>Dreamcast discs were about the same capacity as GameCube discs, so no it wouldn't have.
Gamecube discs were 1.4x the size of Dreamcast GD-ROMs. They aren't super far off, but they were not "about the same." There's less difference between a GD-ROM and a normal CD-ROM than there is a GD-ROM and a Gamecube Mini DVD.
>mini dvd 1.4 GB >GD rom 1.1 GB
a GD is more close to a mini dvd then a CD. >but muhh pirate games
You know about ripping,is a technique to reduce quality of a game either by lowering resolution,using low quality movies,reducing bitrate all to fit in desired medium (in Dreamcast case a Cd).
That’s not what “ripping” is. “Ripping” is the simple act of copying the game files from physical media to a hard drive. That’s it.
Compression is what the Dreamcast pirates did after they ripped the game so they could fit under 800mb or so.
Ripping can also refer to removing FMVs and music for smaller download sizes. It used to be common for PC and PS1 games. I don't know if this was done on the Dreamcast, but resampling music and FMVs to take up less disc space isn't far off.
Am I the only one who can't get into this game? >levels too long and repetitive >those glitchy emerald special stages >team chaotix objectives >controls are nowhere near as tight as those of the adventure duology >bosses range from ok to awkward at worst
I got decently far into the game with each team but I always dropped it. Am I just too used to the Adventure games, is that a bad mindset to play this game with?
>is that a bad mindset to play this game with?
Yes. Even though the adventure games are 50000x better, in order to play heroes and get a modicum of enjoyment you just have to pretend those games don't exist.
I really tried to like Sonic Heroes, but then I kept falling into bottomless pits because of missing railings by 1 pixel or approaching speed boosters from angles that were 1 or 2 degrees off from the ones the developers had intended.
The issue with Heroes is that it lands into neither category you posted, so the physics are completely fricked and launch you all over the place at lightspeed while the levels are designed as if they are scripted and the devs know exactly where you will be going when hitting one setpiece bit and get sent to the next part that's meant to catch you, while not actually being so. So both of the problems that
I really tried to like Sonic Heroes, but then I kept falling into bottomless pits because of missing railings by 1 pixel or approaching speed boosters from angles that were 1 or 2 degrees off from the ones the developers had intended.
posted are glaring and will kill you often. Momentum control in the game is horrendous when playing as a Speed member since you instantly rocket all over the place with even the lightest adjustment, too.
Yes and at 60fps (not the laughable 30fps the PS2 could only just achieve). This started life on the Dreamcast and it was sonic adventure 3: heroes. When it went to Xbox and primarily gamecube, they turned it up to eleven, but the premise and concept was fine on dreamcast.
I've heard early demos were shown, the 'basic tutorial' level for I think team Amy was the level demoed and that 100% could run on dc in its final form on the other consoles. Seaside hill and the bingo level was also pretty much completed I believe, it's been nearly 2 decades since I had this conversation though. Saying that, the bingo highway level has NOTICIBLY simpler geometry so it's not hard to believe that was one they brought straight over from the dc without doing much to it.
The ps2 had trouble with the textures by the way, that's why it couldn't hit over 30 fps. They thought about porting the adventures but guess what, they'd have been 30fps so the plug was pulled. Sony execs were not amused at the prospect of Dreamcast games either running at half the framerate or having noticbly worse textures.
Haha oh really! You worked on the game? I'd love to know the development schedule you seem to be aware of between Adventure 2 finishing up and Heroes starting considering Heroes used a lot of stuff from the cutting room floor left over from Adventure 2.. Which I'm sure you're aware of, right.
Keep your nose out of things you have no knowledge about you mouthy little b***h. You have literally NO idea how much info I have from this era.
Sonic Heroes is known to have been developed over the course of 20 months. The review copies are dated to November 2003, which means development likely began in March 2002; well after the Dreamcast got discontinued.
Recycling from your existing pool of unused assets does not provide a hint of evidence that Sonic Heroes was at one point targeting the Dreamcast, as we might then conclude that Sonic Mania initially targeted the Mega Drive.
Sonic Heroes was to be the first multiplatform Sonic game, so Sonic Team built the game on RenderWare to allow for simple crossplatform development. It is absurd to imagine Sega humouring RenderWare for an in-house Dreamcast game even during the Dreamcast's shelf life, as the three RenderWare games on Dreamcast looked and ran terribly. The target platform for Sonic Heroes was the GameCube and its roughly 500Mhz CPU clock, so it is difficult to imagine the 200Mhz CPU of the Dreamcast handling the game at 60fps when the PS2's 300Mhz CPU struggled to maintain 30fps. Never mind that the Dreamcast had already ceased to exist by this point.
>as we might then conclude that Sonic Mania initially targeted the Mega Drive. That's honestly not a completely moronic theory like you make it sound. I could easily see them bringing up the possibility of releasing a Mega Drive/Genesis port of the game for shits and giggles.
>You have literally NO idea how much info I have from this era.
If you had literally anything, you would have posted it rather than throwing an infantile temper tantrum while screeching insults.
I was on Sonic CulT.
Keep YOUR nose out of things YOU have no knowledge about, YOU mouthy little b***h. YOU have literally NO idea about any info from this era. God fricking damn, how fricking moronic does a person need to be to roleplay this demonstrably, objectively wrong bullshit? Is this something to fabricated in your head as a child with your imaginary friend or something? Where the FRICK does level of autistic make-believe even fricking come from and why did you ever think of writing it out on the one fricking place that is going to not just call you out on your bullshit, but force-feed you to eat the fricking bullshit you fricking tried to serve. Frick you.
What the frick did you just fricking say about me, you little b***h? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the SEGA HQ and I've been involved in numerous secret sonic projects on the Dreamcast, and I have over 9000 rings. I am trained in Renderware programming and I'm the top playtester in the entire US division. You are nothing to me but just another gametester I will wipe you the frick out with style the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fricking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over teh Interwebz? Think again, fricker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of chris chan's in America and your ass is being coded right now so you better prepare for the storm, homosexual. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your ps2. You're fricking dead, kid. I can blast through with Sonic speed anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in seven ways, and that's just without the chaos emeralds. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of Miles Tails Prower and I will use him to his full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the planet you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fricking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit super sonic fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fricking dead, kiddo.
wasnt sonic team primarly focused on the gamecube? the sonic stuff was made multiplat because its their main franchise, but most of the ST stuff minus puyo fever 2 was made for gamecube from what i remember hearing.
Haha oh really! You worked on the game? I'd love to know the development schedule you seem to be aware of between Adventure 2 finishing up and Heroes starting considering Heroes used a lot of stuff from the cutting room floor left over from Adventure 2.. Which I'm sure you're aware of, right.
Keep your nose out of things you have no knowledge about you mouthy little b***h. You have literally NO idea how much info I have from this era.
>When you don't play along with the schizo's head canon
Just because you roleplay as a twelve year old on GameFAQs back in the early 2000s today, doesn't mean you were actually there back then.
Haha oh really! You worked on the game? I'd love to know the development schedule you seem to be aware of between Adventure 2 finishing up and Heroes starting considering Heroes used a lot of stuff from the cutting room floor left over from Adventure 2.. Which I'm sure you're aware of, right.
Keep your nose out of things you have no knowledge about you mouthy little b***h. You have literally NO idea how much info I have from this era.
these renders just scream autism. like sonic characters already look like autism normally but this looks like something youd see on the wall of a sped class. i think its the extremely saturated colors
They are hideous, and it bothered me how for over a decade afterwards most publications exclusively used that specific shitty render of Sonic every time they mentioned him despite all of the better renders that came from Shadow The Hedgehog, Unleashed, and even 06. It's where the term "Nike checkmark smirk" came from.
Its not even the renders. Something about the atmosphere of that game came across as abrasive to me. Everything moves so rigidly and without nuance and it feels like the presentation matches this vibe too.
Probably not. Its easy to forget that sonic runs signficantly faster in heroes than he did in sa2. The levels are siginficantly larger to make up for this and combined with more complex enemy ai and pathing for teammates and this would be a 15fps game on dreamcast.
I think as it sits right now, probably not. If it were specifically targeting Dreamcast, if they compressed the CGI cutscenes (or removed them), and had a lower draw distance, I imagine they could pull it off.
I've heard rumors that Sonic Team attempted to use the Sonic Adventure 2 engine but found that porting it to three different systems was difficult (especially considering the quality of the Adventure games' ports to GameCube) so they opted to create something new in Renderware. There was a lot of crunch making Heroes, and it really shows.
As I recall, Sonic Heroes was a "fresh start" for the new fans who had never played Sonic before, which is why it's so wildly different in tone to the Adventure games, but draws some elements from the classic games. Kind of a "back to the roots while also evolving" thing.
Anyway I don't care for anything besides the kickass soundtrack from this game anymore. It just controls so poorly to me.
Did the Dreamcast controller even have enough buttons for Heroes. >A and B would be jump and attack >X and Y would Switch characters >The stick would control Movement >The triggers would control the camera
Would they really have mapped Team Blast to the d-pad or would they have had a different control scheme for it entirely?
Regardless, First Person mode would've definitely been removed due to not having a second stick.
>Regardless, First Person mode would've definitely been removed due to not having a second stick.
I forgot Heroes even had a first person mode. What was the point of that?
>What was the point of that?
You could use it to view Amy and Cream's panties.
Rouge would also wink at you if you used it Team Dark, as if to indicate that she knows why you're in first person mode.
I mean, I did certainly use it for exactly that purpose with them on Big's shoulders, but it's still such a weird feature to implement in a game where you never actually need it.
I don't see why not.
It would probably need 2 discs and split up levels.
Dreamcast discs were about the same capacity as GameCube discs, so no it wouldn't have.
>Dreamcast discs were about the same capacity as GameCube discs, so no it wouldn't have.
Gamecube discs were 1.4x the size of Dreamcast GD-ROMs. They aren't super far off, but they were not "about the same." There's less difference between a GD-ROM and a normal CD-ROM than there is a GD-ROM and a Gamecube Mini DVD.
>mini dvd 1.4 GB
>GD rom 1.1 GB
a GD is more close to a mini dvd then a CD.
>but muhh pirate games
You know about ripping,is a technique to reduce quality of a game either by lowering resolution,using low quality movies,reducing bitrate all to fit in desired medium (in Dreamcast case a Cd).
That’s not what “ripping” is. “Ripping” is the simple act of copying the game files from physical media to a hard drive. That’s it.
Compression is what the Dreamcast pirates did after they ripped the game so they could fit under 800mb or so.
Ripping can also refer to removing FMVs and music for smaller download sizes. It used to be common for PC and PS1 games. I don't know if this was done on the Dreamcast, but resampling music and FMVs to take up less disc space isn't far off.
Team Sonic disk
Team Dark disk
it would have been GLORIOUS
homie, the game is exactly a gigabyte in size.
It would have been weight less with PVR textures
Probably. In fact, if they just cut the levels in two, so you played Final Fortress Act 1 and Act 2, it would have likely been a better game.
No because two mainline 3D Sonic games couldn't
Yeah I think it could
Am I the only one who can't get into this game?
>levels too long and repetitive
>those glitchy emerald special stages
>team chaotix objectives
>controls are nowhere near as tight as those of the adventure duology
>bosses range from ok to awkward at worst
I got decently far into the game with each team but I always dropped it. Am I just too used to the Adventure games, is that a bad mindset to play this game with?
>is that a bad mindset to play this game with?
Yes. Even though the adventure games are 50000x better, in order to play heroes and get a modicum of enjoyment you just have to pretend those games don't exist.
I really tried to like Sonic Heroes, but then I kept falling into bottomless pits because of missing railings by 1 pixel or approaching speed boosters from angles that were 1 or 2 degrees off from the ones the developers had intended.
Lern 2 physics or play Unleashedcolorations where everything is scripted
The issue with Heroes is that it lands into neither category you posted, so the physics are completely fricked and launch you all over the place at lightspeed while the levels are designed as if they are scripted and the devs know exactly where you will be going when hitting one setpiece bit and get sent to the next part that's meant to catch you, while not actually being so. So both of the problems that
posted are glaring and will kill you often. Momentum control in the game is horrendous when playing as a Speed member since you instantly rocket all over the place with even the lightest adjustment, too.
too long and repetitive
Wrong. The level length is perfectly fine. have a nice day idiot
glitchy emerald special stages
They're not glitchy, you're just bad at them and whining and b***hing about them like a toddler
>>>team chaotix objectives
They're good and a nice spin on the regular gameplay
are nowhere near as tight as those of the adventure duology
The controls are very tight, certainly tighter than your mom's loose hole, idiot
range from ok to awkward at worst
I'll maybe give you this, the team fights can be awkward, but the eggman boss fights are fine
Yes and at 60fps (not the laughable 30fps the PS2 could only just achieve). This started life on the Dreamcast and it was sonic adventure 3: heroes. When it went to Xbox and primarily gamecube, they turned it up to eleven, but the premise and concept was fine on dreamcast.
I've heard early demos were shown, the 'basic tutorial' level for I think team Amy was the level demoed and that 100% could run on dc in its final form on the other consoles. Seaside hill and the bingo level was also pretty much completed I believe, it's been nearly 2 decades since I had this conversation though. Saying that, the bingo highway level has NOTICIBLY simpler geometry so it's not hard to believe that was one they brought straight over from the dc without doing much to it.
The ps2 had trouble with the textures by the way, that's why it couldn't hit over 30 fps. They thought about porting the adventures but guess what, they'd have been 30fps so the plug was pulled. Sony execs were not amused at the prospect of Dreamcast games either running at half the framerate or having noticbly worse textures.
that's straight cap
This is all complete bullshit as development for Sonic Heroes didn't even begin until 2002, you fricking lying idiot.
Haha oh really! You worked on the game? I'd love to know the development schedule you seem to be aware of between Adventure 2 finishing up and Heroes starting considering Heroes used a lot of stuff from the cutting room floor left over from Adventure 2.. Which I'm sure you're aware of, right.
Keep your nose out of things you have no knowledge about you mouthy little b***h. You have literally NO idea how much info I have from this era.
Sonic Heroes is known to have been developed over the course of 20 months. The review copies are dated to November 2003, which means development likely began in March 2002; well after the Dreamcast got discontinued.
Recycling from your existing pool of unused assets does not provide a hint of evidence that Sonic Heroes was at one point targeting the Dreamcast, as we might then conclude that Sonic Mania initially targeted the Mega Drive.
Sonic Heroes was to be the first multiplatform Sonic game, so Sonic Team built the game on RenderWare to allow for simple crossplatform development. It is absurd to imagine Sega humouring RenderWare for an in-house Dreamcast game even during the Dreamcast's shelf life, as the three RenderWare games on Dreamcast looked and ran terribly. The target platform for Sonic Heroes was the GameCube and its roughly 500Mhz CPU clock, so it is difficult to imagine the 200Mhz CPU of the Dreamcast handling the game at 60fps when the PS2's 300Mhz CPU struggled to maintain 30fps. Never mind that the Dreamcast had already ceased to exist by this point.
>as we might then conclude that Sonic Mania initially targeted the Mega Drive.
That's honestly not a completely moronic theory like you make it sound. I could easily see them bringing up the possibility of releasing a Mega Drive/Genesis port of the game for shits and giggles.
I've never seen such an impotently distressed post before. Just stop typing out such moronic lies and people won't be mean to you anymore.
>You have literally NO idea how much info I have from this era.
If you had literally anything, you would have posted it rather than throwing an infantile temper tantrum while screeching insults.
I was on Sonic CulT.
Keep YOUR nose out of things YOU have no knowledge about, YOU mouthy little b***h. YOU have literally NO idea about any info from this era. God fricking damn, how fricking moronic does a person need to be to roleplay this demonstrably, objectively wrong bullshit? Is this something to fabricated in your head as a child with your imaginary friend or something? Where the FRICK does level of autistic make-believe even fricking come from and why did you ever think of writing it out on the one fricking place that is going to not just call you out on your bullshit, but force-feed you to eat the fricking bullshit you fricking tried to serve. Frick you.
What the frick did you just fricking say about me, you little b***h? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the SEGA HQ and I've been involved in numerous secret sonic projects on the Dreamcast, and I have over 9000 rings. I am trained in Renderware programming and I'm the top playtester in the entire US division. You are nothing to me but just another gametester I will wipe you the frick out with style the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fricking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over teh Interwebz? Think again, fricker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of chris chan's in America and your ass is being coded right now so you better prepare for the storm, homosexual. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your ps2. You're fricking dead, kid. I can blast through with Sonic speed anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in seven ways, and that's just without the chaos emeralds. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of Miles Tails Prower and I will use him to his full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the planet you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fricking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit super sonic fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fricking dead, kiddo.
wasnt sonic team primarly focused on the gamecube? the sonic stuff was made multiplat because its their main franchise, but most of the ST stuff minus puyo fever 2 was made for gamecube from what i remember hearing.
>When you don't play along with the schizo's head canon
Just because you roleplay as a twelve year old on GameFAQs back in the early 2000s today, doesn't mean you were actually there back then.
You are literally "that kid" who's "dad works at Nintendo".
The absolute state of this unsupervised child.
I believe you.
The more interesting question would be what would Dreamcast ports of Virtua Fighter 4 and Outrun 2 look like..
And the even BETTER question is what did Virtua Fighter 3 on the Saturn look like..
>what did Virtua Fighter 3 on the Saturn look like..
probably same shitty 2D backgrounds
You didn't hear about the 3d expansion hey
Not sure if the Dreamcast could handle the Renderware engine. In all likelihood, it would have had to have been conceived as a Dreamcast exclusive.
TrickStyle on Dreamcast used RenderWare
The PS2 barely handled it, I'd hate to see it run on a 200Mhz processor
This game has always given me the uncanny valley vibes. I owned it as a kid but I would always avoid playing it since it just really bothered me.
these renders just scream autism. like sonic characters already look like autism normally but this looks like something youd see on the wall of a sped class. i think its the extremely saturated colors
>like sonic characters already look like autism
what the frick does this even mean lmfao
https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/autism/why-do-autistic-people-like-sonic
>literal studies into this
>and a medically recognized term
i wish i could be normal
Vergil affirms that im autistic???
You avoided turning into an autistic furry, congrats
Heroes was my first 3D Sonic but even then I never liked those renders.
They are hideous, and it bothered me how for over a decade afterwards most publications exclusively used that specific shitty render of Sonic every time they mentioned him despite all of the better renders that came from Shadow The Hedgehog, Unleashed, and even 06. It's where the term "Nike checkmark smirk" came from.
Its not even the renders. Something about the atmosphere of that game came across as abrasive to me. Everything moves so rigidly and without nuance and it feels like the presentation matches this vibe too.
Me neither, they always looked cheap
Shadow's renders were much better in comparison
Probably not. Its easy to forget that sonic runs signficantly faster in heroes than he did in sa2. The levels are siginficantly larger to make up for this and combined with more complex enemy ai and pathing for teammates and this would be a 15fps game on dreamcast.
There aren't enough buttons.
I think as it sits right now, probably not. If it were specifically targeting Dreamcast, if they compressed the CGI cutscenes (or removed them), and had a lower draw distance, I imagine they could pull it off.
I've heard rumors that Sonic Team attempted to use the Sonic Adventure 2 engine but found that porting it to three different systems was difficult (especially considering the quality of the Adventure games' ports to GameCube) so they opted to create something new in Renderware. There was a lot of crunch making Heroes, and it really shows.
As I recall, Sonic Heroes was a "fresh start" for the new fans who had never played Sonic before, which is why it's so wildly different in tone to the Adventure games, but draws some elements from the classic games. Kind of a "back to the roots while also evolving" thing.
Anyway I don't care for anything besides the kickass soundtrack from this game anymore. It just controls so poorly to me.
Did the Dreamcast controller even have enough buttons for Heroes.
>A and B would be jump and attack
>X and Y would Switch characters
>The stick would control Movement
>The triggers would control the camera
Would they really have mapped Team Blast to the d-pad or would they have had a different control scheme for it entirely?
Regardless, First Person mode would've definitely been removed due to not having a second stick.
>Regardless, First Person mode would've definitely been removed due to not having a second stick.
I forgot Heroes even had a first person mode. What was the point of that?
>What was the point of that?
You could use it to view Amy and Cream's panties.
Rouge would also wink at you if you used it Team Dark, as if to indicate that she knows why you're in first person mode.
I mean, I did certainly use it for exactly that purpose with them on Big's shoulders, but it's still such a weird feature to implement in a game where you never actually need it.