>What do other TCG games do better
Nothing? It is a dead genre much like fighting games. If I want to play card games I'll do so IRL. Makes no sense to use video games for that.
>What do other TCG games do better
Nothing? It is a dead genre much like fighting games. If I want to play card games I'll do so IRL. Makes no sense to use video games for that.
I have a full collection, the game isn’t nearly as expensive as it used to be.
I buy both preorders (79&49 so 128), then they usually give a post launch deal with two legendaries and packs for 19, and then have enough gold from the last xpac to round out the rest of the set.
So that’s 147, divided by 4 months length of the xpac, so it’s really only 35 bucks a month, half the price of a AAA game a month and I play it way more than I play anything else.
But granted I love card games and have been playing since beta. For someone that wants to get into it casually you can very easily build a meta deck or 2 for free
It's actually not tbh, I have a friend who just started and watching them start the game you get handed around 3K Dust and a Starter Deck and the cards included with it. On top of a couple of Catch-Up Packs to add to the dust collection.
You can easily create a meta deck with that amount of dust. Maybe not a control deck, but something viable with some of the scrounged up cards.
Also the amount of dust you're given each expansion has been pretty lenient. The power level of cards is kind of all over the place, but if you put in a couple of those powerful cards into your deck, you're all set tbh. Catch Up packs being added REALLY helped the dust scaling. I have a friend who made his entire current deck golden (this expansion) because he said frick it and dusted every card he possibly could've that he wasnt using. It's THAT lenient.
If you're consistent with playing and do your Brawl and Dailies, maybe a Battlegrounds or two, I've already hit max level of the pass and sitting on 2k spare gold for something else when it comes up. It's really not as bad as it sounds.
>its actually not >You can easily create a meta deck with that amount of dust.
Bullshit
It's actually not tbh, I have a friend who just started and watching them start the game you get handed around 3K Dust and a Starter Deck and the cards included with it. On top of a couple of Catch-Up Packs to add to the dust collection.
You can easily create a meta deck with that amount of dust. Maybe not a control deck, but something viable with some of the scrounged up cards.
Also the amount of dust you're given each expansion has been pretty lenient. The power level of cards is kind of all over the place, but if you put in a couple of those powerful cards into your deck, you're all set tbh. Catch Up packs being added REALLY helped the dust scaling. I have a friend who made his entire current deck golden (this expansion) because he said frick it and dusted every card he possibly could've that he wasnt using. It's THAT lenient.
If you're consistent with playing and do your Brawl and Dailies, maybe a Battlegrounds or two, I've already hit max level of the pass and sitting on 2k spare gold for something else when it comes up. It's really not as bad as it sounds.
>It's absolutely impossible to get into Hearthstone >Way too expensive to start.
I'm sure it's not impossible to get into it, but what's the point? The game is garbage.
They are literally handing out literal meta decks and all you have to do it not play for a couple of months. The rewards are very generous compared to what they used to be when I played.
I fricking loved Classic mode and I started playing again when it appeared. It was very fun despite the bots. Then they got rid of it because no oldgay player is interested in playing anymore, everyone just wants to consume the new thing. I practically have a full classic collection, and it's not profitable if you can just stop there and be content. I have over 30k dust, and 30k gold, and I have nothing to spend it on. New cards are garbage, I always hated arena, and the control play style has been eradicated, it's all just fill the board -> opponent clears and fills the board -> you clear it -> opponent clears it, and so on, until one of you gets unlucky.
The cards have a fricking novel on them with 3 conditions and 5 effects. >Too expensive to stay competitive.
I mean, if you want to play multiple meta decks, sure. If you are content with just a few, I'm sure it's doable if you play a lot. I recommend against paying, it's a ripoff.
>I mean, if you want to play multiple meta decks
Yes
I don't know why card game players (and devs) pretend that this isn't a problem.
Believe it or not. Most people don't want to play a single deck. They want multiple viable decks.
It's a gacha game designed to steal your money. They used to have like 2 expansions a year, now they have more, It took me a long time to get to a point where I had various meta decks. If you want that without waiting, you'd better be very rich, simple as.
Blaming the meta always seems like a cop out to me because any competitive game will have a meta. Even shit like CoD has a meta. I guess the only difference with hearthstone is because you consistently have to collect cards youre paying to keep up with the meta, versus a game that gets updates/balance changes where you buy in once and adapting to new metas just means switching to a different loadout/skilltree/whatever
But that’s true of any card game virtual or paper
Well it’s funny you say that because I was going to end the post by saying for this reason most people don’t like investing into card games in the first place they’re not for everyone. But likewise fps games aren’t for me, I find them boring. Just different taste
true but I think a good game designer would be able to create a "fun" meta
and best of all is a single player game where you don't need a meta at all and the point is to explore rather than min/max, from a personal standpoint.
>you can experiment and have fun
OK so how do you use that silent card where you can only play it if you're deck is completely empty?
Literally need to build your entire deck around it before you can actually use it.
>hearthstone players stuck with blizztroon gay dev diversity hires every state of the game update looks like a pride parade >marvel snap players get hit with the mommy milker ads
Snapchads just cant stop winning
every time I want to start playing this game again I just look at the new priest and druid cards, they're always enough to convince me not to come back
I've got a friend who has played it a bunch but he complained that if you want to play competitively you have to spend too much money on every expansion for the new cards
One symptom is the dev team prioritises flashy centrepiece cards and forced archetypes: Every expansion releases cards which fundamentally do not work without explicitly printed synergy usually in the form of legendaries, which makes the game autoplay based on which decks the developers want you to play rather than being able to form your own strategies. This has always been true to some extent but it is far worse and more egregious than ever, and this statement can be applied to almost every issue the game has ever had, except it is now simultaneous and normal.
>meanwhile, at the competitors
Hearthstone isn’t “failing,” in the sense that it’s one of the only few managing to stay afloat. It’s the genre (online “collectible” card game) that’s dying, not the game itself
>It’s the genre (online “collectible” card game) that’s dying, not the game itself
YGO is still king and played at most card shops. Just not as big online as it used to be. MTG is falling off IRL but YGO keeps growing.
Its not perfect, but it does a pretty good job at doing what it says. It will read the context of the board and find you an out or lethal if it can, and if not give you something incredibly valuable.
He gives you very good options for the following turn or the current board situation while also looking at your remaining mana. Actually kind of neat of a card, but a little too hard to fit into Wild decks nowadays.
>Why is Hearthstone failing?
Powercreep.
Game used to be about clever minion trading and countering the enemy's threats one by one in the most efficient way.
For years now the game has been about wiping the entire board every turn and accumulating some Quest / OTK that will win you game without having to actually give a shit about what the other guy is doing.
TL;DR: Hearthstone has 2 major issues. >Randomness
This is actually both a benefit and a drawback. Because it's a digital game, it can do whatever the frick it wants without being limited by the cards you took to the table. But as a result, even if you bring a finely-crafted deck, the opponent can win by sheer luck because they discovered some useful cards or Yog popped and then proceeded to Pyroblast your face 3 times in a row and so on. This is fricking infuriating when you're on the receiving end. >Grind
To get anywhere in ladder (and also grind for more packs) you need a decent deck. Your options are either an easily-countered face deck or to spend money on packs for RANDOM cards to get some key pieces to eventually make a deck with. And on average, it's a long ass fricking grind.
I haven't actually played in a good while, so I can't comment on those rental decks or whatever, but they're probably a decent stopgap.
Last I remember was the Created By meta solitaire vs solitaire decks about who could shit the most RNG first. That doesn't sound like a sustainable model. All I want to know is if Miracle Rogue is still a thing somehow or if they HoF the Auctioneer.
Because it has lasted for a good long while now and power creep means the game will always be hard to get into for new blood, and old blood will have missed too many mechanics and will get overwhelmed.
>Why is Hearthstone failing?
When Ben Brode left and trannies took over, the game went into a tailspin.
Remember, there were no wokeshit colors in Blizzcon 2023 except for the troony t-shirt of the guy from the Hearthstone team.
>Why is Hearthstone failing?
They did the absolute bare minimum for the game for too long.
Warcraft lost all communal trust over its lifetime.
They introduced a subgame in the game more addicting and phone like instead of working on their game.
They then tried to shove everything everyone ever wanted (which probably took about five min) in the last ditch effort to keep their hemorrhaging player base. >What do other TCG games do better?
They don't. Especially Magic. Magic is only alive today due to a long running communal trust that they are still bleeding dry, but still has some life left. They have fricked the game to such an extent, if they did what everyone wants fully, embrace EDH, a format they didn't even make, the paper game would instantly die. It will eventually, just bleeding out like a stuck pig.
Card games in general are dying. >no one plays Hearthstone >Legends of Runeterra just announced it is entering maintenance mode >Gwent is in maintenance mode >MtG: Arena is losing players
What could be done to save digital card games?
>what could be done to save digital card games
I don’t see why you would want to. They’re so fricking predatory, I mean I know the meme is own nothing be happy but legit like all you’re paying for is digital cards and the day the servers go down it’s all fricking gone. You should be able to buy a full set for like 20 bucks. Then EVERYONE would buy the full set instead of a couple whales buying the 80 buck one and it would balance it. The whales will buy cosmetics. So this way when the game does ultimately fold at least everyone isn’t out nearly as much money.
But seriously at this point the only reason a game like hearthstone is still going is out of obligation to the player base which is why they continually lay off employees and cut game modes, just be wary that they’re going to run out of stuff to cut soon. Either that or they’ll have to implement ads
Well, one thing would be to actually make a TCG instead of a DCG. You know, where you can actually TRADE CARDS.
In excess of that, why not an open world card game? Like Genshin, but not shit. >Explore a world full of people and monsters who wish to duel you, seek out rare cards guarded by powerful foes >Participate in raids with other players where you all face off against legendary enemies and their decks at the same time >Feel like some PvP? Head to a regional tavern and see who is looking to battle >Zone chat is present for people who want to interact alongside opt-in proximity voice chat with private channel settings
Eternal is trucking along fine. Low playerbase but they've been pumping out new cards and expansions for years and years uninterrupted. >b-b-but it isn't HS/MtG/Gwent/LoR!
have a nice day
>What could be done to save digital card games?
it's already saved
AI art generation made it so that it's trivial to make such games. You'll see a bunch of them come out on steam soon.
why do you morons always ask loaded questions?
Hearthstone isn't dying, TCG was a niche thing until Hearthstone, then it got big (mtg released proper online version, shadowverse, a million copy cats and even fricking lord of the rings made a tcg) and now a decade later it's niche again.
>dev and design teams full of literal homosexuals >hyper aggro gets rewarded >moronic turn 5 otks get rewarded >control gets punished and nerfed instantly because muh quick matches >netdecking >decks so brainless literal bots are piloting them to #1 legend >ladder is 90% bots >reddit
need I go on?
Hearthstone has a long way to go before “failing” because they have a number of popular IPs they can throw into the game to give it a quick boost for a time. They’ve already shown they’re willing to cross IPs with Diablo in battlegrounds. Once the game hits a low point expect to see shit like an overwatch set diablo set etc.
>What do other TCG games do better
Nothing? It is a dead genre much like fighting games. If I want to play card games I'll do so IRL. Makes no sense to use video games for that.
>fighting games are a dead genre
:thinking:
>SF6 hitting finally hitting 3mil after fricking months
>meanwhile palworld
:thunkingz:
whats the artist or character name for this, i had full pic and now im missing it
yandex got it; michishige karen by "uo denim"
It's absolutely impossible to get into Hearthstone
Way too expensive to start. Too expensive to stay competitive.
I have a full collection, the game isn’t nearly as expensive as it used to be.
I buy both preorders (79&49 so 128), then they usually give a post launch deal with two legendaries and packs for 19, and then have enough gold from the last xpac to round out the rest of the set.
So that’s 147, divided by 4 months length of the xpac, so it’s really only 35 bucks a month, half the price of a AAA game a month and I play it way more than I play anything else.
But granted I love card games and have been playing since beta. For someone that wants to get into it casually you can very easily build a meta deck or 2 for free
>its actually not
>You can easily create a meta deck with that amount of dust.
Bullshit
Welcome to aggro decks enjoy your stay
It's actually not tbh, I have a friend who just started and watching them start the game you get handed around 3K Dust and a Starter Deck and the cards included with it. On top of a couple of Catch-Up Packs to add to the dust collection.
You can easily create a meta deck with that amount of dust. Maybe not a control deck, but something viable with some of the scrounged up cards.
Also the amount of dust you're given each expansion has been pretty lenient. The power level of cards is kind of all over the place, but if you put in a couple of those powerful cards into your deck, you're all set tbh. Catch Up packs being added REALLY helped the dust scaling. I have a friend who made his entire current deck golden (this expansion) because he said frick it and dusted every card he possibly could've that he wasnt using. It's THAT lenient.
If you're consistent with playing and do your Brawl and Dailies, maybe a Battlegrounds or two, I've already hit max level of the pass and sitting on 2k spare gold for something else when it comes up. It's really not as bad as it sounds.
>It's absolutely impossible to get into Hearthstone
>Way too expensive to start.
I'm sure it's not impossible to get into it, but what's the point? The game is garbage.
They are literally handing out literal meta decks and all you have to do it not play for a couple of months. The rewards are very generous compared to what they used to be when I played.
I fricking loved Classic mode and I started playing again when it appeared. It was very fun despite the bots. Then they got rid of it because no oldgay player is interested in playing anymore, everyone just wants to consume the new thing. I practically have a full classic collection, and it's not profitable if you can just stop there and be content. I have over 30k dust, and 30k gold, and I have nothing to spend it on. New cards are garbage, I always hated arena, and the control play style has been eradicated, it's all just fill the board -> opponent clears and fills the board -> you clear it -> opponent clears it, and so on, until one of you gets unlucky.
The cards have a fricking novel on them with 3 conditions and 5 effects.
>Too expensive to stay competitive.
I mean, if you want to play multiple meta decks, sure. If you are content with just a few, I'm sure it's doable if you play a lot. I recommend against paying, it's a ripoff.
>I mean, if you want to play multiple meta decks
Yes
I don't know why card game players (and devs) pretend that this isn't a problem.
Believe it or not. Most people don't want to play a single deck. They want multiple viable decks.
It's a gacha game designed to steal your money. They used to have like 2 expansions a year, now they have more, It took me a long time to get to a point where I had various meta decks. If you want that without waiting, you'd better be very rich, simple as.
1- poorly designed decks built around OTK or RNG
2- meta is too rigid, resulting in ~10 viable decks per expansion
This is why single player games like Slay the Spire are much better, you can experiment and have fun without needing to be a meta slave.
>1- poorly designed decks built around OTK or RNG
This so much.
Best part of Hearthstone is minion VS minion combat. But that part of the game is completely dead.
Blaming the meta always seems like a cop out to me because any competitive game will have a meta. Even shit like CoD has a meta. I guess the only difference with hearthstone is because you consistently have to collect cards youre paying to keep up with the meta, versus a game that gets updates/balance changes where you buy in once and adapting to new metas just means switching to a different loadout/skilltree/whatever
But that’s true of any card game virtual or paper
yes, all card games are shit, what's your point?
Well it’s funny you say that because I was going to end the post by saying for this reason most people don’t like investing into card games in the first place they’re not for everyone. But likewise fps games aren’t for me, I find them boring. Just different taste
true but I think a good game designer would be able to create a "fun" meta
and best of all is a single player game where you don't need a meta at all and the point is to explore rather than min/max, from a personal standpoint.
>experiment and have fun in one of the most aggressively overtuned games in existence
good lord i wish i could have refunded StS
what does overtuned mean
lurk a lot more
holy fricking dickshit why is slay the spire the only fanbase i've encountered that consistently does not know what overtuned means
if they played other games they wouldn't be satisfied with slay the spire
ive never played it
Because overtuned makes no sense in said context, you reactionary homosexual
>.t only played StS in its complete 1.0 state
Never played StS. If you're meaning "too difficult", thats wrong use of overtuned. You lose.
Yes, I played in early beta (before the Defect was released) and it became progressively more difficult for no reason, over time. You lose.
does this criticism even apply to new players though
>you can experiment and have fun
OK so how do you use that silent card where you can only play it if you're deck is completely empty?
Literally need to build your entire deck around it before you can actually use it.
>hearthstone players stuck with blizztroon gay dev diversity hires every state of the game update looks like a pride parade
>marvel snap players get hit with the mommy milker ads
Snapchads just cant stop winning
every time I want to start playing this game again I just look at the new priest and druid cards, they're always enough to convince me not to come back
why not play mage?
playing mage doesn't negate whatever cancer shit priest or druid has this week
For me? Eternal for PvP.
>b-b-buhhh it isn't Magic/HS/Gwent!
bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I've got a friend who has played it a bunch but he complained that if you want to play competitively you have to spend too much money on every expansion for the new cards
Too expensive.
Meta too polarizing
One symptom is the dev team prioritises flashy centrepiece cards and forced archetypes: Every expansion releases cards which fundamentally do not work without explicitly printed synergy usually in the form of legendaries, which makes the game autoplay based on which decks the developers want you to play rather than being able to form your own strategies. This has always been true to some extent but it is far worse and more egregious than ever, and this statement can be applied to almost every issue the game has ever had, except it is now simultaneous and normal.
>meanwhile, at the competitors
Hearthstone isn’t “failing,” in the sense that it’s one of the only few managing to stay afloat. It’s the genre (online “collectible” card game) that’s dying, not the game itself
>It’s the genre (online “collectible” card game) that’s dying, not the game itself
YGO is still king and played at most card shops. Just not as big online as it used to be. MTG is falling off IRL but YGO keeps growing.
>MTG falling off
Sad but doesn't surprise me. Played a lot when I was younger but last I heard they went all in on the DEI shit. Many such cases.
Who's playing YGO irl besides Black folk and children? At least magic has edh which is a much better way to play with you friends.
>YGO is still king and played at most card shops
On what planet? Most regions have maybe one shop that'll still sell em if you're lucky
>wish for the perfect card
What does this even mean
it means you can take their blue eyes white dragon card and rip it in half
It looks at the board state and gives you three options of a card that might be good from, at the time, evergreen set.
he gives you a choice between lethal, board clear, and tirion
Its not perfect, but it does a pretty good job at doing what it says. It will read the context of the board and find you an out or lethal if it can, and if not give you something incredibly valuable.
He gives you very good options for the following turn or the current board situation while also looking at your remaining mana. Actually kind of neat of a card, but a little too hard to fit into Wild decks nowadays.
>Why is Hearthstone failing?
Powercreep.
Game used to be about clever minion trading and countering the enemy's threats one by one in the most efficient way.
For years now the game has been about wiping the entire board every turn and accumulating some Quest / OTK that will win you game without having to actually give a shit about what the other guy is doing.
> way too pay 2 win
> pushes troony and diversity shit
no thanks ill stick to play elder scrolls legends, the dead and kino card game.
>tfw you wanna go back to turn 7 lethal being "fast"
>What do other TCG games do better?
Be fun? I dunno what answer you were expecting. Hearthstone is 1. ancient and 2. not fun
>DUDE HEARTHSTONE XDDDD
wish i could upvote this epic post
TL;DR: Hearthstone has 2 major issues.
>Randomness
This is actually both a benefit and a drawback. Because it's a digital game, it can do whatever the frick it wants without being limited by the cards you took to the table. But as a result, even if you bring a finely-crafted deck, the opponent can win by sheer luck because they discovered some useful cards or Yog popped and then proceeded to Pyroblast your face 3 times in a row and so on. This is fricking infuriating when you're on the receiving end.
>Grind
To get anywhere in ladder (and also grind for more packs) you need a decent deck. Your options are either an easily-countered face deck or to spend money on packs for RANDOM cards to get some key pieces to eventually make a deck with. And on average, it's a long ass fricking grind.
I haven't actually played in a good while, so I can't comment on those rental decks or whatever, but they're probably a decent stopgap.
Anyone been keeping up with this?
I’m pretty sure it’s supposed to release soonish but I know frick all about it
>Which one is this?
>Oh right, the asynchronous draft autobattler
Thanks, I forgot the name.
2 more weeks is what i heard
battlegrounds became the better game, which is essentially is f2p with cosmetics only so not getting as many whales buying card packs anymore
Last I remember was the Created By meta solitaire vs solitaire decks about who could shit the most RNG first. That doesn't sound like a sustainable model.
All I want to know is if Miracle Rogue is still a thing somehow or if they HoF the Auctioneer.
Because it has lasted for a good long while now and power creep means the game will always be hard to get into for new blood, and old blood will have missed too many mechanics and will get overwhelmed.
>Why is Hearthstone failing?
When Ben Brode left and trannies took over, the game went into a tailspin.
Remember, there were no wokeshit colors in Blizzcon 2023 except for the troony t-shirt of the guy from the Hearthstone team.
>Why is Hearthstone failing?
They did the absolute bare minimum for the game for too long.
Warcraft lost all communal trust over its lifetime.
They introduced a subgame in the game more addicting and phone like instead of working on their game.
They then tried to shove everything everyone ever wanted (which probably took about five min) in the last ditch effort to keep their hemorrhaging player base.
>What do other TCG games do better?
They don't. Especially Magic. Magic is only alive today due to a long running communal trust that they are still bleeding dry, but still has some life left. They have fricked the game to such an extent, if they did what everyone wants fully, embrace EDH, a format they didn't even make, the paper game would instantly die. It will eventually, just bleeding out like a stuck pig.
Card games in general are dying.
>no one plays Hearthstone
>Legends of Runeterra just announced it is entering maintenance mode
>Gwent is in maintenance mode
>MtG: Arena is losing players
What could be done to save digital card games?
>what could be done to save digital card games
I don’t see why you would want to. They’re so fricking predatory, I mean I know the meme is own nothing be happy but legit like all you’re paying for is digital cards and the day the servers go down it’s all fricking gone. You should be able to buy a full set for like 20 bucks. Then EVERYONE would buy the full set instead of a couple whales buying the 80 buck one and it would balance it. The whales will buy cosmetics. So this way when the game does ultimately fold at least everyone isn’t out nearly as much money.
But seriously at this point the only reason a game like hearthstone is still going is out of obligation to the player base which is why they continually lay off employees and cut game modes, just be wary that they’re going to run out of stuff to cut soon. Either that or they’ll have to implement ads
Well, one thing would be to actually make a TCG instead of a DCG. You know, where you can actually TRADE CARDS.
In excess of that, why not an open world card game? Like Genshin, but not shit.
>Explore a world full of people and monsters who wish to duel you, seek out rare cards guarded by powerful foes
>Participate in raids with other players where you all face off against legendary enemies and their decks at the same time
>Feel like some PvP? Head to a regional tavern and see who is looking to battle
>Zone chat is present for people who want to interact alongside opt-in proximity voice chat with private channel settings
They tried to do that with the mercenaries mode and it failed spectacularly
Eternal is trucking along fine. Low playerbase but they've been pumping out new cards and expansions for years and years uninterrupted.
>b-b-but it isn't HS/MtG/Gwent/LoR!
have a nice day
>What could be done to save digital card games?
it's already saved
AI art generation made it so that it's trivial to make such games. You'll see a bunch of them come out on steam soon.
why do you morons always ask loaded questions?
Hearthstone isn't dying, TCG was a niche thing until Hearthstone, then it got big (mtg released proper online version, shadowverse, a million copy cats and even fricking lord of the rings made a tcg) and now a decade later it's niche again.
Economy is too ass for standard and wild sucks.
Same shit for MtG. Historic sucks as a format.
holding out for shadowverse 2
>holding out until summer 2024
lul
>dev and design teams full of literal homosexuals
>hyper aggro gets rewarded
>moronic turn 5 otks get rewarded
>control gets punished and nerfed instantly because muh quick matches
>netdecking
>decks so brainless literal bots are piloting them to #1 legend
>ladder is 90% bots
>reddit
need I go on?
How can Hyper Aggro and T5 OtK exist at the same time?
By having control decks to feed on.
You either win by otk or lose to hyper aggro before you get the pieces, duh
Anon, Runeterra is dead. Snap is dead. AA games like Mythgard are dead.
Hearthstone has a long way to go before “failing” because they have a number of popular IPs they can throw into the game to give it a quick boost for a time. They’ve already shown they’re willing to cross IPs with Diablo in battlegrounds. Once the game hits a low point expect to see shit like an overwatch set diablo set etc.
Starcraft set when Shitzzard?