why is it that every pokemon clone keeps making the same mistakes that both the original series and other pokeclones do
where the frick is the innovation?
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>clone
>innovate
They're not aiming to "innovate", they're just looking to leech off the success of a popular property by giving you said property "but GOOD!!!".
That never works though. You can't succeed by copying something else. The only way to succeed in today's market is to offer something unique, or at least have SOMETHING that gives you an identity of your own. Taking inspiration is one thing, but outright copying something else doesn't work today.
I would gladly buy a pokemon clone if the literal only difference was that they had appealing pokemon designs and art style again. That's all it would take to make me buy it over actual pokemon. I've skipped pokemon games because I don't like the look of any of the starters and the idea of choosing one makes me sick, a pokemon game where I actually wanted to catch the majority of the new pokemon would be enough to make me buy it.
No you wouldn't
You THINK you'd buy it, but if there's no difference between it and Pokemon other than designs/art style, then there is absolutely no reason to buy it if Pokemon already exists.
That's how the majority of people think. They aren't going to buy something that's identical to something they already have.
No, I definitely would. I haven't bought a mainline pokemon game since B&W solely because the pokemon are so ugly now.
Because they thing there's an appeal in the complexity of the backend systems. Not a single Pokemon clone has attempted a true return to simplicity. Pokemon without the branding is still a needlessly bloated mess of a game that you can thankfully ignore in a normal playthrough of the story. But so many clones seem to think that making breeding and raising monsters even more tedious is the winning play. Looking at you TemTem.
>needlessly bloated mess of a game
You're joking right? It's one of the most simple monster tamers on the market.
>play pokeclone
>EVs or equivalent are still obnoxious, unrewarding, unintuitive, or all three
>IVs and natures or equivalent are still an RNG frickfest
>game still lacks much ability to customize your mons (party members) to innovate with new and fun strategies, there is still only one held item slot and most of them have very boring effects
>game still has forced tutorials and/or cutscene overload without a skip or at the very least a fast forward to read at a pace faster than a dyslexic third grader
>gym leaders are either still piss easy or have le ebin 6-mon competitive team
>STILL have random fricking encounters in currentyear
My pokeclone will have random encounters with 1% encounter rates for mons that can't be obtained anywhere else.
Why? Because I genuinely enjoy those.
i'm just sick and tired of getting interruped with
>screen flashes
>transition to battle screen
>pokemon slowly slide into place/appear however
>[shitmon you dont give a frick about] appears!
>go, [your pokemon who is like ten levels higher!]
>animation of said mon coming out of ball
>what will mon do?
>NOW you can click run
call me an adhd zoomzoom all you want but you can't act like it's not a time waster
however i agree rare mons are kino and soulpilled
I've been playing Platinum and I, too, hate the 10 second (I counted) delay between losing control and being able to click Run.
I think it could be shortened to 5 seconds without losing anything, with an option to shorten it to 2 seconds by trimming some of the animations, making it look worse but being far more enjoyable to play during long grinding sessions.
...except that is exactly what makes encounters >FUN<
The 10 seconds of anticipations and surprise when you get new, unknown encounter or a rare sparkly variant. It's literally the same mechanism that makes your dogshit gacha game make billion dollars or any collectible toys/cards/whatever find autist throwing money at it. Except in this case it's not monetized and instead is turned into valid and organic game mechanic.
There's a reason literally every modern RPG has removed random encounters; they aren't fun, they're an archaic relic of the past. The limitations that necessitated random encounters are no longer a thing, so random encounters shouldn't exist anymore
"literally every modern rpg" - name five.
And Pokemon is not "literally every modern rpg". Pokemon has specifically attached your main resource (Pokemon) system attached to encounters, which makes encountering new Pokemon a fun surprise.
>which makes encountering new Pokemon a fun surprise.
That hasn't changed, the encounter just isn't locked behind a loading screen now
This feeling is almost impossible to replicate now, though, because that discovery has been tainted by our understanding of the game.
Nobody goes in entirely blind anymore.
Even if you ignore every single online resource, you'll still know the basics of a pokemon game.
There's no more "ooh boy, Ratmon 4, I wonder if it'll evolve into something cool".
You KNOW that bar maybe a single exception, almost every early game pokemon will generally be crap tier outside of some specific meta strategy and they'll all look like shit.
The only way to even kinda get close to invoking this feeling again would be to do a very careful balancing act by:
>Increasing the number of available pokemon in each area, massively, from the get go.
This means that for a typical "child-like" runthrough of an area, you WON'T see everything. You basically can't. It also makes it seem special when you see other trainers using pokemon you haven't seen, because you'll have to try and figure out where they got it.
This adds back a lot of the mystery about which pokemon are where and the seemingly endless scope of the game.
Obviously the internet can instantaneously ruin it, but it still enables people to share where they found a such-and-such.
It also adds a new mechanic: Giving pokemon the feel that there are countless pokemon ought there and each biome has a unique variety. If you're hanging out in a flowery field in the day, you'll find different pokemon than a grassy field at night.
>Limit the number of captures you can get in each area strictly, for the early to mid game only.
This forces players to make do with a smaller number of pokemon and either a) focus on finding some specific rare pokemon they think is here or b) explore the game with a smaller number of pokemon caught for the majority of the game
This encourages each player's experience to be significantly different and starts to bring back that team-comparison thing that made the earlier games fun. "Wow, you caught a WHAT!?"
>Cont.
>Make the game harder.
In conjunction with each of the above, this forces players to be more aware of challenge and strategy. When they are presented with a type disadvantage on a strong trainer, you want them to think "Wow, I need to find a water pokemon" not "wow, I need to make my grass type's slash do more damage"
>Reduce experience from wild pokemon right up to the end game, but also reduce the grind for pokemon after the end game.
For your story playthrough, grinding the same area for hours can be an option, but it should be a REAL grind. You should be strongly encouraged to take the pokemon you have and push further.
Ideally, experience would be logarithmic/exponential, such that getting your pokemon up to roughly the level of your surroundings is easy, but overlevelling is all-but-impossible.
>if you have overworld pokemon, they need to be living creatures
No more floating models wandering aimlessly. Make them run, eat, flee, dig, fly. Make them actually act like they're in the world. No popping in and out.
Don't see something you like? Guess you'll need to come back in an hour or two and check again.
This can be rearranged in the post-game; perhaps you get the option to "pitch a tent and rest" which fades to black, then back again with refreshed pokemon.
All of these focus on bringing back the core notion that: you are a pokemon trainer in a world of pokemon, not a collector in a collectathon.
it's meant to be a challenge, it's meant to be explorative, you're not meant to have 40 pokemon and a level 37 by the second gym.
>such that getting your pokemon up to roughly the level of your surroundings is easy, but overlevelling is all-but-impossible.
Didn't BW1 try this? I know Audino in shaking grass counteracted this for the most part but if you defeat something that's weaker in level you'd get far less EXP
I think this was removed in BW2 though
BW2 has it as well, and according to Bulbapedia there's actual level scaling on every generation from 7 onwards. It seems way less impactful than in 5 though, probably because the new XP share system means you get a huge amount of extra XP per fight anyway.
Also from gen 6 onwards there's a 1.2x bonus for pokemon which are at or above their evolution level but haven't yet evolved.
>It seems way less impactful than in 5
I partially disagree because level scaling was fricking brutal in G7, especially wince they did away with the Trainer experience bonus in that generation. You're right about the rest being easier, though.
>No more floating models wandering aimlessly. Make them run, eat, flee, dig, fly.
They already do this in SV.
Like, LITERALLY every single one of these is done by at least one species, more often several.
How about a middle ground
>screen flashes
>transition to battle screen
>pokemon slowly slide into place/appear however
>[shitmon you dont give a frick about] appears!
>you are then promoted to either continue to fight it or run or attempt to catch it on the first try
>if fleeing or capture fails then the first mon in your party is sent out
I've been saying pokemon battles are too fricking slow for 10 years. And no, turning off the attack animations (the part that they should try to make BETTER, not give you a reason to remove) isn't a fix.
Make a turn take like 5 sec with attack animations happening with no delay in between them. Make all the effect text fade in on the side of the screen.
Literally a 5 hour better game because there's 5 hours less of watching text scroll.
too many pauses behind every battle sequenze.
>game shows first what move you're using, and after a second the animation and damage dealt
>game has to show a pokémon at a time being damaged by the current weather, accompanied by the text box
>Multi hit moves have to hit one at a time, instead of making it seamless and show immediately the damage dealt
>all held items first have to show the animation, and then the effect
Nah, not even a Zoomer thing. If anything I've gotten demonstrably less patient for shit like this as I get older. I'm not a kid that just consumes media, now I have the brain to notice when the game is padding time with overly long, unskippable sections and actually get annoyed by it.
same
I hate having my time callously wasted now
5/6 points are fair. If you think random encounters are inherently bad however you don't know frick about jack or shit.
there is never a reason to put random encounters in any game.
While searching for a rare Pokemon in a game with random encounters, I still have to actually engage with the actual game to a minor degree. This makes it a good time to grind up lower level party members or farm some items with Pickup. In a game with overworld encounters I just see a Pokemon I don't want, zoom away on my bike or whatever, and come back on a walking loop until the one I want spawns. It's genuinely less engaging and only works better if I want instant gratification.
It's almost like most monster tamer games are autistic slopfests huh.
>slop
You really don't need to announce to everyone that your opinion isn't worth taking seriously.
Pokémon clones as a concept existed for longer than you've been pissing in your bed whilst asleep, zoomoid poketurd
>lack of reading comprehension
>still sticking to buzzwords
Stop embarrassing yourself.
How popular is he
Popular enough to have a non-gay R18 Doujinshi fanbase I guess?
Sorry but I was tired and need an excuse to frick off and go to bed
I'm sorry a word that accurately describes a product of low quality offends you. Are you an AIgay or something?
It's a Ganker meme that /misc/ stole and ruined
>If you think random encounters are inherently bad however you don't know frick about jack or shit.
i get the point of making an area where confrontation is unavoidable to provide some sense of danger to an area/dungeon, but when was the last time a wild encounter posed any threat? we have unescapable trainer battles for this
>but when was the last time a wild encounter posed any threat?
In the older games, they drain your PP. Ethers are so rare that it's kind of moronic to use them outside the E4, so unless you spent a few days farming Leppa berries, PP is a precious resource. Early game, Revives are also precious and you probably don't want to waste one in a dungeon when you'll need it to get through the next gym leader or team admin, so random crits can also deprive you of your ace.
Old-school JRPG's all use random encounters to drain your resources. Play SMT 1 and you'll see that the bosses aren't actually very difficult in a vacuum, but getting to them in fighting shape requires you to balance risks and manage resources well through random encounters with an insanely high encounter rate.
>getting to them in fighting shape requires you to balance risks and manage resources
My only problem with SMT 1 are the weapons. I get it's hard to find a blade in the apocalypse, but it doesn't makes sense to me that I have to farm 2 or 3 enemies to find a decent blade in Lvl 40, still using my Lvl 10 short sword.
Also, 99% of enemies (including bosses) aren't hard. Just cast Zio or shoot them with magic bullets, and let the status effect do the rest.
I literally passed 80% of the game by shooting Nerve Bullets.
I think the issue with that is in Pokémon running away is basically free, and literally free once you have a Smoke Ball and you're allowed to face the trainers piecemeal by constantly running back to the Pokémon Center, so they feel a lot more annoying than purposeful
>In the older games,
ok but what if I’m not a complete fricking moron and know how the run button works
You ever try to remake the food you threw together out of random scraps while drunk/stoned when sober? That's the issue. Pokemon is a sandwich of multiple parts stolen/rejiggered from other franchises that just happens to work. You miss any aspect and it's ruined.
Because Pokemon has been winning for so long that the pokeclones can't help but use a pokeclone for reference.
Pokemon is the bible of monster JRPGs every attempt to dethrone it will only result in a ripoff
Because "Good" and "pokemon clone" aren't really compatible.
>Focus on simplicity
game becomes too shallow, competitive play is largely a rock-paper-scissors with minimal nuance or strategy, or devolves into meta chasing and cheese.
Gameplay itself is stale and boring, having been done - better - countless times before.
>Focus on complexity
Game becomes a tedious chore of grinding and/or rng, often with an insurmountable knowledge hurdle between veterans and casuals. Strategies exist, but are now almost completely dependent on meta and the heart of the game - the exciting roleplaying collectathon - is lost amidst the miasma of addedd "Stuff".
>Focus on characters and story
inevitably devolves into le heckin wholesome tumblr shit because nobody who can write a compelling story wants to do so to make a pokemon clone and everyone who wants to write a story for a pokemon clone is physically unable to write something good.
>Focus on just remaking the original pokemon game, but softening as many flaws and hard edges as possible, while improving character design and graphics
Fail, because gen 3 already exists.
How would you make a monster catching game without random encounters?
Populate them in the world so you can see them and avoid them accordingly if you wish
You could also work more on creating a more fleshed out world so that rarer Pokemon can be hidden away in areas that aren't obvious or are tricky to get to, and this gives you a reason to run around forests and mountains trying to find a bee hive or a species of goat that only lives at high altitudes or something
So one overworld event for each mon like how legendary encounters work? How would you catch multiple copies of the same mon? Would it respawn every time you left the room?
Have you even played any of the recent pokemon games? Or any RPG other than pokemon? There have already been a few pokemon games without random encounters.
>pokeclones thread
>ctrl+F "cassette beasts" not a single mention
To be fair It looks to me that Cassette Beasts did not try to compete with Pokémon like other clones did. It's an indie game for people that love complex battles, not really trying to go mainstream
There's no room to actually discuss pokeclones when the freaks turned this thread into a dissertation on why the worst parts of pokemon are actually "good"
do what everyone always says to do in this shithole and get a thicker skin
I just want one that has some proper dating sim elements
>I just want one that has some proper dating sim elements
Are there ANY pokeclones that have anything like this?
It seems like strapping pokemon gameplay to something like persona social links would be a pretty simple concept to put together
It’s not a pokeclone nor exactly what you’re describing but dragon quest v is probably the closest thing I’m aware of. You can recruit monsters you encounter into your party and choose between two (three in the DS port) brides to marry and have children with.
AssetflipWorld is leagues below any of the indie monster taming games regardless of moronic pronoun virtue signaling and you should feel bad for shilling it
I am only reminding you that it's gonna get released '"Soon™"' because it's the only videogame made after 2012 I would actually buy (but only if just pirating it is out of the question for more than 2-3 months after premiere) solely due to knowing that some of the top 10 mods for it will be of the following content:
>real official Pokemon (and Digimon) as ingame Pals
>frickable Pals of both genders (including the 'mons from previously mentioned mod)
>xenogenic pregnancy mod that lets your avatar and female npcs get impregnated by Pals
You know that I'm right, this shit isn't any different than PixelMon if you really think about it
>western Pokemon clones
>innovation
pick one
There isn't a whole lot of room for innovation in the gameplay department. Pokemon and Pokemon clones will forever be tied to basic turn-based systems and there are numerous reasons for this. The best you'll be able to hope for is minor changes to the formula(for example Temtem using a shared attack resource) or overall quality of life improvements(for example Pokemon games in general could be made substantially better if battles flowed seamlessly rather than being repeatedly paused by a vomited stream of text informing you of the current weather, entry hazard, status effect occurrence, move effectiveness, etc.)
>(for example Pokemon games in general could be made substantially better if battles flowed seamlessly rather than being repeatedly paused by a vomited stream of text informing you of the current weather, entry hazard, status effect occurrence, move effectiveness, etc.)
How many times do people have to explain that "Every Pokemon game is someone's first?" Other JRPGs are willing to throw you into the deep end of the pool but Pokemon as a franchise owes its success to aiming at mouthbreathers.
>How many times do people have to explain that "Every Pokemon game is someone's first?"
This is a non-argument. Apply yourself.
It's the actual reason. Notice that PLA, which is intended for an older and pre-initiated audience, had fast-flowing battles.
>It's the actual reason.
No, it's a poor excuse for Gamefreak to continue to be lazy.
Making the game explain everything to the player in excruciating detail is the opposite of lazy. It would be far easier to just have all that shit happen in the background and not be explained at all.
They do it this way on purpose because they need to be sure that barely-literate six-year-olds understand what's happening in battle. Thus, in games that are not targeted at barely-literate six-year-olds, they have a much better battle flow.
>Making the game explain everything to the player in excruciating detail is the opposite of lazy.
No, Gamefreak's approach is 100% lazy. Please apply yourself and stop licking corporate boot.
>doing more work is lazy
What did he mean by this?
>he thinks it's more work
You're moronic. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
>example Pokemon games in general could be made substantially better if battles flowed seamlessly rather than being repeatedly paused by a vomited stream of text informing you of the current weather, entry hazard, status effect occurrence, move effectiveness,
You know that's just how rpgs work, right?
No it's not. Don't be moronic.
Just admit you only play pokemon anon. It's easier than trying to convince people rpgs work differently.
>Just admit you only play pokemon anon.
Funny, it's actually the other way around. Pokemon is behind the curve in multiple ways and anyone with a clue knows and understands this.
99% of the Pokemon clones releasing are just made by old disgruntled fans who don't mind most of Pokemon's shit mechanics, they just hate the 3D era of Pokemon games. Most of them are just trying to recreate the feel of DPPt or BW.
There's honestly no point to even making a Pokemon clone because nothing can replace the actual Pokemon. You could make the most perfect, best pokemon style game in the whole world with everything you could ever want in it and people still wouldn't care because Pikachu isn't in that one. There can be no alternative if the actual Pokemon aren't copyable.
>this post is advertising
>he thinks any clone is going to replace pokemon
kek
I have enjoyed every poke clone I’ve tried from No No Kuni to Temtem. You guys just only like Pokemon as a brand so of course none of them fill the void
I would've tried Temtem if it had appealing monster designs. Everything except the platypus looks AI generated.
I think some of them are cool like Volgon but I already like the “weird” designs like Dudunsparce so Temtem is fine to me overall.
>Volgon
Okay, I hadn't seen this one before. I will begrudgingly admit it's pretty cool.
> I already like the “weird” designs like Dudunsparce
Me too, but I just don't like Temtems. They look like AI generated fakemon. Yokai Watch does much better.
Pokemon clones fail because their monster and character designs are simply not appealing enough. Take Temtem for instance, their monster designs are atrocious. Yokai Watch's monster designs are too silly and Digimon's are too overdesigned and humanoid.
pokemon is a bloated mess and my enjoyment of it is directly related to how many of its mechanics i can ignore
As someone currently developing a Pokemon competitor, I can say it's because they assume that Pokemon is fundamentally correct in its design decisions due to being fanboys, and that their task is evading copyright claims, not innovating or improving.
Say something about your game pls
>not turn-based
>no mons are explicitly typed
>no HP; instead, their "mana" so to speak, the resource used for the moves, is their hp as a total; each type of energy has its own mana bar, and the "hp" is the sum total of the individual manas
>permadeath is part of the setting, as creatures whose mana reserves / hp goes to zero get "snapped" into oblivion
>the "League" is an ashnime style tournament circuit, but round robin; neither gyms nor elite four equivalents
>the regulated creature fighting circuit has safeguards in place to prevent demise, like KOTOR's Taris duels contra the Bendak Starkiller deathmatch
>has access to any learnable move all at once; no moveslot limits
>base power is a Wizardry 8 - casting style *range*, not fixed number
>almost zero (0) RNG elements
>monstrous creatures are rarer than animals, but the animals are at bare minimum as complex as e.g. Houndoom---no Pidgey's, no "animal but [type]"
>Digimon/eeveelution inspired evolutionary trees
>alignment system and alignment-exclusive mons
>mature themes and tone, complex character development and narrative
>no gods or legendaries in the setting at all
>heavy emphasis on balance but not at the expense of interesting mechanics---conscientious not to make an unga bunga meta where tactics and strategy ultimately don't matter and it's all about shitting out damage
>WRPG character creation, more in-depth than even our humble "trainer classes" ideas in circulation here
>no EVs/IVs, mons are differentiated by "talents" which will be akin to natures as well as species-specific pools of born feats
just some details
>>base power is a Wizardry 8 - casting style *range*, not fixed number
what does this mean
i'm not japanese so i haven't played any of the Wizardry games
in Wizardry 8, there's a spellcasting mechanic where you can select how much power you put into a spellcast, thus how much MP you expend in exchange for how much damage / potency it has
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skip to 1:15 and notice the green orbs at the right
they also had it to where higher power spells had higher chances to fail, but that's not relevant here
the idea is instead of Flamethrower being 95 BP and 95 only, it can be as weak as Ember or as strong as Overheat / Blast Burn or Inferno Overdrive, depending on how much mana you choose to expend
this eliminates the redundancy of moves that have no actual reason for existing other than having a move at that base power; you can instead focus on the actual effects and have that be the prime differentiator between moves
>no gods or legendaries in the setting at all
I like that.
Someone made a thread with basically the same subject.
heh, this is what OP looks like in real-life, hehe.
Ugly OP.
Op is ugly.
>least visually repulsive OP on /vp/
Few modern poke lines actually try to be as soulless as Pokemon. They create the game THEY wish Pokémon would be, which is always more limited in widespread appeal.
Really, the last pokeclone that attempted to be a huge soulless franchise for everybody was YKW, and that fell through when they tried to grow with their audience.
Because most of them are barely funded indie projects run by artists first and game designers second. This isn't even me making a bitter jab about things I don't like, it's just the truth. I follow a lot of these projects from their conception because I'm active in artist circles and like 99% of these projects are directed by artists who's main interests is recreating pokemon with their preferred aesthetics instead.
Most projects that are more mechanics focused peter out and don't get as far because people don't want to kickstart and ugly looking monster collector game, even if it's mechanically novel, because the largest market for Pokemon is people who just like collecting cool/cute monsters. That or the people who are interested in making a hyper tuned mechanical experience just make ROMhacks for Pokemon because why design a new roster if you don't care about changing the aesthetics?
Because if you remove those mistakes then people won't consider it a Pokémon clone any more. Conversely, Pokémon could throw out everything except the name and people would still consider it Pokémon.
There's a thread on /tg/ right now where people are begging for "creative takes on the dwarf archetype, which don't just look like every other dwarf". When the Gorons from Zelda were brought up, some anons started arguing that they're a completely different archetype - because despite being strong, masculine, insular mountain-dwelling miners and blacksmiths of incredible skill, who fight with hammers, associate beards with leadership, are rivals with the "elegant" race, have a honor-based society but are rowdy at parties, and whose reproductive processes are a mystery... they have too much of a connection to earth.
>... they have too much of a connection to earth.
sounds like you're strawmanning
haven't seen the thread however
>dwarves from Germanice folk-tales literally are born from the earth and live in it.
>no that's a dwarf it has TOO MUCH connection to earth
Oh that sounds like /tg/ alright.
Still better than here.
Innovation doesn't sell much unfortunately
this is ugly
no amount of innovation will save you with tasteless designs like this
Kuribute is neat though…
I know, but I need it to get out of EA as soon as possible so I can pirate it already
>PalWorld
That shit is a scam
>that image
Kys op