I'm glad you said TBC, I still think them making Kael'thas 100% evil and WORKING with the burning legion as the biggest frick up in WoW lore prior to Cata stuff.
>decide to play wow for the first time since BFA last year >go run TK for ashes >notice Kael'thas voice sounds off >look it up >voice actor depersoned and rerecorded all of his lines, even in old expansions >uninstall
>Kael'thas 100% evil and WORKING with the burning legion
This literally happens at the end of his campaign in TFT, dude. He, Illidan, and Maiev literally kneel and enter Kil'jaeden's service.
anon they were literally pretending to and TBC showed illidan and vashj were working to fight the legion but Kael'thas betrayed them and joined the legion for real.
>pretending
This is simply not true. There is literally nothing that points to this. The reason Illidan started fighting Legion again isn't because of altruism, or because he was against them ideologically, it was because he failed to kill the Lich King and was afraid of being punished for his failures. From his very first appearance in RoC, Illidan was always portrayed as a power-hungry, backstabbing loser with delusions of grandeur. He was never "cool". That's some weird fascination people developed because they were twelve when they played the campaign. Go back and replay Warcraft 3 once again. Just look at how he acts in the night elf campaign of TFT. He's literally doing a big demonic ritual and gloating with an evil voice "SOON MY MASTERS PLANS WILL BE COMPLETE AND I WILL BE RICHLY REWARDED". Illidan being a good guy was a moronic Legion retcon based on over a decade of fans misunderstanding his character and crying about how mistreated he was in TBC (he wasn't).
Frozen Throne was just an elaborate effort to establish WoW's starting races and zones. The whole Forsaken story is fricking bad and didn't make any sense yet it happened as well.
TBC was fricky from the get go. >Let's make Eradar Alliance >Let's make High Elves Horde >Outland is actually mostly forested and full of Grimorically Accurate Not-Angels >We also like The Dark Crystal > Illidan and Kael'Thas are both just raid bosses now > Basically ignored everyone who should have been in Outland > Leaving Garona for much later > Huge aesthetic shift and tone break
That xpac was mostly only good for instanced PVP. Karazan was the only worthwhile addition to the and that was because it should have been in Vanilla. Starting areas were fun too, I guess. Hellfire Basin was wasted on being the entry area.
And then in the next xpac you just kill the big bad of Warcraft 3. I mean getting to see and fight major characters is cool and all but they totally lost the charm of the Onyxia quest where you feel like the game world is bigger than you and the villagers actually cry in despair when they realize your clown armor wearing ass is their only hope for survival.
Instanced PVP specifically. Not minding Blizzard's habit of being bipolar when it comes to tuning classes, the new skills made instanced PVP more enjoyable. Even then the emphasis on arena versus team-based PVP wasn't smart and Arathi Basin was more or less busted for good for Horde.
TBC more or less killed world PVP. > World raids de incentivized by level cap with nothing to replace them > Flying mounts with no combat made it so you will basically never run into any sort of danger unless you want to (hurt PVE as well)
>Arenas
Yeah, what fricked and sucked the fun out of all class design for all future content.
But not to be just a screaming hater, what's to blame is Blizzard's urge to make everything an e-sport.
Arenas were a good addition. Making them the emphasis of PVP was really really dumb. Also could have tied in Dire Maul and Stranglethorn to make the experience more cohesive.
>Arenas
Yeah, what fricked and sucked the fun out of all class design for all future content.
But not to be just a screaming hater, what's to blame is Blizzard's urge to make everything an e-sport.
The first quest after you get to Oribos is Bolvar looking at the camera and saying "this guy has been talking to every Lich King from the beginning and all of us told him to frick off" and none of his plans got past Step 1 until Legion.
>Afterlife is like DBZ now, no ones ever really gone >Thanos rip off Jailer is behind everything since WC3 because Danuser watched Infinity War. >Titans are not the first creators >The Eternal ones are also robots made by the first gods because Danuser watched The Eternals. literally they didn't even change the fricking name. At least Jailer wasn't called Thaneos. >Nerubian architecture is copied from Maldraxxus >Dreadlords are actually triple agents >Frostmourne doesn't steal your soul but just splits your soul in 2 because the new writers forgot Uther's ghost already appeared in WoW.
You forgot >Jailer was actually the secret good guy all along and was working to help fortify the defense of this part of the realm against a random nebulous threat that's totally way worse than anything we've ever experiences in WoW to that point, but heretofore completely unmentioned.
IIRC the issue was Illidan was set up as the evil raid boss when he did LITERALLY NOTHING that was bad in Outland, it was all Kael'thas and the Naga lady. He just sat in Black Temple the whole time until we showed up while his minions did literally every evil thing in the expansion, then we beat him up.
Hell, wasn't that the whole fricking point of the Legion retcon, Blizzard catering to the entire fanbase who said Illidan did nothing wrong by making it so he legit did nothing wrong?
It's a shame they are too proud to admit that Uther has done literally nothing in the story to deserve any praise. They mostly half assed acknowledging that Thrall left a literal moron in charge of the Horde as well with zero training or oversight besides "lol Cairne might help you if he feels like it don't kill him tho thanks"
That was the big issue, on top of several retcons and characters suddenly huffing evil juice. Kel'thuzad in vanilla is at least an obvious evil figure, but the Illidan gang were just made into raid bosses for purples and Blizzard never really justified it. This is on top of turning Blood Elves into major prima donnas, Draenei being changed, and other weird choices that just didn't work.
>wow Black folk now >haha serves them right frick lore team >wow Black folk year from now >wtf why orkie mc ork doesn't act the say way he did in previous expansions???? where is the lore team????????
Since you wondered that just one year ago, was the lore team doing an acceptable job? Their continuity quality has been piss-poor or the story team itself has not been using their advice since it would hinder their own agendas.
The same lore team that made current Sylvanus and whatever the frickk ALL of shadowlands was?
Being fired is too good for them, they should be put to death.
>fire literally 99% of the morons that were keen on removing everything that happened in warcraft 3 and wow all the way to WOTLK >only metzen left as the one writing shit >wow becomes kino again
Anduin's Vulpera wife still weirds me out tbh. You just know they get up to some really fricked up shit in bed. It's weird that the Alliance is so open to having a Vulpera queen too.
Anduin's Vulpera wife still weirds me out tbh. You just know they get up to some really fricked up shit in bed. It's weird that the Alliance is so open to having a Vulpera queen too.
What the frick is a Vulpera?
Anthro foxes.
They're an allied Horde race added in Battle for Azeroth.
I haven't followed the lore in years, Anduin marries a fox?
I will take overusing corruption if we got villains like Garrosh again as a result. He was the definitive WoW villain made evil by corruption and he's also legit one of the best characters who was first created in WoW because he was corrupted not just by an evil god but his own ambitions and need to be the brutal savage warrior his father was.
corrupted garrosh was shit as corruption always is
But Garrosh WASN'T corrupted, people seem to forget that. The Old God wasn't able to control him, it was entirely his own ambitions that made him who he was.
[...]
But Garrosh WASN'T corrupted, people seem to forget that. The Old God wasn't able to control him, it was entirely his own ambitions that made him who he was.
Garrosh was corrupted by the ideals of Blackhand's Horde, whom many orcs in draenor never learned of the shit in shattrath and later azeroth when doomhammer failed to fix the damage.
Also everyone blaming him for what Grom did and the fact that no one ever learned of his redemption and sacrifice, on which he rejected The demonic poison in his veins for the son of the orc whom he saw as the non demonic horde's legacy and future free of their sins.
In fact, Garrosh himself is part of the old Horde's sins, and his own Pride and Ego led to his downfall.
If this was lets say: TES, Malacath would be torturing him for forgetting what a orc is.
>Also everyone blaming him for what Grom did and the fact that no one ever learned of his redemption and sacrifice, on which he rejected The demonic poison in his veins for the son of the orc whom he saw as the non demonic horde's legacy and future free of their sins.
But Garrosh ignored that part of Grom's story, all he saw was the great warrior that slaughtered his enemies. Because Garrosh was raised among the sick and weak in Orc society so he worshipped strength above all else. What he took from Grom's sacrifice was that he possessed the strength to fight off even demon corruption (that he himself willingly gave into but let's ignore that part)
Exactly, he literally ignored Everything Grom did and repeated the same Black persondry Blackhand and Gul'dan did.
He put everything the orcs went through in War 3 through the Trash Can because he grew on the shit that happened in the first two wars and not what happened when the legion finally showed up.
He even went on to torture the elements the same way Warlocks and Necrolytes did during the war under Gul'dan and the Shadow Council
I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Have you seen the moronic shit that modern Blizzard has pumped out since WoD? All the moronic retcons and new things? >Multiple timelines(but it's totally not a multiverse guies) >Illidan was a super secret good guy. Ignore the enslavement and attempted genocide. >Yogg and Cthun are dead. Ignore Yogg being active in Legions prepatch event quest. >There is not only 1 new secret Old God, but another SUPER secret one in this dagger. >Everything in Shadowlands. I don't want to write a novel here to explain why Shadowlands is shit. I quit the moment I freed Garrosh on heroic. Have not came back since. >Fur Affinity Dragons. This one ensured I would literally just not play WoW ever again.
WoW's timeline at this rate is different than the one in War 3, even Vanilla WoW map is different than the one in War 3 since there is no Nendis or Winterspring coast, and moonglade isn't located below hyjal and guarding the sntrance, but north.
Same goes to the Barrow's Deep Caverns and Timbermaw Hold
But then again, WoW we have now wasn't made alongside warcraft 3 since both teams at the fricking company weren't even interacting with each other post Pre-Alpha thanks to fricking Tom "Elmer Fudd" Chilton
3 months ago
Anonymous
>He put everything the orcs went through in War 3 through the Trash Can
tbf, I'd also want to ignore that my dad literally gave into demon corruption AGAIN because he was faced with a raid boss that was too hard so he cheated.
>n no you see he was corrupted by ideals!
That is not what people consider Corruption within most fantasy/sci fi media. It's gonna be corrupted by an outside force. Old Gods, aliens, AI, shit like that. Stuff that changes who you are for their own goals. Ideals are just a mortal thing. Garrosh did everything he did for his own goals. For his people.
It isn't corruption you gigantic moron
Garrosh was already born fricked up in the head thanks to the red pox.
He is literally Down Syndrome orc
Even doomhammer would murder his ass for sheer homosexualry.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>cata about to drop >lower tier quest designers go ham on the zones >no communication with the higher ups who design the grander part of the lore >this results in Garrosh being a total schizo, doing one thing and a complete opposite the moment after
3 months ago
Anonymous
COME to think of it, every fricking redpox survivor nagrand orc went to do fricked up shit during cata and mop, and all were schizos.
Did Kosak the OG sylvanas simp wanted to tell us something?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Garrosh is a based moron who kicked everyone's ass so hard that they had to team up against him like he is the fricking Burning Legion to take him down
3 months ago
Anonymous
Just Like Stalin, but Satan took him a way before that, after he read a letter calling him a homosexual.
3 months ago
Anonymous
he wasn't born fricked up, according to bronze dragonflight, we got the worst iteration of garrosh. Everywhere else he's more or less a hero to both sides. Thrall fucekd up, not him. You have it even in the books >thrall tells garrosh that he gonna be a warchief >garrosh refuses telling him he's a warrior not leader >ok dude you'll have zuljin and Cairne helping you >he asked above 2 guys AFTER asking garrosh >both of them more or less shitted at him
fast forward >people are dying on ogrimmar streets, capital is in shambles >tauren and troll chiefs told you to frick off >attempt to talk with nelves, poor attempt result in poor results >a lot of shit happnes
WOW WHY GARROSH TURNED HITLER WE ONLY ISOLATED HIM ON EVERY OCCASION AND REfUSED TO LEND HIM OUR WISDOM
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Everywhere else he's more or less a hero to both sides. Thrall fucekd up, not him. You have it even in the books
but in shadowlands we were told all souls are the collective of all their iterations across timelines and realities
so why did he go to revendreth if ours was the worst iteration while the others were heroic or better
3 months ago
Anonymous
shadowlands is not canon
also other iterations are quite posibly still alive
3 months ago
Anonymous
>shadowlands is not canon
it is anon, otherwise we wouldnt have the epilogue of this expansion
3 months ago
Anonymous
shadowlands is not canon, homosexualflight is a filler
practically, after legion every xpac is a fanfic of "what if"
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Make a big deal about Thrall losing his connection to the elements right after fighting Garrosh >The rest of WoD-start of SL he is unable to use shaman magic. >At somepoint in shadowlands you find him again and he randomly starts using his magic again. >He explains it was all in his head, he could always still call on the elements.
Meaning, he was so sad about Garrosh that he refused to help when Azeroth was almost destroyed multiple times, did not call on the elements to fight off an assassin who was by his home and family. All because he was sad q.q
I get they wanted to move away from Green Jesus, but making him a sad sack was moronic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
This could be easily rectified by having some vanilla Earthen Ring character you'd recognize walk up and go "actually it was because you used the elements to kill Garrosh in a duel and basically cheat. They were mad at you, so don't do that again."
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Tauren and troll chiefs told you to frick off
Gee maybe that's because Garrosh killed Banes father and tried to have Vuljin assassinated
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Garrosh killed Banes father
Wasn't his fault and Cairne was the one who challenged him
3 months ago
Anonymous
Magatha poisoned the weapons and she was on league with the old gods because the old b***h wanted power.
Bonus to the fact she also sounds like Maven Black-Briar even if it isn't Tyrande voicing her
3 months ago
Anonymous
Cairne called garrosha moron directly after thrall made him warchief and then went to Voljin and Cairne to ask them to help him, basically lying to garrosh
before Garrosh sended assasins after Voljin, he said that he gonna slice garrosh throat over a simple argument
3 months ago
Anonymous
Garrosh killed Cairne after Cairne demanded that Garrosh give up the mantle because he thought the twilight hammer was actually Garrosh randomly killing druids so they had a duel for it. Then he died like a b***h because of Magatha and Garrosh was so disgusted by her he left her to die instead of helping her take over the tauren.
Meanwhile Voljin walked up to Garrosh threatened to assassinate him to his face and then got asspained when it made Garrosh kick the trolls out.
and still Gayrossh had zero arguments to defend himself since he was a red pox moron
3 months ago
Anonymous
trial at the 'warcrimes" already shown everyone that they were part of the problem and garrosh was not a cause but result of their actions
every single racial leader got questioned there
3 months ago
Anonymous
which is also true
Varian being a hot headed moron in wrath
Jaina not being present in Icecrown as Muradin and Letting herself go mad with Daelin living rent free in her head thanks to Arcane radiation
Moira Being a b***h and not letting her pass go after all that happened to her father.
Vol'jin not admitting his mistakes.
Lor'Themar and most of the horde leaders not acting like proper allied leaders
Sylvanas being a Hypocrite b***h who instead of finding the cure as she and the apothecaries were doing back in Vanilla, had a woman moment and embraced undeath and fell for the Val'kyr's lies.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Garrosh killed Cairne after Cairne demanded that Garrosh give up the mantle because he thought the twilight hammer was actually Garrosh randomly killing druids so they had a duel for it. Then he died like a b***h because of Magatha and Garrosh was so disgusted by her he left her to die instead of helping her take over the tauren.
Meanwhile Voljin walked up to Garrosh threatened to assassinate him to his face and then got asspained when it made Garrosh kick the trolls out.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Then he died like a b***h because of Magatha
Yeah, Cairne was going to win that fight but he got nicked at the last second by poison on Garrosh's axe
>expansions are now 1 - 2 patches long >blizztard attempts to shove as much shit into the story line as possible >have to start a new story line every year instead of every 2 - 3 years >metzen responsible for the moronic time travel mutliuniverse garbage
it's unironically over
>Wrath the peak of wow >first tier >Reused raid and two one room raids >third tier >literally filler content
Yeah I would rather have 3 good raid tiers than whatever the frick they did with wrath
blood elves and goblins already existed in classic. Give alliance.... uh. Gilneas as a human variant not as furries and whatever those flying dwarf clan guys are called as a variant.
I miss the duality of the BC races. >both races clawing their way back from the brink of total annihilation >one race looks like demon spawns, but is full of empathy and piety >the other looks like peak purity, but is a opportunistic cutthroat police state
Didn't even last for the whole expac before bloodelves got ruined and Draenei got left in the dust for horse wiener memes.
id search for it too if I know how many deranged c**ts work/worked at Blizzard who'd concoct a rape story about me just to get their 15 minutes of fame
just not frick up the way he did, which was a certified boomer moment
But we made so much social progress with Dragonflight.. It’ll be so shameful if we go back to stories about pointless war mongering after an expansion with powerful storylines about gay centaurs and wheelchair dragons. What’s even worse is that they will probably not be so hard on their programmers and engineers, which will rekindle the ableist practices we had moved away from since 2014.
This is really heckin problematic, what are we going to do dragonflightsisters?
This is a good thing, but the playerbase is the biggest issue >frick the lore, I want every race to be any class and the classes can do everything!
Blizz listens to these morons too
>I need new ideas people! We killed off the old gods and the titans have fricked up, so where do we go next? >what if we made Anduin an actual bad guy seeing as he's already white and male?
Would they fire the troony in this case or promote them? Based on the answer we'll know if WoW lore is truly dead.
Can’t believe this was actually a thing. Just have the concept artists & character modellers come up with something to retroactively justify the designs
Any massive story property should have a lore keeper if you have any care about attention to detail and continuity. Modern writing is so shit now because they can't stay consistent between games and movies.
wrong, a lot of writing would be better if they at least adhered to the lore, you can't even immerse in modern writing now because retcons and straight up forgetting / lack of care makes all developments useless
>Any massive story property should have a lore keeper if you have any care about attention to detail and continuity. Modern writing is so shit now because they can't stay consistent between games and movies.
And yet Blizzard has just retconned everything willy-nilly for over 15 years DESPITE having the lore keeper.
Almost as if their job was a waste of time and money.
These people don't give a shit about the lorekeepers, that's why it's funny. Rings of Power, for example, is notorious for having lorekeepers and telling them they don't care when they frick things up. They have "lorekeepers" for marketing.
Notice how every game company employees getting layed off have all been pozzed homosexuals? Especially Riot, where the known employees have all been the ones that made the game ridiculously pozzed.
what fricking lore team? the same ones who rewrote characters as they wanted to and lied about passed events or outright retconned them to fit into thier new "friendly happy WoW" world? this actually is a good thing then, go full scorched earth
nah WoW has way to many people who buy it every year still. streamers and their horde alone buy just to b***h about it. FF atleast knew when to nuke its bad story and when to finish it. they are also doing an engine update as well as adding new classes still. WoW needs a fricking reboot.
It unironically did, just coming off one of the most hype Fanfests and giving the fans exactly what they want for the game in Dawntrail to then hear that WoW is fricked with their entire staff being gutted just as they wanted to try narrative story arc telling.
Remember WoWgays, you did this for years when other mmos failed you went into their threads, their discussion places and gloated. Now it's your turn.
>one of the most hype Fanfests
How? Nothing looked that appealing. The trailers were mediocre and the song was probably the worst in the games history. The graphics update is so far looking like a nothingburger, with the hair being less pixelated being the only highlight. If you're a furry maybe the female Hrothgar would have been a highlight if they weren't being voiced by an actual literal troony.
XIV is shit, saying that as someone who unsubbed a couple of months ago, picking the game about 2 years ago when wow went down the shitter.
It plays like shit.
It takes months to get to the endgame.
But then you find out the endgame sucks ass and you should have enjoyed the leveling more since that's the main content.
But then you realize it's just walking between purple swirls on the ground and watch mostly unvoiced cutscenes.
So then you realize the actual endgame is to get a gay ass glam and either stand around in Limsa, or go to someone's paypig house aka club and do the ERP there.
I'm not here to defend wow you coombrained mongoloid.
All you trannies boasting with XIV like it's some masterpiece should frick off immediately, you're only relying on the fact that most people haven't played it and therefore don't know how shit it is.
I'm all for everyone to give XIV a try, at least then, they can all see for themselves how much disingenuous liars you are.
>most hype Fanfests >giving the fans exactly what they want
lol, lmao even
The setting is bland, the stakes are low, Wuk Lamat's American troony voice is fricking terrible, the Scions are still in the story even though there's little reason for it, the cinematic trailer was the most disappointing and uninteresting one since Stormblood, Cosmic Exploration likely means everyone should just abandon their Island Sanctuary and let it go to waste, and so on.
I'm still going to play it, but it's mostly because I'm in the habit of playing FFXIV, rather than being actually excited for it. Maybe the Job Action trailer will be interesting, but I doubt it.
How fricking dogshit is your reading comprehension, dumbass? I already play FFXIV, and nothing in my post referenced high stakes.
Things obviously need to be scaled back following EW, as going to the edge of the universe to fight the embodiment of despair after killing the two main Gods of your own world is pretty difficult to escalate from, but a vacation to a shitty place like South America with uninteresting characters doesn't instill much excitement.
Why do you think End of the World level stakes makes for a good adventure? It's boring and overplayed, it's Avengers Endgame all over again Marvel tier shit.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Do you literally not understand that there are options between "End of the World" and "stupid vacation to shithole location"?
3 months ago
Anonymous
You definitely did not watch any of the fanfest reveals if that is what you still think Dawntrail is.
We're off to Solution 9 while WoW gays are still stuck playing the same game over and over and over because everything new they try fricks their game up even more.
Yeah I mean just for story. Everyone always talks about how SB is the worst part of the story but with EW fully released at this point, EW takes that title without question.
The actual content in EW is dogshit too. They've gotten way too comfortable, hopefully Dawntrail shakes up their formula a bit but I doubt it.
>s there any MMORPG worth playing for the story?
Honestly, GW2 had pretty good story until they went full moron mode and killed the game, besides that only FF14 is above average
>GW2 had pretty good story until they went full moron mode and killed the game
nah, not really
GW2 story was at best serviceable and at worst trash, and then they just went balls to the walls with the gay shit because of course they would, but even before that, it wasn't very good. The exploration was fine, but the story was always kinda dookie
>GW2 had a pretty good story >queue four hours on historic human clay listening to a complex issue being dumbed down into racists are bad and not racists move on. >Followed by being asked which variant of fur I want to go fricking help. >preceded by hours of YA-tier not-drama and boring ass plot-beats where the only interesting thing is big Norn lady but the world is so fricking sterile that the only sexuality allowed is homosexuality.
Unironically SWTOR.
Some of the class stories are meh, most of them are pretty good, one or two of them are fantastic. The first post release expansion starts off as absolute dogshit but they quckly got their shit together and everything after ranges from okay to "holy shit this is so good they should just adapt this into a movie and make billions".
FF14 has the best story told in an MMO but there is so much fricking padding and long expositional dump dialog sequences that it's not really worth it to play through the 400 or so hours it takes to get through all of it. It's real feast or famine with that, lots of great moments followed by multiple hour long stretches of nonsense. SWTOR doesn't really have this issue.
No way?! Magic weapons and artifacts in fricking Azeroth? How stupid is blizzard?! Thank god we have big moronic Black person anon showing us the right way
Frick you
Wow anon you're telling me the artifacts and magic weapons we found in this world filled with artifacts and magic weapons don't make sense to your tiny black brain?
Make a real argument you stupid Black person.
what is aid, is that from various weapons or other items of power referenced from wc to wow, they made a lot of ones never ever referenced before, like fury warrior dual swords, where you could use a lot of other weapons in that place
but it's understandable, when they had Grommash and Lothar at the first iteration of Vallaryar or what was that zone where warrior go after dying, and then removed it
but i understand, you have nostalgia for legion, know no shit about what bullshit methzen was pulling with his green jesus always right stuff, and your maina rgument is calling someone macroBlack person on anonymous board, demoanding argument while not being able to respond to one already made
nta, but I think he's talking about some weapons being actual legendary items that had been in the lore for ages like the Ashbringer, Felo'melorn, the Doomhammer, or the Scythe of Elune, and some that were just conjured up on the spot for the express purpose of being an artifact like the Warswords of the Valarjar or Light's Wrath.
>Literally the story and lore were only good in legion
Half the reason for that is it picked up many of the loose ends from vanilla. It shouldn't have taken that long to confront Xavius.
Legion's story was really not very good and people need to stop pretending that it was. We didn't play Legion because it had a good story, we played Legion because it was actually fun to play.
You're forgetting that the Maw of Souls grind only really started in earnest like 3 months into the expansion, after we did all other content but needed more AP.
>Random legendaries >Personal loot only from raids
Frick Legion and frick you. I spent 4 weeks trying to get a single set piece from ToS and didn't get dick and that's when I gave up.
Entitled obsessed c**ts like you are the problem. The legendaries were ruined immediately after all the rng was removed.
You're the kind of a guy who'd rather bosses drop some currency so you can buy items and get everything you want? You're the problem.
>and was only well received because it followed WoD.
Yes, god forbid an expansion actually decides to give us a reason to leave our garrison, gives back core abilities after so many were taken away, made classes fun again, and introduced a new class that while it was moronicly overpowered, was legitimately fun to play.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>reason to leave the garrison >every "reason" is just a lever that you pull praying you don't get the wrong legendary
Nope. Legion wasn't "good" until the end.
3 months ago
Anonymous
No one was actively doing content going "oh I hope THIS mob is the one that drops my legendary". No it was just something that happened while you did content because no mob had a higher chance of dropping one than any other.
Shit if you're going to talk about grind, at least use a legit complaint like how tedious those Nightfallen dailies were.
3 months ago
Anonymous
If you wanted to play fire mage you were
Overall I wasn't unhappy with Legion legendaries but when your best spec is dependant on a legendary it felt bad
3 months ago
Anonymous
Fire Mage was afaik the only spec that was actually, legitimately 100% dependent on having that damn legendary to simply play at all. The other classes the legendary was there to make you more optimal in raid parses but you didn't actually NEED the damn thing just to play the class.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>doing X hoping for legendary
No, I didn't do this, I was: >doing X hoping I don't get a Sephuz because I have limited chances before my character is locked out of legendary drops
Then there was other moronic shit like a BiS trinket coming from a world boss, AP's initial implementation was ridiculous, and titanforging was still dumb, I had an LFR Ursoc trinket that was only a few ilvls below Mythic. M+ was a mixed bag because it completely changed how PvE progression works, and the implementation in future expansions was never as good as it was in Legion. The expansion is propped up by the content being good, but it was the start of Blizzard being stubborn as frick with creating and standing by obviously awful systems, and that attitude would persist until the middle of SL, but imo it was already too late to course correct.
>he doesn't know WoW: Classic was 4 years ago >he doesn't know Legion was 8 years ago >he doesn't know WoD (and the model update) was 10 years ago >he doesn't know MoP was 12 years ago >he doesn't know Cata was 14 years ago >he doesn't know WotLK was 16 years ago >he doesn't know TBC was 17 years ago >he doesn't know Vanilla was 20 years ago
They had dogshit consistency WITH historians on staff. Lay the useless fricks off. Red Shirt Guys do it for free and embarrass them. Can't believe they plan to have Arathi humans underground, lol.
except the og team was actually listening to him pointing out shits
they even made him an NPC in ironforge next to magni, explaining shit to player character, something like fact checker with red shirt ona dwarf
WoW lore is meaningless after WoTLK and felt like 90% of the lore after Wrath was tacky "And then this happened, but then this happened, and then this happened"
WoW should have ended at Wrath, then Blizzard would develop Warcraft 4 or something and conclude the Burning Legion plotline there, and then we get a WoW 2 on a new engine based on whatever lore Warcraft 4 introduced.
Nice to see that reading comprehension Nobody was praising WoTLK or calling it the pinnacle of WoW, redditor. Reread
WoW lore is meaningless after WoTLK and felt like 90% of the lore after Wrath was tacky "And then this happened, but then this happened, and then this happened"
WoW should have ended at Wrath, then Blizzard would develop Warcraft 4 or something and conclude the Burning Legion plotline there, and then we get a WoW 2 on a new engine based on whatever lore Warcraft 4 introduced.
very, very slowly.
Wrath marked the last WoW iteration that followed the coherent storyline that started with the RTSes. Cata and onwards are almost entirely "but then this happened, but then that happened, but then this happens" and side tangents turned into Expansions "Hey, remember that Panda man? Let's make an entire expansion about his home that has literally nothing to do with the Burning Legion/Scourge plotline of WC3/WoW
Deathwing literally predates Arthas you stupid zoomer
The only random occurrence was Pandaria being found, which again was already known location. WoD was a product of Wrathions planning to unite Azeroth to stand against the Legion, Legion happened because of AU Guldan being flung through the dark portal and BFA happened from fallout during Legion + Azsharas ongoing scheming
Meanwhile TBC->Wrath had no relation. One day Arthas just decided to get off his chair and fight again so new expac time.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Deathwing literally predates Arthas you stupid zoomer
And Deathwing was never a central plot point in any Warcraft strategy game whilst Arthas is one of the central characters of Warcraft 3 which was the foundation for WoW, TBC and WoTLK. Imagine if, three books into the Lord of the Rings trilogy, there was immediately a sequel that threw Frodo and the rest of the cast into some tacked on adventure over some flavor text. That's what Cataclysm was, and most WoW expansions after that point was essentially that. Tacked on garbage that has little to do with what was established in the RTSes.
And what the hell do you mean TBC -> Wrath had no relation? The Legion and the Scourge are the two biggest enemies that the RTS games established. It made SENSE that after TBC, we had a Northrend expansion pack, because that's the established lore.
Cata is a "but then THIS happened" side tangent turned into an expansion that shifts to an entirely different villain than what was built up in the RTSes, WoW, TBC and Wrath. MoP is a side tangent based based on creating the lore of a one-off character which has nothing to do with the Legion/Scourge story of WoW. Warlords of a Draenor is just "What if THIS happened instead, in another timelime". I quit after WoD but I still learn a bit of the stories and premises of other WoW expansions from friends but Legion is quite literally the only WoW expansion post-Wrath that actually advances... the Warcraft story established in the 1990s and 2010s.
Wrath of the Lich King was literally the perfect thematic ending point for WoW. WoW could have ended there, made Warcraft 4 to deal with the Burning Legion, and then go all out with whatever shitty fanfiction they wanted for WoW 2 after that.
>-oomer
Underage shitstain buzzword.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>And what the hell do you mean TBC -> Wrath had no relation? The Legion and the Scourge are the two biggest enemies that the RTS games established. It made SENSE that after TBC, we had a Northrend expansion pack, because that's the established lore.
There is absolutely no connection between KJ losing at Sunwell and Arthas getting off his throne. None. It's the very definition of " and then this happened" because Arthas was sitting silently since the end of TFT until the start of Wrath >Cata is a "but then THIS happened" side tangent
Cata was not random, the twilight flight and twilight cult had been running for a while. It's a build up, not a tangent, and it built up to Deathwings cataclysm. It's also a continuation of the black dragonflight story, which is actually the cornerstone of classic wow, not gays like Illidan who was barely alluded to in vanilla. >MoP is a side tangent based based on creating the lore of a one-off character which has nothing to do with the Legion/Scourge story of WoW.
MoP was about Wrathions planning to end the alliance horde war once and for all so Azeroth would be a united front against the Legion, you obviously don't even know what you're talking about you subhuman wrathbaby
>Wrath of the Lich King was literally the perfect thematic ending point for WoW
Actually play WC1/2 before speaking again zoomer. Wrath didn't end anything because Arthas was only 1 pawn of the Legion and pivoting away from the massively popular MMO back to an RTS is so mind-bogglingly moronic I can only assume your parents dropped you on your head constantly as a baby
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Cata was not random, the twilight flight and twilight cult had been running for a while
If the expansion after Wrath was about Hogger taking over Stormwind you'd unironically eat it up because it was "built up" even though it had nothing to do with the main lore of the RTS games leading into the first three WoW expansions.
>MoP was about fanfiction character introduced in fanfiction expansion
Great post.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Arthas wasn't in WC1 and they made massive retcons to force WC3 in. He's literally fanfiction.
Dragons are not fanfiction, as they predate Arthas.
3 months ago
Anonymous
There is. You have it even in vanilla in flavor text. In SWp patch you have people at sunwell talking about how scourge is becoming restless again and how its getting ahrder and ahrder to fight them off
as per cata, it was also referenced. You had twilight cultist since classic and in ulduar. Jsut whole xpac was butchered by methzen moronic writting and absurdly bad last raid tier. Well, even in classic you have random npc joking about deathwing bursting out of the maelstorm
3 months ago
Anonymous
>You have it even in vanilla in flavor text. In SWp patch you have people at sunwell talking about how scourge is becoming restless again and how its getting ahrder and ahrder to fight them off
This is just NPCs commenting on "thing happening" it does not establish causality
If say, KT finished reforming in his phylactery then woke Arthas up it would kinda justify it (aside from the gapping plot hole of not destroying his phylactery)
Twilight Cult was shown actively doing things to raise the twilight flight, cult of the damned was not shown doing anything to get Arthas up and running that is the difference
3 months ago
Anonymous
wotlk was the start of the moronic idea of pre-xpac story happening in the books
for wotlk, not only prepatch, but arthas awakening was followed by attack on horde and alliance capitals with frostwyrms. Similiar to how garrosh WoD setup was all in the books
3 months ago
Anonymous
The issue is WHY Arthas woke up.
The real answer is because they wanted to do an Arthas expac, but in universe it was just coincidental in the same way finding pandaria was just coincidental
For other expansions, we have a clearer cause and effect relationship. Wrathion and Kaizdormu caused WoD, AU Guldan caused Legion, Sargeras and Sylvanas caused BFA and Sylvanas caused Shadowlands
MoP and Dragonflight are the weakest because it's just us randomly finding these islands when their magical cloaking drops. MoP at least the continent is totally irrelevant and just a backdrop to political warfare but dragonflight is pretty bad trying to make this randomly appearing island feel relevant by linking it back to the established content(timeways and emerald dream)
TBC and Cata were some known players making moves for a while offscreen. They were offscreen but ACTIVE so it makes sense things would advance
The scourge was active....in the plaguelands. Arthas himself was doing nothing and continued doing nothing until blizzard wanted to use him to sell an expac
3 months ago
Anonymous
And they sold 2 shitty books about it ruining his character thanks to Christopher Goldbergstein
what the frick has the lore team been doing for over a decade? that's right, fricking up the game
is one of them your uncle? why do you give a damn about some purple haired they/them who put androgynous drag queen lizardmen in the game?
>Lore team then: Metzen and some other people from other departments giving ideas. >Lore team since Metzen left: Several professional writers and several narrative designers.
People completely hate and loathe everything made after Metzen left. Why? Because before we knew it was just a dude doing whatever he wanted. People did not care it was bad. After, it was just straight up sheer incompetence to have an entire team of people dedicated to something that became worse year after year.
pls no, leave SC2 alone, the game is in a good state now and it's staying that way specifically because Blizzard doesn't pay attention to it at all. Would I have liked a couple more coop commanders? Sure but the ones we did get were good and we got like 18 of them.
SC2 campaign and story will never get unfricked though. You're talking purely multiplayer balance issues which is a niche concern for competitive RTS players only.
Starcraft 1 or Warcraft 3 wouldn't have been as big as they were without the campaigns or the story. Multiplayer-gameplay only gays will never understand this fact.
3 months ago
Anonymous
And was the WC3 crowd sticking around for years and years after the fact because they were playing campaign over and over? No if anything the thing that kept WC3 relevant long after it stopped mattering was DOTA matches.
3 months ago
Anonymous
and, you know, custom campaigns
3 months ago
Anonymous
Custom campaigns no. Custom maps, yes. And last I checked, shit like Mafia Wars, Angel Arena, Battleships, and DBZ Tribute are not exactly WC3's story. I enjoyed that era, I wish I was still in it, but what kept us around was retooling the game to play modes it never was originally intended for.
The multiplayer was literally built on the back of the campaign. They compliment each other. People played WC3 for the campaign first, loved it, and stayed for the multiplayer.
This is why I said you don't understand why campaigns and story context in an RTS are important.
>This is why I said you don't understand why campaigns and story context in an RTS are important.
They're only important to initially bring people in, they're not going to keep people years later.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>They're only important to initially bring people in
Right, that's a huge aspect to the success of a game and that was my point.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The multiplayer was literally built on the back of the campaign. They compliment each other. People played WC3 for the campaign first, loved it, and stayed for the multiplayer.
This is why I said you don't understand why campaigns and story context in an RTS are important.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Except that custom games were more popular than actually playing the rts, so the campaign had absolutely nothing to do with that
People were playing dota because they like dota, not because of the wc3 campaign that was nothing like dota. Hence why now dota is still alive and wc3 is dead
3 months ago
Anonymous
see
>They're only important to initially bring people in
Right, that's a huge aspect to the success of a game and that was my point.
Custom games would have never taken off if there weren't people initially drawn to the game by the campaign
3 months ago
Anonymous
This is demonstrably false because LoL and DotA 2 took off for tens of millions of people who never touched WC3
People can and did pick up the game just for custom games with their friends.
3 months ago
Anonymous
> LoL and DotA 2
Yes but those aren't RTS games. >People can and did pick up the game just for custom games with their friends.
Literally much later after the game was already successful and there were custom games made by the people who initially picked up the game you idiot. This revisionist history by multiplayer only NPCs is not going to change the fact that WC3 became what it is thanks to the campaign existing.
I want them to ignore literally everything that ever happened in Warcraft prior to this moment in time and just make a completely fresh new game with orcs and humans in it. Just call the game Warcraft.
The wow lore team tripled in recent year all pozzed gays why do people keep trying to spin these based decisions as bad? The wow lore team was small as shit back in classic with a tight focused team of men.
Burning Crusade was when Metzen decided to just flip the whole Eredar and Sageras plot for no reason. An entire universe full of new things he could invent and he just decided to dig up the foundation already built. He just doubled down after the backlash and decided all wc3 lore didn't matter.
Its actually amazing how they managed to grind a company which was essentially a seal of quality to dust.
You actually need to be an incredibly shit human being if you are this good at ruining good things.
Its literally too late. They should all have been fired after TBC/WotLK and then retconned it all with a WC4 release and WoW2, but instead we got something as lazy as fricking cata, panda, blonde orc cumdumpster vs menstrual corpse rodeo and shitlands.
Boy, if you thought WoW's development was already a messing revolving door, you ain't seen fricking nothing yet from Microsoft's addiction to hiring contractors that can't unionize. The game has been shambling along with leprosy since Activision bought it but what you're hearing is the sound of Microsoft snapping its neck.
And now that place got burned to a crisp by some dindu. I'm glad i ditched the game in WoD because they basically figuratively and literally raped all the night elf zones and lore in general under danuser. Good fricking riddance.
>Blizzcon is literally just sending Metzen out there to talk about his ideas for twenty minutes and about he has a plan and how he's three expansions ahead >People here were going apeshit salivating over Metzen and calling him their savior
I thought WoW players were shitting on Metzen by the end of his first tenure at Blizzard?
What part of "you don't know what you had until it's gone" do you motherfrickers not understand? That as dumb as Metzen's ideas were, they were dumb from the perspective of a nerd who spent too much time staring at 80s metal album covers and imagining a backstory behind the drawing, instead of what we have now.
Yeah, I for one will take “never ending cycles of corruption and redemption and then more corruption” over “gay, non-binary dragons in wheel chairs in a universe where they can heal any non-fatal injury” any day
healing permanent disabilities is usually impossible or requires some pretty serious magic in these kinds of settings, like unironically might be easier to steel an abled body or force yourself to reincarnate than to heal your twisted up moron body
Shut the frick up you megatard fangoober.
Everyone was shitting on Metzen back then even. I clearly remember how Thrall was memed to oblivion by even the biggest normalgays, and it was widely known that he was a burned out hack, still lingering on his WC3 days, as all people do is repost his drawings from back there. Its a completely different person from what he used to be.
Do you know why this metzen shit is happenning? Because it turned out not even trannies want that crap blizzard churned out with Chorogonslop. This is why you have like 4 versions of classic, because nostalgiagays are the main audience again. Retail is completely obliterated now, only played by roleplayers and le professionels payed by blizzard. The rest of idiots are Asmon-esque collectorgays who pay "pros" to clear the content for them.
If these people actually gave two fricks about the game, they would never under any fricking circumstance would give any goddamn bread crumble to tigole back then. When that happened that israeli mofo fired numerous people DURING vanilla development and replaced them with his poopsock friends. TBC comes around and guess what? The content sucks, 60 to 70 is a slog. The zones are atroicious, the story does not make any sense, raiding is praised by now 40+ Gen x fricks like preach, as classic proved it how atrociously bad it actually was and everything else was nostalgia.
>as classic proved it how atrociously bad it actually was
Then why is it far, far more popular than anything they've released for the last several expansion?
Metzen was probably a death-blow in and of himself since his reintroduction and long-term plan fricked whatever Dragonlands might have been moving towards. Switching from one flavor of food poisoning to another, I know, but with his tenure at WoW already previously maligned as some of the worst storytelling in the game I imagine he wasn't welcome to anybody except people desperate to get WoW "back on track" to a previously established standard of mediocrity.
They fired people that were doing nothing. Good. >immediately after Blizzard has committed to better storytelling is pretty tone-deaf
Funnily enough, that statement is tone-deaf when it equates to saying >we know we haven't been doing our jobs for over 10 years but we'll definitely start doing it now
That was one expansion, Cataclysm, and most people consider it one of the worst expansions. >Vanilla
You wouldn't even know that the Alliance and Horde are hostile to each other because they're so busy dealing with problems in their own backyard to pay attention to the other side >TBC
They aren't on the same side but both are more focused on the Outland threat >Wrath
They might as well be on the same side, the real start of the "Alliance and Horde team up every other expansion" meme >Cata
This was the actual start of the PUTTING THE "WAR" BACK IN WARCRAFT meme. And it sucked.
he was obviously corrupted, everyone was making fun of the writers on twitter so they retconned him not really being corrupted
>he was obviously corrupted
But not by an evil god. His corruption was entirely internal, he idolized a brutal savage and felt that that was the only TRUE way to be an orc.
>come up with a counter argument >or just take their argument and put "hurr" in front of it
Based but Garrosh canonically was not corrupted at all by the remains of Y'sharraj and was simply always moronic.
>hurr
I'm sorry Anon but canonically, he was not corrupted by Y'sharraj and the devs then explicitly confirmed this themselves.
You're free to shit on the writers as much as you want, I do to, but I'm just stating a fact.
3 months ago
Anonymous
he’s corrupted in game, later tweets said he wasn’t corrupted, if it’s not in the game it’s not cannon
3 months ago
Anonymous
>he’s corrupted in game
post proof that isn't you making an inference.
3 months ago
Anonymous
he’s obviously corrupted and his tentacle model is called GarroshCorrupted which made everyone kek at the bad writing as soon as it hit the ptr
>wow Historian
what the frick do you even do after you get laid off and the only thing you ever knew was some fricking game lore. Learn to code? holy frick good luck Black person that ship has sailed 10 years ago. Theres 500 applications to any single position and 90% of them are fake listings for the company to show good numbers to stakeholders. Not to mention you are now competing with thousands of other people who have been suddenly laid off for that sweet burger flipping position along with the infinite imports of mystery meat. Holy frick how is shit so fricked up yet so calm.
You list yourself as a game writer which is still a good position to be in at another company, provided you aren't second-guessed every five seconds. What're you doing, dude? They're bad at their job (WoW writing is appalling and always has been) but it's a fancy, fellating way of saying they write for the game.
>and the only thing you ever knew was some fricking game lore.
Presumably the experience from working within the company, oversight, managing and reviewing the work of the other team members and directly collaborating them.
It's obviously all bullshit since this is Blizzard but if they were actually doing work, you could easily apply that knowledge to plenty of other corporate positions.
WoW lore has been fricked since AT LEAST the end of wotlk. I also subscribe to the view that the warcraft lore was fricked from the moment they decided to make it an mmorpg as well.
WoW could never portray war because the game was never set up for it. No, ganking low level players is not "war". Here's how you do it:
>The Barrens and Ashenvale are now the endgame where players go on patrols, do objectives for honour, build, maintain, and destroy each other's towns and encampments, and anything else. The zones are also fricking humongous >The major cities are now almost entire player run and managed
Please forgive him he's been crying about SJWs in the game's developers for years and now has no idea what to do now that they're provably gone. And he's paid no attention to the actual fricking feds at the company's top
Ok but having neat lore doesn't address the fact that the game hasn't been fun to PLAY for a long time. I say this as someone that actually liked Legion as it was current content and not just in hindsight, Legion was the last time the game was actually fun for people (they just didn't like the grind involved in it), because the Artifact weapons gave them lots of fun buttons to press and they haven't had those buttons since.
WoW lore doesn't matter at all. Blizzard could just recon everything, go back to orcs vs humans or the return-return of the lich king where everyone if fighting against the scourge again, and literally no one except a few schizos would care
Custom maps were literally just free games back then. The world no longer has a use for them because plenty of actual real free games are out there. Why play a custom map when you can just play League, CS2, PUBG, Fortnite, and so on?
Unironically because the standalone free games tend to suffer from extreme feature creep in a way the old maps didn't due to limitations on how much shit you can put into a single map.
>They're only important to initially bring people in
Right, that's a huge aspect to the success of a game and that was my point.
Then why does that matter with SC2? Everyone already bought it long ago, and if they didn't it's free now. You're already in, what's there now is multiplayer which is the currently relevant part.
Who the frick cares what 13 year olds think, they don't even play the RTS genre to begin with. Literally only millenials and Gen X plays those kinds of games. That group of teens up all night playing WC3 custom maps back in the day are all closing in on being 40. I should know, I was part of that group and I'm 37 now.
>Who the frick cares what 13 year olds think, they don't even play the RTS genre to begin with
An awful lot of people I know that played WC3 played it when they were teenagers.
Yeah, and how old are they now?
The part I'm focusing on that you seem to be missing is that the teenagers of the late 90s to early 2000s were not the same kind of people as the teenagers of now. You're acting like the dad giving his kid Super Mario on NES and going "well I liked it as a kid so obviously you will too!"
3 months ago
Anonymous
How many teenagers played RTS before WC3 was made? Why in the frick would you ever base your development decisions off this shit?
>Then why does that matter with SC2
Wings of Liberty campaign was actually alright. Also Blizzard product sells of the brand name nowadays. The quality of the product doesn't matter, see Diablo 4.
the jailer was actually controlled by the elementals who are the real evil guys!
but the elementals were controlled by the titans who are the real evil guys!
but the titans were controlled by the ancients who are the real evil guys!
but the ancients were controlled by the Precursors™ who are the real evil guys!
>lore team
I'm appalled that any of these people still had a job after Shadowlands to begin with.
Imagine actually paying someone to come up with that shit.
I think it'll depend on the staff that remains at Blizzard after the cuts but it's probably a safe bet. The whole company is probably infested with that kind of ideological rot at the very root.
I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Have you seen the moronic shit that modern Blizzard has pumped out since WoD? All the moronic retcons and new things? >Multiple timelines(but it's totally not a multiverse guies) >Illidan was a super secret good guy. Ignore the enslavement and attempted genocide. >Yogg and Cthun are dead. Ignore Yogg being active in Legions prepatch event quest. >There is not only 1 new secret Old God, but another SUPER secret one in this dagger. >Everything in Shadowlands. I don't want to write a novel here to explain why Shadowlands is shit. I quit the moment I freed Garrosh on heroic. Have not came back since. >Fur Affinity Dragons. This one ensured I would literally just not play WoW ever again.
They only fired red shirt guy kind of people every main writer that's responsible for what you mentioned either didn't update their linkedin/xitter or is still on the team
Yeah everyone's celebrating like the lore should now be fixed, but it was likely the last few white neckbearded dudes who actually gave a shit and told Danuser to go easier on the waifugayging.
Meanwhile all the brown strippers and trannies likely stayed so they could shove more gay centaurs and gay frogs in the game and come up with a way to make established characters gays and troons.
M+ is fricking moronic.
No, I DON'T want to run the same handful of 5 mans over and over again with increasing numbers and various buffs to mobs and/or debuffs to the player, while being on a timer. All that for a chance at a single piece of loot at the end. Allowing them to give gear better than most raid gear was a mistake. Sometimes even BiS comes from these places. Everything about it feels designed to keep up engagement metrics instead of fun.
The things that were wrong with Wrath are things that were wrong with the franchise. Dungeon finder, flying mounts, etc. It had god-tier story, amazing zones, fantastic raids and events.
>God tier story
Lmfao >amazing zones
Empty and worthless since you just raidlog >fantastic raids
Classic debunked this >and events
What event, fricking jousting? That vehicle dogshit?
>lmfao
If you weren't a zoomer frick, then yes, the conclusion to Arthas's story was hype for fans >muh raiding
Confirmed homosexual. The zones themselves were a massive step up from anything anyone had ever seen. >muh classic
A bunch of burnouts returning to raids that they did a million times before don't find them fresh? What a shock. Classic was a mistake. You can't recapture those moments, they're gone. >hurdur what event???
Undead invasion, Battle for Undercity, etc.
>some fans were hype
gays were hype for GoT ending too that doesn't make it good. Wrsths story was atrocious >Doesn't raid
Oh I see you're just a shitter. No wonder you can't actually talk about the game like a real human >Classic doesn't count
Absolute cope, the game sucked and classic outted it as sucking. You're coping on nostalgia while reality is right here >undead invasion
Lasted a few days before it was turned off >battle for undercity
A shitty questline that was babys first taste of phasing
3 months ago
Anonymous
>started WoW in 2020 >considers playing classic the same as playing the real thing >unimpressed with older expansions
I wish your whole generation would 40% yourselves already.
Jesus can people frick off with the wrath nostalgia. Naxx rehash, TOC and ICC were not fantastic and the story was a mess.
No Nerubian/Anub'Arak storyline, writers can't decide if Arthas is Ner'Zhul or a combination of both, Alliance/Horde fighting at ICC of all places.
I haven't played WoW since Cata, but I remember really liking Ulduar. The tank section at the beginning was a lot of fun, and I remember the bosses being interesting. I also remember so many people in my raid being absolutely moronic, constantly bringing up the regen on that one flower boss as if that was the reason we were wiping, completely ignorant that getting that regen buff down to a single stack was what the first part of the fight was all about and that you couldn't do anything about the last stack. We explained that shit so many times.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>liking vehicle dogshit
Stopped reading right there. Aquire taste shitter
Why does everyone shit on TOC? It was literally the thing raiders have literally always b***hed that they want, a raid that cuts out all the bullshit fat of trash between bosses and having your gy right outside of the raid.
TOC is to its core the thing raiders want, a single room where the bosses are one after the other so you can go in, get your loot, and leave.
That's what I wanted because for me raiding was always a means to get gear for pvp.
When they made pvp a totally separate part of the game from pve then it killed all my interest in raiding. Then they made it so gear didn't matter in pvp at all so there was no incentive to doing arenas or RBGs and you could never have that feeling of power over other players from being more of a no life nerd so I lost interest in pvp too. If I want to play a game that is perfectly fair where RPG and progression mechanics don't exist then there are way better options.
3 months ago
Anonymous
They only did that in Legion
3 months ago
Anonymous
Well Legion is the last time I even really played this shit game besides my brief foray into Shadowlands.
Wrath classic isn't Wrath, much like how Classic wasn't Vanilla. It's not like there were buyable tokens in Wrath, after all. If you ever get to MoP classic, you will see a dip and people claiming that it wasn't as good as they thought, regardless of the actual quality of the expansion back when it was being released.
It's literally the same
Tokens didn't make Wrath questing dogshit, tokens didn't make the raids dogshit, tokens didn't make the pvp balance dogshit
At best you can claim tech was more limited in 2007, but that doesn't change that Wrath was mogged its successors, just an excuse for why it was mogged
It literally isn't. Quit talking out of your ass. That's like saying Classic is the same as vanilla and that everyone is just min maxxera that buy gold.
Lmao copium
People praise Mists for the class design and raids. And any raid post-heroic Ragnaros is more or less a "modern" raid, so the MoP raids haven't aged as shittily as vanilla through Wrath.
Some classes were gutted going from Mists to WoD and still haven't recovered.
Mists has lots of issues, and people will be reminded of them. It certainly has its good points, but it'll be a good wakeup call. Hope you buy tokens to have enough money for shit too.
It literally is
The issue with Wrath classic is that the game is boring and shallow, this has nothing to do with the token and was the same before they added the token
3 months ago
Anonymous
There is plenty of shit happening in Wrath classic that wasn't present at all in the base game, such as people mixing specific talents and using multiple consumables that werent a thing in Wrath. At least it isn't BC classic, where people realized there actually is frick all to do and had the worse numbers of all the classics, hence why they didnt bother keeping a server. Though I imagine Vanilla Classic will always be the most popular one.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>minmax talents and consumables weren't in original wrath
What the frick am I reading
YOU might not have been min maxing because you were a dumb kid but plenty of people were.
The only difference between tbc raidlogging and Wrath raidlogging is Wrath has better raids, but it's still worse than later expacs and retail in that regard
3 months ago
Anonymous
Listen you stupid Black person, you don't know a god damn thing about what you're talking about. Tokens weren't a thing, bidding 30k gold on a BiS epic wasn't a thing, minmax skill trees with different builds based off using consumables that still worked from vanilla when servers weren't a thing, people finding niche builds that weren't present in wrath back in the day thanks to all this weird shit wasn't a thing, and you're so stupid you just spew the same bullshit instead of thinking for yourself. I'm done, you can say what you want, but I'm not replying to any more of your posts, and if you do get a reply, it won't be from me.
People praise Mists for the class design and raids. And any raid post-heroic Ragnaros is more or less a "modern" raid, so the MoP raids haven't aged as shittily as vanilla through Wrath.
Some classes were gutted going from Mists to WoD and still haven't recovered.
T14 was legitimately bad content and ToT is mid, it won't hold up.
Plus the storm of dailies in early MoP, although if they launch with 5.4 world drops people won't actually experience how bad gathering 90 lesser charms 1-2 at a time from dailies was, but I'll never forget
Tier 14 was heart of fear, right? It takes balls to try and say that was a bad raid
3 months ago
Anonymous
T14 was all 3 of the MoP launch raids and Amber Shaper is one of the worst fights they ever made
3 months ago
Anonymous
>mogushan vaults
Not amazing but a solid into tier
>terrace of endless spring
Eh first fight was fun 2nd was shit I always hated doing it
>heart of fear
Overall great
3 months ago
Anonymous
While I'm at it I'll do the other two:
Throne:
Great
Seige:
Great other than spoils of pandaria
3 months ago
Anonymous
MSV had 2 training dummy bosses and a shitty meme end boss, it sucked
Terrace had 3/4 terrible fights. Normal Sha does nothing while heroic Sha is a massive slog that still does nothing
Heart of Fears entire backend sucks. Add CC fight, shitty vehicle fight and then Empress is just obviously unfinished because it has 1 mechanic
All 3 raids are half or more bad fights.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Amber Shaper
Don't remind me.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'll remind you of dark animus too
MoP had awful gimmick fights. At least in SoO spoils wasn't hard so you got past it fast, Amber Shaper and Dark Animus were shit fights and massive walls on heroic
3 months ago
Anonymous
I actually liked Dark Animus. I had fun with that fight. Throne of Thunder was a dope raid.
>regardless of the actual quality of the expansion back when it was being released.
Enjoy your endless Siege. Only Warlock mains claim that the Panda shit was good.
>If you have any taste, you quit in Warlords of Draenor
If you have any tatse you would have been playing DAoC or some other pre-wow MMO when WoW came out, never catch the WoW bug, and quit the genre shortly later, after WoW did irrepairable damage to it.
Non one with any taste played WoW. It was like the Wonder Bread of MMOs.
If you asked Chatgpt to produce an intentionally badly written and clichéd storyline it would still shit out a better storyline than anything the WoW team has made.
It's a crime that they got paid to produce such filth, they should be made to pay the company back.
>firing so many people from the lore team >team
There's a TEAM of people writing this schlock? Not just a team, but a team so large that a significant number of them can be fired and the leftovers can still be considered a team?
Shit, maybe their problem was having too many people.
>Story where your character has no part to play
Wait really? What the frick and WoW peoples like this? Why? You might as well watch a movie then, what's the point of an rpg if your character is nowhere to be seen in the story?
Have you not played the game since Cata? Because since MoP your playable character has been a main part of the story. It even became an issue in Legion by making everyone "The Special" or Chosen One. Like with the Artifact weapons signifying the character is the "leader" of their class order hall.
>lead lore historian wrote a book >it had many inaccuracies and retcons in it >proving that even the historians don't know their own lore >they all get fired
I call this a win
Shadowlands is really fricking terrible in nearly every way. Between the moronic storylines, the moronic retcons, the delays, the obviousness of the expansion being aborted and rushed out the door by the FIRST patch. Oh, and lets not forget the game actually did feel like a second job with all the shit you needed to do every single day to keep up to date.
Personally the thing that chaps my ass about it the most, it there WAS so much potential and of course they did dick all with it.
>entire defias conflict was solved in 2 quests >now the defias are led by a bourgeoisie woman who loves the crown and noble class
>entire gilneas conflict was solved in 2 quests >now the city of gilneas is led by a woman and the forsaken get to visit
>entire forsaken have no leader conflict was solved in 2 quests >now the forsaken are led by a woman who is personal friends with all of the alliance leadership
This story does not have a single drop of testosterone anywhere in it anymore. This is the consequence of hiring for diversity out of a particular state on the west-most part of the USA.
Like im the sort that could roll with the BC retcons and liked Pandaland and even i consider Shadowlands Setting ruining garbage.
Legion would been fine if it hadn't done the "Final World" stuff and just had it be another invasion, this time with Gusto, and then had it end at Broken Shore/Tomb of Sargeras with repelling the Legion for now rather then the OHHHH IM GOOOIING COOOOSMIIIIIIIIIC shit.
Like im the sort that could roll with the BC retcons and liked Pandaland and even i consider Shadowlands Setting ruining garbage.
Legion would been fine if it hadn't done the "Final World" stuff and just had it be another invasion, this time with Gusto, and then had it end at Broken Shore/Tomb of Sargeras with repelling the Legion for now rather then the OHHHH IM GOOOIING COOOOSMIIIIIIIIIC shit.
argus would be perfect if done on much more, massive and epic scale
just imagine some random counter on shitzard site coutning azeroth population, going constantly down
getting feel that you're on borrowed time and you need to assault legion capital city and win before demons overwhelm azeroth completly. You battle on argus and inside raid reflected on azeroth forming lst defence to buy as much time as possible
then, seeying that dark cloud around azeroth, the one with sargeras inside, would be much impactful as "we are out of time"
If i remember it right was a shout during a Pre-release event or something where some minor boss was taunting how Azeroth was "the only world left", presumably the Outlands "didn't count" so can, could also just been lying cause Demon, but i definitely remember Loregays discussing it back when Legion was current.
yeah, it was a Satyr that shouted that
2 patches later on Antorus we were thwarting Legion invasions across several worlds that were yet to be destroyed by them
You don't know the setting if you think shadowlands changed anything
It literally just made dreadlords double agents, which they had been like 4 times before
Either they declare current WoW done and launch an alternate back from scratch and somehow manage to put together something as good along that line, or they roll a W4 instead.
Otherwise it dont do anything. However I can see people to hype it up for a while.
>write books from the perspective of servants of the forces of Order >have a servant of the forces of Death read it and go "that's moronic, everyone knows Death is more important than Order" >fans shit their pants in rage
once legendary company, the creators of masterpieces that forever left a mark in the video game industry, bought solely for the sake of the division that is responsible for the development of mobile game three in a row
Why would you have multiple "historians" instead of just having series bibles that writers can consult when writing like normal? What' the fricking point of having multiple living people doing the job that a couple of books can do just as well?
>make an internal Confluence site where lore is maintained like the external fan wikis >make sections that are actually relevant and important mandatory reading material based on which zone, character and storyline the teams will focus on >hire a fricking knowledge manager to maintain that shit
nah, better hire a dozen yesmen and SMEs to just let everything get fricked up instead
Does it really fricking matter why Arthas woke up like holy shit out of all the actual grievances to have with the story this is the most unimportant and turbo autistic.
No shit he woke up because Blizzard decided it was time for the Lich king expansion. The whole point of TFT was to set up WoW.
>end of TFT >Arthas is weakened, sleeps in northrend to recover >Blizzard decides its time for good expansion >Ok he's recovered now he's woken up
>tell Darkhan to look for sunwell power remnants >order Amnennar to increae scourge rpesence in kalimdor >comamnd Kel'Thuzad to do various things, coming to plaguelands >again command Darkhan to trap and raise blood knights as vampires >start constructing massive army, reanimating a shitlaod of mosnters and build up Icecrown >order death knights to lure out Tirion >use frostwyrm to siege hordr and alliance capitals, posion the supplies (grain) sended there when cities were udner necropolis and frost wyrms siege, jsut to lure and type out potential heroes to eb targetted and reanimated as scourge champions >vampries raising yp arugal back >wotlk starts here >both landings except for 1 forsaken one is under heavy siege >nearly every zone sees a giant loses at start, only to be lwoered by player character presence >even after player character intervence, argent crusade cannot reach ICC by foot, each attempt resulting in massive loses >a whole aerial assault force is reduced to small group when reaching lich king himself
the only moron, is you
they retconned that, since he was awaken in vanilla.
Northrend if it ever followed what happened in TFT, Arthas would be facing the blood elves, legion and Old Gods and both factions going there.
Naxxramas is only at the plaguelands because he was dealing with another conflict at northrend that was taking all of the scourge's reinforcements at EP and Kalimdor
Sometimes I get upset when I remember how they permanently erased Arthas while letting Sylvanas go scott free, but it just means he's allowed to be free of the writing team.
That's a means of eventually bringing her back. She got a slap on the wrist for multiple genocide attempts and war crimes, even if it means serving in the afterlife.
>later expansion rolls around >we need your help Sylvanas, if you do this, you'll be free
Not killing her means they can bring her back for a full redemption arc.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>getting upset over hypothetical scenarios >getting upset that a villain who hypothetically does good things later and pays for their crimes is no longer a villain
3 months ago
Anonymous
>pays for their crimes
Nothing will pay for them. Blizzard will save her because she is a woman. Just stating the facts gay.
3 months ago
Anonymous
How is saving every soul you hurt not paying for them?
What exactly does she have to willingly do to get back to her life?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nothing, she should've had her soul disenchanted just like Arthas's. Making her eyes blue and suddenly turning her good is an awful "twist", and she only got that way to begin with because the word serve triggered her. She has been doing evil things for ages and is about the same level of Arthas for being a terrible person. To make her do dailies in the maw for a few expansions won't magically absolve her war cimes.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Why would you hurt someone who wants to help instead of letting them help?
WoW lore just revolves around how many women they can get to lecture you for an entire expansion and it doesn't seem like that's going to end with the new one.
I like the new Gilneas questline where I had to sit in a boat with 3 holes talking about god knows what. This expansion was the worst for having to watching cutscenes with only women over and over.
Can we agree that Garrosh is THE WoW character? Like him or hate him, he is one of the most well known and spoken about characters. He is one of the very few characters from WoW to be allowed be important and shape the whole of the franchise.
Unironically a better-told version of Arthas. He falls because his character wasn't strong enough to do the right things or even admit he was doing the wrong things, and at the same time, he was too strong to be diverted from the path he wanted to take. No manipulative dreadlord bullshit needed, just a perfect mix of determination and hubris that comes from having big boots to fill.
The issue with garrosh is he is comically moronic and antagonistic to others for no reason
Keep in mind his best writing, Stonetalon, is basically not canon.
>WoW historians have been fired
Normally this kind of thing would be bad, as these "historians" are supposed to be the ones that keep the writers on track and make sure they don't retcon a bunch of stuff or make insane lore swings that make no sense with the grand story being told.
You see them in epic fantasy series a lot and they help a tremendous amount.
But WoWs story mantra has been, at least as far back as WOTLK, to retcon whatever you need to as long as it doesn't effect the directly preceeding expansion.
the previous president had good parses, streamed and sold ingame boosts (to the chagrin of his colleagues as some hambeast twitter employees were b***hing about him gaming during working hours)
this b***h already looks like she had her PA put together a grrrl gamer tweet for the announcement
this holy shit its a red flag when a company has gone through multiple shifts of leadership. it means nobody wants to take responsibiliy for the frickups.
>historians
They never stopped any of the destruction of the lore in the first place.
So there was little point to keep thing on if they were not really doing much except letting the old lore get rewritten by some corpo morons and book writers. >Story and franchise
They are the most to blame for the garbage that keeps getting put out in books and other "stuff"
Overall MS did a good job cleaning the fat out. >Chris Metzen
Hell be out in a year on golden parachute after locking the story down enough that he wants nothing to do with MS
I would also belive he would blow up the world in favor of WoW 2 and thus MS can totally retool that.
The lore team was a department of that red shirt guy that was meant to make sure the writing team didn't accidentally reference a dead character as still alive or vice-versa.
It's not the writing team. It just now if you see Delaryn Summermoon in some expansion six years from now as a night elf quest giver, it'll be because the writing team forgot she's actually dead.
Chris Metzen
Chris metzen
Fricking butthole who traded his dream for money
spell it correctly, please
wasn't his dream to make a boardgame?
what happened to that anyway?
Chris Metzen.
the 'M' is supposed to be in lower case, junior metzenposter.
>Chris Metzen
Chris metzen
it's about 15 years too late
WoW's lore is fricked anyway. There was a lot of bad decisions in TBC and beyond but Shadowlands was the nail in the coffin.
Yeah, I fell off during WoD... When they start with time travel shit it always become boring if it becomes the main focus...
I'm glad you said TBC, I still think them making Kael'thas 100% evil and WORKING with the burning legion as the biggest frick up in WoW lore prior to Cata stuff.
dont worry they redeemed kaelthas in the shadowlands
... at least they were GOING to, but then some hole accused the voice actor of something so they fired him and canned the character arc for kael
>decide to play wow for the first time since BFA last year
>go run TK for ashes
>notice Kael'thas voice sounds off
>look it up
>voice actor depersoned and rerecorded all of his lines, even in old expansions
>uninstall
>Kael'thas 100% evil and WORKING with the burning legion
This literally happens at the end of his campaign in TFT, dude. He, Illidan, and Maiev literally kneel and enter Kil'jaeden's service.
anon they were literally pretending to and TBC showed illidan and vashj were working to fight the legion but Kael'thas betrayed them and joined the legion for real.
>pretending
This is simply not true. There is literally nothing that points to this. The reason Illidan started fighting Legion again isn't because of altruism, or because he was against them ideologically, it was because he failed to kill the Lich King and was afraid of being punished for his failures. From his very first appearance in RoC, Illidan was always portrayed as a power-hungry, backstabbing loser with delusions of grandeur. He was never "cool". That's some weird fascination people developed because they were twelve when they played the campaign. Go back and replay Warcraft 3 once again. Just look at how he acts in the night elf campaign of TFT. He's literally doing a big demonic ritual and gloating with an evil voice "SOON MY MASTERS PLANS WILL BE COMPLETE AND I WILL BE RICHLY REWARDED". Illidan being a good guy was a moronic Legion retcon based on over a decade of fans misunderstanding his character and crying about how mistreated he was in TBC (he wasn't).
Frozen Throne was just an elaborate effort to establish WoW's starting races and zones. The whole Forsaken story is fricking bad and didn't make any sense yet it happened as well.
TBC was fricky from the get go.
>Let's make Eradar Alliance
>Let's make High Elves Horde
>Outland is actually mostly forested and full of Grimorically Accurate Not-Angels
>We also like The Dark Crystal
> Illidan and Kael'Thas are both just raid bosses now
> Basically ignored everyone who should have been in Outland
> Leaving Garona for much later
> Huge aesthetic shift and tone break
That xpac was mostly only good for instanced PVP. Karazan was the only worthwhile addition to the and that was because it should have been in Vanilla. Starting areas were fun too, I guess. Hellfire Basin was wasted on being the entry area.
And then in the next xpac you just kill the big bad of Warcraft 3. I mean getting to see and fight major characters is cool and all but they totally lost the charm of the Onyxia quest where you feel like the game world is bigger than you and the villagers actually cry in despair when they realize your clown armor wearing ass is their only hope for survival.
>>We also like The Dark Crystal
Oh frick, i never made the connection before but now that you pointed it out i cannot unthink it.
>only good for pvp
have a nice day
Instanced PVP specifically. Not minding Blizzard's habit of being bipolar when it comes to tuning classes, the new skills made instanced PVP more enjoyable. Even then the emphasis on arena versus team-based PVP wasn't smart and Arathi Basin was more or less busted for good for Horde.
TBC more or less killed world PVP.
> World raids de incentivized by level cap with nothing to replace them
> Flying mounts with no combat made it so you will basically never run into any sort of danger unless you want to (hurt PVE as well)
Arenas were a good addition. Making them the emphasis of PVP was really really dumb. Also could have tied in Dire Maul and Stranglethorn to make the experience more cohesive.
>Arenas
Yeah, what fricked and sucked the fun out of all class design for all future content.
But not to be just a screaming hater, what's to blame is Blizzard's urge to make everything an e-sport.
Shadowlands did not change any lore and anyone that says otherwise doesn't read quest text.
>"Actually, it was all the Jailor's plan all along"
Don't forget he and the other gods are also 3d-printed robots manufactured by first ones who apparently created the universe
Damn magical constructs created by superiors? Totally not at all like titan keepers
This is truly lore ruining...
The first quest after you get to Oribos is Bolvar looking at the camera and saying "this guy has been talking to every Lich King from the beginning and all of us told him to frick off" and none of his plans got past Step 1 until Legion.
>Afterlife is like DBZ now, no ones ever really gone
>Thanos rip off Jailer is behind everything since WC3 because Danuser watched Infinity War.
>Titans are not the first creators
>The Eternal ones are also robots made by the first gods because Danuser watched The Eternals. literally they didn't even change the fricking name. At least Jailer wasn't called Thaneos.
>Nerubian architecture is copied from Maldraxxus
>Dreadlords are actually triple agents
>Frostmourne doesn't steal your soul but just splits your soul in 2 because the new writers forgot Uther's ghost already appeared in WoW.
There is probably more i am forgetting.
You forgot
>Jailer was actually the secret good guy all along and was working to help fortify the defense of this part of the realm against a random nebulous threat that's totally way worse than anything we've ever experiences in WoW to that point, but heretofore completely unmentioned.
yes I have a phd in WoW history
>wow
>lore
pick one
>wow
>lore
>20 frickin 24
Long overdue. They should have been axed about four expansions ago, but now the rot has already settled in.
it's been over since wotlk
It's been over since TBC. Everyone forgets the backlash making the Illidari le ebil raid bosses
IIRC the issue was Illidan was set up as the evil raid boss when he did LITERALLY NOTHING that was bad in Outland, it was all Kael'thas and the Naga lady. He just sat in Black Temple the whole time until we showed up while his minions did literally every evil thing in the expansion, then we beat him up.
Hell, wasn't that the whole fricking point of the Legion retcon, Blizzard catering to the entire fanbase who said Illidan did nothing wrong by making it so he legit did nothing wrong?
It's a shame they are too proud to admit that Uther has done literally nothing in the story to deserve any praise. They mostly half assed acknowledging that Thrall left a literal moron in charge of the Horde as well with zero training or oversight besides "lol Cairne might help you if he feels like it don't kill him tho thanks"
That was the big issue, on top of several retcons and characters suddenly huffing evil juice. Kel'thuzad in vanilla is at least an obvious evil figure, but the Illidan gang were just made into raid bosses for purples and Blizzard never really justified it. This is on top of turning Blood Elves into major prima donnas, Draenei being changed, and other weird choices that just didn't work.
Declare everything what happened after Wrath as an hallucination while we were inside frostmourne and work from there.
>wow Black folk now
>haha serves them right frick lore team
>wow Black folk year from now
>wtf why orkie mc ork doesn't act the say way he did in previous expansions???? where is the lore team????????
Since you wondered that just one year ago, was the lore team doing an acceptable job? Their continuity quality has been piss-poor or the story team itself has not been using their advice since it would hinder their own agendas.
The same lore team that made current Sylvanus and whatever the frickk ALL of shadowlands was?
Being fired is too good for them, they should be put to death.
someone was getting paid for that?
>fire literally 99% of the morons that were keen on removing everything that happened in warcraft 3 and wow all the way to WOTLK
>only metzen left as the one writing shit
>wow becomes kino again
TRUST
THE
PLAN
Fan fricking tastic. I can't wait for the inevitable vulpera/human shipping
metzen is a feminist israelite, they won’t allow a shortstack because it’s too close to e-girl
Anduin's Vulpera wife still weirds me out tbh. You just know they get up to some really fricked up shit in bed. It's weird that the Alliance is so open to having a Vulpera queen too.
What the frick is a Vulpera?
Anthro foxes.
They're an allied Horde race added in Battle for Azeroth.
I haven't followed the lore in years, Anduin marries a fox?
>Anduin's Vulpera wife
When did this happen?
Anduin will marry Sylvanas
>putting a holy enchanted armament inside an undead quite literally
>World of Warcraft : Fox is now a reality
Based
>muh corruption
lmfao, game is just raidlogging and not even that feels good because the addons play for you
I will take overusing corruption if we got villains like Garrosh again as a result. He was the definitive WoW villain made evil by corruption and he's also legit one of the best characters who was first created in WoW because he was corrupted not just by an evil god but his own ambitions and need to be the brutal savage warrior his father was.
corrupted garrosh was shit as corruption always is
But Garrosh WASN'T corrupted, people seem to forget that. The Old God wasn't able to control him, it was entirely his own ambitions that made him who he was.
he was obviously corrupted, everyone was making fun of the writers on twitter so they retconned him not really being corrupted
Garrosh was corrupted by the ideals of Blackhand's Horde, whom many orcs in draenor never learned of the shit in shattrath and later azeroth when doomhammer failed to fix the damage.
Also everyone blaming him for what Grom did and the fact that no one ever learned of his redemption and sacrifice, on which he rejected The demonic poison in his veins for the son of the orc whom he saw as the non demonic horde's legacy and future free of their sins.
In fact, Garrosh himself is part of the old Horde's sins, and his own Pride and Ego led to his downfall.
If this was lets say: TES, Malacath would be torturing him for forgetting what a orc is.
>Also everyone blaming him for what Grom did and the fact that no one ever learned of his redemption and sacrifice, on which he rejected The demonic poison in his veins for the son of the orc whom he saw as the non demonic horde's legacy and future free of their sins.
But Garrosh ignored that part of Grom's story, all he saw was the great warrior that slaughtered his enemies. Because Garrosh was raised among the sick and weak in Orc society so he worshipped strength above all else. What he took from Grom's sacrifice was that he possessed the strength to fight off even demon corruption (that he himself willingly gave into but let's ignore that part)
Exactly, he literally ignored Everything Grom did and repeated the same Black persondry Blackhand and Gul'dan did.
He put everything the orcs went through in War 3 through the Trash Can because he grew on the shit that happened in the first two wars and not what happened when the legion finally showed up.
He even went on to torture the elements the same way Warlocks and Necrolytes did during the war under Gul'dan and the Shadow Council
WoW's timeline at this rate is different than the one in War 3, even Vanilla WoW map is different than the one in War 3 since there is no Nendis or Winterspring coast, and moonglade isn't located below hyjal and guarding the sntrance, but north.
Same goes to the Barrow's Deep Caverns and Timbermaw Hold
But then again, WoW we have now wasn't made alongside warcraft 3 since both teams at the fricking company weren't even interacting with each other post Pre-Alpha thanks to fricking Tom "Elmer Fudd" Chilton
>He put everything the orcs went through in War 3 through the Trash Can
tbf, I'd also want to ignore that my dad literally gave into demon corruption AGAIN because he was faced with a raid boss that was too hard so he cheated.
>n no you see he was corrupted by ideals!
That is not what people consider Corruption within most fantasy/sci fi media. It's gonna be corrupted by an outside force. Old Gods, aliens, AI, shit like that. Stuff that changes who you are for their own goals. Ideals are just a mortal thing. Garrosh did everything he did for his own goals. For his people.
It isn't corruption you gigantic moron
Garrosh was already born fricked up in the head thanks to the red pox.
He is literally Down Syndrome orc
Even doomhammer would murder his ass for sheer homosexualry.
>cata about to drop
>lower tier quest designers go ham on the zones
>no communication with the higher ups who design the grander part of the lore
>this results in Garrosh being a total schizo, doing one thing and a complete opposite the moment after
COME to think of it, every fricking redpox survivor nagrand orc went to do fricked up shit during cata and mop, and all were schizos.
Did Kosak the OG sylvanas simp wanted to tell us something?
>Garrosh is a based moron who kicked everyone's ass so hard that they had to team up against him like he is the fricking Burning Legion to take him down
Just Like Stalin, but Satan took him a way before that, after he read a letter calling him a homosexual.
he wasn't born fricked up, according to bronze dragonflight, we got the worst iteration of garrosh. Everywhere else he's more or less a hero to both sides. Thrall fucekd up, not him. You have it even in the books
>thrall tells garrosh that he gonna be a warchief
>garrosh refuses telling him he's a warrior not leader
>ok dude you'll have zuljin and Cairne helping you
>he asked above 2 guys AFTER asking garrosh
>both of them more or less shitted at him
fast forward
>people are dying on ogrimmar streets, capital is in shambles
>tauren and troll chiefs told you to frick off
>attempt to talk with nelves, poor attempt result in poor results
>a lot of shit happnes
WOW WHY GARROSH TURNED HITLER WE ONLY ISOLATED HIM ON EVERY OCCASION AND REfUSED TO LEND HIM OUR WISDOM
>Everywhere else he's more or less a hero to both sides. Thrall fucekd up, not him. You have it even in the books
but in shadowlands we were told all souls are the collective of all their iterations across timelines and realities
so why did he go to revendreth if ours was the worst iteration while the others were heroic or better
shadowlands is not canon
also other iterations are quite posibly still alive
>shadowlands is not canon
it is anon, otherwise we wouldnt have the epilogue of this expansion
shadowlands is not canon, homosexualflight is a filler
practically, after legion every xpac is a fanfic of "what if"
>Make a big deal about Thrall losing his connection to the elements right after fighting Garrosh
>The rest of WoD-start of SL he is unable to use shaman magic.
>At somepoint in shadowlands you find him again and he randomly starts using his magic again.
>He explains it was all in his head, he could always still call on the elements.
Meaning, he was so sad about Garrosh that he refused to help when Azeroth was almost destroyed multiple times, did not call on the elements to fight off an assassin who was by his home and family. All because he was sad q.q
I get they wanted to move away from Green Jesus, but making him a sad sack was moronic.
This could be easily rectified by having some vanilla Earthen Ring character you'd recognize walk up and go "actually it was because you used the elements to kill Garrosh in a duel and basically cheat. They were mad at you, so don't do that again."
>Tauren and troll chiefs told you to frick off
Gee maybe that's because Garrosh killed Banes father and tried to have Vuljin assassinated
>Garrosh killed Banes father
Wasn't his fault and Cairne was the one who challenged him
Magatha poisoned the weapons and she was on league with the old gods because the old b***h wanted power.
Bonus to the fact she also sounds like Maven Black-Briar even if it isn't Tyrande voicing her
Cairne called garrosha moron directly after thrall made him warchief and then went to Voljin and Cairne to ask them to help him, basically lying to garrosh
before Garrosh sended assasins after Voljin, he said that he gonna slice garrosh throat over a simple argument
and still Gayrossh had zero arguments to defend himself since he was a red pox moron
trial at the 'warcrimes" already shown everyone that they were part of the problem and garrosh was not a cause but result of their actions
every single racial leader got questioned there
which is also true
Varian being a hot headed moron in wrath
Jaina not being present in Icecrown as Muradin and Letting herself go mad with Daelin living rent free in her head thanks to Arcane radiation
Moira Being a b***h and not letting her pass go after all that happened to her father.
Vol'jin not admitting his mistakes.
Lor'Themar and most of the horde leaders not acting like proper allied leaders
Sylvanas being a Hypocrite b***h who instead of finding the cure as she and the apothecaries were doing back in Vanilla, had a woman moment and embraced undeath and fell for the Val'kyr's lies.
Garrosh killed Cairne after Cairne demanded that Garrosh give up the mantle because he thought the twilight hammer was actually Garrosh randomly killing druids so they had a duel for it. Then he died like a b***h because of Magatha and Garrosh was so disgusted by her he left her to die instead of helping her take over the tauren.
Meanwhile Voljin walked up to Garrosh threatened to assassinate him to his face and then got asspained when it made Garrosh kick the trolls out.
>Then he died like a b***h because of Magatha
Yeah, Cairne was going to win that fight but he got nicked at the last second by poison on Garrosh's axe
>expansions are now 1 - 2 patches long
>blizztard attempts to shove as much shit into the story line as possible
>have to start a new story line every year instead of every 2 - 3 years
>metzen responsible for the moronic time travel mutliuniverse garbage
it's unironically over
>pay piggies can't wait to start buying yearly expos filled with nonsense lore and plot holes costing 100+ dollerinos
>this Black person play wow for the lore and story
Holy fricking Black person, you're dumb and black lol
Shows what you know, moron. I played WoW for the arenas. I also only ever played in private servers and will never give them my money.
are now 1 - 2 patches long
>Wrath the peak of wow
>first tier
>Reused raid and two one room raids
>third tier
>literally filler content
Yeah I would rather have 3 good raid tiers than whatever the frick they did with wrath
>trusting METhzen
>ever
stop being so goddamn frickig new
The Legion story was cool and I am not going to pretend it wasn't
>legion
again, stop being new
>Chris Metzen, the guy who's a self-insert homosexual with Thrall
may as well say that Danuser is a hero
Microsoft will have to fire Metzen's daughter as well.
Despite them trying to cover her up, Alex is pure sex in every dragonflight screenshot or webm I see. Dog bless NN55's animations of her too.
>only metzen left as the one writing shit
>wow becomes kino again
He's the one who ruined it in the first place, moron.
>Endless corruption
It can only be saved if they literally removed every extra race past classic.
Vulpera, Blood elves, Space goats, Furrywolves, all that allied race bullshit, Pandas literally all of it needs to be removed.
They can't do that anymore though because of all the people who rolled those races and bought race changes.
blood elves and goblins already existed in classic. Give alliance.... uh. Gilneas as a human variant not as furries and whatever those flying dwarf clan guys are called as a variant.
I think people really don't remember the old days of WoW lore.
Everyone remembers CORRUPTION and Green Jesus, things have just gotten so impossibly bad that those days were amazing by comparison.
I'll take corruption and thralljebus over obese women and furshit, frick you very much.
>trying to kill the sexy goat girl instead of disarming and fricking her
suspension of disbelief broken
He's just not a goatfricker.
He's a blood elf male so probably a gay.
Hey that's racial profiling!
Well I am a racist after all.
Wei Wang's art was so fricking good. We don't get artwork that oozes cool like his anymore.
I miss the duality of the BC races.
>both races clawing their way back from the brink of total annihilation
>one race looks like demon spawns, but is full of empathy and piety
>the other looks like peak purity, but is a opportunistic cutthroat police state
Didn't even last for the whole expac before bloodelves got ruined and Draenei got left in the dust for horse wiener memes.
Wasn't Chris Metzen the guy who when the sex scandal shite was dropping, he was caught searching his own name to see if he'd been named?
id search for it too if I know how many deranged c**ts work/worked at Blizzard who'd concoct a rape story about me just to get their 15 minutes of fame
just not frick up the way he did, which was a certified boomer moment
But we made so much social progress with Dragonflight.. It’ll be so shameful if we go back to stories about pointless war mongering after an expansion with powerful storylines about gay centaurs and wheelchair dragons. What’s even worse is that they will probably not be so hard on their programmers and engineers, which will rekindle the ableist practices we had moved away from since 2014.
This is really heckin problematic, what are we going to do dragonflightsisters?
The lore of wow has been making less and less sense for at least 10 years now, it's not salvageable.
>let’s rip off this d&d module
>this character is now trans
>let’s rip off this other mmo
PAY THEM WHAT THEY’RE WORTH
This is a good thing, but the playerbase is the biggest issue
>frick the lore, I want every race to be any class and the classes can do everything!
Blizz listens to these morons too
>World of Warcraft Lore
what the utter frick
what the frick how does wow have a lore team? the lore gets retconned every expansion to be whatever the frick some fur homosexual wants
what lore?
How do you even need more than two writers for a lore team?
Warlords of Dreaenor was when lore start to be massacred
WOD can least stand on it being the result of time travel bull but everything else they have changed and retcon all on their terrible writers.
>Warlords of Draenor
Funny way of spelling WoW Vanilla.
>that flaming pile of dog shit that was known as the "wow lore" had a "team" behind it
SEASON 2 WHEN?!?!
>is it over
hopefully
>I need new ideas people! We killed off the old gods and the titans have fricked up, so where do we go next?
>what if we made Anduin an actual bad guy seeing as he's already white and male?
Would they fire the troony in this case or promote them? Based on the answer we'll know if WoW lore is truly dead.
>paying someone to keep track of lore when you just retcon it to fit your current storyline
Why?
Oh no.
Anyways.
>Lore team
Can’t believe this was actually a thing. Just have the concept artists & character modellers come up with something to retroactively justify the designs
>go to job interview
>hand them my resume
>"... anon, what is a WoW historian and why did you do it for 15 years?"
Any massive story property should have a lore keeper if you have any care about attention to detail and continuity. Modern writing is so shit now because they can't stay consistent between games and movies.
modern writing is shit because of the "people" who write it
wrong, a lot of writing would be better if they at least adhered to the lore, you can't even immerse in modern writing now because retcons and straight up forgetting / lack of care makes all developments useless
your naivette is almost cute
the fact they don't care about continuity at all only proves my point
do nothing writer jobs are destined to be used for the Black person/woman quota
>Any massive story property should have a lore keeper if you have any care about attention to detail and continuity. Modern writing is so shit now because they can't stay consistent between games and movies.
And yet Blizzard has just retconned everything willy-nilly for over 15 years DESPITE having the lore keeper.
Almost as if their job was a waste of time and money.
Curious.
These people don't give a shit about the lorekeepers, that's why it's funny. Rings of Power, for example, is notorious for having lorekeepers and telling them they don't care when they frick things up. They have "lorekeepers" for marketing.
>wow historians
talk about fake fricking jobs holy shit
Notice how every game company employees getting layed off have all been pozzed homosexuals? Especially Riot, where the known employees have all been the ones that made the game ridiculously pozzed.
Imagine being paid to check on game wikis like 3 time a year
They better add human on anthro relationships
I really want neglected areas like Pandaria to get new story content, seems like a waste outside of going to visit Li Li.
kys
This is necessary. All writers involved with shadowlands needed to be removed
WoW lore team did a shit job anyway. Putting out those lore books tying up all the threads then retcon it the year after.
what fricking lore team? the same ones who rewrote characters as they wanted to and lied about passed events or outright retconned them to fit into thier new "friendly happy WoW" world? this actually is a good thing then, go full scorched earth
>Layoffs after committing to better storytelling
Well yeah, that's to be expected. They were garbage and are now being replaced.
final fantasy 14 won
nah WoW has way to many people who buy it every year still. streamers and their horde alone buy just to b***h about it. FF atleast knew when to nuke its bad story and when to finish it. they are also doing an engine update as well as adding new classes still. WoW needs a fricking reboot.
FFXIV doesn't have fur-lined leather boots.
It unironically did, just coming off one of the most hype Fanfests and giving the fans exactly what they want for the game in Dawntrail to then hear that WoW is fricked with their entire staff being gutted just as they wanted to try narrative story arc telling.
Remember WoWgays, you did this for years when other mmos failed you went into their threads, their discussion places and gloated. Now it's your turn.
Delusional, nobody but disgusting fujos plays your VN
>one of the most hype Fanfests
How? Nothing looked that appealing. The trailers were mediocre and the song was probably the worst in the games history. The graphics update is so far looking like a nothingburger, with the hair being less pixelated being the only highlight. If you're a furry maybe the female Hrothgar would have been a highlight if they weren't being voiced by an actual literal troony.
XIV is shit, saying that as someone who unsubbed a couple of months ago, picking the game about 2 years ago when wow went down the shitter.
It plays like shit.
It takes months to get to the endgame.
But then you find out the endgame sucks ass and you should have enjoyed the leveling more since that's the main content.
But then you realize it's just walking between purple swirls on the ground and watch mostly unvoiced cutscenes.
So then you realize the actual endgame is to get a gay ass glam and either stand around in Limsa, or go to someone's paypig house aka club and do the ERP there.
So back to you went to WoW and now your have nothing, not even the Chinese play WoW.
I'm not here to defend wow you coombrained mongoloid.
All you trannies boasting with XIV like it's some masterpiece should frick off immediately, you're only relying on the fact that most people haven't played it and therefore don't know how shit it is.
I'm all for everyone to give XIV a try, at least then, they can all see for themselves how much disingenuous liars you are.
Blud is mad his game is bad.
>not even the Chinese play WoW.
ummm
>Gold scammers are the same as a healthy playerbase
I can see how you would think that as a WoW addict.
>most hype Fanfests
>giving the fans exactly what they want
lol, lmao even
The setting is bland, the stakes are low, Wuk Lamat's American troony voice is fricking terrible, the Scions are still in the story even though there's little reason for it, the cinematic trailer was the most disappointing and uninteresting one since Stormblood, Cosmic Exploration likely means everyone should just abandon their Island Sanctuary and let it go to waste, and so on.
I'm still going to play it, but it's mostly because I'm in the habit of playing FFXIV, rather than being actually excited for it. Maybe the Job Action trailer will be interesting, but I doubt it.
>low stakes
>High stakes
Reading through your post and it's shocking what you think makes for an advenutre. Please don't ever play FFXIV.
How fricking dogshit is your reading comprehension, dumbass? I already play FFXIV, and nothing in my post referenced high stakes.
Things obviously need to be scaled back following EW, as going to the edge of the universe to fight the embodiment of despair after killing the two main Gods of your own world is pretty difficult to escalate from, but a vacation to a shitty place like South America with uninteresting characters doesn't instill much excitement.
>but a vacation to a shitty place like South America
>he still believes the beach vacation filler expac meme
Wow. A futuristic place. Not like we haven't already had ultra high-tech places in every single expansion for the past ten years already.
Why do you think End of the World level stakes makes for a good adventure? It's boring and overplayed, it's Avengers Endgame all over again Marvel tier shit.
Do you literally not understand that there are options between "End of the World" and "stupid vacation to shithole location"?
You definitely did not watch any of the fanfest reveals if that is what you still think Dawntrail is.
I KNEEL!
We're off to Solution 9 while WoW gays are still stuck playing the same game over and over and over because everything new they try fricks their game up even more.
>makes worst post-expansion content imaginable
>*blizzard crumbles under its own weight*
>wins
jesus christ
Endwalker is the worst expansion they've released, far worse than Stormblood.
>they've released, far worse than Stormblood
While story was trash, content wise Stormblood was easily the best so yeah lmao
Yeah I mean just for story. Everyone always talks about how SB is the worst part of the story but with EW fully released at this point, EW takes that title without question.
The actual content in EW is dogshit too. They've gotten way too comfortable, hopefully Dawntrail shakes up their formula a bit but I doubt it.
Is there any MMORPG worth playing for the story? I really like The Secret World but other than that it was always mid to terrible.
>s there any MMORPG worth playing for the story?
Honestly, GW2 had pretty good story until they went full moron mode and killed the game, besides that only FF14 is above average
>GW2 had pretty good story until they went full moron mode and killed the game
nah, not really
GW2 story was at best serviceable and at worst trash, and then they just went balls to the walls with the gay shit because of course they would, but even before that, it wasn't very good. The exploration was fine, but the story was always kinda dookie
>GW2 had a pretty good story
>queue four hours on historic human clay listening to a complex issue being dumbed down into racists are bad and not racists move on.
>Followed by being asked which variant of fur I want to go fricking help.
>preceded by hours of YA-tier not-drama and boring ass plot-beats where the only interesting thing is big Norn lady but the world is so fricking sterile that the only sexuality allowed is homosexuality.
Unironically SWTOR.
Some of the class stories are meh, most of them are pretty good, one or two of them are fantastic. The first post release expansion starts off as absolute dogshit but they quckly got their shit together and everything after ranges from okay to "holy shit this is so good they should just adapt this into a movie and make billions".
FF14 has the best story told in an MMO but there is so much fricking padding and long expositional dump dialog sequences that it's not really worth it to play through the 400 or so hours it takes to get through all of it. It's real feast or famine with that, lots of great moments followed by multiple hour long stretches of nonsense. SWTOR doesn't really have this issue.
Ok and? Literally the story and lore were only good in legion, no one is going to care if the fire all of them
only mop
Nothing in Legion was good
>uhhh we just found these magic weapons everyone forgot about during the past 3 world ending threats
No way?! Magic weapons and artifacts in fricking Azeroth? How stupid is blizzard?! Thank god we have big moronic Black person anon showing us the right way
Frick you
moron moment
it's not like MAJORITY of these fricking artifacts where literal asspuls and not actual legendary item
Wow anon you're telling me the artifacts and magic weapons we found in this world filled with artifacts and magic weapons don't make sense to your tiny black brain?
Make a real argument you stupid Black person.
what is aid, is that from various weapons or other items of power referenced from wc to wow, they made a lot of ones never ever referenced before, like fury warrior dual swords, where you could use a lot of other weapons in that place
but it's understandable, when they had Grommash and Lothar at the first iteration of Vallaryar or what was that zone where warrior go after dying, and then removed it
but i understand, you have nostalgia for legion, know no shit about what bullshit methzen was pulling with his green jesus always right stuff, and your maina rgument is calling someone macroBlack person on anonymous board, demoanding argument while not being able to respond to one already made
nta, but I think he's talking about some weapons being actual legendary items that had been in the lore for ages like the Ashbringer, Felo'melorn, the Doomhammer, or the Scythe of Elune, and some that were just conjured up on the spot for the express purpose of being an artifact like the Warswords of the Valarjar or Light's Wrath.
>literally ignoring his question of why they weren't retrieved earlier because you can't answer it
I'm laughing at you.
>Literally the story and lore were only good in legion
Half the reason for that is it picked up many of the loose ends from vanilla. It shouldn't have taken that long to confront Xavius.
Legion's story was really not very good and people need to stop pretending that it was. We didn't play Legion because it had a good story, we played Legion because it was actually fun to play.
Grinding maw of shit all day was not in fact fun
good thing the maw wasn't in legion then huh
You're forgetting that the Maw of Souls grind only really started in earnest like 3 months into the expansion, after we did all other content but needed more AP.
Yes it was.
>WoW "Historians" fired
>Allowed Void Elves, Vulpera and Dracthyr to exist
And nothing of value was lost
Look how they massacred my boy
am i really posting with zoomers nostalgic for fricking legion? is this what my life is now?
Legion was the peak of wow
>Random legendaries
>Personal loot only from raids
Frick Legion and frick you. I spent 4 weeks trying to get a single set piece from ToS and didn't get dick and that's when I gave up.
>Not dropping your bis Lego first try
Git gud scrub
Entitled obsessed c**ts like you are the problem. The legendaries were ruined immediately after all the rng was removed.
You're the kind of a guy who'd rather bosses drop some currency so you can buy items and get everything you want? You're the problem.
Legion was the fricking casino expansion and was only well received because it followed WoD.
>and was only well received because it followed WoD.
Yes, god forbid an expansion actually decides to give us a reason to leave our garrison, gives back core abilities after so many were taken away, made classes fun again, and introduced a new class that while it was moronicly overpowered, was legitimately fun to play.
>reason to leave the garrison
>every "reason" is just a lever that you pull praying you don't get the wrong legendary
Nope. Legion wasn't "good" until the end.
No one was actively doing content going "oh I hope THIS mob is the one that drops my legendary". No it was just something that happened while you did content because no mob had a higher chance of dropping one than any other.
Shit if you're going to talk about grind, at least use a legit complaint like how tedious those Nightfallen dailies were.
If you wanted to play fire mage you were
Overall I wasn't unhappy with Legion legendaries but when your best spec is dependant on a legendary it felt bad
Fire Mage was afaik the only spec that was actually, legitimately 100% dependent on having that damn legendary to simply play at all. The other classes the legendary was there to make you more optimal in raid parses but you didn't actually NEED the damn thing just to play the class.
>doing X hoping for legendary
No, I didn't do this, I was:
>doing X hoping I don't get a Sephuz because I have limited chances before my character is locked out of legendary drops
Then there was other moronic shit like a BiS trinket coming from a world boss, AP's initial implementation was ridiculous, and titanforging was still dumb, I had an LFR Ursoc trinket that was only a few ilvls below Mythic. M+ was a mixed bag because it completely changed how PvE progression works, and the implementation in future expansions was never as good as it was in Legion. The expansion is propped up by the content being good, but it was the start of Blizzard being stubborn as frick with creating and standing by obviously awful systems, and that attitude would persist until the middle of SL, but imo it was already too late to course correct.
Rip gladiator dps 🙁
>he doesn't know WoW: Classic was 4 years ago
>he doesn't know Legion was 8 years ago
>he doesn't know WoD (and the model update) was 10 years ago
>he doesn't know MoP was 12 years ago
>he doesn't know Cata was 14 years ago
>he doesn't know WotLK was 16 years ago
>he doesn't know TBC was 17 years ago
>he doesn't know Vanilla was 20 years ago
>Legion, one of WoW's best expacs
They fixed this btw
Still not acceptable that the race released as it did though
>WoW
>lore team
Are we talking about the same people that came up with bullshit for a dragon to need a wheelchair?
They had dogshit consistency WITH historians on staff. Lay the useless fricks off. Red Shirt Guys do it for free and embarrass them. Can't believe they plan to have Arathi humans underground, lol.
Red shirt guy mogged the OG team tho
Guess the story was always dogshit lol
except the og team was actually listening to him pointing out shits
they even made him an NPC in ironforge next to magni, explaining shit to player character, something like fact checker with red shirt ona dwarf
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=51596/wildhammer-fact-checker
wow lore have been shit since forsaken were announced part of the horde
who cares anyway
>people nostalgic for legion, the padded timesink follower mission expansion
>firing so many writers after Blizzard has committed to better writing is pretty tone-deaf
LOL
funniest shit ive read today
WoW lore is meaningless after WoTLK and felt like 90% of the lore after Wrath was tacky "And then this happened, but then this happened, and then this happened"
WoW should have ended at Wrath, then Blizzard would develop Warcraft 4 or something and conclude the Burning Legion plotline there, and then we get a WoW 2 on a new engine based on whatever lore Warcraft 4 introduced.
>after WoTLK
moron
Enlighten me then redditor, why not wrath? Wrath essentially closed most of the plot threads of WC3 which vanilla, TBC and WoTLK were based around.
90% of the story after Wrath is fricking meaningless, pointless tacked on garbage, fanfiction, or turning side tangents into full on expansions.
>redditor
na go project into somebody else, if you need to tell me why wrath was shit you are a blind fanboy
Nice to see that reading comprehension Nobody was praising WoTLK or calling it the pinnacle of WoW, redditor. Reread
very, very slowly.
Wrath marked the last WoW iteration that followed the coherent storyline that started with the RTSes. Cata and onwards are almost entirely "but then this happened, but then that happened, but then this happens" and side tangents turned into Expansions "Hey, remember that Panda man? Let's make an entire expansion about his home that has literally nothing to do with the Burning Legion/Scourge plotline of WC3/WoW
Deathwing literally predates Arthas you stupid zoomer
The only random occurrence was Pandaria being found, which again was already known location. WoD was a product of Wrathions planning to unite Azeroth to stand against the Legion, Legion happened because of AU Guldan being flung through the dark portal and BFA happened from fallout during Legion + Azsharas ongoing scheming
Meanwhile TBC->Wrath had no relation. One day Arthas just decided to get off his chair and fight again so new expac time.
>Deathwing literally predates Arthas you stupid zoomer
And Deathwing was never a central plot point in any Warcraft strategy game whilst Arthas is one of the central characters of Warcraft 3 which was the foundation for WoW, TBC and WoTLK. Imagine if, three books into the Lord of the Rings trilogy, there was immediately a sequel that threw Frodo and the rest of the cast into some tacked on adventure over some flavor text. That's what Cataclysm was, and most WoW expansions after that point was essentially that. Tacked on garbage that has little to do with what was established in the RTSes.
And what the hell do you mean TBC -> Wrath had no relation? The Legion and the Scourge are the two biggest enemies that the RTS games established. It made SENSE that after TBC, we had a Northrend expansion pack, because that's the established lore.
Cata is a "but then THIS happened" side tangent turned into an expansion that shifts to an entirely different villain than what was built up in the RTSes, WoW, TBC and Wrath. MoP is a side tangent based based on creating the lore of a one-off character which has nothing to do with the Legion/Scourge story of WoW. Warlords of a Draenor is just "What if THIS happened instead, in another timelime". I quit after WoD but I still learn a bit of the stories and premises of other WoW expansions from friends but Legion is quite literally the only WoW expansion post-Wrath that actually advances... the Warcraft story established in the 1990s and 2010s.
Wrath of the Lich King was literally the perfect thematic ending point for WoW. WoW could have ended there, made Warcraft 4 to deal with the Burning Legion, and then go all out with whatever shitty fanfiction they wanted for WoW 2 after that.
>-oomer
Underage shitstain buzzword.
>And what the hell do you mean TBC -> Wrath had no relation? The Legion and the Scourge are the two biggest enemies that the RTS games established. It made SENSE that after TBC, we had a Northrend expansion pack, because that's the established lore.
There is absolutely no connection between KJ losing at Sunwell and Arthas getting off his throne. None. It's the very definition of " and then this happened" because Arthas was sitting silently since the end of TFT until the start of Wrath
>Cata is a "but then THIS happened" side tangent
Cata was not random, the twilight flight and twilight cult had been running for a while. It's a build up, not a tangent, and it built up to Deathwings cataclysm. It's also a continuation of the black dragonflight story, which is actually the cornerstone of classic wow, not gays like Illidan who was barely alluded to in vanilla.
>MoP is a side tangent based based on creating the lore of a one-off character which has nothing to do with the Legion/Scourge story of WoW.
MoP was about Wrathions planning to end the alliance horde war once and for all so Azeroth would be a united front against the Legion, you obviously don't even know what you're talking about you subhuman wrathbaby
>Wrath of the Lich King was literally the perfect thematic ending point for WoW
Actually play WC1/2 before speaking again zoomer. Wrath didn't end anything because Arthas was only 1 pawn of the Legion and pivoting away from the massively popular MMO back to an RTS is so mind-bogglingly moronic I can only assume your parents dropped you on your head constantly as a baby
>Cata was not random, the twilight flight and twilight cult had been running for a while
If the expansion after Wrath was about Hogger taking over Stormwind you'd unironically eat it up because it was "built up" even though it had nothing to do with the main lore of the RTS games leading into the first three WoW expansions.
>MoP was about fanfiction character introduced in fanfiction expansion
Great post.
Arthas wasn't in WC1 and they made massive retcons to force WC3 in. He's literally fanfiction.
Dragons are not fanfiction, as they predate Arthas.
There is. You have it even in vanilla in flavor text. In SWp patch you have people at sunwell talking about how scourge is becoming restless again and how its getting ahrder and ahrder to fight them off
as per cata, it was also referenced. You had twilight cultist since classic and in ulduar. Jsut whole xpac was butchered by methzen moronic writting and absurdly bad last raid tier. Well, even in classic you have random npc joking about deathwing bursting out of the maelstorm
>You have it even in vanilla in flavor text. In SWp patch you have people at sunwell talking about how scourge is becoming restless again and how its getting ahrder and ahrder to fight them off
This is just NPCs commenting on "thing happening" it does not establish causality
If say, KT finished reforming in his phylactery then woke Arthas up it would kinda justify it (aside from the gapping plot hole of not destroying his phylactery)
Twilight Cult was shown actively doing things to raise the twilight flight, cult of the damned was not shown doing anything to get Arthas up and running that is the difference
wotlk was the start of the moronic idea of pre-xpac story happening in the books
for wotlk, not only prepatch, but arthas awakening was followed by attack on horde and alliance capitals with frostwyrms. Similiar to how garrosh WoD setup was all in the books
The issue is WHY Arthas woke up.
The real answer is because they wanted to do an Arthas expac, but in universe it was just coincidental in the same way finding pandaria was just coincidental
For other expansions, we have a clearer cause and effect relationship. Wrathion and Kaizdormu caused WoD, AU Guldan caused Legion, Sargeras and Sylvanas caused BFA and Sylvanas caused Shadowlands
MoP and Dragonflight are the weakest because it's just us randomly finding these islands when their magical cloaking drops. MoP at least the continent is totally irrelevant and just a backdrop to political warfare but dragonflight is pretty bad trying to make this randomly appearing island feel relevant by linking it back to the established content(timeways and emerald dream)
TBC and Cata were some known players making moves for a while offscreen. They were offscreen but ACTIVE so it makes sense things would advance
The scourge was active....in the plaguelands. Arthas himself was doing nothing and continued doing nothing until blizzard wanted to use him to sell an expac
And they sold 2 shitty books about it ruining his character thanks to Christopher Goldbergstein
Mop story and zone design was great
>wrath kiddy calls other redditors
the lore started getting retconned hard during TBC
Wrath had it's own problems too
Nice reading comprehension, buddy.
gameplay yes thats when wow engine was getting old. story wise wrath was as dogshit as other any xpac
So did they fire all the shitty lore writers and left with only slightly competent ones?
>the bluehair freaks who didn't know the lore and were retconning everything got fired
OH NO BROS IT'S OVER
they fired only the blue ones
all the other colours on the spectrum remained
did the chud who turned the undead into fluffers for his insert fricking sylvanas get fired too?
>WoW lore in 2023
You mean those San Francisco MCU writers turning WoW into a fricking MCU slop movie? Whew. Good riddance
>The new expansion will be very story focused
>please trust us we're taking this seriously
>We're firing the Lore team though
Them firing the current lore team IS them taking it seriously.
the lore team under metzen got corrupted, they had to purge them
considering the lore of the last 4 or mor expansions, if you want a good one you need to fire those fricktards first
To be fair Metzen is the only lore team WoW needs.
Well that's a good thing though, considering the lore team was actively fighting against the actual lore
Story focused doesn't matter, they claimed the Jailer was behind everything because the Marvel obsessed writers just had to have their own Thanos.
it's damaged the series beyond repair story wise.
the Lore Team gave us great hits like
>sylvanas
>all of shadowlands
>all of dragonflight
Thats a sign of taking this seriously. Fire all the managers feminist wives and replace them with real writers.
somebody should check if these people are still working at blizzard now after the layoffs
what the frick has the lore team been doing for over a decade? that's right, fricking up the game
is one of them your uncle? why do you give a damn about some purple haired they/them who put androgynous drag queen lizardmen in the game?
>Lore team then: Metzen and some other people from other departments giving ideas.
>Lore team since Metzen left: Several professional writers and several narrative designers.
People completely hate and loathe everything made after Metzen left. Why? Because before we knew it was just a dude doing whatever he wanted. People did not care it was bad. After, it was just straight up sheer incompetence to have an entire team of people dedicated to something that became worse year after year.
Lore team back then were a bunch of fa/tg/uys who were metal fans and loved RPG, good capeshit pre OMD and Identity Crisis, and PC games
I mean this is the lore team that brought us crippled dragon trannies, not like anything of value is being lost.
the less cringe and overconvoluted story the better
the "lore team" prob finished their script then fired them after
They better have fired them all including the self insert Danhaur or whatever his name is.
>firing people after committing to better story telling is tone-deaf
or it means the current team was fricking awful at their jobs
>we're at the point where people are nostalgic for CHRIS FRICKING METZEN AND HIS WRITING
we are so fricked
Didn't nu-lorewriters write off racial gear?
If yes, good riddance
It's time RTS bros, they are gonna throw the MMO to the trash and make the proper WarCraft 4 that will never acknowledge WoW
>It's time RTS bros
pls no, leave SC2 alone, the game is in a good state now and it's staying that way specifically because Blizzard doesn't pay attention to it at all. Would I have liked a couple more coop commanders? Sure but the ones we did get were good and we got like 18 of them.
SC2 campaign and story will never get unfricked though. You're talking purely multiplayer balance issues which is a niche concern for competitive RTS players only.
Yeah but I don't care about the single-player, I play every day for the multiplayer.
You're in a thread about a lore team getting axed lol.
Yeah god forbid I play a GAME for its GAMEPLAY.
Starcraft 1 or Warcraft 3 wouldn't have been as big as they were without the campaigns or the story. Multiplayer-gameplay only gays will never understand this fact.
And was the WC3 crowd sticking around for years and years after the fact because they were playing campaign over and over? No if anything the thing that kept WC3 relevant long after it stopped mattering was DOTA matches.
and, you know, custom campaigns
Custom campaigns no. Custom maps, yes. And last I checked, shit like Mafia Wars, Angel Arena, Battleships, and DBZ Tribute are not exactly WC3's story. I enjoyed that era, I wish I was still in it, but what kept us around was retooling the game to play modes it never was originally intended for.
>This is why I said you don't understand why campaigns and story context in an RTS are important.
They're only important to initially bring people in, they're not going to keep people years later.
>They're only important to initially bring people in
Right, that's a huge aspect to the success of a game and that was my point.
The multiplayer was literally built on the back of the campaign. They compliment each other. People played WC3 for the campaign first, loved it, and stayed for the multiplayer.
This is why I said you don't understand why campaigns and story context in an RTS are important.
Except that custom games were more popular than actually playing the rts, so the campaign had absolutely nothing to do with that
People were playing dota because they like dota, not because of the wc3 campaign that was nothing like dota. Hence why now dota is still alive and wc3 is dead
see
Custom games would have never taken off if there weren't people initially drawn to the game by the campaign
This is demonstrably false because LoL and DotA 2 took off for tens of millions of people who never touched WC3
People can and did pick up the game just for custom games with their friends.
> LoL and DotA 2
Yes but those aren't RTS games.
>People can and did pick up the game just for custom games with their friends.
Literally much later after the game was already successful and there were custom games made by the people who initially picked up the game you idiot. This revisionist history by multiplayer only NPCs is not going to change the fact that WC3 became what it is thanks to the campaign existing.
I want them to ignore literally everything that ever happened in Warcraft prior to this moment in time and just make a completely fresh new game with orcs and humans in it. Just call the game Warcraft.
The wow lore team tripled in recent year all pozzed gays why do people keep trying to spin these based decisions as bad? The wow lore team was small as shit back in classic with a tight focused team of men.
Burning Crusade was when Metzen decided to just flip the whole Eredar and Sageras plot for no reason. An entire universe full of new things he could invent and he just decided to dig up the foundation already built. He just doubled down after the backlash and decided all wc3 lore didn't matter.
>people were getting paid 120K + tip per year for the Shadowlands story.
Its actually amazing how they managed to grind a company which was essentially a seal of quality to dust.
You actually need to be an incredibly shit human being if you are this good at ruining good things.
Things had been getting bad for a long time, but its legitimately impressive just how badly Shadowlands retroactively ruined the entire franchise.
There's a huge detachment in large companies between the person being paid and the money generated by their work.
It really doesn't matter, it's too late.
The damage those people have done is too deep and lasting.
Its literally too late. They should all have been fired after TBC/WotLK and then retconned it all with a WC4 release and WoW2, but instead we got something as lazy as fricking cata, panda, blonde orc cumdumpster vs menstrual corpse rodeo and shitlands.
Do people like Danuser?
No, hes a fat marvel obsessed basedboy and thinks GOT S8 was good.
>Tell terrible stories
>get fired
>"But we committed to better storytelling!"
Boy, if you thought WoW's development was already a messing revolving door, you ain't seen fricking nothing yet from Microsoft's addiction to hiring contractors that can't unionize. The game has been shambling along with leprosy since Activision bought it but what you're hearing is the sound of Microsoft snapping its neck.
Time to subscribe to Final Fantasy XIV, lads!
Nah, Endwalker fricked XIV's story almost as badly as Shadowlands fricked WoW's story.
You don't just pile a four-course meal onto the fishhook when you're baiting, just a worm. Mucho texto.
>be 12 years old
>just made my night elf
>this plays https://youtu.be/BV-v9bdMQp0?si=aMZ9qxQzvAr6hF-J&t=1806
I want to go back
And now that place got burned to a crisp by some dindu. I'm glad i ditched the game in WoD because they basically figuratively and literally raped all the night elf zones and lore in general under danuser. Good fricking riddance.
>Blizzcon is literally just sending Metzen out there to talk about his ideas for twenty minutes and about he has a plan and how he's three expansions ahead
>People here were going apeshit salivating over Metzen and calling him their savior
I thought WoW players were shitting on Metzen by the end of his first tenure at Blizzard?
What part of "you don't know what you had until it's gone" do you motherfrickers not understand? That as dumb as Metzen's ideas were, they were dumb from the perspective of a nerd who spent too much time staring at 80s metal album covers and imagining a backstory behind the drawing, instead of what we have now.
Yeah, I for one will take “never ending cycles of corruption and redemption and then more corruption” over “gay, non-binary dragons in wheel chairs in a universe where they can heal any non-fatal injury” any day
healing permanent disabilities is usually impossible or requires some pretty serious magic in these kinds of settings, like unironically might be easier to steel an abled body or force yourself to reincarnate than to heal your twisted up moron body
Shut the frick up you megatard fangoober.
Everyone was shitting on Metzen back then even. I clearly remember how Thrall was memed to oblivion by even the biggest normalgays, and it was widely known that he was a burned out hack, still lingering on his WC3 days, as all people do is repost his drawings from back there. Its a completely different person from what he used to be.
Do you know why this metzen shit is happenning? Because it turned out not even trannies want that crap blizzard churned out with Chorogonslop. This is why you have like 4 versions of classic, because nostalgiagays are the main audience again. Retail is completely obliterated now, only played by roleplayers and le professionels payed by blizzard. The rest of idiots are Asmon-esque collectorgays who pay "pros" to clear the content for them.
If these people actually gave two fricks about the game, they would never under any fricking circumstance would give any goddamn bread crumble to tigole back then. When that happened that israeli mofo fired numerous people DURING vanilla development and replaced them with his poopsock friends. TBC comes around and guess what? The content sucks, 60 to 70 is a slog. The zones are atroicious, the story does not make any sense, raiding is praised by now 40+ Gen x fricks like preach, as classic proved it how atrociously bad it actually was and everything else was nostalgia.
>as classic proved it how atrociously bad it actually was
Then why is it far, far more popular than anything they've released for the last several expansion?
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug
Metzen was probably a death-blow in and of himself since his reintroduction and long-term plan fricked whatever Dragonlands might have been moving towards. Switching from one flavor of food poisoning to another, I know, but with his tenure at WoW already previously maligned as some of the worst storytelling in the game I imagine he wasn't welcome to anybody except people desperate to get WoW "back on track" to a previously established standard of mediocrity.
Oh no not the Blizzard writers, how can we possibly do without them?
this b***h is now ingesting crystal dynamics
>infesting
They fired people that were doing nothing. Good.
>immediately after Blizzard has committed to better storytelling is pretty tone-deaf
Funnily enough, that statement is tone-deaf when it equates to saying
>we know we haven't been doing our jobs for over 10 years but we'll definitely start doing it now
Remember when WOW was a game about the horrors of war?
I don't, no
That was one expansion, Cataclysm, and most people consider it one of the worst expansions.
>Vanilla
You wouldn't even know that the Alliance and Horde are hostile to each other because they're so busy dealing with problems in their own backyard to pay attention to the other side
>TBC
They aren't on the same side but both are more focused on the Outland threat
>Wrath
They might as well be on the same side, the real start of the "Alliance and Horde team up every other expansion" meme
>Cata
This was the actual start of the PUTTING THE "WAR" BACK IN WARCRAFT meme. And it sucked.
>he was obviously corrupted
But not by an evil god. His corruption was entirely internal, he idolized a brutal savage and felt that that was the only TRUE way to be an orc.
>whole fight is a yogg reference
>hurrrr he’s totally sane and uncorrupted right now
>come up with a counter argument
>or just take their argument and put "hurr" in front of it
Based but Garrosh canonically was not corrupted at all by the remains of Y'sharraj and was simply always moronic.
>hurrr i’m receiving visions and dreams and voices from old gods but it’s no big deal probably
>hurr
I'm sorry Anon but canonically, he was not corrupted by Y'sharraj and the devs then explicitly confirmed this themselves.
You're free to shit on the writers as much as you want, I do to, but I'm just stating a fact.
he’s corrupted in game, later tweets said he wasn’t corrupted, if it’s not in the game it’s not cannon
>he’s corrupted in game
post proof that isn't you making an inference.
he’s obviously corrupted and his tentacle model is called GarroshCorrupted which made everyone kek at the bad writing as soon as it hit the ptr
>wow Historian
what the frick do you even do after you get laid off and the only thing you ever knew was some fricking game lore. Learn to code? holy frick good luck Black person that ship has sailed 10 years ago. Theres 500 applications to any single position and 90% of them are fake listings for the company to show good numbers to stakeholders. Not to mention you are now competing with thousands of other people who have been suddenly laid off for that sweet burger flipping position along with the infinite imports of mystery meat. Holy frick how is shit so fricked up yet so calm.
Their lied about their credentials then, so they'll just lie again.
>WoW Historian
turns into
>Former Integrity Advisor to a Multi-Billion Dollar Media Franchise
You list yourself as a game writer which is still a good position to be in at another company, provided you aren't second-guessed every five seconds. What're you doing, dude? They're bad at their job (WoW writing is appalling and always has been) but it's a fancy, fellating way of saying they write for the game.
>and the only thing you ever knew was some fricking game lore.
Presumably the experience from working within the company, oversight, managing and reviewing the work of the other team members and directly collaborating them.
It's obviously all bullshit since this is Blizzard but if they were actually doing work, you could easily apply that knowledge to plenty of other corporate positions.
basically
WoW lore has been fricked since AT LEAST the end of wotlk. I also subscribe to the view that the warcraft lore was fricked from the moment they decided to make it an mmorpg as well.
WoW could never portray war because the game was never set up for it. No, ganking low level players is not "war". Here's how you do it:
>The Barrens and Ashenvale are now the endgame where players go on patrols, do objectives for honour, build, maintain, and destroy each other's towns and encampments, and anything else. The zones are also fricking humongous
>The major cities are now almost entire player run and managed
dumb women write the game now so you won’t ever see it
Isn't this thread about their writing team being laid off THO?
Please forgive him he's been crying about SJWs in the game's developers for years and now has no idea what to do now that they're provably gone. And he's paid no attention to the actual fricking feds at the company's top
Ok but having neat lore doesn't address the fact that the game hasn't been fun to PLAY for a long time. I say this as someone that actually liked Legion as it was current content and not just in hindsight, Legion was the last time the game was actually fun for people (they just didn't like the grind involved in it), because the Artifact weapons gave them lots of fun buttons to press and they haven't had those buttons since.
metzen will save WoW
anyone moronic enough to think this isnt the case just needs to look at how RTD is saving dr who
WoW lore doesn't matter at all. Blizzard could just recon everything, go back to orcs vs humans or the return-return of the lich king where everyone if fighting against the scourge again, and literally no one except a few schizos would care
They can just mail out post-it notes that say corruption for each player to stick on their monitor and forget about putting a story in from now on.
Custom maps were literally just free games back then. The world no longer has a use for them because plenty of actual real free games are out there. Why play a custom map when you can just play League, CS2, PUBG, Fortnite, and so on?
Unironically because the standalone free games tend to suffer from extreme feature creep in a way the old maps didn't due to limitations on how much shit you can put into a single map.
Then why does that matter with SC2? Everyone already bought it long ago, and if they didn't it's free now. You're already in, what's there now is multiplayer which is the currently relevant part.
Dude no 13 year old is gonna play custom maps in a new RTS.
Who the frick cares what 13 year olds think, they don't even play the RTS genre to begin with. Literally only millenials and Gen X plays those kinds of games. That group of teens up all night playing WC3 custom maps back in the day are all closing in on being 40. I should know, I was part of that group and I'm 37 now.
>Who the frick cares what 13 year olds think, they don't even play the RTS genre to begin with
An awful lot of people I know that played WC3 played it when they were teenagers.
Yeah, and how old are they now?
The part I'm focusing on that you seem to be missing is that the teenagers of the late 90s to early 2000s were not the same kind of people as the teenagers of now. You're acting like the dad giving his kid Super Mario on NES and going "well I liked it as a kid so obviously you will too!"
How many teenagers played RTS before WC3 was made? Why in the frick would you ever base your development decisions off this shit?
>Then why does that matter with SC2
Wings of Liberty campaign was actually alright. Also Blizzard product sells of the brand name nowadays. The quality of the product doesn't matter, see Diablo 4.
>warcraft "lore"
the jailer was actually controlled by the elementals who are the real evil guys!
but the elementals were controlled by the titans who are the real evil guys!
but the titans were controlled by the ancients who are the real evil guys!
but the ancients were controlled by the Precursors™ who are the real evil guys!
These are the only layoffs im genuinely happy about, holy shit WoW lore is such dogshit
>lore team
I'm appalled that any of these people still had a job after Shadowlands to begin with.
Imagine actually paying someone to come up with that shit.
There's no doubt in my mind that Microshill will continue with the pozzed shit but it's nice to see some comeuppance
I think it'll depend on the staff that remains at Blizzard after the cuts but it's probably a safe bet. The whole company is probably infested with that kind of ideological rot at the very root.
The current lore is dogshit le subversion and gays everywhere.
I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Have you seen the moronic shit that modern Blizzard has pumped out since WoD? All the moronic retcons and new things?
>Multiple timelines(but it's totally not a multiverse guies)
>Illidan was a super secret good guy. Ignore the enslavement and attempted genocide.
>Yogg and Cthun are dead. Ignore Yogg being active in Legions prepatch event quest.
>There is not only 1 new secret Old God, but another SUPER secret one in this dagger.
>Everything in Shadowlands. I don't want to write a novel here to explain why Shadowlands is shit. I quit the moment I freed Garrosh on heroic. Have not came back since.
>Fur Affinity Dragons. This one ensured I would literally just not play WoW ever again.
They only fired red shirt guy kind of people every main writer that's responsible for what you mentioned either didn't update their linkedin/xitter or is still on the team
Are allied races still locked behind Legion/BfA grinds?
Yeah everyone's celebrating like the lore should now be fixed, but it was likely the last few white neckbearded dudes who actually gave a shit and told Danuser to go easier on the waifugayging.
Meanwhile all the brown strippers and trannies likely stayed so they could shove more gay centaurs and gay frogs in the game and come up with a way to make established characters gays and troons.
>Verification not required.
The introduction of M+ alone catapults Legion toward the top.
That and people had been waiting since Vanilla for a Burning Legion expansion
M+ is fricking moronic.
No, I DON'T want to run the same handful of 5 mans over and over again with increasing numbers and various buffs to mobs and/or debuffs to the player, while being on a timer. All that for a chance at a single piece of loot at the end. Allowing them to give gear better than most raid gear was a mistake. Sometimes even BiS comes from these places. Everything about it feels designed to keep up engagement metrics instead of fun.
Last great expansion was Wrath of the Lich King.
Last good expansion was Mists of Pandaria.
Last minimum acceptable expansion was Legion.
If you have any taste, you quit in Warlords of Draenor. If you stuck around through Battle for Azeroth, Shadowlands or Dragonlight, you're a moron.
I'm moronic, and Shadowlands was so bad even I quit a month in.
>Wrath
>great
Lmao everyone realized Wrath was trash once Wrath classic came out
Mists was top tier though
The things that were wrong with Wrath are things that were wrong with the franchise. Dungeon finder, flying mounts, etc. It had god-tier story, amazing zones, fantastic raids and events.
Things that were wrong with the franchise THAT STARTED WITH WRATH other than flying
>God tier story
Lmfao
>amazing zones
Empty and worthless since you just raidlog
>fantastic raids
Classic debunked this
>and events
What event, fricking jousting? That vehicle dogshit?
>lmfao
If you weren't a zoomer frick, then yes, the conclusion to Arthas's story was hype for fans
>muh raiding
Confirmed homosexual. The zones themselves were a massive step up from anything anyone had ever seen.
>muh classic
A bunch of burnouts returning to raids that they did a million times before don't find them fresh? What a shock. Classic was a mistake. You can't recapture those moments, they're gone.
>hurdur what event???
Undead invasion, Battle for Undercity, etc.
5/10 troll
>some fans were hype
gays were hype for GoT ending too that doesn't make it good. Wrsths story was atrocious
>Doesn't raid
Oh I see you're just a shitter. No wonder you can't actually talk about the game like a real human
>Classic doesn't count
Absolute cope, the game sucked and classic outted it as sucking. You're coping on nostalgia while reality is right here
>undead invasion
Lasted a few days before it was turned off
>battle for undercity
A shitty questline that was babys first taste of phasing
>started WoW in 2020
>considers playing classic the same as playing the real thing
>unimpressed with older expansions
I wish your whole generation would 40% yourselves already.
>Battle for Undercity
the exact moment wow became capeshit
Jesus can people frick off with the wrath nostalgia. Naxx rehash, TOC and ICC were not fantastic and the story was a mess.
No Nerubian/Anub'Arak storyline, writers can't decide if Arthas is Ner'Zhul or a combination of both, Alliance/Horde fighting at ICC of all places.
You forgot Ulduar, which doesn't have a single good boss and ends with a shitty add fight
I haven't played WoW since Cata, but I remember really liking Ulduar. The tank section at the beginning was a lot of fun, and I remember the bosses being interesting. I also remember so many people in my raid being absolutely moronic, constantly bringing up the regen on that one flower boss as if that was the reason we were wiping, completely ignorant that getting that regen buff down to a single stack was what the first part of the fight was all about and that you couldn't do anything about the last stack. We explained that shit so many times.
>liking vehicle dogshit
Stopped reading right there. Aquire taste shitter
Why does everyone shit on TOC? It was literally the thing raiders have literally always b***hed that they want, a raid that cuts out all the bullshit fat of trash between bosses and having your gy right outside of the raid.
TOC is to its core the thing raiders want, a single room where the bosses are one after the other so you can go in, get your loot, and leave.
Only the Val'kyr Twins is particularly fun to fight. No one likes the Faction Champions encounter.
Super shitty fights.
That's what I wanted because for me raiding was always a means to get gear for pvp.
When they made pvp a totally separate part of the game from pve then it killed all my interest in raiding. Then they made it so gear didn't matter in pvp at all so there was no incentive to doing arenas or RBGs and you could never have that feeling of power over other players from being more of a no life nerd so I lost interest in pvp too. If I want to play a game that is perfectly fair where RPG and progression mechanics don't exist then there are way better options.
They only did that in Legion
Well Legion is the last time I even really played this shit game besides my brief foray into Shadowlands.
Wraths only good story was like 2 kino quests in howling fjord or some shit with Indiana Jones. I hate Tbc/Wrath/Cata/Legion homosexual so much.
Wrath classic isn't Wrath, much like how Classic wasn't Vanilla. It's not like there were buyable tokens in Wrath, after all. If you ever get to MoP classic, you will see a dip and people claiming that it wasn't as good as they thought, regardless of the actual quality of the expansion back when it was being released.
It's literally the same
Tokens didn't make Wrath questing dogshit, tokens didn't make the raids dogshit, tokens didn't make the pvp balance dogshit
At best you can claim tech was more limited in 2007, but that doesn't change that Wrath was mogged its successors, just an excuse for why it was mogged
It literally isn't. Quit talking out of your ass. That's like saying Classic is the same as vanilla and that everyone is just min maxxera that buy gold.
Mists has lots of issues, and people will be reminded of them. It certainly has its good points, but it'll be a good wakeup call. Hope you buy tokens to have enough money for shit too.
It literally is
The issue with Wrath classic is that the game is boring and shallow, this has nothing to do with the token and was the same before they added the token
There is plenty of shit happening in Wrath classic that wasn't present at all in the base game, such as people mixing specific talents and using multiple consumables that werent a thing in Wrath. At least it isn't BC classic, where people realized there actually is frick all to do and had the worse numbers of all the classics, hence why they didnt bother keeping a server. Though I imagine Vanilla Classic will always be the most popular one.
>minmax talents and consumables weren't in original wrath
What the frick am I reading
YOU might not have been min maxing because you were a dumb kid but plenty of people were.
The only difference between tbc raidlogging and Wrath raidlogging is Wrath has better raids, but it's still worse than later expacs and retail in that regard
Listen you stupid Black person, you don't know a god damn thing about what you're talking about. Tokens weren't a thing, bidding 30k gold on a BiS epic wasn't a thing, minmax skill trees with different builds based off using consumables that still worked from vanilla when servers weren't a thing, people finding niche builds that weren't present in wrath back in the day thanks to all this weird shit wasn't a thing, and you're so stupid you just spew the same bullshit instead of thinking for yourself. I'm done, you can say what you want, but I'm not replying to any more of your posts, and if you do get a reply, it won't be from me.
Lmao copium
People praise Mists for the class design and raids. And any raid post-heroic Ragnaros is more or less a "modern" raid, so the MoP raids haven't aged as shittily as vanilla through Wrath.
Some classes were gutted going from Mists to WoD and still haven't recovered.
T14 was legitimately bad content and ToT is mid, it won't hold up.
Plus the storm of dailies in early MoP, although if they launch with 5.4 world drops people won't actually experience how bad gathering 90 lesser charms 1-2 at a time from dailies was, but I'll never forget
Tier 14 was heart of fear, right? It takes balls to try and say that was a bad raid
T14 was all 3 of the MoP launch raids and Amber Shaper is one of the worst fights they ever made
>mogushan vaults
Not amazing but a solid into tier
>terrace of endless spring
Eh first fight was fun 2nd was shit I always hated doing it
>heart of fear
Overall great
While I'm at it I'll do the other two:
Throne:
Great
Seige:
Great other than spoils of pandaria
MSV had 2 training dummy bosses and a shitty meme end boss, it sucked
Terrace had 3/4 terrible fights. Normal Sha does nothing while heroic Sha is a massive slog that still does nothing
Heart of Fears entire backend sucks. Add CC fight, shitty vehicle fight and then Empress is just obviously unfinished because it has 1 mechanic
All 3 raids are half or more bad fights.
>Amber Shaper
Don't remind me.
I'll remind you of dark animus too
MoP had awful gimmick fights. At least in SoO spoils wasn't hard so you got past it fast, Amber Shaper and Dark Animus were shit fights and massive walls on heroic
I actually liked Dark Animus. I had fun with that fight. Throne of Thunder was a dope raid.
>regardless of the actual quality of the expansion back when it was being released.
Enjoy your endless Siege. Only Warlock mains claim that the Panda shit was good.
every expansion is shit, only classic/vanilla was good. accept the truth.
>If you have any taste, you quit in Warlords of Draenor
If you have any tatse you would have been playing DAoC or some other pre-wow MMO when WoW came out, never catch the WoW bug, and quit the genre shortly later, after WoW did irrepairable damage to it.
Non one with any taste played WoW. It was like the Wonder Bread of MMOs.
There is no saving retail WoW. The only way is to scrap it all and start fresh with WoW 2. Also hire actual good writers.
it's still not enough. I want the entire company turned inside out
As if they care about lore
how the frick did they have MULTIPLE lore historians that gave BfA and Shadowlands the OK?
>WoW writers being able to write a competent story without stealing from WarhammerFantasy, Warhammer40k and Tolkien's Legendarium
Impossible.
If you asked Chatgpt to produce an intentionally badly written and clichéd storyline it would still shit out a better storyline than anything the WoW team has made.
It's a crime that they got paid to produce such filth, they should be made to pay the company back.
>firing so many people from the lore team
>team
There's a TEAM of people writing this schlock? Not just a team, but a team so large that a significant number of them can be fired and the leftovers can still be considered a team?
Shit, maybe their problem was having too many people.
>Story where your character has no part to play
Wait really? What the frick and WoW peoples like this? Why? You might as well watch a movie then, what's the point of an rpg if your character is nowhere to be seen in the story?
Have you not played the game since Cata? Because since MoP your playable character has been a main part of the story. It even became an issue in Legion by making everyone "The Special" or Chosen One. Like with the Artifact weapons signifying the character is the "leader" of their class order hall.
You still are not a character in the main story just a weapon or a plot device used by the real main chaaracters.
>WoW lore team layoffs
Hell, It's About Time.
>lead lore historian wrote a book
>it had many inaccuracies and retcons in it
>proving that even the historians don't know their own lore
>they all get fired
I call this a win
>Shadowlands was so fricking bad that people don't even talk about Dragonflight
Shadowlands is really fricking terrible in nearly every way. Between the moronic storylines, the moronic retcons, the delays, the obviousness of the expansion being aborted and rushed out the door by the FIRST patch. Oh, and lets not forget the game actually did feel like a second job with all the shit you needed to do every single day to keep up to date.
Personally the thing that chaps my ass about it the most, it there WAS so much potential and of course they did dick all with it.
AI could write the story, how could you tell the difference
There would be less random diversity quests about crippled scalegays.
>historians
Black person it's shit they make up on the fly it's not real lmao
Wasn't nearly everything about Deathwing as we know him now added retroactively to his character in Cata? Before he was just a Horde unit.
No, some of it came from Lord of the Clans, and he was always the Black Dragonflight leader.
Let go you bunch of losers
This isn't the game you like anymore. Go outside. Start a family. WoW is long gone
>entire defias conflict was solved in 2 quests
>now the defias are led by a bourgeoisie woman who loves the crown and noble class
>entire gilneas conflict was solved in 2 quests
>now the city of gilneas is led by a woman and the forsaken get to visit
>entire forsaken have no leader conflict was solved in 2 quests
>now the forsaken are led by a woman who is personal friends with all of the alliance leadership
This story does not have a single drop of testosterone anywhere in it anymore. This is the consequence of hiring for diversity out of a particular state on the west-most part of the USA.
>scarlet crusade somehow returned and took over gilnaes
lmao
and their new leader was a girlboss too
>lil chuddy can't handle strong women being in charge
Many such cases!
More like boring as shit women. The Gilneas girl isn't even a Worgen.
Forsaken is a council like the Dwarves now.
now the question is whether they laid off the c**ts and soi addicts or the last bit of testosterone that was in their creative teams
Yeah big mystery there. Hey who is Activision Blizzard's current parent company again?
considering all the layoffs and how much everyone has been ragging on WoW since BFA they were bound to clean house
needless to say the Earthen and Arathi in TWW will be led by a troony dwarf elemental and Lesbian Wonder Woman respectively
Do WoWbabs still hate vulpera now that worse things have happened to their game?
why dont you have a nice day adam?
The entire allied race system was a wash but I don't play retail anymore so I don't care enough to be mad about it.
Turns out nobody plays them so people stopped caring
After Shadowlands it was very deserved.
Like im the sort that could roll with the BC retcons and liked Pandaland and even i consider Shadowlands Setting ruining garbage.
Legion would been fine if it hadn't done the "Final World" stuff and just had it be another invasion, this time with Gusto, and then had it end at Broken Shore/Tomb of Sargeras with repelling the Legion for now rather then the OHHHH IM GOOOIING COOOOSMIIIIIIIIIC shit.
>"Final World" stuff
citation needed
argus would be perfect if done on much more, massive and epic scale
just imagine some random counter on shitzard site coutning azeroth population, going constantly down
getting feel that you're on borrowed time and you need to assault legion capital city and win before demons overwhelm azeroth completly. You battle on argus and inside raid reflected on azeroth forming lst defence to buy as much time as possible
then, seeying that dark cloud around azeroth, the one with sargeras inside, would be much impactful as "we are out of time"
If i remember it right was a shout during a Pre-release event or something where some minor boss was taunting how Azeroth was "the only world left", presumably the Outlands "didn't count" so can, could also just been lying cause Demon, but i definitely remember Loregays discussing it back when Legion was current.
yeah, it was a Satyr that shouted that
2 patches later on Antorus we were thwarting Legion invasions across several worlds that were yet to be destroyed by them
ie the demon was lying
You don't know the setting if you think shadowlands changed anything
It literally just made dreadlords double agents, which they had been like 4 times before
Malfurion is now indisposed as a result.
the day of reckoning for those with fake jobs is finally here. if you feel like you don't do that much at your job, prepare to lose it.
The first step in the right direction in a long time. Now retcon the gay shit and the horror will be over.
Either they declare current WoW done and launch an alternate back from scratch and somehow manage to put together something as good along that line, or they roll a W4 instead.
Otherwise it dont do anything. However I can see people to hype it up for a while.
moronic looking gear in classic wow was soulful. Transmogging shit in nu-wow is gay and lame.
Transmog is great, at least it shows YOU EARNED the damn thing
Didn't they make a giant book to finally solidify the lore and then the next expansion they retconned a bunch of shit?
yes
Yep, they're useless now. Glad I bought them.
if nothing else, Danuser should be fired for this alone
>Literally all the same zones but some spots have changed
>they're all parallel dimensions anyway so position doesn't even exist
Wow what a retcon
>write books from the perspective of servants of the forces of Order
>have a servant of the forces of Death read it and go "that's moronic, everyone knows Death is more important than Order"
>fans shit their pants in rage
I can't wait for the Void Lord's side of the story
>From My Point of View, the Titans are evil.
Reminder Sylvanas did nothing wrong.
Frick furries and frick the hippie knife ears (the red naked ones are alright)
wow lore has been shit ever since they retconned orcish horde in wc3 to make them WE WUZ GUD BOIS WE WUZ TRICKED
I will do it in one person for slightly above average CEO wage.
once legendary company, the creators of masterpieces that forever left a mark in the video game industry, bought solely for the sake of the division that is responsible for the development of mobile game three in a row
laughably
Why would you have multiple "historians" instead of just having series bibles that writers can consult when writing like normal? What' the fricking point of having multiple living people doing the job that a couple of books can do just as well?
>make an internal Confluence site where lore is maintained like the external fan wikis
>make sections that are actually relevant and important mandatory reading material based on which zone, character and storyline the teams will focus on
>hire a fricking knowledge manager to maintain that shit
nah, better hire a dozen yesmen and SMEs to just let everything get fricked up instead
I can see value in having a single guy tasked with maintaining a bible for a multimedia franchise, but there's really no excuse for a team.
>HEAR, THINK, FEEL.
Does it really fricking matter why Arthas woke up like holy shit out of all the actual grievances to have with the story this is the most unimportant and turbo autistic.
No shit he woke up because Blizzard decided it was time for the Lich king expansion. The whole point of TFT was to set up WoW.
>end of TFT
>Arthas is weakened, sleeps in northrend to recover
>Blizzard decides its time for good expansion
>Ok he's recovered now he's woken up
Literally nothing wrong with that
>"thing just happens" is good when it's for my gay crush
lol
Wrath writing sucks, that's all. Wrathbabies need to stop being uppity about it
Nah I'm not a warthbabby but of all the (justified) criticism of Wrath this one is a big nothingburger
why didnt he wake up when the horde and the alliance were busy dealing with outland and/or the Sunwell
he literally did
he did after the sunwell was restored moron-kun
>tell Darkhan to look for sunwell power remnants
>order Amnennar to increae scourge rpesence in kalimdor
>comamnd Kel'Thuzad to do various things, coming to plaguelands
>again command Darkhan to trap and raise blood knights as vampires
>start constructing massive army, reanimating a shitlaod of mosnters and build up Icecrown
>order death knights to lure out Tirion
>use frostwyrm to siege hordr and alliance capitals, posion the supplies (grain) sended there when cities were udner necropolis and frost wyrms siege, jsut to lure and type out potential heroes to eb targetted and reanimated as scourge champions
>vampries raising yp arugal back
>wotlk starts here
>both landings except for 1 forsaken one is under heavy siege
>nearly every zone sees a giant loses at start, only to be lwoered by player character presence
>even after player character intervence, argent crusade cannot reach ICC by foot, each attempt resulting in massive loses
>a whole aerial assault force is reduced to small group when reaching lich king himself
the only moron, is you
they retconned that, since he was awaken in vanilla.
Northrend if it ever followed what happened in TFT, Arthas would be facing the blood elves, legion and Old Gods and both factions going there.
Naxxramas is only at the plaguelands because he was dealing with another conflict at northrend that was taking all of the scourge's reinforcements at EP and Kalimdor
this entire lore team must be purged.
Sometimes I get upset when I remember how they permanently erased Arthas while letting Sylvanas go scott free, but it just means he's allowed to be free of the writing team.
Sylvanas is in hell doing endless penance
Plus her boytoy is permanently dead just because the Jailer thought it would be funny.
That's a means of eventually bringing her back. She got a slap on the wrist for multiple genocide attempts and war crimes, even if it means serving in the afterlife.
Endless penance in hell doesn't sound like a slap on the wrist
>later expansion rolls around
>we need your help Sylvanas, if you do this, you'll be free
Not killing her means they can bring her back for a full redemption arc.
>getting upset over hypothetical scenarios
>getting upset that a villain who hypothetically does good things later and pays for their crimes is no longer a villain
>pays for their crimes
Nothing will pay for them. Blizzard will save her because she is a woman. Just stating the facts gay.
How is saving every soul you hurt not paying for them?
What exactly does she have to willingly do to get back to her life?
Nothing, she should've had her soul disenchanted just like Arthas's. Making her eyes blue and suddenly turning her good is an awful "twist", and she only got that way to begin with because the word serve triggered her. She has been doing evil things for ages and is about the same level of Arthas for being a terrible person. To make her do dailies in the maw for a few expansions won't magically absolve her war cimes.
Why would you hurt someone who wants to help instead of letting them help?
WoW lore just revolves around how many women they can get to lecture you for an entire expansion and it doesn't seem like that's going to end with the new one.
and before that it was warhammer fantasy but worse
I liked that the last patch had two separate instances of the ice b***h trying to talk her brothers down and they both tell her to shut the frick up.
I like the new Gilneas questline where I had to sit in a boat with 3 holes talking about god knows what. This expansion was the worst for having to watching cutscenes with only women over and over.
>>lore was so terrible blizzard had to promise to improve it
responsible for that lore are fired
whats the problem here?
they're not getting replaced and also the game's staff in general was lobotomized
I believe in the Microsoft Blizzard renaissance.
posts written by phil spencer
>Commit to better storytelling
>Fire the morons
>Tone deaf
Nah actually
Nothing they do will salvage the game while they let groups of players automate banning people with no oversight.
Can we agree that Garrosh is THE WoW character? Like him or hate him, he is one of the most well known and spoken about characters. He is one of the very few characters from WoW to be allowed be important and shape the whole of the franchise.
Unironically a better-told version of Arthas. He falls because his character wasn't strong enough to do the right things or even admit he was doing the wrong things, and at the same time, he was too strong to be diverted from the path he wanted to take. No manipulative dreadlord bullshit needed, just a perfect mix of determination and hubris that comes from having big boots to fill.
The issue with garrosh is he is comically moronic and antagonistic to others for no reason
Keep in mind his best writing, Stonetalon, is basically not canon.
Thrall is Metzen's Mary-Sue and Garrosh is Metzen's Evil Mary-Sue. I like neither.
>WoW historians have been fired
Normally this kind of thing would be bad, as these "historians" are supposed to be the ones that keep the writers on track and make sure they don't retcon a bunch of stuff or make insane lore swings that make no sense with the grand story being told.
You see them in epic fantasy series a lot and they help a tremendous amount.
But WoWs story mantra has been, at least as far back as WOTLK, to retcon whatever you need to as long as it doesn't effect the directly preceeding expansion.
Uh, wowbucks I don't think we're going to make it.
Do these people really play video games?
Yes, but it's like 3-4 hours a week at the absolute most.
Not a chance.
the previous president had good parses, streamed and sold ingame boosts (to the chagrin of his colleagues as some hambeast twitter employees were b***hing about him gaming during working hours)
this b***h already looks like she had her PA put together a grrrl gamer tweet for the announcement
I like how they keep burning through presidents.
this holy shit its a red flag when a company has gone through multiple shifts of leadership. it means nobody wants to take responsibiliy for the frickups.
trust womyn
>historians
They never stopped any of the destruction of the lore in the first place.
So there was little point to keep thing on if they were not really doing much except letting the old lore get rewritten by some corpo morons and book writers.
>Story and franchise
They are the most to blame for the garbage that keeps getting put out in books and other "stuff"
Overall MS did a good job cleaning the fat out.
>Chris Metzen
Hell be out in a year on golden parachute after locking the story down enough that he wants nothing to do with MS
I would also belive he would blow up the world in favor of WoW 2 and thus MS can totally retool that.
>WoW
>lore
They fired the entire 0 competent people working there? The horror!
WoW's lore stopped being even remotely decent when they ran out of WC3 plotlines to finish after Wrath.
>the new president of blizzard is a Latina "part of the tribe"
You cant make this shit up
The lore team was a department of that red shirt guy that was meant to make sure the writing team didn't accidentally reference a dead character as still alive or vice-versa.
It's not the writing team. It just now if you see Delaryn Summermoon in some expansion six years from now as a night elf quest giver, it'll be because the writing team forgot she's actually dead.
>Delaryn Summermoon
She's undead and in Dragonflight.
hard to feel bad for them when by all accounts they didn't actually do anything considering all the fricking retcons and terrible worldbuilding