Maybe subjective, but TQ looks a lot better, especially if you want to play a female character. GD looks like a mess most of the time and your character is always goofy looking.
ahahaha, yes very original joke anon. hilarious. you should seriously consider doing stand up or working for Saturday Night Live even. you'd definitely fit right in with all the other comics, I guarantee it
Haters gonna hate, but the beta totally exceeded my expectations and I'm sincerely looking forward to the real release. Blizzard are scumbags but I'm going to buy their shit anyway because I LIKED IT.
Why the frick does everyone who defends Diablo IV talk like this. Like I've never seen a post defending that game that didn't sound like it was written for a commercial filled with stock phrases and a suspiciously diplomatic choice in adverbs.
It's probably their new marketing campaign
remember the dragonflight ads where they posted legit criticism and their only stick was "YEAH BUT ITS GOOD, PLAY TODAY"
Why the frick does everyone who defends Diablo IV talk like this. Like I've never seen a post defending that game that didn't sound like it was written for a commercial filled with stock phrases and a suspiciously diplomatic choice in adverbs.
It's because most of the morons on Ganker are redditors, so they're accustomed to the fact that if you dont mention "blizzard = bad", you get the DOOWNVOOTS
playing on the easiest difficulty (normal) all monsters die in 1 attack and never pose any threat but some elite monsters and many bosses are super hard fights and will basicaly kill YOU in 1 attack
also the skill description for abilities is DOGSHIT lmao
some queer filled them with flavor text but never bothered to actually explain what they do
Veteran difficulty has gone up and down with different versions because they struggled to get it exactly right, and I don't know where exactly it is on the difficulty curve now, but it's intended to be a fun difficulty for a fresh lvl 1 character. Normal difficulty is the baby's first arpg difficulty and is a waste of your time if you have any experience at all with the genre.
ARPGs are designed so that you replay the story multiple times and constantly tweak the difficult so that you balance how quickly you clear enemies and how good the loot they drop is. It's not something you pick when you start and then leave until you beat the game, it's actively part of your toolkit as you progress.
As much as I dislike Diablo 3, it is baby's first ARPG and one I'd recommend to newbies.
If you like that, then do the rest like Diablo 2, PoE, and Grim Dawn. Just remember that for people look up build guides and other information for a reason in these games.
I put 94 hours into this game. The items + components are cool, the lore texts are pretty good.
But the game just looks really ...grim. Ugly and dull by design, makes it a bit unenjoyable. Like late 90's early 00's edgy but without the colour to contrast, there is colour but it doesn't make it any less grim. And the combat is quite dull, there's quite a few skill reskins and a lot of damage seems to come from procs off auto attacks. Also frick aetherials and "dont stand in this puddle" mechanics.
If I do get into it again I think I'll try a ranged shooty build as people seem to have fun with that. As much as I dont like diablo 3 I think it's a good entry for ARPG's, by the time you get to the dull endgame you can move onto a better game. Im looking forward to diablo IV as it had good combat.
Diablo 2 is unironically great for a starter.
Grim Yawn is okay, but they hit you really hard and early with number/gear bloat so it might turn people new to the genre away, but its very slow and easy to get into but doesn't provide much variety later.
Path of Exile is great, but the skill tree WILL filter newbies, even if you hand them a step by step guide on how to build it.
Torchlight is another game that could be a good stepping stone into the genre.
Diablo 2 probably works better as baby's first ARPG because pretty much every other game in the genre is influenced by it. Grim Dawn is fine if you follow a build guide for the first 20 or 30 levels. At least until you figure out how all the stats work and generally where you need to put points and why you need to have certain stats.
The attribute system is weird, you can't refund points and defensive ability is really important to not get nuked by monsters, so a lot of builds end up dumping like the first 60 points into physique, and the rest sort of depend on gear requirements. Like another person said, fights on normal are either piss easy, or you're getting blasted into the dirt in seconds. My first go through was a VIT conjurer which is pretty easy because you just blast your DoTs on stuff and kite while you heal. Could also try a pet build if you just want to be comfy and watch your dudes fight for you, but that might get boring. Builds can really make a big difference in how challenging or engaging your run is going to be, so you might want to check out a couple and see what you like.
Biggest complaint about Grim Dawn is that it's kind of ugly sometimes and a lot of the gear looks like shit until end game, and then a lot of the late game stuff is hit or miss. Some of it's cool, some of it looks like a bad WoW raid set.
Thanks for the advice lads. Is D2Resurrected worth it or should I stick to the original?
Resurrected had some censored stuff, but other than that I've heard it's technically better. I'll never touch it though after what they did to the amazon. The original works fine.
>original
definitely the best option to get into it given that it has heavy replayability despite its ages. give it a go >D2R
if youre playing D2R, you could chose between the remake or orignal just by pressing g, other than that, it looks good. people still seethe about how the characters look woke but dont let that phase you. just pick a different class if its too "troublesome" for you >https://opendiablo2.com/
go with this with if you just wanna play the game. recommended only after you beat a proper run of diablo though
Resurrected had some censored stuff, but other than that I've heard it's technically better. I'll never touch it though after what they did to the amazon. The original works fine.
>original
definitely the best option to get into it given that it has heavy replayability despite its ages. give it a go >D2R
if youre playing D2R, you could chose between the remake or orignal just by pressing g, other than that, it looks good. people still seethe about how the characters look woke but dont let that phase you. just pick a different class if its too "troublesome" for you >https://opendiablo2.com/
go with this with if you just wanna play the game. recommended only after you beat a proper run of diablo though
I think he literally means comfortable.
Click to move is such a horrid design and its my one biggest gripe with all arpgs.
Fun fact! Grim Dawn has controller support.
Another fun fact. Grim Dawn intentionally disables mouse input the moment it detects controller input.
I asked the devs if this was a bug and they said it was intentional because they think being able to move with a joystick and "click behind you" would be too overpowered, and unbalanced. In a single player game.
My seething is eternal.
>Another fun fact. Grim Dawn intentionally disables mouse input the moment it detects controller input.
What are you talking about? I remember very well using controller in combat, and using MKB for UI in general and activating buffs. It works flawlessly, unlike certain games where you have to restart the game if you want to switch between MKB and controller.
The actual controls are not good though, I had to set my custom control scheme via Steam Bug Picture - which was actually very comfortable to use.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Simultaneously in combat, once you let go of any controller input your mouse is re-enabled
>being able to move with a joystick and "click behind you"
What is this even supposed to do? Could you run and shoot?
Running in one directly, then clicking behind you to shoot beams/bolts/whatever even though almost every spell has some kind of cast animation/attack delay that would prevent it from being like a twin stick shooter anyway.
Devs are just moronic.
>Path of Exile is great, but the skill tree WILL filter newbies, even if you hand them a step by step guide on how to build it.
The thing i dont get about PoE guides is how youre expected to hit certain gear benchmarks at certain levels in a game where your loot isnt guaranteed
> youre expected to hit certain gear benchmarks at certain levels in a game where your loot isnt guaranteed
This isn't a thing for the acts, which I consider to basically be "the game" and anything beyond that like maps, labs, delve, whatever is just skinner boxing the lifers.
It's easy enough to stay geared to clear the story quest unless you're doing some really weird niche build like RF in which case you might have to start going into the hell that is the third party site for trading items.
Honestly if you make it through act 5 you're probably more than experienced enough to know if this is the kind of game/genre for you
Diablo 2 probably works better as baby's first ARPG because pretty much every other game in the genre is influenced by it. Grim Dawn is fine if you follow a build guide for the first 20 or 30 levels. At least until you figure out how all the stats work and generally where you need to put points and why you need to have certain stats.
The attribute system is weird, you can't refund points and defensive ability is really important to not get nuked by monsters, so a lot of builds end up dumping like the first 60 points into physique, and the rest sort of depend on gear requirements. Like another person said, fights on normal are either piss easy, or you're getting blasted into the dirt in seconds. My first go through was a VIT conjurer which is pretty easy because you just blast your DoTs on stuff and kite while you heal. Could also try a pet build if you just want to be comfy and watch your dudes fight for you, but that might get boring. Builds can really make a big difference in how challenging or engaging your run is going to be, so you might want to check out a couple and see what you like.
Biggest complaint about Grim Dawn is that it's kind of ugly sometimes and a lot of the gear looks like shit until end game, and then a lot of the late game stuff is hit or miss. Some of it's cool, some of it looks like a bad WoW raid set.
Diablo 2 is unironically great for a starter.
Grim Yawn is okay, but they hit you really hard and early with number/gear bloat so it might turn people new to the genre away, but its very slow and easy to get into but doesn't provide much variety later.
Path of Exile is great, but the skill tree WILL filter newbies, even if you hand them a step by step guide on how to build it.
Torchlight is another game that could be a good stepping stone into the genre.
Diablo II is not so good. Playing on Normal is great experience for a new player, but people kill Baal and put the game aside, they don't realize that beating on Normal doesn't count. Nightmare and Hell can legit filter people, it's 10 times harder than Grim Dawn for many builds, and without good luck truly beating the game is near impossible.
Is the game more enjoyable when it is that difficult? is It fair?
I switched to veteran halfway through GD and after about 10 minutes couldn't even tell the difference. Trash mobs are still piss easy, bosses and elite mobs can skill 2 shot you.
Did you really think that you would get away with investing zero points in defense? Like in most ARPGs, there are several layers of defense in Grim Dawn. Most obvious are +Health on items and Physique stat. Not so obvious are Devotion trees like Turtle which gives you damage shield when you are low health, and other devotions. There are attacks that can hardly be avoided, but some attacks you can kite or sidestep from.
How do I make a good pet build? I invested a bunch of points in the hellhound skill and all I got was 1 dog that does less damage than my autoattack.
You NEED +Pet bonus damage. Not many items have it from the start of the game, but many Devotion constellations have, such as Dog.
I put a total of 6 points into cunning/spirit before going full phys after reading 90% of builds should do that. It's not that fighting bosses is too hard, it's just that's stupid that there's nothing in between enemies so weak I could fight an infinite number without even looking at the screen and ultra danger instakill if you misstep bosses.
No. If you want someone to see how the genre is give them Diablo 3. Then give them two paths: min-max and brain dead. Min-max goes POE and brain dead goes Titan/Grimdawn/D2
Yes, it's fine
It's fun, it's got good depth but it introduces you to it slowly. Great levelling experience, fantastic setting/lore, very good character building and itemization, and it lets you play it all nice and slowly and learn about it as you go
It doesn't have the most longevity of the genre, but it's a fine choice
Decent drops are too infrequent. The interface is primitive. Grinding rep with factions takes FAR too long. I put 80 fricking hours into one character and didn't have enough rep to buy anything worthwhile from any faction.
Path of Exile. Which let's make it clear, isn't free to play and starts at a 30$ buy-in fee on sale and is literally the most autistic video game ever created short of maybe Dwarf Fortress.
But it is a working functional ARPG and you're already writing off literally the only two other real choices in the entire genre.
>Path of Exile. Which let's make it clear, isn't free to play and starts at a 30$ buy-in fee on sale
????
You can totally get through the early acts for free and if you make it to the point of "holy shit I really need storage" then you're probably hooked enough to buy in on stash tabs, which is only like $20 total for a bundle of the important shit if you catch a weekend sale.
That's what got my ass initially, played a month and nearly hit act 10 when I was considering making alt mules and then just said frick it.
30 bucks is like the actual mathematical floor for playing the game without tangible mechanical disadvantages. You're right that you can just go through acts free completely fine, but this isn't even a matter of "pay to keep up with the disgusting whales". Even if you're not autistically pushing the end game which is where more than 90% of the game's tools are locked behind, and again, not hyper autist stuff, we're talking just types of content and being able to do cool shit with your abilities, you're not getting by if you don't start spending money.
Even if you're an act player who doesn't give a shit about that 90% of the game you're missing, you're getting a diminished experience if you intend to play the game more than once without just fully resetting your account progression. 30 bucks is like, a third the price of D4 and about the same as Grim Dawn normally though? So it's not actually a terrible buy-in, but telling people they can get by for less really just means you haven't actually gotten into the game.
I'm talking about from the POV of a new player.
At BEST a currency tab will be your primary investment, but currencies mean jack shit for someone just starting. They don't even know what a fricking chaos orb is or why bulk alts/augs are important.
Your next goal is either a card or map tab, and whatever leftover a single premium tab is all you need to start generating currency from poe.trade
>been playing PoE since beta >only play current league >delete all characters after a league is over >never collect remove only tabs >haven't even touched normal league in forever >haven't spent a dime on the game >feels good man
People claiming you need the tabs are just addicted morons with no self control.
God I have so many remove only tabs in standard. It terrifies me
>been playing PoE since beta >only play current league >delete all characters after a league is over >never collect remove only tabs >haven't even touched normal league in forever >haven't spent a dime on the game >feels good man
People claiming you need the tabs are just addicted morons with no self control.
Grim Dawn is fine but the first playthrough is so fricking BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING
The interactivity between the two classes with the double class system is nonexistent in the initial playthrough, just dump points into a single skill and you will literally one shot everything but bosses. The mounds of loot are completely pointless as soon as you start getting your first blues and end up just cluttering the frick out of your screen at best or actively impeding your movement at worst, it seriously becomes a problem at a point.
Truth is, with how tightly balanced drops are, going in blind and larping as whatever you find on the ground is peak kino and what this game excels at, so yes. Started off as a thug with an axe, now moonlighting as a bullet wizard with a pistol and a shield with the same character. Can recommend.
Grim Dawn's really the best ARPG by a country mile if you want to play self-found and make your own builds. It's not really realistic anywhere else in the genre now, maybe not actually ever.
No, if you change skills you get set back to your minimum points for that skill, which at level 70 is something like 11/20
Refunding class skills only costs a little bit of gold as well
You know these homosexuals will see the graphics, cry, shit themselves, then ignore the fact that it is the best of all diablo likes distilled down to pure gameplay.
Rift-clearing with Ice Roll barb was only the second time in a video game I've found myself aiming with the minimap because the screen with unreadable.
As an ARPG hardcore fan since the 90s, I can confidently tell you, anon, that Diablo 2 is unequivocally the only game worth playing in this genre. If you have played Diablo 2 first and have fond memories of it, you may find the other games within the genre to be enjoyable and make you feel "at home". Otherwise, they may not be as appealing because they are all (without exaggeration) subpar compared to Diablo 2 (the original version).
What are the main differences between original D2 and D2R? I'm an oldgay and I played D1 and D2 back in the day, and I recently played D2R, but I don't remember the original well enough to compare.
As far as first runs go, I think it's still my favourite. It's got such a great aesthetic, I love all the different classes, the music, the setting, the whole vibe of the game. It gets boring as frick pretty fast now, but you compare it to something like Grim Dawn and you can tell Diablo 2 was a way more polished product for the time. Nothing that came after has come close to being as cool or memorable.
Chaosbane? It's pretty mediocre. Abilities are generic, in-game economy is anemic to the point most loot isn't worthwhile even as vendor trash, and it was clearly built for controller so it's weirdly sluggish to play MKB. If you've got a hardon for 40k I guess you could do worse but I got bored enough after 10 hours to quit mid-mission because there was nothing I was looking forward to doing.
Raven is great for dealing damage, and 2 ravens from the legendary set are absolutely incredible. But you need a tank pet as well.
On the other hand I can recommend Reap Spirit from Necromancy, those ghost deal very good damage and are unkillable. But you need at least +1 to that skill to summon two (or more) ghosts - one is not strong enough.
If we're talking about act 1, Blight Fiend with temporary duration transmuter can easily carry you with its own damage and on-death toxic puddle, but its early game supremacy doesn't last long.
Get pet resistances so they don't die in 5 seconds
Shuffle it around per act if you can't cover everything
Total speed for pets and damage buff auras are exponential boosts
>no need for teleportation scrolls >constitution makes it easy to go from encounter from encounter without the need to wait or chug hundreds of potions >you can completely make a build that focuses only on pasives and you won't need to press any skill to fight
Grim Dawn/Titan Quest are great because they are ARPGs that trim out the fat and makes the experience very smooth
>>you can completely make a build that focuses only on pasives and you won't need to press any skill to fight
I mean I had the opposite problem. It felt like the game really wanted you to pick one skill and absolutely pump everything into that. Everything about your build was getting that one skill to have as big numbers as possible.
Almost all my characters had pretty much completely filled skill bar, with buffs on a secondary skill bar. But you can get away with passive builds that spam one button.
Problem is cooldowns are non existent. Sure you can fill your skill bar, but you're rarely going to cast anything else because you can just hold your main skill and it basically becomes your auto attack except unlike your auto attack it actually does damage. I remember having the same thing with TQ actually.
so play a vit caster that uses storm totem, Ravenous earth and siphon souls. or a doombolt/sigil/BWC/thermite mines pyromancer. there's plenty of good builds out there that aren't just hold left click
Crate is completely bullshit Black person boss, not sure if it's mathematically possible to kill it with melee build and it dps checks ranged builds pretty hard. The only build I was able to kill it with was harbinger.
>not sure if it's mathematically possible to kill it with melee build
It is. Plenty of vids on people killing crate on melee characters. Not recently though since people usually use SR 75-76, crucible and ravager to measure builds rather than crate
whats so complex about capping your resistances and getting all the dr you can get for your element of choice?
in poes case, whats so complex to beelining to major nodes while grabbing some life nodes?
both games are a joke anyone whos red a summary of the mechanics in 10 minutes can grasp and start building
arpg is for brainlets which reflects in its gameplay which is total dogshit
i played this with a friend that was never into the genre on pandemic, i went with druid+shaman(?) and he stayed with...something that shoots a gun, he never bothered unlocking new abilities other than the "shot" and passive skills(and a "grenade" skill waaay later into the lategame for clearing ads when i changed to a shitty "pet build" to facetank bosses or elites), he didnt even bother getting a dual class and only ever changed gear when i told him to replace it, and of course he didnt even touch the constellation system until the lategame and he just picked random animals, he still had "fun on its on way" but the experience for each of us was totally different lmao, he tried D4 when i got access and actually liked it way better, and in retrospective, i should've just started him on D3 in the first place
GD as FIRST diabloid in your life? No, too complex after first difficulty. Stick with Torchlight or Fate series, that is what Torchlight was based upon. Would not recommend d1 because would be too hard to understand, why every monster pack fricks you.
Not d2 because too complex and unintuituve for beginner. Not d3 because always online and "builds" in the end come to "pick top set of the season". Not tq for same reason as gd. Not Sacred because it's even less intuitive.
Just play diablo 2, GD and titan quest both suffer from the same issue of its skill system being utter dog shit needing to spend skill points on stat boosting in order to unlock new skills that also cost skill points and need to be leveled up too. So you will spend dozens of hours with like 2 or 3 skills because you will waste like 75% of you skill points on stats and nothing else
whatever you do dont play diablo 2 and save you the frustration
the game is dated mechanically wise, only people still playing are mental blizzdrones who have been playing the same 3 builds theyve been playing for 20 years
they arent real humans and diablo 2 is not a real game compared to what arpgs habe to offer
All I remember from Titan Quest is an autistically convoluted build system, slow as molasses progression and mind-numbingly boring actual gameplay.
Is Grim Dawn better?
Yes, on most of these. Build complexity is still through the roof and it can take a long time for your build to really bear fruit because of the amount of knobs you need to turn to really get things going, but it's an improvement over Titan Quest in almost every way except for aesthetics. Faster progression, more leniency in respeccing and more flexibility in viable builds, more build lanes, and reasons to actually pick particular class combos rather than just having two different skill trees.
>Titan Quest >autistically convoluted build system
Lmao. TQ is very simplistic - you get to max pretty much everything you want in both threes by the endgame, and the game is easy enough to use whatever items you can find in your build. Toxeus is probably the only thing in the game that requres you to plan how exactly you're going to kill him (unless Spirit is one of your masteries).
Now Grim Dawn gives you a lot less skill points so you have to choose, has a huge Devotion system in addition to masteries, and most endgame builds require certain sets that modify your main skills.
As a necromancer using pets should I be using both skeletons and the blight fiend or just skeletons only and their passive skills? I'm playing as a soldier hybrid using two handed melee and forcewave as my main auto attack.
>skeletons
Skeletons suck, trust me. They are too squishy and will constantly die until you finally assemble your endgame build, and even then they're on a less reliable side of pet builds. >I'm playing as a soldier hybrid using two handed melee and forcewave as my main auto attack
Hybrids suck in this game, you have to choose between pets and fighting yourself. The best you can do is a tank who summons pets to do damage - I had a meme Death Knight focused on Reap Spirits once. It was pretty fun and felt fine on Ultimate, but much weaker that dedicated tanks or summoners.
Actually no, the best you can do is player-scaling pets, like Guardians of Empyrion in Oathkeeper, mortars in Demo, or totems in Shaman. Those pets scale from your own damage modifiers, instead of pet damage modifiers. Pet Dervish in particular is probably the easiest/fastest character I had on Veteran difficulty. And vitality Archon might be pretty good as well, it could use a farmable The Dark One set from Ultimate and have very good survivability.
>Is GD designed to drop loot thats for any class besides yours
no? it follows old school arpg rules. You might want to wait for D4 if you want that feature.
It has few semi-deterministic ways to get what you want, but yeah, you can get fricked by RNG. Worst thing is non-set purples, because there is bullshit amount of them and good luck finding correct one. I remember not seeing one particular thing I needed to finish my build for tens of hours, and ended up just farming most compatible MI with good affixes.
Titan Quest should be your first ARPG and your last
TQ is just prototype for GD.
GD does everything TQ does but better.
Unless you want to play without pants or something.
Maybe subjective, but TQ looks a lot better, especially if you want to play a female character. GD looks like a mess most of the time and your character is always goofy looking.
holy fricking homosexual
You should do down the PoE rabbit hole and come out the other side as a woman in another timeline.
titan quest is dogshit
dink smallwood is the best to start with
after that play poe
>dink smallwood
Holy FRICK
based
>BASED
based
>BASED
based
>BASED
listen to this guy
>excuse me sir, your daughter is eating our god
Based
i too enjoy that youtuber
Grim dawn? more like grim yawn
ahahaha, yes very original joke anon. hilarious. you should seriously consider doing stand up or working for Saturday Night Live even. you'd definitely fit right in with all the other comics, I guarantee it
The build variety might be a bit overwhelming at first but yeah it's a fun game.
Just play Diablo 4 in a few months why play these janky, date games.
good morning sir
is this some kind of meme that I'm like an Indian bot or something because I don't want to play Grim Yawn?
It's because you're shilling a blizzard game.
Haters gonna hate, but the beta totally exceeded my expectations and I'm sincerely looking forward to the real release. Blizzard are scumbags but I'm going to buy their shit anyway because I LIKED IT.
Why the frick does everyone who defends Diablo IV talk like this. Like I've never seen a post defending that game that didn't sound like it was written for a commercial filled with stock phrases and a suspiciously diplomatic choice in adverbs.
It's probably their new marketing campaign
remember the dragonflight ads where they posted legit criticism and their only stick was "YEAH BUT ITS GOOD, PLAY TODAY"
It's because most of the morons on Ganker are redditors, so they're accustomed to the fact that if you dont mention "blizzard = bad", you get the DOOWNVOOTS
game is super weird
playing on the easiest difficulty (normal) all monsters die in 1 attack and never pose any threat but some elite monsters and many bosses are super hard fights and will basicaly kill YOU in 1 attack
also the skill description for abilities is DOGSHIT lmao
some queer filled them with flavor text but never bothered to actually explain what they do
>not playing on veteran
normal is literal easy mode
Is the game more enjoyable when it is that difficult? is It fair?
it isn't a complete snorefest on the first run is what it is
Veteran difficulty has gone up and down with different versions because they struggled to get it exactly right, and I don't know where exactly it is on the difficulty curve now, but it's intended to be a fun difficulty for a fresh lvl 1 character. Normal difficulty is the baby's first arpg difficulty and is a waste of your time if you have any experience at all with the genre.
ARPGs are designed so that you replay the story multiple times and constantly tweak the difficult so that you balance how quickly you clear enemies and how good the loot they drop is. It's not something you pick when you start and then leave until you beat the game, it's actively part of your toolkit as you progress.
If any elite enemies or bosses are one-shotting you on normal, you're doing something seriously wrong.
I agree with you completely about the descriptions though. They're utterly fricking terrible.
sort your resistances out
As much as I dislike Diablo 3, it is baby's first ARPG and one I'd recommend to newbies.
If you like that, then do the rest like Diablo 2, PoE, and Grim Dawn. Just remember that for people look up build guides and other information for a reason in these games.
Torchlight 2 is the most beginner friendly dungeon crawler loot ARPG.
the "action" is left clicking monsters over and over and there is hardly any role playing. barely a game at all
This, just like Elden Ring where you only press the roll button to make any meaningful move.
>BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS TOTALLY DIFFERENT GAME HUH?
If you make an auto-attack build it's your own fault that it was boring.
It's a diablo-like they all play like that
i listen to audio books or if i played the game for awhile i can read text on my monitor when i play it
I put 94 hours into this game. The items + components are cool, the lore texts are pretty good.
But the game just looks really ...grim. Ugly and dull by design, makes it a bit unenjoyable. Like late 90's early 00's edgy but without the colour to contrast, there is colour but it doesn't make it any less grim. And the combat is quite dull, there's quite a few skill reskins and a lot of damage seems to come from procs off auto attacks. Also frick aetherials and "dont stand in this puddle" mechanics.
If I do get into it again I think I'll try a ranged shooty build as people seem to have fun with that. As much as I dont like diablo 3 I think it's a good entry for ARPG's, by the time you get to the dull endgame you can move onto a better game. Im looking forward to diablo IV as it had good combat.
Diablo 2 is unironically great for a starter.
Grim Yawn is okay, but they hit you really hard and early with number/gear bloat so it might turn people new to the genre away, but its very slow and easy to get into but doesn't provide much variety later.
Path of Exile is great, but the skill tree WILL filter newbies, even if you hand them a step by step guide on how to build it.
Torchlight is another game that could be a good stepping stone into the genre.
Thanks for the advice lads. Is D2Resurrected worth it or should I stick to the original?
Either one is fine, resurrected probably okay for someone new and doesn't want to deal with high res patches or other things.
Thanks guys. Genuinely really frickin' helpful
look at him. look at this poor man. its like a part of his soul got sucked out of him with every masterpiece he produced
YW anon. and dont forget EM MORF UOY EVAS NAC HTAED NEVE TON
Resurrected had some censored stuff, but other than that I've heard it's technically better. I'll never touch it though after what they did to the amazon. The original works fine.
>original
definitely the best option to get into it given that it has heavy replayability despite its ages. give it a go
>D2R
if youre playing D2R, you could chose between the remake or orignal just by pressing g, other than that, it looks good. people still seethe about how the characters look woke but dont let that phase you. just pick a different class if its too "troublesome" for you
>https://opendiablo2.com/
go with this with if you just wanna play the game. recommended only after you beat a proper run of diablo though
D2R is worth playing over the original for the controller support alone
Frick Diablo 2 is comfy with a controller
>Comfy
oh great. here we go again
I think he literally means comfortable.
Click to move is such a horrid design and its my one biggest gripe with all arpgs.
Fun fact! Grim Dawn has controller support.
Another fun fact. Grim Dawn intentionally disables mouse input the moment it detects controller input.
I asked the devs if this was a bug and they said it was intentional because they think being able to move with a joystick and "click behind you" would be too overpowered, and unbalanced. In a single player game.
My seething is eternal.
>being able to move with a joystick and "click behind you"
What is this even supposed to do? Could you run and shoot?
>Another fun fact. Grim Dawn intentionally disables mouse input the moment it detects controller input.
What are you talking about? I remember very well using controller in combat, and using MKB for UI in general and activating buffs. It works flawlessly, unlike certain games where you have to restart the game if you want to switch between MKB and controller.
The actual controls are not good though, I had to set my custom control scheme via Steam Bug Picture - which was actually very comfortable to use.
Simultaneously in combat, once you let go of any controller input your mouse is re-enabled
Running in one directly, then clicking behind you to shoot beams/bolts/whatever even though almost every spell has some kind of cast animation/attack delay that would prevent it from being like a twin stick shooter anyway.
Devs are just moronic.
Ressurected is a 1:1 remaster of the original and the artstyle is kept. Buy/pirate this.
The best entry into the genre is D2R or Torchlight 1 or Torchlight 2. PoE and Grim Dawn are for the more comfortable with hack'n'slash numbers.
>Path of Exile is great, but the skill tree WILL filter newbies, even if you hand them a step by step guide on how to build it.
The thing i dont get about PoE guides is how youre expected to hit certain gear benchmarks at certain levels in a game where your loot isnt guaranteed
> youre expected to hit certain gear benchmarks at certain levels in a game where your loot isnt guaranteed
This isn't a thing for the acts, which I consider to basically be "the game" and anything beyond that like maps, labs, delve, whatever is just skinner boxing the lifers.
It's easy enough to stay geared to clear the story quest unless you're doing some really weird niche build like RF in which case you might have to start going into the hell that is the third party site for trading items.
Honestly if you make it through act 5 you're probably more than experienced enough to know if this is the kind of game/genre for you
Diablo 2 probably works better as baby's first ARPG because pretty much every other game in the genre is influenced by it. Grim Dawn is fine if you follow a build guide for the first 20 or 30 levels. At least until you figure out how all the stats work and generally where you need to put points and why you need to have certain stats.
The attribute system is weird, you can't refund points and defensive ability is really important to not get nuked by monsters, so a lot of builds end up dumping like the first 60 points into physique, and the rest sort of depend on gear requirements. Like another person said, fights on normal are either piss easy, or you're getting blasted into the dirt in seconds. My first go through was a VIT conjurer which is pretty easy because you just blast your DoTs on stuff and kite while you heal. Could also try a pet build if you just want to be comfy and watch your dudes fight for you, but that might get boring. Builds can really make a big difference in how challenging or engaging your run is going to be, so you might want to check out a couple and see what you like.
Biggest complaint about Grim Dawn is that it's kind of ugly sometimes and a lot of the gear looks like shit until end game, and then a lot of the late game stuff is hit or miss. Some of it's cool, some of it looks like a bad WoW raid set.
Diablo II is not so good. Playing on Normal is great experience for a new player, but people kill Baal and put the game aside, they don't realize that beating on Normal doesn't count. Nightmare and Hell can legit filter people, it's 10 times harder than Grim Dawn for many builds, and without good luck truly beating the game is near impossible.
Veteran is not that hard
I switched to veteran halfway through GD and after about 10 minutes couldn't even tell the difference. Trash mobs are still piss easy, bosses and elite mobs can skill 2 shot you.
Did you really think that you would get away with investing zero points in defense? Like in most ARPGs, there are several layers of defense in Grim Dawn. Most obvious are +Health on items and Physique stat. Not so obvious are Devotion trees like Turtle which gives you damage shield when you are low health, and other devotions. There are attacks that can hardly be avoided, but some attacks you can kite or sidestep from.
You NEED +Pet bonus damage. Not many items have it from the start of the game, but many Devotion constellations have, such as Dog.
I put a total of 6 points into cunning/spirit before going full phys after reading 90% of builds should do that. It's not that fighting bosses is too hard, it's just that's stupid that there's nothing in between enemies so weak I could fight an infinite number without even looking at the screen and ultra danger instakill if you misstep bosses.
pick your poison
https://strawpoll.com/polls/wby5AjGmByA/results
No. If you want someone to see how the genre is give them Diablo 3. Then give them two paths: min-max and brain dead. Min-max goes POE and brain dead goes Titan/Grimdawn/D2
No it's a genuine snorefest.
For me it's diablo 1
That looks terrible. It's like someone tried to recreate Diablo 1 for people that hate Diablo 1.
>good choice for someone's first ARPG?
Not a single ARPG is.
Yes, it's fine
It's fun, it's got good depth but it introduces you to it slowly. Great levelling experience, fantastic setting/lore, very good character building and itemization, and it lets you play it all nice and slowly and learn about it as you go
It doesn't have the most longevity of the genre, but it's a fine choice
Decent drops are too infrequent. The interface is primitive. Grinding rep with factions takes FAR too long. I put 80 fricking hours into one character and didn't have enough rep to buy anything worthwhile from any faction.
How in the name of the frick you put 80 hours and not max a single faction? did you not use the bounty tables? are you actually moronic?
Grim Dawn bores the frick out of me and I'm not installing the blizzard launcher for Diablo, what are my options?
suicide
Path of Exile. Which let's make it clear, isn't free to play and starts at a 30$ buy-in fee on sale and is literally the most autistic video game ever created short of maybe Dwarf Fortress.
But it is a working functional ARPG and you're already writing off literally the only two other real choices in the entire genre.
>Path of Exile. Which let's make it clear, isn't free to play and starts at a 30$ buy-in fee on sale
????
You can totally get through the early acts for free and if you make it to the point of "holy shit I really need storage" then you're probably hooked enough to buy in on stash tabs, which is only like $20 total for a bundle of the important shit if you catch a weekend sale.
That's what got my ass initially, played a month and nearly hit act 10 when I was considering making alt mules and then just said frick it.
30 bucks is like the actual mathematical floor for playing the game without tangible mechanical disadvantages. You're right that you can just go through acts free completely fine, but this isn't even a matter of "pay to keep up with the disgusting whales". Even if you're not autistically pushing the end game which is where more than 90% of the game's tools are locked behind, and again, not hyper autist stuff, we're talking just types of content and being able to do cool shit with your abilities, you're not getting by if you don't start spending money.
Even if you're an act player who doesn't give a shit about that 90% of the game you're missing, you're getting a diminished experience if you intend to play the game more than once without just fully resetting your account progression. 30 bucks is like, a third the price of D4 and about the same as Grim Dawn normally though? So it's not actually a terrible buy-in, but telling people they can get by for less really just means you haven't actually gotten into the game.
I'm talking about from the POV of a new player.
At BEST a currency tab will be your primary investment, but currencies mean jack shit for someone just starting. They don't even know what a fricking chaos orb is or why bulk alts/augs are important.
Your next goal is either a card or map tab, and whatever leftover a single premium tab is all you need to start generating currency from poe.trade
God I have so many remove only tabs in standard. It terrifies me
>been playing PoE since beta
>only play current league
>delete all characters after a league is over
>never collect remove only tabs
>haven't even touched normal league in forever
>haven't spent a dime on the game
>feels good man
People claiming you need the tabs are just addicted morons with no self control.
PoE
LE
Take your ADHD meds and play grim dawn, or better yet don't and stick to vampire survivor games
Definitely suicide
Chronicon is pretty good despite looking like deep-fried ass
Titan Quest Anniversary, but it's kinda shit without SoulVizier mod, that genuinely the only reason to play.
Grim Dawn is fine but the first playthrough is so fricking BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING
The interactivity between the two classes with the double class system is nonexistent in the initial playthrough, just dump points into a single skill and you will literally one shot everything but bosses. The mounds of loot are completely pointless as soon as you start getting your first blues and end up just cluttering the frick out of your screen at best or actively impeding your movement at worst, it seriously becomes a problem at a point.
>it seriously becomes a problem at a point.
Just use the loot filter?
Truth is, with how tightly balanced drops are, going in blind and larping as whatever you find on the ground is peak kino and what this game excels at, so yes. Started off as a thug with an axe, now moonlighting as a bullet wizard with a pistol and a shield with the same character. Can recommend.
Grim Dawn's really the best ARPG by a country mile if you want to play self-found and make your own builds. It's not really realistic anywhere else in the genre now, maybe not actually ever.
It's also viable in Last Epoch you know
Don't skill changes reset your skill progression in Last Epoch? And then there's the whole issue of your class tree points too.
No, if you change skills you get set back to your minimum points for that skill, which at level 70 is something like 11/20
Refunding class skills only costs a little bit of gold as well
Last on skills level extremely fast you can go from 11 back to 20 in like a map or two
It is by far. It's a weird, out there kind of game. Very intricate, too.
Grim Dawn needs to let you be able to reset your attributes like you can for everything else.
You can with a potion.
yikes
>Shit game not mentioned
W0W!
You know these homosexuals will see the graphics, cry, shit themselves, then ignore the fact that it is the best of all diablo likes distilled down to pure gameplay.
>distilled down to pure gameplay.
So, it's just untextured cubes on the screen and the equipment is just black boxes with text?
Not quite but it does look like complete ass so not far off.
Rift-clearing with Ice Roll barb was only the second time in a video game I've found myself aiming with the minimap because the screen with unreadable.
New warhammer game I have not heard about?
As an ARPG hardcore fan since the 90s, I can confidently tell you, anon, that Diablo 2 is unequivocally the only game worth playing in this genre. If you have played Diablo 2 first and have fond memories of it, you may find the other games within the genre to be enjoyable and make you feel "at home". Otherwise, they may not be as appealing because they are all (without exaggeration) subpar compared to Diablo 2 (the original version).
What are the main differences between original D2 and D2R? I'm an oldgay and I played D1 and D2 back in the day, and I recently played D2R, but I don't remember the original well enough to compare.
I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone still holds Diablo 2 up.
Played it when they were 12 therefore it's the best game ever
As far as first runs go, I think it's still my favourite. It's got such a great aesthetic, I love all the different classes, the music, the setting, the whole vibe of the game. It gets boring as frick pretty fast now, but you compare it to something like Grim Dawn and you can tell Diablo 2 was a way more polished product for the time. Nothing that came after has come close to being as cool or memorable.
D2's music is fantastic and I didn't even remember how good it was until I played D2R just recently.
Speaking of ARPGs, anyone play that Warhammer Inquisitor game? Seems like people are pretty divided on whether it's good or not.
Chaosbane? It's pretty mediocre. Abilities are generic, in-game economy is anemic to the point most loot isn't worthwhile even as vendor trash, and it was clearly built for controller so it's weirdly sluggish to play MKB. If you've got a hardon for 40k I guess you could do worse but I got bored enough after 10 hours to quit mid-mission because there was nothing I was looking forward to doing.
Meant the 40k ARPG, Inquisitor- Martyr
Oh, my bad. No clue on that one.
How do I make a good pet build? I invested a bunch of points in the hellhound skill and all I got was 1 dog that does less damage than my autoattack.
Go necromancer and use skeletons.
Raven is great for dealing damage, and 2 ravens from the legendary set are absolutely incredible. But you need a tank pet as well.
On the other hand I can recommend Reap Spirit from Necromancy, those ghost deal very good damage and are unkillable. But you need at least +1 to that skill to summon two (or more) ghosts - one is not strong enough.
If we're talking about act 1, Blight Fiend with temporary duration transmuter can easily carry you with its own damage and on-death toxic puddle, but its early game supremacy doesn't last long.
Get pet resistances so they don't die in 5 seconds
Shuffle it around per act if you can't cover everything
Total speed for pets and damage buff auras are exponential boosts
>no need for teleportation scrolls
>constitution makes it easy to go from encounter from encounter without the need to wait or chug hundreds of potions
>you can completely make a build that focuses only on pasives and you won't need to press any skill to fight
Grim Dawn/Titan Quest are great because they are ARPGs that trim out the fat and makes the experience very smooth
>>you can completely make a build that focuses only on pasives and you won't need to press any skill to fight
I mean I had the opposite problem. It felt like the game really wanted you to pick one skill and absolutely pump everything into that. Everything about your build was getting that one skill to have as big numbers as possible.
Almost all my characters had pretty much completely filled skill bar, with buffs on a secondary skill bar. But you can get away with passive builds that spam one button.
Problem is cooldowns are non existent. Sure you can fill your skill bar, but you're rarely going to cast anything else because you can just hold your main skill and it basically becomes your auto attack except unlike your auto attack it actually does damage. I remember having the same thing with TQ actually.
so play a vit caster that uses storm totem, Ravenous earth and siphon souls. or a doombolt/sigil/BWC/thermite mines pyromancer. there's plenty of good builds out there that aren't just hold left click
More like Grim Yawn.
my current build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/8NKvR8EZ
killed mogrogen, lokarr and ravager but i havent been able to kill callagara or the box head boss in secret universe
Crate is completely bullshit Black person boss, not sure if it's mathematically possible to kill it with melee build and it dps checks ranged builds pretty hard. The only build I was able to kill it with was harbinger.
>not sure if it's mathematically possible to kill it with melee build
It is. Plenty of vids on people killing crate on melee characters. Not recently though since people usually use SR 75-76, crucible and ravager to measure builds rather than crate
Yeah it's a decent way to dip your toe in. It's really not that complex.
Grim Dawn is probably the second most complex ARPG after PoE.
In hindsight there really aren't that many very complicated ones.
whats so complex about capping your resistances and getting all the dr you can get for your element of choice?
in poes case, whats so complex to beelining to major nodes while grabbing some life nodes?
both games are a joke anyone whos red a summary of the mechanics in 10 minutes can grasp and start building
arpg is for brainlets which reflects in its gameplay which is total dogshit
i played this with a friend that was never into the genre on pandemic, i went with druid+shaman(?) and he stayed with...something that shoots a gun, he never bothered unlocking new abilities other than the "shot" and passive skills(and a "grenade" skill waaay later into the lategame for clearing ads when i changed to a shitty "pet build" to facetank bosses or elites), he didnt even bother getting a dual class and only ever changed gear when i told him to replace it, and of course he didnt even touch the constellation system until the lategame and he just picked random animals, he still had "fun on its on way" but the experience for each of us was totally different lmao, he tried D4 when i got access and actually liked it way better, and in retrospective, i should've just started him on D3 in the first place
Yep, GD is like the spiritual successor of D2. So play either that or GD.
The first Torchlight game is easy enough to get into
GD as FIRST diabloid in your life? No, too complex after first difficulty. Stick with Torchlight or Fate series, that is what Torchlight was based upon. Would not recommend d1 because would be too hard to understand, why every monster pack fricks you.
Not d2 because too complex and unintuituve for beginner. Not d3 because always online and "builds" in the end come to "pick top set of the season". Not tq for same reason as gd. Not Sacred because it's even less intuitive.
how the frick hasnt there been more ARPGS when diablo and grim dawn and poe show theres a market for it
It's a cursed genre. Almost all attempts end up being complete embarrassment.
there's plenty tho
last epoch got some rave reviews so i would try that grim yawn is too dated and honstly, not really good
also check out phatasy star portable, both games are good
Diablo 2 should be everyone's first ARPG.
If you don't like Diablo 2 you aren't allowed to play the rest of the genre.
shut up moron
diablo 2 is dogshit with its resistances and one skill spam
also dogshit build variety and melee gets fricked hard
Just play diablo 2, GD and titan quest both suffer from the same issue of its skill system being utter dog shit needing to spend skill points on stat boosting in order to unlock new skills that also cost skill points and need to be leveled up too. So you will spend dozens of hours with like 2 or 3 skills because you will waste like 75% of you skill points on stats and nothing else
Black person you have more wiggle room with your skills in those 3 hours than you will have in a whole normal run in Diablo 2
wow, you just described the entire diablo-clone genre. *tips sneedora*
anti diablo contrarians are so cringe
Grim Dawn has the best character building out of all arpgs anyone who tells you otherwise is simply lying. Great game.
Just play Diablo 2 your first ARPG like pretty much every fan of the genre.
whatever you do dont play diablo 2 and save you the frustration
the game is dated mechanically wise, only people still playing are mental blizzdrones who have been playing the same 3 builds theyve been playing for 20 years
they arent real humans and diablo 2 is not a real game compared to what arpgs habe to offer
All I remember from Titan Quest is an autistically convoluted build system, slow as molasses progression and mind-numbingly boring actual gameplay.
Is Grim Dawn better?
Yes, on most of these. Build complexity is still through the roof and it can take a long time for your build to really bear fruit because of the amount of knobs you need to turn to really get things going, but it's an improvement over Titan Quest in almost every way except for aesthetics. Faster progression, more leniency in respeccing and more flexibility in viable builds, more build lanes, and reasons to actually pick particular class combos rather than just having two different skill trees.
>Titan Quest
>autistically convoluted build system
Lmao. TQ is very simplistic - you get to max pretty much everything you want in both threes by the endgame, and the game is easy enough to use whatever items you can find in your build. Toxeus is probably the only thing in the game that requres you to plan how exactly you're going to kill him (unless Spirit is one of your masteries).
Now Grim Dawn gives you a lot less skill points so you have to choose, has a huge Devotion system in addition to masteries, and most endgame builds require certain sets that modify your main skills.
As a necromancer using pets should I be using both skeletons and the blight fiend or just skeletons only and their passive skills? I'm playing as a soldier hybrid using two handed melee and forcewave as my main auto attack.
You can get away with minimal points in blight fiend, it's just there to take aggro with its stank aura.
>skeletons
Skeletons suck, trust me. They are too squishy and will constantly die until you finally assemble your endgame build, and even then they're on a less reliable side of pet builds.
>I'm playing as a soldier hybrid using two handed melee and forcewave as my main auto attack
Hybrids suck in this game, you have to choose between pets and fighting yourself. The best you can do is a tank who summons pets to do damage - I had a meme Death Knight focused on Reap Spirits once. It was pretty fun and felt fine on Ultimate, but much weaker that dedicated tanks or summoners.
Actually no, the best you can do is player-scaling pets, like Guardians of Empyrion in Oathkeeper, mortars in Demo, or totems in Shaman. Those pets scale from your own damage modifiers, instead of pet damage modifiers. Pet Dervish in particular is probably the easiest/fastest character I had on Veteran difficulty. And vitality Archon might be pretty good as well, it could use a farmable The Dark One set from Ultimate and have very good survivability.
You're gonna want pets that scale on player bonuses to play like that
Like the reaper devotion, or the blood knight set at endgame
Is GD designed to drop loot thats for any class besides yours? cause holy shit I never get my class loot
>Is GD designed to drop loot thats for any class besides yours
no? it follows old school arpg rules. You might want to wait for D4 if you want that feature.
It has few semi-deterministic ways to get what you want, but yeah, you can get fricked by RNG. Worst thing is non-set purples, because there is bullshit amount of them and good luck finding correct one. I remember not seeing one particular thing I needed to finish my build for tens of hours, and ended up just farming most compatible MI with good affixes.