Why have indie games been consistently unable to surpass the retro games they take inspiration from?
Why have indie games been consistently unable to surpass the retro games they take inspiration from?
Community-driven video game blog & discussion
Community-driven video game blog & discussion
Why have indie games been consistently unable to surpass the retro games they take inspiration from?
I don't like indieslop but are you seriously asking this question?
>How is a game made by one person or a few more not on the same level as a game made by a studio
Indie games have better tech and bigger budgets, and most of these indie studios have over a dozen people dumbass
>Indie games have better tech and bigger budgets, and most of these indie studios have over a dozen people dumbass
Well then don't compare the best looking retro game in existence to a game game made by one person like the picture in the OP.
Let me rephrase the anon's question.
>How is a game by a small team of amateurs on the same level as the greatest professionals in the industry backed by one of of the major videogame corporations at the time?
Nazca were complete nobodies before Metal Slug you stupid fuck.
>Nazca were complete nobodies before Metal Slug you stupid fuck.
So were the Cuphead devs you stupid fuck. Comparing the most talented of a generation to the average is and will continue to be stupid but you can't seem to get this point through your thick fucking skull no matter how many people fucking say it in a hundred of your copy pasted thread.
The average retro game absolutely mogs the average indie game you stupid fuck. That is the point.
Bullshit. 90% of retro games suck ass and are not played nor remembered today. I didn't see you putting Midnight Resistance as the retro game in your OP because you cherry pick the best and know it. There are a ton of 8, 9 and 10 out 10 indie games out there that keep pace with the best of the retro scene.
And lets remember that the modern 2D scene is a sideshow to 3D gaming and not the focus of the entire industry like 2D gaming was. We get a ton of good games despite that.
>Nazca were complete nobodies before Metal Slug
stupid gay is stupid and a gay, more at 11
>Indie games have better tech and bigger budgets
Undertale had a budget of precisely $51,124 USD.
Indies can't be slop you retard. Of course buzzword-spouting morons like you don't know what those buzzwords even mean.
>indies cant be slop
Theres plenty of indie horror slop out there anon
How can it not be slop? Explain to me.
I'm seriously starting to get Gankertard fatigue.
>Indies can't be slop
How about indiepoz?
Yes they can. There's dozens of hundreds of asset flips or clones of better more successful indies. "Indieslop" might not be a term that's palatable for you but the concept it embodies is absolutely real.
>Indies can't be slop you retard.
>arrrhg hueg studios just like today
>its vwery hard :(( u idiott
literally just like 3-4 dudes doing most the real work
>why doesn't every game have the same art style????
>game made by 2-3 people max doesn't look as good as a game made by an actual full team of devs
>full team of devs
metal slug was made by less than 10 people
Maybe you should dunk on every other retro game for failing to look as good as Metal Slug. Clearly that team was exceptional.
There are dozens if not hundreds of great looking console and arcade games from small teams <10 people moron. Modern indie devs are just lazy and lack drive. Look at something like Cuphead, primarily done by two people who actually had pride and devotion to what they were doing and it looks better than any other indie by a mile.
indie games are risk business, we are talking about two dudes risking three or four years of their life in a project that might not make a single penny. take in consideration they might also have families, and you can see why they would cut corners everywhere.
>you can see why they would cut corners everywhere
And that's exactly why nobody buys their shit.
You weren't going to buy shit anyways moron your kind just pirate and want the death of the west.
It's about passion, designing a game people would love and that you really want to make, not about greed. As soon as you become focused on the money your game becomes soulless goyslop
greed? fuckers have the survive out there, most indie games on steam makes less than 4000 dollars, now imagine working three years for that.
Passion does not pay the bills.
some people think indie devs are making millions, while 99% of them are barely going by.
Out of tens of thousands of retro games you spotlight only "There are dozens if not hundreds" but turn around and demand that every indie game look like Metal Slug or Cuphead? Also there are dozens if not hundreds of great looking indie or modern 2D games too but keep using that Undertale pic to compare to Metal Slug.
Yeah, and it literally look years to come out with just the dlc because they refused to compromise on quality.
>10
nazca had 13 people on it
some indie games do surpass retro games
>b-b-b-but I don't like them
that's because you, my friend, are a contrarian sourpuss and a tremendous gay
BECASUE TIS MADE BY PROFESSIONALS OK?
IT DOESNT MATTER THAT IM A TALENTLESS HACK THAT STOLE MOST OF THE SPRITES
ITS A DEV TEAM AND IM LE ALONE
>repeat statement but make it le silly
any actual counter-arguments, champ?
didn't think so. I accept your concession.
Steal better looking sprites?
I'll steal your mom's sprites
>o-one person couldn't possibly do it alone
Talentless hacks.
Undertales boss fights are more time consuming to make then whatever weeb shit this is
Of course it's time consuming when you can't do jack shit.
Glad we agree
that one was animated by the dude who did sf3 animations
sauce
But doesn't Undertale take inspiration from Earthbound? What does Metal Slug have anything to do with this?
Look at the sprites from a big company that went bankrupt doing sprites versus the indie game made by a dude that can't do spritework and some of his friends. The meaning should be obvious :^)
Undertale isn't sprite based because it wants to look retro, it's sprite based because Toby Fox can't draw for shit
And the game still has a very distinct, recognizable look and a memorable cast of characters. You cannot tell me the battle sequence spritework and animations are not good.
Also you're correct that some solo poorfag working on a game he wanted to make cannot produce pixel art of the same caliber as professional artist. What he made, however, was more than sufficient. All of you people whining about muh graphics continually get btfo by gameplaychads and it's not even close.
Homofox's Tumblrtale trash is literally the queerest shit ever made. Fuck Tumblrtale.
Come back with an argument.
is right. A they/them protagonist is very queer and a sign of a shit game. It's also very Tumblr which is another sign of it being the queerest shit.
Well most have old games have a large team of experienced graphics designers who had been making pixel games for years along with a team of experienced programmers, Indie games on the other hand are generally made by small groups of inexperienced amateurs who have not really had much experiences making sprites let alone games
High budget game is high budget for a reason.
Toby Fox should just hire actually competent sprite artists.
why hire someone when you can use Earthbound sprites?
Soul Vs Soulless
>left gets the job done and doesn't overdo things
>right is too showy and downright ugly in the case of monster kid
left looks like a 5 year old made it
not even an earthbound clone that it desperately wanted to be, more like a downgrade
simple =/= soulful in pixel art
its just lazy, but whoever made backgrounds was quite good
>pic related
>bouncinghatmario.gif
toby fox sprite work is quite bad.
and these animations don't even feature sub pixel animation.
holy shit i wanna fuck monster kid so bad
same..
>increasing the dimensions of the sprites
Why cheat? If they're such bad sprites it should be easy to improve them without changing their width and height (in pixels)
post the mario gif
Indie games use pixel art because they either don't have the skills or time to do better
>team of talented individuals
vs
>one furry sitting on a dildo daydreaming about being a sissy
Isn't one made by an entire studio where the other is made by mainly one person with some outside help? Try a little harder if you want people to take your troll attempt seriously
meanwhile at nintend*
What's the middle game under Blasphemous
https://store.steampowered.com/app/600130/Valfaris/
Valfaris, a kind of sequel to Slain.
It's a pretty fun run n gun.
Huh, why is Blasphemous guy in Bloodstained?
There were some Bloodstained crossover DLC challenges, hard as nails too. The sad thing is that it just shows how great Bloodstained would have looked in proper pixel art. Hopefully they figure out a better artstyle for the sequel..
??? hollow knight is the best metroidvania ever made
Did undertale take inspiration from metal slug?
Also, hasn't undertale out sold metal slug at this point? Its definitely far more relevant than that dead series.
so you're comparing metal slug to undertale? hahahahaha well here you go, here's my reply
Metal Slug is a god tier pixel art game, to this day is at least in the top 10 best looking pixel art games easily.
i'm trying to get something that high quality retro, but no matter how much i work on it, it still fells far away.
maybe don't use pixelshit filter on 3d models and work on those 2d sprites one pixel at a time
>3D models
everything in that scene with the exception of the far background is a sprite.
Prove it.
and even then the background are just squares with textures on top of them.
let me fucking know the name of this game youre shilling already
look up for Ghost Hand.
i doubt you'd be able to find a single 2D game from the PS1 era that looks as bad as the average 2D indie game today
and indie devs today have access to much better software and hardware that makes development much easier and faster
>I bet if you look at the era where 95% of devs moved to 3D leaving only a handful of the best pixel artists to still make 2D games and then compare it to the current average...
What a dumb fucking post. Also
>and indie devs today have access to much better software and hardware that makes development much easier and faster
Those are not a replacement for artistic talent, they just help said talent make better games, like Cuphead. Most movies still suck advanced CGI didn't change that either.
team of less than 5 working whenever they want to vs. organized studio of 20+ employees
>Nazca Corp
>organized studio of 20+ employees
dumb zoomie
It really isn’t any easier to make pixel art nowadays than 20-30 years ago. Technology doesn’t replace artistic talent.
>retro game (1988)
>made on the modern day equivalent of a calculator
Because you're dishonest gay who making bait threads all day.
At the end of the day, even good indies are just mere copies of the better games that inspired them.
Most retro games are just copying other retro games with a change or two. Turns out there is not infinite new ideas on how to make a game on a 2D plain, that is why most retro games fit pretty nicely into a handful of genre's.
>all indie games are pixel trash
I really do not understand the mindset of "It's either AAA games or pixel trash!"
>why does this game made by one person have fewer assets that require time and man-hours to produce than this other game made by a company that had investors backing it with a couple million dollars
I don't know OP, it sure is a mystery.
?t=83
metal slug credits
>"full dev team" according to Ganker
?t=135
sifu credits
>"indie game" with 1-2 devs according to Ganker
Why didn't you post the undertale credits you disingenuous fuck?
because when the 1ma doesn't have an artist it does what it can
3D indie games also look like shit and get btfo by pretty much any game from the PS2 era
>90% of retro games suck ass and are not played nor remembered today.
shut the fuck up retard ass zoomer, you haven't even played these games. Many of them still have large communities and regular players today including me.
You obsessing over shitty old games because their "classics" doesn't make them better than shitty new games. A small % of old 2D games are great, a small % of modern 2D games are great, this is how it has always been.
Pull up a catalog of NES, SNES and Genesis games and take a look how much trash there is in there. Now remember that they needed the backing of a company that could afford to buy and ship physical cartridges around the world while with indie games on download shops there is no skill floor.
Retro games are better on average and overall quantity total than modern goyslop. Seethe about it zoomie.
indie games cost less than retro games did when they were new
false
>one google search
>most SNES games were 60 dollars on release
>open steam and search indie tag, relevant first
>prices range from about 30 dollars for larger indie games with full 3D graphics to about 10 dollars for pixel games
wow that was hard to disprove thanks anon kun for being a fucking drooling retard I hope you get raped by rabid morons.
cost to make not cost to buy a copy as a consumer you stupid fucking retard
Nobody said anything about development costs in that entire chain of replies you dog cock sucking fucking retard I hope your mother gets cancer.
The whole discussion was about dev costs you fucking birdbrained imbecile.
I'd wager just the retro games you remember are better than the modern games you're thinking of. Sure there was a higher level of passion so proportionally more effort went into things but it was also the era of experimentation, finding what works and what doesn't. There's a ton of shit games from bad designers who had no idea what was actually fun. Not to mention shitty tie-in licensed titles that only really died with the advent of mobile gaming. As many well-cherised old titles as there are, there are plenty of infamously bad games as well.
>t. zoomers in their teens
go play your indie goyslop and fuck off.
>Retro games are better on average and overall quantity total than modern goyslop. Seethe about it zoomie.
Of course they are dumbass, the average for indie games is dragged down because anyone can upload shovelware to a DL service like Steam while the minimum skill floor of developing a retro game is again "the backing of a company that could afford to buy and ship physical cartridges". That doesn't change the fact that there are a ton of serious small studio's that put out great looking and playing modern 2D games. Just about any modern 2D game that does well enough to get a physical release is already better than the average retro game and often up there with the best of them.
I had the Devs commenting of ender lilies commenting on some of my twitter post a while ago, it felt really good.
>how is this game that is made by at most two people not at the same graphical fidelity as a game made by a, at the time, major studio with lots of very talented artists, money, and outsourcing capabilities
Gee, moron, it's almost like this is the most loaded question of all time.
play Afterimage
I did. It's honestly not that great, looks very pretty but actually plays quite boring. I quit halfway through the resting path.
>I quit halfway through the resting path.
Bro that's not even 1 hour into the game
>indie game (brazil)
Undertale was probably more famous and more financially successful than Metal Slug to be honest. I mean I love Metal Slug, it's fun as fuck, it's got great pixel art and lots of exciting moments stymied slightly by the fact it's designed entirely around eating money until you basically memorise every enemy spawn and boss pattern so you stop getting cornholed by enemies you couldn't see coming or rapid 180's in boss design meant to catch you off guard. But Undertale had a much more engaging story and Metal Slug doesn't really have much of a story, not one you actively engage with. You're just one of however many soldiers de jour and you plow through levels until you win. But an engaging and interesting story doesn't have to be all that expensive and relatively speaking what Tubby Fucks and Temmie saved on graphics Undertale couldn't have been that expensive and sold millions of copies. It'd be interesting to see an actual, inflation adjusted, chart of how much money both games series, Metal Slug as a whole and Undertale/Deltarune, have made versus their development costs.
Because indie games are made by ameturs, theres a wave of devs quitting the aaa space now though so you might get some nice indies.
They have, you just don't like it because it's not Japanese enough for you.
Play Afterimage if you like Ender Lilies and Hollow Knight
You're cherry picking. Metal Slug is a beacon of 2D sprite based games.
Depends on where you look
for one, undertale wasn't taking inspiration from metal slug
Even pre-1985 Famicom games had budgets of at least $1M (+inflation) to meet Nintendo's quality standards. Metal Slug is a thirty minute arcade game that still cost $350K (+inf) with legacy developers tasked with pushing then-six year old MVG hardware to create something that could compete with Donkey Kong Country and Doom.
That said, $10 games like Dead Cells, BroForce, Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP, Blasphemous, and Slipstream almost match high-end MVG1 graphics, and those are just off hand examples.