Overhyped. Ravel and Kreia had great dialogue and he did well with Planescape. Rose was just a cowboy but a girl! Which any English Major catlady could write.
To his credit, I got the impression his colleagues at Obdisian were kneecapping him and their games suffered for it. They COMPLAINED about how much content he generated. That's like telling someone to work less.
impossible. No one's gayer than Soiyer. OWB > Dead Money > Lonesome Road > Honest Hearts.
>To his credit, I got the impression his colleagues at Obdisian were kneecapping him and their games suffered for it. They COMPLAINED about how much content he generated. That's like telling someone to work less.
That's not how it works in game dev.
Basic example, you have 8 party members that are supposed to have a personal side story spanning 5-6 quests and with text to match, since that's what is in budget.
If 1 writer then writes way more text and sets up a scenario that needs way more quests than that, like 10+, because they just do whatever the frick they want, they're not doing a good job and that's a problem. Because they can't scope and follow spec.
In this scenario it would most likely mean said person would have to re-write and shorten it to be in line with the other party members quests. This takes time and also hurts planning since people that were supposed to be working on the quests are now blocked by the writer going rogue. So they have to wait.
That's Avellone in a nutshell. Someone with too much ego and a terrible person to work with on a bigger project.
The Ulysses situation is a good example. And since NV was fully voice acted it was an even bigger problem. Avellone went way over his word budget, which would have cost god knows how much in additional voice work, and because it was too late in the process the character had to be shelved from the main game. The game suffered due to Avellone's rockstar attitude since Ulysses was meant to be the dedicated Legion sympathizer, and we just didn't get that due to him fricking it up. It's a notable hole in the companion roster and worsens the already skint legion playthrough. Very few artists don't have to play ball with editors and management and whatnot, guys like Thomas Pynchon get a break probably, but Avellone is no Pynchon and it was foolish for him to think the rules don't apply to him.
Techland also complained about this very issue regarding Chris Avellone’s involvement in Dying Light 2. The accusations against him were a convenient excuse to fire him from a game he was mismanaging the narrative of.
>I'm jealous of 50x writers >I'm a woman who wants to leave at 5 every day. >I'm a poo who doesn't give a shit about the final product anyway
From interviews, it dounded like he was being pushed out of the company over time, having less and less input, despite being one of the main selling points of Obsidian at its' founding >from the writer of Planescape!
and responsible in large part for their first game's sucess.
I forget his name but some coworker b***hed on one of their projects Chris had wrote too much. He's like >oh gawd I will have to stay and implement this!
and he was fighting with management to have control over what Chris could or couldn't do.
Every gamer would rather have hard-working devs whose games overflow with content, like The Sith Lords and FNV, then women and poos half-assing unfinished shit like Outer Worlds.
>pull out completely unrelated insults as if that helps you in any way, when it does the opposite
Clueless people might think that Avellone was the main selling point. But let me tell you, there is nothing that annoys game dev companies and game devs more than someone that can't work as a team, can't follow the pipeline and thinks they're the most important person on the team.
THAT is what could lead someone to have less and less input/responsibility and get less and less work.
If you consistently set several production groups back for the same self-important reasons, you're a liability to the project.
>Every gamer would rather have hard-working devs
You're so utterly clueless it's insane. Most devs are "hard working". Crunch is a thing for this very reason and many are passionate and do extra time on their own. Do you care? No, you don't. Instead in your ignorance you call most devs lazy.
People like Avellone can frick over entire game projects and cause a cascade of problems. They can actively make large chunks of games worse. Plus if their off-scope rogue work can't even be used, what's the benefit you bring?
The reality is that you're an ignorant Avellone fanboy that doesn't understand how game dev works.
No one in their right mind wants to work with some self-important and self-titled rockstar.
Those are some big words for a RPGMaker hobbyist homosexual. Go back to making smut spreadsheets, little b***h.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Those are some big words for a RPGMaker hobbyist homosexual. Go back to making smut spreadsheets, little b***h.
I'm a senior game dev that has worked on and designed systems, combat, levels, narrative and even written for RPGs.
I'm currently not working on RPGs however.
Either way, you're out of your element and just decided to shitpost instead, so there is no point in wasting my time on you.
You settled on just shitposting, not discussion.
> But let me tell you, there is nothing that annoys game dev companies and game devs more than someone that can't work as a team, can't follow the pipeline and thinks they're the most important person on the team.
"Pipeline" is cancer.
Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released.
If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years, yet you have 1 clown that keeps fricking up the entire pipeline, setting the game back, what do you do? Do tell.
Do you let them just keep doing whatever they want and hold up programming, art, voiceacting, sfx, designersm, etc?
It's not just that you're blocking them, but their works is ALSO getting pushed back since they have to later use the time intended for future work on getting the thing you held up done instead.
It's unironically people like Avellone that result in "unfinished" games.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No you're not. You're a stress casualty at best. Terrible LARP btw.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>presenting how dev pipeline works using real arguments >avellone fanboys respond by crying and flinging insults and not a single argument
yes, riveting larp on your part. "i was only pretending to be moronic"
2 years ago
Anonymous
You will never be a woman and a game dev.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't want to be a woman and I am a game dev.
But you're in luck anon, your dream of growing up to become a manchild came true.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Says the troony play-pretending as a senior cucklord. You can suck my fat, throbbing, pipeline because I am rabbi Gabe Newell. How about that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Avelltard is absolutely seething
2 years ago
Anonymous
>avelltard
That's sanism. Get cancelled, chud.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released. >If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years
Yeah, just like I said - cancer.
I know that contemporary gamedev is built on an industrial assembly line principle, and "that's how it works" - it's just that the way it works is exactly the reason why the modern gamedev is shit. It doesn't mean that development should consist of a nest of snowflakes doing whatever they like and getting their asses kissed for it, but the system of organization right now is definitely the main reason for why there are so few games and so many bland absolutely interchangable products developed by bland absolutely interchangeable teams so that they could sell for a specific amount of money.
It's like if I said >- Fricking politicians lie and frick us over
andyou >- Well that's how politics work.
Or >- Fricking pyramid schemes scum people out! >- That's how it works. >- Bureaucracy is thoroughly corrupted. >- That's how it works dawg!
Yeah no shit "that's how it works" - and it works like a dumpster fire. The only people who actually care that you can "deliver the product on time" are not the playe~ I mean CONSUMERS - as they can replace your product with almost any other product on the oversaturated market. No, the only people who actually care are your bosses' bosses. And they only care as far as they might have troubles replacing you in less than 3 days.
The industrial manufacture approach towards what is undeniably creative labour is pure unadulterated cancer built on feeding us processed fodder and telling us it is art, so that we would pay for new Assasins Creed like good cashcows. If you support it, I would tell you to kys but you probably think about it regularly already.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The industrial manufacture approach towards what is undeniably creative labour is pure unadulterated cancer built on feeding us processed fodder and telling us it is art, so that we would pay for new Assasins Creed like good cashcows.
Utterly based, (You) earned this.
thank you brother. What's the title of the video you linked?
[...] >[pillpull intensifies]
Try telling the truth.
>title >Gender Gap vs John Carmack (Oculus Connect Keynote)
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thank you brother.
>Alternative is what? >I want specifics
I don't have to provide alternatives to say that the way things are done now is trash - it's not trash because it's worse than alternatives, it's trash because it doesn't give us what we want.
>Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation
It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership, while the environment conducts a natural selection on leadership to be allergic to originality and experimentation.
Brother, I posit the derth of creativity is because our economy's centrally planned by a sterile people.
Consider when Germans were self-governing. They developed rockets, jets, the largest artillery piece in the world, the largest air tunnel in the world, the first interstate highway system in the world, and the atomic bomb.
They were so far ahead both the US/SR supped on their technology for the latter 20th century.
Now contrast with the current climate in the videogame industry and all industries. As Peter Thiel describes, investors spread risk evenly, mimicing whatever has been seen to work, with no balls to innovate. So you get an environment where it doesn't matter which company it is or what man's in charge: they're interchangeable.
They all look to one another and standardize their behavior instead of branching out.
This is an inevitable result of a command economy. If men who innovate aren't permitted to benefit from their innovations and the only form of upward mobility is a banker's approval expressed via investment and loans then everyone's filtered to conform to the nature of bankers.
What is their nature? Cowardly. Tepid. Lacking understanding or vision. So those same traits define the entire society.
>Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released. >If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years
Yeah, just like I said - cancer.
I know that contemporary gamedev is built on an industrial assembly line principle, and "that's how it works" - it's just that the way it works is exactly the reason why the modern gamedev is shit. It doesn't mean that development should consist of a nest of snowflakes doing whatever they like and getting their asses kissed for it, but the system of organization right now is definitely the main reason for why there are so few games and so many bland absolutely interchangable products developed by bland absolutely interchangeable teams so that they could sell for a specific amount of money.
It's like if I said >- Fricking politicians lie and frick us over
andyou >- Well that's how politics work.
Or >- Fricking pyramid schemes scum people out! >- That's how it works. >- Bureaucracy is thoroughly corrupted. >- That's how it works dawg!
Yeah no shit "that's how it works" - and it works like a dumpster fire. The only people who actually care that you can "deliver the product on time" are not the playe~ I mean CONSUMERS - as they can replace your product with almost any other product on the oversaturated market. No, the only people who actually care are your bosses' bosses. And they only care as far as they might have troubles replacing you in less than 3 days.
The industrial manufacture approach towards what is undeniably creative labour is pure unadulterated cancer built on feeding us processed fodder and telling us it is art, so that we would pay for new Assasins Creed like good cashcows. If you support it, I would tell you to kys but you probably think about it regularly already.
Nietzsche proposed society should be organized to produce and raise men of the highest quality possible. There was a great man who implemented this ideal, providing men in his government absolute power to get shit done while demanding of them absolute responsibility.
It's the antithesis of a parliamentary system. Instead of diffusing responsability and risk, so no one's really to blame, as in a corporate structure, you concentrate it. Only the men with shoulders broad enough to bear the weight are worthy to serve in leadership roles. If a man requires a cloak of group-approval to cover his decisions then he's not a leader whether is job title says Chairman or President.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If this isn't some copypasta I missed then this is hilariously sad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your words are lost on the degenerate consoomer homosexuals plaguing this thread.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He's just regurgitating the old ignorant "gamer" spiel. None of those thoughts are his own, he's a parrot and a clueless one at that.
He was proven wrong and as the close-minded person he is, he just ignored it and kept going. In fact you're probably him samegayging trying to salvage that overblown ego.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I dislike Soiyer as a person and a dev. Honest Hearts wasted an entire dlc on noble pacifist savage bullshit. In real life, Americans noted their impressions of tribals: at war they slaughtered enemy tribes women and children, even killing babies. Concepts of quarter, mercy, ransom, and chivalry were unheard of.
[...]
Thank you for the support brothers.
>ITT some troony dev is mad that a man hit on a woman one time. He's mad that people didn't reflexively take the side of opportunistic prostitutes and some people dared to take Avellone's side, or at least the side of reasonable doubt. He's now at post 36 or some shit spouting about pipelines and tedious internal details that no one cares about when we can all clearly see most AAAs have devolved into woke Jack Chick tier narrative tracts for the left and thus have stopped buying output of said pipelines because they're pouring out black aids gunk everywhere like a sewer line at an SF bathhouse
Can't see the forest for the trees huh? Many such cases.
pretty true. I don't think he's even a developer. The way he writes strikes me as the childlike submission to authority of a golem. In his mind, a word like >pipelines
has an aura of authorative power. So he keeps using it as a totem in a vain attempt to dominate our minds, like a shaman shaking a stick above his head, and he's too stupid to understand why we're not impressed. Why it's not working. PIPELINES!
>Going to such lengths for someone that means nothing to me (because it wouldn't be for my benefit, but the ignorant ones) is nonsensical.
Like responding to every reply here?
lol
>society should be organized to produce and raise men of the highest quality possible. There was a great man who implemented this ideal, providing men in his government absolute power to get shit done while demanding of them absolute responsibility.
*Hitler
you troll you know it damn right.
>Brother, I posit the derth of creativity is because our economy's centrally planned by a sterile people.
Based, we need to end White Privilege comrade.
Duckmann and Levine =/= white.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Duckmann and Levine =/= white
What race are the executives? The ones with actual power and not some pretentious washed up developers?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Neil Druckmann is an executive. He's co-president of Naughty Dog.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh God. Bringing up Nietzsche out of context in a video game discussion. Peak poltard pseud posturing
2 years ago
Anonymous
>society should be organized to produce and raise men of the highest quality possible. There was a great man who implemented this ideal, providing men in his government absolute power to get shit done while demanding of them absolute responsibility.
2 years ago
Anonymous
[...]
Stalin is one of the most inhumanely moronic people that set humanity and his own country back massively.
His own moronity and mental immaturity almost cost us things like the seed bank.
He's one of the worst and dumbest leaders is human history.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Brother, I posit the derth of creativity is because our economy's centrally planned by a sterile people.
Based, we need to end White Privilege comrade.
> But let me tell you, there is nothing that annoys game dev companies and game devs more than someone that can't work as a team, can't follow the pipeline and thinks they're the most important person on the team.
"Pipeline" is cancer.
Why do you label Avellone as some sort of egomaniac?
2 years ago
Anonymous
He's difficult to work with on a team. That's why no one wants to bring him onto the team or quickly boot him and why he's mostly brought on by smaller indie devs that don't know him as a consultant.
This isn't because he's some genius that other pleb devs can't understand, it's that he frequently doesn't do what was agreed upon and it results in negative impact on the development.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Entirely baseless accusations that you're pulling out of your ass given the lack of sources quoted.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>consistent word of mouth, own admissions, statements made by people that worked with him and things you can infer due to the repetition >entirely baseless
Meanwhile your idea of Avellone being gods gift to man and it's simply everyone else bringing him down isn't baseless at all.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So no citation? Nice narrative you're trying to pass.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah sorry bro, I don't bookmark literally everything ever just in case I can pull it out when someone on Ganker demands tons of proof about anything I already know.
Going to such lengths for someone that means nothing to me (because it wouldn't be for my benefit, but the ignorant ones) is nonsensical. If you want to remain ignorant and do no legwork yourself then by all means. The responsibility of not being ignorant lies with you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I have to play devil's advocate here. You should keep such sources on hand not for the benefit of the person you are arguing with, they will never learn. Instead you should keep sources on hand for the benefit of any outsiders looking in. It is them who will learn and not the aggressively ignorant person you are arguing with.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You should keep such sources on hand not for the benefit of the person you are arguing with, they will never learn. Instead you should keep sources on hand for the benefit of any outsiders looking in
The amount of bookmarking that would need to be done would go beyond autistic, since it means literally any and all subjects that could be discussed needs to be bookmarked, managed and organized.
And all that for absolutely no benefit to yourself. Sounds great. Maybe you should do that then if you think that's such a great idea.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then you shouldn't debate strangers here, without sources even a debate where you are in the right is just more shit posting on the turd pile. You would be indistinguishable from the average stormgay except that they would have infographs and Nietzsche quotes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Then you shouldn't debate strangers here
Using your faulty logic, no one here should discuss anything. Including you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Honestly? They shouldn't, have you seen what happens when Gankerners discuss something?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shit flies in all directions.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And you've done nothing to stop it even though you have the power to. You don't have to keep every source bookmarked and ready for the inevitable chan ignoramus. There's a reason the infograph genre really took off in this section of the Internet.
The smart thing to do would be to find common chan misconceptions, create an infograph debunking said misconceptions, then posting the graph onto r/Ganker where redditors are ready to do all the debating for you in your stead armed with knowledge you provided. I myself can admit to not knowing much about the industry other than rumours, you could change that you know.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can't even cite one example and talk of ignorance with your grandstanding ITT. Oh, how irony can be funny.
2 years ago
Anonymous
One example of what? That Avellone writes too much and is involved in a lot of unfinished work?
In all honestly I don't care anymore if you want to suck Avellone's wiener and worship him as a perfect god. Maybe if you asked nicely instead of acting like a pirck you might've appealed to my good side to go through the effort. But you didn't.
>Going to such lengths for someone that means nothing to me (because it wouldn't be for my benefit, but the ignorant ones) is nonsensical.
Like responding to every reply here?
Responding a couple of times during work downtime in one thread is incomparable to >ALL articles, videos, VODS, forum posts, snippets or anything that can be deemed a source to anything ever should be bookmarked. potentially even saved/archived in case the sties dies or is taken down >all of this needs to be organized into folders >this process never ends and the bookmarks become a monstrous task of managing and updating, this process will go on for the rest of your life >all for absolutely no personal benefit and the people on Ganker you try to discuss with should ignore it anyway
Oh yeah, you're totally right. Totally worth it and a comparable amount of effort.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bark, bark, bark, that's all that little doggy can do.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yesa, that's why I don't like trying to talk to dogs like you. Stick to sniffing poop and pissing on trees.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your pathetic attempts at being snarky aside, the blame for KOTOR II is collective, it's not Avellone's. They said as much for that Eurogamer interview and your whole crusade against him is ill-informed and boils down to a malicious attack against his character. He also wasn't to blame for Planescape, nor is any one man to blame for anything in vidya, since like someone else said - it is collaborative creative work. Nowhere did I deify him, that's all you ad homineming me because you're so bent on being "in the right" that you don't care about The overall conversation, just about inflsting your ego and being a victor at online "debate", which is why you have a response premade for all of your posts here. A pitty, really.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the blame for KOTOR II is collective, it's not Avellone's.
Avellone is consistently involed in projects where things tied to writing, quest content and otherwise is unfinished or messy.
Obviously there's no common thread here. Where him being heavily involved in the writing didn't affect the end product.
Can all blame be placed on him? No. But pretending that he is blameless is downright delusional.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Good thing nobody other than you is saying that. Which brings me to what I said there, you only care about your beef with Avellone, to which I can only say get help.
2 years ago
Anonymous
NTA but devs at Techland have said that Avellone kept delivering New Vegas quests after he was told to stop. Article is in Polish but it is here
https://polskigamedev.pl/dying-light-2-totalna-rozsypka-vs-tak-sie-robi-gry/
2 years ago
Anonymous
Aight, gonna read that. Thank you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>nobody other than you
For being such a giga fan of Avellone you sure do know nothing about him. Maybe tone down your fanboyism and zealous defence of him, you won't be sucking his wiener anytime soon simply because you do it figuratively.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Going to such lengths for someone that means nothing to me (because it wouldn't be for my benefit, but the ignorant ones) is nonsensical.
Like responding to every reply here?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Avellone's only big development flaw is that he writes too much. By his own admission, he blew past the word budget on Planescape Torment and had to get a lecture from Brian Fargo explaining the bad position he put Interplay in because of the unexpected added localization costs. He learned nothing from that experience given what happened with Ulysses on New Vegas and Durance and Grieving Mother on Pillars of Eternity. However, one of his strengths is that he's a quick writer. In the time it takes an average writer to write thousands of words, he's put in tens of thousands. All a narrative lead has to do is tell him "Good job, now kill your darlings and rewrite it to spec" but for some reason Gonzalez and Fenstermaker were too intimidated to actually say that to him even though Chris claims he would have been happy to rewrite those characters had the request been made. Avellone's worked with inXile and Owlcat multiple times before his cancellation so it's not like he's impossible to work with, you just have to know how to work with him.
lying doesn't change the past salt machine. >wrote most of Planescape: Torment >Kreia's Ravel's b-side
no Avellone = no Planescape
no Avellone = no Sith Lords
no Avellone = no Obsidian
no Avellone = no FNV the best game
There is no Africa or Italy in Pillars of Eternity. "Black people in this setting have this culture because I say they do" works.
Renaissance Venetians are Italian you gaslighting historylet REDGUARD
2 years ago
Anonymous
>no Avellone = no Sith Lords
Feargus is the guy at Obsidian that gets the clients. No Feargus is no Sith Lords and no New Vegas.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yes he's needed too. He secured their first deal with Bioware. Chris Avellone was the main writer for The Sith Lords though to a lesser degree than Planescape.
Notice Soier gaining influence in the company and driving Chris out corresponds with its' downfall.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Avellone was pretty open that it was frustration over being micromanaged by Feargus that made him not want to be a lead at Obsidian anymore, didn't have anything to do with Sawyer, though he envied his ability to get Feargus to do what he wanted.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Josh Sawyer managing to office politics into directing New Vegas and not Avellone, one of the company partners, was some king shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That was really more timing. Aliens, Sawyer's project, was the one that was cancelled, not Alpha Protocol, and Avellone was stuck steering that ship. If it had been the other way around, Avellone would have got New Vegas.
Ultimately the problem with Ulysses and Durance/Grieving Mother is that Sawyer/Gonzalez and Sawyer/Fenstermaker didn't just immediately tell him "Frick you, rewrite this to spec." Instead it was a tepid "O-okay, we'll t-try to make this work" and it inevitably didn't, resulting in painful, late cuts instead of easy, early cuts.
You forgot the ultimate doom this leads to >You're too old to have such little experience/be working in such a low position. Why should I hire/promote you?
>how the frick do you even get a writing job in the gaming industry?
Generally you don't get writing gigs as an entry position, unless you get lucky and find some small indie studio willing to do so.
When it comes to game dev, the most important part is being able to show off what you can do on a portfolio.
In game dev people don't really care about grades or anything like that.
For writing it might be easier to get in as a game designer and then while at studios push to be more involved in the narrative design and writing process.
Don't understand why this board hates this guy but worships sawyer. Of the two I'd say sawyer is far more intolerable on a personal level and his writing.
Sawyerposting is an RPG Codex meme mocking him that was adopted unironically by offsite lefties from Reset Era who hate Avellone and think Sawyer is one of their guys.
If you ever see an unironic Sawyerpost you know it's from homosexuals who shouldn't be here.
>more popular
lol.
Sawyer is known solely by terminally online homosexuals on here and only because of the shilling memes.
Meanwhile people hired Avellone to be part of their high-end KS goals to advertise their Kickstarters because his name has that much brand value in CRPG circles among actual CRPG fans. (i.e. not drones who buy Owlcat/Larian to get their low-tier western dating VNs)
>I'll explain my 3rd wheeling exit strategy by licking your pussy >You may have to listen very hard while your hands dig into the sides of my head and force me deep into your pussy
>random twittershit no one but twitthots care about >vs >being a huge selling point for a 900k KS
It's funny that you think the former matters to anyone but people like you.
That number means very little (since it's not actually "900k". It's a small increment of many KS goals and the actual sum he gets is small (because he does basically no work, he just comes on as a consultant to give some advice).
It's a small pin on a big board.
His biggest project in recent memory was on Dying Light 2, which he was booted from.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the sum he gets
No one was talking about the money he personally makes but him being a major selling point of big kickstarters.
As far as his personal economy concerned he's admitted that he's pretty much set for early retirement if he wants to.
2 years ago
Anonymous
seems dubious considering how much he complained about obsidian trying to leverage his mother's medical bills against him to make him sign NDAs, but maybe dying light 2 just paid that much.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not that dubious. His complaint was Feargus trying to screw him out of shit owed through that and other means, which I think was part of why he left but it's been a while since I read those posts.
I remember that he should have enough to live off his regular low-end lifestyle without having to work which is why he wasn't that worried about contracting work even before he was sabotaged.
Sawyerdrones have been shitposting here for a while
Both of these guys are massive narcissists, but at least Chris has actually made more than one good game
Most of the shit people like about New Vegas wasnt even done by Sawyer too lol, all the best DLCs were Avellone and most of the main game was Gonzales
>Most of the shit people like about New Vegas wasnt even done by
Anon, most things in games aren't done or responsible by 1 person.
Most of the things you enjoy about games and attribute to 1 person is actually done by people you know nothing about.
I dislike Sawyer as a person, but like him as a developer. I like Chris as a person, but dislike him as a developer.
Sawyer I believe is a better all around RPG developer. On top of that, his writing is good. He created Joshua Graham, one of my favorite characters. Chris has created some of my favorite characters, but I hear he strikes out a lot because his shit is off the wall. Story is important to me if it's a heavy story driven game, but gameplay will always come first. Chris' work probably shines in something lore heavy or alien. Like, he'd probably do great writing for The Elder Scrolls.
>On top of that, his writing is good. He created Joshua Graham, one of my favorite characters.
t. don't actually know what good prose is & is 18 years old
Avellone's Graham was nothing like Sawyer's. >I think it's worth noting that in even Van Buren's documents, a lot of the references to the Hanged Man's "evil" refers to past acts. In VB, he was seemingly a man without purpose. While his characterization by others and his tendency to laugh off/ignore attempts by others to control him could have been interesting, it really ended at "nasty guy who says and does creepy stuff and is a badass". There were specific instances (such as at New Canaan) where he would specifically avoid conflict and showed some additional depth, but he effectively had no character arc within the story.
>Personally, I think the "wow so crazy" type characters aren't particularly interesting or insightful because they only exist in pure fantasy and, as such, can't really be related to. I think it's important for characters who are influencing player opinions to be more-or-less human. If you can't put yourself in the character's shoes, it's hard to empathize with him or her.
Avellone writes wild crazy characters that only appear in fiction, Sawyer writes dull boring and plausible people.
I forgot about that shit. That was a big part of why I hated PoE. I gave it a chance and the pozz was radioactive. Trying to immerse yourself in the setting was like trying to bathe in a tub full of AIDS blood.
There's nothing even remotely plausible about african venetians amerilard.
>amerilard
Woah my guy, don't mistake our misfortune for Americans.
Short answer no.
Long answer even if he wins in court he will never be hired because there is too much of a stain on his image and he didn’t even sue all the women that accused him.
He sued both of the ones who made concrete claims and he's looking to win both.
The only thing keeping him from getting hired for projects is that the only studios that do hire americans have licensing agreements with extreme SJWs over at WotC.
Of course nobody would believe him. THere are pictures of him sexually harrassing female employees. He even owned them up and apologized for it, he's still a creep and super rapey. "Wahh i was wrong i'm sorry for sending you all those messages of what i would do to your bleeding front hole without your consent"
>THere are pictures of him sexually harrassing female employees. He even owned them up and apologized for it,
No there aren't and no he didn't. He sent a drunk cringe text to a woman who fricked James Deen on camera and apologized when he realized it was unwanted.
>Awkwardly trying to flirt while drunk outside of work = workplace sexual harassment
Also, the woman that he sent texts to isn't even the one accusing him of anything. It's other people, who never even met him and weren't around for the alleged harassment.
>months
That's incredibly optimistic. One case is stuck in appeals court and won't be resolved until 2023 at the earliest. The other one hasn't even had a chance to enter the appeals process yet.
Well he can live pretty comfortably with what he has earned on a modest budget, then just take up hobbies or indie titles. He might come back, but he's in a position where he might not need to. I imagine he'll make some indie shit some day.
For some reason Sawyer keeps living rent free in their heads. They probably see him as some sort of arch-enemy to Avellone because he jokingly roasted him that one time.
For some reason Sawyer keeps living rent free in their heads. They probably see him as some sort of arch-enemy to Avellone because he jokingly roasted him that one time.
Meanwhile in reality for anyone bright enough to check archive. >every Avellone thread has Sawyergays seething about him >half of Sawyer threads are just thinly veiled whining about Avellone
I respect Avellone but the older I get, the more I realise that story and dialogue and writing is not that important in a game. Some tight dialogue and a well thought out plot is all you need. You don't need these grand narratives and clash of civilisation stuff that you have with things like democracy vs empire in Fallout: New Vegas. Although I really do love Caesar from F:NV, I think that could have been a series of novels rather than a game faction. I want cool systems in a game now.
In a single RPG ever. Take out the story and you've got a strategy game genre that's hopelessly limited by its conventions. Closest a RPG ever got to good mechanics design was DOS1 and even then by midgame you got so many skills and possibilities that murdering enemies on hardest difficulty was a boring formality.
Kreia is cryptic but Ulysses is something else entirely, holy shit. I don't think it is a good idea to have a single mouthpiece in a series. Each character should really speak their own position and the message should shine through at the end. Having a semi-narrator is very ham fisted.
He wrote good stuff like Elijah and Cass.
Ulysses is less of an issue with writing and more one of design, no one wants to hear someone blather on non-stop as they try to play the game.
>dialogue isn't important >Some tight dialogue and a well thought out plot is all you need
is this bait or are you really dumb enough to immediately contradict yourself
Irrelevant. Quit defending creepy rapey incels. It's pathetic. I can't wait for him, and for you, to have a nice day. Women will never want you, die already.
>They probably see him as some sort of arch-enemy
They do. It’s very sad.
>incels
Christ you troons have really gone off the edge. Avellone is married. >sawyer
literally 90% of posts about him are people who think he's some sort of counter to posts about avellone.
Chris broke-up with an asian bawd. She lied and said he abused her somehow to get back at him. Other bawds started backing her up and compounding her lies with lies of their own to smear him. Our misfortune promote such stories to destroy the last remaining vestiges of power peasants retain in our kibbutz.
>Why do you guys dick ride this homosexual so hard?
Because they're mentally immature. They like some projects he's worked on and become irrational fanboys. They then convince themselves that everything that wasn't good in things he was involved in wasn't his fault.
It's also never a good idea to attribute all that is good to 1 person, since game development is collaborative.
Fun fact, games are still collaborative and consist of larger teams now.
If you have your writer write up that the player battles 100 different and compeltely unique dragons in terms of look, VO, attacks, etc. and they all have 10 individual quest chains that needs to be coded and all needs unique code support for each.
This is dumped on the ones working on quest design, programming, art, etc. right as they're about to start working on it and they were specced out in the pipeline to not even have 1/2 of this.
What exactly is the right call here? Who fricked up? Is game dev still not collaborative?
>muh quest chains
Oh wow implementing a fetch quest and the nth iteration of get ten wolf pelts. As if modern quest chains amounts to notable overhead.
No one cares if dogshit like the PoE devs has to work overtime to implement something mildly interesting for once in their lives.
I very much am, you however, are not. Which is a good thing. Since immature close-minded children are best kept out. This was your final (you) and you wasted your chance of learning of game dev. Nice job.
I'm replaying kotor 2 and I swear every time I play the game I pick up on something I never noticed before or find something new. In this playthrough I've seen 2 things I've never seen before.
>when you're doing the bounties on Telos and you're asking the dock workers for information, if you fail the persuade checks and have kreia with you she'll use force persuade to get the information for you >when trying to break into the Czerka mainframe you can follow Corrun Falt home and threaten him in his own home, he'll call Czerka security and try to stall you out before they arrive (there's a Precognition of the security guys arriving to tip you off).
Honestly blows my mind, I've played both of these games over 20 times each and I'm still finding new shit.
I'm a homosexual when i use reasoning and facts and the other party only uses insult in a discussion. Clearly the problem lies with devs here. If only we had immature manchildren making games instead, I agree.
>pull out completely unrelated insults as if that helps you in any way, when it does the opposite
Clueless people might think that Avellone was the main selling point. But let me tell you, there is nothing that annoys game dev companies and game devs more than someone that can't work as a team, can't follow the pipeline and thinks they're the most important person on the team.
THAT is what could lead someone to have less and less input/responsibility and get less and less work.
If you consistently set several production groups back for the same self-important reasons, you're a liability to the project.
>Every gamer would rather have hard-working devs
You're so utterly clueless it's insane. Most devs are "hard working". Crunch is a thing for this very reason and many are passionate and do extra time on their own. Do you care? No, you don't. Instead in your ignorance you call most devs lazy.
People like Avellone can frick over entire game projects and cause a cascade of problems. They can actively make large chunks of games worse. Plus if their off-scope rogue work can't even be used, what's the benefit you bring?
The reality is that you're an ignorant Avellone fanboy that doesn't understand how game dev works.
No one in their right mind wants to work with some self-important and self-titled rockstar.
>crunch makes us hard-working
nah. There are plenty of jobs with mandatory overtime, double-shifts, night shifts, etc.
When games were good they were passion projects for the men working on them and some would even sleep in the office some nights to add features to the game. Nowadays crunch is a vain effort to get the noodlecode of poos to stop crashing.
>the team >the team
It's not individual vs team it's high standards vs low standards. Consider two scenarios
1. Everyone on the team does their utmost. They're working hard, striving, and each man looks to the man besides him and sees he's striving too. They're in the same fight together. As they get tired, this encourages them to not lose heart and keep at it. They'll get one more item off the wishlist in before asset-lock.
2. Just treat it like a who-gives-a-shit job. Oh my shift's done? See you guys later. I have lamaze with the girls.
Even a small team of highly skilled men working hard will outperform bloated teams of talentless make-work employees doing the least. This's why games take longer to make, have fewer features, and are less stable despite bigger (nonwhite nonmale) teams and budgets than ever before.
>Even a small team of highly skilled men working hard will outperform bloated teams of talentless make-work employees doing the least.
Looking Glass, old Bethesda, Ion Storm, id Software, old Blizzard. These names we'll make diamonds from their ashes, take them into battle with us.
Carmack worked for Nasa as a hobby. He said solving videogame math problems was harder than rocket science.
>Even a small team of highly skilled men working hard will outperform bloated teams of talentless make-work employees doing the least. This's why games take longer to make, have fewer features, and are less stable despite bigger (nonwhite nonmale) teams and budgets than ever before.
I think in many ways this comes down to management knowing what's within their financial and manpower reach. Supergiant Games is probably THE best modern example of a team that knows what they're capable of.
despite their insulting portrayal of Greeks as black and gay, they do make mechanically solid and fun games.
But no, it's not, "biting off more than they can chew". Again these teams have
1. More personnel and
2. More time and
3. Bigger budgets
yet accomplish less by every metric.
This isn't an isolated example. It's a synecdoche of the entire industry. The people paid today to "develop games" CAN'T reproduce the software white men made 10+ years ago.
Don't pretend it's coincidence Japan has magnerails while other countries can't maintain roads foreign investors build for them.
>management
Look at Druckmann, Levine, or Bodarski. Their incompetence ruined projects and even destroyed companies. Yet men of their ilk keep getting hired and promoted DESPITE their failures.
On a more minor example of this same theme: lookup the controversy over Doom Eternal's OST and the "audio engineer" who ruined it. Id hired a Levine-type who doesn't know how to edit sound files as an "audio engineer", to help a musician who already mastered his own soundtrack sucessfully on Doom (so why would he need a new assistant?), when the two argued Id sided with their noskill makework employee over the man who made the soundtrack everyone loved, and when push come to shove they basically fired the talent, put-out a fricked-up batch of soundfiles mixed by their incompetent Levine, gagged the musician and said they wouldn't work with him again.
The problems with the videogame industry are indicative of much more fundamental, wider-reaching social ills poisoning the people's body.
>anon doing God's work of rubbing lurking wokoid devs noses in their failures
I salute your truthful savagery. Never let up on these clowns until their whole industry(ies) implode(s) and can be rebuilt.
thank you brother. What's the title of the video you linked?
>This isn't an isolated example. It's a synecdoche of the entire industry. The people paid today to "develop games" CAN'T reproduce the software white men made 10+ years ago.
You don't even know 1% of modern game tech yet thinks it's a good idea to share your utterly clueless opinion. Then again, that's ignorant players for you.
>management >Look at Druckmann, Levine, or Bodarski. Their incompetence ruined projects and even destroyed companies. Yet men of their ilk keep getting hired and promoted DESPITE their failures.
Nice confirmation bias and cherrypicking.
Game projects were BY FAR worse managed back in the day. An uncountable amount of games turned to shit because of atrocious management and even ones that didn't fail were atrociously managed. We're talking so poorly managed it forced pretty much all devs on the team to live at the office in 100% crunch mode for months, if not years.
In your mind, this is "good management".
You probably think that underpromising and underdelivering is good management as well.
>The problems with the videogame industry are indicative of much more fundamental, wider-reaching social ills poisoning the people's body.
There are many problems in game dev, but you're completely and utterly clueless of all of them, as you so perfectly demonstrated. Bravo.
But keep making these baseless assumptions. It's at the very least amusing.
>This isn't an isolated example. It's a synecdoche of the entire industry. The people paid today to "develop games" CAN'T reproduce the software white men made 10+ years ago.
You don't even know 1% of modern game tech yet thinks it's a good idea to share your utterly clueless opinion. Then again, that's ignorant players for you.
>management >Look at Druckmann, Levine, or Bodarski. Their incompetence ruined projects and even destroyed companies. Yet men of their ilk keep getting hired and promoted DESPITE their failures.
Nice confirmation bias and cherrypicking.
Game projects were BY FAR worse managed back in the day. An uncountable amount of games turned to shit because of atrocious management and even ones that didn't fail were atrociously managed. We're talking so poorly managed it forced pretty much all devs on the team to live at the office in 100% crunch mode for months, if not years.
In your mind, this is "good management".
You probably think that underpromising and underdelivering is good management as well.
>The problems with the videogame industry are indicative of much more fundamental, wider-reaching social ills poisoning the people's body.
There are many problems in game dev, but you're completely and utterly clueless of all of them, as you so perfectly demonstrated. Bravo.
But keep making these baseless assumptions. It's at the very least amusing.
>Game projects were BY FAR worse managed back in the day. An uncountable amount of games turned to shit because of atrocious management and even ones that didn't fail were atrociously managed. We're talking so poorly managed it forced pretty much all devs on the team to live at the office in 100% crunch mode for months, if not years.
From what I can tell, this is still the case for most studios. Look at Bioware, CD Projekt, what's going on with Obsidian's Avowed (but just Avowed, from what I can tell, their other projects are fine). A big difference is that it seems like it's no longer the case to reliably crunch your way into a good game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Crunch is the case for studios is countries that don't care about workers rights or companies that are just straight up bad places to work in.
Bioware management infamously called the team crunching to try and save a game project for "Bioware Magic". They still did during Anthem's development.
To go back to another studio mentioned ITT, Supergiant for example is a stuido that doesn't crunch yet manages to release quality and well received games.
thank you brother. What's the title of the video you linked?
[...] >[pillpull intensifies]
Try telling the truth.
>Try telling the truth.
Try actually discussing something rationally instead of >(oh shit, the person said something I can't counter, w-what do I do??? I-I know...!) >"Try telling the truth" >Yeah! T-that showed him! I can't counter anything he said but I called him a liar, I'm so smart!
[...]
Thank you brother that's very flattering. Your image's very cool! You would likely appreciate Mordhau if you have not played it already.
[...] >based
thank you bro- >schizo
I'm not israeli.
If you are referring to the Doom incident, the sound files were hard limited. Listen to the first Eternal trailer and the final release OST. A layman can hear the difference.
The musician said basically, "I can't talk about it" and Id's official statements are like, "we enjoyed working with him in the past and wish him the best in future endeavors; Moshe Feinberg is an excellent audio engineer who did nothing wrong we don't understand why the talented Ozzie musician argues with him".
>late state capitalism
commie gobbledyasiatic.
>profit
No
Blackrock and other investors fund videogame development, not game sales or even microtransactions.
>everyone quit because of bad working conditions
No.
Again teams are BIGGER than before. They have hired more people. But you can't replace Carmack with 3 Lily Sings.
>Again teams are BIGGER than before. They have hired more people. But you can't replace Carmack with 3 Lily Sings.
You think there aren't highly talented people know? Good know your knowledge of the industry isn't even surface level, it's just floating in the air, like the airhead you are. Completely and utterly clueless.
The fact is you don't give a single frick about the extremely taleneted people, especially tech ones, working in the industry right now. Partially because you don't know about anyone that doesn't get plastered on reddit or wherever you get your non-existant game info on, but also because whoever does the incredible tech in some games is someone you would care about even if you know.
You're also so controlled by your bias and emotions that you would ignore them based on game association.
Basic example, you don't give 2 fricks or even understand what the devs behind the tech of Last of Us 2 did. You look at this and think "Uuuh, I don't get any of that but that isn't anything special or difficult, I think"
GPU Driven Effects on LoU2
Technical Art of The LoU2
2 years ago
Anonymous
>GPU Driven Effects on LoU2 >WTH is this shit? >layer with a shader applied onto it >layers upon of minor textures >a texture filter
Wow! It is almost like my cousin boasting that he was a master at photoshop and proceeding to use every filter available on his 2004 forum signature.
Also TLOU2
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thanks for proving literally everything I said correct. It's always nice to have a live example of the kind of idiots I'm talking about.
>Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released. >If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years
Yeah, just like I said - cancer.
I know that contemporary gamedev is built on an industrial assembly line principle, and "that's how it works" - it's just that the way it works is exactly the reason why the modern gamedev is shit. It doesn't mean that development should consist of a nest of snowflakes doing whatever they like and getting their asses kissed for it, but the system of organization right now is definitely the main reason for why there are so few games and so many bland absolutely interchangable products developed by bland absolutely interchangeable teams so that they could sell for a specific amount of money.
It's like if I said >- Fricking politicians lie and frick us over
andyou >- Well that's how politics work.
Or >- Fricking pyramid schemes scum people out! >- That's how it works. >- Bureaucracy is thoroughly corrupted. >- That's how it works dawg!
Yeah no shit "that's how it works" - and it works like a dumpster fire. The only people who actually care that you can "deliver the product on time" are not the playe~ I mean CONSUMERS - as they can replace your product with almost any other product on the oversaturated market. No, the only people who actually care are your bosses' bosses. And they only care as far as they might have troubles replacing you in less than 3 days.
The industrial manufacture approach towards what is undeniably creative labour is pure unadulterated cancer built on feeding us processed fodder and telling us it is art, so that we would pay for new Assasins Creed like good cashcows. If you support it, I would tell you to kys but you probably think about it regularly already.
>Yeah, just like I said - cancer.
Alternative is what? Everyone does whatever the frick they want in a disorganized manner, causing people's tasks to get blocked, forcing incredible amounts of crunch, extreme amounts of unpolished content, production going over budget, etc?
I want specifics. How should game production function. Not vague "well you know... like the old days!" which is what I described above as happening.
Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation. In fact, good management and pipleline makes this even easier and safer to do.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Alternative is what? >I want specifics
I don't have to provide alternatives to say that the way things are done now is trash - it's not trash because it's worse than alternatives, it's trash because it doesn't give us what we want.
>Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation
It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership, while the environment conducts a natural selection on leadership to be allergic to originality and experimentation.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I don't have to
1. You don't know how it's done know, as you demonstraterd.
2. You don't know what the problems are.
3. You don't know how to fix the problems.
Everything you said is either wrong, ignorant or useless.
>It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership
Factually incorrect, but you don't know what you're talking about (but still think it's a good idea to open your mouth).
You're literally just pulling shit from your ass with a made up understanding of how game development works from the same hole.
Let me put it simply, if you do not know what the pipeline is like, you do not know how it affects development. This is cold hard fact.
For example, let me give you an easy test. What does the pipeline for creating a new level in say a shooter look like (I say shooter, because it's less likely you'll frick it up).
Do this and I can correct you and tell you why you're wrong about literally everything about your understandings of "pipelines".
Assuming you want to learn that is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You don't know >You don't know >You don't know >you do not know
Bruh that's four times in one post.
>Everything you said is either wrong, ignorant or useless. >You're literally just pulling shit from your ass
Which exact parts of these 3 posts
>Those are some big words for a RPGMaker hobbyist homosexual. Go back to making smut spreadsheets, little b***h.
I'm a senior game dev that has worked on and designed systems, combat, levels, narrative and even written for RPGs.
I'm currently not working on RPGs however.
Either way, you're out of your element and just decided to shitpost instead, so there is no point in wasting my time on you.
You settled on just shitposting, not discussion.
[...]
Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released.
If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years, yet you have 1 clown that keeps fricking up the entire pipeline, setting the game back, what do you do? Do tell.
Do you let them just keep doing whatever they want and hold up programming, art, voiceacting, sfx, designersm, etc?
It's not just that you're blocking them, but their works is ALSO getting pushed back since they have to later use the time intended for future work on getting the thing you held up done instead.
It's unironically people like Avellone that result in "unfinished" games.
>Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released. >If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years
Yeah, just like I said - cancer.
I know that contemporary gamedev is built on an industrial assembly line principle, and "that's how it works" - it's just that the way it works is exactly the reason why the modern gamedev is shit. It doesn't mean that development should consist of a nest of snowflakes doing whatever they like and getting their asses kissed for it, but the system of organization right now is definitely the main reason for why there are so few games and so many bland absolutely interchangable products developed by bland absolutely interchangeable teams so that they could sell for a specific amount of money.
It's like if I said >- Fricking politicians lie and frick us over
andyou >- Well that's how politics work.
Or >- Fricking pyramid schemes scum people out! >- That's how it works. >- Bureaucracy is thoroughly corrupted. >- That's how it works dawg!
Yeah no shit "that's how it works" - and it works like a dumpster fire. The only people who actually care that you can "deliver the product on time" are not the playe~ I mean CONSUMERS - as they can replace your product with almost any other product on the oversaturated market. No, the only people who actually care are your bosses' bosses. And they only care as far as they might have troubles replacing you in less than 3 days.
The industrial manufacture approach towards what is undeniably creative labour is pure unadulterated cancer built on feeding us processed fodder and telling us it is art, so that we would pay for new Assasins Creed like good cashcows. If you support it, I would tell you to kys but you probably think about it regularly already.
>Alternative is what? >I want specifics
I don't have to provide alternatives to say that the way things are done now is trash - it's not trash because it's worse than alternatives, it's trash because it doesn't give us what we want.
>Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation
It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership, while the environment conducts a natural selection on leadership to be allergic to originality and experimentation.
are wrong or ignorant?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>are wrong or ignorant?
Literally everything. As I said. Absolutely everything and I'm not joking.
This is why to demonstrate this I asked you to do a simple task of explaining the straightforward pipeline of making a level for a shooter.
Because if you can't even get that right, why on earth would give you the idea you understand the pipeline of an entire game.
Now care to answer the simple question I posed you? Answering it correctly would help you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Literally everything.
Quote a line.
>Now care to answer the simple question I posed you? Answering it correctly would help you.
t literally wouldn't, as you can just keep going for more and more specific details until you get a "GOTCHA". This is the one and only purpose of your question.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Quote a line.
Pick one yourself, doesn't matter to me since they're all wrong.
>This is the one and only purpose of your question.
The point is to actually demonstrate that you don't know what a game dev pipeline actually looks like instead of just saying "you're wrong". I was doing you a favor. If you prefer I can just keep telling you that you're wrong and not elaborating on why.
The main thing here is that you basically try to peddle the idea that creativity is stiffened in modern pipelines. That doing what Avellone does is a good thing. That blocking people, creating development debt, creating un-useable content, overscoping, etc. are all desirable things and for some illogical reason would result in a better game. Which it doesn't, but the exact opposite.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>>Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation >It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership, while the environment conducts a natural selection on leadership to be allergic to originality and experimentation.
Nailed it. Now compound this with leadership more often being israeli or a woman.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He didn't nail anything. He got literally everything wrong. He has a vague and completely wrong idea of what a pipeline is.
Games are brainstormed by lead devs, directors, producer, etc. even before pre-production.
Prototypes are then typically built to test the harder problems of said ideas that were selected.
The game is then pitched to publisher(s) to see if they think it's viable and would stand out enough (note: this was true 40 years ago as it is now).
The game is then given more time to cook and typically enters pre-production. If the game is looking good and promising enough by the end of the agreed upon period (could be months/years) it enters full-production.
During full production time is set aside for brainstorming for more individual parts and go through a similar process, except on a smaller scale.
This is just at a macro level and doesn't account for any micro experimentation done by individual devs.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Games are brainstormed by lead devs, directors, producer, etc. even before pre-production.
How would the targets for said brainstorming be set?
>Prototypes are then typically built to test the harder problems of said ideas that were selected.
What defines the said problems?
>The game is then pitched to publisher(s) to see if they think it's viable and would stand out enough (note: this was true 40 years ago as it is now).
I never said that anything was perfect or even good 40 years ago. And on a more relevant note - how does the publisher evaluate the pitch?
> If the game is looking good and promising enough by the end of the agreed upon period
What determines whether the game "looks good and promising" by the end of pre-production?
>During full production time is set aside for brainstorming for more individual parts and go through a similar process
Brainstorming towards what?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>How would the targets for said brainstorming be set?
What targets? What are you on about?
Did you mean selling points, game pillars/player experience goals or...?
>What defines the said problems?
If they're identified as problems or not? Can be many things.
Doesn't align with what was agreed upon during the prior brainstorming/promise is usually the case.
Or to dumb it down: If you try to make a horror game and the game isn't remotely scary. If you try to make a game where using a main weapon as a fun action game yet you can't make it even remotely fun after 6 months of prototyping. If you find out that what you wanted to make is way overscoped for your team and budget and there'd be no way that you could make it. etc. etc. etc.
>And on a more relevant note - how does the publisher evaluate the pitch?
A gigantic topic in and of itself. If you want a decent and short summary
But it goes way beyond this.
>What determines whether the game "looks good and promising" by the end of pre-production?
See what I answered prior in this post.
>Brainstorming towards what?
Whatever needs to be brainstormed. What a level should be about, what players do in the level, how the level looks, how long the level should be, what abilities a character might have, what the animation for various attacks should look like, should the animation use root-motion or not, should attacks have warping or not, what timing and pacing should attacks have, what sort of quests should the game have, what sort of perks should characters have, etc.
Anything that needs to be brainstormed and then approved by leads and/or game directors/producers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
...and then you b***h about being evasive and demand specifics, huh?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You asked me vague things and want very specific answers?
Take teh first one for example >How would the targets for said brainstorming be set?
What does this even mean? "Targets" is not a game development term, it's one you came up with. So how am I supposed to know what you meant?
I asked you to clarify and dropped some suggestions for things you might've meant.
Selling points should be easy enough, I shouldn't need to explain it.
Game Pillars are key things decided upon by the higher ups (typically director and leads) to align and focus the team.
For a horror game this can be things like "Should be scary", "Shouldn't be complicated to play", "Should have a deep story about the pain of loss", etc.
Player experience goals are similar to Pillars, but they focus on what the player's experience should be like. Both Pillars and experience goals are there to allow for micro developmer expression, but not result in the game is a confused shitshow. I.e. so the writer for your serious horor game understand that you don't want to have a bunch of fart jokes make up half of the game's dialogue, but you leave room for them to explore the heme of "deep story about pain of loss".
So now I ask again. What do you mean by "targets"? I can't give answers if I don't even know what you'e talking about. Stop me at any time if this doesn't make sense to you and that I should be able to mind-read you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's admirable that you're putting so much effort into this but it's going to waste. This site is for con artist to trick people with low social skills into buying into their schizophrenic point of view.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Meds, now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>LoU2 is proof there's still talent!
This argues against your point. Despite some white and asian men remaining to make LoU2 LOOK good it's hated because the story's about a troony murdering a white man and lesbians murdering survivors.
Why is the story about a troony murdering a white man? Because Neil Druckmann is an Israeli israelite. The propaganda piece has players visit a synagoguge, where they can't desecrate stars of moloch, and characters praise israelites.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's hated
Lmao. Leave your bubble.
2 years ago
Anonymous
t. games journalist
2 years ago
Anonymous
>>LoU2 is proof there's still talent!
Learn to read. I said there are for example very talented tech people at Naughty Dog (since that other anon went on about Carmack which was a tech guy and an atrocious designer).
I brought up LoU2 as an example that people here would brush off even faster because it's LoU2 (i.e. they're irrational and biased, not judging the tech objectively).
The point is that claiming that there is no longer any talented devs left, especially in tech, is so insanely ignorant and wrong it's not even funny.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I am a lying israelite
You know why everyone hates the game. It's no secret. It has been said here
>LoU2 is proof there's still talent!
This argues against your point. Despite some white and asian men remaining to make LoU2 LOOK good it's hated because the story's about a troony murdering a white man and lesbians murdering survivors.
Why is the story about a troony murdering a white man? Because Neil Druckmann is an Israeli israelite. The propaganda piece has players visit a synagoguge, where they can't desecrate stars of moloch, and characters praise israelites.
> hated because the story's about a troony murdering a white man and lesbians murdering survivors. >The propaganda piece has players visit a synagoguge, where they can't desecrate stars of moloch, and characters praise israelites.
and here
>goyim will buy anything
no.
Lying israelite see
[...]
The israeliteess Hamburger Helper, imfamous for hating videogames yet being paid to write them, was so hated by gamers, who stopped buying Bioware products ~a decade ago, that the announcement of her inclusion in a Kickstarter game caused the backers to withdraw their funding resulting in its' cancellation.
Also see
[...]
LoU2 is universally lambasted, hated by everyone, and sold so poorly it went on sell within the first month of release.
The fact Druckmann was promoted instead of fired tells every man with a mind who the problem is.
>sold so poorly it went on sell within the first month of release. >The fact Druckmann was promoted instead of fired tells every man with a mind who the problem is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>being illiterate >spergs out about irrelevant shit
The game's narrative or w/e sucking is completely irrelevant to the point I made. But I can tell you just want to scream about how much you hate LoU2.
Until you go back and actually read and absord what I actually said, there is nothing more to say. Heck, you probably don't even understand this text I'm writing right now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Reading is for betas, sigma males like me just invent enemies to fight and win against.
2 years ago
Anonymous
True, fr fr. Fax and logix.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>absord
I read what you wrote. I don't understand it. Can you explain it to me? Is an absord like a Power Ranger mech?
>psychoanalyzing entire dev teams from the sidelines based on "vibes" and personal bias
based schizo.
If anything, the reason modern games are in decline is just late stage capitalism prioritizing profits over everything else, but I get the feeling implying that could possible be the case causes you to reflexively recoil in outrage. That and the shitty working conditions causing all the real talent to leave the industry in droves when they realize they can make twice as much doing 1/4 the work coding for some corporation.
You're right. Suggesting that corporations chase profit over anything else is silly. The real issue is we just don't have enough mega-big-brain-men that are team players that do a job only .01% of the population is capable of doing for peanuts.
Video game publishers were prioritizing profits over everything else since their inception. People invest in things because they want to make money. On the other hand, the barrier to entry to making and succeeding with indie games is lower than ever.
>we need to jam in as much diversity and homosexualry as possible >because it sells
people like you still exist?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>we need to jam in as much diversity and homosexualry as possible >because it sells
Yes. That is literally why they do it. Why else? Unless you believe modern game devs are some elders of zion conspiracy against straight white males.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>we need to jam in as much diversity and homosexualry as possible >because it sells
people like you still exist?
White males are the ones buying these products. The self-hatred is extremely real.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>he doesn't know about the Urban market
2 years ago
Anonymous
Where they sell knockoff jordans out of vans or where you get that rock?
2 years ago
Anonymous
[...]
White males are the ones buying these products. The self-hatred is extremely real.
"Conspiracy" gives what leftists do way too much credit for having any direction. It's more of a cross section of low self esteem and easily emotionally manipulated incompetence.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It’s business 101, they have white gamer nerds completely locked in to what they are selling. Now they are trying to expand into untapped markets. That you think it’s leftist politics is both hilarious and sad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>goyim will buy anything
no.
Lying israelite see
>masters of their craft
Carmack worked for Nasa as a hobby. He said solving videogame math problems was harder than rocket science.
[...]
despite their insulting portrayal of Greeks as black and gay, they do make mechanically solid and fun games.
But no, it's not, "biting off more than they can chew". Again these teams have
1. More personnel and
2. More time and
3. Bigger budgets
yet accomplish less by every metric.
This isn't an isolated example. It's a synecdoche of the entire industry. The people paid today to "develop games" CAN'T reproduce the software white men made 10+ years ago.
Don't pretend it's coincidence Japan has magnerails while other countries can't maintain roads foreign investors build for them.
>management
Look at Druckmann, Levine, or Bodarski. Their incompetence ruined projects and even destroyed companies. Yet men of their ilk keep getting hired and promoted DESPITE their failures.
On a more minor example of this same theme: lookup the controversy over Doom Eternal's OST and the "audio engineer" who ruined it. Id hired a Levine-type who doesn't know how to edit sound files as an "audio engineer", to help a musician who already mastered his own soundtrack sucessfully on Doom (so why would he need a new assistant?), when the two argued Id sided with their noskill makework employee over the man who made the soundtrack everyone loved, and when push come to shove they basically fired the talent, put-out a fricked-up batch of soundfiles mixed by their incompetent Levine, gagged the musician and said they wouldn't work with him again.
The problems with the videogame industry are indicative of much more fundamental, wider-reaching social ills poisoning the people's body.
The israeliteess Hamburger Helper, imfamous for hating videogames yet being paid to write them, was so hated by gamers, who stopped buying Bioware products ~a decade ago, that the announcement of her inclusion in a Kickstarter game caused the backers to withdraw their funding resulting in its' cancellation.
Also see
>LoU2 is proof there's still talent!
This argues against your point. Despite some white and asian men remaining to make LoU2 LOOK good it's hated because the story's about a troony murdering a white man and lesbians murdering survivors.
Why is the story about a troony murdering a white man? Because Neil Druckmann is an Israeli israelite. The propaganda piece has players visit a synagoguge, where they can't desecrate stars of moloch, and characters praise israelites.
LoU2 is universally lambasted, hated by everyone, and sold so poorly it went on sell within the first month of release.
The fact Druckmann was promoted instead of fired tells every man with a mind who the problem is.
[...]
Thank you brother that's very flattering. Your image's very cool! You would likely appreciate Mordhau if you have not played it already.
[...] >based
thank you bro- >schizo
I'm not israeli.
If you are referring to the Doom incident, the sound files were hard limited. Listen to the first Eternal trailer and the final release OST. A layman can hear the difference.
The musician said basically, "I can't talk about it" and Id's official statements are like, "we enjoyed working with him in the past and wish him the best in future endeavors; Moshe Feinberg is an excellent audio engineer who did nothing wrong we don't understand why the talented Ozzie musician argues with him".
>late state capitalism
commie gobbledyasiatic.
>profit
No
Blackrock and other investors fund videogame development, not game sales or even microtransactions.
>everyone quit because of bad working conditions
No.
Again teams are BIGGER than before. They have hired more people. But you can't replace Carmack with 3 Lily Sings.
>"Could it be that the entire gamedev process is masterfully, efficiently focused on something OTHER than actually making good games that people enjoy?" >"No, it is the entire human race that went to shit worldwide in like 15 years"
>Even a small team of highly skilled men working hard will outperform bloated teams of talentless make-work employees doing the least. This's why games take longer to make, have fewer features, and are less stable despite bigger (nonwhite nonmale) teams and budgets than ever before.
I think in many ways this comes down to management knowing what's within their financial and manpower reach. Supergiant Games is probably THE best modern example of a team that knows what they're capable of.
makes us hard-working
The game industry is one of the industries where it's very common to have people overwork and spend extra time because of their passion for games.
Thinking that this is uncommon is really telling for how little you know of the industry.
In places where there is no mandatory crunch it's even frowned upon to overwork for many reasons >company can get into shit for it >it makes planning much harder if someone sporadically produces content at a pace that doesn't align with work hours >etc
Pleave leave your ignorance at the door if you want me to reply to you. There's nothing I hate more than stubborn ignorance. Claiming devs were only passionate in some made up timeframe in your head cements this.
>t's not individual vs team it's high standards vs low standards. Consider two scenarios
Oh god, please leave your baseless ignorant idea of how game dev works out of this thread.
Every person on the team is scheduled to work on specific tasks for months, if not an entire year in advance. This is so people have a realistic workload, become available to work on tasks when needed, etc.
i.e. when the level designer has concepted, pitched, prototyped, playtested and made the level (extremely condensed version of the process) it is then handed off to art.
The level designer was tasked with creating a level based on certain specs. If they however went rogue and made something completely out of spec, that isn't admirable. That's a flat out liability. >designer made lots of pieces that would require way too much custom 3D/2D/VFX art >amount of level that would need an art pass, lighting pass, etc is unmanageable for the art team >etc
Either the designer is forced to redo the level, setting everyone back on the project (delaying other tasks or people later being tied up elsewhere) OR you do the stupid thing and try and make his rogue level work. This results in tons of crunch.
cont..
makes us hard-working
The game industry is one of the industries where it's very common to have people overwork and spend extra time because of their passion for games.
Thinking that this is uncommon is really telling for how little you know of the industry.
In places where there is no mandatory crunch it's even frowned upon to overwork for many reasons >company can get into shit for it >it makes planning much harder if someone sporadically produces content at a pace that doesn't align with work hours >etc
Pleave leave your ignorance at the door if you want me to reply to you. There's nothing I hate more than stubborn ignorance. Claiming devs were only passionate in some made up timeframe in your head cements this.
>t's not individual vs team it's high standards vs low standards. Consider two scenarios
Oh god, please leave your baseless ignorant idea of how game dev works out of this thread.
Every person on the team is scheduled to work on specific tasks for months, if not an entire year in advance. This is so people have a realistic workload, become available to work on tasks when needed, etc.
i.e. when the level designer has concepted, pitched, prototyped, playtested and made the level (extremely condensed version of the process) it is then handed off to art.
The level designer was tasked with creating a level based on certain specs. If they however went rogue and made something completely out of spec, that isn't admirable. That's a flat out liability. >designer made lots of pieces that would require way too much custom 3D/2D/VFX art >amount of level that would need an art pass, lighting pass, etc is unmanageable for the art team >etc
Either the designer is forced to redo the level, setting everyone back on the project (delaying other tasks or people later being tied up elsewhere) OR you do the stupid thing and try and make his rogue level work. This results in tons of crunch.
cont..
cont..
And in addition to the crunch it would STILL set everyone involved back. Considering the timeframe you might not even have the time or budget for this. You might have expected deadlines or tons of other things that can cause problems.
Now this designer keeps doing this shit CONSTANTLY and in your mind you think this is him being a good developer and not someone that shits up entire projects.
Devs like this are the ones that can sink entire projects on their own, resulting in all those 3/10 games you don't even remember.
This problems gets even worse if said dev is higher up the chain.
If you're incapable of communicating with your team and incapable of working together with your team, you have no place being in game dev. Divas have no place in game dev.
You only ignorantly think what they're doing is admirable because you haven't seen the kind of havoc they cause.
The best devs are the ones that produce quality in the allotted time and up to spec.
Yeah, sure. But they were still good despite being the heavily-cut-down-late-in-development versions. Obsidian caused themselves a lot more trouble than necessary by not cracking the whip on Avellone and telling him to rewrite his characters closer to spec before they decided to implement the scripting for all that dialogue in the game. Both sides were at fault, but one side compounded the error.
Thank you brother that's very flattering. Your image's very cool! You would likely appreciate Mordhau if you have not played it already.
>psychoanalyzing entire dev teams from the sidelines based on "vibes" and personal bias
based schizo.
If anything, the reason modern games are in decline is just late stage capitalism prioritizing profits over everything else, but I get the feeling implying that could possible be the case causes you to reflexively recoil in outrage. That and the shitty working conditions causing all the real talent to leave the industry in droves when they realize they can make twice as much doing 1/4 the work coding for some corporation.
>based
thank you bro- >schizo
I'm not israeli.
If you are referring to the Doom incident, the sound files were hard limited. Listen to the first Eternal trailer and the final release OST. A layman can hear the difference.
The musician said basically, "I can't talk about it" and Id's official statements are like, "we enjoyed working with him in the past and wish him the best in future endeavors; Moshe Feinberg is an excellent audio engineer who did nothing wrong we don't understand why the talented Ozzie musician argues with him".
>late state capitalism
commie gobbledyasiatic.
>profit
No
Blackrock and other investors fund videogame development, not game sales or even microtransactions.
>everyone quit because of bad working conditions
No.
Again teams are BIGGER than before. They have hired more people. But you can't replace Carmack with 3 Lily Sings.
I literally proved him wrong with several posts and he couldn't refute a single thing. In fact he gave up because he's an ignorant idiot.
You're free to try and refute me as well, example
He didn't nail anything. He got literally everything wrong. He has a vague and completely wrong idea of what a pipeline is.
Games are brainstormed by lead devs, directors, producer, etc. even before pre-production.
Prototypes are then typically built to test the harder problems of said ideas that were selected.
The game is then pitched to publisher(s) to see if they think it's viable and would stand out enough (note: this was true 40 years ago as it is now).
The game is then given more time to cook and typically enters pre-production. If the game is looking good and promising enough by the end of the agreed upon period (could be months/years) it enters full-production.
During full production time is set aside for brainstorming for more individual parts and go through a similar process, except on a smaller scale.
This is just at a macro level and doesn't account for any micro experimentation done by individual devs.
That post illustrated that he is wrong about there not being room for creativity anymore.
Now what do you want to be proven utterly wrong on? Say your piece and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
Thanks for confirming you're wrong andI am right. That's you're too mentally immature to even discuss something like an adult.
No skin off my back though if you want to wallow in ignorance and denial.
>ITT some troony dev is mad that a man hit on a woman one time. He's mad that people didn't reflexively take the side of opportunistic prostitutes and some people dared to take Avellone's side, or at least the side of reasonable doubt. He's now at post 36 or some shit spouting about pipelines and tedious internal details that no one cares about when we can all clearly see most AAAs have devolved into woke Jack Chick tier narrative tracts for the left and thus have stopped buying output of said pipelines because they're pouring out black aids gunk everywhere like a sewer line at an SF bathhouse
Can't see the forest for the trees huh? Many such cases.
I read enough of the scandal to give you the gist brother. >Chris breaks-up with asian prostitute >she declares rape >her friend lies with her >other prostitutes pile on >Chris lacks the backbone to defy them >still has feels for the asian prostitute
Try reading, even if literacy is a challenge for you.
This is about some anon claiming that Avellone is faultless in how he works and writes, how sticking to a pipeline or even having one is bad, how there exists no talent left in the industry except for Avellone (not even in tech), how he doesn't know anything about how game development works yet loves sharing his ignorance over and over.
Avellone is the shounen protagonist of reall ife, he'll come back and write the greatest RPG of all time once he's finished disposing of the vile moids
Anyone pretending modern gamedev practices are better than old ones are full of shit.
You have actual tards pushing webdev minimum viable product crap like agile in there now.
>Anyone pretending modern gamedev practices are better than old ones are full of shit.
Said the anon with complete and utter ignorance of both pipelines.
he's washed up and still a gay
He seems pretty content with just dicking around on twitter all day.
*dicking your mom all day
Even more homosexual than soiyer
Overhyped. Ravel and Kreia had great dialogue and he did well with Planescape. Rose was just a cowboy but a girl! Which any English Major catlady could write.
To his credit, I got the impression his colleagues at Obdisian were kneecapping him and their games suffered for it. They COMPLAINED about how much content he generated. That's like telling someone to work less.
impossible. No one's gayer than Soiyer. OWB > Dead Money > Lonesome Road > Honest Hearts.
>To his credit, I got the impression his colleagues at Obdisian were kneecapping him and their games suffered for it. They COMPLAINED about how much content he generated. That's like telling someone to work less.
That's not how it works in game dev.
Basic example, you have 8 party members that are supposed to have a personal side story spanning 5-6 quests and with text to match, since that's what is in budget.
If 1 writer then writes way more text and sets up a scenario that needs way more quests than that, like 10+, because they just do whatever the frick they want, they're not doing a good job and that's a problem. Because they can't scope and follow spec.
In this scenario it would most likely mean said person would have to re-write and shorten it to be in line with the other party members quests. This takes time and also hurts planning since people that were supposed to be working on the quests are now blocked by the writer going rogue. So they have to wait.
That's Avellone in a nutshell. Someone with too much ego and a terrible person to work with on a bigger project.
The Ulysses situation is a good example. And since NV was fully voice acted it was an even bigger problem. Avellone went way over his word budget, which would have cost god knows how much in additional voice work, and because it was too late in the process the character had to be shelved from the main game. The game suffered due to Avellone's rockstar attitude since Ulysses was meant to be the dedicated Legion sympathizer, and we just didn't get that due to him fricking it up. It's a notable hole in the companion roster and worsens the already skint legion playthrough. Very few artists don't have to play ball with editors and management and whatnot, guys like Thomas Pynchon get a break probably, but Avellone is no Pynchon and it was foolish for him to think the rules don't apply to him.
Techland also complained about this very issue regarding Chris Avellone’s involvement in Dying Light 2. The accusations against him were a convenient excuse to fire him from a game he was mismanaging the narrative of.
>I'm jealous of 50x writers
>I'm a woman who wants to leave at 5 every day.
>I'm a poo who doesn't give a shit about the final product anyway
From interviews, it dounded like he was being pushed out of the company over time, having less and less input, despite being one of the main selling points of Obsidian at its' founding
>from the writer of Planescape!
and responsible in large part for their first game's sucess.
I forget his name but some coworker b***hed on one of their projects Chris had wrote too much. He's like
>oh gawd I will have to stay and implement this!
and he was fighting with management to have control over what Chris could or couldn't do.
Every gamer would rather have hard-working devs whose games overflow with content, like The Sith Lords and FNV, then women and poos half-assing unfinished shit like Outer Worlds.
>women and poos
Holy mother of all incels
Yep, we got a cuckdex user here.
>pull out completely unrelated insults as if that helps you in any way, when it does the opposite
Clueless people might think that Avellone was the main selling point. But let me tell you, there is nothing that annoys game dev companies and game devs more than someone that can't work as a team, can't follow the pipeline and thinks they're the most important person on the team.
THAT is what could lead someone to have less and less input/responsibility and get less and less work.
If you consistently set several production groups back for the same self-important reasons, you're a liability to the project.
>Every gamer would rather have hard-working devs
You're so utterly clueless it's insane. Most devs are "hard working". Crunch is a thing for this very reason and many are passionate and do extra time on their own. Do you care? No, you don't. Instead in your ignorance you call most devs lazy.
People like Avellone can frick over entire game projects and cause a cascade of problems. They can actively make large chunks of games worse. Plus if their off-scope rogue work can't even be used, what's the benefit you bring?
The reality is that you're an ignorant Avellone fanboy that doesn't understand how game dev works.
No one in their right mind wants to work with some self-important and self-titled rockstar.
Those are some big words for a RPGMaker hobbyist homosexual. Go back to making smut spreadsheets, little b***h.
>Those are some big words for a RPGMaker hobbyist homosexual. Go back to making smut spreadsheets, little b***h.
I'm a senior game dev that has worked on and designed systems, combat, levels, narrative and even written for RPGs.
I'm currently not working on RPGs however.
Either way, you're out of your element and just decided to shitpost instead, so there is no point in wasting my time on you.
You settled on just shitposting, not discussion.
Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released.
If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years, yet you have 1 clown that keeps fricking up the entire pipeline, setting the game back, what do you do? Do tell.
Do you let them just keep doing whatever they want and hold up programming, art, voiceacting, sfx, designersm, etc?
It's not just that you're blocking them, but their works is ALSO getting pushed back since they have to later use the time intended for future work on getting the thing you held up done instead.
It's unironically people like Avellone that result in "unfinished" games.
No you're not. You're a stress casualty at best. Terrible LARP btw.
>presenting how dev pipeline works using real arguments
>avellone fanboys respond by crying and flinging insults and not a single argument
yes, riveting larp on your part. "i was only pretending to be moronic"
You will never be a woman and a game dev.
I don't want to be a woman and I am a game dev.
But you're in luck anon, your dream of growing up to become a manchild came true.
Says the troony play-pretending as a senior cucklord. You can suck my fat, throbbing, pipeline because I am rabbi Gabe Newell. How about that.
Avelltard is absolutely seething
>avelltard
That's sanism. Get cancelled, chud.
>Pipeline is how things are made and you need to follow a schedule so a game can even be released.
>If you have X budget and need to release a game by 3 years
Yeah, just like I said - cancer.
I know that contemporary gamedev is built on an industrial assembly line principle, and "that's how it works" - it's just that the way it works is exactly the reason why the modern gamedev is shit. It doesn't mean that development should consist of a nest of snowflakes doing whatever they like and getting their asses kissed for it, but the system of organization right now is definitely the main reason for why there are so few games and so many bland absolutely interchangable products developed by bland absolutely interchangeable teams so that they could sell for a specific amount of money.
It's like if I said
>- Fricking politicians lie and frick us over
andyou
>- Well that's how politics work.
Or
>- Fricking pyramid schemes scum people out!
>- That's how it works.
>- Bureaucracy is thoroughly corrupted.
>- That's how it works dawg!
Yeah no shit "that's how it works" - and it works like a dumpster fire. The only people who actually care that you can "deliver the product on time" are not the playe~ I mean CONSUMERS - as they can replace your product with almost any other product on the oversaturated market. No, the only people who actually care are your bosses' bosses. And they only care as far as they might have troubles replacing you in less than 3 days.
The industrial manufacture approach towards what is undeniably creative labour is pure unadulterated cancer built on feeding us processed fodder and telling us it is art, so that we would pay for new Assasins Creed like good cashcows. If you support it, I would tell you to kys but you probably think about it regularly already.
>The industrial manufacture approach towards what is undeniably creative labour is pure unadulterated cancer built on feeding us processed fodder and telling us it is art, so that we would pay for new Assasins Creed like good cashcows.
Utterly based, (You) earned this.
>title
>Gender Gap vs John Carmack (Oculus Connect Keynote)
Thank you brother.
Brother, I posit the derth of creativity is because our economy's centrally planned by a sterile people.
Consider when Germans were self-governing. They developed rockets, jets, the largest artillery piece in the world, the largest air tunnel in the world, the first interstate highway system in the world, and the atomic bomb.
They were so far ahead both the US/SR supped on their technology for the latter 20th century.
Now contrast with the current climate in the videogame industry and all industries. As Peter Thiel describes, investors spread risk evenly, mimicing whatever has been seen to work, with no balls to innovate. So you get an environment where it doesn't matter which company it is or what man's in charge: they're interchangeable.
They all look to one another and standardize their behavior instead of branching out.
This is an inevitable result of a command economy. If men who innovate aren't permitted to benefit from their innovations and the only form of upward mobility is a banker's approval expressed via investment and loans then everyone's filtered to conform to the nature of bankers.
What is their nature? Cowardly. Tepid. Lacking understanding or vision. So those same traits define the entire society.
Nietzsche proposed society should be organized to produce and raise men of the highest quality possible. There was a great man who implemented this ideal, providing men in his government absolute power to get shit done while demanding of them absolute responsibility.
It's the antithesis of a parliamentary system. Instead of diffusing responsability and risk, so no one's really to blame, as in a corporate structure, you concentrate it. Only the men with shoulders broad enough to bear the weight are worthy to serve in leadership roles. If a man requires a cloak of group-approval to cover his decisions then he's not a leader whether is job title says Chairman or President.
If this isn't some copypasta I missed then this is hilariously sad.
Your words are lost on the degenerate consoomer homosexuals plaguing this thread.
He's just regurgitating the old ignorant "gamer" spiel. None of those thoughts are his own, he's a parrot and a clueless one at that.
He was proven wrong and as the close-minded person he is, he just ignored it and kept going. In fact you're probably him samegayging trying to salvage that overblown ego.
I dislike Soiyer as a person and a dev. Honest Hearts wasted an entire dlc on noble pacifist savage bullshit. In real life, Americans noted their impressions of tribals: at war they slaughtered enemy tribes women and children, even killing babies. Concepts of quarter, mercy, ransom, and chivalry were unheard of.
Thank you for the support brothers.
pretty true. I don't think he's even a developer. The way he writes strikes me as the childlike submission to authority of a golem. In his mind, a word like
>pipelines
has an aura of authorative power. So he keeps using it as a totem in a vain attempt to dominate our minds, like a shaman shaking a stick above his head, and he's too stupid to understand why we're not impressed. Why it's not working. PIPELINES!
lol
*Hitler
you troll you know it damn right.
Duckmann and Levine =/= white.
>Duckmann and Levine =/= white
What race are the executives? The ones with actual power and not some pretentious washed up developers?
Neil Druckmann is an executive. He's co-president of Naughty Dog.
Oh God. Bringing up Nietzsche out of context in a video game discussion. Peak poltard pseud posturing
>society should be organized to produce and raise men of the highest quality possible. There was a great man who implemented this ideal, providing men in his government absolute power to get shit done while demanding of them absolute responsibility.
Stalin is one of the most inhumanely moronic people that set humanity and his own country back massively.
His own moronity and mental immaturity almost cost us things like the seed bank.
He's one of the worst and dumbest leaders is human history.
>Brother, I posit the derth of creativity is because our economy's centrally planned by a sterile people.
Based, we need to end White Privilege comrade.
> But let me tell you, there is nothing that annoys game dev companies and game devs more than someone that can't work as a team, can't follow the pipeline and thinks they're the most important person on the team.
"Pipeline" is cancer.
Why do you label Avellone as some sort of egomaniac?
He's difficult to work with on a team. That's why no one wants to bring him onto the team or quickly boot him and why he's mostly brought on by smaller indie devs that don't know him as a consultant.
This isn't because he's some genius that other pleb devs can't understand, it's that he frequently doesn't do what was agreed upon and it results in negative impact on the development.
Entirely baseless accusations that you're pulling out of your ass given the lack of sources quoted.
>consistent word of mouth, own admissions, statements made by people that worked with him and things you can infer due to the repetition
>entirely baseless
Meanwhile your idea of Avellone being gods gift to man and it's simply everyone else bringing him down isn't baseless at all.
So no citation? Nice narrative you're trying to pass.
Yeah sorry bro, I don't bookmark literally everything ever just in case I can pull it out when someone on Ganker demands tons of proof about anything I already know.
Going to such lengths for someone that means nothing to me (because it wouldn't be for my benefit, but the ignorant ones) is nonsensical. If you want to remain ignorant and do no legwork yourself then by all means. The responsibility of not being ignorant lies with you.
I have to play devil's advocate here. You should keep such sources on hand not for the benefit of the person you are arguing with, they will never learn. Instead you should keep sources on hand for the benefit of any outsiders looking in. It is them who will learn and not the aggressively ignorant person you are arguing with.
>You should keep such sources on hand not for the benefit of the person you are arguing with, they will never learn. Instead you should keep sources on hand for the benefit of any outsiders looking in
The amount of bookmarking that would need to be done would go beyond autistic, since it means literally any and all subjects that could be discussed needs to be bookmarked, managed and organized.
And all that for absolutely no benefit to yourself. Sounds great. Maybe you should do that then if you think that's such a great idea.
Then you shouldn't debate strangers here, without sources even a debate where you are in the right is just more shit posting on the turd pile. You would be indistinguishable from the average stormgay except that they would have infographs and Nietzsche quotes.
>Then you shouldn't debate strangers here
Using your faulty logic, no one here should discuss anything. Including you.
Honestly? They shouldn't, have you seen what happens when Gankerners discuss something?
Shit flies in all directions.
And you've done nothing to stop it even though you have the power to. You don't have to keep every source bookmarked and ready for the inevitable chan ignoramus. There's a reason the infograph genre really took off in this section of the Internet.
The smart thing to do would be to find common chan misconceptions, create an infograph debunking said misconceptions, then posting the graph onto r/Ganker where redditors are ready to do all the debating for you in your stead armed with knowledge you provided. I myself can admit to not knowing much about the industry other than rumours, you could change that you know.
You can't even cite one example and talk of ignorance with your grandstanding ITT. Oh, how irony can be funny.
One example of what? That Avellone writes too much and is involved in a lot of unfinished work?
In all honestly I don't care anymore if you want to suck Avellone's wiener and worship him as a perfect god. Maybe if you asked nicely instead of acting like a pirck you might've appealed to my good side to go through the effort. But you didn't.
Responding a couple of times during work downtime in one thread is incomparable to
>ALL articles, videos, VODS, forum posts, snippets or anything that can be deemed a source to anything ever should be bookmarked. potentially even saved/archived in case the sties dies or is taken down
>all of this needs to be organized into folders
>this process never ends and the bookmarks become a monstrous task of managing and updating, this process will go on for the rest of your life
>all for absolutely no personal benefit and the people on Ganker you try to discuss with should ignore it anyway
Oh yeah, you're totally right. Totally worth it and a comparable amount of effort.
Bark, bark, bark, that's all that little doggy can do.
Yesa, that's why I don't like trying to talk to dogs like you. Stick to sniffing poop and pissing on trees.
Your pathetic attempts at being snarky aside, the blame for KOTOR II is collective, it's not Avellone's. They said as much for that Eurogamer interview and your whole crusade against him is ill-informed and boils down to a malicious attack against his character. He also wasn't to blame for Planescape, nor is any one man to blame for anything in vidya, since like someone else said - it is collaborative creative work. Nowhere did I deify him, that's all you ad homineming me because you're so bent on being "in the right" that you don't care about The overall conversation, just about inflsting your ego and being a victor at online "debate", which is why you have a response premade for all of your posts here. A pitty, really.
>the blame for KOTOR II is collective, it's not Avellone's.
Avellone is consistently involed in projects where things tied to writing, quest content and otherwise is unfinished or messy.
Obviously there's no common thread here. Where him being heavily involved in the writing didn't affect the end product.
Can all blame be placed on him? No. But pretending that he is blameless is downright delusional.
Good thing nobody other than you is saying that. Which brings me to what I said there, you only care about your beef with Avellone, to which I can only say get help.
NTA but devs at Techland have said that Avellone kept delivering New Vegas quests after he was told to stop. Article is in Polish but it is here
https://polskigamedev.pl/dying-light-2-totalna-rozsypka-vs-tak-sie-robi-gry/
Aight, gonna read that. Thank you.
>nobody other than you
For being such a giga fan of Avellone you sure do know nothing about him. Maybe tone down your fanboyism and zealous defence of him, you won't be sucking his wiener anytime soon simply because you do it figuratively.
>Going to such lengths for someone that means nothing to me (because it wouldn't be for my benefit, but the ignorant ones) is nonsensical.
Like responding to every reply here?
Avellone's only big development flaw is that he writes too much. By his own admission, he blew past the word budget on Planescape Torment and had to get a lecture from Brian Fargo explaining the bad position he put Interplay in because of the unexpected added localization costs. He learned nothing from that experience given what happened with Ulysses on New Vegas and Durance and Grieving Mother on Pillars of Eternity. However, one of his strengths is that he's a quick writer. In the time it takes an average writer to write thousands of words, he's put in tens of thousands. All a narrative lead has to do is tell him "Good job, now kill your darlings and rewrite it to spec" but for some reason Gonzalez and Fenstermaker were too intimidated to actually say that to him even though Chris claims he would have been happy to rewrite those characters had the request been made. Avellone's worked with inXile and Owlcat multiple times before his cancellation so it's not like he's impossible to work with, you just have to know how to work with him.
>one of the main selling points of Obsidian at its' founding
No.
lying doesn't change the past salt machine.
>wrote most of Planescape: Torment
>Kreia's Ravel's b-side
no Avellone = no Planescape
no Avellone = no Sith Lords
no Avellone = no Obsidian
no Avellone = no FNV the best game
Renaissance Venetians are Italian you gaslighting historylet REDGUARD
>no Avellone = no Sith Lords
Feargus is the guy at Obsidian that gets the clients. No Feargus is no Sith Lords and no New Vegas.
yes he's needed too. He secured their first deal with Bioware. Chris Avellone was the main writer for The Sith Lords though to a lesser degree than Planescape.
Notice Soier gaining influence in the company and driving Chris out corresponds with its' downfall.
Avellone was pretty open that it was frustration over being micromanaged by Feargus that made him not want to be a lead at Obsidian anymore, didn't have anything to do with Sawyer, though he envied his ability to get Feargus to do what he wanted.
Josh Sawyer managing to office politics into directing New Vegas and not Avellone, one of the company partners, was some king shit.
That was really more timing. Aliens, Sawyer's project, was the one that was cancelled, not Alpha Protocol, and Avellone was stuck steering that ship. If it had been the other way around, Avellone would have got New Vegas.
Ultimately the problem with Ulysses and Durance/Grieving Mother is that Sawyer/Gonzalez and Sawyer/Fenstermaker didn't just immediately tell him "Frick you, rewrite this to spec." Instead it was a tepid "O-okay, we'll t-try to make this work" and it inevitably didn't, resulting in painful, late cuts instead of easy, early cuts.
judging by the last few titles he worked on he really shouldn't
Ever since he became a contractor he's both been around and irrelevant.
He should only come back if he writs full games instead, not just sidestories.
how the frick do you even get a writing job in the gaming industry?
Same as an art job. Have a portfolio and apply for a position.
College projects = Professional experience. Graduate school is pretty much just slave labor
Hey you could always cut your teeth on indie games 😉
Failing that, get a job as a tester and work your way up. I think that's what Avellone did.
Well, I could do that.
Any indie dev with a game idea that needs a story?
That's a 90s thing only. If you ever wanted to get.pissed read the career history of any of these old names
You forgot the ultimate doom this leads to
>You're too old to have such little experience/be working in such a low position. Why should I hire/promote you?
HR roasties ruin fricking everything
25 years ago? cronyism
nowadays? have dyed hair and a verified twitter account
Well, he’s halfway there then. Black person does nothing but post on Twitter all day.
>how the frick do you even get a writing job in the gaming industry?
Generally you don't get writing gigs as an entry position, unless you get lucky and find some small indie studio willing to do so.
When it comes to game dev, the most important part is being able to show off what you can do on a portfolio.
In game dev people don't really care about grades or anything like that.
For writing it might be easier to get in as a game designer and then while at studios push to be more involved in the narrative design and writing process.
Knowing how to write, knowing which projects could benefit from your writing and having a bit of luck always helps.
Hope he kills himself.
I'm surprised he hasn't already. I was expecting him to go full Alec Holowka during his big cancellation.
Nah that'd be the people who lied about him and are being sued in court as we speak.
Weird incel fantasy. Also nobody lied about him, there are pictures of him being creepy as frick.
>no one lied about him
Kek guess that's why your pornstar friends are losing in Californian courts of all places.
>nobody lied
The courts say otherwise
Sure, americans and american-dependents just need to get out of CRPGs again.
We might if Europeans could create something that isn't a pile of jank for once.
I fricking hope not.
Don't understand why this board hates this guy but worships sawyer. Of the two I'd say sawyer is far more intolerable on a personal level and his writing.
People hate on Sawyer too hard but worship the ground Avellone walks on.
Both are homosexuals nowadays.
Sawyerposting is an RPG Codex meme mocking him that was adopted unironically by offsite lefties from Reset Era who hate Avellone and think Sawyer is one of their guys.
If you ever see an unironic Sawyerpost you know it's from homosexuals who shouldn't be here.
Sawyer is more popular so simply more anons know him
>more popular
lol.
Sawyer is known solely by terminally online homosexuals on here and only because of the shilling memes.
Meanwhile people hired Avellone to be part of their high-end KS goals to advertise their Kickstarters because his name has that much brand value in CRPG circles among actual CRPG fans. (i.e. not drones who buy Owlcat/Larian to get their low-tier western dating VNs)
>because his name has that much brand value
Not anymore. And only the biggest of terminally online pseuds love the guy and his pretentious writing.
The biggest thing that Avellone has been part of in years is being on incel pickup lines
https://twitter.com/incelReplies/status/1539816102699704325
>I'll explain my 3rd wheeling exit strategy by licking your pussy
>You may have to listen very hard while your hands dig into the sides of my head and force me deep into your pussy
>random twittershit no one but twitthots care about
>vs
>being a huge selling point for a 900k KS
It's funny that you think the former matters to anyone but people like you.
a huge selling point for a 900k KS
That number means very little (since it's not actually "900k". It's a small increment of many KS goals and the actual sum he gets is small (because he does basically no work, he just comes on as a consultant to give some advice).
It's a small pin on a big board.
His biggest project in recent memory was on Dying Light 2, which he was booted from.
>the sum he gets
No one was talking about the money he personally makes but him being a major selling point of big kickstarters.
As far as his personal economy concerned he's admitted that he's pretty much set for early retirement if he wants to.
seems dubious considering how much he complained about obsidian trying to leverage his mother's medical bills against him to make him sign NDAs, but maybe dying light 2 just paid that much.
Not that dubious. His complaint was Feargus trying to screw him out of shit owed through that and other means, which I think was part of why he left but it's been a while since I read those posts.
I remember that he should have enough to live off his regular low-end lifestyle without having to work which is why he wasn't that worried about contracting work even before he was sabotaged.
Sawyerdrones have been shitposting here for a while
Both of these guys are massive narcissists, but at least Chris has actually made more than one good game
Most of the shit people like about New Vegas wasnt even done by Sawyer too lol, all the best DLCs were Avellone and most of the main game was Gonzales
>Most of the shit people like about New Vegas wasnt even done by
Anon, most things in games aren't done or responsible by 1 person.
Most of the things you enjoy about games and attribute to 1 person is actually done by people you know nothing about.
Contrarianism. People here will always root for the unpopular, creepy and fat frick.
I dislike Sawyer as a person, but like him as a developer. I like Chris as a person, but dislike him as a developer.
Sawyer I believe is a better all around RPG developer. On top of that, his writing is good. He created Joshua Graham, one of my favorite characters. Chris has created some of my favorite characters, but I hear he strikes out a lot because his shit is off the wall. Story is important to me if it's a heavy story driven game, but gameplay will always come first. Chris' work probably shines in something lore heavy or alien. Like, he'd probably do great writing for The Elder Scrolls.
>On top of that, his writing is good. He created Joshua Graham, one of my favorite characters.
t. don't actually know what good prose is & is 18 years old
>t. don't actually know what good prose is & is 18 years old
Oh, look, another posturing imbecile.
Joshua Graham was created by Avellone when he wrote the Van Buren bible.
Avellone's Graham was nothing like Sawyer's.
>I think it's worth noting that in even Van Buren's documents, a lot of the references to the Hanged Man's "evil" refers to past acts. In VB, he was seemingly a man without purpose. While his characterization by others and his tendency to laugh off/ignore attempts by others to control him could have been interesting, it really ended at "nasty guy who says and does creepy stuff and is a badass". There were specific instances (such as at New Canaan) where he would specifically avoid conflict and showed some additional depth, but he effectively had no character arc within the story.
>Personally, I think the "wow so crazy" type characters aren't particularly interesting or insightful because they only exist in pure fantasy and, as such, can't really be related to. I think it's important for characters who are influencing player opinions to be more-or-less human. If you can't put yourself in the character's shoes, it's hard to empathize with him or her.
Avellone writes wild crazy characters that only appear in fiction, Sawyer writes dull boring and plausible people.
Yeah nothing fantasy about wewuzzvenetians. Dull though i'll give you that.
He said plausible, not "can't be inserted into fiction".
Brainlets, I swear.
There's nothing even remotely plausible about african venetians amerilard.
There is no Africa or Italy in Pillars of Eternity. "Black people in this setting have this culture because I say they do" works.
But does it really? Eora is shit.
pithy response bro.
I forgot about that shit. That was a big part of why I hated PoE. I gave it a chance and the pozz was radioactive. Trying to immerse yourself in the setting was like trying to bathe in a tub full of AIDS blood.
>amerilard
Woah my guy, don't mistake our misfortune for Americans.
Short answer no.
Long answer even if he wins in court he will never be hired because there is too much of a stain on his image and he didn’t even sue all the women that accused him.
He sued both of the ones who made concrete claims and he's looking to win both.
The only thing keeping him from getting hired for projects is that the only studios that do hire americans have licensing agreements with extreme SJWs over at WotC.
>In fact I would respect him more if he raped a b***h.
You might need to seek professional help
Avelltards are brain damaged
He's fricking BACK after winning the lawsuit in a few months
He already said key figures in the industry will never believe him so he’s out unless he makes his own company.
Of course nobody would believe him. THere are pictures of him sexually harrassing female employees. He even owned them up and apologized for it, he's still a creep and super rapey. "Wahh i was wrong i'm sorry for sending you all those messages of what i would do to your bleeding front hole without your consent"
>THere are pictures of him sexually harrassing female employees. He even owned them up and apologized for it,
No there aren't and no he didn't. He sent a drunk cringe text to a woman who fricked James Deen on camera and apologized when he realized it was unwanted.
Funny how Sawyer is repeating Avellone's mistakes by simping for porn stars over text.
So we can expect a cancellation in the coming years?
Replying to leftist thots isn't sexual misconduct. Maybe if he sent them dick pics.
>Replying to leftist thots isn't sexual misconduct.
It is if they think they can squeeze some money out of you.
>Awkwardly trying to flirt while drunk outside of work = workplace sexual harassment
Also, the woman that he sent texts to isn't even the one accusing him of anything. It's other people, who never even met him and weren't around for the alleged harassment.
>THere are pictures of him sexually harrassing female employees.
Never happened moron incel
Except he admitted he sent those texts.
>months
That's incredibly optimistic. One case is stuck in appeals court and won't be resolved until 2023 at the earliest. The other one hasn't even had a chance to enter the appeals process yet.
Hi Carissa! I’m glad you’re not too tired from getting skullfricked in court from your bullshit accusations
Well he can live pretty comfortably with what he has earned on a modest budget, then just take up hobbies or indie titles. He might come back, but he's in a position where he might not need to. I imagine he'll make some indie shit some day.
That's not harassment and that's not a coworker.
what the frick
>avellone thread
>instead of discussing his games or avellone most posts are whining about sawyer
avellone fanboys have been broken
For some reason Sawyer keeps living rent free in their heads. They probably see him as some sort of arch-enemy to Avellone because he jokingly roasted him that one time.
>They probably see him as some sort of arch-enemy
They do. It’s very sad.
Meanwhile in reality for anyone bright enough to check archive.
>every Avellone thread has Sawyergays seething about him
>half of Sawyer threads are just thinly veiled whining about Avellone
Maybe it goes both ways. I don't get this rivalry, and never will.
I respect Avellone but the older I get, the more I realise that story and dialogue and writing is not that important in a game. Some tight dialogue and a well thought out plot is all you need. You don't need these grand narratives and clash of civilisation stuff that you have with things like democracy vs empire in Fallout: New Vegas. Although I really do love Caesar from F:NV, I think that could have been a series of novels rather than a game faction. I want cool systems in a game now.
>cool systems
Never seen any
in a single game ever?
In a single RPG ever. Take out the story and you've got a strategy game genre that's hopelessly limited by its conventions. Closest a RPG ever got to good mechanics design was DOS1 and even then by midgame you got so many skills and possibilities that murdering enemies on hardest difficulty was a boring formality.
Avellone didn’t write much in New Vegas except for Cass. All his work was used in the later DLC.
Oh so he is responsible for that absolute cryptic mess Ulysses? Frick him then lol.
Ulysses is his mouthpiece for Fallout, the same way Kreia is for Star Wars.
Kreia is cryptic but Ulysses is something else entirely, holy shit. I don't think it is a good idea to have a single mouthpiece in a series. Each character should really speak their own position and the message should shine through at the end. Having a semi-narrator is very ham fisted.
He wrote good stuff like Elijah and Cass.
Ulysses is less of an issue with writing and more one of design, no one wants to hear someone blather on non-stop as they try to play the game.
>dialogue isn't important
>Some tight dialogue and a well thought out plot is all you need
is this bait or are you really dumb enough to immediately contradict yourself
Irrelevant. Quit defending creepy rapey incels. It's pathetic. I can't wait for him, and for you, to have a nice day. Women will never want you, die already.
>incels
Christ you troons have really gone off the edge. Avellone is married.
>sawyer
literally 90% of posts about him are people who think he's some sort of counter to posts about avellone.
Everyone on the board has noticed how easy it is to trigger an avelone fan, forgive those that use sawyer to troll you so mercilessly.
>Avellone is married.
Then why is he sexually harrassing women
Women are property, as Allah wills it.
>I believe journalists
you're not from around here.
Chris broke-up with an asian bawd. She lied and said he abused her somehow to get back at him. Other bawds started backing her up and compounding her lies with lies of their own to smear him. Our misfortune promote such stories to destroy the last remaining vestiges of power peasants retain in our kibbutz.
Straight men deserve everything they get. I hope someone murders Chris Avellone.
Why do you guys dick ride this homosexual so hard? All of his writing is pretentious crap only teenagers think is deep.
>Why do you guys dick ride this homosexual so hard?
Because they're mentally immature. They like some projects he's worked on and become irrational fanboys. They then convince themselves that everything that wasn't good in things he was involved in wasn't his fault.
It's also never a good idea to attribute all that is good to 1 person, since game development is collaborative.
>muh game dev is collaborative
Fun fact, the PS:T team is on the record that Avellone wrote 85% of the game's dialogue.
Fun fact, games are still collaborative and consist of larger teams now.
If you have your writer write up that the player battles 100 different and compeltely unique dragons in terms of look, VO, attacks, etc. and they all have 10 individual quest chains that needs to be coded and all needs unique code support for each.
This is dumped on the ones working on quest design, programming, art, etc. right as they're about to start working on it and they were specced out in the pipeline to not even have 1/2 of this.
What exactly is the right call here? Who fricked up? Is game dev still not collaborative?
>muh quest chains
Oh wow implementing a fetch quest and the nth iteration of get ten wolf pelts. As if modern quest chains amounts to notable overhead.
No one cares if dogshit like the PoE devs has to work overtime to implement something mildly interesting for once in their lives.
>handwaving away heaps of time, resources and effort
yeah you know jack shit about game dev alright, a true "gamer".
because what avellone typically writes are copypasted fetch quests and nothing else.
I very much am, you however, are not. Which is a good thing. Since immature close-minded children are best kept out. This was your final (you) and you wasted your chance of learning of game dev. Nice job.
I'm replaying kotor 2 and I swear every time I play the game I pick up on something I never noticed before or find something new. In this playthrough I've seen 2 things I've never seen before.
>when you're doing the bounties on Telos and you're asking the dock workers for information, if you fail the persuade checks and have kreia with you she'll use force persuade to get the information for you
>when trying to break into the Czerka mainframe you can follow Corrun Falt home and threaten him in his own home, he'll call Czerka security and try to stall you out before they arrive (there's a Precognition of the security guys arriving to tip you off).
Honestly blows my mind, I've played both of these games over 20 times each and I'm still finding new shit.
I'm a homosexual when i use reasoning and facts and the other party only uses insult in a discussion. Clearly the problem lies with devs here. If only we had immature manchildren making games instead, I agree.
1. Bots tasked to reprogram you.
2. Raiders.
3. Shills.
4. Glowies.
>crunch makes us hard-working
nah. There are plenty of jobs with mandatory overtime, double-shifts, night shifts, etc.
When games were good they were passion projects for the men working on them and some would even sleep in the office some nights to add features to the game. Nowadays crunch is a vain effort to get the noodlecode of poos to stop crashing.
>the team
>the team
It's not individual vs team it's high standards vs low standards. Consider two scenarios
1. Everyone on the team does their utmost. They're working hard, striving, and each man looks to the man besides him and sees he's striving too. They're in the same fight together. As they get tired, this encourages them to not lose heart and keep at it. They'll get one more item off the wishlist in before asset-lock.
2. Just treat it like a who-gives-a-shit job. Oh my shift's done? See you guys later. I have lamaze with the girls.
Even a small team of highly skilled men working hard will outperform bloated teams of talentless make-work employees doing the least. This's why games take longer to make, have fewer features, and are less stable despite bigger (nonwhite nonmale) teams and budgets than ever before.
>Even a small team of highly skilled men working hard will outperform bloated teams of talentless make-work employees doing the least.
Looking Glass, old Bethesda, Ion Storm, id Software, old Blizzard. These names we'll make diamonds from their ashes, take them into battle with us.
LGS were masters of their craft who happened to be developing video games. Devs nowadays explicitly get into the industry they want to be there.
>masters of their craft
Carmack worked for Nasa as a hobby. He said solving videogame math problems was harder than rocket science.
despite their insulting portrayal of Greeks as black and gay, they do make mechanically solid and fun games.
But no, it's not, "biting off more than they can chew". Again these teams have
1. More personnel and
2. More time and
3. Bigger budgets
yet accomplish less by every metric.
This isn't an isolated example. It's a synecdoche of the entire industry. The people paid today to "develop games" CAN'T reproduce the software white men made 10+ years ago.
Don't pretend it's coincidence Japan has magnerails while other countries can't maintain roads foreign investors build for them.
>management
Look at Druckmann, Levine, or Bodarski. Their incompetence ruined projects and even destroyed companies. Yet men of their ilk keep getting hired and promoted DESPITE their failures.
On a more minor example of this same theme: lookup the controversy over Doom Eternal's OST and the "audio engineer" who ruined it. Id hired a Levine-type who doesn't know how to edit sound files as an "audio engineer", to help a musician who already mastered his own soundtrack sucessfully on Doom (so why would he need a new assistant?), when the two argued Id sided with their noskill makework employee over the man who made the soundtrack everyone loved, and when push come to shove they basically fired the talent, put-out a fricked-up batch of soundfiles mixed by their incompetent Levine, gagged the musician and said they wouldn't work with him again.
The problems with the videogame industry are indicative of much more fundamental, wider-reaching social ills poisoning the people's body.
>anon doing God's work of rubbing lurking wokoid devs noses in their failures
I salute your truthful savagery. Never let up on these clowns until their whole industry(ies) implode(s) and can be rebuilt.
thank you brother. What's the title of the video you linked?
>[pillpull intensifies]
Try telling the truth.
>This isn't an isolated example. It's a synecdoche of the entire industry. The people paid today to "develop games" CAN'T reproduce the software white men made 10+ years ago.
You don't even know 1% of modern game tech yet thinks it's a good idea to share your utterly clueless opinion. Then again, that's ignorant players for you.
>management
>Look at Druckmann, Levine, or Bodarski. Their incompetence ruined projects and even destroyed companies. Yet men of their ilk keep getting hired and promoted DESPITE their failures.
Nice confirmation bias and cherrypicking.
Game projects were BY FAR worse managed back in the day. An uncountable amount of games turned to shit because of atrocious management and even ones that didn't fail were atrociously managed. We're talking so poorly managed it forced pretty much all devs on the team to live at the office in 100% crunch mode for months, if not years.
In your mind, this is "good management".
You probably think that underpromising and underdelivering is good management as well.
>The problems with the videogame industry are indicative of much more fundamental, wider-reaching social ills poisoning the people's body.
There are many problems in game dev, but you're completely and utterly clueless of all of them, as you so perfectly demonstrated. Bravo.
But keep making these baseless assumptions. It's at the very least amusing.
>Game projects were BY FAR worse managed back in the day. An uncountable amount of games turned to shit because of atrocious management and even ones that didn't fail were atrociously managed. We're talking so poorly managed it forced pretty much all devs on the team to live at the office in 100% crunch mode for months, if not years.
From what I can tell, this is still the case for most studios. Look at Bioware, CD Projekt, what's going on with Obsidian's Avowed (but just Avowed, from what I can tell, their other projects are fine). A big difference is that it seems like it's no longer the case to reliably crunch your way into a good game.
Crunch is the case for studios is countries that don't care about workers rights or companies that are just straight up bad places to work in.
Bioware management infamously called the team crunching to try and save a game project for "Bioware Magic". They still did during Anthem's development.
To go back to another studio mentioned ITT, Supergiant for example is a stuido that doesn't crunch yet manages to release quality and well received games.
>Try telling the truth.
Try actually discussing something rationally instead of
>(oh shit, the person said something I can't counter, w-what do I do??? I-I know...!)
>"Try telling the truth"
>Yeah! T-that showed him! I can't counter anything he said but I called him a liar, I'm so smart!
>Again teams are BIGGER than before. They have hired more people. But you can't replace Carmack with 3 Lily Sings.
You think there aren't highly talented people know? Good know your knowledge of the industry isn't even surface level, it's just floating in the air, like the airhead you are. Completely and utterly clueless.
The fact is you don't give a single frick about the extremely taleneted people, especially tech ones, working in the industry right now. Partially because you don't know about anyone that doesn't get plastered on reddit or wherever you get your non-existant game info on, but also because whoever does the incredible tech in some games is someone you would care about even if you know.
You're also so controlled by your bias and emotions that you would ignore them based on game association.
Basic example, you don't give 2 fricks or even understand what the devs behind the tech of Last of Us 2 did. You look at this and think "Uuuh, I don't get any of that but that isn't anything special or difficult, I think"
GPU Driven Effects on LoU2
Technical Art of The LoU2
>GPU Driven Effects on LoU2
>WTH is this shit?
>layer with a shader applied onto it
>layers upon of minor textures
>a texture filter
Wow! It is almost like my cousin boasting that he was a master at photoshop and proceeding to use every filter available on his 2004 forum signature.
Also TLOU2
Thanks for proving literally everything I said correct. It's always nice to have a live example of the kind of idiots I'm talking about.
>Yeah, just like I said - cancer.
Alternative is what? Everyone does whatever the frick they want in a disorganized manner, causing people's tasks to get blocked, forcing incredible amounts of crunch, extreme amounts of unpolished content, production going over budget, etc?
I want specifics. How should game production function. Not vague "well you know... like the old days!" which is what I described above as happening.
Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation. In fact, good management and pipleline makes this even easier and safer to do.
>Alternative is what?
>I want specifics
I don't have to provide alternatives to say that the way things are done now is trash - it's not trash because it's worse than alternatives, it's trash because it doesn't give us what we want.
>Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation
It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership, while the environment conducts a natural selection on leadership to be allergic to originality and experimentation.
>I don't have to
1. You don't know how it's done know, as you demonstraterd.
2. You don't know what the problems are.
3. You don't know how to fix the problems.
Everything you said is either wrong, ignorant or useless.
>It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership
Factually incorrect, but you don't know what you're talking about (but still think it's a good idea to open your mouth).
You're literally just pulling shit from your ass with a made up understanding of how game development works from the same hole.
Let me put it simply, if you do not know what the pipeline is like, you do not know how it affects development. This is cold hard fact.
For example, let me give you an easy test. What does the pipeline for creating a new level in say a shooter look like (I say shooter, because it's less likely you'll frick it up).
Do this and I can correct you and tell you why you're wrong about literally everything about your understandings of "pipelines".
Assuming you want to learn that is.
>You don't know
>You don't know
>You don't know
>you do not know
Bruh that's four times in one post.
>Everything you said is either wrong, ignorant or useless.
>You're literally just pulling shit from your ass
Which exact parts of these 3 posts
are wrong or ignorant?
>are wrong or ignorant?
Literally everything. As I said. Absolutely everything and I'm not joking.
This is why to demonstrate this I asked you to do a simple task of explaining the straightforward pipeline of making a level for a shooter.
Because if you can't even get that right, why on earth would give you the idea you understand the pipeline of an entire game.
Now care to answer the simple question I posed you? Answering it correctly would help you.
>Literally everything.
Quote a line.
>Now care to answer the simple question I posed you? Answering it correctly would help you.
t literally wouldn't, as you can just keep going for more and more specific details until you get a "GOTCHA". This is the one and only purpose of your question.
>Quote a line.
Pick one yourself, doesn't matter to me since they're all wrong.
>This is the one and only purpose of your question.
The point is to actually demonstrate that you don't know what a game dev pipeline actually looks like instead of just saying "you're wrong". I was doing you a favor. If you prefer I can just keep telling you that you're wrong and not elaborating on why.
The main thing here is that you basically try to peddle the idea that creativity is stiffened in modern pipelines. That doing what Avellone does is a good thing. That blocking people, creating development debt, creating un-useable content, overscoping, etc. are all desirable things and for some illogical reason would result in a better game. Which it doesn't, but the exact opposite.
>>Also pipeline has no connection to originality or experimentation
>It does, at it limits originality and experimentation to the leadership, while the environment conducts a natural selection on leadership to be allergic to originality and experimentation.
Nailed it. Now compound this with leadership more often being israeli or a woman.
He didn't nail anything. He got literally everything wrong. He has a vague and completely wrong idea of what a pipeline is.
Games are brainstormed by lead devs, directors, producer, etc. even before pre-production.
Prototypes are then typically built to test the harder problems of said ideas that were selected.
The game is then pitched to publisher(s) to see if they think it's viable and would stand out enough (note: this was true 40 years ago as it is now).
The game is then given more time to cook and typically enters pre-production. If the game is looking good and promising enough by the end of the agreed upon period (could be months/years) it enters full-production.
During full production time is set aside for brainstorming for more individual parts and go through a similar process, except on a smaller scale.
This is just at a macro level and doesn't account for any micro experimentation done by individual devs.
>Games are brainstormed by lead devs, directors, producer, etc. even before pre-production.
How would the targets for said brainstorming be set?
>Prototypes are then typically built to test the harder problems of said ideas that were selected.
What defines the said problems?
>The game is then pitched to publisher(s) to see if they think it's viable and would stand out enough (note: this was true 40 years ago as it is now).
I never said that anything was perfect or even good 40 years ago. And on a more relevant note - how does the publisher evaluate the pitch?
> If the game is looking good and promising enough by the end of the agreed upon period
What determines whether the game "looks good and promising" by the end of pre-production?
>During full production time is set aside for brainstorming for more individual parts and go through a similar process
Brainstorming towards what?
>How would the targets for said brainstorming be set?
What targets? What are you on about?
Did you mean selling points, game pillars/player experience goals or...?
>What defines the said problems?
If they're identified as problems or not? Can be many things.
Doesn't align with what was agreed upon during the prior brainstorming/promise is usually the case.
Or to dumb it down: If you try to make a horror game and the game isn't remotely scary. If you try to make a game where using a main weapon as a fun action game yet you can't make it even remotely fun after 6 months of prototyping. If you find out that what you wanted to make is way overscoped for your team and budget and there'd be no way that you could make it. etc. etc. etc.
>And on a more relevant note - how does the publisher evaluate the pitch?
A gigantic topic in and of itself. If you want a decent and short summary
But it goes way beyond this.
>What determines whether the game "looks good and promising" by the end of pre-production?
See what I answered prior in this post.
>Brainstorming towards what?
Whatever needs to be brainstormed. What a level should be about, what players do in the level, how the level looks, how long the level should be, what abilities a character might have, what the animation for various attacks should look like, should the animation use root-motion or not, should attacks have warping or not, what timing and pacing should attacks have, what sort of quests should the game have, what sort of perks should characters have, etc.
Anything that needs to be brainstormed and then approved by leads and/or game directors/producers.
...and then you b***h about being evasive and demand specifics, huh?
You asked me vague things and want very specific answers?
Take teh first one for example
>How would the targets for said brainstorming be set?
What does this even mean? "Targets" is not a game development term, it's one you came up with. So how am I supposed to know what you meant?
I asked you to clarify and dropped some suggestions for things you might've meant.
Selling points should be easy enough, I shouldn't need to explain it.
Game Pillars are key things decided upon by the higher ups (typically director and leads) to align and focus the team.
For a horror game this can be things like "Should be scary", "Shouldn't be complicated to play", "Should have a deep story about the pain of loss", etc.
Player experience goals are similar to Pillars, but they focus on what the player's experience should be like. Both Pillars and experience goals are there to allow for micro developmer expression, but not result in the game is a confused shitshow. I.e. so the writer for your serious horor game understand that you don't want to have a bunch of fart jokes make up half of the game's dialogue, but you leave room for them to explore the heme of "deep story about pain of loss".
So now I ask again. What do you mean by "targets"? I can't give answers if I don't even know what you'e talking about. Stop me at any time if this doesn't make sense to you and that I should be able to mind-read you.
It's admirable that you're putting so much effort into this but it's going to waste. This site is for con artist to trick people with low social skills into buying into their schizophrenic point of view.
Meds, now.
>LoU2 is proof there's still talent!
This argues against your point. Despite some white and asian men remaining to make LoU2 LOOK good it's hated because the story's about a troony murdering a white man and lesbians murdering survivors.
Why is the story about a troony murdering a white man? Because Neil Druckmann is an Israeli israelite. The propaganda piece has players visit a synagoguge, where they can't desecrate stars of moloch, and characters praise israelites.
>it's hated
Lmao. Leave your bubble.
t. games journalist
>>LoU2 is proof there's still talent!
Learn to read. I said there are for example very talented tech people at Naughty Dog (since that other anon went on about Carmack which was a tech guy and an atrocious designer).
I brought up LoU2 as an example that people here would brush off even faster because it's LoU2 (i.e. they're irrational and biased, not judging the tech objectively).
The point is that claiming that there is no longer any talented devs left, especially in tech, is so insanely ignorant and wrong it's not even funny.
>I am a lying israelite
You know why everyone hates the game. It's no secret. It has been said here
> hated because the story's about a troony murdering a white man and lesbians murdering survivors.
>The propaganda piece has players visit a synagoguge, where they can't desecrate stars of moloch, and characters praise israelites.
and here
>sold so poorly it went on sell within the first month of release.
>The fact Druckmann was promoted instead of fired tells every man with a mind who the problem is.
>being illiterate
>spergs out about irrelevant shit
The game's narrative or w/e sucking is completely irrelevant to the point I made. But I can tell you just want to scream about how much you hate LoU2.
Until you go back and actually read and absord what I actually said, there is nothing more to say. Heck, you probably don't even understand this text I'm writing right now.
Reading is for betas, sigma males like me just invent enemies to fight and win against.
True, fr fr. Fax and logix.
>absord
I read what you wrote. I don't understand it. Can you explain it to me? Is an absord like a Power Ranger mech?
Yep, you got it.
>psychoanalyzing entire dev teams from the sidelines based on "vibes" and personal bias
based schizo.
If anything, the reason modern games are in decline is just late stage capitalism prioritizing profits over everything else, but I get the feeling implying that could possible be the case causes you to reflexively recoil in outrage. That and the shitty working conditions causing all the real talent to leave the industry in droves when they realize they can make twice as much doing 1/4 the work coding for some corporation.
Late stage go have a nice day you fricking idiot
You're right. Suggesting that corporations chase profit over anything else is silly. The real issue is we just don't have enough mega-big-brain-men that are team players that do a job only .01% of the population is capable of doing for peanuts.
Video game publishers were prioritizing profits over everything else since their inception. People invest in things because they want to make money. On the other hand, the barrier to entry to making and succeeding with indie games is lower than ever.
>we need to jam in as much diversity and homosexualry as possible
>because it sells
people like you still exist?
>we need to jam in as much diversity and homosexualry as possible
>because it sells
Yes. That is literally why they do it. Why else? Unless you believe modern game devs are some elders of zion conspiracy against straight white males.
White males are the ones buying these products. The self-hatred is extremely real.
>he doesn't know about the Urban market
Where they sell knockoff jordans out of vans or where you get that rock?
"Conspiracy" gives what leftists do way too much credit for having any direction. It's more of a cross section of low self esteem and easily emotionally manipulated incompetence.
It’s business 101, they have white gamer nerds completely locked in to what they are selling. Now they are trying to expand into untapped markets. That you think it’s leftist politics is both hilarious and sad.
>goyim will buy anything
no.
Lying israelite see
The israeliteess Hamburger Helper, imfamous for hating videogames yet being paid to write them, was so hated by gamers, who stopped buying Bioware products ~a decade ago, that the announcement of her inclusion in a Kickstarter game caused the backers to withdraw their funding resulting in its' cancellation.
Also see
LoU2 is universally lambasted, hated by everyone, and sold so poorly it went on sell within the first month of release.
The fact Druckmann was promoted instead of fired tells every man with a mind who the problem is.
>"Could it be that the entire gamedev process is masterfully, efficiently focused on something OTHER than actually making good games that people enjoy?"
>"No, it is the entire human race that went to shit worldwide in like 15 years"
>Even a small team of highly skilled men working hard will outperform bloated teams of talentless make-work employees doing the least. This's why games take longer to make, have fewer features, and are less stable despite bigger (nonwhite nonmale) teams and budgets than ever before.
I think in many ways this comes down to management knowing what's within their financial and manpower reach. Supergiant Games is probably THE best modern example of a team that knows what they're capable of.
Good management is key yes. But that good management also doesn't hire clows like Avellone that do whatever they want.
makes us hard-working
The game industry is one of the industries where it's very common to have people overwork and spend extra time because of their passion for games.
Thinking that this is uncommon is really telling for how little you know of the industry.
In places where there is no mandatory crunch it's even frowned upon to overwork for many reasons
>company can get into shit for it
>it makes planning much harder if someone sporadically produces content at a pace that doesn't align with work hours
>etc
Pleave leave your ignorance at the door if you want me to reply to you. There's nothing I hate more than stubborn ignorance. Claiming devs were only passionate in some made up timeframe in your head cements this.
>t's not individual vs team it's high standards vs low standards. Consider two scenarios
Oh god, please leave your baseless ignorant idea of how game dev works out of this thread.
Every person on the team is scheduled to work on specific tasks for months, if not an entire year in advance. This is so people have a realistic workload, become available to work on tasks when needed, etc.
i.e. when the level designer has concepted, pitched, prototyped, playtested and made the level (extremely condensed version of the process) it is then handed off to art.
The level designer was tasked with creating a level based on certain specs. If they however went rogue and made something completely out of spec, that isn't admirable. That's a flat out liability.
>designer made lots of pieces that would require way too much custom 3D/2D/VFX art
>amount of level that would need an art pass, lighting pass, etc is unmanageable for the art team
>etc
Either the designer is forced to redo the level, setting everyone back on the project (delaying other tasks or people later being tied up elsewhere) OR you do the stupid thing and try and make his rogue level work. This results in tons of crunch.
cont..
cont..
And in addition to the crunch it would STILL set everyone involved back. Considering the timeframe you might not even have the time or budget for this. You might have expected deadlines or tons of other things that can cause problems.
Now this designer keeps doing this shit CONSTANTLY and in your mind you think this is him being a good developer and not someone that shits up entire projects.
Devs like this are the ones that can sink entire projects on their own, resulting in all those 3/10 games you don't even remember.
This problems gets even worse if said dev is higher up the chain.
If you're incapable of communicating with your team and incapable of working together with your team, you have no place being in game dev. Divas have no place in game dev.
You only ignorantly think what they're doing is admirable because you haven't seen the kind of havoc they cause.
The best devs are the ones that produce quality in the allotted time and up to spec.
Stfu nerd, I'm a sigma male and all my extra work is amazing. Specs are for people with bad eyesight who "follow rules".
Yeah, sure. But they were still good despite being the heavily-cut-down-late-in-development versions. Obsidian caused themselves a lot more trouble than necessary by not cracking the whip on Avellone and telling him to rewrite his characters closer to spec before they decided to implement the scripting for all that dialogue in the game. Both sides were at fault, but one side compounded the error.
Thank you brother that's very flattering. Your image's very cool! You would likely appreciate Mordhau if you have not played it already.
>based
thank you bro-
>schizo
I'm not israeli.
If you are referring to the Doom incident, the sound files were hard limited. Listen to the first Eternal trailer and the final release OST. A layman can hear the difference.
The musician said basically, "I can't talk about it" and Id's official statements are like, "we enjoyed working with him in the past and wish him the best in future endeavors; Moshe Feinberg is an excellent audio engineer who did nothing wrong we don't understand why the talented Ozzie musician argues with him".
>late state capitalism
commie gobbledyasiatic.
>profit
No
Blackrock and other investors fund videogame development, not game sales or even microtransactions.
>everyone quit because of bad working conditions
No.
Again teams are BIGGER than before. They have hired more people. But you can't replace Carmack with 3 Lily Sings.
This long of a thread and nobody talks about Alpha Protocol, as if Chris only worked on two games in his life.
More like Failed Protocol amirite?
After he wins his libel trial, probably. He's still on staff for several games, they didn't all fire him
"on staff" is just him looking over their text and giving his opinion. He doesn't do any significant writing or narrative design.
What games?
kek crying and feeble avellone fans keep getting rekt in this thread
I literally proved him wrong with several posts and he couldn't refute a single thing. In fact he gave up because he's an ignorant idiot.
You're free to try and refute me as well, example
That post illustrated that he is wrong about there not being room for creativity anymore.
Now what do you want to be proven utterly wrong on? Say your piece and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
Thanks for confirming you're wrong andI am right. That's you're too mentally immature to even discuss something like an adult.
No skin off my back though if you want to wallow in ignorance and denial.
>ITT some troony dev is mad that a man hit on a woman one time. He's mad that people didn't reflexively take the side of opportunistic prostitutes and some people dared to take Avellone's side, or at least the side of reasonable doubt. He's now at post 36 or some shit spouting about pipelines and tedious internal details that no one cares about when we can all clearly see most AAAs have devolved into woke Jack Chick tier narrative tracts for the left and thus have stopped buying output of said pipelines because they're pouring out black aids gunk everywhere like a sewer line at an SF bathhouse
Can't see the forest for the trees huh? Many such cases.
I read enough of the scandal to give you the gist brother.
>Chris breaks-up with asian prostitute
>she declares rape
>her friend lies with her
>other prostitutes pile on
>Chris lacks the backbone to defy them
>still has feels for the asian prostitute
Try reading, even if literacy is a challenge for you.
This is about some anon claiming that Avellone is faultless in how he works and writes, how sticking to a pipeline or even having one is bad, how there exists no talent left in the industry except for Avellone (not even in tech), how he doesn't know anything about how game development works yet loves sharing his ignorance over and over.
Avellone is the shounen protagonist of reall ife, he'll come back and write the greatest RPG of all time once he's finished disposing of the vile moids
Anyone pretending modern gamedev practices are better than old ones are full of shit.
You have actual tards pushing webdev minimum viable product crap like agile in there now.
>Anyone pretending modern gamedev practices are better than old ones are full of shit.
Said the anon with complete and utter ignorance of both pipelines.
I hope not