why is NWN relatively obscure with the popularity of later obsidian and bioware games? i see more talk about arcanum
why is NWN relatively obscure with the popularity of later obsidian and bioware games? i see more talk about arcanum
why is NWN relatively obscure with the popularity of later obsidian and bioware games? i see more talk about arcanum
Because it's not really a great game. More remembered for the modding scene and Bioware essentially being on the cutting edge of DLC with premium modules.
Zoomers assemble!
>disliking the nwn oc is a zoomer opinion
It was literally the most disliked and frequently brought up critique of the game all the way back when it launched you brainlet contrarian. NWN 1 was saved purely by user modules+HoTU.
>It was literally the most disliked and frequently brought up critique of the game all the way back when it launched
No it wasnt.
>NWN 1 was saved purely by user modules+HoTU.
>A toolset was saved by being a toolset
No way!
You going to shut up or will you embrass yourself further by showing off how clueless you are on the topic?
The game filtering you is a you problem, zoom-zoom.
Yes it was you revisionist piece of shit. The OC is terrible and has only one or two redeeming features per chapter.
>Yes it was
No it wasnt.
>The OC is terrible
No its not.
>only one or two redeeming features per chapter.
You have no redeeming features.
Nice rewrite, cuck. Keep trying.
A lot of the things from the past that have had a negative reaction come back to newer generations from positive reaction to cult following. This is present in all forms of media and beyond.
Which has zero relevance to anything because most people still rightfully hate NWN's shitty OC.
It's almost as if this generation lends itself to what ecelebs, youtubers, social media and their peers think and parrot that instead of actually experiencing the product themselves. Anyone(with a brain) that has sat during pathfinder in 2022 will have infinitely more fun in the OC. That is a fact.
this it's exactly the grim yawn gays. Noone actually plays the game they just reapeat it because everyone says it when its actually a really good game
>most people
born before 1995, yeah. But then, are they really "people"?
NWN1 campaign was dogshit on release and a massive disappointment after BG2. I only finished it almost a decade later after several attempts over the years
Stop trying to fit in so hard by claiming to be an "oldgay"
There isn't a single sentence in your post that isnt either wrong or moronic.
I still prefer the oc to anything out today. And I agree coomers need to go back.
Mate this ain't an echochamber not everyone will agree with you and if they dont it's not bait. DND is like a ressurected corpse displayed and raped continuously to death by purple haired cultists.
That is not to say that the modules like Aielund saga are bad, not at all. These things were made during a different time by different people with different midnsets than today. I prefer that philosophy to today. The hobby wasn't as widespread as well so corporatins didn't inject bots into every single facet of news media and discussion to drown out anyone so they can push their own agendas. You play the oc its the product of it's time and that's why it's infinitely better.
Ok enjoy your special snowflake critical role zoomies pushing their totally not politically oriented campaigns on news sites pushed by bots and paid shills who are definitely not raising laundering(sorry charity) funds for a domestic terrorist groups at all!
Or on a more direct level, enjoy sitting in your group when a dm has no choice but to homebrew his own shit because there's literally nothing left that wasn't either taken out, warped by people with very little nerves or genuinely just casualized so much so that you college friends can also join in the fun
Or just imagine being a coomer. Nothing is ever enough for you no amount of servers you join, no shock value gets to you anymore so you have to comfort yourself with just a "regular" rp server just to stay on baseline. No amount of furgay commissions you do gets to you anymore and nothing phases you at all, you've turned into some kind of cynical self-absorbed narcissist gremlinoid that needs a miracle to feel anything at this point. You are literally the type to put coomer elf bimbo portraits in baldurs gate just because and then jerk yourself off literally and metaphorically about how superior it is, even though it's just some portraits and there's nothing else. I literally saw this type of guy in a thread here the other day, I see you morons in reddit, in discord. Is it really such a surprise that you'll never see any value in anything outside of that, much less nwn oc? You'll bring out confirmation biases and arguments that sound logic to you about how bad it is and maybe you'll even feel something for a brief moment but it still doesn't change reality. Which is:
Contemporary dnd is absolute garbage mate, you can say that NWN casualized 2e but that was THEN. Today is today. And today DND is such a hot piece of garbage that NWN back THEN is prime gold. Maybe that's sad to you but that's how it is and there's nothing you can say about it. These are things that are bigger than you or me. It's life.
The OC didn't become better because of 5E being a shit system. It's still just as bad as it was in 2002.
Ok mate
Go to a meetup and play a game this week. Then you can say about what is redeemable about contemporary DND. I'd rather play the original oc and modules 9 times out of 10. If you had fun, I'm not gonna shit on you because good for you, it's not for my generation. Hope you make something out of yours. OC NWN is my gen. The product of it's time and it accomplishes that well. That is it's value.
Shut up moron. It takes 5 seconds of Googling to find people shitting on the OC before any of the expansions were out. The OC was bad, it was a deliberate low effort campaign meant as an example for the community to work off of and not as a serious RPG campaign, and your autistic fixation on it is not going to change that.
Learn to read the post you're replying to. First of all you're replying to at least 2 people. I never said the OC reaction was favorable, I don't care about that. Second, you couldn't be more wrong about it. I've brought arguments, personal experience both from this game and DND as a whole. Meanwhile you sit in your basement and have never even been to a dnd game. NWN is based on DND, it's not an autistic fixation. How braindead can you be?
People who actually played 3E were even more likely to hate the OC.
I played 2 and 3E and I fricking love NWN's base content. It explicitly explained why it made the changes it did in the manual and I always respected that.
So did I and the OC was very obviously a piece of shit. SoU was at least acceptable and HotU was good. It's not a coincidence that the part of my D&D group that played NWN with me all agreed to abandon the OC in chapter 2 in favor of playing any other module we could find.
Ch2 is a particular lowpoint, but the Four Beast Hunt and ending are gold. HotU is amazing because it made official a lot of the stuff from the CEP. In general I really rate all three official NWN1 releases and still replay them yearly
The only good part of chapter 2 is Charwood.
It's still a good part though. Sexy Dryad b***hes.
All this proves is that your made-up friends are zoomers just like you.
Stay delusional.
I didn't exactly love it at release either. Level design especially wasn't very good. Look at 5e layouts today and see how linear and braindead everything is because it makes the oc look really good by comparison. This is the strange reality we now live in.
Did you really save this image from some other post on 4ch then erased some of the numbers so you can find it easier? How many of these stupid things do you have, look at yourself. The one baiting here is you, with this dumb useless shit that you save on your pc. If I wanted to bait I'd shit up the thread with sojacks or whatever, learn to accept that other people have different experiences than you and each person has their own value for themselves in life.
Post your whole folder I guess, don't know what else to tell you.
>Or on a more direct level, enjoy sitting in your group when a dm has no choice but to homebrew his own shit because there's literally nothing left
Not a bad thing really.
So long as you're playing a system like old Gygax-era D&D.
>"I can't read!"
>"need to be pretty movies and everything should be spoken to me :)"
Voice acting and cinematics are a plague on the industry especially with their cost.
I agree. It detracts too much from the actual game. Just look at bg3, alot of their dev time is being put into VA work and sex scenes.
>Cinematics and voice over belong to the most important things in games for me.
Basically Bioware saw the modding community for BG2, and hoped the content would make itself.
That was a mistake sadly.
that's what made it a great game, only moutbreathers give a shit about the default campaign
The base game isn't fun and you have to hunt for user made modules which aren't that good either tbh
darkness over daggerford is bg1 tier kino, sou and hotu are good adventures and hotu has some schizo shit with that angel guy in the end
Because it's single player campaign (pre-DLC) was shit.
DLC was decent though, and user created content was... variable in quality, but produces some legendary stuff.
NWN2 was even better in that regard though.
What modules are actually worth playing? Bought Daggerford for my phone and started Mask of the Betrayer for 2 on PC
Darkness over daggerford doesn't take itself too seriously and has a cliche main villian, companion cast is cliche too - a neutral(good) fighter and a chaotic neutral tiefling, but that means you can actually play wizard in a nwn module comfortably for once. mask of the betrayer is just a masterpiece, planescape torment level writing, if not higher
it was the dominant rpg of its era but that was fueled by the modding and online communities. once they died down you were left with a serviceable but not really exceptional engine that doesn't have a lot of appeal beyond nostalgia and modability.
>it was the dominant rpg of its era
Maybe.
1. Ignores MMORPGs, which were maximum hype in the early 2000s.
Ultima Online (1997 - peaked around 2001)
Everquest (1999 - peaked around 2002)
Dark Age of Camelot (2001)
Final Fantasy XI (2002)
Star Wars Galaxies (2003)
World of Warcraft (2004)
2. Single-player competition was weak. Several major WRPG franchises crashed and burned around that time. Ultima, Might and Magic, and Wizardry all had their final entries (of those final entries, only Wizardry 8 was good and Sir-Tech Canada closed anyway). Troika's games were buggy. That basically left Elder Scrolls (Morrowind, Oblivion) as the only other major franchise.
Not that anon but that's not how I remember it. Wizardry and Ultima were already pretty irrelevant in the late 90s besides Ultima Online. MMOs were fine but it was obvious that they couldn't live up to the RP part early on. It would be the mid 00s before more people had reliable internet access and MMOs really peaked.
Elderscrolls wasn't a big franchise, Morrowind did well, and some autists like Daggerfall and Arena which were shareware. The other two ES games were completely irrelevant.
BGII was not that old and ToB just came out in 2001 making it relevant, Diablo II was also still relevant and had expansions, Might and Magic released a few somewhat relevant games until around 2000 but it didn't seem apparent they would stop. Remember that most people got their game developer news at that point through magazines. Dungeon Siege came out around then too which was pretty spectacular and had some hype around modding but ultimately it never got the traction NWN and Morrowind did in that regard. Pool of Radiance 2 was also fairly new and was a 3rd edition game with gamespy multiplayer. I tried Pool of Radiance and Dungeon Siege multiplayer too and they were kind of buggy and laggy. Arcanum also came out in 2001 but was a mess and hitting the bargain section pretty hard so I tried that too. Temple of Elemental Evil would come out in 2003 and various expansions for a few other games did too like NWN HotU around 2003/2004. I'm definitely missing a few games from that era.
I played a lot of them but ultimately NWN with persistent worlds just had more staying power and the multiplayer was pretty smooth compared to a lot of other early experiences. Single player competition was huge back then, it was a great time to be an RPG fan, but NWN was king of multiplayer. MMOs were fun but lacked that essential RP experience, it was more like playing Diablo. So you would play NWN, join a server, get banned, join another 10, all unique worlds packed with players.
Oh right Planescape came out around 1999/2000 too but everyone slept on it until it hit the bargain bins around 2001 or so. IWD and IWD II was also good fun, release in 2000 and 2002 respectively. Oh and Fallout Tactics, Deus Ex, Jagged Alliance 2, Nox, Dink Smallwood, Knights of the Old Republic, VtM, Sacred. A whole bunch of releases most of which were single player. It really was like an endless stream of single player rpgs for every mood.
>BGII was not that old
Yeah but the Infinity Engine itself was. BGII was a huge game that cast a major shadow on the CRPG genre. Games still copy it harder than they should. But nobody thought 2d sprites on pre-rendered backgrounds was going to be the future of RPGs for the next decade well before NWN even came out.
>MMOs were fine but it was obvious that they couldn't live up to the RP part early on
They were absolutely huge. World of Warcraft was the dominant GAME of the 2000s not just of RPGs, and those other games like Everquest, DAoC, and SWG were all building to that. MMOs had a major influence on the RPG sector. Many devs that might have been interested in making traditional single-player RPGs with cutting-edge tech went the MMORPG route instead.
The engine was updated, which isn't the point though. It's addressing the issue if there was no competition in the single player RPG market and if the multiplayer space was over saturated.
MMOs only really peaked in the mid-late 00s. When NWN came out there just weren't enough people with a stable internet connection. Heck, some were still on dial-up. Even then MMOs never met the needs for RPG fans. The fact that everyone played WoW and there were Mr.T commercials for WoW did not push RPGs out of the multiplayer space or diminish their fanbase. RPG devs didn't go the MMO route either. Many teams were pretty inexperienced, after launch even more so. Many hired dev staff from their QA and GM teams which is a whole thing itself that arguably led to a lot of shit that saw many close down or fail long-term. It's mostly a different parallel lineage to the RPG with a lot of big IPs getting their own MMO at some point until it was a joke.
Take the development, expectations and release of the MMO called Neverwinter. It was a huge let down to D&D fans and to NWN fans alike. The dev team made some superficial nods to NWN and even called their updates 'mod' which is the most ridiculous marketing-brained idea I've ever heard. Nobody was inspired by it, nobody asked other devs if their game is going to be like the Neverwinter MMO. They do that for NWN though, which shows how much of an influence it all had. MMOs were ambitious at the start but were reductive Skinner Boxes by the mid-late 00s. The Raph Kosters were all replaced by middle managers.
Do you want to know what the culmination and high point of the MMO design space was on the RPG? Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. Do I need to explain what I mean by this?
>Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Over budget mediocrity and aren't we glad.
I love the original campaigns. Literally SOUL. Compare it to the garbage that d&d is today it's an absolute breath of fresh air type of SOUL. Literally wholesome and pure SOUL.
Everyone that says otherwise can frick off to their containment degenerate to servers or whatever else 5e garbage you jerk off to. Disgusting souless filth.
wailing death is shit and you're moronic for saying otherwise
There isn't anything with as much purity of heart and mind in this franchise than the original campaigns. This is not a debate.
Look at them, like clockwork. Go back to your flavor of the month dumpster coomer garbage. The souless 5e garbage youve sold your soul to mega corporations and marketing companies that completely twisted our hobby inside and out. You have forfeited all shred of your humanity and soul for pleasure, idleness and degeneracy. It's pointless bro even argue with pigs, you get dirty and the swine enjoys the filth. You should all feel ashamed but you won't, of course you'll be reactionary this way, it's easier to destroy and consoom. It's too late for you to be anything other than a ugly, twisted dirty pig that will swallow anything at this point.
make better bait
I speak the truth. You're a filthy swine, you willingly allowed yourself to be smeared with all this degenerate and disgusting shit so much that you will never even begin to feel the purity and grace of what the OC is compared to our current hobby. I'd tell you to have a nice day but you're already on a path to slow decay and rot. Sit and out bait yourselves like a pack of animals as much as you want, the truth was spoken and my job is done.
>sold your soul to mega corporations and marketing companies that completely twisted our hobby inside and out.
the recent trailer for the movie presented a dull miserable quippy reddit version of what European sword and sorcery fantasy is meant to be, so it's actually perfectly representative of both the current edition of dungeons and dragons and the majority of dungeons and dragons players today
D&D was always progressive garbage. Faerun fricking sucks. It's not like this movie is shitting on some good lore or forcing in diversity where it never existed. The setting has always been shit and there's always been mongrels in it. Chuds aren't even finding another dumbass hill to die on, they're building the hill first to try and die on it.
With morons like you in our hobby it's no wonder it's gone to complete shit.
>soul is literal last second filler content that the developers themselves admitted and confirmed in multiple interviews was designed to be as mindless boring and generic as possible
because it's not that good
I'm going to go out on a limb and point out something that nobody else probably has, that being the fricking awful UI for dialogue.
>bro so, we're going to have text based dialogue in a CRPG way right
>but
>but
>wait
>what if instead of making it centered on the bottom-middle like in all other text based games, we scrunched it into a tiny box at the top left corner of the screen
>then, what if we made it so that rereading conversations required fiddling around with a box on the bottom left corner of the screen
It's inherently counterintuitive, feels awful and makes me skip most dialogue because it causes literal eyestrain. In short, it's self sabotage by poor game design.
Tried playing this (the original campaign) but its just so boring, running around in the city only able to have one party member which I can't even control and fricknig auto attacking enemies. I've never been so bored in my life, and also 3e is fricking wack.
How do I learn to enjoy this?
Play an overpowered class and bring Grimgnaw so the combat goes smoother.
Channel your inner Alex Jones so the the plotline becomes more appealing.
For how many levels does the original campaign stretch? Does it go all the way up to level 20? I'm only level 4 right now and its dreadfully boring. That could probably be explained by me playing a fighter though, I was thinking of dual-classing into fighter/druid at some point. Also is there any way I can take full control over my companion?
>fighter
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Is it Human Male Shield and Sword? Fighter can be good but it takes levels, quite a few and that's only single spec as you've already figured it out on your own.
What do you want, auto-attack, buff then auto-attack or rest every couple fights?
the thing I actually want is the ability to control my party members individually
Play something else then, moron. An actual TTRPG for example.
Technically u can level up to 20 (or 40 with HotU), but realistically u ll finish it at lvl 17-18
>grimgnaw
Bringing him means making a thief pc because someone needs to disable traps and open chests. Play Hordes of The underdark or daggerford where you can have a tank and a thief, so you can play as any class you want
>Bringing him means making a thief pc because someone needs to disable traps and open chests.
False. Grimgnaw will disarm every trap by triggering and dodging them, and then will bash the container faster than you would unlock it.
As long as you take Grimgnaw, you can play as any class, regardless if strong, weak or even useless.
Stop speaking like monkey for starters.
no text low tier image posts are a sign of a completely defeated broken mind
Because it was marketed as the successor to BG2, yet what they delivered was a D&D Diablo campaign without most of the things that made BG2 memorable. The addons were solid RPGs, but didn't do anything remarkable.
It's not obscure, anyone born before 1995 loves this game. It's honestly a great filter. If people don't like NWN, especially HotU which made official a lot of community features from the CEP, their opinions on any and all other RPGs can be discarded.
Why do zoomer pretend the OC was good now?
Millenials think it actually was. Zoomers don't know shit. Put them all in the sea.
Millennial here. NWN was one of my first RPGs, and I still don't think it was good.
The entire OC only had some decent parts in the first chapter, mainly due to the atmosphere. (City being torn apart by unknown epidemic, prisoners riot, shady bandits and cults) Everything else was bland as frick. Diablo-style single character DnD gameplay was clearly inferior to any other DnD game I tried at the time. First expansion was just as boring as the OC, and second one "saved the day" by adding high level build autism, which was alright, but not enough to call the entire thing a success.
I enjoyed it as a kid 2bh.
because the base game is shit and only the DLCs are somewhat salvageable. the real enjoyment of this game lies in community made campaigns (like festerpot's such as almraiven).
idk probably because the base game isnt really that memorable, A Dance With Rogue on the other hand
The single player aspect is completely irrelevant and forgettable. So, the only people talking about the game are multiplayer type of players.
Can we trust erping trannies though?
>trannies
they play weebshit like genshin impact not old crpg
You would be surprised.
>completely irrelevant and forgettable.
Like your lives. Literally every single souless homosexual talking shit in this thread.
Remember, no matter how hard you try, NWN will always be the same piece of excrement praised for its modules, multiplayer and nothing else. Nothing else at all. Try again with DA2, those were better attempts to rewrite history.
>caring about other people's opinions
>placing value on anything based on what someone else tells you
NWN is timeless. Twenty years later still. People with enough brains will see the value for themselves, without all of your endless israelitery. You are completely hopeless.
I play the oc every now and then and no post here or anywhere else will ruin that experience. People like you try too hard to get into other people's heads like some kind of petty power play, it lends itself by default on a website such as Ganker but what you don't understand is if someone genuinely loves something and it means something to them, you will never win. You'll tell yourself how stupid they are and convince yourself with arguments but at the end of the day they are having a good time with something that you are too screwed up in the head to be able to. That's really sad, man. My advice to you is if it's not something you like, that's cool but keep your opinion to yourself unless asked for otherwise, you know.
And another thing that people seem to forget is that we all love the game. And if a game means a lot of different things for a lot of people that shouldn't divide us, that should make us stronger as a community. We don't have many games like this anymore guys, remember that.
Because it's a shit game.
The only good thing about it is the toolset, and a game that relies entirely on user-generated content to be worth playing isn't worth playing at all.
>a game that relies entirely on user-generated content to be worth playing isn't worth playing at all.
>the entirety of rpgmaker
go down the 1/3 of the catalog and say that in every thread too
>the entirety of rpgmaker
Oh no!
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you are implying that there are no good games made in rpgmaker? Because if that's your implication then die in a fire you stupid bastard.
1000 years of suffering on your entire lineage.
You're such a dramatic homosexual
omori is bad, have a nice day troony
Black souls is a masterpiece, you can frick off
>a game where the only original assets are the shitty porn cutscenes is a masterpiece.
Lmao? Is this really the best rpgmaker trannies have to offer?
Never played it, Black person.
Neither did I.
That's what I've said. As in YOU have never played the game you're talking shit about. Reading comprehension, you dumb animaloid.
>you are the dumb one because i cant write properly.
Ok, lmao.
Anyways.
Feel free to prove me wrong about anything outside of the porn being actually made by that pedobaiting amateur coom "artist".(you cant)
>game has a few sex scenes
>THE COOMERS ARE IN THE ROOM WITH ME AHHHHHHH
How about you play the actual games you quadruple fricking homosexual and then we can, maybe, have a conversation.
>the troony "ARE IN THE ROOM WITH ME" meme
Get some actual arguments and then we can, maybe, have a conversation.
The sex scenes aren't the highlight of the games. They never were. You've just seen some pngs online and made a stupid, ignorant opinion like an animal. Play the games then you can speak.
And that statement was said to make you reflect upon just how much this website has completely melted your brain. Re-read your post very slowly and carefully. Take a break from this website at the latest.
>The sex scenes aren't the highlight of the games.
the black souls general disagrees
>this website has completely melted your brain
coming from a troony thats hillarious
You're not a regular in the threads, you haven't even played the games and you can't possibly know without a passing glance what the discussions were at all or what the game is all about. The recent general is filled with morons like you that come in, say a stupid quip and then leave. Still waiting for you to actually play the games, then you can speak.
>coomer this, troony that
Complete brain rot.
>You're not a regular in the threads
Why would i be a regular in a shitty unoriginal porn game made up 99% of premade assets.
>Still waiting for you to actually play the games.
no.
>complete brain rot.
More troony buzzwords.
Lemme guess "rentfree" is next.
>muh good faith
>desperately trying to gaslight and buzzword your way through instead of proving anything i said wrong.
lmao.
Also you're yet to prove that there anything outside of the porn was made by the "creator" of black souls.
The proof is in the game itself, which if you are going to criticize in "good faith" you should have played and known about. Which you don't. Play the game, then you can criticize. That's how it works, until then you are an idiot just talking shit.
Go back.
And what if i dont?
We will remaind you that you will never be a woman until you suffer a mental breakdown and you kys.
Don't forget to dilate btw, please, you fon't want that wound to heal.
And i will remind you that i will always be a woman until you suffer a mental breakdown and you kys.
In fact you don't care neither about NWN or this game. All you care about is attention and yous, so you purposefully seek out conflict like bread crumbs in any small bit of that you can beg for like a wretched dog. Here's your pity you.
Thankfully HotU exists so your criticism doesn't apply to nwn1.
HotU is overrated
You're right, people who say it's perfect overrate it. It's merely exceptionally good.
Meh. It was kind of decent at best, barely above the original campaign which I sort of enjoyed.
Even so fan campaigns are redemption of the game. Like, say, Shadowlords.
I tried giving this game a try because Ganker said its underrated gem but then i quit in the tutorial because this game controlls HORRIBLY and im not even new to games where you move with the mouse.(i refunded it cuz i bought on steam)
I think im just not going to listen to Ganker's opinions on games anymore everytime i fall for the shit you all try to shill for i just get disapointed again.
Sorry you fell for OCgays lies anon, they're grifter that want you to waste your time on a shitty game like they did
>to waste your time
where do you think you are lol
Use WASD to move.
Neverwinter's not obscure you pic related
but it didn't do anything to impress like the rest.
The opening's a straight LotR's ripoff. You have a ring and your village is under attack! Get going! Even Arcanum, which also had a ring plot item, spiced it up by having the attacked place be a zeppelin instead of your village home and the attackers are orcs in biplanes.
From there it's pretty forgettable. Dwarven monk to be iconoclastic. You're the chosen one.
too complex
>play NWN
>its legitimate dogshit
>"BROOO BUT THE MODULES BRO"
>play most popular module
>its a 50 shades bawd simulator
nwnoids...
Make your own, homosexual.
almraiven
>its a 50 shades bawd simulator
sauce me pls
dance with rogues, and I reckon it's popular precisely just because it's a bunch of smut
meh
I wish paladin trilogy got completed. Even with unoriginal names it was cute.
ADWR is actually pretty damn good even beyond smut simulator (though yeah, the smut is a big part of it, just not the only part)
And yeah holy shit I wish the Paladin trilogy hadn't been dropped, it was one of my favorites
>its bad because its bad
And this is how you detect zoomers.
2709163
Shut up grifter, it was explained multiple times to you and the answer is "no". Then that's it. Nobody is giving out yous in the thread anymore. Move on to another corpse, parasite.
I accept your concession, troony.
How has nobody seen the niche and tried to make a modern Aurora toolset?
Or even just an RPGmaker for CRPGS? For fricks sake we have a dozen VTT alternatives to roll20 in current year yet nobody, nobody has thought of this shit.
People thought about it for sure but then they realized they would get at most even if they do everything perfectly maybe 1000 sales and they decided to not waste their time on making something noone will use.
On this subject
>want to make user modules, have great ideas floating in my head
>rpgmaker is shit and can only do jrpg garbage, plus it's oversaturated and to actually make something worth publishing I'd have to do everything myself anyway
>Aurora Toolset for NWN is fricking dead, maybe one of you can correct me if I'm wrong but the module making community is basically gone, and the rare new thing released gets maybe 3 downloads
>Solasta is limited garbage that is already dying due to the devs not seeing the potential in the DM
Unironically what do
>How has nobody seen the niche
People tried. Solasta was meant to be one of the attempts iirc.
Thing is, modding scenes tend to appear when the game is popular, not when it's easily moddable.
There's no point in trying to fill that niche when the only way to do it is to also be a good game, at that point you're better off focusing on the game and release the tools as added content.
>Solasta was meant to be one of the attempts iirc.
I will never forgive the devs for what they did with the dungeon maker.
An entire year just to add the basic b***h ability to have quests and dialogues with NPCs with the newest expansion a few months. It caused a big influx of people, then when said people saw the bugs Solasta has mixed with the apathy of the devs and the fact that it doesn't come close to NWN 1 or 2 they all left.
>Solasta
I will never forgive them for pic related
I don't care about your outrage bait over graphical downgrades, I care about module development tools. The characters could all be purple haired transsexuals and if the tools were good I'd still play it happily.
This game is probably one of the ugliest ones I've ever played
>his mind is so broken he's literally talking to himself
lol
Cease the trans hate or I will delete this thread
-OP
I know you're not OP and are just shitposting but you do realize that you can't delete threads that are up for more than like 30 minutes right?
watch this
Watch what?
Your corpse hanging from your cealing fan when you realize youll never be a woman?
Lmao I never expected for the mentally ill lunatic to completely go off on a mindbreak streak like this
if you weren't in a position at the time to download the user created modules (most of which were shit) then you had the OC and the two expansions, of which only HOTU was really top notch.
Bioware and their associated studios and offshoots were the gold standard for CRPGs at that time, and NWN while a technological leap forward was a massive step backwards by all the metrics that mattered compared to what Black Isle, Interplay, Troika etc had been making before or around that time
It's really unsurprising to me that in a thread about a game known mostly for degenerate erping has devolved into shitflinging about flavor of the month boogeymen, samegayging and other garbage israelitery.
I take the stance on OC as well. You disgusting homosexuals have twisted a decent game for your sick and deranged fantasies and your minds are fricking broken. Look at this thread. Fricking hell, look at yourselves.
meds
a dance of rogues or something like that.
>first fight out of the motb tutorial is against a wizard that casts 1000 spells and a bunch of trash mobs with immunities and cc
any module with good writing that doesnt start you off with autistic levels of power creep?
Yeah, MotB on very easy.
>Quit to Desktop
>Playing rogue in campaign full of crit immune enemies
are you dumb? i played rogue/assassin in motb and it was a cake walk. hips and epic precision leads to a lot of instant deaths
First you need to get those feats. Which level are they available? 24? And even then you are scrawny subpar damage dealer. Sure, you can play the game without missing out on optional fights but there are builds stronger and more interesting RP-wise.
>scrawny subpar damage dealer
literally impossible to hit dex tank that can easily solo every fight
>Enemy rolls nat20
>KC ded
>Which level are they available?
13 and 21
Playing smutmod, is it normal for the shadows to be like this? Weird feet too
Probably not. EE or original?
That's how more than 1 lightsource works.
Since this is the closest NWN thread I could find, I'm trying out A Dance With Rogues and I can't figure out how to put on shoes or panties. I can equip my kitchen maid dress, but the panties and shoes won't fit into any clothing spots. They're listed as accessories, but how do you equip them?
go to the drawer in your room in the bearpit and add it to the outfit you're wearing
anyone playing that star wars server? It's pretty neat
There were capture the flag servers back in the day. D&D CTF fricking blew my mind
There were also weird AoS-style maps.
What about those coomer modules like gladiatrix are they worth it?
Probably not.
I found Gladiatrix way inferior to Adwr. Been many years so I don't recall much, but areas had worse design, and the plot was really bad. The smut was bad too, I remembered cringing many times but never getting turned on
Yeah its to be expected.
Adwr is great though, irrespective of smut
What
said. Gladiatrix kinda read like a fantasy version of Jersey Shore. You join this super secret resistance group but it kinda feels more like "10 super hot models get locked into a house for a week, what will happen?" intermixed with episodes of "go do this task" during which you meet other superhot people on the way and have one night stands and your constantly laugh at the sexy escapades of your super sexy and horny roommates. Had a couple scenes I actually found hot, mainly the ones that felt a bit more fitting of a fantasy story, but still. And the plot and action beyond coomer parts was really nothing worth writing about, maybe a decent spin here or there for a sidequest but not worth playing for.
Lilura1 said swordflight is really good, has anyone else played it or is it more of his enormous autism?
Anyways, reccomend good modules to try out, please.
Swordflight is still incomplete.
If he said that it's good it probably is. I really like his taste in RPGs
A true autistic RPG connoisseur
His NWN builds are a complete joke. It's just a useless waste of space neet that has too much time on his hands to blog about his useless opinions and everyone reading it is either too bored or even more useless themselves to put in that little amount of effort either. Just because you write a blog doesn't automatically make what you have to say important, valuable or correct. The blind leading the deaf.
yes. almraiven and its sequel are better though
Someone rank the modules in EE (not the ones you can buy). I only ever played the first module and then a ton of custom multiplayer modules.
The plot had some issues.
>There's an evil plague
>Only you can get the 4 items in this city to cure it
>Oh no the cultists who were helping you are causing the plague
>Defeat cultist leader
>Thanks for curing the plague but we have to execute this guy for being negligent
>No the fact that you fixed everything doesn't change that people are still angry for some reason
>That guy's lover tries to get revenge on the city by joining the cultists that tricked him
>The villains want the Words of Power.
>You prevent the villains from getting all the Words of Power by getting them all and not destroying them.
>User Words of Power to meet the evil lizard the villains were trying to free, rather than just seal her away forever because if you lose she can escape and destroy the whole city.
>No the fact that you fixed everything doesn't change that people are still angry for some reason
They are angry at the ruling class of Neverwinter for fricking them over. Kek what a brainlet
Even though they all get the cure. I guess we know who the real brainlet is.
You are acting like a mob was ever reasonable.
>Mob: we want the cure
>One moment
>Here you go
>Mob: we want someone to die for this slight delay even though we were all cured and none of us can name any problems that were caused by this delay.
Brainlet: 10/10 writing.
This exact thing happened with the belgium riots and basically around the world during the apex of the pandemic with people demanding accountability. It's irrelevant if the vaccine works or not, people rebelled because of multiple other factors. A mob has no logical course of action or thought. When you're angry you're not making logical decisions.
They wanted revenge, you absolute moron. Their loved ones died, the city was ravished and the economy went to shit. Someone had to pay and scapegoat had to be found.
>we were all cured
Yes you know, aside from the literal piles of bodies left behind by the plague, their family might have a complaint. And those left behind by the chaos created by it, be it the prison break in the harbour, the zombies in the poorgay zone, the warzone between the temple of Tyr and Blacklake and I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting something else too.
Main campaign is boring as sin but expansions are really fun. Never touched modules either.
Unironically it just looked too ugly, even for back then during the early 3d tech.
Else it was easily on par with any other RPG, no matter what pretentious BS you see here sold as facts.
>uncontrollable companions
>or rather, only one companion
>entire gameplay is just watching your character autoattack
>story is some utter cringe starting in fricking "hero academy"
>atrocious UI
>insanely ugly
This "game" plays itself on it's own. Snoy moviegames have more gameplay than this turd. What a fricking irredeemable garbage
>it's bad because it's not BG
>it's bad because I don't like it!
yawn
It's bad because it doesn't have gameplay. And story. Or even graphics. Or roleplaying
>roleplaying
yes it does
>graphics
are you suggesting it's a text adventure? kek what a moron
And so on and so forth. This is how moronic nwn haters are.
Main campaign wasn't that bad. Better than both PoEs and Kingmaker (Kingmaker was ripped straight from NWN too it feels like). There were plots and twists and good encounters.
The main problem is that it's a single character game, which as far as DnD shit goes is just gimped. Having said that, it's got more active players today than all Obsidian and infinity engine games combined.
The current active player count for NWN private servers is 54k. The all Time peak for Pillars of Eternity is 42k. NWN is the most successful DnD inspired game of all time.
>The current active player count for NWN private servers is 54k
I dont believe you.
https://steamdb.info/app/704450/graphs/
>609 players right now
>concurrent players
>2,410 all-time peak 2 years ago
And that is to say that not all of them play multiplayer. This just goes to show that not every single NWN player is a degenerate ERPer homosexual despite what this shithole will lead you to believe.
I don't give a frick about obsidishit or poe but the audacity of autistic trash biowaste on this website or on reddit or anywhere else to unironically not only shit on singleplayer modules like the OC and others but to proudly exclaim that it is an exclusively multiplayer game to rationalize and justify their twisted and sick mentally ill fetishism.
You are mentally sick. Your RP garbage is sick and disgusting and you will never normalize it no matter how many posts you make. have a nice day.
Isn't that a good number for a 20 year old game?
Of course but that doesn't change the point. If you check the community hub as well you can see that multiplayer threads are in the minority. Out of the 300 recent topics there's only about a third of it regarding multiplayer, servers or anything of the sort. If you go to the subreddit you can see there are containment threads for RP and everyone else is either memeing, playing some SP module or just posting fanart.
This game has a lot to offer but for some fricking reason you autists want to pretend it's only ERPing with other degenerates. I'll tell you the reason, so you don't feel alone in your misery and guilty about it.
The game is sold separately on Beamdog and GOG.
Don't believe even a third waste their time with the steam version.
Next level cope.
Nice try but gog discussion boards share just as many threads about multiplayer as on steam. You are a pathetic, sad, twisted up inside ERPer and it will never be normalized.
>(Kingmaker was ripped straight from NWN too it feels like)
??????????????????????
The Diamond edition of NWN comes with the Kingmaker premium module.
>The Diamond edition of NWN comes with the Kingmaker premium module.
Brainlet.
Pathfinder Kangmaker=/= NWN Kangmaker.
>Better than both PoEs and Kingmaker
0 IQ opinion
because its shit.
Is Prisoners of the Mist worth getting into? The persistent worlds really appeal to me as an RP focused MMO type game experience.
Not really. The old pws don't really focus on rp except for some pretentious lip service. PotM is the most pretentious of them all and the server admin even made a short essay about rp versus true rp using a made up definition that nobody else uses. This attitude spreads to the rest of the module and management including requiring applications for character options that is just complete bullshit. It's known as one of the servers that suffers most from dm favoritism so good luck getting anywhere.
The setting design is terrible and inconsistent with the source material and even how people approach horror. The low end of difficulty is merely scaled up artificially with rewards scaled down artificially. This leads to degenerative gameplay loops that focus on excessive grinding and repeated spamming of dungeons in large squads of players. It's a high magic server that calls itself low magic because magic is the primary commodity but they just added penalties and capped the max bonuses. This does not create low magic gameplay, it just shifts the average. So if a roll is 5-25 instead of 10-30 what are you really doing?
It's telling that a lot of non English speaking people play there. They just grind it out and don't rp except random crap to get the chat exp. The real rpers there are one-liner *nods* types. Along with Arelith it was heavily promoted by the company.
I only disagree with one point. Excessive grinding is enjoyable to plenty of people, maybe not in this case or for this service but it is not "degenerate". I personally grind dungeons and other modules because it helps me meditate and plan on issues in my work, for example.
Nobody said excessive grinding isn't enjoyable but it isn't good for rp and stimulates a different kind of experience. For the best rp experience you want the characters to go through the dungeon once, when necessary, and after preparation. Going to the dungeon is an ordeal. Grinding focuses on a different experience of keeping busy on mastered content. Have someone pull the monsters from the whole floor, slap down a few aoes, watch them all tick to death, rinse, repeat. This kind of gameplay is completely degenerate. You are also stating the symptoms of it being completely degenerate gameplay. At the point that you are doing it you are meditating or off thinking about your own life troubles. You are no longer mentally present as the character you are playing. This kind of gameplay cannot reinforce horror rp or any kind of serious rp. It can be fun in a way but it works against what they claim the server focuses on.
Do not be afraid to say that you sometimes enjoy trash. Everybody enjoys trash at some point, junkfood, trashy movies, trashy grindy games. But don't call your McDonalds drive-through like French cuisine or some shit, because it's not.
Lmao just go to Port bro, like pretend to be french lol
The world would be a better place if Arelith and PotM relabeled themselves as Action/RP and everyone knows it.
It isn't obscure and it did better than Arcanum ever could have hoped for. There are some reasons to like Arcanum but a lot of it has poor execution, very outdated tech when it came out, and some cringe stuff that probably appeals to pol. Besides that NWN has nothing to do with Obsidian. It was made by Trent Oster and his team from BioWare, and then revamped some of the engine at Beamdog also led by Trent Oster. Any time some company adds creation tools people ask will it be like NWN? They don't ask will it be like Arcanum or even Baldur's Gate? The power of NWN was in the tools, it was advertised for the tools, it was created for the tools to be easy for people to use. Across all versions of NWN and all ways of using it there are probably thousands of peak concurrent players every night and tens of thousands of individual players every day. Arcanum has maybe 100 tops.
NWN discussions usually go one of several ways. Most of the community has no interest in discussing the OC because the focus was always adventure creation. So you have groups that talk about the OC, groups that talk about single player mods, groups that talk about persistent worlds, and like one or two anons that talk about modding. I am more interested in the later two and when I see an NWN thread I will usually act like it's a thread for another game I don't play if it's about the OC. If it's about persistent worlds then it's either drama or it takes too long to make something new compared to the lifespan of a thread. Besides that there are other places to discuss things with modders that actually know anything. Most anons aren't helpful in designing new stuff.
In short the barrier to entry for the real stuff in NWN requires a time investment and there are already better places to ask questions. The occasional pw drama can be funny though.
>Across all versions of NWN and all ways of using it there are probably thousands of peak concurrent players every night and tens of thousands of individual players every day. Arcanum has maybe 100 tops
You are actually delusional if you believe that. Not a single statistic backs that up.
What are you talking about? Steam only represents a portion of players and that's already over a thousand peak concurrent daily. Not knowing and being skeptical is one thing but calling people delusional when you don't know is what I expect from anons like you. Dumbass.
>Rogue/Fighter/Ranger
The paradigm shift was the ability to make good mods that are playable online. The online scene is dead, sadly. And the built in content was shit compared to nwn2 where mask of the betrayer was an actual mindfrick and even the original campaign, while not an inspired work of story telling was still one if the most comfy experiences in gaming. To this day, I still sometimes play it when work and family drama overlap cause it just makes me feel like life is good.
Unfortunately the engine for NWN2 was a huge clusterfrick and they couldn't deliver on all their promises. They had a huge hiring drive back then and went over budget despite using a ton of proprietary middleware that cucked the modding community. The areas were supposed to only have a slightly larger data footprint than NWN did which was fine because we had better internet speeds, but they fricked that one up good. Even today on a good system there is a lot left to be desired with the performance and the graphics you get for it. Not to mention you need a 3rd party hack to fix stuttering movement and that only alleviates timing problems but doesn't make the animations not jank as all hell. NWN has this nice character customization capability that was easily extendable, instead they got their intern hooked on MAYA to make a handful of full body meshes and call it a day for customization.
Oh, but I guess the story was better, that's something right?
NWN online pulls about a thousand across all servers, NWN2 is stuck at around 100. Even before the enhanced edition it was like 400 and 150. Now that Embracer group bought Beamdog you can probably bet that NWN is on permanent maintenance mode with no more significant updates. It's not dead but it's only going to get worse.
This is why RPs are absolutely mentally unstable and completely insane.
why is there a gay here bringing up RP and obsessing about it?
Why do wizards and sorcerers suck hard wiener in this game?
>go said classes
>only a few spell slots
>after you use your spells you can't do ANYTHING
>spells do literally no damage
Then I make any class that has melee or ranged physical
>damage left and right consistently
>never have to worry about spells running out and being useless like sorcerer and wizard
For what fricking purpose
1. NWN1 allows you to rest after every fight, if you wish to restore all spell slots and blast out of your ass again. Your later spells get very strong, or even outright broken.
2. You have a familiar (a few of them are legitimately good in combat), melee companions and summons, and you can buff them with pretty good shit.
3. You can use wands, scrolls and magic staves on low levels. Those things are especially underrated - I'm playing Aielund Saga as a melee bard now, but turning into a high AC fortress and blasting especially strong enemies with a Magic Missile staff was a very viable tactic so far.
If you want a gish who can do everything, play cleric - both caster and melee builds are good at both things. if you want a caster with a very easy early game, play druid with a bear or boar pet.
Not that anon but Wizards are extremely tedious.
1. You have to exit the area, without haste that takes a long time. Even with haste it still creates unnecessary pause in the flow.
2. Familiar are great for trash encounters but even familiars cannot deal with mid to end level basic enemies that any good module loves to throw at you. They are only extremely effective early game and at best slightly useful mid game. Also the more summons you have the worse AI pathing gets. Have you ever played a druid with multiple summoned creatures and as yourself a shapeshifter? Creature pathing is abysmal in this game.
3.This is a great point that you are 100% correct on. A lot of beginners discount the usefulness of these items, especially early game.
Seconding on the cleric tip too, cleric can do basically anything and is the perfect beginner friendly starter class for any module.
>Have you ever played a druid with multiple summoned creatures
Why yes, I played Swordflight as a summoner/CC druid. It works pretty well, though you have to sustain your party by bandaging their asses in combat.
Entering/exiting any room is clunky for each non-humanoid creature and often stunlocks them in animation back and forth. Positioning is completely impossible. You are essentially reliant on yoru summons as glorified meatshields while you outdps the encounter. There is no real tactic, complexity or intelligence in it, you basically bum rush every room with your zoo and the first few hours it's fun and ridiculous but eventually you get tired of getting your familiars or summons stuck inbetween the doors with the diceroll timings rendering your exit or entry impossible for quite some time(which is crucial) despite callout commands to Follow You or anything else of the sort.
In reality, I incapacitated encounters by using the most effective combination of various CC spells, while my buffed gigabear killed everything. Vanilla commands work fairly well if you bind them to F1-F3 to make controlling your party as smooth as vanilla-possible, and Swordflight implements a Horn of Making Your Party Actually Do What You Want.
Though Balkoth's Minion Control (which is implemented in Aielund Saga) is the best solution bar none. You can almost flawlessly control your whole party with a single button.
These passed me by completely. Thanks Anon, I will play them as druid immediately.
Actually, it seems EE also added this shit:
A bit clunky, but it looks fairly precise.
>can't rest when there are enemies nearby
>can't rest when there are enemies nearby
>can't rest when there are enemies nearby
>can't rest when there are enemies nearby
>can't rest when there are enemies nearby
>can't rest when there are enemies nearby
In D&D the same mechanics apply to every character. So a wizard can do anything but your wizard can't do anything, apparently. Not only that but unlike real D&D you don't need to wait a day and rest for 8 hours, you can rest after every fight without any risks. You just suck at the game and are probably too used to middling casters like in arpgs and mmos.
>You cannot rest so quickly after exerting yourself.
>You cannot rest while there are enemies nearby.
Enemy rest aggro is incredibly backwards, you can be across the map and it still registers.
Holy cow anon, are you an actual zoomer?
Yoru argument being? Some modules have extremely large areas and it doesn't matter if you are on one end or another, this isn't an issue with patience if that's what you're making fun of. It's pointless redundant to the flow of the game. You should be able to rest at least in a room adjacent to the one that you have cleared, bar none. If anything there should be mechanics that interrupt rest instead of a simple, pointless text prompt.
If the map is 2 or 3 tiles big yeah. Also using the exerting yourself mechanic to back up your claim just means you have ADHD. You might as well say that not being able to rest mid combat is backwards game design.
>being effective is ADHD
Once the fight is done there is nothing more efficient than resting immediately since there are more enemies ahead. What do you think people did during war after a skirmish, immediately go and loot the bodies or take a breather?
Your arguments are awful and you're really grasping for straws. This isn't a very good troll attempt so on the chance that it's not a troll then maybe this is just not the kind of game for you? It was designed for people that would never type the things you're typing now because the argument would not make sense to them.
Usually the morons complain that casters are astronomically more powerful than everyone else. We don't get a lot like you, it's a rare occasion a special kind of moron show up.
Wizard is the most powerful metagaming class. If you know the encounter fully, the resists, the enemy count, their positioning then you know which spells to use to breeze through it. For people that are noobs and just start out of course they won't know or understand what to do. For example in the OC most players don't even know that you have to cast magic shield on yourself to survive the Sorcerer in the Prologue on the harder difficulty, because most don't even play the hardest difficulty and most don't even know the encounters to begin with. Of course these players would be the first to complain.
I don't see your argument whatsoever, only personal attacks. Resting after a fight is the most efficient and proper use of your class. I've played p&p since early 2000 when encounters aren't videogamey at all and that is exactly the course of action in pen and paper 9 times out 10. In tabletop you would rarely allow yourself to not rest after an encounter that takes out all of your spells, you are probably a generic fighter or duelist or something stupid like that where all you want is to go and keep going, up until you die in a stupid fashion because you don't have even your basic cantrips. And you call me a zoomer.
In fact situations such as these was the reason why NWN was hated by tabletop players at the time. It took mechanics, established ways of handling a class and not only simplified but also changed it fundamentally to suit the videogame. That's perfectly ok I like NWN for what it is but it is important to state and remember one crucial aspect when you are playing. What class am I playing? What are my strengths and weaknesses? As a wizard your primary concern, always, are your spells. All of your spells. The type. The amount. The efficiency of your party always comes second. There should never be an instance when you are entering a room unprepared or without all of the necessary spells your class offers. This is a consequence of the videogame philosophy, the game lends itself with it's lower difficult to allow you no punishment over such an action. It seems to me instead, that with a philosophy in mind like that your time would be better spent playing a diabloclone or like instead. For a wizard, planning and careful consideration is a priority. Your spells are the number 1 priority. Nothing else.
>on the harder difficulty, because most don't even play the hardest difficulty
NWN1 is the game where I would recommend literally anyone to play on core DnD rules. There is no reason to suffer through double damage without full party control.
I agree. At the same time I also highly recommend you clear it nodeath at least once. Even as a cleric on Very Difficult it is, in fact very difficult with some HOTU encounters.
Nobody is using personal attacks against you. It's just that you might as well be going to a ball game and saying balls suck and the game is bad. Like don't play, the world will go on without you, people will understand and play games like this without your approval. There is no point in engaging further with the stuff you have posted.
You are not discussing the game, therefore there's nothing to engage in with you. This is a NWN thread filled with an insurmountable amount of bait and discussion that has nothing to do with it. Coming into it I knew there would be some kind of poor quality response like this but I still wanted to bring some level of excellence and grace in your boring dull and backwards experiences. People like you cannot even imagine something like challenging yourself or overcoming adversity of any kind, why would you think similarly in a videogame. Of course you would immediately default to personal attacks and claim that what I said was bait, just because I made 1 greentext in jest. Because it's widely accepted as a flawed mechanic from a game that's 2 decades old and yet you took it upon yourself to feign ignorance and pretend as if it doesn't matter. Of course it doesn't matter because you all play on lower difficulties and faceroll the game with premade builds and never once stop to think or have any critical awareness of any kind. To you, it's not efficient to rest after an encounter, it's a sign of attention deficit. How poor your lives are, it wouldn't surprise me that you consume media where others tell you what to think about virtually anything as well.
I'm not going to play your tune. Someone with experience and skill tells you more information that you could possibly have about a subject matter and a game mechanic, show some respect and dignity at least as a small shred of quality in this god forsaken shithole. Play a wizard on the hardest difficulty, don't think or select your spells, don't investigate the encounters, don't rest and replenish your spells efficiently, don't do anything at all and let's see how you manage. You wouldn't last 1 roll in tabletop I'll tell you that.
>Play a wizard on the hardest difficulty, don't think or select your spells, don't investigate the encounters, don't rest and replenish your spells efficiently, don't do anything at all and let's see how you manage. You wouldn't last 1 roll in tabletop I'll tell you that.
This is a you problem. How is the fact that you don't know how to play the game a sign of skill and information that others don't have? I don't think anyone will respect you for that.
>play the OC to prove something to one random anon
You can't wait forever on that one. How about you live life thinking nobody can play casters unless the can immediately rest after every encounter. It wont change anything. You can continue to suck and everyone else will be unaffected. See, everyone wins.
>This is a you problem.
No. That is a problem forwarded by the difficulty of the game. I have yet to have seen any one of you prove otherwise. I would stream it myself if I didn't have a full time job. Show me your example, I am completely open minded to see you play the game on higher difficulty as a wizard, maybe I am wrong and bad or whatever and you don't need to do anything. Show me.
That is irrelevant. You do not move an inch if you wizard does not have his spells. This is not debatable. Any party that purposefully ignores this vital aspect should not have a wizard in their party(foolish) or take him for pointless encounters to begin with. I spent the past posts talking about nothing but the mechanics. Replenish your spells and use them accordingly before the encounter is even happening. What part of that you don't understand?
>You do not move an inch if you wizard does not have his spells. This is not debatable. Any party that purposefully ignores this vital aspect should not have a wizard in their party
Nobody plays pnp or any crpg like that you dipshit. Except you I suppose.
Go play Diablo or something idk man.
That's exactly what I've recommended to you and those like you, who are neither efficient nor critical in all of their actions. Resting after an encounter is crucial for a wizard, that is it.
I didn't make that first post.
This is obviously a massive waste of time. None of you are interested in anything other than outbaiting each other for attention and talking about tertiary meaningless garbage than actualyl
1. Playing the game
2. Talking about the game
3. Passing the game on higher difficulties
Learn the class you are playing before speaking about it. You do not provide examples of your ways of playing it and you are not interested in even entertaining the idea that some of the mechanics of NWN do not reflect tabletop to begin with. It's a massive shitshow and letdown this entire thread and no amount of grace or excellence will ever be enough to soothe your poor experience no matter how much you try. Now I'd rather spend my time better playing the modules with a druid so it can wash away the stench off this shithole.
Nobody wants to play with 5e homosexuals that just want to instantly gratify themselves non-stop, like you. If your wizard doesn't have his spells you do not risk a serious encounter. The class lends itself to some of the most powerful and game changing mechanical efficacy and it should be played with extreme precision, planning and efficiency. I cannot believe this has to be even stated. Absolute imbecile. Frick this thread, Christ.
You are seriously confused. If you could understand for a moment that you are what you claim other people are right now. If this isn't supposed to be some kind of bait then I am actually honestly worried for you. Please get help.
As for the mechanics you're obviously completely wrong about everything. To such a great degree that anyone would need to explain the basics to you. You don't rest after every encounter in D&D, something like that was introduced for 5e, which makes it more strange that you think other people play 5e and not you. The Diablo comment is also strange because other people are saying spread your resources and you're wanting to replenish after every encounter, which is more like Diablo which doesn't emphasize managing character resources like D&D does.
Basically everything you're saying is like you've come from a bizarro world where everything is opposite. So if this is legit then you must have mental problems. If you're just going to keep on ranting insanely like this then I'm not going to keep on encouraging you or giving you a reason to respond.
What mechanics are wrong? Wrong from your casual perspective where you don't have to think or have any shred of critical analysis of any kind.
If you do not use the majority of your spellbook for difficult encounters, then you are not efficient and need to re-inspect your spell choices. Almost every encounter on Hard+ is difficult. The OC is especially guilty of this, throwing hordes of enemies at you round with resists and different checks. All of this has to be accounted for, which you do not. Because you are a casual moron whose only real achievement is baiting on the internet.
If you do not need to use the majority of your spellbook then you shouldn't even use it to begin with, in fact a Wizard should not even be in an encounter that doesn't warrant the class to begin with. Your familiar or party members are required to deal with that level of encounter. That's why I will never play with morons like you, that just go and don't think about anything. The perfect representation of 5e, a reflection of the game for the perfect audience of low skilled low attention span hobbyists.
You fundamentally do not understand the class, it's strengths, weaknesses or how to even play it. neither pen&paper nor in NWN. You start the game, enter an encounter, fling your low level spells like Magic Missile, Jolt and then sit there wondering why are you not efficient? So you lower the difficulty and tell yourself a story about how the game is bad and then with a pat on the back you go forward from one encounter to the next never even grasping the full range of what the class offers. Not one of you has given forth one example where you can play the class of Wizard on the harder difficulties and be an incompetent idiot. Instead, you sit in threads such as these and posture yourself about a class that you barely know anything about just to increase what little shred of self-esteem that you don't even have. I outright refuse to interact with you any longer. Goodbye.
You're not good at the game let alone playing a wizard. Nobody wants your advice.
After a fight you don't go to sleep for 8 hours in the trench while the fighting is still going on around you. It's obvious that you never actually played pnp and have no common sense about this stuff.
Man, you are projecting hard.
Zero argument. In war and after a fight you get any chance for rest that you can get. That's how you survive. Play some wargames or tabletop before saying a single word again, faux pedantic manchild. Sit and bait more posts in this pathetic thread about NWN that nobody wants to discuss or talk about the subject even and knows about it even less. Out of both of us, you are the one constantly trying to posture into meaningless diatribes when you don't even understand how the class you're talking about works. Try something above Normal on your next playthrough for starters.
In table top it's 8 hours to replenish spells during a 24 hour day. You say others don't have an argument but I have yet to read anything you posted that shows you have any basic understanding of the rules. How about you start talking about the actual mechanics instead of padding your replies with unrelated crap.
>I've played p&p since early 2000 when encounters aren't videogamey at all
I played 3e in 2001 or 2002 at the latest, no splatbooks, just the game itself. It was always videogamey.
I never had a problem with spell management or using my character effectively. Most people that played table top didn't either. Stop making broad general statements that are specific to a few people and not general.
Like shit they even buffed a lot of the spells.
That's not what was said or what the argument was. Stop making callouts without quoting anyone, coward schizoposter. You are lowering the quality of our board and contribute nothing.
A game mechanic was put under question and it was clarified. Let's see your playthrough on Hard or Very Difficult where you effectively clear the entire game as a Wizard without being effective. No, really I will watch the entire thing if you can back it up. Except that you don't play Wizard and you probably barely even play the game on anything other than Easy or Normal. Every spell counts.
I just finished the original campaign for the first time after owning this game for over fifteen years.
What a load of shit that was. Not Bioware's worst but it's definitely up there.
yeah people recommend the expansions/player modules over the oc for a reason. the oc was more of a technical showcase and it shows.
>the oc was more of a technical showcase
That's history revisionism. It wasn't, people worked hard to bring a dream to reality, you will never be able to take that away with this type of gaslighting. Looking up most of the reviews from 2002 prove that "the reaction to the OC was negative" narrative is largely a contemporary sentiment. And why shouldn't it be? Look at where Neverwinter is now compared to 2002. It makes perfect sense to think that but to say that the OC was a tech demo that is quite absurd. Chances are you weren't even alive back then.
Not that anon but it was always a you make your own adventures product. They were talking about portals too and endless worlds of adventure. The original back of the box highlights this too. Trent Oster the guy that dreamed it up says he was making D&D in a box, you play one character, you play like it's D&D with friends. The OC was always a tech demo and to satisfy expectations with the tagline that it's a great game for everyone. The OC was never the focus though. Saying it was is what is revisionist.
People talked about HotU a lot when it came out. A lot more people even talked about the valsharess on RP persistent worlds, much more than Aribeth. Almost everyone on the multiplayer scene trashed the OC though, and it didn't get much praise from modders either. Stop trying to revise history you dumb ass east European. Nobody cares how they marketed whatever bootleg copy you had over there.
>Marketing gimmick = Design philosophy
The game offered a toolset and was marketed as a D&D companion in 3d form in all of it's marketing but that doesn't discount the effort they have accomplished with the story, setting and narrative which was -always- the main focus of the entire team. This is a game made by BIOWARE.
He was also not the only person that worked on the game and even he is on record saying:
>“Baldur’s Gate was the discrete, party-based adventure, and Neverwinter was about running your D&D character.”
>"Yes, you were an elf, but what /kind/ of elf? If you wanted to be a fighter, did that mean you were a gladiator, a pirate, or a katana master? It granted options similar to those you had on the tabletop."
Trent was literally the only person in the entire team that wanted the focus to be multiplayer over everything else.
>"I was a man on a mission with Neverwinter, I was so on fire with the idea,” he says. “There were people who questioned whether it was a smart thing to do, and I said, ‘Of course it’s a smart thing to do. It’ll be the best thing ever’.”"
He is also solely responsible for all the flaws in the OC
>"The toolset and multiplayer became the focus of Neverwinter Nights’ development, which meant the story campaign suffered. Its elegant planned plot was chopped up into chapters and hubs in the last three months before release."
It was a tech demo to Trent and his vision. The rest of the team wanted to make a bioware dnd game. I lived through those times. I read these reviews, played the modules off of IGN and breathed it non-stop. To call the game a tech demo that's just too much, get the hell out of here you complete garbage autist.
>This is a game made by BIOWARE.
This is how I know there is something strange with your opinion. You're retroactively applying what you think it was like back then based on their eventual reputation. You don't understand that they sold out, but NWN was made by Shattered Steel BioWare not Mass Effect BioWare. The rest of your claims are just made up and weird. Don't try to be so hardcore that you make up nonsense. Even if you were new but modded you would see where it's more tutorial like for modders than the other games.
I'm probably the oldest person in this thread and the first time I ever encountered more than one person that praised the OC in a year was since Beamdog released a new version. Every time it's always some Slavs or Russians. Maybe there was an amazing Russian translation, who the frick knows.
Anyway keep arguing or whatever. Doesn't change history.
I'm swiss you stupid mutt mongoloid. I've bought the disc when I was 13 in march of 2003. That is after the second re-release in Switzerland with patches and a manual for the aurora toolset. If you keep on talking shit I am going to spend the entire day tomorrow to find the box in my cellar and take a literal shit down your mouth you fricking dishonest homosexual.
Neverwinter nights was made by a passionate team that wanted to bring D&D into 3D space, it was made by the entire studio in collaboration with most of the assets worked by SS. It was never a tech demo. Shut the frick up. Multiplayer was a design philosophy spearheaded by one man. The moment you even mentioned Trent Oster you've outed yourself immediately and there can be absolutely no discussion or understanding between us. NWN is a game that will always be torn in half between what it is and what one man and his sycophants wanted it to be. Yours "won" because a shareholder decided to take a stupid risk that still hasn't paid off. Look at NWN, you have to cope with claims such as " NWN multiplayer has thousands of players!". This is beyond pathetic and I have no words. Amazing vision. Congratulations on your marketing. Great job. Go sit in your PW nightmare forever.
Close enough to say I called it. Your ESL ass wasn't able to comprehend shit. Into the trash with your opinions.
>swiss = east european
Great education dumbass. Frick off to your shitstain server and shut the frick up about the OC. There, simple enough to understand even for a subhummy mutt like you.
Close enough means that the exact details don't need to be the same. That lesson is free. Another free tip is that cussing and insulting people doesn't make your incorrect posts true. You're still wrong and not you just seem like an angry butthole that is wrong and trying to pretend that you're old school. The thread is worse for every post you've made.
Your input is insulting. I don't come into your house to tell you how bad your furniture is even though we might share the same neighborhood. You are so detached from basic common sense and reality it's unreal that there is any level of posturing in you left, typical mutt mentality of an ignorant person.
You couldn't coach yourself into a better state of existence, that's why you sit on degenerate PW powertripping servers to flex your garbage personality that you cannot get anywhere else and now that this amazing vision that went nowhere is literally falling apart in virtually the entire NWN multiplayer component so of course you've got no other choice but to antagonize the only people that want NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU in a literal tibetan kombucha fermenting board online, anonymously. You are below trash do you understand? That is why I'm cussing and insulting you. I'm sick of your commentary. The only reason why this thread is worse is because YOU have -nothing else to do or talk about- besides baiting attention by shitting on things you don't even fricking enjoy. Reality check dumbass. This thread and game is a complete failure because of one man that split the community and the game from the start. People that play the OC don't give a shit about you or your garbage lives, your servers or anything you engage in. So do not engage with us, it's that simple. Now shut the frick up and let this thread die if you have NOTHING else to talk about which surprise, wow, you don't.
Your input is not requested, needed or wanted. Develop a better experience for yourselves with your amazing vision along with Trent, beamdog and whatever other trannoid echo chamber you want to smear yourself with. Those that simply enjoy and play this game for it's OC, the SP modules and everything else that's not your degeneracy want NOTHING to do with you.
>I actually feel sorry for you.
I don't even THINK about you. I pretend you DO NOT EVEN EXIST when I play the game.
>I pretend you DO NOT EVEN EXIST when I play the game.
And judging by the multiplayer numbers in 2022 this is not a far cry from reality. I have no words at all that in order to keep the thread alive you have NOTHING to talk about besides antagonizing the OC.NOTHING AT ALL. This speaks volumes about the state of your amazing vision for this game.
It is beyond shocking that this sentence is said with enthusiasm. Your ship is sinking and you just want to drag everyone along with you. Well frick that and frick you. NWN is a great game, it brought so much joy and positive experience since release both from the OC to all the overwhelming module work that was done afterwards. That was the original vision and design philosophy of the game.
It's not a surprise that a literal MMO addict, such as yourselves, has completely failed to bring his vision to life and it shows both in the numbers and the quality of people engaging in any part of the multiplayer component.
Go ahead, keep baiting and antagonizing. It's literally the only thing you pathetic wretches have left of this community. Sitting here and decaying, like your precious servers endless with chaos and strife, drama and bullshit. A community filled with absolute worthless individuals whose only pleasure in life is taking something good and debasing it to their own low level. Congratulations on your vision.
Are you the same guy that was spazzing out earlier?
Jesus christ dude, please leave the thread.
Why are you even arguing when you've already conceded that the director of the project saw the single player campaign as a lesser part of full product? He called the shots, the game that released clearly shows that. Nobody except you and the dipshits who put it together ever cared about it.
But only the director, what the frick does he know right?
This schizo is probably the same schizo as before. We should all probably ignore him.
You're the ones that started talking shit. From actually shitting on the OC to calling it a tech demo to basically doing everything to discredit and devalue it's existence in order to somehow elevate not only your disgusting lives but somehow the literal failing apart multiplayer component of NWN which in 2022 is literally falling apart. It's beyond garbage, endless garbage, drama and other bullshit.
Is this the great vision of the great Trent Oster? Fricking hell have a nice day already. What a bunch of useless degenerate gremlins you are.
It's so funny how YOU are the ones shaking the boat by openly criticising the vanilla game while people that actually play and enjoy the OC don't even say a word about the multiplayer at all. Nobody asked YOU for your opinion on the OC, at all. Nobody cares about YOUR input. Go back to your shitholes and jerk yourselves off forever. It's so simple. Don't talk shit it's that simple. If you don't like the OC ok cool, go and smear yourself with whatever poison pleasures you and frick off.
You don't understand what you're talking about. Probably in part because you're a schizo and in part because you barely understand the language. It was never popular, it was a tutorial, you're a pompous ass that just b***hes and moans.
It is extremely simple and straightforward. Stop talking about the OC. Stop talking about things you do not enjoy. It's funny how there's NO TALK about anything PW related. AT ALL. Where's this amazing vision of Trent ???
You are all beyond pathetic, really. Not just because you spend your lives on this garbage but because you've numbed your brains so much that you need to debase and devalue something for others just to feel anything at this point.
How are other people pathetic when you're having a terror tantrum because people posted about the OC in a way you didn't like? I actually feel sorry for you.
Begone lilura1, leave this place.
Also
>Almost everyone on the multiplayer scene trashed the OC
>Degenerates echochambering their own filth
Wow what a surprise. I've been through PW since 2006. Look at the absolute state of most servers today. Favoritism. Drama. Less and less player driven content. No solid team direction. No fair pvp system, literally shitflinging over and over. FRSF, ALFA, RAVENLOFT, even ARELITH just to name a few are all guilty of this. The only thing these servers can boast about is heavy and complex scripting or autismally technical content. There is no sense of community anymore, there is only filth and degeneracy, cliques of echochambers and power abuse.
Looking at the OC especially it seems like such an opposite by comparison that this is exactly the thing that I was thinking of when I saw the toolset for the first time 2 decades ago when you couldn't even manage anything without looking up scripting manuals online. This is exactly why the team at bioware didn't want to listen to fricking Trent and his stupid garbage but because he was a trust fundy and owned equity in the company they had no choice. He was always an mmo addict, with thousands of hours of everquest that polluted his mind to create this abomination. The golden age of PW is gone, it genuinely had a chance but now it's absolute shit. That is why so many people today go back to the OC and singleplayer driven modules from a decade ago and more instead. That's why there's so much discussion about it more than anything any server has to offer besides DRAMA. People like you say things like these because you can't come to terms with reality and why should you? You literally engage in fantasy with others and breathe lies on the daily.
Frick off lilura1, go post on your blog about it.
I never got why people say the vanilla campaign is shit.
I mean, I wouldn't replay it, but it was fun the first time.
Is this another lilura1 episode?
I laughed so hard when Lilura got driven from RPGcodex.
Literally a dying blog too, it doesn't even have top ranking when searched for despite the disgusting search engine optimization
The schizo really is lilura1 isn't he? Frick.
don't reply to me, 02
Don't talk about things that happened when you haven't even stopped wearing diapers yet.
you're mentally ill, I don't want a schizo replying to me. have a nice day.
>purposefully enter a thread of thing I don't like to proclaim how much I don't like it
>I enjoy different things so much that I have NOTHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT but the former
Hello mental illness. Enjoy your stay.
Ah yes, the dream of telling the story of finding the Waterdhavian creatures...
Cleric is just so much fun on NWN tier 0 class just crush everything.
I liked the OC. I've beaten it at least 4 times I play at 1.5 speed though with cheat engine.
Just get haste boots moron
Usually I have UMD for robes of the darkmoon.
There are loads of permhaste items on OC.
Also one attack every six seconds is a bit of a slog at the start of the game.
have a nice day 12
>calls others mentally ill
>schizoposts
Develop a brain, dog
the oc is shit and you have shit taste, autist.
shadows/hordes are better than the oc
the premium modules are better than the oc
player made modules are better than the oc
the oc is a tech demo
have a nice day 20. your mother would thank you for not leeching off of her any more.
I'm in my thirties, I have a job and pay for all of my shit. I even bought this game 19 years ago as a 13 year old before any of the diamond edition or beamdog trannoid garbage. Literally shut the frick up schizoautist. It wouldn't surprise me if you projecting piece of biogarbage doesn't even have a single fiat to your name and YOU are the one still leeching off mommy and the gov.
But I thought you don't want replies, why do you keep posting then you starved for bones dog. That's right because you have nothing else to say or talk about but the same tired old shit that baits attention and yous.
Let's make a NWN thread and NOT talk about all the amazing multiplayer aspects but have endless shitflings on how the OC is bad, even thought nobody asked or cares about your input. Amazing vision you've got over there homosexuals. Frick off.
Based.
No I'm not based. I'm not anything other than a guy that just wants to talk about the game in peace. These fricking garbage degenerates that come out of the woodwork to SPECIFICALLY TELL YOU how bad THING IS even though nobody fricking asked and instead of TALKING ABOUT THE AMAZING MULTIPLAYER
THEY ARE ALL SILENT
Funny how that works.
Watch them say samegay. Just watch. You homosexuals are beyond fricking degenerate it's unreal, how you sit here and just endlessly engage in this... behavior. If you can even call this behavior, literally animals.
I love the fricking game. That is something a souless piece of biogargabe such as yourselves can NEVER understand. maybe it's because your own lives were devoid of anything authentic or beautiful. Especially when you sold your souls to PW. You are the ones who are pathetic. Sitting here, endlessly baiting. The entire thread, NOT A SINGLE SENTENCE about anything other but
OC BAD
The entire thread. Look at yourself. Calling me pathetic. You are beyond souless. Filth. Stop fricking talking to me or about shit you don't enjoy. That fricking simple.
What's your favourite character build?
Right now for me it's Clerics or Gishes that can do everything.
It's not even funny how little self awareness you have. Only an autist would be this invested in a meaningless internet spat and only a schizo would see every post denigrating the oc as some sort of personal attack. You're actually a mentally ill manchild and it's sad you don't even realize. Even sadder when you admit to be in your thirties and are still this fricking pathetic.
>schizo has resorted to samegayging
jesus christ 33 have a nice day already you dumbass
why would I talk about the multiplayer? nobody is stopping you. I was just saying the oc was garbage and more like a tech demo than anything else. there's better shit on the market and I love nwn, but the oc is fricking trash. the fact that you take this as a personal attack and then segue into talking about the multiplayer (which I haven't mentioned at all) is telling. you're a paranoid schizoid. frick off and rope yourself.
LIKE CLOCKWORK.
Finally the homosexual admits to his dishonesty. A piece of literal garbage such as yourself that schizoposts without quoting anyone like a coward when the discussion was directly targeted AT YOU for WHAT YOU'VE SAID is beyond fricking pathetic. You are a disingenuous, lying fricking piece of shit and snake. Not only nothing you say has any merit but you have forfeited any sense of trust or legitimacy you could ever have. I called you a dog earlier, forgive me. You're actually a fricking rat.
It doesn't surprise me, that A FRICKING RAT, talks shit the entire THREAD about something THEY DONT EVEN ENJOY.
>the entire thread
you absolute homosexual
I have made 6 posts the ENTIRE THREAD and 4 of them have been replies to you because you started replying to me you absolute fricking moron
you are beyond pathetic. I seriously hope you have a nice day. you're actually mentally ill and even being in this thread is exhausting because of 1 (one) fricking autist. frick off and die.
>ENTER A THREAD SPECIFICALLY TO PROCLAIM HOW MUCH I DONT LIKE THING
You admit to even more disingenuous homosexualry. Amazing. Absolute rat. This is exactly how normal discussion should occur, you're 100% right everyone else is mentally ill not your autistic fricking rat brain. Your brain is a fricking tech demo, made by pajeets.
Wtf happend in this thread?
>Make thread
>Have dozens of people, including those who were around on launch, mock op for thinking the nwn oc was good
>OP proceeds to sperg out and whine about the online aspects (which drove almost all community asset creation no less)
>OP then doubles down repeatedly in his meltdown, and even worse reveals that the only reason he even thinks fondly of the OC is due to childhood nostalgia
Embarrassing.
>They think I'm OP.
Bro you rats have fricking lost it completely.
It's ok little rat, maybe one day you'll find a conversation topic that's not OC BAD rent free like some kind of braindead mammal
good morning sirs. calm down rakesh, this is only momentary. your seething will be over soon. your mum will cook you your favourite lasagna. ssh.
51
57
have a nice day
>nwn's oc campaign is shit
It's pretty good. As is better than most of the modern "CRPGs" like PoE or whatever.
Ah yes, the spectacular OC that has next to no plot and is a rote series of fetch quests with next to no actual roleplaying.
Even coomer modules like A Dance with Rogues are better at being a CRPG than the nwn oc.
>ADwR
Hey, frick you don't try to troll me troll the other guy.
But seriously ADwR? That's some spicy bait right there.
nobody is trolling anyone here. it really is literally just one autist seething and sperging out for absolutely no reason. in his schizo mind he's seeing everything and everyone as his enemy and lashing out at everything he perceives as a personal attack (i.e. saying the oc is shit). the only reason I'm here is to farm his (You)s because it's honestly pretty funny seeing someone honestly sperging out like this. you don't get to see this often anymore since usually people are more composed than this.
>for absolutely no reason
LMAO
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT BESIDES
OC BAD
EVERY POST
>the only reason I'm here is to farm his (You)s because it's honestly pretty funny seeing someone honestly sperging out like this.
LMAO OF COURSE YOU ARE
YOU DONT EVEN PLAY THE GAME
THIS IS WHAT THIS WEBSITE IS
A BUNCH OF SUBHUMANS TALKING ABOUT SHIT THEY DONT EVEN ENGAGE IN
THATS THE PROBLEM HERE YOU STUPID RAT
>OC BAD
>COOMER GOOD
Amazing bait.
But Ok moron talk about ADWR. Its insane how much theres NO AWARENESS on you subhumans at all that you have NO OTHER TALKING POINTS
and its so funny how you CAN NOT talk about how AMAZING your special snowflake module is WITHOUT having to talk shit on the OC
Bro when I said your brain is a tech demo made by pajeets I didn't mean for you to take it literally lmao
Went apeshit because you RATS have NOTHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT but THIS.
IF THE OC IS SO BAD.
WHY DO YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT
LMAO
THIS CANT BE YOUR LIVES RIGHT NOW. SELFAWARENESS
IF THE MP IS SO GOOD
WHERE IS THE DISCUSSION
WHERE IS THE VISION
For what the OC? Wizard, Druid, some multiclasses for a joke. Cleric still needs proper planning for Hard
lol
Look at this absolute rat
Through their own admission they're not even here to have a discussion to begin with. They're here to sit in the thread pretending to have the benefit of doubt and moral superiority over others. By continuously antagonizing and stirring the pot for drama. They're literally just here for the drama, abusing anonymity for their own petty and selfish garbage, just like the degeneracy they've been conditioned and addicted to by online communities and everything else their consume. You are a rat. Beyond pathetic.This is where the discussion stops because this is where it should have ended to begin with. From now on every post that starts off with OC BAD should and will be taken as such, because of your dishonest homosexualry that nobody asked for and nobody cares about.
If you enjoy the game so much, talk about the things you enjoy instead. It was always that simple.
embarrassing lmao
You can call me autist, schizo, moronic etc.
But you will always be a rat.
Commonly held by dishonest rats whose opinions were never asked for.
Nobody cares. Talk about Swordfight outside the shadow of OC BAD like a parrot.
>Commonly held by dishonest rats whose opinions were never asked for.
When you seethe and rage like you have been doing this entire thread about the OC being good and screech like an autist at anyone who disagrees, you inherently open yourself to comment and critique. I realize you are a dysfunctional individual who likely had no social interactions with others, but that's how it works.
The only thing I've opened up here is your gaping butthole from all the moronic mindless parroting of OC BAD that you engage in a thread that is supposed to be about whatever special garbage you jerk off to. Develop an ability to talk about things you enjoy instead. That's what I've done, I came into the thread and talked about what I enjoyed. If you do not enjoy it you are welcome to have a conversation about whatever poison you ingest in yourself instead. That's how socializing works your fricking rat, I've met and dealt with more people than your moronic PW online circlejerk can ever imagine. You don't go up to someone and tell them
OC BAD
OC BAD
OC BAD
OC BAD
You're a fricking rat. Shut the frick up.
>NOOOOO STOP SAYING THE OC IS BAD AHHHHH YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RESPOND TO ME IF YOU THINK THIS
Literally both buck and mind broken lmao
>Everyone is wrong except for me
Just take the L and move on bro, you are behaving like a lolcow right now
>I came into the thread and talked about what I enjoyed. If you do not enjoy it you are welcome to have a conversation about whatever poison you ingest in yourself instead
Yeah bro, coming into the thread with your post at
Where you make a bait post saying that anyone who doesn't like the copypasted OC is a degenerate coomer PW bogeyman totally is just talking about what you enjoyed.
Face it, when you act like a moron like that, you open yourself up to responses.
I don't have to justify myself to anyone especially homosexuals that think Ganker is one person or that anyone that disagrees with them can't possibly not be samegay. Thsi thread has been a genuien shithole of bait and garbage from the parroting OC bad idiots that have falseflagged and did anything to discredit it, the fricking rat up above literally admits to it. here
Sit here like rats and jerk yourselves off as much as you want, you will never debase my experience and you will never elevate yours by shitting out OC BAD parroting constantly. And the thing about rats is when put in a small space they all devour each other. Sit and consume each other with yet another echochamber instead of having discussions of NWN so called amazing vision that is nowhere to be seen such as every post is literally OC BAD the entire thread.
>I don't have to justify myself to anyone especially homosexuals that think Ganker is one person or that anyone that disagrees with them can't possibly not be samegay.
Yeah bro, that totally wasn't you. They just seethe about pw and user content like you. They just seethe about 5e like you. They just use the same rhetoric and even type like you. Totally not one person (you).
I accept your utter concession of defeat. Now take your L and stop embarrassing yourself further.
This was my first post here
What was it? That I don't do reddit spacing? Because I said clockwork? Or is it because I call you canimals? Genius deduction frick face. How about? Muh rhetoric. How about you're a fricking rat and I called you out. I talked about these things because it was mentioned before, among the troony posting, bait homosexualry and other rat behavior that is simply ignored in this conversation. Look at the entire state of the thread and yourselves. PW is a disease. Complete permanent damage in our community by degenerates such as yourselves. Are you implying that this is something I've made up? LOL go open any drama thread you fricking rat. Look at THIS thread alone. Half of you larping Black folk don't even play the fricking game. 5e is a casual laughing stock that nobody that played NWN in 2000 takes seriously whatsoever. Are you the same stupid frick that genuinely told me I don't understand how wizard works? have a nice day rat. It doesn't surprise me that a baiting contrarian homosexual like you on /vrpg/ enjoys it so much. There is no loss or win here you fricking animal. You are rats outbaiting each other in a shitty thread on Ganker instead of
1. discussing the game
2. sharing what you love
3. challenging yourself for anything other than this low hanging fruit behavior
You are a rat. All you do is scum around. It's that simple. You and those like you are a paranoid, mentally ill rat that willfully admitted to baiting and purposefully instigating garbage in the thread just for yous. That cannot have a genuine discussion about what you love without going OC BAD over and over.
You are the cancer of this board and the shitty part of NWN that will just never fricking die off. Nobody that plays the fricking game cares about you or anything you have to say. The moment you opened your moronic shit for brains mouth to talk garbage you've outed yourself as a fricking rat. Genuinely and I mean this very rarely, die in a sewer on your own feces.
Nobody cares lilura1 you are a fricking dumbass kid with trash opinions.
I'm not lilura you deeply stupid, worthless c**t. ONE FRICKING POST
Go to bed lilura1 you don't understand this game.
Absolutely embarrassing.
This is the type of person who claims the NWN1 OC is good. Let that sink in for a moment.
The OC is bad and nothing you say will ever change that. It's a shit campaign, right down there with NWN2's OC.
You didn't just burn him, you destroyed his entire argument and victim status he was attempting to project with this. Literally
>Act provocative and like an idiot who can't accept no for an answer
>People reply saying so
>"Wtf why don't you people just leave me alone I didn't make a barely disguised troll post ;.;"
>people have a commonly held opinion that the OC in nwn is bad
>This is held by most people who discuss the game
>Have a twenty post meltdown because you are unable to handle your childhood nostalgia being considered a joke by other people
Swordfight is better than the OC and all the expansions combined.
Swordflight is terrible past act 2, and act 2 already shows why it's going to get terrible.
Yes, and despite that it is still superior to the mindlessly rote OC.
Try forming one singular opinion about your favorite module or server without defaulting to OC BAD like mindless parrot.
>Defaulting
Are you aware of what a baseline thing that other things get compared to is?
The OC is bad, and as such is the measuring stick of minimum quality that modules are held to. "It's better than the OC" isn't saying much, but it is a statement of a minimum level of expected quality.
Frankly, the OC doesent hold up to user modules, much less other CRPGs which destroy it in terms of plot, roleplaying, and combat.
If you cannot speak about something you enjoy without comparing it to something you hate, you do not have a shred of authenticity towards the discussion or the subject you're supposedly enjoying. Genuinely good things do not need to put down something else to stand on their own.
Next time you start a thread about NWN. Try talking about what you enjoy instead of needing a low hanging fruit to make your point across or to engage in rat behavior or OC BAD parroting such as up above. Nobody cares. Nobody asked.
Rat.
Act 2 was amazing. It was like Baldurs gate 2.
My character could do all of the side missions too was proud of it.
literally btfo'd lmao
absolutely mindbroken too
I came into this thread because I saw something incredibly moronic about Wizard and of course it was from a fricking moron that doesn't even fricking play the harder difficulties or the class and that the entire clusterfrick of this thread, that's been one giant bait rollercoaster from literal rats that admit to fricking bait endlessly like this degenerate
, turns out to be filled with worthless rats who can't even share a single opinion about what they enjoy without going OC BAD. You are genuine rats. You care more about some fricking garbage ego manipulation shit than discussing NWN. You don't even fricking talk about the superior goddamn modules or whatever either. Fricking have a nice day.
Can you form ONE original thought of any kind or are you just going to be another parrot? Let's try this thread again, there's still time for the bump limit. How about you begin with:
I really enjoyed . . . My favorite experience was . . . Do you guys know if . . .
Try it out. Just TRY to not go OC BAD for one post. Just one. Maybe this thread is still salvageable. Can you make ONE post where you share a genuine experience that can stand on it's own?
Is the job not working out? Feeling small in life? No power to affect change in your daily routine of flipping burgers?
Schizoing up a thread wont change any of that. You're wrong about pretty much everything you posted and you don't understand the game. You don't understand how it was made, why it was made, how people reacted to the OC, that the multiplayer still accounts for the vast majority of players, or how any of the classes work. All you do is puke poorly conceived word salads endlessly with a lot of stupid insults while projecting and accusing other people of what you're doing.
There would be discussion in this thread if you weren't here. It seems like you spent the entire day spamming bullshit.
You don't understand anything about the game, dnd and you were barely even alive when it was released. You quote Trent Ostner unironically and claim imaginary numbers for the multiplayer component. You don't play the game on challenging difficulties and you can't even clear it with efficiency whatsoever. You've got no clue about the class you were talking about or what it's strengths and weaknesses are. You don't even follow the thread without dishonest baiting and regressive garbage that only detracts discussion, stop trying to frame the narrative in your favor that you're somehow extremely innocent in this interaction because you and those like you have been admitted to being a complete rat. Look at the thread you fricking dipshits, I came in here TO TALK ABOUT THE GAME. To talk about a wizard and you had zero arguments. Your argument was literally "Um, no sweetie thats not how you play wizard. Why would you do that? That's not how it's played!". You want some actual ego flexing? I will literally fricking mog you to fricking death in any module as wizard you stupid frick, pen&paper too. Shut the frick up. I tried to be civil from the fricking start. You on the other hand, sitting in a thread, outbaiting each other instead of talking about the game. Now you are blaming me that you can't talk about the game.
>ITS THE SCHIZOS FAULT
There is nothing stopping you. One fricking post you motherfricking rat.
Except that I wasn't wrong. Not on the wizard argument, not on the OC. You have provided extremely poor examples with the wizard one and your only overall rebuttal for the latter is literally OC BAD. You're not capable of sharing or having any discussion without needing to devalue the original campaign, who does that? Who does it sound like? you are simply a goddamn rat.
You were wrong and everyone told you so. If you played wizard like that in pnp you would die of old age before defeating your first ogre. You're the only one that had trouble playing the wizard class and not understanding the basics. You b***h about multiplayer where everyone plays overtuned pws and deals with harder stuff than the OC every day. They all know how to play effectively with worse restrictions like rest timers. They all outperform you. All you've got in life and in this discussion is calling people names and repeating your incorrect statements.
Take a chill pill you imbecile. Isn't it past midnight in Switzerland or wherever the frick you come from? Go to fricking bed. Nobody will believe you have a job or anything to do with your life at this rate. Then again that would sort of explain why you've been acting like this.
You are an idiot and you don't even realize.
>I will literally fricking mog you to fricking death in any module as wizard you stupid frick, pen&paper too.
You wont, everybody is better than you. In pvp or just fighting monsters. I have yet to see any evidence that you know how to play on easy difficulty let alone hard.
How are you going to beat anyone when your wizard just sleeps after every battle? They'll just coup de grace your sorry ass. Simple.
You know what you're right. You're simply not fricking worth it. I love the fricking game and you're just a fricking rat. It will always be that simple. You will never be able to share one genuine experience without needing to destroy or shit on something, because you are ugly and revolting inside and I'm not sure if it's because of PW or whatever else but I know for sure I'm never touching it again. Keep your fricking drama and your stupid garbage. Spam this bullshit yourselves as much as you want because in the end that is all you'll ever have while I'll just play efficiently and have an enjoyable experience both in the oc and whatever other module the game can offer, what it was designed for not what one goddamn mmo addict shitface like yourself risked and failed on. Go on, one more time tell me how Wizard works you dumb frick. Literally go to fricking hell and die. Don't forget to parrot OC BAD on your way there.
I could explain it to you but you would never understand.
If you had any common sense you would sit back and re-evaluate. You started ranting and going insane with two different arguments in one thread. The wizard thing which you were completely wrong about in such a pathetic way. Then the OC thing. If you had any common sense you would realize that you're the problem and you're not capable of talking properly.
>Just TRY to not go OC BAD for one post.
No. Shut the frick up.
fricking lol, this autistic sperg out is compilation worthy
Because it's entirely about community made content and most people skip community content and judge a game based on it's campaign. It also came before the youtube wave that made games like GarrysMod and Minecraft popular.
It's obscure because the campaigns - both he original and DLC are just meh. The OC has nothing on the BG series in its twists or gravity and the DLC kind of just jump the shark and are still shitty.
The modules, the modding community, and online PWs have only ever been why people like it and it has survived so long due to roleplayers and coomers with much overlap.
OC 1/5, SoU 3/5, HotU 2/5 imo.
People play because it has a toolset that requires very little to make stuff in and can be expanded into space via hak files.
NWN2 did horribly in comparison because the toolset it was bundled with was kind of doodoo and it looks like an aberrant mess (but it had some nice developments mechanically and also had some conveniences when it came to PWs).
NWN2 also has its own esoteric community of coomers and roleplayers that has survived but it wasn't ever as prolific as NWN due to poor optimization and being abandoned pretty much.
However I will say its original campaigns are much better as a game and tale. OC 3/5, 5/5 MotB, SoZ 4/5.
For both I wouldn't really have any feedback for the premium modules/3rd party but in house modules, never played them. I have never really played many of the single player modules either.
The best way to play wizard is to dip in something like rogue. In pnp just take a feat like practiced spellcaster to cover the CL loss and it will pay itself back in everything else. The high int and the rogue skill set will get you a huge bang for your back and evasion is good too. Investing in dex is also a good choice if you take this route, it will net you extra AC, initiative, and finesse/ranged attack bonus. Typically you start with some kind of ranged weapon, crossbow if you're low str. Through CC, party and summons your opponents will often be flat-footed and you'll do extra damage. Even if you're playing a straight wizard in a solo game you should spread your stats out enough to survive. Take spells with long duration, in NWN duration for a few spells has been increased. Blaster wizards are always the most low IQ wizard you can find, if you want combat spells at least take some CC spells or some damage shield + damage reduction spells. A good wizard understands when to use spells to get the most bang for the buck and when you pick off trash with other methods like a crossbow.
who cares about the oc? it's shit. play the expansions and the multiplayer. mess around with the toolset, maybe make ur own module. those are what make the game good.
The OC is pretty good.
There's something about early 2000's 3D graphics that makes some games seem more soulful. NWN and Soulbringer are two such cases.
NWN is obscure because it appeals to people who are interested in actual role playing. For cRPG fans Tyrants of the Moonsea and Darkness Over Daggerford have you covered but that's about it. The OC is terrible, the expansions are alright although Underdark doesn't even provide native online coop which was pretty much the main selling point of the series. To put it bluntly Bioware owes the success of NWN to everyone else but themselves.
>To put it bluntly Bioware owes the success of NWN to everyone else but themselves.
Which they engineered. The toolset went through various revisions and everything was done to make it the most user friendly they could back in the day. It took minutes to create a module from scratch which was a big leap forward. They knew that modders liked their games which is what led to all those popular WeiDU mods. They were still in their experimental phase back then so they were trying out different ideas with NWN being one of their boldest experiments. To put it into perspective they were even considering things like height mapped terrain and made prototypes for it, they already had terrain morphing in Shattered Steel and had the tech to do crazy stuff. They settled with 3D tiled terrain because of the advantages it had. It was simple and easier to work with, it was faster to generate some consistent looking areas, and the data footprint was low enough that it could be loaded over bad internet connections without a huge download. To prove a point, Obsidian made NWN2 with different considerations and added in some of that stuff at the expense of other things and it was a flop for any serious modders. The best thing BioWare ever did was make easy and accessible tools and then get out of the way.
There was this anon with a hand made compilation of kaedrin + ToB on Ganker, I didn't have the time to download it before the thread went 404, someone has the link?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QoReLYmDDgsq_2q-yPkHnlO5eV6qADj_/view
I can't vouch for it working one way or the other but there it is.
What's TOB?
Tomb of Battle I assume, it's a splatbook that turns martial classes into magic martial classes to replace the standard martial classes. It could also be Tome and Blood but most of that was included in other books for 3.5.
I tries to replay this again and again over the years but can never get pass the fact that the dialogue window, the think you look at the most in an RPG, is in the upper left corner of the screen and I can't seemingly find any mods that will let me move it.
My neck will always start hurting from constantly looking up and left.
Keep in mind, back in the day resolution was much lower and that means the dialogue window was bigger. Same thing about NWN2. It aged rather poorly.
I played it on a 15inch in 800x600 resolution back in the day so the box was more more less at eye level and just a bit to the left. Now I got a 24inch 2560x1440 and it's unbearable
>unironically falling for the 4k meme
you can tell it's a boomer
I played D&D since the mid 90s. Don't believe what the posers try and tell you. It was always a game first and foremost and there was no greater goal and games were usually always a mess. NWN was the single best implementation of D&D ever. Maybe ToEE was technically good but it lacked a lot of the fun and the ability to play one character in a group.
Bros I want to give NWN a try. Is the Enhanced Edition worth it for the UI scaling? Seems like it has a lot of bad reviews.
Every year I try to replay nwn2, I spend 3-4 hours modding the game, having high hopes about the adventures I'm going to experience, only to end trying to make the interfacesquad AI work and give up after a while, rolling back to IE games.
The only time I actually managed to complete the game is back on release when I finished the OC and then when I ran a solo build when MOTB released. This engine sucks big time and the game is barely playable on modern machines, even with the client extension (I've seen my first blue screen since 2010 after I tried to alt-tab). I just want a comfy squad builder crpg.
Yeah, NWN2 has one of the worst engines I've ever seen outside of barely functional shovelware. Runs like shit on hardware nearly 20 years ahead of its time and it's buggy as frick.
>bioware gives obsidian the aurora
>obsidian tries to reinvent the wheel with it rather than use it as is (like cdpr did with the witcher)
>updated engine is incomplete and buggy as frick
EVERY FRICKING TIME
>like cdpr did with the witcher
CDPR rewrote the entire render engine of Aurora2, since they thought the base one was shit (speuler: it was).
You just wouldn't use the rendering engine because that was the worst part. It was outdated and in the early 00s there had already been changes to graphics processing. The reason for using Aurora was everything else, but CDPR didn't have a mandate to make an accessible toolset for module creation, a dm client, and a persistent world/multiplayer capabilities. Obsidian was stupid for putting the focus on telling a story and neglecting the other stuff but if they only had to make a single-player story from the start then they would have done better.
It wasn't obscure, it was inferior.
Arcanum's a unique setting with copious content, solid oldschool gameplay, and was made by Troika, who went on to make the awesome Bloodlines, who everyone misses.
NWN was such a, "meh" followup to Baldur's Gate it's almost as eclipsed by Mass Effect as Jade Empire was.
true, true.
Retroactive fanboys are the worst. Nobody really supported Troika when they were still a thing. I did but I'm not going to say their games were superior to anything. They weren't, they were often outdated and a total mess. Arcanum had a lot of problems and lacked any real depth to the mechanics. The setting wasn't that unique and it just heavily leaned on pop culture references. Nobody played it back then, and only a few play it now. NWN has a legacy and is still thriving compared to Arcanum. I play both games but Arcanum fans sure do live in their own delusional reality where it's even a remotely relevant game.
No one ever cared about Arcanum. It's a bunch of junk that got shilled to you by some cringy youtuber.
Honestly the biggest issue with NWN2 is how clunky it fricking is
Horrid control scheme clearly made for one character instead of a party at time
Having to go through different pages to access all your usable stuff because the inventory is geniunely bad and castable feats & skills are only on the feat screen until you put them on the quickcast or hotkeybar
Some very counterintuitive design like random cutscenes putting your character dead center just outside of melee range every 5 minutes for combat so casters and ranged people get fricked. Hell, the game is extremely easy and the strongest builds are mostly in this group so it's just a major common inconvenience, they even knew it and made the default mode not let the MC take AoOs
Can't modify difficulty, have to choose between presets
Game is extremely slow with no real way of making it faster, ie you really have to walk around areas you have already went through at a snails pace often
Crap like losing wild shape and similar spells on all dialogues
Crap like the save system breaking items and buffs
Very bad targeting, npc following issues(they always react like they are in combat when it comes to following, they really will wait 6 fricking seconds to start moving so you have to always use group move) make just moving around annoying
Loading screens and saves stutter the entire computer
Game just isn't optimized well although not horribly
Bad audiomixing
Released with a bunch of not working feats, abilities and spells
Very crappy combat log
Funniest part is most ancient cRPGs didn't have most of these issues. The game isn't bad but there was a clear backwards movement when it comes to it.
I have never finished the OC campaign or SoU. I love playing as a sorcerer and jumping straight into HotU let's you start with some powerful spells; it's just a match made in heaven. the OC campaign actively punishes you for being a pure caster class, because, as others have pointed out, you have limited spells in quality and quantity early on and relying on your familiar/henchman feels like you're gimping yourself as they "soak" up exp and that leaves you in the fear of never reaching lvl. 17 or 18 (where the real fun of sorcerer/wizard begins).
should I try playing through the OC with a paladin or is the campaign so bad overall that it's not worth getting into the game again?
>fear of never reaching lvl. 17 or 18 (where the real fun of sorcerer/wizard begins).
Black person what
Game already skips to lv 3 and instantly gives you 2 more levels in under an hour. Full casters already get great stuff by 8-9, not fricking 17 or 18
What the frick are you guys even on
>Black person what
as I've said, I'm spoiled by the HotU campaign as this is basically all I've ever played in NWN.
>it's not Sorcerer
where's the difference in that regard? I thought the main difference was that the wizard gets more spells in his spellbook to choose from and the sorcerer gets more spell casts per day/rest. I always thought sorcerer would be the best choice to get through the sluggish early game because of his +1 spell cast?
I've never tried a monk and I don't know if I ever will. this class type is always my least favourite in any cRPG.
>I've never tried a monk and I don't know if I ever will. this class type is always my least favourite in any cRPG.
It's a mixture of different reasons. Mostly, in OC there are no enemies that can shrug off your fists, assuming you wear the correct pair of gauntlets (in other campaigns like HotU there are bosses that shit on monks), evasion that allows you to ignore traps and high saves that help with everything. Additionally, your walking speed increases with levels and encounters generally are resolved rather quickly.
All of these are also the reasons why Grimgnaw is the most efficient henchman.
Monk works flawlessly because it's one long endless beatdown from one area to the next since the OC is mostly* an endless barrage of enemies that don't soak up physical damage very well. Take Grimgnaw with you and you can pass it on the hardest difficulty no issue.
>paladin
Shit version of Cleric. Wizard is extremely powerful in the OC. Yes you rely on your henchman and familiar early on but that's the point of the class, it's not Sorcerer. Halfway through act 2 you can basically erase the screen even if it's your first time playing the class.
The uncrowned king of OC is monk.
To be fair, that's only because the OC is a frickton of impractically huge areas with a flood of very low difficulty enemies.
Seriously, why the frick is that
Here, 8 wolves that get oneshot by everyone and can't really hit you
Here, 15 zombies that do the same but might ignore one type of damage, sometimes
Here, 10 bandits that also do nothing but make you check for loot a lot because they keep dropping complete trash, each and every one of them
Repeat till end of campaign
Bad encounter design metrics.
You are not incorrect but in OC monk can solo every encounter, including dragons.
Yes because the OC is really easy and gives you a million ways to deal with the Monk's personal shortcomings for the small sections of content where they matter. Put them in a harder module like Swordflight and they struggle hard.
>Put them in a harder module like Swordflight and they struggle hard.
Yes, I know. For your information, HotU and SoU are also bad for monk players.
>SoU
>bad for monk players
Did I play monk wrong? Cause SoU Monk playthrough was easiest shit ever, especially with Deekin Buffs.
Normal difficulty is a breeze for everything. Hard is the most optimal choice, very difficult just adds unnecessary tedium with the enemy DPS % increase. Pass it once you'll understand what I mean
I personally find it more surprising that this game has any following to begin with.
Even Planescape's gameplay can be called a masterpiece compared to this clunky, buggy, and automated piece of shit.
The base campaign sucks ass but SoU and HotU were really good from what I've seen, I didn't get far yet though.
I loved some of the dialogue in SoU especially, you can't see shit like this anymore in modern games.
It's not obscure. It was game of the year and ultra popular around 2002. It's just fricking old as shit.
OC is a bit slow, sparse and hack n slash, but it's still a professional/Bioware campaign. Therefore most of the community content could never compete with it on pure artistic and technical polish, despite Bioware clearly playing it safe and demonstrative.
NWN is forgotten because they found much greater sales releasing the opposite (singleplayer, linear, polished, no-mods) kind of crpg with Dragon Age, and then arpg releases with its sequels and Mass Effect. And that was probably because NWN as a VTT crpg was way ahead of its time and required tech to go mainstream. Even today is probably too early.
>Therefore most of the community content could never compete with it on pure artistic and technical polish
They do though. For example, Swordflight.
>Great soundtrack
>Great class variety
>Great companions
>Great choices in every quest
Kino