Retail leveling fantasy isn't anywhere near the survival theme "learn to cook; make food; get arrows; tame a pet".
It's been 17 years; is 60 hours of leveling even logical for either iteration? It's completely replaceable, which would actually have areas, materials, professions, and characters relevant.
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oh my god frick off nutriments Black person.
What do you want?
>Human
>Paladin
>Male
>White
>Blonde hair
>Blue eyes
I had more than 600 days of /played time and no significant time on any alts. I just connected with that character for something like 12 years.
Zero regrets.
MMOs and video games in general aren't logical
All things are possible.
Did they copy elden rings caelid
Leveling through old wow is just overpoweringly soulful
Eh, classic WoW felt like a fisher price game made for moronic children. Leveling in EQ in 99 was true soul.
>game called Everquest
>you actually rarely quest and just mindlessly grind for hours
It was kinda neat, you actually had to explore and interact with npcs in order to find quests in the first place - but more importantly, you had a choice. Funnily enough, WoW forced you to "mindlessly grind" quests, which are like 75% kill quests, by running and grabbing all of the floating exclamation marks before you start.
changing mmos into quest focused leveling was a mistake
It was and it was beautiful. Now its filled with gold buying. Stopped caring after that. Why grind if people assume you boosted or gold buy.
EQ was of its age. There is a reason it got crushed. Needlessly extended gameplay and lack of exploration from gear fear killed it. But for its te ot had appealing qualities. Wow just did everything better.
It got crushed because Blizzard took the formula and watered it down for the masses, such is capitalism.
When I tried Wow in battle for Azeroth that was the most soul crushing part for me. Pretty much all old content up to wrath emanated with the spirit of fun and leveling trough it alone felt like walking on the ruins of an ancient civilization that used to be great but now has fallen into ruin. God I wish I could've played it on release
Imagine trying so hard to fit in you dick suck hellfire peninsula
I just enjoyed that part of leveling you Black person, not my fricking fault they fricked it up later on
>I'm just an npc who copies whatever opinion seems popular
Didn't ask
L U D O
No.
Also no. Frick leveling in both of those games.
I'd probably feel the same way if I didn't get to experience in back then, it was a magical experience and it makes me sad that people missed out.
I did experience it back then and I fricking hated it. I experienced EQ when it was new too.
>I experienced EQ when it was new too.
I feel nothing but pity for you, youngin'
You have ADHD and are moronic, stay away from rpg’s thanks.
No, you have autism.
>"Leveling = RPG."
You're not going to get varied and deep roleplaying and worldbuilding ("amounts of activities that lead to status") by linearity.
A lack of tolerance for deliberate timewasting and low quality gameplay meant to addict players is not ADHD.
???
I personally am a literal moron with adhd and i LOVE leveling lmao
>Leveling in classic was the shit!
Everyone kept saying that, then the classic came and everyone just zoomed the leveling, spamming dungeons and looking up the fastest routes.
The problem was layering; what's the motivation to play when characters are going to disappear, mediocre gameplay?
>everyone
nice projection
Admittedly, chat was fricking filled with people looking for cleave groups, but me and my lads did it the questing way which is a fast superior experience - especially with the occasional PvP here and there. We only went to dungeons to finish quests and shit was great while it lasted
Guild Wars 2 is the closest that came to fixing this problem. You should get exclusive rewards for levelling and mastering a certain area. It adds insane replayability and reason to go back and level in lower zones, especially with the scaling system that makes some of the elite enemies a fun challenge for higher level players, while being a real challenge for lower level players.
that's because of the pserver minmax autists not the game itself.
It's pretty much the most soulless pile of shit ever made. I remember when it came out, and I couldn't fathom how bad it looked, and how awful the gameplay was.
People only remember it fondly because they were moronic kids, and feel nostalgic for it, or because they have autism and can't tell soul from history's most commercialized, soulless product.
I enjoyed the gameplay and the graphics where better than RuneScape, and overall it was an utterly massive game. Still would replay today, I'm glad my cynicism hasn't made me outright hate classic wow.
Up until 40 - 45. After that it's a clusterfrick
I found people become less laid back as they near 60. Really weird.
Old Azeroth was great how you could go to badlands, or hinterlands, or winterspring and feel like you were stuck there. Back before flying 600% speed mounts, 50 different free teleports and five hearthstones existed. That was a nice thing about old MMOs. The feeling of having invested time traveling to a faraway location.
This is one of the few criticisms from vanilla gays I agree with. Flying was a mistake.
Problem is, they tried to make it tougher back in Legion and people b***hed and moaned to death about how inconvenient it was. So again, it's not Blizzard's fault, it's the moronic players.
Really glad they made this zone contested for some reason, really fun killing level 10s with a single moonfire as a feral.
>old wow
>posts a redridge with a fixed bridge
zoomer kys
Lvling thru wow classic was relaxing as frick. It's not the same when it's easy to lvl. Having to go out for hours long adventures, then return to town and spend an hour selling shit, making stuff to sell on the ah, or just selling materials, and getting all the reagents for your different abilities just to prep for the next outing made it feel like a real adventure. Retail wow lost that feeling a long time ago.
>current year
>every raid is standardized to ~12 boss fights, if that
>no sprawling raids with 30+ bosses with a range of difficulty who drop upgrades and sidegrades across a variety of playstyles
MMOs are a wasted potential.
>30+ options to drop items.
Your critique is still hinging on removing items from the economy because that's where sidegrades and power are most.
Instanced raids were a mistake.
MMOs died when you could no long steal bosses from people not as hardcore as you
the leveling process should be longer, endgame Black folk ruined it.
No.
go play osrs if you want that.
I want to like RS, but I would rather PvP in WoW, grind in ARK, or learn a hobby that earns money.
yeh if you want pvp then rs is not the game lol
one day mmos will return to player freedom where the journey is what matters and not the endgame.
Player freedom involves the freedom to tunnel through or skip shitty leveling and be done
You wouldn't feel this way if leveling was good.
My idea of good leveling looks nothing like yours.
Leveling is numbers; it's arbitrary.
>level up
>Now if you aggro 2 mobs you are almost dead
Love that game where level up = becoming weaker
mmos were doomed the moment they created endgame threadmill instead of focusing on fun repetitive gameplay. Grear threadmill design always degrades into chore simulators
>endgame threadmill instead of focusing on fun repetitive gameplay
What are you critiquing?
well I dont believe the main motivation for people to keep playing should be endless numbers increase. I think gear threadmill philosophy is the main cause behind homogenisation and streamlining of content
Are WoW bosses even capable of providing challenge if players have varied playstyles from equipment?
Vertical progression is gay and kills content
Horizontal progression is the future
Take the Guild Wars 2 pill and learn the error of the industry's ways.
gw2 is fricking shit though
In vertical progression you have reason to do some of the content
In horizontal there is no reason to do anything
>there is no reason to do anything
The reason to do the content is because it's available and for the experience. Not the in game XP that you get to level your character, I'm talking about the actual real yous experience running through the bosses or whatever.
homosexuals like you that need a never ending carrot on a stick to chase in the form of a gear treadmill utterly ruined the genre right when it was leaving it's infancy, and have forever hobbled what could have been the greatest genre to exist as a result.
>homosexuals like you that need a never ending carrot on a stick to chase in the form of a gear treadmill utterly ruined the genre right when it was leaving it's infancy, and have forever hobbled what could have been the greatest genre to exist as a result.
poopsocking raiders are better served with ARPGs and dungeon crawlers. MMORPGs should be about being a virtual medium for DnD and player story telling. (No this does not mean having a main questline the devs made for you)
D&D is a vertical progression game
Barely.
Bullshit, shut the frick up about something you know nothing about.
D&D is a story telling medium. Gear progression is an afterthought.
You have no idea what the frick you're talking about.
I'm sorry the big numbers rotted your brain.
Leveling up and getting gear is probably not even in the top 5 of what D&D is about. If you think it is, you're probably a boring person.
Eh he's not really wrong when he says GEAR progression is an afterthought.
Character progression via feats/skills/new spells is where most of the progression comes from in DND. Every now and then you'll pick up a new tier of weapon/armor and add 1 more to your rolls and maybe once or twice a campaign you'll come across a magic item with some neat bonus property like slightly more damage in a number of different types.
You are talking about an entirely different edition of D&D that has very little to do with the D&D that inspired EQ and WoW. D&D did not start as a storytelling simulator, it literally started as adventuring explorers graverobbing for profit.
And you're moving the goalposts from "dnd isn't like this" to "original DND that inspiried MMOs isn't like this".
I don't argue with disingenuous homosexuals such as yourself. Good day.
5E is not D&D.
Apparently 3e, 3.5e, and 4e aren't D&D either.
Yes. WotC D&D and TSR D&D are completely different games from each other in scope, tone, and mechanics.
5e is pretty based. I can't see how I put up with 3.5/pathfinder for so long before 5e came out. frick 4e though, that was bad
5E is the worst edition of the game I've played and I've played all but 3 of them. It's a shit game and completely missed the point of D&D.
what is the "point" of dnd and how does 5e miss it?
not that anon, but it is more designed like a video game would do customization. i feel that people who criticize 5e forget about Rule Zero, and that they are templates and guidelines more than hard rules, which is more or less a DM problem. The issue is is that creativity thrives in a perfect ratio of freedom and structure, and there's too much structure provided in 5e, and as such, stifles creativity.
Rule zero is not an excuse for shit rules.
your DM is shit if they can't run a game without having his face buried in a pdf for the entire session. 5e is a crutch for lazy players who want a template. which i can understand, and the days of minmaxing character stats for broken ass level 1 half celestial half dragon sorceror/rangers with 45HP and 4 attacks every round is just as bad
Period. Every time there's a shit rule that has to be changed or excised, that's time and effort the GM could have spent on the campaign itself.
I agree with you anon. My argument is that its the playerbase that both allows these rules to pervade and keep buying their shit.
you're also correct in that DMs who have to customize EVERYTHING in order to get an enjoyable experience for the table is going to spend more time rule lawyering than narrating, making maps, etc. so while i agree with you, its on the basis that its the players that allow bad rulesets to exist, and its more on them to take responsibility for their session, moreso than wotc to make a perfect set of rules, which is theoretically impossible
naw i'm just citing a real life example i had. my second ever campaign this guy, a sperg before spergs were called spergs, showed up and claimed that it was balanced for a level 1 start
That's not the fault of the game, though, that guy was blatantly cheating.
>and the days of minmaxing character stats for broken ass level 1 half celestial half dragon sorceror/rangers with 45HP and 4 attacks every round is just as bad
It's hilarious you think that was anything but a self-sorting problem thanks to LA and the problem wasn't the guy rolling straight Druid or Cleric. Templates and LA races were rarely a net gain in effectiveness.
i'll agree that it can be a bit limiting, but the tradeoff for that is that there aren't really objectively shit classes or trap options like there were in 3.5. characters also feel a bit more well rounded in 5e as opposed to being hyper specialized idiot savants. I understand how the changes can be stifling, but I feel that it runs so much more efficiently and is much better balanced as a result.
There are objectively shit classes and trap options in 5E because what defines those is how they stack up to other classes. Way of the Four Elements Monk is a very obvious trap option.
4 elements is crap but monk is still a solid class. I never said those sort of things were gone entirely, but a bad 5e class or option is gonna be better than a bad 3.5 class or option.
>but a bad 5e class or option is gonna be better than a bad 3.5 class or option.
That doesn't make them good. They're also worse than a bad 4E option.
>That doesn't make them good.
Once again, I never said that. I said that bad options in 5e wouldn't cripple your character the way they would in 3.5. also 4e was weird and didn't feel like dnd.
4E felt more like D&D to me than 5E did.
I'll admit it's been a long time since I played it, but it never felt quite right. I never really bought into the argument that the classes feel like they belong in an mmo or something, but I did find it hard to refute. I might have to give it another shot someday now that all the controversy is over
The point from the very beginning to adventure to get loot to get stronger so you can adventure more to get more loot and to get stronger. There is a reason D&D started with gold for XP, not tasks for XP. 5E chopped off the balls of character progression, gave players an utterly broken economy that left them with nothing to do with the gold they earned, and made magical items superfluous because the game's math functions without them.
Kys 5egay
5e isn't D&D
There are no written mechanics in 5e that support it being a story game. What theater kids try to turn it into has 0 relation to the actual game
you're moronic, it's all about getting loot and exp
Original D&D even merged the two
Do it just because is still possible on vertical progression as well
Again, horizontal loses all extrinsic motivators without generating new intrinsic ones hence its garbage and dead like gw2
>Again, horizontal loses all extrinsic motivators without generating new intrinsic ones
The design can be more focused on getting as much equipment as you want because the difference between a theme park and a sandbox is removing items from the economy. It's actually much more fun because betting what's equipped and inventoried is really adrenergic.
No, the difference between a themepark and a sandbox is in world design.
No; random events doesn't make a linear world dynamic.
>needs bigger numbers to stay motivated
unlocking the various mount types in GW2 felt more rewarding than any new piece of gear that will be replaced in a few months.
It's the same as for vertical except instead of doing world quests and mythic on repeat to get an ilvl, you choose amongst a variety of activities from professions to world PvE and PvP to have and get varied playstyles, power, and riches.
>Take the Guild Wars 1 pill and learn the error of the industry's ways.
FTFY
imo leveling needs to be done right or not done at all. It needs to have its own connected story, it needs voice acting, it needs world building, and most importantly it needs to feel like a game within itself. Without these elements it becomes a slog in some way. Classic is fine, but you have to read, and the quest design is outdated. Retails opening experience is okay. But after basically turns into dungeon slog. Why even have leveling in retail, the entire games content is based on end game. Starting at level 50 would make way more sense than the current system.
How did WOW have so many comfy locations?
They had some of the best artists in the industry back in the 2000s and the designs were based on Warcraft 3. Slowly they veered more towards pixarshit since Cata or so.
RaidBlack folk ruin every MMO with their autistic obsessions with 'progression'. They will tell you to git gud... how about you git sum taste? They don't even enjoy the game. I'd rather have a server full of casual nabs than raidBlack folk. It's always fun when they get their fee fees hurt when you call them out.
Reminder...
Hell no. The entire classic line is the bottom pic only
>Wrath classic comes out
>all the content is cleared in 2 short weeks by streamers
>people run out of things to do
>...anyone else have fond memories of cataclysm? it was so much better than Wrath
>yeah Cata raids were hard, the dungeons were hard, Deathwing was cool as frick I want Cata Classic frick Wrath
>yeah Wrath sucked
wrath did suck until ulduar, and then began to decline afterwards
everyone seems to have forgotten this
I cant imagine anyone having nostalgia for the argent tournament or even ICC still have this left over from when it was relevant
Cataclysm is too cursed to ever have enough mass nostalgia to justify a classic version. Besides people are openly nostolgic about MoP and Legion now.
the first raid tier of cata and the pre-nerf heroics was fricking awesome
Honestly after playing through Classic and TBCC I figured out that WoW was the mistake, not the expansions. It strayed too far from what MMORPGs were and massively changed the direction they were going towards. And that change was not for the better.
I just want an MMO to do what Ultima Online did but with modern mechanical advancements. WoW and all of its formulaic copies are just so boring.
Explain what was so good about ultima online to someone who didn’t play ultima online
It was basically runescape nearly a decade before runescape took off.
Except with full open PVP and full loot drop on death. But since servers were actual communities back then, if you were a known PK you were a known PK and were on a ton of different clans KOS list, as well as facing a number of penalties on your own character just for being a PK.
It was glorious and truly nothing like it has ever been done again. Runescape is the closest, but Runescape doesn't even begin to hold a candle to UO at its peak.
>It was basically runescape
so it was basically trash, got it
?t=930
I think the next-gen MMO should have more immersive sim and simulation aspects to it. Instanced and non-instanced dungeons are an issue, but I think players should have a persistent effect on the world they play. Moreover, next-gen AI and high-performance programming should allow the quest givers to additionally procedurally generate quests based on relevant parameters. Let's say the mayor of a town tells you that the town needs lumber to restore buildings after being raided, but everyone cut down trees for their crafting stuff so there are no trees in sight. You could then also turn to the enemy faction (or even your own??) and steal their lumber to complete the quest. If you can properly simulate things like that then you can create emergent gameplay and even storytelling. I think Chris Crawford was trying to do this for 30+ years. Players don't write stories, they experience them. This is amplified tenfold in MMOs. Are there MMOs that do something like this? Do modern MMO players disagree with this design?
>procedural generation
No bro its always soul-less. Instead the MMO of the future will have player designed content. The game comes with some kind of dungeon creator software for instance, and players can build their own dungeons. Then some kind of mechanism to allow for the cream to rise to the top, and players are incentivized or compensated for making good content. Wallah, now your MMO has pretty much unlimited content because the players make it themselves.
>No bro its always soul-less.
I usually don't like procedural gen either, but I think it can be done in limited capabilities. More like semi-procedural, but more with abstract AI functions rather than procedurally generating dungeons for instance (which often are soulless)
>The game comes with some kind of dungeon creator software for instance,
this is interesting, but this would be outside the game world I assume? Would players design this outside the game like the world editor in Warcraft 3?
Let's extrapolate even further, if players can design dungeons with demons inside them, then why not let players play the enemy faction (demons and whatnot) themselves?
It could be that faction a makes dungeons for faction b and vice versa. You could include a pvp aspect to it but then you have matchmaking complicating matters.
Imagine if an mmorpg had a dynamic world where the monster spawns aren't always static. Like say enough players exterminate goblins in some cave and the world state changes, goblins no longer spawn there. So for a while players don't have much reason to go there since it's basically empty but eventually something else takes it over or maybe a new band of goblins finds their home there.
Combine this with a procedural quest system that makes these sorts of "adventure guild" requests based on the state of the world. That goblin nest was left unchecked for a while? Maybe the goblins grow stronger and more numerous and the adventurer's guild ingame issues a quest to hunt goblins. How is this not the perfect procedural system for mmorpgs? I think the biggest flaw in all of mmorpgs was pretty much the static state of the world. Once they've been explored once they've been explored forever. Because it never changes, old places you've visited never give you a new reason to visit them unless you're doing grinding for some materials or gathering but even with those it tends to make low level areas irrelevant once you've progressed past them. This sort of dynamic system could revolutionize that. Players would have to adapt to the state of the world and they'd have some power over how it evolves.
>so what if we had a goblin cave
>and we killed all the goblins
>and some new goblins came in
so you want respawns but with an extra step. you're not going to revolutionize shit by recycling old mechanics
What if the cave was taken over by undead instead of another band of goblins? I simplified my example too much.
desu, i just want a mmo where levels are grindy outside of combat classes since you gotta give the normies who just want to pve with friends a bone. Professions in wow and ff14 all seems so fricking useless compared to a game like runescape, wheres the skillers, those who got lvl 1 combat classes but maxed in crafting and gatering jobs.
Actually frick it il keep going or the guys who literally only play the game to do all the quests in the game (no main story like ff14,moron mmo design choice since if people dont like the story you are fricked) which means those people who pursuit to do all the quests in the game will fill in all the combat class level req and level up the professions to fulfill the quest req.
Or how about people who just want to pvp? give them the best way to do combat without needless fricking grind.
PVE players will still get their raids and bosses.
Literally all i want from a mmo is quality not quanity, no more throwing away expansions of content, no more fricking forced msq to play a mmo, no more fricking endgame focus to enjoy the game. Fricking you got 1 world, you put quality stuff in it over the years, no more expansions. Have a large team to listen to player feedback and whatever content gets dropped in the game thats not well recieved will get tweaked till it actually serves a purpose thats not "you gotta grind it to do x" no more fricking throwing away stuff because the next expansion wipes the slate clean with higher ilevel items. Frick the amount of gear thrown into a mmo that gets rendered obsolete after 2 years is jsut fricking annoying.
Also frick the moronic ass, cant play all classes on one account. homie IF I WANT TO LEVEL A ALT, I CAN JUST CREATE A ALT, WHY THE FRICK ISNT THERE A OPTION TO KEEP IT ALL ON 1 CHARACTER.
also frick paying for character transfer, how the frick can runescape let you jump between worlds instantly with no fee and play with your friends on another realm instantly, but fricking wow you gotta pay and in ff14 you cant even fricking interract with your own bank. These moronic ass mmo designs im sick of it.
Oh yeah, lets talk about auction house, how the frick does mmos like wow and ff14 not have a shared market it literally solves the economy on all servers. I cant fricking believe it, oh yeh and letting people jump realms for free in a ingame menu and its instantly solves all the problems with dead fricking serves.How the frick does runescape have this but wow and ff14 does not, what the frick.
yeah but normies don't and normally that wouldn't matter, but since you're asking for an MMO, you're asking for others to play it with you
we'll never get a true sandbox MMO, there's no money in it
>Arguing about whether 3.5 or 5e is worst
KNEEL
That's not 2E, that's 1E. 2E used THAC0.
My brother in christ, that image is literally the first result in google when you search for THAC0 which a Cacodemon face on it.
Whoever posted it fricked up then.
The next MMO to surpass WoW will have no overworld and instead just a city hub you stand in waiting to join dungeons and raids.
I prefer 5e and play it weekly
The reason WoW used to be good? The server.
Removing the server, adding phasing, putting players in "battlegroups" or whatever has 100% killed everything that made the game good. Back when it was good you had the following situation:
>see the same players all the time
>players have reputations
>you can recognize the best geared players on sight
>active forums so that everyone knows whats going on with the server, players can become infamous, horde/alliance shit talking etc
>You have to interact with other people to get things done
>You want to make friends and have a good reputation because its fun and helps you in the game
The server was the life of the game. If they had put their effort into making the servers themselves flourish, the game would have flourished.
active GMs who would steer and assist people made that possible. I still run into newbies and morons who don't know anything about the game every day, those GMs served a vital role handling those people and they no longer exist.
Adding to that, one thing that ruined WoW from the get-go is flight paths, mounts and later flying mounts. In EQ, you had to travel on foot almost everywhere, but you could get movement speed buffs from other players, or a teleport from certain classes only to their specific spires in the world at the cost of a specific reagent - this created interaction and a player service economy, but most importantly, the world felt huge and meaningful because you had to travel through dangerous areas which was high risk (WoW also ruined risk with the spirit realm respawn horse shit). That is until EQ made the same mistake of constantly improving QOL, which eventually led to the plane of knowledge, which had a teleporter to every area in the game for the most part and killed everything it initially had going for it above.
OK grandpa, we've heard you tell the same story about first-gen MMOs for a while now, and I think it's time for you to go to bed.
It happened to me and it already happened to you
Yeah, WoW was EQ dumbed-down for the masses. It wasn't bad, but it could have been a whole lot better.
>but it could have been a whole lot better.
Yeah, it could have not crowbarred in a fricking faction war at the last second because of DAoCtards working on the game.
World PvP created some of WoW's most memorable experiences, though. It's not my fault someone kept ganking you.
World PvP isn't dependent on a faction war.
Its the best way to do it though. If you have zones where everyone can attack everytone shit will become too much of a bloodbath. Youll never complete a quest
What's wrong with that?
No it isn't.
>Youll
social skill issue
>WoW also ruined risk with the spirit realm respawn horse shit
WoW did that because XP and gear loss on death was ruining player uptake.
They should allow free server transfers and have server based construction to personalize zones with bonuses, resources, and NPCs / behavior.
>muh server reputation
This is such a boomer take.
In a way that you were still a sperm in your second dad's ball sac when it was a thing? Yeah.
>cares about reputation
>posts on an anonymous site
Thanks for proving my point. You have no idea how server reputation affected your chances to find a group, or made it a lot easier since your name could be familiar among people who had pleasant or unpleasant experiences with you.
>tfw got blocked from half of trade, reported and suspended several times because of my bants
>misspelled Schwarzenegger because i'm not fricking from california
>get banned
>call enemies that throw spears "spearchuckers"
>get banned
>made the "anal" joke
>get banned
>leveling in Tanaris, get ganked hard by NPCs, rando offers assistance
>message back
>Player is ignoring you.
Probably one of the most masochistic experiences and they deserve all the player burn they get now
>>tfw got blocked from half of trade, reported and suspended several times because of my bants
Yeah it's them, not you /s
>misspelled Schwarzenegger because i'm not fricking from california
you're not fooling anyone, anon
vanilla wow is almost 20 years old and STILL no MMO feels as nice in terms of responsiveness of your character and the animations.
How in the frick bro
Wildstar was OK; I critiqued leveling then too and quit because I couldn't level via PvP.
You posted this almost word for word yesterday.
DCUO
Wildstar
Rift
SWTOR
and many of the chinkware MMOs all have near, equal, or better responsiveness and animations.
lol no I didnt. Someone else must be thinking exactly what I think.
I havent played any of those except SWTOR but it definitely does not feel good like WoW. Or at least didnt at release, when I played it.
Who let /tg/ in? Is it the smell?
nutriBlack person thead
nobody ever invited my hunter to groups in classic
lol had the same problem. God I love vanilla but hate the classic community.
shame too. I wanted to relive my vanilla days where I was in full tier 1 and 31/20/0 talents running people through mara and BRD and just having fun. Now I am not #1 dps so I dont get invited and dont get any items.
Same, I didn't want to be a healer or tank again. At least hunter can make it's own fun.
Someone with actual knowledge give me the basic rundown, because I've been in the market to casually replay WoW.
Vanilla/TBC/WotLK private vs public
Don't care about the subscription cost. But who does it better, Blizzard or randoms? Can I expect to have fun if I wait 2 months for WotLK from Blizzard? How do they progress the servers, if they do? And do they add stupid shit or keep it classic? or should I just be waiting for X private server because Blizzard can't keep itself from ruining good things?
TBC>vanilla>
btw
private servers do it better but you always run the risk of getting a virus or having your data harvested by a literally who
Blizzard servers become instantly imbalanced and fricked up, and you're forced to transfer to the one server for your faction. It's MUCH easier to find pugs and guilds on p-servers as well. Also for some reason private-servers tend to have a wider variety of players, aka a lot more casual/inbetween players than blizzard servers. I think this is what tends to make it seem a lot more authentic/ like it used to be. GDKP runs and cringe sweating seems to predominate blizz servers way more, because people falsely assume it's more "real"
t. played TBC private servers for years + the blizzard server
>Also for some reason private-servers tend to have a wider variety of players, aka a lot more casual/inbetween players than blizzard servers.
always expected the opposite to be true
Blizz launch is mostly good. It's the long term issues that plagues blizz servers like server imbalance. Private servers rely on some scummy russians getting donations from power users but the implementation is often fairly authentic. I slightly prefer Blizz as scuffed as it is.
I kinda wish I could live in a VR WoW when I get to be old and disabled. Just sitting around in Ashenvale fishing with some bros would be so nice.
Do you like the Dreadlord lore?
>Venthyr
>Nathrezim
>Denathrius
i think them being super vampires behind every conflict in the universe could have been interesting. but the one coordinating their efforts should never have been revealed, or even existed. also, the fact that they are aligned with one of the 6 fundamental forces of nature feels off, as they should be completely separate from it if they're going with this angle
Is Mal'ganis dead? I know you fight him in Sepulcher.
Ma´Ganis is fel infused and thereby a demon, so he´s in the Twisting Nether reforming (Should take centuries though as demons dont got Argus speeding it up anymore.)
Nah Denathrius will bail him out
Aren't the dreadlords supposed to be handsome?
I don't recall anything like that.
I know that Azshara finds Archimonde handsome, but that's about it.
It doesn't want to be, though? Where did you get the impression that leveling was meant to be 'survival themed'?
Retail leveling is actually in one of the best spots it's been in a long time, since you can level anywhere, at any pace, with anyone, can do PVP and get endgame progress whilst doing it.
But morons continue to cry for the old days where you had to do 1000 collect 50 boar asses quests like that was fun or interesting in any way.
WoW is doomed not because of Blizzard, but because of the playerbase that is so jaded and burned out that they shit on everything Blizzard throws out. Torghast is a perfect example. People back then would've KILLED for something like Torghast. People nowadays hate it and shat on it because apparently Blizzard forces them to run it 50000 times a day. I don't fricking get these people. Yes, Blizz is full of subhuman moron trannies and the story is a complete shitfest, but frick me if the playerbase isn't just as much to blame for WoW's declining popularity.
It was doomed because things like youtube became common and everyone expected to you watch youtube instead of learning through playing.
Welcome to any serious game.
There is nothing serious about gaming and that attitude is shit. Gaming is a waste of time and getting worked up while wasting time is moronic.
moron.
It's boring as hell. Why even bother playing?
>oh hey guys the problem is already solved? K i'm da winner!
>hurr durr derp collective knowledge is useless
Let me know how well trying to learn go by playing instead of reading works out for you.
Where did you get the impression that "survival" isn't the common theme of vanilla WoW?
it might have been a "common theme" for pvp servers but otherwise it was nonexistent
What do you call winning vs. an opponent? What do buffs, pets, and power provide?
>What do you call winning vs. an opponent?
uh, winning?
Surviving; survivability.
but i didn't survive, i won.
>[Arguing against true semantics].
it's not semantics if it's two different things, autist-sama
Would you like to try to explain how survival and winning are different?
sure, survival is barely being able to live in a world that is utterly out to get you at every turn
meanwhile winning is the opposite of survival, you have no fears about what might kill you because it/they are already dead or pose no real threat to you.
so if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it, PvP realms would count towards "survival" because you have to somehow quest in contested zones and not die due to whatever you need to kill for that quest AND deal with some homosexual who may or may not be out to get you.
meanwhile in non PvP realms, there's no surviving, just winning., you're going around and winning with other players who team up with you because you're on the same quests.
now if we're done here, i'm going to go back to winning
So, what is the association that food has with comfiness, warmth, and health? Why is it fun to stealth near multiple enemies while one is dangerous enough? Why is getting items and money, affording ammo, bags, and upgrades so fulfilling?
not him, but you're asking him to explain why you feel a certain way. there's no way he could possibly know
>"Why is roleplaying having such common themes? Is near, if not, 100% physiological similarity enough to enjoy the same notions?"
you are presenting your experience and your opinions as objective and universal fact. try again
Do you have a contest to the associations?
i don't understand your question
Retail leveling is a 12-hour chore where you run around a completely indecipherable setting and one-shot barely-functional mobs that have been turned into vegetables by multiple passes through the stat squisher.
It exists to be just annoying enough to encourage morons like you to spend $60 on a boost.
It is in no way "actually in one of the best spots it's been in a long time".
>one-shot barely functional mobs
Firstly, not true in the slightest. Yes, it's obviously not the moronic vanilla shit of pull single mob, lose half health, sit to eat for 5 seconds, pull another garbage loop. It's 'how many can I pull and fight without dying' which is infinitely more interesting and fun than the vanilla alternative.
Dumbasses like you act as if vanilla mobs weren't EVEN fricking dumber and not just stat sticks with less abilities and attacks.
>12 hour chore
If it's a chore, I'd rather it be a 12 hour chore instead of a 100 hour chore. You might've liked the whole 'who subjects themselves through the more mind-numbing boredom quicker' competition that was vanilla, I legitimately enjoy leveling. Exploring, doing PVP, doing entire zones, whichever ones I want, and getting the occasional rare drop or cool transmog. You are exactly the type of idiot that ruined the game, the ones I talked about, that are so completely burned out and jaded that you see everything as a chore where the only point of it is to get your numbers as high as possible. You and every other cancer like you should leave and never come back.
moronic take
Though not quite as moronic as having no counter-argument.
>low-level overworld content is instakill
You have not played WoW recently. Please stop posting.
What's the point of just blatantly lying about something anyone who has played in the last 8 years would know?
Everyone who has played since MoP knows that low-level overworld content is deleting something with a single button press.
"How many can I pull and fight without dying"? As many as you can fricking aggro at once.
I'm sorry you have such shit taste that you genuinely enjoy the experience of running around thoughtlessly spamming arcane explosion for 12 hours. Do people a favor and keep your opinions of who "ruined the game" to yourself, you drooling moron.
>Linear gameplay.
>Not a chore.
>literally has never been less linear in the history of the entire game
I'm done with this thread, I actually feel my brain cells dying.
Not sure how many are left for someone defending retail.
I was obviously talking about character progression and world dynamism.
In which case you'd still be dead wrong. Frick off.
>character progression
>wowwwww i get a new talent that gives me 0.1% mana regen and one ability every 10 levels
Actual subhuman.
Post comfy wow pics anons. Never got to play in it's best days due to having slow internet at home
i would but over the course of 16 years and roughly 4 computers i've lost all my screenshots due to not having backups
shame too, i sometimes wonder how my old guildmates have been since they jumped servers after wrath and left me alone
🙁
>WoW getting mogged by ESO of all games now
Crazy to think about really. Dead genre. Glad I went cold turkey and just deleted my blizz acc during BfA
>you can only act the say I say you can!
>why are there no new players?
If they bring back Caverns of Time I want to see the Siege of Quel'thalas as a dungeon/raid.
>Siege of Quel'thalas
I can't wait to help blizzard's waifu sylvanas kill arthas
I just want a new classic fresh to play. I haven’t touched wow for like 2 and a half years and I’m ready for another leveling adventure. I’m thinkin it’s gonna be a troll hunter this time. God I want to pvp in Ashenvale and STV right now
why
I haven't felt the slightest interest to return to wow after SoM
>learn to cook; make food; get arrows; tame a pet".
this was never wow you stupid Black person
maybe for you, dumb zoomer
no it wasnt you fricking morons. youre the zoomers making shit up about MUH VANILLA!!!
you never played it.
It was anon
maybe you were on elitistjerks minmaxing from day 1, but the rest of us were having an adventure
It was.
>"What is ilvl only being gained, obsoleting previous zones, dungeons, and raids?"
FF11 was always better than WoW, and always will be
It's a completely different kind of MMO
the Everquest/FFXI formula is great but it's more for neckbeards and basement-dwelling roleplaying game nerds
IE the people who should be playing MMOs
I want to make an MMO with graphics and scale like this and combat like a first/third person melee slasher with magic.
Or someone else can steal my idea idc we just need this to happen.
How many people do you think will have the immortal title by the second week of wrath classic? Maybe like half of max level character you think?
Going to post various comfy screenshots
? retail 1-60 is like... sub 10 hours per character
It's more like 20 ish if you don't poopsock max efficiency speedrun
you clicked it didn't you
This shit game is so unbelievably ugly that just looking at the screenshots in this thread makes me want to pour bleach into my eyes
How can you tasteless homosexuals play this trash for hours and hours?
imagine how based it would be if
>ally got vrykul instead of kul'tirans
>horde got mogu instead of highmountain