Why is WoW classic so much better than retail?
Why is WoW classic so much better than retail?
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babbys first mmo. the whole game is literally fetch questing the game. no better than gacha dailies.
fr fr no cap
ye classic kinda mid fr fr
>he doesn't enjoy collecting raptor heads
for me it's bear pelts
You know that's pretty offensive to gachas that at least have some actual gameplay or story.
>Actually defending gachashit
Go back you absolute newfag
Absolute fucking retard
Spoken like a true zoomer.
SPBP, it's a shame WoW killed real MMORPGs.
You only have fond memories of pre-WoW mmos because they were a novelty at the time. They were extremely flawed and bad games compared to WoW. I played years of EQ and DaoC.
EQ through velious was great but largely carried by the people who played mmos at the time. It was a different time, and for the most part a very chill crowd. Ironically a lot of the tryhard guilds jumped ship to WoW.
yeah, EQ was an incredible experience. It was my first MMO and I have lots of great memories of it. But anyone saying that the oldschool mmos of the late 90s and early 00s were better actual games than vanilla WoW is straight up delusional. Vanilla WoW had the chill playerbase, the novelty of the mmo genre still hadn't worn off, but it introduced actual competent game design and much improved gameplay as well. It was no doubt the peak of the genre.
>is straight up delusional
No, I just have zero tolerance for themepark MMOs and the enormous heap of unfun bullshit that is leveling in them.
>I played years of EQ and DaoC.
No shit you'd think pre-WoW MMOs were bad.
well, what else is there other than Runescape, SW Galaxy, Ultima Online and some asian grinders like Ragnarok Online, Lineage etc? Vanilla WoW was a decade ahead of each and every one of those games.
WoW didn't play like any of those games. You might as well have said that ARMA was a decade ahead of Dark Forces. Completely useless comparison.
EQ created the formula that killed MMOs, WoW just streamlined and popularised it.
wowtrannies seething in the replies lmao
fuck off zoomer moron
>coping wowchuds is seething
lmaooooooooooooo dial8 and keep conzooming your censored goyslop game
ON GOD ON GOD my bro spitting facts fr
This. Everquest is better. WoW killed MMO's by ruining the standard.
My first MMO was Lineage 2, gay
Compared to single player games, it certainly was incredibly repetitive but compared to other MMOs it was the opposite.
lots of MMOs before WoW were super grindy and repetitive, like nothing to do other than kill mobs and take 10 hours for 1 level up
at least WoW gave you things to do (questing, dungeons, PvP) to make leveling less mindless.
you were supposed to roleplay with other players in older mmos. but instead you gays said "fuck talking to other players" and decided to dungeon queue your way to modern wow.
>but instead you gays said "fuck talking to other players" and decided to dungeon queue your way to modern wow.
It's almost like WoW Classic was (and still is) flooded with retail babbies who just play it in between content droughts in retail
I was 9 years old when it came out and when I first played it. So you do have a point.
Millennial trannies seething in the replies
>proceeds to install mods
are you retrardred?
Yes people have been using the same shitty raid mods, ui mods and dmg meters since classic zoomer.
And anyone that claims otherwise has either never seen MC from the inside or cleared it arround the time people were progressing Naxx
>using raid mods for vanilla raids
that is extremely pathetic
That is what people that actually raided did zoomer, stop pretending you know better because you played classic and found it super easy compared to retail because back then, no joke, it was mindblowing if you had to move out of fire or spread and stack at the right time 30 out 40 were too dumb to do that without red text and a meme quip telling them what to do.
anon you are not making a good case for yourself or the other mouthbreathing retards who need mods to tell them to not step in the bad.
t. TBC fag
I'm not making a case for anything retard, I'm just telling how it was.
then WoW was truly doomed from the beginning
Well yeah, thanks to Tigole. TBC was when it first really became noticeable though as they went out of their way to make the 60-69 content just pure fucking ass complete with the ugliest possible quest reward gear (yeah that was not in fact a vanilla meme, their gear tended to have okay cohesion unlike TBC's clownsuits).
>TBC was when it first really became noticeable though as they went out of their way to make the 60-69 content just pure fucking ass complete with the ugliest possible quest reward gear
ok so i really wasn't just misremembering how god awful TBC questing was compared to vanilla and wrath
No it was everything bad about vanilla questing but on steroids.
>Kill 20 mobs? How about 40?
>collect 10 bear asses? How about 20?
>Bear ass drop rate of 50% How about alien bear ass for 30%?
>Yes you need a group of 10 for this area of the map
>bear ass drop rate 50%
y u lying bro
You are literally describing vanilla. Every other expansion nerfed and made the content easier.
Biggest problem with tbc were flaying mounts and flaying in general
No, it was the introduction of dailies to grind out required rep to do anything instead of unlocking content through cool quest chains and then offering some minor rewards for completing the rep grind.
hot fucking take but dailies in and of themselves are not bad if and ONLY if they are used for PvP
This. I hate all the literal retards comparing modern day mechanics to vanilla and coming to the conclusion it was easy.
Its easy for us now because the game is not new, we have seen the red circles on ground etc for years.
Players back then didnt know shit because these concepts were new, therefore yes, to them the game was hard.
>Players back then didnt know shit because these concepts were new, therefore yes, to them the game was hard.
the engine is new so its snappy and everyone does 3x the dps, internet connections were shittier too but everything else was the same, your guild was shit, your friends were shit, you were shit but not all of us were madcuzbad
Lmao. Addons existed during vanilla, it was pretty standard to have at least damage meters. You didn't need addons as much at the time, because you could do more with macros, but when the power of macros was reduced, addons took their place.
>implying addons were not standard practice pre-tbc even among shitters who were not even max level
you'd know this if you'd had actually played back then and wasn't spouting hearsay from other zoomies that didn't play.
You played it in your formative years
No I didn't.
I'm 20 so no I didn't, I found classic really fun. Tbc was okay and wrath is kinda dogshit I don't play it
You mean vanilla?
I looked up gameplay footage of current wow and it was the most soulless shit I have ever seen.
>top bar bound to numpad keys
Probably a MMO mouse
he playin that shit withouta mouse bro. Just like in the good old days.
>has never owned an mmo mouse
Retail was always better than classic in launch windows. 1-60 vanilla horde as a total noob on a fresh is worth a pilgrimage.
But why would you ever play a mmo past a few weeks after launch?
All you have left are increasingly demanding failure states and scheduling issues.
Retail is no less fucked, but it retains the illusion of progression for much longer.
I find it fucked and funny that a level 14 needs a dps parser already. If this was FF11 you wouldnt use a parser until endgame.
that's not a parser mate, that's a damage meter. And that's probably his millionth alt already(since he has probably run out of stuff to do) so it comes preinstalled. I get really autistic if my UI on alts doesn't look exactly the same as on my mains. Yes, even the damage meter
>NOOOO you can't monitor your dmg output!!
Why is Ganker like this? It's even worse in FFXIV threads
Why would a level 14 need to care about their damage when hunting boar asses for mankriks wife? The only reason I can think is if to be a whiny annoying shit in party chat like "ughhn ur doing XYZ dmg when u should be doing XYZ damage on your spec" like a fucking cum guzzling nerd in that 4 stam leather belt voice.
It's fun seeing your dps grow while leveling and picking up new items.
You should see that automatically. Why do you need a addon for that.
More like less efficiency. Everyone with DPS charts before the actual hard content acts like a dick and argues with the party because "MUH NUMBERS DONT LIE".
No fucking excuse make a hotkey to hide via lua.
You're wasting your time trying to talk sense to the biggest shitstains in any online community to have ever existed, no I don't mean Brazilians, or Gankerners, I mean WoWfags.
I don't believe for a second that anyone has ever talked shit about your damage numbers while levelling. There is no way that you can trick me into believing in these people like you did yourself. Keep your mental illness to yourself.
>implying recount trannies are not posting their DPS anytime they see a pirate in Deadmines
back when classic launched there was a fuckload of min maxing speed leveling groups of zoomies trying to keep up with twitch streamers, he probably got bullied by one of those and hasn't lived it down yet
>You should see that automatically
Sorry my brain is not capable of accurately monitoring DPS over long time frames
>why level efficiency
It's literally because it's more effort to hide it. Congrats on making yourself mad though.
Why do retards like you think people only turn their mods on for "real" content? You throw them into the mod folder and they are on forever till you disable them manually.
In OPs picture the only addon is the dps meter so your post is retarded.
uhm ackshually hes using recount, questie, atlas loot and what i assume to be a totem addon NOOB
Do retards love having unit frames clog your fucking screen? This is Classic Era fucker, screen real estate is a premium on CRTs.
>Why would a level 14 need to care about their damage when hunting boar asses for mankriks wife?
It's nice watching it go up. Also, when you get a new spell, you can use it to decide when it is most appropriate to use it.
>it's nice to see irrelevant number go up
Actually brain damaged
>needs a fucking DPS meter to decide how to use his rotation
And confirmed once again
It's not irrelevant - it's the main factor in deciding how quickly you kill things, which is 99% of the gameplay when soloing. It sounds like you're some kind of mong who just gets his "rotation" (lol) from a website or something. This does not work when levelling, because the length of encounters and the number of spells/talents you have available to you is different and constantly changing. So yes, the meter is useful and only an absolute retard would ever claim otherwise. Hope you can get the help you need.
i have good memories playing classic wow with my middle school friends and it makes me feel good to remember a time when i was happy
two main reasons.
1. it was your first MMO and had the biggest impact on you
2. it wasnt afraid of challenge and goals. games today and especially mmos are all about instant gratification (usually) or absolutely soul numbing grind (eastern ones). the problem is that if you are instantly gratified, then you get very little payoff for that gratification, and the game as a whole just fails to enthuse you. and with many eastern mmos, the grind is so atrociously horrendous that only antman mentalities of the slant-eyes can endure it, because they grew up with that grind in their own homes and lives.
>absolutely soul numbing grind (eastern ones)
that's literally what wow is
>the first MMO dumbed down for the masses
>not afraid of challenge and goals
kek, next you're gonna say Halo has a deep skill ceiling
I think hes comparing the game from the begining to now. It definitely had alot less hand holding and you could actually get ur ass handed to you in low level dungeons
>level 1-20, classic wow...
back in actual vanilla me and my friends would just level horde up to 20 then make the trek over to redridge to gank alliance all day, those were the days...
Yesss did this back on Spinebreaker!
Spinebreaker was my OG server, I fucking hated all the server hopping guilds would do, it really pissed me off when everyone just fucked off to another server and it split the groups up.
play turtle wow
No, thank you, I won't wait in the cuck line for 5 minutes to pick up some trash quest item, because a rando pulled out arbitrary respawn timers out off his ass in mangos years ago and every private server copies them.
Yeah I'm gonna GRIEF them and LAUGH and /SPIT and NOOOO WAIT YOU CAN'T TROLL MY CHARACTER BACK STOP DISRUPTING MY GAME EXPERIENCE FUCK I HATE THIS GAME SO MANY TOXIC BITCHES
>shit gets shilled everywhere in every WoW thread
>still less than 2000 players
>he doesn't know
world is like 6x bigger than anything after and it’s a cohesive experience
>Why is WoW classic so much better than retail?
People hate hard content.
frfr no cap so glad i get to skip all those nasty dungeons that you even need cc for sometimes with my boosite so i can play the real hard shit (dps meter management)
>For the Horde!
>Classic, not Vanilla
>he paid a sub fee to play pre-TBC rework talents with Molten Core endgame
Blizzard thought we didn't want it, but we did, and they weren't capable of giving it. Play a vanilla private server instead.
>Play a vanilla private server instead.
everlook is the best one
More like chinalook
Just took a look at their forums and there is chinese everywhere, what the hell.
I kind of want to play around on a vanilla server, what would be a decent one? This one looks fishy.
I prefer tbc in general but its a shame how they butchered the classic release.
>paying blizz for the privelige of playing a solved game from 20 years ago that they go out of their way to actively censor
>start playing WoW again after a 14 year break
>questing in Darkshore
>twilight cultist i'm killing starts calling for his mother
I wasn't ready
I miss when Forsaken were allowed to be dark and evil and started off as Neutral with the other horde races. Added an air of unease with them
why is the forsaken gasing and burning an entire races holy home land acceptable but a single forsaken lobotomizing someone is not
>dude is supposed to be a freak and a creep who did something terrible to someone
>WOW that's TOO TERRIBLE
>lets tone it down to being still terrible, but not SO terrible
this is the gayest thing I have ever read in my life and it can only be possible if you diversity hired some retard who doesn't even like your game or ANY games for that matter, and desires only to change the world at large to be what they think is "right"
I don't even play WoW and this pissed me off.
>people in TBC classic start making weakauras to auto-spit on anyone riding the paid deluxe edition mount
>blizz removes the /spit function and claims they did it to "combat toxicity"
>meanwhile you can still use a whole host of other emotes like /slap or /rude or just call people morons
great job blizz
really fought toxicity there
To be fair /spit hits different
/me spits on [playername]
Yeah that's true. And based, fuck boosties
but nothing really changed, the players just changed their weakauras to do a different emote
hell, you can even just type "/me spits on %t" for pretty much the same effect
>tfw classic era has no sjw shit or body types
either way they forgot or didnt bother but its getting activity again.
>its getting activity again.
90% of the "activity" is just hardcore mode gays who are obsessed with level 10-20 zones and doing them over and over
Not even remotely true. The PvP cluster is far more populated.
that's where all the hardcore gays are
It literally isn't, niggy
I did a dead mines last week as horde at 1 am bro
Peopke are just levelling again and adventuring.
It's a journey to max level over a month or so compared to retail where it's a two day race to max level to sit in the capital to spam LFG addons
Pacing, world, class design. Vanilla WoW is like the 90's right after the soviet union collapsed. People were happy enough the cold war was over to party but not too happy that they started being full-blown degenerate.
It was the best of the old mmo and the best of the new mmo put together at a time when seeing other people online in real time was mind blowing.
Be glad you were there to experience it because it's not happening again in your lifetime.
>Why is classic better than retail
>While playing a shaman
>An ENHANCE shaman
Don't forget that to pick up extra block chance, amour value, dodge and parry
Even actual vanilla players knew enhance needed to be rebuilt to actually work in TBC.
You're the type of player that fucked WoW in the ass. When you started insisting the game is about min-maxing and optimizing your damage rather than just going around, exploring the world and having fun with friends.
>just going around, exploring the world and having fun with friends.
>i have no brain and i must poopsock
And you're a zoomer LARPing about shit you never played pining for nostalia you'll never feel be Ganker jerked off on you over it.
In spite of what
Fags would have you believe, people were seething on the forums then about class balance just like now and in spite of what the 3 tank shamans would have you believe having a third of your talent tree be useless is not good class design.
Retail forums are like twitter, indicative of about 1% of the playerbase and full of misery and gender dysphoria.
People seethed about the way the classes interacted or played, like how boring it was to be the designated buff bitch or how overpowered bubbling was in pvp. It was not even close to the same spreadsheet gayry you get now from people complaining about 5% damage differences.
Most of the complaining about classes in retail is about a lack of utility or bad talent trees.
In Vanilla WoW I personally bitched and moaned about how every skill tree had just fucking traps in it.
Like Balance for druids. If you were a Balance druid you could just go fuck yourself. Same for Enhancer shaman and ret paladin.
Tons of specs were just not fucking viable at all.
That's the one thing they managed to fix over the years. More viable specs. You aren't laughed at any more for playing a cat feral.
Feral is actually an S-tier spec right now in retail
There is a difference between wanting your class and spec to be useful and min/maxing. You'll notice that not wanting the class you play to be useless garbage has been a thing WoW players wanted since always.
And WoW was never about just exploring the world and having fun with friends, it was about reaching max level and getting to the actual content the game had to offer. Which was rather odd at the time, since not only was it almost unheard of to be able to level a character in a reasonable time all on your own in an MMO, but even having content at max level, meaning something other than the level grind, was a concept few MMOs at the time grasped.
There is a reason the game was always considered a casualized theme park MMO from its very start. It's the reason it was so successful in the first place. And what really spelt the end of old WoW was the rise of datamining and the ability to easily proliferate the most obscure information to even the most tech illiterate troglodyte.
Even the memiest specs had a niche in Vanilla WoW, people just whined and kvetched that the niche wasn't what they wanted it to do. Enhance played the long game, patiently keeping up Nightfall procs and putting down Windfury totem for the tank, until they got their Sulfuras and started smashing dicks in PvP (no it wasn't a Warrior weapon Warriors could get two better weapons already in MC with Bonereaver's and OEB)
We literally just did this with Classic WoW and no, meme specs did not have a niche and nobody wanted them. I love you nostalgia fags that have to keep pretending like all of your claims about how good the old game was aren’t false. We’ve done this already. The game is only fun 1-60 and then it’s back to botting and GDKP runs so you can clear the next brain dead raid two minutes faster.
I'm sorry you played an inferior server, anon.
I’m sorry, did Vanilla WoW suddenly lose all of its magic when it had patch 12.0? How far back should we move the goal posts before it’s “real” Vanilla WoW? When we get all the way back to vanilla beta and people still don’t play the way you want them to will you admit you’re fucking stupid?
Anyone still paying Blizzard money after WoD is too brainrotted to trust for a remotely stable server experience, simple as. Vanilla was already done better before and after Classic hit, with better communities that didn't discriminate specs as long as you put the effort in on them, and actual rolling patch updates to classes in line with the content currently offered at max, not fucking pre-TBC talents that might as well add +3 levels
So then why don’t you go enjoy playing on those servers instead of getting angry that the majority of people don’t want to play with you?
I am playing those servers, I am enjoying them, and I am glad that enough but not too many people play on them. However, I also pity those who eat retail's shit and think that's all there is to it.
wod was nice, the first raid was cool imo. i actually enjoyed the garrisons and i made so much gold from them that i was able to get a swift spectral tiger and loads of other stuff
Raiding was really good in WoD but literally everything else sucked
I disagree. It had pretty good dungeons and it was really fun running them with the special items from the inn quests. The questing experience is the best WoW ever had, which isn't saying much, and the world design was solid. The real problem was that due to Blizzard's complete incompetence there wasn't enough content to go around and the plot was retarded as usual.
We all know what was wrong with WoD but the base gameplay wasn't irreparably fucked like in Legion and Blackrock Foundry is easily a top 5 of all time raid
every single spec in every single iteration of wow has had useless talents you dumb moron
Way to miss the obvious point, retard.
And yet enhancement has the singular distinction of being the only spec in history with multiple dedicated tanking talents and spells without having the ability to tank.
It's just bad design from an aborted idea they couldn't completely clean up before launch that was immediately corrected in TBC, the only reason we're having an argument is because coping nostcultists that never actually played the real vanilla can't admit anything about it was bad.
>And yet enhancement has the singular distinction of being the only spec in history with multiple dedicated tanking talents and spells without having the ability to tank.
Prot Paladin worked exactly the same way in Vanilla though, serviceable enough dungeon tank with too many drawbacks to hash it in raids.
every class that relies on white damage is busted in vanilla
tbc was fucking wild. I have done kara where main tank was enha shaman and another one where mt was hunter
>is wow good?
I think once games become a sort of routine they lose everything that makes them fun. Vanilla WoW was great because nobody had any idea what the fuck they were doing, everybody was exploring the world together and figuring shit out. There were no quest markers and even thottbot and WoWhead were not around in the very early days. You had to discover shit by yourself and talk to people and ask for direction.
>thottbot and WoWhead were not around in the very early days
You mean like during the beta?
Thottbot was around, just a lot of the information was incomplete or wrong, so you still had to ask around and talk to people about quests.
Because it's from an era before diversity hires
I would have liked classic if they shook it up a bit. There's only so many times I can play vanilla.
WoW was also the first MMO that wasn't competely janky and ass to play, while it had it's problems it was technologically lightyears ahead of it's competition.
Yep. To this very fucking day no MMO captures basic movement and jumping, as well as GCD-based gameplay as well as WoW. They're all sticky, sloggy, their jumping is just a shitty animation, the GCDs are too slow, the animations don't mesh together in combat or some combination.
Why is Star Wars Galaxies so much better than WoW
Based. I miss my Ithorian cook like you wouldn't believe.
Me and a friend I had online made our own business in that game and felt really fun. It was an interesting game for a little bit.
It doesn't have the baggage of 7 shitty expansions cluttering up the game with dead content and dumb features, it's a lot more cohesive and manageable. Still a shitty game though, way too grindy.
You can tell this place is crawling with absolute shitters that fear any kind of expository addon because they are keyboard mashing trash that needs to cope by saying dps meter bad and for trannies.
>he thinks you need a DPS addon to keep track of your 2 button rotation
This is my favourite shitter arguement, that I need the dps meter to do my rotation right.
Not only does it not make sense it shows how oblivious you carebears are ro competition or just liking to watch and monitor whats going on and cannot fathom doing so without wanting to berate others.
get a job and move out of moms basement
I have a job and haven't lived at home for 18 years.
But keep projecting your boogeymen about players that aren't complete shit.
>it shows how oblivious you carebears are ro competition
WoW is not and has never been a competitive game.
>He never raced his dps bros during boss encounters
>it shows how oblivious you carebears are ro competition
this person plays WoW classic for the pvp lol out loud
>they are keyboard turning trash
any iteration of WoW is casual babby shit, and anyone who subscribed helped kill the golden age of vidya. fuck zoomers
tfw no tauren wife
you don’t need a dps meter while leveling but people leave it on anyway
apparently hardcore is now the new fad. do people really enjoy it? every upcoming som will be shit.
It's a nice way to flip your perception of levelling content after getting enough characters to 60, suddenly shit like that limited supply green-quality vendor boots or the guaranteed 6-slot bag from a quest become godsends that spike your dopamine harder than a Mythic+++++++++ drop.
I would only play it on private servers that palpably reward the effort though like Duskhaven, Ascension or Turtle WoW, it's a lot of work especially after wiping a few times to be doing just for brownie points, the community isn't really going to care that you made it after the initial wave of GRATZes
Blizz ain't doing SOM anymore, wasn't popular enough since the changes were in the raids.
The content for classic is in the leveling, not the end game.
its a meme until they release actual hardcore severs imo, right now you have to follow some autists rule book to the T or you're not a heckin valid hardcore
People like to pretend Blizzard is the same company, almost everyone has been replaced with modern day woke diversity hires.
Blizzard has morphed into the thing you hate the most in the world, and there is no going back to how it was.
I know many wow players are taking refuge in classic, it won't last. They will come for that too.
>They will come for that too.
You say that like they already didn't do everything in their power to mismanage it, praying the players would interpret their ineptitude as Vanilla never being good. They can't overtly shut it down or people will just flock to private servers.
Classic is nothing like vanilla now. It has WoW tokens and level boosts. Not to mention the economies of the various servers are extremely inflated due to bots, icing out most normal players and forcing them into a situation where buying a WoW token is the only way they can keep up.
Also, I stopped supporting companies that hate me, especially entertainment companies. My life has improved greatly as a result, and I have more spending money to give to companies that don't spit on me every chance they get.
Someone post the cringe dragonflight ad.
>Classic is nothing like vanilla now. It has WoW tokens and level boosts. Not to mention the economies of the various servers are extremely inflated due to bots, icing out most normal players and forcing them into a situation where buying a WoW token is the only way they can keep up.
And to make matters worse there aren't any Vanilla private servers anymore, because what's the point when Classic exists.
How's Season of Mastery? Never played it.
paid server transfer was the final nail in the coffin for me....
Do they still have the Centaur leader Barrak where you can loot his head for a quest Barrak's Head? I used to carry this item in my inventory and during his "Presidency" I'd flash in the chat. They removed the item and the NPC(I think) a few months after. What a bunch of spineless communist cock suckers blizzard were.
remember that these are the same nu devs that broke the game due to trying to implement 10,000 new chat filters at the same time
I wish people didnt forget about The Alliance
>tfw no wotlk server with retail client models/animations/player customization
In 2005 I was 15 and flew to Syracuse NY to visit my guild master. She basically stole my money and made me me finger her and I couldn't get hard because she smelled bad. 6/10 would not do again. I told my mom I was going to a gaming convention
in 2007 my quake clan(basically just group of friends) used to go to lans and get spun on dexedrine and oxycontin
Why were so many female MMO players nasty femcel pedophiles back in the day?
There's loads of them on FF14 too, loads of guys play the game with the sole purpose of getting some blue haired unwashed axe-wound.
No there isn't. I'm not talking about le ebil pink hair femoid, I'm talking about the divorced middle-aged trailer-dwelling tauren druids and dwarf priests with 5 kids and an unstoppable urge to rape young boys. They were absoulutely everywhere in old WoW and FFXI.
>middle-aged trailer-dwelling tauren druids
god, it was always this. it was even like this in classic.
I'm not sure. She was around 40 at the time, but much uglier in person. She basically held me hostage for 3 days because she spent all my money day one and I didn't have money for a cab to the airport. She was very stinky but I did what I had to so I could get home
I ended up sneaking away and having my mom wire me money through western union, pretty sure she was going to kidnap me. It was a whole thing too cause I called for a cab and it didn't come and I was afraid to miss my flight, so I called another one and they both showed up and the first one was an angry Black who demanded he be paid for coming out. I ended up getting to the airport 2 days early and lived on Fritos and the water fountain. It was a different time back then. I remember telling everyone in the guild what happened when I got home and she must have deleted her account cause I never saw Miiarose again. That's my story.
theme park mmos dont work when you level scale them. I dont know whose retarded idea that was as if the years of quests and expansions are worth going through in 2023 the year of our lord
It's not that good, but it's really comfy and has soul. Also, let's be honest, nostalgia.
But even deeply flawed, it's still leagues bettre than what retail has to offer.
Why isn't there an MMO that requires skill? The solution to every problem is simply investing more time.
RPGs are number games. If you want an MMO with action combat, play Rust or something.
>Why isn't there an MMO that requires skill?
There is that in WoW though. It's called arena and mythic raiding and it's a big part of what ultimately destroyed the game. Turns out pandering to try-hards is the worst thing you can do when making an mmorpg.
it's a damn shame there really isn't something for everyone in WoW anymore. world PvP has been a joke longer than it hasn't, questing is abysmal, grouping is abysmal if you don't have a discord, RP of any kind is fucking laughable and ERP is the creepiest and most low effort shit imaginable, and you can't be any kind of an impish trickster anymore because of how fragile everyone's ego is.
i'm glad i dropped all that shit mid way through legion, yeah it took me that long.
Because all of those niches are better served by other games now. World PvP was good for the first month of classic and then sucked. You can try and articulate what’s wrong with WoW all you want but the truth is that the industry has changed, players have changed, and the game has had to adapt to the ever changing landscape. The only thing not changing is you.
>Because all of those niches are better served by other games now.
yeah, final fantasy 14, except the world pvp
Right, so why is that a problem again? Why does WoW have to be the best at everything instead of being the best at some things?
>so why is that a problem again?
because it is a travesty watching WoW shuffle on like a zombie when it used to be THE game everyone played. the problem is that the game has systematically removed every feature that made it fun in favor of catering to literal addicts
that is why it's a problem, bro.
This is peak delusion. Nothing stays on top forever and expecting it to is mentally ill. WoW not being THE game anymore is not a real problem.
>designed for addicts
This is so completely untrue it’s wild that you could actually believe it. The game, right now today, has no forever grinds. Any grind it does have is entirely optional and not linked to power. You are free to do as much or as little endgame content as you want and you are not punished for not logging in every day. The older game that you pine for was closer to being made for addicts than Dragonflight is.
>The older game that you pine for was closer to being made for addicts than Dragonflight is.
yeah, no. it's fine to be argumentative but don't lie to me.
>WoW not being THE game anymore is not a real problem.
it is for a number of reasons, chief among them being that no MMO even attempts to have netcode as good or controls as tight as WoW
I’m not lying to you. You’re just deluded and refuse to accept reality that retail WoW, as of DF, is not actually a bad game designed for daily logins anymore. The old versions of the game were absolutely more catering to addicts and I don’t understand how you can’t see that since everything either took way longer, thus necessitating logging in more often to make progress. Your problems with the game exist only in your head.
moron you cannot gaslight me into believing what you want me to believe.
>retail WoW, as of DF, is not actually a bad game designed for daily logins anymore.
and this, again, is one of the biggest fucking lies you have told me thus far.
You keep saying that I’m lying but you’re not explaining how it’s a lie. I know you want to believe that you’re not the problem here but you are. There isn’t anything WoW could do to bring you back because your issue is emotional. Most of the people in this thread haven’t played retail in forever and just parrot what other people say. Most people in this thread have no actual clue what the real problems with retail are and are just parroting what others have said that sounds good to them. There are legitimate reasons to not like WoW and not like DF but they aren’t in this thread.
>think about old wow from time to time
>WC III even
>murmur "I was there 3000 years ago" to myself every single time
I miss it and always will. The classic relaunch capture a bit of the essence but the world moved on and it will never be the same.
It's such a bad game but it still gives me a certain feeling. I'll never play it again but I still get tingles when I think of the Undercity drum music for example
vanilla wow is literally the greatest video game ever made the only people who disagree are those who missed out
Because it's challenge Vs reward ratio is perfect, OP. It filters out the scrubs.
Modern games reward you too easily.
>Challenge vs reward ratio is perfect.
Are you fucking retarded? Like actually?
>Has to get 4 hooves
>has to kill 20 Zhevras for it
>Raid bosses that barely have any abilities but are merely difficult because there's FUCK ALL in terms of gear drops and people didn't know what the fuck they were doing pre guides.
>Ragnaros has a knockback, can become invulnerable and summon a bunch of ads to the fight. Uuuuh scary!
>You only ever die do rag because people (specially tanks) are not geared enough, meaning the fight takes a bit longer and healers run out of mana, which means people start slowly dying attrition style
>Mage rotation at rag consists of spamming frostbolt until out of mana, then using wand until frostbolt is good to go again.
>40 man boss then proceeds to drop 2 or 3 items.
Great fucking ratio. Perfect design.
Vanilla was fucking retarded. NOTHING in there was challenging, it was just tedious.
Turns out, if you get rid of any tedium and you keep rewarding players every step with gear, the game becomes very convenient, but also a soulless treadmill where nothing feels earned or valuable anymore. Nothing feels more boring to me than a modern "well balanced" mmo like retail WoW where leveling is literally just considered an inconvenience where the devs themselves want to incentivise the player to just pay real life money to skip the whole process. I take killing zhevras in the Barrens for 2 hours to get their 4 hooves all day over that.
>nothing feels earned or valuable anymore in retail
Post your mythic raid logs lol
lmao, I haven't played retail WoW since cata.
So you have no idea what you’re talking about it and are going off of outdated information from over a decade ago? Thanks for being a retard I guess.
You made his point for him. If the only way you can get any satisfaction from an mmo is from running the same fucking dungeon with faggy modifiers then your game failed at even pretending to not be a skinnerbox. That's what made vanilla work, shit as the moment to moment gameplay was everything you did had more weight. Gear upgrades made huge differences and sometimes an item would last you dozens of levels, even to the level cap in some cases. Some content required you to actually have other players involved that wasn't aoeing dungeons. Now in retail all you have left is a scaled world that never changes and you get weaker as you level, the only relevant content being developed being the treadmill endgame. The fact you think saying "HURR POST MYTHIC LOGS" is an actual retort and not some cringe bullshit leads me to believe that you're both a zoomer and a queer and that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
>the moment to moment gameplay of your level 17 warrior auto attacking a mob and missing three times in a row and dying is more compelling than Mythic raids and Mythic+
yes. I can say with 100% certainty that me doing the elite quests in Redridge with some rag-tag group of other idiots who kept dying to those ogre mages was a far more memorable and ultimately compelling experience than any mythic raid could ever be. I don't give a shit about overly complex boss mechanics. I'm not playing mmorpgs to do instanced rhythm game challenges.
It's good that you at least admitted you're a drooling retard who doesn't care for challenging gameplay. I commend you for your honesty
No, he's right. You have no idea what you want.
>where the only challenge is to carry mentally challenged people
if I want a challenge I would play single player games or pvp games bro, mmos are for chilling with your bros
You have shit taste.
I don't have a single good memory of leveling and I've played WoW off and on since 2005.
>tried to run around in retail on free trial
>its just braindead click on mob he die
>they hated Jesus because he told them the truth
Sounds like you actually had fun.
You didn't unlock dual wielding until level 20 as a warrior. You weren't missing 75% of your auto attacks and dying to everything before that.
>blinded by nostalgia
We literally just did this in 2019 you fucking retard. Solo leveling as a warrior is notoriously difficult for exactly the reasons the anon said.
I'm not talking about dual-wielding. Missing just two auto attacks on a mob while it crits you repeatedly could mean death if you were a warrior with a slow two-hander.
Yeah anon, getting an item in classic feels super earned. I definitely felt like I earned it when I bought cheap gold through RMT and then did GDKP runs to buy whatever gear I needed so I could finish the brain dead easy raid two minutes faster! That feels much more earned than the high M+ rating that I had to actively improve as a player to get. Or the mythic raid boss kills that I needed to push myself as a player to get. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Also, we’ve had instances where lower item level gear has been desired and used through multiple tiers in retail, and everyone fucking hates it. Nobody liked trying to farm arcanocrystal in legion and everyone is worried right now about having to farm base item level trinkets from the dungeons rotating out next patch because of how good some of the trinkets are. You literally have no idea what you’re talking about, are arguing completely from nostalgia, and were probably always just a bad player.
>I definitely felt like I earned it when I bought cheap gold through RMT and then did GDKP runs to buy whatever gear I needed
You're saying that as if that wasn't a problem on retail, which has sanctioned it by introducing tokens. The idea behind Classic was sound but Blizzard fucked up phenomenally with their short-sighted greed, paid transfers being the chief offender here.
Doesn't matter to me anyway, I'm quitting (for good) even though I have an interest in giving HC a shot.
Boosting IS a problem in retail but boosting is the META in classic. That’s the difference. I could absolutely RMT my way to cutting edge but it’s prohibitively expensive to do so and is something I have to go out of my way to do. In classic, RMT to GDKP is the meta. It’s what everyone does because it’s cheap and easy and nobody wants to “earn” the loot. They just want to kill the bosses faster.
Yep, that's why I played on the fresh server (we actually bullied GDKPs off the server except for one or two private clubs). It actually felt like an MMO, for the first 3-4 months at least
So, instead of playing a game that caters better to what you want you would prefer to bully and coerce people to do what you want, and still ultimately fail after a few months anyway? Sounds mentally ill. Just go play another game.
One, these people could play on literally any other Classic server or retail if they need their P2W mechanics. Two, yeah it was "bullying" in the same sense pushing drug dealers off the streets is
And who appointed you into the position that gave you the authority to do this?
>getting an item in classic feels super earned.
You never played vanilla, why are you acting like classic and vanilla are the same?
>continues to reaffirm the point that he was trying to rebut over how the game is shit because they are focusing on just forcing players to run the same dungeons over and over again.
You have to be mentally ill. You actually are a chud, aren't you?
These two gays are perfect examples of why you should never listen to your audience.
>It was nostalgia, I know because I played classic, where everyone played it meta, and was actually nothing like vanilla.
You keep reinforcing why no one should take you seriously.
You just admitted you actually enjoyed doing elite quests with retards who can't play the game, lol. Sounds like you're the mentally ill chud
>Having content in the game world that encourages you to party with other players
>not in MY MMO!!
Yeah, raids and dungeons exist in every modern MMO. Ejaculating over the thrilling experience of five retards taking an hour to kill 30 elite ogres that just auto attack really hard might be thrilling to an autistic loser like you, but video games have moved on since 2004
>you are stupid for not liking the modern auto-loot treadmill
I think you need a better argument than that.
Fuck off and stop blaming me for your incompetence.
No, you’re the mentally ill retard anon. What you liked about Vanilla was only possible because everyone was retarded and didn’t know how to play. Now you’re upset that the modern game is designed around people that know how to play. It’s not my fault that you’re stupid and can’t move on from 20 years ago. You can never go back just like you can never be a woman.
People played the game for lots of reasons during Vanilla. Now in retail they have hyper-focused the design of the game on a very small subset, alienating large portions of their user base.
Keep acting like you know what you are talking about, it just keeps making you look like an even bigger idiot.
Ah, I understand now. Modern MMOs cater their endgame towards skilled players who can press more than 1 button. No wonder you're horny for vanilla, a game that was designed for mouthbreathers and children and had a skill ceiling as tiny as your micropenis.
Low skill ceiling is absolutely acceptable. MMOs are not a hard genre and if you're looking for hard gameplay, you should play something else.
You mean the skilled players still playing the game to where they want to press even less buttons?
At a time, in WoW history, where you need to manage the least amount of shit possible. Where almost all classes are
>some kind of buff on 2 min CD
You keep making yourself look like an even bigger idiot. You should just got back to bitching about people ruining your key on blizzard's forums.
I can see why you would believe that if you played the last three expansions. The most recent one actually has very popular casual world content that gives good rewards and the next patch is improving the world content the most. Obviously, you’re not going to believe this to be the case because you have no rational reason to do so after the travesty of WoD -> SL. Even with the improvements though you will never get back what Vanilla had because of the market is just too big and the things Vanilla did well are just better served in other games or on actual social media.
Fair enough on your points, but I liked vanilla because it did all of those things. I did pick up SL to try to see if modern WoW was still worth anything, and I didn't care for mythics or needing to run a meta spec to do arena.
That isn't even touching on the outright distaste the company has for its playerbase.
I also gave Classic a try and got to 60, but it was different. There were a lot of minor changes, but the major one is everyone played Classic like they played retail, which just made classic a slightly better retail, getting persistently worse due to a toxic community and unrestricted botting.
But you can’t get the 2004 mindset back. Every game that tries to be like Vanilla will become like Retail very quickly after launch. It happens with literally every game. It’s just going to get solved, a meta will form, and people will get toxic about it. That’s just how games are now. We can’t go back.
Is this how boomers feel about the seventies?
Yes. People’s belief that we can ever go back to the mindset of Vanilla WoW is exactly like how Boomers think of the 70s.
I like to think there will at one point be a game that can recapture that feeling, but until then I will just bounce between games.
I jump onto private servers for other MMOs every so often to see if I can get a similar feeling.
Riot's thing has me cautiously optimistic. Although, I'm still almost certain the next big "cultural phenomenon" MMO will be VR.
You probably won’t find it in MMOs but you can in other games. Elden Ring on launch gave me the same kind of feeling as Vanilla did in 2004. FFXIVs MSQ did for awhile too. It’s just a byproduct of getting older and playing more games. You can’t go back to when you were younger. You can’t go back to the person you were. All you can do is move forward and try to see the good in the present and appreciate the good from the past. By looking at how classic WoW has played out it’s very clear to me that peoples primary motivation to play hasn’t been to rekindle 2004, but to go back to a time when they were younger with all of their knowledge and “redo things”. Pretty much everyone I know that played classic cared more about doing things the right way over pretending it was 2004 again.
Yeah. I think we will need to see a complete decline in the MMO market before we start seeing another similar again.
I can't wait for the rise of the sandbox mmo again. but we will need to wait until the WoW themepark model has been sucked dry.
I have been trying to find other games to fill that itch, and I think I will give Elden Ring a try.
The sandbox MMO has been replaced by survival crafting MMOs unfortunately.
>But you can’t get the 2004 mindset back. Every game that tries to be like Vanilla will become like Retail very quickly after launch. It happens with literally every game. It’s just going to get solved, a meta will form, and people will get toxic about it. That’s just how games are now. We can’t go back.
Unfortunately this is the truth. Classic WoW never felt like Vanilla and it's mostly the playerbase's fault. Almost immediately you had a significant amount of people speed leveling in dungeons to max level. I guess if all you care about is endgame that's fine but nobody did this in vanilla and immediately skipping a significant majority of the game's content is pretty silly. Then you had the pre-raid BiS collecting, which wasn't something people did in Vanilla and even though it made the game easier because everyone was doing it, it was something different and fun about Classic. Then you had the world buff meta which was tedious and awful. Certain areas with rare materials such as devilsaur leather being controlled by colluding guilds, etc. You also had the private server spergs who spent the previous 10 years playing fresh servers over and over again.
>designed around people that know how to play
>the leveling content is so dumbed down you can run around and aoe down mobs like in a korean mmo
You probably couldnt beat 2 vanilla mobs at the same time. This gaslighting gayry is getting tiresome.
>the leveling content
Nobody gives a fuck about leveling content anymore. Get over it and move on. Being able to fight two mobs at once in 2004 isn’t some god gamer accomplishment.
>Nobody gives a fuck about leveling content anymore. Get over it and move on.
UNGA BUNGA GRUG NEED INSTANT GRATIFICATION OOGA BOOGA
I accept your concession
Do you? Blizzard isn’t responsible for players in general becoming more focused on min/maxing. Seems like you’re mad the world changed and want to blame Blizzard for it.
The leveling is the only good thing about wow. And the pvp.
More and more people realize this, thats why fresh servers are a meme. While leveling its a fun experience with an alive world. When you get to max the shitty gear grind starts.
the pvp is awful lmao. have fun getting kited to death on a paladin because you have no gap closer or slow. have fun getting stunlocked by a rogue or a mage polymorphing you and mounting and running away. pvp in wow was always shit
It is a very primordial and influential pvp action RPG, they added various useable items and trinkets to addres these frustration imbalance concerns, like rank 2 trinket, iron grenade or net if you are getting kited... but then in TBC they removed most of them though they also added a PVP system based on ratings and not competitive grinding.
thats the thing pvp wasnt based on skill at all. just being an OP class and buying consumable items such as nets and stuns.
That's true but there also is a lot of room for reads and fast reactions compared to other action rpgs at the time.
All the various trinket and item effects were pure soul and fun. Even abilities that seem useless 99% of the time sometimes worked wonders.
TBC pvp was great too although in a different way.
There is nothing left from that in the current wow.
The amount of people that actually like leveling on fresh servers are an insignificant population of players.
back everyone was fucking trash at the game, people are more adept and better at videogames since it's not their first rodeo, people were clearing molten core in green gear in 45 minutes
Yes thats actually what I already said in a different post. Still though, overall world danger level is a comoletely separate thing from raid difficulty. Retailfags would struggle with vanilla-style mobs, the amount of mana regen etc. I remember that in Cata mana already became an infinite resource.
No they wouldn’t and they didn’t when they played classic. Classic is not a hard game. WoW was never a hard game you’re just so dogshit bad at video games STILL that you think fighting random mobs while leveling was some kind of skill challenge on the same level as anything in retails endgamet4tnh.
But leveling IS an inconvenience, no matter how you slice it. The difference was: Vanilla WoW had no real endgame content prepared, so a lot of the focus was on the leveling. Now over the years WoW has added actual end-game activities that you can do, so the focus shifted toward that. That's not inherently bad. I'd take a selection of endgame activities over a drawn out leveling process any day.
Like, look at Diablo 3 right now. it's all in the endgame, would that game be better if you needed 10 days to reach 70?
>you keep rewarding players every step with gear.
Well, yes and no. Yes you get more gear rewards, but they make sense. You always get some reward, which is GREAT, and what you get is heavily tied to the difficulty of the content. You can do daily quests, or dungeons for "meh" rewards, or you can get into Mythic Plus for better rewards. And then Mythic tier raiding rewards the best gear the fastest.
And both Mythic raids and M+ dungeons are more challenging content then anything ever produced in vanilla, where like I said the main issue was almost always lack of gear.
No, that's the whole point. Leveling in vanilla was not just aan inconvenience you had to do before endgame, for the vast majority of players, leveling WAS the game. That's all of my best WoW memories. Questing in Westfall and Redridge Mountains for the first time. Doing Deadmines and Wailing Caverns. Low level open world PVP in Hillsbrad Foothills. Grinding Scarlet Monastery for an unreasonable amount just so I could get those stupid blue items I'd replace 10 levels later. Grinding gold for my first mount. Spending the entire night and early morning questing with friends in the Barrens until the sun starts coming up in game. When I played vanilla in 2005, I didn't think of leveling as something I had to get through as quickly as possible so I can finally start raiding, in fact, I ended up hardly raiding at all in vanilla and I spent months just getting one character ready for MC.
The scarlet set with the raging berserker helm and herods shoulders was a status symbol.
>Leveling in vanilla was not just aan inconvenience you had to do before endgame
Leveling WAS the game, which was a detriment. Like I said they had no actual endgame. Leveling was all they had. If they had made leveling fast(er), people would have just dinged 60 and gone "Well, what the fuck do I do now?" Keep in mind that leveling in WoW was itself made easier from what leveling used to be in MMOs before (a pure fucking nightmare). So what we are seeing now as "the harder leveling" used to be "the easier leveling" The goal back then was already "Leveling shouldn't be so tedious".
Also: The rest of your post is literally just nostalgia. And don't get me wrong, I have nostalgia for all that shit too, but that doesn't mean it was the pinnacle of game design. No, quite often it was pants on head retarded.
And Hillsbrad PvP? That kinda existed early on but you know what really started that open world PvP shit? The fact that you just had nothing else to grind honor. They introduced Battle Grounds that you had to queue up for in Person and it could take HOURS to get into them. So what did people do who needed the kills? They started killing whatever was in the region. Every PvPer I knew in Vanilla was bitching and moaning about having to do open world PvP when they just wanted to get in the fucking battle ground. And now people look back on it, and somehow have twisted it into "oh yeah, Open world PvP was great" nah man at the time so many players hated it.
>Leveling WAS the game, which was a detriment.
people like you do not deserve to touch the MMO genre.
No, people like you are the problem. We’ve done classic WoW three times now and all three times people rush through leveling to get to endgame. You’re completely blinded by nostalgia and fail to realize that people know how to play games in 2023. The only reason leveling was a journey back then was because MMOs were still a relatively untapped market and nobody knew what they were doing. Games, players, and the industry have evolved and you can see how your design ideas don’t work in classic WoW from its launch in 2019 to the WotLK relaunch today.
>Posts no counter argument.
Alright bro, what was the wealth of endgame content classic had?
Well you didn't really get strong power increases in vanilla. (depending on class)
>Alright bro, what was the wealth of endgame content classic had?
There wasn't one. This just feeds further into my assessment of "Mongoloid". Only a mentally ill person plays a video game so that they can blast through the entire levelling process, then add the video game to their weekly schedule as if it's a second job so that they can get a chance at getting better gear... which is then only used to clear the same content again the next week but slightly faster. This mentality is what has produced nu-WoW, and nu-WoW is absolute dogshit.
Or they blast through leveling to progress on the raid and grind keys with their bros. Because it’s a social activity. Everybody that raids or does keys does so because they play with a group of people and find hanging out with them while playing the game to be enjoyable.
Fuck you. I was here first.
>Leveling WAS the game, which was a detriment
This is wrong though. Leveling is the funnest part of an RPG if the power increases from it is done correctly and feels good.
No, the endgame where you get tested on the full suite of mechanics and the game can take off the kid gloves is better. That's besides the point, anyway, because the way WoW and other MMOs treats leveling is completely ass backwards. You should level as a byproduct of playing the game, not level as a primary goal.
>Leveling WAS the game, which was a detriment.
>Leveling WAS the game, which was a detriment.
No moron, not at all.
WORLD of warcraft not Dungeons of warcraft
Life cycle of WoW
>vocal minority (you, in this case) begins complaining
>Blizzard thinks their entire playerbase consists of this vocal minority
>begins designing game around vocal minority
Exact same thing happened to the RTS genre. I know you think this is impossible, but the forum opinions and shit you were reading in vanilla were not at all indicative of the playerbase as a whole. The overwhelming majority of vanilla WoW players didn't raid and sure as fuck didn't honor grind.
bro what? The "leveling needs to be snail paced hardcore bullshit" is the tiniest minorities in the history of tiny monorities.
Plus: When they made leveling more casual, the game EXPLODED to the highest subscriber number in the history of the game, so CLEARLY the game didn't fucking die from making the leveling too casual.
>Same happened to the RTS genre
Are you double moron implying RTS died because it got too casual and nobody wanted it any more? That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
RTS died, because it is NOT casual. It is extremely difficult to get really good at RTS, one of the most complicated genres of multiplayer games to get into. Which in turn meant that it was not hugely profitable to make an RTS, because you had to both: appeal to a wide market, but also: be more popular than Starcraft. Good fucking luck, you disingenuous fuck.
Making games accessible to casuals is what SAVES games, not what kills them you absolute dumbfuck sister fucking retard.
Retails biggest problem today is how inaccessible the endgame is to casuals tbh
You said that the game was made worse because it was focused on levelling rather than endgame content.
>Leveling WAS the game, which was a detriment. Like I said they had no actual endgame. Leveling was all they had.
I was saying that that was all the majority of the players cared about, and WoW's population began its steep decline when they started spending inordinate time on hardcore endgame stuff and, to complement that, changed the leveling to a hypercasual tutorial experience. The RTS analogy is that after the Starcraft esports boom, RTS developers assumed that their entire audience was made up of 1v1 ranked guys and began designing their games around that. The majority of the RTS audience plays campaign and fucks around in custom games, not 1v1, hence the genre crashed immediately after its most successful game came out.
It’s all they cared about because people sucked ass at video games back then, had shit connections, and generally struggled to even hit level cap. The industry is much bigger now and players are orders of magnitude better today. Vanilla was a product of its time it just doesn’t work right in the modern world because it’s been completely solved. You can’t close Pandora’s box.
>You can’t close Pandora’s box.
what so no video game can ever again include leveling up by doing quests and progressing your character because we did that in vanilla wow?
why do people treat mmo leveling like it’s some ancient evil
>why do people treat mmo leveling like it’s some ancient evil
Because it's complete fucking anus and has been since day one. Most MMOs misunderstand the purpose of leveling.
You've proven my point. Classic WoW was about doing every quest, taking your time and exploring.
And the vast majority of players don’t give a fuck and would rather play a single player RPG for that experience.
well yeah, that's why the mmorpg genre is largely dead these days.
i wonder if the term MSORPG will ever take off
So how is this a WoW problem when the majority of players just aren’t interested in the genre anymore? Why should WoW cater to players that are better served elsewhere instead of catering to the players that enjoy what it has to offer?
they aren't interested in the genre anymore because the genre no longer is what they once fell in love with in the first place. Retail WoW is completely unrecognizable in its design philosophy to vanilla and the only multiplayer aspect is raiding and arena, which is all done in instanced zones. WoW went from a massive multiplayer online RPG to a tiny instanced multiplayer online RPG.
They aren’t interested because other things replaced the novelty features of WoW and the industry and player desires have changed over 20 years, brainlet. You can go play vanilla private servers or classic WoW if you want and you’ll see that none of those players actually care about the things you think and are just playing the old version the same way people play retail, just with easier rotations and easier content.
Wrong. The desires didnt change, they themselves dumbed down the game, staying players got used to it and new retards came to play. The game has been turned into dogshit gradually by blizzard themselves. The cause and effect is clear to anyone who has played the game.
Furthermore, raids have never been hard ever. Its preprogrammed shit and gear checks.
>hey guys classic WoW is coming we can relive 2004!
>nah we are just gonna min/max and meta game the fuck out of it and destroy it
>blizzard did this
The fact that classic wow turned out the way that it did proves that desires in the general gaming audience have changed.
I honestly blame streamers, fucking gays sweating their balls off 24/7 trying to bring in the most kids with their parents credit cards for donations.
no, not really, streamers only bring the retarded bandwagon community that literally does not play the game or just plays it to carry the streamer
it's a fact that the majority of people playing games now minmax thanks to the amount of information, content, guides, discords there are, since basically every gay is running "le most optimized build" and leaving you in the dust, people feel obliged to also min max
Well why would you willfully be shit? I don’t understand what these nostalgia fags actually think is going to happen. What, everyone’s just gonna decide “yup I want to be a shitter” and we go back to 2004 where nobody knew how to play?
I think you confuse being an inbreed retard with opting to play what you find fun, a lot of vanilla stuff is viable but maybe not optimal, the problem when you go for the meta route is that all playstyles are a copypaste and fucking boring
It doesn’t matter if it’s technically viable if the community perception is that it’s not. Technically literally everything is viable in retail but I’m still not taking non-meta class over a meta class if I can help it
Do you know how to read? Yes, the desires changed AFTER blizzshit dumbed down the game. The whole industry has gradually been turned to shit and people get dumber because of it.
Pserver players werent minmaxing fags ~5 years ago. This shit has peaked recently. And it makes sense - you are bound to minmax ehen you play the same game over and over again.
>Pserver players werent minmaxing fags ~5 years ago.
>you are bound to minmax ehen you play the same game over and over again
This is why I propose the inevitable vanilla+ to be a sort of "master quest". Elongate the levelling experience but pad it out with new quests and zones, bump the level cap to 70, change stats around, move the occasional non-essential location and NPC, change quest rewards, limit addon usage etc. There are plenty of ways they (or another studio) could create a similar player experience to base World of Warcraft. The "doomers" populating every vanilla thread need to get a grip.
If that's what classic WoW was about I am fully justified in calling it one of the worst games I've ever played. Questing was the fucking worst and its exploration was unrewarding, artificial garbage.
Threat management was fucked back in the day. Raids were hard because 99% of the mobs were immune to taunt and knockback would reduce the tank's threat by like 20%. You'd constantly have melee dps accidently pulling aggro and getting a bunch of people cleaved to death.
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO ROLL DICE, MANAGE STATS AND INVENTORY IN A TAB BASED MMO I NEED TO PRESS MY BUTTOOOOOONNNNSSSSSSSSSSS OFF COOLDOWN AND MOVE AWAY FROM LE EPIN FIRE INDICATOR
>Are you fucking retarded? Like actually?
>>Has to get 4 hooves
>>has to kill 20 Zhevras for it
he is right you fucking mong
dropping a hoove on each zebra makes it a non event while 20 zebra for 4 hooves makes it a struggle and makes each hooves drop an event an accomplishment in itself
Okay but the modern player doesn’t care about that and just wants to raid with his friends.
No, it makes it fucking annoying as shit.
the annoyance is what makes it even register in your mind you autopilotmaxxing moron
Shut the fuck up and talk like a human.
>No, it makes it fucking annoying as shit.
to be fair these grinding quests are only worth doing when you have a few friends with you to speed things up while also doing small talk.
doing these shit quests solo are just sad.
I miss these little social moments of old mmos where you just go around in a group of 3-5 friends talking about random stuff while killing mobs, peak comfy.
>a multiplayer game is better with multiple players
There are people ITT right now who would disagree.
>uuuugh this grind is annoying as shit
>I wish I could just get it over with and start the REAL grind
You never enjoyed MMOs.
I did. Just not the ones that forced me to go through anal cancer-tier gameplay for weeks.
No such MMO exists, for that is by definition what MMOs are.
You have been brainfucked by bad games.
Grinding is literally the worst part of MMOs.
It is the only part.
You'd love Korean MMOs. You can pay to have the game beat itself. No grinding at all.
Paying to undo someone's bad design is paying them for designing a game badly.
Glad we agree.
It is actually crazy to me that you guys call yourselves White men but literally choose to play on shitty private server surrounded by chinks and Hispanics who couldn't afford a 15 dollar a month subscription. You can give me whatever cope you want I've played on these servers before classic came out and it is literally third world dog shit. You have to be the most pathetic human being imaginable to insist on playing those shitty servers.
because we want to play vanilla wow not classic
theyre two different games
i will not give money to the company that murdered the game i used to enjoy. why do you willingly pay a murderer?
>Me, the goypig who gives money for a 20 year old game that should be free or single payment only, am le epin white male
yeah, checks out
>im white because i give gay garden gnome trannies money
I can afford it but blizz don't policy their game and there is less bots and chinks on private servers than on classic
You dont even know what youre talking about, retard. Its embarassing.
You might as well talk about being afraid of getting a ban on retail because you looked at a private server kek. Or getting a virus.
If anything, pservers are the last bastion of white men.
Anybody in the thirdest worldest of countries can go to work a minimum wage for 2-4 hours and be able to pay for their monthly sub of goycraft. You aren't special because you spend 15 bucks, or 20 turkish liras, or 500 kazakh rupees on your blizznet account access. The only people youre "saving" yourself from is third world underaged kids at best who think that 15 a month is a lot of money (like ((you)).
I miss it every day.
God blessed me in many ways in 2019. I had cancer so I was 100% NEET and then WoW classic was rereleased. If you are good and pray you might find the luck I did.
Why are so many retards in this thread confusing classic and vanilla?
Dragonflight is the best expansion the last 10 years though, so retail WoW is going in the correct direction.
this. will add so far, plenty of time for blizzard to shit the bed horrifically, but so far? Best expac in a long time.
considering my age (almost 29), would it be a bad idea to start on a tbc private server (stormforge) when it goes live (march 25th)?
Vanilla was a dogshit game, all of the raids were horrible shit, the class design was abominable, and you only have fond memories of it because you were a retarded 10 year old
Good design doesn't always equal a good game, simpleton.
They streamlined all reasons to play the game out of the game.
>Good design doesn't always equal a good game
You are a mouthbreathing retard, have a nice day
Go watch footage of people raiding MC in 2004. They were more retarded than 10 year olds lol
>I don't have a retort, so I am just going to make myself look mentally ill.
The Barrens isn't remembered because it was well designed.
Raptor hearts aren't remembered because they were well designed.
STV/Hillsbrad weren't remembered because they were well designed
You are what kills modern gaming.
I can smell your gash from here, time to dilate, gay.
Tell me why they were remembered. Put your thoughts into some semblance of tangible thought instead of coping with the idea that there was some "magic" to those zones. I'll make it easy for you: there was no magic and they always sucked
>No games zoomer thinks classic is vanilla wants to talk about why vanilla was bad
Them being poorly designed forced you to interact with other people in the game world, which was the foundation for building a server community, which got people coming back and organically created content on its own.
Starting a WPVP war in STV or Hillsbrad wasn't a daily quest, or achievement. It was something that organically happened and enriched the game experience as a result. This gave the world/server character and kept people subscribed.
Even if you got to 60, were full clearing MC, and were just camping out in your capital city, there was organic content happening all around you.
That no longer happens in the game, because the game removed those bad design decisions and replaced them with "good" ones. It sterilized the game, and reduced player engagement.
Which led to blizzard trying to rely on other better designed and less sustainable ways to maintain player engagement(daily quests, intentionally releasing content slowly).
You really don't know what you are talking about, and every bad thing that happens in your life is your fault and you do deserve it.
No, that’s nostalgia and we witnessed this play out just a short few years ago. People did WPvP because there was nothing else to do and everyone hated it. The only reason you think otherwise is because people didn’t know how to play the game when WoW launched and it’s a solved game today. Nobody was logging in to do organic content when Classic was going because it was literally better to get world buffs and log off. Your problem is with how gamers hyper-optimize the fun out of games.
Huh? That's a really strange take. Even as a modern WoW player you'd have to admit that the old zones were incredibly well designed. You might not agree with the grindy drop rates or repetitive quests or whatever, but the zones themselves absolutely oozed with charm and had such interesting and recognizable color palettes, land marks and design elements to them. It's incredibly impressive what WoW did back in 2004, to create such a huge world where virtually every zone is completely unique and iconic.
No one was gonna let a 10 year old into their raid lol. Nice projection though, sorry you missed out.
Maybe, but there definitely aren't any retarded 10 year olds making fond memories with current retail WoW. In fact, nobody over the age of 35 even plays retail at all.
And that’s a good thing. If that weren’t the case you’d be complaining about how the zoomers ruined it anyway.
By your logic Fortnite must be the greatest game ever
there will be fortnight nostalgia threads in 10 years
>Stacking your raid with Fury Warriors
>Ret, Enhance, and Balance being completely useless
>Paladin's only playable spec is Holy
>Mage and Warlock are literal one-button classes
>Every boss and 90% of mobs are taunt immune
>Threat is completely fucked, which is why classic players discovered Fury/Prot and worldbuff meta became a thing
>Horde is strictly better in raids than Alliance because of le Windfury
>Weaponskill means you are griefing by playing a non-human Warrior or Rogue, unless you pay the Edgemaster's tax and sacrifice a glove slot
>Thunderfury was such an immense threat increase for warrior tanks that your guild was absolutely cucked if RNG wasn't in their favor
I could go on and on, vanilla was a horrible game
None of that shit effected anyone but the top 0.1% of players. I hated that they kept rebalancing the entire game around the GM/HWL PvP grind that were also the top 0.1% of players.
If you tried to do any of the vanilla raids with whatever the fuck you wanted it was a miserable, horrible fucking experience. Prot paladins were useless and could not hold boss threat. Bear druids were strictly lacking in the mitigation that warriors had. Every class did less than half of the damage of Fury Warriors and Combat Rogues, so filling your raid with specs that weren't those meant you were artificially delaying the tank-and-spank boss fights beyond what any sane person could handle. These things didn't just affect the 0.1%, retard; the horrible design of vanilla made the raids inherently unfun
Most people were not in fact raiding in vanilla WoW. And of those that were 95% of them were topped out after Rags and Ony.
You are vastly underestimating the amount of people who raided, and you can go look at old comments on Classic Wowhead, old forum posts, YouTube vids, etc. for proof of this
I'm sure most casual players were interested in posting on wowhead didn't exist and the forums.
CLASSIC WoWhead includes old Thottbot comments, you moronic fucking retard.
How does that disprove anything I said? I'm sure the 3 people from Cenarius that posted on thottbot before 2006 are the majority of the playerbase.
>I hated that they kept rebalancing the entire game around the GM/HWL PvP grind that were also the top 0.1% of players.
that's pretty fucking funny, fuck the casuals lol. just cater to the best players they are the only ones that matter
People going for rank 14 weren't the best at anything, they were just autists or children that could spend all day playing the fucking game. That's how the ranking system worked
>just cater to the best players they are the only ones that matter
That's what they did, and the game turned into dogshit. Post current parse to prove you approve of this game design philosophy or fuck off.
>Every boss and 90% of mobs are taunt immune
Literal fiction. You actually just made this up to populate your list further.
>Horde is strictly better in raids than Alliance because of le Windfury
No... no they aren't. It isn't 2004 any more. Blessing of Kings is objectively better.
Basically the rest of your complaints boil down to stuff that only affects the top-level parsetrannies, and no-one in their right mind will care about complaints from these "people".
What have you been smoking? Alliance has always been outright superior in PvE LOL Paladin is the best PvE class in the fucking game.
His post is basically a mix of stuff he read about classic WoW without playing it, and stuff he can vaguely remember from 2005. That's one of the latter.
No one respected pallys back in the day.
vanilla mages are fun as fuck
>food and water spells
love the mage utility spells
mages had no spell steal in vanilla. way to out yourself as a newfag lmao
Because the shit formula wasn't quite as obvious
slower paced. Retail is more of an actionRPGMMO
>Why is WoW classic so much better than retail?
Because the people who made it gave a shit
>literally everybody on the planet acknowledges that modern mmo design is dogshit
>zoomers still come out of the woodwork asking for your mythic parses if you think an mmorpg should have leveling
>modern MMO design is dogshit
Every single MMO that has tried to do old school design, besides OSRS, has either failed or is irrelevant in the market.
I'd be playing wow classic if it didn't have those stupid expansions. I'm so annoyed
WoW was fun when you just got done with WC3 and wanted to explore the world and find things. I remember traveling different parts of azeroth looking for Arthas/Kel thuzad and other named characters wondering where they were. My very first character was an undead rogue and I went immediately to undercity and saw Sylvanas there and thought "wtf I hate her I dont want to serve her" and then deleted my character
>mfw being a WoW-chad and ERPing with many fat ugly women on RP servers
das it mane
I still lol daily at wow trannies getting btfo'd by ffxiv of all things
FFXIV is everything wrong with what WoW became amplified by a factor of ten. That being said, it is probably the better game thanks to not trying to juggle fifty different audiences at once.
I don't read cope. Keep seething chud
oh here comes the delicious chud seethe. ffixiv won lol cope
you will never be a woman, chud
ahahahahaahahaha go celebrate your nomination for most gay game on the market chud ahahahaahahah
YWNBAW, later literal chud by your own admission
>no u again
ahahahaha holy shit wowchud pllssss lmaoooooooooooooooo imagine losing to ffxiv ahahaahahah
>I don't read
very strange behaviour
theyre literally the same game you retard
all that rping has fried your gay brain
ohnoonono coping wowchud tries to make himself feel better ahahahahaahahah dial8
thats a lot of buzzwords for a gay
surprise your gay brain can even think of that many words
It feels like an adventure. The expansions after Wrath feel like they're wanting to railroad you in to the endgame grind.
Baldur's Gate feels like an adventure. WoW feels like a chore.
why do so many incels play WoW?
subhumans tend to stick together look at russia and morons and chinks
Because It's a virtual retirement home. Jaded 30+ year old millennials are contained in classic & retail. The game is too depressing to play this point. Genshin is where all the hype is at and its less P2W than retail WoW.
As bad as retail WoW has gotten both officially (cash shop) and unofficially (token runs/rating boosts). It's not a gacha game.
Worse than a gacha game. Gold & carry buyers deserve the rope. They are at the lowest tier of P2W shamelessness.
mfw wowchuds still seething
It was more of a sandbox experience despite it being fairly on rails compared to earlier MMOs. Going back and playing it on classic release made me realize how on rails it actually was and quit after raiding MC once. Shame about the gays that didn’t quit and continue to spam this board about their shit game
you retards arguing so much, but normalfags killed wow, It was farmville before farmville, it was even referenced in shit like How I met your mother. It became incredibly popular on common culture.
Paladin or DK for doing PUGs and eventually getting into a good guild
If I do Paladin I'd want to do healing too in addition ot tank and DPS
In wrath or retail
Wrath, my bad
DK is OP and Holy Paladin is boring as sin.
Paladin because you can heal too so you have an extra shot at a raid spot.
Although I just got into a 13/13 guild today as an UH DK so anythings possible.
To me the gear just feels so much better, also I like that there's no Mythic raiding.
what am i being reminded of
you have a dentist appointment tomorrow at 12
wrong, its next week
They made very cringe videos "addressing" criticism of the latest expansion
wow thats crazy, couldnt tell from all those pictures.
Leveling a Shaman in Classic was so fucking fun. It had so many tools it felt like a hero class.
Then I became a healbot at 60 and had fun. Even got to be a part of our guild’s first kill on C’thun which was something I never thought I’d ever do.
soiboi wow nerd made an excellent video on all of this
It was a product of its time and it really was a magical experience. I have lots of good memories of it but sadly it simply can't be replicated.
Best private servers currently?
Y the Y to be....
I had fun in classic because I was in an all-dwarf guild so doing MC and other raids without mages, warlocks, druids was really interesting. cleared naxx 10/15
Practically a DND sim
Leveling and exploration IS the game, endgame a bonus
Classes very unique
Coherent and respected artstyle of Samwise Didier
Amazing world building and design, especially aesthetically
and the absolute most important part: the world was designed to be alive, interaction with players was encouraged at all points, making the world feel alive
Has next to no resource management left in its gameplay
Leveling may as well not even exist anymore, endgame is 90% of the game
Classes all have access to everything, stuns, mobility etc
Shitty furaffinity artstyle by some intern
Same-ish, boring zones
And why it's shit, it's designed as a single player game, interacting with others is completely optional and only necessary if you want to do highest difficulty raids, for which you can just sit in another menu to do anyway
You have never played D&D if you think vanilla was anything like it in any way.
You're rolling dice for everything combat related. Just because it lacks the freeform and customisability of a fucking verbal tabletop game does not mean it's not similar/inspired by it
Being vaguely inspired by D&D does not mean you play anything like D&D.
he's right though. you'd just roll around with your 4 buddies in a party, on vent and questing. sounds pretty similar to DND. sounds better than DND
Vanilla is heavily inspired by dnd. Half the class skills are lifted from it.
It's more that it was inspired by EQ, which was heavily inspired by D&D. Also depends what you mean. For a time, essentially all fantasy RPG vidya were inspired by D&D to some extent.
How fucking old are you people? What the hell? Are there really people who are 40+ years old posting on here?
WoW classic was released just a couple of years ago, zoom zoom
Never played retail in my life, just jumped around from pserver to pserver having played every expansion up until wod. Vanilla is simply the only good expansion, and probably by complete accident as they began streamlining a lot of the game right around tbc
i was 4 years old when world of warcraft first came out
Classic is harder than retail, that's why. There's a reason for why the HC movement is happening on Classic, not Retail or Wotlk
>b-buh muh myffix!!!
Who the fuck cares? 99% of the game is so easy you literally cannot die even if you try, the last 1% does not redeem it.
It’s not harder you fucking brainlet. People have been doing hardcore runs in retail forever it’s not a new concept but nobody gives a shit because the important part of the game in retail is endgame which is much much harder than literally anything in classic. There is no “hardcore movement” it’s a small niche of players and some streamers. The “movement” will die as soon as the streamers move on.
>B-BUH MUH EHHH GEEEEMH MYFFFIIIXX!!!!
You can literally hold W and spam one button to solo clear all dungeons all the way to max level the game is piss fucking easy lmao no one games about your 1% challenge modes that you can access once you have held W for 20000 hours
Show us a stream of you one button soloing retail dungeons all the way to level cap
Sorry, I only play good games.
Of course it is harder and thats just a fact. It was already proven by streamer retards and by anyone who has played the game.
How did current WoW even get labeled as "retail" anyway
When's the last time you went to a Brick & Morty store to buy an expansion and it actually came with install CDs?
because during private server era modern wow is the "retail" you buy or is sold currently as opposed to the old stuff
This is the shit we did, i was in a clan with this fucking tismo.
Dethecus..... CT OWNS YOU BUR BUR BUR
Bahahah holy shit i totally forget about this, i played in Under Construction. They made a guide to get past him.
Ah shit, I remember Angwespy. That's 10 out of fucking 10 trolling.
Honestly the most S+ tier trolling in any mmo ever.
On a side note, modern wow with mythic raids etc. What makes vanilla better is it forced you to interact, there was no "click button in raid/battleground" feature. You had to travel (or get a warlock), you had to adventure, you where forced to socialize with people.....and the people you grouped with YOU'D only ever group with people in your server, so you'd see them again and again.
It built a community, that's why veterans say vanilla is better. Funnily enough a lack of qol features creates an environment where you have to social and creates a community....from that community you get meaningful experiences. Modern WoW is a single player game with multiplayer tacked on, classic is a true multiplayer game. People made life long friends, got married, etc. The firs step to pealing that away was battle ground masters in cities, then cross server instances, then ques for raids etc.
On dethecus if you played to 60 you knew who everyone was, all the big names on both sides, you'd see them out and about.
>everyone knows your name
>cheers the game
bro i remember the feeling, fuck it kind of hurts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW4fASDkQXA
Just hearing that hits the feels
I really like Turtle WoW so far
Endgame focus is the thing that kills MMOs.
I don't know for sure, but after logging onto Nu-Classic and realizing it's full of metachuds, minmaxers, boosters, and gdkp cucks, I'm pretty sure the game itself didn't have anything to do with it, but rather the general mindset of the playerbase.
Both are shit. All MMORPG are bad. I am right, you wrong
There are actually people in all of the zones rather than the zones being mostly empty after everyone hits the level cap.
Everyone was a noob and people were still figuring out stuff. Also, it was just the right amount of dumbed down, accessible but also posing somewhat of a challenge in the sense that death was a real possibility.
Classic was an actual game, like they actually tried to flesh it out to be an immersive experience like many classic games of old. Retail is just a collection of minigames with an overworld, like Mario party.