>Stabbing the wall and resting
Other than weapon durability, climbing/stamina seems to be the biggest beef people have with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild — and according to several members of the dev team, regaining stamina while climbing almost made it in until Miyamoto canned the concept.
>Speaking to GameSpot, art director Satoru Takizawa explained the mechanic: “Until about halfway through the development, we had a spec where you could take your weapon and stab it into a wall. When your stamina gauge was dwindling you could stab the weapon and kind of hang out and rest there.” It sounds pretty rad, but it just wasn’t meant to be.
>Director Hidemaro Fujibayashi notes why it was missing: “So the answer is that Mr. Miyamoto heard of the concept he said, ‘You can’t stand on the tip of a sword. This is strange.’ And then we explained, ‘No no no, you stab it in.’ Then he’s like, ‘No, it’s not going to work.’ Another idea is that it’s very hard to actually stab a sword into a big piece of rock. We considered that you can stab them into cracks or crevices in the wall, but then you can’t freely use that feature anywhere you want, so I decided not to implement it…so starting from the early stages of development we had been constantly showing Mr. Miyamoto our progress. At times we would even show him once a week what we’d been working on, because if we don’t do that, and then go face-to-face and present the idea, tables might be flipped!”
>Miyamoto’s meddling is known in all corners of the world, with mixed results. Star Fox Zero allegedly suffered from it, but given how universally celebrated Breath of the Wild is, the wisdom that he imparted probably ended up bettering the game as a whole.
In this case, I agree with miyamoto - stabbing a sword to regain your stamina sounds fricking stupid. It makes far more sense to design the game's world with resting spots in mind (which they pretty much did)
It makes much more sense design wise to have you pause your game and have Link eat 20 meat skewers.
I never once had to do this whilst climbing
You wouldn't have had to use the other mechanic then either so it makes no difference.
The point is the sword-stab mechanic was made redundant by changes to the terrain itself. If there's a design problem (in this case, the issue of losing too much stamina to climb a steep surface), it's better design to use fewer elements and features rather than slap on a new feature. Not saying BotW does this perfectly by any means, but nixing the sword-stab climbing is in favor of good design.
It's not redundant, it would give you more freedom to explore walls instead of going in straight lines.
You can design traversal without it in mind and let players do whatever they want.
It'd be literally broken
>jump
>stab wall
>recover stamina
>jump
>stab wall
>recover stamina
You could just do that forever, they'd have to design around this problem when they could just...not implement this mechanic to begin with. I can see exactly why miyamoto would scoff at this.
You can just eat food to do the same thing though.
Food has to be earned and cooked ahead of time, and even then stamina effect is amongst the rares/hardest to farm in the game which can't be a coincidence.
Stamina shrooms are everywhere and you can buy them cheap. It's only tedious cooking up 3000 of them so you can play the game.
endure shrooms are rare as frick though
>cooking up 3000 of them so you can play the game.
How do people get unironically filtered by a stamina meter?
There's resting spots on almost every cliff in the game.
Why are you changing the subject? The point is that you can recover your stamina anyway so there was no point removing a feature that was already implemented.
>removing a feature that was already implemented.
It is extremely unlikely that this was a finished, tested, ready-to-ship feature. It would've been a prototype that got scrapped early in development. It even says right there in the article that Miyamoto was frequently checking development status as frequently as each week. As I said before, it would've been dropped as it didn't need to exist as the problem is already solved by other means in the game.
It says it was there up until halfway through development.
Ah fair, still not a finished feature.
They probably finished it early and Miyamoto came stumbling in after working on Starfox Zero and decided to frick up the whole project.
>remove redundant feature
Oh no, project ruined
>stamina effect is amongst the rares/hardest to farm in the game which can't be a coincidence
No it isn't. Grasshoppers for stamina are easy to find.
Sure, if you spend hours cutting grass
Restless Crickets aren't exactly rare.
Just playing the game normally and mashing a anytime you run acroos a pickup leaves you with more than enough stamina foods to climb up any wall you need by the time you clear 1 area
>mashing a anytime you run acroos a pickup
is this how the average zoomer actually plays video games?
Are they all min-maxxing homosexuals like this?
what? what are you talking about? you dont pick up items that are in front of you? what do you not pull your pants down when you take a shit either?
I pick up what I need when I need it, I'm not some hoarding moron
the game provides no carry limit, yet youre the nitwit stopping when you see a mushroom to decide if the 30 mushrooms you have already are enough to last you instead of just hitting A and not thinking about it? focusing so much on organization thats not pertinent to gameplay... thats pretty autistic.
>no carry limit
That's not actually true, it's just fairly generous.
I don't grab everything I see because it wastes my own time unless I know I will need it soon.
There's effectively no carry limit unless you're playing like a hundred hours.
Tapping a when you run across an item without thought takes less time than having to go out and collect something you ran out of. Keep in mind we're talking about mushrooms here, which you can hardly avoid tripping over just casually playing the game, not meat or ores which require the effort
The carry limit for cooked food/elixirs (they're shared) is actually pretty strict, so why in the hell would you carry a million mushrooms if you can't turn them into hundreds of stamina elixirs? It does not make sense, anon.
I agree you shouldn’t be able to do that either, but one is clearly a much more immediate solution to the problem. Plus food is a resource that’s being consumed, and food that restores stamina is more limited.
I agree, we should ignore magic and erase the ability to drink stamina potions too. Since drinking is like eating.
They did ignore magic
https://www.destructoid.com/you-could-originally-regain-stamina-while-climbing-in-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-but-miyamoto-nixed-it/
moron
once again Miyamoto proves he knows far more about game design than the morons on reddit and Ganker
The worst thing about BoTW is the parts where it doesn’t commit to more restrictions.
The fact the glider lets you just go over so much of the game too easily.
Miyamoto was a completely right
this, once you get revali's gale the rest of the game basically falls over
In fairness, the bird town is located on the point of the map furthest from where you start. It's clearly meant to be the final or second-to-final main location, so by the time you get there, you've already completed most of the map. If you ignored everything else and made a bee-line for the bird village, then I guess you deserve to get Revali's Gale early.
youre right
100% agree
Thinking about it, a challenge run where you never upgrade stam or eat stamina food might be fun.
>get half way up a cliff
>it starts raining
>have to put the controller down and go do something else for 15 minutes
no, it is a glaring flaw
That’s a completely different problem, and one that I actually agree with: That the rain penalty is too harsh without any real way to work around it. You’re practically forced to just wait or make a campfire, it’s a shame.
But letting you rest basically anywhere on a cliff would mean they’d have to design around you being able to do that.
>He actually manually stood there and waited for the rain to go away on its own
>Not finding an outcrop or tree to start a fire under and rest there to wait out the rain
>Not looking around for an alternate route that doesn't require as much climbing or has more frequent rest spots
Literally playing it wrong.
this was some of the best moments in the game though.
having to think logically about your traversal. Fighting unexpected conditions and having to view the environment in an alternative way.
I got put into some weird situations, it felt like an actual adventure. Really immersive too.
It could have been better designed though, and maybe less harsh.
this
I agree that link shouldn't be able to stab the wall and rest.
But I don't agree with the moronic reason Miyamoto gave.
>NoOoOooO we can't stab swords into a rock!!
>But let's put a tablet into this world where you don't see other similar modern day technology
>Oh, did I mentioned that you can stop time with the tablet? so realistic, am I right or what?
>no, you do not look at a rock and timestop it woth chains
>storing kinetic energy in a time-stopped object is ridiculous
>that doesn't make any sense
t. miyamoyo
The stamina is perfectly fine in BotW, and the fact that the game filters absolute mouth-breather casuals is only a good thing.
The game is extremely casual like all nintendo games.
not sure what you're talking about, I spent 40 hours exploring and reached the final boss because I had nothing else to do and absolutely melted the final boss.
>5 years later
>people still filtered and complaining about the stamina meter
Would the game be somehow better if you can scale a entire mountain out of the gate?
What difference does it make? The game gives you practically all the tools of the game in the first hour. The only thing you upgrade after that is more health/stamina, armors, and weapons that boil down to 'number go up take less damage do more damage'.
He should've flipped the table on whoever thought it was a good idea to implement a weapon durability system.
He probably played Minecraft for the first time a week into development and forced it in himself.
Weapon durability is genius and anybody who hates it likely suffers from a mental illness caused by childhood abuse and should see a therapist.
Nah you're a homosexual contrarian. No one but autists likes it.
>No one but autists likes it.
97
With the durability being one of if not the most regularly repeated criticism throughout those highly rated reviews. People are willing to look past a shit mechanic sometimes if the rest of the game is good.
That's a 97% positive rating, which doesn't necessarily reflect the score themselves beyond being over 70% or so. I do understand the game is acclaimed, but durability is almost specifically referred to as the weakest aspect of the game.
it's just a lazy band aid solution to the fact that they didn't develop enough unique content to allow permanently unlocked upgrades which didn't strictly obsolete every other option, since you can count the number of unique weapon movesets on one hand. same as the npcs asking you to make specific recipes, because those recipes are strictly cosmetic and if you use the cooking system for gameplay purposes you'll never see them.
Sorry you just don't understand game design. Everything you said is wrong btw.
weapon durability is effectively an ammo system
I like resource management and it's good in a game like this
Not when weapons are like styrofoam and require grinding ones that you like. Just have a logical weapon restoration system like a blacksmith, and boom it's sensible. When a mechanic makes something more tedious than it is in real life, it's implemented poorly.
You're only making it tedious for yourself. Stop getting so attached to your weapons, they're supposed to be expendable. The game also already lets you craft weapons that are better than fricking Royal Weapons and have more durability than them for the low cost of a diamond.
Except that's a stupid mindset to add into a series where you never had to do such a thing. It's dumb, and feels like Minecraft shit. Even having a timer on the master sword was fricking stupid.
>to add into a series where you never had to do such a thing
is this really your issue? they tried doing something different and you don't like it?
When the "different" thing they add is a limitation, absolutely. It's stupid. Add new mechanics that don't make you feel like you're restricted or constantly being cucked. That doesn't deepen the game whatsoever, and the state of the weapon combat is also shit. Fricking slow mo as well? Come on. Talk about chasing shit trends.
I'm open to new concepts in Zelda, like the powers in BOTW2 since they look fun. The first BOTW had some failed experiments.
>grinding ones that you like
just pretend I attached a disgusted face image to this post
grinding in BotW, whyyyyyyyy
>Just have a logical weapon restoration system like a blacksmith, and boom it's sensible.
No, you moron. That's how you actually make the process of acquiring and using weapons into a tedious waste of time. The way it was implemented means you just grab weapons as you go and use them as needed without having to do any chores or micromanagement. Idiot. Read a book about game design before you embarrass yourself again.
You pretentious fricking homosexuals. A book about fricking game design? have a nice day homosexual. This isn't a fricking beat em up. You can justify it on paper, but it has no fricking place in Zelda.
>Idiot
Fricking moron drone defending any shit balancing mechanic Nintendo spews from their anus. No one liked that shit other than diehard contrarians like yourself. Lol there's a reason the game has been completely mogged by any Souls game, where durability and a huge weapon pool are handled correctly.
based. durability is a shit system in BOTW and the game is better off without it
Then why do other, better games not have this criticism? Plenty of large action RPGs give you a large, disposable item-set yet they don';t need garbage mechanics to force you to use shit weapons. I have a feeling you haven't played many videogames.
>Plenty of large action RPGs give you a large, disposable item-set yet they don';t need garbage mechanics to force you to use shit weapons.
Such as?
Oblivion, Skyrim, Dark Souls 1-3, Elden Ring, Xenoblade, any rpg really.
None of those games have a weapon system even remotely like BotW. Seriously, you have to stop embarrassing yourself lol....
You're right. They have good weapon systems instead.
Ardent botw defenders love to pretend durability fixed some pervasive problem with open worlds nobody had ever solved before when no such problem had ever existed and botw just chose to go with a garbage mechanic out of pure laziness.
Hey, if you want to play some western trash RPG like the Elder Scrolls where you carry 50 bronze swords around and press the left mouse button until the enemy dies, go right ahead. Those games are made by autistics for autistics so you would love them. Myself and others who are interested in playing real fricking videogames made the way videogames are supposed to be made will play BotW.
lol
lmao even
Botw discourages combat. It turns the game into a fricking walking simulator.
>Botw discourages combat
Not true at all since monster parts are needed to upgrade armor, sell for money, and create elixirs. Eventually you start to see Silver and Golden monsters which drop ores.
Play some actual RPGs you homosexual.
>game incentivizes trying new things
>doesn’t let you stick with a single weapon for long so you’re trying different ones/being resourceful.
Boo fricking Hoo
And trust me if they had a blacksmith, people would complain about going to the blacksmith to get things fixed anyways. Durability can be annoying but it’s definitely blown out of proportion, I found the slippery climbing a bit more of a pain though, from what I remember. But even that is just a way the game gets you to try other stuff out instead.
>Boo fricking hoo
Well yeah, many other people have criticized it and I can just turn it off. I've already beaten the game in master mode completely vanilla, I'm just outlining an objective flaw with the game. Your patronizing response implies that I'm somehow emotionally affected by it, when I couldn't give less of a frick. Elden Ring, despite all its flaws, was a far more engaging game than BOTW in terms of combat and weapon rosters. The sales also indicate that people prefer that game as well.
And protip, if you've actually played other games in your life, blacksmithing has never been a source of contention or issues in other games. It's been in the Elden Scrolls games, Souls games, etc and no one gives a frick.
Slippery surfaces? Now that's some moronic shit to b***h about. It's a fricking rainstorm moron, of course you can't fricking grab wet rocks. It's basic fricking game design for a survival game focused on climbing. You can just set up a campfire and wait. How fricking idiotic are you.
>Elder Scrolls
Fixed. Point still stands.
>It's so engaging to have to switch between 20 weapons (many of them the same, as they're dropped by the same 10 enemies over and over who have scaled up to your hidden level) on a hard fight!
Do you have any idea what is fun, and what isn't?
It was a shit mechanic that's only liked by you nintendick gargling homosexuals.
Turned the game from an action adventure game into an adventure game. I just stopped fighting shit because combat became a net negative. Turned the game into a fricking walking simulator like Gone Home.
The problem with durability is that enemy camps respawn indefinitely
once you realize fricking with random enemies in the overworld is a zero sum game the durability system holds you back from accepting it as such
you may gain some new weapons, but after a certain point they will be almost always strict downgrades you take in exchange for some brief moments of mindless, pointless combat
How is that even a good mechanic? Just don't have stamina at all, at that point.
The climbing limitations are one of the best parts of traversing BOTW, the game would be borderline unfun without it.
>I think climbing is tedious, so therefore there should be a system where you stand perfectly still, in order to negate any actual challenge
Ganker thinks this is good game design.
They added cooking that does exactly this.
Cooking does not work like that, you don't have to stand perfectly still in order to eat.
You literally pause the game. The entire game stands perfectly still.
It takes a couple seconds, tops, to open a menu and click on a food item. This is all assuming you ever feel the need to do so whilst climbing, as I sure as shit never did.
Ok, so it makes no difference if you can rest on a wall for a couple seconds and recover stamina. Thanks for conceding.
natural stamina recovery takes longer, especially with upgraded stamina
>Other than weapon durability, climbing/stamina seems to be the biggest beef people have with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Yeah right. People who complain about weapon durability haven't played the game, and climbing/stamina is arguably the central mechanic of the entire game.
Personally, I'd allow infinite sprint but have only one stam wheel for climbing and gliding. Gliding was already too OP so it only deserved one wheel. Climbing becomes less tedious later on when you get the hookshot. Simple.
if you're attached to the side of the mountain and not moving it should recharge, but slower than if you were on the ground
Could have been cool if weapon durability was a factor.
Wind Waker is the best zelda game
You better explain yourself.
It's pretty comfy and I like playing it but it's not my favorite.
WW, OoT, BotW and OoS are all my favourites, it’s hard for me to rank them specifically.
When you realize how gimped wind waker is from time restraints it quickly loses its magic. It’s a shame how undercooked it is, missing so much content and padding with the reinforce stuff.
Weapon Durability was an amazing implementation why do people hate it?
>it’s very hard to actually stab a sword into a big piece of rock
Yeah, it would've looked ridiculous, one way or the other.
Either Link really swings his arms back before nailing the sword in, and it's ridiculous that he can remain on the cliff/wall while doing that. OR he gently knocks the sword in, and it's ridiculous that it could be leaned on or hung from.
In a more stylized game, it could've worked. Or if the climbing was entirely climbing steep slopes instead of cliff faces, that also could've worked.
Okay but what if Zelda was a horse
Every time I see someone complaining about rain while climbing I imagine a whining child saying "but I want it RIGHT NOW"
creeps me out when players act like addicts that are angry if they can't get their fix on time
Creeps me out when people project this hard on critics of lame mechanics. I don't mind the restricted climbing either, I just dislike the shit tier weapon movesets and durability/timers bullshit. No other Link had that problem. Awful enemy variety as well.
surprise surprise you can ruin a game for yourself if you treat it as an optimization task
not sure why Breath of the Wild specifically had to be the bitter pill for so many players but I guess it's because it's really popular so a lot of them were learning it for the first time
anybody who says the game should just not have durability are moronic. if you want to remove durability then the game itself would have to be reworked heavily
Obviously that's what people are advocating. If your weapons were in a broken state (instead of exploding) and you could visit a blacksmith, or repair them yourself that would be perfect. Emulating the game and turning weapon degredation off is just a bandaid solution.
I’m actually with Miyamoto. Visually the idea of stabbing your sword in to regain stamina seems cool, but it would have trivialised the climbing and encouraged them to design around it.
It’s much better to design climbing with specific rest and recovery spots, which they did instead, since that allows for an actual gameplay challenge.
makes sense to me. also the fact that you'd get pretty damn tired hanging there would also make no sense as to why it would regen stamina.
That makes no sense. You should actually lose stamina while climbing.
>climb a cliff
>hang off it by your fingers
>regain stamina
yeah sounds like a fundamentally wrong idea
Don't care. Too broken and flawed either way. He should've said something about pausing at literally any time to fully recover while carrying 50 food items instead.
And how slow you climb, how worthless the climbing gear is, how annoying the rain is, how broken revali's gale is, how the glider trivializes any semblance of danger, and how there's literally no challenges or hurdles related to climbing in the form of obstacles or enemies so you pretty much just hold up and wait.
Not to mention how the act of being able to climb nearly anything, along with the glider, destroys level design. It only works because of how empty and skippable everything in botw is. If they actually implemented content they'd have to have far more restrictions.
>how worthless the climbing gear is
Climbing gear is no where near worthless.
Dragons Dogma is far worse in this regard, the stamina/weight system in that game kills my enjoyment as someone who’s playing it for the first time. Didn’t really have any issue with it in BOTW but traversal options are so limited in dragons dogma that I can’t go 10 seconds without running out of stamina or having to go back to town and empty all my shit.
>Gee I'm tired I think I'll just ram this fricking sword into the solid rock for a breather.
If anything Shiggy didn't go far enough. You're basically never in danger when you can just pause the game and heal infinitely. Eating food should have healed you at hot springs speed.
I do wish they gave him special climbing spikes that you had to acquire before he can start. Made no sense how he could climb up walls
Or make climbing a slate ability that you need to beat a boss before you can start climbing up walls. So many things could have been done better and it was still an amazing game. That’s why I know BotW2 will be amazing. Once next Gen zelda comes out BotW will have a lot of cringe mechanics people look back on. As long as Zelda and Soulsborne keep borrowing from each other, both series become phenomenal examples of western style and Japanese style fantasy adventures
>Zelda and Soulsborne
How the frick do people keep comparing these two series? They have virtually nothing in common besides the medieval aesthetic.
Isn't this like how in Galaxy games it was Miyamoto's call to limit the Mario spin to 1 during each jump? love him or hate him he knows the importance of "crippling" a character, why this never got over Aonuma's head in the decades of working at Nintendo is beyond me, the element of risk and reward is almost completely missing in his console Zelda games specially TP, time has proven all the good or interesting of MM was the guy that rightfully got Mario handed over to him.
>We considered that you can stab them into cracks or crevices in the wall, but then you can’t freely use that feature anywhere you want, so I decided not to implement it…
Lame, he should have implemented it. This way it gives extra depth to climbing as you have to be vigilant to scout for possible crevices as you plan your path up a cliff.
Doing that with any real world sword would break the sword or make it not a sword at best. Maybe some +3 Master Sword sure, but come the frick on. It's a stupid idea and it shouldn't have taken Shigeru Fricking Miyamoto to tell them frick no
They could have let that mechanic to be used on trees and make bigger trees for exploration, and have some walls with cracks or tree branches to stick on them. this is one of those silly mechanics i wouldnt mind even if rarely used
Still kind of stupid, if you really think about it. I’m picturing it irl and it would never work. Maybe with an axe, but you wouldn’t be able to get a good swing or put a lot of weight on it
i get where the devs where going with this. but in this case miyamotos autism was justified, this had no business in the game that botw ended up being.
miyamoto is right here
not only is it unrealistic, but it breaks the mechanic and allows ANYTHING to be climbed if you were willing to wait, even if you werent ready
it's better that you had to gauge if you could make the climb before you started like irl, and it prevents you climbing out of the game world