If your game is isomorphic to an arena shooter or not computationally demanding, it would be a waste reinventing the wheel. New engines are necessary only when you have a new problem to solve.
My games will be shit anyway, so why bother?
Write your own everything and stop whining, homosexuals
not that you've not made yourself clear that you're larping by trying that, but what is it with redditors being here when they clearly don't belong here and being so smug about it? I can understand not wanting to correlate your irl persona on glowBlack person website for privacy or sociopolitical reasons. but if don't even identify with the community, you don't deserve my mindshare.
I've wondered this too. I understand why it happens to /misc/ and Ganker, because both of those boards discuss topics that attract mentally ill discord users. Of course video game addicts want to go argue with the heckin chuds about the newest gayme. Not really sure why it's happening to Ganker.
I wouldn't be too hard on them. A big difference between now and then is you have these game engine companies telling gaymers "you too can make game". They can't, but they'll have spent a lot of money trying before they realize that. It's sick, but such is life in the marketplace.
Same here. I want my game to look and feel like it's from the early 2000s, so I'm writing a reference renderer in old-school DirectX, and then I'll port it to Vulkan. Also want vector graphics support for textures, and MIDI, neither of which seem to be supported in commercial engines. Sometimes you just don't have the option of being pragmatic and cutting corners.
I would, but I'd like to make money off the game and not have to worry about whether my dialogue counts as source code under the GPL or not, thanks.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Don't you only have to openly share the engine code with idTech or even GZDoom? I threw the Source suggestion but now that I'm looking into it, that one is a frickin no-go.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Don't you only have to openly share the engine code with idTech or even GZDoom?
No idea, honestly. I don't feel like consulting a lawyer just to understand the nuance of where my rights end when interacting with the GPL. I'd rather just not touch it.
8 months ago
Anonymous
(Me)
Correction: I'd rather not touch it when making a game. I like the GPL (more specifically the AGPL) and use it when developing tools and whatnot. Don't want to incite a flame war over licensing lmao
8 months ago
Anonymous
(Me)
Correction: I'd rather not touch it when making a game. I like the GPL (more specifically the AGPL) and use it when developing tools and whatnot. Don't want to incite a flame war over licensing lmao
Games like Hedon and Selaco use GZDoom and they are commercial products, so as far as I know only the engine code including any modifications are required to be source available. Scripting and assets are the property of the creators. That being said, I'm not a legal authority and I am only at the top level of this rabbit hole because I just started looking into using FTEQW or GZ for a game.
True. I have written my own text editor and now I'm writing my virtual terminal and window manager. After that, I plan to write my own C compiler and down from there.
This, but not moronic. Making your own game engine is foolish if you're making it for just one game. Better to just make the game driectly from the APIs you use to write engines because then you're not wasting time on engine shit you won't actually need.
none of these involve making a game, if you're making a game you should make your own tools you absolute fricking noob. Programming a game is not just general computer use as all of the things you described are for, get out of my field.
wrong. you have to wonder why you're making a game. if you're trying to mimic something that already exists, it's certainly not a good idea to make a game, and you shall probably stop. make everything yourself from the ground up, it will be more unique and you will learn much more.
It's moronic to follow on just that, but he's not wrong. If you use the same tools as the game you're trying to emulate, chances are you'll suffer the same constraints and be liable to make the same gameplay compromises they did. Working from the ground up provides you freedom to explore different solutions. The only middleground is writing your own extensions to the game engine, which is a lot more difficult than just implementing it as part of your own engine.
An "engine" is a structured, following certain convention, way to develop a game.
If it was absolutely general, it wouldn't be called an "engine" - you would simply have graphics programming libraries, audio libraries, physics libraries and so on...
The problem is video games are all about novelty.
And by using an engine you're going to make a game that will look and feel the same like many others already on the market.
>unless you're exploring novel techniques
If you aren't, you shouldn't be making a game.
Just look at Steam - gaming market is already saturated as it is.
World really doesn't need another shitty generic platformer.
That's not true, all those game lack polish not novelty.
You absolutely can make game that are unoriginal, and be successful while providing fun game plays.
Well, the unprecedented "polish" would be the novelty here.
And developing your own tools could help you with that (assuming you have the skills to stand out).
The ones provided with those commonly used engines are surprisingly poor quality and cumbersome to use.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>The ones provided with those commonly used engines are surprisingly poor quality and cumbersome to use.
It's a fallacy, most decent games are also made using off the shelf engines.
It's just easier to release shit game made with one too.
8 months ago
Anonymous
And their budgets are ballooning up,
their games are taking longer and longer to make.
What chance do you have to compete with them as an indie studio with an order of magnitude less resources while using the same tools as them?
I'm not saying it's impossible to make a novel game using an off the shelf engine but it's incredibly hard - you have to create really inventive gameplay.
It's much much easier to sell your game on technological gimmick, even for AAA studios, see:
Half-Life 2 - real-time physics simulations,
Portal - portal rendering,
All the open world games without seams (GTA, recent Zelda games and many others) - streamed background resource loading.
>learn to code
You lack the comprehension of what I wrote, if you can actually parse a sentence you will know that I said writing the engine code is trivial in comparison to the game logic in a serious game and therefore using an engine is not a serious time save in comparison unless you are making trivial shit and relying on plugins. Man go and make your crappy unity game.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>t. hasn't developed anything that required some kind of decent UX
8 months ago
Anonymous
lol, I have way more UX control that you, way to out yourself as not knowing anything about computer graphics.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>He thinks UX is about rendering pipeline control
8 months ago
Anonymous
Strawman, go string together your shitty libraries that were written by someone else.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Strawman, go string together your shitty libraries that were written by someone else.
not OP but I'd like argue that if you write your own engine, then that's one less vector of frickery like Unity did that you won't have to worry about happening later down the road.
As someone who's making his own engine, I don't think this is a good argument. If Godot tried to pull something, it would just get forked. The best argument for making your own engine is that most commercial engines are intended for use in giant AAA cinematic games and will realistically be way too bloated and messy to justify using for your tiny indie game.
>If Godot tried to pull something, it would just get forked
If I were writing my own engine from scratch then I wouldn't give a crap about something like that xD I don't think I understand the message you're putting out
>The best argument for making your own engine is that most commercial engines are intended for use in giant AAA cinematic games and will realistically be way too bloated and messy to justify using for your tiny indie game.
I agree with this.
If your game is isomorphic to an arena shooter or not computationally demanding, it would be a waste reinventing the wheel. New engines are necessary only when you have a new problem to solve.
You should. Back in PS1 time, when people had Net Yaroze, everyone was writing their own game engine. It's now that people are so dumb that they find game engine to be something very hard.
Honestly you can write your own game engine on top of something like SDL2. Mine has like 3k lines of code and I can already use it for a more or less full-blown 2d platformer. You don't need 100 millions of features for a small indie game, writing an engine is literally a non-issue, as long as you know how to program at least relatively well
>It is not the 80s where everyone used same platform to play games
The 80s had more platforms. Some were more popular than others, but there were more.
AOE was better than AOE2. >fricking stone age gonna smash your head just liek that bro >ancient greeks, egypts and romans got culture while your typical peasent dark ager was throwing his shit on the street like a pajeet >gotta have to have more skillz to fill up your production line
Man that picture gave me a nostalgia attack. I played AoE1 so much back then.
Not gonna say it's better than AoE2, but I definitely like the ancient Greece and Egypt themes better than the dark ages.
I wish they could do a modern RTS in that genre, but looking at how AoE4 turned out, maybe I shouldn't wish for it.
i'm a php guy and lately i've been seriously thinking about trying to make a game
i read a lot about it and checked a lot of possibilities, and i'm slowly coming to a conclusion that i should write my own thing on top of something like sdl2
if i project the situation to php, it would be like writing your own application with a bit of help using a few simple libraries for basic abstractions or using something like laravel, and in this case i certanly wouldn't want to have ANYTHING to do with a nightmare like laravel
sure it comes with a lot of things pre-made, but the long term cost of dealing with that insane bloat and limitations and the need to learn a lot more for simple problems along the way, is way too high
Unless your game is exceptionally simple and you want to eventually sell it, not have it only as a hobby project, it's not worth it to invest years into developing, testing, debugging and optimizing your game engine when there are so many engines (FOSS or not) that are already made, tested and optimized for you.
If you need a specific feature it will still be more worth it to just add it to an existing engine
1. It is massive time investment
2. It requires much more knowledge
as in either you will learn good industry standard solutions
or hack some shit together to learn few months later that you need to rewrite your shit solution anyway
3. Engines usually comes with a lot of UX polishing done that otherwise would be tedious to implement.
4. In case you will ever need to expand and work with more people, they will need to be trained for your solution
5. there might arise need to develop specific tools from scratch, that otherwise could be present for premade engine
Honestly I recommend people who think making game from scratch to do so.
I did, don't regret, but I realize it is a little bit wasteful.
My opinion is making your own engine makes sense only in 2 cases.
You have very specific and performance oriented needs, or your game is quite simple and you are willing to sacrifice UX for it.
And because of UX polish, I switched to Godot. Sure I could make my games with C++ from mostly scratch, and code all the text behavior, icon etc.
But once you want to support more than one language, multiple resolutions, multiple platforms, UI features for better user experience.
You will quickly realize that using engine has it's merits.
>1. It is massive time investment
So? What are you, weak? >2. It requires much more knowledge
Good >as in either you will learn good industry standard solutions
? >or hack some shit together to learn few months later that you need to rewrite your shit solution anyway
That's part of the trial by fire that's required for removing degeneracy and becoming a Wizard. >3. Engines usually comes with a lot of UX polishing done that otherwise would be tedious to implement.
Hold my hand plz daddy, how about you just get good. >4. In case you will ever need to expand and work with more people, they will need to be trained for your solution
Good, specialized employees are more locked in your project, you're not training them up to ditch for a better payed job. >5. there might arise need to develop specific tools from scratch, that otherwise could be present for premade engine
Good, this builds the mind and the soul which in the end makes a better dev and a better game.
You are just nocoder, with inconsistent world view to make yourself feel better that your snake game is "written from scratch".
Come back when you make something of value
it's just true. you are just an egdy tryhard who is stuck at the top of Dunning-Kruger curve after he took C++ 101 and learned to load a model with OpenGL. there's nothing special about shit you do. it's all been done hundreds of thousands of times before.
also, you never made a game that anyone would actually enjoy playing.
stfu, and let people do their thing.
I write software renderers and use Vulkan and C, it's funny you mention dunning-kruger like any old repetitive, creativeless drip. Come back when you have classical game dev chops you degenerate.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I've been making games since DOS and mode 13h. You don't impress me, kid.
8 months ago
Anonymous
So you're old, that's your qualification, great, off you go and pat yourself on the back for being one step closer to the grave.
8 months ago
Anonymous
aww, what has happened to those "classical game dev chops" of yours, boy? tell me more about them lol.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Just because you've written games for DOS that doesn't mean anything, have you written your own software renderer with collision detection? Or just some 2D shit? Your age means nothing and your throwing it around reeks of insecurity to the point that I know you lack a foreskin, go off cope being old you dirty shart.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I've been coding for everything since DOS. I've seen more than you can possibly imagine, kiddo. You are a massive moron for discouraging people from using industry-standard game engines. There is absolutely no need for them to reinvent the wheel one more time. I definitely wouldn't be learning C++ 20 years ago just for making games if I had current selection of game development tools available. >have you written your own software renderer with collision detection?
yeah, around 1999, in Pascal. it was pretty jank and more of a PoC, because I had to figure out most math myself. >Or just some 2D shit?
sure, mostly.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Sure you have, keep pretending.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>yeah, around 1999, in Pascal.
HE SPEAKS THE LANGUAGE OF THE ANCIENTS!
8 months ago
Anonymous
>There is absolutely no need for them to reinvent the wheel one more time
Wheels are getting reinvented all the time because the old ones weren't perfect. Whether you are skilled enough to benefit from reinventing the wheel is another matter.
8 months ago
Anonymous
> more of a PoC
piece of crap?
8 months ago
Anonymous
>some 2D shit
hey Black person, nothing wrong with 2d
The main issue with engines is that they're hard to mod from the POV of the user. Unity, Unreal and even Godot don't provide an easy way to mod their binaries and if your game has modding as a selling point you end up writing a custom solution anyways.
What about a level editor? yea you can do that inside the game but you'll run into limitations. >Why would you want end user to mod binnaries?
why not?
It's quite easy to do if you write an engine to fit a specific game. People go wrong in these project when they try to generalize everything and end up trying to make a unity competitor. If you start with a clean sheet and have a definite target it's often not a bad idea.
I tried once and got quite far using winform and opentk but fell out of love with the project. Right now I'm working on a very complex game using monogame which is the sweetspot imho. It handles most of the boilerplate stuff but you don't have to learn complex editors or development patterns to use it.
Just use C and Vulkan, write a software renderer in raw X11 calls/win api, then write a Vulkan layer, that's the way to write a very fast and powerful game whilst knowing the underlying mechanics that go into it without dependency on a lot of meme libraries and other bloated shit. C++ if you really need your hand holding with memory management...
The problem with this approach is that it mostly takes a lot of time. Some higher level concept are hard to understand and implement and are really interesting to learn but you'll find yourself spending a lot of time writing generic math classes from college calculus textbook.
Which builds mathematical chops, programming chops, understanding of the underlying system and ultimately turns you into a Wizard programmer, sign me up. If vanity is the goal and fast output is the race then like the tortoise and the hare vanity will kill you in the end.
You should do that if you are interested in learning more.
It is a good skill to have in general I think. Understanding various mathematical equations and putting them all together to for example create a 3D engine that has features like lighting and shadows and various mathematical equations for realistic water
Because then i need to write my own 3d modeling/rigging/skinning/animation software, raster graphics editor, particle editor and audio software, to not looks like a loser!
Not mention learning other skills like animation and modeling after 20 years of making all needed software.
If you can't do that and it was the standard among gamedevs up until recently, you are a small fish in a big pond of sharks and you're not going to get any bigger by taking the path of least resistance.
Alright, I look forward to you producing your first game in 1-2 years time then. You’ve got the runway capital to sustain yourself until then, right anon?
>Alright, I look forward to you producing your first game in 1-2 years time then.
He is doing great, then. I have seen people using someone else's engine and still take almost a decade to leave early access.
>unless you're exploring novel techniques
If you aren't, you shouldn't be making a game.
Just look at Steam - gaming market is already saturated as it is.
World really doesn't need another shitty generic platformer.
Writing an engine is more fun than writing the game so you'll just keep writing it forever. Using an engine leaves you no excuses and you'll have to deal with all the boring non-programming stuff.
You should unless you're trying to get an idea turned into a game ASAP so you can sell it. >pic
Why are they all standing around? There's a farm to work and trees to chop.
The advantages of doing that over just using an engine off the shelf are often not worth the time investment.
Write your own everything and stop whining, homosexuals
Post examples of your own software or quit LARPing.
>dox myself in this shitstain of a community
Yeah no
LARP until proven otherwise.
not that you've not made yourself clear that you're larping by trying that, but what is it with redditors being here when they clearly don't belong here and being so smug about it? I can understand not wanting to correlate your irl persona on glowBlack person website for privacy or sociopolitical reasons. but if don't even identify with the community, you don't deserve my mindshare.
I've wondered this too. I understand why it happens to /misc/ and Ganker, because both of those boards discuss topics that attract mentally ill discord users. Of course video game addicts want to go argue with the heckin chuds about the newest gayme. Not really sure why it's happening to Ganker.
Lolwut? Literally doing that rn since my game has some very unusual requirements that engines can't satisfy.
Based. You will go far. Meanwhile these whiny homosexuals won't even complete 10% of their game with shitty generic bloatware engines
I wouldn't be too hard on them. A big difference between now and then is you have these game engine companies telling gaymers "you too can make game". They can't, but they'll have spent a lot of money trying before they realize that. It's sick, but such is life in the marketplace.
Same here. I want my game to look and feel like it's from the early 2000s, so I'm writing a reference renderer in old-school DirectX, and then I'll port it to Vulkan. Also want vector graphics support for textures, and MIDI, neither of which seem to be supported in commercial engines. Sometimes you just don't have the option of being pragmatic and cutting corners.
Why not use idTech3/4 or Source Engine?
I would, but I'd like to make money off the game and not have to worry about whether my dialogue counts as source code under the GPL or not, thanks.
Don't you only have to openly share the engine code with idTech or even GZDoom? I threw the Source suggestion but now that I'm looking into it, that one is a frickin no-go.
>Don't you only have to openly share the engine code with idTech or even GZDoom?
No idea, honestly. I don't feel like consulting a lawyer just to understand the nuance of where my rights end when interacting with the GPL. I'd rather just not touch it.
(Me)
Correction: I'd rather not touch it when making a game. I like the GPL (more specifically the AGPL) and use it when developing tools and whatnot. Don't want to incite a flame war over licensing lmao
Games like Hedon and Selaco use GZDoom and they are commercial products, so as far as I know only the engine code including any modifications are required to be source available. Scripting and assets are the property of the creators. That being said, I'm not a legal authority and I am only at the top level of this rabbit hole because I just started looking into using FTEQW or GZ for a game.
True. I have written my own text editor and now I'm writing my virtual terminal and window manager. After that, I plan to write my own C compiler and down from there.
I prefer making a game instead of making a game engine
This, but not moronic. Making your own game engine is foolish if you're making it for just one game. Better to just make the game driectly from the APIs you use to write engines because then you're not wasting time on engine shit you won't actually need.
>this but not moronic
>moronic take, that maybe works on a small prototype
>uses an operating system someone else wrote
>uses software someone else wrote
>uses a browser someone else wrote
>uses a website someone else wrote
none of these involve making a game, if you're making a game you should make your own tools you absolute fricking noob. Programming a game is not just general computer use as all of the things you described are for, get out of my field.
bip bip moron alert
show me your os
wrong. you have to wonder why you're making a game. if you're trying to mimic something that already exists, it's certainly not a good idea to make a game, and you shall probably stop. make everything yourself from the ground up, it will be more unique and you will learn much more.
This is terrible advice, you'd have to beat complete moron to actually think this way
It's moronic to follow on just that, but he's not wrong. If you use the same tools as the game you're trying to emulate, chances are you'll suffer the same constraints and be liable to make the same gameplay compromises they did. Working from the ground up provides you freedom to explore different solutions. The only middleground is writing your own extensions to the game engine, which is a lot more difficult than just implementing it as part of your own engine.
He's right.
An "engine" is a structured, following certain convention, way to develop a game.
If it was absolutely general, it wouldn't be called an "engine" - you would simply have graphics programming libraries, audio libraries, physics libraries and so on...
The problem is video games are all about novelty.
And by using an engine you're going to make a game that will look and feel the same like many others already on the market.
That's not true, all those game lack polish not novelty.
You absolutely can make game that are unoriginal, and be successful while providing fun game plays.
Well, the unprecedented "polish" would be the novelty here.
And developing your own tools could help you with that (assuming you have the skills to stand out).
The ones provided with those commonly used engines are surprisingly poor quality and cumbersome to use.
>The ones provided with those commonly used engines are surprisingly poor quality and cumbersome to use.
It's a fallacy, most decent games are also made using off the shelf engines.
It's just easier to release shit game made with one too.
And their budgets are ballooning up,
their games are taking longer and longer to make.
What chance do you have to compete with them as an indie studio with an order of magnitude less resources while using the same tools as them?
I'm not saying it's impossible to make a novel game using an off the shelf engine but it's incredibly hard - you have to create really inventive gameplay.
It's much much easier to sell your game on technological gimmick, even for AAA studios, see:
Half-Life 2 - real-time physics simulations,
Portal - portal rendering,
All the open world games without seams (GTA, recent Zelda games and many others) - streamed background resource loading.
If your game ideas can be easily expressed in off the shelf engines then maybe they're are bland and not worth making.
This and also if your game logic is so trivial that you think an engine really solves anything in comparison then your game is not worth making.
Way to out yourself as no-coder, if you think that general purpose engines are so tightly coupled to your game logic.
>someone outs you as a shit developer
>yeah well you don't even code.
How do I know you're fat?
>Name calling
yup, larper
Again, learn to code if you think it's good design to couple game engine code to game logic.
>learn to code
You lack the comprehension of what I wrote, if you can actually parse a sentence you will know that I said writing the engine code is trivial in comparison to the game logic in a serious game and therefore using an engine is not a serious time save in comparison unless you are making trivial shit and relying on plugins. Man go and make your crappy unity game.
>t. hasn't developed anything that required some kind of decent UX
lol, I have way more UX control that you, way to out yourself as not knowing anything about computer graphics.
>He thinks UX is about rendering pipeline control
Strawman, go string together your shitty libraries that were written by someone else.
Show us your games!
I made their own engine, and also had to write plugins for engines to make my ideas possibly work, and this is a really, really stupid statement.
True and real, only morons would believe asset flip clones are worth of making.
There isn't a single existing game that can't be hacked together by a competent programmer in Unity if you wanted to
not OP but I'd like argue that if you write your own engine, then that's one less vector of frickery like Unity did that you won't have to worry about happening later down the road.
As someone who's making his own engine, I don't think this is a good argument. If Godot tried to pull something, it would just get forked. The best argument for making your own engine is that most commercial engines are intended for use in giant AAA cinematic games and will realistically be way too bloated and messy to justify using for your tiny indie game.
>If Godot tried to pull something, it would just get forked
If I were writing my own engine from scratch then I wouldn't give a crap about something like that xD I don't think I understand the message you're putting out
>The best argument for making your own engine is that most commercial engines are intended for use in giant AAA cinematic games and will realistically be way too bloated and messy to justify using for your tiny indie game.
I agree with this.
if youre not writing own game engine then your game is just another usual lazy garbage that no one cares about, why bother?
Smooth brain answer.
If your game is isomorphic to an arena shooter or not computationally demanding, it would be a waste reinventing the wheel. New engines are necessary only when you have a new problem to solve.
My games will be shit anyway, so why bother?
because it's more fun than making actual games
You should. Back in PS1 time, when people had Net Yaroze, everyone was writing their own game engine. It's now that people are so dumb that they find game engine to be something very hard.
How do video game creators who dedicate their life to a video game get relief, do they watch streams of people playing their games...
Money
Making the game is the relief. If I do not make it, my dreams will become filled with it, and I will wake up each day with a sense of longing.
Only sexless nerds write their own engine. Productive men have a purpose and use the best tool available.
>relying on someone else's tools
Literal cuckery
Tell us about your computer.
That makes you a cuck:
Which engine would you use to write Space Engine in?
>Productive men have a purpose
>he makes video games
lmao
>playing video games = gay and shit
>making video games = based and creativity-pilled
games are the ultimate artistic outlet
depends on what your goal is if its to learn how to write a engine go ahead if its to make a game then you are jut wasting time and procrastinating.
Because it's hard and time consuming and I have no use case for one.
Honestly you can write your own game engine on top of something like SDL2. Mine has like 3k lines of code and I can already use it for a more or less full-blown 2d platformer. You don't need 100 millions of features for a small indie game, writing an engine is literally a non-issue, as long as you know how to program at least relatively well
Because you are not going to debug your own engine on every desktop OS, smartphone and every console.
You only need to release on Windows
Linuxgays can use Wine
Macgays can use Wine
Smartphonegays can go frick themselves
>players that are not using same hardware as me can go frick themselves
If you are writing a game for your own entertainment, yes
But the best games were made to entertain players
It is not the 80s where everyone used same platform to play games
>It is not the 80s where everyone used same platform to play games
it is, that platform is Windows
>It is not the 80s where everyone used same platform to play games
The 80s had more platforms. Some were more popular than others, but there were more.
And most games were platform specific, very rarely ported.
Same but I only release on Linux
Wingays can compile the source code
Macgays can compile the source code
Smartgays can compile the source code
Same but I do not "release" anything at all. You pay me for the source. Then you can do whatever the frick you want.
>if you minimize your chances of financial success, you win.
If I would want financial success I would sell drugs and shit like pfizer, you moron.
You own Pfizer?
AOE was better than AOE2.
>fricking stone age gonna smash your head just liek that bro
>ancient greeks, egypts and romans got culture while your typical peasent dark ager was throwing his shit on the street like a pajeet
>gotta have to have more skillz to fill up your production line
Man that picture gave me a nostalgia attack. I played AoE1 so much back then.
Not gonna say it's better than AoE2, but I definitely like the ancient Greece and Egypt themes better than the dark ages.
I wish they could do a modern RTS in that genre, but looking at how AoE4 turned out, maybe I shouldn't wish for it.
>Why shouldn't you write your own game engine?
I don't know why shouldn't you?
>hilarious zoomers
I think you should at least once to get knowledge and understand how it works.
i'm a php guy and lately i've been seriously thinking about trying to make a game
i read a lot about it and checked a lot of possibilities, and i'm slowly coming to a conclusion that i should write my own thing on top of something like sdl2
if i project the situation to php, it would be like writing your own application with a bit of help using a few simple libraries for basic abstractions or using something like laravel, and in this case i certanly wouldn't want to have ANYTHING to do with a nightmare like laravel
sure it comes with a lot of things pre-made, but the long term cost of dealing with that insane bloat and limitations and the need to learn a lot more for simple problems along the way, is way too high
Unironically exactly how it is when you use big engines. Bloat left and right
Unless your game is exceptionally simple and you want to eventually sell it, not have it only as a hobby project, it's not worth it to invest years into developing, testing, debugging and optimizing your game engine when there are so many engines (FOSS or not) that are already made, tested and optimized for you.
If you need a specific feature it will still be more worth it to just add it to an existing engine
Sensible take.
maximum nostalgia
?t=1113
because it might end up looking like games we played in the early 90's
>"looks" are important for a game in 2023
yeah, I still play AOE1/2, Stronghold, CS. I can't even remember the last time I started Crysis.
Because you probably don't have the time and resources to do that AND make a good game.
>not writing your own operating system first
wasn't there some guy that did that? whatever happened to him
Codelets think that. Which is most of Ganker.
Because you're a weak larp gamedev who can't.
1. It is massive time investment
2. It requires much more knowledge
as in either you will learn good industry standard solutions
or hack some shit together to learn few months later that you need to rewrite your shit solution anyway
3. Engines usually comes with a lot of UX polishing done that otherwise would be tedious to implement.
4. In case you will ever need to expand and work with more people, they will need to be trained for your solution
5. there might arise need to develop specific tools from scratch, that otherwise could be present for premade engine
Honestly I recommend people who think making game from scratch to do so.
I did, don't regret, but I realize it is a little bit wasteful.
My opinion is making your own engine makes sense only in 2 cases.
You have very specific and performance oriented needs, or your game is quite simple and you are willing to sacrifice UX for it.
And because of UX polish, I switched to Godot. Sure I could make my games with C++ from mostly scratch, and code all the text behavior, icon etc.
But once you want to support more than one language, multiple resolutions, multiple platforms, UI features for better user experience.
You will quickly realize that using engine has it's merits.
>2137
>1. It is massive time investment
So? What are you, weak?
>2. It requires much more knowledge
Good
>as in either you will learn good industry standard solutions
?
>or hack some shit together to learn few months later that you need to rewrite your shit solution anyway
That's part of the trial by fire that's required for removing degeneracy and becoming a Wizard.
>3. Engines usually comes with a lot of UX polishing done that otherwise would be tedious to implement.
Hold my hand plz daddy, how about you just get good.
>4. In case you will ever need to expand and work with more people, they will need to be trained for your solution
Good, specialized employees are more locked in your project, you're not training them up to ditch for a better payed job.
>5. there might arise need to develop specific tools from scratch, that otherwise could be present for premade engine
Good, this builds the mind and the soul which in the end makes a better dev and a better game.
muh' easy = better
>muh' easy = better
yes
wimp mentality.
You are just nocoder, with inconsistent world view to make yourself feel better that your snake game is "written from scratch".
Come back when you make something of value
>you're just a nocoder
Alright anon, if it makes you feel better about being a weak, mediocre dev that's can't write his own graphics code.
t. moron who would literally crack stones with his own skull because it's harder
Wow so clever, go back to playing glorified roblox, sorry I mean using a game engine like a real programmer.
it's just true. you are just an egdy tryhard who is stuck at the top of Dunning-Kruger curve after he took C++ 101 and learned to load a model with OpenGL. there's nothing special about shit you do. it's all been done hundreds of thousands of times before.
also, you never made a game that anyone would actually enjoy playing.
stfu, and let people do their thing.
I write software renderers and use Vulkan and C, it's funny you mention dunning-kruger like any old repetitive, creativeless drip. Come back when you have classical game dev chops you degenerate.
I've been making games since DOS and mode 13h. You don't impress me, kid.
So you're old, that's your qualification, great, off you go and pat yourself on the back for being one step closer to the grave.
aww, what has happened to those "classical game dev chops" of yours, boy? tell me more about them lol.
Just because you've written games for DOS that doesn't mean anything, have you written your own software renderer with collision detection? Or just some 2D shit? Your age means nothing and your throwing it around reeks of insecurity to the point that I know you lack a foreskin, go off cope being old you dirty shart.
I've been coding for everything since DOS. I've seen more than you can possibly imagine, kiddo. You are a massive moron for discouraging people from using industry-standard game engines. There is absolutely no need for them to reinvent the wheel one more time. I definitely wouldn't be learning C++ 20 years ago just for making games if I had current selection of game development tools available.
>have you written your own software renderer with collision detection?
yeah, around 1999, in Pascal. it was pretty jank and more of a PoC, because I had to figure out most math myself.
>Or just some 2D shit?
sure, mostly.
Sure you have, keep pretending.
>yeah, around 1999, in Pascal.
HE SPEAKS THE LANGUAGE OF THE ANCIENTS!
>There is absolutely no need for them to reinvent the wheel one more time
Wheels are getting reinvented all the time because the old ones weren't perfect. Whether you are skilled enough to benefit from reinventing the wheel is another matter.
> more of a PoC
piece of crap?
>some 2D shit
hey Black person, nothing wrong with 2d
The main issue with engines is that they're hard to mod from the POV of the user. Unity, Unreal and even Godot don't provide an easy way to mod their binaries and if your game has modding as a selling point you end up writing a custom solution anyways.
Why would you want end user to mod binnaries?
AFAIK Godot has the ability to run user GDScripts, which should be enough for most modding needs.
What about a level editor? yea you can do that inside the game but you'll run into limitations.
>Why would you want end user to mod binnaries?
why not?
It's quite easy to do if you write an engine to fit a specific game. People go wrong in these project when they try to generalize everything and end up trying to make a unity competitor. If you start with a clean sheet and have a definite target it's often not a bad idea.
>easy to do
I wonder how I know you've never made a non trivial engine, anyway: it being hard to do is the point, you want it to be hard.
I tried once and got quite far using winform and opentk but fell out of love with the project. Right now I'm working on a very complex game using monogame which is the sweetspot imho. It handles most of the boilerplate stuff but you don't have to learn complex editors or development patterns to use it.
Just use C and Vulkan, write a software renderer in raw X11 calls/win api, then write a Vulkan layer, that's the way to write a very fast and powerful game whilst knowing the underlying mechanics that go into it without dependency on a lot of meme libraries and other bloated shit. C++ if you really need your hand holding with memory management...
The problem with this approach is that it mostly takes a lot of time. Some higher level concept are hard to understand and implement and are really interesting to learn but you'll find yourself spending a lot of time writing generic math classes from college calculus textbook.
Which builds mathematical chops, programming chops, understanding of the underlying system and ultimately turns you into a Wizard programmer, sign me up. If vanity is the goal and fast output is the race then like the tortoise and the hare vanity will kill you in the end.
After that you will be a real gamedev with classical skills.
You should do that if you are interested in learning more.
It is a good skill to have in general I think. Understanding various mathematical equations and putting them all together to for example create a 3D engine that has features like lighting and shadows and various mathematical equations for realistic water
Write your entire game in Assembly, homosexuals.
>why do you buy power tools? just make them urself
Because then i need to write my own 3d modeling/rigging/skinning/animation software, raster graphics editor, particle editor and audio software, to not looks like a loser!
Not mention learning other skills like animation and modeling after 20 years of making all needed software.
If you can't do that and it was the standard among gamedevs up until recently, you are a small fish in a big pond of sharks and you're not going to get any bigger by taking the path of least resistance.
You're just coming off as a dishonest larper
Why not create your own PC from scratch like those Youtube primitivists?
whats even a game engine at this point? Is it the rendering system? Some kind of scene mangament? Gameobject + scripts?
I hate the video games industry and I'm not going to do anything that contributes to it.
yeah, it's a huge letdown when you see it up close, isn't it?
Alright, I look forward to you producing your first game in 1-2 years time then. You’ve got the runway capital to sustain yourself until then, right anon?
>Alright, I look forward to you producing your first game in 1-2 years time then.
He is doing great, then. I have seen people using someone else's engine and still take almost a decade to leave early access.
FRICK that game was comfy. I'm cryin' :^(
For an independent game it can make sense, but if you're using a framework such as SDL2 or something you're not really writing from scratch anyway.
Because unless you're exploring novel techniques or creating one in a niche language you'll just make a shittier godot.
>unless you're exploring novel techniques
If you aren't, you shouldn't be making a game.
Just look at Steam - gaming market is already saturated as it is.
World really doesn't need another shitty generic platformer.
You could and I'd argue should, but there's no shame in using a pre-existing engine either.
Writing an engine is more fun than writing the game so you'll just keep writing it forever. Using an engine leaves you no excuses and you'll have to deal with all the boring non-programming stuff.
There was no need for you to call me out like this.
because the percentage israelites wont make money
Some people have sex.
It's better to make something that sells (a game).
You only have one life to spend time out of.
You should unless you're trying to get an idea turned into a game ASAP so you can sell it.
>pic
Why are they all standing around? There's a farm to work and trees to chop.