list of things going wrong followed by proof of their direct negative impact on the game or you're talking out of your ass and prob got frickin farmed during wotlk pvp and still salty about it.
>storytelling >we want the story to more closely involve the main villain >here's arthas! wave to the camera arthas! okay now summon a boss for the heroes to fight arthas! okay good everyone say bye to arthas until you see him for the same thing next zone! >what do you mean he isn't being taken seriously? don't you know he was grooming YOU personally?
>heirlooms >everyone's playing at endgame? why can't we get to endgame again faster? I like endgame >here you go, now you can be OP as frick for all of the leveling process >and get so much XP you'll outpace everyone leveling normally, leaving those areas even more vacant
>rehash content >nobody got to EXPERIENCE naxxramas >let's just rerelease it for round two, not like anyone can just go back there now
>class balance >threat? nobody wants to manage that lol just be DPS with defensive cooldowns >healer mana? nobody wants to manage that lol just spam flash heal >bring the person not the class bro, we'll just pass all these unique things your class can do to other classes, trust me it'll be awesome
>dungeon finder (aka beginning of the end) >there's nothing wrong with dungeon finder! you still have to travel there and it just puts five people together >wtf do you mean you don't want a part of 3 fury warriors? okay we'll just make all of the DPS the same >wtf do you mean you only want holy priests? okay we'll make sure every healer has similar toolkits >you didn't get any CC? fine we'll make it so you don't need CC >you don't want to walk? okay we'll cut all that out too I guess >server community? miss me with that gay shit let's just pull from anywhere
now's the part where you say "well I don't think there was anything wrong with any of that", and that's how we got the genre we have now, enjoy your XIV and Shadowlands
Heirlooms really needed to be addressed sooner than they were. Now, they're a nice bonus but really aren't as meaningful.
And as far as rehashing content is concerned, that's something WoW had been dealing with for such a long time. A lot of it could be avoided by keeping old content relevant, instead of sweeping the last expansion under the rug instantly. There's a lot of games that manage to balance that kind of thing.
>that azjol-nerub zone and raid never happened
Wotlk was full of so much filler. Naxx was very clearly a cop-out, the excuse of "we wanted to reuse it i swear guys" horseshit, pure laziness
Given how wrath's tiers worked out, I think it was more "Ulduar isn't going to be anywhere near ready for release. We're gonna have to come up with something to tide things over."
Same reason we got trial of the crusader or whatever. Filler tier. Then we got ICC which they clearly worked on a lot. Then we got another filler tier.
I still forget that the dragonshit raid was a thing.
Not him, but >someone states their opinion on wrath, and the direction of WoW hence >UHH CAN YOU OBJECTIVELY QUANTIFY THE EXACT MATH BEHIND THESE "FACTS", SIR? >they give the reasoning behind their subjective opinion >WOW THESE ARE OPINIONS
you really sound like a moron here, brother, and I mean that in the kindest way possible.
>storytelling >we want the story to more closely involve the main villain >here's arthas! wave to the camera arthas! okay now summon a boss for the heroes to fight arthas! okay good everyone say bye to arthas until you see him for the same thing next zone! >what do you mean he isn't being taken seriously? don't you know he was grooming YOU personally?
>heirlooms >everyone's playing at endgame? why can't we get to endgame again faster? I like endgame >here you go, now you can be OP as frick for all of the leveling process >and get so much XP you'll outpace everyone leveling normally, leaving those areas even more vacant
>rehash content >nobody got to EXPERIENCE naxxramas >let's just rerelease it for round two, not like anyone can just go back there now
>class balance >threat? nobody wants to manage that lol just be DPS with defensive cooldowns >healer mana? nobody wants to manage that lol just spam flash heal >bring the person not the class bro, we'll just pass all these unique things your class can do to other classes, trust me it'll be awesome
>dungeon finder (aka beginning of the end) >there's nothing wrong with dungeon finder! you still have to travel there and it just puts five people together >wtf do you mean you don't want a part of 3 fury warriors? okay we'll just make all of the DPS the same >wtf do you mean you only want holy priests? okay we'll make sure every healer has similar toolkits >you didn't get any CC? fine we'll make it so you don't need CC >you don't want to walk? okay we'll cut all that out too I guess >server community? miss me with that gay shit let's just pull from anywhere
now's the part where you say "well I don't think there was anything wrong with any of that", and that's how we got the genre we have now, enjoy your XIV and Shadowlands
Yeah, during those beautiful years many players thought they could have replacement, but:
-The last relevant orc, Saurfang, does nothing and turns into a kid lover, there´s two strong female orcs in northrend one of them is into Garrosh and they are forgotten.
-Humans have the orc-brained Varyan and....Genn, a guy who´s ridiculized at every possible moment, sometimes they made him look like a dumb clown
It had some alright stuff. I agree that it was the beginning of the downwards trend though. They finally got a coherent design direction with raids and whatnot. Ulduar was fricking unironically kino.
But after Ulduar it all just kind of kept being shitty. ICC was quite good, but that's to be expected given how long it was in the tank for.
PvP for the entire expansion was exciting. Loved doing double rogue 2's. An improvement over BC's in the context that it had a lot more variety to what you'd run into, composition wise. Wintergrasp was good, if sometimes unplayable. Shame that's getting taken out back and shot in the head. That's what happens when you fire devs over and over again instead of keeping the ancient code-wizards that can still understand a 20+ year old game.
But, with the queue tool being added, and kicking dailies up so far in priority for their design that they released an entire raid tier based on that dumb shit, they started to dissect the communities that had cropped up in the game already. Something they only now are coming to terms with. So it was really the start of everything that would kill the game, for me.
>everything that went wrong with wow
list of things going wrong followed by proof of their direct negative impact on the game or you're talking out of your ass and prob got frickin farmed during wotlk pvp and still salty about it.
There's a reason it peaked with wrath but went down from there. It wasn't all on Cataclysm. Wrath laid the groundwork for WoW to start failing.
>It wasn't all on Cataclysm. Wrath laid the groundwork for WoW to start failing
BC started the shitball, it was just rolling full speed by the time ICC stayed around for too long.
Yeah, that's not an unfair statement. I think BC had a lot of issues. Mostly in the writing, but you can definitely see the trend of engagement based metrics really fricking with the vibes of the design at that point.
Frick ogrila dailies. I will never look at simon says with anything but the utmost contempt.
BC did as much damage to the game by introducing arena, flying mounts, and focused daily quest content. Where Wrath went wrong was not taking the responsible approach of looking at these shitty features and making the necessary adjustments to preserve the game's integrity. Flying mounts for example could have been healthy for the game if they had any sort of weakness built in, instead they were just god mode noclip 10 miles over everything with no consequences. Arenas should never have become the vehicle determining class design & balance.
Don't forget badges and shit for BC as well. Depending on who you ask even vanilla and the changes that happened during that time were laying the foundation for what retail WoW is now. Instances, raid lockouts, solo and endgame focused content, etc. The point of contention is where it tipped over from manageable chaos to neo-nu-WoW. I don't think anyone could argue that by Cata it was already too late.
But for me personally it was around TBC prepatch. I think even though I was young and dumber at the time I knew something was fundamentally changing the way you interact with people. Just as a War tank at the time, TBC prepatch introduced motherfricking shockwave and made threat a non issue, both dramatically changing how we did dungeons/heroics. It was no longer about careful management of adds it was just bring on the AoE baby. My guild loved me because I understood how this worked to the point that I could just chain pull dungeons like I was a pro even though I was absolutely as shitty as everyone else. I distinctly remember once RDF opened up going through Azjol'Nerub and people I never played with before had told me that I was ruining the game by playing that way. Now I know what they meant. But it wasn't really my fault, it was how they changed the way it was played.
It is funny because that kind of meta-progression of chain pulling didn't happen everywhere. A lot of people on smaller servers were still doing the same old CC trains and careful management, even if they never really had to do it. RDF really did frick the poodle.
The issue is that all the good rewards for pvp were tied to arena, it wasn't an optional game mode for pvp, it became pvp with everything else taking the backseat
Yeah, the reward systems were also kind of fricked up in general. They did keep trying to fix it but never really committed to having more options for that sort of thing. RBG's came late and still don't really resolve the issue entirely.
The vault stuff that's current is an okay solution, but that loops back to engagement based metrics really fricking with the vibes of the design. I don't want to do things to check boxes on a weekly basis. I want to do things for the sake of doing things that are fun to do in of itself. I went to MC to raid because I wanted to kill Ragnaros because that dude was fricking huge and made of fire and lived in a volcano and was so strong you needed 39 other mouthbreathers to chuck frostbolts at him, and that's pretty cool. So I did it. I don't care if I got shit out of it or not. There wasn't achievements for it and I didn't need a quest to give me 25 gold to do it every week, or a little gear box that would magically appear after maintenance to motivate me to murder him. And I don't need to be incentivized to keep doing it because I'll either keep hanging with the homies for the fun of the company I'm with, or I'll move onto the other million things I can do in the game like stealthing in elwynn with an exploding sheep so I can watch newbies kill themselves.
Wotlk could've been "tbc was our first expansion so we fricked some things up but we learned and will fix that in the second expansion" but it just accelerated in the opposite direction
The new fresh servers they released have a smaller pop than Season of Mastery did even on my shitty lower pop server and that's only 2. Now look at them. I think people are at lot less hype then people are making it out to be.
I'm not listening to Blizzard at all. There's just a sentiment that Wrath would have a giant influx of people due to it being a favorite expac for many but signs are just a continual downward trend after the tourists come by. I bet Blizzard will add in the 50% xp buff to be permanent before long just like they tried to do with SoM once the population dies.
its ridiculous opening group finder and being bombarded with RMT ads then you scroll down and get tons of >YO BIG DICK DPS 250 ILVL MINIMUM >person who made the group is in full blues and basically just looking for a carry
Eh, played it when it was current content and had my fun. I can't get excited for a 15-year-old expansion anymore.
Wait, you arent excited to do a Azjol-Nerub run again on Heroic?!
Man when you put it that way, I can't wait!
Wrath was shit and anyone that believes otherwise is nostalgiablind.
Almost everything that went wrong with WoW started here.
>everything that went wrong with wow
list of things going wrong followed by proof of their direct negative impact on the game or you're talking out of your ass and prob got frickin farmed during wotlk pvp and still salty about it.
let's do this
>storytelling
>we want the story to more closely involve the main villain
>here's arthas! wave to the camera arthas! okay now summon a boss for the heroes to fight arthas! okay good everyone say bye to arthas until you see him for the same thing next zone!
>what do you mean he isn't being taken seriously? don't you know he was grooming YOU personally?
>heirlooms
>everyone's playing at endgame? why can't we get to endgame again faster? I like endgame
>here you go, now you can be OP as frick for all of the leveling process
>and get so much XP you'll outpace everyone leveling normally, leaving those areas even more vacant
>rehash content
>nobody got to EXPERIENCE naxxramas
>let's just rerelease it for round two, not like anyone can just go back there now
>class balance
>threat? nobody wants to manage that lol just be DPS with defensive cooldowns
>healer mana? nobody wants to manage that lol just spam flash heal
>bring the person not the class bro, we'll just pass all these unique things your class can do to other classes, trust me it'll be awesome
>dungeon finder (aka beginning of the end)
>there's nothing wrong with dungeon finder! you still have to travel there and it just puts five people together
>wtf do you mean you don't want a part of 3 fury warriors? okay we'll just make all of the DPS the same
>wtf do you mean you only want holy priests? okay we'll make sure every healer has similar toolkits
>you didn't get any CC? fine we'll make it so you don't need CC
>you don't want to walk? okay we'll cut all that out too I guess
>server community? miss me with that gay shit let's just pull from anywhere
now's the part where you say "well I don't think there was anything wrong with any of that", and that's how we got the genre we have now, enjoy your XIV and Shadowlands
Heirlooms really needed to be addressed sooner than they were. Now, they're a nice bonus but really aren't as meaningful.
And as far as rehashing content is concerned, that's something WoW had been dealing with for such a long time. A lot of it could be avoided by keeping old content relevant, instead of sweeping the last expansion under the rug instantly. There's a lot of games that manage to balance that kind of thing.
well I don't think there was anything wrong with any of that
>that azjol-nerub zone and raid never happened
Wotlk was full of so much filler. Naxx was very clearly a cop-out, the excuse of "we wanted to reuse it i swear guys" horseshit, pure laziness
Ulduar was the absolute pinnacle of WoW, it was so good that everyone turns a blind eye to all the other raids in the expansion.
agreed, ulduar is kino and is the saving grace of wotlk
Given how wrath's tiers worked out, I think it was more "Ulduar isn't going to be anywhere near ready for release. We're gonna have to come up with something to tide things over."
Same reason we got trial of the crusader or whatever. Filler tier. Then we got ICC which they clearly worked on a lot. Then we got another filler tier.
I still forget that the dragonshit raid was a thing.
these are opinions not facts backed up by proof as I stated in my original post. Nice try tho you frickin moron.
Not him, but
>someone states their opinion on wrath, and the direction of WoW hence
>UHH CAN YOU OBJECTIVELY QUANTIFY THE EXACT MATH BEHIND THESE "FACTS", SIR?
>they give the reasoning behind their subjective opinion
>WOW THESE ARE OPINIONS
you really sound like a moron here, brother, and I mean that in the kindest way possible.
samegay, assblasted, booty bothered and butthurt.
Ah, you're pretending to be moronic. Got it.
Nta but Wrathgate was the exact moment WoW turned to shit.
And here's what the Wrathgate cinematic led to. Anyway, I'm not sticking around ITT, but WotLK was dogshit and I hated it.
Yeah, during those beautiful years many players thought they could have replacement, but:
-The last relevant orc, Saurfang, does nothing and turns into a kid lover, there´s two strong female orcs in northrend one of them is into Garrosh and they are forgotten.
-Humans have the orc-brained Varyan and....Genn, a guy who´s ridiculized at every possible moment, sometimes they made him look like a dumb clown
>the decline in the game isn't proof of direct negative impact
It had some alright stuff. I agree that it was the beginning of the downwards trend though. They finally got a coherent design direction with raids and whatnot. Ulduar was fricking unironically kino.
But after Ulduar it all just kind of kept being shitty. ICC was quite good, but that's to be expected given how long it was in the tank for.
PvP for the entire expansion was exciting. Loved doing double rogue 2's. An improvement over BC's in the context that it had a lot more variety to what you'd run into, composition wise. Wintergrasp was good, if sometimes unplayable. Shame that's getting taken out back and shot in the head. That's what happens when you fire devs over and over again instead of keeping the ancient code-wizards that can still understand a 20+ year old game.
But, with the queue tool being added, and kicking dailies up so far in priority for their design that they released an entire raid tier based on that dumb shit, they started to dissect the communities that had cropped up in the game already. Something they only now are coming to terms with. So it was really the start of everything that would kill the game, for me.
There's a reason it peaked with wrath but went down from there. It wasn't all on Cataclysm. Wrath laid the groundwork for WoW to start failing.
>It wasn't all on Cataclysm. Wrath laid the groundwork for WoW to start failing
BC started the shitball, it was just rolling full speed by the time ICC stayed around for too long.
Yeah, that's not an unfair statement. I think BC had a lot of issues. Mostly in the writing, but you can definitely see the trend of engagement based metrics really fricking with the vibes of the design at that point.
Frick ogrila dailies. I will never look at simon says with anything but the utmost contempt.
>Wrath was the shit
ftfy, only MoP was better
BC did as much damage to the game by introducing arena, flying mounts, and focused daily quest content. Where Wrath went wrong was not taking the responsible approach of looking at these shitty features and making the necessary adjustments to preserve the game's integrity. Flying mounts for example could have been healthy for the game if they had any sort of weakness built in, instead they were just god mode noclip 10 miles over everything with no consequences. Arenas should never have become the vehicle determining class design & balance.
Don't forget badges and shit for BC as well. Depending on who you ask even vanilla and the changes that happened during that time were laying the foundation for what retail WoW is now. Instances, raid lockouts, solo and endgame focused content, etc. The point of contention is where it tipped over from manageable chaos to neo-nu-WoW. I don't think anyone could argue that by Cata it was already too late.
But for me personally it was around TBC prepatch. I think even though I was young and dumber at the time I knew something was fundamentally changing the way you interact with people. Just as a War tank at the time, TBC prepatch introduced motherfricking shockwave and made threat a non issue, both dramatically changing how we did dungeons/heroics. It was no longer about careful management of adds it was just bring on the AoE baby. My guild loved me because I understood how this worked to the point that I could just chain pull dungeons like I was a pro even though I was absolutely as shitty as everyone else. I distinctly remember once RDF opened up going through Azjol'Nerub and people I never played with before had told me that I was ruining the game by playing that way. Now I know what they meant. But it wasn't really my fault, it was how they changed the way it was played.
>TBC prepatch
Sorry I meant, during TBC, at the Wrath prepatch*
cata was a return to form until wrathbabbies fricked it all up
It is funny because that kind of meta-progression of chain pulling didn't happen everywhere. A lot of people on smaller servers were still doing the same old CC trains and careful management, even if they never really had to do it. RDF really did frick the poodle.
B-But i started in BC and since i am blinded by nostalgia its the best and you are wrong!
I think Arenas were fine, but definitely should not have been a focus of class balancing.
The issue is that all the good rewards for pvp were tied to arena, it wasn't an optional game mode for pvp, it became pvp with everything else taking the backseat
Yeah, the reward systems were also kind of fricked up in general. They did keep trying to fix it but never really committed to having more options for that sort of thing. RBG's came late and still don't really resolve the issue entirely.
The vault stuff that's current is an okay solution, but that loops back to engagement based metrics really fricking with the vibes of the design. I don't want to do things to check boxes on a weekly basis. I want to do things for the sake of doing things that are fun to do in of itself. I went to MC to raid because I wanted to kill Ragnaros because that dude was fricking huge and made of fire and lived in a volcano and was so strong you needed 39 other mouthbreathers to chuck frostbolts at him, and that's pretty cool. So I did it. I don't care if I got shit out of it or not. There wasn't achievements for it and I didn't need a quest to give me 25 gold to do it every week, or a little gear box that would magically appear after maintenance to motivate me to murder him. And I don't need to be incentivized to keep doing it because I'll either keep hanging with the homies for the fun of the company I'm with, or I'll move onto the other million things I can do in the game like stealthing in elwynn with an exploding sheep so I can watch newbies kill themselves.
Wotlk could've been "tbc was our first expansion so we fricked some things up but we learned and will fix that in the second expansion" but it just accelerated in the opposite direction
The new fresh servers they released have a smaller pop than Season of Mastery did even on my shitty lower pop server and that's only 2. Now look at them. I think people are at lot less hype then people are making it out to be.
WoW retail is fricking dead and it says half the servers are full. Don't listen to a fricking word Blizzard says.
I'm not listening to Blizzard at all. There's just a sentiment that Wrath would have a giant influx of people due to it being a favorite expac for many but signs are just a continual downward trend after the tourists come by. I bet Blizzard will add in the 50% xp buff to be permanent before long just like they tried to do with SoM once the population dies.
its ridiculous opening group finder and being bombarded with RMT ads then you scroll down and get tons of
>YO BIG DICK DPS 250 ILVL MINIMUM
>person who made the group is in full blues and basically just looking for a carry
wow becoming p2w is sad, even classic had this problem because you could just buy gold then buy everything in gdkps.
>still haven't done anything about bots
>spend time putting in spyware to prevent you from typing "Black person"
I'm not paying subscription for below private server tier service
Report back in 1 month after all the content has been turbo cleared and the raiders are upset.
i hate minmaxxers so much it's unreal
Nobody is upset when they clear all the content for the older expansions, anon.
lol you didn't play classic, they wanted more stuff instantly like locusts.
>WoW wins again
>XIV loses
Feels
Fricking
Good
Battle for Azeroth Classic when?!