I play FFXIV, but I think WoW likely has more active players. Sadly we'll never know since SE and Blizzard are fricking cowards and won't release player numbers.
>I play FFXIV, but I think WoW likely has more active players.
Before SL? Yes. Today? No.
There is no way Wow still has more players after Blizzard has shut down the Chinese servers.
>release diablo immortal >china no longer wishes to do business with you
maybe in a decade the loss of their biggest market will bite them in the ass over them convincing billionaires to spend millions of dollars shitting on people in a phone game
Blizzard actively antagonized their Chinese partner with stingy contracts, to the point where Netease celebrated separating from Blizzard by destroying a statue of Thrall over livestream
Yeah I know what I was getting at is that I'm not surprised at all Blizzard got fricked and if they were assuming they'd be getting China money forever they'd be super naive.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah they way overplayed their hand, Bobby gets credit for being a business mastermind but that was a catastrophically bad business move. It also blew up a title they'd been working on for 3 years https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/3/23290523/blizzard-world-of-warcraft-mobile-canceled-netease
Is that a joke? No one play xiv now. That game was hyped on sl release but now even streamers don't stream that shit. It's literally not even a multiplayer game just some stupid vn with crappy mmo style gameplay.
>I think WoW likely has more active players.
I strongly suspect WoW has fewer players right now than people realize, all metrics are showing a steep decline since DF
I assumed as much when Blizzard actually started trying to be "more open with the community" for WoW in the past year. Something had to have happened to start that
well I'm guessing it didn't work since DF is yet another expansion abandoned after X.2
7 months ago
Anonymous
i get the feeling every expansion from here on out is going to end at x.2 just to get more money out of players and just pump out more individual $59.99 expacs
7 months ago
Anonymous
Nope and that's what makes it so funny you gave people three days of game time and the expansion for it and to try your newest class race combo and that didn't get them back at this point it could go free to play and probably wouldn't get enough people playing.
They actually got rid of the outdated requirements to make an allied race character? Nice. That's a welcome change. The requirements should have been lifted at the start of SL when those BfA tasks were no longer current content, but better late than never.
This combined with all the emails I got trying to give me free time tells me that DF wasn't really the recovery they'd hoped for. I don't remember that for any previous expansions, even ones that were considered pretty dire. Now i hear it's gonna be yet another expansion dropped after just two patches. It's so unbelievably over.
The only world first guilds that have quit are Paragon, which quit pre Legion because they didn't want to recruit non-Fins and finding exclusively fins who are pro level and willing to raid 16 hours a day was too hard, and Exorsus who quit back in Legion
Since nighthold it's all been Limit and Method, who just rebranded to Liquid and Echo and are still raiding
So where is this en masse quitting?
Echo spent months progging The Omega Protocol. They literally spent more time progging through FFXIV than they did doing their WFR clears in WoW lmao
7 months ago
Anonymous
What kind of moronic goal post move is this
First it was they're quitting now it's they're casually progging another game?
I think one of the top10 guilds quit during SL, pieces or something
But it's not like we are getting new amazing guilds that are going to compete with echo or liquid
Pieces only got a world first when the other guilds weren't playing
7 months ago
Anonymous
>echo >only 2 main raiders from wow >boomer banched raid leader >literally casual friends
BUT ECHO
I think one of the top10 guilds quit during SL, pieces or something
But it's not like we are getting new amazing guilds that are going to compete with echo or liquid
Yeah. There's no reason to ever step foot in Mythic Raid because you can get fully geared in the first week in M+, and that was before the DF crafting system came in and you could custom-make pieces that were better than that using more materials from the dungeons.
Meanwhile, here's the parses for the FFXIV's latest raid, for comparison.
While these also include reclears, you have to include that only a tiny minority of the playerbase parses, making the actual amount of clears higher than what is shown.
FF troons are truly the mosty conniving sleazy schizos.
Heroic Difficulty has more parse #s and more players than mythic (because they can't do mythic)
the point is, you're disingenously cherry picking high raiding demographic and ignoring the biggest amount of the playerbase which does up to heroic. because you're a shameless yoshihomosexual dicksucker Black person that can't the thought your game is not as popular as WoW/WoW classic.
What makes it trickier is that if even one parser uploads the log to the website, every player will have their parse added, regardless if they have the addon - which makes the data slightly more reliable than if it didn't.
There is also a massive discrepancy between the start of the raid and the end-boss of the raid. Pallas Athena has, if taking the data from the site at face value, 'only' been cleared around 3k-4k times, but that is more due to how brutally difficult and time consuming endbosses tend to be rather than a playerbase problem.
that's cute.
now do the heroic difficulty parses.
FFXIV Savage is the equivalent of Mythic raids, I am comparing them because they are the most equivalent.
most of the playerbase doesn't do Mythic.
it's deliberately obtuse of you to use mythic as the example, when most of the numbers are on the lesser difficulty.
You also conveniently left out WOTLK classic, which is more popular than Retail.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Wrath is more popular than retail
In what world lmao
Wrath only has like 400k characters logged
7 months ago
Anonymous
>sources: trust me bro
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ironforge pro tracks classic characters
7 months ago
Anonymous
You're assuming everyone playing Wrath is raiding, dungeons have multiple difficulty modes now and drop raid loot, same as retail
7 months ago
Anonymous
>make false statement that wotlk has more players (with zero proof) >somebody provides you with evidence to the contrary >you start coping
this is so tiring, you're desperate for wow to die because you're desperate to be "right" but that's just never gonna happen.
I mean we've known this since castle nathria blew up as the most played raid of all time. The classic experiment failed.
blizzard were right, people thought they wanted it but they didn't, classic is for watching on streams, not playing
7 months ago
Anonymous
You're talking to two different people m8. Levelling zones are highly populated at the moment in Wrath and those players are all not raiding. Clearly 400k actively raiding and parsing does not cover all the actual players playing
7 months ago
Anonymous
only raiders matter
those levelers are not real players
7 months ago
Anonymous
outrageously dumb opinion, half the people that ever played vanilla only levelled. Endgame has always been and will always be for spergs
7 months ago
Anonymous
>2004 shitters
who cares
raids are the only real thing in wow
leveling is just a nuisance
>Savage is the equivalent of mythic.
Lol. Lmao even. Fftroons actually believe this. No troony, savage is equal to heroic. Ultimates are equal to mythic.
Posts like this remind me how utterly incapable of basic math most anons are.
FF troons are truly the mosty conniving sleazy schizos.
Heroic Difficulty has more parse #s and more players than mythic (because they can't do mythic)
the point is, you're disingenously cherry picking high raiding demographic and ignoring the biggest amount of the playerbase which does up to heroic. because you're a shameless yoshihomosexual dicksucker Black person that can't the thought your game is not as popular as WoW/WoW classic.
Tiny is almost an understatement. The majority don't even know what the word means, then a super minority are on an autismo crusade against it.
there are way more wow heroic parses.....sorry, xiv troons
>Does XIV have any variety in how their classes play? I just realized it isn't split into specs like wow is.....
In FFXIV you can play every class, but each class is one spec.
There's no specs or talents. You pick a job and it pretty much plays the same across players with some minor variations (speed vs crit builds, different openers to account for latency/skill).
But the upside is that you just play all of these on one character with shared story/quest progression so you can always just jump around to something else with very little friction.
Ff14 also adds more classes then, wow adds one new class every other or third expansion or so, while FF14 shits out two new classes each expansion
7 months ago
Anonymous
I think that the next expasion is going to have 2 new classes, 1 limited class (for specific type of content) and 2 classes will be reworked. So they are going to have 5 new classes to play.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I wouldn't count a rework as a new class, everything else checks out.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>and 2 classes will be reworked
their reworks aren't usually that substantial. I think maybe AST has potential to change a lot. DRG will probably be very similar to how it is right now
7 months ago
Anonymous
The last rework, for SMN, pretty much made it a new class.
7 months ago
Anonymous
yeah, but there's also MNK and PLD which didn't change all that much all things considered
Also, SMN is like half a job at the moment. It's like the base of a new job instead of a fully-fledged one
>XIVgays spend all thread shitposting with cherry picked stats to make their game look better >real stats come out >WELL YOU CaNT REALLY COMPARE THE TWO
troony cope
>Savage raiding and yet it still has more clears than WoW
No they don't.
And it's 8 players vs 20 players, 1 tier of wow has more clears than 1 xiv expansion, it's not even a competition.
No one want to play your visual novel.
WoW has four tiers of raiding: LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic vs XIV having just two so WoW playerbase is being split far thinner across way more difficulty tiers its not comparable especially when mass majority of the playerbase never goes beyond Normal and Heroic.
Okay, but that's WoW's problem. FFXIV has only normal/LFR (and to be honest, a lot of FFXIV normal raids are harder than WoW LFRs) and Savage (Mythic).
All the players that would only clear Normal and Heroic grade would not make it through Savage, so the comparison is still apt.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Savage (Mythic).
HOLY moronATION
7 months ago
Anonymous
Next you're gonna tell me Ultimates are the equivalent of Mythics BWAHAHAHAHA
7 months ago
Anonymous
No WoW mythic raids aren't easy enough to clear without a healer
The same can't be said of ultimates
7 months ago
Anonymous
Okay, go do it then.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I don't play japshit because I'm heterosexual
7 months ago
Anonymous
So you're a pussy that can't even clear a gay easy raid for homosexuals.
Sad!
7 months ago
Anonymous
>lol you can't even suck wieners like a sissy homo
Not falling for your groomer mind games
7 months ago
Anonymous
Echo took 5 months to suck Omega's wiener clean. Hah!
based brownskin brain. Mythic is for a niche playerbase, but that niche presumably stays pretty constant. If, for example Arena numbers showed a raise then drop then raise etc, wouldn't that information be indicative of something?
The point of comparative numbers isn't to see absolute numbers, it's to see trends. Judging by just these numbers, you could see that one piece of content is down significantly, to around 1/3 of what it once was. If one metric is down you can infer other metrics align, unless there is some good evidence that one population has been placated elsewhere.
I wonder what changed, it's like you can get mythic gear by just crafting and doing m+ now.
Also I love it, moronic ex wow players that have no clue about the game using numbers they don't understand.
A lot of guilds in 10.0 were cross-faction and didnt count as guild kills.
>A lot of guilds in 10.0 were cross-faction and didnt count as guild kills. >nooo the numbers aren't true!!
The trend was already obvious in Shadowlands, DF linearly continues the same downwards trend. The only playerbase that copes harder than retail WoW players is Destiny 2 players, and both are as hopelessly addicted and mazed as each other
WoW mythic raids are 20 man vs. FFXIV's 8 so there will naturally be less logs.
Also for some moronic reason Blizzard wants every class to have a unique buff so you are forced into recruiting specifically those classes. In FFXIV you can deal with not having a specific 90/120sec CD buff but in WoW mythic is balanced around having those classes in your raid. A lot easier to recruit 1 (magic DPS) and 1 (shield healer) than it is recruiting specifically a warlock (else no gate for encounter that needs them) or an enhancement shaman (less melee dps in a dps race fight).
WoW raids have also become stupid hard now, and some mechanics 100% require addons to do. NO ONE does M-Echo's hearts without the Liquid weakaura and attempting to do so without it is humanly impossible the way the boss is balanced.
I unironically believe Blizzard needs to 1) prune a lot of shit, and 2) get rid of addons but also make raids actually fricking doable with less visual noise.
I don't remember anything from the levelling experience, the story was absolute nonsense, and not fun nonsense like WOD, just below fanfiction level stupidity. It's easily the worst one they've ever done. When current players say 'the game is the best it has ever been' I assume they must have played a different game
>When current players say 'the game is the best it has ever been'
I'm not a psychologist so who knows, but i always assumed a lot of that was sunken cost fallacy. The same types of people who have like 30k posts on bnet and/or mmo-champ and for them the game is a huge huge part of their life.
there was a very short period where it did, shortly around the wow exodus and a lot of wow streamers going to ff14 for a little bit
don't think it was too long though
That was a lie. Gaming journalists lied to get clicks because of the Activision lawsuit happening. FfXIV never overtook WOW and the exodus never happened. WOW has always been on top, XIV shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath.
>the exodus never happened
Shadowlands 9.1 unironically killed the game, I wish I could see the internal sub graphs around that patch time because it would be a vertical cliff of unsubscribes
there was a very short period where it did, shortly around the wow exodus and a lot of wow streamers going to ff14 for a little bit
don't think it was too long though
It's actually nuts how fricking easy it would be to kill wow. Twice now XIV has had the entire internet on its side and instead of doubling down and hiring more, yoshi p cries on cam and fans applaud and everyone else leaves again cause they realize it's a cult circlejerk of trannies and israelites
The gameplay sucks, simple as. 2.5s GCD will never be good, doesn't matter how much goodwill they have on side. I know, I know 'it gets better after 200hrs', but 99% of people are not going to bother with that
>entire internet on its side
You are an delusional XIV troony. The other poster is correct, your favorite game has never been the #1 and will never be #1.
At some point WoW took a look at XIV and must have said >What do they have that we don't? >oh, it must be the story!
Then they wrote a soulless story that shuts all over established lore when nobody, not one person for the first two expansions especially played for any story.
>The WoW story has sucked since Wrath
Funny, I thought it started sucking at tbc but then someone will probably reply to me and say that vanilla sucked then that guy will get a reply telling him that the story was always bad. I guess what is consistent is that it's been a downward spiral ever since.
>Wrath was an improvement >arthas arrives, tells you how he get you next time, then leaves through portal
you are fricking moron >, and everything after
lol, lmao
fricking wotlk kids
Not sure about recent expansions, but until at least wod blizzard never hit another low with story like wotlk was
it's always pretty obvious when people praise wotlk's story that they started in wrath and are talking purely nostalgia
northrend was great but its core story was milquetoast nonsense
7 months ago
Anonymous
There's good story beats like Wrathgate that they haven't been able to equal since WOD. The storytelling went significantly downhill after that, and started burrowing through bedrock to depths of mediocrity previously thought impossible in the SL and DF era
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Oh my god it's The Lich King™ and he's monologuing at us okay there he goes bye The Lich King™! >Holy frick it's The Lich King™ with another monologue holy frick we're really raising the stakes now!
Repeat until ICC where he monologues again but this time we fart on him and he dies.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Oh my god it's The Lich King™ and he's monologuing at us okay there he goes bye The Lich King™! >Holy frick it's The Lich King™ with another monologue holy frick we're really raising the stakes now!
Repeat until ICC where he monologues again but this time we fart on him and he dies.
It's even better when you remember that deathwing presentation was literally blizzard saying sorry for how they treated arthas in wotlk. And even wotlk kids agreed that he was handled better
>then someone will probably reply to me and say that vanilla sucked
vanilla definitely had some lore and story issues, but they weren't as bad as the issues in TBC and later expansions
in any case, trying to defend the dogshit stories, lore rape, and character rape in SL and DF by saying the early content also had problems is pretty silly.
Vanilla was good simply by the fact that everyone was new and having fun and nobody was trying to autistically minmax and gatekeep everything yet. Classic HC has a similar vibe as Vanilla
>Funny, I thought it started sucking at tbc
wow story was always garbo
i dont even know why they tried to write books trying to explain the story
biggest mistake they ever did
like just read medivh' story, shit is the most moronic piece of fantsy media ever written
The issue with Warcraft as a whole is none of the writers give a shit about consistency. Metzen never cared for the details and would just change them to accommodate whatever hare-brained idea he had that week. The issue is there can't be any stakes where important details and events can just cease to exist or be radically altered at a moment's notice. >WOW GUYS WE KILLED ILLIDAN THIS A MONUMENTAL EVENT IN THE LORE >jk he's back now and you were wrong all along >WOW GUYS DEATHWING DIED >jk he was actually just asleep >WOW GUYS LOOK AT THE DEFINITIVE COSMOLOGY OF WARCRAFT >jk that was in-universe speculation, here's the real cosmology which we totally won't alter later when it suits us
Pic related, it's me for even writing about this or caring when even Warcraft's own writers don't give a shit.
Funny how you didn't mentioned arthas literally being erased and his body going under nerzhul control at the end of tft
It's like there some homosexual agenda you wanted to push with your post or something...
>Funny how you didn't mentioned arthas literally being erased and his body going under nerzhul control at the end of tft
Yeah, that was fricking moronic too and I hate everything Christie Golden has ever written.
>here's the real cosmology which we totally won't alter later when it suits us
it's actually the same chart, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhsDlrL0a3c
inb4 >taliesin
Imagine watching fricking Taliesin, I don't care that you already called it out, that guy doesn't even pretend to be anything other than a miserable self-loathing tapdancing carnival barker for Blizzard
7 months ago
Anonymous
no worse than watching people who will do nothing but shit on the game for views. I just click off when I detect bullshit
Daily reminder that blizzard replaced all his voice lines and hasn't brought them back even after he was found not guilty and the judge called his accuser a schizo stalker 🙂
"Story" is absolutely and profoundly incompatible with MMO design. The attempt to include "story" in MMOs deeply and fundamentally poisons the play experience.
And FF14 is an excruciating example of this. Playing through hyper-anime weeaboo baby story for literally dozens of hours before you can even use the fricking auction house is beyond enraging. I should never have taken another look at that schlock after the horrors of the beta.
Will never... EVER give Activision / Blizzard or Squeenix any money ever again. Ever. Fricking ever.
I'm livid just remembering.
I started playing FF14 during stormblood and had a lot of fun with it. Got like 1000 hours on it and then accidentally uninstalled my phone token thing you use as 2 factor authentication so I basically got locked out of my account.
Currently I'm playing wow classic and I'm having a lot of fun with it I'm level 27
ff wanted the wow streamer audience then banned anyone who walked in front or or disagreed with the wow streamers who only played for as long as their contracts dictated anyway
I doubt money changed hands, Asmongold has played almost every mmo on stream, streamers simply got bored with the fact that XIV is a glorified VN/chatroom with floaty weird combat
Is being a one game streamer even profitable anymore? It's not like all of the wow streamers went back at doing WoW content, since it's been getting less and less views. Most of then changed into variety streamers.
The problem with Streamers, people get very blinkered thinking they represent populations of games. Take Wayfinder and NewWorld, two games Asmongold has been shilling relentlessly yet the population for Wayfinder is at the time of this post 300 people on Steam and 28k for New World, which is ok I guess but for a fairly new mmo after just launching a brand new expansion, it's nothing.
People very much overestimate the importance of Streamers.
luckybancho and they boost the numbers, so it's more like 2 million subs over a 4 months period
xiv is really not that big and will never be as big as peak wow
game just came too late with too much competition
even WoW is an absolute tiny fraction of its peak at this point. that game in Wrath was a cultural phenomenon and it'll never happen again for an MMORPG. A lot of hardcore WoW fans don't realize that losing more than 10 million players isn't the W they're hoping for.
>xiv is really not that big and will never be as big as peak wow
Nothing will ever be that big again, not even WoW. it was a perfect storm.
Let's be honest with ourselves, the entire genre is a shadow of what it used to be. It's a shame with WoW since it was a cultural phenomena, but like with all things, it's eventually run into the ground.
>even WoW is an absolute tiny fraction
True, now we have fortnite and minecraft.
Mmos waste too much of your time and let's be honest a lot of the content is pretty boring.
Game like genshit and other f2p mobile trash are the future.
>Game like genshit and other f2p mobile trash are the future.
This is most certainly the case for a while, unless something drastically changes.
MMO's are a massive investment of time and resources, and given the track records of most of them, it makes sense why companies go for the lower hanging fruit.
If it wasn't a grindfest that made me want to blow my brains out, I'd play BDO.
Let's be honest with ourselves, the entire genre is a shadow of what it used to be. It's a shame with WoW since it was a cultural phenomena, but like with all things, it's eventually run into the ground.
>as peak as WoW
If you mean subscription MMOs, sure. That will never happen again. But a shit ton of other MMO or MMOlites have went far above WOW’s 13 million sub count. Not to mention also out doing WOW’s lifetime revenue. Yes, most are Asian crap but that’s how it is.
>But a shit ton of other MMO or MMOlites have went far above WOW’s 13 million sub count.
Such as? The only one that might have had more monthly players than WoW is Dungeon Fighter Online due to its popularity in China, but it's not really an mmo.
I don't even think it's WoW players. It's the same handful of schizos who shit up any MMO thread. Most WoW players I know are pretty reasonable people who don't really buy into the petty rivalry shit with other games these days.
FFXIV is really the new 'raiders game'. WoW no longer has the best MMO Raid content. Dragonsong Reprise and The Omega Protocol shit on any raid WoW has ever released.
FF14's raid content is insulting. Reciting a checklist of spots to stand while doing rote memory ability rotations. I respect nobody who considers that shit good design it's 100% antithetical to RPG gameplay. It's at most a deathtrap puzzle room with instant kill if you step on the wrong preplanned floor tile for 5 - 10 minutes. This makes no mention of the difficulty it's insulting design at a genre level regardless of how tight the choreography check is. Yoshi is a fricking fraud.
True brother true, now let's raid in WoW but have you got all your weak aura's installed? You got the right plugin's, call timers, positional information, your dps meters, you got the right tools for this raid? No? Ok you're OUT!
You just described FFXIV in 2023. Got your sims? Your ACT? Your ultrawide? Your cheeses (plugin-assisted)? Mare code so we can goon afterwards? No? YERROUT!
I'm sure you have vast experience to back this up. Perhaps some clears we can peruse? The only WoW opinion I've really heard on FF14's raids and ultimates were from Echo, pretty much the top raiding guild in WoW so it seems you disagree.
I'm sure you have vast experience to back this up. Perhaps some clears we can peruse? The only WoW opinion I've really heard on FF14's raids and ultimates were from Echo, pretty much the top raiding guild in WoW so it seems you disagree.
Because FF14 captures the casual audience. And they successfully hoodwinked the hardcore players into thinking they were playing a much deeper/challenging game.
>And they successfully hoodwinked the hardcore players into thinking they were playing a much deeper/challenging game.
that's the biggest cope i've seen all day. you really just can't come to grips with ff being good or people liking it.
i've always played wow, but lately the community has just ruined the game. everyone is just so toxic and elitist. when you think about people acting that way over the few shitty looking armor sets wow has or whatever it's pathetic
It will be very sad to see the raid numbers on 10.2 in WoW Be 50% lower than the previous tier, which was already the lowest it has ever been. I suspect no more than 500 in the world will clear mythic this final tier. Game is actually finally dead. Nothing said at Blizzcon can fix this game.
Good riddance, it hasn't been good for years now and the copium levels from active players are getting genuinely insufferable. I've never seen so many people trying to rationalize such a poor quality game as actually good
Most of what once made wow so strong (muh manly war fantasy game, being the only huge mmo around) is gone now, and ff has taken over with things wowgays never expected (story people give a frick about, fappable npcs, fappable characters). FF also has cross appeal as an erp sim like vrchat, so now the game is packed with those cumbrains who are also very powerful whales. Both games and mmos in general are moving away from the old rpg meta, one turning into a mobile game+, the other an edating club.
WoW lost the Chinese market while FF14 has continued to grow in popularity in China while growing in the EU and NA at a healthy rate.
FF14 is also huge in Korea and has a massive population in Japan as it's the biggest mmo there.
WoW is seen as a declining brand it's best years are behind it, whereas FF14 is only rising with the upcoming Dawntrail.
If you want to take one anecdote for example, (it's not the only proof ff14 is growing where WoW is declining)
FF14 fanfest tickets sold out on the same day, 15k tickets for Las Vegas, 6k tickets for London, 30k tickets for Tokyo meanwhile Blizzcon tickets were still on sale months after they were open to the public. There is also an event in december in Tokyo stadium 55k sold out celebrating the ten year anniversary, concert and fireworks.
FF14 is huge in China with as many players as the Japanese part of the game which is the largest for ff14 whereas WoW no longer exists in China, the Korean version of FF14 is also huge whereas Koreans WoW was never the big game in Korea it was SC2 and we know the story there.
China and Korea are handled by entirely different publishers and play entirely segregated servers. They're also usually one patch behind the rest of the world (so they just got 6.4).
A lot of Chinese players leap through hoops to play on JP or NA though because apparently the Chinese XIV community is cancer.
the chinese anything community is cancer
Nothing has made me more racist than having to play with chinese people. Whether it's wow, ffxiv, dota or god forbid wc3, they're rodents. Literal pests who should be confined to their regional servers.
Better yet, they shouldn't have access to the internet at all.
>A lot of Chinese players leap through hoops to play on JP or NA though because apparently the Chinese XIV community is cancer.
they do and apparently, they have to set up their own separated communities because japs don't like chink and will blacklist them from everything as soon as they find out a player is chinese
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, a lot of them have wandered into NA as a result. They're usually okay but I've encountered a few insane ones.
>WoW is seen as a declining brand it's best years are behind it
That's accurate. XIV never went down the p2w path, but WoW normalized it and it's corrosive to the fabric of the game
FFXIV is easier and safer to play. More weeb stuff and this is a weeb's generation. Just look at all the cars with weeb stickers. Nobody hidin they power level no more.
WoW performance has dropped significantly since DF, the braindead interns in charge of the engine since all the veterans quit have fricked it up pretty badly. People are upgrading to 7800X3D just to maintain a steady framerate in the main city Valdrakken. The toaster PC audience of the game used to be the lifeblood but they can't play any longer. It's the quiet cause of a lot of people quitting
While I won't say you are wrong, I'll defend ff14 by saying that this is the X.5 patch which tends to have significantly lower player retention. It's unfair to compare it to the launch of their most anticipated expansion.
While I doubt we'll hit Endwalkers/covid levels of activity, the numbers will spike when Dawntrail releases.
It is, textures, models and lighting related shit. New areas will likely be up to scratch, but they're going to roll out the rest of the update piecemeal.
Raytracing in WoW is shadows only and you can't even tell it's enabled other than your framerate just halved. The game hasn't had any significant visual update since 2016 in Legion
I swear if one thing they took from ff16 was the work they did going into textures and the experience in higher fidelity graphics. The dev panel they did on the graphic update was great showing off the different textures in the Viper glam for example.
Honestly the budget 1.0 had put into really vanished when they had to start everything over from scratch don't know if SE was being stingy or because they had to deal with making it for consoles.
apparently, some femra gays are b***hing about the limbal rings not being bright LEDs anymore, which in my opinion look fricking terrible. Also, the limbal rings being so bright and looking so jarring apparently wasn't intentional.
I swear if one thing they took from ff16 was the work they did going into textures and the experience in higher fidelity graphics. The dev panel they did on the graphic update was great showing off the different textures in the Viper glam for example.
It's just standard cultist behavior. There's no metric that supports the game even being a blip on the radar anywhere in the world outside of Japan. Even stuff like Elder Scrolls Online has a bigger playerbase.
>How come XIV players always have to tell others that their game is successful, yet no other MMO has to?
WoW did and does it all the time, you gaslighting frick
i just wish ffxiv didnt have moronic systems, dropped ps4 support and better netcode.
wow is also fun from time to time but then you hit dumb wow logic and systems
all in all, the only reason i play these games is for hmofa porn
I hope so too but I also know when it comes to kemono girls they always push the more human side for females when it comes to Japan we'd be lucky if they look anything like the ronso from 10 or anything from 9 like burmecian.
I think Turtle WoW is the biggest although it might be now completely infested with Chinese bot scammers, I always find that problem once a private server gets popular the bot sellers descend like a fricking plague.
Yeah, no way I wanna go play troonyflight. Even Alphinaud has more testosterone than anything I've seen in current retail WoW. The gameplay can't make up for how off the entire WoW vibe is nowadays. My last cope is that Metzen came home to clean house and that whatever is next will be better.
Honestly the bar for WoW writing has sunk so fricking low that I'll gladly gobble up Metzen's corruption slop over the literal LGBTQ propaganda Dragonflight is spewing.
>My last cope is that Metzen came home to clean house and that whatever is next will be better.
Dude. Think about it for a little. Mike Morhaime, who was the president of blizzard, could not save Overwatch. What chances does Metzen has with WoW if he is in a position with way less authority?
It was pretty funny them trying to make Firaak seem like an intimidating, serious threat in the latest cinematic despite him never doing anything.
Give him this big, evil monologue and everything about how he's gonna get everyone and people's response is just "this fricking loser hasn't even killed anyone yet, how am I supposed to take him seriously".
Dragonflight's story is so lame and toothless that the villain straight up doesn't even feel like a threat. He literally comes off like an edgy 13 year old screeching about how all his bullies are totally gonna pay.
I have no idea who still plays WoW. Addicts? People solely into end game raids? Roleplayers? I just don't see your average MMORPG player being at all into what retail WoW is.
Most people just play Classic these days.
It's unironically turning into an OSRS situation where the 'old version' of the game with a tiny team working on it has way, way more players than the 'new, improved' version that eats money.
I haven't played wow for nearly a decade but I can't stop watching videos of people dying in hardcore. Some of the absolute goobers playing this game astound me.
Keyboard turning clicking hunters somehow making it all the way to BWL just to wipe nearly the entire raid.
Dozens of people failing the jump to MC and dying in the lava/hitting the ramp
People trying to skip portions of DireMaul and wiping when someone pulls a mob.
People going in caves and never leaving
Hardcore WoW is mostly populated by boomers in their 30's whose reflexes and skills are no longer as tight as they were nearly twenty years ago >t. boomer in his 30's whose reflexes and skills are no longer as tight as they were nearly twenty years ago
I hit 60 in hardcore on my first character and I had never played much of WoW at all, outside of a few months during Legion
I've played other old MMOs so I have a decent understanding of how pulling and aggro works, so it really wasn't that bad
Most of the death clips I see are just people either doing something hilariously moronic or being impatient because they didn't feel like waiting a few seconds to do something safely
Part of me wants to do a 2nd character, but I still don't like that trading is enabled on hardcore servers. Kind of ruins the economy of the server after the first couple of weeks.
i quit HC at lvl 34. I realized that if i really want to hit 60 I have a 100% chance of doing it and then the same cancerous playerbase is there at 60 as in normal classic WoW. GDKP
Watching Hardcore WoW is like viewing some time-travel TV that lets you see how people played in 2005. I genuinely believe most of the people in these hardcore death comps have barely played MMOs before, if at all.
They had a chance to correct their mistakes and reclaim the crown with Classic and the Coof lockdowns, but they listened to the nochanges trannies and shat the fricking bed somehow
FFXIV fricking sucks, but WoW Retail sucks harder and WoW Classic is a dead game until they do a Classic+ because Classic fundamentally cannot receive updates or do anything to shake up its long-calcified meta.
For those who actually like the stinking, fetid trash that is the nu-MMORPG genre, FFXIV is the better choice in comparison to WoW Retail, while Classic cannot bring in new and old players because its two decade old content that never changes.
>mmos before wow didn't had target combat >literally having problem with target combat despite it being the most rpg thing ever
No, people like you are the problem
Dragonflight in isolation is a great expansion. Problem is in the larger context of the game, it's fricked beyond repair and there's nothing to do but collect transmogs and mounts and there's no point to doing harder content because the rewards are just more of the same.
Unironically play New World expansion made it a 9/10 game https://youtu.be/JNyx1hWov7Y
>Dragonflight in isolation is a great expansion
It's not, it's so extraordinarily average. The story is terrible, the questing is forgettable, world quests are the worst ever, PVP is entirely forgotten and hasn't received any content since BFA, the only thing holding the tent up is Mythic+ and everyone that still plays, plays only that
It will never be 2008 again. Get over it. Stop brooding over “the old days”. If you’re that stuck in the past, go play classic. It’s the containment zone for people like you.
Regardless, newer isn't necessarily better. Modern MMOs are basically if you took Darktide and made the player spend 100 hours killing shitty zombies and playing cutscenes to even get on the Mourningstar, and there was an intrusive cash shop that offered you to pay money to skip the zombie killing part, and also tried to guilt you into coming back every day to do pointless tasks that were only meant to inflate "engagement" statistics.
This sort of thing could only have come off of Vanilla WoW's momentum. Without a large, established MMO fanbase who treat MMOs like a race to the "endgame," no one would think that making the beginning of their game as pointless and garbage as possible would be a good idea or that trying to get players pay money to skip the beginning would be a scam that would actually work.
You pay for the box, you pay a monthly sub, then you pay again to skip all the content, makes total sense
7 months ago
Anonymous
GDKP should've been banned the second it started I hate blizzard so much for normalizing that shit
7 months ago
Anonymous
Explaim gdkp to me.
All i know is that it comes from worst korea.
7 months ago
Anonymous
loot in raids is auctioned for gold
7 months ago
Anonymous
It has the most rewarding open world/crafting since Star Wars Galaxies and ArcheAge beta. Not saying much but still the crafting/gathering experience is 10/10
[...]
Bidding for loot goes up to billions of gold
On whose fricking authority?
What happens if im a random guy playing for fun and i just need an item?
7 months ago
Anonymous
You wouldn't have gotten into a GDKP group without paying a 60-150K entrance fee.
7 months ago
Anonymous
This guy should find random pug or raiding guild. Both of those things are almost completely wiped out by GDKP.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You wouldn't have gotten into a GDKP group without paying a 60-150K entrance fee.
Can south koreans even be considered human?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Explaim gdkp to me.
You go into a raid. You kill a boss. People bid gold for the loot. After raid ends, total gold pot is split between the raid.
no idea why people complain about it
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because all the gold is purchased with a credit card you disingenuous shithead. People are paying for gear with real money
7 months ago
Anonymous
You buy the gold from other people. If you hadn't bought and spent it, they would've. Big deal. Literally zero impact upon the game economy.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's purchased from 3rd party websites, you are lying as all GDKP apologists do
7 months ago
Anonymous
>no idea why people complain about it
good morning chang
I'm gonna buy the NW expansion soon I've been playing it again and actually hit 60 this time and enjoying myself way more than before. They really cleaned up the main quest that breadcrumbs you through the zones.
It has the most rewarding open world/crafting since Star Wars Galaxies and ArcheAge beta. Not saying much but still the crafting/gathering experience is 10/10
Explaim gdkp to me.
All i know is that it comes from worst korea.
>play FFXIV >entire gameplay is “stand here”
Why do we pretend to like this so much? Are you that afraid of scalies? Get over yourself. Also, no one plays WoW for the plot. Your dead bird boohoo story is vastly overrated.
>be WoW >Mogged by DFO and FF XI constantly >Constantly regarded as the moron Game by the internet >FF XI starts dying out >DFO starts dying out >Finally your chance to be a well regarded MMO >Get mogged by FF14 >A 10 year old MMO >1 dev instantly kills themselves
Nexon are fricking scammers man how did they manage to get publisher rights for the most played MMO in the world and then make it completely fail in the west. How incompetent are they
>play WoW >shit game >people who play it say its shit and tell you to never play it >still play it themselves because they're moronic
>play ffxiv >good game >people who play it say it's shit >still play it because they're morons who enjoy the game but are afraid to praise it cause it will make them look "uncool"
MMO players are challenged in both critical thinking and social skills. Runescape is truly the only normal place where you can meet normal people that enjoy and play the game normally and discuss it normally
Addiction and sunk cost is the reason people behave this way. When you've spent 7000 hours playing and accumulated a ton of stuff ingame, people have a lot of difficulty walking away from that, even if they're deeply unhappy still playing (which so many people you encounter ingame clearly are)
i feel like when the main award for doing content is ">it's fun" you'll either get FFXIVers or Runescapers as your playerbase where people will do ironic "i-it's shit am i right guys haha" posts or just openly enjoy the game. You still see the latter for FFXIV in most circles but it really feels like a good 30% of the playerbase is scared of being a normal person on the internet.
GDKP is a cool idea since it means you always get something out of a raid. but if you dont plan on raiding every week to keep getting more gold or buying it with real money then you will probably hate it. I played normal classic WoW as a priest and was planning to heal but at 60 I was never able to find or make dungeon groups for the dungeons I needed for gear and because I was a fresh 60 I wasnt able to outbid anyone on gear in GDKP runs. so I just quit
anyone who thinks wow has more than 30k players are utterly delusional beyond comprehension
ffxiv also probably doesnt have more than like 40k tops - player numbers are a lie and are always greatly exxagerated within the confines of the law - both games are shit, and both are not as big as theyd have you believe
wow also never had more than a million players, even back in wotlk. sorry to break your bubble
If both games had that few players why would the bother wasting so much money on buying extra servers? If your answer is to make the games look bigger you are moronic.
For me it's bizzare how the biggest mmo in the world right now has literally zero people in the overworld doing anything. This is around 8 pm on the weekends on Light. Where are even all those people?
Wrath Classic and Dragonflight both have a lot more parses than XIV
XIV had it's peak with Shadowbringers when people were burned out with Shadowlands, the streamers and wowrefugees have mostly gone back or quit the genre entirely because they are 35 now.
48 man reclears of delubrum savage literally fill in seconds you have to watch some troony’s discord like a hawk if you want to get in. Said content is more old school MMO than anything in WoW too.
Bad marketing decisions and poor management. Likely to change with the next expansion.
XIV was alright for a long time but honestly it's really started to wear thin. Almost every class update has been focused on homogenizing every Job and taking any kind of uniqueness and fun out of things. Content has become absurdly formulaic with raids that honestly just suck. The story has stabbed itself repeatedly ever since ShB started, and Post-EW has been a fricking drag.
WoW's shit but at least it manages to present itself well enough most of the time, exceptions being when they do stupid shit like Dracthyr. XIV is being beld by technical restraints and incompetent devs who can't think about class design beyond "Fill gauge, spend gauge, MUH 2 MINUTE WINDOWS", which fricks over everything else because that's what they base encounters around.
The disparity between modes is crazy. The jobs I play in pvp are ones that I never touch in pve and they are so damn good its a shame that its stuck in this mode.
>Try Aion classic to relieve my memories of 2009 release Aion >It get plagued by a Worlo style GDKP system for endgame gear that force you to swipe the credit card if you ever want to gear up
I can't imagine the destruction the GDKP system did to WoW as a whole, especially after Blizzard embraced it and even introduced the Wow tokens to the game so people could buy gold from them instead
Like, what the frick?
Can you even gear up normally at all nowadays in retail? Heck didn't they also put tokens in classic too in the end? So I assume you can't even gear up normally in it at all?
There are a lot of PUGs that aren't GDKP, but they're all absolute trash fires. Take the average player you run into in DF in FF14 and knock off 10-20 IQ, and that's the quality of player that plays classic outside of GDKPs.
reminder that on the day of 14s fanfest they still couldnt drum up more interest than a standard day of wow
final fantasy is an embarrassing failure and yoshida should be publicly shamed over the failure that was 16
According to Ganker metrics XIV blows WoW out of the water. Which metric do you think holds more weight? Don’t tell me you’re a normie who trusts google trends now…
>Feel like checking back >Stop and think for a moment as trial download is happening >Suddenly a feeling of being repulsed from the shit memories >Lose interest and stop the download
I suppose thats how to get over it. I liked the gritty and dirty side of warcraft but its no longer there. Realizing this and thinking upon what endgame would entail gives a viceral reaction in likeness to smoking after being off for years. Not good
Because it's run and developed by incompetent morons who don't know why the original game was good, in a dying market >So FF14 is good?
No it's just run and developed by slightly less incompetent morons.
The story of FF14 is the worst fricking aspect of it and the devs refuse to learn
I don't know why people pit WoW and XIV against each other so much. Aside from both vaguely fitting into the MMO mold they've both evolved to be completely different games aside from maybe raiding where they slightly intersect. The two are better companion games than they are competing games.
WoW-sissies were shitting on XIV for YEARS for thing like lower playerbase and such, and those same wow-sisters are either playing XIV or transitioning
I play FFXIV, but I think WoW likely has more active players. Sadly we'll never know since SE and Blizzard are fricking cowards and won't release player numbers.
they can't fake them with chinese pay by the minute players anymore
>I play FFXIV, but I think WoW likely has more active players.
Before SL? Yes. Today? No.
There is no way Wow still has more players after Blizzard has shut down the Chinese servers.
>release diablo immortal
>china no longer wishes to do business with you
maybe in a decade the loss of their biggest market will bite them in the ass over them convincing billionaires to spend millions of dollars shitting on people in a phone game
Very few entertainment actually manage to do business in China without getting the boot or getting random games/movies/etc banned
Blizzard actively antagonized their Chinese partner with stingy contracts, to the point where Netease celebrated separating from Blizzard by destroying a statue of Thrall over livestream
Yeah I know what I was getting at is that I'm not surprised at all Blizzard got fricked and if they were assuming they'd be getting China money forever they'd be super naive.
Yeah they way overplayed their hand, Bobby gets credit for being a business mastermind but that was a catastrophically bad business move. It also blew up a title they'd been working on for 3 years https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/3/23290523/blizzard-world-of-warcraft-mobile-canceled-netease
Is that a joke? No one play xiv now. That game was hyped on sl release but now even streamers don't stream that shit. It's literally not even a multiplayer game just some stupid vn with crappy mmo style gameplay.
>I think WoW likely has more active players.
I strongly suspect WoW has fewer players right now than people realize, all metrics are showing a steep decline since DF
I assumed as much when Blizzard actually started trying to be "more open with the community" for WoW in the past year. Something had to have happened to start that
I thought most people just did M+ now instead of raids.
The game being on 50% off sale since the week after it launched is another sign that all is not well
>another sale
surprised they just dont discount it to like 10 bucks at this point
That brought a lot of classic andys into retail, there's always a prot warrior using WW and slam in low level dungeons.
>Here's why a 50% off fire sale since launch is actually a good thing and not indicative of a dead game!
The eve tried getting people to come back by letting unsubbed users try DF for free for three days.
well I'm guessing it didn't work since DF is yet another expansion abandoned after X.2
i get the feeling every expansion from here on out is going to end at x.2 just to get more money out of players and just pump out more individual $59.99 expacs
Nope and that's what makes it so funny you gave people three days of game time and the expansion for it and to try your newest class race combo and that didn't get them back at this point it could go free to play and probably wouldn't get enough people playing.
>wanted to try it as a lightforged draenei paladin
>have to grind an old ass expansion on another character before I can even create one
They got rid of that a couple months ago.
They actually got rid of the outdated requirements to make an allied race character? Nice. That's a welcome change. The requirements should have been lifted at the start of SL when those BfA tasks were no longer current content, but better late than never.
This combined with all the emails I got trying to give me free time tells me that DF wasn't really the recovery they'd hoped for. I don't remember that for any previous expansions, even ones that were considered pretty dire. Now i hear it's gonna be yet another expansion dropped after just two patches. It's so unbelievably over.
M+ did decimate casual raiding but Mythic is e-peen raiding
Mythic RWF guilds have been quitting entirely en masse over the past few years, not moving to M+
The only world first guilds that have quit are Paragon, which quit pre Legion because they didn't want to recruit non-Fins and finding exclusively fins who are pro level and willing to raid 16 hours a day was too hard, and Exorsus who quit back in Legion
Since nighthold it's all been Limit and Method, who just rebranded to Liquid and Echo and are still raiding
So where is this en masse quitting?
Echo spent months progging The Omega Protocol. They literally spent more time progging through FFXIV than they did doing their WFR clears in WoW lmao
What kind of moronic goal post move is this
First it was they're quitting now it's they're casually progging another game?
Pieces only got a world first when the other guilds weren't playing
>echo
>only 2 main raiders from wow
>boomer banched raid leader
>literally casual friends
BUT ECHO
I think one of the top10 guilds quit during SL, pieces or something
But it's not like we are getting new amazing guilds that are going to compete with echo or liquid
Yeah. There's no reason to ever step foot in Mythic Raid because you can get fully geared in the first week in M+, and that was before the DF crafting system came in and you could custom-make pieces that were better than that using more materials from the dungeons.
Meanwhile, here's the parses for the FFXIV's latest raid, for comparison.
While these also include reclears, you have to include that only a tiny minority of the playerbase parses, making the actual amount of clears higher than what is shown.
that's cute.
now do the heroic difficulty parses.
Posts like this remind me how utterly incapable of basic math most anons are.
FF troons are truly the mosty conniving sleazy schizos.
Heroic Difficulty has more parse #s and more players than mythic (because they can't do mythic)
the point is, you're disingenously cherry picking high raiding demographic and ignoring the biggest amount of the playerbase which does up to heroic. because you're a shameless yoshihomosexual dicksucker Black person that can't the thought your game is not as popular as WoW/WoW classic.
Tiny is almost an understatement. The majority don't even know what the word means, then a super minority are on an autismo crusade against it.
What makes it trickier is that if even one parser uploads the log to the website, every player will have their parse added, regardless if they have the addon - which makes the data slightly more reliable than if it didn't.
There is also a massive discrepancy between the start of the raid and the end-boss of the raid. Pallas Athena has, if taking the data from the site at face value, 'only' been cleared around 3k-4k times, but that is more due to how brutally difficult and time consuming endbosses tend to be rather than a playerbase problem.
FFXIV Savage is the equivalent of Mythic raids, I am comparing them because they are the most equivalent.
most of the playerbase doesn't do Mythic.
it's deliberately obtuse of you to use mythic as the example, when most of the numbers are on the lesser difficulty.
You also conveniently left out WOTLK classic, which is more popular than Retail.
>Wrath is more popular than retail
In what world lmao
Wrath only has like 400k characters logged
>sources: trust me bro
Ironforge pro tracks classic characters
You're assuming everyone playing Wrath is raiding, dungeons have multiple difficulty modes now and drop raid loot, same as retail
>make false statement that wotlk has more players (with zero proof)
>somebody provides you with evidence to the contrary
>you start coping
this is so tiring, you're desperate for wow to die because you're desperate to be "right" but that's just never gonna happen.
I mean we've known this since castle nathria blew up as the most played raid of all time. The classic experiment failed.
blizzard were right, people thought they wanted it but they didn't, classic is for watching on streams, not playing
You're talking to two different people m8. Levelling zones are highly populated at the moment in Wrath and those players are all not raiding. Clearly 400k actively raiding and parsing does not cover all the actual players playing
only raiders matter
those levelers are not real players
outrageously dumb opinion, half the people that ever played vanilla only levelled. Endgame has always been and will always be for spergs
>2004 shitters
who cares
raids are the only real thing in wow
leveling is just a nuisance
>Savage is the equivalent of mythic.
Lol. Lmao even. Fftroons actually believe this. No troony, savage is equal to heroic. Ultimates are equal to mythic.
there are way more wow heroic parses.....sorry, xiv troons
>100k ret and bm parses
How OP are these specs?
They're not OP, they're just braindead. Think dancer or summoner.
Still insane that bm has 10x as many as survival. Frick blizzard for giving Hunter a melee spec. Ranged survival was kino.
Does XIV have any variety in how their classes play? I just realized it isn't split into specs like wow is.....
>Does XIV have any variety in how their classes play? I just realized it isn't split into specs like wow is.....
In FFXIV you can play every class, but each class is one spec.
There's no specs or talents. You pick a job and it pretty much plays the same across players with some minor variations (speed vs crit builds, different openers to account for latency/skill).
But the upside is that you just play all of these on one character with shared story/quest progression so you can always just jump around to something else with very little friction.
Ff14 also adds more classes then, wow adds one new class every other or third expansion or so, while FF14 shits out two new classes each expansion
I think that the next expasion is going to have 2 new classes, 1 limited class (for specific type of content) and 2 classes will be reworked. So they are going to have 5 new classes to play.
I wouldn't count a rework as a new class, everything else checks out.
>and 2 classes will be reworked
their reworks aren't usually that substantial. I think maybe AST has potential to change a lot. DRG will probably be very similar to how it is right now
The last rework, for SMN, pretty much made it a new class.
yeah, but there's also MNK and PLD which didn't change all that much all things considered
Also, SMN is like half a job at the moment. It's like the base of a new job instead of a fully-fledged one
These metrics are genuinely hard to compare because unlike WoW XIV has no natural mod support so a lot of people don't actually use ACT/DPS meters.
>XIVgays spend all thread shitposting with cherry picked stats to make their game look better
>real stats come out
>WELL YOU CaNT REALLY COMPARE THE TWO
troony cope
Most people never even touch Mythic Raiding disingenuous as frick but to be expected from a XIVtroon.
Most people never even touch Savage raiding and yet it still has more clears than WoW, despite being harder.
>Savage raiding and yet it still has more clears than WoW
No they don't.
And it's 8 players vs 20 players, 1 tier of wow has more clears than 1 xiv expansion, it's not even a competition.
No one want to play your visual novel.
WoW has four tiers of raiding: LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic vs XIV having just two so WoW playerbase is being split far thinner across way more difficulty tiers its not comparable especially when mass majority of the playerbase never goes beyond Normal and Heroic.
Okay, but that's WoW's problem. FFXIV has only normal/LFR (and to be honest, a lot of FFXIV normal raids are harder than WoW LFRs) and Savage (Mythic).
All the players that would only clear Normal and Heroic grade would not make it through Savage, so the comparison is still apt.
>Savage (Mythic).
HOLY moronATION
Next you're gonna tell me Ultimates are the equivalent of Mythics BWAHAHAHAHA
No WoW mythic raids aren't easy enough to clear without a healer
The same can't be said of ultimates
Okay, go do it then.
I don't play japshit because I'm heterosexual
So you're a pussy that can't even clear a gay easy raid for homosexuals.
Sad!
>lol you can't even suck wieners like a sissy homo
Not falling for your groomer mind games
Echo took 5 months to suck Omega's wiener clean. Hah!
I like those guys.
based brownskin brain. Mythic is for a niche playerbase, but that niche presumably stays pretty constant. If, for example Arena numbers showed a raise then drop then raise etc, wouldn't that information be indicative of something?
The point of comparative numbers isn't to see absolute numbers, it's to see trends. Judging by just these numbers, you could see that one piece of content is down significantly, to around 1/3 of what it once was. If one metric is down you can infer other metrics align, unless there is some good evidence that one population has been placated elsewhere.
I wonder what changed, it's like you can get mythic gear by just crafting and doing m+ now.
Also I love it, moronic ex wow players that have no clue about the game using numbers they don't understand.
A lot of guilds in 10.0 were cross-faction and didnt count as guild kills.
>A lot of guilds in 10.0 were cross-faction and didnt count as guild kills.
>nooo the numbers aren't true!!
The trend was already obvious in Shadowlands, DF linearly continues the same downwards trend. The only playerbase that copes harder than retail WoW players is Destiny 2 players, and both are as hopelessly addicted and mazed as each other
>A lot of guilds in 10.0 were cross-faction and didnt count as guild kills.
Didnt they fix that in 10.1
WCL founder said that Castle Nathria was one if not the most played raid ever thanks to the covid boost
They really squandered the Covid stimshot huh.
>mythic raiding stats
Post normal and heroic logs instead. I'm genuinely curious how those are in comparison.
Iirc bellular talked about in a video, the numbers are higher but the trajectory is the same.
WoW mythic raids are 20 man vs. FFXIV's 8 so there will naturally be less logs.
Also for some moronic reason Blizzard wants every class to have a unique buff so you are forced into recruiting specifically those classes. In FFXIV you can deal with not having a specific 90/120sec CD buff but in WoW mythic is balanced around having those classes in your raid. A lot easier to recruit 1 (magic DPS) and 1 (shield healer) than it is recruiting specifically a warlock (else no gate for encounter that needs them) or an enhancement shaman (less melee dps in a dps race fight).
WoW raids have also become stupid hard now, and some mechanics 100% require addons to do. NO ONE does M-Echo's hearts without the Liquid weakaura and attempting to do so without it is humanly impossible the way the boss is balanced.
I unironically believe Blizzard needs to 1) prune a lot of shit, and 2) get rid of addons but also make raids actually fricking doable with less visual noise.
>if this trend continues it will drop to triple digits before long
jesus
I'm willing to bet they don't
Dragonflight genuinely tanked WoW in a way SL nor BFA did, not even combined. I say this as someone who no longer plays xiv nor wow.
i have a soft spot for WoW and wanted a reason to come back but dragon shit does absolutely nothing for me, seems incredibly boring and lame.
I don't remember anything from the levelling experience, the story was absolute nonsense, and not fun nonsense like WOD, just below fanfiction level stupidity. It's easily the worst one they've ever done. When current players say 'the game is the best it has ever been' I assume they must have played a different game
>When current players say 'the game is the best it has ever been'
I'm not a psychologist so who knows, but i always assumed a lot of that was sunken cost fallacy. The same types of people who have like 30k posts on bnet and/or mmo-champ and for them the game is a huge huge part of their life.
yeah I think you're probably spot on. I remember the exact phrase because they all say it like invasion of the body snatchers, verbatim every time
Just listen to the music and ambient noise when you feel the urge to play.
I don't think ff14 ever had more players than wow
there was a very short period where it did, shortly around the wow exodus and a lot of wow streamers going to ff14 for a little bit
don't think it was too long though
I think the numbers are fairly close all things considered. I doubt WoW has anywhere near the numbers it used to, but still likely more than FFXIV.
That was a lie. Gaming journalists lied to get clicks because of the Activision lawsuit happening. FfXIV never overtook WOW and the exodus never happened. WOW has always been on top, XIV shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath.
uh huh, whatever you say anon
>the exodus never happened
Shadowlands 9.1 unironically killed the game, I wish I could see the internal sub graphs around that patch time because it would be a vertical cliff of unsubscribes
No, not even close.
It's actually nuts how fricking easy it would be to kill wow. Twice now XIV has had the entire internet on its side and instead of doubling down and hiring more, yoshi p cries on cam and fans applaud and everyone else leaves again cause they realize it's a cult circlejerk of trannies and israelites
The gameplay sucks, simple as. 2.5s GCD will never be good, doesn't matter how much goodwill they have on side. I know, I know 'it gets better after 200hrs', but 99% of people are not going to bother with that
>entire internet on its side
You are an delusional XIV troony. The other poster is correct, your favorite game has never been the #1 and will never be #1.
But XIV is number 1 right now and has been for at least a year lmao.
WoWbucks and delusion go hand in hand
At some point WoW took a look at XIV and must have said
>What do they have that we don't?
>oh, it must be the story!
Then they wrote a soulless story that shuts all over established lore when nobody, not one person for the first two expansions especially played for any story.
wow has been trying to have a story since swtor
The WoW story has sucked since Wrath. The only reason people liked it's for lack standards and Arthas.
>The WoW story has sucked since Wrath
Funny, I thought it started sucking at tbc but then someone will probably reply to me and say that vanilla sucked then that guy will get a reply telling him that the story was always bad. I guess what is consistent is that it's been a downward spiral ever since.
TBC story sucked, Wrath was an improvement, and everything after has been even worse than TBC. this isn't hard to understand.
>Wrath was an improvement
>arthas arrives, tells you how he get you next time, then leaves through portal
you are fricking moron
>, and everything after
lol, lmao
fricking wotlk kids
Not sure about recent expansions, but until at least wod blizzard never hit another low with story like wotlk was
it's always pretty obvious when people praise wotlk's story that they started in wrath and are talking purely nostalgia
northrend was great but its core story was milquetoast nonsense
There's good story beats like Wrathgate that they haven't been able to equal since WOD. The storytelling went significantly downhill after that, and started burrowing through bedrock to depths of mediocrity previously thought impossible in the SL and DF era
>Oh my god it's The Lich King™ and he's monologuing at us okay there he goes bye The Lich King™!
>Holy frick it's The Lich King™ with another monologue holy frick we're really raising the stakes now!
Repeat until ICC where he monologues again but this time we fart on him and he dies.
It's even better when you remember that deathwing presentation was literally blizzard saying sorry for how they treated arthas in wotlk. And even wotlk kids agreed that he was handled better
>then someone will probably reply to me and say that vanilla sucked
vanilla definitely had some lore and story issues, but they weren't as bad as the issues in TBC and later expansions
in any case, trying to defend the dogshit stories, lore rape, and character rape in SL and DF by saying the early content also had problems is pretty silly.
Vanilla was good simply by the fact that everyone was new and having fun and nobody was trying to autistically minmax and gatekeep everything yet. Classic HC has a similar vibe as Vanilla
The vanilla story was fine because it wasn't fron and center. A lot of it sucked but most people didn't even read it so everything was fine.
>Funny, I thought it started sucking at tbc
wow story was always garbo
i dont even know why they tried to write books trying to explain the story
biggest mistake they ever did
like just read medivh' story, shit is the most moronic piece of fantsy media ever written
The issue with Warcraft as a whole is none of the writers give a shit about consistency. Metzen never cared for the details and would just change them to accommodate whatever hare-brained idea he had that week. The issue is there can't be any stakes where important details and events can just cease to exist or be radically altered at a moment's notice.
>WOW GUYS WE KILLED ILLIDAN THIS A MONUMENTAL EVENT IN THE LORE
>jk he's back now and you were wrong all along
>WOW GUYS DEATHWING DIED
>jk he was actually just asleep
>WOW GUYS LOOK AT THE DEFINITIVE COSMOLOGY OF WARCRAFT
>jk that was in-universe speculation, here's the real cosmology which we totally won't alter later when it suits us
Pic related, it's me for even writing about this or caring when even Warcraft's own writers don't give a shit.
For me it was the blood elves joining the horde with the undead.
But night elves joining alliance despite having zero reason to was fine, huh?
Yes, Arthas remaining in control was wotlk retcon
>But night elves joining alliance despite having zero reason to was fine, huh
Yes?
Funny how you didn't mentioned arthas literally being erased and his body going under nerzhul control at the end of tft
It's like there some homosexual agenda you wanted to push with your post or something...
>arthas literally being erased and his body going under nerzhul control
the opposite
>Funny how you didn't mentioned arthas literally being erased and his body going under nerzhul control at the end of tft
Yeah, that was fricking moronic too and I hate everything Christie Golden has ever written.
>here's the real cosmology which we totally won't alter later when it suits us
it's actually the same chart, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhsDlrL0a3c
inb4 >taliesin
Imagine watching fricking Taliesin, I don't care that you already called it out, that guy doesn't even pretend to be anything other than a miserable self-loathing tapdancing carnival barker for Blizzard
no worse than watching people who will do nothing but shit on the game for views. I just click off when I detect bullshit
who's the girl? kinda cute in a homely way
Emiru
is this the guy who punched his infant baby for crying on stream
Warcraft's story was basically done after WotLK, everything outside of Arthas' rise and fall just feels like background noise.
The WoW story has always sucked. The music and art style is what carried the series.
>The WoW story has sucked since Wrath
Since TBC. Arguably Vanilla given all the compromises made to make an MMO work, but definitely TBC.
Daily reminder that blizzard replaced all his voice lines and hasn't brought them back even after he was found not guilty and the judge called his accuser a schizo stalker 🙂
Businesses don't believe in right and wrong, only safe and unsafe.
"Story" is absolutely and profoundly incompatible with MMO design. The attempt to include "story" in MMOs deeply and fundamentally poisons the play experience.
And FF14 is an excruciating example of this. Playing through hyper-anime weeaboo baby story for literally dozens of hours before you can even use the fricking auction house is beyond enraging. I should never have taken another look at that schlock after the horrors of the beta.
Will never... EVER give Activision / Blizzard or Squeenix any money ever again. Ever. Fricking ever.
I'm livid just remembering.
nobody gives a frick about your stupid consolewar-esque game competition
just play what you enjoy
moron, XIV is only popular in japan
XIV has most of its players in America, followed by Europe and Japan.
I started playing FF14 during stormblood and had a lot of fun with it. Got like 1000 hours on it and then accidentally uninstalled my phone token thing you use as 2 factor authentication so I basically got locked out of my account.
Currently I'm playing wow classic and I'm having a lot of fun with it I'm level 27
ff wanted the wow streamer audience then banned anyone who walked in front or or disagreed with the wow streamers who only played for as long as their contracts dictated anyway
I doubt money changed hands, Asmongold has played almost every mmo on stream, streamers simply got bored with the fact that XIV is a glorified VN/chatroom with floaty weird combat
Is being a one game streamer even profitable anymore? It's not like all of the wow streamers went back at doing WoW content, since it's been getting less and less views. Most of then changed into variety streamers.
There's a few games where you can be a one-game streamer. Rust is one of them just because the possibilities for emergent content.
But no, most WoW streamers became general MMO and/or RPG streamers. They still play FFXIV patches
The problem with Streamers, people get very blinkered thinking they represent populations of games. Take Wayfinder and NewWorld, two games Asmongold has been shilling relentlessly yet the population for Wayfinder is at the time of this post 300 people on Steam and 28k for New World, which is ok I guess but for a fairly new mmo after just launching a brand new expansion, it's nothing.
People very much overestimate the importance of Streamers.
MMO's are fricking trash and WOW is why
>Why has WoW failed to overtake FF14?
xiv peaked at 2m subs
this shit is beyond dead even by wow modern standards
>xiv peaked at 2m subs
Source on that?
luckybancho and they boost the numbers, so it's more like 2 million subs over a 4 months period
xiv is really not that big and will never be as big as peak wow
game just came too late with too much competition
even WoW is an absolute tiny fraction of its peak at this point. that game in Wrath was a cultural phenomenon and it'll never happen again for an MMORPG. A lot of hardcore WoW fans don't realize that losing more than 10 million players isn't the W they're hoping for.
>even WoW is an absolute tiny fraction
True, now we have fortnite and minecraft.
Mmos waste too much of your time and let's be honest a lot of the content is pretty boring.
Game like genshit and other f2p mobile trash are the future.
>Game like genshit and other f2p mobile trash are the future.
This is most certainly the case for a while, unless something drastically changes.
MMO's are a massive investment of time and resources, and given the track records of most of them, it makes sense why companies go for the lower hanging fruit.
If it wasn't a grindfest that made me want to blow my brains out, I'd play BDO.
>xiv is really not that big and will never be as big as peak wow
Nothing will ever be that big again, not even WoW. it was a perfect storm.
Let's be honest with ourselves, the entire genre is a shadow of what it used to be. It's a shame with WoW since it was a cultural phenomena, but like with all things, it's eventually run into the ground.
>as peak as WoW
If you mean subscription MMOs, sure. That will never happen again. But a shit ton of other MMO or MMOlites have went far above WOW’s 13 million sub count. Not to mention also out doing WOW’s lifetime revenue. Yes, most are Asian crap but that’s how it is.
>But a shit ton of other MMO or MMOlites have went far above WOW’s 13 million sub count.
Such as? The only one that might have had more monthly players than WoW is Dungeon Fighter Online due to its popularity in China, but it's not really an mmo.
Lineage 2.
None whatsoever. Best you can do is try to estimate xiv subs based on square's earning reports.
no king rules forever my son
MMORPGs are a dead genre, and Im sad to see it. You play one of like 4 biggish MMOs or try out weird games from kickstarter that are doomed to fail.
Maybe because its a 20 year old game?
>surprisingly reasonable discussion about the two games
>suddenly WoW players getting angry at Other Game out of nowhere
every time
I don't even think it's WoW players. It's the same handful of schizos who shit up any MMO thread. Most WoW players I know are pretty reasonable people who don't really buy into the petty rivalry shit with other games these days.
It's poorly socialized morons from /vg/ who were exiled from Ganker because their threads solely consist of 'gooning' over furshit
FFXIV is really the new 'raiders game'. WoW no longer has the best MMO Raid content. Dragonsong Reprise and The Omega Protocol shit on any raid WoW has ever released.
Nothing in FFXIV even comes close to Ulduar or Karazhan.
FF14's raid content is insulting. Reciting a checklist of spots to stand while doing rote memory ability rotations. I respect nobody who considers that shit good design it's 100% antithetical to RPG gameplay. It's at most a deathtrap puzzle room with instant kill if you step on the wrong preplanned floor tile for 5 - 10 minutes. This makes no mention of the difficulty it's insulting design at a genre level regardless of how tight the choreography check is. Yoshi is a fricking fraud.
True brother true, now let's raid in WoW but have you got all your weak aura's installed? You got the right plugin's, call timers, positional information, your dps meters, you got the right tools for this raid? No? Ok you're OUT!
You just described FFXIV in 2023. Got your sims? Your ACT? Your ultrawide? Your cheeses (plugin-assisted)? Mare code so we can goon afterwards? No? YERROUT!
>t. Butthurt cultists
So no clears then.
I'm sure you have vast experience to back this up. Perhaps some clears we can peruse? The only WoW opinion I've really heard on FF14's raids and ultimates were from Echo, pretty much the top raiding guild in WoW so it seems you disagree.
I met my wife in cata and got the fuuuck out
I play turtle wow and I like it a lot. Inb4 shenna
i liked it before the bugs invaded, it became unplayable then
video game discussion seems really shit
I wonder if FFXIV and WoW still keep in touch on social media?
MMOs are a dead genre.
Because FF14 captures the casual audience. And they successfully hoodwinked the hardcore players into thinking they were playing a much deeper/challenging game.
>And they successfully hoodwinked the hardcore players into thinking they were playing a much deeper/challenging game.
that's the biggest cope i've seen all day. you really just can't come to grips with ff being good or people liking it.
i've always played wow, but lately the community has just ruined the game. everyone is just so toxic and elitist. when you think about people acting that way over the few shitty looking armor sets wow has or whatever it's pathetic
It will be very sad to see the raid numbers on 10.2 in WoW Be 50% lower than the previous tier, which was already the lowest it has ever been. I suspect no more than 500 in the world will clear mythic this final tier. Game is actually finally dead. Nothing said at Blizzcon can fix this game.
Good riddance, it hasn't been good for years now and the copium levels from active players are getting genuinely insufferable. I've never seen so many people trying to rationalize such a poor quality game as actually good
Most of what once made wow so strong (muh manly war fantasy game, being the only huge mmo around) is gone now, and ff has taken over with things wowgays never expected (story people give a frick about, fappable npcs, fappable characters). FF also has cross appeal as an erp sim like vrchat, so now the game is packed with those cumbrains who are also very powerful whales. Both games and mmos in general are moving away from the old rpg meta, one turning into a mobile game+, the other an edating club.
>My dying game is better than your dying game
What an insightful discussion.
par for the course for FFXIV V WoW threads
Surprised they are not dick measuring there Cons yet
I've seen shitposters try to start con wars but everyone knows Fan Fest is much smaller than Blizzcon so it's a non starter.
Did Blizzcon sell out already or is it still selling tickets?
There's still discounted tickets available right now, it will probably never sell out before the event
Sad but not surprising. Why would anyone pay the incresed price to see a show that will be streamed anyway.
People used to turn up just to be in the room for the latest hype as frick announcements. Tickets used to sell out in 5 minutes. That all died in 2018
>Don't you guys have phones?
Blizzard will never live that down.
better than yet another ESG thread (barely)
WoW lost the Chinese market while FF14 has continued to grow in popularity in China while growing in the EU and NA at a healthy rate.
FF14 is also huge in Korea and has a massive population in Japan as it's the biggest mmo there.
WoW is seen as a declining brand it's best years are behind it, whereas FF14 is only rising with the upcoming Dawntrail.
It doesn't appear to be growing, what do you base this off of?
The fact that overall growth in XIV has been a steady incline for years now. Month to month is pointless.
XIV is also going to get a Xbox launch next years. this will increase the pool of potential customers.
If you want to take one anecdote for example, (it's not the only proof ff14 is growing where WoW is declining)
FF14 fanfest tickets sold out on the same day, 15k tickets for Las Vegas, 6k tickets for London, 30k tickets for Tokyo meanwhile Blizzcon tickets were still on sale months after they were open to the public. There is also an event in december in Tokyo stadium 55k sold out celebrating the ten year anniversary, concert and fireworks.
FF14 is huge in China with as many players as the Japanese part of the game which is the largest for ff14 whereas WoW no longer exists in China, the Korean version of FF14 is also huge whereas Koreans WoW was never the big game in Korea it was SC2 and we know the story there.
Do the Chinese and Koreans have separate Data Centers from everyone else? Or are they lumped in with Japan?
China and Korea are handled by entirely different publishers and play entirely segregated servers. They're also usually one patch behind the rest of the world (so they just got 6.4).
A lot of Chinese players leap through hoops to play on JP or NA though because apparently the Chinese XIV community is cancer.
Okay, makes sense given the Great Firewall and Korea being well, Korea.
the chinese anything community is cancer
Nothing has made me more racist than having to play with chinese people. Whether it's wow, ffxiv, dota or god forbid wc3, they're rodents. Literal pests who should be confined to their regional servers.
Better yet, they shouldn't have access to the internet at all.
>A lot of Chinese players leap through hoops to play on JP or NA though because apparently the Chinese XIV community is cancer.
they do and apparently, they have to set up their own separated communities because japs don't like chink and will blacklist them from everything as soon as they find out a player is chinese
Yeah, a lot of them have wandered into NA as a result. They're usually okay but I've encountered a few insane ones.
They are separate, The Chinese are 1 patch behind, the Koreans have caught up but they have their own launchers, own DC's.
>WoW is seen as a declining brand it's best years are behind it
That's accurate. XIV never went down the p2w path, but WoW normalized it and it's corrosive to the fabric of the game
FFXIV is easier and safer to play. More weeb stuff and this is a weeb's generation. Just look at all the cars with weeb stickers. Nobody hidin they power level no more.
>Just look at all the cars with weeb stickers. Nobody hidin they power level no more.
ff troons are some of the most delusional schizos i have ever seen. completely mindbroken
both games are doing poorly right now. people are getting tired of MMOs and aren't gaining many new players
WoW performance has dropped significantly since DF, the braindead interns in charge of the engine since all the veterans quit have fricked it up pretty badly. People are upgrading to 7800X3D just to maintain a steady framerate in the main city Valdrakken. The toaster PC audience of the game used to be the lifeblood but they can't play any longer. It's the quiet cause of a lot of people quitting
every online game had inflated playerbases because of covid and now everything is cratering.
While I won't say you are wrong, I'll defend ff14 by saying that this is the X.5 patch which tends to have significantly lower player retention. It's unfair to compare it to the launch of their most anticipated expansion.
While I doubt we'll hit Endwalkers/covid levels of activity, the numbers will spike when Dawntrail releases.
WoW has raytracing
XIV has NOTHING
Isn't FFXIV getting a graphical update next expac?
It is, textures, models and lighting related shit. New areas will likely be up to scratch, but they're going to roll out the rest of the update piecemeal.
Raytracing in WoW is shadows only and you can't even tell it's enabled other than your framerate just halved. The game hasn't had any significant visual update since 2016 in Legion
What happened to the character creation additions that blizzard promised?
Too busy stealing from the breast milk fridge, sorry! Please keep subbing to our game though
My mistake for expecting anything outside of raid content.
yeah, and it is a huge improvement in some areas
I swear if one thing they took from ff16 was the work they did going into textures and the experience in higher fidelity graphics. The dev panel they did on the graphic update was great showing off the different textures in the Viper glam for example.
yeah. the PBR looked great
WoW doesn't even have specular on their models yet, PBR is a decade away, if it ever happens
Honestly the budget 1.0 had put into really vanished when they had to start everything over from scratch don't know if SE was being stingy or because they had to deal with making it for consoles.
I honestly how it's going to make some peoples characters look after the fact. I expect Fantasias are going to see a spike.
apparently, some femra gays are b***hing about the limbal rings not being bright LEDs anymore, which in my opinion look fricking terrible. Also, the limbal rings being so bright and looking so jarring apparently wasn't intentional.
This is why they hardly made any character changed. As soon as they did someone would be mad.
i think they added a option for bright limbals but i think the muted color looks better honestly
BEHOLD
https://imgur.com/gallery/aRQcIHT
here's a gallery with most of the things showcased
I'm surprised I don't see more people share the image of the middie girl with the black hair. Looks like its from a different game completely.
uncanny valley means it looks like a downgrade from the current middie face
who did it better?
How come XIV players always have to tell others that their game is successful, yet no other MMO has to? Giving me big Wildstar vibes
Retail WoW is the modern wildstar, constantly pandering to the 1% while feeding casuals copy-pasted world event slop. XIV is casual paradise
It's just standard cultist behavior. There's no metric that supports the game even being a blip on the radar anywhere in the world outside of Japan. Even stuff like Elder Scrolls Online has a bigger playerbase.
>How come XIV players always have to tell others that their game is successful, yet no other MMO has to?
WoW did and does it all the time, you gaslighting frick
i just wish ffxiv didnt have moronic systems, dropped ps4 support and better netcode.
wow is also fun from time to time but then you hit dumb wow logic and systems
all in all, the only reason i play these games is for hmofa porn
As a new player with friends, should we hop in in retail or play classic?
If you want to keep your friends, don't play WoW
I think I would play FF14 if they had monster races. I really like goblins and orcs in WoW and dont want to play as a generic anime human in FF
you get gay bara cats and that's it
and big cat ladies soon
I want to play as the same race as the FF9 black wizard thing is
>I want to play as the same race as the FF9 black wizard thing is
Your only option is a Black Mage lalafel.
The Black Waltzes were pretty sick visually. I'm surprised they never did anything in XIV referencing them.
If they don't make them cat girl 2.0.
the animations linked to the legs they added look kind of beastlike, so I'm hopeful they'll be decent-looking kemono girls
I hope so too but I also know when it comes to kemono girls they always push the more human side for females when it comes to Japan we'd be lucky if they look anything like the ronso from 10 or anything from 9 like burmecian.
There's room for only ONE big girl race in FF14.
the already minuscule femroe population is getting decimated in DT
>do 9/12 hc ICC25 on patch day
Too easy. Lich King mechanics are easy AF too.
Which private servers for WOW are the best to play right now?
I think Turtle WoW is the biggest although it might be now completely infested with Chinese bot scammers, I always find that problem once a private server gets popular the bot sellers descend like a fricking plague.
didn't they open a second server and region locked the old one?
For solo nostalgia trip, make your own. MMO part is overrated anyway.
The solo repacks seem interesting, modern MMO players are barely discernible from bots anyway
Honestly I think I kinda wanna go back to WoW.
You mays as well wait until next Expansion. Even blizzard has seem to give up on Dragonflight.
Yeah, no way I wanna go play troonyflight. Even Alphinaud has more testosterone than anything I've seen in current retail WoW. The gameplay can't make up for how off the entire WoW vibe is nowadays. My last cope is that Metzen came home to clean house and that whatever is next will be better.
Blizzdrone eagerly waits to gobble up the latest corruption slop
Honestly the bar for WoW writing has sunk so fricking low that I'll gladly gobble up Metzen's corruption slop over the literal LGBTQ propaganda Dragonflight is spewing.
>3 gay couples
>literal LGBTQ propaganda
I hate gay people as much as the next anon but you might be reaching a little here
>My last cope is that Metzen came home to clean house and that whatever is next will be better.
Dude. Think about it for a little. Mike Morhaime, who was the president of blizzard, could not save Overwatch. What chances does Metzen has with WoW if he is in a position with way less authority?
chris metzen had nothing to do with game design or how the company was run.
lol.
It was pretty funny them trying to make Firaak seem like an intimidating, serious threat in the latest cinematic despite him never doing anything.
Give him this big, evil monologue and everything about how he's gonna get everyone and people's response is just "this fricking loser hasn't even killed anyone yet, how am I supposed to take him seriously".
Dragonflight's story is so lame and toothless that the villain straight up doesn't even feel like a threat. He literally comes off like an edgy 13 year old screeching about how all his bullies are totally gonna pay.
>one dead game failed to overtake another dead game
Who the frick cares.
I have no idea who still plays WoW. Addicts? People solely into end game raids? Roleplayers? I just don't see your average MMORPG player being at all into what retail WoW is.
It's zoomers playing M+ as an esport, that's all WoW is nowadays. All the millennial boomers are either gone or moved to classic
Most people just play Classic these days.
It's unironically turning into an OSRS situation where the 'old version' of the game with a tiny team working on it has way, way more players than the 'new, improved' version that eats money.
I haven't played wow for nearly a decade but I can't stop watching videos of people dying in hardcore. Some of the absolute goobers playing this game astound me.
Keyboard turning clicking hunters somehow making it all the way to BWL just to wipe nearly the entire raid.
Dozens of people failing the jump to MC and dying in the lava/hitting the ramp
People trying to skip portions of DireMaul and wiping when someone pulls a mob.
People going in caves and never leaving
Hardcore WoW is mostly populated by boomers in their 30's whose reflexes and skills are no longer as tight as they were nearly twenty years ago
>t. boomer in his 30's whose reflexes and skills are no longer as tight as they were nearly twenty years ago
I hit 60 in hardcore on my first character and I had never played much of WoW at all, outside of a few months during Legion
I've played other old MMOs so I have a decent understanding of how pulling and aggro works, so it really wasn't that bad
Most of the death clips I see are just people either doing something hilariously moronic or being impatient because they didn't feel like waiting a few seconds to do something safely
Part of me wants to do a 2nd character, but I still don't like that trading is enabled on hardcore servers. Kind of ruins the economy of the server after the first couple of weeks.
i quit HC at lvl 34. I realized that if i really want to hit 60 I have a 100% chance of doing it and then the same cancerous playerbase is there at 60 as in normal classic WoW. GDKP
Watching Hardcore WoW is like viewing some time-travel TV that lets you see how people played in 2005. I genuinely believe most of the people in these hardcore death comps have barely played MMOs before, if at all.
They're hamming it up because a successful HC stream is not an interesting one
Surprised to not see the defias wizard or whatever it was called on there. That thing always popped up on 'most dangerous' lists back in the day.
They had a chance to correct their mistakes and reclaim the crown with Classic and the Coof lockdowns, but they listened to the nochanges trannies and shat the fricking bed somehow
WoW killed the genre.
I don't raid.
>inb4 Classic+ break records
>Classic+
I'm already playing it. Pretty fun tbh senpai.
FFXIV fricking sucks, but WoW Retail sucks harder and WoW Classic is a dead game until they do a Classic+ because Classic fundamentally cannot receive updates or do anything to shake up its long-calcified meta.
For those who actually like the stinking, fetid trash that is the nu-MMORPG genre, FFXIV is the better choice in comparison to WoW Retail, while Classic cannot bring in new and old players because its two decade old content that never changes.
because while people complain how gay 14 is, current wow is, to quote one Master Shake: The Gayest Monster since gay came to gaytown.
But everyone has said how WoW has been "getting better" and it's "all good" when clearly it isn't.
>target combat
>90% of content is instanced
>rep grinding
>vertical progression
wow is the destroyer of MMO genre
>mmos before wow didn't had target combat
>literally having problem with target combat despite it being the most rpg thing ever
No, people like you are the problem
>target combat
>the most rpg thing ever
yes, its not about player's actions and world's reaction to them, its about combat
you dipshit
I wont disagree with your last statement but besides vertical progression the rest is fine.
Dragonflight in isolation is a great expansion. Problem is in the larger context of the game, it's fricked beyond repair and there's nothing to do but collect transmogs and mounts and there's no point to doing harder content because the rewards are just more of the same.
Unironically play New World expansion made it a 9/10 game https://youtu.be/JNyx1hWov7Y
>Dragonflight in isolation is a great expansion
It's not, it's so extraordinarily average. The story is terrible, the questing is forgettable, world quests are the worst ever, PVP is entirely forgotten and hasn't received any content since BFA, the only thing holding the tent up is Mythic+ and everyone that still plays, plays only that
It will never be 2008 again. Get over it. Stop brooding over “the old days”. If you’re that stuck in the past, go play classic. It’s the containment zone for people like you.
wow was in 2005.
yes i'm old
??? think you replied to the wrong post fren
Were you intending to respond to that post?
Regardless, newer isn't necessarily better. Modern MMOs are basically if you took Darktide and made the player spend 100 hours killing shitty zombies and playing cutscenes to even get on the Mourningstar, and there was an intrusive cash shop that offered you to pay money to skip the zombie killing part, and also tried to guilt you into coming back every day to do pointless tasks that were only meant to inflate "engagement" statistics.
The fact that you can pay to skip the game removes all interest in playing the game for me. Worst 'innovation' of modern gaming
This sort of thing could only have come off of Vanilla WoW's momentum. Without a large, established MMO fanbase who treat MMOs like a race to the "endgame," no one would think that making the beginning of their game as pointless and garbage as possible would be a good idea or that trying to get players pay money to skip the beginning would be a scam that would actually work.
You pay for the box, you pay a monthly sub, then you pay again to skip all the content, makes total sense
GDKP should've been banned the second it started I hate blizzard so much for normalizing that shit
Explaim gdkp to me.
All i know is that it comes from worst korea.
loot in raids is auctioned for gold
On whose fricking authority?
What happens if im a random guy playing for fun and i just need an item?
You wouldn't have gotten into a GDKP group without paying a 60-150K entrance fee.
This guy should find random pug or raiding guild.
Both of those things are almost completely wiped out by GDKP.
Can south koreans even be considered human?
>Explaim gdkp to me.
You go into a raid. You kill a boss. People bid gold for the loot. After raid ends, total gold pot is split between the raid.
no idea why people complain about it
Because all the gold is purchased with a credit card you disingenuous shithead. People are paying for gear with real money
You buy the gold from other people. If you hadn't bought and spent it, they would've. Big deal. Literally zero impact upon the game economy.
It's purchased from 3rd party websites, you are lying as all GDKP apologists do
>no idea why people complain about it
good morning chang
It's Sun Kwon actually.
I'm gonna buy the NW expansion soon I've been playing it again and actually hit 60 this time and enjoying myself way more than before. They really cleaned up the main quest that breadcrumbs you through the zones.
Is New World good if i like openworld grinding and crafting/housing?
I played Albion but it is completely P2W now and overtaken by bots.
It has the most rewarding open world/crafting since Star Wars Galaxies and ArcheAge beta. Not saying much but still the crafting/gathering experience is 10/10
Bidding for loot goes up to billions of gold
>Imagine the amount of dailies these guys have done to farm this gold
Yeah dailies.
The grinding element is pretty nice, I haven't done much housing honestly.
>n-no popular MMOS are bad, play this early access survival crafting zombie game
anon i'm gonna have to ask you to die
>Dragonflight in isolation is a great expansion.
Blizzdrones are the videogame equivalent of crack addicts.
>play FFXIV
>entire gameplay is “stand here”
Why do we pretend to like this so much? Are you that afraid of scalies? Get over yourself. Also, no one plays WoW for the plot. Your dead bird boohoo story is vastly overrated.
You now remember Tirion's death.
I WILL NEVER YIELD! THE LIGHT WILL PROT-ACK!
played ffxiv and wow
gw1+2 is my home now
Sanctuary soon, fellow homebros
>be WoW
>Mogged by DFO and FF XI constantly
>Constantly regarded as the moron Game by the internet
>FF XI starts dying out
>DFO starts dying out
>Finally your chance to be a well regarded MMO
>Get mogged by FF14
>A 10 year old MMO
>1 dev instantly kills themselves
Nexon are fricking scammers man how did they manage to get publisher rights for the most played MMO in the world and then make it completely fail in the west. How incompetent are they
Na nexon are fricking moronic because DFO makes hundreds of millions if not billions. I’m still made about ms2 aswell
>play WoW
>shit game
>people who play it say its shit and tell you to never play it
>still play it themselves because they're moronic
>play ffxiv
>good game
>people who play it say it's shit
>still play it because they're morons who enjoy the game but are afraid to praise it cause it will make them look "uncool"
MMO players are challenged in both critical thinking and social skills. Runescape is truly the only normal place where you can meet normal people that enjoy and play the game normally and discuss it normally
Addiction and sunk cost is the reason people behave this way. When you've spent 7000 hours playing and accumulated a ton of stuff ingame, people have a lot of difficulty walking away from that, even if they're deeply unhappy still playing (which so many people you encounter ingame clearly are)
i feel like when the main award for doing content is ">it's fun" you'll either get FFXIVers or Runescapers as your playerbase where people will do ironic "i-it's shit am i right guys haha" posts or just openly enjoy the game. You still see the latter for FFXIV in most circles but it really feels like a good 30% of the playerbase is scared of being a normal person on the internet.
GDKP is a cool idea since it means you always get something out of a raid. but if you dont plan on raiding every week to keep getting more gold or buying it with real money then you will probably hate it. I played normal classic WoW as a priest and was planning to heal but at 60 I was never able to find or make dungeon groups for the dungeons I needed for gear and because I was a fresh 60 I wasnt able to outbid anyone on gear in GDKP runs. so I just quit
XIVsters...
do you think you could take Yoshi P in a fistfight?
Neither would be here without Everquest.
I have so much nostalgia for Norrath but can't be bothered to play EQ or EQ2 again.
anyone who thinks wow has more than 30k players are utterly delusional beyond comprehension
ffxiv also probably doesnt have more than like 40k tops - player numbers are a lie and are always greatly exxagerated within the confines of the law - both games are shit, and both are not as big as theyd have you believe
wow also never had more than a million players, even back in wotlk. sorry to break your bubble
If both games had that few players why would the bother wasting so much money on buying extra servers? If your answer is to make the games look bigger you are moronic.
For me it's bizzare how the biggest mmo in the world right now has literally zero people in the overworld doing anything. This is around 8 pm on the weekends on Light. Where are even all those people?
https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/
I seriously doubt that 30k people are raiding and pvping on 12 characters each
Wrath Classic and Dragonflight both have a lot more parses than XIV
XIV had it's peak with Shadowbringers when people were burned out with Shadowlands, the streamers and wowrefugees have mostly gone back or quit the genre entirely because they are 35 now.
Uh
WoW has multiple activities and m+ the most popular of them. Xiv only has raids and some crappy bgs so people do raids mostly.
48 man reclears of delubrum savage literally fill in seconds you have to watch some troony’s discord like a hawk if you want to get in. Said content is more old school MMO than anything in WoW too.
FF14 has:
>56man raids
>24man raids
>8man raids in different difficulty levels
>8man ultimates
>8man trials in different difficulty levels
>4man dungeons
>4man variant dungeons
>4man criterion dungeons
>4man deep dungeon
So it has raids and dungeons?
Bad marketing decisions and poor management. Likely to change with the next expansion.
XIV was alright for a long time but honestly it's really started to wear thin. Almost every class update has been focused on homogenizing every Job and taking any kind of uniqueness and fun out of things. Content has become absurdly formulaic with raids that honestly just suck. The story has stabbed itself repeatedly ever since ShB started, and Post-EW has been a fricking drag.
WoW's shit but at least it manages to present itself well enough most of the time, exceptions being when they do stupid shit like Dracthyr. XIV is being beld by technical restraints and incompetent devs who can't think about class design beyond "Fill gauge, spend gauge, MUH 2 MINUTE WINDOWS", which fricks over everything else because that's what they base encounters around.
>pvp kits have job identity
>pve kits don't
Pantsu on head morons. I hate pvp and hate how it actually has the fun versions of jobs.
The disparity between modes is crazy. The jobs I play in pvp are ones that I never touch in pve and they are so damn good its a shame that its stuck in this mode.
>finally get around to unlocking the new blue mage carnivale trial
>the guy has insane HP and is a boring slog
They don't even try anymore.
Genuine skill issue. His hp pool is fine if you actually do proper damage
>Try Aion classic to relieve my memories of 2009 release Aion
>It get plagued by a Worlo style GDKP system for endgame gear that force you to swipe the credit card if you ever want to gear up
I can't imagine the destruction the GDKP system did to WoW as a whole, especially after Blizzard embraced it and even introduced the Wow tokens to the game so people could buy gold from them instead
Like, what the frick?
Can you even gear up normally at all nowadays in retail? Heck didn't they also put tokens in classic too in the end? So I assume you can't even gear up normally in it at all?
Classic wow is a shitshow full of bots, goldselling and GDKPs. You can still find a guild to raid with but good luck finding a PuG that isn't GDKP
There are a lot of PUGs that aren't GDKP, but they're all absolute trash fires. Take the average player you run into in DF in FF14 and knock off 10-20 IQ, and that's the quality of player that plays classic outside of GDKPs.
wowsissies getting btfo nonstop
reminder that on the day of 14s fanfest they still couldnt drum up more interest than a standard day of wow
final fantasy is an embarrassing failure and yoshida should be publicly shamed over the failure that was 16
no one cares transmongold
Asmon is as disgusted by what retail WoW has become as much as anyone.
According to Ganker metrics XIV blows WoW out of the water. Which metric do you think holds more weight? Don’t tell me you’re a normie who trusts google trends now…
WoW would have to be completely free if I were to touch it again.
>Feel like checking back
>Stop and think for a moment as trial download is happening
>Suddenly a feeling of being repulsed from the shit memories
>Lose interest and stop the download
I suppose thats how to get over it. I liked the gritty and dirty side of warcraft but its no longer there. Realizing this and thinking upon what endgame would entail gives a viceral reaction in likeness to smoking after being off for years. Not good
Nice bait friend. Well played.
>watch someone play FF14
>it's literally just cutscenes after cutscenes
lol nice game
ITT: WoWbucks have a melty about a better game
They're both shit. It's two mentally ill addict groups flinging shit at each other and the rest of us watching in amusement.
Keep in mind FFlogs doesn’t been have full compatibility for all fights and requires manual opt in
Shut the frick up.
Did FF14 get a bad patch or something? Wondering what prompted this particular bout of console warring spergouts
Blizz leak coupled with blizzcon not selling our coupled with EU ffxiv event
Because it's run and developed by incompetent morons who don't know why the original game was good, in a dying market
>So FF14 is good?
No it's just run and developed by slightly less incompetent morons.
The story of FF14 is the worst fricking aspect of it and the devs refuse to learn
I don't know why people pit WoW and XIV against each other so much. Aside from both vaguely fitting into the MMO mold they've both evolved to be completely different games aside from maybe raiding where they slightly intersect. The two are better companion games than they are competing games.
WoW-sissies were shitting on XIV for YEARS for thing like lower playerbase and such, and those same wow-sisters are either playing XIV or transitioning
We can blame the rotten tooth mongoloid having a mental break and pulling both games into it