this, and also the popularization of instances and queues. MMOs stopped being MMOs and turned back into MUDs where you never have more than 5 players in any activity.
That's half the problem, the other is that frankly very few MMORPGs outside of a handful of private servers emulating pre WoW MMORPGs actually encourage people to be social in game. Someone posted XIV, there used to be lots of in game talk and there still is among the RP community but normalgays have absolutely flooded it now so they've treated in to private venues. Normalgays not being herded is the major issue, servers need actual communities and players need to rely on those communities to get anything accomplished. There's more socialization in content like Bozja where the game is specifically trying to emulate FFXI than there is in the actual game. Then on top of that, people get banned for very little. Too many games now are heavy handed and will hand out bans for really innocuous stuff even if it's just very mild disagreement and common phrases like "Frick off."
When metagaming is considered a problem it indicates a flaw in the game not the players but yeah the absence of in game communication fricking destroys it, worst thing is that it's 3rd party so unlike metagaming there's not much devs can do about it.
>Turn players in to disposable ghosts from dark souls with no value that can easily be replaced at any time >People wonder why they have no inherit value in game
It's like flooding a job market with low skilled labour then being shocked that out of 5,000 people you didn't get picked for the job.
>Metagaming and Discord killed MMOs.
no just metagaming. And you can thank both WoW and the moronic MMO community as a whole for that. Modern MMO enjoyers are the only audience that asks for the same slop every single year and is always pleased about it.
I remember growing up in an era where every MMO was distinct from one another, its own world. Now everything is just a tab target WoW clone with 0 depth and 0 risk
>Metagaming
This, now everyone wants a BiS otherwise you're not good enough for their guild or you're not having fun. Frankly you can blame WoW on this.
>Discord
Partially true, but they were going downhill with things like Mumble and the like. Now why seek community via a MMO when you can just find a community on discord full of people that like another thing you like?
That's half the problem, the other is that frankly very few MMORPGs outside of a handful of private servers emulating pre WoW MMORPGs actually encourage people to be social in game. Someone posted XIV, there used to be lots of in game talk and there still is among the RP community but normalgays have absolutely flooded it now so they've treated in to private venues. Normalgays not being herded is the major issue, servers need actual communities and players need to rely on those communities to get anything accomplished. There's more socialization in content like Bozja where the game is specifically trying to emulate FFXI than there is in the actual game. Then on top of that, people get banned for very little. Too many games now are heavy handed and will hand out bans for really innocuous stuff even if it's just very mild disagreement and common phrases like "Frick off."
I can't imagine normalgays still play MMORPGS en masse.
>I can't imagine normalgays still play MMORPGS en masse.
Then you're living in a fantasy land. Almost EVERY genre of game is mainstream. MMORPGs post WoW are normalgay central.
Absolutely not, zoomzoom. Ventrillo and Skype were massive during the MMO peak.
Back then most people playing mmos used no voice chat whatsoever, only tryhard homosexuals had dedicated ventrilo or ts. You can't have an ingame community with voice chat proliferation fullstop, as voicechat by design enables and breeds cliques.
Organization itself isn't the problem and never was. MMOs aren't Ganker, the ideal isn't a completely broken tower of babel situation where nobody can connect to anyone. Your post reads like autistic seethe over not being able to integrate with a clan group.
Just discord, everyone always knew everything and minmaxxed. There was never a lack of wikis or datamining or parselogging, what you actually miss is a majority of gamers being moronic kids.
This, what's the point of playing MMO if there is no interaction with other people
This is only partly right. Chats are dead because there is no fricking reason to talk to anyone. Need a group? Use the dungeon/raid/group finder. Need to sell something? Use the server wide auction house/market board/grand exchange. Need help with a quest? Of course you don't, the game tells and shows you exactly where to go, who to talk to and what to pick up. Need to go somewhere, but the mobs on the way are dangerous? Just fly over them or open your map to teleport to the other side of the world. MMOs have added so many conveniences over the years, that interacting with actual players have become completely optional at best and inconvenient at worst.
All MMOs have shit you can do by yourself mixed with stuff you NEED other people for. Anything that you can queue for is intended to be in the former category while providing an opportunity to network.
The thing is that being a lone wolf in MMO was something that only foolhardy or experienced players did, nowadays though, that is most common and supported playstyle. >Anything that you can queue for is intended to be in the former category while providing an opportunity to network.
That is only true on paper. When people queue a dungeon/raid they are not looking for social interaction, they are trying to complete the instance as soon as possible. Then you have shit like dailies and weeklies that encourage speedrunning through content because players have already done said dungeon/raid dozens of time before already. Nobody is interested in talking in a braindead easy dungeon that they are only doing to because it's a part of their daily quests.
Not to mention you have party commissars monitoring everything you say and good little informants reporting people for any infraction no matter how minor so saying anything even to friends ingame is a liability
This. What is even the point of the mute and block functions anymore?
This.
But the problem is even worse.
Because now if we make a game WITHOUT all those convenient things, people simply won't play them. "I didn't know where to go","there's too much walking","i don't know how to complete this quest or I can't kill this thing solo so I just won't kill it, it's just bad game design".
Gotta remember developers added those things, like LFG in the original WoW, because the players b***hed and moaned for them. The players changed, the games just changed to reflect that, too.
And that's the crux of the issue today. Giving players what they want, instead of what they need. Instead of a dungeon finder, make a group finder that can only be accessed from somewhere in a town and requires players to physically interact with a notice board or something to use the feature. Instead of server wide auction houses, let players setup stalls in a market or player-made shops. Quests were already fine, just have player ask each other for assistance and if they're feeling lazy they'll just look it up online.
Granted, some MMOs did the whole player shops thing, which was neat.
>The thing is that being a lone wolf in MMO was something that only foolhardy or experienced players did, nowadays though, that is most common and supported playstyle.
But it’s not. You can eek out an existence as a solo player and still do things but you’ll never fight the true bosses or have the best items
That's just raiding. Before you either had to play a specific class or be really good just to level up solo. Nowadays you can hit max level solo and the only time you'd ever join a party is when you're forced to by the game for a story mission or some shit.
Also, I must say that I am not fan of MMOs having main stories that are mandatory just for unlocking other zones, quests or other side content. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that MMOs shouldn't have a main story at all.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Leveling in modern MMOs is purely a formality they’re forced to include, as far as actual game design it’s replaced with gear score
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I know, and it fricking sucks. You'd think for a subscription based genre, they'd want you playing it for longer, so levelling would be an actual journey.
Not to mention you have party commissars monitoring everything you say and good little informants reporting people for any infraction no matter how minor so saying anything even to friends ingame is a liability
This.
But the problem is even worse.
Because now if we make a game WITHOUT all those convenient things, people simply won't play them. "I didn't know where to go","there's too much walking","i don't know how to complete this quest or I can't kill this thing solo so I just won't kill it, it's just bad game design".
Gotta remember developers added those things, like LFG in the original WoW, because the players b***hed and moaned for them. The players changed, the games just changed to reflect that, too.
it's a huge variety of issues, like the rise of social media/discord, the rise of guides/metagaming/efficiency, and the rise of everyone wanting to be perfectly catered to/not wanting any risk or challenge. Closest thing to an MMO nowadays you're gonna get is something like Dark and Darker or Tarkov, you better hope someone creates a linear progression system. I'd love to see someone combining the idea of those games with something like L4D versus mode. Imagine quests, where layout/objectives/traps change, and there's a chance for enemies to be 'possessed' by a player at any point. You managed to complete the quest, you level up, get more skills, etc, same shit as a normal MMO, and get to try more involved quests.
Guarantee you this would be cool as frick, but it probably still wouldn't take off because it would be all instanced and people want open worlds... Even though there's not been a single MMO that actually made good use of it's open world.
No, you're playing an instanced, singleplayer PS2 game and you know you are.
this. people realized mmos are literal fricking hamster wheel time wasters. most mmos have dogshit dialogue, story, and they take the worst most annoying parts of RPGs and multiply them by a billion and sprinkle FOMO and micro transactions over everything. People nowadays want to play 1-2 hours of online games with friends then frick off to school/college/job/outside, nobody wants to spend 10 hours in a raid or grinding 12 hours a day when a new expansion drops. mmos are literally incel/neet bait
>People nowadays want to play 1-2 hours of online games with friends then frick off to school/college/job/outside >school/college/job/outside
Zoomers don’t do this shit either, you go to the bar and there won’t be a single person under 30 there. They are just a very shy and anxious ppl, who mostly enjoy private and passive forms of entertainment
your autistic friend group of zoomers is not representative of reality, believe it or not 99% of people immediatly get a job after finishing hs/college, and have relatively healthy and active social lives
I’m a millennial. 2 weeks ago our zoomer intern started crying in front of an auditor (he’s a biological male). You guys aren’t tearing it up in the real world, and you aren’t fooling anyone but yourself
what are you even talking about schizo? who is talking about zoomer vs millenial vs boomer here? im talking about everyone, every single generation has 99% of people instantly getting jobs and having healthy social lives. you mentally lil neets playing MMOs are a tiny minority of freaks
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>what are you even talking about schizo? who is talking about zoomer vs millenial vs boomer here?
Listen up, AIDS-magnet: the decline in mmo games is caused by them not becoming popular among zoomers. That’s how it’s relevant. Seems pretty straightforward but years of heavy pharma has rendered you brown twinks mentally stunted.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
you sound like a literal homosexual, listen to yourself you creepy frick. just kys already like the rest of your troon mmo crew
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>troon >creepy >schizo
Can you even pronounce “schizo” without lisping?
>Zoomers don’t do this shit either, you go to the bar and there won’t be a single person under 30 there
nobody under 30 can afford to spend $10 a drink at a bar.
MMO were always shit but they became even worse now that games as a service is a thing and after developers realized yes morons really will pay actual money for overpriced palette swaps and other shit.
MMOs stopped being MMOs and all became proto-gacha with grinding daily tasks, endgame raids random loot drops.
Minecraft and the genre it spawned have captured the spirit of the classic MMO, freedom, exploration, some elements of the unknown no matter how deep into some wiki you get.
because the people who play them optimized all the fun out of it.
just look at classic, the game is fricking easy because years of experience shows you how moronic everyone was back then, but that doesn't stop people from going into raids with all the world buffs.
>how moronic everyone was back then
Incorrect. It shows how bolstered and carried bad players are these days. Classic would immediately be saved by fresh no-addon servers with slight balance changes. >b-b-but muh thottbot it has always been like this please believe me
If it isn't immediately convenient to do so the majority of people don't bother cheating. This is true for basically anything.
>Classic would immediately be saved by fresh no-addon servers with slight balance changes.
I can't imagine the rereleasing the same solved MMO is ever going to lead to a growing player base. The minimum to save "classic" as hypocritical as it sounds would probably be to add content that feels like it belongs in vanilla so people want to stick around and explore the world and not just raid log. >inb4 SoD exists
Low effort shit with retail abilities that appeals to next to no one.
the people that liked it for the social simulator have a billion social media sites and discord now
the people that liked pvp have hundreds of games in different genres that don't require you to grind for months to be able to compete
the exploration and discovery aspect died when datamining and youtube guides became the norm
and raiding/pve has only gotten an increasingly more difficult and grindy
the turboautists that like grinding and doing hundreds of daily tasks were always a small minority of the playerbase and now they are the only ones left
NO RISK
NO REWARD
MMO's are filled with a bunch of fricking homosexuals that are scared of confrontation, PVP, or just about anything challenging.
MMO's are no longer focused on building a world for people they just want to put out shit slop storylines that turn what is supposed to be a MMO into a souls like dungeon running clone.
A good MMO has: >Player PVP zones and the ability to duel whenever and wherever >Guild Wars >Castles/property that can be won through guild battles >Trade system that prioritizes player set up shops over npc ones (i.e. Discount skills, crafting for sale, ability to set up shops and AFK)
Guilds that can't fight each other have absolutely no purpose. MMOs have to be built in a sandbox form not a singular mission map. People should be able to walk freely find a town they like and make that place their home base.
Also yeah ban discord ERP gays ruined everything, people pander to this shit because these sexless losers give up the most money to pretend to be women online.
People that complain about no new PVPers in MMOs are the same people that b***h about players patching out PVP in Elden Ring. You're pissed that people aren't buying into the pyramid scheme and playing solely to get beaten by you or someone that actually knows how to play. Even if they did, you wouldn't leave them alone, you'd find ways to smurf and attack them past any safeguards, because "PVP" is just you hunting other players, nothing actually competitive or interesting.
In a sense I agree with the no risk no reward thing, it used to be exciting to take on challenges in older games with the risk that you might drop a piece of your gear or a piece of equipment might break, and this was okay because in 99% of cases you weren't using the meta minmax best shit, you were using what was readily available. The problem came when these games decided they wanted you to farm 1/2,495,000 kind of droprate items and then run the risk of losing them. On the other hand I have always thought MMO PvP was honestly pretty garbage beyond shittalking between duels or zerging opposing faction's settlements to disrupt the world, any kind of rank systems or leaderboards also made MMO PvP inherently shit because it became less about fricking around LARPing in a fantasy world and more about poopsocking to be a localized e-celeb on your server/game of choice.
Off the top of my head, the three biggest reasons I don't enjoy or even try MMOs anymore personally are >Every game just uses tier sets or exchange shops with non-trade equipment so there is no functional economy beyond bullshit pets/mounts/clothing skins >Every game is minmaxed to frick, datamined before release so it is pre-solved, or the devs are so scared of losing any money they never take any risks making their game repetitive and formulaic >Every game (and this one extends outside of MMOs) is borderline a ghost town of people just running arbitrary dailies/weeklies/battlepass-esque garbage, while they use third party stuff like Discord to talk.
Because the novelty of playing online with people from all over the world in a persistent virtual world that is always there wore off. Every single game nowadays is online in some way shape or form. MMOs still exist but they'll never be as popular as they were in the early 2000's, they're just yet another type of game.
>only the latest 10% of the available content is relevant >endgame focus also makes attracting new players difficult >chat is much more restrictive now, both because of tightening moderation and culture >gameplay hasn’t meaningfully changed in decades >80% of the game is effectively single player >for the remaining 20%, parties are made for you and there’s no conversation to be had with the sweats >dailiesweekliesmonthlies muh resets
MMOs are only good for mazed morons who cannot comprehend a life without their drug of choice.
MMOs demand a lot of your time.
Back when they were popular, they were all their players played. You had your MMO and you spent most of your game time on it.
Now people have a lot more options, and they spread their time out on a lot more games.
no one wants to be trapped in the MMO cage with thousands of trannies. MMOs were always full of them, but people were unaware of it back in the day. Now, you can't escape the troony menace in any MMO
I think it's partly because the novelty of the Internet died out
Everyone who's in their 20s right now grew up with the Internet, as opposed to when stuff like WoW was big
Anyone still playing GW2? How is it these days?
Kind of just want a chill game to grind and occasionally do pvp in that isn’t going to gouge me with sub fees. Tried TESO but didn’t like it.
Discord - Everyone is connected all the time, very annoying and GAY
Wikis and Guides - Nothing is a mystery anymore, everything is on a linear path for progression and gameplay
RNG - Doesn't kill an mmo, but getting to a boss that is possible to be beaten and drops loot but never the item you really want kills the man slowly
Public Party Play is fricking dead - You can't spam to join a party for a quest or an activity, everything is streamlined as far as joining a party, and no one talks, ever.
Grinds that exist get watered down later on - Nothing is special, and probably shouldn't have been that special to begin with.
Cosmetic/Progression Real Money Gacha - Frick you.
Koreans - All they do is play League and Valorent
Streamers - God awful person with terrible circles of engagement, usually gifted things by complete strangers online
Regional Differences - This is just straight up racism.
Old Content is still the starting point of everything - "The game really starts when you reach Level XX" "It gets good after XXX hours"
Political Events - What? Why? And why are people getting banned over it?
Sluggish ""Normal"" Exp rates vs Event """"Bonus"""" Exp rates with Character Boost - Why am I skipping the entire fricking game now.
Anti-QoL for the sake of the grind/old head mentality - Understandable sentiment, but it doesn't add charm because there's a couple reasons why it's already ruined. (See above)
Everything is trying to force you into playing 24/7 while extracting every bit of money you have, instead of providing a world with gameplay you want to play 24/7 and spend your money on. Pic extremely related as it went from great to time and money extraction machine.
Mmos died because every company started aping (big thing), only because (big thing) made it big so they want a piece of the pie before the next (big thing) comes for the cycle to repeat
All MMO devs "balanced" out all the fun in favor of esports competitive appeal. In hindsight, it didn't turn out so well for the genre now it's just relegated to cash shop dress up chatroom status
>flyff
god this shit was kino
it was a terrible, koreaasiatic garbage grindfest but my kid ass didn't know any better
The music was amazing though. I still can't identify what genre it is to find more music like it. It's like... A bossa nova/jazz fusion with EDM/Japanese pop.
?list=PLw34GTe_CUOQo90UdHOZ4-vM9DcdnHHJr
It's so unique.
MMORPGs in early 200x were free+downloadable+multiplayer. All these things were novel at the time.
At that point in time games came out in boxes, were singleplayer-only, sometimes with local multiplayer. Steam didn't exist. Smartphones didn't exist. Internet access has just become affordable and you were allowed to use the family computer after homework.
You better download that shit. All your friends are playing it.
Online games are just doing the same thing over and over again with no reward. How many times can you run around and kill some random shit without getting bored?
Players are too low quality. Too many shit people playing games in 2024. Everyone wants to be mediocre-as-frick yet act like elitists while doing nothing but walking around scanning chat looking for their "epic ratio moment". Nobody wants to be responsible for failure so we hide damage meters and scoreboards that way the best players have to endure carrying other players who do nothing but b***h, either accusing the better players of sucking or insulting them for being better.
MMOs are over because games like WoW and FF14 invited all of the fricking homosexual morons into the genre and now they won't leave.
I blame long time WoW players for killing the MMO genre.
Blizzard just keeps getting away with making billions for delivering absolute shit-tier products and other companies want to emulate this success.
I don't blame companies for continually working on an easy meal ticket.
If players would stop paying for this shit, companies would be forced to adept and actually make good products.
But no, morons must consume, consume, consume. Keeping the status quo of shitty mmos.
Metagaming and Discord killed MMOs.
It's disgusting how chats in MMOs are basically dead with most of the communication happening in """Discord"""
Honestly, this. Nobody wants to gather round in game to talk. It's "Hey we have a Discord please join"
I go out of my way to find guilds that don't have Discord.
this, and also the popularization of instances and queues. MMOs stopped being MMOs and turned back into MUDs where you never have more than 5 players in any activity.
That's half the problem, the other is that frankly very few MMORPGs outside of a handful of private servers emulating pre WoW MMORPGs actually encourage people to be social in game. Someone posted XIV, there used to be lots of in game talk and there still is among the RP community but normalgays have absolutely flooded it now so they've treated in to private venues. Normalgays not being herded is the major issue, servers need actual communities and players need to rely on those communities to get anything accomplished. There's more socialization in content like Bozja where the game is specifically trying to emulate FFXI than there is in the actual game. Then on top of that, people get banned for very little. Too many games now are heavy handed and will hand out bans for really innocuous stuff even if it's just very mild disagreement and common phrases like "Frick off."
When metagaming is considered a problem it indicates a flaw in the game not the players but yeah the absence of in game communication fricking destroys it, worst thing is that it's 3rd party so unlike metagaming there's not much devs can do about it.
no, it indicate flaw in game
>Turn players in to disposable ghosts from dark souls with no value that can easily be replaced at any time
>People wonder why they have no inherit value in game
It's like flooding a job market with low skilled labour then being shocked that out of 5,000 people you didn't get picked for the job.
>Metagaming and Discord killed MMOs.
no just metagaming. And you can thank both WoW and the moronic MMO community as a whole for that. Modern MMO enjoyers are the only audience that asks for the same slop every single year and is always pleased about it.
I remember growing up in an era where every MMO was distinct from one another, its own world. Now everything is just a tab target WoW clone with 0 depth and 0 risk
>Metagaming
This, now everyone wants a BiS otherwise you're not good enough for their guild or you're not having fun. Frankly you can blame WoW on this.
>Discord
Partially true, but they were going downhill with things like Mumble and the like. Now why seek community via a MMO when you can just find a community on discord full of people that like another thing you like?
I can't imagine normalgays still play MMORPGS en masse.
>I can't imagine normalgays still play MMORPGS en masse.
Then you're living in a fantasy land. Almost EVERY genre of game is mainstream. MMORPGs post WoW are normalgay central.
This, i miss the old text interaction with randons
Blame MMORPGs for never implementing voice chat and chat features in the game launcher to contact offline players.
>implementing voice chat
They don’t want to be responsible (or liable) for that shit
Frick off. Proliferation of voice chat is exactly what started this shit.
Back then you would use TeamSpeak or something.
Back then most people playing mmos used no voice chat whatsoever, only tryhard homosexuals had dedicated ventrilo or ts. You can't have an ingame community with voice chat proliferation fullstop, as voicechat by design enables and breeds cliques.
If you did serious raiding, you used voice. You can't communicate quick enough even with macros to manage all the moving pieces with text.
Organization itself isn't the problem and never was. MMOs aren't Ganker, the ideal isn't a completely broken tower of babel situation where nobody can connect to anyone. Your post reads like autistic seethe over not being able to integrate with a clan group.
Absolutely not, zoomzoom. Ventrillo and Skype were massive during the MMO peak.
Just discord, everyone always knew everything and minmaxxed. There was never a lack of wikis or datamining or parselogging, what you actually miss is a majority of gamers being moronic kids.
it still boggles my mind people gatekeep so they can save 1-2 minutes on clears. You guys are playing the mmo equivalent of pokemon
Does that mean that Discord is the real current MMO ?
Yes, they even have raids.
This, what's the point of playing MMO if there is no interaction with other people
This is only partly right. Chats are dead because there is no fricking reason to talk to anyone. Need a group? Use the dungeon/raid/group finder. Need to sell something? Use the server wide auction house/market board/grand exchange. Need help with a quest? Of course you don't, the game tells and shows you exactly where to go, who to talk to and what to pick up. Need to go somewhere, but the mobs on the way are dangerous? Just fly over them or open your map to teleport to the other side of the world. MMOs have added so many conveniences over the years, that interacting with actual players have become completely optional at best and inconvenient at worst.
All MMOs have shit you can do by yourself mixed with stuff you NEED other people for. Anything that you can queue for is intended to be in the former category while providing an opportunity to network.
The thing is that being a lone wolf in MMO was something that only foolhardy or experienced players did, nowadays though, that is most common and supported playstyle.
>Anything that you can queue for is intended to be in the former category while providing an opportunity to network.
That is only true on paper. When people queue a dungeon/raid they are not looking for social interaction, they are trying to complete the instance as soon as possible. Then you have shit like dailies and weeklies that encourage speedrunning through content because players have already done said dungeon/raid dozens of time before already. Nobody is interested in talking in a braindead easy dungeon that they are only doing to because it's a part of their daily quests.
This. What is even the point of the mute and block functions anymore?
And that's the crux of the issue today. Giving players what they want, instead of what they need. Instead of a dungeon finder, make a group finder that can only be accessed from somewhere in a town and requires players to physically interact with a notice board or something to use the feature. Instead of server wide auction houses, let players setup stalls in a market or player-made shops. Quests were already fine, just have player ask each other for assistance and if they're feeling lazy they'll just look it up online.
Granted, some MMOs did the whole player shops thing, which was neat.
>The thing is that being a lone wolf in MMO was something that only foolhardy or experienced players did, nowadays though, that is most common and supported playstyle.
But it’s not. You can eek out an existence as a solo player and still do things but you’ll never fight the true bosses or have the best items
That's just raiding. Before you either had to play a specific class or be really good just to level up solo. Nowadays you can hit max level solo and the only time you'd ever join a party is when you're forced to by the game for a story mission or some shit.
Also, I must say that I am not fan of MMOs having main stories that are mandatory just for unlocking other zones, quests or other side content. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that MMOs shouldn't have a main story at all.
Leveling in modern MMOs is purely a formality they’re forced to include, as far as actual game design it’s replaced with gear score
I know, and it fricking sucks. You'd think for a subscription based genre, they'd want you playing it for longer, so levelling would be an actual journey.
Not to mention you have party commissars monitoring everything you say and good little informants reporting people for any infraction no matter how minor so saying anything even to friends ingame is a liability
This.
But the problem is even worse.
Because now if we make a game WITHOUT all those convenient things, people simply won't play them. "I didn't know where to go","there's too much walking","i don't know how to complete this quest or I can't kill this thing solo so I just won't kill it, it's just bad game design".
Gotta remember developers added those things, like LFG in the original WoW, because the players b***hed and moaned for them. The players changed, the games just changed to reflect that, too.
wdym? I'm playing mmo right now
>Gridania
Not a mmo.
it's a huge variety of issues, like the rise of social media/discord, the rise of guides/metagaming/efficiency, and the rise of everyone wanting to be perfectly catered to/not wanting any risk or challenge. Closest thing to an MMO nowadays you're gonna get is something like Dark and Darker or Tarkov, you better hope someone creates a linear progression system. I'd love to see someone combining the idea of those games with something like L4D versus mode. Imagine quests, where layout/objectives/traps change, and there's a chance for enemies to be 'possessed' by a player at any point. You managed to complete the quest, you level up, get more skills, etc, same shit as a normal MMO, and get to try more involved quests.
Guarantee you this would be cool as frick, but it probably still wouldn't take off because it would be all instanced and people want open worlds... Even though there's not been a single MMO that actually made good use of it's open world.
No, you're playing an instanced, singleplayer PS2 game and you know you are.
fell off. everyone tried copying wow but didnt realize wow was a shit game.
task managers arent games
It's not a game. It's a virtual chore wheel where you talk about first world problems.
this. people realized mmos are literal fricking hamster wheel time wasters. most mmos have dogshit dialogue, story, and they take the worst most annoying parts of RPGs and multiply them by a billion and sprinkle FOMO and micro transactions over everything. People nowadays want to play 1-2 hours of online games with friends then frick off to school/college/job/outside, nobody wants to spend 10 hours in a raid or grinding 12 hours a day when a new expansion drops. mmos are literally incel/neet bait
>People nowadays want to play 1-2 hours of online games with friends then frick off to school/college/job/outside
>school/college/job/outside
Zoomers don’t do this shit either, you go to the bar and there won’t be a single person under 30 there. They are just a very shy and anxious ppl, who mostly enjoy private and passive forms of entertainment
your autistic friend group of zoomers is not representative of reality, believe it or not 99% of people immediatly get a job after finishing hs/college, and have relatively healthy and active social lives
I’m a millennial. 2 weeks ago our zoomer intern started crying in front of an auditor (he’s a biological male). You guys aren’t tearing it up in the real world, and you aren’t fooling anyone but yourself
what are you even talking about schizo? who is talking about zoomer vs millenial vs boomer here? im talking about everyone, every single generation has 99% of people instantly getting jobs and having healthy social lives. you mentally lil neets playing MMOs are a tiny minority of freaks
>what are you even talking about schizo? who is talking about zoomer vs millenial vs boomer here?
Listen up, AIDS-magnet: the decline in mmo games is caused by them not becoming popular among zoomers. That’s how it’s relevant. Seems pretty straightforward but years of heavy pharma has rendered you brown twinks mentally stunted.
you sound like a literal homosexual, listen to yourself you creepy frick. just kys already like the rest of your troon mmo crew
>troon
>creepy
>schizo
Can you even pronounce “schizo” without lisping?
>Zoomers don’t do this shit either, you go to the bar and there won’t be a single person under 30 there
nobody under 30 can afford to spend $10 a drink at a bar.
Zoomers don’t like them. It’s like pickle ball or bowling; millennials will be playing some xiv-clone in old ppls homes and zoomers jus won’t get it.
MMO were always shit but they became even worse now that games as a service is a thing and after developers realized yes morons really will pay actual money for overpriced palette swaps and other shit.
MMOs stopped being MMOs and all became proto-gacha with grinding daily tasks, endgame raids random loot drops.
Minecraft and the genre it spawned have captured the spirit of the classic MMO, freedom, exploration, some elements of the unknown no matter how deep into some wiki you get.
because the people who play them optimized all the fun out of it.
just look at classic, the game is fricking easy because years of experience shows you how moronic everyone was back then, but that doesn't stop people from going into raids with all the world buffs.
>how moronic everyone was back then
Incorrect. It shows how bolstered and carried bad players are these days. Classic would immediately be saved by fresh no-addon servers with slight balance changes.
>b-b-but muh thottbot it has always been like this please believe me
If it isn't immediately convenient to do so the majority of people don't bother cheating. This is true for basically anything.
>Classic would immediately be saved by fresh no-addon servers with slight balance changes.
I can't imagine the rereleasing the same solved MMO is ever going to lead to a growing player base. The minimum to save "classic" as hypocritical as it sounds would probably be to add content that feels like it belongs in vanilla so people want to stick around and explore the world and not just raid log.
>inb4 SoD exists
Low effort shit with retail abilities that appeals to next to no one.
leauge of legends, csgo,overawatch and valorfax ate the entire audience
Blizzard killed MMOs, FPSes, and RTSes with their supercasual bullshit.
the people that liked it for the social simulator have a billion social media sites and discord now
the people that liked pvp have hundreds of games in different genres that don't require you to grind for months to be able to compete
the exploration and discovery aspect died when datamining and youtube guides became the norm
and raiding/pve has only gotten an increasingly more difficult and grindy
the turboautists that like grinding and doing hundreds of daily tasks were always a small minority of the playerbase and now they are the only ones left
Live service games are the new mmo annon
In terms of occupying a similar fad market niche, sure. In terms of providing a similar experience, absolutely not.
zoomers and alphas have too much sugar in their diets and other ADHD incentives to get hooked to the skinner box mechanics
only boomers and millenials with too much invested in sunk cost fallacy play them
>no on ever mentions gen x with the stupid generational wars
why?
Gen X are too busy pretending not to care about anything.
I want Wildstar to come back. I still kick myself for not giving it a go when it was new.
NO RISK
NO REWARD
MMO's are filled with a bunch of fricking homosexuals that are scared of confrontation, PVP, or just about anything challenging.
MMO's are no longer focused on building a world for people they just want to put out shit slop storylines that turn what is supposed to be a MMO into a souls like dungeon running clone.
A good MMO has:
>Player PVP zones and the ability to duel whenever and wherever
>Guild Wars
>Castles/property that can be won through guild battles
>Trade system that prioritizes player set up shops over npc ones (i.e. Discount skills, crafting for sale, ability to set up shops and AFK)
Guilds that can't fight each other have absolutely no purpose. MMOs have to be built in a sandbox form not a singular mission map. People should be able to walk freely find a town they like and make that place their home base.
Also yeah ban discord ERP gays ruined everything, people pander to this shit because these sexless losers give up the most money to pretend to be women online.
The 3 best MMOs (all the EverQuest games) were great for their PvE mechanics. Frick PvP.
People that complain about no new PVPers in MMOs are the same people that b***h about players patching out PVP in Elden Ring. You're pissed that people aren't buying into the pyramid scheme and playing solely to get beaten by you or someone that actually knows how to play. Even if they did, you wouldn't leave them alone, you'd find ways to smurf and attack them past any safeguards, because "PVP" is just you hunting other players, nothing actually competitive or interesting.
In a sense I agree with the no risk no reward thing, it used to be exciting to take on challenges in older games with the risk that you might drop a piece of your gear or a piece of equipment might break, and this was okay because in 99% of cases you weren't using the meta minmax best shit, you were using what was readily available. The problem came when these games decided they wanted you to farm 1/2,495,000 kind of droprate items and then run the risk of losing them. On the other hand I have always thought MMO PvP was honestly pretty garbage beyond shittalking between duels or zerging opposing faction's settlements to disrupt the world, any kind of rank systems or leaderboards also made MMO PvP inherently shit because it became less about fricking around LARPing in a fantasy world and more about poopsocking to be a localized e-celeb on your server/game of choice.
Off the top of my head, the three biggest reasons I don't enjoy or even try MMOs anymore personally are
>Every game just uses tier sets or exchange shops with non-trade equipment so there is no functional economy beyond bullshit pets/mounts/clothing skins
>Every game is minmaxed to frick, datamined before release so it is pre-solved, or the devs are so scared of losing any money they never take any risks making their game repetitive and formulaic
>Every game (and this one extends outside of MMOs) is borderline a ghost town of people just running arbitrary dailies/weeklies/battlepass-esque garbage, while they use third party stuff like Discord to talk.
Albion is very popular these days.
I'm still playing MMOs to this day. They're doing fine. Shut the frick up, moron.
Because the novelty of playing online with people from all over the world in a persistent virtual world that is always there wore off. Every single game nowadays is online in some way shape or form. MMOs still exist but they'll never be as popular as they were in the early 2000's, they're just yet another type of game.
the 'good' mmos require you to have incredible amounts of free time, mostly because they were made by and for retired dot.com era software engineers.
social media replaced it
>only the latest 10% of the available content is relevant
>endgame focus also makes attracting new players difficult
>chat is much more restrictive now, both because of tightening moderation and culture
>gameplay hasn’t meaningfully changed in decades
>80% of the game is effectively single player
>for the remaining 20%, parties are made for you and there’s no conversation to be had with the sweats
>dailiesweekliesmonthlies muh resets
MMOs are only good for mazed morons who cannot comprehend a life without their drug of choice.
MMOs demand a lot of your time.
Back when they were popular, they were all their players played. You had your MMO and you spent most of your game time on it.
Now people have a lot more options, and they spread their time out on a lot more games.
no one wants to be trapped in the MMO cage with thousands of trannies. MMOs were always full of them, but people were unaware of it back in the day. Now, you can't escape the troony menace in any MMO
Most mmo are pay to win or have boring quest like ffxiv
They died with Tera
I think it's partly because the novelty of the Internet died out
Everyone who's in their 20s right now grew up with the Internet, as opposed to when stuff like WoW was big
Anyone still playing GW2? How is it these days?
Kind of just want a chill game to grind and occasionally do pvp in that isn’t going to gouge me with sub fees. Tried TESO but didn’t like it.
Discord servers/chats took over MMOs because the ingame communication avenues are all moderated to hell and back.
Discord - Everyone is connected all the time, very annoying and GAY
Wikis and Guides - Nothing is a mystery anymore, everything is on a linear path for progression and gameplay
RNG - Doesn't kill an mmo, but getting to a boss that is possible to be beaten and drops loot but never the item you really want kills the man slowly
Public Party Play is fricking dead - You can't spam to join a party for a quest or an activity, everything is streamlined as far as joining a party, and no one talks, ever.
Grinds that exist get watered down later on - Nothing is special, and probably shouldn't have been that special to begin with.
Cosmetic/Progression Real Money Gacha - Frick you.
Koreans - All they do is play League and Valorent
Streamers - God awful person with terrible circles of engagement, usually gifted things by complete strangers online
Regional Differences - This is just straight up racism.
Old Content is still the starting point of everything - "The game really starts when you reach Level XX" "It gets good after XXX hours"
Political Events - What? Why? And why are people getting banned over it?
Sluggish ""Normal"" Exp rates vs Event """"Bonus"""" Exp rates with Character Boost - Why am I skipping the entire fricking game now.
Anti-QoL for the sake of the grind/old head mentality - Understandable sentiment, but it doesn't add charm because there's a couple reasons why it's already ruined. (See above)
But that's just my opinion.
because nobody makes good MMOs anymore. It's really as simple as that
Everything is trying to force you into playing 24/7 while extracting every bit of money you have, instead of providing a world with gameplay you want to play 24/7 and spend your money on. Pic extremely related as it went from great to time and money extraction machine.
Mmos died because every company started aping (big thing), only because (big thing) made it big so they want a piece of the pie before the next (big thing) comes for the cycle to repeat
All MMO devs "balanced" out all the fun in favor of esports competitive appeal. In hindsight, it didn't turn out so well for the genre now it's just relegated to cash shop dress up chatroom status
Because practically every game has multiplayer nowadays and during the heyday of MMOs that wasn't really the case so they lost some of their lustre.
>flyff
god this shit was kino
it was a terrible, koreaasiatic garbage grindfest but my kid ass didn't know any better
The music was amazing though. I still can't identify what genre it is to find more music like it. It's like... A bossa nova/jazz fusion with EDM/Japanese pop.
?list=PLw34GTe_CUOQo90UdHOZ4-vM9DcdnHHJr
It's so unique.
The entire appeal of MMOs back in the day was being a living breathing online world full of other humans to communicate with through the internet
with the advent of smartphones and social media and mass internet access, that idea is no longer novel
simple as
they rejected the lore of their worlds in favour of selling items and creating endless grinds; as a result, such games have nothing to do in them
MMORPGs in early 200x were free+downloadable+multiplayer. All these things were novel at the time.
At that point in time games came out in boxes, were singleplayer-only, sometimes with local multiplayer. Steam didn't exist. Smartphones didn't exist. Internet access has just become affordable and you were allowed to use the family computer after homework.
You better download that shit. All your friends are playing it.
Online games are just doing the same thing over and over again with no reward. How many times can you run around and kill some random shit without getting bored?
Players are too low quality. Too many shit people playing games in 2024. Everyone wants to be mediocre-as-frick yet act like elitists while doing nothing but walking around scanning chat looking for their "epic ratio moment". Nobody wants to be responsible for failure so we hide damage meters and scoreboards that way the best players have to endure carrying other players who do nothing but b***h, either accusing the better players of sucking or insulting them for being better.
MMOs are over because games like WoW and FF14 invited all of the fricking homosexual morons into the genre and now they won't leave.
>damage meters and scoreboards
Such garbage never had any place in MMOs to begin with
I blame long time WoW players for killing the MMO genre.
Blizzard just keeps getting away with making billions for delivering absolute shit-tier products and other companies want to emulate this success.
I don't blame companies for continually working on an easy meal ticket.
If players would stop paying for this shit, companies would be forced to adept and actually make good products.
But no, morons must consume, consume, consume. Keeping the status quo of shitty mmos.