>Built in Choice Band >Steel type >Gets Aurora Veil >Marginally used more early on before never showing up again >Uses early VGC usage when Calyrex-S is used way more and Spectrier is banned in Singles (while Glastrier is PU)
>>this disingenuous image
They like to cherry pick certain things in order to support their strawman. The same also happens for Grass and Rock.
it's because there will be mass anal devastation if a certain fossil pokémon loosely based on the amargasaurus got buffed because that would destroy their strawmen
>The same also happens for Grass and Rock.
Not really.
The only benefits of Ice are getting STAB on Ice moves and resisting Ice, while being weak to 4 types including Rocks.
Grass has merit because it resists Ground and Water, and then is immune to powder moves. They also get STAB on Grass attacks, which are super effective on Ground and Water.
Even if it has more weaknesses, it makes up for it by having quality resistances.
>Even if it has more weaknesses, it makes up for it by having quality resistances.
It's more like flying moves aren't common, Poison as a coverage option gets fricked by steel switchins and that offensively the good grassmons have access to good stabs with 90+bp or Giga Drain.
Grass is unironically not a bad type at all. Having a lot of weaknesses does suck (though keep in mind some like Poison are nearly irrelevant), but Grass's resistances to Water, Electric, and Ground are all incredibly useful. Offensively it also benefits immensely from being one of only two types with a good matchup against Water, even if it's otherwise resisted by a lot of Pokemon.
Outside of purely type matchups Grass also benefits hugely from near-exclusive access to strong status moves like Leech Seed, Spore, and Sleep Powder as well as immunity to those moves.
Grass is a shit type though, it's also weak to U-Turn. How many Grass legendaries do you see in OU? There's also only two Grass-type Ubers, Arceus-Grass and Shaymin-Sky, with Shaymin actually held back by its Grass-typing. It would unironically be better as a pure Flying type since Seed Flare is so commonly resisted.
If GF ever gave up their hard on for Dragon and Psychic legendaries, a 680 BST box legend without a broken siggy would probably be OU. You need massive bulk in the modern game to not get 2HKO by a neutral, boosted STAB or move.
Do you just resort to these shitty pics? I'm not on the grass is bad aude but you aren't making a good point.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>but you aren't making a good point.
yes I am. Play the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Such as what exactly?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You said that Grass is shit type, which is just flat out incorrect. Resisiting Water and Ground moves + being immune to powder moves is pretty important niche. Also a lot of them has relevant synergies with sunny weather. Mind you I don't even touch competitive and I know more about it than you apparently.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Resisiting Water and Ground moves
Most OU Grass-types are neutral to EQ, the only relevant ones where the resistance matters are Tangrowth and Rillaboom.
Resisting Water isn't that big a deal because Dragon and other Water types also resist Water, while not inviting easy switches with a commonly x4 resisted Grass STAB.
You are giving way too much credit to just a few resistances, ignoring that Grass has more weaknesses than resistances and those weaknesses are to common offensive types, while Grass offensively stinks being one of the most common x4 resisted types in the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Venusaur is amazing
2 years ago
Anonymous
>GENWUN starter with a broken ability and extremely wide move pool is amazing
Venusaur can’t exactly be used as a representative for the average Grass tyoe
2 years ago
Anonymous
Chlorophyll isn't that broken.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Clorophyll >Broken
GIT
GUD
2 years ago
Anonymous
>broken ability
guess which type has exclusive access?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Also a lot of them has relevant synergies with sunny weather
But Venusaur is the only good Chloro user, and is neutral to ground. Sun is shit because the best users of it are grassmons who are weak to ground and ONLY Venusaur has ground coverage to hit Fire. Sun is worse then Hail because at least A-Ninetales cn do shit asides form set up screen.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>But Venusaur is the only good Chloro user
Vileplume was used plenty before Venusaur was released in SS so not really.
>Sun is shit
The most commonly used weather is shit? Yep, you don't play the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sun got kneecapped too many times to remain good.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah that must be why it's still extremely commonly used.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sun is only used for CHARIZARD
2 years ago
Anonymous
and venusaur
and incineroar
and literally any other pokemon with a fire move or is weak to water
but keep shitposting instead of playing the game, I'm sure it'll get you far.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Resisiting Water and Ground moves + being immune to powder moves is pretty important niche.
Not as straight forward as that. Especially when ground and water mons have answers to them. Grass mons unlike most typings they have huge gap between the shit mons and the viable ones, mainly because many of them have shit movepools or compete with extremely crowded niches. That's why the ones that can differentiate themselves as subseeder, cleric or a sweeper/wallbreaker.
It's mainly GF's fault why so many have ass movepools or wack design choices that clash with typing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lilligent has two spore moves, SR Neutrality and had QD. That is all great. It's movepool is right outta Gen 1 where it's options are STAB and Nature Power.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>pokemon with shit movepools are bad!
yeah this is definitely a problem with grass type and not literally everything in the game
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Mind you I don't even touch competitive
We already knew that, anon.
This is such a bad argument.
Pokémon are not or bad just because of their type. They are several factors that determine that, BST, Stat Distro, Movepool and its ability. A Pokémon is good because at least 2 or more of those are good. Of course the more of those attributes you excel at the better. You can be good despite having an awful typing.
Ice Type is TERRIBLE on the defense and GF's mold for ice-types is "Glacier" aka Slow and Bulky. Which is an awful fit for a Type with so many weaknesses and no resistances. Of course, not all Ice types are defensive and what do you know, the most successful ones ARE the ones built for agro.
Ice is a “Glass Canon” type, so the Pokémon who do that work better for it.
Slush Rush is banned from NU and below, and Snow Cloak is universally banned via evasion clause, so Alolan Sandslash is indirectly banned from NU due to both of its abilities being banned.
>Gorilla Tactics >banned from NU because of slush rush >Snow Warning Aurora Veil shenanigans
Off these only A-Ninetails would not benefit from not being ice type simply because of Hail
>Snow Warning Aurora Veil shenanigans
honestly it's not that compicated, it's just that A-Ninetales is the best Hail setter while K-Ninetales is not the best Sun setter.
K-Ninetales is not even close to bad, but smogon tiering is smogon tiering after all
being fast enough to set aurora veil is pretty much the reason alolan ninetales is the best hail setter though, since it is otherwise the worst weather by far
Keep in mind it has bolt beak, and with hail up it can outspeed base 150 mons
play the game
>Built in Choice Band
>Steel type
>Gets Aurora Veil
>Marginally used more early on before never showing up again
>Uses early VGC usage when Calyrex-S is used way more and Spectrier is banned in Singles (while Glastrier is PU)
Hisuian Avalugg rapes your shit strawman like it's a low-caste woman in India, so get fricked.
How? Avalugg was already ice type, it’s nothing like anon’s comparison.
Slush Rush + Bolt Beak is amazing anon, you stupid or what?
>this disingenuous image
Sandslash-Alola wasn't even banned from NU on purpose, lmao
>>this disingenuous image
They like to cherry pick certain things in order to support their strawman. The same also happens for Grass and Rock.
it's because there will be mass anal devastation if a certain fossil pokémon loosely based on the amargasaurus got buffed because that would destroy their strawmen
>The same also happens for Grass and Rock.
Not really.
The only benefits of Ice are getting STAB on Ice moves and resisting Ice, while being weak to 4 types including Rocks.
Grass has merit because it resists Ground and Water, and then is immune to powder moves. They also get STAB on Grass attacks, which are super effective on Ground and Water.
Even if it has more weaknesses, it makes up for it by having quality resistances.
>Even if it has more weaknesses, it makes up for it by having quality resistances.
It's more like flying moves aren't common, Poison as a coverage option gets fricked by steel switchins and that offensively the good grassmons have access to good stabs with 90+bp or Giga Drain.
Grass is unironically not a bad type at all. Having a lot of weaknesses does suck (though keep in mind some like Poison are nearly irrelevant), but Grass's resistances to Water, Electric, and Ground are all incredibly useful. Offensively it also benefits immensely from being one of only two types with a good matchup against Water, even if it's otherwise resisted by a lot of Pokemon.
Outside of purely type matchups Grass also benefits hugely from near-exclusive access to strong status moves like Leech Seed, Spore, and Sleep Powder as well as immunity to those moves.
Grass is a shit type though, it's also weak to U-Turn. How many Grass legendaries do you see in OU? There's also only two Grass-type Ubers, Arceus-Grass and Shaymin-Sky, with Shaymin actually held back by its Grass-typing. It would unironically be better as a pure Flying type since Seed Flare is so commonly resisted.
If GF ever gave up their hard on for Dragon and Psychic legendaries, a 680 BST box legend without a broken siggy would probably be OU. You need massive bulk in the modern game to not get 2HKO by a neutral, boosted STAB or move.
>Grass is a shit type though
play the game
Do you just resort to these shitty pics? I'm not on the grass is bad aude but you aren't making a good point.
>but you aren't making a good point.
yes I am. Play the game.
Such as what exactly?
You said that Grass is shit type, which is just flat out incorrect. Resisiting Water and Ground moves + being immune to powder moves is pretty important niche. Also a lot of them has relevant synergies with sunny weather. Mind you I don't even touch competitive and I know more about it than you apparently.
>Resisiting Water and Ground moves
Most OU Grass-types are neutral to EQ, the only relevant ones where the resistance matters are Tangrowth and Rillaboom.
Resisting Water isn't that big a deal because Dragon and other Water types also resist Water, while not inviting easy switches with a commonly x4 resisted Grass STAB.
You are giving way too much credit to just a few resistances, ignoring that Grass has more weaknesses than resistances and those weaknesses are to common offensive types, while Grass offensively stinks being one of the most common x4 resisted types in the game.
Venusaur is amazing
>GENWUN starter with a broken ability and extremely wide move pool is amazing
Venusaur can’t exactly be used as a representative for the average Grass tyoe
Chlorophyll isn't that broken.
>Clorophyll
>Broken
GIT
GUD
>broken ability
guess which type has exclusive access?
>Also a lot of them has relevant synergies with sunny weather
But Venusaur is the only good Chloro user, and is neutral to ground. Sun is shit because the best users of it are grassmons who are weak to ground and ONLY Venusaur has ground coverage to hit Fire. Sun is worse then Hail because at least A-Ninetales cn do shit asides form set up screen.
>But Venusaur is the only good Chloro user
Vileplume was used plenty before Venusaur was released in SS so not really.
>Sun is shit
The most commonly used weather is shit? Yep, you don't play the game.
Sun got kneecapped too many times to remain good.
yeah that must be why it's still extremely commonly used.
Sun is only used for CHARIZARD
and venusaur
and incineroar
and literally any other pokemon with a fire move or is weak to water
but keep shitposting instead of playing the game, I'm sure it'll get you far.
>Resisiting Water and Ground moves + being immune to powder moves is pretty important niche.
Not as straight forward as that. Especially when ground and water mons have answers to them. Grass mons unlike most typings they have huge gap between the shit mons and the viable ones, mainly because many of them have shit movepools or compete with extremely crowded niches. That's why the ones that can differentiate themselves as subseeder, cleric or a sweeper/wallbreaker.
It's mainly GF's fault why so many have ass movepools or wack design choices that clash with typing.
Lilligent has two spore moves, SR Neutrality and had QD. That is all great. It's movepool is right outta Gen 1 where it's options are STAB and Nature Power.
>pokemon with shit movepools are bad!
yeah this is definitely a problem with grass type and not literally everything in the game
>Mind you I don't even touch competitive
We already knew that, anon.
>with Shaymin actually held back by its Grass-typing.
What?
Fire types are also shit so that is a moot point
This is such a bad argument.
Pokémon are not or bad just because of their type. They are several factors that determine that, BST, Stat Distro, Movepool and its ability. A Pokémon is good because at least 2 or more of those are good. Of course the more of those attributes you excel at the better. You can be good despite having an awful typing.
Ice Type is TERRIBLE on the defense and GF's mold for ice-types is "Glacier" aka Slow and Bulky. Which is an awful fit for a Type with so many weaknesses and no resistances. Of course, not all Ice types are defensive and what do you know, the most successful ones ARE the ones built for agro.
Ice is a “Glass Canon” type, so the Pokémon who do that work better for it.
BASED
Then why is Alolan Sandslash below RU?
Slush Rush is banned from NU and below, and Snow Cloak is universally banned via evasion clause, so Alolan Sandslash is indirectly banned from NU due to both of its abilities being banned.
>Gorilla Tactics
>banned from NU because of slush rush
>Snow Warning Aurora Veil shenanigans
Off these only A-Ninetails would not benefit from not being ice type simply because of Hail
>Snow Warning Aurora Veil shenanigans
honestly it's not that compicated, it's just that A-Ninetales is the best Hail setter while K-Ninetales is not the best Sun setter.
K-Ninetales is not even close to bad, but smogon tiering is smogon tiering after all
being fast enough to set aurora veil is pretty much the reason alolan ninetales is the best hail setter though, since it is otherwise the worst weather by far
Snow Warning would give it hail immunity anyways, that's how weather abilities work.
>only 3 mons
>"DUDE EVERY SINGLE ICE TYPE IS LE GOOD NOW!"
Based smongoloid.
cope shitter
G-darmatian is good because he has choice banda as an ability and maintains it's fire moves
G-Darm could be bug and he'd be good
Slush Rush + Bolt Beak
Anything that isnt rotom heat or dogshit early gen 7 Alolawak gets obliterated.
>fast electric/ice stab under hail + veil with the electric part being base 170 for some god damn reason
Because it's not a shitmon.
Bolt Beak with Slush Rush and Boltbeam coverage are devastating.
I would love /vp/ jannies to have balls to permaban people for using buzzword like "shitmon", "level curve" etc. You don't deserve to be alive.
Would you prefer baddy bad mons?
Because the smogpedos failed to lure a child into their child grooming acts with an arctozolt plush doll, so it gets banned.
>something something
>good point outside of fanfic meta
P-PLAY THE G-GAME CHUD!
>points outside of the Definitive meta
>ever being good
cool story troony