Johto is actually the worst region objectively like this hate should have existed before. Just because you can go back to kanto doesn't mean you're the best game in the franchise
Because shills for new gens need a scapegoat to deflect from flaws in new games and Gen 2 is so old most of the fanbase hasn't played them so they're easily gaslit.
this splits the morons and people who played the game
i know for a fact because i had to fight whitney a frick ton
not only because she was hard back then but also i was playing gold on a dead save battery
i KNOW that b***h has a milktank
>Silver is bad
It's the stripping scene isn't it?
not why i like silver but he is the best rival down to his theme being fricking awesome
especially the hgss remix
HGSS has nice music and graphics and shit but the engine is just so bad, I've tried to replay it two times and never bothered going into kanto. GSC was more enjoyable for me
>HGSS has nice music and graphics and shit
A lot of the music was either on par or straight-up downgrades like Goldenrod City's new theme. They also have the wrong music playing in Mt. Moon and Seafoam Islands for some reason. As far as graphics and art style are concerned GSC also have a far better cave and night time palette, and they have more unique tree sprites despite being GB/C titles, I think HG/SS only has two different trees.
Sorry anon, but I just don't enjoy gameboy sounds. It sounds like tinnitus. I'm sure it sounds better on the actual hardware, but I haven't played them on the actual hardware in 20 years. The graphics are also obviously nothing too special, being a fricking gameboy game
I generally enjoy gen 4's style of music and graphics, and I feel HGSS is very strong in those areas. It also of course had some other good additions like the autorun or following pokemon, I liked the game a lot when it first released, but I haven't been able to get back into it.
Celadon City didn't have its own theme in GSC but they brought it back for HG/SS. It should have been a remix of the theme it had in FR/LG instead of using a Johto dungeon theme. There's just no reasoning whatsoever to explain the change to Mt. Moon.
To be fair, the videos by TheSmithPlays led to a Vanilla+ romhack of Crystal that actually improves the game significantly without making it feel overly fanmade. GSC honestly needs just a handful of minor changes and fixes to be great.
This. On my 2nd play through and it’s great. It’s like what Crystal could have been if GameFreak had more time and brains.
>now
Nobody ever liked it
Gen 2 is near singlehandedly responsible for killing interest in Pokemon, which is why Gen 3 underperformed as the interest was on the decline after Johto
Even back then I remember kids finishing everything and basically going "that's it?" and no one liking any of the new Johto shitmons
It wasn't until HGSS came out and fixed many of the flaws, along with zoomers who wanted easy cred on social media sites like this one who peddled "old good, new bad" to desperately fit in with their peers that the "Gen 2 was good" narrative came along
All these videos do is reinforce that older players (and most new players who actually sit down to play GSC) find them absolutely revolting and go either play RSE to play a fun good game or RBY for soul, and the seething from johtosois here is a pushback from zoomers trying to show they're "different" and "cool" for liking objectively terrible games
PokemonChallenges has probably been making videos longer than most of these Johtogays have been alive
False. Pokemania was “dead” before Gold and Silver ever released for 2 main reasons.
1) Gen 1 had too many releases that were too similar and too close together, especially in Japan where they had four versions.
2) Several millions of Gen 1’s sales were just by casuals/randos joining in on the new fad to see what it was all about and then finding out it wasn’t for them only to jump off the ride. Gen 2’s sales, for the most part, just show how many people in the Gen 1 sales pool actually became true fans and decided to stick around. Gen 2 didn’t do anything to kill Pokemania. If anything, it did its best to succeed in keeping the real fans around and engaged, as well as continue producing additional fans.
It's not. It fails to do what it sets out to do. It's supposed to retain the feel of Crystal (It does not) while making it more like modern games (Regardless of what modern is, it's does not)
It may be a fine romhack to the pile of romhacks, but it explicitly does not do what it is meant to do.
unironically i think challenge runs are actually a big reason why because it makes people go no items autism, when the items exist to help you supplement any things like level deficiencies.
Red is probably the worst example for that argument. Those gays usually go in underleveled because his team is mostly terrible and Pikachu is setup fodder.
>now
Nobody ever liked it
Gen 2 is near singlehandedly responsible for killing interest in Pokemon, which is why Gen 3 underperformed as the interest was on the decline after Johto
Even back then I remember kids finishing everything and basically going "that's it?" and no one liking any of the new Johto shitmons
It wasn't until HGSS came out and fixed many of the flaws, along with zoomers who wanted easy cred on social media sites like this one who peddled "old good, new bad" to desperately fit in with their peers that the "Gen 2 was good" narrative came along
All these videos do is reinforce that older players (and most new players who actually sit down to play GSC) find them absolutely revolting and go either play RSE to play a fun good game or RBY for soul, and the seething from johtosois here is a pushback from zoomers trying to show they're "different" and "cool" for liking objectively terrible games
PokemonChallenges has probably been making videos longer than most of these Johtogays have been alive
>Pokemania was still alive and going strong when Johto was a thing.
the massive sales dip says otherwise
as does the immense dropoff of photographic evidence of a "Pokemania" during the time of Gen II
You can tell a zoomer wrote this lol. Gen II didn't kill anything. Interest Pokemon was beginning to decline in the spring and summer of 2000 before GS even came out in America.
>Gen II didn't kill anything. Interest Pokemon was beginning to decline in the spring and summer of 2000 before GS even came out in America.
almost like people saw the designs forthcoming and decided the series was dead
For me, it was the overuse of babyshit in the anime. It helped create the children's game reputation it now has in the west. Sugimori said it was intentional, then dialed it back with RS's designs, but the damage was done.
I will say that Gen II's marketing was really poor compared to Gen 1. In Gen 1, they marketed everything. Cute mons like Jigglypuff would be alongside cool mons like Nidokings and oddbals like Exeggutor. In Gen 2, the cute mons were the only thing they promoted. You barely saw shit like Scizor, Steelex etc. and that contributed to the perception of the series being for toddlers.
>Nobody ever liked it >It wasn't until HGSS came out and fixed many of the flaws, along with zoomers who wanted easy cred on social media sites like this one who peddled "old good, new bad" to desperately fit in with their peers that the "Gen 2 was good" narrative came along >All these videos do is reinforce that older players (and most new players who actually sit down to play GSC) find them absolutely revolting and go either play RSE to play a fun good game or RBY for soul, and the seething from johtosois here is a pushback from zoomers trying to show they're "different" and "cool" for liking objectively terrible games
What the FRICK are you talking about? Crystal is one of my favorite games and my first Pokemon game. I've seen countless kids in school playing GSC on their GBCs. Hell, I've met people IRL who have told me they learned English from playing Gold and Silver. Clearly all of those schoolkids must've been watching Poketubers and said "ermmm these games are bad because they KILLED pokemania", right? Quit getting your opinions from others you selfless homosexual. I don't know why this post made me so mad even though it's obvious bait. Something about it is like the synthesis of all the garbage that gets posted on this board
You can tell a zoomer wrote this lol. Gen II didn't kill anything. Interest Pokemon was beginning to decline in the spring and summer of 2000 before GS even came out in America.
You will never be 18 (because you will die of a heart attack before then thanks to the vaxx kek)
>Gen 2 is near singlehandedly responsible for killing interest in Pokemon, which is why Gen 3 underperformed as the interest was on the decline after Johto
Very true
Because shills for new gens need a scapegoat to deflect from flaws in new games and Gen 2 is so old most of the fanbase hasn't played them so they're easily gaslit.
wrong, it's from some reddit review video where he calls out his followers for being moronic
5 months ago
Anonymous
im not clicking that, does he actually address the context that at the time pokemon weren't broken down into regional pokemon and any new ones in generation 2 were considered new discoveries
5 months ago
Anonymous
>im not clicking that
literally the first 30 seconds, i'm not arguing with you mysteryBlack person
Every time some moron posts a Johto hate thread, the Johto defense force gets extremely defensive about every single criticism. It's hilarious and makes them perfecty sharty targets, unless they are the sharties themselves, of course. With how they post in this thread and dismiss everything, I wouldn't be surprised.
>Every time some moron posts a Johto hate thread, the Johto defense force typically attempts to refute criticism by either explaining how it's not inherently negative or the game design philosophy behind the game that started development nearly three decades ago. [Nothing statement that could apply to every "defense force" or fandom for a particular game or generation]
FTFY. Stop being disingenuous or learn to start differentiating satire from serious statements without tone indicators, zoomer.
this, but unironically >I MUST use a roster comprised of only new Pokemon! >I MUST not learn the intricacies of the game! >I MUST not acknowledge that the game's intention was for the final boss to be overleveled as otherwise my whining about the consistent level scaling would have a counterargument!
>>I MUST use a roster comprised of only new Pokemon!
I would have had a worse time playing gen 7-9 than I did BW if I had to force myself to use their ugly pokemon. I'll stick with gen 1-4 pokemon thank you
Thankfully this website exists so we don't have to actually defend Johto from criticisms. We can just say everyone who thinks they're bad is from this website and is a troll.
I don't say Johto is bad to get a rise out of people, I say it because it's true. Reasons have been posted, there have been no actual counter-arguments. Name-calling, accusations of trolling, non-arguments, but no rebuttals. It only strengthens the argument that Johto is bad.
When your opponents are underaged subhumans that think ESL babble like "thoughever" is the pinnacle of humor, are you really under any obligation to argue with them?
The level curve is awful, as is pokemon distribution. The HP bars drain at a glacial pace making the game take way longer than it has to. The new moves and pokemon turned competitive battles into a stallfest. Most Johtomons are absolute shitmons. The new pokemon were literally designed to sell merch according to the artist, something they went back on with Gen 3 because fans complained that they were too "babyish". Johto itself is small and boring and Kanto is supposed to make up for it but Kanto is even worse than in genwun.
nor did I post it to troll. I posted my grievances with the games as requested.
Johto is pathetically easy to nuzlocke >get geodude >absolutely destroy the first 4 gyms >chuck, jasmine and pryce rank as some of the easiest gyms in the series >super low level curve so no need to ever grind >e4 is shit, Lance gets killed by anything with thunderpunch and ice punch >entirety of Kanto is just mashing A for 2 hours >Red is a joke because his movesets suck ass
The reason why you hear "nuzlockes are incompatible with Johto" is because nuzlockes are usually designed to be replayable and nobody wants to replay through the super long and boring Team Rocket grunt sections where you have to fight 50000000 level 17 Zubats or Kanto which is an even bigger snorefest
what are some good pokemon games
5 months ago
Anonymous
All Pokemon games that aren't gen 2
Johto is a cool, lore-filled region on the cusp of modernization, full of both ancient traditions and new technology. The fans that love catching cool monsters and exploring such a locale love these games. The fans that love big numbers and competitive viability hate them since everything is outcompeted by what came after.
>she's relying on ChatGPT bots because no actual humans like gen 2
Lmao
5 months ago
Anonymous
even diamond pearl, x y, sun and moon, sword and shield?
>the Johto defense force
most of them are autistic neets who live on the board
they see every single thread that gets made and have filters set to make sure they never miss a mention of anything johto-related
In SmithPlay's case these are mostly just clickbait to shill his rom hack
But there may be actual organized shilling against GSC and/or HGSS. After let's go, a gen 2 remake isn't beyond the realm of possibilities, so it could be a way for GF to lower expectations before the remake. The timeframe would fit for when DP hate started too
>organized shilling against GSC and/or HGSS
The "shilling" is mostly from battlegays. The main criticisms are almost always battle-related, and YT Pokemon content has shifted towards them. Nobody really complained about the "vibes."
No, nuzlockes are just a subset of that. Nuzlockers don't care about how difficult obtaining Pokemon is, the games are easy enough where you don't need to put up with that. They also aren't complaining about how slow the battle system and HP bars are because speeding up the games is normal. The competitive scene is also the worst out of any gen.
>Nuzlockers don't care about how difficult obtaining Pokemon is
Wrong. Low encounter rates, evolutionary items, and levels are all very important for evaluating a Pokemon in a Nuzlocke. >the games are easy enough where you don't need to put up with that
This does not apply to everyone with "newcomers" in particular struggling >They also aren't complaining about how slow the battle system and HP bars are because speeding up the games is normal
Yep, as the game is shorter than 4 >The competitive scene is also the worst out of any gen.
That's Gen 1 where some types are essentially unusable, permafreeze and paraspam, unnecessary limitations on moves such as Counter, setup moves other than Amnesia being generally unrewarding, and a plethora of other issues that don't actually make the game fun. >MUH SNORLAX
Three required Pokemon instead of one unlike Gen 2
The main issue with nuzlocke newcomers, as all the poketuber reactions show, is they don't grind to level caps, which is horrible to do on normal speed. You can win easily with common encounters. This doesn't only apply to nuzlockes either.
Gen 2 is consistently at the bottom of total battles on Showdown because nobody enjoys it, simple as.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Gen 2 is consistently at the bottom of total battles on Showdown because nobody enjoys it, simple as.
That's a result of Gen 3 being a generally more fun metagame (at least in OU) and 1 having the charm of being the oldest game. Most people that actually have played both Gen 1 and 2 will tell you that 2 has a fundamentally better metagame
5 months ago
Anonymous
Is that why so more people consistently play gen 1? For charm? That's so funny.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>People enjoy archaic and heavily flawed games wtf?
Yeah
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Is that why so more people consistently play gen 1? For charm?
No, because it's the Brawl Minus of Pokemon where the goal is "abusing" the mechanics as much as possible to make your mons as broken as possible and cheese your opponents as much as possible to win
the mechanical experience is unique and one of a kind, and heavily laden in obscurity and nuance such that building for the tier becomes a highly mentally stimulating arcane practice, even while the play itself essentially consists of the most gambling of any other metagame
but Pokemon is fundamentally a gambling game anyway, it's just Gen1OU brutally exposes you to that fact
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Most people that actually have played both Gen 1 and 2 will tell you that 2 has a fundamentally better metagame
is that why Gen 2 is the least played and's not and never has been even close to Gen 1's playcount? >1 having the charm of being the oldest game
that's cope
nobody actually cares about that
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Nuzlockers don't care about how difficult obtaining Pokemon is
Wrong. Low encounter rates, evolutionary items, and levels are all very important for evaluating a Pokemon in a Nuzlocke. >the games are easy enough where you don't need to put up with that
This does not apply to everyone with "newcomers" in particular struggling >They also aren't complaining about how slow the battle system and HP bars are because speeding up the games is normal
Yep, as the game is shorter than 4 >The competitive scene is also the worst out of any gen.
That's Gen 1 where some types are essentially unusable, permafreeze and paraspam, unnecessary limitations on moves such as Counter, setup moves other than Amnesia being generally unrewarding, and a plethora of other issues that don't actually make the game fun. >MUH SNORLAX
Three required Pokemon instead of one unlike Gen 2
Gen 1/RBY OU has a surprisingly healthy scene. Really up there actually. I think gen 2 is generally liked by high end players but not by the playerbase at large. Gen 4 and gen 5 are the opposite where they're disliked by the high end players but more liked by regular players. Gen 3 is the most popular pre-fairy gen by far, obviously.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah that looks right to me. I was a gen 4 UU gay myself.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>I think gen 2 is generally liked by high end players but not by the playerbase at large
Gen 2's metagame wouldn't work with the zoomer ADHD riddled playerbase who are used to the major power creep brought on by the nu-gens.
Is that why so more people consistently play gen 1? For charm? That's so funny.
Gen 1 is really glitchy to the point it spawned a lot of interest in the game and shaped it's own bizzare metagame (i.e. Body Slam doesn't paralyze normal types, auto crit moves for fast pokemon, OPness of Psychic pokemon + attacks, 1/256 chance of missing a 100% accurate attack). Gen 2 has it's glitches, but none to the level Gen 1 provided.
5 months ago
Anonymous
5 months ago
Anonymous
why is gen 3 so popular with compgays?
5 months ago
Anonymous
It was the last gen before the power creep of gen 4 and 5. Also some may like the lack of physical and special split.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Not only was it the last gen before the power creep, it lacked the problems of the first two gens, where Gen 1 was massively imbalanced in general, and Gen 2 was a boring stall meta
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Gen 1 was massively imbalanced in general
it's not that imbalanced
gen 2 is more imbalanced arguably
gen 4 is more imbalanced arguably
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's just very balanced while still allowing a good amount of creativity, but not so much it makes the tier random. People dislike gen 4 more nowadays because it's power level is a little high for a generation without preview.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>People dislike gen 4 more nowadays because it's power level is a little high for a generation without preview.
people dislike 4 more nowadays because of the gay smogonhomosexualry bans that 3 doesn't have, which arbitrarily limit your freedom while you're forced to deal with shit like heatran and latias and stealth rock
5 months ago
Anonymous
>why is gen 3 so popular with compgays?
because it's the most balanced and offers the most player creativity and expression
5 months ago
Anonymous
>I think gen 2 is generally liked by high end players
translation: the most severely autistic
>That's Gen 1 where some types are essentially unusable, permafreeze and paraspam, unnecessary limitations on moves such as Counter, setup moves other than Amnesia being generally unrewarding, and a plethora of other issues that don't actually make the game fun.
and despite all that Gen 1 OU gets over double the playcount of Gen 2 OU (which is the only one in the 4 digits), no hyperbole
also,
amnesia being the only viable set up move is false
paraspam (gen1ou) is more competitive and more fun than toxic spam (gen2ou)
all gen 1 types are usable, including Bug >MUH SNORLAX >Three required Pokemon instead of one unlike Gen 2
"The Big 3" aren't required
Johto Snorlax is considered to be essential
5 months ago
Anonymous
>amnesia being the only viable set up move is false
What other setup move is being used in Gen 1 OU then? Reflect? >paraspam (gen1ou) is more competitive and more fun
LOL >and more fun than toxic spam (gen2ou)
It's self-inflicted sleep spam, but sure. >all gen 1 types are usable, including Bug
Yeah Bug, Fighting, Fire, and Poison types sans Victreebel do very well in Gen 1 OU with not a single Pokemon of those types having over 1% usage. >"The Big 3" aren't required
Stop getting your information from YouTubers.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>What other setup move is being used in Gen 1 OU then?
Swords Dance absolutely, and Growth is viable
if you want to count defense boosts, then yes, Reflect, Light Screen, I've even seen Defense Curl >Yeah Bug, Fighting, Fire, and Poison types sans Victreebel do very well in Gen 1 OU with not a single Pokemon of those types having over 1% usage.
convience has little to nothing to do with viability >Stop getting your information from YouTubers.
I literally play the game and make my own teams I get to high elo with
high enough that I can no longer get matches
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Swords Dance absolutely, and Growth is viable
On who? Victreebel? >convience has little to nothing to do with viability
Reliability, consistency, and specialization do however. Fighting types and especially Bug Types all fall short on these
5 months ago
Anonymous
Unclear which move you're questioning >Fighting types and especially Bug Types all fall short on these
there are members that only require proper teambuilding and set-crafting, like Parasect and Pinsir and Machamp and Poliwrath
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Unclear which move you're questioning
Both really. >Parasect
One use with its Bug Typing being an active hindrance >Pinsir
Same as Parasect. >Machamp
Potentially ok, but unreliable and really not worth using. >Poliwrath
Actually bretty good because of Amnesia and Hypnosis, but once again Fighting actively brings it down.
5 months ago
Anonymous
it's actually its grass typing that's more of a hindrance
bug has no common weaknesses
and you can have entire scholarly debates about which mon is the best swords dance user in the tier
5 months ago
Anonymous
>and you can have entire scholarly debates about which mon is the best swords dance user in the tier
I'd think Sandslash has the most potential with enough setup thanks to its surprisingly solid good type coverage, along with being durable against most Physical attacks. Victreebel is a better mon, but SD is not one of its top moves with it only really enhancing Hyper Beam.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>I'd think Sandslash has the most potential
as do I
but Kingler fanboys are a race and Victrebel exists
and that's not all of the contenders either
?si=0yDfmbNxSyzKHtDN
?si=coPkOg0StM-nX5fJ >Victreebel is a better mon
I disagree
Johto is pathetically easy to nuzlocke >get geodude >absolutely destroy the first 4 gyms >chuck, jasmine and pryce rank as some of the easiest gyms in the series >super low level curve so no need to ever grind >e4 is shit, Lance gets killed by anything with thunderpunch and ice punch >entirety of Kanto is just mashing A for 2 hours >Red is a joke because his movesets suck ass
The reason why you hear "nuzlockes are incompatible with Johto" is because nuzlockes are usually designed to be replayable and nobody wants to replay through the super long and boring Team Rocket grunt sections where you have to fight 50000000 level 17 Zubats or Kanto which is an even bigger snorefest
> "Many people claim that the Johto and Unova games are the best in the series. Those people may be blinded by nostalgia."
> "I believe Scarlet and Violet are objectively the best games in the franchise, now made even better by the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero DLC, available now for the Nintendo Switch family of systems. You can purchase these games on this video's sponsor, use the special code in checkout to get 20% off your purchase"
Johto was heavily propped up by millennial nostalgia. Millennials have largely aged out of the fandom so people these days just see the games for what they actually are- deeply flawed and lacking compared to the rest of the series.
They're just really badly designed on multiple levels. If you didn't grow up playing them you won't think too highly of them compared to the rest of the series.
The level curve is awful, as is pokemon distribution. The HP bars drain at a glacial pace making the game take way longer than it has to. The new moves and pokemon turned competitive battles into a stallfest. Most Johtomons are absolute shitmons. The new pokemon were literally designed to sell merch according to the artist, something they went back on with Gen 3 because fans complained that they were too "babyish". Johto itself is small and boring and Kanto is supposed to make up for it but Kanto is even worse than in genwun.
Thankfully this website exists so we don't have to actually defend Johto from criticisms. We can just say everyone who thinks they're bad is from this website and is a troll.
gen2 is the peak of the series. monster designs, gyms, story, lore, region, postgame, all peaked in johto
>The level curve is awful
Yet it's still more difficult than Gen 1, which means it accomplished one of its goals. >"difficulty" in a pokemon game lol
Meaning the complaint of the level range is even more insubstantial >The HP bars drain at a glacial pace making the game take way longer than it has to.
This only applies when the Pokemon has an abnormally high amount of HP, otherwise it's just slightly below par compared to some of the other games like Gen 3 >The new moves and pokemon turned competitive battles into a stallfest.
Snorlax is new? >Most Johtomons are absolute shitmons.
Yep they're somehow still more competitive than most of Gen 3's roster was upon their debut >The new pokemon were literally designed to sell merch according to the artist
and assist the animators for the anime as that was one of the most important facets of the franchise while Gen 2 was in development, but Hoennbabies don't like to acknowledge that. >Johto itself is small
Yet the main game is just as long as RBY. >and boring
Entirely subjective and an unpopular opinion even with many of the detractors.
Gen 2 Pokemon are on average better statistically than Gen 3 Pokemon.
5 months ago
Anonymous
If we're strictly talking designs of the pokedex (lol imagine caring about the actual games, they're all nipslop)
On average gen 2 > 6 =1 > 3 > the rest
5 months ago
Anonymous
of the ones that do >a pseudo-legendary >legendaries >base stat of 140 or above
johto is, after all, another minmax generation, unlike hoenn which tried to take a more balanced approach to its dex and not make anything overpowered (it succeeded)
5 months ago
Anonymous
>wtf why didn't they design Pokemon around having abilities in Gen 2!
Dumb argument
>The level curve is awful
Irrelevant to the gameplay because every pokemon game is a cakewalk to beat. The only people who whine about this are shitlockers who deserve to whine and cry and moan and should be punished for playing pokemon incorrectly. >The HP bars drain at a glacial pace
False, there are webms comparing the speeds to gen 3 and gen 4 is faster. Also, emulators lmao. >The new moves and pokemon turned competitive battles into a stallfest
Compshitters are second only to shitlockers in "people whose opinions don't matter" when it comes to pokemon, so good, let them suffer. >Most Johtomons are absolute shitmons
False >The new pokemon were literally designed to sell merch according to the artist
It's a game franchise meant to make money, this is not a flaw unless you're a filthy commie leftist. >something they went back on with Gen 3
And gen 3's designs suck shit compared to gen 2's. Salamance is the ugliest dragon in the franchise and I can count on one hand gen 3 pokemon I would ever want to use. >Johto itself is small and boring
It's more interesting and less of a pain to navigate than Hoenn and more open and explorable than SHitnova. >Kanto is supposed to make up for it but Kanto is even worse than in genwun.
Kanto in HGSS has tons of pokemon to catch (notably legendaries), a remade cerulean cave, Mount Silver, and with Rock Climb there are a handful of other new areas to explore in both Johto and kanto.
>inb4 Kalosperm
Everything after HGSS including gen 6 is not real pokemon and are dogshit games.
Johto is a cool, lore-filled region on the cusp of modernization, full of both ancient traditions and new technology. The fans that love catching cool monsters and exploring such a locale love these games. The fans that love big numbers and competitive viability hate them since everything is outcompeted by what came after.
Here's how I see it: >Gen 1 = Sonic 1
Good start, but a little rough around the edges >Gen 2 = Sonic 2
Took what made the original great and expanded upon it >Gen 3 = SA1
Effectively a soft-reboot for the series, controversial at release, but many fans who got into love it >Gen 4 = SA2
Built on the previous game, people are split on which one is better, tons of people got into the series with this entry, it's usually either this entry or the first that people started with >Gen 5 = Sonic Unleashed
Game that had polarity upon release though people exaggerate how "hated" they were since most liked it and now they infamously have the most overbearing fanbase who can't seem to shut up about how "underrated" they are >Gen 6 = Colors
Good game that brought a ton of people back into the series but has been met with much retroactive criticism, typically from fans of the Gen 3-5 / SA1-Unleashed faction that feels like this entry betrayed them because it catered to older fans who were more critical of the series middle ages. >Gen 7 = Sonic Lost World
Oddball entry that people either love, are indifferent towards, or hate. These games tried to experiment with the formula to mixed reactions from the fandom. >Gen 8 = Sonic Forces
Has tons of problems, but people often exaggerate how "bad" they are. People's disappointment turned into outright hate even though at worst, the games are "ok" and could even be pretty fun >Gen 9 = Frontiers
Game that tries to go for more of an open world approach, may have some critics but many consider it one of the best entries and think it shows a promising future.
That said, the only ones of the Sonic section I really like are Sonic 1, 2, & Colors. The others are ok though (Forces is a little eh though)
>ignores sonic 3 >ignores sonic and knuckles
opinion discarded you are in no position to speak about sonic. Come back after all emeralds runs of both games and the fusion game and watching both live action movies. play the sonic RPG for fun just because of how good it is.
5 months ago
Anonymous
nta but what would be the pokemon equivalents for those games then
Gen 7 were the last games since gen 5 that perfectly evoked the mystery of Pokemania from gen 1. Anyone who disagrees is a gay c**t and your face will meet my fist.
Envy, sour grapes.
Succeed breeds jealousy. They know the Johto games are among the best, if not the best, so they do their utmost to put it down because they know they cannot bring up their favorite to the same level, or an even higher one, than Johto games.
It's crabs in a buckets. Bringing you down to MY level because I know no matter what I do I will never be able to reach yours.
Because very very deep inside they know that if they acknowledge Johto as being good they cannot continue to justify the continuous downtrend of the franchise, so they do this to protect their fragile consoomer egos.
Kalos kids are old enough to use electronics now. They get jealous of good games like gsc and hgss, and soitubers figured that out. Now they pump out anti-johto slop for easy views
Johto was fun but Gen 1 was just such a paradigm shift it cannot be compared to, and it left behind huge shoes that gen 2 failed to fill. You have to understand how monumental Gen 1 was and how it warped the entire world around it for almost 2 years straight, it was a lifestyle. Compared to that, Gen 2 was just another game in the series, and this is before even nitpicking at the other issues with gen 2.
genwun was just the fortnite of its day, liked as a fad and not because it's actually a quality game
the series didn't get properly good until masuda took over with R/S/E
true, and by todays standards the gameboy was archaic, but for its time it was monumental. Even though the games were buggy messes with broken mechanics noone gave a frick because the novelty of it was so unique back then. When Gen 2 came out though the magic wasn't as special anymore, and a lot of people attribute it to a problem with Johto.
That said, the Gen 2 pokemon and the shoddy level distribution in the game really failed to capture the same spark Gen 1 had. Gen 2 was expansive but watered down in comparison.
>really captures the mystery of gen 1 Pokemania with all the new Pokemon around.
Thanks for allowing me to just completely disregard all of your posts itt as evidently you have no idea what the frick you're talking about with the "mystery" of Pokemania". The myths and playground rumors for Gens 1, 2, 3, and even 4 had nothing to do with a large roster or Pokemon availability (if anything that would have the opposite effect);it was for Pokemon that had been revealed for the subsequent games, "mythicals" that nobody knew how to get without cheating, set pieces that seemingly had an alternative purpose like the Ruins of Alph or Mossdeep Space Center, material from the anime, and fabricated events or Pokemon from fans. By the time Gen 5 had released the internet was already widely accessible at home, killing any rumors for the games as any question you'd might have regarding new Pokemon could just be found in a matter of seconds.
Because Pokemon Challenges shat on it and because shitlockers hate it because it's hard 🙁 (it's an incredibly easy region to nuzlocke, my first nuzlocke was SoulSilver and it was a cakewalk).
Can't believe that a obvious johto troll thread is getting this much traction. /vp/ is filled with too many autists that take the bait. >b-but you're posting here too
To remind you guys how disappointed I am in you.
>Schizo wiki by an unovabort
have a nice day you mentally ill subhuman.
When it comes to originality as an entire sequel generation, no generation underperforms more than gen II. It added 2 types, rebalanced matchups, fixed a bunch of bugs, and added a handful of new pokemon (most not even obtainable until postgame). And that was about it. Same formula, marginal improvement on graphics, just more of the same. It was so underwhelming, padding it with a second region was the only way it could even retain any relevance.
It was the generation that started the even number curse. Every even numbered generation sucks. 2, 4, 6, 8, all terrible. 1, 3, 5, 7, & 9? All incredibly good generations.
The only thing Johto did right was introduce shiny pokemon.
breeding, held items, night and day, the time/day system in general are continuously overlooked elements which gen 2 introduced but are staples of the series since
>When it comes to originality as an entire sequel generation, no generation underperforms more than gen II. [COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF THE GAME THAT ONLY GETS MATCHED BY GEN 3]
Shit, Gen 2 was pretty fricking good from what you're saying. >and added a handful of new pokemon (most not even obtainable until postgame).
Bait >And that was about it. Same formula, marginal improvement on graphics, just more of the same
So, every other gen before 6 as that was the only gen to impress anyone with its graphics? Amazing point about Gen 2, 3, 4, and 5. >It was so underwhelming, padding it with a second region was the only way it could even retain any relevance.
More revisionism as most people (not the vocal minorities) were in awe upon learning about Kanto being back even after learning it wasn't as expansive as it was in RGBY. To this day most people still think the Johto games having an entire second map was fricking cool even if it could've been much more. >[FANFICTION FROM A SELF-PROCLAIMED SV FAN]
Nobody asked
pretty much every gen needing a gimmick really hurt them in the long run
megas while cool arnt used again
and is why too restrictive in terms who can use it
z moves are lame
dynamax is unbalanced as hell
the only good gimmick so far is terra type
being able to change type for the rest of the battle either for double stab or to buff the ice type by not making them ice types
no it fricking dosn't suck you stupid c**t gen 2 is the best in the series homosexual go stick your head in a fricking blender its gen 7 that is the worst you gay c**t!
Cute how the Johto-antis in this thread have done nothing to debunk any of the counterarguments made against them despite earlier claiming that it was the other way around. Really makes you wonder if there's some falseflagging going on or most of the criticism against the games is just the same regurgitated garbage
>Pokemon on a decline >Youtubers scared of Pokemon losing traction (it won't. It's to big to fail at this point) >worried they may have to get actual jobs >"quick, I have to claim it's not bad somehow" >Can't do Gen 1 because it's GameFreak's baby and would only emphasize how much shilling they do in the recent games >They go with Gen 2 to claim that we're fine with slop so we should just continue eating slop
Forgot to mention that Youtube commenters just parrot their favorite Youtubers opinion because they're unable to form a single original thought of their own and enjoying watching someone means you can never disagree with them ever
>Why is it so trendy to hate on Johto now? How and why did this happen?
johtoddlers are frickin' annoying and spammed "gen ii da bess" / "gsc/hgss da bess" for years on end
naturally, people dug into the matter and discovered it wasn't all it was cracked up to be
got it from google images
you forgot to comment upon the reddit spacing as well
you gotta get your ad hominems on point man, how else you gonna convince ppl
>johtoddlers are frickin' annoying and spammed "gen ii da bess" / "gsc/hgss da bess" for years on end
So, just like Hoennbabies before ORAS released, the fetuses with "DUDE CYNTHIA", and how Unovabortions are rn?
>Nuzlockers don't care about how difficult obtaining Pokemon is
Wrong. Low encounter rates, evolutionary items, and levels are all very important for evaluating a Pokemon in a Nuzlocke. >the games are easy enough where you don't need to put up with that
This does not apply to everyone with "newcomers" in particular struggling >They also aren't complaining about how slow the battle system and HP bars are because speeding up the games is normal
Yep, as the game is shorter than 4 >The competitive scene is also the worst out of any gen.
That's Gen 1 where some types are essentially unusable, permafreeze and paraspam, unnecessary limitations on moves such as Counter, setup moves other than Amnesia being generally unrewarding, and a plethora of other issues that don't actually make the game fun. >MUH SNORLAX
Three required Pokemon instead of one unlike Gen 2
>replaying a literal children's game
who cares >replaying a literal children's game, but with autistic rules
who cares >replaying a literal children's game, but with autistic modifications
who cares >not playing a game at all
who cares
Can't believe that a obvious johto troll thread is getting this much traction. /vp/ is filled with too many autists that take the bait. >b-but you're posting here too
To remind you guys how disappointed I am in you.
if this wiki isn't protected it literally means frick all, I can take any post from this thread that criticises Johto and post it there as a copypasta to use and future posters will use it to cope whenever someone says something mean about Johto
There's a question about sharty shit you have to answer.
Used to be really easy to bypass because one of the questions was literally a yes or no question but they changed it recently.
>They made a wiki on trolling a board of already downtrodden autists
Why does every underage troll have to try and reach Bluespike levels at all times?
Btw, I spend maybe 10% of my PC time here because I just want to make a shitpost or two and not seem too pathetic, what the frick is it that makes these people put so much time into this shit? Are they the new residents and the rest of us are just lurkers now?
unova dex had the lowest vote total of in the pokemon day poll
the first place popular pokemon in the pokemon day poll was greninja, a kalos mon, 2 generations removed after the fact (aka no recency bias)
I played Crystal for the first time a few months ago in order to get Celebi into Pokemon Home so I'm not blinded by nostalgia, and honestly I think the main problem is that gen 2 is mostly shitmons.
That coupled with the atrocious level balancing (why the frick am I still finding trainers with Pokemons at sub-20 levels when I have seven badges) just make the game a slog.
It's just impossible to have a 6 mon team because of the low experience.
It's the one generation that actually encourages you to be a shitter and just focus on your starter, and when it comes to that Feraligart is by far the best pick.
Dude, by the 8th gym I was focusing solely on 3 Pokemon and even the three of them ended up in the low 40s.
And this is despite the fact that I spent hours farming against wild Pokemons to bring newcomers up to the same level.
Honestly, if I had known this before I would have just sticked to using Totodile and I would have probably beaten the game way faster.
It wasn't, my Electabuzz and Feraligart were enough to destroy the Pokemon League first try, it's just I spent plenty of time trying to keep a 6 mon team only for it to be pointless because the game just isn't designed for it.
>Also, what was the point of the babymons?
it was a marketing ploy
the only viable two were magby and elekid, because they were designed on the whole to be uselessly weak, to trigger le protective instincts
so basically just a failed attempt to exploit human psychology and cash-in on women children and gays
They’re autistic homosexuals who have played the game dozens of times into adulthood and have come to the conclusion that Johto is the worst because it was incredibly easy with bad level scaling. Something nobody noticed as a kid or when the game was fresh.
TLDR: Manchildren fretting over the balance of a decades old region
>Johto is the worst because it was incredibly easy with bad level scaling.
It's funny, because I've seen lots of people claim both this and that it's actually too difficult because of bad level scaling. It's a coinflip on any given day which narrative you'll see.
the level curve is so bad it’s both
the Johto portion is hard because there’s nowhere to grind, and the Kanto portion is easy because everything is 30 levels under you
You don’t need to grind though. You can easily beat the league with a team in their late 30s. Then Kanto’s bosses will feel appropriately leveled, at first at least, then they kind of fall off because of how open world Kanto in Johto is. Blue is just overleveled enough to make the fight interesting. Bosses being around 10 levels over you was intended and is a good thing.
Now Red’s a different story, you will typically have to grind a few levels for him. You will get there in your late 40s and want to be in your mid 50s. I would have lowered the levels of all of his mons except Pikachu by around 5. That’s the only thing I would have changed though except for maybe adding a few road blocks here and there in Kanto so that the gym leaders can have a better level curve - actually doing that alone may solve the Red problem.
gen z are resentful people still love and enjoy the old games and their beloved gen 5 was never that popular
you'll notice that everyone who hates on gen 2 is a massive gen 5 fan
Because the modern way to defend your favorite is to attack what you see as the most notable rival, ie. the most popular one that isn't your favorite. HG/SS is universally loved and 2nd Gen is for many millennials peak comfy and nostalgic to the point of perfection. I've played since late 90's and while I liked Gen 1, Gen 2 is what really sucked me in. The further we go after Gen 5, the more new players hate on the old gens. We're now at a point where young adults grew up with X&Y, and they often HATE anything older than that, especially anything the millennials love the most.
3rd gen was the aesthetic and atmospheric peak of Pokémon, mechanically anything from 4 to 7 was better though. Gen 2 is peak nostalgia. So Gen 4 remakes are understandably loved by older players.
Because when you grow up you become smarter and thus able to analyze things more objectively and after playing the games more you realize Johto isn't that good.
Emerald has a much worse level curve, yet anti-Johtogays never complain about that. All Gen 1-4 games also suffer from being severely underlevelled by the Elite Four, some even more so than the Johto games, yet anti-Johtogays always ignore that.
>actually GSC are better >no HG/SS are better
They're both terrible for reasons that have been detailed repeatedly. HG/SS was a massive missed opportunity to actually fix Johto's many issues.
>HG/SS was a massive missed opportunity to actually fix Johto's many issues.
What are the problems with GSC exactly? >gutted Kanto
HGSS revives many of the areas GSC left out due to storage issues. >distribution
Larvitar, Misdreavus, and Murkrow were all added to Johto through the Safari Zone. Only Houndour is still Kanto-only. People pretend HGSS's distribution is bad purely because of Houndour, why people are so attached to this fricking dog is beyond me. >difficulty
Some gyms have been buffed like Bugsy's Scyther using U-turn now and Morty's Gengar hits harder than ever with Shadow Ball. HGSS also has rematches and Platinum's Battle Frontier as well. Red's battle now has Hail for chip damage and many of his pokemon know Blizzard.
What else is there that people complain about? Absolutely nothing. Saying that HGSS doesn't address GSC's issues is bullshit when you look at the games further.
Kanto is still empty and boring with the HG/SS additions, also having any Johto pokemon at all still stuck in Kanto is a massive blunder. The level curve is still trash as we all know.
>Kanto is still empty
Empty how? There are trainers in Kanto, gym battles in Kanto, a little quest involving Team Rocket, what makes HGSS Kanto any more empty compared to other regions? This has never meant anything, dumb /vp/ meme. >also having any Johto pokemon at all still stuck in Kanto is a massive blunder.
No it's not, there being Pokemon left to discover in Kanto is a good thing. >The level curve is still trash as we all know.
Meme. The level curve functions exactly as it's supposed to, you are supposed to be in the 30-40 range around Clair.
>Empty how?
Nothing actually interesting to see or do. Designed way more like a scenic tour of Kanto than an actual second region.
>No it's not, there being Pokemon left to discover in Kanto is a good thing.
Johto pokemon being exclusive to Kanto will never make sense no matter how Johto fans try to spin it. It just doesn't.
>Meme. The level curve functions exactly as it's supposed to, you are supposed to be in the 30-40 range around Clair. >It's supposed to be bad!
Uh-huh.
>Nothing actually interesting to see or do. Designed way more like a scenic tour of Kanto than an actual second region. >Gym Badges >Roadblocks >Evil Team encounter >Areas of interest/landmarks such as Seafoam Islands and the Pewter City Museum >Legendary Pokemon >It's own Pokemon League >An additional final boss >"UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, WHERE'S THE EVIL TEAM BASE, BROS?!?" >Johto pokemon being exclusive to Kanto will never make sense no matter how Johto fans try to spin it. It just doesn't.
Glad you agree that Beldum being exclusive to Sinnoh Route 228 makes no sense. >It's supposed to be bad!
Nope, but their intention to have Red outclass every other trainer via a level gap with fulfilled.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>>Gym Badges
The gym fights are bad >Roadblocks
Oh boy, another sleeping Snorlax. So interesting. >Evil Team encounter
The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion. >Areas of interest/landmarks such as Seafoam Islands and the Pewter City Museum
Seafoam Islands is an incredibly basic dungeon. They already redesigned the layout from how it was in R/B/Y/FR/LG, they should have made it bigger and more interesting to navigate. It's mogged hard by Sinnoh's dungeons in its own gen, which it should be held to the standard of since it's a new dungeon anyway with the layout changes in HG/SS. >Legendary Pokemon
Same shit as in R/B/Y/FR/LG, boring >An additional final boss
Where they inexplicably replaced an Espeon to give him another Water-type for worse coverage >Glad you agree that Beldum being exclusive to Sinnoh Route 228 makes no sense.
Beldum is a Hoennmon, what are you even talking about with this >Nope, but their intention to have Red outclass every other trainer via a level gap with fulfilled.
His team is worse than Cynthia's
5 months ago
Anonymous
>The gym fights are bad
Lol, blue is one, if not, the best gym fight but go on queen >Oh boy, another sleeping Snorlax. So interesting.
Yeah, you have to wake him using the pokeflaute in your radio, a cute throwback >The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion.
Moving the goalpost >Seafoam Islands is an incredibly basic dungeon. They already redesigned the layout from how it was in R/B/Y/FR/LG, they should have made it bigger and more interesting to navigate. It's mogged hard by Sinnoh's dungeons in its own gen, which it should be held to the standard of since it's a new dungeon anyway with the layout changes in HG/SS.
You're also forgoting revamped viridian forest and cerulean cave >Same shit as in R/B/Y/FR/LG, boring
It's actually different since you can catch the gen 3 legendaries >Where they inexplicably replaced an Espeon to give him another Water-type for worse coverage
Lapras is more iconic >Beldum is a Hoennmon, what are you even talking about with this
Really? In which route does it appear? >His team is worse than Cynthia's
Not an argument, we are talking about hgss not about platinum
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Really? In which route does it appear?
dumb argument, it's from the hoenndex just like the hoenn starters despite not being able to find those in the wild on a route, nobody is going to seriously argue that mudkip is not a hoennmon
5 months ago
Anonymous
the same could be said about muh Houndour
5 months ago
Anonymous
>The gym fights are bad
So only Emerald and Platinum have good regions? Ok >Oh boy, another sleeping Snorlax. So interesting. >Oh boy, another Sudowoodo posing as a tree. So interesting. >The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion.
Still your obligatory evil team "plot" whether you like the length or 'quality' of it or not. >The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion.
They did. There's an entire Gym there now. >Same shit as in R/B/Y/FR/LG, boring
Latios and Latias were in R/B/Y/FR/LG? Interesting >Where they inexplicably replaced an Espeon to give him another Water-type for worse coverage
Blizzard w/o evasion checks is more threatening than anything Red's Espeon in GSC. Also an absolutely irrelevant nitpick >Beldum is a Hoennmon, what are you even talking about with this
where can I catch beldum in Hoenn? where can I catch zorua in Unova? where can I catch ogerpon in Paldea? >His team is worse than Cynthia's
Irrelevant
You're essentially just seething that Johto is different from whatever zoomer region you were raised on, most likely Unova. Pokemon are not tied to the region they were introduced ALONG WITH, there aren't "Johto pokemon" it's more accurate to call Pokemon by their generation. Some Gen 2 pokemon were discovered in Kanto, that's how a lot of the older games functioned. You can't actually catch a Beldum in Hoenn. A lot of Sinnoh cross-evos needed transferring or swarms to obtain. That's just how it is. You're confused because GSC and HGSS are the only games with multiple regions so it communicated this idea better. >It's supposed to be bad!
The curve capping lower than what you're used to doesn't magically make it bad.
>The level curve functions exactly as it's supposed to
Lmao
The champion's strongest pokemon is level 50, your pokemon is in the 40s around that point, that's done on purpose. It's functioning as it's supposed to.
HGSS' only flaw was removing room decorations instead of working it into Platinum's Secret Base feature, and not giving Blackthorn City a unique tileset and remix similar to what they did with Ecruteak City and Cianwood City.
Apart from those two things, HGSS are objectively the perfect Pokémon games.
HGSS did some nice stuff, I liked the autumnal theme to Ecruteak as well. GSC has far superior night time and darkness palettes however, with much worse hardware to work with. Also, what the frick was up with them removing the infinite resets for the SS Aqua? I liked using those trips to grind and having a reason to use the ship to continually travel between the regions was neat. Removed for absolutely no good reason.
Yeah, HGSS did a lot of good stuff, like what you mentioned. I also liked them making seperate themes for each Legendary Beast, splitting Ecruteak and Cianwood's themes and adding a whole ass set of optional routes with a beatiful theme and tileset with a Safari Zone at the end allowing you to get all but one of the Kanto-exclusive Johto-Mons with just 5 Badges, something anti-Johtogays love to ignore. But it also did a lot of weird stuff. Not really enough to detract from the game's overall quality, but just questionable choices.
The problem with GSC is that it does the fake non-linearity thing after Morty where you can fight Chuck, Jasmine and Pryce in whatever order but they keep everything from badge 5-7 low level instead of them adjusting to what order you go. GSC you can excuse because of technical limitations but it's still in HGSS which is simply indefensible
People enjoy being contrarians for the sake of being contrarians.
Johto is actually the worst region objectively like this hate should have existed before. Just because you can go back to kanto doesn't mean you're the best game in the franchise
>OBJECTIVELY SPEAKING
Wrong
Galar exists, so no
no it fricking isn't you gay c**t! go stick your head in a fricking blender
no its not gay c**t! aloloa is homosexual
>Johto is actually the worst region objectively
Johto is empty
But Unova is a circle
surely it's a tie?
>objectively
i have a way of dealing with contrarian homosexuals where i comes from...
i shoot them
contrarian clickbait
i have a way of dealing with contrarian homosexuals where i come from...
i shoot them
the nostalgia wore off
they played the original game and not hgss
But they're barely better.
Doesn't make sense, gsc are better than remakeslop.
>Muh physical special split!!!!
Kys
this
this splits the morons and people who played the game
i know for a fact because i had to fight whitney a frick ton
not only because she was hard back then but also i was playing gold on a dead save battery
i KNOW that b***h has a milktank
not why i like silver but he is the best rival down to his theme being fricking awesome
especially the hgss remix
HGSS has nice music and graphics and shit but the engine is just so bad, I've tried to replay it two times and never bothered going into kanto. GSC was more enjoyable for me
>HGSS has nice music and graphics and shit
A lot of the music was either on par or straight-up downgrades like Goldenrod City's new theme. They also have the wrong music playing in Mt. Moon and Seafoam Islands for some reason. As far as graphics and art style are concerned GSC also have a far better cave and night time palette, and they have more unique tree sprites despite being GB/C titles, I think HG/SS only has two different trees.
Sorry anon, but I just don't enjoy gameboy sounds. It sounds like tinnitus. I'm sure it sounds better on the actual hardware, but I haven't played them on the actual hardware in 20 years. The graphics are also obviously nothing too special, being a fricking gameboy game
I generally enjoy gen 4's style of music and graphics, and I feel HGSS is very strong in those areas. It also of course had some other good additions like the autorun or following pokemon, I liked the game a lot when it first released, but I haven't been able to get back into it.
>Seafoam Islands
Didn't exist in GSC.
Celadon City didn't have its own theme in GSC but they brought it back for HG/SS. It should have been a remix of the theme it had in FR/LG instead of using a Johto dungeon theme. There's just no reasoning whatsoever to explain the change to Mt. Moon.
>Celadon City
Cerulean City*
>There's just no reasoning whatsoever to explain the change to Mt. Moon.
Likely an oversight. Mt. Moon also uses the wrong battle background.
?si=hKK-kj0xrwSoft-5
Who cares
The smith plays guy is actually a big johtogay. His Crystal hack is really good and a big improvement
To be fair, the videos by TheSmithPlays led to a Vanilla+ romhack of Crystal that actually improves the game significantly without making it feel overly fanmade. GSC honestly needs just a handful of minor changes and fixes to be great.
This. On my 2nd play through and it’s great. It’s like what Crystal could have been if GameFreak had more time and brains.
False. Pokemania was “dead” before Gold and Silver ever released for 2 main reasons.
1) Gen 1 had too many releases that were too similar and too close together, especially in Japan where they had four versions.
2) Several millions of Gen 1’s sales were just by casuals/randos joining in on the new fad to see what it was all about and then finding out it wasn’t for them only to jump off the ride. Gen 2’s sales, for the most part, just show how many people in the Gen 1 sales pool actually became true fans and decided to stick around. Gen 2 didn’t do anything to kill Pokemania. If anything, it did its best to succeed in keeping the real fans around and engaged, as well as continue producing additional fans.
It's not. It fails to do what it sets out to do. It's supposed to retain the feel of Crystal (It does not) while making it more like modern games (Regardless of what modern is, it's does not)
It may be a fine romhack to the pile of romhacks, but it explicitly does not do what it is meant to do.
People finally started thinking for themselves for a change
no they didn't they let homosexual youtubers make their opinions like gay homosexuals
red is too hard for nuzlocke gays so they have to cheat in levels
unironically i think challenge runs are actually a big reason why because it makes people go no items autism, when the items exist to help you supplement any things like level deficiencies.
Red is probably the worst example for that argument. Those gays usually go in underleveled because his team is mostly terrible and Pikachu is setup fodder.
It's not that it's hard, it's that there's no quick way to farm to get to the level 60 minimum.
>Level 60 minimum
50 is good enough for Red and is an entirely realistic level range to be at for him
>now
Nobody ever liked it
Gen 2 is near singlehandedly responsible for killing interest in Pokemon, which is why Gen 3 underperformed as the interest was on the decline after Johto
Even back then I remember kids finishing everything and basically going "that's it?" and no one liking any of the new Johto shitmons
It wasn't until HGSS came out and fixed many of the flaws, along with zoomers who wanted easy cred on social media sites like this one who peddled "old good, new bad" to desperately fit in with their peers that the "Gen 2 was good" narrative came along
All these videos do is reinforce that older players (and most new players who actually sit down to play GSC) find them absolutely revolting and go either play RSE to play a fun good game or RBY for soul, and the seething from johtosois here is a pushback from zoomers trying to show they're "different" and "cool" for liking objectively terrible games
PokemonChallenges has probably been making videos longer than most of these Johtogays have been alive
Pokemania was still alive and going strong when Johto was a thing. It was gen 3 that killed it
>Pokemania was still alive and going strong when Johto was a thing.
the massive sales dip says otherwise
as does the immense dropoff of photographic evidence of a "Pokemania" during the time of Gen II
Pokemania was dead before gen 2. It was killed by the PS2.
>Gen 2 is near singlehandedly responsible for killing interest in Pokemon
>Singlehandedly
lol no. Fads go out of style all the time.
You can tell a zoomer wrote this lol. Gen II didn't kill anything. Interest Pokemon was beginning to decline in the spring and summer of 2000 before GS even came out in America.
>Gen II didn't kill anything. Interest Pokemon was beginning to decline in the spring and summer of 2000 before GS even came out in America.
almost like people saw the designs forthcoming and decided the series was dead
>cutemons are BAD!
Is that why Yellow is the best selling version of Gen 1?
Pikachu is an everymon.
My little boy cousin said it was his favorite Pokemon alongside Charizard, 3 weeks ago.
For me, it was the overuse of babyshit in the anime. It helped create the children's game reputation it now has in the west. Sugimori said it was intentional, then dialed it back with RS's designs, but the damage was done.
I will say that Gen II's marketing was really poor compared to Gen 1. In Gen 1, they marketed everything. Cute mons like Jigglypuff would be alongside cool mons like Nidokings and oddbals like Exeggutor. In Gen 2, the cute mons were the only thing they promoted. You barely saw shit like Scizor, Steelex etc. and that contributed to the perception of the series being for toddlers.
>In Gen 2, the cute mons were the only thing they promoted
They promoted non-cute pokemon like Ho-Oh and Donphan early on
no it isn't you gay c**t! its gen 7 that did that and that homosexual needs to be punched in the face
>Nobody ever liked it
>It wasn't until HGSS came out and fixed many of the flaws, along with zoomers who wanted easy cred on social media sites like this one who peddled "old good, new bad" to desperately fit in with their peers that the "Gen 2 was good" narrative came along
>All these videos do is reinforce that older players (and most new players who actually sit down to play GSC) find them absolutely revolting and go either play RSE to play a fun good game or RBY for soul, and the seething from johtosois here is a pushback from zoomers trying to show they're "different" and "cool" for liking objectively terrible games
What the FRICK are you talking about? Crystal is one of my favorite games and my first Pokemon game. I've seen countless kids in school playing GSC on their GBCs. Hell, I've met people IRL who have told me they learned English from playing Gold and Silver. Clearly all of those schoolkids must've been watching Poketubers and said "ermmm these games are bad because they KILLED pokemania", right? Quit getting your opinions from others you selfless homosexual. I don't know why this post made me so mad even though it's obvious bait. Something about it is like the synthesis of all the garbage that gets posted on this board
You will never be 18 (because you will die of a heart attack before then thanks to the vaxx kek)
>Gen 2 is near singlehandedly responsible for killing interest in Pokemon, which is why Gen 3 underperformed as the interest was on the decline after Johto
Very true
no its gen 7 that did that you gay c**t!
bortys are at the age where they realise HGSS was the best and has been praised as such so they needed to retaliate
borts are the biggest defenders of hgss beside johtoddlers, with even the latter's boomerest shitting on it
Because people hate that hgss is still king and that sun and moon is the worst
contrarian zoomers incapable of an original thought
Because shills for new gens need a scapegoat to deflect from flaws in new games and Gen 2 is so old most of the fanbase hasn't played them so they're easily gaslit.
>pic
LMAOOOO OH NONONONONO
Why are genwar homosexuals this moronic?
people actually believed the gaslighting from Jan’s video
Jan started it? I thought it was just a meme here
yeah it’s from his Johto seethe video
wrong, it's from some reddit review video where he calls out his followers for being moronic
im not clicking that, does he actually address the context that at the time pokemon weren't broken down into regional pokemon and any new ones in generation 2 were considered new discoveries
>im not clicking that
literally the first 30 seconds, i'm not arguing with you mysteryBlack person
lmao anyone taking jan's twitter seriously (clovergays) should be shot on sight
His clover hate is unironic though, that's why he never nuzlocked the game
just like Johto
anyone defending that homosexual should be punched in the face like him
that homosexual needs to be punched in the face
love when people who never played a game out themselves as morons.
It's not like most of pokémon fans think "Reviews/Critical Thinking = Opinion"
Games made after kanto are not canon anyway
yes they are you gay c**t your homosexual seething doesn't change facts
Every time some moron posts a Johto hate thread, the Johto defense force gets extremely defensive about every single criticism. It's hilarious and makes them perfecty sharty targets, unless they are the sharties themselves, of course. With how they post in this thread and dismiss everything, I wouldn't be surprised.
Johto doesn’t have a single flaw.
said no one sane ever
>Every time some moron posts a Johto hate thread, the Johto defense force typically attempts to refute criticism by either explaining how it's not inherently negative or the game design philosophy behind the game that started development nearly three decades ago. [Nothing statement that could apply to every "defense force" or fandom for a particular game or generation]
FTFY. Stop being disingenuous or learn to start differentiating satire from serious statements without tone indicators, zoomer.
5 posts in to be proven right, can't make this shit up lmao
no anon you don't understand you're just playing the game wrong 🙂
this, but unironically
>I MUST use a roster comprised of only new Pokemon!
>I MUST not learn the intricacies of the game!
>I MUST not acknowledge that the game's intention was for the final boss to be overleveled as otherwise my whining about the consistent level scaling would have a counterargument!
>>I MUST use a roster comprised of only new Pokemon!
I would have had a worse time playing gen 7-9 than I did BW if I had to force myself to use their ugly pokemon. I'll stick with gen 1-4 pokemon thank you
>I would have had a worse time playing gen 7-9 than I did BW if I had to force myself to use their ugly pokemon.
Glad we agree
>https://basedjak.wiki/Ganker_Trolling_Tactics#/vp/
Move along guys
Man that's a lot of mental illness
Thankfully this website exists so we don't have to actually defend Johto from criticisms. We can just say everyone who thinks they're bad is from this website and is a troll.
This is what happens when you self-snitch, idiot. You don't just publicly announce your tactics.
I don't say Johto is bad to get a rise out of people, I say it because it's true. Reasons have been posted, there have been no actual counter-arguments. Name-calling, accusations of trolling, non-arguments, but no rebuttals. It only strengthens the argument that Johto is bad.
no it fricking isn't true you gay c**t! the only thing that is bad is you homosexual
When your opponents are underaged subhumans that think ESL babble like "thoughever" is the pinnacle of humor, are you really under any obligation to argue with them?
I didn't say "thoughever" in my post here
nor did I post it to troll. I posted my grievances with the games as requested.
what are some good pokemon games
All Pokemon games that aren't gen 2
>she's relying on ChatGPT bots because no actual humans like gen 2
Lmao
even diamond pearl, x y, sun and moon, sword and shield?
>chatgpt
what?
gen 2 is the best pokemon game you gay c**t!
Gen 3-5 (minus HG/SS) are the series peak
>what are some good pokemon games
none of them
based
>trying too hard
this but unironically
imagine wasting time arguing with people on Ganker lmao
nah thats gen 7
>the Johto defense force
most of them are autistic neets who live on the board
they see every single thread that gets made and have filters set to make sure they never miss a mention of anything johto-related
Zoomers run the fanbase now
In SmithPlay's case these are mostly just clickbait to shill his rom hack
But there may be actual organized shilling against GSC and/or HGSS. After let's go, a gen 2 remake isn't beyond the realm of possibilities, so it could be a way for GF to lower expectations before the remake. The timeframe would fit for when DP hate started too
>organized shilling against GSC and/or HGSS
The "shilling" is mostly from battlegays. The main criticisms are almost always battle-related, and YT Pokemon content has shifted towards them. Nobody really complained about the "vibes."
Johto's criticisms revolve around Nuzlocke rules. The game is simply not good when doing those sorts of runs.
No, nuzlockes are just a subset of that. Nuzlockers don't care about how difficult obtaining Pokemon is, the games are easy enough where you don't need to put up with that. They also aren't complaining about how slow the battle system and HP bars are because speeding up the games is normal. The competitive scene is also the worst out of any gen.
>Nuzlockers don't care about how difficult obtaining Pokemon is
Wrong. Low encounter rates, evolutionary items, and levels are all very important for evaluating a Pokemon in a Nuzlocke.
>the games are easy enough where you don't need to put up with that
This does not apply to everyone with "newcomers" in particular struggling
>They also aren't complaining about how slow the battle system and HP bars are because speeding up the games is normal
Yep, as the game is shorter than 4
>The competitive scene is also the worst out of any gen.
That's Gen 1 where some types are essentially unusable, permafreeze and paraspam, unnecessary limitations on moves such as Counter, setup moves other than Amnesia being generally unrewarding, and a plethora of other issues that don't actually make the game fun.
>MUH SNORLAX
Three required Pokemon instead of one unlike Gen 2
The main issue with nuzlocke newcomers, as all the poketuber reactions show, is they don't grind to level caps, which is horrible to do on normal speed. You can win easily with common encounters. This doesn't only apply to nuzlockes either.
Gen 2 is consistently at the bottom of total battles on Showdown because nobody enjoys it, simple as.
>Gen 2 is consistently at the bottom of total battles on Showdown because nobody enjoys it, simple as.
That's a result of Gen 3 being a generally more fun metagame (at least in OU) and 1 having the charm of being the oldest game. Most people that actually have played both Gen 1 and 2 will tell you that 2 has a fundamentally better metagame
Is that why so more people consistently play gen 1? For charm? That's so funny.
>People enjoy archaic and heavily flawed games wtf?
Yeah
>Is that why so more people consistently play gen 1? For charm?
No, because it's the Brawl Minus of Pokemon where the goal is "abusing" the mechanics as much as possible to make your mons as broken as possible and cheese your opponents as much as possible to win
the mechanical experience is unique and one of a kind, and heavily laden in obscurity and nuance such that building for the tier becomes a highly mentally stimulating arcane practice, even while the play itself essentially consists of the most gambling of any other metagame
but Pokemon is fundamentally a gambling game anyway, it's just Gen1OU brutally exposes you to that fact
>Most people that actually have played both Gen 1 and 2 will tell you that 2 has a fundamentally better metagame
is that why Gen 2 is the least played and's not and never has been even close to Gen 1's playcount?
>1 having the charm of being the oldest game
that's cope
nobody actually cares about that
Gen 1/RBY OU has a surprisingly healthy scene. Really up there actually. I think gen 2 is generally liked by high end players but not by the playerbase at large. Gen 4 and gen 5 are the opposite where they're disliked by the high end players but more liked by regular players. Gen 3 is the most popular pre-fairy gen by far, obviously.
Yeah that looks right to me. I was a gen 4 UU gay myself.
>I think gen 2 is generally liked by high end players but not by the playerbase at large
Gen 2's metagame wouldn't work with the zoomer ADHD riddled playerbase who are used to the major power creep brought on by the nu-gens.
Gen 1 is really glitchy to the point it spawned a lot of interest in the game and shaped it's own bizzare metagame (i.e. Body Slam doesn't paralyze normal types, auto crit moves for fast pokemon, OPness of Psychic pokemon + attacks, 1/256 chance of missing a 100% accurate attack). Gen 2 has it's glitches, but none to the level Gen 1 provided.
why is gen 3 so popular with compgays?
It was the last gen before the power creep of gen 4 and 5. Also some may like the lack of physical and special split.
Not only was it the last gen before the power creep, it lacked the problems of the first two gens, where Gen 1 was massively imbalanced in general, and Gen 2 was a boring stall meta
>Gen 1 was massively imbalanced in general
it's not that imbalanced
gen 2 is more imbalanced arguably
gen 4 is more imbalanced arguably
It's just very balanced while still allowing a good amount of creativity, but not so much it makes the tier random. People dislike gen 4 more nowadays because it's power level is a little high for a generation without preview.
>People dislike gen 4 more nowadays because it's power level is a little high for a generation without preview.
people dislike 4 more nowadays because of the gay smogonhomosexualry bans that 3 doesn't have, which arbitrarily limit your freedom while you're forced to deal with shit like heatran and latias and stealth rock
>why is gen 3 so popular with compgays?
because it's the most balanced and offers the most player creativity and expression
>I think gen 2 is generally liked by high end players
translation: the most severely autistic
>That's Gen 1 where some types are essentially unusable, permafreeze and paraspam, unnecessary limitations on moves such as Counter, setup moves other than Amnesia being generally unrewarding, and a plethora of other issues that don't actually make the game fun.
and despite all that Gen 1 OU gets over double the playcount of Gen 2 OU (which is the only one in the 4 digits), no hyperbole
also,
amnesia being the only viable set up move is false
paraspam (gen1ou) is more competitive and more fun than toxic spam (gen2ou)
all gen 1 types are usable, including Bug
>MUH SNORLAX
>Three required Pokemon instead of one unlike Gen 2
"The Big 3" aren't required
Johto Snorlax is considered to be essential
>amnesia being the only viable set up move is false
What other setup move is being used in Gen 1 OU then? Reflect?
>paraspam (gen1ou) is more competitive and more fun
LOL
>and more fun than toxic spam (gen2ou)
It's self-inflicted sleep spam, but sure.
>all gen 1 types are usable, including Bug
Yeah Bug, Fighting, Fire, and Poison types sans Victreebel do very well in Gen 1 OU with not a single Pokemon of those types having over 1% usage.
>"The Big 3" aren't required
Stop getting your information from YouTubers.
>What other setup move is being used in Gen 1 OU then?
Swords Dance absolutely, and Growth is viable
if you want to count defense boosts, then yes, Reflect, Light Screen, I've even seen Defense Curl
>Yeah Bug, Fighting, Fire, and Poison types sans Victreebel do very well in Gen 1 OU with not a single Pokemon of those types having over 1% usage.
convience has little to nothing to do with viability
>Stop getting your information from YouTubers.
I literally play the game and make my own teams I get to high elo with
high enough that I can no longer get matches
>Swords Dance absolutely, and Growth is viable
On who? Victreebel?
>convience has little to nothing to do with viability
Reliability, consistency, and specialization do however. Fighting types and especially Bug Types all fall short on these
Unclear which move you're questioning
>Fighting types and especially Bug Types all fall short on these
there are members that only require proper teambuilding and set-crafting, like Parasect and Pinsir and Machamp and Poliwrath
>Unclear which move you're questioning
Both really.
>Parasect
One use with its Bug Typing being an active hindrance
>Pinsir
Same as Parasect.
>Machamp
Potentially ok, but unreliable and really not worth using.
>Poliwrath
Actually bretty good because of Amnesia and Hypnosis, but once again Fighting actively brings it down.
it's actually its grass typing that's more of a hindrance
bug has no common weaknesses
and you can have entire scholarly debates about which mon is the best swords dance user in the tier
>and you can have entire scholarly debates about which mon is the best swords dance user in the tier
I'd think Sandslash has the most potential with enough setup thanks to its surprisingly solid good type coverage, along with being durable against most Physical attacks. Victreebel is a better mon, but SD is not one of its top moves with it only really enhancing Hyper Beam.
>I'd think Sandslash has the most potential
as do I
but Kingler fanboys are a race and Victrebel exists
and that's not all of the contenders either
?si=0yDfmbNxSyzKHtDN
?si=coPkOg0StM-nX5fJ
>Victreebel is a better mon
I disagree
Johto is pathetically easy to nuzlocke
>get geodude
>absolutely destroy the first 4 gyms
>chuck, jasmine and pryce rank as some of the easiest gyms in the series
>super low level curve so no need to ever grind
>e4 is shit, Lance gets killed by anything with thunderpunch and ice punch
>entirety of Kanto is just mashing A for 2 hours
>Red is a joke because his movesets suck ass
The reason why you hear "nuzlockes are incompatible with Johto" is because nuzlockes are usually designed to be replayable and nobody wants to replay through the super long and boring Team Rocket grunt sections where you have to fight 50000000 level 17 Zubats or Kanto which is an even bigger snorefest
i even see HGSS get shit on a lot and called overrated by underage borts everywhere
anyone who uses the term "overrated" in any capacity should be shot
how do you know they're "underage borts"
> "Many people claim that the Johto and Unova games are the best in the series. Those people may be blinded by nostalgia."
> "I believe Scarlet and Violet are objectively the best games in the franchise, now made even better by the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero DLC, available now for the Nintendo Switch family of systems. You can purchase these games on this video's sponsor, use the special code in checkout to get 20% off your purchase"
>Pokemon games
>Having discounts
You tried I guess
which e-celebs shit on the unova games
they all shill them now because it's lucrative to pander to the zoomer audience
Sinnohzooms trying to big up bad remakes [HGSS]
Johto was heavily propped up by millennial nostalgia. Millennials have largely aged out of the fandom so people these days just see the games for what they actually are- deeply flawed and lacking compared to the rest of the series.
no its the best of the series you gay c**t its gen 7 thats the lacking one homosexual
probably
you don't hear much from genwunners anymore, so next up---or *out*, rather...
They're just really badly designed on multiple levels. If you didn't grow up playing them you won't think too highly of them compared to the rest of the series.
what makes them badly designed
Because I can't catch slugma in johto :~~*~~*~~*(
understandable, have a nice day
The level curve is awful, as is pokemon distribution. The HP bars drain at a glacial pace making the game take way longer than it has to. The new moves and pokemon turned competitive battles into a stallfest. Most Johtomons are absolute shitmons. The new pokemon were literally designed to sell merch according to the artist, something they went back on with Gen 3 because fans complained that they were too "babyish". Johto itself is small and boring and Kanto is supposed to make up for it but Kanto is even worse than in genwun.
none of those are real issues
I guess if you have incredibly low standards, yeah
gen2 is the peak of the series. monster designs, gyms, story, lore, region, postgame, all peaked in johto
not him but facing trainers and wild pokemon in their low-mid 20s when I already have 7 badges is a problem
>The level curve is awful
Yet it's still more difficult than Gen 1, which means it accomplished one of its goals.
>"difficulty" in a pokemon game lol
Meaning the complaint of the level range is even more insubstantial
>The HP bars drain at a glacial pace making the game take way longer than it has to.
This only applies when the Pokemon has an abnormally high amount of HP, otherwise it's just slightly below par compared to some of the other games like Gen 3
>The new moves and pokemon turned competitive battles into a stallfest.
Snorlax is new?
>Most Johtomons are absolute shitmons.
Yep they're somehow still more competitive than most of Gen 3's roster was upon their debut
>The new pokemon were literally designed to sell merch according to the artist
and assist the animators for the anime as that was one of the most important facets of the franchise while Gen 2 was in development, but Hoennbabies don't like to acknowledge that.
>Johto itself is small
Yet the main game is just as long as RBY.
>and boring
Entirely subjective and an unpopular opinion even with many of the detractors.
>Yep they're somehow still more competitive than most of Gen 3's roster was upon their debut
Elaborate
Gen 2 Pokemon are on average better statistically than Gen 3 Pokemon.
If we're strictly talking designs of the pokedex (lol imagine caring about the actual games, they're all nipslop)
On average gen 2 > 6 =1 > 3 > the rest
of the ones that do
>a pseudo-legendary
>legendaries
>base stat of 140 or above
johto is, after all, another minmax generation, unlike hoenn which tried to take a more balanced approach to its dex and not make anything overpowered (it succeeded)
>wtf why didn't they design Pokemon around having abilities in Gen 2!
Dumb argument
nope its easy as frick to make a team the distribution is not remotely and issue
nah gen 7 is whats boring you gay c**t!
no its nothing but lies you gay c**t!
>The level curve is awful
Irrelevant to the gameplay because every pokemon game is a cakewalk to beat. The only people who whine about this are shitlockers who deserve to whine and cry and moan and should be punished for playing pokemon incorrectly.
>The HP bars drain at a glacial pace
False, there are webms comparing the speeds to gen 3 and gen 4 is faster. Also, emulators lmao.
>The new moves and pokemon turned competitive battles into a stallfest
Compshitters are second only to shitlockers in "people whose opinions don't matter" when it comes to pokemon, so good, let them suffer.
>Most Johtomons are absolute shitmons
False
>The new pokemon were literally designed to sell merch according to the artist
It's a game franchise meant to make money, this is not a flaw unless you're a filthy commie leftist.
>something they went back on with Gen 3
And gen 3's designs suck shit compared to gen 2's. Salamance is the ugliest dragon in the franchise and I can count on one hand gen 3 pokemon I would ever want to use.
>Johto itself is small and boring
It's more interesting and less of a pain to navigate than Hoenn and more open and explorable than SHitnova.
>Kanto is supposed to make up for it but Kanto is even worse than in genwun.
Kanto in HGSS has tons of pokemon to catch (notably legendaries), a remade cerulean cave, Mount Silver, and with Rock Climb there are a handful of other new areas to explore in both Johto and kanto.
>inb4 Kalosperm
Everything after HGSS including gen 6 is not real pokemon and are dogshit games.
facts
no its gen 7 that is badly designed you gay c**t! gen 2 is the best designed in the series
Johto is a cool, lore-filled region on the cusp of modernization, full of both ancient traditions and new technology. The fans that love catching cool monsters and exploring such a locale love these games. The fans that love big numbers and competitive viability hate them since everything is outcompeted by what came after.
>The fans that love big numbers and competitive viability hate them since everything is outcompeted by what came after.
and by what came before
Rest in peace Pokemania
1996 - 1999
F
Pokemania was murdered in the algid autumn of 1999 and its killer still hasn't been brought to justice
nah it was the year gen 7 came out
Gen 2 has become the Sonic CD of Pokemon games.
SwSh = Sonic Forces
BDSP = Sonic 06 or Boom then?
nah thats sun and moon
Here's how I see it:
>Gen 1 = Sonic 1
Good start, but a little rough around the edges
>Gen 2 = Sonic 2
Took what made the original great and expanded upon it
>Gen 3 = SA1
Effectively a soft-reboot for the series, controversial at release, but many fans who got into love it
>Gen 4 = SA2
Built on the previous game, people are split on which one is better, tons of people got into the series with this entry, it's usually either this entry or the first that people started with
>Gen 5 = Sonic Unleashed
Game that had polarity upon release though people exaggerate how "hated" they were since most liked it and now they infamously have the most overbearing fanbase who can't seem to shut up about how "underrated" they are
>Gen 6 = Colors
Good game that brought a ton of people back into the series but has been met with much retroactive criticism, typically from fans of the Gen 3-5 / SA1-Unleashed faction that feels like this entry betrayed them because it catered to older fans who were more critical of the series middle ages.
>Gen 7 = Sonic Lost World
Oddball entry that people either love, are indifferent towards, or hate. These games tried to experiment with the formula to mixed reactions from the fandom.
>Gen 8 = Sonic Forces
Has tons of problems, but people often exaggerate how "bad" they are. People's disappointment turned into outright hate even though at worst, the games are "ok" and could even be pretty fun
>Gen 9 = Frontiers
Game that tries to go for more of an open world approach, may have some critics but many consider it one of the best entries and think it shows a promising future.
That said, the only ones of the Sonic section I really like are Sonic 1, 2, & Colors. The others are ok though (Forces is a little eh though)
not bad
>ignores sonic 3
>ignores sonic and knuckles
opinion discarded you are in no position to speak about sonic. Come back after all emeralds runs of both games and the fusion game and watching both live action movies. play the sonic RPG for fun just because of how good it is.
nta but what would be the pokemon equivalents for those games then
Surprised you didn't put 06
Is there a single
>gen whatever is terrible & here's why
video that isn't schizo ramblings? Genuine question, because I'll watch it
I'm sure there's plenty of negative deconstructions for SWSH.
>only complaints are from Nuzlock and Comp gays
This just convinced me gen 2 is the best
I don't care as I still love it and what others think doesn't affect me or my opinion
its not only homosexuals who need to be punched in the face think that
mystery melty hours
now we just need the ampharos obsessed guy to post and the whole gang will be here
Gen 7 were the last games since gen 5 that perfectly evoked the mystery of Pokemania from gen 1. Anyone who disagrees is a gay c**t and your face will meet my fist.
nope gen 7 are the worst games in the series
almost correct
the only gens that did it perfectly were 3, 4, 5, 7, and 9
nope gen 7 did it the absolute worst
nobody asked you gay c**t
get your own insult homosexual!
>Silver is bad
It's the stripping scene isn't it?
Envy, sour grapes.
Succeed breeds jealousy. They know the Johto games are among the best, if not the best, so they do their utmost to put it down because they know they cannot bring up their favorite to the same level, or an even higher one, than Johto games.
It's crabs in a buckets. Bringing you down to MY level because I know no matter what I do I will never be able to reach yours.
Because very very deep inside they know that if they acknowledge Johto as being good they cannot continue to justify the continuous downtrend of the franchise, so they do this to protect their fragile consoomer egos.
Kalos kids are old enough to use electronics now. They get jealous of good games like gsc and hgss, and soitubers figured that out. Now they pump out anti-johto slop for easy views
Johto was fun but Gen 1 was just such a paradigm shift it cannot be compared to, and it left behind huge shoes that gen 2 failed to fill. You have to understand how monumental Gen 1 was and how it warped the entire world around it for almost 2 years straight, it was a lifestyle. Compared to that, Gen 2 was just another game in the series, and this is before even nitpicking at the other issues with gen 2.
genwun was just the fortnite of its day, liked as a fad and not because it's actually a quality game
the series didn't get properly good until masuda took over with R/S/E
true, and by todays standards the gameboy was archaic, but for its time it was monumental. Even though the games were buggy messes with broken mechanics noone gave a frick because the novelty of it was so unique back then. When Gen 2 came out though the magic wasn't as special anymore, and a lot of people attribute it to a problem with Johto.
That said, the Gen 2 pokemon and the shoddy level distribution in the game really failed to capture the same spark Gen 1 had. Gen 2 was expansive but watered down in comparison.
nope gen 2 was an improvement in every possible way
>you can't buy back your childhood
You literally can and people do all the time.
nope gen 2 improved it in every possible way
when anyone says that gens 1, 2, 3 or 4 are bad, i immediately and correctly assume they were molested as a child
Gen 3 and 4 are zoomer gens. Are you underage?
What are you, in your 30s? Pushing 40? Why are you still on this website talking about pokemon when you're old and balding?
did i say anything about zoomers in my post you illiterate subhuman? dumb monkey
Gens 1 and 3-5 for me. Gen 5 really captures the mystery of gen 1 Pokemania with all the new Pokemon around. There's nothing else like it.
>really captures the mystery of gen 1 Pokemania with all the new Pokemon around.
Thanks for allowing me to just completely disregard all of your posts itt as evidently you have no idea what the frick you're talking about with the "mystery" of Pokemania". The myths and playground rumors for Gens 1, 2, 3, and even 4 had nothing to do with a large roster or Pokemon availability (if anything that would have the opposite effect);it was for Pokemon that had been revealed for the subsequent games, "mythicals" that nobody knew how to get without cheating, set pieces that seemingly had an alternative purpose like the Ruins of Alph or Mossdeep Space Center, material from the anime, and fabricated events or Pokemon from fans. By the time Gen 5 had released the internet was already widely accessible at home, killing any rumors for the games as any question you'd might have regarding new Pokemon could just be found in a matter of seconds.
Because Pokemon Challenges shat on it and because shitlockers hate it because it's hard 🙁 (it's an incredibly easy region to nuzlocke, my first nuzlocke was SoulSilver and it was a cakewalk).
that homosexual should be shat on and punched in the face
Agreed, he's a moron and has no integrity.
>Schizo wiki by an unovabort
have a nice day you mentally ill subhuman.
When it comes to originality as an entire sequel generation, no generation underperforms more than gen II. It added 2 types, rebalanced matchups, fixed a bunch of bugs, and added a handful of new pokemon (most not even obtainable until postgame). And that was about it. Same formula, marginal improvement on graphics, just more of the same. It was so underwhelming, padding it with a second region was the only way it could even retain any relevance.
It was the generation that started the even number curse. Every even numbered generation sucks. 2, 4, 6, 8, all terrible. 1, 3, 5, 7, & 9? All incredibly good generations.
The only thing Johto did right was introduce shiny pokemon.
breeding, held items, night and day, the time/day system in general are continuously overlooked elements which gen 2 introduced but are staples of the series since
>When it comes to originality as an entire sequel generation, no generation underperforms more than gen II. [COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF THE GAME THAT ONLY GETS MATCHED BY GEN 3]
Shit, Gen 2 was pretty fricking good from what you're saying.
>and added a handful of new pokemon (most not even obtainable until postgame).
Bait
>And that was about it. Same formula, marginal improvement on graphics, just more of the same
So, every other gen before 6 as that was the only gen to impress anyone with its graphics? Amazing point about Gen 2, 3, 4, and 5.
>It was so underwhelming, padding it with a second region was the only way it could even retain any relevance.
More revisionism as most people (not the vocal minorities) were in awe upon learning about Kanto being back even after learning it wasn't as expansive as it was in RGBY. To this day most people still think the Johto games having an entire second map was fricking cool even if it could've been much more.
>[FANFICTION FROM A SELF-PROCLAIMED SV FAN]
Nobody asked
pretty much every gen needing a gimmick really hurt them in the long run
megas while cool arnt used again
and is why too restrictive in terms who can use it
z moves are lame
dynamax is unbalanced as hell
the only good gimmick so far is terra type
being able to change type for the rest of the battle either for double stab or to buff the ice type by not making them ice types
2 and 6 are the best in the franchise
5 is one of the worst and most bloated games ever made and it looks worse than anything in the series
not surprised to see johto fans also liking kalos
You shouldnt be surprised that people who enjoy good thing enjoy other good things
Do you want some crayons to color with?
Most like kalos cause it had strong Kanto vibes tbh
no it fricking dosn't suck you stupid c**t gen 2 is the best in the series homosexual go stick your head in a fricking blender its gen 7 that is the worst you gay c**t!
Cute how the Johto-antis in this thread have done nothing to debunk any of the counterarguments made against them despite earlier claiming that it was the other way around. Really makes you wonder if there's some falseflagging going on or most of the criticism against the games is just the same regurgitated garbage
>Pokemon on a decline
>Youtubers scared of Pokemon losing traction (it won't. It's to big to fail at this point)
>worried they may have to get actual jobs
>"quick, I have to claim it's not bad somehow"
>Can't do Gen 1 because it's GameFreak's baby and would only emphasize how much shilling they do in the recent games
>They go with Gen 2 to claim that we're fine with slop so we should just continue eating slop
tl;dr ad revenue
Forgot to mention that Youtube commenters just parrot their favorite Youtubers opinion because they're unable to form a single original thought of their own and enjoying watching someone means you can never disagree with them ever
>Why is it so trendy to hate on Johto now? How and why did this happen?
johtoddlers are frickin' annoying and spammed "gen ii da bess" / "gsc/hgss da bess" for years on end
naturally, people dug into the matter and discovered it wasn't all it was cracked up to be
which johtoddlers of course didn't take kindly to
and thus the controversy
>reddit filename
average anti-Johto homosexual
got it from google images
you forgot to comment upon the reddit spacing as well
you gotta get your ad hominems on point man, how else you gonna convince ppl
and btw my search term specifically was "annoying johto fan"
the only one who is annoying is you homosexual
>johtoddlers are frickin' annoying and spammed "gen ii da bess" / "gsc/hgss da bess" for years on end
So, just like Hoennbabies before ORAS released, the fetuses with "DUDE CYNTHIA", and how Unovabortions are rn?
only unovabortions have ever rivalled johtoddlers in shameless chauvinism and sheer obnoxiousness, both unjustified/unwarranted
no you are fricking annoying you gay c**t! gen 2 is the best in the series its gen 7 that sucks ass
>Johto hater
>It's always a Hoennhomosexual
How do we massacre all Hoenhomosexuals?
they’re always unovaBlack folk
drown them in their water routes
Look for men in dresses
>Gen 2 OU
>least played OU of all past gens
>Gen 3 OU
>most played OU of all past gens
how do we massacre the majority of Pokemon's playerbase?
>Snorlax: the game
Nah Gen 2 meta is pretty dull. No lie there.
>dude... Gen 2 Snorlax
see
>fanfic meta
Who cares Black person
>replaying a literal children's game
who cares
>replaying a literal children's game, but with autistic rules
who cares
>replaying a literal children's game, but with autistic modifications
who cares
>not playing a game at all
who cares
I replay pokemon
You play spreadsheet simulator
you play a game specifically designed to be beatable by a five year old girl
Pokemon is for all ages
Can't believe that a obvious johto troll thread is getting this much traction. /vp/ is filled with too many autists that take the bait.
>b-but you're posting here too
To remind you guys how disappointed I am in you.
>timetravelgays BTFO
I fricking knew imaginationgay was one of them.
if this wiki isn't protected it literally means frick all, I can take any post from this thread that criticises Johto and post it there as a copypasta to use and future posters will use it to cope whenever someone says something mean about Johto
There's a question about sharty shit you have to answer.
Used to be really easy to bypass because one of the questions was literally a yes or no question but they changed it recently.
>They made a wiki on trolling a board of already downtrodden autists
Why does every underage troll have to try and reach Bluespike levels at all times?
Btw, I spend maybe 10% of my PC time here because I just want to make a shitpost or two and not seem too pathetic, what the frick is it that makes these people put so much time into this shit? Are they the new residents and the rest of us are just lurkers now?
they're just bored zoomer teenagers
Hoennshitters are upset about starting with the worst gen.
RSE was the first good set of games tho
hold up
nah you are saying this while gens 6-9 exist dude
the 1st 5 gens are good maybe except 4 but lets not attract the cynthiagays
>Look for men in dresses
Hoennian Cyndaquil
If GameCucks was good
And people will still argue that gen 5 is the most hated set of pokemon games.
That's actually gen 6
>That's actually gen 6
the most hated by borts, sure
>the most hated by everyone*
Ftfy.
unova dex had the lowest vote total of in the pokemon day poll
the first place popular pokemon in the pokemon day poll was greninja, a kalos mon, 2 generations removed after the fact (aka no recency bias)
*of all
Cool fanfiction. Meanwhile in reality everyone can acknowledge that most things wrong with nu Pokemon trace it's roots to XY
cool fanfiction unovazoomie
>Kalosgay thinks it's not a zoomer.
https://www.vintageisthenewold.com/game-pedia/what-pokemon-games-didnt-sell-well
>Gaming journalism
Yawn
don't look up the sales figures, bw xister
So you admit to consooming goyslop?
>goyslop
Gaijinslop you mean
its gen 7 actually
I played Crystal for the first time a few months ago in order to get Celebi into Pokemon Home so I'm not blinded by nostalgia, and honestly I think the main problem is that gen 2 is mostly shitmons.
That coupled with the atrocious level balancing (why the frick am I still finding trainers with Pokemons at sub-20 levels when I have seven badges) just make the game a slog.
It's just impossible to have a 6 mon team because of the low experience.
It's the one generation that actually encourages you to be a shitter and just focus on your starter, and when it comes to that Feraligart is by far the best pick.
Also, what was the point of the babymons?
>I can't beat the game unless all my pokemon are the level of the ace's gym leader xddd
you suck man sorry
Dude, by the 8th gym I was focusing solely on 3 Pokemon and even the three of them ended up in the low 40s.
And this is despite the fact that I spent hours farming against wild Pokemons to bring newcomers up to the same level.
Honestly, if I had known this before I would have just sticked to using Totodile and I would have probably beaten the game way faster.
Idk man seems like a (you) problem, I played some weeks ago just fine and the only time I grinded was for the e4 (like every other game)
It wasn't, my Electabuzz and Feraligart were enough to destroy the Pokemon League first try, it's just I spent plenty of time trying to keep a 6 mon team only for it to be pointless because the game just isn't designed for it.
>Also, what was the point of the babymons?
it was a marketing ploy
the only viable two were magby and elekid, because they were designed on the whole to be uselessly weak, to trigger le protective instincts
so basically just a failed attempt to exploit human psychology and cash-in on women children and gays
Paid GF anti-shills to push hype for Let's Go Pichu and Let's Go Togepi
They’re autistic homosexuals who have played the game dozens of times into adulthood and have come to the conclusion that Johto is the worst because it was incredibly easy with bad level scaling. Something nobody noticed as a kid or when the game was fresh.
TLDR: Manchildren fretting over the balance of a decades old region
>Johto is the worst because it was incredibly easy with bad level scaling.
It's funny, because I've seen lots of people claim both this and that it's actually too difficult because of bad level scaling. It's a coinflip on any given day which narrative you'll see.
the level curve is so bad it’s both
the Johto portion is hard because there’s nowhere to grind, and the Kanto portion is easy because everything is 30 levels under you
You don’t need to grind though. You can easily beat the league with a team in their late 30s. Then Kanto’s bosses will feel appropriately leveled, at first at least, then they kind of fall off because of how open world Kanto in Johto is. Blue is just overleveled enough to make the fight interesting. Bosses being around 10 levels over you was intended and is a good thing.
Now Red’s a different story, you will typically have to grind a few levels for him. You will get there in your late 40s and want to be in your mid 50s. I would have lowered the levels of all of his mons except Pikachu by around 5. That’s the only thing I would have changed though except for maybe adding a few road blocks here and there in Kanto so that the gym leaders can have a better level curve - actually doing that alone may solve the Red problem.
but enough about johto fanboys
>man child who frets over the balance of a decades old region.
gen z are resentful people still love and enjoy the old games and their beloved gen 5 was never that popular
you'll notice that everyone who hates on gen 2 is a massive gen 5 fan
wrong gen 2 is my favorite gen but gen 5 is my 2nd favorite
Because Gen 2 IS bad for nuzlockers. And that’s okay. People don’t have to like it.
It’s only bad for muh level cap rare candies homosexuals, people who play nuzlockes with normal rules wouldn’t find it bad.
this homosexual deserves the whole toothpick holder up his homosexual urethra and should be punched in the face for good measure
Because the modern way to defend your favorite is to attack what you see as the most notable rival, ie. the most popular one that isn't your favorite. HG/SS is universally loved and 2nd Gen is for many millennials peak comfy and nostalgic to the point of perfection. I've played since late 90's and while I liked Gen 1, Gen 2 is what really sucked me in. The further we go after Gen 5, the more new players hate on the old gens. We're now at a point where young adults grew up with X&Y, and they often HATE anything older than that, especially anything the millennials love the most.
3rd gen was the aesthetic and atmospheric peak of Pokémon, mechanically anything from 4 to 7 was better though. Gen 2 is peak nostalgia. So Gen 4 remakes are understandably loved by older players.
Because when you grow up you become smarter and thus able to analyze things more objectively and after playing the games more you realize Johto isn't that good.
>nooo the level curve isn't a problem, everyone being 15-20 levels weaker than you is totally ok!
that’s a problem with every pokemon game so why do you b***h about it only with johto?
Except it's not
Emerald has a much worse level curve, yet anti-Johtogays never complain about that. All Gen 1-4 games also suffer from being severely underlevelled by the Elite Four, some even more so than the Johto games, yet anti-Johtogays always ignore that.
Play emerald stupid b***h
?
>grinding
>15-20 levels weaker
???
my team was 27-33 by the time of clair, who has 38-41 mons
>actually GSC are better
>no HG/SS are better
They're both terrible for reasons that have been detailed repeatedly. HG/SS was a massive missed opportunity to actually fix Johto's many issues.
Johto doesn’t have a single issue and both GSC and HGSS sit at top of the franchise mogging everything else.
>HG/SS was a massive missed opportunity to actually fix Johto's many issues.
What are the problems with GSC exactly?
>gutted Kanto
HGSS revives many of the areas GSC left out due to storage issues.
>distribution
Larvitar, Misdreavus, and Murkrow were all added to Johto through the Safari Zone. Only Houndour is still Kanto-only. People pretend HGSS's distribution is bad purely because of Houndour, why people are so attached to this fricking dog is beyond me.
>difficulty
Some gyms have been buffed like Bugsy's Scyther using U-turn now and Morty's Gengar hits harder than ever with Shadow Ball. HGSS also has rematches and Platinum's Battle Frontier as well. Red's battle now has Hail for chip damage and many of his pokemon know Blizzard.
What else is there that people complain about? Absolutely nothing. Saying that HGSS doesn't address GSC's issues is bullshit when you look at the games further.
Kanto is still empty and boring with the HG/SS additions, also having any Johto pokemon at all still stuck in Kanto is a massive blunder. The level curve is still trash as we all know.
>Kanto is still empty
Empty how? There are trainers in Kanto, gym battles in Kanto, a little quest involving Team Rocket, what makes HGSS Kanto any more empty compared to other regions? This has never meant anything, dumb /vp/ meme.
>also having any Johto pokemon at all still stuck in Kanto is a massive blunder.
No it's not, there being Pokemon left to discover in Kanto is a good thing.
>The level curve is still trash as we all know.
Meme. The level curve functions exactly as it's supposed to, you are supposed to be in the 30-40 range around Clair.
>Empty how?
Nothing actually interesting to see or do. Designed way more like a scenic tour of Kanto than an actual second region.
>No it's not, there being Pokemon left to discover in Kanto is a good thing.
Johto pokemon being exclusive to Kanto will never make sense no matter how Johto fans try to spin it. It just doesn't.
>Meme. The level curve functions exactly as it's supposed to, you are supposed to be in the 30-40 range around Clair.
>It's supposed to be bad!
Uh-huh.
>Nothing actually interesting to see or do. Designed way more like a scenic tour of Kanto than an actual second region.
>Gym Badges
>Roadblocks
>Evil Team encounter
>Areas of interest/landmarks such as Seafoam Islands and the Pewter City Museum
>Legendary Pokemon
>It's own Pokemon League
>An additional final boss
>"UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, WHERE'S THE EVIL TEAM BASE, BROS?!?"
>Johto pokemon being exclusive to Kanto will never make sense no matter how Johto fans try to spin it. It just doesn't.
Glad you agree that Beldum being exclusive to Sinnoh Route 228 makes no sense.
>It's supposed to be bad!
Nope, but their intention to have Red outclass every other trainer via a level gap with fulfilled.
>>Gym Badges
The gym fights are bad
>Roadblocks
Oh boy, another sleeping Snorlax. So interesting.
>Evil Team encounter
The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion.
>Areas of interest/landmarks such as Seafoam Islands and the Pewter City Museum
Seafoam Islands is an incredibly basic dungeon. They already redesigned the layout from how it was in R/B/Y/FR/LG, they should have made it bigger and more interesting to navigate. It's mogged hard by Sinnoh's dungeons in its own gen, which it should be held to the standard of since it's a new dungeon anyway with the layout changes in HG/SS.
>Legendary Pokemon
Same shit as in R/B/Y/FR/LG, boring
>An additional final boss
Where they inexplicably replaced an Espeon to give him another Water-type for worse coverage
>Glad you agree that Beldum being exclusive to Sinnoh Route 228 makes no sense.
Beldum is a Hoennmon, what are you even talking about with this
>Nope, but their intention to have Red outclass every other trainer via a level gap with fulfilled.
His team is worse than Cynthia's
>The gym fights are bad
Lol, blue is one, if not, the best gym fight but go on queen
>Oh boy, another sleeping Snorlax. So interesting.
Yeah, you have to wake him using the pokeflaute in your radio, a cute throwback
>The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion.
Moving the goalpost
>Seafoam Islands is an incredibly basic dungeon. They already redesigned the layout from how it was in R/B/Y/FR/LG, they should have made it bigger and more interesting to navigate. It's mogged hard by Sinnoh's dungeons in its own gen, which it should be held to the standard of since it's a new dungeon anyway with the layout changes in HG/SS.
You're also forgoting revamped viridian forest and cerulean cave
>Same shit as in R/B/Y/FR/LG, boring
It's actually different since you can catch the gen 3 legendaries
>Where they inexplicably replaced an Espeon to give him another Water-type for worse coverage
Lapras is more iconic
>Beldum is a Hoennmon, what are you even talking about with this
Really? In which route does it appear?
>His team is worse than Cynthia's
Not an argument, we are talking about hgss not about platinum
>Really? In which route does it appear?
dumb argument, it's from the hoenndex just like the hoenn starters despite not being able to find those in the wild on a route, nobody is going to seriously argue that mudkip is not a hoennmon
the same could be said about muh Houndour
>The gym fights are bad
So only Emerald and Platinum have good regions? Ok
>Oh boy, another sleeping Snorlax. So interesting.
>Oh boy, another Sudowoodo posing as a tree. So interesting.
>The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion.
Still your obligatory evil team "plot" whether you like the length or 'quality' of it or not.
>The Team Rocket plot was pathetically bad enough in the Johto portion of the game, it's somehow even more pathetic in the Kanto portion.
They did. There's an entire Gym there now.
>Same shit as in R/B/Y/FR/LG, boring
Latios and Latias were in R/B/Y/FR/LG? Interesting
>Where they inexplicably replaced an Espeon to give him another Water-type for worse coverage
Blizzard w/o evasion checks is more threatening than anything Red's Espeon in GSC. Also an absolutely irrelevant nitpick
>Beldum is a Hoennmon, what are you even talking about with this
where can I catch beldum in Hoenn? where can I catch zorua in Unova? where can I catch ogerpon in Paldea?
>His team is worse than Cynthia's
Irrelevant
What a fricking worthless reply.
You're essentially just seething that Johto is different from whatever zoomer region you were raised on, most likely Unova. Pokemon are not tied to the region they were introduced ALONG WITH, there aren't "Johto pokemon" it's more accurate to call Pokemon by their generation. Some Gen 2 pokemon were discovered in Kanto, that's how a lot of the older games functioned. You can't actually catch a Beldum in Hoenn. A lot of Sinnoh cross-evos needed transferring or swarms to obtain. That's just how it is. You're confused because GSC and HGSS are the only games with multiple regions so it communicated this idea better.
>It's supposed to be bad!
The curve capping lower than what you're used to doesn't magically make it bad.
The champion's strongest pokemon is level 50, your pokemon is in the 40s around that point, that's done on purpose. It's functioning as it's supposed to.
>The level curve functions exactly as it's supposed to
Lmao
HGSS' only flaw was removing room decorations instead of working it into Platinum's Secret Base feature, and not giving Blackthorn City a unique tileset and remix similar to what they did with Ecruteak City and Cianwood City.
Apart from those two things, HGSS are objectively the perfect Pokémon games.
>pic rel is an example of the soul found in hgss
I'm not the only one who think the original Lake of Rage resembles Celebi, right?
HGSS did some nice stuff, I liked the autumnal theme to Ecruteak as well. GSC has far superior night time and darkness palettes however, with much worse hardware to work with. Also, what the frick was up with them removing the infinite resets for the SS Aqua? I liked using those trips to grind and having a reason to use the ship to continually travel between the regions was neat. Removed for absolutely no good reason.
Yeah, HGSS did a lot of good stuff, like what you mentioned. I also liked them making seperate themes for each Legendary Beast, splitting Ecruteak and Cianwood's themes and adding a whole ass set of optional routes with a beatiful theme and tileset with a Safari Zone at the end allowing you to get all but one of the Kanto-exclusive Johto-Mons with just 5 Badges, something anti-Johtogays love to ignore. But it also did a lot of weird stuff. Not really enough to detract from the game's overall quality, but just questionable choices.
The problem with GSC is that it does the fake non-linearity thing after Morty where you can fight Chuck, Jasmine and Pryce in whatever order but they keep everything from badge 5-7 low level instead of them adjusting to what order you go. GSC you can excuse because of technical limitations but it's still in HGSS which is simply indefensible
>I don't like it, so it's le bad