one of those two kinds of idiots.
Just take the L and admit you've never played the game and are just badly pretending that you have your own opinions on it, because the alternative is that you're actually as dumb as you're pretending to be.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You can shout "UR DUMB" over and over again, but it's only conceding that you are only interested in unconditionally defending 5e because you have brainrot.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
There you go again trying to force a phrase.
Christ, you're a greasy loser.
Look, no one is "unconditionally defending 5e". You don't need to leap to that level of hyperbole just to try and find some kind of ground to stand on, you greasy shit.
What you do, and keep doing, is taking something from 5e, trying to work your little greasy brain on all the things that might potentially be bad about it, exaggerate it and use hyperbole, and then imagine you've made something that could be mistaken for an unbiased and well-thought out argument when all you've done is demonstrated that you're a greasy c**t willing to perform intense mental gymnastics.
So, quit it with all your greasy little "tactics." All you want to do is complain, and no one is fooled otherwise, especially because it's very clear all you can do is complain. Hell, if 5e gave you a million dollars, you'd complain the suitcase was too heavy.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
When you refuse to accept that anyone could have any reason to dislike 5e, and then ascribe an elaborate paranoid delusion about their ulterior motives, you are unconditionally defending 5e. It's what you always do. It's what you've always done. You believe 5e is beyond reproach and despite engaging in these arguments incessantly, you never ever entertain the idea that 5e has problems that could make people dislike it enough to say so on the internet.
You have severe mental problems and you've shown as much repeatedly in this thread alone. In the context that you've done this exact same shit for years, it paints an even more dire picture that you have a manic obsession with 5e and defending it, and feel an obvious compulsion to engage in these pitiful debate club antics where you immediately lose your cool and result to slinging insults like a child having a temper tantrum because you refuse to accept that 5e is a bad game with problems.
Or, if we want to keep it short, you have brainrot and you're a moronic homosexual with no life.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>When you refuse to accept that anyone could have any reason to dislike 5e
You greasy loser, you're harping about bounded accuracy like you think it killed your father and raped your mother.
Frick off. This isn't some hypothetical scenario. This is you being a little b***h, right in this very thread, for everyone to see.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
nta but why is it that you're only capable of communicating in that moronic pseudo intellectual reddit speak acting like a 15 year old boy whose xbox got taken away?
It's either "oh you sweet summer child, let me spill the tea for you sis" or "dumb homosexual, lmao your so fricking stupid lol"
The frick is wrong with you?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Whoa, trying to reframe my posts because they can't be refuted? Let's not get greasy here.
If you actually feel sorry for these dumb c**ts for being treated like morons, I can only guess you sympathize with them, and it takes a moron to have any sort of sympathy for these morons.
So, go ahead and frick off as well, you sweet summer child.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Everyone can see it just fine. And every time you do this, more people recognize that it's you, the schizo crying about trolls and defending 5e as if it were your mother, and then they tell you to frick off and have a nice day repeatedly. But go on and think that you've got an audience cheering you on as you do battle with "/tg/'s worst troll" as if you didn't have enough delusions already.
>You're like one of those trolls who try to shitpost about "Caster supremacy" in 5e, without realizing all they're doing is recycling dumb arguments from two editions ago. Or the "HP Bloat" moron who is just taking complaints from 4e and trying to pass it on to 5e, where the exact opposite problem (damage being capable of dramatically outpacing HP) exists.
Those aren't trolls. They're literally right.
Long time reader first time poster in this thread. Saying that you can reaffirm the objective truth by reading the books has a very religious fundie element to it. If I ever doubt in dnd5e I can simply reread the PHB and know that WOTC loves me, and by reciting the holy prayer of the armour table I will be saved from the sinful temptation of Satan who is trying to seduce me into playing another game. Very cool but weird attitude.
I'm going to be real. I thought I hated D&D, but the issue was I was only familiar with 3e. Baldur's Gate 3 actually completely changed my opinion on D&D as a system as it has so far been my only exposure to 5e and honestly 5e is a great system. It's simple, AC is still fricking dumb, but it's not nearly as total bullshit as 3.5e which is both one of the most needlessly complex systems I've interacted with while achieving nothing through the needless, bloated complexity. Pathfinder too because it's also based off of that abomination of a ruleset.
Mind I'm not against good complexity, I love the GURPS system. But holy fricking christ do I hate how old D&D handled weapon proficiencies, combat in general, and would punish you for taking non combat orientated roles.
Dungeoneering isn't about punching things in the face dumbass, there's things like logistics and other roles in the party. You should be able to roleplay as a cook in the party without nuking your combat role, or for that matter having everything revolve around combat either. I don't need to get my willies by punching imaginary goblins. That's just a road to completely repetitive, meaningless action slop.
>You should be able to roleplay as a cook in the party without nuking your combat role
If your DM is requiring you to actually take feats or something to do basic human functions he's a shit DM.
If you're trying to play a full-time non-adventurer, you're a shit player.
Isn't the combat feat system still based on 5e? One of the things I fricking despised in the old editions was how martial worked and the need to take proficiencies in specific weapons vs as a group. Whoever came up with that idea should be shot, repeatedly.
Yeah how they killed bounded accuracy, made resting inconsequential, moronic op haste multi attack, mmo set bonuses, shove and jump existing the way they do, no dodge action, terrible larian writing and characters where the level 1 wizard was literally fricking the god of magic, no evil ending epilogue.
Yes. Larian identified what made 5E shit early on and made it clear they did. That's why weapons have their own abilities, they gave you extra bonus action tools, dropped enemy HP like a rock, gave you tons of environmental interactions, and changed the way some spells worked.
And it's still not a good game because they didn't go far enough.
It's not really D&D so I don't care for it.
But it's not really hatred so much as I don't care about it in the same way I don't care about Sword Lesbians or Daggerheart. It's just not in my sphere of interest at all and what little i've seen of the people who play it seems offputting.
Being the most popular does not mean it's good. The fact that it is not good is why /tg/, and the dedicated RPG community does not like that brand recognition and free word of mouth from "5e is newbie friendly!" morons who have never played another game allows D&D to be successful despite its many failings and WotC/Hasbro's moronic behavior.
Being the most popular does not mean it's good. The fact that it is not good is why /tg/, and the dedicated RPG community does not like that brand recognition and free word of mouth from "5e is newbie friendly!" morons who have never played another game allows D&D to be successful despite its many failings and WotC/Hasbro's moronic behavior.
/tg/ statistically loves 5e.
Its contrarians only make up a tiny percent of the board, and this fact makes them so mad that they try their hardest to look like more than they actually are.
That's really all these shitposters are. A few people, working their hardest to look like more.
>muh survey
Does not matter. 5e is still a bad game and you're still a colossal homosexual for believing that no one can hold an opinion against something popular. 40k and MtG are popular on this board too and both of those games are worse than 5e. The quality of a game does not matter and has no bearing on anyone's ability to have a negative opinion on it for any reason, no matter how bad that chaps your oversensitive baby ass.
>does not matter
Why are you so mad that most of /tg/ disagrees with you?
This isn't a matter of "wrong" or "right," you fricking autist. It's just an opinion on a game.
Your subjective opinion belongs to that of a minority. That doesn't make you wrong, it just means most people will disagree with your personal, subjective, and apparently extremely biased opinion.
i hate how its been dumbed down to the lowest of lowest common denominator. dude, normies can understand complex systems, but 5e is just so fricking simple even a chicago south-sider can play it and roflstomp the game despite his inability to read, write, calculate or generally understanding what the frick he's doing.
that's why i hate 5e,it catters to the most blatantly moronic buttholes possible.
it catter to The Wider Audience(tm)(c)(r) and Diversity Quota """"People""""
Don't hate it, but compared to 3ed, character builds are pretty simplistic and "locked in", with little meaningful mechanical difference between a 12th level human Champion and a 12th level tiefling Champion.
You -could- take some Feats and things to make stuff different, but by this point the system is falling apart. Min-maxers have already figured out the meta, and how your build doesn't match up to the "ideal". Story-driven gamers meanwhile are looking into other systems because at this level the game is no longer light enough to keep their attention. And everybody is probably getting a sense of "been there, done that" with the system.
It's not that 5ed is inherently worse than 3ed or AD&D or whatever, it's just that if the grognards playing the older games (3ed rev is 21 years old now and can legally drink) haven't admitted their edition is shit too by now, they aren't going to.
(cont)
And it's not that D&D is shit and some other game isn't. You're having fun with it? You're having fun with it! But don't mistake "fun" with "perfect", because all these games are objectively broken at some point and you can't make something that's objectively fun. Only subjectively.
It's a related topic that hasn't been brought up in this thread, but people will go out of their way to mangle, ignore, or rewrite the rules in order to make the game suit their needs, and that's perfectly fine and a natural part of learning how to actually enjoy RPGs, but then they go and glorify that as a feature of D&D to be lauded. >We wrote up our own classes >Remade the entire skill system >The DM wrote an entire original setting with unique races and lore >A lot of our sessions have zero dice rolling at all >any time the rules get in the way, we just ignore them >and that's why 5e is such a great system!
I can understand people having a place in their heart for the system that first introduced them to the hobby and gave them the spark to pursue their own thing, but it's outright moronic to say "5e is such a great system because of [reason that explicitly and overtly implies that 5e, as a system, was a problem that was solved by ignoring or throwing out most of the system and making up something else instead]"
And that's not even a badwrong fun kind of problem, if you ask me. Play whatever you want however you want. I just don't want people giving credit to WotC who was so fricking incompetent that they looped around and now get praised for making a system so bad that it forces people to make their own better version out of the broken pieces they paid WotC for.
I know having a system so simple and streamlined I can just wing things in the middle of a session is a nice feature. But part of that just comes with familiarity with the rules, and the other part comes from confidency in what you're doing. None of which is a unique feature to any game. But when the whole table is ignoring the rules, maybe the rules aren't worth paying attention to in the first place.
(I will say though that I've had sessions without any dice rolling, simply because everything was either role-played out, or because I didn't feel like making them roll for every &^%$ing little thing when they're supposed to be competent in the task at hand.)
Cause it's popular. Everyone's familiar enough with it to know its weaknesses, and a lot of people are frustrated that no-one they know wants to play other systems.
Lurk more, newbies. Even critical roll abandoned D&D because it's so shitty.
You should delete that "epic screencap" because you could have easily summarized that vomit by just typing
>SHILLSSSSSSSSSS
>FANBOYYYYYSSS
so that everyone could ignore your homosexualry just as easily but you would require less effort.
>Even critical roll abandoned D&D
?
Campaign Three is still ongoing and is run using 5e.
I think he's saying that because he doesn't realize they intend to leave over WotC/Hasbro's "hey, we want you to pay us licensing fees as we try to take back the OGL" nonsense last year.
That nobody seems to understand what an OGL means, or how you don't even need an OGL in the first place, because you can't copyright rules, is a whole other topic.
It’s an okay system that has flaws that is mainstream.
It’s more like that people hate DnD 5es player base, the kind of people who refuse to learn any other game so they homebrew stuff like survival mechanics, stands, cyberpunk and basically any setting
>It’s more like that people hate DnD 5es player base
This is an imaginary issue; an invented stereotype that comes out of people who suck at pitching new games. The sort who start off with "I hate D&D, let's play something else!" and expect people to immediately leap at a game that's essentially D&D but less appealing.
It may be seem like a tall order to get people to move away from a game designed to appeal to the broadest range of people, but in my experience most people have innate curiosity and are receptive to trying new games if you know how to actually pitch them correctly. And, according to the latest /tg/ surveys, there's actually only a minority of 5e players here who have only played 5e, with most having played other systems.
The whole "5e players only play 5e" is just another myth coming out of our trolls here, desperate to complain about [popular thing].
No no there differently out there
Sure there are few like me who just use it as a starter game, but there are definitely folks out there who will only play 5e
You just have to look up “how
And for the survey I would say that’s a sampling bias, if it’s just a survey on /tg/.
Despite all the talks of nogames, I’m pretty sure most of /tg/ users played games and are enthusiastic about it enough to learn new systems.
Fa/tg/uys aren’t really the standard demographic
>there are definitely folks out there who will only play 5e
Not enough for people to try and irrationally claim that its an endemic issue in the community. It's just people seeing people preferring to play 5e, and deciding that the only reason they're playing 5e is because they refuse to play anything else, because that's the only way they can rationalize it in their worldview where 5e is the worst game of all time.
It's pure troll cope.
"Preferring" to only ever play 5e is the same thing as refusing to play other systems.
You misunderstood me.
It's not preferring to only play 5e. It's having played other games, and still preferring to play 5e. Shocking, I know, but there are many people who actually believe that 5e is not the worst system of all time and will happily play it instead of some other system they've played.
The problem with our trolls is that they genuinely have autism and have great difficulty understanding that people have different opinions that are not necessarily wrong, just a different than their own opinions. So, they perform elaborate mental gymnastics to attempt to rationalize why they are right, and why the majority of roleplayers are wrong. They will stoop quite low, exaggerate and lie, and basically warp every feature of the game into some kind of unforgivable mistake that is nothing but drawbacks.
ie. this dumb thread.
If something is simple, it's TOO basic.
If something has depth, it's TOO complex.
If 5e does it, it's the worst thing that's ever happened.
If 5e doesn't do it, how dare they omit this vital component of RPGs?!?
It's just so... tiresome. The shitposts in this thread really are just that basic, and these trolls still think that they can trick people into thinking they're offering a valid and unbiased opinion of the game.
Oh, it's you. Get new material.
5e being as reviled as it is is all the proof necessary to prove that all of those things are true. And they are.
>do you know how unlikely that is?!?!
Yes.
>5e being as reviled as it is
Lol, you stupid homosexual.
It's the most played game on this board. By a huge margin. There's not even a close 2nd place.
It's the most beloved game here. If you want to say it's "reviled", imagine how much this board must hate every other game.
Dumbass. You're still trying to push a "more than a tiny minority hates this game! I'M NOT A FREAK, I'M NOT A FREAK," narrative, rather than just accepting you're a gross little autistic freak.
Can you actually go have a nice day? Even if this is bait, every discussion on this board and probably outside of it would be better with your absence.
Thank you for confirming you just got your ass handed to you, and have no actual response. "Reviled" indeed.
Dumbass.
not the anon you replied to, I just want you to have a nice day
>The problem with our trolls is that they genuinely have autism and have great difficulty understanding that people have different opinions that are not necessarily wrong
I love when you do this to yourself.
I understand you have an opinion.
An extremely subjective opinion that belongs to an incredibly tiny minority.
Your opinion is an extreme outlier. An anomally that can't really be treated as anything resembling a fair or unbiased opinion due to how extreme it is and how far it strays from anything resembling a rational and carefully considered opinion.
In effect, your opinion is effectively worthless because the only people who would ever agree with you would need to be as biased as you are. That's why you come here to find your fellow contrarian trolls and to lick each other's wounds every time one of you hurts yourselves flailing in pure rage at the mere thought of people playing the game you've designated as your personal nemesis.
Go appeal to popularity on plebbit.
Dumbass.
Welcome to subjectivity.
There's a reason why people vote for awards shows, because we're not talking about an objective topic, but something as personal as "how a game makes you feel."
Are you really that fricking dumb? You didn't know this is a subjective topic? That your rigidly held opinion is nothing more than your fee-fees? And your wittle feewings belong to such a tiny percentile you're in danger of being written off in the margin of error?
The vast majority of RPG players like 5e. The number who play it even ranges from 30 to 50% depending on the survey/poll, with most other games struggling to get more tha 5%.
You're free to continue being a little b***h and hating a game because it's too popular for your tastes, but quit trying to try and terraform an illusionary landscape where you're not some weird little freak and just accept it. It'll be healthier for you in the long run, especially since you won't have to waste so much mental effort figuring out why so many people like what you think is the worst game of all time.
have a nice day paragraph schizo
you really do belong in reddit. popularity =/= good.
And, popularity=/=bad.
And yet, here you are, obsessing about a game you don't even play, solely because it's popular and that makes you mad.
There's plenty of worse games out there, they just don't happen to be the most popular game. And, you're not out there, complaining about those games; you're here.
You type like a 15 year old girl. Cut to the chase and slit your wrists already.
I already know why so many """people"" like 5E. It's low effort, low barrier to entry slop.
Go find a gun and blow your stupid fricking brains out holy shit, it'll make what you post more intelligent I promise.
Actually though, go commit suicide.
You come to defend a game and always end up seething and malding and desperately trying to formulate insults that sink you deeper into the shit pit where you belong, plebbitor.
>defending a game
I'm attacking you.
You're still here, obsessed about a game you don't even play, rather than discussing games you do play.
This isn't about whatever [popular thing] happens to be, this is about you being in a twist about [popular thing] because you are a basic b***h troll, and the basic b***h trolls on every board just like to complain about [popular thing].
You don't get to pretend like you're just passing by and casually slinging insults when you've been doing this exact routine for years on end. Cry about trolls all you want, but we know what you are and we know you'll come running any time someone says something bad about 5e.
You're acting like the issue is people giving negative, yet fair, evaluations of the game.
Dumbass.
The issue is you trolling like a moron and thinking you're too clever for anyone to have figured you out. Even now, you're trying to play the victim, the poor, innocent poster just trying to express himself, but being bullied by the evil WotC employee who is paid to defend a product on a board where the product's general includes links to pirate all the material.
I can't reiterate how much of a dumbass you are enough. You really are the dumbest of dumbasses, and it's your dumb, insanely biased posting that's the issue, not the mere notion of someone saying something negative about a game, which you're hopelessly begging everyone to see you as.
NTA but have a nice day.
I couldn't imagine what mental illness it takes to do what you do, you really should go find a good bridge and get it over with if this is what you do.
>REEEEE TROLLS
I just told you we've seen you do this shit for years now. It's tiresome. Get new material.
The game sucks.
I am not going to stop saying it sucks.
Do you understand that? There is no amount of posting that will make me stop, ever. You cannot and never will be able to shame me out of posting my genuine opinion on 5E because your opinion is worthless to me. If you want me to stop posting about traditional games, go cry to the mods.
>crying about a game to strangers
>explaining why you don't like a game
>in a thread asking why people don't like a game
ishygddt
Kinda surreal too, because the first few dozen posts (give or take some low effort shitposts) in this thread before Trollhunter Schizo showed up were thoughtful, articulate, thorough, and clear. Then again, we've had countless threads just like this where he'll show up, ignore everything that's been said without a hint of contrarian malice, and go
>YOU JUST HATE IT BECAUSE IT'S POPULAR! YOU'RE SO OBSESSED BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST A LITTLE TROLL HNNNNNNNG I WISH I COULD KILL YOU FOR SAYING THESE LIES IN MY PRESENCE
>were thoughtful, articulate, thorough, and clear.
Lol, who do you think you're fooling?
No matter how hard you try, your petty b***hing is just petty b***hing, and no amount of long-winded whining changes that.
Holy shit you're delusional if you think any of your posts in this shit thread don't reek of desperation.
They can read the posts for themselves. Just like they can read your posts and see your impotent sperg rage for what it is, troll.
>They can read the posts for themselves
Exactly.
There's some hilariously bad attempts at presenting criticisms, that boil down to "I hate everything and let me just list the dumbest fricking ideas even if I contradict myself a little later on, because all I'm really doing is repeating shit other trolls have said or otherwise exaggerating complaints until the game I'm describing doesn't at all resemble the game I'm pretending to describe."
You pretending otherwise is genuinely laughable. It's actually funny that you are so biased you actually think any of the shit you spewed could be taken seriously by anyone.
I like it when you project. It hasn't stopped being funny yet.
OP asked for my opinion. He got it.
You're supposed to love it, though.
You're supposed to pull your punches for people who can't handle seeing bad things and criticisms said about it outside of /5eg/, Reddit, Roll20, Facebook, and Discord.
You're expected to fix all of its problems and give it credit for what you did.
You're supposed to buy all the supplements you're expected to change, and tell everyone how excited you were to play the things that weren't included with what you bought.
It's the best TTRPG, Anon, and if you don't like anything about it you're a hater who just hates it because it's popular, regardless of any structural evidence you bring up.
You can't say it sucks, because only trolls say things suck.
NTA but this is some /misc/ level of mentally unwell rent free shit.
5es not even good but touch some grass.
No, that's the other guy.
>There is no amount of posting that will make me stop, ever.
These are not the thoughts of a happy human being.
Happiness is not the point of life, you addict. Just because something doesn't immediately benefit you doesn't mean it's wrong.
>Verification not required.
>happiness is not the point of life
While arguing about games. Games which are made for fun.
Engaging. Fun is something else. Reading about how the Hells work is engaging, it is not fun. Stimulation, simulation, innovation. A man needs his opium, but not everything should be opium.
You don't understand the context involved.
Chronic stress is bad and game being bad shouldn’t be enough of a reason to put yourself in an early grave
>I am not going to stop saying it sucks.
Who cares.
What you can do, though, is stop being a basic b***h troll.
Just because someone mentions something that's popular doesn't mean you need to b***h about it. Hell, when an OP like this one makes an obvious troll thread, like this one, it doesn't mean you need to jump in and act like a moron, "expressing" your opinion in a place that is going to be almost nothing but basic b***h trolls b***hing about [popular thing].
No one is telling you to like D&D. But, your braindead trolling is not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself.
Go talk about games you actually play. Contribute and build up those communities, instead of being furious about the continued popularity of a game that whorishly did just about everything it could to be popular.
5e's success shouldn't mean anything to you, yet you're fricking obsessed with it.
>Who cares.
You do because you're incapable of not dumping walls of text at me for my opinion.
He thinks he can lecture you into not voicing your opinions or criticisms. It's kind of cute in a childish sort of way that he's trying to make it about anything other than his ass-blasted frustration that people are saying 5e isn't good.
No one cares about your opinion.
The problem is you using your opinion to be a basic b***h troll.
How do you not understand this.
Let's take any other games you hate. Are you wasting your life b***hing about those games? Learning about those games just so you can b***h more about them? No? Why not act with the same passivity you hold towards the less popular games as you do the most popular one?
I will gladly shit all over any game I don't like if the topic comes up.
>i will gladly be a basic b***h troll
>i will treat [popular thing] as my personal trigger to start trolling
Oh what a shock.
So, you're actually commited to trolling forever, because, surprise surprise, people won't stop talking about [popular thing]. Hell, the real joke is when 5e finally does give up the crown, you'll probably just switch to b***hing about [new popular thing].
You're a basic b***h, and a basic b***h troll. Not anything to be proud of.
Take my earnest advice. Break the loop. Just go talk about games you actually play, and ignore the ones that you clearly are too biased to have any meaningful discussion about.
>Hell, the real joke is when 5e finally does give up the crown, you'll probably just switch to b***hing about [new popular thing].
Yeah. He will also b***h about 6e because it will also be bad.
If 6e is actually bad, and people actually won't play it, no one will care about it, and neither of you will b***h about it because you won't get any attention for doing so. There's actually a chance you and he will keep b***hing about 5e all the way up until 7e.
>If 6e is actually bad, and people actually won't play it, no one will care about it, and neither of you will b***h about it because you won't get any attention for doing so. There's actually a chance you and he will keep b***hing about 5e all the way up until 7e.
But 6e will be bad because it will be the same as 5e, so the same people will play it? Not sure what you don't understand. Do you think something being popular makes it good?
The most popular things are always horribly flawed. That’s because there is a lot to complain about.
>The most popular things are always horribly flawed.
Not always, but they are generally going to be at the very least overrated. No product, piece of entertainment, or person is going to be perfect.
>Just go talk about games you actually play
I do.
>and ignore
No.
It would be more worthy of your time to focus less attention to things that you are not the intended audience of. You'll also be less of a moron newbie if you learn how to hide and filter threads.
>you are not the intended audience of
Nice assumption.
okay moron
>you are not the intended audience of.
Hold on now, he's clearly a homosexual.
Why do you spend so much time concerning yourself with and trying to police what other people talk about?
NTA, but this board is dying. Half the population has left in just the last 3 years, and it's continuing to die.
Your trolling isn't helping. Hell, ironically, 5e discussion has proportionally increased thanks to it, because no other game gets anywhere near as much attention. It's actually a struggle to discuss other games on this board these days, all while 5e continues to thrive because most 5e players just ignore you while you bump their threads.
If you want 5e to be less popular here, go and discuss other games. It's fricking win-win for everyone.
That's not an answer.
How is it not an answer.
Are you asking why people should care about this board and not just use it as a shitposting vacation spot like these trolls do because they know they'd get their accounts banned on Reddit if they "expressed their opinions" there, and they're terrified of losing all their upvotes so they instead shitpost anonymously here? Is that what you're asking?
I would not get banned for expressing my opinions on Reddit.
>i wouldn't get banned for going to every place that mentions D&D and complaining about it like a little b***h
If you acted there like you do here, yeah, you wouldn't last a day.
Have you considered that I don't do that?
Backseat modding is a bannable offense, mister "I just care about the quality of the board ;-;"
And considering every thread you post in is drastically lowered in quality because you keep having the same sperg out over and over, you are an active detriment encouraging people to argue with you more instead of discussing anything else. Touch brass.
Pinning trolls in troll threads improves the board by keeping you detained from the rest of it.
Ultimately though, we have seen our trolls grow increasingly desperate with their shitposting. They can't get by with just a "D&D sucks" anymore, they need to go full "D&Dogshit is only played by D&Drones and they need to stay in their containment threads and they should all kill themselves," these days, and even then most of their shitposts just get entirely ignored. At some point, our trolls will finally just break, and /tg/ may be able to start healing. Maybe the mods will change their current policies and work towards building /tg/ up again, who knows.
Either way, it's kind of concerning that you're this upset about anyone pointing out your shitposting. Were you operating under the delusion that if no one was pointing it out, it wouldn't be so obvious?
Have you really not noticed how little attention your bait gets? You should be thanking me for the attention I'm giving you, especially because it seems like one of the few things keeping you from blowing your brains out. Go on. Thank me for my kindness.
You're not protecting the board from trolls. You are the troll. Once you understand that, maybe you'll actually want to have a nice day for wasting your life.
I weep for your attention span if you think posting in multiple threads is impossible.
Ah, but with all the samegayging you do it's got to take some toll on ya.
>samegayging
Pure projection.
Sounds like I touched a nerve.
Can you do the world a favor and blow your brains out? Like no snarky quips or any of that bullshit, please consider suicide.
You clearly don't have anything worthwhile to live for.
this guy has to be doing this to rile people up, I refuse to believe the shit he posts is for real
>NTA
>Trolling
>dodges the question anyways
I can post in as many threads as I feel like. This is a thread about why people dislike D&D. Follow your own fricking advice instead of doing this concerned citizen shtick.
The thread is literally asking why people dislike D&D.
If you can't stand people disliking D&D, then you're the one who should have learned to hide this thread, because it was obvious that this thread would contain negative replies about D&D.
nta but what is this larp that anyone would allow you to get within 10 feet of a gaming table?
You play as much 5e as your trolls and probably watch a dozen "YOU'RE RUNNING BEHOLDERS WRONG" videos to pretend like you know what you're talking about.
Go have a nice day.
have you tried convincing people to learn a whole second game?
Yeah, I GMed a Mothership one-shot for my parents (Ypsilon-14) and it was fun.
well your nerd ass sprung from their nerd loins, thats different
>its totally a myth just play with your parents
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaah
Sorry that you're so unlikable you can't play even with your parents.
Sorry that you're so reddit you're unable to comprehend the matter at hand here.
...yes? Many, many times?
I've introduced literally hundreds of D&D players to non-D&D games over the years, alongside vice versa, as well as brand new players to all sorts of games.
I have no difficulty getting people to try new games, because I pitch games in honest and appealing ways with my own enthusiasm and love of games as the fulcrum.
Enjoy the butthurt of persecution complexed anons who require you to fit the meme affirmed by shitposting. You're the villian for enjoying the more popular game system despite it being clearly worse than all the other games you refuse to play.
HURRR I HIT MONSTER HAURRRRRR
You like board games, thats fine. Just like I said.
You just want to roll dice lol.
Idiot.
I envy you. The second I start pulling out multiple game pieces or (god forbid) a rulebook, I see eyes glaze over.
Start with simple systems then. You're not going to get people into CoC or Cyberpunk unless they've already inclined towards those games, but you can pitch an idea for a game and run it in something like FUDGE, and if the idea is good, they'll jump at it.
If anything, the system is probably the last thing that needs to be considered. If you want to run a mech game, you're probably better off starting with something like Risus before actually pulling out a dedicated Mech system.
Glad to hear all the hemming and hawing when I offered to run a One-Shot in another game while our AL group's DM was out of town was a figment of my imagination.
Sounds like you suck at selling a game.
>according to the latest /tg/ surveys, there's actually only a minority of 5e players here who have only played 5e, with most having played other systems.
Taking /tg/ surveys as evidence of your argument that pure 5e players don't exist is piss poor. The people on this board are hyper autists who hate 5e, of course they play things besides 5e. But I've interacted with normie gamers at conventions, LGS, forums, various VTTs, RPG discords and subreddits, people who only play 5e definitely exist
>The people on this board are hyper autists who hate 5e,
Wrong.
Dead wrong.
The /tg/ surveys show that /tg/ aligns itself pretty reasonably with things like book sales and roll20 stats, with 5e being far and away the most played game. /tg/ isn't as contrarian as our contrarian trolls would like us to believe.
What you are trying to do is pretend that a vocal, but extremely small minority, somehow represents /tg/. And, that's really your whole agenda, because you are a piece of shit trying to trick people.
You are willing to labor in your efforts to lie to /tg/, to tell /tg/ it hates a game, even when we have surveys that reveal that /tg/ in fact loves it.
You're awfully lonely in this thread for a guy supposed surrounded by a majority of 5e loving anons.
>whoa, i can't believe a troll thread about hating d&d has trolls in it that hate D&D, and the vast majority of this board has no interest in going anywhere near it!
You a tard?
Answer the question. It's not your job to police threads, troll, shitpost, or otherwise. Why do you waste your life having the same argument every few days?
It's bad.
There's a lot of minor to middling issues that add up. Like bounded accuracy, the skill system lacking degrees of proficiency, the eternal casters vs martials debate, etc. Yet it's not quite bad enough to drive people away and for largely external reasons new players flock to 5e before any other system, so everyone's just sort of stuck with it. Naturally, this engenders a simmering resentment over time.
Bounded accuracy and other design choices arn't a big problem, but they don't actually stick their own stated design goals. The people who made the chasis left the company and all they got left is Black folk who know that as long as they make everything safe , tame and boring no one will come for their jobs. It's a fricking miserable way to have a game designed.
Because of people like you
Bounded accuracy
One of two reasons:
>It's popular so morons who think you can gain popularity on an anonymous website hate it for the sake of contrarianism
>Someone is an autistic moron who thinks that you need 30 pages of rules on everything including speaking in-character and possibly up to how your character breathes when not under duress
Bounded accuracy is a good thing, because it cuts down on imbalance and numbers bloat. Instead of the GM having to deal with a guy who has a +45 to a single skill and 0s everywhere else, or players having +20s to their attack rolls or AC of 30+ with nothing but stats, they only have to deal with up to around a +5/+6 from stats and anything else is from magic items which they control the flow of. Can't fricking stand games where there's no hard cap on the numbers because I have seen some absolutely abhorrent shit in systems other than D&D where that's the case and absolutely frick that shit. The only people who whine about bounded accuracy are the kinds of homosexual who go online and find "builds" then whine when the GM houserules something to cuck them.
>Bounded accuracy is a good thing
No it's not.
it is
It's not. It's one of the worst things D&D has ever done.
>Big number bad
>brain hurts
They just go and tell on themselves, don't they?
>dude the system is so good! I barely have to think at all!
>All the single digit numbers are so much easier to handle because adding to many numbers takes too long!!
>because it cuts down on imbalance
Could have fooled me because it's massively more imbalanced than 4E.
>and numbers bloat.
That's a bad thing, idiot. You're homogenizing everyone.
Mostly the play culture that surrounds it, but I also hate the general art style, the bloated stat blocks, how annoying it is to DM compared to other games, the splat books, how linear most of the adventures are, and how useless it is at any playstyle beyond fantasy superheroes.
I know every games has them but it seems D&D, even OSR D&D, has the biggest ratio of idiots and that guys compared to other games. It goes beyond not reading the book and just being a self absorbed idiot throwing the game for others most of the time.
I hate this pointy hat homosexual with every fiber of my being
Me too anon
Want me to go point by point?
>Class system is highly restrictive, with unreasonably linear character progression
From the start of the campaign to the end, you as the player know what your character will become, because that's what the rules are. You can't decide that your character wants to train with a certain weapon or magical spell unless the DM expressly allows it with the optional rules, which most DMs will not use.
>Bounded Accuracy allows low CR monsters to still threaten high level characters, which is good, but at the cost of further restricting player choice in their character's growth
Bounded Accuracy sounds like a good idea on paper, as it keeps the numbers in a manageable range. In order to do that with a d20+stat system, however, they needed to shave away as many +stat points from a d20 result as possible, so, Skill Points were removed. Now, characters are only good at what their class tells them they are.
>Massive HP values ensure that a single round of combat lasts forever
Another side effect of Bounded Accuracy is improved hit chances across the board. This feels good, because it means you got a little win! Yes! I dealt damage to the enemy! This means that any substantial threat now needs high HP values to compensate for getting smacked more often.
>Highly limited tactical options for Martial type characters
Attack options are laughably less impactful that just attacking. There are no called shots, just roll to hit. Weapons largely function the same, just with bigger dice for bigger weapons. The biggest offense is not being able to stop a foe from simply walking past you unmolested, because the only reaction a character has by default is to attack. Not to step in the way, not to grab - the latter is actually a rules violation! - not to use some unused movement to shift in front, no, just attack with weapon in hand.
These are just things unique to DnD, and just the basic, surface things, there are dozens more!...
>Useful rules for players hidden in the DMs guide
>Two pricey books required to play, sold separately
>Playmats, miniatures, sheets, all sold separately
The fricking thing is just too expensive. You're paying for the brand. Minor complaint, honestly.
>Expansions are largely just more class features, which sounds great, until you remember that you lock into those features early
The extra options are nice, but ultimately a player is still only choosing one, once, in an entire campaign.
Reminder that multiclassing and feats are optional rules, and most DMs (despite how senseless it sounds) will not allow them.
>Limited adventure material in the two books required to play the game
You need to purchase adventures separately. There's a reason most run games are homebrew aka make your own fun losers.
This is worse when a bunch of the classes were designed with adventure found loot in mind.
>Compressed skills result in confusing rules
Athletics is an amalgamation of skills that in previous editions were standalone swimming/climbing/jumping/etc. This makes this one skill more useful. On paper.
Acrobatics is another one of these amalgamations. As is Performance. A Jump, say, just a Jump, could fit into any of these three skills. So could a fricking handstand.
>Advantage/Disadvantage is simple and 'effective', but too basic
Even the normies I've played with found issue with this system. Because it doesn't stack (remember, 5e is controlled fun), players were disappointed when their efforts to work together were met with a flat no from the DM, who was just reading the rules as they were written in the rulebook.
The design attempt here was to offer a simple yes/no when assigning whether or not a PC had a reasonable enough tactical advantage, and vice/versa. The idea being that the window for what is and isn't an advantage would be more obvious.
In the end, it just felt like they were wasting their time trying to get a proper advantage.
>Reminder that multiclassing and feats are optional rules, and most DMs (despite how senseless it sounds) will not allow them.
It's "optional" but I've literally never run into a DM who disallows it.
My DM didn't allow multiclassing until like the 30th session or so.
It fricked up with my roleplaying, but now I'd feel it'd be too awkward to take the class that actually suits him better.
my party is worse. they allow it and then groan about it all the time, so i just dont do it anymore.
I have seen DMs who won't allow variant human because they assume I am going to make an OP build with it and DMs who have not read the rulebook on how to get feats and assume they choose when to hand them out and what they are while the players don't get them instead of ability score increase
>Acrobatics is another one of these amalgamations. As is Performance. A Jump, say, just a Jump, could fit into any of these three skills. So could a fricking handstand.
Not a problem in actuality. If you're proficient with any of the skills, you get to add your PB to the ability check. But only once. You're going to have a lenient GM to let you do Strength (Performance) for this though. Certainly not Charisma (Performance).
And the description in the rules are actually pretty clear that jumping is normally intended to be a Strength (Athletics) check.
>Advantage/Disadvantage part 2
Because this system is so basic, it ends up encouraging players to throw themselves at the walls of HP that are their enemies. What's worse is, because the rules are strangely liberal about how a DM assigning advantage, it ends up being harder to get it. The Rogue's Sneak Attack expressly mentions "an ally within 5ft of their target" I suspect because the mention of "advantage against the target" could be 'NEVER' with the wrong DM, so the ally nearby rule was added to make sure there was a hard baked rule for Sneak Attacks to work in the midst of combat.
Basically, you'll get advantage when the DM says so. They don't want to give advantage just because you moved around to the back, they still know you're there. A +2 or something would make much more sense here, because while the enemy knows you're there, you're still flanking them, making it more difficult for the enemy to defend themselves.
But since the scale of advantage is 'yes or no', giving any advantage in this scenario removes the distinction between literal blindside ambush in the night and having two guys walk up to you.
>All these trimmed features and minimal combat options, and it's still a combat heavy game
It drags too long to be a beer and pretzels game, and there's numbers and a few books to keep if you're one of the three fun(er) classes, so beer isn't going to make it better either way. You need to have your brain turned firmly on for the combat heavy focus and implied tactical play, but the game on it's own doesn't engage your brain enough to stimulate. Maybe the latter is just a me thing...
The two things I like most about 5e are Multiclassing and Feats. These aren't even a part of the core gameplay, they're just features that help inform gameplay, the gameplay itself is unfortunately pretty stale out of the box, and to compensate, the DM needs to pull triple duty to make fun occur.
Great points, may I add?
>Spells vs class features
The concept of a martial vs caster divide is far less pronounced, even in other d20 or fantasy games. Why? Because in D&D 5e, your character's access to new abilities is either prescribed class features and trading ASIs for feats, or Spells. You get a new selection of the latter every 2 levels, whereas unique class features might be spaced 3-4 levels apart. Spells are also extraordinarily more powerful. Some subclasses, like Diviner or War Domain, get both.
>multiclassing
The game undermines its own class system, or rather, tries to solve its myriad issues so inelegantly that it highlights how overweight Dexterity, Wisdom, and Charisma are, by letting you leave your class behind entirely once you've unlocked its most valuable feature. Sometimes, with more frontloaded classes like Warlock, the first 1-2 levels are more valuable than anything that follows after, and so only the most naive or new player would ever take a third warlock level.
The result is that instead of creating a variety of characters, there are these 4 streamlined hodgepodges of 3+ classes, and Wizard with a 1 level dip, which are a priori mathematically engineered to be better than anything you can come up with.
>Encounter balance
Don't worry, you don't have to play your Sorlockadin, Monkbarian, Rguestalker, or any of that shit. It turns out that they used "whose line is it anyway?" rules to figure out encounter balance. Everything is easy if you're making a concerted effort to win and passed 8th grade math.
>It's not a game, it's a combat engine
This would be acceptable, but undesirable if we were playing a narrative-heavy RPG. We're not. Overwhelmingly and nearly all of D&D 5e's rules pertain to combat, getting into it, and resolving it. Most non-combat activities are handwaved as mother-may-I with the GM or "just roleplay it lmao." Which leads to my final complaint
>The GM crisis
No one wants to run 5e. Players outnumber GMs by something crazy. The main problem is not actually "the more you understand this game the less fun it is." Great guess, but no. The GM scarcity is caused by this being the single most hostile, unhelpful system for running a game. It gives you no help or guidance, and the burden of work it heaps on you is insane. I'd rather run current edition Shadowrun.
To add to this, the overemphasis on pre-written campaigns, like Curse of Strahd and Saltmarsh, gives people unreasonably expectations for how thoroughly everything should be laid out, and also how much work they have to put in before they can run a game. And that's on top of the fact that most of them never read the DMG or learn to use what limited tools are in there, and assume that if they can't pull of a single scene that's as good and memorable as their favorite Critical Role episode, that they aren't good enough to run the game at all.
>single most hostile, unhelpful system for running a game
I've seen worse but it is pretty bad. Especially if you allow UA
It is a mystery that has never before been explained! What a profound and thoughtful question that has never received an answer!
It's safe, boring, and popular.
For me the archaic game design: classes, levels and hp bloat. The kitchen sink approach to races also fills me with utter contempt.
Second the cult of the d20 and the osr it created by proxy, now we have to endure an insane amount of pretentious homosexuals parroting the school of osr design (lol, lmao even) and the torrent of shovelosr ogl games.
In summary if you care about the hobby you'll play other games and find something better almost immediately.
>For me the archaic game design: classes, levels
That's not archaic design. It's just design you personally dislike.
Fair. After I posted I noted that archaic isn't the correct adjective, after all I play a modified version of Traveller and that came out in 77.
It is archaic and stuff defeating.
It comes from a time when you were meant to be able to roll up a character in 10 minutes or less.
If it takes you an hour to make a character, there's no reason to have levels. Just pick the features you want instead of pigeonholing people into gay archetypes decided by corporate suits.
The majority of significant new games in the fantasy genre use levels and classes, so obviously it's not archaic.
>If it takes you an hour to make a character, there's no reason to have levels. Just pick the features you want instead of pigeonholing people into gay archetypes decided by corporate suits.
You don't understand the purpose of levels if you think they exist only because of quick character creation.
holy shit, you're moronic
>It takes an hour to create a charter
Holy fricking shit, I'm able to create DND charters under 15 min
Here I'll make this easy for you
Stats: standard array 15, 14, 13, 13, 11, 9
Race: +2 +1 for stats and a few traits
Background: 2 skill proficiency and either a gaming set, music instrument, or tool. + a buncha mostly useless items
Class: Martial have all the weapons and armors proficiency, besides monk. If you are playing a wizard, sorcerer, warlock, druid just assume you get most of the light weapons
Skills: Unless your rogue or bard you get 2 skills proficiency
There its not that hard
Nah, they want to make a story focused character, anon.
D&D is better when you assume your character is just some dude who is gonna get eaten by a monster five minutes after starting.
It's why I liked roll 3d6 down the line, pick a class you got the stats for, and run with it.
It's why I like Shadow of the Demon lord a lot too. Your stats? Yeah, pick a race. There are your stats. Let's go, you got a good chance that something is gonna make your skeleton pop out so having a backstory is moronic.
Best characters are basic rather than quirky unique concepts. Through the games themselves the characters should end up becoming unique and interesting.
> Hurr I'll play a half aarakocra half kobold who's obsessed with cheese and bombards every NPC with cheese related questions. Haha.
>Nah, they want to make a story focused character, anon.
Oh then thats easy man
You roll on the random tables to make a backstory, I mean you can do that right anon?
here I can do that for you
>1d100 to see if you have parents
Roll 32 I know my parents
>1d100 to roll where you were born
Roll 72 Was born in a field
>1d10 for sibilings
>roll 5 so 1d4+1 siblings
Roll of 1+1 so 2 sibilings
>Roll 2d6 for birth order
Rolled 5 so middle child
>1d100 to who raised you
Roll of 3, so a temple
>1d4 to see your relation to your parents
Roll of 4, parents disappeared
>3d6 for life style roll
roll of 12 so modest life
>d100 for childhood home
Roll of 72 so large house
>Roll 3d6+Cha mod for childhood memories
roll of 18 so everyone knew who I was and liked me
>1d6 for your background
Roll of 3 on acolyte, Grew up in a religious household so serving the God was natural
>1d6 for class training
Roll of 4 on barbarian, I went on a spiritual journey and found a spirit animal
>D100 to find age
roll of 14 so 20 years old and one life event
>d100 or life event
Roll of 89 fought in a battle, roll on War table
>D12 on War table
Roll of 12 Became a hero and earned a medal from the battle
Now doing all of this which is OPTIONAL which most DMs won't care too much about, And to the DMs that DO you don't even bother with to write 2 sentences then the problem is on you.
Literally most people don't care about the "Story"
>And to the DMs that DO you don't even bother with to write 2 sentences then the problem is on you.
>Literally most people don't care about the "Story"
This is your brain on DnD.
Two reasons.
>Marketing.
To the world at large, TRPGs are still just Dungeons and Dragons the same way all adhesive bandage strips are Bandaids. WotC has also successfully tapped into the geek minstrel show lifestyle branding crowd.
>Idiot Proof
The rules are so dumbed down only dummies can find them engaging. But the playstyle the game intends doesn't want engaging rules. It wants you to build your steel doughnut slap them at each other like action figures.
It brings idiots and homosexuals into the hobby.
Pretty sure you were already here.
Better DnD
>OSR
Better hexcrawl
>Forbidden Lands
>OSR
Better sorcery and sandals
>Conan
>Myhtras
Better crunch
>Palladium Fantasy
>Classic Fantasy (TDM)
Boring generic setting, limiting yet vague/poorly worded rules, poor balance, moronic political hamfisting that appeals to an unsustainable minority audience instead of majority audience, etc
What is there to even like about it anymore?
For simple systems Genesys is for fun and flexible imo and for more crunch heavy stuff with tons of spells and lore there are a billion other alternatives
Forgot to mention the only thing that sucks for Genesys is the movement system of rangebands but you could fairly easily homebrew
I can't speak for anyone else. I can only speak for me. And it's a worse game than the one that came before it. I'm not going to say that 4th edition was flawless, it had its warts. But I also found it to be hands down the most fun version of D&D to play.
And a lot of what made 4e fun didn't make the trip over. Hell, a lot of what made 3.5 fun didn't make it over either. And what remains of either edition is a watered down version of it.
And yet, it's all anyone seems to want to play. Which has always been the reason I've had a slight resentment for D&D in general - that it's all anyone wants to play. And now we combine two aspects, the overwhelming presence of D&D in the tabletop space combined with this being the worst version of D&D since WoTC bought the brand.
Because it's a terrible system played by terrible people.
I don't hate 5e, I dislike its fandom.
As the system itself, it's inocuous, it's bland and uninspired, I just ignore it.
1. It's limiting in character growth options compared to previous edition.
2. It is severely lacking in content compared to every edition before it. For the most popular version of D&D made in almost 30 years, there are straight up campaign books, no psionics, no experimental concepts (such as Magic of Incarnum), no short adventure modules, pretty much frick all for new ideas in general besides race options and backgrounds in majore modules.
3. The emphasis is on story shit as opposed to dungeoning. This is the biggest fault here. Ran as straight dudes on a map, disarming traps, searching for loot, fighting monsters, and going on a loot treadmill because that's your job? It's actually a solid game. Pretty much NOTHING in ANY sourcebook even HINTS that playing it that way is a viable option. There are rules for dungeon creation using random rolls in the DMG that do a solid job, but basically 100% of everything else is some epic quest bullshit that focuses on story related shit as opposed to leaning in to game related stuff.
4. The stuff that DOES lean into game related stuff (overland travelling hex based exploration) is VERY poorly done with frick all for discovery and instead just having combat or survival mini game shit. No random merchants selling gear, no monsters who are just chilling and not looking for a fight, no random events in general outside of a fight.
5. Once you hit level 5 in any given published adventure, you might as well stop playing because there isn't going to a challenge presented that you feels threatening at all anymore.
I like 5e
It's not very good and it has a stranglehold on the market so you're more likely to run into those pretentious, "a game doesn't need good mechanics, I bring the good mechanics" types who lack self awareness and have played nothing but the same generic fantasy story using the same boring system for a decade.
It's streamlined for morons and still manages to be sluggish and slow despite making 70% of its focus on combat. The combat is fricking awful and even disregarding how poorly designed classes are compared to each other, there are a slew of small quirks that are absolutely befuddling when you think about what the thought process had to be when someone wrote it out. The game is so bad that most people consider tearing out half the rule book and making shit up to be a feature and this is backed by the designers themselves.
Its fanbase is also pretty awful and most of them will never touch a non D&D game in their lives. They're the Marvel fans of the tabletop industry and they have a hard time thinking outside of the tropes of D&D.
I don't hate D&D 5e, I just operate on the understanding that it isn't a game, and its marketing is a scam.
The shills, fans, and apologists are the most insufferable homosexuals to try to have an actual discussion with; they either shift blame, move the goalposts, or deflect in bad faith. They aren't worth the headache, and even when they stop vehemently opposing the facts and crying about how much of a "hateful troll" the critics are, they reset in the next thread and pretend they haven't had this discussion before.
Worst of all, despite the fact that they're incapable of handling any bad things said about 5e, they still insist on posting dozens of threads outside their containment general. If you can't handle people telling the truth about 5e, then go back to where everyone circlejerks about it. Better yet, leave /tg/ and go on Facebook or Reddit or something.
I disliked it at least until the release of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and Monsters of the Multiverse, because it was pretty shallow from a chargen perspective (those two books provided much more engaging options) and D20 is honestly way too swingy of a core die.
As it is now I don't mind 5E so much since they managed to expand it a bit and give me stuff to gnaw on.
DND combat is the most boring shit ever
5e is a game system designed by cowards who were more interested in making something so blandly inoffensive that it would sell than they cared about making a game that was actually *good* for anything. The character creation options are a tiny, tiny fraction of what was available in previous editions, so thats already a bad smell that leaves 5e looking like a downgrade. But you look closer at the game and you realize that even extremely basic things, like Feats, are actually presented as unsupported *optional rules*. If you remove all of the so-called 'optional' material from the game, what you have left over is extremely bare bones. So why is so much of it presented as optional? Because they want the deniability to be able to say that its not THEIR fault that they printed bad material, they told you it was optional. Shame on you for using it. Don't irresponsibly mod your game and then complain to the published for voiding your warranty, nerd. Just because we included it in the book doesn't mean you were supposed to USE it.
As much as people rag on critical role, its extremely damning that the only character options in 5e that are not painfully boring all seem to come from Matt Mercer's table bleeding into the official material. Echo Knight is a cooler, more interesting idea than everything else in 5e and actually presents something fun to play around with. I play anything in the PHB as someone who played 3.5 and all I can think of "Where's the rest of it?"
>As much as people rag on critical role, its extremely damning that the only character options in 5e that are not painfully boring all seem to come from Matt Mercer's table bleeding into the official material.
This take is stupid as hell
Personally, I think it's very shittily written, with a lot of stuff being super vague. That includes spells where the RAI is unclear or way too op for the level, as well as "just figure it out on your own" things such as loot or whatever is the deal with tool proficiencies.
Plus there are lots of unfun rules for the sake of balance that people choose to ignore because they're unfun, and then these same people complain about balance.
Character options are lame. You get a lot to fiddle with but things that matter are extremely limited. Combat is weak: very slow and counterintuitive. Exploration is unstructured.
>Exploration
The fricked thing is the system actually does the core concept of a group on a map exploring dungeons for loot, disarming traps, and encountering monsters well.
Absolutely frick all encourages this style of play though.
That's not new. 3e and 4e were the same in that regard. 3e at least had a few supplements that were exclusively about making dungeons and traps. Just play with the rule where all skill checks made by players are hidden rolls by the DM who narrates the results of the roll instead of the number and every edition does dungeon diving pretty damn great. B/X is still the king of actual straight up Dungeoning because of how hard it leaned into that style of play, but 2e onward still does a really good job at it.
for turning the combat into a slogfest
>Level 8 fighter with 16 str in OD&D kills an average of 4 hobgobins per round
>Level 8 fighter with 16 str in 5e kills an average of 0.2 hobgoblins per round
Kinda strange how mob rules aren't seen as requirement in D&D still. One of the biggest pluses for Genesys is mob rules for basic enemies are standard instead of optional.
DnD still can't escape its heritage as a tabletop wargame with a thin veneer of story over it. It's not that it *couldn't* grow beyond that origin, but that would require thought and effort and if they can serve up reheated slop why not make a buck doing that instead?
0.2 hobgoblins if he hits them at all. But since 1d20 swamps his +5 to hit, you actually are just flipping a coin each round.
It might easier for you to try other systems and then you'll have a broader perspective from which to compare and consider. Then you'll understand.
My main problem with it is the perceived popularity makes it the only game in town in major stores. You go to a Barnes and Noble, they have exactly two things on the shelves: Dungeons and Dragons or Pathfinder. Maybe a VtM anniversary edition is moldering away, untouched. The potential for RPGs is so huge and its held back by that bottleneck.
To be fair, the system in WoD (old and new) and Shadowrun are straight garbage. A ton of alternative systems have neat ideas but dog shit execution. There are some better systems out there (Genesys as an example) but most are just moving away from a flawed system to an even worse system.
5e is only incidental of what i hate about the current ttrpg niche overall situation, there was a shift that started way back (around later 2e) that ultimately flipped during 5e thanks to third part tools mainly:
5e is pretty much universally supported in various ways and everywhere as the default, you can search an online srd, use various automated character builders, have relatively easy to approach map tools and vtts directly integrated with 5e content. All of these combined make 5e probably the most accessible ttrpg ever existed, which regulates the expectations its sunk-cost playerbase has with any other game out there.
On top of that there's the player-centric model that regulates the content approach: in 5e players face a buffet of options that exist as default unless noted otherwise by the GM on a situational level. That, coupled with the gamist (in gns terms) nature of d&d, creates the context of "solo journaling" or "builds" as a standalone exercise.
All of the above steadily built a divide between "(modern)D&D" and P&P TTRPGs in general as activities with different types of expectations that create whiplashes colloquially referred here as "d&d brainrot". D&D simultaneously being the de-facto gateway to the hobby as a whole and being one of the most sunk-cost leaning games of all is a tragedy that has tainted the ttrpg niche irremediably.
>Inb4 reee that's not true! ttrpgs are currently more widespread than ever!
Only the anons old enough to remember the supposed ttrpg 90s crisis can understand what i'm hinting at, without A (single) gateway and without the player-centric model (coupled with abundance of accessibility tools) the whole scene got a lot of granularity and diversity.
What we got today is almost an ironic twist of fate.
Just for completeness i want to add also what I hate about d&d on a subjective level (picrel) so i can make a more definite picture that answers OP time wasting question once for all.
Poorly designed game that is over reliant on sacred cow concepts and brand identity, combined with flawed internal logic for balancing and fairness, multiplied by the legacy the game has enjoyed for decades, exponentially multiplied by the financial success and sheer dominance the game holds over the hobby, to the point that it is actually harmful to the hobby as a whole due to flooding its communities with low IQ, low skill tourists and poseurs.
It's a mediocre game, at best, with higher than average presentation, but it is elevated so far above everything else that you can't even explain what problems is verifiably, admittedly has according to its own creators, without some brainrotted homosexual haunting you for years to insist that you're just being a petty contrarian who hates something amazing just because it's popular.
A lot of people complain about bounded accuracy, but that's one of the few things I like about 5e
> I DON'T CARE HOW BIG THE ROOM IS, I CAST FIREBALL! XDDD
Personally I was there during the playtest which is why I stayed away from it. The playtest was an absolute trash fire and it was pretty blatantly obvious the only feedback they paid attention to was anything that fit what they already wanted to do. This was really blatant when they got caught rigging the polls, and had to shut the forums down 3 times to mass ban anyone talking about it.
The only exception being the Fighter, and that was only because there was so much demand for a Fighter that wasn't complete shit that they couldn't just ignore it, and the fanbase had to practically drag Mearls kicking and screaming into the giving the Fighter options beyond "I hit it". And the result was good, it had some solid options while also being able to still just be the "I hit it" Fighter is the player really wanted to. So of course once it went into closed playtesting that Fighter was immediately trashed and we were given the Battlemaster Fighter subclass, which was basically the Good Fighter after being given several concussions.
Also dropping the playtest Sorcerer and just making it almost a carbon copy of the Wizard again was idiotic since the playtest Dragon Sorc filled a neat niche that opened up design room for other interesting Sorcerer bloodlines.
It's a pain in the ass to GM.
Skill issue
>YOU CAN DO ANNNNYYYTHIIIIING!
>You can't actually do anything (well)
Its mostly this, the absolute stagnation of the D&D market pitch.
People also hate it for all kinds of tangential reasons like the nuD&D community, the politics getting jammed into it, changes to lore and fluff etc. But its mostly just because the game has become totally divorced from the only thing the rules were actually designed for and now those rules don't even do that thing particularly well.
With bounded accuracy, you are forced to not do anything well by design unless you go out of your way to weaken your character in other ways just for a small improvement on one of the skills which you will likely not be using enough to be worth it.
Hordes of Shitical Roll fans and powergamers infest modern D&D. They are literal virgin babies. Literally all the powergamers I know are actual fricking virgins in their mid-20s. Whereas all the people I play OSR with save for one are married or in serious relationships. Really says a lot about your power-fantasy power-wank games and how they make up for what a failure you are in real life.
There is literally nothing interesting or compelling about modern D&D. The only possible way to make it compelling is by the DM working explicitly against the system. 5th Edition D&D combat is (1) easy, (2) free of consequences, (3) equipped with a set of rules to let players offload blame for their failure onto the DM (challenge rating), and (4) so hilariously unbalanced it doesn't even represent anything. There's no reason not to get into a fight in 5e cause you'll just heal once you take a nap. Hit points mean literally nothing except what the DM wants them to so the game loses all context and damage becomes meaningless. Even when you die, you have to be coup-de-graced 2 more times to make sure you're actually dead. Characters get so much plot armor that level 1 becomes a hilarious Three Stooges skit and the entire game just looks like a vidya, where "dying" means you just go down so your teammates have to revive you by waving their hands over you for a few minutes. At least you remain unconscious for a bit when you do go down. Not that it matters because a high level character literally has to take 400 damage to be one-shotted. What a game.
As a long time 5e supporter;
>RAW the game is alot more restrictive than people give it credit for
>Poorly balanced in many places so you have to do house rules/mods keep things kosher
>Popularity means it pushed out alot of other good TTRPGs from the zeitgeist
>This also means people will demand 5e at tables instead of trying other systems which might fit their game or playstyle better.
>Fanbase is populated by secondaries and casuals who care more about virtue signalling than pushing the game in a better direction.
Might be missing a couple but imagine if you knew a guy who demanded you ate at the same exact restaurant everytime you hung out and would not accept anything else.
Thats the 5e fanbase.
I also want to add to this and say I cant stand the fricking stat weights or skills in 5e.
Really think just how prevalent and constant something like Perception and Insight is vs. Religion, Nature, or fricking ANIMAL HANDLING.
You think oh Im customizing my character and giving them proficiencies in certain things to express who they are.
Yeah have fun making maybe 5 Animal Handling checks in an entire campaign
Skills are not meant to be equal. That's why some classes have easier access to some more than others, and why certain stats boost certain skills.
You need to look at the bigger picture. Kind of like how Eldritch Blast is by far the best attacking cantrip, but that's because it's stapled to a class that focused on attacking cantrips and no other class has access to it.
>Skills are not meant to be equal
Thats bad game design. Thats such a fricking pitfall for uneducated new players, or a super restrictive caveat for experienced players who want to customize a character.
It fricking sucks and Im tired of pretending it doesnt.
Not being able to use animal handling more often is a skill issue from the players. Animals are literally in the phb for purchase so you should be making checks all the time if you actually wanted to engage with the resources presented to you in the book.
Next you b***h about not being able to use persuasion because you fricking lie at every chance you get
Sweet summer child, it's game design.
Not good, not bad. It's has elements of both.
You need to graduate from this idea that mechanics only exist as all benefits or all drawbacks, and learn some pretty basic things like "If all things were equally balanced, they would lack all mechanical distinction." If you actually wanted all skills and stats to be equal among all members of the party and all party members to be absolutely equal in capability in all circumstances, you would have to strip the game of literally any form of mechanical distinction. Suddenly, it becomes apparent that forms of inequality are neccesary, and tooting the horn of "All things must be equal" is arguing in an extremely short-sighted sense.
Perception is overpowered largely thanks to novice DMs calling for perception checks every ten feet. You're right, in that it's overpowered compared to something like swimming in a desert campaign. However, in an aquatic campaign with many swimming challenges and few hidden enemies, Swimming suddenly becomes overpowered compared to Perception.
Ultimately, what we're looking at is a very short "pitfall". A pitfall that most players, after even just one session, will realize that yes, perception is a very good skill, and they'll invest in it more than something like animal handling. This isn't some genius realization you're expressing to the world, it's something just about everyone knows, an easy decision. And, easy decisions benefit games. They help players to feel like they're making the "right" decisions, and they can see those choices rewarded as early as their second or even first session.
It may sound like I'm over-defending the decision, but that's just because you've never considered the positive aspects and have only focused on the negatives. While I personally prefer skill systems to be more balanced, I also understand the benefits of 5e's approach, and you would do well to consider them even beyond what I've laid down here.
I'd love to read all of that if you could not start your explanation like the most insufferable of homosexuals.
Unironically go back to your upvote cesspit you fricking tourist
>sweet summer child
jesus fricking christ go the frick back to le reddit
>You need to graduate from this idea that mechanics only exist as all benefits or all drawbacks, and learn some pretty basic things like
You need to graduate from life and learn some pretty basic things like how to tie a noose moron
have a nice day.
>You need to graduate from this idea that mechanics only exist as all benefits or all drawbacks, and learn some pretty basic things like "If all things were equally balanced, they would lack all mechanical distinction."
Yeah, that's why the Protoss, Zerg, and Terran all have exactly the same units.
And?
Perhaps what you thought is "balanced" is only "reasonably balanced but actually skewed towards protoss being the strongest."
>easiest to execute
Fixed that for you.
Rock Paper Scissors doesn't have players equally play each hand, despite the fact that they are obviously all mechanically identical.
In RPS tournaments, all three hands tend to be rather equally distributed, because top level players rely on pre-randomized strategies to prevent personal bias coming into play.
But, you did demonstrate that even something as simple as the fluff attached to a mechanic can make it unbalanced, ie. Paper being generally the strongest hand to throw among casual players thanks to casual players having a psychological disposition towards throwing rock first, and scissors becoming stronger among more experienced players, all the way up to the top where players rely on pure random chance to prevent themselves from having any strategy their opponents could take advantage of.
>sweet summer child
I'm gonna cankle pick you you fat frick plebbitor
>Sweet summer child
Every time someone uses this, it's always followed by the worst take imaginable.
It's like fricking clockwork.
Are you really so mad about being laid out that you're going to continue to avoid acknowledging you can't refute anything that was said? Sounds pretty petty.
I understand where anon is coming from. It does disservice to whatever point the person is trying to make by poisoning the well immediately with an insufferable tone that presents itself as infantilizing.
Is it petty to disregard what COULD be good reasoning simply because you're acting like a huge homosexual in the process? Maybe not but you shouldn't be surprised that it isn't received warmly.
>maybe or maybe not
This isn't worth the effort deleting and fixing in repost
Its not a pitfall at all if you have common fricking sense. Every character is not going to be equally capable, you should know that from REALITY and know that if you choose to play a character less capable at the core gameplay, you're going to have to stomach not always being the best at everything and/or be very creative and self-motivated to find solutions to problems within your wheelhouse.
Making every single character equally powerful by giving every character different flavors of bullshittium to expend is not only lazy, it also becomes rapidly incoherent.
My point more stems in how just unbelievably underutilized and borderline useless a good number of the skills are.
Even taking published material and tallying everything up its insane how powerful Perception and Insight are RAW vs. much more niche skills.
Now if those very niche skills like Nature, Arcana, Animal Handling, etc. had the caveat of "okay theyre much less common, but as a trade off theyre much more rewarding to succeed on" Id agree.
But in your average game of 5e its much more important just give yourself Perception, Insight, and Acrobatics/Athletics because without them youre not going to survive long enough to make taking that Arcana proficiency worth it.
It just homogenizes how you should create a character over your vision of said character.
Its boring.
Ask anybody with brains and theyll tell you the best way to "build" a character is PRIMARY STAT>CON>WIS and then everything else is basically dump/filler.
Thats not even minmaxxer talk. Thats what 5e as a system INCENTIVIZES you to do.
This is a problem of 5e's scope (pretending its an everything game) and not so much an inherent flaw of game design.
It’s not really a flaw if you read the book and don’t get bamboozled by strangers
In my game we've used religion and nature way more times than insight tbh
Wait this guy actually plays table top games? Get his ass
Because I don't have fun playing it, which is the greatest sin a game can commit.
still better than pf2e though
I just prefer 2.5 ADnD.
From my experience DMing it once:
- Combat is slow but not tactically deep. I've enjoyed both mechanically meaty combat (e.g. Exalted 3e) or light combat (e.g. Mothership).
- Combat intended to be a constant feature of the setting, thus multiple encounters per day, unlike virtually every RPG that isn't a D&D-alike, where combat is a "once in a while" feature.
- The word "might" occurs in the DMG 500+ times because virtually all of the advice there is of the form "maybe you could do A, or B, or C. No I will not tell you why you would do any of these over the others."
- Basic gameplay procedures (e.g. costs of magic items) simply do not exist.
It's basically a sluggish, uninteresting, but overly detailed combat engine, with fluffy nothing everywhere else. Trash.
>multiple encounters a day
thats a "my group" problem, but in my group we have like 1 encounter, max 3 and then like 1-3 sessions without any encounter just talking.
everyone can just blow all their recources into basic enemies without problem. i hate it.
i´m glad we are doing a book adventure now. the spread is as it should be.
>thats a "my group" problem,
Technically it's a "your group" solution. The DMG suggests you should run X amount of encounters a day. If you aren't doing it, then it's your groups solution. Other Dms, like the ones in AL, WILL run the X encounters a day.
>Combat is slow but not tactically deep
Between the base rules and variant rules in the DMG, there's enough there to get some mileage, especially if you're not a moron who makes every room a 10x10 cube with no cover, elevation, etc.
>Combat intended to be a constant feature of the setting, thus multiple encounters per day, unlike virtually every RPG that isn't a D&D-alike, where combat is a "once in a while" feature.
Also untrue, most TTRPGs have rules for combat and see it occur frequently (i.e., the Star Wars system by West End Games which is anything BUT a D&Dalike, where combat is an extension of the skill system).
>The word "might" occurs in the DMG 500+ times because virtually all of the advice there is of the form "maybe you could do A, or B, or C. No I will not tell you why you would do any of these over the others."
This is fine, because only autistic morons can't handle on the fly decision making and thus should not run or play TTRPGs.You need to be ready to adapt to what the players do, and the freedom to do just about anything is the biggest strength of TTRPGs now that video games have largely usurped their place as b***h basic dungeon crawlers.
>Basic gameplay procedures (e.g. costs of magic items) simply do not exist.
This is objectively false, especially the magic items thing. Xanathar's Guide added a whole slew of rules for magic items, including both a base price and a rolled price table as well as rules for complications and bartering.
>BUT IT ISNT CORE-
It's still an officially printed splat, and if it was 3.X you wouldn't even whisper a complaint about it not being core because you 3aboos love your bloatware.
>Between the base rules and variant rules in the DMG, there's enough there to get some mileage
There really isn't. Tactical play is curtailed by the mechanics and the 'tactical' optional rules like flanking reduce depth because of how shoddily put together the game is.
>Between the base rules and variant rules in the DMG, there's enough there to get some mileage, especially if you're not a moron who makes every room a 10x10 cube with no cover, elevation, etc.
If I reinvent the entire system from scratch I can make combat good, yes, but it will still be slow and every monster in the book will be a bag of hit points + multiattack.
>Also untrue, most TTRPGs have rules for combat and see it occur frequently (i.e., the Star Wars system by West End Games which is anything BUT a D&Dalike, where combat is an extension of the skill system).
Combat existing in the game world != what D&D does to combat.
In Exalted or Mothership, combat is - in universe - a rare, story-important moment. A Wyld Hunt has managed to isolate you and are trying to kill you. An alien is crawling through the ventilation.
In D&D, you are expected to wade through one dungeon room full of orcs, then move on to the next dungeon room with a golem in it, then fight the zombies in the next dungeon room, all basically back-to-back.
>This is fine, because only autistic morons can't handle on the fly decision making and thus should not run or play TTRPGs.You need to be ready to adapt to what the players do, and the freedom to do just about anything is the biggest strength of TTRPGs now that video games have largely usurped their place as b***h basic dungeon crawlers.
>This is objectively false, especially the magic items thing. Xanathar's Guide added a whole slew of rules for magic items, including both a base price and a rolled price table as well as rules for complications and bartering.
If I have to make up all the rules and rulings and principles and buy six more books etc etc, why the FRICK would I pay money for this dogshit game? Fricking moronic-ass D&D player whose brain is literally dribbling out of his fricking skull because he's been choking out on WotC's dick for too long.
>dogshit
uh oh its that troll who always b***hes about dnd, using his catch phrase.
>i see word and i do word association to declare this some evil guy who is just trolling
No, the system is bad, and you are bad for defending it. It is a sluggish, flat combat system with fluffy nothing arranged around it, and I feel genuinely sorry for everyone who has their introduction to GMing being 5e.
>fluffy nothing arranged around it
what the frick are you talking about?
>trollschizo complaining about other people using catchphrases
Ironic.
I'm actually kind of glad that the moron has managed to figure out how to torpedo any of his own posts just by including a few choice phrases he's desperately been trying to force. Saves everyone the trouble of giving him a shred of the benefit of the doubt.
The trick to samegayging is not to reply to yourself in the same exact style as the posts you're replying you, my sweet greasy moron.
Unlike you, mr. samegayging expert, I don't do greasy shit.
lol I JUST played a game of 5e yesterday from not playing it in like 8 years or something. I've been playing other systems like Dungeon world, the Apocalypse engine, Fantasy craft, SotDL, SotWW, and I'm looking into Crown and Skull right now.
and HOLY SHIT, 5e is a fricking disaster of a game. I didn't realize until I was out of it all this time.
They don't. Ganker has to act contrarian because just as NPCs mindlessly consooooom so too does Ganker reeeeeaaaaact. If the mainstream said eating shit was bad, don't do it, anyone who does it is a bigot, you'd see threads here with people proudly proclaiming shit eating superiority.
>Ganker has to act contrarian because just as NPCs mindlessly consooooom so too does Ganker reeeeeaaaaact.
While Ganker is usually reactionary, Ganker is a very large group of people with different unfiltered ideas. The reason why /vt/ was created is because vtubers were so fricking popular, they needed a containment zone. If your hypothesis was correct, "Ganker" would hate vtubers, but this is not the case as we see with /vt/, but you can also point to /mlp/ and furries in general in /b/.
>If your hypothesis was correct, "Ganker" would hate vtubers, but this is not the case
way to out yourself as a tourist
>/tg/ is Ganker
I've been here since 2009 and you are incorrect. refer to >>>/vt/. Hell, video games are incredibly popular, we have a very popular Ganker board. So I don't know why you are arguing that Ganker, as a whole, is contrarian.
So let me get this straight. An anon said Ganker is contrarian and your immediate reaction was to type a post detailing why "actually nuh-uh"? Anon, I...
This basically.
>Ganker is not a contrarian monolith.
It absolutely fricking is, because the people who are contrary to the contrarians are treated like shit.
He deleted his post after he realized he was acting exactly how the other anon was saying.
@92432508
>popularity=/=bad
never said that. For instance, Helldivers is a good game and it is popular. These are two statements, they are different. Dnd 5e is a bad game and it is popular.
>There's plenty of worse games out there
Sure, Fatal is a game.
>obsessing about a game you don't even play
I'm the anon who played it yesterday and remembered why I don't play it. I think you are more obsessed with "trolling" or sucking WotC wiener. I think it's more trolling because of how you are writing. makes your peepee a little bigger when you see the red exclamation marks on your browser. I understand that you want attention, but this is not the way to go about it.
>solely because it's popular and that makes you mad
I'm mad because I wasted time playing it yesterday, and now I have to finish what I started and waste more of my time. I'm more mad at myself really.
dude holy shit go have a nice day
Stupid lore changes. Ex, Fang Dragons are now just grey-looking, petrifying breath-weapon dragons now rather than degenerate, hungry, spikey boys.
What's not to dislike?
>less shit
>worse rules
>seems more like classic dnd superficially, actually isn't at all
Lmao
yea but rewrite wut u dun liek wurst troll
stop saying bad ting about dnd outside of dnd containment u haeter
I dont like it
DnD 5e is just a board game at this point.
If you want real RP look somewhere else like Call of Cthulhu or something.
I still don't understand how people can sit there and roll damage dice for 2 hours, shit is boring as frick.
CoC is for theatergays. What's truly hard to understand is how people can sit there and just talk as if they're some 1920s professor or investigator for literally the entire session because you'll be doing NOTHING exciting until the very end, where the monster is revealed and kills you all or drives you all insane without you bejng able to do a single thing about it. I'm here to play a GAME homosexual.
~~*roleplayer*~~ unable to replay
>many such cases
Just keep throwing dice and getting the naty twenties my dude
*roleplay
You've literally never played CoC in your entire life and it shows.
I'm sort of a newbie to ttrpgs, started playing 5e last september and, while I've enjoyed it, it feels like a lot of it is written poorly so it's up to DM to rule how things will work.
Tried FATE afterwards for a mini campaign and it seemed suitable due to how unique the setting was, but I didn't like the system much due to it being way more "cooperative storytelling" than "game".
5e campaign is still ongoing but DM wants to switch to Pathfinder 2e. At first it seemed cool, but the more I read about it, the worse it looks, but I'll be open to try, I guess. Although maybe I'm just being affected by how much DM shits on the current campaign before even finishing it.
Because it has a really strong culture and is the best at retaining new players who normally wouldn’t be interested in ttrpg.
>truth seekers
Which is why we need to be careful about contrarians.
Contrarians don't care about the truth, the just want to run contrary to popular opinion, even if popular opinion happens to be right.
It's very easy for people to make the mistake of imagining that contrarians willing to fight for their unpopular beliefs are fighting for the truth, but when that "fighting" just manifests as anonymously b***hing about anything that's popular whenever that popular thing gets mentioned, it really just becomes a new form of biased misinformation.
>Ganker use to be anarchistic and truth seekers
your deluding yourself friend if you think it hasn't been this way for over a decade now
>Having children is immoral and evil as frick
If shit hits the fan I will make my personal mission to shoot every anti humanist, nihilist, cynic frick in the head.
>if shit hits the fan
Do it now coward.
Stop with the glow already ffs.
You'd be happier dead and you know it
Here's a reminder for you:
If this were in favor of arguments on the other side of the political spectrum, there would be three times as many replies and they'd all be crying about /misc/.
These threads never contain arguments that go deeper than personal taste and mostly contain falsehoods that can be disproved just by reading the PHB and DMG again.
Also, changing to a different system doesn't do jack shit if the players don't change their mindset as well.
>Also, changing to a different system doesn't do jack shit if the players don't change their mindset as well.
what do you think people are talking about when they describe DnD brainrot?
Re-read the thread. Bounded Accuracy alone ruins the whole system.
lol, you're treating it like a buzzword because you're a moron.
i'll give you a heads up why everyone thinks you're a frickhead
if you exaggerate the negatives of anything and ignore all the positives, you're just a dumb c**t.
>i'll give you a heads up why everyone thinks you're a frickhead
nta but please have a nice day on behalf of everyone who has ever had the displeasure of interacting with you.
What a fricking pussy you have to be to pretend as though there's some kind of hidden majority there to back you up, as if your aware you're too fricking weak willed to be confident in your own opinion.
i'm helping you out you homosexual.
or did you want to keep looking like a moron to everyone? frick you.
>everyone
who, your subreddit?
your mom took my dick out of her mouth just long enough to tell me you look like.a moron.
>your mom took my dick out of her mouth just long enough to tell me you look like.a moron.
looks like you're too busy thinking about my wiener to make a reply
runs in the family i guess.
>everyone
>everyone
>everyone
>everyone
You got caught being fricking pathetic. I'm not interested in insulting you outside of what I can directly observe, which is your reddit tier "please approve of my opinions and validate me" ass post. Why would even pretend to be speaking for a larger audience? Just same gay, you're clearly not above it.
don't believe me? try this.
go outside, scream "BOUNDED ACCURACY MAKES ME SO FRICKING UPSET" for hours
and see how many people call you a homosexual.
i'm betting it's gonna be everyone.
I cannot express enough how much I do not give two shits about you outside of your immediate failures.
You don't exist outside of some pathetic moron who uses an invisible crowd to build the confidence enough to argue anonymously online. I don't give two shits about your original point, you're fricking pathetic for relying on "muh imaginary people" to make a point.
You'd still be pathetic if you were relying on a majority of people. You think cause a majority of people eat shit, that would suddenly make it a gourmet meal? The fact that you feel the need to double down at all proves to me you already know you're a spineless frick who can't stand on their own two legs in an argument, how the hell do you have such a low opinion of yourself you don't feel confident on an anonymous goddamn forum without the safety blanket of normies?
>dies of cringe
lol, all this text because you know everyone would call you a homosexual because you're acting like a homosexual.
The silent majority plays and enjoys the world's GREATEST, 5e scholars run this board and run the tabletop space
>Eat shit, billions of flies can't be wrong!!
Yeah, and nobody DMs it because the system is an absolute trash fire to DM.
>Are you looking for a fun and engaging way to empower your students to become more confident, tackle challenges head-on, and learn perseverance? Download the NEW Puzzles, Mazes, and Mysteries D&D-inspired teaching kits for grades 4-6 and 6-8!
you fricking telling me that you struggle to dm a game designed for fricking children? you dumb or something?
I might as well be doing all the work myself for all the system helps me and that's discounting it constantly getting in the way.
>Can't even run game designed for children.
Children are too stupid to realize that they're being hoodwinked.
It has the most GMs by a wide, wide country mile.
The issue is just that naturally, players will outpace GMs. It takes longer to be a GM in any game than it does to be a player, so that's just the natural way of things.
5e's GMing disparity problem doesn't come from that it's hard to GM, it's that it's just that it's too popular for its own good, and the ratio of GM:Player is not a linear constant. As more and more casual players are added to the pool, the disparity will rise, and this will hold true for literally any game. Hell, many less popular games suffer from the inverse problem, because it has many "invested" people willing the GM, but not enough more "casual" people.
For any game, the initial pool of players will be more "invested", and as the player base expands, it will grow more "casual". And, ultimately, the GM:Player ratio will favor the Players more and more. What makes 5e special is that no other game has, according to WotC spokesman so take this with a grain of salt, sold as well or as quickly. It sold more in its first month than 97% of games sell in their entire lifetimes. We're talking about industry warping growth that's amazingly still continuing, making WotC push back the next edition despite it being a decade since the game came out and the previous edition only lasting for 6 years and the previous previous edition lasting for only 8, with a .5 release after only 3 years.
5e is a bizarre animal.
>It has the most GMs by a wide, wide country mile.
Yeah, and there are more members of the CPC than there are voters in Germany. Guess that means China is more democratic, huh?
D&D is uniquely stuck in a position of choking on fumes trying to find GMs, because other RPG systems actually include useful GM advice, guidance, mechanics, structure, etc. Other RPG devs know that they need to onboard GMs and make it easy, while 5e's DMG was clearly written by somebody terrified by offending existing GMs from previous editions by actually providing any concrete advice or procedures.
There are virtually no rules for anything outside of combat. The DC chart doesn't even explain what it means by "easy". I am sure you will slurp WotC's dick down your throat to explain how this is fine and epic and great, actually, because you can simply figure out what "easy" means (easy for a pro? easy for a pro under stress? easy for an amateur? easy for an amateur under stress?), but there is no reason to charge $50 for a book of such vacuous, empty, nothing content, nor to defend it. But you will. You will because you cannot accept that you have invested so much time into such a trash system.
>what does easy mean? help me WotC I can't figure it out.
Most people can accomplish a DC 5 task with little chance of failure.
Then ask yourself, "Is this task's difficulty easy, moderate, or hard?" If the only DCs you ever use are 10, 15, and 20, your game will run just fine. Keep in mind that a character with a 10 in the associated ability and no proficiency will succeed at an easy task around 50 percent of the time.
illiterate?
>Also pirate things you fricking idiot, all this shit is online
You're exaggerating to the point of lying.
5e is one of the easiest games to run. There's mountains of tools, both official and unofficial, for any GM, including full play examples that some people just literally watch like they think it's a form of entertainment.
Holy frick, now that I'm actually looking at what you wrote, I can't even figure out a way for you to be more wrong than you are. Hell, the 5e DM's guide is so easy and clear even young children are playing 5e. I mean, fricking hell, there's literally thousands of guides online on how to play (including hundreds of official and semi-official ones), dozens of websites, and no shortage of youtube videos desperately vying for people's attention and trying to teach them everything from how to play to how to play in a way that is trans-friendly if anyone was interested in that for some ungodly reason.
You can literally go from novice to GM in less than an hour, but I'm guessing it seems like most people just naturally enjoy playing more than GMing.
Things outside of the books are not features of a game.
>You can literally go from novice to GM in less than an hour, but I'm guessing it seems like most people just naturally enjoy playing more than GMing.
Amazing that 5e still manages to have a shortage of people actually willing and able to run the game since they consider it too difficult, despite this claim.
>Things outside of the books are not features of a game.
It is when we're talking about official apps, the official website, and videos sponsored by the company, alongside materials published on their platform.
And please, listen to a word I've said.
>most people just naturally enjoy playing more than GMing.
When you read that, don't forget-
>the ratio of GM:Player is not a linear constant. As more and more casual players are added to the pool, the disparity will rise, and this will hold true for literally any game.
5e's DM disparity issue shouldn't be a surprise, especially because that disparity is largely just something that exists online, where the format for games and composition of groups is quite different. And, above all else, if any game was even remotely as popular as 5e has grown to be, it would see similar stresses. Your "The ratio hasn't remained consistent, that means that there's something wrong with GMing in 5e!" theory just doesn't hold any weight, and has about as much merit (or actually, maybe less) as "Whoa, playing 5e is too much fun, they need to tone it down!"
The fact that a significant portion of 5e players need a site like D&D Beyond to make their characters for them is an extremely bad sign. It does make things easier, but it fosters a lack of understanding, which is baffling considering how dumbed down 5e is.
As for the DM to Player ratio, 5e's is noticeably bad and it's both because of the way the game was designed, presented, and sold, but also because of the kind of community that was grown around it. That's not so much WotC's fault directly, as there's only so much they could do to foster the community and in most cases they have let everyone else do it for them. However, if you are someone looking to play D&D with other D&D players, the quality of the community is a concern, although still not a direct feature of the game in a literal sense.
>significant portion of 5e players need a site like D&D Beyond
i believe its just a general issue in which people are getting more dependent on technology without understanding how things work just in general
like AI, its cool and all, but also, people use it to write essays, code, make pictures, answer questions, etc.
if you think that using a tool like dndbeyond is bad, think of the next generation using chatgpt for homework
>i believe its just a general issue in which people are getting more dependent on technology without understanding how things work just in general
Probably to some extent, but it's also true that TTRPGs used to be a nerd hobby. That meant players were, generally, smart enough to have all their shit memorized. 5e is definitely the most well know game, which has brought in, quite frankly, a lot of low quality players who can't memorize their shit. D&D Beyond solves that problem by making it easy to look up their stuff because they are constantly needing to double check what their characters/spells/feats do.
>has brought in, quite frankly, a lot of low quality players who can't memorize their shit
I'm sure you had instantly memorized everything about your first game when you had just started playing RPGs. Ease off the new players a little.
Like, I get it. I have endured the friend's girlfriend who's been "playing" for three years and still needs attack rolls explained to her every fricking game. But, you generally have to give new players some slack, and also recognize people can bring more to a game than just the ability to recite the rules.
One guy I've played with is absolutely terrible with rules, but is still excellent to play with because he's just naturally charismatic and knows how to work well within a group. Even though he sucks at math and can't memorize even the most basic abilities, he's still hugely a net positive to any game he's a part of because he knows how to make a party feel cohesive and actually enjoyable to be in.
Between him and some c**t of a rules lawyer, I'd take him any day. While I'd definitely prefer if he'd actually fricking learn the rules, I don't really hold it against him because he's basically more golden retriever than human.
I'm not bagging on new players, I get it. I'm just saying that the exact type of people you described are probably contributing to D&D Beyond's success. Old grogs who dream about AD&D character sheets are not the target demographic for the platform.
>The fact that a significant portion of 5e players need a site like D&D Beyond
Need? Do they? How do you know they're not just electing to use an app because it's free, readily available, widely advertised, and makes the process easier? You know, acting rationally?
Also, what portion is "significant"? Where are you getting your numbers from? Your imagination?
For frick's sake. I know you're just sort of trolling around, but frick me at least go somewhere NEAR reality instead of just trying to extrapolate ideas out of your butthole.
I've seen you try and use this GM:Player ratio argument before, but you really don't seem to appreciate just how silly your whole attempt is, because I'm betting if it were the other way around, as it is with most games at the moment thanks to D&D sucking up all the "casual" type of people who gravitate more towards being a player, you would be saying that there was something fundamentally wrong with 5e because it didn't have enough players.
Right now, non-5e GMs are expressing difficulty finding players. Some have even voiced those complaints in this very thread. Are you going to say "There must be something fundamentally wrong with playing those games", or are you going to just accept that different kind of people gravitate towards being GMs and players, and that 5e's current ratio is a result of having successfully cornered just about the entirety of the more casual type of person who is naturally more inclined to be a player rather than a GM? Hell, it didn't just corner that market, it dramatically expanded it, introducing even more people into the hobby. And, while more casual people may upset more invested people with high purity standards, casual people eventually grow more invested. It's kind of like complaining about a field being muddy after its been tilled without realizing that it's just one step before we get crops.
>5e's is noticeably bad
Your ass isn't facts. Let's try to stick to facts.
Quiet greasy boy. The adults are talking.
Man, frick off.
God, you're so fricking greasy that you're even petty about being called greasy.
Awfully greasy posts you're making there.
>5e is one of the easiest games to run
No
>5e is one of the easiest games to run
Yes
Let's have a race.
First guy to get 10 groups of four players each playing a game wins.
What system are you picking?
No one runs 5e cause the people it attracts, simple as.
>buzzword
It's literally the term that WotC themselves used to describe the overarching design philosophy that informs character progression, CR balancing, monster design, and the overall feel of the game. It's also been discussed to death for the past decade, so apologies that you were not spoonfed an exhaustive dissertation that met your incredibly high intellectual standards, because you wouldn't read it anyways, and retreat into your usual kicking and screaming.
Yeah, it's the term WotC used, but hardly the buzzword you're trying to turn it into,
You're like one of those trolls who try to shitpost about "Caster supremacy" in 5e, without realizing all they're doing is recycling dumb arguments from two editions ago. Or the "HP Bloat" moron who is just taking complaints from 4e and trying to pass it on to 5e, where the exact opposite problem (damage being capable of dramatically outpacing HP) exists. You like catchy phrases, and have no problem jumping on WotC's wagon and trying to appropriate a catchy phrase they used.
In short, you're trying to spin up some complaints about something you don't really understand. All you want to do is gather enough text that you can SOUND like you imagine people who know what they're talking about sound like, but you have no idea that all the text you gathered sounds stupid because you genuinely don't know any better.
And this is the best case scenario, where you're just mildly moronic. The worst case is you doubling down and pretending these are your own, genuine opinions, because at that point you're terminally moronic and doctors should contact your loved ones because you're just too stupid for this world and you don't have much time left.
It's fascinating that you think people who do not meet your arbitrary standard of opinion legitimacy cannot have meaningful, informed beliefs and criticisms, while at the same time, openly displaying that you will take any any all complaints or criticisms in bad faith and dismiss them because they conflict with your deep brainrot.
People genuinely, sincerely, objectively believe that 5e is a bad game, no matter how obsessively you want to believe it's all a desperate act to spite you, and you alone, because you have repeatedly admitted that any criticism of 5e sends you into an inconsolable tard rage.
Nobody has ever thought a single thing you've ever said has ever been witty or intelligent.
No one can be as dumb as you're pretending to be.
That's really it. Anyone who's actually played the game sees right through you, which is why it's so easy to confidently call you out. The joke is that you're pretending to have enough experience with the game to comment on it, when all you've ever illustrated is that if you did indeed ever play the game, you managed to accomplish one of the rarest feats of 5e; playing it wrong.
It takes either a special kind of stupid or a an even greater kind of deliberate stupidity to play an RPG wrong, and yet here you are, leaving no room for anyone to think of you as anything other than one of those two kinds of idiots.
Just take the L and admit you've never played the game and are just badly pretending that you have your own opinions on it, because the alternative is that you're actually as dumb as you're pretending to be.
You can shout "UR DUMB" over and over again, but it's only conceding that you are only interested in unconditionally defending 5e because you have brainrot.
There you go again trying to force a phrase.
Christ, you're a greasy loser.
Look, no one is "unconditionally defending 5e". You don't need to leap to that level of hyperbole just to try and find some kind of ground to stand on, you greasy shit.
What you do, and keep doing, is taking something from 5e, trying to work your little greasy brain on all the things that might potentially be bad about it, exaggerate it and use hyperbole, and then imagine you've made something that could be mistaken for an unbiased and well-thought out argument when all you've done is demonstrated that you're a greasy c**t willing to perform intense mental gymnastics.
So, quit it with all your greasy little "tactics." All you want to do is complain, and no one is fooled otherwise, especially because it's very clear all you can do is complain. Hell, if 5e gave you a million dollars, you'd complain the suitcase was too heavy.
When you refuse to accept that anyone could have any reason to dislike 5e, and then ascribe an elaborate paranoid delusion about their ulterior motives, you are unconditionally defending 5e. It's what you always do. It's what you've always done. You believe 5e is beyond reproach and despite engaging in these arguments incessantly, you never ever entertain the idea that 5e has problems that could make people dislike it enough to say so on the internet.
You have severe mental problems and you've shown as much repeatedly in this thread alone. In the context that you've done this exact same shit for years, it paints an even more dire picture that you have a manic obsession with 5e and defending it, and feel an obvious compulsion to engage in these pitiful debate club antics where you immediately lose your cool and result to slinging insults like a child having a temper tantrum because you refuse to accept that 5e is a bad game with problems.
Or, if we want to keep it short, you have brainrot and you're a moronic homosexual with no life.
>When you refuse to accept that anyone could have any reason to dislike 5e
You greasy loser, you're harping about bounded accuracy like you think it killed your father and raped your mother.
Frick off. This isn't some hypothetical scenario. This is you being a little b***h, right in this very thread, for everyone to see.
nta but why is it that you're only capable of communicating in that moronic pseudo intellectual reddit speak acting like a 15 year old boy whose xbox got taken away?
It's either "oh you sweet summer child, let me spill the tea for you sis" or "dumb homosexual, lmao your so fricking stupid lol"
The frick is wrong with you?
Whoa, trying to reframe my posts because they can't be refuted? Let's not get greasy here.
If you actually feel sorry for these dumb c**ts for being treated like morons, I can only guess you sympathize with them, and it takes a moron to have any sort of sympathy for these morons.
So, go ahead and frick off as well, you sweet summer child.
Everyone can see it just fine. And every time you do this, more people recognize that it's you, the schizo crying about trolls and defending 5e as if it were your mother, and then they tell you to frick off and have a nice day repeatedly. But go on and think that you've got an audience cheering you on as you do battle with "/tg/'s worst troll" as if you didn't have enough delusions already.
>You're like one of those trolls who try to shitpost about "Caster supremacy" in 5e, without realizing all they're doing is recycling dumb arguments from two editions ago. Or the "HP Bloat" moron who is just taking complaints from 4e and trying to pass it on to 5e, where the exact opposite problem (damage being capable of dramatically outpacing HP) exists.
Those aren't trolls. They're literally right.
No anon in this thread has brought up arguments on bounded accuracy that go beyond personal taste.
Long time reader first time poster in this thread. Saying that you can reaffirm the objective truth by reading the books has a very religious fundie element to it. If I ever doubt in dnd5e I can simply reread the PHB and know that WOTC loves me, and by reciting the holy prayer of the armour table I will be saved from the sinful temptation of Satan who is trying to seduce me into playing another game. Very cool but weird attitude.
Indeed, WotC loves you and your juicy, succulent brain. They are also not run by a cabal of mind flayers. MM, pg. 3
I'm going to be real. I thought I hated D&D, but the issue was I was only familiar with 3e. Baldur's Gate 3 actually completely changed my opinion on D&D as a system as it has so far been my only exposure to 5e and honestly 5e is a great system. It's simple, AC is still fricking dumb, but it's not nearly as total bullshit as 3.5e which is both one of the most needlessly complex systems I've interacted with while achieving nothing through the needless, bloated complexity. Pathfinder too because it's also based off of that abomination of a ruleset.
Mind I'm not against good complexity, I love the GURPS system. But holy fricking christ do I hate how old D&D handled weapon proficiencies, combat in general, and would punish you for taking non combat orientated roles.
>I hate how my dungeoneering combat tabletop game punished me for refusing to play what the game is designed for
moron alert
moron alert
Dungeoneering isn't about punching things in the face dumbass, there's things like logistics and other roles in the party. You should be able to roleplay as a cook in the party without nuking your combat role, or for that matter having everything revolve around combat either. I don't need to get my willies by punching imaginary goblins. That's just a road to completely repetitive, meaningless action slop.
>You should be able to roleplay as a cook in the party without nuking your combat role
If your DM is requiring you to actually take feats or something to do basic human functions he's a shit DM.
If you're trying to play a full-time non-adventurer, you're a shit player.
Literally everything good about BG3 comes from Larian and not 5E.
Isn't the combat feat system still based on 5e? One of the things I fricking despised in the old editions was how martial worked and the need to take proficiencies in specific weapons vs as a group. Whoever came up with that idea should be shot, repeatedly.
>5E feats
>Good
at least it's not two or three fricking instances that make a lognsword good but somehow no other sword type.
Yeah how they killed bounded accuracy, made resting inconsequential, moronic op haste multi attack, mmo set bonuses, shove and jump existing the way they do, no dodge action, terrible larian writing and characters where the level 1 wizard was literally fricking the god of magic, no evil ending epilogue.
Yes. Larian identified what made 5E shit early on and made it clear they did. That's why weapons have their own abilities, they gave you extra bonus action tools, dropped enemy HP like a rock, gave you tons of environmental interactions, and changed the way some spells worked.
And it's still not a good game because they didn't go far enough.
It's not really D&D so I don't care for it.
But it's not really hatred so much as I don't care about it in the same way I don't care about Sword Lesbians or Daggerheart. It's just not in my sphere of interest at all and what little i've seen of the people who play it seems offputting.
Real 5e has never been tried.
They don't, it's the most popular TTRPG on the planet.
If you mean why does /tg/ hate 5E, it's because it's full of contrarians.
Being the most popular does not mean it's good. The fact that it is not good is why /tg/, and the dedicated RPG community does not like that brand recognition and free word of mouth from "5e is newbie friendly!" morons who have never played another game allows D&D to be successful despite its many failings and WotC/Hasbro's moronic behavior.
no but its contrarian to not like the thing everybody else likes
>Being the most popular does not mean it's good
the question was why do people hate it.
next you'll say that crit role is making their own game like we should care what crit role does.
I didn't say it was good. I said that people clearly do not hate 5E, at least generally-speaking.
/tg/ statistically loves 5e.
Its contrarians only make up a tiny percent of the board, and this fact makes them so mad that they try their hardest to look like more than they actually are.
That's really all these shitposters are. A few people, working their hardest to look like more.
>muh survey
Does not matter. 5e is still a bad game and you're still a colossal homosexual for believing that no one can hold an opinion against something popular. 40k and MtG are popular on this board too and both of those games are worse than 5e. The quality of a game does not matter and has no bearing on anyone's ability to have a negative opinion on it for any reason, no matter how bad that chaps your oversensitive baby ass.
>does not matter
Why are you so mad that most of /tg/ disagrees with you?
This isn't a matter of "wrong" or "right," you fricking autist. It's just an opinion on a game.
Your subjective opinion belongs to that of a minority. That doesn't make you wrong, it just means most people will disagree with your personal, subjective, and apparently extremely biased opinion.
How about we all stop ARGUING and just have a nice session together?
i hate how its been dumbed down to the lowest of lowest common denominator. dude, normies can understand complex systems, but 5e is just so fricking simple even a chicago south-sider can play it and roflstomp the game despite his inability to read, write, calculate or generally understanding what the frick he's doing.
that's why i hate 5e,it catters to the most blatantly moronic buttholes possible.
it catter to The Wider Audience(tm)(c)(r) and Diversity Quota """"People""""
EVERYONE LISTEN UP. Thread is at the bunp limit. Let's promise no one makes another 5e hate thread until next week. Ok? We can resume April 14th.
>336 replies
you fricking mouthbreathers are why this board is so shit
Don't hate it, but compared to 3ed, character builds are pretty simplistic and "locked in", with little meaningful mechanical difference between a 12th level human Champion and a 12th level tiefling Champion.
You -could- take some Feats and things to make stuff different, but by this point the system is falling apart. Min-maxers have already figured out the meta, and how your build doesn't match up to the "ideal". Story-driven gamers meanwhile are looking into other systems because at this level the game is no longer light enough to keep their attention. And everybody is probably getting a sense of "been there, done that" with the system.
It's not that 5ed is inherently worse than 3ed or AD&D or whatever, it's just that if the grognards playing the older games (3ed rev is 21 years old now and can legally drink) haven't admitted their edition is shit too by now, they aren't going to.
(cont)
And it's not that D&D is shit and some other game isn't. You're having fun with it? You're having fun with it! But don't mistake "fun" with "perfect", because all these games are objectively broken at some point and you can't make something that's objectively fun. Only subjectively.
It's a related topic that hasn't been brought up in this thread, but people will go out of their way to mangle, ignore, or rewrite the rules in order to make the game suit their needs, and that's perfectly fine and a natural part of learning how to actually enjoy RPGs, but then they go and glorify that as a feature of D&D to be lauded.
>We wrote up our own classes
>Remade the entire skill system
>The DM wrote an entire original setting with unique races and lore
>A lot of our sessions have zero dice rolling at all
>any time the rules get in the way, we just ignore them
>and that's why 5e is such a great system!
I can understand people having a place in their heart for the system that first introduced them to the hobby and gave them the spark to pursue their own thing, but it's outright moronic to say "5e is such a great system because of [reason that explicitly and overtly implies that 5e, as a system, was a problem that was solved by ignoring or throwing out most of the system and making up something else instead]"
And that's not even a badwrong fun kind of problem, if you ask me. Play whatever you want however you want. I just don't want people giving credit to WotC who was so fricking incompetent that they looped around and now get praised for making a system so bad that it forces people to make their own better version out of the broken pieces they paid WotC for.
I know having a system so simple and streamlined I can just wing things in the middle of a session is a nice feature. But part of that just comes with familiarity with the rules, and the other part comes from confidency in what you're doing. None of which is a unique feature to any game. But when the whole table is ignoring the rules, maybe the rules aren't worth paying attention to in the first place.
(I will say though that I've had sessions without any dice rolling, simply because everything was either role-played out, or because I didn't feel like making them roll for every &^%$ing little thing when they're supposed to be competent in the task at hand.)