>you can be a pro-eugenics catgirl
>you can be a fascist with a huge flamethrower
>you can be a space trucker with a massive chainsaw
>you can be a cultist who sets other mechs' computers on fire
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if i wanted to play sjw mekton id just play mekton with some sjws
It's a poorly made video game masquerading as a TTRPG.
I like it but I struggle to design maps that size 2 or bigger mechs can navigate well.
COMP/CON does make it feel like the whole thing could be done in an ASCII game.
friend of mine actually just ran a game of it for us recently. I was pretty much the only player who liked it.
it's a fun little skirmish game with cool mechs, but I don't see myself being able to play it long term
Isn't it 4e dnd with extra bits? Not sure I'm in to that.
Basically, yeah.but hardcode some liberal politics into it too.
Only if you feel like reading the hundreds of pages of worthless lore that are full of all of Abbadon's gaygiest tendencies to say a ton of shit while saying nothing at all.
is there anything there with Abbadons crypto slob/fat fetish?
just his not-very-secret fat art account.
>2ez
Because I'd much rather use gurps for all that.
The setting is neat but the rules are dogshit that only someone who loved 4e could come up with.
I like the rules but the setting insists on focusing on shit no one cares about over the shit that gets you killing people in a mech.
This is what sells when the majority of the people buying the game are nogame redditors who only want to display the book on their shelves.
I've played the game before but in all honesty you have to do so much of your own work to set shit up because the setting book will ramble about how Harrison has a super duper secret fort with super AIs that helps them research cool robots but give you dick all about characters you could interact with or places you could have mech fights on.
>Why haven't you learned Lancer yet, anon?
I found the art to be really unpleasant. I didn't read the lore so that wasn't an issue for me, but when I started reading into the mecha foundries and came across Horus I gave up. I really dislike the theme of Horus as the paracasual juggalos they are. I also did not care for the printers and lack of a money system or even a salvage system. I really enjoy running games where my players start off and stay underfunded for a majority of the game and have to come up with ways around lack of money but the system doesn't really let you do that. One day I'll give it another read but nothing about it really hooked me.
>but when I started reading into the mecha foundries and came across Horus I gave up. I really dislike the theme of Horus as the paracasual juggalos they are.
Absolute gay
HORUS by far got the sexiest mechs and they got fun fluff since they're basically /x/-but-competent with a bunch of GitS mixed in
There is absolutely nothing sexy about anything Abaddon has ever drawn, and paracausality is badly ripped off from fricking Destiny.
>implying destiny invented it
>implying destiny got ANYTHING original AT ALL
Frick off destinygay tertiary
You're just as much of a laughing stock here as you are in the cesspool that is 40kg
I'm almost certainly not the anon you're thinking of, but no one is going to argue that Destiny invented the concept of space magic. Nor do I like Destiny.
There's a very good chance the name was stolen from there though.
>Destiny invented the concept of space magic
I will argue that, space magic is basic b***h as frick and gorillions of Sci-fi and Sci-fantasy franchises from Star Wars to Star Control have done it.
Did you not read the post correctly. I literally said exactly that.
He's a lancershill, they can barely read at all.
I am mildly drunk and ready to pick fights on the internet with anyone, anywhere.
Or I will give you compliments. Anything is possible.
I think your hair looks really nice today. Also, that shirt suits you!
>Absolute gay
>HORUS by far got the sexiest mechs and they got fun fluff since they're basically /x/-but-competent with a bunch of GitS mixed in
Just rolled my eyes so hard they fell out. Horus is boring and doesn't match with Harrison or the others. It stands out too much. If the other factions had more paracasual stuff then it'd be better, but as it is I don't really care for the /x/ shit and just wanted some tactical gameplay with cool mecha.
Honestly, it's tragic such a sick-ass universe is so pozzed. I love the concept of customizing mechs to reflect the pilot, but all I see folks talk about it how the core rules and art are so trans-friendly.
It's the redditor's mecha game, and it shows.
I don't know why people measure wokeness as like "does it have LGBT people in it or not". You figure the mecha genre having many anti-war and anti-capitalist works in it would make it more substantively left-wing than if a work has the milquetoast centrist opinion of accepting people that wanna frick the same sex or dress as the opposite sex.
There is no reason for trans people to exist given the medical technology of the setting. If you're born with the mental illness that creates gender dysphoria, you can literally just have a sex-swapped body cloned and your mind uploaded into it. Yet the canon art still fetishizes the aesthetics of the Olympia WA trans pride parade.
They would still be transgender as they have transitioned to a gender other than the one assigned to them at birth. I also don't know why people say this about sci-fi/fantasy settings where sex changes are quick and easy; being trans would indeed be more normalized because of this, but assuming that around ~1% of people have gender dysphoria, its still an uncommon category to be in and one would still stand out if they were originally a dude and then one day they walk into the office double-cheeked up on a Thursday afternoon.
The reason as transgenderism exists is because sex change is impossible.
They're still transgender by definition due to taking on a gender identity different than the one they were given at birth, the efficacy of treatment is irrelevant. If someone with a male gender identity were to be chucked into the LANCER gender bender pods or whatever they have and given the body of a 10/10 gorgeous babe with no alterations to the brain, do you think they would be pleased with this turn of events?
>I also hate how you basically cannot build your own robots
I don't know why you're b***hing as though its a mecha genre standard that everyone builds their mech part by part. Your average Gundam pilot is in a mass produced suit or, alternatively, in an experimental suit. People make modifications to the suits a la how LANCER does it (adding grappling hooks or more armor plating or a new integrated weapon), but no one is like "uhhh lemme get Zaku legs, a Dom body, Gouf arms, and frick it lets get a Gelgoog head to top things off"
>I don't know why you're b***hing as though its a mecha genre standard that everyone builds their mech part by part. Your average Gundam pilot is in a mass produced suit or
See, there it is again. moron.
It is a fricking ttrpg. It's not about how "real" it is you fricking spaz. On a meta, game mechanics level, you should be able to make your own just as you make your own character.
That means that even if ZABU 12 is a mass produced unit that existed 50 years before the protag was born and every single one of them is the same, my group - as players - should be able to create this robot at character creation, and then retroactively insert it into the story as THEIR robot.
On the opposite, even if this is some one of a kind super robot built by hyperboreans 12,000 years ago, the group should still be able to build it before the campaign starts so it can be THEIR robot even if in-universe it is more ancient then their pc.
Regardless, this whole line of thought begs the question why you - as a fricking ttrpg designer - would not just add mecha building to your setting for the sake of making a fun fricking game that has engaging mechanics. Armored Core is a vidya, a genre where building a character is a lot more limited by the nature of the medium, it still manages to let you build your own fricking robot because it's FUN from a GAME perspective.
I am failing to see what you are rambling about is not achieved by taking your various frames in LANCER and using your license points to buy various parts that will then be integrated within the frame of your vessel. The whole point of the game is that you eventually wind up with weird shit like a Vlad that has integrated within itself the nanite technology of a Balor or an unholy fusion of a Drake with the drone warfare package of a Hydra.
>No, a mecha game should have good on-foot rules and mechanics because you need them for a sense of scale and catharsis when the giant robots come out.
Please, Armored Core never needed that shit.
> about is not achieved by taking your various frames in LANCER and using your license points to buy various parts that will then be integrated within the frame of your vessel
Because on a mechanical level you are still just tweaking and adding shit to a pre-made sheet for Abby's super special oc's.
>Please, Armored Core never needed that shit.
Don't act like your an AC fan, secondary. But that's not comparable at all. AC is a video game, its gameplay already simulates the weight of mech action. Zone of The Enders doesn't have out of mech stuff either, but again, it doesn't need it because it's a vidya that already has several mechanics to capture the feel of mech combat.
A TTRPG is different. It is much more equivalent to a mecha SHOW because you are telling a story with characters and a variety of situations and scenarios to role play and mechanically act through, and every mecha show you can name has tons of out of mech combat, action, problems to resolve, etc.
Not only that but because you are playing with pen and paper and you need mechanics and aspects to represent and flavor the sense of scale to the action. If you don't, you might as well just refluff frickin' d&d or some shit.
>ur jest RAMBLIN
I accept your concession.
>Armored Core never needed that shit.
Nta but the briefings are critical to AC6's immersion and worldbuilding. Additionally the fact that 621 drifts from mission to mission with no real visible rest or downtime paints a much grimmer picture than if there was some sort of social hub or a named, faced 621. Its omission is intentional.
>I accept your concession.
Ugh, everyone on this board talks like a debate club nerd. This is Ganker! Just call me a homosexual, come on, its more dignified than you doing the equivalent of adjusting your glasses and going, "Erm, by debate rules, you've just done the Fisherman's Gambit Fallacy, therefore I win."
>Nta but the briefings are critical to AC6's immersion and worldbuilding. Additionally the fact that 621 drifts from mission to mission with no real visible rest or downtime paints a much grimmer picture than if there was some sort of social hub or a named, faced 621. Its omission is intentional.
Are people playing LANCER without mission briefings and a broader context for their actions? I don't think so, judging from the example missions in Dustgrave and Solstice Rain.
>Just call me a homosexual
I accept your concession
>Are people playing LANCER without mission briefings and a broader context for their actions?
Way to dodge the point.
>Your average Gundam pilot is in a mass produced suit or, alternatively, in an experimental suit.
Nta but there's a huge difference narrative mass production and not getting to convey your character's personality via their mech. Just in OG Gundam alone you've got
>the Gundam, which is a wild card that gets better as it's internal AI learns more
Sounds a lot like Amuro, don't you think?
>The Guntank, which boasts heavy firepower but lacks maneuverability
Once again a reflection of the pilot
>the Guncannon, which is a bit of a midpoint between Gundam and Guntank and serves best in an ambushing role
And its pilot is a weedy bastard who thinks about how to keep himself safe above all else. Sensing a pattern yet?
Hell, even the villains who matter all get their own unique mobile suits too
>Char's Zaku
>Remba Ral's Gouf
>even Garma had his special Gaw
Furthermore, as the other anon pointed out, you're supposed to be playing cyberpunk mercenary freeLANCERs, being beholden to corporate standard frames is pathetic.
>cites Gundam, a series where on foot encounters are as plentiful and vital as in-mech encounters, for why you shouldn't need robust mech rules
>cites Armored Core, a series all about autistically tweaking your modular mech to peak performance, for why you don't need robust on-foot rules
So you want a mech game with bad mech rules (because mecha don't matter) and bad on-foot rules (because pilots don't matter)?
I guess Lancer really is the perfect game for you and every other person who hates mecha but wants to pretend it's "their vibe" or whatever.
>do you think they would be pleased with this turn of events?
Most trannies are basically just lonely porn addicts who got tricked into thinking their autogynephelia was anything more than a fetish, so honestly in the short term...yeah, probably.
>They're still transgender by definition due to taking on a gender identity different than the one they were given at birth
But the definition in the Journal of Diagnostic Medicine, the only definition that matters, is that to be transgender is to have a gender identity that does not match your physical sex. Assigned at birth terminology has no bearing on that. The tech of the Lancer setting makes it literally take a couple days to make your physical sex match your gender identity.
They would have transitioned, but they wouldn't be transgender. Transgenderism is that disconnect of the mental illness demanding a certain body configuration but the genes not allowing it. Lancer's setting makes it trivial to adjust the genes, so anyone who would have that illness could have it cured right quick. Due to how quick, easy, and cheap that sort of thing is in the setting there is no reason to develop an identity surrounding it. Pride events don't happen for normal people.
>ACKshully mecha is left wing and always has been u gaiz!!!!
Why do communist troons ALWAYS try to pull the retcon bullshit with whatever new hobby or genre they attempt to infest? Tomino has gone on record lecturing his artists and telling them to make sure that a female character had a lively enough pussy, because it would reflect poorly on Char if he was fricking "a sad, boring pussy".
Mecha is not the leftist SJW paradise you want to paint it as and it never will be.
The left is not anti war Anon, don't be silly.
>such a sick-ass universe
What do you even like about it? I can't think of a single worldbuilding element that isn't either complete trash or just a shittier execution of something else.
nta but I really like HORUS as a concept and aesthetic, and they also have the most interesting mechs
HORUS is literally LITERALLY just Rasputin from Destiny, lifted more or less wholesale but without his cantankerous isolationist Russian demeanor and fondness for ballet, i.e. some of the best aspects of his character
The large group of hacker cultists HORUS is literally the same as one AI from a different game?
I think you mean RA? Who is only connected to Horus in that some of the Horus cells see it as a machine god and worship it as such. Like most actual named NPCs, RA itself doesn't really have much characterization besides an implied sense of superiority to humans.
I see a lot of people b***h about the lack of characterization in the few named NPCs, but honestly I kind of dig that. It leaves the DM open to play them however they want without one of the players coming out with UM AKSHYULLY IN THIS SIDEBAR OF THIS BOOK IT SAYS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO TALK WITH A LISP
>honestly I kind of dig that. It leaves the DM open
It's much better for a TRPG to have content that you can ignore than not have content that you may or may not have to make up yourself.
If you don't care for that, good for you, but don't present it as a positive, please.
That being said, Lancer has a free version which I've read and some "Barony" stuff that's supposed to be full of lore and people but is also paywalled. Maybe if you pay, you get more content, in which case, yeah, I get it.
>trans
I believe the correct term is “troony”.
I don't like d20+half your level.
I especially don't like Abbadon's "the narrative and combat are like heaven and earth never to interact".
>The way the mech was actually designed has no bearing on the mechanics, you just choose a brand and get some MOBA-like abilities
Not what I expect from a mecha game.
I also hate that about 80% of the mechs just look like power armor
I don't mind how the mechs look in the book, I mind how a giant cargopede-like hexapod gets damaged in the same way as a human-like bipod when you fire a rocket to hit a leg.
I get why is this a case, but I'm not picking a mech game to not have nuance like that.
Literally every part of that piece looks awful. Every single one. Given the composition and its detail, that is a remarkable feat in itself.
>because it's shit
>it's also cancer
>it's gay as frick too
>everyone is an obese mystery meat muttblob (players and PCs alike)
>the mechs are canonically worthless in Lancer and only exist "for moral purposes"
>the art sucks too
Plus I've already done all of those things in vastly superior systems.
Another low-quality skirmish wargame pretending to be an RPG so people are willing to paper over the terrible gameplay, and don't have to worry about winners and losers? Why choose this one over the others?
Oh yeah I forgot to mention this too. Calling the game a TTRPG feels like borderline false advertising. 99% of the mechanics are in the fiddly clunky hex based grid battle system. Rules for doing anything outside of combat are so embarrassingly lite and shallow and tacked on that they might as well not exist. It's a wargame pretending to be a rpg.
>"b-buh that's good! A mecha game should focus on the mecha!"
No, a mecha game should have good on-foot rules and mechanics because you need them for a sense of scale and catharsis when the giant robots come out. Haven't you ever watched a super robot sho-oh right Lancer fans have never watched any anime.
Source on that kit? I need it to fuel my plastic crack addiction.
It's the player mecha from an old nes action game, found it on a japanese site dedicated to models of retro gaming space ships and mecha.
https://isytsg.wixsite.com/13b-models/metalstorm
Not sure where you can find a model kit of it!
Even if it existed and I had it, I would not share it, because gobbos are BAD civilization.
>Not sure where you can find a model kit of it!
Damn, and here I thought a Lancer thread would actually provide something of worth to a mecha fan for once. Thanks anyways, the site will be a fun peruse at least!
I gave Lancer an honest shot to see if there was at the very least anything worth stealing if I run mecha in something else, but I thought it was complete trash.
The setting is 0/10, probably the worst I've ever read (goblin_shortstack_rape_quest.pdf might technically be worse but a payed product with I find this more offensive), a clusterfrick of purple prose and "hard sci-fi" gibberish that constantly contradicts itself, gets in the way of any kind of adventure you might want to tell, and feels like it was written by a bunch of californian redditors who either never watched a mecha show or actively hate the genre. It's one of those pieces of media that actively leaves me feeling dirty.
The gameplay is 5/10 or 6/10 at best. It's very generic, and totally lacks any innovation or flavor. It feels like someone took some generic d&d fightman system (4e is often a comparison for the crunchiness, or Shadow of The Demon Lord due to the action system, but the base feels even more generic) and stapled a bunch of "mech-isms" onto it haphazardly (some being sacred cows from other games, IE heat and armor points from Battletech are here but in a way that's 200% less interesting and coherent). The result is a system that feels very clunky and inelegant and - until you get to grips with it and automate half the fricking numbers - and pretty slow, and doesn't really have any crazy interesting ideas or mechanical to compensate (I am spoiled by JTTRPG's for innovation and flavor). I feel like I'd rather be playing an actual generic D&D fightman system and refluffing it to be giant robots instead of elves and rangers because that's already what Lancer feels like but with a lot of extra baggage.
I also hate how you basically cannot build your own robots (ala Mekton) but instead basically get to tweak Abby's super special oc mecha (who look more like guys in suits than actual robots, also like sketchy garish shit). Mecha are characters in themselves so regardless of how "real robot" your game is supposed to be thematically, you should on a meta ttrpg gameplay level be able to create them from scratch
The grand irony is also that Armored Core is a frickin' video that deals with many of the same themes as Lancer (gritty mecha action, cyberpunk, corpo wars, etc.) but not shitty AND despite all that it still lets you build your own robots piece by piece.
Anyway next time I'm running a mecha game I'm probably going to use Genesys (I think the advantage/setback dice are probably perfect for simulating things like part damage and environmental destruction while keeping things fast paced, and the vehicle rules are also excellent), or Princess Wing now that it's translated (mecha musume game but the part based armor system and card system looks excellent for mecha action).
can you link me goblin_shortstack_rape_quest.pdf? I tried googling but couldn't find it.
>payed
I mean I didn't pay for it myself but the fact that people asked money for such a trashfire is way more offensive than if it was an ominous pdf I downloaded from a random /tg/ thread.
Your ESL is showing. The second and third form of "pay" is "paid".
"Payed" means "covered with tar".
I don't care enough about this thread to double check my posts, so I'm probably leaving a lot of typos in. I'm not ESL.
> it’s good for an eye-roll now and then, not massive seething
Unironically I seethe more about it from a mecha perspective. If your a mecha fan the games lore feels really insulting.
>However, saying it’s not supposed to be a TTRPG is just wrong. Light skirmish war games don’t come with hundreds of pages on how the government and economy work and different political factions, character progression and leveling up, and supplements to describe regions and history, adventure modules and pre-made campaigns.
Considering how hefty BattleTech is, this is moronic. Being a ttrpg vs a wargame is about the mechanics, not about the level of world building.
Campaigns are something that started with war games too, and you can in fact do them in wargames, but that's another point I'm not going to autistically argue about.
>BattleTech
A. One exception does not disprove my point
B. BattleTech keeps its RPG and wargame separate. Why couldn’t Lancer make a really good war game first, then make an RPG
>campaigns started with war games
I know, but it’s not 1970 anymore
>One exception does not disprove my point
Warhammer.
> BattleTech keeps its RPG and wargame separate
It started as a wargame, just like warhammer.
There is literally no reason that a game should be considered an "RPG" just because it has an in-depth setting. Again, it's about the mechanics. A pure wargame can absolutely have pages of supplemental fiction fleshing out its setting and worldbuilding, this has nothing to do with how you actually play it.
>I know, but it’s not 1970 anymore
People still do them. I'm in a Battletech campaign with some lite rp'ing in between missions.
Fair enough, you got me there; I'll concede that wargames can have that much fluff. I still stand by my point that Lancer was intended to be an RPG, and you can tell by the existence of things like the levdeling rules. Not to mention their own blurb:
>Lancer is a mud-and-lasers RPG about mechs and the pilots who crew them, featuring deep narrative play, gritty tactical combat and broad customization.
>RPG
>deep narrative play
If you have fun playing it as a little fighting game, that's cool. Just don't be disingenuous and claim that's what the game is supposed to be
That's why I often say the game feels like false advertising. In reality I think that the guys just kind of suck as ttrpg designers and didn't really know how to do anything other than combat in a meaningful way. So feeling like a wargame in disguise is true and a real criticism but probably unintentional.
Looks like asiaticslop.
Honest thoughts from learning and playing the system
>Whole thing is un-fricking-playable without Comp/Con and a VTT to manage the process, and even then, it's not even half as functional as it needs to be
>the layout of the book is abysmal and doesn't seem to care because they just expect Comp/Con to handle juggling all the different little moves anyways.
>player characters are bland as frick and the basic mechanics of handling out-of-mech gameplay feels like less of an afterthought and more like the bitter grumblings of the game designer saying "Fine, frick you, here you go! There's your fricking pilot rules, you fricking idiots!"
>lol you can get killed a fricktillion times and it doesn't matter because you can just get cloned anyways because it's the super future, shut up and do more battles
>The basic structure of the game doesn't even feel like it wants to tell a story, but the 150 pages of lore in the book want to pretend there's a cohesive, explorable setting waiting for you
>but lol every session is "drop in, kill X amount of bad guys. Congrats you've leveled up. Pick new mech stuff. New mission next week"
>GM advice for running is literally just a few pages of mission templates with vague zones and suggestions for how many enemies to drop in
The way I see people talk about Lancer reminds me of the way I've seen people talk up their almost screw-the-rules, almost entirely soft roleplay D&D games, where they gush over all these super cool things they did because their DM just made up a bunch of shit on the spot. Lancer is written with an open contempt for roleplay and I see people talking about how their half-catgirl-half-NHP android Lancer pilot with swords for legs got into this wild adventure and had sassy, quippy interactions with everyone at the table, and big emotional scenes where PC 1 and PC 2 cried about the horrors of capitalism or whatever. And that's just not how the game plays unless you decide to do that purposefully.
thing is un-fricking-playable without Comp/Con and a VTT to manage the process, and even then, it's not even half as functional as it needs to be
Skill issue.
I don't think its at all communist or whatever you wish to pretend I'm saying, I just think that being against capitalism (a la your Armored Cores or Gundam Witches) and/or anti-war (most Gundams) is more important to leftism than whatever it is you're rambling about. Ok, great, Tomino is horny and wants to know if Char can lay pipe, good to know, he's still a bleeding heart for hating war.
>Skill issue.
nta but the game is legit fricking clunky as shit. Between this and Icon sometimes I think Abby does not know the difference between vidya srpg design and ttrpg design. He seems to not understand the concept that the latter needs to cut down on book-keeping and busywork that would otherwise be handled by a computer when possible.
Granted I enjoy playing Battletech in Megamek where the clusterfrick of advanced rules in that game are handled by the program, but Battletech actually has interesting and flavorful mech mechanic (heat is actually interesting, the tank controls of turning and positioning is way more flavorful and interesting, the damage rules are explosive and fun rather than tedious, etc.)
>and/or anti-war (most Gundams)
Gundam didn't become anti-war till around the late 90's or 00's when it started being written by zoomers who didn't know anything about war.
As a friend put it, classic Gundam is more like "yeah war is miserable and it sucks but sometimes you have to get in the robot and fricking kill people".
>There's nothing cool about it," [Tomino] said. "After all, war must not happen. However, unfortunately we will never be rid of war thanks to the delusions of those who yearn for it."
Seems like a more definitive statement on it than "well sometimes you have to murder people in a robot, its the ONLY WAY."
>lefties
>US presidents
lol
>unfortunately we will never be rid of war
Pretty fricking definitive statement about the necessity of defending oneself against warmongers if you have more than two brain cells to rub together
You can be anti-war without being a pacifist. Gundamn isn't pacifist and nobody said it was, but it's definitely anti-war.
By that definition almost everyone is anti-war. Very few people genuinely want to go get bayonetted to death in a trench for funsies.
Gundam just has a nuanced view of war, viewing it as a tragic but a unavoidable part of the human condition. It's not until later AU's written by morons like Wing or Sneed that you start getting to messianic heroes who nonlethally shoot everyone down without killing them.
>almost everyone is anti-war
In your limited frame, maybe. Framing every single conflict as defensive action is a very modern way of thinking. There are people who genuinely enjoy war, or think it's worth doing for the spoils.
Tomino grew up in Japan, which launched a massive war of unprovoked conquest that ended with two nukes being dropped on it. Tomino was born during that war. It isn't ancient history to him.
The people who declare wars and issue orders that lead to countless people being killed rarely ever die in the wars they start.
>Framing every single conflict as defensive action is a very modern way of thinking
Non-sequitur. Name a mecha show that is pro war. Hard mode: you actually watched it.
>Tomino was born during that war. It isn't ancient history to him.
Yes, which is why 0079 is enduring for its nuanced view. It's later zoomer writers who did not grow up in a period where they could actually sit down and talk with vets that you start getting into absurd moral posturing where Kira shoots down a million people (non lethally) and then cries and lectures everyone.
>Non-sequitur. Name a mecha show that is pro war. Hard mode: you actually watched it.
Not a show but Lancer is pro-war. The protagonists are trying to bring the chud holdout separatist worlds to heel and force them under the government of galactic space communism.
That's not aggression, that's liberation. Rogue states have no right to self determination.
Sadly some leftist psychopaths actually think this way and have the nerve to pretend their ideology is 'anti-imperialist'.
>Non-sequitur. Name a mecha show that is pro war. Hard mode: you actually watched it.
ENTER
it's an adaptation of the book which shows war as something to be avoided whenever possible but not to be completely ignored as an option. It's not very fascist either, more like one of those democracies with mandatory military service
>Very few people genuinely want to go get bayonetted to death in a trench for funsies.
See, that's where you're wrong, because plenty of people are cowardly hypocrites. Lots of people are absolutely pro-war in that they want the government to do war, and see it as an entirely reasonable extension of politics by other means, they just don't want to personally do the fighting and get mad when you remind that it's actual people dying in those trenches.
These are usually the same types that say "support our troops!" and then balk at healthcare for veterans, or get mad at said veterans when they say "hey war actually kind of sucks, we shouldn't be playing in the sandpit."
There's a difference between "war shouldn't exist" and "but unfortunately it does and sometimes you need to fight"
0079 has multiple characters go through a character arc of just not wanting to fight and attempting to flee their duties, but end up returning to the war because they feel they have a moral or otherwise duty to continue fighting. This is not judged as something foolish or stupid or morally inept and that they should just continue being pacifistic: it's treated as "sucks, but it is what it is".
So what’s your definition of a “true” lefty then, cupcake? The rainbow-vomiting danger hairs the game is marketed towards? As in, the ones who routinely engage in capitalism with their rampant, China-bolstering consumerism and scream their bloodlust in support of Ukraine? Or are you talking about lefties from some third world country nobody gives a shit about?
>The rainbow-vomiting danger hairs the game is marketed towards?
Can't you talk like a normal person? It feels like I'm talking to a chat bot that has been fed on /misc/ posts and JRPG villain dialogue. Tone down the melodrama, buddy, we're just posting here.
Also no, I don't really want to get dinged for straying into IRL politics. You'll have to guess what I mean when I say that Castro is a leftist but Obama is not a leftist.
>Obama is not a leftist
nta but Obama is definitely a leftist by literally any definition or metric of the word used by almost anyone. I'm pretty sure he'd describe himself as such. This is nonsense.
NTA, but the US doesn't have a left party. At best, they have an extreme right party and a centrist party wearing a paper mask that says "leftist."
No true scotsman.
Non sequitur.
>Witch from Mercury
>anticapitalist
You didn't actually watch WfM, did you.
>Gundam
>anti-war
I stand corrected, you didn't actually watch ANY Gundam.
>You didn't actually watch WfM, did you.
I don't think WfM portrays capitalism in a positive light considering that the setting has constant civil wars provoked by private entities that has decimated Earth. The whole ending fundamentally agrees with the terrorists in that Earth should be given the resources and wealth stolen from it, hence the dissolving of the Benerit group. I suppose if you squint, the new Gund-Arm Inc. business being successful is capitalist?
Literally every single major problem in the series and setting is solved not by big robots fightan, but by Mio's good business sense. With the exception of the big gay OPEN TO INTERPRETATION rainbow beam of nonspecific OPEN TO INTERPRETATION love at the end.
It had way more to say about the inherent human greed, generational values, nature vs nurture, the fickle nature of anything ruled by mass appeal, and the evils of privileged ignorance than anything so trite as HURR, GABIDALIZMS BADDD and other inane SJWisms.
>inherent human greed, generational values, nature vs nurture, the fickle nature of anything ruled by mass appeal
Satan, that's GABADALISM BAD
Capatalism indeed bad.
No anon, it's a nuanced view on human nature rather than a shallow ideological political talking point.
I'm sorry The Big Robotical Adventures of Homotanuki and Yurifox was simply 2deep4u. Maybe try Gurren Lagann next time?
>conveniently ignores that the problems caused by capitalism (that conveniently predate capitalism but shh that would frick up our homosexualcommie narrative) are likewise solved with MORE capitalism
Whoops!
Gundam is anti-Adult, you brainlet.
>anti-war (most Gundams)
moron
Can you find me a Gundam in which those who start a war are portrayed as the good guys
pro-war =/= pro-aggressor
You're just playing word games to pretend anti-war=pacifism, and that anti-starting wars isn't anti-war because you agree with that other guy but still want to argue with him.
>You're just playing word games
Ironic
>You're just playing word games to pretend anti-war means anti-war
I refuse to believe you're so historically illiterate that you think there's been any act of military aggression in the modern era that was NOT committed under the illusion of retaliation of pre-emptive defense.
NO ONE identifies as an aggressor, not even nazis
>in the modern era
I just said that framing all wars as defensive is very modern thinking, so why are you arguing with me if you agree?
Off the top if my head: Zeta, Wing, and 00.
i more hate it because its another fricking kickstarter scam and i regret ever bringing it here
Really, I'm just surprised by how weak the anti-LANCER arguments are. The "LANCER has no custom mechs" argument was easily debunked, the b***hing about the pilot rules was easily handled by pointing out that there's mecha genre stuff that has less focus on individualistic pilot moments and on the storytelling of a mecha battle, the whining about the mechanics has never been substantive and mostly based on vibes/being bad at actually resolving things in the system.
>heh i'll just say nobody has a real argument and then I can win in my mind
>my self esteem is pinned to other's perception of this leftist reskin of D&D 4th Edition
You need to have a better argument, though. You haven't been giving me any good stuff, you've been giving me random shit like "LANCER doesn't have custom mechs" and then I go "it literally does by the definition of the rules" and you go "No, that's different from what I want". Your arguments are operating off pure solipsism based off what you personally want to see in a mech game, rather than what would be best for a mecha game intended to sell to a wider audience than just you.
>"LANCER doesn't have custom mechs" and then I go "it literally does by the definition of the rules"
The problem is not lack of custom, it's that you cannot fully build your mechs the way you would build a character in another ttrpg. You are customizing, sure, but you are basically customizing the equipment on a pre-made character sheet that has its stats, skills, and most of its abilities already set in place.
This might work in a non-mecha game that happens to have mecha in it, but not for "the mecha ttrpg".
You know you do also customize its stats right? Every frame has a starting point, but you invest in building up those starting point stats however you want whenever you level. Nothing is stopping you from investing heavily into tech actions with your giant armored tank.
Two problems:
1) This can only be done after substantial character advancement. You should not have to play multiple sessions before you start being able to make a character your own. Maybe I'm spoiled by games that have genuinely fantastic character creation, but there's no excuse for how limited your options are when you start Lancer.
2) this still falls too far into "customizing someone elses pre-made sheet". A TTRPG's character creation should be inspiring, letting players come up with their own original character ideas and express them mechanically. A system that basically asks you to take someone elses super special oc character sheet, change its equipment a bit, and finally you get to tweak the stats in a slightly different direction if you want like a jrpg character is not my idea of good ttrpg character creation or advancement.
Start lancer at LL3 or LL5, problem solved
>"c-character creation is fine if you start with 10 sessions worth of xp!"
Spotted the d&d gay.
Even this is not enough though IMO. Having a base stat spread that you then upgrade with additional points as you see fit might be fine in a game that's built around multi-classing (see: Tokyo Nova and in fact almost any Japanese TTRPG) and/or a game with more substantial skills from your classes that have the potential to substantially alter your playstyle, but I don't think Lancer offers enough of that or in the right areas.
The idea is there, you could make something vaguelly similar work. IE Princess Wing was mentioned and is arguably similar in how you start off selecting a "core", but PW's options for armament and skill customization feel more substantial than Lancer in altering your fighting style right from the word go.
NTA but I feel like you are just upset Lancer isn't what you personally like so you say it is bad. The limited customization at LL0 is so players can learn the game before delving into the complexities, most campaigns people run after their first start at LL2 or 3 which allows a vast swathe of options right from the get-go. Not to mention homebrewing a mech to your exact liking is not that hard to do.
Your second point basically implies any RPG with professions and/or classes inherently has bad character customization which is silly. There are so many frames and options you can pretty much find something like what you want and create whatever concept you have in mind. And if you can't you can homebrew. Your critique is like saying a fantasy RPG is bad if you can't RAW construct a vine-wizard who also has a pet raven who can see the future.
>b..but...but mechs are different!
Not every mech game needs to be an autistic piece by piece construction sim. If you enjoy the crunchier mech games that is A-OK but it doesn't mean LANCER has no customization or is like tweaking a premade character, that just isn't anywhere close to true.
>the game is good when you change it to be good
You used the quote function, but I'm not sure why as that doesn't resemble anything I posted. You don't need homebrew to customize your mech in several thousand permutations.
>NTA but I feel like you are just upset Lancer isn't what you personally like so you say it is bad.
Character customization is NOT my biggest complaint with the game (that's the actual combat) but I do think it's close to objectively bad.
A mecha game that doesn't let you build mecha in a more substantial and intricate way is missing the point of both ttrpg's and the appeal of mecha ("buh muh mass produce real robo-" shut up).
> The limited customization at LL0 is so players can learn the game before delving into the complexities
Having to tutorialize the game in that way is a sign of how bad the combat design is. I've played games with far more crunchy action but - not being as inelegant and clunky as Lancer - they didn't need to deprive players of actual customization at scenario 0.
>L2 or 3 which allows a vast swathe of options right from the get-go.
At L2/3 your vast swateh of options is a vast swathe of pre-made sheets to choose from that you get to swap the equipment on.
This would be less of an issue if the actual mechanics were more interesting or flavorful but you cannot escape the feeling that all this could easily be refluffed to D&D fightmen where your swapping out the bow/gun on your elf range for a sword/big sword.
>Your second point basically implies any RPG with professions and/or classes inherently has bad character customization which is sill
I think D&D fricking sucks balls.
But I think it's a bigger issue in a mecha game. Even the nerds who made GURPs knew that most real mecha fans would wanna make their own robots.
>Not every mech game needs to be an autistic piece by piece construction sim
It doesn't need to be autistic but it should still make you feel like you made your very own special robot, not playing with the writers super special oc's.
1) Blatantly false. You can do it right from character creation. You don't get a Core bonus until level 3, but you can play with the HASE right from the get go, and the number values are kept fairly small so that even a small investment in one of your stats can make a big change in play style.
2) I would grant you this except the variety of "pre-made sheets" is pretty wide at this point, and can cover just about any concept a player may come up with. I think you underestimate just how much you end up customizing things through the end of the level curve. People's mechs may start by looking similar at level 2, but by level 6 two identical frames can be doing entirely different battlefield roles based on what the player wants.
I get you might prefer being able to select specific nitty gritty parts from a big catalogue of them, but what Lancer is doing is still customization. It's an intentional design choice that the customization starts narrow and widens out. If it's not the game for you, so be it, but that on its own doesn't make it a bad game.
>1) Blatantly false. You can do it right from character creation. You don't get a Core bonus until level 3, but you can play with the HASE right from the get go, and the number values are kept fairly small so that even a small investment in one of your stats can make a big change in play style.
You literally cannot even choose a different mech at ll0.
>2) I would grant you this except the variety of "pre-made sheets" is pretty wide at this point,
Ten trillion pre-made sheets is still pre-made sheets.
> just how much you end up customizing things through the end of the level curve
You should not have to level up to make your character your own, and I'd argue that if your character isn't fundamentally your own at the core it's still not really your own with ten bajillion xp worth of add-ons.
>but what Lancer is doing is still customization
I many times said the issue isn't that there's "no" customization. There is customization, but there is not proper building. And what customization is there feels incredibly insubstantial, especially at lower levels.
>but that on its own doesn't make it a bad game.
Yes, I would literally accept it if the combat wasn't also trash and the out of mech pilot rules weren't tacked on nothings.
Your hair looks okay but you should really watch out for your body odour
Thank you for posting, the faster this thread gets to the bump limit and dies, the better.
>You literally cannot even choose a different mech at ll0.
There's three options at ll0, but that's not even what we were talking about so whatever.
>Ten trillion pre-made sheets is still pre-made sheets.
You keep bringing up Princess Wing as a better example, but it does literally the same thing, so I'm not sure why that's okay but this isn't. Because there's more variety at creation? I guess.
>You should not have to level up to make your character your own-
No character, mech, or otherwise is going to be truly unique in any game, and Lancer has enough variety in the starting equipment so that no two people's mechs, even if they're all taking the same frame, need to be identical or whatever it is you're getting at here. Making a thing your own happens on the RP side of the RPG.
>Yes, I would literally accept it if the combat wasn't also trash and the out of mech pilot rules weren't tacked on nothings
I'll give you the out of mech pilot rules are lame. It's my one real complaint with the game. I personally enjoy the combat, especially in that it seems to inspire cooperation and tactical use in my players that no other game we've played has before.
Agree to disagree.
>There's three options at ll0
Was there a new expansion? There were only 2 when I played and one of them was expansion only.
>You keep bringing up Princess Wing as a better example, but it does literally the same thing, so I'm not sure why that's okay but this isn't. Because there's more variety at creation?
Because the mechanics of the game mean that skills and armaments more radically change your fighting style.
Cores are much less all encompassing than the frames in Lancer. They are similar and comparable, but they don't give a full suite of stats and an enormous amount of customization is still allowed.
More importantly PW's core combat system is radically different (it uses playing cards instead of dice, evasion is based on sacrificing cards, and activating armaments is based on card suits that correspond to the location of the armament on your armor), Unlike Lancer, the system is designed so that a different set of armaments radically change your playstyle EVEN MORE than your core (two characters at level 0 can and will play radically different with different armaments...hell, two characters with different melee weapons are going to feel far more substantially different since each armament has its own skills attached by sacrificing cards), and that's not taking into account the skills and Wing Drives.
>No character, mech, or otherwise is going to be truly unique in any game
You've only played shit games, or you're being semantic.
>Making a thing your own happens on the RP side of the RPG.
Literally not true. My old Tokyo Nova character has a frick ton of gimmicks that I've never seen on any other character. My Nechronica character had unique dodging and combo systems that set them apart from the rest of the cast and gave me immense inspiration for flavor. etc. etc.
This is not hard. All a system needs to do is make you feel like you created something by combining options in a way that feels free and novel.
>it's bad on purpose because other thing
Yeah, sure, whatever you say bro.
>The "LANCER has no custom mechs" argument was easily debunked
Where was it debunked?
>was easily handled by pointing out that there's mecha genre stuff that has less focus on individualistic pilot
Which was debunked by pointing out those are vidya and vidya gameplay is not comparable.
>the whining about the mechanics has never been substantive and mostly based on vibes/being bad
No I played it its shit.
>le epic smug cat
>le heckin bad faith
Lancer has less mech customisation than a fricking vidya.
Problem is, you add much more customization than you have in lancer and you get into bean counting accountant simulator. That's cool for the mech enthusiasts who want a hard-core mech game, but that's not what lancer billed itself as, they intended to make a fairly lightweight "entry level" mech game, which I think they more or less succeeded in doing. My group, having never played a mech game, was able to jump from dnd over to lancer with very little trouble
>Problem is, you add much more customization than you have in lancer and you get into bean counting accountant simulat
This man has never played an actually good TTRPG.
>fairly lightweight
lmao. This is one of the clunkiest combats my group ever ran. The game is nearly unplayable in text and without the fricking website automating half the shit.
Maybe your group is just moronic?
Really, I remember having a vague sense that Infinity was often billed as a difficult to approach, heavy war game but when we played it it unironically was easier to learn and smoother to play first time than Lancer.
Mostly because Infinity's core mechanics are actually really elegant and clever and its rules and mechanics are thus super intuitive and easy to grasp, whereas in Lancer most of the mechanics feel like homebrew tacked onto a simpler game, with mechanics that are completely isolated from eachother rather than organically woven together. Like compare the way the fricking Overwatch mechanic works in Lancer to the way Infinity's Line of Sight and Reaction rules so cleverly are connected to the core action economy system.
Nah see here
See it's not that the game can't be comprehended. A game can be crunchy and complex but also smooth if its rules are actually, you know, good.
Likewise a game can have lite rules but still have you flipping through the book or players sitting at the table going "uhhhhh" if the rules are shit.
Lancer is not the most complicated game but its sloppy. It's very telling that the devs felt the desperate need to tutorialize players with having only one available mech at level 0.
Good mecha TRPGs take the "bean counting"-ness and focus it on building the mech while keeping combat relatively smooth.
Lancer blew all of its "complexity budget" on some sort of 4e-ish clunky combat and left customisation wide but shallow.
>lancergay got so BTFO he has to ignore all valid criticisms to instead pat himself on the back for being a homosexual
Lel
Are you guys going to explain what is meant by LANCER not having customization? Am I not customizing my mecha and telling a story when I combine my Tokugawa with the Vlad's integrated snaring system?
See here:
And again "not having customization" is not what I said and a strawman. The issue is mecha are characters and you can customize but not build them. A mecha ttrpg's should allow character creation: for the mecha.
>Which was debunked by pointing out those are vidya and vidya gameplay is not comparable.
Again, a big reason for this is because a video game can viscerally simulate things like weight, movement, etc. it does not need clever mechanics that capture the feel of piloting something or mass destruction.
A TTRPG is different. You are using pen, paper, numbers, and grid to try and capture the feel of something very visceral. Your mechanics need to actually back it up, and one of the easiest ways you could capture a sense of scale and destruction would be to simply have out-of-mech action, and then let players see how much more chaotic, destructive, and powerful mech-combat within the same mechanical framework is.
And again, ttrpg's are naturally going to simulate more than just battles the way a game like Armored Core does. You are going to be having adventures and doing things on foot, just like an actual mecha show. So you need good rules for that too.
Sorry I liked to the wrong post, I meant here
>A mecha ttrpg's should allow character creation: for the mecha.
Seems to be accomplished by having core bonuses and mech skills/talents.
>seems to be
How so?
Adding additional skills and minor bonuses (which you only even get to do after a substantial amount of character progression!) to a character that already has its playstyle, stats, and core abilities set in stone is not from scratch character creation.
Compare to Mekton which lets you build the robots frame piece by piece, determining the inner body, armor frame, and then the mechanisms installed within.
Or Princess Wing where you similarly select your Core which gives you a few base stats and a skill, but then also compeltely determine the playstyle and fighting style of your mecha musume moron by placing each armor component individually as well as selecting additional generic skills and your overdrive super move at character creation.
Hell, Princess Wing even has mechanics you can get at frame 0 for combining weapons, transformation mechanics, etc.
It's hilarious that this Japanese magical girl mecha musume rpg modeled after shit like Nanoha manages to make Lancer look like a joke in terms of mech building
Putting sprinkles or chocolate syrup (but only one or the other!) on vanilla ice cream is the same thing as choosing your own flavor and making a whole sundae from the ground up
Lancergays actually believe this
>food analogy
have a nice day NOW
Man, people draw lines in the sand over the weirdest shit.
Not even a good analogy. The game currently has over 37 "flavors," some of which can secretly be an entirely different flavor if you want it to be. Pick chocolate if you want.
You don't typically leave countless weapons and resources free for the taking to your enemies when you retreat, jackass.
Do you think the US should have been bombing their Afghani allies on the way out to make sure they weren't able to surrender and turn over their equipment? You seem torn between anti-war posturing and wounded pride that we finally admitted a war was pointless and unwinnable.
If Sleepy Joe didn't wait until the last possible moment to make good on the pull-out Trump negotiated then it wouldn't have needed to be such a last minute affair you history revisionist moron.
>U R JUS PRO-WAR BCUZ U SED BIDOOF AM BAD
Disingenuous homosexual.
What is the non last minute version where the dogshit Afghani army keeps fighting the Taliban long enough for the US to withdraw and also has no military hardware for the Taliban to capture? If Biden had left day 1 in office, how would that have stopped the Taliban capturing all the equipment the ANDSF had?
>no you see I'm definitely anti-war, I just want to make sure it's very politically damaging to anyone who ends them and make sure they get all the blame for us losing
friendliest lancer thread
Reminder that even Nechronica has more robust customization than Lancer.
Undead e-girls make for better mechs than Lanshills do
Yes, it's absolutely fricking criminal that Nechronica is unironically a better mecha game than Lancer with its part building, part damage, and in-depth crunchy action economy that leads to understandable but tactical action that really makes you think about your parts and characters body.
But if you refluff it your a gay because Nechronica is sovl.
What if I rwfluff it into a mech game but all the mechs are giant undead e-girls and their Treasure is their Pilot?
...could work. I still suggest playing it normally though to get a feel for its spirit though. Importantly in this scenario the giant zombie robot girls need to be the main characters and have the most humanity.
It's fine, I've played it quite a few times before and also I have no desire to actually do that. Other than trying to capture a Knights of Sidonia vibe forcing everyone to take Pet as their Treasure and scaling the world into the micro size wouldn't really accomplish much.
Besides, I'm much more stuck on Ventangle these days anyways.
If you're trying to guerilla market something you should try to avoid using copy-speak as much as possible
I am not Japanese and I am not Ryo Kamiya, I am pretty sure I am not getting any money from telling you Nechronica is a good game.
>copy-speak
What does that even mean
I like Super Robo, not Real Robo
Well you're in luck, because Lancer has NO IDEA what it is and manages to be a garbled, unfun version of both!
Yes, real robots that brap black holes at people and have "paracausal" powers, but things are still gritty "mud and lasers" where everything is super serious hard sci-fi and no fun is allowed.
If I can't fully design my robot and have it be powered by some bullshit half sentient energy ala Getter Rays then I'm not interested.
I'm running a game right now we start our 2nd mission this week. My players have been really into it, especially the mech customizing.
Frick off shill.
Don't discuss RPG's on /tg/!
In my next mission players are going to have a zero-g assault on a nobleman's ship before impersonating his retinue in a masked ball to kidnap a princess for the rebel cause. Little do they know, the princess supports the rebel cause! Been working on maps which are more difficult to find at the right mech scale for LANCER.
Because I've already learned HEX, OVA and MAID. Each of which does those things better than Lancer
I can accurately build my AC6 mech in Princess Wing and then anthropomorphize it as a cute girl.
Can I do any of that in Lancer?
Because Chromestrike exists and emulates the mecha feel I want a million times better.
I remember skimming through that way back. Very Armored Core inspired IIRC?
One day I'll make my ideal Super Robot RPG. For now I'm too busy making a Super Robot beat em up vidya based on one of my old Tokyo Nova campaigns.
Yeah, heavily Armored Core inspired and AC has always been my favorite mecha franchise. Well, AC's technically my second favorite after Zoids, but we're never going to get a Zoids game so I'll just have to settle for quadlegged mechs with turret arms and a bodymod kit.
Also your game looks pretty sick, good luck with it!
Thanks anon! I'm actually working with a jp artist I like for the mech designs.
My thoughts on Lancer, please feed me (you)s
>There are no real in-baked leftwing politics to the base game, maybe in the expansions (wouldn't be surprised). Given how radically hardcore leftist and trans-controlled their Discord is (never seen such a case), I expected it to be all over the place, but it's really not.
>Lancer is not a game made for roleplaying, it's a light wargame to be played as a group. It didn't get pilot rules tagged until later and they're weak and do a poor job. However, if you JUST want a game for fighting, you can build some fun combos.
>Not enough variety. I am staggered when I see people post "uhh you can't reasonably build a character without COMP/CON" because this game is like 2 minutes to generate a complete sheet. When you start out you can only have one mecha type, and your LL doesn't give you tons of customization options unlike other systems like Mekton.
>Both the combat and out of combat were done better by their next project, ICON, which nobody talks about.
I think there's a time and a place for almost every system. If you want to play a mecha game but all your friends are warhammer grogs who just want to look at cool mecha artwork and bang models together, this is a fine system for that. Get in, shoot some bad guys, mission over. If that's what you're looking for in a game, Lancer does fine.
>There are no real in-baked leftwing politics to the base game, maybe in the expansions (wouldn't be surprised). Given how radically hardcore leftist and trans-controlled their Discord is (never seen such a case), I expected it to be all over the place, but it's really not.
There's the intro where it says nuh uh no facism at the table. There's also a lot of general rambling about muh star trek post scarcity utopia over le barbaric capitalist-or-whatever old ways.
A big part of the thing is that Lancers writing is really schizophrenic. A guy I know described it as "2 guys were writing a hard sci fi utopia, while 1 was writing a dystopia. The 1 guy lost but he made sure to sneak in as much of his shit as he wanted before he went out the door". The tone, logic, theme of the setting is all over the place and it's hard to parse anything really consistent out of it other than a vague sense that commie globohomosexual is good even though for some reason we still have megacorp arm-manufacturers even though you really shouldn't need fricking manufactureres when you can star trek 3d print shit but that's just one of many wall bangers that gets covered up (or attempted to cover up) by pages and pages of beauracratic tecnhnobabble.
I agree that the politics handwringing is overblown. It’s Star Trek style communism but with extra whining about capitalism; it’s good for an eye-roll now and then, not massive seething.
However, saying it’s not supposed to be a TTRPG is just wrong. Light skirmish war games don’t come with hundreds of pages on how the government and economy work and different political factions, character progression and leveling up, and supplements to describe regions and history, adventure modules and pre-made campaigns.
They might have fluff and flavor text, but nothing near the level of loredumping Lancer has. They may have campaign rules for multiple battles playing into each other but that’s not the default.
What you’re describing is exactly Lancer’s problem: it’s trying to be both. It’s trying to be a skirmish game with pre-constructed characters you can try builds with, and it’s trying to be an immersive RPG with a Star Trek-like world. It doesn’t really shine at either; maybe that’s because of a lack of focus or if it would have been bad anyway, I don’t know
>It’s Star Trek style communism but with extra whining about capitalism
Star Trek isn't communist.
It might as well be tbh. Star Trek basically runs on "what if we solved all our problems by inventing literal magic, and now nobody has to work and can do whatever they like".
That's fine, neither is Lancer, considering their fully automated post-scarcity society still has everything manufactured by megacorps
This guy
was 100% correct: Lancer's setting is two different settings human-centipeded together
My groups been playing it for 6 months, it's not bad. Rp rules are a little lite but we got by.
It's impossible to discuss on this site though. I have never seen such a mild, safe game recieve such universal vitriol. It has a dedicated cult of shitposters who will flame down any discussion of the game. We had a general going for a while and they would regularly invade and fill half the thread with /misc/posting about a game that's basically just starting trek with mechs
>
>This. Any time Lancer is mentioned a bunch of half-informed shit posters arrive to /misc/ post the thread and attempt to yell over anyone who actually has anything interesting to say.
Disregard greentext
I'm one of those shitposters (and I played the game) and I can tell you I'm not the only one shitting on it in this thread.
This game pisses off people in a lot of different ways, so you should expect a lot of negativity if you're not in your own little containment threads.
lmao Lanshills don't even know how to post on Ganker properly
>/misc/ posting
Anon....
Mecha is INHERENTLY political...
Just ask
!
Ran a full campaign on it, my players really liked it.
I've played a lot of different games, Lancer was the first one i ran and i liked it, however i wish there were more NPC classes and i din't have to mishmash my own to make some unique guys, the templates are fine but they could be more open.
Frick the pegasus, it's an Anti-DM class.
I wish also there were more focus on player skills, they're too vague for my liking, kind of reminds me of FATE, which i also think is too open.
If anyone knows something similar but with more out of mech skills i'd be happy to take a look.
I hate modern western RPGs that steal concepts from the east. It's not the 90s anymore, when the West does it in current year, it's just cringey. Mecha really only works when you're drawing from Japanese stories.
Wrong, Lancer is SHIT for the complete opposite reason.
The devs IIRC said something like they intentionally avoided watching any anime because they thought it would make their shit more "original". In reality you just got something that pisses off mecha fans because it feels like it was written by californian redditors who hate the genre.
Compare on the opposite end Mekton or Gurps Mecha. Those might be clunky to actually play, but when you read those books you can FEEL the love for the genre and affection and understanding of it radiating off the fricking pages, right down to the latter having fricking anime recommendations for inspiration on different types of campaigns (recommending Iczer-1: based).
Sorry, you didn't get what I was saying properly and I also worded things incorrectly. I %100 agree with you. What I'm saying is people who draw from the east while being afraid and cuck like when drawing from it. Basically ignoring the anime of it all or being too afraid to be wuxia in the fantasy.
Basically making the east or any idea derived from the east a boring space because their too afraid of being offensive. It happens with Native American shit too, almost worse. Native American inspired peoples or cultures are NEVER played with morally reprehensible actions despite the entire interesting part of any NA inspired game or people is the complicated tribal politics between them and how you can use that to your advantage.
>right down to the latter having fricking anime recommendations for inspiration on different types of campaigns
I'm curious, which ones do they recommend?
I'd have to redownload and thumb through, but I remember there were little side panels when talking about different genres or type of mechs.
The Iczer-1 recommendation always stuck out to me because it was suggested for if you wanna run a horror or lovecraftian themed mecha campaign. A great recommendation, Iczer-1 is sovl (also funny because the book was obviously published in the 90's otherwise Demonbane would be the obvious go to).
>The Iczer-1 recommendation always stuck out to me because it was suggested for if you wanna run a horror or lovecraftian themed mecha campaign.
That's interesting, I had never heard of Iczer-1, usually my first thought for old mecha with lovecraftian themes are Ideon and the Getter manga, both of which I really love, so I guess I'll check it out.
It's great, an early work of Masami Obari so it's actually a pretty historically important OVA as it not only sets his style but pioneers some animation techniques that were then new.
Also just a really fun watch. Only 3 episode ova so very digestible in a single sitting.
Also FLOOF!
I’m not an autogynephile.
I wanna play ksbd instead anon
>look up first reply
>doesn't mention trannies at all, just sjw's (which is fair given the book literally opens with pic related)
I think you're the one who has something on the mind, honestly.
Someone got mad that people were universally shitting on their favorite game. I think the mechanical critiques hurt them the most.
>liberation
Funny how these people think wanting to be liberated from the government makes you a fascist eh.
cringe game
Lancer does not have a good aesthetic or mech designs.
This. Tom should have swallowed his misplaced pride and just hired someone like Peyton Gee to do 80+% of the art instead of just one or two images.