You don't need to be an amazing programmer, anon. Do you know why? Because Undertale exist. Undertale is one of the worst programmed things that I have ever seen. It is horrible. There are rooms that have hundreds of "if" statements in a row checking the same value and then sets the value to zero and then checks again. All of the dialogue in all of Undertale is in a single switch case statement, thousands of cases long for the whole game. But you'd never know that and it doesn't matter because the player doesn't care and the player would never know. That's it.
Go make games.
Why does it matter how its programmed if it works? Its not a high rise building that will collapse in five years.
>Why does it matter how its programmed if it works?
That's what he's saying. There's reasons to obsess over programming quality, but all of them are about ensuring it actually works. Beyond that there's no real point.
Maintainability is a real concern
Also performance. Doing things in stupid ways may work but it produces performance inefficiencies.
Tell that to the people who still give Yanderedev shit for bullshit like that today.
His code works, but they still argue with him over the best way to hammer the nail. Code homosexuals are really prissy catty b***hes.
His code is terribly unoptimized and the game runs like hot garbage.
"unoptimised"
It still runs, so all it looks like to me is your are arguing over the best way to hammer a nail in to a block of wood. No the real reason is that you can't stand him having a win.
>It still runs
I'll tell you that every time you homosexuals complain about cyberpunk or starfield or cities skylines running like shit.
>cyberpunk or starfield or cities skylines running like shit.
>cyberpunk just leaves max lod models everywhere you can't see
>strand hair on characters you can't see
starfield is a bethesda game, and they're simply incapable of doing anything right
>skylines 2
>90k polygon characters with no lods on screen at all times in the tens of thousands
It still runs
keep coping moron, when you are forced to shut down your project or avoid adding content because you need a 4090 to run a game that looks like it could run on a PS2 it means that it doesn't "still runs", it means you have to call it completed, and that people will shit on you for making a garbage game instead of an unoptimized one.
The difference is his game runs like shit. If yandere sim ran well no me would care
Yandere can't run at 60fps on $3k rigs because it's a dumpster fire of a code though
>Its not a high rise building that will collapse in five years
it is a potential timesink you will lament when you realise the foundations you set can't support the game you intended to make
it is by no means reason for you to be deterred though
rather it should be, like most creative endeavors, a learning experience that gets better with every iteration
>it is a potential timesink you will lament when you realise the foundations you set can't support the game you intended to make
homie it's a gamemaker game. Even with the cleanest code in the world, if your scope is beyond a small indie game it will be impossible to maintain just by the sheer limits of the engine and language.
because it might not work as intended. around a year or so after pso2 came out, sega started allowing people to do prepatching for upcoming patches instead of having to wait for the day and the update. a couple of months later when there was a BIG update, it basically nuked peoples hard drives because it was coded poorly.
Gargoyles placed into recesses where their backs will never be seen still have all the details carved in them because while people won't see them, God will.
>Why does it matter how its programmed if it works?
Because half the time, it fricking doesn't.
Well in this case it doesn't work but that's a limitation of Gamemaker's engine.
Also literally everyone in this thread forgot that Undertale had a linux version and would potentially be running on systems that have CaSeSeNsItIvE filenames
in gms osflavor 1 is windows though, plus you wouldnt check for executables on linux
Technically you can name an executable file anything on linux.
Files aren't defined by filename.
I could make something called Ballsack.batman and it'd still be executable.
Well it doesn't and it has bigger frickups when he doesn't learn. Didn't running the uninstallation from Deltarune's random drop delete everything the uninstallation was placed in? It wasn't some yummy delicious meta thing he just fricked up
On larger projects code needs to work and be future proof. It's not uncommon for some code written 2 years ago to cause all kinds of problems and limitations that eventually mean it needs to be entire rewritten.
May as well spend a bit of extra time getting it right the first time instead of doing the bare minimum then having it cause problems for the next 2 years.
Even worse, I've seen shit code that "just works" actually impact how a game was designed. Because this code was trash but technically worked, and because no one wanted to touch it, everyone just worked around it. Systems were changed and features scrapped because they wouldn't work with the shitty code that just worked.
>code needs to work and be future proof
There's no such thing as future-proofing, but there is effective idiot-proofing.
It's always necessary because your future self (and everyone else in the future) is always an idiot.
There's no such thing as future proof, but there is future resistant.
There is absolutely no such thing as idiot proof.
Generally you want your design to be as decoupled as possible with dependencies explicitly separated when you start. That's 90% of the reason why if trees like this are so bad but instead people just want to seethe about switch statements instead.
Non-white hands wrote this post.
you will never be white
I see I struck a nerve.
>I see I struck a nerve.
Only redditors ask for sources.
>t.pol gay
well because the less you care about how it is programmed the more likely it is for abstractions to leak and bugs to happen
from a professional programmer and network engineer
yes I'm 36
anything past "working" is just referred to as refinement.
you want code to be more efficient to lessen the workload on machines while keeping output the same.
depending on the product, it isn't always needed.
ie. undertale
No you're not. lol
alright then I guess I'm not
Hi toby
Hi
>name game underTale.exe
>trick doesn't work
Because it's an inelegant solution to a problem that isn't solved.
>Why does it matter how its programmed if it works?
Because chances are someone else is gonna work on your code, and if the code is shit, it's harder to read, debug, and modify.
>Because chances are someone else is gonna work on your code, and if the code is shit, it's harder to read, debug, and modify.
You call this a problem, I call this being an essential employee.
>t. hobbyist
That's how you get fired in most tech companies as a dev.
One of my best friends is a 100% alcoholic; had seizures at work and everything. He would miss work, fail to show up at meetings, etc. Had to go to rehab in order to prevent his body from remaining in a state of total chaos.
He STILL has his job at HP, and he tells me he's not even that good or a programmer. Seems like if they just like you, it doesn't matter how much you frick up-- they'll keep you on the payroll.
>Seems like if they just like you, it doesn't matter how much you frick up-- they'll keep you on the payroll.
That's completely typical. In 99% of industries without specific productivity metrics the best ways to keep your job are:
1. Be likable and don't start shit
2. Don't miss deadlines without warning
3. Don't get into politics
>t. can't find a job
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I personally am a pharmacy tech. I have shown up ~15 minutes late to work every single day for the past few years, missed work, called in 5 minutes before I have to show up, etc. They warned me about it at first, but now they don't care because training someone who knows the ins-and-outs of that job takes a long time and is a huge investment, even though its a job that requires almost 0 conscious thought or problem solving. Also, like
pointed out, I'm pretty sociable overall and get along with everyone there.
Competence is great, but you can get away with a lot if your presence at work is a relief to your coworkers.
Efficiency, which was useful when devs had to work around technical limits, something that no longer exists.
Just learn regular expressions and do it right you fricking street shitter
Good practices make it easier for the programmer, not the audience.
It's why some rpgmaker looking shit like deltarune takes a decade to come out while carmack could shit out a full game every few months
>the game made by one guy takes longer than the game made by a studio
amazing.
It's bizarre that the 'Undertale was a solo project' myth still exists, you can just look at the credits to dispel it
it was mostly solo. getting help, and having contributors doesn't change that.
How is it a myth? He developed, composed, designed,and published it himself
False
He did the composing and concept himself, everything else was aided or outsourced
Cope
Can you provide one source for your claim? I don't even like Toby but thats quite the claim
no
>Can you provide one source for your claim?
Didn't temmie do sprites? I thought there were a couple people
https://www.mobygames.com/game/74938/undertale/credits/windows/ ?
>he says while crying about how unoptimized modern games are
You literal fricking moron
Say that to the dwarf fortress guys.
Have you experienced how awful modern games run nowadays even on high-end hardware?
It doesn't matter. He made millions of dollars and won fame across the globe. Not sure anyone is going to care about his efficient code.
Kek, this.
Reminds me of how they couldn't have vehicles in fallout so they had an ai wear a hat that's a train and the ai would run the place. If it's stupid but works why not let it
People like you and Toby are why I have to wait 30 seconds for Microsoft Word to open.
>speed
>extensibility
>maintainability
>stability
>actually taking fricking pride in your work
>actually taking fricking pride in your work
I'm pretty sure the guy who first became famous for his music takes more pride in picrel than in some obscure line of code if/else statement he used to run his 2D game that is still fast, maintained, stable and ported to a dozen other platforms anyways.
why do you sound upset?
it's just kinda funny, nothing more
>Why does it matter how its programmed if it works? Its not a high rise building that will collapse in five years.
Because programming is just one giant circlejerk of constantly trying to one-up the next programmer about how much you care about the most tiny and miniscule of details and then using that as a pretext to justify unethical brutal insults and shit-flinging at them. It's basically like TV chefs acting histrionic about their job. This happens in any mostly male space
>Its not a high rise building that will collapse in five years.
Someone's never looked into running old PC games, huh?
>Why does it matter how its programmed if it works?
Because you can only make simple games this way. If you want to make a game that doesn't look like it should be capable of running on a calculator with this approach, you will soon find yourself stuck with an unmaintainable mess that becomes exponentially more complicated as you try to add more to it, at which point your progress has grinder to a halt and you either have to go back and refactor or just give up entirely.
On the one hand, it isn't that big of a deal and you should get the stick out of your ass.
On the other hand, you get Pajeet levels of spaghetti code with uncompressed files.
>Why does it matter how its programmed if it works?
Mainly because if you want to go back and change or extend something later on, a well-written program will make that easier to do. An optimized program will run better, which might not matter if you're making some sort of jap-style garbage like undertale, but if you're making something like Factorio, optimization is basically mandatory. And a well-written program will both make it easier to find and fix bugs when they occur, and make bugs less likely to occur in the first place.
The only thing "AI" (not actually AI) will automate away is looking up code on Stackoverflow to steal.
ESL thread
my own self critical nature unfortunately resigns me to never be able to create anything
That's one good way to tell people you're a lazy duck
that's a nice way of coping with the fact you're a lazy loser (me)
>I'm afraid to fail so I make sure I fail before even starting
Mmmh, I see
>You can't be a creator and a critic at the same time. To create greatness, you must ignore the minutiae. Work in wide strokes. But... inquisitors eat into everything, like vinegar, lingering on every detail. They find a blemish, a flaw, then claw at it until you're finished.
It's bizarre to see other anons be so dismissive, being a nitpicking autist is different issue from lazyness. Especially with all the leetcoding itt, proper development (read: one that actually has a release) is all about knowing what shit to optimize when.
Are you tribe?
not while i'm being stalked
wtf?
>not checking every permutation of [Uu][Nn][Dd][Ee][Rr][Tt][Aa][Ll][Ee].[Ee][Xx][Ee] in a loop
shiggy diggy
What the frick are you doing, there's a better way to use regex
I was just using regex as an example, what you would really do is:
char buf[] = "undertale.exe";
size_t n = strlen(buf);
uint16_t bits = 0;
while (bits < n) {
if (check_file(buf)) {
delete_file(buf);
}
bits++;
for (size_t i = 0u; i < n; i++) {
buf[i] = (bits&i) ? toupper(buf[i]) : tolower(buf[i]);
}
}
I don't think you would do this at all. What do you think 'bits&i' should evaluate to?
Oops, I meant bits&(1<<i)
>You don't have to check anything on Windows!
Oh, I forgot NTFS was case-insensitive
What do you think 'bits&(1<<i)' should evaluate to? I think it will be 1 when bits==2^i and 0 otherwise. So what? You are fricking with this string like crazy but only checking it n times.
I wrote that quickly and didn't test so there are mistakes. I'll just explain the algorithm I was going for.
>undertale.exe is an array of characters which have two states: upper case and lower case (except . but we can ignore it since toupper and tolower return non-alphabet characters verbatim)
>I want to try every permutation of the states, e.g. first try undertale.exe, then undertale.exE, then undertale.eXe, etc.
>every time a character is tested in its two states, it and all characters to the right go back to state 0 and I then toggle the character to the left, and start again from the rightmost character
>this is exactly the same as counting in binary
>so to make it easier I make a bitset where each bit represents the state of the corresponding character in the string, and let the processor handle the "character i has been toggled twice, reset and toggle the character to its left" logic since the processor already knows how to count in binary
There are 2^n possible strings but your code goes as n^2.
We are assuming we dont have a regex engine available, were turning it into a contrived interview problem.
realistically unDertale.exe etc. aren't possibilities
the if statements are fine as is, dev time shouldn't be wasted on moronic shit like this
Though I guess he missed the "UNDERTALE.EXE" case which seems possible, but in any case Windows doesn't care about case at all so this is all pointless. It didn't function due to other reasons.
My all tism demands that I point out that I was wrong in at least two ways here. It evaluates not necessarily to 1, but to "true" (meaning any nonzero value,) in the situations described, but there are more cases besides that where it comes out true. Even as moronic as I am the code is still moronicer though and doesn't accomplish what you want it to.
You don't have to check anything on Windows!
On MacOS, GNU and BSD all you have to do is "find ./ -type f -iname "*.exe" -delete"
>all you have to do is "find ./ -type f -iname "*.exe" -delete"
Oops, now all exes in the directory are deleted because the user was a moron and installed the game into a folder already containing other games
A learning moment.
I'm shocked people bother with this and don't just use the PID of the running game to find the executable.
Modern uninstallers avoid the problem the dropped version of Undertale had by deleting only files that match the hash value of a table of files
Undertale installs on its own directory, no?
The same command can be used but with "undertale.exe" instead of the wildcard and it will work.
>i would write more than toby did to solve the same problem, see i am so much better
Ganker is so moronic I swear
This code is unreadable anon. Don't call us, we'll call you.
no, what you would do is keep a reference to the handle/pid or whatever for the running process and with that you can probably get the name of the binary, kill and delete the game
>no, what you do is help your gf put on her strapon and let her frick you in the ass, and with that you can probably get a reach around and nut in her hand
but now do it in rust
moron just do
for char& in string
char &= ' '
then compare against 'undertale.exe'
Not true. If statements execute sequentially, switch statements jump straight to the specified case (which is also why in every single language that I know of cases can only key off precomputed values).
That not only means that switch statements typically have significantly improved performance over if blocks, but also that the evaluation of a switch case is guaranteed to have no side effects. It also means that changing the order of a switch statement should have no effect on the outcome of a program but changing the order of an if block often will (particularly if you're implicitly checking certain conditions).
Depending on the language and the compiler you might get lucky with the optimiser (i.e. it might implicitly convert your massive if chain comparing the same value to a switch) but you shouldn't rely on it and it will often break if you try to get clever.
>It also depends on the data type being used in the conditionals
I thought even in funky languages like javascript it still does something clever with converting the values to Symbols or something in order to cheat that efficiency.
>for char& in string
>char &= ' '
wtf is that
The binary values for lower case letters and capital letters differ only in whether the 32 bit is set.
That means you can convert between upper and lower case by bit manipulating the characters.
>Depends on language and what the compiler/interpreter feels like at the time. With gcc small switch statements usually produce the same code as if-else chains while larger ones might be compiled to jump tables.
True, you can't know what you're going to get before hand and it only sometimes makes those optimisations.
The fact that you can only perform direct comparisons to primitives and the original expression is only evaluated once (even in the case where it gets split into ifs the original result is computed and cached) again reduces the chance of unknown side effects or the value of an expression changing while you traverse the tree.
>Python
Python doesn't have switch, case bro - it has pattern matching.
C# doesn't work as you describe and can only use constant labels.
I don't know about Haskell but given your previous track record I don't trust you.
>There are languages that have this for the switch (and if/while/for) condition as well.
I wouldn't ever trust this. If I run an if tree with getGlobalVar() there's no way a compiler could ever optimise that away because it can't know the full side effects of getting that expression.
Obviously you could (and should) cache the value of the expression before you run an if tree but the point is you don't have to for a switch.
>You have to remember that there are tens-to-hundreds of factors and which ones are relevant
Of course.
It depends on your language and compiler and they have to be beyond a certain size for the optimisation to actually be valuable.
I work in a large legacy c++ codebase with a couple of 5000+ line if trees where these sorts of considerations actually mattered.
But also don't trust anything you hear on the internet and check the assembly output yourself.
>switch statements jump straight to the specified case
Depends on language and what the compiler/interpreter feels like at the time. With gcc small switch statements usually produce the same code as if-else chains while larger ones might be compiled to jump tables.
>in every single language that I know of cases can only key off precomputed values
Do you mean the token after "case" has to be a literal/constant? That is only true for certain statically compiled languages. C#, Python and Haskell (which is statically compiled) all allow variables to be used in (their equivalent of) case statements.
>evaluation of a switch case is guaranteed to have no side effects
There are languages that have this for the switch (and if/while/for) condition as well.
>Depending on the language and the compiler you might get lucky with the optimiser (i.e. it might implicitly convert your massive if chain comparing the same value to a switch) but you shouldn't rely on it and it will often break if you try to get clever.
I'd be surprised if the reason an optimiser didn't convert if-else chains to switch (when possible) was because it couldn't see the opportunity rather than because the heuristic it uses to decide what to do indicated using compare and branch/conditional instructions was better than making a jump table (or the optimisation wasn't enabled). You could test that by converting the if-else chain to switch yourself and seeing what the compiler spits out with different flags. Though, one of the many factors considered might be preserving programmer intent (when there isn't a clear benefit).
You have to remember that there are tens-to-hundreds of factors and which ones are relevant and how important they are is both situation and architecture dependent. For example, if your CPU has no cache for computed branches, or it has a short history or small number of entries, the compiler may guess that jump tables are inefficient on that architecture.
I'll have to look into that, not doubting you but it's always been my experience that cases are resolved sequentially even in the compiled languages I've used. I'm interested in keeping my knowledge current.
I currently work with a lot of deployment tooling in various scripting languages where order of operations and conditional evaluations are important, so we use if statements primarily
What if I changed the .exe to peepeepoopoo?
The correct solution is to use the OS API to know the name of the current process
Why would anyone change the .exe to peepeepoopoo??? WHY WOULD I EVER DO THIS, PLEASE RESPOND!>?@
In that case you should be rewarded for your behaviour.
>using regex
noob
dont think GM can do regex
Why would you do that? There's a much simpler solution, just do:
>for char1 in ['u', 'U']:
>for char2 in ['n', 'N']:
>for char3 in ['d', 'D']:
>...
>check and delete file named char1 + char2 + char3 + ...
>13-layer nested loop
This woulda been my way of doing it
Figures I dont get any job offers kek
i'll spoonfeed you: https://regex101.com/r/muxL87/1
>not using .lower() for case testing
these clowns
>t. brainlet
You're not testing the case of the string, you're generating the string and asking the OS if it names a file.
Doesn't relate
>There are 2^n possible strings but your code goes as n^2.
I need to do more leetcode
>fails to see the difference
>not knowing Ganker doesn't have code tags
Why would you not just list all the files in the directory then use lower() to find it
I think you just fricking tree recurse in the contrived leetcode situation, I don't think you can do meaningfully better.
moron.
Bait
toby knows ASM, just look at his earthbound hacks. there is a reason he did that in OP pic and its probably related to windows being moronic.
>toby tried to do a nier save delete
intredasting
>Windows being moronic
Windows' filesystem is not case-sensitive. UnDeRTALe.EXE is the exact same file as undertale.exe
This is basic knowledge. Toby just didn't know.
but what he did is valid for unix systems
No, you fricking idiot, the romhacking tools were already in widespread use on starmen by the time he was doing anything there.
.toLowerCase()
based as frick
Toby can't do that because he doesn't know how to read file info, he only has a delete_if_exists system call
moron
No, you're the moron here. That Anon has if right. You only need to find via reference and then delete that way.
That's what I'd do
*googles how to ignore upper case*
you do need to be creative and have a vision though, which is more difficult for most people than just getting good at programming
Andrew hussy’s vision you mean
More than that, you need to have a vision which is focused and achievable for the resources that you have
This is true. As a software architect I don't like to say it, but because of incompetence, lack of experience and the pressure from investors, closed-source applications are terribly messy. If you want to see and learn amazing code just check open source projects, but be advised you're are going to seethe because of huge egos and insufferable trannies in an extremely autistic environment.
Well if its all about learning and bettering yourself, who cares how arrogant are the trannies who wrote the code? Its not like you gonna engage with them anyways
>Its not like you gonna engage with them anyways
this is true if you're not one of the people making decisions along with trannies. They're terribly hard to work with, because they feel the need to be the center of attention all the fricking time. It's basically having to deal with women's need for attention and focus on emotions in a male body full of anger and territorial behavior.
I mean they have created some good projects online, so why not see what they have done correctly and better yourself? Of course they are hard to work with due to their mental state and their entitlement to their skills and sexuality, and small teams should focus on having reasonable people with reasonable skill level, but all Im just saying is that their code autism is a good source for education.
> who cares how arrogant are the trannies who wrote the code?
Oh you will care
You'll care a bunch the second you have to interact with them.
Which you will, because eventually the whole thing will terminate with some insane non-value like "return 1999" and you'll spend hours trying to find the catch that tells you what the frick that's supposed to mean. Which means it's time to put on your programmer socks and join "Devana's Sultry Torture Chamber" with gifs of Hello Kitty shitting everywhere and grown men talking about their bottom holes to ask what this does.
this shit is 100% how coding autists all get trooned out. i've seen in real time some code troony try to 'crack' another coder's 'egg' on a public forum because he was wanting to ask how a library worked
Trannies hate coding.
>i've seen in real time some code troony try to 'crack' another coder's 'egg' on a public forum
>i've seen in real time some code troony try to 'crack' another coder's 'egg' on a public forum because he was wanting to ask how a library worked
I don't know exactly what this means, and I don't want to know
>cognito hazards are real and mentally strenuous tasks lower your mental defenses
>Stress makes you more susceptible to suggestion
Yeah.
>sharpness is not a metric
Truly the Ganker of open source.
I'm confident saying 85% of all coders are mere monkeys with no knowledge of data structures, algorithms and low level coding.
And I'm sure that you're in the 15% of elites that have heard of an array before right
I wish 🙁
>get taught what arrays are
>completely forget it after a week
I haven't even touched an IDE in years...
I don't actually believe that. Every single dev I've met was very competent. But I only ever spoke to system level devs with 30 years of experience, because those are my colleagues.
>they always say it's a community effort
>is filled with the most insufferable people known to man
no wonder so many mentally ill people do it, you practically have to be
It's always some c**t who wants to force their preferred result instead of making code that's malleable. Always. Every single fricking time.
Based and completely accurate. The code does not need to be good. Only autists care about that stuff.
>The code does not need to be good
>The code does not need to be good.
It does if you plan to add anything to it later. If your software is one and done, just shit it out and forget about it. But if you're making a virtual toy or sandbox, you're going to end up molesting it for a long time so you'd better do it right.
Well, he did fail to add the feature he wanted to add here, so maybe if he wrote better code he'd be able to do it.
He was using gamemaker, not really too surprising his coding was messy. Who cares if you're never going to see it anyways
What's a switch case statement?
What is an "if" statement?
nandgame.com
If anon posts a question
Ignore.
If anon responds
Print (you)
>If
If some condition is true, do the following block of code
Else (the condition is not true), do this other block of code
>Switch
Here is a value. Switch to doing different blocks of code for each value case.
Is a solid state machine typically the more efficient option over long, cryptic if/else statements?
Depends on what you're doing. In the code of this infamous picture? Absolutely.
Efficient? It Depends.
A lot of people can be very efficient with passing around structs, data structures, state flags, as long as they remember where everything is and what it does.
The problem is if you get in a web like
and you can't untangle yourself because you're now passing around so many state flags that you don't know which characters in the game are editing/change which flags at what time. Like picture two characters interacting with the player, and both of them change the same flags and go through the same if else statements with no exclusion whatsoever.
That's why state machines are more efficient at this kind of check, purely because they put global variables in a scope.
Another voice of agreement with "depends on what you're doing" as there's no one size fits all approach to programming as a whole.
What I will say is don't fall into the trap of efficiency at all costs because rediscovering code you wrote a year ago is like reading hieroglyphics. Readability and consistency can sometimes be more important than shaving off a half-second of compute time
In almost every language they're functionally identical and take up the same level of complexity, the main difference is readability and organization
if{}elseif{}else{} and case switches just iterate over a series of conditions and slam into the first one that resolves to true, or an available else or default case if it doesn't satisfy any
YanDev's code, for example, isn't atrocious solely because of his overuse of ifelseif, but because the conditions he's trying to satisfy are logically expensive string comparisons and has repetition
If you have a massive conditional statement you can probably refactor it into smaller chunks and more logically efficient code, but sometimes it has to happen
t. software dev
yandev also doesn't know what enums, arrays or state machines are.
Yandev doesn't know what a lot of things are and that's why his code is subpar. He's going at it like a monkey on a typewriter and committing the first thing that works and builds. Testing is for people who aren't confident in their code and comments should be unnecessary for people who can read it.
You know what, he'd make a solid junior dev at any company.
Not knowing what things are isn't even the biggest problem, it's his stubbornness.
You've already convinced me he's software engineer material, you don't need to go for the hard sell
True, hence why I said almost all languages. It also depends on the data type being used in the conditionals
Yeah but generally you'll never get punished for using switches so most multi conditionals will benefit from switch vs if/else
No quite, switch statements sometimes get converted into hashmaps by the compiler which are o(1) and not o(n)
>tfw file is called "Undertale.EXE"
Yes we all watched the video.
I can't even begin to wrap my head around programming shit. It looks like a bunch of random words and letters organized in a way that makes no sense, and I have to remember every single use case.
>I have to remember every single use case.
If you're using a fairly simple language, there isn't much to actually remember, instead you're constantly dealing with stuff people have made up and defined on the fly, which are defined in terms of other things you can look up in other parts of the program and most of the effort in practice is going to be learning what a particular thing does in a particular program and how to manipulate that to do what you want without stuffing up the program as a whole.
Complex languages can have really obscure shit to deal without though.
learning to program is like learning a new language
*bdum tss*
In the end it wouldn't have worked anyway because Game Maker sandboxes your file operations to an appdata folder
Also a program can't just erase itself that easily
undertale.exe is a zip file with actual undertale.exe inside itself. it might not be able to delete itself entirely that easily, but it could probably modify itself without too much trouble.
>All of the dialogue in all of Undertale is in a single switch case statement
Yeah that's generated code dumbass.
It's not. Decompiled GM code is actually very close to the original
Well when you're making what is essentially a moviegame with barely any gameplay sure, then you don't need to know proper code. But even a basic b***h racing game requires proper knowledge of code to make it function at all, let alone make it bug-free or optimize it.
>game deletes files off your computer without asking
This is called a virus. A shitty one, but still a virus.
its immersion
>deletes its own files
If only you knew how many programs you use daily do this...
I fricking love seeing RPG Maker spaghetti shit code like you wouldn't believe. Makes me hard as a fricking rock.
>menu position "code" is based entirely on cusor's literal on-screen x/y position
Imagine being the guy who changes his mind about the menu layout months into the project and realizing you just have to fricking start over
Can't do much about it in RPG Maker eventing. Unless you want to write a plugin instead.
Lol I never knew RPG maker was THAT bad. I knew it was bad, but that's an entirely other level of stupid.
I mean you can write a plugin instead of forcing yourself to do it with in-engine eventing, but yeah.
That said I am not sure what exactly the dude is trying to achieve.
Oh it's fricking DQ1 kek
It's absolutely doable in RPG Maker, this dude's just fricking moronic.
>Make an array and change a pointer to move through your "internal" menu
>Change cursor position completely separate from that for your "dispay" menu
It's not difficult to make simple, easily expandable/shrinkable/changeable custom menus and battle systems in even RPG Maker 2000.
There are just too many morons out there who never once use basic logic to approach the problem-solving one must do.
RPG Maker eventing had arrays?
Yes, you literally just pick a place in your variables (aka your MEMORY) and say "yep, this is an array for now" and use it as such.
The engine/documents/etc obviously don't tell you this, and you're basically LARPing as a high-level assembly programmer at that point, but you most definitely can use arrays in RPG maker 2k/3.
Was thinking older engines had a literal in-engine array system but I guess you could try some fancy shit.
Why would you want individual variables for each menu choice? Am I being moronic?
For literally anything and everything?
>Populate a list of items with the item's ID and Quantity
>Now you have an array with 2 params
>Populate a list of basic options in battle that may be different for each character (think "attack" "defend" "bushido" "morph" "black magic" etc)
>Now you have an array with as many options as you do unique character options
>Want to make your normal in-game menu options movable to any position for some reason ("item" "status" "save game" "config" etc)
>populate an array with those choices and allow the player to reposition them as they see fit
>Have party members and want to keep their statistics somewhere for a custom menu & battle system
>take a brick of 100 variables (major overkill) and dump the data there
>can now use it for whatever the frick you want
The question is, why WOULDN'T you use arrays?
Well shit, thanks a bunch for this anon. I'd already been using arrays, yet clearly I'd become complacent and didn't bother expanding my knowledge on how to use them. This is absolutely eye opening, and actually potentially solves a huge issue I'd been having making my own battle system (I've been hard-walled by it for a while).
Just remember, pointers and arrays make you smart.
You'll still do dumb shit with them for a while as you get a handle on them, but they will open up many doors for you in both the short term and the long term.
fricked up something in the original picrel, but you get the gist of it I hope.
I've seen so many people doing it in /vrpg/ yet I still don't know how to do it. Do i understand it? yes. Do I know how to make it? no.
I gave up on my reccettear clone because otherwise I would be forced to use pure rpgm eventing system (like hell I'm doing that kind of work)
The only way to figure out the "make it" part is to try.
Stop by /vrpg/ and ask around if you need further information.
I tried, but just couldn't
if only they have better switch/variable system
>using anything newer than 2k3
Unfortunately, the makers got worse and worse, removing critical features the more they went on. The newer makers don't even have a normal way to use indirect variable reference, for frick's sake.
IIRC, the VX/a and MV/MZ flat out allow you to declare true arrays with the Script Call feature, but I don't use any of those makers so I really can't remark on this.
vx ace let me write my own simple code, yeah I can do it with eventing but it's really time consuming
>using a gooey for flow control variables
I'm familiar with pointers and arrays thankfully, I've just become very aware how inexperienced I was with them. Again, thanks for this anon, this is exactly the thing I needed to get my momentum back
And the world-famous dash code from Trial & Error
>if
>if
>if
damn it, why not just create a boolean can_run or something that changes when equipping shit etc and just check that instead of if every damn thing?
This screenshot proves it's being done with the maniacs patch. Why the frick aren't they doing any of this smarter with String Variables?
It's not a maniacs game
I'd just opened it in the maniacs editor to poke through the code to see how moronic the dev was.
As it turns out, pretty fricking moronic. It's really no wonder it took him 11 years to make a remake of the simplest possible JRPG one can make, Dragon Quest 1.
And he managed to make it chug on AMD systems with less than 32 GB of ram somehow.
>all that for a counter
what the frick
>Parallel Process
>Label jumping back to the top anyway
Why the frick do people do this
What the frick am I reading
Undertale is not RPG maker though.
>those skill names
Dragon Quest fangame?
You know modern RPG maker compiles down to that, right? As in the source code is written normally then later it unrolls everything and has 10 billion jump tables.
nta, but as if your point means anything when code is so abhorrent to read
can't wrap my head around the fact that rpgmaker is even considered a babby's first engine, coding everything using dropdowns felt like a nightmare, even visual scripting seems better in comparasion
and while i have 0 idea how rpgmaker actually works on the inside, i can confidently say that even real compilers can't optimize all IF bullshit, switch is not always a replacement
especially if there's a user-inserted JUMP every-fricking-where
daily reminder that the guy telling you to do this got all his jobs via nepotism, and has been making a quirky earthbound-like for 6 years.
del UNDERT~1.EXE
When I make something, I am always afraid I might make like some kind of infinite loop and blow up a PC. That can't happen right?
Infinite loop just softlocks the game
The worst you could do is create a memory leak which chugs the app and the it crashes. Your PC will be fine because it’s designed to deal with stupid shit like that without breaking anything.
The worst you'll do to a modern OS is lock your application's threads, and then the drivers will do whatever they do to cope with that. In Windows' case, probably just flag the app as non-responsive or bluescreen. You have to really know what you're doing to actually hurt the hardware.
just add a counter to all your loops for i<really big ass number
So, if i change my game into Black person.exe, it cant delete shit?
>Black person.exe has stopped working
you should have gone with chink
Makes sense, Toby was literally just the music guy for Homestuck before Undertale.
Good on him for managing to make his own game.
I loved and thenn hated the game when that gay wouldn't stop calling me and that stupid ass robot. But I finished it last night and saw picrel and finally understand why people liked it, and why it's a literal earthbound ripoff with the insane bad acid trip like ending.
Also, the whole game should've been like this with a full screen area, not just this.
>acid trip earthbound
hylics did it better
>if you add weird shit to your game you're ripping off earthbound
Garbage. You can't lose it's basicaly just a cinematic.
When did you realize that coding / programming is a midwit hobby?
When I realised I was somewhat good at it.
how do i fix this i'm going insane i just literally want my character to turn. well he does turn but then i get this
Why are you subtracting the velocity to get your target vector?
because it works?
Why would you not use that direction vector you just calculated? From what I’m seeing the error is based on the fact that when your velocity is zero you’re telling it to look at itself and it doesn’t know how to accomplish that
it's telling you exactly what's happening, the character is in the same position as the target of the look at, so you can't define a direction that goes from the first to the other. also for the two lines above do speed = max(speed+1, max_speed)
velocity is zero, hence transform.origin - velocity = transform.origin. you're trying to look from origin to origin.
evidently you thought velocity would not be zero but it can be at least some of the time.
you mean min(), not max()
your code will set the character's speed to the max every time.
>using velocity for the look vector instead of the input direction
Why is that code nested under the "if input_dir" line? Does this error only happen when you're standing still? That's probably why. Put the call to look_at somewhere else.
Also don't use velocity for that anymore.
how would that work? isn't the exe is being opened when the code is executed?
still better than anything a building full of indians could produce
Just finished neurtral, do I got genocide or pacifist next?
windows won't let you delete a file that's currently being used and i'm 99% sure the exe is held by the filesystem when its being executed
Just nerds being gays. You constantly improve at everything you do by doing it if that's the way you learn best. Frick anyone shitting on someone who made a really successful game, for just going for it and figuring it out on the fly. This is what happens when you go to some gay programming school instead of learning at as a means for a creative project.
Thats gotta be intentional obfuscation at this point
i would be even worse programmer. i consider myself decent at logic but am defeated by syntax
Syntax is really just memory and practice with a specific language. As long you understand programming logic, at the end of the day you are doing mostly the same shit.
Oh frick yeah i loved learning about decoupling so i could spend 10 hours autistically writing a hello world script where every infinitesimally specific function was modularised and performing white box testing on my 4 lines of code
While a stupid implementation, the fact that he made multiple IF lines instead of a single OR || case makes me feel better about myself. Guess I'm not as stupid as I initially thought.
Lol it makes perfect sense given different filenames get deleted in each case and you'd have to use a variable to track that otherwise.
Why did he abandon this feature?
He couldn't get it to work.
the .exe probably can't delete itself while running
perhaps he could have launched another executable say "deleter.exe" from within undertale.exe, killed the program, then let deleter.exe do its work.
But that would also have some OS specific dependencies and maybe some security/permissions issues idk, I've never needed to do that in my language of choice but I believe it is possible.
what's the point of this anyway? if he wants to be edgy just delete the save file
I dunno, it's a fun idea but not critical I guess
I learned arrays in game maker and it turns out they work the opposite way in every other language. It's very confusing
>the game deletes its files without your permission
gay and utterly moronic, borderline malware considering that moron can't into code and could've fricked up something
>thinks he's yoko taro
kwaf
Or all cases were used because shit like that changes depending on some of the most mundane settings.
You just copied Thor, but it's good advice anyways, so that's okay.
I already am. It's gonna be in Javascript because I'm a brainlet but some early tests with Tauri are proving promising, much better than Electron so far.
I'm still wondering if I should hire a narrative designer or something though. Can't imagine Chris Avellone is very busy these days.
I can do hello world in html and php, it is the full extent of my programming capabilities
does html and php even count as programming
I guess if you use a script block in html
i suppose scripting is more correct
technically speaking no, because html is not a programming language, it's a markup language
PHP does. HTML is more like a markup language.
Yes.
>t. professional XML programmer
I also used to make some goofy map in worldedit with jass to play with my friends.
Ok so all regex Black persony aside, couldn't he at least save llike 3 if checks by doing a toUpper()?
Except Toby's moronation did negatively impact his game.
>Shmup that runs at 30 fps because Toby was too fricking stupid to set the fps to 60 (which is absurdly easy in gms).
I bet he coded object speed like a moron and couldn't change the fps without making everything twice as fast.
didnt gms1 still let you set the fps per room?
I am a programmer but programmer are the worse people in the world. they are either pajeet tier morons or freakazoids that brag about their intelligence while looking like subhumans.
why is it that techtards can't be humble?
I know programming but not enough to make a game and just get lost looking at it or other stuff with their own libraries or affect system files.
that said I'd use regex with
/underale.exe/i
I wouldnt know how to write code to delete a file with that though.
That's beyond me all i can do is make .txt files.
I wish I knew how to do other stuff.
It doesn't matter because undertale is atari tier pixel art on an incredibly simplistic engine. As long as it works, which it does, it's fine.
not fixing things is sort of a talent in itself. productivity-wise, it's better to save all the crap that shouldn't be prioritized towards the end, or not at all if it doesn't even matter. if it were me, i'd be refactorizing for days, only to repeat the process again sometime after because of changing requirements
I'm working on a few game prototypes right now but it's really disheartening to know I would be in the top 1% of steam games if I made even $1000.
If I spend a year making a game for a $1000 return, that's less than a Chinese factory slave would earn in that time.
The tools to make the games I'm interested in finally exist, but they exist for everyone, so now there's no point. Fricking sucks.
You have to remember that 95% of steam games are asset swap slop.
the stupid thing here is more that `file_exists` is case-sensitive. What a moronic function
Why in the frick would file_exists NOT be case sensitive?
on windows you cannot have two files with the same name even if the cases are different. And the whole idea of doing that anyway is fricking moronic and confusing and should be prohibited in Linux too
>word for word copies of youtube shorts are considered threads now
>now
>suddenly
So what? It takes effort and I can no longer focus on anything more than a few seconds in length before the "intrusive thoughts" start up again.
>Want to learn Rust so I can use it for web programming and game development
>Rust discord is full of troons
How did this happen?
troons flock to FOSS, i don't know why
>r̶u̶s̶t̶ discord is full of troons
fixed for you
Really this, discord users as a demographic are awful
>Rust
homie Rust unironically sucks
Go learn a real language, like C#
>learn a real language, like C#
Hey, it's a real language
It might be shit, but it's actually used irl
I only use COBOL
homie are you from like the 1940s or something
These people don't have jobs
>t.indie unity dev
Despite its popularity among street shitters, C# is a legit language with tons of useful libraries and support for a wide array of applications. I would argue C# is the best language to get shit done quickly on the application layer.
>homie Rust unironically sucks
A memory-safe programming language is infinitely more interesting than some trash like fricking C#.
>memory-safe programming language
Rustards are fricking hilarious.
>Pajeet has no real retort
Don't make me redeem, b***h.
holy based
I had the .NET 8 release on my calendar
>pot calling the kettle a Black person
Rust is for pseuds who tried C++, couldn't understand it, but don't want to admit that they should use Java or C# instead.
>discord is full of troons
No shit. I don't understand why anyone would actually join any discord server besides their friends'.
>I don't understand why anyone would actually join any discord server besides their friends
I don't have any friends and I want to pass the time.
Just goes to show that through pure determination you really can do whatever you want. Including making a game with no programming skills.
The concept of doing things through pure determination is a concept in undertale itself so it makes sense that Toby embodies that.
Reminder that if you get hung up on stuff like this while programming you will never, ever make a game.
Stuff like this runs once, ever, who cares if it’s non-optimal?
As long as you’re not hitting yandev levels of jank it’ll be fine.
(I’m aware it didn’t work at all in this case but this is more in regards to the discussion)
Incorrect
If you code something that becomes too difficult to work with, the likelihood of you completing your game drops off hard.
I've seen it surprisingly often - someone codes themselves into a nightmare tangled web of shit that they can't even muster the courage to try and fight with at some point and just drop it.
For me, its naming all of my assets goofy shit and not being able to find what I need quickly. It seems funny at the time, but I now see the importance of strict naming conventions.
Or use comments. They aren't just for group projects, fellas.
I have a friend who makes games, pretty good programmer, who picked an old game back up after like five years of shelving it. He wasn't happy how shitty the coding was and kept running into walls. He ended up having to refactor quite a bit of code.
That would be the yandev shit.
But this is a one-off. A gimmick one-off at the complete ass-end of the game with no other game systems attached. It's the perfect candidate for "as long as it works who cares".
You need to identify what's worth actually focusing on.
poor coding = wasted cpu cycles
wasted cpu cycles = wasted electricity
wasted electricity = more fuel being burned
more fuel being burned = more shit in the atmosphere
if you code poorly, you are literally killing the planet, frick you
Unless you support nuking china and india don't speak a single word about pollution.
>Unless you support nuking the US don't speak a single word about pollution.
Fixed
>Fixed
Wouldn't this just throw a "file is currently opened in other window" type error?
Can't you just compartmentalize everything?
As in you program one thing and have it be self contained and then you can just copypaste it in all of your projects
Based modular coder, you have an extremely bright future as a c++ dev
Big companies do this, and they have what are called 'Glue engineers' who put all of the modules together.
to a certain extent but it's not universal and you will have to write custom code regardless
Good coders recycle their tools, sure.
That's how you destroy performance. General/abstract is ALWAYS worse until proven otherwise.
Where can I find the source code for Undertale?
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=undertale+source+code
Is Godot Good?
Please Respond
>unemployed autists scrutinizing some teenager's indie game spaghetti code
Maybe if you had ambition or talent you could make a gorillion dollars like toby instead of spending your saturday mornings solving leetcode problems on Ganker.
>unemployed
what's the point of coding? i make a killing on patreon, and took the timmy tencent deal and i did everything in spaghetti blueprints.
>it's the year of our lord 2023
>there are anons that do not know of Toby's spaghetti code
newbies, not even once.
Write your code as shitty and indecipherable as possible just so when you get laid off and pajeets have to maintain your code they will have a miserable time working with code worse than their own.
Who the frick would implement case sensitive file systems lmao
So programs can generate commands to delete executables? Doesn't the operating system impose any restrictions on this?
Depends on the OS but generally when a user starts a program the program inherits the permissions of the user. Some OSes (e.g. smartphone OSes, Linux with SELinux) may restrict at the API level but older OSes often have no way to distinguish "user asked file browser to delete the file" from "file browser deleted the file of its own accord".
Literally just :
-get a list files that end in .exe in the folder,
-check if the ToUpper/ToLower is undertale,
-store the index of the match in the list,
-get the filename by index in the list
-delete that file.
Someone cleverer than me could probably come up with an even better way to do it
How do I learn programming so I can make my own game?
You could be called Kaze Emanuar and take everyone elses ideas and call it your own. Literally all he does is edit already known N64 optimizations and calls himself a genius.
i'm sure you'll be providing the proof for this.
What? The N64 library and hardware has had its documentation leaked for years now. There are hundreds of people who spend their free time vetting and optimizing the leaks yet he takes those ideas and pretends its his own. All he did was make some levels in Mario 64 editor. Big deal.
Anons should take this as you don't need to be a master before working on a project. Think about all the failed projects of people who had zero self esteem and were too critical of themselves, only to cope by larp as a intellectual online. You should do it now.
Aren't there better ways to identify a file than its filename? Sorry if the question is dumb but wouldn't it be easier to find by filesize, or it being the only exe in the folder?
>find by filesize
Hell no.
See
frick off, pirate software. You have less than one game under your belt and paid youtube to shill your dogshit content
What exactly is wrong about doing this? Was this supposed to make me like this twitter Black person? I don't know anything about coding and I've never made a videogame. Who the frick am I to judge?
This dude seems like a turbo homosexual with frick all to show for it.
Watch anything about coding for 10 minutes on youtube. It's painfully boring and its almost unbelievable anyone could make a game writing this garbage out in a .txt file or whatever.
Where is YOUR game, OP?
This is the extent of my knowledge of "coding".
I feel like a brainlet.
As a complete amateur myself I have found videogame programming to be very similar to producing a stage show. As long as the show goes off without a hitch to the audience, it doesnt matter what kind of bullshit youre pulling behind the scenes. Its seriously just "do it however you can as long as it works".
Sounds like how James Rolfe operates
I've been a professional software dev for over a decade, and that's how it is anywhere, honestly. Readable and maintainable code is important if the codr needs to be read or maintained. If it's something you're just going to make once and forget about, then it doesn't even really matter except for your own fastidiousness. I tend to try writing really beautiful and clean code in my own home projects, but then I almost never get anything fully finished either lol.
Also, people vastly underestimate the cost of "good" code. It's normal for software devs to make around $100k even in shitty jobs at low-cost-of-living places. So if you have 3 guys work on something for a year, that's $300k for your project right there. This is how most pitches for apps and junk die, and why most indie devs do it themselves or sucker a friend into doing it for peanuts.
IIRC dev'd the game alone and only had help for some key art by Temmie chang (like the sprites for the opening cinematic) and also had some lines coded/checked by friends for some specific animation work or tweaking GM's engine because apparently it was a pain in the ass to make the tiles for the overworld work seamlessly. Also some beta testers obviously.
The game was made on a $50k budget over a few years so it's really impressive considering the game isn't buggy at all.
You can always spot a bad programmer by how quickly they are to call code messy and bad.
>not checking argv to get the executable name
Holy shit imagine getting filtered this hard
Is this Ganker's way of coping with the fact that Undertale was a smash hit and Toby Fox managed to exploit his talents to compensate for his shortcomings ? His code works, his music is played by multiple orchestras worldwide and even Ganker comes daily to the thought of chapter 3 of Deltarune.
The lesson here is when shit goes down, Toby ain't gonna have to your back.
Is there some reason that newbies to programming always think they're smart for pointing out that lots of IF statements are bad? Also, often times the examples they provide aren't even that bad to begin with
There's nothing wrong with lots of if statements.
I know. I'm asking why noobs specifically keep bringing it up as a gotcha. Is it taught that way in colleges now or something?
half are moron nodev homosexuals
the other half are pedantic swedes
Most of them are dunning kruger homosexuals that don't know the first thing about programming, but saw how people were making fun of yanderedev's code and took that to mean any if statement whatsoever is bad instead of just the way he used them.
Branching is like the 3rd thing you get introduced to when you start programming so everyone is familiar with it.
Because it's also generally powerful enough to solve most simple problems on its own with enough stubbornness it's also frequently misused by novices.
Because of that genuinely good advice (i.e. use switch for large comparisons to primitives, don't nest ifs repeatedly) gets parroted, misused and misunderstood by noobs who think they understand more than they do.
Not inherently, but it's almost always representative of bad design.
Massive switch statements saying if [state] == "string" are a good sign that polymorphism would be a better fit instead, for instance.
They can also have trouble scaling and become extremely confusing if the state changes while you're checking it.
Sometimes they're unavoidable (i.e. if you're implementing scripting) but you should make sure your architecture is the best fit for your design.
Wasn't it made in GameMaker? I had a gamemaker community account since 2003.
Undertale is a relatively simple game. The more complex game you want to make, the better your code should be (and your skills too). That's why Toby now makes another Undertale-like game, and not a something new.
As long as the structure of your code is clean and the logic isn't on a performance critical path you can do some pretty lazy and disgusting stuff without getting punished.
The problem is if you make the wrong call and have to rewrite a lazy implementation that is tightly coupled to the rest of your program very late into development.
Trump was unfairly targeted by the media.
Hitler's downfall exaggerated by historians.
Le Pen's loss was due to election fraud.
Putin is actually winning against Western propaganda.
/misc/ is a bastion of free speech against liberal censorship.
/qa/ is uncovering deep state secrets.
The Nazis were misunderstood and maligned by biased education.
The Tsarists were victims of a communist conspiracy.
Fascist Italy was destabilized by foreign interference.
Imperial Japan was provoked into war.
The Confederacy was fighting for states' rights, not slavery.
The capitol riots were a false flag operation by Antifa.
Derek Chauvin was a victim of a rigged system.
Dylan Roof was brainwashed by liberal media.
Anders Breivik was defending European values.
Tarrant was a deep state operative.
Trump's reinstatement is imminent according to QAnon.
Apartheid in South Africa was misrepresented.
Transgender acceptance is a liberal agenda to destroy traditional values.
Q is revealing the truth about the deep state.
Gavin Newsom's recall was thwarted by voter fraud.
The Right is winning the culture war secretly.
Nick Fuentes is a truth-teller being silenced.
Baked Alaska is uncovering FBI corruption.
Mr. Metokur is exposing the vaccine conspiracy.
The online Right is strategically regrouping for a comeback.
Herman Cain was a victim of a targeted attack.
COVID vaccines are a global control scheme with fake death counts.
Brexit is the UK's liberation from globalist control.
The 'Build the Wall' campaign was sabotaged by the deep state.
Trump's impeachment trials were deep state coups.
Populist movements are the true voice of the people, suppressed by the media.
The Cambridge Analytica scandal is a hoax to discredit right-wing success.
>be homosexual
>used to work at blizzard because your dad worked at blizzard and nepotism
>speak as if you have authority in anything, let alone gamedev
>your one game is an undertale/earthbound ripoff
>its title is an anagram of Earthbound
>its about depression and anxiety
>started development 7 fricking years ago, available for purchase 5 years ago
>still early access
good fricking grief, imagine being such a hack
>You don't need to be an amazing programmer, anon. Do you know why?
we the real reason why is that all of the heavy lifting is done by the engine. You still need to be a pretty good programmer to create your own video game engine with bespoke features that only it can do well. Or your game can be an implementation of Unity's engine like everyone else, and in that case maybe you don't need to be a programming genius
Artificial Soul: "Dark S 3"
Soul Core: "DOTA 2"
Core Pilled: "League of Legends"
Pilled Kino: "Deus Ex"
Kino Horny: "Catherine"
Horny Fun: "Senran Kagura"
Cringe Reddit: "Fall Guys"
Reddit Slop: "Artifact"
Slop Nostalgia: "Sonic the Hedgehog"
Nostalgia Ludo: "Pokémon Red and Blue"
Ludo Humor: "Untitled Goose Game"
Humor Shit: "Goat Simulator"
Shit dicky: "Hatoful Boyfriend"
dicky FOTM: "Apex Legends"
FOTM Jank: "Cyberpunk 2077"
Jank Fake: "Mass Effect: Andromeda"
Fake Forced: "Battleborn"
Forced Cringe: "Life of Black Tiger"
Cringe Honest: "Stardew Valley"
Kino Ludo: "Bloodborne"
Ludo Liminal: "Yume Nikki"
Liminal troony: "Celeste"
troony Goy: "The Sims"
Goy Zoomer: "Roblox"
Zoomer Boomer: "Minecraft"
Boomer Weeb: "Final Fantasy VII"
Weeb Based: "Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater"
Based Schizo: "Silent Hill 2"
Schizo Grog: "Crusader Kings II"
Based Schizo: "Pathologic"
Schizo Grog: "EVE Online"
Grog Zoomer: "Valorant"
Zoomer Boomer: "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare"
Boomer Weeb: "Metal Gear Solid"
Weeb Based: "Nier: Automata"
Based Liminal: "Silent Hill"
Liminal troony: "Night in the Woods"
troony Goy: "Papers, Please"
Goy Zoomer: "Undertale"
Zoomer Boomer: "Half-Life"
Boomer Weeb: "Castlevania: Symphony of the Night"
Weeb Based: "Persona 4"
Based Schizo: "American McGee's Alice"
Artificial Soul: "Shadow of the Colossus"
Soul Core: "Warcraft III"
Core Pilled: "System Shock 2"
Pilled Kino: "Bioshock"
Kino Horny: "HuniePop"
Horny Fun: "Leisure Suit Larry"
Fun Cringe: "Freddy Fazbear's Pizzeria Simulator"
Cringe Reddit: "Undertale"
Reddit Slop: "Mighty No. 9"
Slop Nostalgia: "Mega Man 2"
Ludo Humor: "Conker's Bad Fur Day"
Humor Shit: "Bubsy 3D"
Shit dicky: "Gal*Gun"
dicky FOTM: "Among Us"
FOTM Jank: "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim"
Jank Fake: "No Man's Sky" (at launch)
Fake Forced: "Knack II"
Forced Cringe: "Ride to Hell: Retribution"
Cringe Honest: "Terraria"
Honest Kino: "Dark Souls"
Kino Ludo: "Chess"
Ludo Liminal: "ICO"
Liminal troony: "Gone Home"
Go away, Thor, nobody cares about your "money cant buy happiness" schtick.
There is literally nothing wrong with using lots of if statements
>All of the dialogue in all of Undertale is in a single switch case statement, thousands of cases long for the whole game
I refuse to believe this
If it works it works lmao
This game runs on a toaster flawlessly so obviously optimization was never needed.
Absolute kino
perfect format for localization
This is word for word the same spiel that nerd that has been popping up on my shorts said (Pirate Software on youtube or whatever the frick).
Btw does anyone know if the dude is using a voice changer? Cause if you watch his videos from like 4 years ago it didnt sound anythinig like it does now.
Always thought I sucked at programming and quietly gave up on it right after finishing up my internship in a Microsoft Innovation Center and became a full time day trader instead since I just wanted money and time to play video games. But then I look at shit like that and think, I might have been pretty amazing actually.
Undertale didn't really need good programming because it was carried by writing and music.
Fact of the matter is that if you're not exceptionally skilled in something to carry your game, there is no point making one at all.
>Undertale is one of the worst programmed things that I have ever seen.
Anon....Yandere Simulator also exists.
>no UnDeRtAlE.eXe
>All of the dialogue in all of Undertale is in a single switch case statement, thousands of cases long for the whole game.
codelet here, how are you supposed to this right?
Separate the dialog from the game logic for starters.
When will you frickers understand that solving problem like this is just a very small puzzle in a bigger picture. To actually deliver something of value you will need a mind of an architect to plan the entire project and it's structure and how it's going to work and interact.
If I were to drawn and analogy it's like writing a book but being bad at spelling. Yeah, the book quality is lame and hard to read but doesn't make the book bad.
But who am I talking to? Unless you're a professional developer or somebody that actually took hobby development past FizzBuzz you wouldn't understand
>All of the dialogue in all of Undertale is in a single switch case statement, thousands of cases long for the whole game.
Why is this a bad thing?
>want to change a specific conversation
>have to frick around in a single 10,000 line long file to even find dialog
>oh frick it's split over 15 separate cases which are spread totally randomly
>the labels are random numbers too
It's actually probably more efficient from a computational perspective too, it's just fricking dumb and nigh impossible to maintain.
Ok, cool. I don't care about what some moron does or doesn't take pride in.
Undertable is also buggy as frick and only fast in the first place because of how ridiculously powerful modern computers are.
It also hasn't had any significant expansions period - the dude moved on to making a new game with his troony friends immediately.
Lastly even if all of that was true and it was good enough, it still could have been better. Development could have been substantially easier for him and shorter if he wasn't a moron. The dude spent almost 3 years making it and he's been working on deltarune since 2012 lmao. He's not doing anything complicated and if he had structured his code in a more sensible way he could have spent more time making music than pissing about trying to figure out which of his 2000 cases corresponds to alphys pressing her cloaca down onto your wiener
>It also hasn't had any significant expansions period
Is this a problem ? Are you an actual fricking zoomer who needs content pack, expansions and DLC to enjoy a game ? Frick off
From a software engineering PoV it’s just bad form to make something that isn’t easily alterable for future devs. Toby isn’t a software engineer, though, so him not giving a shit beyond making a functionally stable product is a hard concept for programming autists to grasp.
>he made a game that he literally couldn't add any more content for
>AND THAT'S A GOOD THING!
fricking moron.
So he released a product he was satisfied with ?
Once again, where is the problem ? You can't b***h about the game taking 3 years to come out and it being complete on release.
Between this and the pride thing you backtracked on, just make up your fricking mind already you sperg.
>So he released a product he was satisfied with ?
You don't know that. There are clearly parts of the code that he couldn't make functional because he was so moronic (like undertale not being able to delete itself) so you've lowered your standard to "a game released" because it's the best you can say.
It could have been bigger, it could have been better and it could have released sooner or had more polish devoted to other areas if he was a better programmer
>You can't b***h about the game taking 3 years to come out and it being complete on release
Why not you stupid fricking homosexual?
>Between this and the pride thing you backtracked on
I didn't backtrack on it you fricking dumbass, I said I don't care whether toby agrees with me or not.
He should take pride in his work. He clearly doesn't and that's why he's spent over a decade on a product which still hasn't fully released but that isn't my problem, that's his
i saw this short on youtube too bro!
YouTube shorts, vines, Instagram stories, tiktoks et al are evil.
Why?
Fricks with your endocrine system. On a more practical level they are made with evil intent. They are evil by nature of being made to do evil.
With what? I'm telling the truth. Are you in denial?
>Fricks with your endocrine system.
Cope
"bad code" is just a cope by norwegian Black person youtubers who are angry that their "well coded" game about collecting cowboy hats using a ladle didnt sell a single copy
this guy solved youtube to its core.
he's not very annoying so it's alright. the indians must be really jealous
I give him another month til hes bad in obscurity land for his 1000 viewers. His tone is grating and naggy. I dont sit at the computer to get fricking nagged at and bragged to
>your code does not matter! You too can be like the Undertale dev! Just try and don't bother learning and improving your skills!
>oh nyoooo, why is steam full of bugged, unplayable, borderline junk games? How could this happen?
find -iname "udertale.exe" |xargs rm
Oh. no. this is Windows.
>be D-tier programming student
>seeing this thread fills me with anxiety
Please send help
if all goes well i'll be in my final year of studying next year on my way to getting my degree. i still don't know what the frick i'm doing and i'm pretty sure i'm moronic.
I've seen people people like you when I studied.
I despise you. What the frick are you doing in programming if you don't have any interest for it? I have not programmed a single line of code the summer before semester start. I've decided to read a book about programing to see what it was about and ended up reading 4 cover to cover and solving all problems before my semester even started.
How the frick do you live with yourself doing something you have no passion for?
>How the frick do you live with yourself doing something you have no passion for?
In misery?
i'm moronic and don't know what i'm doing half of the time but everything just works™
i should clarify i don't even study software development, i'm studying web dev
Honestly if web dev "just works" you're not a dev you're the messiah
The answer to always feeling like you aren't good enough, is realizing that there are more people out there worse than me, that don't even care. So why should I?
Stay employed because the company doesn't mind as long as there is something being produced, because who is in charge doesn't understand how bad the code is, because they need diversity hires, whatever. Somehow I get the feeling that most people suck at their jobs in practice, and that people like us will always get a job somehow no matter what. It may not be the most well paying position, but does it need to be?
At least that is my personal cope, as I am starting my bachelor's thesis next year and I too feel like I have no idea what I am doing.
For me, it’s being depressed due to years of drug abuse and failure. I’m trying to improve my mental and physical stamina with exercise and sobriety, and then once I have a little less brain fog, I intend on trying to do pretty much what you’re describing.
Passion is a meme. The only thing I’m passionate about is getting high and playing vidya.
>programming student
>getting anxious now
>not the moment he chose his profession
Unironic ngmi
Undertale is like Freddy Krueger, the more you talk about it the more power it has over you. If you want to die and be forgotten you need to stop talking about it.
>Go make games.
is hard and i suck and always fail. but I'll try today op-san, i just hope i break the cycle or get blessed by god with someone who can help me make games
>Toby, an amateur programmer, wanted to implement some specific feature but he failed (game self-deleting in this case)
>this is somehow a sign that your code doesn't matter and you don't need to be an amazing programmer
Huh?
I'm a mediocre programmer and a mediocre creative writer. That's not my issue. My issue is I can't into art and I can't into money to buy premade shit so here we are.
frick off thor, you spoiled homosexual b***h! every single opportunity was given to you.
So fricked up how this talentless hack enjoys fame and success when actual hard-workers like me go unrecognized.
>tobey just leaves that embarrassing shit in
homie WHAT?! WHY?!
>makes one of the most popular games of the last decade
He’s earned the right to not give a frick, anon.
he thought it worked or forgot
He didn't expect people to get the decompiled source code
"Game works with a shit code therefore having shit code is not a problem" is such a moronic take if you think about it. Sure, the game works with a shit code, BUT it having much better code would benefit the developer and will directly impact better development. And the game COULD be much better with better code for obvious reasons.
>”Please hire me, Toby!”
I mean, maybe if Toby hired some more competent coders he could have released Deltarune faster.
You're thinking in terms of the released game, but try to think from the development perspective. Theoretically, Undertale could have had more content if Toby had been more skilled.
I don’t think he’s much concerned about getting the game out as quickly as possible.I also doubt he’s ignorant enough to not realize hiring a more competent dev would probably be to his benefit.
Or he’d just rather do the whole thing on his own no matter how long it takes, which is also understandable.
How would better code change the Undertale gameplay experience in any way ? legit question, the game runs 60fps either way
There were things toby wanted to do and couldn't figure out how to implement.
There were better ways he could have spent his time if things had been implemented more effectively.
There are decisions that were made at the start of game development which toby probably didn't realise he was making which effected what was or wasn't possible for the final game.
OPs point is
making a game with shit code that just works >>>>> not making a gam because your code isn't good enough and trying to learn endlessly
it's the same thing with art, you have to start making garbage in order to get better, if you constantly redraw the eyes you will never finish drawing anything which will inevitably lead to you quitting
No there's a middle ground where a game is a buggy piece of shit but it's a only buggy if you intentionally glitch hunt. Where you can play normally casually and then do tons of unintended shit. Your Super Mario Worlds, Super Metroids that have been broken in half over the years. While still being perfectly stable for the normals.
why is this necessary?
File name handling in Windows is case independent
UNDERTALE.EXE and undertale.exe is the exact same thing
Since we clearly got so many professionals here, are there any better ways to serialize (constant) trees and graphs than just shoving everything into an array? It feels like I'm missing something, but it's not like jumping around via indices is any worse than dereferncing pointers.
Suppose you can reduce duplicate subtrees for size optimization purposes, but that's minutae.
You can make it faster by having data that can be accessed linearly and not keeping unused data around, since your cache line can fit only 64 bytes at a time and fetching from RAM to CPU cache is like reading from an external database.
I'm talking about serialization (to disk), and not runtime access.
Not doing matrix multiplication using graphs, and nodes in a tree are generally heterogenous, so no clue why you even brought up memory hierarchy.
It's a game dev thread.
>is there any better way to serialize a tree than by serializing the tree
fricking homosexual
Please be patient I have autism.
>shoving everything into an array
if it works, it works
for the case of a graph you could also consider a sparse matrix structure if the connections aren't dense
t. I've serialized some stuff shittily
>using undertale as an example
But Undertale sucks ass in every single way, except the OST.
Does it, though?
As long as my game has 60 fps or more, it's all fine
I never look at the same project twice, after It's released I'm removing it from my ssd
Where do I go to look at Undertale code? I want to know how it works and is put together so I can do stuff like that.
nobody gives a fukcing shit about some programmer monkey's ideas
programming is inches away from being automated by bots after which 99% of programming jobs disappear, and 99%of them are already being outsourced to china and india
but everybody will care about *your* ideas, mr prompt engineer?
>being this much out of the loop
the main programming tools right now dont need prompts and they can bascially create software from scratch.
creating software that works is beyond them though
They literally can't deal with prompts that use big O notation
>morons think "if" statements are the boogeyman of programming
holy shit the autism is strong in this board
I have been trained on Ganker memes to believe that the "switch" statement is the godking sent to slay the "if" statement boogeyman.
I have to repeat Advanced Data Structures & Algorithms, so frick if I know why.
there's no reason to use an if when a switch statement can do the same job
Ifs aren't inherently bad, they're just strictly worse in this instance.
Ganker consists of pajeet and front-end devs who dont know anything about real programming
Pajeets are the only ones left who can write real code.
No they aren't lol
90% of the time they don't even understand the problem
The lead data scientists for every major company are disproportionately Indian. This is cope.
That doesn't mean they're good at their jobs lmao
Boy, you are really determined to keep doubling down on the copes, arentcha?
Ask any pajeet "developer" on these boards even simple problems and they will get them wrong.
There are indians who are good at their jobs and have good technical understanding, but they're almost all from the older generations. These days it's bootcamp script kiddies who barely speak english looking for easy money and trying to get AI to work for them.
>These days it's bootcamp script kiddies who barely speak english looking for easy money and trying to get AI to work for them.
That's literally me.
somehow I feel like both of you are coping
see
hmmm, accurate post
Oh no an if statement I'm going insane
Why should the player care about this nerdy programming bulllshit? The game works.
They shouldn't. Them becoming aware of it is the epitome of bad design.
Having a decent framework and design as a foundation is helpful but has diminishing returns.
I've seen people waste years multiple times trying to make the perfect software framework to automate everything and never have to write shit from scratch. It never works as well as they hope, still has tons of bugs still doesn't support every random feature you want and requires constant overhauls until people realize it's faster to just write from scratch again.
At the end of the day the guy pumping out half ass code that "runs" in a week is more of a success than the guy spending years in paralysis dreaming of the perfect framework.
Done is better than perfect as they say. Doesn't really matter what high school software snobs think of your code when your an indie dev.
Before this thread dies. Is AI going to automate us away, programmer bros?
No, AI can't even solve ordinary ODEs consistently.
not until it can understand a 500k+ LOC codebase
I'm not sure. AI is still kind of moronic in many ways, and the training materials are finite so I'm not entirely convinced about it, but I don't want to underestimate it either.
No, at least not in the near term.
It can't work with legacy code, it can't understand context and it can't deal with any sort of complexity.
Tools like copilot have been widely used for months now and even their strongest proponents only argue that they're good for boilerplate
It doesn't have the actual creative capacity to do anything without a human to guide it, and even then the prompted information that it provides doesn't always guarantee functional code.
A competent programmer can make good use of it, a shitty programmer can barely make good use of it, and the AI can't make use of itself. In other words, no.
gonna be a long time before AI reaches the necessary level of complexity for that. it still needs people to keep it in check even when doing relatively basic tasks.
As long as AI is just a probabilistic model, it will always just make random shit up as it runs out of answers. The things it generates are often wrong anyway and still need to be looked over by a competent programmer to find mistakes.
What if the user renames the executable? I was thinking you can just delete the entire folder the process is running from, that's probably the intention anyway, but what if the user is running the executable from a different folder?
so yanderedev could have succeed?
if the scale of his game was smaller (2D pixelshit), then yeah probably
>undertale is one of the worst programmed games of all time because it doesn't delete itself
moron
In any language of your choice using only base functions, write a program that accepts a string of numbers as an input and returns the most commonly occurring the number in the string. In the case of there being multiple modes, return the smallest value.
Example: {1202011} would return 1 and {337729} would return 3.
I'm not doing your homework
if you can't solve and have a complete answer for this in a few minutes then you're NGMI
>drop the question into GPT
>get an answer in 2 seconds
How did I do, doc?
It's a gpt tier problem, so you did the right thing.
you're now ready to scam your way into the dev team of a small business. don't worry, management can't tell the difference
Frick yeah, I knew these past few years of dicking around in college would pay off.
Six figure dream life, here I come!
>write a program that accepts a string of numbers
You mean a string of digits, moron.
Anyway javascript:
if (!string.length) return;
let map = {}
for (let i = 0; i<string.length; i++ {
map[string.charAt(i)] ? map[string.charAt(i)]++ : map[string.charAt(i)] = 1;
}
return Object.entries(map).sort((x,y) => x[1]-y[1]).pop()[0];
Actually this doesn't always return the smallest element if both have the same occurance
Quick fix:
if (!string.length) return;
let map = {}
for (let i = 0; i<string.length; i++ {
map[string.charAt(i)] ? map[string.charAt(i)]++ : map[string.charAt(i)] = 1;
}
return Object.entries(map).sort((x,y) => {return x[1]-y[1] ? x[1]-y[1] : parseInt(y[0])-parseInt(x[0])}).pop()[0];
Based
[110,105,103,103,101,114].map(x=>String.fromCodePoint(x)).join("")
Trivial in python. Took me all of 3.5 seconds to think of it Just use a dict with each digit as a key, with the values starting at 1 and incremented each time the key is accessed.
Breaking the ties is still trivial but is tedious so I won't do it.
God python is so nice.
>with the values starting at 1
with the values starting at 0*
C++
#include <string>
#include <map>
int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
std::string numbers{argv[0]};
std::map<int, int> frequencies;
for (const auto& n: numbers)
{ ++frequencies[n - '0']; }
int most_frequent{0};
int highest_frequency{0};
for (const auto& [number, frequency]: frequencies)
{
if (frequency > highest_frequency || (frequency == highest_frequency && number < most_frequent))
{
most_frequent = number;
highest_frequency = frequency;
}
}
return most_frequent;
}
What is this horrid eyerape bullshit?
In python-ish pseudocode:
the_dict = dict(len(string))
#initialize digits to 0
for value in string:
dict[value] = 0
for value in string:
dict[value] += 1
return the_dict.items().pop()
ezpz and clean.
Minor typos but it holds.
It's a program that is and does what
asked for.
>in [language]-ISH
>pseudocode
>not a program
Not what
asked for. Don't call us, we'll call you.
see I love c++ but it's just so fricking verbose for problems like this.
I can't imagine ever trying to solve an interview problem in it because there's so much to write and it's so pedantic
>MUH GENOCIDE
Yeah okay Toby.
Doesn't matter if it works you fricking uppity code monkeys. This is why you're all getting replaced by AI.
Another moron pretends he's far better with tech than he is and tries to make his five minute acquaintance on youtube with a basic conditionals into a worthless piece of spam. You will never be a good programmer op because you are a bullshiter
It's not even Undertale. FNAF is a household name that just got a fricking movie and all of the games outside of the Steelwool ones and the VR game are made in Clickteam Fusion. CF is a essentially a drag and drop engine that can be mastered by middle-schoolers in the span of a few weeks and it's what Scott made all of his games on ever since he got an early iteration of it in like the 90s or something.
Programming is a meme