>Wild Offerings + Darkmoon cards to farm >Rep farm in Emerald Nightmare >Actually fun bosses in the raid >Chase gear to farm from dungeons (ZF sword, Mara dagger)
It's the best phase so far and it isn't even close. The pvp is pretty unfun though, and I loved Classic pvp
going from 10 man format to 20 man is a big one
tons of groups either tried recruiting and failed or don't want to merge with other groups because they enjoyed their 10 man groups where they didn't have to adhere to a strict weekly schedule or deal with moronic loot systems and the drama and bullshit that comes with having 20 morons in a raid so their teams simply died out because theres ultimately nothing to do in SOD other than raidlog with the boys
incursions are the most retail shit and ruining the game economy combined with bots getting assfricked so raiding consumable prices have skyrocketed, also "ruining the leveling experience" since nobody runs dungeons or quests just spam incursion AFK runs
people that would've leveled don't want to anymore because incursion xp got nerfed and now feel its a waste of time to even begin because they're too far behind because they didn't get on the exploit train early
people simply getting burned out from playing a dogshit game which then causes their friends to also quit because WoW is a miserably dogshit game and even worse to play solo
It has always been the same thing as people has been echoing since before Classic. Classic should not be classic history. It should not be season of minute change. It should be Classic +. Everybody knows it. The issues with WOW and what we have learned are known and discussed to death. Just fricking do it, instead of trying to save every cent possible.
thats complete bullshit it should be classic as it has been with new fresh servers once in a while, no add ons, no legal GDKPs, merging servers that get lower populations regularly, removing server migration, preventing player from joining factions that are too numberous compared to the other side, and thats it
they couldnt do the bare minimum, they had to give server data to players to make them emigrate n kill servers
blizzard is so greedy that they end up making less money because they re a bunch of incompetent morons / short term minded parasites killing the company to make slightly higher numbers at the end of the year
how could you even possibly believe that NuBlizzard could do anything like classic +? people paly classic precisely to avoid NuBlizzard s trash. SoD is garbo, smaller changes to make bosses stronger was the only thing decent they did, they should also improve hp pools
Perfect example of the defeatist attitude that got us here. It can't be done, therefore we must continue to not solve the problem. Ok then why are we sitting complaining about it if we can't solve it. Seasons (fresh servers) is not sustainable and you're ultimately targeting a single digit percentage of players.
>YAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS THE EXACT SAME GAME FROM 20 YEARS AGO THAT HAS BEEN AVAILABLE IN PRIVATE SERVERS SINCE FRICKING FOREVER
thats complete bullshit it should be classic as it has been with new fresh servers once in a while, no add ons, no legal GDKPs, merging servers that get lower populations regularly, removing server migration, preventing player from joining factions that are too numberous compared to the other side, and thats it
they couldnt do the bare minimum, they had to give server data to players to make them emigrate n kill servers
blizzard is so greedy that they end up making less money because they re a bunch of incompetent morons / short term minded parasites killing the company to make slightly higher numbers at the end of the year
how could you even possibly believe that NuBlizzard could do anything like classic +? people paly classic precisely to avoid NuBlizzard s trash. SoD is garbo, smaller changes to make bosses stronger was the only thing decent they did, they should also improve hp pools
This is the actual problem with Classic. It's two exclusive things to two types of people. The people that was no-changes Classic will quit Classic+. The people that want Classic+ will get bored with and quit no-changes Classic. The actual solution, and it at least seems to be what Blizzard is trying, is both. SoD for people that want Classic+ and Classic Era servers for people that want no-changes.
Devs wanted something interesting but it lasted one phase
After that it was just shoehorned abilities and shit balance
As the game moved to later phases instead of making more interesting at the level bands they tossed in random slop
Now that we are just on some devs p server dream people ate finally checking out. Lost most of a raid team that was running 2 groups for gnomer which killed motivation to keep raid leading g and helping run a guild
the only classes that are remotely intriguing are the new ones: tank lock/rogue, healer mage, melee hunter. every other class just has a bunch of random wotlk skills tacked on and feels like a worse version of it.
P3 is mega gay >10->20 man requiring significant social changes >ST raid too long >another new faction to grind (did you forget about the supply company blizz?) >powerful classes continue to be powerful, other classes forgotten about >clear lack of testing >incursions are terrible in every respect
josh seems like a well meaning guy, but he's clearly above his head in competency
>clear lack of testing
Honestly the biggest boner killer for me. Shit is just so undercooked. Ashenvale PvP event was the first sign of this. I wouldn't mind betatesting if it was free, but it isn't so some level of competency is to be expected.
what amazes me more is that Holly was in charge of EQ server stuff and what worked easily there for new servers is not even being done here.
Instead if FOMO Panda, Cata Speed run and Classic Retial edition.
How hard is it to just Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath loop every three years or so?
>How hard is it to just Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath loop every three years or so?
What about the people that want the Vanilla -> TBC only loop? What about the people that want just Wrath? What about the people that want Vanilla though MoP? WoW is so many different things to so many people they're never going to have everything for everyone.
Holy amazingly solved this problem in the past by just having progression servers. Basically what they are doing right now except restarting servers more often than blizzard ( see never). They even announced new servers starting over in EQ in the last few weeks.
This is clearly not an unsolvable problem for them to start and people to jump in at whatever point they want
maybe holly wasn't a big of a driving force behind EQ seasonals as thought? or blizz has a bigger plan in motion here to try to get retail "fixed" and everyone onboard? i don't know. having just done the 1-80 vanilla->wotlk pipeline over last 4.5 years, I don't want to do it all over again
i want something not too alien, but not just the same either
>blizz has a bigger plan in motion here to try to get retail "fixed" and everyone onboard?
I feel like it's this. It's Blizzard's usual arrogance that everyone need to play the game the way they want you to play it. The Wrath servers are just going to keep progressing until they catch up to Retail, at which point they'll become normal servers. Then you've got the Panda Remix thing that is also meant to drive people to Retail as well.
Basically, they want you to stop playing that old shit and get on board with their new stuff.
I could certinaly see this.
Also she was fleeing the sinking ship to get Blizzard money. She seems rather high up in blizzard dev process for releasing these FOMO vventures....
Probably the worst part. Done 2 clears now but i think half my raid group wants to stop doing it because its so boring clearing trash and running 10mins to the next boss. Also doesn't drop enough loot for 20 people/once a week compared to bfd/gnomer.
On top of that no one wants to bother trying to find new people/pugs to fill spots, so looks like p3 is already over.
It's even worse because the loot isn't even that great compared to P2.
The step-up from Gnomeregan is minimal outside of the epics, and then you're not only battling the odds to get the epic to drop, but you're competing with other 9-10 people which is even worse if you have to rely on randoms who end up vacuuming the loot too because people get tired of it and stop showing up.
pvp is trash
raid going from 10 man to 20 killing guilds. ST should have been a 15 man to help guilds adjust.
Melee classes all use leather
caster classes all use cloth
PVP rep farm is just killing an npc every day for 1k rep and doing an STV event and handing in lumber
economy is fricked from the first week of p3
P3 released right as winter squid is out of season
Anyone playing WoW pve seriously outside of retail are just trash players overprepping for 3 minute boss fights and uploading logs online to feel good
the pvp is shit. A lot of people only play classic for the PvP. the raids have always been shit in classic. SoD pvp is the worst PvP wow has ever had. only a few morons who picked an OP as frick class and have no self awareness disagree.
Incursions takes up too much quest log and bag space its not worth doing after honored. Opening the envelopes to loot your quest also takes 6 mouse clicks
>what went wrong
You can't run an mmo that hasn't been PTR tested in some capacity. Every patch is going to be a new disaster. And I'm not sure who thought the "spirit of vanilla WoW" entailed adding several tiers of raiding before the end-game tiers of raiding. More tiers of raiding might be the least vanilla WoW thing I can think of. Making guilds transform from 10 to 20 to (eventually) 40-person raid guilds is going to cause too much organizational friction.
this is basically what people meant when they said they wanted vanilla+ Hybrids wanted to become damn near unkillable gods who can 2 shot people. blizzards big mistake was letting non hybrids also 2 shot people, otherwise this would have been the perfect classic+ for many.
No this is not what people wanted with Vanilla+. How is a seasonal server, with level gated content, mage healers/shaman tanks, incursions power leveling in line with Vanilla+? Vanilla+ purist just wanted a Vanilla 1.12 server baseline and then build ontop of that with new leveling zones, new quests in old zones, new dungeons, new raids. You can add new tier sets for specs like shadow priest and feral druid that would make them competitive while maintaining the overall good class balance that vanilla had instead of this absolute abomination of class design that SoD is.
This is an easy criticism to make but look at how the SoD player base developed. Blizzard is shit but parsehomosexualry and zoom zoom attitudes took over SoD from the very first phase, I don't know where the frick SoD's audience came but they weren't playing retail, weren't playing classic, and didn't want "Classic+". And now SoD is even more retail than retail itself. Those Nightmare Incursions are basically the future of SoD, and it's fricking grim because the people playing SoD LOVE them.
Because people who like vanilla already got their fix, as should be clear from how dead the ERA is. Vanilla+ is mostly about fricking around in the systems and trying to find some well-received nugget they can transplant into Retail.
Classic in general is mostly there so that people who are nostalgic for that time 15 years ago when they played with their mates and killed immerseus in a really epic way get into it, then ideally convert into Retail paypiggies. Blizz doesn't actually care about Classic gays.
>Because people who like vanilla already got their fix, as should be clear from how dead the ERA is
Era isn't evidence for anything, the realms have been on the same patch for 4 years and most characters were forcibly moved to TBC/WotLK.
No dual-spec is moronic
Dwarf Shaman/Tauren Paladin should've been added at the start
Raids not being 40-man kills the grand scale that classic WoW had
>ignore conceptual problems for 3 phases straight >zero testing >no new content >Aggrend goes on classes discord and pinky promises he'll maybe look at them at 60
Just let it go brother
Everyone moving to XIV
Everyone prepping for Elden Ring DLC
in the end vanilla still isn't fun
they finally realized that it's retail lite
>Wild Offerings + Darkmoon cards to farm
>Rep farm in Emerald Nightmare
>Actually fun bosses in the raid
>Chase gear to farm from dungeons (ZF sword, Mara dagger)
It's the best phase so far and it isn't even close. The pvp is pretty unfun though, and I loved Classic pvp
The CIA are creating a never-ending stream of WoW slop to burn out the current generation of NEETY kids. Like they did with Legion.
going from 10 man format to 20 man is a big one
tons of groups either tried recruiting and failed or don't want to merge with other groups because they enjoyed their 10 man groups where they didn't have to adhere to a strict weekly schedule or deal with moronic loot systems and the drama and bullshit that comes with having 20 morons in a raid so their teams simply died out because theres ultimately nothing to do in SOD other than raidlog with the boys
incursions are the most retail shit and ruining the game economy combined with bots getting assfricked so raiding consumable prices have skyrocketed, also "ruining the leveling experience" since nobody runs dungeons or quests just spam incursion AFK runs
people that would've leveled don't want to anymore because incursion xp got nerfed and now feel its a waste of time to even begin because they're too far behind because they didn't get on the exploit train early
people simply getting burned out from playing a dogshit game which then causes their friends to also quit because WoW is a miserably dogshit game and even worse to play solo
>going from 10 man format to 20 man is a big one
you're right, they need to jump straight to 40 man
anything else is retail shit
It has always been the same thing as people has been echoing since before Classic. Classic should not be classic history. It should not be season of minute change. It should be Classic +. Everybody knows it. The issues with WOW and what we have learned are known and discussed to death. Just fricking do it, instead of trying to save every cent possible.
thats complete bullshit it should be classic as it has been with new fresh servers once in a while, no add ons, no legal GDKPs, merging servers that get lower populations regularly, removing server migration, preventing player from joining factions that are too numberous compared to the other side, and thats it
they couldnt do the bare minimum, they had to give server data to players to make them emigrate n kill servers
blizzard is so greedy that they end up making less money because they re a bunch of incompetent morons / short term minded parasites killing the company to make slightly higher numbers at the end of the year
how could you even possibly believe that NuBlizzard could do anything like classic +? people paly classic precisely to avoid NuBlizzard s trash. SoD is garbo, smaller changes to make bosses stronger was the only thing decent they did, they should also improve hp pools
Perfect example of the defeatist attitude that got us here. It can't be done, therefore we must continue to not solve the problem. Ok then why are we sitting complaining about it if we can't solve it. Seasons (fresh servers) is not sustainable and you're ultimately targeting a single digit percentage of players.
>YAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS THE EXACT SAME GAME FROM 20 YEARS AGO THAT HAS BEEN AVAILABLE IN PRIVATE SERVERS SINCE FRICKING FOREVER
This is the actual problem with Classic. It's two exclusive things to two types of people. The people that was no-changes Classic will quit Classic+. The people that want Classic+ will get bored with and quit no-changes Classic. The actual solution, and it at least seems to be what Blizzard is trying, is both. SoD for people that want Classic+ and Classic Era servers for people that want no-changes.
>Players are quitting en masse
Source?
Devs wanted something interesting but it lasted one phase
After that it was just shoehorned abilities and shit balance
As the game moved to later phases instead of making more interesting at the level bands they tossed in random slop
Now that we are just on some devs p server dream people ate finally checking out. Lost most of a raid team that was running 2 groups for gnomer which killed motivation to keep raid leading g and helping run a guild
Impressive of blizzard to slowly introduce classic gays to retail mechanics. Bravo.
the only classes that are remotely intriguing are the new ones: tank lock/rogue, healer mage, melee hunter. every other class just has a bunch of random wotlk skills tacked on and feels like a worse version of it.
P3 is mega gay
>10->20 man requiring significant social changes
>ST raid too long
>another new faction to grind (did you forget about the supply company blizz?)
>powerful classes continue to be powerful, other classes forgotten about
>clear lack of testing
>incursions are terrible in every respect
josh seems like a well meaning guy, but he's clearly above his head in competency
>clear lack of testing
Honestly the biggest boner killer for me. Shit is just so undercooked. Ashenvale PvP event was the first sign of this. I wouldn't mind betatesting if it was free, but it isn't so some level of competency is to be expected.
what amazes me more is that Holly was in charge of EQ server stuff and what worked easily there for new servers is not even being done here.
Instead if FOMO Panda, Cata Speed run and Classic Retial edition.
How hard is it to just Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath loop every three years or so?
>How hard is it to just Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath loop every three years or so?
What about the people that want the Vanilla -> TBC only loop? What about the people that want just Wrath? What about the people that want Vanilla though MoP? WoW is so many different things to so many people they're never going to have everything for everyone.
Holy amazingly solved this problem in the past by just having progression servers. Basically what they are doing right now except restarting servers more often than blizzard ( see never). They even announced new servers starting over in EQ in the last few weeks.
This is clearly not an unsolvable problem for them to start and people to jump in at whatever point they want
maybe holly wasn't a big of a driving force behind EQ seasonals as thought? or blizz has a bigger plan in motion here to try to get retail "fixed" and everyone onboard? i don't know. having just done the 1-80 vanilla->wotlk pipeline over last 4.5 years, I don't want to do it all over again
i want something not too alien, but not just the same either
>blizz has a bigger plan in motion here to try to get retail "fixed" and everyone onboard?
I feel like it's this. It's Blizzard's usual arrogance that everyone need to play the game the way they want you to play it. The Wrath servers are just going to keep progressing until they catch up to Retail, at which point they'll become normal servers. Then you've got the Panda Remix thing that is also meant to drive people to Retail as well.
Basically, they want you to stop playing that old shit and get on board with their new stuff.
well they want you to buy the 4942498389 microtransactions and upcoming expansions, no surprises there
I could certinaly see this.
Also she was fleeing the sinking ship to get Blizzard money. She seems rather high up in blizzard dev process for releasing these FOMO vventures....
>Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath loop
No one with taste wants to play Wrath
Isn't supply company pointless once you've gotten your one rune anyways?
yes, exactly
so get friendly, get rune, then forget every supply crate unless it just so lines up with your tradeskills to make some gold
>>ST raid too long
Probably the worst part. Done 2 clears now but i think half my raid group wants to stop doing it because its so boring clearing trash and running 10mins to the next boss. Also doesn't drop enough loot for 20 people/once a week compared to bfd/gnomer.
On top of that no one wants to bother trying to find new people/pugs to fill spots, so looks like p3 is already over.
It's even worse because the loot isn't even that great compared to P2.
The step-up from Gnomeregan is minimal outside of the epics, and then you're not only battling the odds to get the epic to drop, but you're competing with other 9-10 people which is even worse if you have to rely on randoms who end up vacuuming the loot too because people get tired of it and stop showing up.
When's phase 1 fresh?
Moved too fast. Phase 2 was barely up for any time at all
pvp is trash
raid going from 10 man to 20 killing guilds. ST should have been a 15 man to help guilds adjust.
Melee classes all use leather
caster classes all use cloth
PVP rep farm is just killing an npc every day for 1k rep and doing an STV event and handing in lumber
economy is fricked from the first week of p3
P3 released right as winter squid is out of season
Anyone playing WoW pve seriously outside of retail are just trash players overprepping for 3 minute boss fights and uploading logs online to feel good
>Players are quitting en masse
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
the pvp is shit. A lot of people only play classic for the PvP. the raids have always been shit in classic. SoD pvp is the worst PvP wow has ever had. only a few morons who picked an OP as frick class and have no self awareness disagree.
Incursions takes up too much quest log and bag space its not worth doing after honored. Opening the envelopes to loot your quest also takes 6 mouse clicks
>what went wrong
You can't run an mmo that hasn't been PTR tested in some capacity. Every patch is going to be a new disaster. And I'm not sure who thought the "spirit of vanilla WoW" entailed adding several tiers of raiding before the end-game tiers of raiding. More tiers of raiding might be the least vanilla WoW thing I can think of. Making guilds transform from 10 to 20 to (eventually) 40-person raid guilds is going to cause too much organizational friction.
What's the point of making a Vanilla+ but not making it appeal to people that like Vanilla?
this is basically what people meant when they said they wanted vanilla+ Hybrids wanted to become damn near unkillable gods who can 2 shot people. blizzards big mistake was letting non hybrids also 2 shot people, otherwise this would have been the perfect classic+ for many.
No this is not what people wanted with Vanilla+. How is a seasonal server, with level gated content, mage healers/shaman tanks, incursions power leveling in line with Vanilla+? Vanilla+ purist just wanted a Vanilla 1.12 server baseline and then build ontop of that with new leveling zones, new quests in old zones, new dungeons, new raids. You can add new tier sets for specs like shadow priest and feral druid that would make them competitive while maintaining the overall good class balance that vanilla had instead of this absolute abomination of class design that SoD is.
So basically what turtle wow is doing
More or less
>maintaining the overall good class balance that vanilla had
L O L
M
A
O
This is an easy criticism to make but look at how the SoD player base developed. Blizzard is shit but parsehomosexualry and zoom zoom attitudes took over SoD from the very first phase, I don't know where the frick SoD's audience came but they weren't playing retail, weren't playing classic, and didn't want "Classic+". And now SoD is even more retail than retail itself. Those Nightmare Incursions are basically the future of SoD, and it's fricking grim because the people playing SoD LOVE them.
Because people who like vanilla already got their fix, as should be clear from how dead the ERA is. Vanilla+ is mostly about fricking around in the systems and trying to find some well-received nugget they can transplant into Retail.
Classic in general is mostly there so that people who are nostalgic for that time 15 years ago when they played with their mates and killed immerseus in a really epic way get into it, then ideally convert into Retail paypiggies. Blizz doesn't actually care about Classic gays.
>Because people who like vanilla already got their fix, as should be clear from how dead the ERA is
Era isn't evidence for anything, the realms have been on the same patch for 4 years and most characters were forcibly moved to TBC/WotLK.
cute fox
No dual-spec is moronic
Dwarf Shaman/Tauren Paladin should've been added at the start
Raids not being 40-man kills the grand scale that classic WoW had
>No dual-spec is moronic
It has dual spec though
How do you not feel like a complete waste of space playing WoW in current year?
It just wasn't fun playing in segments, imo.
>ignore conceptual problems for 3 phases straight
>zero testing
>no new content
>Aggrend goes on classes discord and pinky promises he'll maybe look at them at 60
Just let it go brother
I can't find a class I like. I also made the mistake of rolling on a PVP server so late in phases.