>non CSM chaos cults are literally most common chaose enemies in fluff
>shitton of fleshed out material in multiple books
>multiple models already exist , both in gw range and in old forgeworld stuff
>implementing them would require literally no changes or modification to existing lore to explain their presence
>huge potential for conversions and makimng them yourdudes
>by definition a mass army, so opportunity to push massive amounts of models to whales , so gw accountants and shareholders would be happy.
And yet GW failed to do it properly for over 3 decades. Not oc**ting ephemerals like vraks list or lost and damned from 3rd ed, cultists are mere addition to CSM lists at best.
Is there any hidden reason for this?
Lost and the Damned could happen at this point, with all the Kill Team non-CSM chaos warbands, they can basically make it a faction again. Just make an upgrade kit for guard vehicles.
Does there even need to be an upgrade kit?
Just use Guard and Genestealer shit and say its looted.
Traitor rules, that's all they need to do.
Rules that allow you to simply change words around. A few secondaries and strats with names changed. Maybe fluffy ones too.
Let people make traitor guard, fallen sisters. Give people more opportunities to be creative for fricks sake
This.
Just add another faction to Astra Militarum. Or - AM allies to CSM, like with Genestealer Cults.
>i need GWs permission to convert or homebrew
Absolutely brainbroken consumer
Because they want you to play Warhammer fantasy instead they don’t even give a frick about Imperial guard why would you think they care about their moronic little brother when they could just release more chaos space marines. 40k is not the humanity setting it’s the trans humanity setting
Wrong, it's the MUHrine setting. It would actually be significantly better if it was the transhuman setting as there is actually quite an interesting slew of tranhumans in the setting.
>trashhumans
For the last time, you're faction is supposed to suck. Sure they were overpowered in 8th, but the nerfs were necessary to make them playable at all. Stop your b***hing and just play Necrons if you want to be a prissy little robot. You got a game 5 years ago. Shut the frick up and stop your whining.
i really wish i did, but they arent marines so it wont happen
because 40k is now largely run by those who were already 40k fans and businesspeople instead of people who actually read and create other things and it's beginning to eat itself
I wish I could buy these cultists again instead of the stronk wamyn cultists currently for sale
Kek luckily I bought 60 of them at the tail end of 7th when they were cheap as frick
they do them literally everywhere else except regular 40k tabletop
why must we suffer like this
>why must we suffer like this
Because you're stupid enough to care about 40k in 20-frick-23.
Just print them
got a link for that stl?
use google
station forge - corrupted guard - the forsaken
Frick you obese megalodon, gimme hot-shots and volley guns for the vet. We're members of an inquisitorial retinue for emperor's sake, why do the mobeians get them but not ME
you're not part of the inquisitor's retinue, you don't even meet the inquisitor face to face, you're the bottom tier suicide troops sent into the shit to stall for time so he can do whatever it is he's really up to
You're literally an acolyte at level 30. You are part of his retinue, you get a rosette for your guns and everything
and yet you never meet him and are still working under other members of his crew instead, some of whom may not have even met him themselves. Hardly what I'd call 'part of his retuinue'.
There is a chance the inquisitor's dead and hasn't elevated any sucessors officially and it's all just high level acolytes running the show. or he's a fully sapient jokaero and doesn't want people knowing.
I would say that it's unlikely Grendel is dead purely because his interrogator is still around running the show. If the inquisitor was pushing up daisies I expect the interrogator would have gotten himself promoted to inquisitor and taking over officially instead of putting on a puppet show for the rest of the crew.
Completely irrelevant. moron.
You don't meet them because they have a secret identity.
Anon, are you afraid of kitbashing?
My kit bashes look like shit anon
Chaos is supposed to look like shit. They are chaos. Shiney uniform gear belongs to Ultramarines, not the ruinous powers. If you do insist on them looking like Golden Demon Awards, just practice and you will improve..
I would love a L&D codex that works kinda like Imperial Agents but better. In the meanwhile, you can always run them as GSC.
>Neophites: cultists with guns
>Acolytes: cultist with melee weapons
>Metamorphs: mutants
>Aberrants: accursed mutants/corrupted ogryns
>Locus Magus and Acolyte standard bearer:Dark Commune
>Brood Brothers: Traitor guard
GSC are good for mutants bands, traitor guard works great on IG index with demons
Actual unironic non-meme answer:
Because normal human factions like Guardsmen don't sell well
>y-yes they do!
They don't, you'd know this if you weren't no games. Guards players are pretty uncommon, it's also why they always get their codex last and don't get too many models outside of guaranteed money printers (like the Krieg kill team, that I've literally never seen anyone actually use in 40k). Turns out most people don't fancy the idea of having to paint hundreds of generic infantry models or buy a ton of really expensive tanks when they can just play some brainless Marines.
This, but with an extra dimension where you're looking at a whole load of conversions and unique paint jobs compared to the old 'flesh, cloth, flak jacket, straps' scheme.
Nobody's actually putting up the money for a project titled 'A Guard Army, But Where All The Models Are Spikey And Really Fricking Awkward to Paint'.
I dropped 4000 crowns to get 600+ of these bad motherfrickers and 60 ogryn. It is for 30k though so 40k not having rules doesn't matter too much for me
Frick
Kino.
I love WGA for their cheap plastic kits, but damn are their face sculpts bad. It’s good they include gasmask options in each kit.
Yeah, they are getting a headswap for sure. I plan to run them as Caliban Jaegers for my traitor DA
Use a color change at the seam, so it looks like they're wearing flayed skin.
I’m convinced it’s done purposefully to encourage headswaps and for creating piles of heads for terrain.
They do though homie. Most popular factions are Space Marines, Guard and Tau.
Half my lgs is guard
>can I have imperial guard, but with le epic spikes?
Frick No. Cry more chaosgay. We are the massed infantry faction, not you.
90% of them get put down by the guard, either from the planet they try to rise up on or from a nearby planet. They're rarely serious business until the traitor marines show up. Most chaos cults never really get past the stage of being a bunch of weirdoes in hiding. That or pirates. The sort of large scale ground wars that 40k is about rarely come about through the work of chaos cults alone without the involvement of chaos space marines or daemons. The imperial guard are just as likely to fight a planet spanning world war with completely ordinary secessionists as they are to fight a successful uprising of a chaos cult.
That said, yeah I still want them to have a dex. One for dank mech too.
Why couldn't we have this Guard again with the resculpts? Indisputably the best iteration of them.
Because GW is staffed by mongs that don't want to properly represent the setting.
>Chaos Cultists? They're weak, why would anyone want those? Here, more Space Marines!
...all the while failing to understand that when everything is >elite, nothing is.
Though I don't think Cultists should be a faction in themselves, but rather that Chaos as a whole should be reorganized. No more disjointed cHaOs DeMoNs and Legion-specific fractions, instead:
>Chaos Undivided
>Followers of Tzeentch
>Followers of Nurgle
>Followers of Khorne
>Followers of Slaanesh
...each would include Cultists, Marines, and Demons. If you wanted to go all-in on one, you can do that. If you want a mix of 2 or all 3, you can also do that. Undivided would be much lighter on Demons, but could have a straight-up regular military force occupying a large territory in the Galaxy.
That's how Age of Sigmar splits up their Chaos forces actually along with adding in Beastmen and Skaven. Works out pretty well for the most part, though souping is generally pretty bad since each army has specific army abilities that don't work with outside units so you're shooting yourself in the dick mixing and matching most of the time.
Yes I'd seen this. Something AoS managed to get right.
I'd also add in Skaven as a 6th 40k Chaos faction
>I'd also add in Skaven as a 6th 40k Chaos faction
Thank frick you have zero control over 40K then.
>AoS
That's exactly what WFB did - and AoS reunited chaos actually.
Are you moronic? Wfb had the exact same system as 40k, Warriors of Chaos Space Marines and Demons of Chaos as 2 factions + beastman and skaven which just remian unchanged,
The daring idea to put all Khorne units in a dedicated Khorne army hasn't been a thing till AoS came aorund
They didn't split chaos (in fantasy) up into mortals, daemons, beasts as totally seperate armies until 7th edition, in 6th you can natively soup them and daemons were still in the hordes of chaos army bbook, and in earlier editions there's even less seperation than in 6th.
khorne demonkin was in 7th 40k too.
Skaven are just the humans in 40k
>Is there any hidden reason for this?
It's to do with Second Edition. They looked at what people were using in their Chaos armies and found they were predominantly Chaos Space Marines with some daemons thrown in, so that is what the themed the Codex around. Beastmen and Cultists took the back seat.
All I need is chaos leman russ - even in legends.
They did, there was entire renegade army back in days, released with Vraks books, it didn't sell well.
You would know this if you weren't newbie.
>shitton of fleshed out material in multiple books
Yes including rules and models in older editions
>huge potential for conversions and makimng them yourdudes
why would this be something good in GW eyes? They alredy struggle and sethee with 3rd party models, GW want you to buy another monopose no options trademarked model, not give you /yourdudes/.
>by definition a mass army, so opportunity to push massive amounts of models to whales , so gw accountants and shareholders would be happy.
Whales buy marines and maybe IG but this is specific, rare kind of whale. People want their army to be special(Marines Custodes) and be "good guys"
That was all niche forge world shit. That's why it didn't sell.
Where are these dudes from?
Wargames Atlantic Damned.
I have seen practically no talk about them online, it seems they used all of their advertising budget in wargaming magazines.
NTA but looked them up. Looks like they are due May 2024. Lots of neat kits.
>I have seen practically no talk about them online
You should lurk over at /awg/ from time to time, WGA is a very popular topic there.
>That was all niche forge world shit. That's why it didn't sell.
Le shovel epic kriegers somehow sold despite being same niche forge world shit, that outside models was 75% no diferent from normal plastic guard.
Somehow overpriced flavor of guard sold better than brand new chaos army.
HH was also niche forgeworld shit yet it sold enough to be recognized and support as a fully-fledged side game.
The bigger discussion should just be about a baseline human army. A guard army can bring a lot of baggage and doctrinal hierarchy. There are all kinds of fluff reasons for Guard uniformity that might be explained by Mechanicus supply. Strip away the guard template and human armies can be as diversely organized and equipped as, well....humans. Humans can use bolters, muskets, crossbows, molotov wienertails, pulse rifles, and mining lasers.
Its really more of a question of letting people have access to a the diversity of the 40K weapons and equipment list (and vehicles). Once you have access to the baseline human profile and maybe a veteran profile you can kind of build whatever army you feel like.
-Traitor guard
-Cultists
-Pirate Raiders
-Insurrectionists
-Revolutionaries
-Separatists
-Unionizing asteroid miners
-Knight footmen
-Hive Gang Militia
-Rebels
-Aristocratic Household Guard
-Constabulary
-Hive City Black Bloc
-Scavengers
-Mutant Mobs
-Planetary Defense Forces
-Serfs
-Android Uprisings
-Xenos Sympathizers
-Renegade Androids
-Void Crew
-Slave/Gladiatorial Uprisings
-Wasteland Berserkers (and custom vehicles)
-Proletariat uprisings
-Feral Tribal Militia
-Rouge Trader Retinues
-Rioters
-Free Men & Women
Once you provide the basic template you allow people to explore whatever they want. Each one of these templates could be applied to a baseline human army that would allow for special command structures, attendant auxiliaries, and equipment variations. ,
A great precedent for this was the 2nd edition Eldar Guardian profile. At its core it was a base eldar but the variety of equipment variations (including jetbikes) meant that you could equip guardians for whatever tactical necessity you wanted to prepare for.
Back in 2nd edition you still knew they cared. You could even arm Genestealer cultist with crossbows strait out of the codex.
A built a cultist with a crossbow in 2023 and the police came to my house!
And don't be like, "no one would ever play an army with two or three troop profiles (ie; juve/civi, baseline troop, veteran). You pick the right template for your humans and look who else gets to hang out:
-Beastmen
-Arbites
-Squat prospectors
-Spyre Hunters
-Pit Slaves
-Ogre Body Guards
-Chaos Spawn
-Tau diplomatic cadre
-etc, etc, just to name a few
Its always a given that other 40K units can be auxiliaries in your force, its just that you're cenetring the human forces and their command structures.
To me this is a much more compelling and complex narrative structure instead of the uniformity of vanilla 40K factions. I don't really care if I lose while playing this way, just that I was able to build the army I wanted and contribute to the narrative in the way that appealed to me.
But given the diversity of weapons and even the broad list of factions I've spelled out. I'd wager that anyone with a shred of tactical acumen in their body could win more than a few games (even if it upsets the Marines).
>so much pointless options noone will even take
Yea best GW will give you is one off kill team while they continue producing more marines and slowly updating other faction's 10 years old miniatures.
they already do this in horus heresy, look at the imperial militia army list
unfortunately not compatible with nu40k
much too kino for james to even consider it.
James is cool when you play with his redhead stepchild instead of the mainline revenue stream
>the game that lets you build any human faction you want is the game that has no aliens
You are never going to get everything you like from any big company. At that point just play a better game instead
>the game that lets you build any human faction you want is the game that has no aliens
And this why this game is so good. Frick xenogays
They are not cool with it, they just put Militia and Daemons armies in pdf because it was alredy there in 30k when it was still FW sidegame, both armies are /yourdudes/ and they got bad rules so you don't want to play them, but you can't complain that army you build from conversions was taken from you.
Meanwhile Solar Auxillia and Mechanicum armies that have their own range got nice rulebooks.
If militia and daemons weren't in game before james took over from Alan's corpse it would never get even this pdf.
40k have simlar situation with legends, models you technically can take but are complete garbage so you don't.
Haven't you just returned to Rogue Trader at this point?
Just make up your own army entirely, without GW handholding you with some kind of sorry "whatever you want" pile of a list. Because this shit isn't going to work outside of the kind of circle of friends that you could talk into accepting your home-brewed list anyway. If your friends don't play ball... just count-as it. But something tells me what you're really after here isn't a way to run this great army idea you have, you're just in love with having a frickton of options just for their own sake (and perhaps because you want to imagine being the kind of person that goes for that kind of stuff). Actually using them? Nah...
Wouldn't they spend half their time killing each other?
R8 my list
Army Faction: Soulblight Gravelords
- Army Type: Kastelai
- Grand Strategy: Empire of Corpses
LEADERS
King Morlak Velmorn (220)
Wight King (150)
- General
- Command Traits: Undead Bladelord
- Artefacts of Power: Fragment of the Keep
Nagash (900)
BATTLELINE
Deathrattle Skeletons (220)
- Skeleton Champion
- 2 x Standard Bearer
Deathrattle Skeletons (220)
- Skeleton Champion
- 2 x Standard Bearer
Deathrattle Skeletons (110)
- Standard Bearer
- Skeleton Champion
OTHER
The Sons of Velmorn (220)
The Sepulchral Guard (100)
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Umbral Spellportal (80)
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
>No hoarfrost
ComeOnNow.jpg
What's stopping you from building a cultist-only csm army?
Rules.
Which rules? There's literally nothing stopping you.
You need to balance and check for synergies for yet another faction, create unique elements for the army etc. Its a shit ton of work which is expensive.
>huge potential for conversions and makimng them yourdudes
This is something GW is actively trying to discourage as people might not buy the 9th iteration of primaris lieutenant.
>multiple models already exist , both in gw range and in old forgeworld stuff
this would affect the sales of new models
>by definition a mass army, so opportunity to push massive amounts of models to whales , so gw accountants and shareholders would be happy.
You just said the models already exist, and they would be easy to convert from IG+chaosbits.
OP please finish highschool before posting africa-tier business ideas. Cult army would be a shit idea both in business and gameplaywise. It would just be another cog to be fine tuned in this machine of shit balancing and poorly written rules.
Youre better off with homebrew and playing with your local group.
>reddit spacing
Consider killing yourself, world would be better without you.
You are right tho.
>This is something GW is actively trying to discourage as people might not buy the 9th iteration of primaris lieutenant.
Are you fricking moronic? The complete lack of list customization makes it actually possible to create cool models and use them in play without having to worry about explaining what shit actually is or isn't. It sucks for the game health, but this is the most friendly they have ever been to kitbash and conversion support in the play environment
Can't you just do conversions on guard minis?
> not having a single friend who can print them for you
Right now in 10th you can run CSM list without a single space marine if you want to, quit your whining
Did they change that? I remember there being a rule that prevented you from mass cultists. Something like you had to have a certain ratio of CSM. Haven't played in a while.
If I had to guess, it's because they know that horde armies don't sell well. People generally want one highly detailed model or a handful of them to work on. People simply don't have the time, money, or patience to do a horde army. Imperial guard somewhat gets around this with tanks, but if you want to play dudes, it's expensive as hell. Tyranid value added boxes help to move some of them as a whole for the faction, but it seems like the focus is on the mid and large sized units now. Why are they going to dedicate so much shelf space to a type of army that they know doesnt sell as well as Emperor's children will when placed in that same space?
Alternatively, just learn to paint and kitbash. Like there are chaos transfer sheets, different bits from your other kits, like come on guys it's not rocket science.
it might be pure copium but if you think of the way SoB were before their new kits you may see these in years to come, and genestealer cults popping out of nowhere
also bear in mind that they have to a) make base minis for chaos undivided traitor guard/militia and then B) make upgrade packs and special units and heroes for the 4 chaos gods it's a lot to balance on top of the 15 human armies in the main game already, since if you want fully aligned traitor guard forces you are gonna need to have semi-balanced rules for them
They've already made all of those models, they're even in the CSM codex. But they're mono-pose one-offs that they've failed to expand despite having years to do it, despite it literally just being spikes on cadians.
40K doesn't need any more armies. There are already 20+ to choose from (not even counting the different marine chapters) and GW can't even balance (or manufacture) everything they already support.
Quit being a homosexual and be happy with what you've got.
There *are* too many armies *and* Chaos Cultists should have a way larger profile.
For the same reason Chorfs never got made mainline despite being by far more based than normal chaosgays.
>Enslave and torture daemons to power their lightbulbs, and also just because they like hurting things.
>Giant fricking Wizard of Oz smoke projectors to scare greenskin slaves
>Mech suits a skaven would chew his own tail off to get
>cannons powered by enslaved daemons
>worship only one Chaos god, and only because he directly gives them stuff in an exchange
>mercenary, will abandon tryhard chaos lords who are stupid, rude, or start losing
>blasphemous alliance with goblins
They already exist, look up the eye of terror book you fricking zoomer
Because they're not the Imperium. It took until 5th edition for even daemons to receive their own codex instead of just being a unit choice in the CSM codex, and that was probably largely because they could use the same models for a new WHFB army as well. Chaos Knights did also get their own book, but that's a mini-codex with a handful of units, most of which are just they loyalist Knight model with an extra spiky bits added. If GW would do a cultist army it'd mostly consist of IG units with an extra sprue with spiky bits added in the box, and at that point you could just add spikes to your Leman Russes yourself and play using the IG codex but fluff them as cultists.
>Why GW refuses to make pure chaos cultist faction?
How would you differentiate their playstyle so it isn't just a combination of Shitty IG mixed with GSC sans-genestealers?
The majority of chaos cultists in fluff are on par with something like an IG conscript.
>How would you differentiate their playstyle so it isn't just a combination of Shitty IG mixed with GSC sans-genestealers?
By giving you the option to play just that in one army:
>a combination of Shitty IG mixed with GSC sans-genestealers?
>How would you differentiate their playstyle
Why do you have too? Why cant you have multiple armies with the same playstyle?
>How would you differentiate them from Imperial Guard and Genestealer Cultists?
>...meanwhile, 10-million different flavors of Spess Mehren clogging up every aspect of 40k
It's ok if they aren't radically different from Imperial Guard. They could have variations based on whether they are Undivided, or which Chaos God they serve; they could have variations on whether they're genuine paramilitary cultists, or an actual well-organized military force (something like the Blood Pact), or if they're traitor Guardsmen/PDF forces/etc. They'd probably have good psyker support, certainly with Tzeentch followers, plus the option for mutation-based abilities. Their equipment would *typically* be worse than the IG, but not necessarily. They could also easily mix in Demons or Chaos Marines.
The important point is that they're supposed to be the most common opposition faced by Imperium forces, yet are almost totally absent on the tabletop. They're more essential than another Marine subfaction getting their own special units/characters, or the billionth variation of Primarishit.
>How would you differentiate their playstyle
Black person there's a dozen space marine armies with the exact same playstyle and they still get different codexes, shut up. Cultists with Marks and an emphasis on infantry and dark pacts would play different than IG with orders and an emphasis on officers buffing regimental units by default even before getting internal their actual profiles
Because functionally it already exists if you just want to play renegade humans.
The chaos armies armies have their own flavors it sounds like your just looking for guard with unit/ability names.
The only people who are going to be dedicated to them can just make due with what's available there isn't a large enough demand and there are already 7 chaos armies compared to 8 xenos.
great just what these games need, more factions
it baffles the mind how people constantly keep asking for more and more and more factions and then complain how their armies dont get updated because there are 1000 factions now
>great just what these games need, more factions
>it baffles the mind how...
True. All loyalist marines need to be consolidated; no more chapter-specific box sets, codexes, extensive model ranges, etc.
Custodes, Grey Knights, Imp./Chaos Knights are removed from the game (though Knight models could still see limited use as part of Imperial Guard or Chaos armies). So are the Leagues of Votann, while we're at it. AdMech are reduced to a more limited range to be used as an allied detachment, not a stand-alone army.
Chaos is re-organized into Undivided plus 1 faction for the followers of each main Chaos god.
With all that cleared up, proper attention can then be given to vastly underrepresented ranges, like cultists.
I think they tried that with Renegades and Heretics in 7th and 8th Edition and 6th Edition with the Vraks renegades, but they didn't get as popular as the Kriegers so it was dropped.
If you want to play a chaos cultist faction then just play a chaos guard proxy army.
Have a paper print out with the units and their corresponding stats to what they're proxying out and ready for yourself and your opponent to remember.
Besides Vraks traitor militia recasts and WGA's The Damned what other chaos cult proxies are there that include HWTs, command and special weapon units anyways?
There are many options in printable format
>Besides Vraks traitor militia recasts and WGA's The Damned what other chaos cult proxies are there that include HWTs, command and special weapon units anyways?
>Reptilean Overlords - Heretics
>That Evil One - Lunar Auxilia
>That Evil One - House Excess
>Adeptus Miniatures - 3 different regiments (Dark Kroks, Iron Legion, Varrox Regiment) HWTs are missing, but they are about to be released
>Red Makers - Renegade Death Division (Chaos Krieg)
>DakkaDakka - Vultures Horde
>Wargame Exclusive - Renegades of Pain
>Anvil Industries Digital - Renegades
>ZBS Miniatures - Cult Guard (also Chaos Sisters and Cultists)
>The Makers Cult - Dark Techno
>Quartermasters 3D - Harbingers of Doom
And a lot more without all options available, but still usable for kitbashing.
Chaos Cultists don't fight when there aren't Chaos Marines and Demons to back them up. They hide and fester until they are called by the dark gods.
duh motherfricker frick stop fricking posting here
Vraks renegades fought for a fair while before CSM reinforcements showed up, they don't NEED to be lead by space marines at all
What would make Chaos cultists appealing?
Would a distinct subfaction make people like them like the Krieg Death Corps do with the Imperial Guard?
>What would make Chaos cultists appealing?
The fact that you can model and paint them quite liberally, depending on your chosen god, and your chosen Legion they are supporting (if any).
A cult serving under the IW banner will look completely different to a cult serving the Word Bearers, and you even can get away with some spec ops style alpha legion infiltrator cultists if you wanted.
The worst thing GW could do, is giving Chaos Cultists a very narrow background, like they did with the Genestealer Cults (i.e. Miners).
>The worst thing GW could do, is giving Chaos Cultists a very narrow background, like they did with the Genestealer Cults (i.e. Miners).
that is the problem with Chaos Cultists/Chaos infantry
the people who like them want maximum flexibility in terms of both appearance and ruleset, but GW is currently moving in the opposite direction for all factions
>but GW is currently moving in the opposite direction for all factions
True.
However, they could easily expand the "Blooded" Kill team into a faction by giving them some more units in the same style of those troopers. They are generic enough.
>play any Chaos faction
>use cultist minis
duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh??!?