>Writer presents the logical conclusion of the Pokemon Universe
>"Lol edgelord! "Lol, Peta would make this!" "Lol Dorkly video!"
Why?
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>Writer presents the logical conclusion of the Pokemon Universe. >"Lol edgelord!
Bootlicker fandom
Shudo was a moron
says the moron that likes baby shit and believes in its autismo headcanon that pokeballs and the pokemon society are good when the games state endless times how theyre a trashy dystopia constantly splatted on your face in every game and an entire generation almost only based on that
By the way it's also the logical conclusion that gamefreak is getting to. not exactly the way youd think tho
No I don’t think the anime or games have ever told a good story and anyone who thinks they have is autistic
They havent ever told a complete story, mostly due to greed, to wanting to keep it casual and sell the most, to censorship and what not, the mewtwo movie alone was like at least half censored. but they did tell endless good and extremely profound stories that arent always completely splatted on your face and require you to use at least a bunch of brain cells to understand them and the meraphors they bring.
okay dude
(you)
Based and historically accurate pilled
Not as much as Lugiafricker
Yeah uh huh just like Zack Snyder is the only person who understood Superman.
>Ermmmm.. le bright and happy stuff is actually… DARK?! What!!!!
>Ermmm, yeah, this guy TRULY Pokemons!
I really sincerely wish I was disabled enough to fall into that mindset, my life would probably be easier
Yeah I would, the anime is nothing to this series
>Everything should be le happeh and funneh because conflict makes me have a heckin sad
Zoomers are so mentally diseased
>Everything should be le edgy and "mature" because kids fantasy makes me heckin mad
Zoomers are so mentally diseased
You can have both
Not as big of a moron as Tajiri
>Let's have pokemon be dumb dogs!
Don't forget alcoholic, drug addict and literal troony.
how was him a troony? if anything it makes me think that trannies may not be so bad at writing plots as they also wrote matrix which is a contemporary masterpiece
>designed a super speshul self-insert pokémon
>makes it male
>gets upset when executives mandate it to be male, due to little boys being more receptive to male protags
>turns to booze and pills in a depressive state
If it wasn't for the aneurysm, I'd have guaranteed he'd have walked into a forest somewhere.
Lugia didnt have that design at first. In Shudo's concept she had to be a whale and a mother, sugimori's lugia looks pretty much nothing like a whale.
>missing the point
And the sex change wasn't really a sex change then? Frick off you simp child. The basic facts is he wanted to make a super-speshul female self-insert that would be exclusive to his movie, got rebuffed by both Game Freak (who mandated that no-one by they or those they contracted would ever create a pokémon for the canon again after fixing its mess into what became lugia - sufimori specifically adapting it) and the executives of the anime, who told shudo (who worked in kid's telly and really should have understood his audience or at least the tv show's metrics) that little boys prefer male protags, thus the star and feature of the thing was to be male. This made our young 50 year old writer, long-timer in the industry have a depressive breakdown and turn to pills and booze to handle it. There's a clear trigger here and that's having the super-speshul, unique and exclusive female pokémon be turned into a generic male legendary pokémon, just like genetics conspired against ol' shudo there.
>GameFreak changes the gender of a fictional character during development
>this makes the real life human who came up with them transsexual
You brain is so deeply rotted that you’ve convinced yourself this is true. You’re so obsessed with trans people that you’re seeing them in places they don’t exist.
moron poster.
Shudo explicitly self-inserted into Lugia, hence why he wanted it female.
>headcanon
Yeah ok
Lugia is not a self insert
He wanted a waifu
Thankfully execs fixed it
he's not trans
I am a moron
Cope. Shudo was the only person who understood Pokemon
But he didn't, he didn't even talk to the man who'd invented it, if that Tajiri quote regarding the anime's anything to go by. Because that implies Tajiri gave ascension for the IP to be turned into a cartoon, but didn't seem to have any conversations with the man who'd wrote it...
Taijiri wanted it to be a soulless bug catching simulator
>tajiri wanted it to be an experience he understood modern children would never have, that of exploring open woodland and interacting with nature
The very fact each and every game's introduction hypes up jumping into the new region and exploring to find critters everywhere just roves that. You just ewant edgy tweenager bullshit, because you obsessed over that shit for so long and wish you'd done better with your life. Tough shit, you reap what you sow and the autistic reap it tenfold.
>Edgy edgy edgy edgy
Learn a new fricking word zoomer
Nice projection there
Not really. The series is propagating what Tajiri brought to the table and he didn't implement anything that he personally didn't agree with in the first two Gens. By the time he'd handed off to Masuda, he'd trusted him implicitly when it came to understanding Tajiri's world and the fact Ohmori continues to direct without Masuda in power just shows Tajiri thought similar of him.
And meanwhile, angsty, overtly-invested young adults rage ineffectually over the thing online.
Nice projection there
Tajiri didn't understand Pokemon either. The game was inspired by his nostalgia for bug catching in 70s Japan, and the Pokemon were only included as an afterthought, as a plot device. He doesn't care about Pokemon.
I've seen some moron, pondwater temp IQ takes on here in 13 years. You've just took the gold medal.for that category.
Name one time Tajiri wanted to actually give Pokemon creatures any narrative depth. Not once. He was explicitly against it to the point where he didn't want Meowth, one of the most beloved and iconic characters, to even exist. He even says in his autobiographical manga that he only wanted them to be mere pets.
So yes, sad as it may be, he never really cared much about the Pokemon.
without him you wouldn't be sitting here making moronic posts
He slept with Megumi (voice of Jessie) and wanted to off himself when she rejected his marriage proposal
Unless he forced himself on her, there's no way she would have touched him in that manner. Man was fricking 50 and not attractive, had no power beyond writing the stories (and even then, that was fricking limited) and had no big name recognition to afford himself that type of influence.
There's also the fact he's a woman-hating incel, who's personal fanfic had Delia a self-insert for his own mother's disappointment in him.
He knew her from that Minky Momo show he wrote (the one where he makes this little girl get hit by a bus and other weird shit) and Shudo based Jessie off of her and that's why TR was so beloved by him cause he fell in love with Megumi lol
You writing real-life fanfiction doesn't actually mean that's what happened. They may have known each other, but she clearly was seeing someone when the anime started up. IF he did proposition her, it just speaks to his egotistical sense of self-importance that he thought she'd even consider dumping the man she was due to marry, for a boomer frick, still smarting from getting kicked off the little girl's show.
This was all around 96' - 97', she got married after all this happened.
Anon, the anime didn't start up until '97, she got married 9 months later and I guarantee she was seeing her husband-to-be longer than a whirlwind 9 months. Shudo was a mental case beyond being a mindbroken, oblivious moron.
Just because you blame women for your ills, doesn't mean they're to blame for other mens'. Sometimes, it IS all the man's own fault and thinking you're the sole reason for the success of an IP that even caused you to get a job back in kid's telly in the first place absolutely betrays how fricking deranged Shudo was. If you're taking his own words from it, reminder people rarely post their innermost thoughts publicly and didn't actually have the breakdown until Lugia which was a year after Megumi got married. Timeframes don't match, but whatever helps you handle the fact your god was a fricking lunatic.
>"NOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE THE POKEMON BE ANTAGONISTS!!! THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO JUST BE WHOLESOME PWNSOME BEASTERINOS, TAJIRI SAID SO!!! NOOOOOOO!!!!!"
Isn't he the guy who fell in love with Lugia?
>logical
If the writer had played the games, or indeed even sat down with the creator to glean his thoughts on the matter, he wouldn't have decided this.
Alas, he was a hubristic troony, with multi-substance abuse issues by the time he was nearing the end of his employment on the anime and as he'd thought HE had made the brand what it was becoming with his telly show, felt if he couldn't continue to run the show, no-one would as he'd write the scenario into an ending they couldn't handwave away to restart.
And now he's dead and Pokémon's only growing bigger. Go fig.
>If the writer had played the games, or indeed even sat down with the creator to glean his thoughts on the matter, he wouldn't have decided this.
As if you did or understood anything about the games with your autistic little brainlet.
>Alas, he was a hubristic troony, with multi-substance abuse issues by the time he was nearing the end of his employment on the anime and as he'd thought HE had made the brand what it was becoming with his telly show, felt if he couldn't continue to run the show, no-one would as he'd write the scenario into an ending they couldn't handwave away to restart.
And now he's dead and Pokémon's only growing bigger. Go fig.
Literal autismo diarrhea babble. and his depression was most likely the reason he was so thoughtful and made such profound plotlines, outlining what would've been a full masterpiece if they didnt censor the mewtwo vs mew movie to make it cutiepieautismolie and baby shit. Still, the reason it's so good and all of the great lines mewtwo say is only thanks to shudo, and to gamefreak making mewtwo in the first place. because actually gamefreaks vision is extremely similar to shudo's, regardless from what your baby tard brain wants to believe about pokémon being a happygolucky autismic world.
Black person, it wopuld all have been forgotten by the target audience. And as you didn't fricking existy until well after the movie launched and they started churning out sequels, I don't think you're best to comment on what kids would have thought of it back in the day, much less adults who were in full "this is a fad" mode.
oh my freaking gloss THE TARGET AUDIENCE!!! HOLD MY BABY SHIT FOR A MOMENT AUTISTIC homosexual
How is a literal moron use "but think of da children;)" as an excuse, then proceeds to accuse others of being younger than xim, all the while claiming its opinion on playing a "da childrans game" at 37 matters anything?
You want baby shit because youre moronic. It has absolute nothing to do with either dA TarGeT AudIenCe oH my FrEaKinG gLoSs Hold mY HrT PillS, and neither with children. Children DON'T want autistic baby games. When i was 10 it was already considered ridicolous playing "da childrans game" pokemon among all other 10 yos. When I was 9 I didnt want to see pikachu and jigglypuff squirting diarrhea on ash's face, i wanted to see giratina and badass shit like that.
This "baby target autismo audience" is factually inexistent and its real meaning and aim is to casual soulless trannies/autists like many in the poketard fandom. The purpose of making it casual isnt to aim to babies though, but to aim to everyone. Stop using children as an excuse for your moronation, ridicolous lifestyle and vomiteous tastes. Normal children have good taste and avoid baby shit as soon as theyre 4 or 5.
At least here, it may be different among autistic americans and similars as Ive heard yall discover sex exists at 16 and shit thats absurd to say the least.
Because at that time, there was no fleet of manchild morons reared by the brand to be good little obsessed drones to fixate on this shit.
It was made to keep interest in the games, while Game Freak worked on Gen 2. That extended to the movie (they teased new Gen pokémon incoming, remember? Remember which audience they targeted with Gen 2?) being a vehicle to keep Pokémon relevant to 7-10 year old children, to ensure they still had a market before the fad crashed.
Stop talking about shit that's clearly above your comprehension level.
>his depression was most likely the reason he was so thoughtful and made such profound plotlines
lmao this is like those people who say they're really smart but just don't try.
I used to be so lazy
>he'd write the scenario into an ending they couldn't handwave away to restart.
God if only he did, that fricking anime went on for about 20 years too long.
Didn't you read the OP? Both that and "T-Rex comes back and kicks ARSE!" was shudo's hail mary's to kill it. And because he was so fricking self-obsessed, he didn't understand the thing was bigger than him and about to squash him like the bug he was (not bugman, they were all bugmen around him but an actual insect compared to Pikachu and his pulling power).
So small wonder the suits thanked him, escorted him from the premises and packed up his shit in a mailer box to send to his registered address.
We could've had a real ending. Instead we had the show drag on for decades, become a soul-less husk, and end with this.
It was never supposed to end, you stupid wienersnot. When they continued the game series, they similarly decided to use its best marketing tool further. Some egotistical, out-of-touch ACTUAL baby-boomer-era boomer frick deciding he didn't want to play pogeymans any more speaks to how obtuse the troony frick was, because Pokémon was still fricking monstrous in Japan then, while it died off to regress to its average in the west.
And I guarantee you're an afterbirth that started after Shudo got fricked out the wheelhouse too, so you're hypocritical as frick too. The cartoon is directly responsible for invested overage fans, as they were the ones actively watching and being introduced to all the new shit when their brains were malleable and formative. Pic very much related. The power of science is staggering!
Already covered that wienerbreath
. If it respects you, it will (even in-game, you, the MC, is stated to be some kind of savant, with a powerful aura/manner about you, clearly different and a level above most the trainers in a region). If it thinks you're a pussy b***h, it'll ignore you (outside trades or those caught beyond your badge exp in-game, the countless different pokémon that refused to battle due to lack of respect for the person attempting to command them in stark contrast to the many wild pokémon who battle under a person's guidance due to respect for the human). It's kodomo, not shonen. So it doesn't need to be randomly edgy to sell, little boys love the shit anyway without needing to add angst to it.
>Dude, creatures that can destroy an entire city and having an aggressive temperament, doing exactly that, is so edgy!! Omg!!
did you see destiny deoxys, rayquaza gets bodied by cities no cap
Go watch/Read Digimon instead.
Shudo understood that it's better to end something on a high note rather than have it continue as something soulless. Every Pokemon game, every anime series, every movie has worse writing than the last, and it will only get worse.
No, shudo was a seething frickwit, angry they were kicking off *his* telly show, based off the biggest kid's video game release of the 90's. Too fricking egotistical to understand he got the job because he was fricking cheap and it was nintendo paying for it, too fricking short-sighted to look beyond his box and see exactly what the rest of the franchise was doing in support of the games.
So small wonder he went scorched earth regarding it, "if i can't hacve it, NO-ONE CAN! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
The deranged troony forgot however the brand was bigger than him and just replaced him, leading to the second time he'd lost his job working on kid's telly.
It wouldn't have even ended the franchise, it just would have changed the dynamic between humans and the Pokemon. The reason they told him it would only be suitable for a finale is because you aren't supposed to change the status quo in an eternal franchise, even if doing so would make for a cool and kino movie. It's better to stick with what's known to work, rather than take a risk and venture into unsteady waters. Therefore that kind of story could only be done as a "go out with a bang" kind of thing, if it was clear that the death of the franchise was imminent.
And the fact he didn't realise it WAS an eternal franchise proves his egotistical, self-centred nature. He's handed new shit to promote in his series and still thought he got to change the dynamic because he was god.
Nothing you say has disproved my words - he was a frickwit too interested in the smell of his own farts to understand kids didn't give a shit for his stories, but the fact they had pokémon in them. If it was any other tv series not backed by what was turning into a phenomenon, it'd have gotten shitcanned like his last effort.
>spewing mental delusion unprompted
I didn't say that, he-who-cosplays-as-a-self-hating-dogfricker. I said the statement the creator didn't know what he'd wanted to do with the IP he'd created has to be the most moronic take I've seen in 13 years. Because what it has become is merely an extension to what he'd envisioned. He was the one who wrote 'dex entries and felt need to mention how Jynx seduced humans by wriggling her hips (as well as knowing Jynx was to be 100% female prior to Gen 2's implementation as they couldn't work how to add it for Gen 1, leading to Nidorina/Nidorino and Nidoking/queen).
You accuse others of being icegay, yet you're worshipping Tajiri and the company just like he does.
Maybe Pokemon would have turned out better if they followed Shudo's wacky ideas rather than treating it like the McDonald's of video games: awful, hastily produced slop.
No, icegay thinks tajiri was a simple man who made a series about pets, before the big bad masuda turned it furry.
I'm arguing Tajiri's the big furgay at GF HQ, this was always his hidden agenda and now that Masuda and Sugimori both fricked off, he's now pushing furry starters as shillmon, without Masuda whining "but little boys won't like a girly shillmon". NAd I don't worship him, more than I respect the frick out of him for using his own personal wank material to build a kid's series out of.
>No, icegay thinks tajiri was a simple man who made a series about pets, before the big bad masuda turned it furry.
Do you even know who you're talking about? He quotes Masuda all the time.
>I'm arguing Tajiri's the big furgay at GF HQ, this was always his hidden agenda
After gen 2, he went off to live in his traditional style Japanese millionaire mansion. I'd be surprised if he even knew what the gen 9 starters were.
Rent free
This is just one of those moronic ideas, writers never actually pitched
How edgy can you make genwun Pokemon? Without just straight up gore
he was mentally ill
I liked many things he did with the anime, like the whole mewtwo origin. And I have to say, the first movie is one of the best animated movies period.
But this sounded extremely autistic
Don't Pokemon enjoy fighting?
>Pikachu would become the leader of the revolt and end up fighting Ash.
You know what? I'm saying it.
It's really interesting how hellbent are Pokemon fans are on keeping Pokemon shit. Any other fanbase of any other setting normally wants their setting to be good and interesting. They want to see it's history, characters, factions, political situation, culture, religion and concepts developed, sensible, believable and cool. They want interesting storytelling. Except for Pokemon fans. They want it shit. Mystery Dungeon, Electric Tale of Pikachu, Black and White and Pokespe made Pokemon interesting and fanbase only screams:
>No! It's too much! Make it shit again! Make it simplistic! Pokemon should never be good and interesting!
No wonder why Sword and Shield and Scarlett and Violet were so successful. Even a basic, simple plot for a villain like N's Backstory, Ghetsis, Guzma and N's exploration into the morality of Pokemon filters the frick out of Pokegays. Any worldbuilding, good storytelling, or anything remotely complex seems to cause literal, physical pain in them. It's unbelievable really.
The amount of times I've pointed out how the main series would benefit from interesting characterization and plotlines set forth by Pokespe and was met with some autist screeching at me is baffling. I wish they did more outlandish stuff with the characters, especially the MC/Rival. The games take place in a world with magical animals, yet the plotlines and chaacters fricking suck. SV tried something different with the AI professor, but it was awful because the game and it's characters are so fricking hideous.
I think it's just because Pokespe is still only mediocre at best
That's cool but how is that related to a moronic civil war scenario that completely misses the point of the relationship between humans and Pokemon?
Keep in mind that the dumbass that said that also thought that dinosaurs would shit all over Pokemon in a fight.
>That's cool but how is that related to a moronic civil war scenario that completely misses the point of the relationship between humans and Pokemon?
Pokemon are slaves that are controlled by Pokeballs and lose their bodily autonomy to their trainers. No amount of mental gymnastics will change that.
They're not slaves though. they're free even to leave their pokéballs and even disregard them completely.
Seems ol' shudo was going senile early, he specifically wrote Pikachu out of its pokéball, because mascot, showed pikachu growing to care and work alongside ash then decide pokéballs r evul and enslave pogeymans.
Oh yeah, and Charizard not battling for A|sh as it didn't respect it and only started pulling its weight when Ash finally gained his respect. but pokéballs enslave pokémon and force them to go into nasty battles and fight against their wills, yeah. You even watch this shit?
>"N-no, you see, it's not slavery b-because uhh... they fight back! It's not like it's implicit that they have to follow you regardless, because you trapped them in the ball to begin with or anything!"
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
yeah i'm sure gyarados would obey the commands of a trainer who catches it without a second thought minutes after mindlessly rampaging through a city, potentially killing thousands
counterpoint: masterball
>only one thrown in anger in the entire series gets swallowed by the granddaddy catfish of the lake
Shitty counterpoint when game mechanics are precisely that and series lore is unified throughout the franchise.
Sorry you didn't get le ebin personamon but you were supposed to frick off when you got old enough for persona instead of sticking with the clone of a spin-off of persona.
The anime that he worked on directly contradicted that, showing Pokemon actively refusing their trainers and even smacking away attempts to return them to their ball. Disobedience is even a mechanic in the mainline games, anon. The only reason Pokemon can't up and leave your party is because the game is designed for literal babies and that would alienate little Timmy.
You can wank off to this idea of "le evil humans enslaving le poor powerless Pokemon", but that simply isn't how any of the canon material portrays the relationship and it comes across as shallow a parody of it as something like Mario getting high on shrooms. It's pure fan fiction that you're inserting in a superficial attempt to make the series seem deeper, but the idea itself is laughably cliche and childish.
>The only reason Pokemon can't up and leave your party is because the game is designed for literal babies and that would alienate little Timmy.
Headcanon bullshit presented as some sort of fact. Why are diehard pokegays so dishonest?
>lose their bodily autonomy
You realize they can disobey and even break the Poké Ball, right?
I think BRO WHAT IF POKEMON WERE ACTUALLY SLAVES AND REVOLUTIONIZED is just such a low hanging fruit and would really only appeal to you, ironically, if you were a little kid, so I guess it's not a bad idea for the Pokemon anime. If you instantly think EDGE = GOOD WRITING go watch some more FNAF lore videos or whatever bullshit flavor of the week mascot horror made for 4 year olds.
>It's really interesting how hellbent are Pokemon fans are on keeping Pokemon shit.
I think the idea that Pokemon's writing sucks and can be better, and boring edgy ideas should be throw out the window, are two ideas that can co-exist at the same time. Good writing can make or break a game, great writing can make a game near immortal, Pokemon doesn't do either of those things because it's the vidya equivalent of marvel movies and its fans almost seem to actively want it to get worse, but that doesn't mean anyone who thinks the idea of a Pokemon revolution is shit doesn't want the series to improve.
Pokemon having an uprising is something that is substantiated by everything in the source material. Its literally a universe where you capture sentient creatures with human level intelligence and force them to fight for your amusement. So how is it "edgy"?
You and people like you don't give a shit about fricking anything, not even an argument to the contrary. Get fricked you worthless limp homosexual.
>with human level intelligence
Tajirigays homing in your location as we speak
>Its literally a universe where you capture sentient creatures with human level intelligence and force them to fight for your amusement.
No it isn't.
It's a universe where only the bad guys do that. also ost pokemon are not human level IQ. This is nonsense.
It's edgy because the impetus for the uprising starts with the desire for le dark subversion rather than as a logical extrapolation of the themes of the series or exploration of the universe or it's set up and concepts.
>No it isn't.
>It's a universe where only the bad guys do that. also ost pokemon are not human level IQ. This is nonsense.
That's what being a Pokemon Master is. It's all about making your favorite creatures fight in the most entertaining ways so you can earn gym badges... for what exactly? Oh yeah, making creatures fight for your amusement. There's no actual moral or ethical reason for doing so. It's not like you're defending a country from an invading attacker or using them for self defense.
>I have no more arguments.
>its for your own amusement rather than as a test of growth and bonding through the spirit of hard work and competition
Okay, edgy-kun
>n-no argument!
You literally made all that shit up.
>>its for your own amusement rather than as a test of growth and bonding through the spirit of hard work and competition
Apparently forcing them to have battles and getting rid of their bodily autonomy by carrying them around in cages I mean *ahem* pokeballs, is the only way of accomplishing this, apparently.
>You literally made all that shit up.
What have I said here that's contradicted official pokemon lore?
>forcing
You keep relying on these loaded words to pretend your meme position has merit when it doesn't.
>What have I said here that's contradicted official pokemon lore?
Everything.
Then enlightmen me. What am I wrong about?
I already did enlighten you. Go over your homework.
>Okay edgelord-kun
Wow you really showed me.
>Gave up after 1 line.
>forgot the first 15 plus-ish words before the last 1 in the sentence.
Keep going til you get it.
>ignoring that I already refuted the other 15 words with
Apparently forcing them to have battles and getting rid of their bodily autonomy by carrying them around in cages I mean *ahem* pokeballs, is the only way of accomplishing this, apparently.
>You literally made all that shit up.
What have I said here that's contradicted official pokemon lore?
Can you be assed to try?
It was already adressed in the reply, doofus.
Next you'll say Babies in Rigrats arecas smart as adults.
It's an abtraction, dummy.
When did the babies start building functioning societies and having coherent conversations with adults? Remember, the main character is actually human, so your "abstraction" argument has no weight.
>When did the babies start building functioning societies and having coherent conversations
Episode 1
>with adults
This doesn't happen in PMD.
It's all abstractions
>This doesn't happen in PMD.
Wrong. Multiple characters are humans in Pokemon bodies, and there are offscreen humans too.
None of this supports anyof the assertions you made about them having coherent conversations with adults. It's you making shit up.
>Remember, the main character is actually human, so your "abstraction" argument has no weight.
I dunno how or why you think this is a counter argument when they get turned into a pokemon. Unless you think the human lived among and spoke english with humans, which if you actually plsyed the game you would know is false.
It's you who hasn't played the games. Grovyle's partner was a human.
>also ost pokemon are not human level IQ. This is nonsense.
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon proved that Pokemon are just as smart as humans, as there was nothing in that series stating they were abnormally intelligent. So if GameFreak didn't want anyone to see Pokemon as sapient creatures, they should have made better choices about what kind of games they allow to be made.
>You and people like you don't give a shit about fricking anything, not even an argument to the contrary. Get fricked you worthless limp homosexual.
Malding
>Mystery Dungeon, Electric Tale of Pikachu, Black and White and Pokespe made Pokemon interesting
Read a book.
Pokemon Consoomers (like people in this thread) are genuinely incapable of understanding theoretical scenarios
You ask a pokemon fan
>How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast yesterday?
And they would respond, "but I did eat breakfast yesterday."
>Any worldbuilding, good storytelling, or anything remotely complex seems to cause literal, physical pain in them.
Of course they do, it's like how Sonic fans are literal autists, but at least they DO fall back one camp that does want it, and the other that doesn't pokecucks have neither.
>Mystery Dungeon, Electric Tale of Pikachu, Black and White and Pokespe made Pokemon interesting
You certainly have extremely low exposure to any sort of literature
It's really telling that those are all the examples you used when it was the early generations of Pokemon that flourished with environmental storytelling and mystique. You're too smoothbrained to enjoy something without the media telling you how to feel.
You make me sick as a PMDfan.
BW was bad not because of the themes it explores. It is bad because it did it like ass.
>Black and White
>made pokemon interesting
Ha. Had me going for a second there. Here's your (you)
>HUURR DERP DERP BLACK AND WHITE BAD FOR NO REASON BECAUSE I SAY SO!
It's funny. For all the shit that Pokemon Black and White gets because of Pokemon's braindead moronic fans, nobody, NOBODY has ever actually been able to come up with a legitimate argument as to why this game is bad. No actual reasoning, logical thought process that leads them to that conclusion, etc. The fans only think it's bad because they're braindead morons and can't handle any exploration of morality.
>As per official franchise canon, Pokemon are intelligent creatures and are curious about humans, which is why many of them live together. So when Black/White wants to further explore the relationship between humans and Pokemon in its plot, it constantly trips over these rules to make the narrative work somehow.
>Most of the human characters of Unova are written to be complete idiots who have no insight into what Pokemon are thinking.
Do you think that intelligence means "You automatically know what the creatures are thinking and feeling"? If an alien race capable of human level intelligence arrived on earth would you be able to know what they're thinking and feeling? I love how you have to come up with the FURTHEST possible stretch to say that the story is poorly written.
>because this is a kid-friendly franchise and clearly kids can't be trusted with anything more engaging.
>Proceeds to actually argue that Pokemon is shit and should remain shit for absolutely no reason at all.
>Do you think that intelligence means "You automatically know what the creatures are thinking and feeling"? If an alien race capable of human level intelligence arrived on earth would you be able to know what they're thinking and feeling? I love how you have to come up with the FURTHEST possible stretch to say that the story is poorly written.
Emotional intelligence, yes. The fact that within the narrative Team Plasma's propaganda speeches for separating Pokemon from humans are given any consideration by those hearing them hints at the inhabitants of Unova being cartoonishly oblivious, and also possibly genuinely uncaring if they haven't ever before considered the feelings of their Pokemon.
>Proceeds to actually argue that Pokemon is shit and should remain shit for absolutely no reason at all.
It's not an argument for it, it's a statement of how things currently stand. The suits at the rightsholder corporations that manage brand image are making sure that Pokemon stays shit.
>Emotional intelligence, yes. The fact that within the narrative Team Plasma's propaganda speeches for separating Pokemon from humans are given any consideration by those hearing them hints at the inhabitants of Unova being cartoonishly oblivious, and also possibly genuinely uncaring if they haven't ever before considered the feelings of their Pokemon.
So now we've swerved from just general intelligence to emotional intelligence, ignoring that we were talking about the intelligence of the pokemon and not the populace in charge of them? I can really see how well thought out and concise your points are now and how unwilling you are to even try in an argument. You have zero nuanced views on this game and you couldn't possibly imagine someone getting influenced by propaganda other than being cartoonishly oblivious. I don't even understand how your argument could logically follow.
>He's still arguing that pokemon should be shit for absolutely no reason.
>hints at the inhabitants of Unova being cartoonishly oblivious
No, it just a not to Americucks being self-hating morons that are susceptible to appealing to political correctness, logic be damned.
>not
*nod
Black/White runs headlong into the problem that precisely because writers like Shudo wanted to do weird shit before, the Pokemon world's ground rules had to be set in stone relatively early (
). As per official franchise canon, Pokemon are intelligent creatures and are curious about humans, which is why many of them live together. So when Black/White wants to further explore the relationship between humans and Pokemon in its plot, it constantly trips over these rules to make the narrative work somehow. Most of the human characters of Unova are written to be complete idiots who have no insight into what Pokemon are thinking, just so Team Plasma's arguments can have a leg to stand on in the minds of the general populace. N was raised alongside Pokemon that were abused by humans, but we can't be shown any of that or any other proper examples of Pokemon abuse (outside Team Plasma kicking some Munna, naturally), because this is a kid-friendly franchise and clearly kids can't be trusted with anything more engaging. The most Black/White and B2/W2 manage to say about the subject in the end is "maybe capturing Pokemon in balls is not the ideal method of starting a friendship".
tl;dr refer to this anon's post
Shudo was a cringelord. No one understood what that old alcoholic was writing.
Even ashnime writer was able to understand that pokemon franchise at its core is a fantasy animal abuse.
Nobody wants a logical realistic conclusion , they just want something fun, interesting and satisfying.
So are Pokemon slaves or are they highly intelligent creatures with free will?
They're housepets with above average intelligence. They also like to be captured and forced to fight each other because they just do okay.
Dog Fighting is bad for two reasons
>Animals aren't capable of consenting
>It poses serious risk to the animals well being
Pokemon, as established, are capable of leaving their trainer should they wish. Further, Pokemon battles are sactioned and outside of le edgy manga actual injury during Pokemon battles is practically unheard of.
Considering as well that a Pokemon's happiness rises by winning battles, it is safe to say that Pokemon do not dislike competitive combat with one another.
Pokemon battles are only wholesome because the marketing department forces it to be that way. This is what Pokemon battles would be like if it was up to Tajiri: https://youtu.be/adFPJOLB-fc?si=ToWAmeK3OUAsDaFi
This is not even close to real life animal fights. Not him.
>Anime
Good thing the anime is not indicitive of the actual Pokemon universe and the Anime Writer doesn't own the IP.
That'd be like Toei Anime Filler Writers for Dragon Ball Z deciding the canon. Can you imagine? The people who had Yamcha as one of the strongest fighters in the Buu saga and way stronger than Perfect Cell, Dabura and Pre-Mystic Gohan?
For me Pokemon is a dungeon crawler about observing and bonding with nature and Pokemon... It should be an interactive nature documentary with lots of cool battling
What would be Pikachu's tax policy?
Westeners are in large incapable of seeing things for both children and adults. They see pokemon as "for kids" and refuse to believe in anything dark about the franchise despite cemeteries for deceased pokemon existing in several games.
The Last Airbender thoroughly BTFOs anything Pokemon
> "logical conclusion"
>underage board is obsessed with making children's franchise le coool and le matuuure
like pottery
It's not like gen one doesn't have those undertones
You do realize that C.S. Lewis and Tolkien disliked how kiddie and safe Disney was, correct?
>You do realize that [FANFIC]
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/tolkien-cs-lewis-disney-snow-white-narnia-hobbit-dwarves
Everything I just said here was the truth. Tolkien and Lewis both absolutely hated the works of Walt Disney for how childish and kiddie they were.
>Tolkien refers to Disney’s works as “vulgar.” Tolkien also believed that fairy tales had become hopelessly infantilized, noting in his 1947 essay On Fairy-Stories that “the association of children and fairy-stories is an accident of our domestic history."
>Tolkien’s contempt was borne from his belief that fairy tales were not just stories for kids but complex narratives worthy of study. Tolkien treated his own fantasy stories with earnest reverence and respect. He may have written The Hobbit as a children’s fantasy book, but he took painstaking care not to make it childish.
In contrast, what Pokemon offers is especially condescending, cynical and infantilziing. Lewis would have rightfully shit all over Pokémon.
>Tolkien and Lewis both absolutely hated the works of Walt Disney for how childish and kiddie they were.
I've actuallly read the article and it seems their contempt comes from their obsession with Norse mythology and the way Snow White depicted the dwarves, not necessarily from the story being childish or not (it isn't). I also like how you had to quote Tolkien because the article barely mentions Lewis in passing and in 80% of the quote they took of him he's actively praising the movie
>I've actuallly read the article and it seems their contempt comes from their obsession with Norse mythology and the way Snow White depicted the dwarves, not necessarily from the story being childish or not (it isn't).
Tolkien's contempt was absolutely from how childish it was. And yes, it is absolutely a childish movie. He even regretted later in a letter that he wrote the Hobbit with a less serious tone than the last books that he made. Tolkien was very influenced by fairy tales and revered the writings of the Brothers Grimm, famous for adapting fairy stories in a dark way better suited for adults than children. Considering that Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, like many of Disney’s animated movies, was based on such a fairy story, Tolkien would have viewed it as being stripped of all depth and seriousness, and infantilized.
As for C.S. Lewis, he would have viewed it the same way. Infantilizing tripe that only serves to dull children's minds into complacency and serve a corporate IP. It doesn't challenge them at all. When Lewis talks about fairy tales, he is speaking of them through a critical lens -- medieval romance, such as Sir Gawain, might be an example he'd use of 'childish things,' or, perhaps sections of popular poetry; traditional Christian or Grimm or Parrault stories that capture and prod ceaselessly at the imagination. These narratives, like any good work of fiction, begged analysis, and were part of storied academic tradition. They were also unequivocally children's tales. Lewis was not thinking of gross pulp so utterly devoid of artistic merit that it creates mass audiences of the unaware. Name one thing culturally provocative or valuable perpetuated by Pokemon. You can't. It is media not only designed to be enjoyed by children, but designed to dis-provoke engagement. Lewis would have spit on it.
>I also like how you had to quote Tolkien because the article barely mentions Lewis in passing and in 80% of the quote they took of him he's actively praising the movie
Read the rest of the quote then, moron.
>“Dwarfs ought to be ugly of course, but not in that way. And the dwarfs’ jazz party was pretty bad. I suppose it never occurred to the poor boob that you could give them any other kind of music.”
Lewis also condemned the dwarfs' "bloated, drunken, low comedy faces," and criticised the design of the Evil Queen as being "unoriginal."
>brings up and laser-focuses on Tolkien out of nowhere for no reason
meds
That image doesn't match what you're saying
That's because it truncates the full quote attributed to Lewis.
Bait.
You can have both things in Pokemon. I like the exploration and zoology aspects of Pokemon and battling. But I also like the narratives of the trainers and having villain teams like Rocket.
>first season of the anime repeatedly focuses on Ash respecting Pikachu’s decisions and earning his respect, with the two mutually accepting one another
>”lol DUDE what if Pikachu uhh… decided to fight Ash because uhh… le epic finale 180 subversive twist!”
Shudo was a pill popping hack who didn’t understand the actual themes of what he was writing. This plotline would only work with a pokemon that was actually abused by humans, hence why they scrapped the Pikachu shock value betrayal shlock. Masuda at understood this, hence why he made being exposed to abused Pokemon the impetus of N’s motivation in BW.
>pretending Shudo wasn't literally on drugs.
A lot of creative types are, probably half of the world's media is a product of drug use
Weed sure, not straight up fricking hard drugs like he was.
Sonic is unkillable and is still going. Also Shadow's game was kino and only works because it focuses on Shadow.
>not straight up fricking hard drugs like he was.
There are so many musicians who did
Out of depression, and end up killing themselves.
Sure but they still did their careers on them
Their careers went to shit in correlation with em doing em. Don't attribute their quality or success with the drugs.
Shudo was a drug addict who needed editors to tard wrangle him in order to write anything good.
I'm gonna be totally honest, the more I hear about Shudo's shit ideas, the more I get the feeling that the franchise would crashed and burned Sonic-style.
I'd actually rather that happen than what we've got now. I long for a Sonic '06 tier failure or a string of them just so this zombified husk of a series can finally be put down.
It's not substantiated by the games. Even in Gen 5 it was humans being white liberal americuck baisuo bellyaching about muh animal wrights while using it as an excuse for a power grab, rather than the pokemon themselves having any issue with their relationship with humans.
Yeah I'm sure many slaves liked their masters too.
Circular reasoning, dimwit. From the beginning, even in the ashnime, we are told many wild pokemon are JEALOUS of Pokemon with Trainers because they get access to benefits wild Pokemon do not.
I'm sure slaves had many benefits that people in their native countries didn't too.
And guess what: they still don't want to go back to Africa to this day. They know an American living standard at least BTFOs being a bone-nose living in a mud hut before its eventual cannibalization.
The people born today aren't slaves, you moronic trailer chimp.
I forgot, which generation canonized the note that Pokemon only get captured by a Poke Ball if they want to/if you prove yourself
Why are people getting so vehemently arguing about Pokemon lore? The franchise is so disjointed and disorganised it's all been made up as it went on, from day one
So was Dragon Ball and it's based. Tired of this shit argument. Every fandom has it's small group of self absorbed shitlord that thinks it' uniquely applies to whatever fandom they are in and that it even matters. Most of the best media ever made was made up as they went along.
>Most of the best media ever made was made up as they went along.
Such as
Throw a stick at a shelf and it was probably made as it went along.
What
Shelf of media.*
Happy?
>[shit (You) made up]
why do I get the feeling that there's some massive Ganker overlap in this thread
We should all choose now between Pokemon being slaves to trainers through Pokeballs or if they willingly stay out of respect for those who defeat them
Let's actually put this shit to the test, can anyone here link me any piece of fan media (a written fanfic, a comic, hell even a Youtube series, whatever format you feel like) that actually runs with Shudo's scrapped ideas that you also think is actually good? Cause if you believe in the potential of his concepts this badly, there must be SOMEONE that you feel actually did it justice, right?
Otherwise, I feel justified in calling you gaywads gutless contrarians that don't actually believe what you're saying.
Now kiss
Why can't we have both
>Pokemon Anime with Takeshi Shudo
>actually feels like a living breathing world because it goes out of its way to explore it, even inventing brand new towns and gyms to make it feel bigger. There was soul behind each and every adaptional decision
>Pokemon Anime without Takeshi Shudo
>corporate garbage that feels like it's just trying to emulate the games instead of trying to do anything different or interesting, making it feel like a tiny and cramped world. There is not a single ounce of soul to be found anywhere in the nu-anime
I mean, I guess there's a reason why official franchise canon is very clear nowadays about monsters sticking around humans because that's what the monsters want, if even the person who ought to have had the best understanding of the Pokemon world outside of Game Freak can come up with shit like this and say "hey, it's just logical, you know?".
The pokemon movie tries to use a logic that goes against the one of the anime. You can say it's realistic as much as you want, but the anime isn't trying to make the fictional creatures and world of the games be realistic like our world. To try and follow what would be "logical" in our world would be like Daffy Duck getting shot by Elmer Fudd and having his head blown to bloody chunks during their duck season routine.
The pokemon stay with their trainers because they want, if they didn't, many of them could kill their trainer or destroy their pokeball before there was a chance to put them back in, but we don't see that happening. We can conclude it's choice, it may not make sense to you, but in the world of pokemon it's logical, just the same as how Ash can leap 20 feet or how humans are electrocuted by Pikachu's 100,000 volts rays and be fine.
The argument becomes more pointless as the series advances, with characters like Yamask who willingly went with James or Ash's Oshawott that keeps leaving his pokeball by himself as a running gag.
Shudo was one of the few people who tried to make pokémon worldbuilding interesting, instead of the overly sanitized, boring ass utopias we have from the games and anime.
Kanto is hardly a utopia
Exactly, Gen 1 had interesting underlines like urban issues, explicit cruelty towards pokémon and a gang of actual criminals for an evil team. Then it became moronic ecoterrorists and schizos making up solutions for problems that don't exist. and now evil teams are fricking whatever. GF might as well drop them.
>Shudo was one of the few people who tried to make pokémon worldbuilding interesting
This. Which is why early Ash was actually entertaining and Team Rocket have always been the best written characters with actually good backstories
I'm glad Shudo was there but I'm also glad someone else was there to shoot down his more elaborate ideas
You're not allowed to have reasonable takes on /vp/, you're supposed to stick to one extreme and yell "troony" at the other side!
Surely it would be much more interesting if some Pokemon liked battling and humans and some didn't? It would make them all unique, even within their own species, no two Pokemon would be alike
Gamefreak has been trying to curb and cull the concept of individuality within Pokemon, especially as they force them to have jobs. They're not allowed to have their own personalities anymore, now they're just "Soccer", "Clown", "Dancer", "Singer", or whatever one-note personality Gamefreak wants all members of the species to have.
I understand the POV but making pokémon have personalities only works this way in Gamefreak's design. They're either jobmons with one set personality or ambiguous monsters and animals. How do you explore those monsters having a personality, let alone multiple? They're just animals who growl and grunt and used as pets in the games.
It would take a lot of reaching, but you could certainly write interesting stories for Pokemon. My favorite Pokemon is magikarp because I like the idea that if you spend time and effort raising something useless like a magikarp, you can eventually evolve it into a gyarados. That could be an interesting avenue for a magikarp and its trainer.
I like turtle pokemon and early route birds.
That's the thing. Gamefreak don't want them to have unique personalities, and they don't want a scenario where a kid imagines his Cinderace being anything but an one-dimensional soccer player. That's what they've been trying to get rid of.
GameFreak hates the Pokemon and wants to sideline them as much as possible so they can focus on the human characters. They only see them as shallow marketability devices.
> logical
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Ever consider the idea was reworked to be Mewtwo's motivation? Or was that after the fact?