Soooo I never played WoW .
Can someone who played WoW list the timeline and what the lore was and how it was retconed ? Or link to someone who did this ?
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
WoW retcons
Soooo I never played WoW .
Can someone who played WoW list the timeline and what the lore was and how it was retconed ? Or link to someone who did this ?
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
|
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Frick you.
fpbp
Frick off, OP.
yeah frick you too OP
Kidding man, we all love ya, Come to the game with us tomorrow eh?
OP, there have been enough retcons that you can mention any character, race or location in this thread and an anon can dig up what changed from the initial presentation to how WoW writers shat all over it.
AMA.
>in this thread and an anon can dig up what changed from the initial presentation to how WoW writers shat all over it.
Go for it.
I'm interested in the big world changing things.
>need to makea couple hour video to go through it all
Did anyone ? Post the video.
>big world changing things
We need a better, more specific starting point for that anon, because this can veer into a Jailer copypasta instead of a discussion.
>Did anyone ? Post the video
Not that I know of besides pretty much all the lore channels for the game have burned out because the last expac was so shit.
The first major retcons are Warcraft 2/3. This is mostly because the lore in Warcraft 1 was extremely barebones: evil orcs invade, good humans have to beat them.
Warcraft 2 essentially set the basis for the main lore of World of Warcraft. Biggest changes I can think of between WC2/3 and WoW are actually geographical. A lot of locations were shuffled around, some things were renamed.
First big retcon in the WoW era is the infamous draenei retcon in the Burning Crusade. Originally, the demonlord Sargeras (basically biggest villain in Warcraft) was established as an ex-Titan (greek god creator types) who went insane from the baleful influence of a demonic race called the eredar. Burning Crusade retconned this to be the other way around: it was Sargeras who corrupted the initially noble eredar race into demons so they could help him run his demon army, the Burning Legion. His background as a corrupted Titan remained the same, but they had a different demonic race (dreadlords) be responsible for the corruption.
This was all done because several major antagonists in WC3 were eredar and Blizzard liked their design and thought it would be cool for players to be able to play as them. So they basically invented good eredar called "draenei" and added them a playable race in Burning Crusade.
It's worth noting that there actually were "draenei" in WC3, introduced as natives of the orc homeworld, but the WC3 "draenei" look nothing like eredar and as part of this retcon were explained away as draenei devolved by demon magic into mutants called the "Broken."
Draenei are dumb when looking back from WC3 but they make me coom so I never had anything against them.
One small lore inconsistency I remember from W2 is mages using lightning for their normal attacks. In W3 and forwards lightning is a nature magic exclusive element and mages never use it.
Also, what's the deal with the holy light? I don't remember any established info on it in any pre-WoW lore, and in BC there were Naaru who are sort of light elementals, and apparently in more recent expansions there are light gods or some shit. I haven't been following this shit since WotLK.
Oh, and I heard they made Elune a character too.
Elune spoke throught Tyrande and she's also a robot just like the other gods
The Holy Light was just generic holy magic pre-WoW lore. I think they actually reference God, angels, and Hell in WC1.
No Light gods as of yet, just the naaru and prime naaru (bigger naaru, but we've only seen one of them and she exploded). Elune possessed Tyrande in a Shadowlands cutscene to explain to her goddess-sister why she let thousands of night elves burn to death in Teldrassil on purpose. Turns out it was a misunderstanding. Oops!
I just remember light being mentioned a lot around WotLK, like in ICC Arthas saying "Light won't save you here lmao"(it did actually) and in Arthas book it was stated that he tried to heal Muradin when he was hit with Frostmourne prison shard and the light didn't answer. I'm thinking too much about this I suppose.
Interesting. I also know WC3 lore.
:actually geographical. A lot of locations were shuffled around, some things were renamed.
I do not give a shit about that.
I think that retcon was okay and my only problem with it til dis day is we can't have broken on Alliance. Alliance really need an ugly race.
besides kul tiran women
The broken are cool as shit
Over time I learned to like the goofy male Draenei too, but the broken are miles better
The pace of retcons slow for a while after the big draenei one, partially because of the negative backlash it caused. Metzen himself personally apologized for it.
Next few expansion - Wrath/Cata/MoP - have no real retcons. Then comes WoD, which takes place in an alternate timeline and is therefore irrelevant. However, accompanying WoD was an official lore book called Chronicle which was full of retcons.
Prime among the retcons was yet another change to Sargeras's backstory. This time, instead of demons driving him insane, it's established that the existence of Lovecraft monsters called the Old Gods led him to believe that destroying the universe was the only way to defeat them. The Old Gods are old respectable lore fixtures at this point, first mentioned in WC3 manual and elaborated upon for a long time since then.
However, Chronicle also inexplicably established that the Old Gods, rather than being incorporeal extradimensional beings only capable of manifesting in physical reality as twisted monstrosities of flesh, were actually just giant octopuses that literally physically live inside of planets, created by even BIGGER and BADDER Lovecraft monsters called the Void Lords. Incidentally "void lord" had already been the name of a minor mook enemy for seven years when Chronicle was printed. Oops.
Several elements of Chronicle were then retconned almost immediately in the following expansion, Legion. These retons are relatively minor, and only notable for how quickly they followed what was meant to be the first volume of a definitive "lore bible." Primarily it involved the nature of demonic death, and if/how demons can "permanently" die. At present, we do not have any definitive answers to the question of how and if a demon can permanently die because Blizzard has provided conflicting information and refuses point-blank to elaborate when specifically asked. They do this so that they can concoct an excuse at a later point to bring back popular demon characters from past expansions whenever they want.
What really needs to be emphasized at this point is how contemptuous and disrespectful Blizzard are when it comes to their retcons. For one thing, they no longer admit to retconning. When contradictions appear in new lore, they claim that the old lore was just in-universe "flavor lore" that had been wrong the whole time. Long gone are the days of Metzen's sincere apology for the draenei/BC retcon. Now they just hate your guts for asking and wish they were working on their own game without any existing information or history to get in their way.
Incidentally, Legion was when Metzen retired.
same, I actually really like them
I miss Metzen, yeah he made garbage too at times. But even his worst is far better than the shit that the game gets now.
Not to mention his best is pretty good and made people like the lore in the first place.
Dude got lucky with wc3 and sc. That's it. Everything after that is garbage.
He made gabrage all the time and never bothered to explain how shit was so different from wc3 to wow even thought at least some damage could have been mitigated with just some explanation.
Take this book for example. It is about sunwell (literal magical fontain) somehow turning into human girl (nevemind it is elven magical portal) with no explanation while such event never happened in lore and by all rules of the setting was impossible. Then girl, which forgets everything (ofc she does) finds dragon prince to frick him (ofc she does#2) nvm that she is de-facto unanumated magical object. Then she is stolen to be drained of power (which she couldnt use to prevent het capture) and summon equivalent of super satan in the sunwell she turned from (apparently it still exist, its not only transformation and personofication but a duplication of extremely powerful one-of the kind magical source). Then she sacrafices herself to save the world. But well is still here.
Its pure shizo shit which makes no sense.
Not written by Metzen, but, nevertheless, greenlit by him.
I have all 3 of those manga.
Yeah it's pure nonsense but Anveena a cute and the paladin getting together with that cute blue dragon was nice.
that dwarven dragon hunter is appearing again in Dragonflight with his troll goons btw
Really? That's a really really old character re appearing.
Can’t stand the anveena shit. The dialogue in sunwell plateau was so unbearable
To cap this all off was years later in Legion when KJ made it to Azeroth just fine on his Star Destroyer spaceship because the Legion can do that and don't need to be summoned through massive magic portals like the sunwell
So the entire sunwell campaign made no sense anyway
Wasn't the point of the broken shore that gul'dan was using the ToS (no not terms of service) as the big magic energy source to create the portals summoning all the star destroyers?
Who knows
He ended up using the Nightwell + Eye of Amanthul anyway
And then we best him in 7.1 before the star destroyers arrived in 7.2 so it seems like they had plenty of power on their own
Oh yeah and in WoD he was able to open the gate for Archimonde and create all of Hellfire Citadel on his own so it wouldn't make sense for him needing more juice for KJ. Nightwell at least was to summon Sargeras into Illidan
The Nightwell shit was to summon Sargeras to Azeroth inside Illidan's body. Then Illidan opens a portal to the Legion homeworld and brings Sargeras to Azeroth anyway.
Yes.
Portal opened after KJ was killed afair.
That was Illidan trolling the universe by grabbing the tomb controls himself and opening the portal rather than closing it.
>That was Illidan trolling the universe by grabbing the tomb controls himself and opening the portal rather than closing it.
More that Illidan believes in inevitability. He already had a team that just took down Killy J why wait when the next defenders might be weaker?
Because that's like winning the lottery and spending every penny on lottery tickets. Killy J is nothing compared to Sargeras, and if he wasn't conveniently storing the titan pantheon in the same building as the entire control structure of the legion and his infinite rez machine, Illidan would have just doomed azeroth. As it stands he managed to get a sword shoved into the planet and destroyed every class artifact.
Illidan is too fricking based for Warcraft's modern shitshow story. Everytime he was on-screen in Legion you knew something hilarious and edgy was about to happen.
Illidan peaked at "I am my scars". Blowing up the head wind chime in front of her biggest fan cannot be topped.
Peak of moronation I guess
As usual for everything Illidan related it was terrible writing
The hell was Turalyon going to do against Illidan, he's a fricking Ret main.
Apparently crusader strike then no followup when it gets parried.
all light users are jobbers so illidan would've been weaker if he accepted turning into a lightgay
I liked that line if only because it proved Illidan was totally full of shit the whole time. He wasn't willing to sacrifice everything, he proved that when he refused the Naaru. He's just an edgelord who enjoys pretending his path is the hardest most suffering path.
God yes
>When you catch the greatest warrior of the lights sword with your bare hands, easily overpower him and laugh
It was maximum cringe edgy kino, i need an edit of illidan pinning sasuke to the wall
Correct.
Illidan used the Sargerite keystone mcguffin from the Demon Hunter quest to open the rift to Argus. The Tomb was done for at this point.
I wish I could marry a cute blue dragon too
She was pretty cute in it. And a bit of tsun
It was written by knaak the hack, and that’s why most of the lore is a shitshow, because Metzen got googly eyes for hack writers who wanted to fluff out his world and he didn’t give a shit.
>Citizen of Dalaran! Raise your eyes to the sky and observe!
I was so happy they killed ronin off .
That monologue alone made me avoid dalaran as much as possible in wrath
Here's a (You) for effort posting anon. Not OP, but found this interesting all the same
>What really needs to be emphasized at this point is how contemptuous and disrespectful Blizzard are when it comes to their retcons. For one thing, they no longer admit to retconning. When contradictions appear in new lore,
LOL did someone make a video compilation of this ?
Metzen only apologized because of how angry people were about the draenei reversal, which given that it was a complete 180 is still probably among the most egregious retcons the game has had
The other retcons neve got an apology
The most recent expansion, Shadowlands, is an unforgivable holocaust of the existing lore and is the worst-written expansion in the history of the game, which is an exceptionally competitive field.
It's difficult to convey in words how atrocious it is even when trying to explain it to people who are familiar with Warcraft, so I'm going to have to use an analogy. Imagine that, at the end of the 9th Star Wars film, they revealed that really Emperor Palpatine had been working for a bigger, badder Sith Lord the whole time and that somehow every single event of the past nine films right down to Jar Jar stepping in shit at the podrace was all part of this new villain character's master plan.
Next, imagine that Disney claimed that the introduction and defeat of this character was a "culmination of a story that began in 1977, with the very first Star Wars movie."
Then imagine that this character speaks a total of 20 words throughout the entire film consisting of phrases like "My victory is complete" and "Now you will die" and "I am the bad guy."
And finally, imagine that you are asked to take this completely seriously.
You now understand the Jailer.
Good however can you say it in WoW lore talk ?
It's just too much, man. The Jailer's plan is so convoluted and ridiculous and contrived and involves so many different threads I can't go through it all. I suggest looking it up for yourself.
Using the Light requires conviction of spirit. In ICC the Lich King was probably just trying to get the adventurers to give up hope. Arthas probably couldn't heal Muradin because he didn't really want to because at that point all he cared about were his own ambitions.
>The Jailer's plan is so convoluted and ridiculous and contrived and involves so many different threads
Pleas try to.
Okay, the best I can do is to go in reverse.
The Jailer's end goal is to remake the universe. In order to do this, he needs to access a super-machine made by an ancient progenitor race. In order to get to the realm that houses the machine, he needs five top secret disks from the five gods of the Shadowlands.
In order to get the disks, he needs a mortal champion to possess because he's trapped in Super-Hell. In order to get a mortal champion, he has his bro Denathrius tell his nathrezim (also known as dreadlords) to create the Helm of Domination, then give it to the Burning Legion, then have them use the Helm to create the Scourge on Azeroth, then wait twenty years, then tell a troll to make Sylvanas the Warchief of the Horde, then have Sylvanas go to Icecrown and break the Helm of Domination to open a portal to the Shadowlands so that a mortal can come through it and get possessed.
BUT - the Jailer also needs an army of trashcan monsters to temporarily distract one of the five gods so his possessed mortal can steal one of the disks. So in order to get this army, twelve thousand years ago he tells his nathrezim to tell Sargeras about the Void Lords, because he knew that Sargeras would create the Burning Legion and use the Titanic world-soul of the eredar homeworld, Argus, to create another evil Titan like himself, and then the nathrezim would pour death juice on the world-soul and wait for adventurers to kill it so it would go to the Shadowlands and disable the death god in charge of distributing soul power to the realms of the Shadowlands, so that all the soul power would go into Super-Hell and let the Jailer make his army.
Apparently. Kel'thuzad was in on it from the start.
They also retconned the forge of souls dungeon from wrath.
It's now a superstructure that the Jailer specifically designed to siphon Azerite out of Azeroth's soul into Icecrown Citadel and into Zereth Mortis to power the universe remaking machine. So the Jailer was mind controlling Arthas his entire tenure as the Lich King to make these structures.
oh Jesus I forgot about that
>It's now a superstructure that the Jailer specifically designed to siphon Azerite out of Azeroth's soul into Icecrown Citadel and into Zereth Mortis to power the universe remaking machine. So the Jailer was mind controlling Arthas his entire tenure as the Lich King to make these structures.
None of that is really stated. Maybe he suggested it subtly in Arthas's brain but the Jailer whined like eighteen times that the first three Lich Kings all ignored his mind control orders.
>the first three Lich Kings
I'm sorry what ? The first 3 ?
ner'zhul
arthas
bolvar
>bolvar
Oh I forgot this was even a thing.
>ner'zhul
>arthas
I counted them as 1 guy.
Remember WC 3 remember when the story of Arthus was great and frostmorn was literally a corrupting sword of evil ?
Why he needed Azerite specifically?
Because Muradin wouldn't shut up about it
it's just really powerful
>All this shit
I knew shit got really bad but jesus christ
>In order to get the disks,
WTF is this cosmic fetch quest ?!
>Helm of Domination to open a portal to the Shadowlands so that a mortal can come through it and get possessed.
What the literal frick ?
>Super-Hell
Why do you call it super hell ? Is there like a normal hell ? What makes it super ?
>Super-Hell and let the Jailer make his army.
Bloody hell what bullshit.
Either way thanks for trying anything more I need to know ?
>Jailer
Can I point out that this is the dumbest name in all of existence ? Especially that he is trapped in a prison ....
Can the writers not into English ?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jailor&redirect=no
>cosmic fetch quest
imagine writing thanos, but if the infinity stones were first introduced in Infinity War with no prior lore, and without actually creating any depth to Thanos himself. I'm almost 100% certain that's what they were going for
>helm portal
There's logic there but again, it's pulled immediately out of SL's ass and feels tacky
>Super Hell and normal Hell
there's a purgatory, that's Revendreth run by pic related and he's based. Fortunately it seems like they realized how positive the reception to Denathrius was so they're going to keep him around.
The story setup for SL is that ever since Legion and Argus' death, everyone who has died has gone to hell instead of where they're supposed to when they die
>The Jailer
He's the Jailer because he takes peoples souls and instead of giving them justice he imprisons them and tortures them until they're wrung dry of anima, which is essentially soul... blood, or are so incredibly mindbroken that they join his army.
It's uh... it's shit.
the infinity sigils being introduced in 9.1 was another retcon, im going to guess j'lor's story was originally quite different but probably still stupid.
You man the infinity stones were first introduced in endgame, there was no mention of the mcguffins in the first shadowlands patch, he just stood there mumbling about doom.
OP here.
Question if shadowlands is the afterlife ....
WTF happens if you kill someone in the afterlife ?
Do you then go to the afterlife-afterlife ?
Will this also be a location you fight monsters in ?
Will this be turtles/afterlife's all the way down ?
PS:
It is a fact that no game should have a afterlife or shit like this will happen. At least do not make the afterlife a location you can visit .. and fight the bad people who are there !
There is apparently a "final death" nonsense that is poorly explained.
I'm in the camp that believes an afterlife expansion could've been handled well.
But this one very much wasn't
Afterlife anything turns into nonsense.
In like this is a law of writing.
I literally ban the existence of the afterlife in my fiction dead is dead and there is no afterlife, can be some echos in EXTREMELY RARE SITUATIONS and a resurrection however no afterlife.
Like ultra super magic can one grant a resurrection of 1 guy or that super warlock can be talked to if you infuse his bones with super magic (hologram-ghost cut the power and he returns to dead) or demons simply are like this can be resurrected from bones if killed. However no one gets an afterlife.
The more risky version is a afterlife exists only you get rarely contacted from like your fathers ghost 1 time and nothing more.
If the afterlife becomes a raid location where you can kill the dead people in the afterlife ..... then this is a WTF moment for me.
Simply ban anything afterlife before it escalates.
Question after you kill the bad vampires who run the purgatory ?
Where the frick do they go ?
>Question after you kill the bad vampires who run the purgatory ?
>Where the frick do they go ?
When people die in the shadowlands they turn into anima and cease to exist
basically turns Shadowlands into step 2 on the mortal ladder before actual death happens
>basically turns Shadowlands into step 2 on the mortal ladder before actual death happens
Aha so this is this kind of stupid.
And since the afterlife is a place everyone can travel.
>LMFAO lets raid the people in the afterlife and kill them again LMFAO !
Killing something in Shadowlands is destroying a soul, same as anything before Shadowlands dealing with souls like Varian having his obliterated by Guldan
Man
At least Varian never had to put up with this bullshit, he gets the peace of oblivion
If you kill someone in shadowlands they "die their final death" which wasn't really explained but implied that they just become more blobs of glowing anima that everything runs off of
>that pic
GOD I WISH THAT WAS ME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>WTF happens if you kill someone in the afterlife ?
They stop existing
They return to pure soul juice with no identity
>They stop existing
>They return to pure soul juice with no identity
For 30 seconds, 24hrs or 7 days depending on respawn timer
>They stop existing
>They return to pure soul juice with no identity
So does this happen in like a lot in the afterlife ? How many wars do they have ?
Well it's been invaded by the Void before
But it seems like most of them are super old so probably not much
Maldraxxus is literally a 24/7 warzone that kills each other all the time
When they revealed Maldraxxus at Blizzcon 2019 they said that those who die like that become anima to fuel the war machines
but ingame you have to build new bodies for spirits that had theirs destroyed so it's really a toss-up what happens because Blizzard can't even keep their story straight for one single expansion
It's weird, they try to avoid talking about it as much as they can, in maldraxxus where dead people die all the time you just turn back into a soul until the land (which is made of flesh) spits out a new body for you, or you get an abomination body custom built. But at the same time, you have a bunch of characters "die" and they act like it's a big deal so frick it.
>He's the Jailer because he takes peoples souls and instead of giving them justice he imprisons them and tortures them until they're wrung dry of anima, which is essentially soul... blood, or are so incredibly mindbroken that they join his army.
This makes semi sense however being named the Jailer is still lame as frick it is like being named the mall cop.
>anima
They made that one up in the shadow lands expansion YES ?
Not only did they not make up Anima in Shadowlands (it was in Mists), they openly stated they forgot about the Anima in Mists and it's a completely different concept using the same name.
So it checks out, their writers dont know their own lore
>forgot
bunch of hacks
>they openly stated they forgot about the Anima in Mists and it's a completely different concept using the same name.
Explain this to someone who never played WoW only WC3.
Anima in Mists is basically flesh magic.
Anima in SL is soul juice.
How flesh magic works
>Thunder King points at a pool of magical manufactured blood (Anima)
>Deformed lizard dude pops out
It's magic. One of the big villains in Mists was the Thunder King, ancient dude from a race of living statues that were suffering from the Curse of Flesh. Thunder King figured out Anima magic and started reversing it because being a statue is way cooler than being a fleshbag.
in Mists, a mysterious bloodlike substance named Anima was used by the Mogu (not-mongols since Pandaria is China) to create golems and strengthen their bodies
It's learned in Throne of Thunder (big Mogu raid) that anima is the blood of Highkeeper Ra, the most important Titan Keeper on Azeroth who has been imprisoned for a very long time and bled to improve the Mogu Empire's power
Titan Keepers are big stone constructs coded by the Titans to watch over Azeroth, who is an infant titan, and man the titan facilities that keep the planet protected from other cosmic forces.
The Anima we see in Shadowlands is a different concept. It's essentially the blood of a soul. When a soul is consigned to its afterlife, doing variopus things in that afterlife cause it to sweat out of them and fuel the activities of that Afterlife.
>in Revendreth they bleed Anima out of sinful souls as part of their rehabilitation
>in Maldraxxus they beat each other up all day simultaneously to generate anima as well as train themselves since they're the Shadowlands military
>in Bastion ????? but their purpose is to carry souls to the Shadowlands
>In Ardenweald ???????
>And bled
>Titan Keepers are big stone constructs
So which one is it?
Ah yes well you see
Does not compute
yes
Curse of the flesh homie
So they are major flesh constructs?
The Mogu worked out enough until they managed to literally squeeze blood from a stone
Not every realm needs to produce net anima, Revendreth is supposed to produce the most anima and send it on to the others
That's what happens when you hire people to build off of previous lore but those people don't fricking play the game. I hate people who have zero passion for things that they work on. Opening gaming to normies was a mistake.
>forgot
More likely it's the fact that none of the current writers were with the company until very recently.
Metzen forgot everything about the lore of wc3 when he made WoW.
Cocaine is a helluva drug
>They made that one up in the shadow lands expansion YES ?
yes they did
anima is cum and is what drives the economy of the shadowlands
every soul sheds anima (or is harvested of it) and the different realms depend on it to survive
when maw cop jailer started grabbing every singel soul into the Maw that meant there was no cum for the rest of the realms so they started starving
Except for Denathrius because he's allied with the jailer so he got plenty
Super-hell is the Maw
It's an afterlife that's supposed to house the Jailer after he tried betraying the pantheon of death but he's since learned how to control of it and rules it sort of like pop culture's interpretation of Satan.
It's also used as a dumping ground for souls that are deemed to be beyond rehabilitation and the jailer tortures anyone who falls into it until they become his servant.
Everything about the Jailer is dumb.
>regular hell is Revendreth where sinful souls are sent to atone and be succ'd dry of anima by vampire goths until they've repented enough to be sent somewhere else
>Superhell is the Maw where the unrepentable are supposed to go but because of Jailer shenanigans everyone is going there instead
So why the frick do you people say Superhell ????
Did your protestant brains get so fricked by Protestantism ?
hell is Revendreth where sinful souls are sent to atone and be succ'd dry of anima
No this is named purgatory, in like literally purgatory. This is how purgatory works basically the bad people get tortured in purgatory as long as their sins are and then get out to heaven while hell is forever.
So the Maw is literally HELL.
Revendreth is literally purgatory.
Is this what happens if you grow up protestant ?
cope and seethe
You quoted me. I said it was Purgatory.
>You quoted me. I said it was Purgatory.
Yea I'm only asking why the other guy calls it super hell.
By your logic, Bastion is heaven, so what are Ardenweald and Maldraxxus?
fricking moron atheist, any mention of anything to do with Christianity makes you sperg out like a fricking schizo
Ardenweald is heaven for furries and hippies
Maldraxxus is heaven for Fighters aka Valhalla (which also exists in WoW 1:1)
regular hell is Revendreth where sinful souls are sent to atone and be succ'd dry of anima by vampire goths until they've repented enough to be sent somewhere else
Superhell is the Maw where the unrepentable are supposed to go but because of Jailer shenanigans everyone is going there instead
Kel'Thuzad's story felt like it got cut down in SL. in 9.1 he is randomly in the Maw helping the J'lor. I think he was suppose to just be in Maldraxxus stirring up shit and probably killed off by Kael'Thas or Mograine.
He was, you needed to be in the not scourge covenant to do those quests though.
Why do you care anyway
The jailer wasn't the real bad guy too, he was trying to stop the real bad shit.
As other anons have indicated, trying to list every retcon is impossible because there are so many of them. Retcons are inevitable with such an old, huge property, but Blizzard just gives no fricks anymore. It's created a situation where any given piece of information about World of Warcraft exists in a quantum state of simultaneous canon and non-canon pending specific perception at any given time. As you might imagine, this makes it very difficult to give a frick about anything that happens in it.
>Retcons are inevitable with such an old, huge property,
40K semi manages to avoid this.
PS: However the fan base pretends retcons do not happen despite the necrons getting retconed.
Either way you notice in Warcraft literally everything is world ending, literally everything needs to be showing new never seen before aspects of the cosmology. In contrast 40K is basically the same shit
Orc/Necron/Nid go to planet you need to stop Orc/Necron/Nid.
There is really no big retcons they simply push a new army and this is all.
In contrast what the frick do you expect when every wow expansion is supposed to be new big bad who is behind it all and new cosmology shown ?
WTF did you expect ? That they all planed it out all these years ago ? AHAHAHAHAHAA
Wahram is also a much larger, intricate and original franchise, there are hundreds of warham books from dozens of authors. Warcraft is small in comparison.
Btw if you still have any doubts about writing skills of activisionblizzard devs, check overwatch lore 🙂
>overwatch
That is a trash game.
>check overwatch lore
I shiver to imagine.
>activisionblizzard
Sorry it is MICROSOFT NOW.
Welcome to capitalism !
>Sorry it is MICROSOFT NOW.
not yet actually
Funnily enough, N'Zoth also warns us for a greater evil, which turned out to be Zovaal. Then Zovaal warns us for an even greater evil.
who turns to be nzoths daddy. blizz asshats are just running out of ideas, or rather did years ago
J'lor is such a fricking goofy looking homie
FRICKEN LOL !
What wow needs is some real unapologetic badass villain which can win for at least one expansion unlike guldan
Jailer needed to kill Baine and Night Warrior Tyrande
Would have been based
Kj
>dies forever, soul destroyed
Nerz
>dies forever, retconned
Arthas
>dies forever, soul nagged out of existence
Sultanas
>gets made whole again, everyone she wronged shrugs and agrees she had a point
Hmmmmmmm
>Did anyone ? Post the video.
Single video? No. An insane amount of videos going into autistic detail the lore (and also all the retcons)? Yes.
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYcsI4px2GaIxUQ8io4kuZ2s
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYfJu8KqFv-MAj88mPue6ZH4
Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYeF53PWfZgFAKYtmRSjS5hH
Part 4
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYdrisuybIZzneHMAtGMRFuf
Part 5
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYedIihEev_JtfPUQMSgLA3d
Part 6
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYcpBtT5cQiJm_th-9ShYGc7
Part 7
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYeWpypi27ap8G8YwqEsFczL
Are you the red shirt sperg?
Why did the dragons trust thrall instead of rhonin in cataclysm?
Because Metzen
Easy
They needed somebody who could fill in as an "aspect of earth." Mages aren't connected to the earth in the same way Shamans are. Also, nobody really liked Ronin. He's easily the least popular Knaak character despite being the most prominent.
Rhonin wasn't as prominent as Krasus from what I remember.
Krasus is based af
>was a better mage than Kalecgos until Kalec became an aspect despite being red instead of Blue
I know he's just a knaak insert, but that day of the dragon adventure was pure kino.
Thrall had a good relationship with Alexstraza, but yeah it was always a bit stupid the dragons were not hostile to all the orcs.
..they have already retconned their own retcons multiple times you would need to makea couple hour video to go through it all
Are orcs still space aliens?
No anon, the Burning Legion and Draenei are space aliens
The orcs at least arrived on Azeroth via a magic portal instead of a sci-fi ship
Yes, a magic portal, from a different planet.. in space..
Orcs were never aliens. They were first described as "creatures from the underworld" or something to that effect.
Original Burning Legion was literally just hell. Standard demons like imps and succubi plus some OC that was still normal horns, hooves and wings
Now demons are just recruits to Sargeras' girlscout troop with spaceships and none of that makes sense
One of the writers must really love Spelljammer. Still, orcs were "corrupted" in lore before dreadlords were even introduced. I'm not sure which game introduced that, but it was still an RTS.
That would be a long list, there have been retcons throughout the whole game's history since the day it came out.
I don't give a shit, can someone tell me if Shadow Priests do good dps pve and pvp wise? Never played one before but big numbers are a MUST, that or i'll just go back to warlock.
Shadow priest is a bad choice because you only have one damage dealing spec and they're not worth bringing unless they're really good, or there is a raid mechanic where dispersion shines. Better to stick with warlock because most likely one of your specs is going to end up being great. No idea what the meta is right now for both pve and pvp but for the next expansion I'd have few characters ready to be leveled if you are half serious about doing end game stuff.
Thanks for the answer, i usually just main Warlock, wanted to come back and try something different but if its not doing big numbers it's not really worth it imho, also i don't want to get ignored in m+ and raids.
Last time I played shadow priest was back in the first season of BfA and it was pretty painful to find m+ groups when your class was so subpar. For mythic raiding you can definitely find a spot even if shadow priest isn't that great because a lot of guilds are in desperate need of active raiders. Only the really top guilds get to choose what kind of classes and specs they have in their raids, at least in the beginning of an expansion.
Don't listen to the other guy, he doesn't know what the current meta is. Shadow Priests are in extreme demand for raiding, they have excellent utility and single target DPS. On the M+ side of things they are great due to the addition of searing nightmare, but spamming it can be tedious. Some people still don't know SP's have great AOE now, so it can be hard to find M+ groups without a decent IO score, but I still managed to get KSM extremely quickly. Run your own keys.
Thnaks anon, then its on, i'll get to leveling and gearing that SP tomorrow.
Also, what's the current max iLvl?
The only class in the game right now that does big numbers that isnt warlock is fricking hunter, but if youre playing hunter than your bis is an irl chastity cage.
>list the timeline and what the lore was and how it was retconed ?
Fricking....no? homie that's like 10 years worth of garbage writing overwriting previous garbage writing. Just go read a fricking wiki.
>Just go read a fricking wiki.
The wiki pretends retcons are not real.
Why can't you just google it? The lore is like 30 years old or something. It would be easier to say that, like any long running series, the writers change frequently and as a consequence the lore changes. Initially the lore was written by white nerds, take a guess who writes the lore now and which domain of politics it serves. Here's a hint, there's a whole lot more homosexuals and strong women today in wow than there was in the entire history of the series up to this point. Also body type a and b.
>list the timeline
>playing WOW for the story
>I never played WoW
So why the frick do you care? Stupid frick.
>So why the frick do you care?
I'm interested I come across WoW lore or people complaining about WoW.
have a nice day.
Almost everything has been retconned or had complete asspull retroactive explanations. There is no possible short list. Ask about a specific character or event or something and people can probably tell you the 20 different times it's been changed or retconned.
They retcon absolutely everything, to this day they retcon events of previous patch in very next patch beccause writers are that bad. Hell, they even written rule book on how everything works only to immediately retcon it. Heres couple of most outrageous retcons:
>Blood Elves existing (they are just high elves) and being in the horde for no reason
>Night Elves going from xenophobic distrustful territorial closed in race which shoot first and asked second to purple hippie humans
>Every single thing about dragons
>Characters being dead and fel disintegrating souls. Kael sold out to super satan Kil'Jaden yet he is alive in afterlife? What?
>Characters have no motivation and no goals, they do what plot tells them to do and feel how plot asks them to feel
>tech making no sense (using swords where equivalents of gatlings exist)
>magic making no sense (teleportation is unrestricted and allows to kill any character blow up any place in an instant).
Its a horrid house of cards which immediately starts to fall apart as soon as you think about anything in it. Modern Star wars pretty much.
>fel disintegrating souls
Explain.
Elves
I never found a single piece of lore explaining why Kael'thas joined the Legion, considering they're the ones responsible for the fall of Quel'thalas in fricking first place.
He went mad and wanted energy for his people, when he was fricked sucking out mana from netherstorm he pledged to KJ.
Fel kills souls, you cannot have any sort of fantasy afterlife. If you killed by fel you are dead dead.
>Fel is fueled by drawing life from living beings and consuming their souls, utterly destroying them in the process.
from chronicles, and it was same statement long before them
>Fel kills souls, you cannot have any sort of fantasy afterlife. If you killed by fel you are dead dead.
>>Fel is fueled by drawing life from living beings and consuming their souls, utterly destroying them in the process.
>from chronicles, and it was same statement long before them
Post a video explaining the changes thez made to this.
There are no changes. Souls which are killed by fel just appear in sneedolands (afterlife) and there is no explanation. There is no retcon of this rule (fel killing souls) (as far as I am aware), it is just bypassed. Possibly writers dont even know that fel should kill souls.
like other anon already replied, High elves were dependent on magic, so when Arthas destroyed their source of magic they were desperate for anything to give them back their powers.
Think of it like oil in our world
NTA.
>Think of it like oil in our world
Like others have explained in other threads le magic being le addictive
Makes zero sense.
>Think of it like oil in our world
This means nothing if you disagree show the cars and planes they fueled with magic.
And how is this addictive to them ?
How does magic in Warcraft even work ?
Fricken mages can cast from the fricken air apparently !
This bullshit violates the lore super hard.
>How does magic in Warcraft even work ?
Deus ex machina of the worst kind which can do everything but at the same time cannot do anything it supposed to be able to do to let plot happen.
Again, any setting with unrestricted teleportation cannot work.
>Again, any setting with unrestricted teleportation cannot work.
While bad this is the least of WoWs problems.
1) Everyone can cast magic.
2) For magic to exist you need some BS place like the Sunwell or some shit
3) Only LOL NO ! Because this is never shown or used in game play LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
4) This is also magically addictive or some shit.
5) Only LOL NO ! Because this is never shown or used in game play LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
being dead and fel disintegrating souls. Kael sold out to super satan Kil'Jaden yet he is alive in afterlife? What?
Well kael'thas was never destroyed by fel magic. You kill him in magister's terrace after he betrays the blood elves. I suppose if you played a warlock when you kill him you might argue you soul sharded his ass.
He had a giant crystal jammed in his chest, maybe that was a bigass soul shard?
>He had a giant crystal jammed in his chest, maybe that was a bigass soul shard?
Well my point is that magister's terrace Kael never died from fel magic canonically and that was where he died. Kil'jaeden would have needed to be manifest in the world through the sunwell (which you prevent in the raid) to claim his soul. The crystal is not explained if it's fel or not but blood elves could consume fel energy for their own purposes, so i'm assuming fel battery.
He had crystal and was fully corrupted by fel. Even if your point in true by that time he would have been more of a demon than an elf and should have respawned like demons do.
>He had crystal and was fully corrupted by fel. Even if your point in true by that time he would have been more of a demon than an elf and should have respawned like demons do.
In game he comes up as humanoid and if he were a demon they' would've marked him as one so that doesn't hold water.
Demon hunter characters also marked humanoids
Same as playable undeads.
One mistake does not excuse the other.
Those are done for balance reasons, if they wanted kael to be a full demon they would have done it. He used arcane magic in the fight, if he'd been a demon he would've used fel. It wasn't a mistake.
So he is a humanoid for balance reasons because by that point he is clearly a demon and also accompanied by bunch of other demon casting elves.
>So he is a humanoid for balance reasons because by that point he is clearly a demon and also accompanied by bunch of other demon casting elves.
Player characters are balanced that way, not mobs. He's also does not look like a demon, he looks a lot more like a withered from legion. Emaciated and his last legs barely alive.
You are just trying to find increasingly shakier excuses for a clear-cut plothole while in lore it is clearly shown that dranei which used fel turned into eredar which are demons and obey demon runes. When in starting area as demon hunter you are explained that you can ressurect because you are a demon and demons cannot be killed. Compared to demon hunters fel elves are far more corrupted in their unrestrictive usage of fel energy. They are no different from eredar which are treated like demons.
>You are just trying to find increasingly shakier excuses for a clear-cut plothole while in lore it is clearly shown that dranei which used fel turned into eredar which are demons and obey demon runes. When in starting area as demon hunter you are explained that you can ressurect because you are a demon and demons cannot be killed. Compared to demon hunters fel elves are far more corrupted in their unrestrictive usage of fel energy. They are no different from eredar which are treated like demons.
No it's clear by this point that you are a moron who does not want to see. Enjoy the myopia.
You are gasping at straws to conjure some moronic explanation for a case obvious to everyone. Enjoy wow writing making no sense I guess.
Blood Elves were in WC3 and if you read the actual fricking quests/dialogue from NPC's in Quel'Thalas and Netherstorm, it explains what's going on with KT.
Normies got filtered hard by TBC and expected cinematic cutscene to tell them what was happening, fricking morons.
Nope, it doesnt. If you make an explanation for a scenario which is impossible (noble elves joining stinky horde) it doesnt make it a good scenario, it makes it a bad scenario with a shitty explanation. There is absolutely zero reason for blood elves to be in the horde or be called blood elves.
Im not a fan of Belves being in the horde but it's explained in Quel'Thalas's quest chain pretty damn well, with the Forsaken helping them in the Ghostlands and Sylvanas vouching for them.
Again, poor explanation doesnt make moronic scenario less moronic. Look at the star wars.
>Normies got filtered hard by TBC and expected cinematic cutscene to tell them what was happening, fricking morons.
>HOW DARE YOU EXPECT FOR US TO MAKE CINEMATIC OR CUT SCENES ! HERE HAVE A TEXTBOX DUMP IN THE QUEST ABOUT NEEDING TO COLLECT 12 PIES !
Retcons *CAN* be a good thing.
See this.
The only reason I know about this character because I play hearthstone.
So I'm interested what these characters even are. They are some WoW vampire yes ?
They are "vampires" that eat sins and run Purgatory.
>that eat sins and run Purgatory.
Sounds gay.
They do have cum chalices, yes.
anima is cum and they are the primary experts at extracting it
>amongst enemies
The frick, does that mean randomly spread between all enemies, 5 damage to all enemies or what?
LOL that English.
Hmm not sure best way is to take the card and make a deck and play it.
Wiki says
>Sire Denathrius' Battlecry deals its damage to each of its targets in one instance instead of randomly split damage.[1]
So basically it is something like -5 to all enemies.
Best way to learn it is by playing the card, it takes a 2k post to explain to you how the frickn magnetic mechanic works !
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Magnetic
I'm only 90% sure how Infuse works
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Infuse
Never played it.
denathrius is a shit character and the only reason you like him is because you're an unironic homosexual
Nah Sire is awesome, if they rewrote shadowlands to just being a dimension like the emerald dream sort of and not the after life while cutting j'lor out, it would fix most of the issues.
no he's dogshit, everything else you wrote is correct though. Shadowlands shoud've been the purgatory and not the afterlife
In 2015 Chronicles was advertised as being the definitive lore and worldbuilding foundation of the warcraft setting. It was supposed to serve as the last round of retcons to all pre-legion lore. Almost the entirety of the first volume has been retconned as of shadowlands
>It was supposed to serve as the last round of retcons to all pre-legion lore. Almost the entirety of the first volume has been retconned as of shadowlands
LOL sounds hilarious now tell me what they changed.
Chronicle is no longer a "lore-book." Blizzard instead now describes it as a history of the universe as written by the Titans. Since the Titans are no longer infallible gods and can now be wrong about anything and everything, anything in Chronicle can be non-canon at any point in time.
In Chronicle they wrote that the Titans (godlike beings that brought order to Azeroth and created a bunch of races and places) are fricking dead because the mad titan Sargeras killed then all. 3 patches laters, and they changed so that their souls were actually alive and hiding somewhere, and Sargeras found them except for one that was conveniently nearby, and was torturing them. We free them and they are inexplicably alive again, and they do a ritual to jail the mad titan and end the Burning Legion for good.
FRICKEN LOL what a shit show !
More please.
Not related to Chronicle, but also a Legion thing. There's the time dilation bullshit and the prime Naaru explains it like "the universe is a vortex, the middle spins faster than the borders" and this means that thousands of years go by in the legion homeworld during a single year in Azeroth, and this is why their army is always replenished, their generals ressurected and their new plan is flawlessly executed every few expansions.
>Naaru
WTF is a naru ?
Holy windchimes that are aligned with the Light
Also my favorite, how Warlords of Draenor was an expansion related to the Caverns of Time and the bronze dragonflight. It was cool at first, going back in time before the Orc homeworld became a shithole. But them they decided to have the past horde invade present Azeroth through the Dark Portal for some reason, because it looked cool or something. Them it became a shitshow, it's actually a parallel universe or something, that coexists with present day Draenor/Outland and most of the bronze dragonflight content got scrapped.
And then the burning legion invades alternate universe Draenor in the last patch, and they explain it like "these are present day demons, the burning legion transcends all timelines at all times". And then alternate universe Gul'dan becomes a main villain in the Legion expansion while our own Guldan stays dead in a corner of the Tomb the entire expansion. That was the time wow lore jumped the shark for me.
>the burning legion transcends all timelines at all times
this
this right here
is the absolute apex of nonsense
never forget that Blizzard demolished their own lore purely to try to get people to care about killing alternate-universe Archimonde
I was hoping the next expansion would just be us coming back to azeroth to find the time travel shit was permanent and we were stuck in WC1 time.
>dragonflight
I cringe every time this word is used.
>dragonflight
Why not a dragon walk ?
>dragonflight
moronic name for what essentially is a clan or a brood.
More than retconns, WoW suffers from shitty writing and Sylvannas fanboyism. It's almost as bad as Starcraft 2.
This one always bothered me
How so? Maiev could very well have been there prior to the sundering night elves are old as frick
Well this is Suramar as of Legion.
Looks pretty not-waterlogged to me
oh sorry I don't consider anything after WotLK canon and he did post a warcraft 3 screenshot
Not him but I think its more the fact how Suramar ended up in Legion. With a still living civilization and all that. Along with blood elf story 2.0
I think the plot of legion involved that area being raised from the sea floor (by guldan presumably). The real frickup is the night elves from suramar turned into naga, not “nightborne/withered” night elves
I mean Guldan already raised up the Tomb of Sargeras in the second war. The Guldan from WoD timeline just went there to summon demons and start the third? Legion invasion
No, the Nelves from Zin Azshari became the Naga.
Suramar was the base of operations for the Nelf resistance
Hm, could’ve sworn they arose from both places. I will double check when replaying wc3 this october
They explained it was hidden under magic barrier up until the expansion so it was isolated from all that shit. Still a retcon of course, but they didn't just plonk the city back down and shrug
No, i think Azshara was suppose to rise Thal'Dranath from the sea or some shit, which was basically an underwater Suramar but it got cut and replaced with Argus.
I hope you are seeing that from Fitgirl's recent torrent, and you didn't pay 60$ for a piece of bloatware
youtube
Who created Frostmourne again?
Definitely-Not-Odin.
the even firster ones
the 1stiersterth of firsteth
The Janny
Someone needs a visit from Associate Professor Whom.
Only warcraft 3 and vanilla are of interest lore-wise. Tbc had a lot of great world building but nothing after that expansion matters
ner'zhul is the nexus of retcons
pretty much 70% of the retcons made by the writers is to diminish him
>can't think of a single time ner'zhul was called out by name in wrath, his expansion
>can only think of one time he was referenced, in an alliance only quest
That's because according to the book Arthas kills Ner'Zhul in his head when he sleeps.
WotLK was when the lore decisions started getting really questionable, between this and THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LICH KING
>WotLK was when the lore decisions started getting really questionable
Literally all of TBC was a mess lmao
But yes, there must always be a lich king was really fricking bad too
>
That's because according to the book Arthas kills Ner'Zhul in his head when he sleeps.
>WotLK was when the lore decisions started getting really questionable,
It started with Vanilla, but the real bad one was TBC with making Illidan and Kael into villains
It started in WC3, but nobody ever says that because they don't care about (or even played) WC2. WC3 was such a massive upheaval, expansion and retcon of the world of WC2 that it might as well have been a new IP.
>WC2. WC3 was such a massive upheaval, expansion and retcon of the world of WC2 that it might as well have been a new IP.
Red pill me !
t. kid who only played WC3
It didn’t have any elves for starters
>THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LICH KING
Holy shit I forgot about that one lmao
>that book is bullshit
I agree.
>even if ner'zhul was killed by arthas dreaming of it, then it doesn't make him not worth mentioning. In wrath they just went with lich king = arthas and ignored everything that came before.
I remember there being a piece of dialog where LK says "I was a shaman once", but that's about it. They did him dirty.
Yeah, that was the one reference in the alliance quest I mentioned, it's the only time I recall it ever being acknowledged the lich king is anything more than arthas in a hat.
Frick I hated that shit. The whole "Now we are one" was far cooler. It was also confusing how in some Woltk quests that seemed to be the case.
Frick I hate Golden
even vanilla naxx we had merged lich king speaking with kel'thuzad
>Arthas kills Ner'Zhul in his head when he sleeps.
1, that book is bullshit
2, even if ner'zhul was killed by arthas dreaming of it, then it doesn't make him not worth mentioning. In wrath they just went with lich king = arthas and ignored everything that came before.
They went back on that in Chronicle. Arthas took primary control, but Ner'zhul was still there in the background.
Ne'rzhul being a major part of the Lich King's consciousness was always a headcanon
nope
It seemed like they were going somewhere with it at first. In Legion, when a DK character returns to get Frostmourne shards for their artifact, you fight a ghost Nerzhul torturing Arthas and he says "you ruined everything!"
>Now we are one! By which I mean I, arthas am now one and am going to kill the other soul in this hat in a dream because if you die in a dream you die in real life
Best line from WC3
Nah by Wrath they 100% retconned it to be Arthas only. "now we are one" and you can hear both voices in Naxx 40.
I don't mind the book saying arthas eventually killed ner'zhul in some head battle, feels like something he would do.
>Ne'rzhul being a major part of the Lich King's
Literally to this day after playing WC3 I still hear it in my head
>FOR Ne'rzhul
agree, one of the most unfairly maligned and marginalized characters
So what are the positive ramifications of Shadowlands lore?
AHAHAHAHHA
Sylvanas getting railed by Anduin in porn
It was cool learning the method by which the Wildgods revive
Denathrius is a decent villain
uhh
>positive
THE WORLD NOW KNOWS WHAT THE AFTER LIFE IS LIKE, HAS GONE THERE AND THERE IS ZERO CHANGES TO PEOPLES BELIEFS OR ACTIONS IN THE WORLD
Yeah but what about the afterafterlife?
Kneel
The only good thing about Shadowlands was the low effort cutscene he got. Probably the only character who stayed true to himself.
but isnt he way to manly for nowdays blizzard?
That's why he's dead
they brought him back for nostalgiabait then did literally nothing with him and then killed him again
They cut him and used Kael'Thas instead, one single dev brought Garrosh back for a cutscene.
They also baited Zul'jin as a character in Revendreth
I must have missed that? but yeah SL had a lot of cuts.
Bwonsamdi says he has only ever failed a single troll soul and we see both this in the revendreth trailer as well as a ghost using Zul'jin's WoW model in Revendreth
I think Zul'jins sinstone was somewhere. Most dead characters had Easter eggs like that
But also trolls confirmed purest race?
>revendreth
>when the troll afterlife is a separate thing that gets repeatedly teased then never shown (frick you that one room dungeon doesn't count)
Just watched his 3rd? death cutscene. Unironically based, he'd rather cease to exist than ever apologize for anything he did. As a bonus he escapes the modern WoW writers while pretty much being right the entire time.
>escapes the modern WoW writers
Nothing a new retcon or the introduction of the afterlife-afterlife can not fix !
Seriously dude I think Star Trek and 40K proved the only way to perma kill a character is for the IRL courts telling you you do not own that character.
See the 5 chaos god in 40K.
In Star trek the Terran Empire and the Borg have proven that as long as the corporation has the IP they will bring you back for views.
I mean literally nothing can remove the Borg or the Terran Empire. They got literally killed 100% with no survivors, they got removed from timelines. Purged from existence using space magic ... yet they keep on coming back ! Every time !
There are so many retcons that a full list literally can't be written. Even retcons are being retconned again and again down the line.
It is impossible to follow the Warcraft story in a simple, logical order unless you played through all games and expansion packs in release order when they were available in their proper state
I say this as someone who maintained wowpedia
99% of the times what wow tries to do is expanding upon established lore by adding something to the foundation, for example they successfully painted Light as a morally ambiguous force and not divine rays on infinite wisdom and good by slowly but surely threading it expansion after expansion
but sometimes they try this retroactive thing a little bit too hard and that leaves a sour taste in people's mouth, and they did that a lot recently with the last one being dreadlords as agents of vampires. didnt work, was not needed, reinforced the correct notion of writers being hacks and drove veteran fans away
>Horde: "Hurf durfefw I'm a fricking moron'
>Alliance: "Stop being moronic"
>Horde:"sorry"
every fricking time
This was the timeline even before shadowlands. Shadowlands retconned some good WC3 and WotLK stuff into utter danuser shit.
The Mag'har Monk is better, and more recent.
Didn't know that, that's way better
Hey guys, remember me?
..the only good thing from those comics was Valeera for Coom nothing else
>the orc draenai human mutt
yikes
Finally a character americans can self insert as
oh FRICK No!!! it was so bad it got wiped and buried even by blizz itself
Whatever happened to that thing about how it apparently turned out that the dreadlords and the lich king were serving the same master even though a big part of WC3 revolved around their conflict?
They were merely pretending to be at odds with each other to further deceive onlookers
god I forgot about this, everything about Shadowlands is like one big perpetual train wreck
go back to r*ddit, then have a nice day
Look at what they did to the Worgen
I have a friend who plays wow in 2022 and I know they could literally do anything and he would buy it day one. I think he’s a broken soul, really. As are most people who didn’t take one look at Cata and fricking bail out.
I got into warcraft because of hearthstone and in HS they are able to be much more loose with retcons and alternate scenarios. Stuff like the major heroes becoming death knights, Gadgetzan being a huge metropolis with gangs is really cool.
Dragonflight is the first expansion where hearthstone characters are being introduced in a big way, especially with the league of explorers. The villain rafaam contributed to resurrecting galakrond in hearthstone and his model was leaked, i hope he plays some role in the story
Explorer's League has existed forever. Hearthstone just added the nelf, the Murlock, and the wienery(secret dragon), but these guys have cameo'd in WoW before already as well. In Legion to be exact.
Same. Hearthstone has no canon whatsoever and makes everything for fun.
It is cool this way.
LOOK IT IS Mecha C'Thun !
ha that's neat
Never played HS but id love a Wow 2 just to get its version of Gadgetzan in.
Can you still experience the original Death Knight starter zone in retail?
Here's a retcon that annoyed me
>WC3, Mannaroth is protected by fel energies, completely immune to injury. This is why it had to be Grom that frees the orcs from his influence because he's chaos damage'd up and can bypass these protections (RIP cenarius)
>WoD rolls around, lol just hit him with an axe once and he explodes
This. As much as the cinematic is cool thematically, it really shits on the thing it's supposed to be paying homage to. Groms death is an emotional pay off for the character because he's making a sacrifice.
Even if they'd added half a second of showing Garrosh dunking gorehoel in the blood of Mannaroth before throwing it to Grom it would be something. Pretty sure it doesn't work that way but it would have showed they remembered.
>Here's a retcon that annoyed me
>>WC3, Mannaroth is protected by fel energies, completely immune to injury. This is why it had to be Grom that frees the orcs from his influence because he's chaos damage'd up and can bypass these protections (RIP cenarius)
>>WoD rolls around, lol just hit him with an axe once and he explodes
Probably can't consider that one a retcon, he does get hit by the iron sphere and explosion right before that. Can argue he had no way to stop it after tanking the first hit.
fel energies are chaos energies. Grom didn't kill Manneroth cuz of his gameplay damage type. He just got a lucky hit on him. Manneroth blocked Thralls storm hammer with his wing.
>fel energies are chaos energies. Grom didn't kill Manneroth cuz of his gameplay damage type. He just got a lucky hit on him. Manneroth blocked Thralls storm hammer with his wing.
Well that's part of my point here, it's not a retcon. Big hit/explosion, weak for a moment caught by surprise. These are mostly nitpicks. Draenei and the broken are a retcon and a huge one that metzen apologized for. Draenor being shaped by a titan full retcon for instance. There are actual egregious retcons compared to the nitpicks.
Yeah, but Draenei women make me coom so idgaf if the old Draenei history from the Warcraft 2 manual got changed. And Draenor had no long term ancient backstory so a single titan showing up and helping out a bit isn't really a big deal imo. It wasn't fully formed by the pantheon like Azeroth was.
I don't think it's a thing that needs recharging, it's just immunity.
From was able to kill mannoroth originally only because he was infused with mannoroths own energy. He's basically killing him with his own weapon. He wields the power of the gods but finally makes a moral decision and gives it up to free himself and his people. The whole of Warcraft 3 is very Nietzschean.
>From was able to kill mannoroth originally only because he was infused with mannoroths own energy. He's basically killing him with his own weapon. He wields the power of the gods but finally makes a moral decision and gives it up to free himself and his people. The whole of Warcraft 3 is very Nietzschean.
True but that may have been a more powerful mannoroth at the time. Another thought is that he'd just bloodlet himself for the WoD cinematic. Possibly weakening him. Lots of ways for it work. Unless he just carries around buckets of his own blood, which for a demon cool I guess.
Speaking of wow Retcons did they ever address if Sylvanas was or wasn't immune to old god corruption? I remember there was some lore book that talked about Death attribute being completely incompatible with Void or something like that, and i thought it was a cool idea. Of course that same book talked about how Light and Death don't get along, and yet now we have a lightforged forsaken in the game somehow.
Undead being immune to void corruption is an old RPG thing from way back. No idea if its still canon or not.
As for the LF undead. She's able to exist because she was reanimated with the light instead of death magic. Death entities are still burned by the Light pretty universally. There's even a section of one of the Shadowland zones where the vampire people(who aren't undead, btw.) get burned by the light just because they're made of death energy.
Does that mean the angel smurfs would also be burned by the light?
Yep. There's a reason why they were careful to make the Kyrian's stuff all white colored energy rather than the gold that actual light energy is.
Everything in the Shadowlands runs off of Death Energy so would be burned by the light.
Damn, that would have been actually interesting to explore instead of what we got.
The pre BFA windrunner comic had the Void literally screaming about Sylvanas to Alleria
Seems like the Void still firmly hates Undead
>She's able to exist because she was reanimated with the light instead of death magic
wouldn't that just, you know resurrect her? instead of turning her into a (not so) rotten corpse? Like doesn't every priest and paladin raise dead all the time with the light without making them undead? even assuming that's an extremely time limited ability that wouldn't work on someone who's been dead more than a few minutes, what happened to her with the light would just be a much stronger version of that spell right?
In actual canon, resurrection magic(that the players use and is commonly known among spellcasters) is more like a magical resuscitation that only works if the corpse is still fairly fresh.
Calia was dead for hours and was raised by a Naaru. It was necromancy, only it used light energy as a base instead of death energy.
To follow up. True, resurrection on people that have been dead for more than a few minutes is incredibly rare, even in lore. Illidan managed to come back cuz his soul is a demon and Maiev froze his body like a psycho ex-girlfriend.
Most of the time when characters come back they either "weren't really dead" or are some form of undead like Netharian.
>It was necromancy, only it used light energy as a base instead of death energy.
yeah that... that's moronic. You can't or (shouldn't) just be able to completely substitute one aspect of magic for another and get the same result, especially not the OPPOSITE FRICKING TYPE OF MAGIC.
If you tried to cure someone's wounds with fire magic, you'd just burn them. If you tried to start a fire with water magic it just wouldn't work. Sure there are some schools that can achieve the same result with different methods (say like air magic being able to levitate with wind, while lightning magic could do it with magnetism), but necromancy with light magic is as fricked up as healing someone with death magic.
The WoW story used to run on 1990s/early 2000s comic book logic, nowadays it runs off the woke 2016 on comic book logic.
>nowadays it runs off the woke 2016 on comic book logic.
Give examples.
tyrande tried to kill sylvanas by choking her
she tried to choke an undead
... an undead whose true form was always publicly known to be a banshee (ghost). Good lord Tyrande is moronic. She must be hot as frick for all the trouble she causes and gets away with, because she sure as shit isn't intelligent enough to have anything to say.
It's weird. She's kind of alive-ish.
We see her eat once and she doesn't stink apparently, she smells like "dying roses" according to one of the books.
Obviously that just means that we're going to see her lightforged babies when Anduin marries her
The pre-wrath story explaining what the sunreavers are has a scene where she's talking to lorethemar and he gets grossed out by her skin splitting when she tries to smile, she's not immune to rotting.
>and he gets grossed out by her skin splitting when she tries to smile, she's not immune to rotting.
Post video.
There's been healing with chaos magic in the form of the Lock cookies since vanilla. And death magic is ostensibly the basis of all the covenant abilities. And since every healing spec got one of those. Bam, healing magic.
There's even a moment in one of the war of the ancient novels where Krasus reanimates a corpse with life magic.
You can whine about nu-lore all day long, but the fact is, is that every major category of magic have had a large amount of functional overlap forever.
Light forging a corpse to make an undead light golem doesn't really seem far-fetched to me.
Undead light golem is far fetched from the very start. If you want to make an undead with light it should be something like an angel or one of those valkyries Sylvanas is always munching on for HP.
What's the point in having different aspects of magic if it's all just bioshock 3 endings where they're all the same aside from whichever color you glow while casting?
>What's the point in having different aspects of magic
Cuz those aspects of magic all run a different aspect of the universe and all hate each other. That's why.
And WoW angels showed up in the newest expansion. They run on death magic.
>They run on death magic.
which doesn't mean anything apparently, since the next writer could decide to make a Light magic one and apparently nobody would find that change odd in the slightest.
>bioshock 3 endings where they're all the same aside from whichever color you glow while casting?
Based bioshock 3 hater. Frick that shit !
Elements aren't types of magic in WoW
In WoW its Arcane/Law, Light, Void, Death, Life, Fel/Chaos
Most elemental casting falls under Arcane
Moreover there's already precedent for other magic resurrections with Fel doing Kael Thas and obviously many light based resurrections
>Moreover there's already precedent for other magic resurrections with Fel doing Kael Thas and obviously many light based resurrections
but no precedent for making Forsaken specifically. Resurrection and Reanimation aren't the same thing.
She's not forsaken no matter how much she wants to larp as one
I'm willing to give her a pass as long as she isn't the faction leader. Those breasts warrant a bit of leniency.
t. Forsaken main
yeah, what could go wrong putting ANOTHER Menethil in charge? it's not like everything bad that happened hasn't been their fault or anything.
Arthas did nothing wrong. Frick the forsaken. I would rather play as the scourge.
Arthas can't have done nothing wrong. He bothered to leave Muradin a corpse on the ground, but went out of his way to turn Sylvanas into what she is today.
Arthas was two different people at those times.
so? either not making Muradin an undead slave was a mistake (it was) or making Sylvanas one was a mistake (it probably was too). It doesn't matter if he "was a different person then" that's just a phrase that means "I made a mistake in the past that i wouldn't have made today".
He wasn't even capable of creating undead slaves at the time of Muradin's "death". He had just taken frostmourne like 10 seconds prior. Turning Sylvannis isn't wrong within the context of WC3 and it probably isn't wrong in the context of WoW because he was just a jailer puppet.
He could've at least had the decency to finish muradin off so he could come back for him later. He had quite a while in northrend before WotLK officially started and he really could've used a cool dude like Muradin in his undead army.
orcs arent people
I wish death knights had remained a hero class and you play them only with the scourge for the entire expansion until the lich king was killed. Would have been fun if your only quests were to frick with alliance and horde players
>as long as she isn't the faction leader
Learn to read gaylord. I just want her to stay around cuz she's decent eye candy.
Her model is absolutely atrocious you stupid coomer
Lol, can't hear you over the sound of my hand pumping my dick. Go be a gay somewhere else.
I'd give her a shot at faction leader if she got assassinated once a week and the light was just on constant rez duty.
Deep Lore:
>Light and death are basically the same thing
*Sips*
>Like doesn't every priest and paladin raise dead all the time
There is no firm answer to how often this actually happens for non gameplay reasons or any additional restrictions
Quest text mentions it a few times and it comes off like i described
Happens right after somebody is killed and the two times off the top of my head where it is mentioned are Scarlet characters that are surrounded by priests who could quickly rez them.
The blood elf paladin class quests had you raise your buddy as part of the trial to become a paladin back in BC when they were still blood knights robbing a kidnapped naaru of its essence for power.
There's a questline in Storm Peaks (wrath) where undead are mining void corrupted ore (Saronite) to make Icecrown structures. They are fine while your expedition goes insane.
>Sylvanas
Why is everyone sucking her dick ?
What is so special about her ?
Other then being coom bait.
She has magically induced PTSD and is a woman in power. A Californian writer pumps himself to that kind of shit
She has huge blue mil...
>Other then being coom bait.
...kers. oh, never mind then.
Jokes aside i liked the idea of Sylvanas actually becoming a good warchief that a lot of people hoped would happen over the course of BfA. there was a lot of plot points that could've gone in a cool direction, of course Blizzard always takes the least interesting route with any potential plotlines, so just like Garrosh they threw away any potential she had to being an interesting character shortly after i felt like she had the potential.
>Illidan not being dead
>Illidan not being dead again
They said almost twenty years ago that they wanted to show that Illidan was still alive at the end of Warcraft 3 but couldn't make it work without it looking silly. IIRC, the idea was to have him looking up and watching Arthas putting on the helm.
Yeah, but those are mindless undead that are already under the Lich King's control. Does that hold true for sentient undead?
During the quest they make the point that the undead are completely immune to old god corruption, and that they might not be working together. I don't remember anything more specific being said in later expansions, aside from undead shadow priests being a thing. Sylvanas have always been by herself, like a strong wxmen, no old god shit implied ever.
I find it hilarious that in universe that has like half of all big characters being corrupted or going insane, Illidan meddles with magic and demons, eats demonic artifacts, turns into a fricking demon and still retains his old self through the sheer power of fedora-tipping autism.
>fedora-tipping autism.
What ?
>turns into a fricking demon
If Warcraft was real .... would not everyone want to turn into a demon ?
What are the downsides ?
Be super powerful, live forever ...
Where do I sign up ?
>What are the downsides ?
literally enslaved to Sargeras and whatever dumbshit warlock wants to control you
just learn metamorphosis instead
all the upsides to being a humanoid and a demon with only a few of the downsides
Also if you don't immediately prove yourself useful you just become soul fuel. There's no felblood elves after they failed at the sunwell, and that dreadlord in the nightwell talks about how the incompetent nightborn allies will be disposed of after they're done.
>Sargeras
Is he not dead ?
>and whatever dumbshit warlock
This is not how that works.
don't forget
>illidan not being crazy
>he's the chosen one actually
Does it matter? The brand doesn't really carry weight anymore. There are more interesting things out there.
>Does it matter?
I'm interested.
And from what I understand it is practically impossible to learn this now.
Also I hate MMORPGs !
>why did xy happen?
>corruption
Reminder these people get a paycheck.
>Reminder these people get a paycheck.
I mean the same people who wrote the dogshit rest of the story also wrote garrosh in mists. I enjoyed garrosh's story even up to the shadowlands ending. Flips everyone off, kills his torturer and checks out of WoW forever. Chad.
This.
The retcon is that Arthas is about the descent into a villain instead of a tragic hero whose soul was imprisoned
What was a reason for Scorge (made and controlled by Jailor) and legion (made and controlled by Jailor) to fight with a goal to destroy the world Jailor needed for his plan?
Danuser was just thinking how cool it would be to make an epic Thanos rip off cause Marvel is so cool, the details of how it makes sense are for chuds
Have they ever explained Sapphiron, a blue dragon, having a name of black flight?
cultural exchange and big black dragonwiener
The naming conventions for dragons werent made back then. The names were just cool sounding words like Searinox
Blue dragon name... blue...Saphire...Sapphiron.
That's your explanation. That's what they were thinking at the time.
If you never played wow back in the day, youll never have that amazing experience. Classic and all the homosexuals playing it now push for meta and speed runs. Fun doesn't exist, its just a shitty grind, times 6 million.
>Fun doesn't exist, its just a shitty grind
Maybe classic should be less of a shitty grind game?
>If you never played wow back in the day, youll never have that amazing experience.
I realized this. Care to give me how it was ?
It was a chat room full of normies and everyone was super nice to eachother to the point where they couldnt call out major morons for being moronic to clear braindead content and instead brainedad morons (which usually happened to be more socially skilled) forced their rules upon non-fully moronic people such as you cannot use life tap as a warlock to not waste healers mana etc. Contrary to perception, everyone run super meta comps, they were just bad and unadaptive to changes to go as far as people go nowadays since everyone mostly played only one character.
I dont miss that, but I miss almost complete absence of rmt, splits, all other moron normie hassle and in general everyone being so bad that I could own them with closed eyes.
So the WC3 Classes that weren't in Hots
>Shadow Hunter
Vol'jin or Rokhan
>Pit Lord
Mannoroth
>Goblin Alchemist
Marin Noggenfogger
>Eredar Warlock
Kil'jaeden or Archimonde
>Elder Sage
Akama
>Naga Sea Witch
Vashj or Azshara
Is that reforged akama?
He looks great
for the most part reforged looked great, they just did literally nothing else and in fact removed most features
reforged has god tier models, the lighting in the WC3 engine ruins it.
They should have used the SC2 engine but were deadset on having BC with WC3 custom maps and games, which they ended up breaking support for most and removing custom campaigns anyway. absolute joke of a project.
If HOTS was more popular i think most of that would have been added, not having Baal from Diablo sucked as well, it's pretty obvious what his ultimate would have been.
Why wasn't he in Shadowlands?
died to fel magic (varimathras) so his soul was obliterated
He never died.
based
>ttps://youtu.be/ilHROkpf5PY
Are there any channels who basically do WoW storrymode ? Like cut out most fighting and show the story like it is presented in WoW ?
I’ve seen the guy who made this in sc2 customs before
He is fighting chaos in 40k
KINO
>It is forbidden for one us to kill
Holy frick I forgot this was ever a thing.
So moronic
>I'm a le evil demon
>Nooooooo I can not kill other demons ! It is FOrBiDdEn !
Who wrote this crap ?
Blizzard writing was always shit. WC3 regardless how I like it is literally only an atmospheric ride of nonsense
1) Look le evil Orc
2) Oh no le Evil Orcs
3) A plague ?
4) A cult ?!
5) It is the undead !
6) Now you play as the undead
7) The Lich king
8) Jokes on you the demons (burning legion) was behind the undead all this time !
9) Look it is a big magical tree !
It was literally a parade of other bad people behind the other bad people and a lots of fights
10) Oh look it is the Naga
WC 3 displayed the same nonsense writing of Blizzard in a miniature scale.
And being a self contained game it is not that outrageous since it is 1 story. And maybe the
>Aha jokes on you it is us who are really behind it all
Type of storytelling did not get old
>Aha jokes on you it is us who are really behind it all
If this is stretched to a story that unfolds over years and every new expansion does it ... it gets sick really fast.
Wc3 is about bad guys outplaying other bad guys (scourge vs legion). You read the manual you already know that Ner'zhul is the b***h of the Legion.
Bad parts of wc3 story are :
-Tyrande, Illidan, Malfurion
-Sylvanas campaign
-Orcs being the dindu the entire game and Humans are le racist
It was kinda ok since it was only transformation from
orc>human>undead>legion(also behind orc) so it was reasonable
But wow went full on moron
>But wow went full on moron
Agree.
Or is this what happens if this type of story writing is used in a story spanning years ?
This is just what happens when a story keeps going
You can find it in any TV series that kept running past its peak
Nah, shit just needs to happen to break repetition and stillness of everything. Like fall of Cadia in warham.
But wow is so shit and uninspired it just repeats same shit over and over and over again.
Everything that happened was to stop what is to come...
Jailor is talking about the servers shutting down due to lack of players
he had to play the villain to give us something to do. The end of Legion pretty much wrapped up the greater WoW story, so to save the universe from heat death he had to create new content for us to fight through.
if you lost to the jailer he would've created warcraft age of sigmar edition
That would have been awful.
A bunch of world/reality altering events occur within a few short years despite the world being extremely ancient. All of the lore from the rts games are pretty much unimportant foot notes by this point. A wave of homosexuality has taken Azeroth as of late despite being a world that still kills those of opposite factions on sight. Also the planet is alive, like literally alive and space spooks wanna rape it.
>Someone will stop you, Denathrius... Even if I-ACK
This is an obvious one.
It openly retcons the dialogue in Halls of Reflection.
>Implying anyone at nu-blizzard played halls of reflection or even ICC
I mean Uther's soul is in eastern plaguelands. They retconned it by explaining Frostmourne splits your soul, probably because one dev who actually played WoW pointed it out.
They put Uther's soul back together in poorly explained dialogue.
>that pic
Holy shit it hurts to watch.
His soul is also in ICC and at least two other places.
So what happened to Sylvanas? Why did she do what she did?
Because she didn't like the shadowlands and Jailer said he could make it better
addicted to big jailor wiener and wanted to impress him
halfway through realizes that the JAILOR who lives in the MAW in the SANCTUM OF DOMINATION who'se signature abilities all include chains and who constantly talks about dominating and enslaving everyone doesn't in fact want to set the world free or whatever.
God.
I can't believe i'm saying this after Legacy of the Void but please somebody bring back metzen
She just did, chud. She doesnt need to explain. Incel. Stop harrasing women.
Nothing, she patrols the Maw now.
Sometime, either when Arthas raised her or when she killed herself and was revived after ICC she went to the Maw and realized no fricking way am I going there.
Since then, she has been in Magically induced Jailer PTSD mode and bargained with him (using Helya as a cutout) for a better chance at the afterlife.
She was being conned so that she could help bolster his military might so that when he inevitably had to fight the Maldraxxi he could overpower them.
That's why she instigated the war in BFA, since Legion everyone who has died has gone to the Maw, so she created a conflict where as many souls as possible would be sent there.
And that Magically induced PTSD has essentially made her feel the pain and rage of death toward literally everyone she has met since either of her previous deaths.
So when we fixed her soul she feels an intense responsibility for the actions of deranged PTSD Sylvanas. Not unreasonably.
But she's still going to marry Anduin and make Greymane seethe.
All I want is for wolfdaddy to finally have his revenge, he's the only remotely decent faction leader of either side left. Stormheim wasn't enough
There's a neat fabfiction where Anduin becomes a giga chad who collects all the notable warcraft women for his harem. Sylvanas is going to be the last one
Nobody in WoW can be considered a gigachad when they're all subservient to the women of WoW who now run this shit. Except Garrosh, but he chose to yeet himself out of existence because he could easily see the writing on the wall.
well it is a fanfiction after all.
Greymane best surrogate dad, Saurfang close second
dat azz
shut up it was part of the story 🙁
she not-served so hard, she was part of several universe scale masterplans and did exactly as told. plus against her ~~*true*~~ will of course
Goodbye Malfurion. You turned out to be a total cuck in everything but the 8.1 trailer.
Malfurion staying to slay some dragon pussy. Just like he did during Vanilla.
Seriously though what the frick?
They're not good enough writers.
They're writing a light villain expansion and don't want a chad like Malfurion to beat up Turalyon like Illidan did.
So says the shadow of Xavius!
It's kind of sad that even after all this time, in 2022, there are still people on here, on Ganker of all places, who still, deep-down, care somewhat about WoW and yet Blizzard is just relentlessly and unceasingly shitting on the IP to this day.
What was the point of the Microsoft acquisition? Watch a bunch of buffoons tank a once valuable IP into the ground? I know the merger isn't complete until 2023, but holy shit, they better do something next year.
What are you expecting Microsoft to do? Enforce new lore that says gays and Black folk are burned on crosses?
Yes.
>What was the point of the Microsoft acquisition
The point is that mega corporations eat one another until there will be only 1 omni corporation left.
And you will only work for the 1 omni corporation, you will only buy from this 1 omni corporation and you will subscribe to this 1 omni corporation.
BECAUSE THIS IS HOW CAPITALISM WORKS !
1 omni corporation soon fellow stalker.
I will NEVER forgive them for what they did to N'Zoth after years of edging me.
>Ny'alotha had been teased for ten years
>it turned out to just be a shitty raid with the worst ending in game until that point
I still think Dragon Soul was worse.
Potentially, especially with them going back on the whole "age of mortals" thing in DF.
>the fricking Kamehameha at the end
Our characters should've yelled something about the power of friendship tbh
Our characters don't have friends. Hell, our characters very existence in the narrative is nebulous at best.
Khadgar is a friend..
I subscribe to the headcanon that Shadowlands is a N'zoth-induced horror dream while we're all asleep in Ny'alotha
>I subscribe to the headcanon that everything after c'thun is in the character mind after we were corrupted
me too anon , me too
Technically, all of warcraft 3 is retconned by Shadowlands, and therefore it affects virtually everything from vanilla as well.
>the entirety of the Undead campaign in TFT is now forces of the Jailer all fighting one another for some reason
The reason was Nerzhul and Arthas being disobedient little shits
That's why jailer tortured the frick out of them after they died
>TFT
Don't be silly anon WoW killed he RTS Warcraft, it is all made for zoomers now, they do not know what TFT is.
Half of vanilla was old gods and dragons, neither of which were related to the jailer
In fact old god plots are basically completely independent of Legion
Warcraft 3 was technically entirely retconned by WoW vanilla as WoW happens in an alt timeline.
>WoW happens in an alt timeline.
Says who? WoW and WC3 were developed alongside each other. Metzen got pissy because a lot of the dev team couldn't understand the difference between "The Scourge" and "The Forsaken" before either game was finished.
Says me. WoW lore happens after the self insert of a writer traveled back to time and changed the events of the wota.
As a result, WoW happens in a different timeline as Wc3 which is why wc3 is incoherant (nelves never saw orcs despite worshipping brox in WoW, Illidan being called the betrayer when he betrayed no one in the WoW timeline, etc).
>Says me.
So it's headcanon.
It's not headcanon moron it's literally the lore of WoW.
Rhonin (self insert of knaak) traveled back to time with some orcs n shit.
Therefore the story of wota is literally different from the one you read in the wc3 manual.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/War_of_the_Ancients_Trilogy
>Still playing W*rcraft in 2022
I cant imagine why someone who never cared enough to play wow would even care to know such information
At which level can you freely explore the world ?
The world is just full of mobs that kill you unless you're high enough level to kill them. There's nothing to really explore.
>There's nothing to really explore.
If you actually wanna explore in the old fashioned way there's plenty
if you want to "explore" in the viddygame way where you locate treasure, not so much
Grim im only level 10
depends on what you mean by world
latest expansion content is always designed for the ten levels before max level, but when you reach that point the rest of the game world will be trivial content that you can oneshot
so if you're max level you can explore anywhere
You can go anywhere you want right now, but cata turned every zone into linear meme storylines instead of the functional and believable frontiers they used to be, you'll have a much better experience leveling in classic
>reading Kel'thuzad's Shadowlands section on Wowpedia
what the frick did they do to my boy
Kel'thuzad somehow got retconned like three times over the course of a single patch.
There are multiple level of problems and bad retcons, but I'll list the ones that really bug me:
>WoD time travel breaking timelines
this opens a huge can of worms in which there are infinite multiverses and you can just jump to another one kinda easily, and nobody does this multiple times just cuz??
also the demons you face in WoD are the same from the regular timeline, making things even weirder considering they can invade planets earlier in the timeline then...? it's a fricking mess
>Shadowlands making death trivial
oh no! X just died oh no... welp, let's go to Shadowlands to visit them
better yet, let's talk to the Kyrians/Pelagos to get X back alive!
trivializing death is almost always a bad thing, fricking dumb writers
>retcons
The one offender that I think is actually really really really bad is making Arthas just a pawn to THE JAILORRR and then making him such a boring shit villain. Congratulations, Blizz, retroactively making The Lich King, probably your biggest villain in terms of popularity etc, worse.
>horde leader seems morally ambiguous
>hehe now he's hitler
>horde leader seems morally ambiguous
>hehe now she's hitler
and Sylvanas going "UHHH ARE WE THE BAD GUYS?" once the Jailer goes "all. will. serve."? what the fricking FRICK were you expecting, Sylvanas? fricking moron
and then later Jailer goes UHHH NOOOO I WAS ACTUALLY HELPING YOU FROM GREATER EBIL.... why the frick did you say that earlier about serving then? absolute shit writing
>this opens a huge can of worms in which there are infinite multiverses and you can just jump to another one kinda easily, and nobody does this multiple times just cuz??
That's not new, and has been the case since Cata. The Bronze dragons are the ones in charge of making sure things foow the 'proper' timeline and that people outside it don't frick with things. It was a Bronze artifact that fricked things up to begin with in WoD.
Not saying that's much better, but there IS official stuff for it.
when it's something kinda minor it's easier to wave it off or make excuses, but if it's the foundation of an entire expansion it it just becomes a huge elephant in the room
>also the demons you face in WoD are the same from the regular timeline
what?
yes
I think that was because one writer on twitter was like "No guys, you beat the real Archimonde! how epic is that" it was a way to make players feel cool that went too far.
I am not sure if it's really canon or not.
It's canon as Archimonde doesn't how up in Legion
Because he died in WC3?
Demons respawn sweetie
plot armor is countered by plot weapons
Actually that's ANOTHER retconned from WoW:
Demons don't die EXCEPT in the twisting neither bullshit because they wanted to bring back dead legion character EXCEPT archimonde 🙂
Don't forget, the twisting nether retcon makes it exist outside time and space.
>oh no! X just died oh no... welp, let's go to Shadowlands to visit them
We have had talk to the dead/ghosts quests since vanilla
Death never mattered. In TBC it was merely a setback and in bfa Sylvanas dredged up Jainas brother and brought him back no problem
lmao if you think anyone in this thread has actually played since tbc
>oh no! X just died oh no... welp, let's go to Shadowlands to visit them
See
Introducing a afterlife ruins fiction especially if it is like you have shown.
>remember Helya was alive and she made a deal with Sylvanus
lol
lmao
How would you frickers fix Shadowlands
>J'lor is actually the unborn Titan that Sargeras had to kill
>Gets sent to The Maw for reasons he doesn't know and nobody explains them, because the afterlife is a completely fricking backwards system
>Denathrius reaches out to him in secret and starts feeding him info, saying he feels bad for J'lor
>In actuality Denathrius just wants to take over the Shadowlands to feed his own thirst
>J'lor actually does want to fix the Shadowlands, but is working off bad info as to how and ends up supplying Denathrius and the Dreadlords with new weapons and magic (i.e. the Lich King)
>J'lor entered a pact with Sylvanas, still working off bad info tells her that if the Arbiter ever gets fricked up then that'll be the time to send a lot of souls to help overturn everything
>Argus dies and breaks the Arbiter, J'lor gives Sylvanas the signal, BFA happens (with more allusion to J'lor working in the background)
>SL starts, Sylvanas snatches Anduin and Thrall to let them in on the 'plan'
>They immediately call BS, J'lor resorts to mind control magic Denathrius taught him
>Clearly doesn't like doing it but is stressed to get things going before the Arbiter wakes back up
>SL shows all four major afterlives being fricked up places nobody should want to end up, all being run by the stupidest fricking leaders imagineable (besides Denathrius, who's absolutely corrupt)
>J'lor is the first major raid, end reveals Denathrius as the bigger bad (which was hinted at throughout the expansion), Sylvanas and J'lor escape while Anduin and Thrall are freed
>Next patch deals with Denathrius' attempted takeover, ends with him dying
>His death jump starts the Arbiter, who is royally pissed that the shitty afterlives are being fricked with and goes to activate the reset button at Zereth Mortis
>J'lor and Sylvanas resurface to try and stop it, help out a bit
>J'lor becomes the new better Arbiter. Sylvanas takes over running the Maw
see
J'lor is a shit character and deserves to be cut. The Primus would have been a better villain if you wanted a mastermind god of death behind it all, which is what i think they originally planed to do before Danuser watched Infinity War.
I just want a villain motivation that isn't "BUT DEN DA BIGGER BAD IS COMING!!!!"
I'm shackled to this godforsaken game but i have no faith in the writers, somehow the ancient evil awakening in dragonflight will be tied to some absolute light guardians horseshit
>I'm shackled to this godforsaken game
Literally how ! Explain !
J'lor is just mad at his lot, none of this zereth Mortis robot prototypes shit, he's just super devil in super hell that wants to rule all the afterlifes
He wasn't behind everything evar, just grabbed souls where he could as they died, started whispering to Sylvanas after the Valkyr thing failed in stormheim and she gave up trying on that front.
Ultimately just wants souls not to be locked to their afterlives but free to travel whichever ones they want
>by fighting against him in your covenants you're actually slowly achieving his goals
>patches begin to merge elements of different zones, like the blue guys zone will start growing out of control and get a forest, the ash wastes in revendreth will get maldraxxus soldiers begin rising, etc.
>Also some new fricking zones for fricks sake you chose the most bland afterlives
>last patch, maw is now the convergence point of all afterlives, with whacky combos of different zones
>final raid has bosses that are an amalgamation of all the different themes, as the walls of the afterlife crash down around you
>raid team defeat J'lor, he announces he doesn't care because he's achieved what he set out to do
>Dies, respawns 5 feet away because he's the ruler of hell in hell and shrugs at you
>How would you frickers fix Shadowlands
Do not introduce the afterlife or you know EXPLODE the shadow lands.
They're just going to keep passing the buck on who the big bad is until the story is finally discontinued, aren't they
Of course. The writers are idiots who think they need to raise the stakes every time, so they can never have one final villain.
I wish they would just retcon WoW
Same. Just delete everything and start over. I have such an intense apathy towards WoW lore now. Not only is it moronic, but because everything can be retconned in a moment's notice, it's impossible to actually give a shit about anything that happens in the lore. There can't be any stakes or any personal investment if a major event just ceases to exist or any character can just come back from the dead like it's nothing.
speaking of Mogu
I'm kinda sad we never saw Chad Thunderwiener in Hots.
He should have been the final villain in MoP
Frick Garrosh "MUH FAWTHA"
Why was he resurrected in his prime when he died of old age?
I thought the Tol'vir nuked him using Uldum?
hes a robot
The mogu aren't all robots, only some of them have cured their curse of flesh
We might. Odyn is now truly free from Valar and was the titan Keeper that opposed the creation of the dragonflights, so he might be an important character in this xpac, but its nublizz so idfk
He didn't, Lei Shen died when Tol'vir activated their Origination Engine and nuked what's now Southern Kalimdor into a desert.
I kinda wish we saw more infighting betwern the Titan Construct factions honestly.
what is a retcon in WoW that was actually good?
The major cosmology retcon they did for legion actually made the setting make sense and anyone who denies this is a nostalgiagay that thinks vanilla actually had good writing or a story
the stories in vanilla were actually good. ZG, BWL, and MC all had decent storylines that spanned throughout the whole game
It had decent self contained stories but the state of the world and overarching narrative was moronic and made no sense coming off wc3
how so? I cant think of any story that I found particularly bad off hand
Not really since titans had too much overlap with other elements
Is there a Void Lord of Life or a Chaos Lord of Life like Freya was the Arcane Lord of Life?
vanilla is the only moment when WoW had decent writing.
this is canon , wow lore ended here
Everything else is fanfiction
A Warcraft 'canon-legends' split is the only way you could possibly claw back any semblance of coherence. It is time for WoW 2 and it is time to throw everything that happened after WC3 in the fire, salvaging only the charred remains of the few good ideas that snuck through the gaps.
We need a WC4 that ignores WoW as a fever dream of some guy who overdosed on shrooms.
We need a WC4 set on WoD during the timeskip
how is it that the player characters of WoW can defeat archimonde but the night elves + alliance + horde combined couldnt?
quality over quantity. also its a game
Why can't the player characters defeat Jaina then?
cuz we're speshul
you are the good guy so of course you will win
what? you picked forsaken? well too bad now go be a good moronic peacemaker
One of my least favorite retcons is nathanos having a coat now.
there's not enough bandwidth on the Ganker servers, anon.
all you need to know is that most retcons before bfa/sl worked within the confines of the internal consistency of the universe, what made sense within the universe. the chronicle achieved this decently. SL destroyed it all and basically rebooted the setting.
Imagine an entire thread tearing apart earlier retcons then you still come in here and try to justify them as making sense
Even right now the discussion is how does magic work and the answer is lmaowhoknows
There's no internal consistency and there never was. World destroying primordial entities like Murmur are dungeon bosses while a strong orc takes 20 people to kill
>how does magic work
magic is magic
creating hard rules for magic is peak onions and just turns magic into another physical force
>Jaina is a girl boss mage queen because....she just is okay? It's magic dint worry about it
Shut up moron
Go slurp onions while watching star wars, homosexual
the problem with magic isn't retcons, it's incompetent "rule of cool" homosexuals doing dumb shit. the old devs are guilty of this as much as the new devs are guilty of being homosexual cretins.
magic isn't just magic, like in dnd or elder scrolls. each cosmic power is its own distinct energy. but bad writing has made it all basically capable of the same shit now. everything can teleport, heal, raise the dead, and it hurts the distinctness of these powers, but it's never going to change.
why was Illidan able to defeat turalyon and the naaru so easily?
He just can ok
Demon hunters were new and OP.
Paladins are bad
He asked his mentor to forgive him for going all out just this once
what is the most "chad" think that happened in WoW in the last 10 years?
Dadghar saw BFA and fricked off to his tower never to be seen or heard from again.
Garrosh ignoring Anduin's peace speech and dropping a giant bell on him
The deathlord killing Alexstrasza's babies until someone told her where her ex boyfriend was buried so he could turn him into a mount
This was one of the best moments and it's all in character. I mean, Shadowlands is still a fricking mess, and like tons of WoW nowadays you have to try to isolate stuff to be able to enjoy stuff that is good by itself, but still.
Why did Sylvanas destroy the helm of domination and open the gate to Shadowlands?
anyone like the older warcraft games?
>anyone like the older warcraft games?
YES