Why is it always the same kind of people who dislike the "all evil" race tropes and always want to compare then with some real world group. It's as if they cannot grasp the concept of existential threats or even attempt to engage with a stories mechanics. Everything is Allegory for them.
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Because it in practice works the other way around too. People go, "see those real people are just like x evil fantasy race and we should kill them".
Projection
Nothing more hypocrital and cowardly than a /misc/tard.
Fricking moronic whingy idpol homosexual. I hope you get lynched by all those fascist gamer strawmen that live rent free in your head.
If A homie started acting like an ork from Warhammer I don't think anyone would mind having him lynched.
That's the whole point, cuckold! They ARE evil and we SHOULD kill them all.
If I go around fricking children, killing men and women, and burning everything on my way along my tribe, is my tribe, the green morons, bad or good?
Depends, are you white? If you're not white then you're evil.
>projects onto a race of massmurdering psychopats
>"omg y people want to hurt me"
At this point what you people have can only be described as government sponsored mass-hysteria.
nah, quit being disingenuous.
Pure projection. You might actually be moronic.
Like genuinely sub-90 IQ narcissism.
How might you feel if you did not have breakfast this morning?
>it's not real it doesn't happen
>meanwhile, just search orcs on /misc/ and you get thousands of results doing exactly that
>m-m-mu-muh /misc/!
Take your fricking meds you utter mongoloid. People associating things does not mean that association A directly follows association B, let alone vice-versa. Also, you didn't answer the question, and I can only assume that it's because you genuinely didn't understand it.
I DID understand the question it's just fricking irrelevant since I DID have breakfast.
>projection
No that's you.
You don't see people comparing Frieren's demons to any real world group, because the story places an actual effort in making sure they come off as an existential threat (and there's still plenty of things to criticize about them, just not exactly that).
Most of the time there are glaring implications left behind by the existance of any all evil race. How do they function? How does an utterly evil race structure their society? If there is a dark lord puppeting them, are they even evil at all? Would they behave differently if taken out of their society or if the dark lord was defeated?
Those are all questions that narratives often leave behind and those are questions the players and their characters can ask themselves. If you do not provide a satisfying answer they will question you further.
And here's the thing, hammering "NO, THEY'RE ALL EVIL" is not an answer, it will leave your players unsatisfied and push them towards addressing the narrative's flaws further.
To be fair evil can be wholly from an outside persoective. Taking a semi-real world group see the migration era Israelites
>This is our land and everyone else living in it will be exterminated unless they help us or trick us into sparing them, binding us by oath to not kill them
If you were a Caananite than the Israelites were an evil race, they could function just fine collectively, but anyone outside of that group only deserved to flee or die. If you expand this over a larger region it amps up how an outsider would view them as an evil race, not simply desiring land, but waging genocidal wars and refusing to accept simple submission in their path to be the sole owners of that land.
They don't have a society any more than warbands grouped together under a powerful warlord and are normally solo predators, and their only hierarchy is in terms of how much magic power ones of them has to coerce the others. Even the clothes you see are made magically to mimic human civilisation to more easily kill and eat them and in a way evolved as it was more successful in terms of survival selection.
>Most of the time there are glaring implications left behind by the existance of any all evil race.
I found this to never be true if one actually understands the setting and lore behind the evil race
>You don't see people comparing Frieren's demons to any real world group
O kawaii koto
>You are not allowed to have always evil races, but you can have always evil groups
>Good and bad don't exist, everything is just morally grey slop
>I may have killed this innocent person but I am still chaotic good because I know it was the right thing to do!
Something tells me evil people are trying to justify themselves on why they are not evil.
You're so close to understanding.
Please explain how having pig headed orcs in a game of make believe is a attack to my brotha Jamal.
They are unable to tell fantasy from reality, which makes them inherently dangerous. I mean, there are allegories in fiction, some of them very blatant (For example Valkyria Chronicles and Fuga both have holocaust parallels and it's very obvious about it) but evil monsters is a concept so ancient it predates modern humans, and an evil monster is just an evil monster.
>pic
You can apply the same logic to panda and koala, if they were ugly we would've let them go extinct long ago.
Yes because butterflies infest homes and consume/contaminate human food. Man Nietzsche IS a moron tier "philosopher".
got Nietzsche'd
wienerroaches are invasive pests and butterflies are pollinators with declining populations
Nietzsche never actually said this.
He never said that.
He never said that.
You don't understand it, a p-zombie is a concept that runs in circles.
>what if a person was completely indistinguishable from a normal human in every way and behaved as if they had a consciousness in a way that absolutely no person could tell they don't actually have one?
That's what it means. And guess what is the answer? Well it is "then it doesn't make any difference." A p-zombie is literally a word that means nothing.
>A p-zombie is literally a word that means nothing.
No, it's a thought experiment devised to try refuting physicalism, and is useful for beating people upside the head with Theory of Mind. Its original case is trivially dismissed by pointing at all the ways messing with the brain impacts behaviors and reported experiences as evidence of emergent consciousness, but it remains useful as a way to explain that you cannot actually know for certain whether somebody else is even actually a person.
I just find all evil groups to be shallow and pedantic
I find your meme insists upon itself
Cool it with the anti-semitic remarks.
>Everything is Allegory for them
It isn't that X race represents Y real race, it's that the argument "Always Evil" HAS been used to justify real genocide against real people historically and it's too evocative of actual genocide to take at face value without forethought. They aren't an allegory, they're an example of the author (in /tg/'s case, GMs mostly) being unable to formulate a genuine conflict without resorting to disposable, flat evil mobs while using caricatures of a race, fictional or otherwise, to justify the lack of thought into that angle. It's racism that stems more from laziness or lack of ability than it is genuine prejudice (though that can absolutely be the major factor as well).
Ironic you're using Frieren as an example for this when Frieren actually does legwork portraying a necessary diversity in outlook and insight so that when demons are explained they're clearly an antagonist that supports the character building. Frieren COULD go into logistics about people's differences in belief, status, ability, what have you, but it chooses to not put that focus as the antagonistic element and rather the worldbuilding of the characters and background. Demons could have more depth to them we've yet to see, but Frieren actually earns the benefit of the doubt that they're pulling an "always evil race" because of everything else it does, and that simply fighting demons isn't the main focus of the story. A grog DM making a gnoll war campaign doesn't get that BotD because they're only there for the combat, not the storytelling, and the lack of good characteristics for their mobs of choice are ancillary to the story, whereas Frieren's are integral.
>It's racism
I agree that it's lazy
but how is that racism if those aren't allegories for real world races ? and who cares if "always evil" was used as an excuse to do evil stuff ?
>who cares if "always evil" was used as an excuse to do evil stuff
People who want an escapist fantasy and not a Crusades larp. It's not fun to roleplay genocidal zealots regardless of how much backstory you try and port to justify it, unless you're already aligned with those ideals.
>if those aren't allegories for real world races
Just because the content is fictional doesn't divorce it from real implications or reflect human experience. Just as you use escapism to enjoy stuff that can't happen for you that same escapism can be unenjoyable for things you wouldn't want to happen. You can't just turn your brain off and not recognize stuff arbitrarily. Stories use things that are understandable and recognizable even if they aren't direct allegories; that's how content exists, you can't make a story with completely alien content. A game with peasants and royalty is still relevant nowadays even to people not under any royal rule, and the implications of events has real resonance even without real symmetry.
Always evil races... of MONSTERS.
Do people fail to consider that monsters are a concept of being which almost exclusively inimical to man?
The examples from most media are still mechanically represented as humanoid/people. People is a better term than human, because of differences in fantasy race or even species in the case of stuff with anthro characters like animated movies or properties like Sonic. Even if they aren't directly "human" there is countless media where aliens are portrayed as People. Calling people monsters is classic dehumanization and in the cases of fantasy races, it's 100% analogous to real dehumanization of "they're not like us and are evil". There being exceptions to this doesn't erase the majority of cases where this arises, such as with orcs, goblins, etc. in most fantasy properties which is the obvious inspiration behind the thread.
Weapons have been used to commit real genocides and yet I don't see you advocate to remove weapons from ttrpgs like you do with in game racism
moron
If you can't kill something with your naked body then you don't deserve to kill it. That's why I only play barbarian monks and other nudist psychopaths in ttrpgs.
>Weapons have been used to commit real genocides and yet I don't see you advocate to remove weapons from ttrpgs
If only you knew how bad things really are
If you don't want always evil races then don't use always evil races. Stop trying to use a screwdriver as a fricking hammer.
>it's too evocative of actual genocide to take at face value without forethought.
No, it isn't. People have been doing just that for thousands of years.
these are the type of people who believe you see propaganda (or what the believe is propaganda) you'll automatically believe the propaganda, that's why there all for subverting and censoring everything.
In there eyes you literally cannot look at, or see the idea of genocide without automatically agreeing with it.
That's because THEY are easily susceptible to propaganda so they think everyone is.
Oh frick that makes way too much sense.
Question is do they actually believe it too or are they just so narcissistic they think they're immune but everyone else is vulnerable?
The believe their immune because they only choose to hear about how bad Nazism and genocide from third part sources such as CNN, or bread tubers like Vaush, maybe someone more moderate like ShoeOnHead. The point being them hearing it from a 'reliable source' so its not propaganda in there eyes.
That makes a worrying amount of sense, having had three misfortune of speaking to one of these activists at a training course it was all arguments from authority now I think about it.
Very thankful I grew up before that. I shudder to think of the effect having all my worst impulses celebrated would have had on me as a teenager.
>Very thankful I grew up before that.
I have an autistic brother, we are both in our thirties now & I was tragic watching him get twisted by the internet in his early twenties. Always guard your mind & challenge your own principles
Oh I know that now. I was lucky, my best bud called me and told me to pack it the frick in.
That call was in 2000, and I still remember it verbatim.
NTA
No one is immune to propaganda not me not you, but most people have a decent head on their shoulders & have social constructs & community to help self check any deviance, a sort of cultural ineria that keeps radical elements to a minimum in our society. But then the internet came. Now headcases instead of being forced by peer pressure into keep a lid on their crazy to an acceptable level, they find each other & create echo chambers that self justify their beliefs. This goes on every side of the political spectrum btw. The same people who Crusade with a rainbow flag would of happily carried an iron eagle if they had been exposed to it first. It's all about which rabbit holes you fall down. Best cure is to talk to your neighbors & don't isolate yourself
>it's too evocative of actual genocide to take at face value without forethought
Spoken like someone who heard a smart person talking once and tried to copy the style. Just vomiting a billion meaningless words doesn't make you smart.
The rest of us can differentiate fantasy from reality. If you can't it's because you are mad. If you won't it's because you're an activist lying for political reasons.
Why is it that some people will just insist political allegories and dog whistles simply don't exist? While the complaints about "this race is obviously intended to portray X" are generally bullshit when directed at modern or mainstream things, there's absolutely loads of examples of these things in fiction, and pretending otherwise is just dishonest.
The issue is more when people jump to that conclusion with zero links
>Tolkien was a racist for portraying black people as subhuman evil orcs
Ignoring that all non-white people were in fact evil in LOTR in the form of the Haradrim and Sauron’s mortal human followers.
Yes, but that's not really relevant to my point. My point is more that rightoid SJWs are dishonest and annoying.
So are you, disingenuous homosexual.
In this case I don’t think they are. I can’t think of any mass media where the evil race are a clear allegory for israelites or blacks or whatever and personal media like some dude’s campaign is easy to avoid interacting with or even hearing about.
>easy to avoid means it doesn't exist and people don't express these views publicly
To be clear I don't think this is a real problem, these things generally ARE small scale and basically just words, but the insistence that it simply DOESN'T exist is pretty ridiculous
lmao do you even know what disingenuous means? SJWs always get so mad when they're called on their shit
>easy to avoid means it doesn't exist and people don't express these views publicly
I don’t think anyone’s seriously claiming that, they just don’t specifically mention it because it’s so rare or easy to avoid that it’s irrelevant. Like making threads about the tweets of completely irrelevant people with no ties to anything important. Dave the 40 year old accountant posted a tweet about his Orcs who live in mud huts and speak broken English while talking about how virile they are and how they used to be kings? Stop the fricking presses we have to discuss this.
I mean, aren't games like Dave's the ones we talk about most often, on /tg/? Also I've been reliably informed (sperged at repeatedly) by various rightoids that every single literal who's opinion on anything matters, so who doesn't it this time?
Why doesn't it, rather
>Why is it that some people will just insist political allegories and dog whistles simply don't exist?
Why is it that some "people" will just insist everything is a political allegory or a dog whistle?
>NOOOOO YOU CANT HAVE A RACE THAT IS INHERENTLY EVIL
>THEY NEED TO BE NUANCED GREY MORALITY ANTIHEROS LIKE THE JAILOR FROM WARCRAFT
The all evil race trope is boring.
better than 'Oh I'm just misunderstood I didn't mean to kill of that orphanage full of innocent children it's the racism that made me do it' trope villains who always get immediately redeemed.
I always see this same shitty rebuttal whenever thus subject gets brought up but I've never seen it explained. How is Always Evil Races "boring"?
It's just gays that think changing something for the sake of changing something adds depth.
Because they think a variety of characters among a single group automatically equals creativity and better writing, completely ignoring the idea of simplicity
The same reason you wouldn't find a joke funny after hearing it for the 9001st time
That's also pretty boring
It makes them extremely predictable and is shorthand for "go ahead and kill but don't think about it too hard because there is nothing of substance here." Just walking bags of xp dressed up like a theoretically intelligent creature.
So every trap, every antagonist, every obstacle is boring and lazy and exists purely to be a walking xp bundle. That moral quandary? It's actually just an xp bundle.
I am sick to fricking death of "help group A against group B, oh wait it turns out group B is only doing stuff because group A did shit first!"
I don't fricking care. It's not interesting, not even the first fricking time to stop and play fricking detective and conflict mediator. All it does is bring any momentum to a crashing fricking halt and make the party bicker. Fighting orcs may lose its charm after the fifth encounter, but dealing with someone's hot take on morally grey conflict is as welcome as a dick in the ass; only homosexuals look forward to it.
>So every trap, every antagonist, every obstacle is boring and lazy and exists purely to be a walking xp bundle. That moral quandary? It's actually just an xp bundle.
No, and that was a stupid conclusion on your part.
You oversimplify and deconstruct Always Evil Races, but not traps or other bullshit that's just as boring? You're being a colossal fricking homosexual
>You oversimplify
Projection that leads to your subsequent tantrum.
You claim that always evil is "boring", that's an oversimplification. I am comparing your oversimplification of fighting always evil races to disarming yet another trap as "boring". It's a valid fricking comparison you wienersucking leech
You oversimplify what I said because that's the only way you gain license to b***h about it. You're also not interested in understanding why you're wrong.
You can't actually tell me why always evil races are boring so go frick yourself with a coke can sideways motherfricker
I already said why in my first post and you ignored it so you could keep making a fool out of yourself.
Your problem with evil races is that they are predictable?
I mean they become boring and predictable if you dumb them down
So you say I oversimplify always evil races, but your counterargument is just "nuh uh they're not boring, you just need to make them interesting." How wonderfully vague and meaningless.
But your argument was "It makes them extremely predictable"
So yeah? If you don't dumb them down they won't be predictable
They are inherently predictable. An always evil orc will never surprise anyone because everyone knows exactly what behaviors to expect.
Not entirely?
There are many different ways an orc can behave while still being "evil"
If you're just playing it as a buncha goons in dungeon cellar then of course it will be boring.
Is your gripe based on combat or roleplay?
I think we both would be better off if I knew exactly what you find predictable
The roleplay aspect. Orcs can be tactical regarless of hardcoded alignment and that much is fine. But any adventurer with two brain cells to rub together will know better than to trust an orc on any level unless there is significant enlightened self-interest involved on their part. And even then, orcs are known to be violent in general so there's still the risk he'll try caving in your skull anyway for shits and giggles. Even such a "surprise" is predictable.
Alright
So you would prefer if the evil orcs are more open for diplomacy?
I think its not that you don't like evil races, but hate *STUPID* evil races.
No, an always evil orc can be fully open to diplomacy. But you will always know he'd rather just bash you over the head and take your stuff, make you a slave, etc. He will be a selfish brute who is looking for ways to screw you over in some way, because it's in the blood.
Why do you keep using the same fricking descriptors & not putting any thought into your words you snake-eyed frick? Orcs can have culture, religion & goals. Even if they were cavemen brutes like you keep saying that can be 100% perfectly fricking fine if the campaign is enriching elsewhere. Sometimes it's cool to have an always evil race to juxtapose against other more nuanced factions dumbass
How about you make a fricking effort to to illustrate your point of view that are just the same words and phrases passed through a thesaurus, shitheel.
You keep demanding serious attention while advertising what a waste of time that would be.
Woah man, take a chill pill
We are on the same side of "Evil races are fine" right?
I support Always Evil Races, yes. And I actually am chill, I'm just adding more insults the longer he refuses to give meaningful responses. It's like he's colorblind and refuses to accept that other depths of color are out there even if HE can't see it.
It does matter. You can use Always Evil Races in multiple ways to add depth to your story/setting. You're just refusing to engage on that because you're a c**tfaced baboon who can't actually articulate anything beyond regurgitating some platitude like an incontinent moron.
I'm fully capable of holding a legitimate conversation while still heaping on the playground insults you goosefooted slugfaced wienerriding cowboy
>I'm fully capable of holding a legitimate conversation
No you're not. This anon
is and I can respect them for it. You just demand that everyone see things your way and throw hissyfits when that doesn't happen.
If you want me to stop being mean to you justify it
Being mean to him does nothing at all to convince him that evil races are okay
There is no point in being reductive and swearing like he wants all evil races gone
Besides he dosen't like them for the RP so I'm sure he would be fine with evil races if it was a more casual dungeon crawl game
To be frank, people can enjoy what they want. I just find always evil races to be boring and so avoid them for the reasons you outlined. If someone else likes them, that's no skin off my back. Assuming they don't act like a spastic tool over the whole thing.
That's not a priority for me.
I know, you've got your hands full just breathing and typing at the same time fatty
Always evil is literally a solved equation. There's no reason to do anything but kill them unless they aren't actually always evil. Anything you do with them that isn't killing or thwarting them just creates more problems down the line because you're allowing them to survive and amass more power to frick you, your allies, and your loved ones later on because they WILL do that.
>[Traps are] literally a solved equation. There's no reason to do anything but [Disable] them unless they aren't actually [Traps]. Anything you do with them that isn't [Disabling] or [Triggering] them just creates more problems down the line because you're allowing them to survive and [Trigger on] you, your allies, and your loved ones later on because they WILL do that.
>>>/d/
>[Dungeons are] literally a solved equation. There's no reason to do anything but [Clear] them unless they aren't actually [Dungeons]. Anything you do with them that isn't [Clearing] or [Exploring] them just creates more problems down the line because you're allowing them to survive and amass more [Monsters] to frick you, your allies, and your loved ones later on because they WILL do that.
It's like you can't even think critically bro.
Lol, this will be a better argument than anything he can actually say to justify his little "solved equation/boring" statement.
>[Arabs] literally a solved equation. There's no reason to do anything but [Disable] them unless they aren't actually [Arabs]. Anything you do with them that isn't [Disabling] or [Triggering] them just creates more problems down the line because you're allowing them to survive and [Trigger on] you, your allies, and your loved ones later on because they WILL do that.
>[Israeli AI assassins] literally a solved equation. There's no reason to do anything but [Disable] them unless they aren't actually [Israeli AI Assassins]. Anything you do with them that isn't [Disabling] or [Triggering] them just creates more problems down the line because you're allowing them to survive and [Trigger on] you, your allies, and your loved ones later on because they WILL do that.
>[Americans] literally a solved equation. There's no reason to do anything but [Disable] them unless they aren't actually [Americans]. Anything you do with them that isn't [Disabling] or [Triggering] them just creates more problems down the line because you're allowing them to survive and [Trigger on] you, your allies, and your loved ones later on because they WILL do that.
It seems the future is certain. and the outcome is a known unknown.
Hey now, I'm at least keeping this game related frickface
I'm just saying he's in his living room with friends while actual bad shit is happening and he's doing nothing but rolling dice. and complaining about a theoretical problem on al gores series of tubes on a children's card game conflagration. and he's asking for correct moral frames of reference.
delusional doesn't even begin to cover the leaps made this is a horrifyingly naive individual.
doublethink is meaningless to these things because they're at nothink working into monothink
But in practice it doesn't matter. The always evil race will be always evil and thus not worth entertaining any of that. You just want to have your cake and eat it too by saying a square peg is actually round.
Well that would be a problem with people running it, no?
the peg is the shape you want to make it
You can have them be just mindless savages or have them be imperialist conquers
There's no fundamental difference because you always know where they stand. Not killing them or treating with them just allows them to cause more harm in the future.
Well what would you prefer then, for antagonist for your games?
Well since we are talking about alignments there are 3 different parts we aren't talking about
A professional war band of orcs (lawful evil) would probably be more open to diplomacy to say a tribal raiding party (Chaotic)
And the "You will always know he'd rather X" can be applied to the other races too
Elves would just want you to stop touching trees and beg at their feet
Dwarves would rather you stay away from their mountains
Halfings just want to be left alone in their average home
The big difference is that each of those groups could lean toward being honorable and reasonable vs malicious or selfish in motives or application. Even getting stopped by human bandits on the road has more built-in nuance than an orc encounter because at the very least it's possible that a human leader might have a Robin Hood complex, for example.
This can be done by giving evil races virtues too.
And the way I feel about evil races is that the majority are inclined towards evil while a small minority are neutral, and a small minority of that would be inclined towards good.
It's not impossible to have those nuances with evil races
See, that's the difference between "always" evil races and "mostly" evil/"evil inclined" ones, which to me are separate conversations. The introduction of nuance changes things.
Well it seems to me that you don't get anything out of "always" evil races because you prefer the role-play side of things
But "mostly" evil races would be better for you for that role yes?
I'm personally more focused on combat side of things so "Always" evil races don't bother me too much as long as their combat is diverse
I'm saying that your justification for removing always evil races because they are "boring" is a fricking lie, pus sucker. You claim they are "boring" and want to remove them, yet I see no buttblasted homosexual led crusade to remove traps for being even more boring, routine, and just there for tradition, and just there because dungeons are supposed to have them.
Always evil races getting fricked with has nothing to fricking do with being boring you ugly illiterate ass weasel
>removing always evil races
If you could halt your own personal meltdown for a spell, how about you go back and show exactly where I argued for their removal. And you still don't understand the difference between always evil races and traps. Not that you ever bothered asking that question.
You mean here?
Yeah frickface you oversimplified always evil races. You are creatively stunted and by your own fricking words we might as well remove dungeon Traps for the exact same reasons. Pull the wiener out of your mouth so you can concentrate on the discussion at hand toelicker
Dude, every single one of your replies is a non-sequitur.
Imagine doing that for a half an hour straight and still thinking that you are tricking anyone here.
He is right in calling you a colossal homosexual because you are a colossal homosexual. You dressed your transparent "I dont like thing because it offends me" and now pretend that its a smart argument.
Leftist braindamage is a pathological phenomenon that has to be studied at this point.
its long been studied.
>[Leftist brain damage] literally a solved equation. There's no reason to do anything but [ignore] them unless they aren't actually [Brain damaged leftists]. Anything you do with them that isn't [ignoring] or [kicking their ass] them just creates more problems down the line because you're allowing them to survive and [Trigger on] you, your allies, and your loved ones later on because they WILL do that.
>"Its bad because its bad"
You arent as smart as you think you are.
It's bad because it's limited yet there are those who desperately want to claim it's not. It's fine if you want always evil enemies but don't pretend they are something they are not.
It has it's uses. Not something you want to make widespread and common though.
stop trying to conflate people that think a trope is boring with people trying make everything an allegory for current politics
While this thread is garbage is reminds me of something less garbage. Personally I like evil races most when they're in a setting with plenty of other people who're more realistic and morally complex, as they become an interesting contrast to the "evil" races that maybe just have a historical cultural conflict, and can provide a great rallying point for the whole setting as they're a universal enemy. What do other anons think of this? Has anyone run games like this?
Ill be honest, its no only that he is Black, which yes would be innacurate, but also the fact that this looks like generic 5e DnD and nothing else. Corporate innacurate medeval styling, dreads included. So awful.
Everyone has heard of Racial Holy War, it's as obscure as FATAL.
Isn't it unplayable
Yes and no, the system itself is fine but the rules are VERY badly written, to the point of parody. FATAL is a horrific combination of a system that a AI would probably have a meltdown trying to run and lore that would make even the most try hard edgelord pause for a few seconds.
This is what I was talking about, as soon as they're accused of this it couldn't possibly exist and you're just making it up
It's funny isn't it? You always see them go on about being more intelligent, more rational...yet when push comes to shove and they believe they can't get what they want through rationality the first response is to turn to violence almost as though their entire act is just that, a mask for a bestial mind that refuses introspection and empathy.
>You always see them go on about being more intelligent, more rational...yet when push comes to shove and they believe they can't get what they want through rationality the first response is to turn to violence almost as though their entire act is just that, a mask for a bestial mind that refuses introspection and empathy.
Hey anon, cool it with the antisemitism...
I've only ever seen one person actually do the Evil Races = Black People thing unironically. Most people just don't like the idea of condemning an entire race of people as unequivocally that deserve to be killed on sight, it's not ACTUALLY "Oh drow are based on black people! must protec!" also the other major complaint is that it's just really lazy writing
>more than one person disagrees with me
>it must be a conspiracy!
Meds. Now.
Go away and bring back the last rightoid, he was way more interesting and better conversation
Orcs/goblins were originally intended to serve as an allegory by Tolkien, and intentionally evoked his own real-world ethnic preferences. Gygax drew deliberate and exolicit parallels to real-world genocidal massacres when discussing the 'orc baby problem'. There are quotes about this. I'm not saying there can't be all-evil races, or that they must always serve as an allegory, but they often do. The discourse didn't spring up out of nowhere.
What about basing evil races on historically evil groups? Like
I played a campgain with people here where the evil race was based on civil war era south and an anon accused the dm of being woke when it was pointed out
Anon was right.
I dunno I base my orcs on huns/mongols and people call me racist so somehow it doesn't work
Ok it's and hyperbole, I don't consider people those who call me racist (despite being mostly the same race as me)
Because Mongols weren't evil, moron.
Unless you fought them
It's pretty clear despite the (sensible) reference to the Mongol or Hunnic Hordes that Tolkien linked Orcs with the worst excesses of human brutality and created monsters where that is always turned on.
And? Many folkloric creatures resemble people and display rational thought. The problem is they eat people and don't quit. Comparing people to monsters to dehumanize them matters little, when faced against actual monsters. You know the nonhuman thing from which the comparison derives?
>all evil race
>most are blonde and blue eyed
>not allegorical
Frieren is based. Shame demons can't comprehend the allegory.
they are so because they are mimicking the humans - which are European in appearance.
If the population was made of blacks, the demons would be black too. If they were knife eared albinos with red eyes, the demons would be like them too. That said, I wonder why they (still) have horns. It should be the first thing to go since humans don't have horns.
Young demons look near indistinguishable from humans. Demons do not raise their own young, so young demons appear as defenseless human children to get taken in by human villages. As they grow older and more powerful, they no longer need to rely on pretending to be helpless and they become more and more monstrous over time.
In-fiction lore does not change or justify metafictional implications and conclusions. "She has to be naked because she breathes through her skin" level dogshit from you, man.
what are you on about anon
Because the people pushing for those concepts generally just want to make a thinly veiled strawman of some real group.
But thats not here nor there, the issue is that it is in most cases lazy worldbuilding which limits storytelling potential and makes for an overall worse story. Frieren is a good example of how it can be done well, because the nature of demons is repeatedly analyzed and their being the way they are is explained.
There is also decent odds that frieren will end with "demons actually arent all evil", because when a question is repeatedly raised narrative convention implies it will eventually get a different answer, if people keep asking "but are they though" it will get stale if it ends with "yes" every time.
The nature of demons in regards to their parasitic relationship with humanity is literally central to them as a plot element in Frieren. Theyre "human mimics", monsters which copy human mannerisms to be more effective predators while lacking the underlying understanding and drives.
They look like humans to fool humans and exploit empathy which they understand but lack themselves.
However, demons also have their own hierarchy and norms, a society of sorts, and within it overt displays of power are necessary to maintain social hierarchy. Weak demons manipulate humans, but powerful demons still need to demonstrate how monstrous they are to keep their fellow demons in check.
Thats not quite it. Theyre closer to wolves or other natural predaors. They dont feel malice for humans because they feel nothing for them, killing humans is just as natural to them as eating rabbit is to a wolf (this may have exceptions, demons like Aura clearly have a sadistic streak, or maybe its just learned behavior to throw people off balance who knows).
Theyre "evil" in that they possess an inherent incompatibility with humans.
>the people pushing for those concepts generally just want to make a thinly veiled strawman of some real group
I think this speaks more to your inability to differentiate reality from fiction, just like all the other "everything is political" homosexuals
>But thats not here nor there
It is very much "here", seeing as it's your primary concern and everything else is just you trying to find a flimsy justification to hide your pearl-clutching behind. If it wasn't your concern, you wouldn't have listed it first and foremost.
What bothers me about Frieren's demons is not that they're Always Evil, but the specific way in which they're evil reminds me enough of things in our world like Camp of the Saints to make me uncomfortable.
I dislike Frieren demons because they are just another way Frieren gets generic. It takes a nosedive around episode 3 and never picks back up again.
Let’s look at its internet rival Dungeon Meshi.
It has orcs, they are not part of the wider human-racial sphere and are actively hostile to people trying to move through or occupy their home in the dungeon.
They are boar-people. But as they are humanoid boars they display rational actions, empathy and cooperation just like both boats and humans can. Even if they display it more on an individual level to those out of the tribe.
That isn't interesting or original. Subversion of tropes becomes even more stale than the trope itself once it becomes overutilized, while true archetypal story foundations like "Good vs Evil" remain engaging and archetypal forever.
It isn't a subversion of a trope, it's portraying a people as worldbuilding as it also informs the themes. The author's not trying to be clever, she's actually being a good writer. Frieren also manages to be well written for using demons to inform the characters. It isn't interesting that a demon sees themselves as superior to Frieren because of her hidden mana level, it's interesting that Frieren has taken the demon mindset of devotion to an aspect of magic to the degree of hiding her level exclusively to defeat demons, in a way showing her as flawed as demons are which we've always known she was due to her unique outlook.
The thing that too many people don't understand about demons in Frieren is that demons are used as a vehicle to explore the differences between humans and things that only *look* like humans, which applies to elves (Frieren included) as well.
The story and Frieren herself both tell you over and over how demons are restricted by their nature and cannot escape it, superficial similarities aside they are not humans and any ideas you might have otherwise are doomed to failure. Freiren is adamant about this. The story doesn't have to TELL you that the same also applies to Elves, that every exploration of demon psychology is on some level a commentary on elves as well. It just uses demons as a framing device such that the same conclusions about elves flow naturally, and thats just good craftsmanship.
Lowering something as archetypal and full of narrative power as demons to the level of a measuring stick to show "people we like can be le bad too!!" is surface level writing at best. It's belaboring a point to the extreme - everyone old enough to shave has seen this done a thousand times - and robs the story of the potential gravitas an actual fricking demon could add to the story. When the Balrog shows up in Lord of the Rings it isn't to make a quaint point about human nature, the humans and semi-humans of the settings do that themselves by being human. It's to make a point about the depths of danger that pure monstrous evil imposes on the characters and settings, and what kind of literal sacrifices will have to be made to overcome that evil and how that sacrifice is always rewarded in the long run.
Lots of writers flee to overt exaggeration to make these points and I'm sure its in large part because trying to make them more subtly flies over the intended audiences' head, especially in media like anime, but it's not especially great writing.
It isn't to show "Elves can be bad", it's to show "Elves WILL be different, and there's nothing anyone can do about it".
Again, you don't need to rob demons of their narrative value to make this point, unless your elves are so potentially evil and destructive that they are actually on par with archetypal demons (at which point why are they elves? These terms lose all value when totally divorced from their narrative archetypes).
...Do you really see no value in less inimical societal friction? At all? Are you honestly insisting that it be 100% black-and-white?
There's nothing in Generic Fantasy FotM anime #739401 to interest me. It has become utter trope, genre fiction for the sake of itself. I'd rather read either a significantly original story with a significantly original setting that tries to hit on elements of human experience in original ways, or a proper archetypal story that engages the audience through the scale of its narrative and completeness of themes.
Though I'd probably feel differently about anime specifically if modern digitally animated shows didn't look like boring same-y crap tee bee aitch.
>I'd rather read either a significantly original story with a significantly original setting that tries to hit on elements of human experience in original ways
THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN b***hING ABOUT FRIEREN DOING!
>Lowering something as archetypal and full of narrative power as demons to the level of a measuring stick to show "people we like can be le bad too!!" is surface level writing at best.
I'm sorry are you struggling to comprehend what the word original means? Because it doesn't mean "uses every fantasy trope under the sun but subverts or recasts them to make grade-school observations"
And yet nobody has a problem with vampires and mindflayers being always evil
>And yet nobody has a problem with vampires and mindflayers being always evil
Vampires for the most part now are portrayed as tragic with some even being good and misunderstood. Nobody gives a shit about mindflayers unless they need something scary for the plot
The concept of good vampires is an extremely common trope, though. The circumstances of being a vampire incline a man to evil because he has to subsist on the blood of humans to survive, and this often comes with powerful predatory instincts. But, as seen in many stories across basically all mediums of fiction, there are still good people who were turned into a vampire against their will do actively struggle against their nature and find whatever wiggle room they can to limit the harm they do. Whether that be only draining people they see as evil, or subsisting on donated blood, or sometimes surviving on animal blood instead even though thats worse for them. The tortured vampire who hates what they have become is almost more common that straight-up evil vampires.
This story archetype basically doesn't exist for mindflayers, though, because the key lore difference is that a person turned into a vampire is still themselves, but now a vampire. Their personality persists. A mindflayer outright replaces the host they grow inside of, there is no humanity left over to temper their diet of brains that encourages them to treat humans like livestock.
Just don't make them a race per se, as in a people. Make them a force of nature, not a civilisation.
Frieren Demons are more magical constructs following instructions than a living thing, it's shown explicitly in the series that they're not 'evil' since one wore an amulet forbidding him from doing anything with malice or ill intent to the city he was in.
Oh no. It's too late. These people have all been /misc/iticized. They may look fine now, but it's a matter of time before they turn into /misc/acks. This entire thread must be purged.
>spout leftypol swill
>cry /misc/ when people tell you to frick off with your culture war homosexualry
Every time.
The /misc/tard cries out as he strikes you
Lefty/misc/ is still /misc/ moron
Unless you are writing a book, I don't see how an "all-evil" race is an issue in a game of make-believe about killing goblins with your bros.
Because unless youre playing stoned beer and pretzels, eventually people start thinking about the game you are playing. And questions like "so why cant I tell the bandits to surrender" or "so how do the goblins function if theyre all iredeemable sociopaths who habitually murder everyone around them" arise.
Its hard to explain how the orcs threatening the city have got both an organized and hierarchical army which is large and powerful enough to besiege it, and also how they are apparently mindless monsters incapable of functioning as a part of a society.
Skaven and Dark eldar work fine like that
Dark Eldar and Skaven both have an extremely complicated society that is explained at length, which is exactly whT Frieren actually does. DEldar aren't inerently evil either, Eldar are perfectly capable of living peaceful lives and even Dark Eldar can escape their fate. They just don't want to, to be a Drukhari is an active choice you make out of greed and vanity and disdain for others.
And the Skaven society DOESN'T work, that's the whole point.
>And the Skaven society DOESN'T work, that's the whole point.
It literally does to the point where they have the most numerous and powerful army in the world.
And yet despite their natural affinity with magical technology, the immensely powerful natural resources they are given, their fast as frick breeding speed and their capacity to reach maturity extremely quickly, they remain incapable of defeating the other powers, because their fundamental flaws prevent them from leveraging the way the deck is stacked in their favour.
>And yet despite their natural strength, the immensely powerful natural resources they are given, their fast as frick breeding speed and their capacity to reach maturity extremely quickly, they remain incapable of defeating the other powers,
What's Orcs in D&D?
But somehow again it's ok for Skaven to be evil because "they can't have a civilization" whatever that means? but not for orcs?
The issue with a species being fundamentally evil is that people will ask how the frick does that work. If an entire species is built entirely out of monstrous shitheads how do manage to work together without it all collapsing on itself?
With your average evil orc the question isn't answered at all. The Skaven answer it very simply. How does their civilization work?
It doesn't.
>The Skaven answer it very simply. How does their civilization work? It doesn't.
Literally orcs, goblins, ogres, etc in D&D. How does their civilization works? it doesn't.
If you say there's no need beyond that to explain why skaven are always evil then the same can be said of orcs, goblins and ogres.
>Literally orcs, goblins, ogres, etc in D&D. How does their civilization works? it doesn't.
It does. They have armies, they have societies, and it isn't explained how those societies work when someone questions how exactly they can manage to handle the flaws that the story wrote into them. If a society is made entirely out of evil shitheads with no morality who will betray you the second it becomes convenient how does this whole thing even function?
The Skaven go out of their way to point out that it doesn't, that they are constantly collapsing on themselves, that their commanders will stab each other in the back for no reason and make what should have been a clean win into an onesided massacre for the other side, that their disregard for life means their army is constantly at the verge of mutiny and that it will explode at the slightest provocation and that their own weapons kill more Skaven then their enemies ever could.
>If an entire species is built entirely out of monstrous shitheads how do manage to work together without it all collapsing on itself?
if you'd look at the drow, it is because their goddess is effectively tardwrangling the entire race to not being too backstabby while also being at least a measurable amount of backstabby because otherwise it wouldn't be fun to watch them
Tolkien orcs are inherently evil at a gene level.
He himself wrote this way
Not really, Orcs are basically just puppets of Sauron. They even are left directionless and empty once he's defeated.
Ahh so they're German then.
Evil doesn't truly exist in the abrahamic cosmology because yhwh supposedly created the world perfectly, in the Silmarillion this is explicitly made clear about Melkor/Morgoth's intended corruption of the song of creation, as eru illuvatar weaves it in seamlessly to add to the song's perfection. Melkor and his creations, including orcs and dragons, are all part of 'god's plan' and thus cannot be said to be purely evil in nature, indeed the origin of all things in creation including the Valar and Melkor's rebelling angels, are merely aspects of eru illuvatar's existence which is perfectly and completely good. Evil is actually a relative and temporal rather than spiritual consideration in Middle Earth, as everything that is and everything that will be are according to the omnibenevolent intentions of the primordial creator deity.
Interpreted thusly, we can see that Aragorn and Frodo's journey and character, their heroism, can only exist or even be initially inspired to take steps towards, due to the threat posed by Sauron and his minions. Conflict is a crucible for men, and the greatest of men come from the greatest of conflicts. The lamentable condition and fate of orcs and servants of Melkor is their enslavement to his will, which is the will of primordial chaos. They are not truly evil, they are just the physiopsychic manifestation of primordial 'fire' or 'ice', the extreme and chaotic elements of creation introduced by Melkor. They are a danger to man, there is no reason to tolerate their existence, but they are not evil in truth.
>Evil doesn't truly exist
stopped reading right here
> always-evil is a boring, lazy trope as typically implemented.
Yes yes we get it, you posted it like 5 times already in this thread but it totally wasnt you.
>Yes yes we get it, you posted it like 5 times already
Incorrect and lazy conclusion.
predictable and lazy deflection after being called out.
Dark Eldar and skaven are both explained in detail. The dark eldar have a form of morality despite their absurd levels of social darwinism, there is "right and wrong", there are taboos even they wouldnt consider appropriate to break and there is a pracrical reason they are how they are (in part anyways, being soul vampires sustained by suffering).
Skaven on the other hand are explained in much the same way Drow are. They don't work, their society is too bankrupt and self defeating to function, they are only kept in line by divine intervention that stops them from ripping each other apart. (not to mention that once again skaven DO have a system of right and wrong, even if it is incredibly backwards and different to what humans employ).
No its very simple, the orcs simply dont have humans morals or standards. Smh redditbro.
>dont have humans morals or standards
Not good enough, because there isnt "human standards" there is only "the standard that works".
Morality is simply "what allows a society to function", its the rules a people impose upon themselves because they consider them what is necessary for society to exist.
If the orcs have a set of rules for themselves which govern right and wrong then they have morality, even if that morality allows them to kill humans due to them being an outgroup. But at that point you don't have inherent evil, you simply have a factional conflict between two groups.
if the orcs do not have a system of right and wrong, then they cannot have a society, you cannot have an orc horde when there is nothing stopping any orc from clubbing any other orc upside the head at a moments notice, or from selling secrets for money, or from engaging in any other number of behaviors which would prevent them living in loose tribes let alone the numbers needed to pose a military threat.
>if the orcs do not have a system of right and wrong, then they cannot have a society, you cannot have an orc horde when there is nothing stopping any orc from clubbing any other orc upside the head at a moments notice, or from selling secrets for money, or from engaging in any other number of behaviors which would prevent them living in loose tribes let alone the numbers needed to pose a military threat.
Just cause a society doesn't have a direct aversion to murder in general doesn't mean other forms of societal cohesions will take its place such as the strong rule over the weak, or murdering (only woman) is the rule that holds everything together.
And to add to that if the said specific type of orcs is birthed from earth or magic instead of being conceived like a normal race the murder absolutely has no Bering on societal cohesions, or the race could just have no society that doesn't mean they don't exist laying waste to the wilds, and to us humans we could without a doubt label them unequivocally evil, why wouldn't we.
>Just cause a society doesn't have a direct aversion to murder in general doesn't mean other forms of societal cohesions will take its place
And those forms will necessitate a morality. Right and wrong.
Orks. They have a fairly complex society and can be temporarily bargained with, but war is how they reproduce and their reason for existence. You'll never be able to form any real peace with them because the only thing they actually want is war.
Works for Mad Max
All the Evil races are racist & fascist. That sure was easy
>Everything is Allegory for them.
You're telling me an existential evil race is not an allegory?
Anti-religious people can't understand morality? You don't say...
THE DEMONS IN THIS ANIME DO EVERYTHING
EVIL FOR EVIL SAKE WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GET?
THERE ARE PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE WHO TO DO EVIL FOR EVIL SAKE
because if you have evil creatures in fantasy people will equate them to minorities in real life and ask for changes so they aren't evil anymore.
I'm fine with always chaotic evil as a trope when I realized literally all of them are just metaphors for different groups of white people. It's just not very complex writing. Granted, neither are white people being evil but at least whites are a real group and it's fun tearing down their vile civilization.
People with no imagination can't imagine anything being imaginary.
How come people make permissions for Evil so much? From making Lucifer some sort of underdog or misunderstood badboy anti-authoritarian (he's not btw he is exclusively the rival of Adam & hates humanity)
You never see a "Always Lawful/Chaotic Races are bad!!!"
Evil for evil sake exist in real life and yeah people are born evil
serial killers
denial of evil for evil sake lead to catastrophe for everyone involved
>btw he is exclusively the rival of Adam
You have to be at least roughly at the same power level to be a "rival".
True. Adam was more powerful than Lucifer, but he has an eternal inferiority complex when it came to Adam. It's why Lucifer immediately ran to God to list all his perceived flaws instead of accept God's wisdom.
>From making Lucifer some sort of underdog or misunderstood badboy anti-authoritarian (he's not btw he is exclusively the rival of Adam & hates humanity)
Go leave, election tourist.
Everything I don't like is /misc/
Just like Nazi or CHUD, groomer and pedophile, it all became just code for 'someone I don't like'.
Unrepentant displays of religious belief are, yes.
WoD Lucifer is /misc/? Come on now... tut tut you can do better
>he is exclusively the rival of Adam & hates humanity
Uh-huh, somehow I'm the bad guy. How can you not cringe at that sentence?
Yes homie, you are the bad guy.
Just like Tipper Gore, Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian.
Your pearlclutching over fiction is embarrassing to read and the only reason you do not feel embarrassment is because any sense of shame has been bred out of leftists.
>Your pearlclutching over fiction is embarrassing to read
Are you incapable of reading? Do you not understand what my complaint with the Abrahamic prick is?
>Lucifer
>Quran
Peak moron.
what did god do to you?
If he can't blame God he would have to hold himself accountable for his own failings
That's what it days in the Quran bro. The only cringe here is (you)
>Unrepentant displays of religious belief are /misc/
reddit is that way, sir.
lurk moar
you're way out of your depth
Because they're fricking mentally ill ideologues.
Everyone believes they're immune to propaganda. Being "immune" is not a matter of being smart enough, but being willing to think about the media you're consuming to learn the meanings it's teaching you, intentionally and otherwise.
To use an example that has nothing to do with politics, a lot of people tend to internalize the idea of action movies as being true. They way people fight, how they can survive, all of these things are unintentional lessons taught to people that they come to accept. And sure, people will tell you they know movies are fake, but then they'll still tell you that specific shit is true through their actions or words. Saw it so much in the military, kids thinking that the shit that happened in movies was true.
One of the best ways in my mind to challenge people to break their internal bias is to ask them if they could accept if their opinion was proved 100% unequivocally wrong by science or whatever.
Like ask a troony if they would be able to change their beliefs if science 100% proved that they were just mentally ill. Or ask a Bible thumper if God himself showed up & told them that gays were okay would they change.
If a person retreats into denial over a purely rhetorical contrast to their beliefs then they aren't worth talking to. If they can accept it & be like, "Well I don't believe that but I guess if it was 100% proven I'd have to be okay with it" then they are a decent person to have a discussion with
But God already said Gays are an abomination
God can change his mind. Or it could have been all an elaborate ruse/test of faith. I'm not going to justify every little issue you have with it bro. Failing that question is like failing the breakfast question. Anyone who can't accept the terms of the hypothetical fails at being a person who can have reasonable discourse
Rightoids are hypocrites, more at 11
Don't be a c**t just because he is
I dunno I'm just saying, he seems like exactly the kind of person you're talking about. Pretty much anybody with severe politicsbrain will be.
Of course, but its better for him to highlight himself through is own unruly behavior than for us to roll in the mud with him.
I'm not looking at starting a debate, but if somehow a 100% provable God made any kind of decree it wouldn't matter what religious scholar decided, God overruled it (unless you're a israelite who cares about killing each other over halakhic ovens)
>let's not roll in the mud with him
What a bizarrely composed response, for here. You're correct, I do try to be better than that kind of thing generally, I shouldn't get lazy because it's anonymous.
>I'm not looking at starting a debate
>proceeds to try to argue yet again that he knows God better than the devout
Lol
I'm saying the rhetorical question is more important than the Semitic semantics.
You still can't accept the possibility of being wrong so therefore you've lost the ability to be objective. You are declaring that is science God & the universe itself could tell you a single truth & youd still reject them.
There's no need to entertain hypoyheticals that are just impossible.
Good and evil exist, whites are superior and God hates gays. You will die painfully.
I'm white, I'm Christian, & I can still have an honest debate because that does not matter in the eyes of the Lord. Be more like Jesus & stop using his name to robe yourself in His splendor. Jesus loves you. He asks of you to love your neighbor. Won't you be my neighbor here today? The Satan in my heart tells me to hate. I won't lie I have a hard time not hating. Hate is a well polished sword at my side & I grab its hilt daily. But Jesus would not ask me to draw it & so I endeavor to follow Him as I should follow him in all things. One day I hope I can leave my sword at home, but I am fallible & I fear what might beset me if I disarm myself of hate. So instead of trusting Jesus completely I still carry my sword. I think you carry a sword too. I think you hone it every day. I can't begrudge that. But swords are for battlefields, not for gentle talks. What man can speak peacefully brandishing his sword?
If Jesus himself stood before you, arms outstretched & asked you to love your neighbor would you deny Him? Would you clutch your sword before the Lord? Would you grab for Hate, instead of Love?
The material world is not what matters. Material differences are not what matters. Love matters. I don't ask that you accept others beliefs. I ask that you accept that your beliefs can be wrong. Did not the Pharisees make the same mistake?
Lol, nice job outing yourself. So typical. God and religion is just an excuse for your belief and actions, not the reason for them. "I like God, so I have a get out of jail free card to be a piece of shit forever!"
Based dubs BTFO sub 80s
See you're taking this personally. This is not a one sided question did you miss the other side of the coin in this post?
It's not about pushing ANY agenda. It's about seeing if someone even has the ability to be reasonable.
>See you're taking this personally
I'm not even Christian, lol. Thanks for proving my point with more psued drivel though.
You image in
was from a personal perspective. So you want to deride me responding from that perspective? Either argue from a clear point or not at all.
>AIEEEE STOP NOTICING WHAT IM DOING
lol
... can you clarify this?
You/anon/whoever posted
taking a personal voice. I responded to you/anon/whoever & that personal voice at face value here
. You then claim you/anon/whoever do not actually identify with the previous post.
Which is it? If you perhaps try discussion instead of volatile reactionary posts we could talk honestly.
>Literally unable to respond in any way that isn't pre baked phrases/images and buzzwords
I wonder at times how it feels to live as someone who is less cognizant than a chat gpt algorithm regurgitation machine
I'd think it doesn't feel very good, considering how angry a lot of them seem
Ironic
What is a "100% provable god"? What criteria does something have to meet in order to be "provably" divine?
It is whatever criteria the person being asked needs it to be. Whatever you need to know without a doubt that it's the ultimate arbiter of everything
>Pretty much anybody with severe politicsbrain will be.
>also you: REEEEEEEEEE RIGHTOIDS REEEEEEEEEE
Ironic
Hey cool it with the antisemitc remarks.
>God can change his mind.
This part must be bait. This is practically asking someone to go into a theological rant and start quoting late Roman and Medieval sources.
Frick the Stoics, frick Logos, frick predestination, frick eternalism, ESPECIALLY frick the clusterfrick of crowbarring Free Will into that frickfest of a framework.
>Frick the Stoics
*Angry Marcus Aurelius noises*
Free Will, Stoicism, Buddhism, & all of that can be made to fit within Christianity
I mean, if that happens you can just quote the actual places in the bible where he does so
Even if you construe it as "it was just a test" it's still helping the point
Why it's always the same kind of homosexuals who spam hobby boards with blatant, low effort shitposts?
Orcs were made by Gruumsh. Why would Gruumsh give them the capacity to defy him?
The idea comes from the school of writing that thinks
More dialogue = Better
Always evil basically means no alternatives or interesting interactions. There's no reason to try and do anything but wipe them out because you can instantly know and predict that they will never do anything good or worthwhile and the longer you allow them to live the more harm they will be capable of.
So of you want a story that does more than that use a different race silly billy
What is your opinion of
?
>no interesting interactions
Are you telling me you're incapable of making an interesting social encounter with literal Satan? Fricking amateur.
Back on the day people had a problem with them because they were always made sexy/rad as hell and people wanted to play as them without being chaotic evil morons. For some reason we all had a problem with admitting that outright, so it was always disguised with "muh racism". The consequences were disastrous.
I once got a leftoid on Reddit to accept the potential in always evil Orcs by suggesting making them Germanic. Teutonic and Wagnerian horns, demonic-looking Renaissance parade plate armor, evil barbarian tribe culture, etc. At least the Orcs were cool that way though.
Let's be honest. Most of them who b***h about these things often see themselves in the demons and evil races and worried that others might see it too. Especially when it comes to how they act. For example the demons in Frieren fit them perfectly. They care nothing of others but themselves, often enough any love they have tends to be lust. They see children as pets to groom into something "they" want. These people want access to other people things and are quick to take it by force if they can get away with it. They have no honor, nor do they see others are equals. They think themselves as a Princess that should be given everything they want and anyone who doesn't is mean or greedy. I mean these people rarely make anything just whine to be added into someone else project till they force them out and change it into some gay drama about "Their Mary-Sue" OCs being the "BESTEST EVAR" while shitting on the old characters everyone like in hopes everyone will see her as the best. Then whine that the toxic fans didn't like it.
>doesn't like fictional evil
>doesn't like real world evil
Sounds like a person with principles.
a race all being evil is fine as long as it makes sense but most natural biological entities that aren't mind controlled won't fit into that.
It works best if the race is specifically designed to be evil. The sranc for example in prince of nothing are an artificial creation in a lab designed to get off sexually on murder and rape and hating all other living beings. If your biology dictates that you have an extreme urge for violence and murder and that's the only thing you can get enjoyment out of and that you lack a sophisticated human intelligence its perfectly believable there can be no human sranc.
Another example would be something like khorne berserkers in 40k which have mechanical impants in their head that cause them to be extremely angry all the time and find violence extremely pleasurable
Huh... I should probably have finished those books...
But absolutely there needs to be a good reason for them to be all evil. The 'I am not racist! I made all my native Americans into monsters!" bullshit is just the other side of "no, you see my character is racist, not me!'
>'I am not racist! I made all my native Americans into monsters!"
Why do you dyehairs always invent problems to be mad at? This is just "if women wear chainmail bikinis then why don't MEN run around shirtless in loincloths (pls ignore Conan and the entire life's work of Frazetta)" shit all over again.
>"no, you see my character is racist, not me!'
Playing racist PCs/with racist PCs is fun though. One of my current favorite PC dynamics in one of the games I'm in is between my PC and another who thinks I'm a godless abomination and only tolerates me because I'm currently working for the church whereas my PC is in fact a godless drunk who despises the church for declaring them an abomination, so there's lot of fun snipping and arguments between the two that have since developed into a one-sided crush on the other PC's part. If you can't invest yourself into a fictional world with its own morality and values then maybe you shouldn't be playing roleplaying games at all.
Literally every time I have seen someone play a racist it leads to them fricking around with the party. Or its just a veil to be angry at whatever race they are angry at.
Also I think you missed my point about the native American thing.
>every time I have seen someone play a racist it leads to them fricking around with the party.
Must suck having no friends and having to play with online randoms then, because this has never been an issue in any game I've played and I've been in plenty where someone plays a character who has some sort of prejudice or another, including myself.
I'm curious, would you also clutch pearls if someone played a noble character who looks down on poors?
Someone from Fantasy Nation A who has beef with Fantasy Nation B?
Someone who has a religious or ideological dispute with someone else?
A highly sexist character from a culture with very strict gender roles (for example, a Bretonnian in WHFRP)?
Or is it only race where you draw the line because you need to win the culture war against all those le nazichuds that apparently lurk in the shadows of every TRPG space?
>Also I think you missed my point about the native American thing.
My point was you have no point since you have to make up strawmen to be angry at.
Another good example are the Cravers from the Endless universe
Creatures built for combat and nothing else by an ancient race during a galactic civil war, all they know is war and their biology compels them to consume or die since they burn out so quick.
There are rare Cravers that are able to live on non-Craver worlds, but their compulsion to consume remains (shown in game as a depletion of planetary resources per Craver pop)
But I'm sure they've gotta be an allegory for some human group on Earth
Always evil races are stupid, they couldn't function.
They don't work with human-like dependencies, but you can have dietary or reproductive dependencies either not bothered by a void of prosocial behavior or inseparably contingent on Evil actions like the Illithid.
Could also go with being stuck in a rut of Bronze Age brutalities in a world where that is cosmologically Not Right.
Always Evil (biologically have a morality fully incompatible with ours and goals that conflict with our ability to survive)
Nonwhites seem to function very well.
So you think the walking dead is shit?
That's a good example of why always evil tends to be shit. The show is barely about the zombies and more about human drama because the zombies by themselves cannot actually carry the show or serve as the actual primary conflict thus the need for human antagonists.
They don't need to be you ignorant chucklefrick
>make all evil race
>give them evil god
>evil selfish guys want to go to evil heaven so they mostly follow the rules
>???
>somewhat functioning society
the real problem is trying to pretend orcs/goblins whatever societies could actually hold their own against good/civilized armies, they just cant but that doesnt mean they just go extinct, you will find them everywhere civilization isnt, for extra spice make the evil god send a champion every 100 years or something that unites the clans in a evil crusade to beat civilization back when they get too close
If you have an always-evil race that's done well, you won't need to tell the players that they're always evil.
Nobody needs to be told that Mindflayers are always evil when they need to eat brains to survive and reproduce. They simply can't exist alongside any other humanoid race without subjugating them.
A monstrous race being monstrous should ideally have them be cursed and twisted in a way that makes them incapable of surviving without such cruelties. If a dark god is gonna make an army of footsoldiers to destroy humans, elves, etc, then he should probably do more than just make them all sociopaths who get dreams about killing humans. Have that dark god really frick 'em up and make them just outright incompatible with any sort of peaceful coexistence.
Then it no longer matters if the players want to try and reach out and find any of the 'good' members of the species, because it's doomed to end in tragedy regardless.
>have cheap and easy ressurection due to bullshit
>suddenly all these only evil things can live alongside people, technically
shit's weird out here.
>use mindflayers as execution for criminals
>they use their mind manipulation powers to help cure the mentally ill and become great therapists
What now, homosexual?
Why would Mindflayers go along with that?
Fewer mentally ill people means fewer criminals. Society becoming peaceful and safer means less food and chances to reproduce.
You've invited in a nest of powerful mind-manipulators who have every reason to push for laws being more draconian with execution as a penalty for as many crimes as possible.
That idea isn't bad because mindflayers are evil. That idea is bad because mindflayers aren't a bunch of spineless cucks.
A mindflayer turning someone else into a mindflayer to make new mindflayers isn't something you can resurrect someone from cheaply. Certainly not without killing the new mindflayer.
If the plan for peacefully living with a monster race involves asking the monster race to pretty-please doom themselves to a slow extinction, then it's not actually going to work in the long term on any major scale.
The party can already lock whatever sort of monster they want in a cage and treat them like a pet. Saying that the monster is evil or not doesn't add anything to the situation.
Does anyone else find the naming convention in this anime absolutely hillarious?
High school English and Literature teachers have ruined two generations of critical thinking, shoving unnecessary subtext into literally everything. And they're not stopping.
They do know, they're smug about it, and your whole shtick where you complain about how "democrats r the real racists" just makes you look stupid and weak. We live in a society run completely by israelites and israeli interests, your continued failure to acknowledge this in any way proves the inauthenticity of whatever vision you have. Even stinky troons are starting to come to terms with ZOG's existence, you need to stop being a golem for anti-white israelites.
>democrats r the real racists"
Yeah that's totally what I did you shiteating moron.
Really telling that it even went beyond your fricking IQ you subhuman.
Legit cant tell if you are false-flagging or just legit have sub-room temperature IQ,
Naive fricks in the bread.
You don't have to be committing evil, all the time, everywhere, all at once. to be evil.
You simply need to choose it once.
All people have the capacity for it.
to claim otherwise is to deny the evil in oneself.
every single one of you could physically exert the force necessary to slit a babies throat.
oh I could never.
why?
because you are restrained on threat of pain and death. because you have self interest. everything society needs to be evil is already in reach.
all one needs is apathy towards an animated claim of life. not even revulsion. The demons don't even hate, they just don't care.
I think you are moronic and embarrassing.
that shows the quality of your thoughts more than anything.
No, it shows that you are a mouth breathing inbred mongoloid with delusions of grandeur.
ur using a lotta syllables. u compensatin'?
>always
Hi, I don't tie orcs or goblins to any particular race and still think always-evil is a boring, lazy trope as typically implemented.
Nah, get fricked. Every time you guys come in trying to do this dance, as though we can't just see how people act on other boards and in reality. Just to borrow the other side's own now popular phrase of
>It’s not happening
>It is happening but its irrelevant
>It’s happening but its a good thing
>Why didn’t you try stopping it bro?
what the frick are you even going on about you delusional freak?
Learn to fricking tell apart reality and fiction
>You should not consider morals within fictional settings or scenarios
That's dumb. You're dumb. You should always keep a moral frame of reference for your thoughts lest you lose your moral frame of reference for your actions. The point is that shit is used as a template for real life justification.
killin'
grillin'
and
eatin'
chil'en
makes me happy.
this is justice.
>I must destroy other people's fun because if I fight evil orcs I'll call a black man the "n-word"
Meanwhile
>BAN this book/movie/etc. it's turning people gay/into trannies!
Here's the problem with that. Children are not sexual, so why do they keep talking about sexuality to children? It's wrong.
What do you mean why? Are you against sex ed in general too? You'd rather your kid dive in without a clue instead of getting information? We all know how worthless parents can sometimes be, it's been a modern problem of parents letting unfiltered media and the internet by itself raise kids too.
Holy shit dude.
>Strange adults with deviant sexual behaviors should not be speaking to prepubescent kids.
>No
>You're making some pretty big assumptions & ultimatum here
homie, what the frick is wrong with you?
Why are you such a colossal fricking moron?
Are your parents siblings?
Is that why you are physically unable to talk like you are a normal person?
>You'd rather your kid dive in without a clue instead of getting information? We all know how worthless parents can sometimes be, it's been a modern problem of parents letting unfiltered media and the internet by itself raise kids too.
homie, why is that your problem?
Why the frick do you feel the urge to talk to others people's children about sex?
Thats not your responsibility you fricking creep.
Let me repat that to make sure it gets through that thick skull of yours:
They are not your children.
They are not the "community"'s children.
Parents get to teach their children whatever the frick they want.
And how the frick did you even arrive at this? You are like a monkey on a fricking typewriter you string random shit together in hopes that it will somehow make a cohesive argument in schizophrenia-adled brain of yours.
Get a fricking grip on reality.
Where are you getting this? Where did I say I would be speaking? You are literally inventing your own schizo fanfiction yet you call me strange?
> You are literally inventing your own schizo fanfiction yet
No thats what you have been doing the whole time and people have been trying to point it out to you.
Get a fricking grip on reality.
No, you are literally confusing like 3 different people as one person.
No.
Get a grip on reality.
He's
the one who brought it up, not me homosexual. Don't fricking @ me again
No.
You rephrasing and repeating argument doesnt make you smarter, Tipper Gore.
LEARN.
TO.
TELL APART.
REALITY.
AND.
FICTION.
Get that through your thick leftist, inbred skull.
Come on what?
Are you on fricking drugs?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just stupid?
See
>make friends with illithids to kill beholder
Come on
>strawman
shut up homosexual
Vampires are a a good example of an ALL EVIL race. They have to feed on the life blood of mortals and live for ages. Everything about how they operate means they, psychologically, to survive, must come around to seeing people as short-lived cattle. They are simply too different to coexist with.
Demons in Frieren are similar. They don't have families, so they don't require bonds to cooperate and spread their genes. Their best survival strategy is blending into human society and enacting pure sociopathy.
>We have had this same discussion since the fricking 80s and rightfully concluded that this is dumbest shit imaginable.
>SINCE THE FRICKING 80s
1920s. Probably earlier.
Christ I left for a hour and its now all /misc/ shit?
Damn man that sucks
This thread was never going to be good. It's literal disingenuous bait and with an anime related OP image as well.
Yeah but it imploded under a hour
Guess the kids are home from school