>combat mechanics to juggle in ARPGs before Dark Souls 1, like KH, Tales, and Dark Cloud
>actual spacing since you're not always guaranteed an easy escape from any attack
>team composition
>aggro management depending on your character/class
>enemy juggling not only to look cool, but to also single out enemies and escape being jumped
>degrading hitstun/revenge values that prevent the games from actually being button mashers unless you work around them
>combat mechanics to juggle in Soulslikes
>when to roll/block
>watching where you're standing so you don't fall off, or checking corners so you don't get jumped, since apparently annoying enemy placement is fine when FromSoft does it
>the odd broken status effect like Bleed that decimates health bars in either direction
>hyper armor that replenishes 10 seconds after being broken
>token system from a prior action game that the playerbase props up as groundbreaking game design, like timed blocking, combo paths, and actually having a skill/arte palette for the player.
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Elden Ring and Souls games are better than any clownshow juggle shit though
How so?
>all bleak worlds where 95% of the general population tries to kill you
>no comfy towns
>learn about boss's tragic past 10 hours after you killed them on YouTube or on a not somewhere, instead of witnessing their downfall firsthand
>no permanent party members to share the adventure with
There is a lot most games in the genre can learn from these types of games, but they also lose a lot.
>Except they have none of that.
You sure?
>Combos
Bloodborne.
>and timed blocking
Sekiro.
>are inferior game design that would destract from the heavily hitbox centered back and forth gameplay
Fighting games have all three.
>>all bleak worlds where 95% of the general population tries to kill you
>>no comfy towns
about boss's tragic past 10 hours after you killed them on YouTube or on a not somewhere, instead of witnessing their downfall firsthand
>>no permanent party members to share the adventure with
Good, no gay shit
>Bloodborne.
>>and timed blocking
>Sekiro.
Not Souls games
>Fighting games have all three.
AH YES, playing footsies for 30 seconds in fear of getting countered, with a character that has a stick up the ass, great gameplay
>>all bleak worlds where 95% of the general population tries to kill you
>>no comfy towns
about boss's tragic past 10 hours after you killed them on YouTube or on a not somewhere, instead of witnessing their downfall firsthand
>>no permanent party members to share the adventure with
DS2 was going to be the antithesis to that... What could have been.
Every game genre was locked in about 25 years ago and all they do is push graphical presentation as some great innovation.
>when to roll/block
Also where to, and attack commitment and its relative stagger management
>watching where you're standing so you don't fall off, or checking corners so you don't get jumped, since apparently annoying enemy placement is fine when FromSoft does it
Oh no, you are to be aware of your surroundings
>the odd broken status effect like Bleed that decimates health bars in either direction
Jrpig talking about balance, sad!
>hyper armor that replenishes 10 seconds after being broken
Good, you are forced to actually capitalize and pressure
>token system from a prior action game that the playerbase props up as groundbreaking game design, like timed blocking, combo paths, and actually having a skill/arte palette for the player.
Except they have none of that. Combos and timed blocking are inferior game design that would destract from the heavily hitbox centered back and forth gameplay
>Good, you are forced to actually capitalize and pressure
At the cost of ruining any semblance of hit feedback.
>Guard Counter
Yet another "get out of jail free" card, but only requires patience and enough stamina, rather than learning attack timings.
>>Good, you are forced to actually capitalize and pressure
>At the cost of ruining any semblance of hit feedback.
YEAH I'm sure JRPIGshit #28462837 has better hitfeedback
Counter
>Yet another "get out of jail free" card, but only requires patience and enough stamina, rather than learning attack timings.
It's clear you never learned to use it, because it requires prediction depending on your own weapon and how fast the enemy could attack again to ponder wheter or not it is good to use it
>attack skills functioning as evasion options
Tales did that a while ago.
>YEAH I'm sure JRPIGshit #28462837 has better hitfeedback
At least the ones that didn't add a garbage stagger meter like Arise or FF16.
skills functioning as evasion options
>Tales did that a while ago.
They should have made a good game instead of juggleshit
>evade dangerous spell by simply walking out of range
>counter normal, then punish
You can do exactly what you did in that video in there, as well.
>posting the worse example of a JRPG taking notes from FromSoft
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Please, everyone knows Diablo is known more for it's loot systems than actual core gameplay.
>Akthually that other JRPIGshit is deep
>Dodges for 10 minutes just to set up the infinite juggle combo
Riveting gameplay
>dodges for 10 minutes while poking the boss after a swing just to set up a finisher that depends on the weapon type, not the enemy hit with it
Riveting gameplay.
I just feel like so much is lost with that subgenre, while it's fanbase discredits everything else that came before it or anything that comes after that dares to not follow in it's footsteps. It's as if the game doesn't play like a Souls game, it'd be better off turn-based.
>My meme genre doesn't get attention and is dead boo hoo
Maybe it wasn't that good
Why are you just showing PvP?
I posted PVE
My bad, forgot about the one showcasing Giant Hunt.
>popularity = quality argument
None of these webms are impressive.
The only thing you posted is a player dodging a boss for 10 minutes just to execute a strat stunlocking it. It's the polar opposite of Souls games and surely not a great example of depth and gameplay agency
>combo that takes 30% of boss's health [15-30 hits] = bad
>combo that takes 30% of boss's health [4 hits] = good
that takes 30% of boss's health [4 hits]
>>Is actually the result of applying pressure and fighting the enemy without it losing agency
>>It's effectiveness varies depending on correct usage of different offensive and defensive options that involve accounting for the enemy options during the execution
>Real ARPG where you gear of choice affects how the enemy reacts to your hits just as much as how you react to his hits
>Every enemy has unique moveset though attack patterns you will constantly deal with, which in turn makes every player adapt their varied option to said moveset, making for fresh and highly replayable gameplay that can't be optimized. Basically, you aren't juggling a punching bag with an hidden timer to restore its superarmor
that takes 30% of boss's health [4 hits]
>>>It's effectiveness varies depending on correct usage of different offensive and defensive options that involve accounting for the enemy options during the execution
Same thing in those games. Different arts/skills react differently to different enemies, usually.
>>Real ARPG where you gear of choice affects how the enemy reacts to your hits just as much as how you react to his hits
enemy has unique moveset though attack patterns you will constantly deal with, which in turn makes every player adapt their varied option to said moveset,
That's the bare minimum for an ARPG.
>making for fresh and highly replayable gameplay that can't be optimized.
Bleed build go brrrr.
>Basically, you aren't juggling a punching bag with an hidden timer to restore its superarmor
Yeah, you're knocking them over, then rushing to stab them in the chest before it does.
, you aren't juggling a punching bag with an hidden timer to restore its superarmor
>Yeah, you're knocking them over, then rushing to stab them in the chest before it does.
SO if you think that's bad why are you justifying a core gameplay where most of the extent of player agency and combat mechanic ties too a really prplonged execution.
Because critical attacks in Souls games are merely a reward for your proficient gameplay or parrying skills
>Juggling a boss for 10 minutes bad
>Player reqarded execution for finding openings through enemy attack patterns and being efficient good
Yes
And you you've posted shitty webms of slow walking around the most telegraphed moves in existence and hitting the enemy once or twice.
>Your gameplay bad
>Combining Donald Duck and anime incel attacks good
Consider the following
JRPGs aren't real RPGs nor real action games
>Souls loyalist is CRPG fan
And the mask finally slips. how would you improve turn-based or action JRPGs without just making ER or BG3 with anime graphics?
>how would you improve turn-based or action JRPGs without just making ER or BG3 with anime graphics
I'm not a fan of either unless you mean Pathfinder or D&D editions into vidya format by "turn based" so I don't really know if I would "fix" them or they simply aren't for me.
I played several Action JRPG and was almost always let down by how they are consistently DMC-lites with very tacked on RPG mechanics that give "some" variety but that mostly consist of basic status procs, elemental counters and action move selection. The best example is the most recent one, FF16. It has great animation and really good feedback with enjoyable combat despite the fact that I'm usually not a fan of games with large stagger windows that task the player with maximizing damage against a downed enemy, but with FF16 you could fill that stagger bar quickly by being efficient and unrelenting in a way that combat feels dynamic and reactive.
Too bad the game is plagued by dogshit and shallow RPG progression consisting of every enemy being a gear check that feels completely unnecessary considering it's a fake progression tacked on what is essentially acquisition of skills instead. Your new weapon is the next step in a linear progression with no differences (because your moveset is streamlined) and no meaningful upgrade system
Same for Scarlet Nexus or Tales, or even Dragon's Dogma (which is basically a JRPG down to autoleveling) and you end up just picking the lastest competitive weapon with maybe a side effect unlocked through upgrading alongside the stat boost but the gameplay is dictated by a bunch of no-brainer skills per vocation. They are not RPGs in the slightest
I don't really play 4 homies in a row and never cared for it so I don't have a say on that.
What am I looking at? Did they giga buff shields after DS3? Haven't played ER
"barricade shield" is a skill you can equip that when used massively buffs your ability to defend. it functions basically as a weapon art/spell. so temporary.
Shields can now equip ashes of war as replacement for the niche infusion system Souls games had for them before. This includes skills like a version of the Silver Pendant, shield attacks or in this version a timed buff of 5 seconds that reduces the stamina cost of blocking and increases stability
It's not like Souls' RPG mechanics are anything to write home about either. There's no real build making to speak of aside from getting minimum stats for your weapon of choice, raise HP to softcap, raise damage stat to softcap, done.
>It's not like Souls' RPG mechanics are anything to write home about either. There's no real build making to speak of aside from getting minimum stats for your weapon of choice, raise HP to softcap, raise damage stat to softcap, done.
Depending on your weapon and build of choice you can set for any RL and location for multiplayer, which changes depending on a lot of stuff.
Any weapon can have requirements but different favourite stats for scaling. You can customize weapons around your stats spread and gain new effects or ailments.
There's several tiers of spells with different roles and type of scaling to complement each build, including spells not even scaling to complements weapons with little elemental requirements. There's choice between buff, infusion, spell buff depending on your stats and certain tradeoffs. There's even weapons that can be build towards their weapon skill or physical moveset depending on your stats, or a mix of both. You can 2 hand weapons to get around the strength restriction and change moveset, and wield any piece on gear for each hand.
Clothing has always tradeoffs in the form of weight relative to different damage type protection valies or even buffs and debuffs. You can make an health regen build, a glass cannon build with no health, stack various weapon and shield passive effects and create and use consumables that can induce special effects or exploit weaknesses. It is probably one of the most expansive RPG systems for hor versatile and robust it is
And realistically almost none of this matters because these effects are always so undertuned because From is scared of letting players break their game. You have a bunch of choices and none of them matter because the most boring and basic way to play will probably also be the strongest.
>And realistically almost none of this matters because these effects are always so undertuned
Wrong
you did not beat the game
It is cool as frick though
Fair enough. Unrelated but do you like any of the Ys games, anon? They are very different from any of the games mentioned. But am trying to get a better sense of what you like/your taste.
dangerous spell by simply walking out of range
Neither KH nor Tales use positioning to the extent Souls games do.
Earlier Tales game have combos that only work when positioning a certain way not to mention the game exclusives gimmicks like Field of Fonons or Free Run cancel.
simplicity is evolution rather than regression
i will not elaborate. you either get it or you don't, and if you don't only time will convince you
They focus too much on either the Action part with half-baked RPG mechanics, or too much on the RPG part with half-baked action mechanics
Squeenix is one of the few companies that consistently gets it more right than wrong, becuase they blend the two aspects together and make them work in conjunction, instead of making you think "man, I wish I was just playing a straight up action or RPG game instead"
>Squeenix is one of the few companies that consistently gets it more right than wrong, becuase they blend the two aspects together and make them work in conjunction, instead of making you think "man, I wish I was just playing a straight up action or RPG game instead"
Hello? FF15 and 16 called, it's for you. Shame too, with how fun SO6, 7R, ToM, and SoP are.
Juggling enemies is moronic clown shit, I hate it.
>arpgs
>lists japslop
Embarrassing
While all "ARPGs" these games are all so different I don't even know why they're being compared. When I sit down to play them I want very different things. I understand not liking Souls games and being disappointed that there are so many of those types of games now but that's not what's stopping more Dark Cloud games. KH is also definitely not going to become a Soulslike when 4 releases.
Also lamenting that seemingly any indie inspired by the games I mentioned would likely be sent out to die, given by how rare spiritual successors to them are.
Cool
Actually scary
>positioning in game I like
>cool and deep mechanic to engage with 🙂
>positioning in game I don't like
>stupid and tired thing that only exists because game is bad 🙁
Could a Soulslike work with more elements from other styles of RPGs, like:
>an overworld map
>more directly-told story that still has plenty of lore to read through
>an actual party of multiple playable character you meet on your journey
>towns and settlements of friendly inhabitants
while still keeping the methodical combat, great level design, and atmosphere people like about these games?
Yeah, Souls is but a set of rules for your movement system and combat interactions, which many games also took creative liberties with.
The problem is the scope of the game requiring massive investment in animations and enemy/moveset to create a large enemy variety that is really responsive to work in a combat system where you are constantly trading blows with various kinds of weapons. Add to that the resources to make a fully fledged narrative-led RPG and it becomes a huge project