Why was this character so controversial on /vp/? I just finished Shield and he's a really cool guy. He's probably the most personable champion yet, the kind of dude who'd actually be popular in real life. Plus he fricks Sonia and probably Nessa too, nuff said.
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He's "likeable", but it's wasted potential. I really wish they went down something like a match fixing route or something to make him more interesting. Also his team isn't strong enough to warrant him having a reputation as the strongest champion. Finally, giving him a Charizard ace is the worst case of pandering I think this franchise has ever had.
fpbp
If they didn't cram him being the best champion ever down our throats the whole time and gave him a proper ace he probably would've been viewed way more fondly.
>really wish they went down something like a match fixing route or something to make him more interesting
How is that more interesting? Is it because it would maintain your headcanon that Cynthia is the best champion?
>Also his team isn't strong enough to warrant him having a reputation as the strongest champion
How?
>Finally, giving him a Charizard ace is the worst case of pandering
How?
>mindbroken by Cynthia
many such cases among leonjeets
FPWP
You can tell if someone's moronic by their opinion of his Charizard. Way to completely miss SwSh's themes, homosexual.
What's SWSH's theme? Galar is completely in Kanto's shadow? I'm serious, maybe it's me being cynical but I really can't see any reason for Leon to have Charizard as an ace other than as an excuse to slap Charizard on a bunch of merch.
>team isn’t strong enough
Outside of Charizard and Mr. Rime, it’s plenty strong. It’s just the game is easy as shit.
I one-shotted everything save for his Goodra and Charizard, so no.
I don't think he was bad and enjoyed he was a human being with thoughts, feelings, and emotions outside of le mysterious master trainer.
He was kind of incompetent, but that made it better. I guess the only thing I didn't like is they made him the world champion rather than just the Galar champion.
>enjoyed he was a human being with thoughts, feelings, and emotions
Can you point me in the direction of these things cause maybe I wasn’t paying attention but he felt like a very plain “Woahoh dude! Yeah man I’m pretty strong dude! Catch ya later bro! Hahaha!”
Speedreader spotted
We dislike brown males and we dislike pajeets even more
also the outfit is the worst ever designed
also charizard
>Plus he fricks Sonia and probably Nessa too
Nah he 100% gay
he destroyed zoomer fanfics that cynthia is the strongest champion. That's literally the only reason.
wdym fanfic
>not by pokemon company
fanfic, yes
the funniest thing about this is that cynthia ultimately lost to blue in this
and then lost to sada in the real tournament this was building up to
Because Blue is the best Champ objectively.
But he is a wienery shit and his team is mid af
His team is good enough to beat Cynthia :^)
His team cant even beat DPPt Cynthia
much less BDSP Cynthia
Cant beat BW 1-2 Cynthia either
>He can’t win because uhhh…. HE JUST CAN’T OKAY?!
>No I don’t have any proof
Smell ya later, Cynthiagays
Play the games, loser, his team are trash
BDSP Cynthia is about 10 tiers stronger
>m-muh tiers
Smoglet detected
Do you realize that Mustard is the strongest npc in the entire franchise and not Cynthia?
Cynthiagays are like a cult, they use simulations as facts to prove she's the strongest NPC, but if you dare contradict their simulations with more simulations, they begin to dilate furiously.
>worse levels than BDSP Cynthia and the Post-DLC Champions of SV
Mehhhhhhh.
the strongest NPC, homosexual whether you like it or not.
>no held items
Mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
and he stills stomps on her team in the vast majority of simulations, now cope and dilate
But are these simulations that can perfectly replicate Pokemon's AI? Simulations that preserve the Pokemon's levels, natures, EVs and IVs as they're coded into the actual game?
If they can't do either of these, they shouldn't count.
Also, in those same simulations you cling to so desperately, Nemona's Post-DLC Skeledirge team mogs BDSP Cynthia without even trying.
>But are these simulations that can perfectly replicate Pokemon's AI?
Yes
>EVs and IVs as they're coded into the actual game?
Yes
Then post one of these simulation videos and show me Mustard, with his Level 80 (at best) Pokemon, mogging the best of the best level-wise between BDSP Cynthia and all of Nemona's Post-DLC teams.
with level difference:
with same levels:
the Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oOs-cKAWvEHTawwgzOB3e6YbM2XyeP0fuTt9ycPw38U/edit?pli=1#gid=0
>doesnt show any battles its just some loser with an avatar and an annoying voice
this isnt fun
show fun videos or frick off
>waah waah, why isn’t it cool
You asked for him to post boring ass team analysis and get mad that it’s boring. Literal toddler mentality
I wasnt the guy asking about it I'm the guy talkig about the tourney videos
like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VDOdrTFU00&list=PLfwgGwX5JQfbIaIaisxz6uDMwGMzB-Lwb&index=5&pp=iAQB this is more valid because it has cynthia and mustard actually fight and isnt some nerd talking about what would happen if they actually fight
Anon, the guy did more than one simulation calculating the probabilities between two trainers, not just a one-time battle simulation.
hell this guyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6E6OaWb7LQ also does the boring analyst thing but he also shows a bunch of fights before leading into a toruney between the top 16 and fight with blue and red because he realized the straight math is just boring
>doesn't actually show any of the battles themselves, just explains rankings and how they allegedly match up to contemporary trainers
>only has spreadsheets for the "all level 50s" compilation
MEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
>Do you realize that Mustard is the strongest NPC in the entire franchise and not Cynthia?
?
I realize that BDSP Cynthia rapestomps any Mustard team with ease...
BDSP Cynthia is not even the strongest version of Cynthia, jesus christ morons!!
She has the highest levels and actually employs held items, and since lore feats were rendered invalid with Leon, raw gameplay based on the core games is the only way to decide who the strongest is.
Levels are basically irrelevant since simulators tend to use fixed levels and players will just grind if they need to
>Levels are basically irrelevant since simulators tend to use fixed levels
Take your meds schizo
And that's the problem. No one can actually get a good clean idea of who the strongest truly is based on true raw gameplay because they insist on "balancing" everyone to level 50, which is how you have Mustardgays being on such a high horse of superiority despite their acclaim coming from scenarios that nerf his greatest opponents. Like no shit if you're gonna have everyone at level 50 that the trainers with Legendaries and Paradoxes will reign supreme, hence Mustard, Hop and Turo/Sada being so win-capable.
But if Mustard were fighting with his proper team of Level 77-80 Pokemon against the level 84-88 standard of Post-Stark Mountain BDSP Cynthia and Post-DLC SV, the story would play out far differently.
>Pokemon with higher levels or higher stats have advantages
Fricking duh? You’re just trading one advantage for another not using level caps
in that specific tourney dont get it twisted overall on his channel they're 2-2
Blue and Cynthia being roughly evenly matched is how it should be. If anything most champions should be roughly on the same level as they are.
Reminder only homosexual losers who got bullied dislike Blue
I'm a homosexual loser who got bullied and I want to have sex with Blue
Cynthias actual in-game BDSP team doesnt lose to anything
yeah and she beat Blue when they both had Megas, AND beat Sada later
what's your point? Milotic clears, the most neutral statement someone can glean from this is that they're both 2-2 against her, and in Sada's case without Megas. Leon and Mustard are both 0-1 and Mustard was even worse in a tournament where they both got buffed against her
?si=MpCp0rZTVsSzATOR
But Cynthias team is the strongest, especially after BDSP
Leons probably wouldnt even make top 3-5
Seems like its a fanfic that leonjeets invented to cope
>But Cynthias team is the strongest
Canonically it isn't.
There is no such canon in pokemon
No, your personal headcanon doesnt count
>There is no such canon in pokemon
Yes there is.
No there isnt
lmao is right, it really is just zoomers assblasted that they can’t claim cynthia is the strongest anymore
>ahnime
not canon though
BDSP made Cynthia the strongest NPC trainer (not just champion) in history.
Forget everything else, this is the reason. No one necessarily hates Leon, he just brought dbzHispanic powerlevel homosexualry into the franchise.
You act like that wasn't already there people have been arguing over Cynthia and red for decades
They didn't. The "unbeatable champion" moniker brought these autists in.
If anything, consensus Pre-Leon was "Red would win because he's literally a protagonist even if he's not being controlled by a player, but Cynthia is the most impressive overall because she's only ever been an NPC".
Leon came in and completely shat on all prior preconceived notions solely because of marketing and that's why you have people arguing that now it all boils down to levels and sets rather than any actual lore feats. Which is funny because that means Nemona's final Skeledirge Team, a character who everyone regularly dismisses when talking about Champions, would mog BDSP Rematch Cynthia without even trying.
And yet Volo is still stronger then all of them.
We don't have any official metrics for how Volo's team of Level 68s (severely weak compared to the level 84+ heights reached by BDSP Cynthia and Post-DLC SV Trainers) would function in traditional battle terms (now being divorced from battle styles, altered moves/statuses and grit boosts), nor do we have any official metrics for how any Non-LA trainers would function in LA battle terms. For all intents and purposes, Volo shouldn't count in the discussion because we don't yet know how his team would officially work outside of LA.
You can say this about literally every NPC in Pokemon, though. Cynthia only stands out because she uses a diverse team that isn't strictly adhering to a single type or theme, something that hasn't been seen since Blue's five minute reign as Indigo League Champion.
> You can say this about literally every NPC in Pokemon
except leon, who is canonically established to be impressive
>except [HEADCANON]
*only in galar
And the Galar MC is even more canonically impressive, so impressive that they were somehow immune to the alleged rigged matches that everyone else allegedly has to deal with in their Galar League career and instead got a genuinely clean fight with Leon that dethroned his "unbeatable" acclaim.
before bdsp nothing about cynthia was impressive except
>I was a moronic 6 year old when I played DPPt and I found her hard
>rather than any actual lore feats
because there are no "actual lore feats"
0
>Nemona's final Skeledirge Team, a character who everyone regularly dismisses when talking about Champions, would mog BDSP Rematch Cynthia without even trying.
lmao, all of Nemonas DLC teams are a meme compared to BDSP Cynthia and even to Kieran
she doesnt even have items
Literally not a fricking single person thought Red was the strongest because he lost to fricking Gold and then to SM/USUMs MCs.
He's by leaps and bounds the most featless MC of them all. Ironically enough, for the same reason why he keeps getting pushed so much.
In fact, even now, despite how hard some mediums try to pretend otherwise, like Masters, people easily dismiss it all because everyone and their mom knows he gets pushed like that for meta reasons.
But in comes Leon who we all know is getting pushed as LE STRONGEST OMG LE CHARIZARD TOTALLY LEGIT GUYS and homies now wanna pretend we've gotta take it completely seriously. It's all a fricking joke.
>No one necessarily hates Leon
holy cope
I don't like pajeets.
This will be yet another based /vp/ thread where we praise Cynthia and shit on leon and all pajeets in general.
Leons team isnt even the best in Galar, much less other regions
Did pajeets even play SWSH?
/vp/ schizos hate him cause he's brown.
There's also powerlevel autists who fight with other kids on the playground over who's the strongest and he was very successful in an anime tournament or something which made them shit their diapers.
Both of these groups are moronic and should just be ignored, of course.
>he was very successful in an anime tournament
Was he though?
He lost his first ever fight against an actual unrestricted opponent .. despite using Dynamax twice
his ace couldnt even score a single KO in that fight
Pretty embarassing
I don't remember the details cause I never watched it and don't care about childish powerlevel discussions. I just know there was some reason why autistic children felt threatened by Leon. Don't care why, it's moronic anyway.
>never watched
So you know nothing and you're just talking out of your ass?
>Don't care why
Its perfectly natural to dislike and to be wary of pajeet males. In fact you would be a fool to do otherwise
I'm talking about powerlevel autists, not /misc/aks who feel threatened by fictional brown men. Learn how to read.
Yet you said "I never watched it and don't care about childish powerlevel discussions"
You seem autistic
That fight was so dogshit, it was just who was the bigger Gary Stu between Leon and Assh
Anime leon was very bad at using dynamaxes
Ash was much better than him at having and using gimmicks at least
>Anime leon was very bad at using dynamaxes
>
>Ash was much better than him at having and using gimmicks at least
this, ashnime leon was shit at gimmicks
Deserved loss honestly
The whole tournament was ass
He beat Alain while only losing 1 Pokemon and then won against Diantha losing only 2 Pokemon while everyone else's matches came down to the last. Then he got to the finals and lost after Ash used Gigantamax, Mega Evolution, Dracovish awakening some hidden ability, Z-move, and Gigantamax again vs Leon using Gigantamax back to back. Shitty writing aside that’s still a successful tournament.
Honestly they did a way better job in the anime by far then they did in the games of selling that he's the cream of the crop champion from the sound of it.
People had an issue with Alain because the battle was so short and he didn’t even use his G-max on Charizard to beat Mega Zard X. I didn’t mind since I don’t care for Alain, but Diantha got done dirty by off screening the entire match besides the very end.
He was such a fricking awful character in the anime nip Leongays made a #NotmyLeon hashtag to shit on him and make it clear that it was the game version they liked, not the unlikable homosexual from the anime.
That's funny, they did a better job of making him seem like a good trainer but fricked up his characterization? There's just no fricking winning here lmfao
Did it "sell" that Leon was strong better because they showed rather than just tell? Sure, maybe. But the execution was so awful and to the detriment of everyone else it just made people want to dismiss it even more than before because at the end of the day it didn't felt like Leon was "strong" and more like he was plot armored like crazy because he was set to be Ash's opponent before the Journeys retool and that everyone else was weak rather than him being strong.
It was simply not believable because of how over the top they went with it. And that's without counting the meta aspects like "Look, he stomped Alan! Now you can't be mad about the Kalos Disaster anymore because Ash will beat Leon who beat Alan!" which completely misses the point so hard it's crazy or how they were going out of their way to hide his team for the sake of "hype" and then it was just the fricking Galar starters and poor Diantha suffered the price to the point even the people who shat and mocked Diantha for over a decade were upset because of how bad she got treated.
Leongays hated it because he was an unbeatable gary stu and they barely explored other things about him like his relationship with Hop, Sonia or Raihan or how he's got no life outside being a Champion and that bothers him somewhat and anti-Leongays just got more fuel to hate him because they double downed on the invincible, unbeatable, undefeated Champion with Charizard from K-K-KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
They completely fricked up Leon in the anime in nearly every way shape and form.
>Shitty writing aside that’s still a successful tournament.
Sure sure, if we ignore the shit it always looks successful. Never mind the justified reception of even the slopeating nips calling that entire event a shitfest, nevermind that the "successful" tournament has asininely bad breaks, never mind it was such a trainwreck it was stuffed with four recaps. FOUR. RECAP. Never mind that the frustration got so bad that the staff got actively harassed online after the fourth recap got announced, never mind that not even a Cynthia background story wasn't able to protect the first episode of the semi-finals from getting shat on.
Your shitty copes aside, that's a successful post right?
> Diantha
So he won against the weakest champ and then got roflstomped when he fought against a competent foe?
>hyped for being the perfect pikachu counter with mud shot and protean
>oneshoted by an electric attack
KWAB
I don't give a shit about power level autism, but being told constantly he's the strongest champion ever without being given a reason to believe so is endlessly frustrating.
It'd be one thing if it was just his brother and the fanboys but man having everyone be like that drove me nuts.
People kept saying it cause it made people like you mad, idiot.
I meant in game not on the forum dumbass.
Lol, you got mad because they said in the GAME? Are you moronic? Obviously they would to hype him up. What a weird thing to get hung up on.
Didn't get mad, just man it just got tedious after a while. It was hype and no substance, and like I said I would be able to live with it more if it wasn't just non stop the whole region.
Like I get what they were going for, but I just didn't vibe with it. Especially with the fricking rose shenanigans dragging him down indirectly too.
I think SwSh's unfinished writing is to blame here. The ending was very obviously extremely rushed, I feel like they didn't even implement half of the story they meant to include.
So not really Leon's fault, just SwSh as a whole. What a fricking mess.
Exactly, I can't blame the character himself but man everything around him really lowers him. I could easily see him being a genuine fan favorite if the game as a whole was better.
>being told constantly he's the strongest champion ever
But only in galar*
Which is fine, thats probably true for all champions and their regions
Its just extra annoying and obnoxious in SWSH
>Its just extra annoying and obnoxious in SWSH
Because he's the champion and acts like one instead of being some literal part timer like in the other gens besides 1 and 2?
This is really only true about Steven and Cynthia. Wallace is a lot like Leon after becoming champ.
OK but like Leon's anime team I'd stupidly stronger then his game team so like why couldn't he have that it would be kino
Is there a counter for how many times npcs have said Leon was the STRONGEST CHAMPION EVAHHH?
He's my favorite champion. I just don't waste my time talking to overly vocal people that have an obvious agenda since conversation would never go anywhere with them.
>AAAAIIIIIIeEEEEEEE SAVE ME ROSE!!
He's only the """strongest""" in Galar, a canonically weak region and needs Rose to rig matches for him.
>needs Rose to rig matches for him.
That's headcanon
Play the game.
I did. Post proof that Rose rigged games
You didn't play the game.
>can't post proof because it's bullshit so resorts to spamming the same thing on loop
>so dumb he got filtered by swsh.
oof.
Literally just go to Bulbapedia and copypaste a quote from a character saying that Rose rigged the games. If you can't, it's headcanon.
>bulbapedo.
Feel free to use any other website or a Youtube video that shows the dialogue. You do have proof, right?
>b-but Mustard's League Card says...
Why would the league openly admit to rigging matches? Wouldn't that be horrible for PR and cause sponsors to pull out because they don't want to be associated with an organization that's openly corrupt? Why would anyone even WANT to get into the League if their career is dictated solely by how many dollar signs Rose sees in them?
No, you stupid dumb frick. Mustard's League Card is a made-up story to make him seem cooler and more marketable despite being retried from the Galar League. Mustard himself doesn't even mention anything about these rigged matches or him being disappointed with how Chairman Rose operated the whole thing.
>Rose to rig matches for him
gay pajeet lovers
The first DEI Champion.
Leon Fraudinel Brownel Pissi Shitty Cheati Hormoniel Pechi Fressi Pajeeti Riggi Pussi Cucki Tapintini Dynamaxtini Langletgettini Coldchestini Missmovetini Galartini Slowalktini Headdowntini Riggitini Cheatini PenaltyForGalartini CHARIZARDtini Hormonetini HGHtini Roidtini Ghost of Wyndon Lefootieladtini Autismtini Spritini moronbrothertini Fullrestoretini Pessi Raihanman Rosetini Cuckitini
So true
>LE EBIN CHARIZARD HECKERINO GUY IS A REALLY COOL GUY
Frick you
Leon was sold as “The Undefeated Champion” in SwSh and the anime, which threatened Cynthia’s base. BDSP added fuel to the fire by upgrading her team in the games canon. This led to fanwars and crude images of Cynthia being spammed on vp…
Leon is great he's a great champion. I love him he actually feels like a champion.
The problem with the games has always been the league not being a spectacle. It's always been treated like a um club or something.
You'd think since pokemon battles are sports events the presentation in the games would be better but nah only the anime and SWSH does anything with it.
The problem is he handles all the big shit Galar's story is ass it's so ass like it's so fricking shit.
People also hate him because mommy Cynthia and how bad Cynthia elitist is in general.
>Jobs to Sonia
>Second champion to have a charizard
>that charizard is also his ace
You're fricked buddy, you have earned the death sentence.
third if you picked venusar in red and blue
Cynthia is better
Cynthia didn't actually try and save her region until a 3rd game where her team was worse try again
Leon Derangement Syndrome.
Borts jealous over Galargod superiority.
https://discord.gg/uPCrZrS6
>Why was this character so controversial on /vp/
He wasn't white and owned a charizard
Because constantly being told how good he is by everything tends to rub people the wrong way.
He's not even good either which is hilarious
pajeets are NOT human
He barely sells being the champion, let alone being some super strong undefeated guy. Like, we've arguably had more nothing champions, Diantha is about as pathetic but so not in your face you kind of forget about her, and story Geeta is a fricking joke in every way, but the fact I have to bring them up says a lot. Dude is arguably worse than Alder, a guy whose entire point in the game is to impart vague wisdom and lose like a b***h.
1. He's brown
2. He is said to be the strongest when it was already established that a beautiful white blonde lady was the strongest
why SHOULDN'T I hate him, OP? seriously, give me on good reason
>He is said to be the strongest
Liar liar
at the end of the day his tights smelled quite rank and he just didn't care
People here really are extremely autistic. Imagine reading "the strongest champion (of Galar)" and taking it so literally that you think it means "the strongest of all champions".
Utterly autistic behaviour. Hope you never breed.
Leon is #1 of all champions in the anime and the game goes out of its way to imply Raihan, the second strongest in Galar, could easily be champion level if he moved to another region. It’s clear Leon is the strongest of every champion.
> He barely sells being the champion
In what way? If anything he sells being the champion the best since he’s a celebrity in the game unlike moronic shit like Steven and Cynthia where fricking no one in the game even knows who they are.
Cant expect common sense from galartards
>Leon is #1 of all champions in the anime
No he isnt. Ash is. And leon has only fought mid-level champions like Lance and Diantha. He has never fought Cynthia or Steven, much less a double gimmick Cynthia.
Anime Leon was also helped a lot by all the major tournament battles being in Galar (so he can always dynamax) and arbitrarily restricting gimmicks to 1 (as soon as he fought someone who wasnt restricted by that - he lost). He is way weaker when he isnt in Galar
Also anime = not canon anyway
>the game goes out of its way to imply
Just a rumor. Rumors are irrelevant unless they are proven
Given that Raihan is explictly shown and stated to only be on the general level of ~Melony/Piers (gym leaders) - that rumor is double debunked
>It’s clear Leon is the strongest of every champion.
Its clear you are clueless and deranged like all leongays are
Who is the strongest champion if not Leon?
The player, duh
Among NPC champions - its never stated.
But Cynthia has the best in-game team and Red has the most dick-sucking (but he is still never stated to be the strongest in the world or anything like that)
Leon is just the Galar guy, its not even known if he has ever fought anyone outside Galar .. or even been outside Galar
>Among NPC champions - its never stated
But there's the most evidence that it's Leon. Therefore it's most reasonable to assume Leon is the strongest.
>But there's the most evidence that it's Leon
There is 0 such "evidence"
No
And most reasonable is probably for Red or Cynthia or both
Levels aren’t canon between different games. This is meaningless.
more meaningfull than leonwank THOUGH
leonjeets status = destroyed
>pokemon fans when the game has worldbuilding that actually makes sense instead of the champion being a literal who that's never acknowledged by anyone in the game and isn't revealed to be the champion until the very last second for no fricking reason except to have a contrived ebin twist to copy gen 1
>when the game has worldbuilding that actually makes sense
Which game ? Surely not SWSH, kek
it is pretty funny how people b***h about kanto pandering, but when the game deviates from kanto in a way that's actually meaningful (having the champion established early, not having an elite 4, not having the pokemon league be in an isolated building after victory road, etc) those same morons start b***hing and screaming.
dark skin
Most of the world does hate Black folk.
Not me
No reason to if I never met them in my life
Just accept that GameFreak has been ruining this franchise since X/Y
You can rationalize Leon however you want he is not going away. The Ashinme's conclusion isn't going away and Leon's future shilling won't go away
Leon has been dead and irrelevant from the exact second that his charizard went down to that rat
Even Masters stopped shilling him. They had him lose to Bede and Marnie lmao
Still, damage is forever done.
Cynthia wasn't Ash's final opponent and they made the "STRONGEST CHAMPION" be some little b***h nobody cares about outside of his game. That's why he will always be relevant, that's why people are still arguing about him, because he is a stain that will never go away
Ash hasnt even fought full power Cynthia or her undefeated Mega Chomp in the anime.
She is like the post game boss, above the regular final boss
You are right though, the damage SWSHit did to the franchise is irreparable
lol full power Cynthia. You gays still coping about this?
Mega Chomp = undefeated
Gmax Zard = rekt
>Mega Chomp = undefeated
>Gmax Zard = rekt
leonsissies its galarover....
homie if we're using that mega garchomp is worse then regular garchomp.
>thinks game rules apply in ashnime
moron
remember when anti-leontards were coping by saying “h-he’s only shilled as the strongest just because he’s from the current gen” only for gen 9 to come out and reveal geeta isn’t even the strongest of her own region?
Both Leon and Geeta are trash and nowhere near the strongest
nemona is easily > them both.
Nemona is stronger than Geeta.
I highly doubt anyone could beat a Leon who uses dynamax to it's full advantage unless they have dynamax as well.
Leons DLC rematch team is trash (and it has 5 pokenon), he gets raped by the DLC teams of both Nemona and geeta.
>I highly doub
headcanon discarded
Levels don't matter its about talent and experience.
Leon and Nemona are gifted but gimmicks also factor into this
Dynamax is just stupidly more strong then Tera orbs
No, its about the teams (including also levels and other stats)
Leon gets raped by these 2 brown paldean women after their DLC upgrades
Gmaxed Zard can still easily get one-shot
Also it doesnt even work outside Galar
>I highly doubt anyone could beat a Leo-ACK
Did you use dynamax oh wait you didn't because smogon doesn't allow dynamax and Tera orbs together your lying to yourselves.
Lore actively supports Leon being stronger than most other champions that aren't named Red, Ash, or Cynthia
Just Red and Ash, really.
Ash is Red's anime counterpart
Really he's still considered Reds anime counter part I thought they stopped doing that in journey's.
OK let's look at all of them.
The list goes like this
Red
Ash=Cynthia =Leon
Red manga
Blue = Nemona
Steven stone
Lance
Wallace
Geeta = Diantha
Yellow(manga) if we really are being level junkies she has champion level pokemon
Trace
Professor kukui
Hau
All the shitty Neo champions in masters
swap Ash and Red and put Leon lower
homies Leon had to make Ash use all three of his fricking gimmicks
There's no way I'm putting Ash above a composite Red who has access to all the gimmicks Ash has.
Leon deserves his ranking for being able to hold his own against someone with 3 fricking gimmicks.
Ashnime is not canon and leon is dependant on being in Galar, while the other 3 arent
isn't canon and yellow is dependant on having super powers
You homies ok here's the list of all the champion level trainers
0. YOU you can beat all of these people.
1.Composite Red
2. Cynthia>=Ash
3.Leon
4.Manga Red
5.Nemona >= Blue
7. Kieran = Steven Stone >= Iris
8.Mustard
9. Geeta >= Diantha
10. Peony
11. Trace >= Lance
12. Professor kukui
13. All Neo champions
14. Any other spin off title champion
Frick I forgot N and Alder
Leon is nowhere near Red buddy. Leon can't defeat mustard or anyone who isn't fixed by Rose.
Leon lost all the non-corrupt matches (jobbed to Mustard, jobbed to eternatus, jobbed to MC).
Lies and Slander Leon was the only other champion that actually fought his regions natural disaster other than technically Red.
That alone bumps him up.
Nah Leon is a fake celeb "champ". He's charismatic but he gets completely destroyed in a serious competition
Then how did he keep his title for 10+ years?
Rose fixes the matches. Why do you think only the Galar league requires a league member to sponsor you to challenge them?
The first non-Rose sponsored contestant (The MC who was sponsored by braindead Leon) absolutely and thoroughly BTFOd the "champ".
So why didn't Rose rig the MC's matches when the MC started rapidly escalating through the Galar League at a rate comparable to Leon's own campaign (if not even faster)? Why doesn't anyone ever bring up this "rigged matches" plot point, but instead it only comes up in DLC from an OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED AND RELEASED CARD FROM THE LEAGUE ITSELF, IMPLICATING THAT THE LEAGUE IS LITERALLY ADMITTING TO THE PUBLIC AND SPONSORS THAT IT'S CORRUPT AND RIGGED?
The list actually goes
0 you
And then Volo because he's the strongest trainer ever
>leon on par with ash and cynthia
>Lore actively supports Leon being stronger
only in your head
anime = Ash
games = Player, then Red/Cynthia
Cynthia? Where exactly?
She is strong in her game for sure, but if we go by levels Steven in Emerald is on par with Red
>Cynthia? Where exactly?
i stand corrected
>Lore actively supports Leon being stronger than most other champions that aren't named Red, Ash, or Cynthia
It doesn't though, lore tells us that he's a weak and fake champ that couldn't protect his region and is weaker than the has been mustard.
Because he's a fake champ. Rose fixes the matches hence why only Galar needs an sponsorship to challenge the league.
y'all know Leon has no fans, right?
most leon wankers are just anti-Cynthia schizo shitposters
Mustards team is indeed better than Leons
Game goes out of its way to constantly tell you how bad with directions Leon is so they can have some sort of flaw for their Mary Sue.
>never comes up because Leon will always be where he needs to because it's a video game, how can he dump exposition if he's truly lost.
My beff with him is that his ace should've been Dagapult, not fricking sharizard and its shilling of KANTOOOOOOOO
He has a Dragapult in Masters EX so there's that.
Cynthia is both the hottest AND the strongest!
and the most popular
Because he was marketed as "LE STRONGEST CHAMPION OF ALL TIME!!!!!" as a deliberate move to create fandom discourse and get people talking about him in the most inorganic fashion possible.
People sure did talk about him, but very few actually liked him because they were already soured by this marketing tactic, and both SWSH and Journeys didn't do too much to display Leon as a standout character beyond "he's KIND of like a protagonist but he's also just a generally cool standup guy indistinguishable from the rest".
Reminder for the Leonsissies.
>fanfic gacha game
More canon than ashnime
the ashnime is mostly consistent with the games
lmao
no its not
and its NOT CANON
yeah it is
Alain
Ash Greninja
Ash Hat Pikachu
Pikachunium Z
Liko's Sprigatito
Volo is the strongest trainer.
Stronger then
Red
Cynthia
Leon
Ash
Etc
He puts all these frauds back in their place
>[Cynthia before his HRT] is the strongest trainer
What did he mean by this
Galar is a shithole with no E4
their second strongest guy (Raihan) is gym leader level
whats impressive in Galar isnt impressive in Sinnoh or Kanto
The game says raihan is champion level. Which is also backed up by the anime which places Raihan in top 8 along with the 6 other champions.
>The game says raihan is champion level.
meds
>backed up by the anime
non-canon anime cannot back anything up
Also anime Raihan hasnt beaten a single champion (or anyone on screen) and wasnt even in the final 8
So yeah..
The gym leaders are equivalent to the E4 in Galar with Raihan and possibly Piers being champion tier.
>with Raihan and possibly Piers being [headcanon]
Anime Raihan was ~Flint level (stronger with dynamax), so - E4/E4+ level
But game =/= anime. Game Raihan is only upper gym leader tier, so weaker than anime.
Game leon is also very likely weaker than anime leon.
The Galar gym leaders are equivalent to the E4 in the other regions.
proofs?
The fact that the game has no E4 and uses the gym leaders with unhandicapped teams instead.
The fact that people in-universe think Raihan would be a champion if he moved to another region.
>unhandicapped teams
what does that mean?
>The fact that people in-universe think Raihan would be a champion if he moved to another region.
They dont, its just a random rumor on his league card - literally made to sell his merch. It might even be entirely made-up fake hype by whoever wrote that card
Reality - he cannot beat Melony and barely beats a Dmax-less Piers. Ergo, he is gym leader level
You've been debunked a million times already.
> You can say this about literally every NPC in Pokemon
The gym leaders use weaker teams on purpose earlier in the game to test trainers and their order is based on their actual ranking in the champion league when not holding back. The game explains this.
> They dont, its just a random rumor
It wouldn’t be a rumor if people didn’t think it was true.
> Reality - he cannot beat Melony and barely beats a Dmax-less Piers
Except Melony and Piers are also at least E4 tier.
>The gym leaders use weaker teams on purpose earlier in the game to test trainers and their order is based on their actual ranking in the champion league when not holding back. The game explains this
and how does that make them E4 level ..?
>It wouldn’t be a rumor if people didn’t think it was true.
moronic logic
We never see a single actual person who thinks that. Just a random rumor line on a league card
>Except Melony and Piers are also at least E4 tier.
You've yet to prove that.
And that makes Raihan E4 level, not champion level as you claimed
> and how does that make them E4 level ..?
Because their role is equivalent to the E4 in other regions.
>moronic logic
Rumors don’t start unless people believe it could be true.
> You've yet to prove that.
I have, you’re just in denial.
> And that makes Raihan E4 level, not champion level
Strong E4 members are basically champion tier. See Lance from the first two gens.
Volo was only "strongest" (NPC) with Giratina, but it wasnt officially his pokemon
they just allied and then it ran away
Fricks your mom
/vp/ is full of Gen 3 and 4 zoomers that hate everything that came afterwards.
And we are right
based and oldgenpilled
...inside the trash.
>/vp/ is full of Gen 3 and 4 zoomers that hate everything that came afterwards.
literally me, holy shit. first game was leafgreen, last game was soulsilver, and i shit on everything after gen 4
I really wish you 3Dgays had self awareness and could see how feminine and b***hy you look to the rest of us. Chimping out all day over gens 3-5 and trying to start genwars between them, when will you guys grow up?
Galargays are REALLY moronic
Sinnohgays are REALLY moronic
gottem
>Sinnohgays are REALLY moronic
>Plus he fricks Sonia and probably Nessa too, nuff said.
Leon is probably intended to be a homo.
Blue is one of the weakest champions we ever had
>shitty Kanto team but it doesnt even have very high levels like Red
in Masters he even lost to Leon
>still causes maximum seethe
The best champ lives rent free.
Extremely forced + team that sucks balls
forced how
Regarding being the strongest trainer
Kys chink, time to go back to the philippines
AAIIIIEEEEE! SHIRONA-SAMA PLEASE! TURN ME BACK INTO A HUMAN! I DONT WANT TO BE A BALL! YAMERO ONEGAISHIMASU!!!
Powerlevel children are so funny
>Mustardgay somehow thinks that his team is even remotely comparable to the rematch teams in BDSP and Indigo Disk
? explain this madness
this
BDSP >= Indigo Disk >>> Mustard > Leon
>Calling a beloved and passionate japanese developer a chink
Dude, are you racist?
>thread full of moronic galartards AND shawn
just nuke it lol
Get banned idiot, I'm gonna report tightenheart discord once more, just to piss you off
Pic related solos
>only level 50s
In a scenario where everyone is forcibly neutered to level 50, yeah, he'd sweep literally everyone. But if levels are preserved, he gets mogged by a vast margin of modern Pokemon's post-story NPC teams.
>you have to equalize levels because .. YOU JUST HAVE TO, OK?
? meds + kys
The BDSP and ID teams would still win even with equal levels because they have perfect IVs, EVs and 6 items
funnily enough cynthia is built in such a specific way her ace beats the shit out of the box legends
ghetsis is the same way and I wish more trainers were like that ust to surprise the little timmys who are coasting through the games without thinking
also have a nice day for mass replying
>Borderline monotype
I like his Dialga/Groudon set more.
Cherrim with flower gift being setting up Solar Beam for Latios and Mewtwo caught me off guard when I first played Battle Revolution.
>cynthiatards think RBY Lance and Bruno are somehow STRONGER than their GSC versions that have three years more experience because muh levels
Unironically I do believe Dragonair not having flying type helps Lance.
>Kantotrash from gens 1-2
who tf cares
all have been replaced by the newer FRLG and HGSS
Just like Cynthias DPPt teams were replaced by BDSP
>D-DOESN’T COUNT!!!
> It's almost like there's a reason people default to a trainer's most powerful post-story appearance
Bruno and Lance have the same levels after the story. If you’re talking about the nu-gen remakes your logic STILL makes no sense because it suggests Lance and Bruno start strong, magically got weaker over 3 years, then got strong again over the course of an afternoon. Using levels to judge canonical power levels between different games is utterly moronic.
cope, schizo
And relying on lore is moronic too, because all it takes is the franchise to open its mouth ONCE and completely change everyone's perception forever, which is exactly how we got into this mess thanks to their excessive marketing of Leon as "THE GOAT CHAMPION UNDEFEATED PROTAGONIST-TIER NEVER LOST A SINGLE BATTLE IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER HIS CHARIZARD'S NEVER BEEN KO'D ONCE EITHER".
>And relying on lore is moronic too,
Why? Because it inconveniently destroys your fanfic that Cynthia is special?
there is no lore, moron
You being in denial about the lore because it ruins your fanfic doesn’t mean there isn’t lore
? They were never changed and recontextualized. No champion was established as particularly strong before and after Leon.
>Rose [FANFIC]
there is no lore, moron
Not a single piece of canon lore exists that states that Cynthia/Red/Lance/Leon or anyone else is "the strongest champion"
it doesnt exist - unless you want to go by Masters lore where Red and Cynthia (and maybe Ash too) are above everyone else
>No champion was established as particularly strong before and after Leon.
Leon hasnt been established as anything except galars champion. Get your head out of your ass
No champion prior to Leon was established as "never defeated once in his entire career" nor was their ace established as a powerhouse that's "never been KO'd before ever" hence its titular namesake of "Unbeatable Charizard".
All of that its only relevant to Galar and whoever leon fought in Galar
Not for anything else
Mhm. Is that why the anime made him the world's strongest trainer while maintaining that acclaim of "undefeated champion and his unbeatable Charizard"? I'm sure GameFreak was SEETHING that OLM took such drastic liberties with their character's lore that's meant to be localized exclusively to Galar, and that's why they didn't stop OLM from deciding "Leon is the world's strongest" in the anime, which in turn further alters everyone's perception of Leon because the anime is the most recognizable piece of Pokemon media that features most characters from the games.
>anime
not canon
try again
>made him the world's strongest trainer
it didnt
Ash was clearly the strongest. leon couldnt even beat Pikachu in a 2v1 fight (same Pikachu that Cynthia beat btw)
pikachu didnt beat cynthia actually she koed it halfway through the match
>actually she koed it halfway through the match
Thats literally what I said.
your mom
>Ash was clearly the strongest.
Just like how the Galar MC is clearly the strongest. Ash was always destined to beat him because the anime literally could not shut the frick up about how Leon was "never defeated once ever" and his Charizard is "unbeatable". Hey, that's just like the games!
glad you agree that Ash is the strongest then
anime Leon is on the same level as the 2 other champions that only lost to Ash - Cynthia and Steven
And he's only the strongest because the narrative deemed so: Just like how the world bent over to make Leon the "insurmountable hurdle" for Ash and Galar's MC alike prior to his defeat.
So this, ultimately, only serves to move us from championwank to protagonistwank, and I'll spare you all the mindgames and nuances: The answer of current strongest protagonist is either "Ash with Journeys-tier Plot Armor and the entire iteration of the anime has been hyping up his opponent" or "The Legends Arceus protagonist". THAT'S your true strongest trainer in the Pokemon franchise.
You being in denial about the lore because it ruins your fanfic doesn’t mean there isn’t lore
> Not a single piece of canon lore exists that states that Cynthia/Red/Lance/Leon or anyone else is "the strongest champion"
Raihan’s league card and the anime both suggest Leon is stronger than every other champion. So objectively if one had to pick one champion that stands out as the strongest Leon would be the most reasonable answer.
You're moronic + in denial. Your raihan wank has been destroyed many times
>anime
lmao
>Raihan's league card
League cards, huh? Like the same ones that proudly claim the league is a cesspool of corruption and fixed matches, yet no one seems to care or point this out, including the man who allegedly "retired from the Galar League because of said corruption"?
It's almost like the league cards carry fictional stories or information made to generate hype and marketable appeal for the people featured on the card, and they chose to capitalize on Raihan's heavily-marketed rivalry with Leon in a way that boosts BOTH of their respective fames: Raihan gets glory by having a write-up that claims he could go Champion in another region if he wasn't fixated on beating Leon, but it ALSO boosts Leon further by implying he's above all the other champions in all the other regions.
No, because it subsequently makes everyone except For Ethan/Lyra, Brendan/May, Dawn/Lucas, Hilbert/Hilda, Nate/Rosa, Calem/Serena, Elio/Selene, Chase/Elaine, Victor/Gloria, The Legends Arceus Protagonists and Florian/Juliana completely irrelevant because their powerlevels and statuses can be changed and recontextualized in a literal instant if GameFreak or The Pokemon Company decide someone else gets to be the favorite for awhile, which is exactly how Leon debuted.
It's almost like there's a reason people default to a trainer's most powerful post-story appearance rather than playing dumbass logistics with the narrative, especially when you remember that Red somehow softened up enough that his team outright regresses in SM/USUM compared to HGSS.
But "EQUALIZE EVERYONE TO LEVEL 50!" doesn't make sense either because that essentially says "even the weakest is technically on par with #1, the only thing setting them apart is team composition" which is fricking stupid.
honestly I just hate his design
>Britain huh?... football and monachy... what if...?
it just looks moronic
There is no lore, but at least, as champions, Cynthia and Red havent lost to anything or anyone except the human Player
-Leon lost to eternatus
-Lance to Blue
-Alder lost to N and Iris
-Geeta lost to Nemona
Cynthia and Red are clearly meant to be the strongest. Leonschizo is huffing his own farts.
chadsterial’s twirling his big kalosian mustache while the street shitters and troons duke it out
Pokemon?
>uh I'm bad with directions lmao
>hey I am the brother of your "rival" and we will pretend that matters
>I am undefeated and everyone kisses my ass
>Hey I know you love my Charizard so much. I bet you really love my unbeatable Charizard. Well, because you beat my easy fight in an unbearably easy game with ease, I'll give you your own soon-to-be unbeatable Charmander, hehe
Blue, Cynthia, all the Unova champions/champion stand-ins (yes N, Ghetsis, Iris and even Alder), Kukui, Volo, and Nemona are way better champs/bosses and characters than Leon. Even the more mediocre ones like Steven and Lance actually do interesting things that we can like or not on our own terms instead of being bombarded with NPCs saying "WOAH IT'S HIM IT'S moronic CHAMPION LEON! DID YOU KNOW HE HAS A CHARIZARD? HE'S SO COOL!"
The only Leon moment I enjoyed was him loosing to Eternatus, with the other characters saying "Oh no how could the UNSTOPPABLE Leon lose despite having the BEST CHARIZARD?" That was at least so shitty it was funny.
>but Leon is canonically the strongest
No, Ash is, and who cares. Take your powerlevel wanking to /dbs/
>Blue, Cynthia, all the Unova champions/champion stand-ins (yes N, Ghetsis, Iris and even Alder), Kukui, Volo, and Nemona are way better champs/bosses and characters than Leon
in what way
>Blue
Rather than being told he's strong by others over and over, he proves he's better than you by getting the champ title first. Your fight with him is about putting your dickhead rival in his place, and you've been developing that rivalry from the get-go. There's a lot more to subtly prove than just beating a guy you've never actually seen do much of anything besides get lost in a town with four buildings
>Cynthia
Actively helps with the plot but isn't overbearing or used too much. Has an actually strong team and that mattered at least in Gen 4 the games were not as piss easy.
>N
N I'd say is the most similar to Leon. Both appear way too much and are, in their own ways, taken way too seriously in-character, but at least with N he has a unique role in the villain team and there are characters that call him out on his bullshit. Team Plasma puts N on a pedestal, but everyone else thinks he and his organization are evil or freakish. N also gets shut down by his adoptive dad in the end of BW, and, when he interacts with you, his motives and abilities are kind of interesting. At the very least, his JPRG-tier story has ups and downs. Leon's flaws are not nearly as interesting, and mostly are played for laughs, and he's not nearly as cool as Cynthia or most of the other champs I listed to pull off having irrelevant flaws.
>Dennis
The guy is genuinely evil. In a series with a ton of maniacs that are made less scary by their good intentions or obsession with ideologies, Ghetsis has no good intentions whatsoever. He has no restraints and is willing to deceive orphans, found a front social movement and abuse pokemon to get the power he wants. It's a breath of fresh air. Leon is claimed to be strong by others. Ghetsis has his strength demonstrated by being the final fight after you beat the guy who beat the champion while it takes every gym leader to handle the rest of Team Plasma. The stakes are naturally high with him.
cont.
>Iris
Iris isn't much better than Leon, but at least we sort of get to see her journey from trainer to gym leader to champion between both BW and BW2. Her title not being revealed until the end of the sequel also helps. Her progression feels natural and she appears enough in BW2 to keep her in mind but she never overstays her welcome.
>Alder
Dude has a decent tragic backstory and him being washed-up and exploring the region instead is much more interesting than whatever they're trying to accomplish with Leon. Being primarily a bug type user also gives him individuality, even if his team isn't that strong.
>Kukui
Leon WISHES he was cool as Kukui. Making the professor the champion and giving him the third starter (something Leon stole from him) was a fantastic choice. Kukui is also actually funny and engaging in way Leon could never replicate.
>Volo
Solid "twist" villain. Unlike Leon's Charizard nostalgiabait, Volo's rip off team actually is strong and is in a game that isn't painfully easy. The double Giratina fight also makes him a threat in the battle and in the story. You get to spend time with Volo when he's just a normal salesman. There's no dicksucking crowd with him. Just you and a cool-looking guy bonding over the whole game all the while he's using you to achieve his goals. His jealousy is also a neat part of his character. Leon's character is as deep as a puddle and he's not cool enough to make a simple winner concept work.
>Nemona
Nemona is what Leon would be if Leon were actually well-executed. She's both a rival and a teacher. Her obsession with battling and getting stronger, but also making others stronger, is evident throughout the game in her battles with you. It only makes sense that someone with that much passion would be a strong trainer, and she backs it up. Yeah she suffers from appearing/talking too much, but at least there's the other two stories if you need a break. Leon is coming up or already there if you like it or not.
In summary, Leon is boring, grating and flat. His story is not engaging, his appeal is, as explicitly told to you by SWSH over and over, is that he's super duper strong and charismatic.. But he isn't. He's an uninteresting moron with an okay team who relies on the same bad jokes, shillmon and being the supposed best for his relevancy. Especially compared to other champs, he sucks. tldr My opinion>Ur opinion.
in the games - Cynthia low-diffs Leon
in the anime - she wins with Spiritomb hax (Spiritomb > Pikachu > Leon) + UNDEFEATED Mega Chomp + dynamax Togekiss
Any questions?
>Any questions?
Sinnoh fans are toxic as frick. Thank god, you got the worst remakes in the series that a majority of fans recognize as dogshit. It's your karma.
even the worst of sinnoh is better than gaylar kek
Chadlar = Sold 26 mil
Shitnoh = Sold 15 mil
kek, Shitnoh flopped.
Arceus = 15+ Mil
sword = 13 mil
shield = 13 mil
checkmate, rabbitfricker
>Legends Arceus
>your boss is a Galarian colonizer
kek
gaylard = 26 million sold
kinnoh = 50+ million sold
Seething
You guys are all underage
O-out of ten?
old data
but correct order overall
this is probably the dumbest arguement in this thread given that they're all mutli million sellers
the actualy number doesnt matter after it outsells horizon 0 dawn
>tallying games from different gens and consoles to make your sales look big
not my problem if your region is lagging behind in popularity and sales