>why street fighter 5 is a bad game explained with one image
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>why street fighter 5 is a bad game explained with one image
>why street fighter 5 is a bad game explained with one image
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sf5 bad
but sf6 w/ global ignore neutral mechanic good!
but enough about v-trigger
All those SFV matches that started with jab into V-Trigger, disgusting.
>Muh neutral
Neutral is a game of risk reward, chance and punish.
SFV was called a no footsies games for a reason and if footsies are compromised so is neutral.
Having a dash only means that neutral is faster and not non-existent like SFV, yeah just because you're wiggling back and forth without doing shit doesn't mean it's good neutral.
SFV is one of the most footsie heavy SF games ever.
>SFV was called a no footsies games
Yeah in Season 1. Wake up grandpa, it's not 2016 anymore.
>SFV is one of the most footsie heavy SF games ever.
Kek only Ganker things.
It's true. Not my fault you haven't played the game in half a decade.
It's amazing the power of alternate reality creation in this place, somehow it always catches me off-guard, my autism must be lacking.
It's like I'm seeing "Marvel has no neutral" posts from 10+ years ago all over again.
SF5 image is unironically Strive
Strive is whatever.
Strive's hitboxes all make perfect sense with how Arcsys wants the move to be used and the character to play
Unfortunately, Arcsys is fricking moronic and if they were handed a finished and perfectly balanced game to work on you can be sure that 6 months later with their first update they'd fricking mangle it.
No, Strive shouldn't even be in the image because it's so poorly put together it varies by character whether they have solid hitboxes or if they're absolute garbage, they couldn't even maintain a consistent set of rules across characters for how to do it so it's completely random. Strive is truly trash in every possible way.
Why is varied hitboxes and not "all good" or "all bad" bad? There's definitely favoritism for some characters but not anymore than any other fighting game barring a few.
Because you should have a general philosophy of how the game is going to play and a consistent base your players can expect to work off of, not just throw random things together with no rhyme or reason because you're catering to casuals who don't even know or care what a hitbox is.
>you should have a general philosophy of how the game is going to play
There is one. Be aggressive, don't run away without pressing buttons or using specials, spend meter as soon you can get it, frc, take advantage of your opponent. It's still an anime game with anime bullshit making every character having the same base would be fricking lame. They just like some characters more so they get better stuff.
You can just admit Strive is a shit game man, trying to defend it by saying "the devs made it an inconsistent mess on purpose" is not really a good look.
There's many things shit about strive and reasons to call it shit like having worse movement than previous game, characters that don't have to follow rules of the game or the high damage but saying it's because of the hitboxes not being similar or standard character to character is something I've never seen until today and is the dumbest reason.
I like how you admit there's a ton of reasons to call it a shit game but somehow you take exception to this one being thrown onto the pile. Failing to have consistent hitboxes/hurtboxes is a sign of an incompetent, lazy or stupid dev team, or a combination of the three. If you enjoy munching on the shit that is Strive go ahead but don't try to defend an objectively bad game by just about any metric you care to examine it with.
You do realize virtually no on one Ganker even knows what hitboxes and hurtboxes are, right?
Aren't hitboxes and hurtboxes smash bros terminology, and fighting games use different names?
No.
Smash calls them strike spaces
no they don't
Yes they do. Typically accompanied with a size descriptor. You have small strike space, venti strike space, and grande strike space character actions(smash language for moves)
They call them strikey boxies
No, smash is juvenile and probably uses something like owie spheres or something.
kek
>ouchie orbs
>oofie orbs
are you that guy who used to write about fighting games post the blog here in fighting game threads and then turned into a troony?
Trying too hard jr.
do you really not remember critpoints?
I saw them transition in real time and used to play fighting with xer
I assume you're referring to the moronic list of "what Smash players call X". As somebody who actively pays attention to the Smash scene and still watches tournaments, that list is made up bullshit and I have never seen or heard anyone use any of the moronic terminology from that list. "Friendlies" is used interchangeably from "casuals" and people do say "dittos" instead of "mirror match" but that's about it. None of that shit like "guessies" has even been said.
The fact they use their infantilized "friendlies" and "dittos" terms rather than the proper terms is reason enough to mock them for the rest of eternity. Well, are there are far more reasons to mock and deride Smash players than that, but yeah.
>that kana transliteration
ngmi
smash players call them hitties and hurties
You have to go back.
What? This is like the most basic shit there is, even outside of fighting games hitboxes and related concepts are fundamental videogame mechanics. OP joke should be universally understandable by anyone with even a passing knowledge of what fighting games are like.
That cuts out about 90% of Ganker, bare minimum.
Even normalgays who play nothing but CoD know what a hitbox is.
The sad truth
I know Ganker is full of morons, but I still don't believe that. It's not a hard thing to wrap your head around and if you play enough videogames to post on Ganker, and that's going even for the more casual parts of Ganker, you probably know what hitboxes and hurtboxes are. I imagine most people know what they are just from Dark Souls 2.
I don't get it.
Is blue the attack's area of effect and blue the attacker's vulnerable to attack area?
you wanna try that again anon?
Ok.
Red: area that hurts the opponent if it touches him
Blue: area that if the opponent touches it with an attack the player gets hurt instead
Is that how it works?
Correct. Good and well put together games have hitboxes and hurtboxes that match the animation, and allow for counter poking if you time and space it correctly. Lazier games make it extremely difficult to do this as the animation doesn't match the area of effect of the hitbox (Melty Blood in that image, for example) and the really lazy ones just make the entire area of attack a hitbox with no hurbox whatsoever (Melee).
The Melty Blood one has been memed to death, but no one takes into account the other graphic effects that some attack have and are outside of the character sprites.
the more boxes drawn = better gameplay
>best game is cursed with irrelevancy because people only want street slop
it hurts
What about?
what the hell?
DEATH TRIP
CONFIRMED
Looks like a low effort slav porno
DELET THIS
I WILL SUE
DEATH CARGO DOES NOT EXIST
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Why isn't every game like Skullgirls
Why do they even still use boxes in the first place? Modern games can just use the GPU to do collision detection for each pixel, so that everything matches up exactly with what you see. That's probably what melee is doing since spheres are expensive to calculate, but I have no clue why they use spheres instead of the model's mesh.
Because it's been tried and 99% of the time it feels like shit. It's also very laborious to balance when you have tight coupling between graphics and mechanics, far easier to tweak collision zones than it is to redraw/reanimate a move.
>spheres are expensive to calculate
Sphere on sphere collision detection is literally one of if not the cheapest 3D collision operations, since you're just working out if the distance between two points is less than the sum of the radius of both spheres.
Oh, that makes sense
Because using squares/rectangles for collision detection is just easier for everything. You can make adjustments without having to redraw/re-model
because some characters move around a lot in their idle stance, or have unique "taking a hit" animations, etc, if you make everything 100% based on animations the game will feel very inconsistent and annoying, especially if you have situations where someone falls out of a basic combo if you cancel a couple of frames late or something like that.
If you look at something like Marvel 3 for example, Zero, Arthur, Viewtiful Joe, and a couple of other characters will fall out of combos that work on everybody else. While it's generally accepted that there will be some very character or situation-specific combos in games (especially against big characters) it would get gay really fast if every combo had to be tailor made for your opponent and what part of their animation you hit them in.
even skullgirls hitboxes aren't like that anymore because after years of the game actually being played, the super-exact hitboxes make for weird scenarios where combos feel like they'll randomly drop and close-range attacks whiff because of very specific spacing
having the hitboxes closely match the visuals is fine but if you get to the point where they don't cover the range of motion that's meant to be represented by the 3 frame animation (as well as extending back to the rest of the character's body) you're going to wind up making a game that feels janky to play until post-release patches fix those up
you don't actually want tight hitboxes you want the illusion of tight hitboxes (which sometime requires them to be not so tight)
Matching the models/sprites 1:1 means you basically cannot rebalance any move without reanimating it, and you are heavily limited with how each move can look if you want to give it certain properties. Want a move to avoid lows? Better make sure it's a move where the character is 3+ feet off the ground then, instead of an equally visually clear hop that gets across that property.
I miss footsies, specially after playing against Juri players who can only do raw drive rush over and over again.
Its great to see actual spacing and pressure that's not some raw midscreen neutral skip with plus frames out the ass or some dumb random armored move that leads to half your life gone because you dared to use a non cancellable button as a poke.
>fgcucks be like "WHOAAA"
I still laugh at that time when the Smash community "discovered" wakeup DPs and called them "mamma mia"
I've never heard of any of this shit.
It's a meme, those are fake.
Smash does have unique names for shit though.
Oki is usually Tech-something. Like Tech-chase/Tech-in-Option
Ehhh, they are technically different. Smash does have knock-down states. They're the state you usually end up in if you miss the tech window. From that we've got get-up attacks, jab resets, buffer rolling, etc.. I'd guess we haven't adopted the general names for that state of play because missing techs is sub--optimal.
I've never understood the need for hitboxes. Why not just make the model itself a hit and hurt"box"?
Legit question, btw. I genuinely want to know what the reasoning is behind making hitboxes and hurtboxes extend outwards from the player model.
It's easier to be more lenient on the player than more restrictive. If you have the hurtbox very narrow and the 3D object JUST BARELY misses its target, players are going to call the game bugged and unreliable. If the hurtbox/enemy hitbox is noticeably bigger than the 3D object and it hits when it probably would've been a miss, then the player will just shrug and assume they're getting better at the game.
Plus, hits on a target will typically produce some kind of stagger animation on the target, which helps to hide any sort of strangeness with the hitbox/hurtbox not fully lining up.
Collision detection tied to the model places a lot more work on the processor. Maybe we're at the point where the technology can handle it well enough while maintaining constant 60 frames, and there are shooters that do this, but with fighting games it's a different experience. You might just lose mechanics instead of gaining anything.
Modern Mortal Kombat does it and it feels wrong, the poorly animated attacks don't help.
I don't get the Tekken one.
Tekken is 3D and so uses 3D vectors to determine hitboxes and hurtboxes. The fancy hexagons are intended to be icosahedrons (like a 20-sided dice) and roughly approximate spheres. They're covering the character sprite in a similar manner that a box in a 2D fighter would do.
The "HIGH" is because the hit registers as either a high, mid, or low strike, regardless of where the character hurtbox lands on the opponent.
Which is why you have bullshit in Tekken where a move that should, by property, hit someone, whiff completely, or vice versa, hit when it makes absolutely no sense. Certain stances and moves are notorious for causing this effect, like Pauls d/f+2 randomly ducking under jabs or Xiaoyus AoP avoiding half or more of the mids in the game.
Thank you.
Fighting Game newb here: Can anyone explain what I'm supposed to see from this? No bias. Just explain it exactly as OP intends to communicate it please.
If red touches blue on the enemy it does damage.
I know what hitboxes and hurtboxes are morons, I'm trying to understand the nuance regarding what's being presented and what they're trying to imply about Street Fighter 5.
Street Fighter in general just likes to pick certain moves and make them extremely whiff punishable as a balancing mechanic. Sometimes to ridiculous levels. If you're trying to use a move that looks and feels great when hitting a training dummy but doesn't seem to work in a match, you need to remember what game you're playing.
Okay, sorry. I thought you were new. Let me treat you more like a proper moron.
Are you fricking blind?
Just look at the image.
Do you see the difference?
Do you see anything different here?
Doesn't the tiny-ass hurtbox mean anything to you?
Can't you see a problem with it ending half a mile before the end of the character sprite?
Get your ass back to /r/eddit.
The blue boxes are hitboxes. They are where a character can be hurt. If an attack would overlap with the hurtbox, the character takes damage.
The red boxes are hurtboxes. They are where a character's attack will hurt the enemy if it connects with their hitbox.
The different images give a rather memetic representation of how each different fighting game treats hitboxes and hurtboxes during character attacks. A lot of this isn't going to be necessary to learn unless you really want to get into the nitty gritty about specific attack ranges and whiff punishes.
General gameplay philosophy can be derived from how the game handles hitboxes (red) and hurtboxes (blue)
Lots of hitbox and not a lot of hurtbox means you play aggressive
Lots of hurtbox and not a lot of hitbox means you play defensive
Insane amounts of subdivisions means autism
this is the medium? show the light and heavy I refuse to believe it's the same hitbox on all three. But in my heart I know it is.
Smash actually uses blue to represent that the hurtboxes have gone invulnerable. Yellow is the default for the vulnerable hurtboxes.
play a game with some REAL footsies
Rare footage of a Baiken doing something other than IAD jS/tatami
out fricking skilled
deserved
he knew what kind of opponent he was playing 2 seconds in. he did the right thing and then threw his entire gameplan out the window.
this happens to me often when I keep attacking into people with strong reversals instead of just baiting.
tatamegash
kof xv has shitty hitboxes too
What's a good fighting game to start with?
SF6 if you just want something basic, Strive if you're more into anime, maybe MK1 if that looks cool to you, and probably Tekken 8 when that comes out. Pretty much all modern stuff has good enough tutorials to teach you what you need to know to get started and live enough online to find other people in the same skill bracket to play against.
Street Fighter is the most fundamental representation of 2D fighters. If you start with it you'll learn the general concepts and you can start branching out from there if you don't like it or just want something different.
3D is a fricked up genre because Tekken is the only relevant series outside of Japan right now. If you don't like it then you'll be forced to play something that has a small or nonexistent player base.
Anything that has either lots of players, rollback, crossplay, and or loads of information on the game or characters readily available at an Internet search away and not stuck in a fricking discord. Preferably all 4 but you could cut it down the #2 and #4 if you think something looks cool enough and are willing to get stomped.
DNF Duel
I kneel
Honestly, whatever looks cool. You are going to be your own motivation to keep playing and simply playing enough is how you'll get decent, so something you enjoy just screwing around in is more valuable than something with a "good" starting experience.
That said, SF6 is probably the best introduction. Say what you will about its mechanics, but there's a lot of game to screw around in and most of it involves getting better at playing the game. If you don't have a bias towards anything else, then go for SF6. Anything else I might recommend will probably come off as clucky with dead online anyway.
Literally whatever one you like to play. Don't force yourself to play a game (usually some Street Fighter) if you don't enjoy it just because people say that's what you should learn on.
That said having people to play against is important which is why people recommend the big names. You learn very little beating up AI all day
Kyanta 2
You'll eventually get your ass thoroughly beat or run into some other wall no matter what game you choose so go with what looks fun and interesting, preferably something with a good netcode, maybe rollback, and with some community. Doesn't need to be huge, even with 24h peaks of 100-200 players according to Steam charts you should be able to find some shitters and newbies and you can always go look for some Discord communities.
Don't want to deal with some bullshit drama in there? Get a rash or something just thinking about trannies? Just keep your head down and play the game, everything else is a waste of time and has nothing to do with the video game you want to play.
The first time I went online in a FG was GG Xrd Rev 2, I played it again today. Saw it in EVO 2017 and it looked so cool I wanted to try it, got it when it came to PC at the end of summer 2017. I wouldn't call it an easy game but it's also nowhere near the hardest game for a newbie.
Anything new with an active playerbase. So like strive,tekken 7, SF6 or 5.
>or 5.
nta but trying to learn 5 because 6 is cringe, and the game is so much harder, the mechanics aren't as...how do I say this...blatant? Like it obviously to just spam drive rush when you want to get in, drive impact if you want to bruteforce through neutral or mixup in the corner, drive parry if want to defend without blocking but...V trigger, even when I turn it on...the game doesn't suddenly play itself, I still have to do the execution and get my hitconfirms. It just feels so...different, so much more direct? I almost want to say pure, but I think people would get mad at that, so the best way I can put it, is that it's like drinking a bowl a milk...without the cereal, it's just you and the milk, nothing in-between to give you flavour, you just gotta drink the whole bowl...and that's weird and harder for me to acclimate to.
Not to mention that It takes so long to get matches that when I get stomped i don't feel like I can get an immediate next match to get some perspective, and sometimes I get stomped so hard that people don't even rematch...So I've just been sitting in combo trials for a while, some day I'll regain the courage to reenter ranked.
Whichever one you think looks the coolest. I started with KOF for this reason, now I basically only play 2002UM and 15. I wouldn't say I'm great at them but I'm slowly learning more and more and that is a great feeling.
hop on hftf amigo
None. Hop on anything or don't.
The fighting game that you like. Dumb frogposter.
both SF6 and Strive are pretty good for starting out, but in the end your willingness to learn/grind games will come from if you enjoy a game or not. look around for whatever you think looks cool, then work from there.
Arcana heart 3
:3
SF6 if you want a decent somewhat active game, Tekken if you want to have fun with friends, but play whatever yout think looks cool.
This anon has the right idea.
6 is good for beginners, unless they add new mechanics in season 2 but that's gonna happen in the second half of 2024 at most.
I'm not really in the know on fighting games, what does the blue boxes represent? I'm guessing red indicates a damage hitbox, but I was always confused by blue since there is a ton of overlap. I'd assume it's a vulnerable point but can you be vulnerable and hit in the same box?
Red box touch blue box and man with blue box get hit.
That is correct, blue is the hurtbox that you hit to deal damage to the opponent. So if they throw out this long ranged poking kick but they miss you can hit them in the leg to punish because the kick has extended their hurtbox outwards.
Skullgirls is the only one that makes sense, and I say that as someone that HATES Skullgirls.
let me guess
Hitboxes good because
>DURR IT SHOULD MATCH ANIMATION
And skullgirls bad because
>LE WOKE LEFTISTS
>melee
needs more disjointed hitboxes.
melee is like kof hitboxes except bubbles, unless you're marth
Post the one with Plesioth
I don't play many fighting games but KoF looks the best
How did you deal with whiffing inputs while starting FGs? I can do 2x QC, DP etc consistently well in training and such. But actual fights eventually I started fricking up inputs pretty often, unable to do 2xQC. It's like my brain fries after hour-hour and half.
don't worry about winning the match, focus on just landing the thing you want in a live environment. you're panicking when you land a hit because you aren't used to converting mid match. if you're playing SF6 specifically go into the battle hub and casual matches and just grind out trying to land combos in a match, they also made the timing tighter on QCF/B supers because people kept getting them by accident when doing walk forward DP so try doing them faster.
If there were an easy solution there wouldn't be an endless tide of people complaining about motion inputs every time a new fighting game came out
>and why melty blood is civilizations greatest success
>strivers will defend this
>On-Block -19
>soive
>person crying about the easiest GG game ever made cannot punish a move that is -19
maybe fortnite no build is more your speed
ft10
in what, strive? I thought you disliked the game, now you want to play a set?
any game you want
>cancel into servant shoot for a 1 frame frametrap
gg ez
>Punishes with Gunflame
>Takes 20 seconds to do again
>Ragequits because he couldn't dash in and go on offense
Flowcharters are less than subhuman
Why not just make the hitboxes pixel perfect to the body? Would make the game feel better too.
it has been explained multiple times in this thread anon
fighting games should let you parry out of anything at any point, frick combogays