Not really, those bosses were super simple so the fact they didn't overstay the welcome was good, only complicated fight was Cackletta's soul.
Final boss was a fricking slog holy shit that was long
>be moronic kid >didn't know i could move the bonus roulette to different stats so i only had a shit ton of HP >started getting raped by everything by the time i got to the volcano area >reset the game and never pick it up again for years
Same thing with me and Superstar Saga but I actually beat the game a few times that way. I kind of missed how long it took to beat bosses and the necessity of using items once I figured out I could pump other stats.
I can see anon leveling up and being like
"PLS anything but health, anything but health"
"health"
"this shit must be bugged"
Worst thing is the more you level up one stat the lower the numbers you can get become, so you didn't really had that much more hp then a normal gameplay
You don't get either of these until very late in the game, though to be fair I don't think any of the bosses beyond the Princess Shroob gauntlet is hard, they're all just too durable yet havy easy attack patterns
HD development raped them to death, which is also true of the majority of Nintendo's mausoleum of dead IPs. They basically only have a few real development teams and their cash cow franchises take up all of them on a dedicated schedule. That's why you're never getting another F-Zero/Kid Icarus/Wario Land/etc. until they get their own dedicated studio like Kirby has HAL and Metroid finally has those Spaniards. As for Alphadream, they simply weren't equipped to make HD games, so they tried to survive on remakes and asset reuse before succumbing.
Those designs for Wario and Waluigi are bad and its a little difficult to think of a premise for the game. It's difficult to find explanations for why Wario and Waluigi would be working with Mario and Luigi. For Bowser, you have options. He could be tricked into it, it could be within the interest of his kingdom, he might just be really mad against a greater enemy, could be anything. But Wario isn't really a hero and Waluigi doesn't have enough development. Can't really imagine why Wario would need to go on an adventure other than scoundrel or executive reasons. It would be cool though. Maybe if the pair had their own wacky adventure outside of the Mario Bros., I could see it. It's fun to think of moves and properties for them. They'd have to be more unique individually than Mario and Luigi.
Anon we're talking about a Mario game, it's not like you need some deep grounded reason as to why Mario and Luigi would have to team up with Wario and Waluigi. Just have Mario and Luigi chase after an evil dude that's causing trouble to the mushroom kingdom and have the same evil dude steal a magical gem/artifact Wario and Waluigi were looking for or some bullshit like that and the two couples have a common enemy to team up against.
Having to control four playable characters simultaneously makes learning new moves feel like a punishment for progressing. Traversing the overworld and dealing with tougher foes just becomes more and more tedious the more convoluted and tedious inputs you're expected to throw on the pile.
To compensate for the game having no content. As a kid I was so disappointed that there was fricking nothing to do in the world aside from digging up a few holes. These levels felt so dead coming from TTYD.
>hard
How the frick can it give you trouble? I cleared everything first try. Didn't even die once. I did have trouble figuring out the patterns of enemies in the castle though.
>muh backtracking
Nobody cares. Limited level design is a TTYD flaw, backtracking barely matters on the big picture. TTYD is still the best Mario RPG though.
Difficulty is all over the place at times but it's fun.
The spark required minibosses will rape you and are the true test to see if you know what you're doing.
NTA but while TTYD does have backtracking its not uncommon for RPGs. Even M&L is no stranger to that, between the palace in PiT or some parts of SSS.
Only General White is really badly done. Weird how Color Splash never gets shit for making you replay a few of its levels entirely again for progression
>You backtrack every time you place a crystal star in the Thousand-Year Door to update the map.
Doesn't really count.
Chapter 4 has better examples of what backtracking is and isn't: >going back to the village the first time as shadow Mario doesn't count, since you have to fight solo which is an added challenge and changes everything. Plus Doopliss appears again at the end >going back to the Church isn't backtracking since you get to try out your new partner and explore a new area >going back to the village and then the Church again is backtracking since it adds nothing
See?
General White isn't exactly backtracking since it's more of a joke and a way to get you to use the shortcuts and see that you've unlocked those. Also lets you speak to previous npcs and check on areas you've saved earlier. Is it a chore? Yeah, definitely, the joke probably overstayed its welcome. But I wouldn't exactly put it in the "backtracking" category.
Not moving goalposts, and not the anon who said TTYD doesn't have backtracking. What I'm saying is that the return trip at the end of a chapter has value and meaning. It's not just padding, it's actually a breather and a build up. The last trip to the village/church in chapter 4, however, adds nothing except padding, that's what I'd call backtracking.
my main problem with TTYD is the level design, I could blame it on backtracking but honestly I'll just blame it on meh design, the gimmicks are cute and all but doesn't make for exciting gameplay.
Prefer the simple approach of the original game.
64 is more balanced but TTYD has the greatest substories and setpieces. I like 64's neat levels and stuff like Toad Town interacting with the Shy Guys Toy Box, but in the end what I'm going to remember is stuff like pic. Not to say gameplay doesn't matter but the difference isn't big enough to make or break the feeling of adventure which is what I'll remember Paper Mario for.
Same. TTYD has some "objective flaws" like some chapter having backtracking and the movement being slower but it is overall more distinct and epic. I don't think I unironically felt as hyped in a video game ever as the first time I did glitz pit as the great gonzales. Shit like that makes the game.
Basically this. I'm sure there are more complex and thorough RPG games than Paper Mario (Bug Fables is one btw) but almost none that come close to this level of hype. To this day, I still get this "TTYD... home..." feeling, which I don't think I really get anywhere else, at least not as much
First 3 are a must, even if Super Paper Mario is a bit of a wildcard.
Sticker Star and Color Splash are easy skips, Origami King is worth considering for a blind playthrough.
64 and TTYD are absolute musts
Super has writing quality, but different not terrible gameplay.
Sticker Star is bad across the board
Color Splash and Origami King has terrible gameplay, but fun dialogue frick you I liked it
>TOK is worth playing
It really, really isn't. It's literally the same exact shit as color splash, some horrible story with overuse of wacky humor to make up for lack of any actual characters. Gameplay is dogshit too.
So how did the Shroobs employ Shy Guys, Bob-ombs, Para-Starlows, and wood-armed robotic whateverthefricks? Wasn't there a language barrier for at least the first two?
IIRC bosses have a FRICKTON of health for no good reason.
Better than Superstar Saga where most bosses die in like 3 turns or less.
Not really, those bosses were super simple so the fact they didn't overstay the welcome was good, only complicated fight was Cackletta's soul.
Final boss was a fricking slog holy shit that was long
Probably because copy flower exists
>be moronic kid
>didn't know i could move the bonus roulette to different stats so i only had a shit ton of HP
>started getting raped by everything by the time i got to the volcano area
>reset the game and never pick it up again for years
Same thing with me and Superstar Saga but I actually beat the game a few times that way. I kind of missed how long it took to beat bosses and the necessity of using items once I figured out I could pump other stats.
What’s stache? Luck?
yes
Luck and males shops cheaper
sex appeal
If I recall it unlocks chance based additional combos to bro moves or something.
I can see anon leveling up and being like
"PLS anything but health, anything but health"
"health"
"this shit must be bugged"
Worst thing is the more you level up one stat the lower the numbers you can get become, so you didn't really had that much more hp then a normal gameplay
Chugga? Is that you?
Lmao same
I'm so glad I'm not the only dipshit that did this
Same here.
And that's why Paper Mario is better.
Paper Mario is better because you're moronic? Checks out.
Yep that was me too.
same here. Bowser+Jr. fight was the first time I started to get raped. Somehow managed to power through but never beat the final boss.
I don't recall that female koopa.
wasnt she in the desert? or was that the first game?
Bros. Items. When you get Mix Flowers, any semblance of difficulty is over.
play the EU version, they accidentally bloated the boss HP for no reason in the murican one
>press mix flower
>wipe normal battle in one turn
>press copy flower
>wipe boss in one turn
wow so hard
You don't get either of these until very late in the game, though to be fair I don't think any of the bosses beyond the Princess Shroob gauntlet is hard, they're all just too durable yet havy easy attack patterns
I like to evenly level all my stats in these games. Focusing on just POW and BP (not Partners in Time obviously) makes the games way too easy.
i will forever be mad
Alphadream honestly deserved bankruptcy if this most obvious premise for a game in the world legitimately never even occurred to them.
They deserved bankruptcy because their games were increasingly becoming fetish shit.
Oh yeah, all that fetish shit in Dream Team and Paper Jam.
The rape scene in Paper Jam was a bridge too far, yeah.
>that one pooping scene in Dream Team
for me it was the anal vore scene
They deserved bankruptcy because they decided to pump out remakes on a dead console when the Switch was already out and had a huge install base
Imagine how well a M&L collection of the first 3 games would have sold
HD development raped them to death, which is also true of the majority of Nintendo's mausoleum of dead IPs. They basically only have a few real development teams and their cash cow franchises take up all of them on a dedicated schedule. That's why you're never getting another F-Zero/Kid Icarus/Wario Land/etc. until they get their own dedicated studio like Kirby has HAL and Metroid finally has those Spaniards. As for Alphadream, they simply weren't equipped to make HD games, so they tried to survive on remakes and asset reuse before succumbing.
Ok, I get the entirety of BiS since that was just furry vore and weight gain, but why Dream Team and Paper Jam?
Never got the appeal of this. Would much rather new and unique stuff, unless the wario bros are meant to be alternate protags like how bowser was.
Those designs for Wario and Waluigi are bad and its a little difficult to think of a premise for the game. It's difficult to find explanations for why Wario and Waluigi would be working with Mario and Luigi. For Bowser, you have options. He could be tricked into it, it could be within the interest of his kingdom, he might just be really mad against a greater enemy, could be anything. But Wario isn't really a hero and Waluigi doesn't have enough development. Can't really imagine why Wario would need to go on an adventure other than scoundrel or executive reasons. It would be cool though. Maybe if the pair had their own wacky adventure outside of the Mario Bros., I could see it. It's fun to think of moves and properties for them. They'd have to be more unique individually than Mario and Luigi.
Anon we're talking about a Mario game, it's not like you need some deep grounded reason as to why Mario and Luigi would have to team up with Wario and Waluigi. Just have Mario and Luigi chase after an evil dude that's causing trouble to the mushroom kingdom and have the same evil dude steal a magical gem/artifact Wario and Waluigi were looking for or some bullshit like that and the two couples have a common enemy to team up against.
I always go full stache.
how much stache do you need to make princess shroobs lust for italian men overwhelm her lust for conquest?
For me, it's full Stache for Luigi and full Power for Mario.
For me, it's a mix of POW and Stache for Mario and Luigi.
Having to control four playable characters simultaneously makes learning new moves feel like a punishment for progressing. Traversing the overworld and dealing with tougher foes just becomes more and more tedious the more convoluted and tedious inputs you're expected to throw on the pile.
>be rpg
>have hub world that takes you to other disconnected levels in a linear fashion.
dropped
Strangely enough Superstar Saga was the only M&L game that had an overworld or a sense of exploration.
To compensate for the game having no content. As a kid I was so disappointed that there was fricking nothing to do in the world aside from digging up a few holes. These levels felt so dead coming from TTYD.
haven't played it in a while but i remember cheesing it pretty easily with the bean system and spamming bro attacks every turn
>hard
How the frick can it give you trouble? I cleared everything first try. Didn't even die once. I did have trouble figuring out the patterns of enemies in the castle though.
i'll miss the old mario rpgs
Oh yeah, all that riveting gameplay walking back and forth the same fricking corridors for hours.
Shh don't tell the paper mario gays this, they don't want you to know half of TTYD is spent backtracking
>muh backtracking
Nobody cares. Limited level design is a TTYD flaw, backtracking barely matters on the big picture. TTYD is still the best Mario RPG though.
That’s TTYD.
64 chads don’t have to deal with that outside of Flower Fields
TTYD isn't back and forth usually, but more like a straight line sadly. Except in dungeons, which are pretty decent.
play sparks of hope
Is sparks of hope actually pretty good?
no, but play it anyways
it's fantastic yeah, it took a lot of inspiration from the RPG games for the overworld
Difficulty is all over the place at times but it's fun.
The spark required minibosses will rape you and are the true test to see if you know what you're doing.
I liked that one more than Bowser's Inside Story
TTYD has literally zero backtracking.
You backtrack every time you place a crystal star in the Thousand-Year Door to update the map.
Also General White.
NTA but while TTYD does have backtracking its not uncommon for RPGs. Even M&L is no stranger to that, between the palace in PiT or some parts of SSS.
Only General White is really badly done.
Weird how Color Splash never gets shit for making you replay a few of its levels entirely again for progression
Color Splash doesn't get shit for that because that's relatively minor compared to the other flaws the game has.
Fair enough, the combat is abysmal
I know RPG's have backtracking usually, but that seems irrelevant. That anon said it has "literally zero" backtracking. He's mistaken, that's all.
>You backtrack every time you place a crystal star in the Thousand-Year Door to update the map.
Doesn't really count.
Chapter 4 has better examples of what backtracking is and isn't:
>going back to the village the first time as shadow Mario doesn't count, since you have to fight solo which is an added challenge and changes everything. Plus Doopliss appears again at the end
>going back to the Church isn't backtracking since you get to try out your new partner and explore a new area
>going back to the village and then the Church again is backtracking since it adds nothing
See?
General White isn't exactly backtracking since it's more of a joke and a way to get you to use the shortcuts and see that you've unlocked those. Also lets you speak to previous npcs and check on areas you've saved earlier. Is it a chore? Yeah, definitely, the joke probably overstayed its welcome. But I wouldn't exactly put it in the "backtracking" category.
>Doesn't really count.
Not moving goalposts, and not the anon who said TTYD doesn't have backtracking. What I'm saying is that the return trip at the end of a chapter has value and meaning. It's not just padding, it's actually a breather and a build up. The last trip to the village/church in chapter 4, however, adds nothing except padding, that's what I'd call backtracking.
GUFFAW
It wasn't? It wasn't brain-dead but it wasn't exactly difficult either.
What are you stuck at OP?
The NA version amped up all the enemy HP. I think the EU and Japanese versions have weaker enemies.
I remember thinking this was hard as frick as a kid and never beat it. I should hack my 3DS and download it prob.
my main problem with TTYD is the level design, I could blame it on backtracking but honestly I'll just blame it on meh design, the gimmicks are cute and all but doesn't make for exciting gameplay.
Prefer the simple approach of the original game.
64 is more balanced but TTYD has the greatest substories and setpieces. I like 64's neat levels and stuff like Toad Town interacting with the Shy Guys Toy Box, but in the end what I'm going to remember is stuff like pic. Not to say gameplay doesn't matter but the difference isn't big enough to make or break the feeling of adventure which is what I'll remember Paper Mario for.
this but with sparks of hope, bowser's inside story and dream team
The Mario&Luigi games are a bit too wacky for my tastes but I still like them
Same. TTYD has some "objective flaws" like some chapter having backtracking and the movement being slower but it is overall more distinct and epic. I don't think I unironically felt as hyped in a video game ever as the first time I did glitz pit as the great gonzales. Shit like that makes the game.
Basically this. I'm sure there are more complex and thorough RPG games than Paper Mario (Bug Fables is one btw) but almost none that come close to this level of hype. To this day, I still get this "TTYD... home..." feeling, which I don't think I really get anywhere else, at least not as much
>Rogueport... home....
Frick you, it hurts. In a good way.
64 and TTYD like anon said. 64 is more generic but still charming, TTYD has more features and a much better story but is less polished.
It is ? I don't remember. I remember beating it without too much resistance. I remember the very last boss being a bit challenging but thats all.
I've somehow never played any Paper Mario please don't bully me. Which ones should I get around to right now and are there any ones I should skip?
Play Paper Mario 64 and Paper Mario TTYD. Skip all the rest. Super Paper Mario aint as bad so it is optional. But also not like the first two.
First 3 are a must, even if Super Paper Mario is a bit of a wildcard.
Sticker Star and Color Splash are easy skips, Origami King is worth considering for a blind playthrough.
>Super
>a must
For a first time playthrough I think its a really interesting game, even if I couldn't blame anyone for hating since its so all over the place
The issue with Super is how small it feels. I didn't feel an adventure in it just like in 64 and TTYD, despite the story playing it up way more
Might because of the segmented levels and lack of a proper overworld, I feel similarly about it.
Don't play Origami King, it has nothing other than admittedly nice visuals
Play: Paper Mario 64, TTYD, Super Paper Mario
Skip: Sticker Star, Color Splash, Origami King
perfect
don't play anything after ttyd, super is a shitty platformer that's best experienced through youtube
First 3 in release order.
64 and TTYD are absolute musts
Super has writing quality, but different not terrible gameplay.
Sticker Star is bad across the board
Color Splash and Origami King has terrible gameplay, but fun dialogue frick you I liked it
TOK is worth playing, skip all the other nu-PMs, which includes SPM. It has the best OST by far.
>TOK is worth playing
Lol. Even SPM is better. TOK not only has trash gameplay like SPM but it also has trash writing on top of that.
Based
>TOK is worth playing
It really, really isn't. It's literally the same exact shit as color splash, some horrible story with overuse of wacky humor to make up for lack of any actual characters. Gameplay is dogshit too.
Game is fun but sucks to emulate because the lag fricking over timing attacks.
>Mario & Luigi thread dissolves into Paper Mario cancer
Every time.
I'm so tired.
Discuss M&L more then
When are we getting Super Mario RPG 2, Super Mario RPG: Heavensward, and Super Mario RPG Crisis Core?
>New M&L never ever
>rom hacks never ever
is dream team fun, I only remember the tutorials
It wasn't hard, it was really fulll gone bloat HP in the end of the game
Is any of the M&L 3D remakes worth playing?
>Is any of the M&L 3D remakes worth playing?
No, they are inferior to the original in every way.
superstar dx makes the boss fights not piss easy, plus some other QOL changes. Don't listen to boomer homosexuals like
So how did the Shroobs employ Shy Guys, Bob-ombs, Para-Starlows, and wood-armed robotic whateverthefricks? Wasn't there a language barrier for at least the first two?
Violence is a universal language
Are you moronic? I beat that shit when I was 12.
>he didn't play the remake that brings boss hp to its JP amount