Why was a good RPG using 4e ruleset never made? There are great games for every other edition of D&D, and 4e on the face of it seems the most suited for video game adaptation, having the most tactical combat, so it's odd that it's the one man out.
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D&D rulesets are dogshit for videogame combat, regardless of edition.
You're better off just making a game in the D&D setting with good gameplay instead.
Nah, KotC, Solasta, Temple of Elemental Evil are all good tactical games.
No, they're not. They're passable in spite of the limitations and poor design.
D&D systems are made as a loose framework for roleplaying and have an immense amount of utter dogshit design that only sort of works beause of the roleplaying, houserules and improvisation present in PnP.
Its clear now youve only ever played 5e
It's clear how you know nothing about system or combat design.
D&D rules are archaic and poorly thought out and were only intended as something to loosely roleplay around with a semblance of structure and some elements out of roleplayers control.
If you can't even grasp this then you're either massively ignorant or exceptionally irrationaly biased in favor of D&D. End of story. I have no interest in educating a stubborn ignoramus.
D&D rules in general were just shit grafted onto what was a wargame at the time. That's why the entire thing is just suited for dungeon delving.
Play a real game troony
Im this guy, btw
And also, play DnD for once, a short B/X, AD&D or OD&D Dungeon campaign might suffice.
Well done, anon, you stood firm in your beliefs. Now go ask mommy for some chicken tenders, you've earned them today.
NTA but that comment definitely holds true for 2e
>Stack your die as high as possible and then faceroll anything with natural d20
>Good tactical games
And that is without considering how shitty ToEE is as an adaptation of the original campaign AND a game
Solasta and ToEE are not good tactical games.
[citation needed]
Id say OD&D and AD&D can fit nicely into video games, as we can see by games like wizardry that closely adopt its combat systems.
What RPGs do you play?
I liked 5E games and 3.5E games
BG3 perfected the dnd combat imo, when you have a talented developer they will make combat work.
I wished Larian would make a 3.5E game but alas WOTC and Hasbro are just shitters
>BG3 perfected the dnd combat imo, when you have a talented developer they will make combat work.
The combat in BG3 is terrible, what the frick are you on about? They basically made every single amateurish turn based combat mistake they possibly could.
The RNG, the horrible pacing, the grids, all of it.
That sounds like DnD combat to me
4e was such a huge flop that it was shitcanned after three years and D&D was just a dead brand for the next three until 5e came out. Unpopular products don't get adaptations.
What was so bad about it?
Analog video game where nothing has a narrative justification.
Narrative justification does not mean what you think it means.
I haven't played 4e and I don't really have an opinion about it myself (i was just not interested in it), but from talking to other ttrpg people I gathered that one of the big dislikes people had for it was "gamey" or "mmorpg-like" mechanics that were thematically inconsistent or had no/nonsensical fluff. Like some martial character could just randomly give modifiers to everyone for a round and the ability made no in-world sense. Literally a problem with the fluff, not just the rules.
Again, I don't have a horse in the race and this is just what I've been told. I do remember reading some pretty good article/blog where some specific powers were talked and how they created narrative problems because they made very little sense fluff-wise. I'm explaining it all pretty shittily here but hopefully you get the gist of it.
Here's some autism to get people mad:
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/17231/roleplaying-games/dissociated-mechanics-a-brief-primer
This article sucks, as always, because the author pretends that the multitude of dissociative mechanics in D&D prior were never there because he was comfortable with them and wrote them off as abstractions.
I don't necessarily agree with the article, but in the end it's a matter of taste. Some people just didn't like how 4e felt, maybe because they were so stuck in 3.5e or maybe because they genuinely felt that the game was somehow "off".
The article pretty much equates to an attempt at rationalizing why someone prefers a different flavour of juice to another variety. I just posted it as an example how some people experienced it, not my personal truth.
I'm fine with someone not liking 4E for whatever reason. It's a very focused game and not everyone is down for a system focused on tactical combat. The problem is that it has always attracted an enormous amount of morons who pretend the game was objectively bad and a lot of people who will straight up lie about it.
Well, yeah, edition wars are kinda like console wars in the way that anyone getting heavily involved in them is an actual moron. I can kinda get the idea that badly fluffed mechanics can be kinda grating, but at the same time if people enjoy playing it as a game who gives a frick.
I've played DnD a bit but I have a bunch of friends who are fanatics. Of all of them only one had good things to say about 4e. Extrapolating from this small pool and what I've heard, seems tgat 4e pissed off about most of the DnD players.
Not really sure but it was like the worst stuff from ADnD and 3.5 pooled together without the good stuff. Most of the players I know switched to pathfinder. From what I've seen 5e is like a simplyfied version of 3.5 but with some restrictions to prevent excessive munchkinism.
>Extrapolating from this small pool and what I've heard, seems tgat 4e pissed off about most of the DnD players.
This is why ~~*Hasbro and WotC*~~ said fine, if our customers don't like our product, we'll just get a different set of customers, hence 5th ed. It's also how we got P*thfinder.
That is true, 4e was not a good idea. 3.5 had so many things that were well liked, and 4e tried to do away with all of them. That's how PF got so popular, a new ruleset that tried to build off 3.5. Alas PF got fricked in other ways, also making it worse than 3.5.
Speculating, I think what most people want is a 5e built off 3.5, i.e. a ruleset that maintains the good parts of 3.5 but streamlined to not be so bloated and convoluted in some areas, and to some degree flattened to avoid the scaling problems. If possible it would also be good to consider the videogame conversion so games can be more faithfully adapted, perhaps even in rtwp, but that is a secondary concern.
4E was actually exactly what was being asked for at the time. Most of its quirks were direct responses to the flaws of 3E. Same thing happened to Pathfinder with Pathfinder 2E, it's the way it is because PF1E's bullshit kept ruining the CEO's games. Just tells you how little most people know what they really want.
>4E was actually exactly what was being asked for at the time
No, it's meant to appeal to the kind of 400lb autistic morons that collect mtg cards and played WoW, so there you go because you really really want this off topic discussion.
If you want to be a janitor, go apply.
That's the truth, moron. 5e was also marketed as fixing the problems of 3e. And guess what? It was more successful at this than 4e and is a much better ruleset. Which is why no one plays 4e. But people still play 3e and lots of people play 5e. So you're just wrong, but you can't accept this and will keep crying like an asshurt baby. Delete more posts, autistic homosexual janny. Maybe you'll trick at least one moron and get the validation you seek.
Shut the frick up and quit sperging, moeblob.
I'm the grognard you pretend to be and I'm one of like 1000 people worldwide that still plays actual 3.5e. Except unlike you I'm not an insecure sperglord and I don't need everyone to play my system to feel validated, and I can adapt to other systems because I'm not a moron poser.
>I play 3.5, I'm such a grognard!
Is this supposed to be an ironic post?
Tabletop games ultimately live and die on table-by-table basis. If you have a steady group willing to play your specific game you're set. People make the mistake of treating the hobby as if it was video games or more specifically MMORPGs. You don't need some massive community of active players for a game to be "alive" when it comes to tabletop RPGs.
Then why make this 136 post monument to your asshurt? Sure seems like you're upset you only have 5 trannies on discord to pretend to play with.
Pretending that everyone is the OP does not make them the OP. The fact is that you're wrong and you're incapable of not throwing a tantrum because you're autistic.
Anon, there are not enough 4e players for it to be anyone other than OP. You are not fooling anyone.
>Anon, there are not enough 4e players for it to be anyone other than OP.
I can look at the 4e general on /tg/ and see it gets 2 posts a week. Unless every 4e player on the planet has simultaneously converged on this thread then it is statistically impossible for it to be more than one person.
/tg/ is not representative of what games get played.
Yes it is. No one is playing 4e. You are a faker.
>It's not happening in front of my eyes so it doesn't happen
Yes, thank you for telling us about your solipsism.
There haven't been proper 4e generals on /tg/ in years. The 4e threads that occasionally pop up end up being nothing but a couple obsessed autists replying to their own shitposts about how 4e is the devil and raped their grandma or whatever.
So exactly like this thread?
Basically. Its kinda of amazing how triggered people still are by that game 15 years later. 5e, 3.5, and pf generals are all fine, but the second a 4e one pops up it gets immediately pounced on.
It even has the same exact image. You literally made the thread its just everyone making fun of you. There have been prior 4e generals but it was just one guy samegayging. (probably you)
>different filenames
One is a phone filename to denote a saved duplicate.
Why would someone save a duplicate of a file they already have? Use your brain.
It was a huge flop BY HASBRO'S STANDARDS because they were expecting MMO-tier money which D&D has not and never will pull in. By less moronic standards, it outperformed 3.5 and Pathfinder and it not getting adaptations beyond Daggerdale, Neverwinter, and Facebook games has nothing to do with the quality of the game and everything to do with a lawsuit over video game rights that spanned most of 4E's lifespan.
Theatre of the mind.
>This thread literally has absolutely nothing to do with VIDEO GAMES
Really, anon? Did you read OP?
This is the first time I've ever made it. It is literally about video game adaptations.
>I've seen this thread like 10 times already this year.
Brutal self-own
Honestly that's a missed opportunity since 4E ruleset was tailor made for vidya adaptations. Neverwinter, the MMORPG, technically uses it, but it's largely just for familiar terminology since being an action game it can't really adapt it properly.
Are there good adventures (dnd or other) in the underdark?
No. There's a whole game set in it, called Menzobarenzan (or however you spell that ridiculous word) and it isn't very good.
That's what I thought.
Before bg3 I thought they are generally well written and have a lot of thought in them.
I started reading the adventure path preceeding bg3 and was buffed - it's garbage. The I got curious and read like a dozen - all garbage.
Should've known better after kingmaker.
(the games story was apparently better than the ap, so the game got it's own ap years after release)
They legally couldn't from 2009 to 2011.
This thread has everything to do with video games. Go frick yourself, autist.
The entire topic is about video game adaptation of a ruleset?
You have autism, but the bad kind, not the good kind.
I literally just woke up and this isn't my thread you autistic homosexual.
OP broke the rules and should have been banned immediately, but of course such a shit thread was probably made by the moronic janny anyways. So now he's here, taking a huge dump in this thread, and making a bunch of other shitty threads, because the moderation is useless and wants as little on topic discussion as possible.
No, he didn't. Discussion of theoretical RPGs is on topic.
Ignore the seething hall monitor schizo, his purpose is, ironically, to ensure there is as little on-topic discussion as possible.
>Discussion of theoretical RPGs is on topic.
"Is mayonaisse an RPG?" is definitely not on topic.
This topic is not on topic is not an RPG topic. I recommend Stoicism.
>"Is mayonaisse an RPG?" is definitely not on topic.
It's time to log off, schizo-kun
>in today's episode of the "I don't like people talking about things I don't like, and I will complain about the quality of the board's threads and posts. My proposed solution to the alleged low quality? I will threaten to intentionally make them worse and do precisely what I'm complaining about, that will show you" schizo's daily meltdown
>daily
hourly
Of course they do, do you think DnD has always employed Tactical combat in Dungeon? It shows How limited you are.
No, it's a categorization question and rules lawyering from a person with no authority, especially when you belabour the point across the board for hours and hours every day. Focus on what you can control in life, not that which you cannot. You've already been given the tools you need, so hide the thread or become a janny.
>The only thing wizardry has in common with adnd is vancian magic
and hit points and levels and armor class and experience and items and classes and races and
everything i posted was true, it even has dual classing.
but they got the base idea from ad&d, so it remains that wizardry is a direct descendant of ad&d and has a lot of things in common apart from vancian magic.
1) That's what DDI was intended to be with a virtual tabletop. Problem number one: Atari had the license in 2008 and made going all in on it legally impossible. Problem number two: Wizards of the Coast fricking sucks at digital development and put a very unstable man as the sole developer in charge of the virtual tabletop. He proceeded to shoot his wife and an hero while leaving behind spaghetti code noone could read, which forced WotC to scrap the VTT.
2) Lifespan. 4E was active from 2008 to 2012, and more practically, a shit lead developer that was hostile to 4E killed it in 2010 with D&D Essentials. Sure, D&D games like Neverwinter Nights 2 had 2 years of development, but that was based off of a preexisting game and engine by a studio that was familiar with D&D due to prior experience AND -
3) Timeframe. 4E came out during the Great Recession. Greenlighting a big project like a new Baldur's Gate tier game in a risk averse environment was never going to happen and this is also right when game development began ballooning in cost and time.
4) Atari. Atari had the license and was doing frick all with it aside from getting shitware like Daggerdale made. They started licensing out D&D shitware to Bandai Namco en masse in 2009 and WotC sued to try to get the rights for D&D video games back over it, which was only resolved in 2011.
tl;dr: Was never going to happen due to factors that had nothing to do with the system.
Thank you anon, that is a good answer.
>Atari. Atari had the license and was doing frick all with it aside from getting shitware like Daggerdale made. They started licensing out D&D shitware to Bandai Namco en masse in 2009 and WotC sued to try to get the rights for D&D video games back over it, which was only resolved in 2011.
This is the main reason.
Pretty much. I guess Neverwinter squeaked through because development started before the lawsuit or something.
>>The only thing wizardry has in common with adnd is vancian magic
proven false. game, set, and match.
>NOOOOOOOOOO 4E HAD to have no games because it was BAD!!!!! Ignore the market and legal systems and every other factor!!!!
Cry more.
so, real talk ooc, what exactly are you diagnosed with?
Explain to the class why you are personally invested in noone talking about 4E.
PoE isn't like 4E. It's convergent evolution at best.
Or maybe I know what I'm talking about and you don't. PoE resembles a hacked 3.5 with official variant rules far more than it does 4E.
You are engaging in 5e player activity. moronic homosexuals has never played DnD without minis nor played a single Dungeon crawl campaign
The default assumption was using minis... until 5E.
Perhaps for wilderness combat in OD&D, especially for big skirmishs, yes, but inside dungeons at close quarters, descriptions of play doesnt imply the use of miniatures, and combat turns into something much more akin to Wizardry row-based combat.
Also, I don't understand why so many homosexuals on here are so willing to lie out their ass. Is it because anonymous posting means they know they will never suffer the shame of being called out on their bullshit? The very first print of D&D in 1974 straight up says minis aren't required.
If anything it's later editions that started to push miniatures (not as a requirement, but being more aggressive in the books about getting players to buy them) because they started to carry and sell miniatures as part of their merch line.
what the frick is your problem, dnd editions are literally adapted as crpg systems
...and that is exactly the topic of this thread; why are there almost no 4e crpg adaptations?
pic related, it's (You)
Everyone at the time acknowledged 4e was shit, it was only later that contrarians decided to pretend it's the most perfect TTRPG ever made.
Didn't happen.
Insights generally come from engaging in discussion rather than dismissing It.
My suggestion, why dont you contribute with your very insightful thoughts about the Topic? Perhaps we might gain something here
The guy has been spamming this thread. He's not interested in discussing anything.
>spergs out and replies to himself repeatedly
We know, you don't have to sign your posts.
Realistically any anon could sit down and bang out a passable adaptation of 4e with a few months in RPG Maker by using the SRPG plugins. It's a pretty complicated system to play in person without a customized VTT, but it's so gamified that converting it to vidya form would be easy and intuitive.
But CRPG studios don't have a reason to invest in a system that only has niche interest nowadays, WotC sure as frick ain't doing shit, and another anon already explained why nothing could've happened during its run.
Hi, OP here, the last reply I've made to the thread was this
.
He doesn't care and he knows that he's lying
I remember there was a d&d game made w/4e rules but was soo bad, they memory holed it (had fricking skill trees).
Sword Coast Legends wasn't 4E
You need interdimensional internet to download it: fully customizable cute characters, cute apparel, cute emotes, cute dancing moves, tons of panty shots, tons of h-scenes featuring gang bangs, double penetrations, wolfs, fairies, elves, cat girls, orcs, ogres, tentacles, etc.
Very nice game.
4e is at its core a game about playing during other player's turns. Depending on your choices, a level 1 character can have 2 or more abilities that trigger in response to either allies or enemies doing basically anything. Regardless of how you feel about the system itself, the reason it was never properly adapted to a videogame is obvious. It would play like a Yugioh or MTG game when you have instants/traps and constantly prompt you to respond whenever anything happens.
>using a system made for pen and paper as the basis for a videogame
???
it's like making an audiobook of a silent comic famous for the visuals.
This is actually a perfectly reasonable question for /vrpg/.
As "good things to be angry about" go, this one should probably be lower on your list, anon.
What the frick does this have to do with video games? Why is moderation so moronic?
OP is the same moron that made the paladin thread and he's seething in that one too.
Or maybe that image of 4E is the first one accessible when you google D&D 4E PHB. Didn't take me long to find it on Drivethru RPG.
I didn't make the thread. Your autism is noone's fault but your own.
Which is more likely:
That I made a thread while I was literally asleep, then made a second thread on /tg/ with a different filename for some reason...
Or that 4E sends you into an autistic meltdown so you spent the entire thread samegayging and crying while pretending it's off-topic?
I'd say its pretty darn likely that he's correct.
>Pretty Darn
Take ye meds.
Wizardry 1 is an early D&D ripoff mechanically. The other anons are right, you have literally never played an edition older than the WoTC era but somehow think yourself an expert. The game was not always about slow ass tactical slogs that take 3 hours to resolve a tabletop combat with 10 participants in it. If you played without minis the rules were streamlined enough where combat could be scaled up near infinitely and still take on the order of 10-20 minutes to resolve. Party sizes of 10 players + a retinue of another 10-15 hirelings and henchmen managing to both get a good amount of exploration of a dungeon, town downtime, and resolving 4-6 encounters all in single session was par for the course
I bet Moeblob is deleting his own posts to further his schizo "the janny is persecuting me and deleting posts that disagree with him and spamming the board with shitty threads" narrative. I've looked at the archive at posts that I've deleted myself versus posts that the janny deleted or that I was banned for and there's no difference, they both just say 'deleted'
If every deleted post is his it makes it pretty clear he's having a severe autistic meltdown.
It looks like weird bits and chunks of conversations are deleted, like someone got really mad, lost it, and just deleted the post they were replying to midargument lmao
I think "someone" legit mindbroke the janny. He is losing it.