>you don't understand...with so many enemies of mankind, we simply don't have the resources for you to live well...you'll have to stay in that igloo made of radioactive waste and eat recycled corpses and bugs when you're not at your daily factory shift
>now if you'll excuse me, hunting those lowborn for sport was quite exhausting, so I shall be retiring to my private void capable yacht to dine on imported free range grox meat paired with my millenia aged vintage amasec from a planet that only produces artisanal small batch amasec, and then meeting my cousin for a second dinner on his moon palace where we'll watch cyborg gladiators with military grade implants and weapons die for our idle amusement
>couldn't you share some of that?
>DO YOU LITERALLY WANT CHAOS TO WIN? NOTHING CAN BE SPARED FROM THE WAR EFFORT. YOU LITERALLY WANT TYRANIDS TO WIN. ITS LITERALLY ILLEGAL TO CRITICIZE ME SO YOU'VE BEEN SENTENCED TO LOBOTOMIZED ENSLAVEMENT BUT ITS OKAY BECAUSE YOU'RE A CRIMINAL
Why are IoM defenders like this?
people want to pretend to be the good guy in a grimdark setting and larp as based patriots doing the hard choices for the greater good of humanity, so the hypocracy is swept under the rug and ignored.
>the hard choices
I've noticed these people want to do the violence and work their way backwards to the justification of why it was the hard choice rather than actually being forced into it
That's how most people make every decision in their life. The forebrain is an excuse-maker for the unconscious machinery and is physically incapable of making decisions or asserting control.
The ego is a figment of your imagination it can't hurt you
Idk I've experienced what you're talking about but I've also experienced what seem to be genuine choices unimpeded by rational or biological machinery.
"why doesn't the imperium of man team up with the Tau?"
can you name any time in history where there were good guys, where the good guys didn't have to make hard choices
>I've made the hard choice that I'm going to use life extending drugs to live to 500 and lounge in my marble and gold palace
>additionally, I've made the hard choice that the marble quarry workers will be eating bugs to save on costs to my new swimming pool complex
>thus is the burden of leadership. hard choices made by hard men.
i accept your concession
I think you're just going to have to accept whatever you're offered.
>argument is good guys don't make hard decisions
You lost hard lefty
>there was corrupt decadent nobles in the medieval era
>therefore all medieval fantasy is le bad
Just substitute medieval fantasy for any era or setting.
I don't have a horse in this race but I can't help but think these kinda takes on the matter are just the opposite of coin, b***h basic "2deep4u" stuff, where everything always needs to shine a light on the dark side of the human nature... of this made-up faction in a make-believe game and if others ignore that then they have "obviously ulterior motives" in doing so. But I can absolutely guarantee you that most players do not want to
>larp as based patriots doing the hard choices for the greater good of humanity
that is just the perspective of someone taking it way too seriously (as is in itself proven by those takes) and projecting that mindset onto others when those others don't even consider anything like that and in reality just see it as a more straight forward experience to begin with, rather than anything being "swept under the rug and ignored".
its the same idiot from the other thread
>theres people who over simplify the setting to good and bad guys!
Have they considered that "good guys" don't need to be morally immaculate to be the good guys.
I see what you did there
>want to be
They are the good guys, period.
That Tau stands a better chance, purely because a plasma pistol isn't a very good execution weapon. One of the other scions might, though.
Because it's funny
>ummm this silly setting is aktcually a super serious allegory for real world issues.
Don't care. I just want to play space nazis shooting aliens.
>Why are IoM defenders like this?
High testosterone
Yeah thats the setting if they get "spared" they die from alien invasion
>rations made from actual meat
>has his very own domicile with free radiation
>his shift actually ends
This all sounds extremely heretical to me.
>Officially atheist
Says who?
The God Emperor of Mankind, himself.
its not officially atheist, its officially a theocracy but i think there is some secular clause after that one guy turned it into a theocratic dictatorship and was killed.
>theocracy
It's a monarchy where the king just happens to actually be god instead of just a guy who received the crown from god. The priesthood more or less just wandered in from the street when the king was distracted with being mildly dead.
the Imperium turned into a theocracy in 32nd millennia and during the age of apostasy Vandire placed himself above the Emperor turning it into a theocratic dictatorship.
Then Thor took over and made it a secularocracy.
It's more like what would happen if the Roman Catholic Church started worshipping Lenin.
Is this really so shocking for the coddled westoids who've never seen a spin dictatorship?
This is where leftists fundamentally misunderstand the conservative psyche.
They see the decadence of the Imperial elite and decide that, because the same is not proffered to the common man or at least distributed equitably, that the project of the Imperium must be wholly unacceptable.
But to the principled rightist, material goods, especially goods that can only produce ephemeral, fleeting moments of pleasure are of no value to the proper function of one's self within a wider, righteous institution. That so long as one is entitled (within the context of 40k) the ability to make war upon Chaos and other enemies of humanity, the inequality present is of no importance.
Meds.
Now.
>fighting against a extradimensional god of disease that gets stronger the more disease there is
>deny the underclasses proper shelter, medicine, water, food
>claim the thing that is literally making your enemies stronger and your armies weaker is ephemeral fleeting materialism
stop trying to push your politics into a fictional setting.
You can't make the imperium better, trying to make it better with the way you think would make it worse.
>improving sanitation for the masses wouldn't effect the god of disease, who's empowered by diseases
>fighting against literal daemons would make it worse
Now I understand. You're a subversive Chaos worshipper trying to undermine things.
if you made the conditions "better" which is impossible anyway it'd just lead to more people, increasing more disease.
Socialists are morons
>if you used the shipyards to build warships to defend humanity instead of yachts for inbred nobility to do drugs on it would make the enemy stronger because thats socialism
stop trying to push your politics into a fictional setting.
the Imperium already builds battleships, again stop trying to insert your marxist class warfare shit into a fictional setting.
It makes no fricking sense and you just sound deranged
>the Imperium already builds battleships
They don't have enough. Why is shipyard capacity being wasted? Why do you want the Imperium to lose?
The IoM is already a command economy. Marxoid, you are not smart.
You're avoiding the question because you're a Chaos worshipping subversive.
you are a marxist subversive trying to apply marxism to a fictional setting
>Why is shipyard capacity being wasted?
The free hand of the market says that by having fewer warships it will increase their value. That must make them better. Checkmate atheist.
The IoM is already capable of spending as much as it wants on ships.
Your marxoid brain is crashing
The Imperium does not have enough ships to protect everything, they do not have as many ships as they want.
>it'd just lead to more people, increasing more disease.
>more humans to defend the human empire besieged by genocidal aliens is bad
You're pro extinction? Disgusting.
IoM already has populations in the trillions, you are advocating an unsustainable model to increase it by the tens of trillions?
how would you even implement that.
You'd need to send armies of marines to oppress the poor violent hive gangers by shooting them all
This is one of the most bootlicker takes I've seen in a while
>materialism is of no value to the honest citizen
>we should be thankful for the opportunity to work hard
>inequality is of no import as long as the grand goal is being persued
>except you my lord, you can have all the materialism you want, it's an honor to provide it
kinda ironic when marxoids call others bootlickers
Are these marxoids in the room with us right now?
indeed they are
Can you tell me what they look like? I dont see them
they look like troons
Like you, you troony.
Anyway, the point is that the grand experiment has failed. Without the Emperor's vision, it's a grimdark future forever. Humanity could turn things around if it wasn't an eternal war, but it is, so it won't.
The point of the setting is so you can play endless games of Marines versus other Marines into perpetuity, not a problem to be 'solved.' There is explicitly no solution that will not be suborned by Chaos.
the solution is the Imperium wins
Go look in a mirror, troonoid
Wow, I genuinely didnt expect such obsession, did you all just close all your troony porn tabs or what?
Why are you so obsessed with trannies, anon? Something you want to share with the class?
That's real weak anon, come on
The very act of making war against chaos that you love so much empowers chaos before lmoakhorne.
Then again, that's the catch-22 that makes the whole exercise GRIMDARK. You can't really do anything without empowering chaos because chaos is literally everything that is human (and Eldar), good AND bad. Even believing tomorrow will be a good day makes Tzeentch stronger. But then if you give in to despair, Nurgle gets stronger.
yeah you can, you can give every one the null gene. mass breeding of nulls
Great crusade of nulls into the warp
total
chaos
death
>The very act of making war against chaos that you love so much empowers chaos before lmoakhorne.
He's literally arguing that you shouldn't resist chaos now
I'm arguing that it's a catch-22. Fighting empowers khorne, but not fighting gets you killed. But you can't give in to despair either, because that empowers Nurgle. You can't hope to defeat chaos either, that empowers Tzeentch. And you'd better not damn enjoy yourself fighting, because then Slaanesh comes and megarapes you.
If I'm arguing for anything, it's that trying to "win" 40gay is a fool's errand because the game is deliberately rigged, and getting ripped off is the whole point. Don't let the cool nazis trick you, Anon. You don't want to make gayhammer real, it would not be fun nor totally trad and epic.
>You don't want to make gayhammer real
The only difference between it and real life is I'd be arrested for fighting the chaos forces IRL. We only want the power fantasy where we can empty a bolter on herectics, the catch is just there to justify the franchise going on forever without much change, and I'm okay with it because every time they change something it becomes more shitty.
No conservative I know thinks like this you false-flagging psychopath.
>you don't understand, we NEED entire planets dedicated to farming Space Poppers for inbred aristocrats' orgies, without inequality the communists win
Leave my space poppers alone, you pinko gaygit.
>cyborg gladiators with military grade implants and weapons
Kinda wack figuring out that theres loads of forces with much better gear than the average guardsmen or skitarii but they're all just private armies of people. No wonder theres constant civil war in the imperium, how many astartes chapters have lost brothers to the high tech gear of a traitor rogue trader/ plantery governers extended family other corrupt powerful officails?
>Kinda wack figuring out that theres loads of forces with much better gear than the average guardsmen or skitarii but they're all just private armies of people.
Exactly. They'll claim there isn't enough to go around because every spare scrap of material must go into a war for survival, and then equip their actual armies with bargain bin garbage and save the most exotic weapons for their own idle entertainment. Every gladiator that died in some highborn bloodsport could have died fighting orks or tyranids instead.
> Exactly. They'll claim there isn't enough to go around because every spare scrap of material must go into a war for survival, and then equip their actual armies with bargain bin garbage and save the most exotic weapons for their own idle entertainment. Every gladiator that died in some highborn bloodsport could have died fighting orks or tyranids instead.
The Necrons did their own version of this, consigning their underclass to live as weapons constantly in mindless agony while they enjoy superior hightech bodies to screw around with. The excuse as for why was probably “nah we don’t have the resources” but the reality is if you can convert an entire planet into a World Engine then you have more then enough spare resources to make every single one of your citizens as capable as a Necron Overlord. It would be smarter, too - making your average soldier vastly smarter and more effective would do much good. And they already had mindless slaves in the form of Canoptek AI.
The only reason it didn’t happen is likely just because such a population would be harder to control and keep from rebellion.
usually you only need to send a few marines to deal with it
You are basically describing the servitors marines spar with
whats the difference between a noble acting like this and say Hive gang leaders acting like this?
how would you even impose better conditions, it'd require more authoritarianism.
So the Imperium would become worse than it actually is
ironic
>how would improve it
you get a squad of space marines to pay a govenor a visit every once in a while, kinda like they do in Ultramare, you now that place that is extremely prosperous and has fought off numerous large scale chaos and xeno incursions because it actually uses its resources and wealth properly
most of the hives corruption isnt because of nobles
You people keep omitting the fact the underhive is full of criminals
you do know those hive gangers are often employeed by said nobles for their own interests, and many of those hive gangs exist because said nobles make it so your options are either work yourself to death so they can squeeze more profit or become a ganger and maybe have a chance
doesnt matter if you get rid of nobles, gangs and all the other barbarians still exist
you have fixed nothing because the problems are not the fault of the nobles.
>you wouldn't get rid of the problem
>just ignore how the tau pretty much got rid of that problem by having actually competent people run planets
>or how ultramar the subsector that enforces govenors to care about the lives of their citizens and also have far less issues with gangs
the worse part is the setting itself beats you over the head how the Imperiums problems heavily stem from a very corrupt ruling class that causes untold misery creating a feed back loop
>just let the Imperium be run by Tau.
The Tau would need to shoot the billions of criminals too.
Literally no difference.
You socialists are dumb.
or they could also offer them better jobs which looks better to them since not only do they offer better wages and working conditions, but also have a more competent police force, that and of course you also ignored the Ultramare example
Either way trying to fix the Imperium as you imagine would cause a war or civil war and require billions of death to impose your order
how do yo guys imagine the Tau actually maintains order? because their codex says they shoot people
Like rebellious Imperials they try to absorb get genocid3d basically
What is wrong with the Tau arresting criminals and rebels? That isn't immoral
the tau straight up shoot rebels
>the problems are not the fault of the nobles.
If the leaders have no influence on the system then what good are they?
Nobles arent the leaders they are as you people call the bourgeoisie.
If they arent providing ship captains or whatever they are getting shot for heresy.
>Nobles arent the leaders
Yes they are.
>marxist: the IoM needs trillions more people
>also rich pipo bad
Brilliant takes
>>DO YOU LITERALLY WANT CHAOS TO WIN? NOTHING CAN BE SPARED FROM THE WAR EFFORT. YOU LITERALLY WANT TYRANIDS TO WIN. ITS LITERALLY ILLEGAL TO CRITICIZE ME SO YOU'VE BEEN SENTENCED TO LOBOTOMIZED ENSLAVEMENT BUT ITS OKAY BECAUSE YOU'RE A CRIMINAL
Real life is basically like this, you know.
the average Imperial citizen has more to worry about "poor" hive gangs and other threats at his socioeconomic level, than rich nobles.
Marxists are fricking morons lmao
>it's okay for the nobility to be wasteful criminals because some gutter dwellers are also wasteful criminals
The nobles often arm the hive gangs anyway
>its ok for hive gangs to be wasteful criminals because comparatively few people at the top act the same way. Also they get cake.
Nobody is defending hive gangs. All the hive gangs should be conscripted into a penal legion and sent to die somewhere useful defending humanity.
theres no difference between the poor people and the rich people, morally speaking.
So your rhetoric falls flat, they both watch gladiator games, they both horde resources, they both engage in immoral behaviour,
hoard resources*
The nobles, holding divinely granted power and responsibility, should be held to a higher standard
>Humanity could turn things around if it wasn't an eternal war
How does the eternal war prevent shuffling resources from nobles doing drugs to antibiotics for workers and soldiers?
Lowborns deserve nothing.
>sperg monarchist would rather have zombie plagues than ask the nobility to build a water treatment plant instead of another statue of themselves
No no, you see, if 40k was real, I would be that nobility, not the disease-ridden plebeian dying of dysentery. I'm too white to be a lowborn!
This anon understands the true thought processes at work here
have you considered chaos sets up the situation for plagues
>heh, ever considered the enemy is the one setting up the situation by attacking us? bet you feel pretty stupid for advocating for building an army to defend ourselves now, huh?
if the Imperium didnt have to waste so much resources on policing itself itd be better able to fight external enemies.
If the poor didnt form gangs and not adhere to the Imperial Creed, they wouldnt need to waste resources dealing with heresy.
marxists getting their asses turned inside out itt.
At least it was good enough for them to just admit they are political agitating in a fricking scifi game
op you are an evil stupid moron
I enjoy corrupt nobles because they often become corrupted and it's a good break for my Acolytes to bust into a huge cathedral mansion full of elite mercenaries to arrest them as opposed to storming another crack den cult.
People who expect a culture that's been on a severe decline for thousands of years to be totally in line with egalitarian liberal worldviews don't really understand how people behave in a crisis and the Imperium is well and truly a dying society. They just happen to be more interesting than any of the aliens except for the Eldar.
Not OP, I was in the last thread, he's not b***hing that the IoM isn't a bastion of progressivism, he's b***hing that fans want to act like they are totally the good guys who never do anything wrong, and when they do commit atrocities, it's either because they have to because they are hard men making hard choices, or they are secretly chaos.
No, the Imperial system is a shitty one, the people in charge are often corrupt and/or incompetent, and that's fine, that's how it should be, but looking at everything with rose tinted glasses is missing the point.
no ones doing that. The Imperium can be good guys and still be not squeaky clean you fricking autist.
Okay, but at the same time, just because they are the "good guy," faction, that doesn't mean that the system they have is good, or that they don't commit atrocities on a regular basis essentially for the lulz.
Even if you want to go "no, all the bad stuff in the Imperium is caused by chaos!" It sure seems like the way things are set up, top to bottom, fricking funnel a lot of people right into the grip of chaos, and that *still* makes it a shitty system.
Who gives a flying frick about "duh system" you pol homosexual
>Who even cares about what the thread is about
Why are you even here?
no one cares about trying to critique a fictional scifi setting and fix it, marxoid
Not what I, or anyone else, was talking about. You have terminal brain rot.
then no one knows wtf you are talking about sperg
>deranged ad hominem
Lets get this straight anon is a "selfish shithead" for rebuking some idiot advocating marxism in a fictional setting
Personally my worldview is that the lower class oppresses people
I swear you people are a discord that keep spamming the hyperbolic blurb.
When anyone who actually understands the setting knows Chaos daemon worlds are much much worse than the Imperium.
Or even the Dark Eldars domain.
yes, the archetype daemon world is ruled by a daemon prince and everyone below him is a slave who endures unspeakable cruelty and barbarism at the whim of their patron or the gods. Theres no hope just eternal suffering, you cant even die they just resurrect you eternally and torture you.
Theres descriptions of slaanesh worlds that are just living flesh, that devours and shits out millions of enslaved souls who abuse and murder each other just to be devoured again and shat out again a new.
Its a darwinian hellscape of survival of the fittest and natural selection but its completely at the mercy of fickle gods.
>Theres no hope just eternal suffering
That's just a 40k intro line.
ok but now imagine its worse
and daemon worlds are the consequence if the Imperium fails and loses worlds to Chaos.
Though in some cases Chaos will just choose to kill all 100 billion people on the world for a laugh.
Because daemons. It's like, daemons literally exist, Chaos is an objectively real force.
which is hyberbolic and not accurate because if you know the lore you know Chaos worlds are worse. Eternal suffering is literal
Are you denying Chaos worlds are worse than Imperial worlds? they are somehow better? because thats moronic.
They literally are, Chaos isnt an alternative lifestyle of freedom.
>So why NOT try to empower Chaos to be BETTER?
because IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE PEEPEE POOPOO MILLENIUM, you have to be at least this baby eating to play
>because IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE PEEPEE POOPOO MILLENIUM, you have to be at least this baby eating to play
That should be the tagline for the game
chaos cant be better you lorelet dumbfrick. Chaos is already the evil variety of the immaterium.
i hate redditors so much its unreal
You really are moronic, Chaos isnt an alternative to the Imperial system.
Its not anarchistic freedom, its slavery. You have more freedom under the Imperial system.
Otherwise you are presenting some nihilistic argument like "i dont like the IoM, something even worse is therefore preferrable"
>You have more freedom under the Imperial system.
You quite literally don't. That is a major point in the narrative. Chaos is destructive with greater freedom even in your slavery which is combatted by the Imperium, the most oppressive regime to ever exist.
you literally do and the reason is beyond you because you are a lorelet and dumb.
The Imperium is vast and essentially lawless most if the time, its an anarchic system, theres even the possibility to be legally granted total freedom.
Chaos is not freedom, its fricking slavery hence slaves to darkness,
Your life is completely owned by the dark gods who hate human life.
Under Chaos you have no freedom, you will be brutally oppressed by tyrants.
In chaos and in the Imperium you are always and will always be a slave to your God. In the Imperium your life and fate are decided for you, often from the moment of your birth. In chaos no matter your birth and upbringing through strength, guile, determination, and willpower you can ascend to greater and greater heights. An Imperial noble can almost never be cast down from his titles for inaction but every daemon and worshipper of chaos must constantly claw over one another to not be surpassed. It is the ever changing nature of chaos.
The point is that it's THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE PEEPEE POOPOO, even the best possible option (joining the Tau) is incredibly shitty and only marginally better than chattel slavery. Why? Because it's GRIMDARK. Everything sucks and losing is the point.
>Exactly, so why not loose because of my own choices?!
>It's practically impossible, but maybe I WILL improve things!
Finally someone in this thread who can put chaos cultisr mentality to words.
>Exactly, so why not loose because of my own choices?!
>It's practically impossible, but maybe I WILL improve things!
Based, very Tzeentchian. Never stop the grind, even if it turns you into a gibbous chaospawn.
you categorically do. The Imperium doesn't have total control over every corner of the galaxy, why do you think hive gangs exist, Rogue traders? etc
Theres much more oppertunities for actual freedom in the Imperium.
Theres zero under Chaos.
you arent probably damned you are damned with chaos
not the same shit
trying to say the Imperium and chaos are equal js a false equivalency
You people are idiots
its weird as frick how the same people that keep insisting the IoM is not the good guys, try to make out chaos is the good guys,
Even as a Chaos fan i find this eyerolling mental moronation.
>BIFFORD: So why did the Emperor hate Chaos? Why did the Chaos Gods see the Emperor as their greatest enemy? What threat does Chaos pose?
>PRIESTLEY: I don't think Bryan (who certainly started the whole idea of the Chaos gods in WH - inspired by Michael Moorwiener) ever thought of Chaos as 'evil' or demon as wholly antagonistic - heroes could have demonic patrons who bestowed gifts upon them - in RoC the ideal result is too become a demon and thus gain immortality - which sounds quite a good gig to me
>BIFFORD: The way you describe it, Chaos isn't inherently evil. Is it possible for somebody to be a Chaos worshiper and be a good, heroic person?
>PRIESTLEY: Of course - if a bit of a chancer!
Priestly isnt really talking about how the lore actually is here.
Chaos is presented as ostensibly evil in all lore.
This is just moral relativism
literally saying here you are risking everything siding with chaos.
A good person could be misled by chaos to join chaos, then they get turned into a spawn.
He mentions the ideal result is to become a daemon prince, which is just as likely you get turned into a spawn. Even after you get to daemon prince status
this is what its like in the EoT:
1/2
A planetary system loomed up. He slowed further and steered close to take a good look at it. Its sun was huge, except that it was not what he would normally think of as a sun. It was not spherical but a flat disc, in colour a brilliant shimmering green. There were at least twenty different planets, each a different colour- mauve, russet, lemon yellow, magenta- but they were not arranged as planets normally are. Instead of being roughly in the same plane, their orbits criss-crossed at all angles, linke the electrons of an atom, and sometimes more than one planet shared the same orbit.Then something appeared which caused Calliden to sit stock-still with shock.
A figure was flying through the system, and it was bigger than the planets themselves, bigger than the disc-shaped green sun. A vaguely humanoid figure but crimson-furred, with a ferociously fanged, dog-like head, eyes glaring like pits of blood from beneath jutting horns, the head topped by great angled horns plus a twisted unicorn horn jutting from the crown. The creature was flying by, flapping great membranous wings which put a dozen planets in shadow with each pass. It wore brief, ornately worked armour down to the waist, glinting red and black, close-fitting except at the shoulders whch were protected by raised and extravagently worked pieces.
2/2
The curve-bladed battle-axe it carried in one hand, holding the haft loosely as it flew, was bronze-black and vaster than any weapon should be. A supernatural energy seemed to flow and crackle through the unbelievable apparition, making it more solid-seeming, more real, than any natural creature."What- what-"Calliden stuttered until his mind found a rational explanation. "It's a hallucination. Can you see it, Kwyler?"Though frightened, Kwyler was not quite as astonished as the navigator. "It is real," he said quietly, his mouth dry. "A daemon, one of rank too."Now something happened which confused Calliden at first. The apparition seemed to be retreating. Too late, be realized that it in fact was approaching, but diminishing in size at the same time.The daemon seemed angry. It flew alongside the Wandering Star, no more than twenty times the size of the spacecraft now, glancing at it sidelong with its smouldering eyes, wings beating majestically."How can it use those wings to fly in space?" Calliden queried hysterically."It flies on warp currents. Be careful. Don't do anything. Perhaps it will go away."
Calliden shrieked and pulled on the controls as the warp entity, in a sudden rage, swung round and lashed out with the battle-axe, itself larger than the starship. The Wandering Star jinked aside, narrowly missing being crushed by the blow, then sped off.The daemon did not follow. The spaceship was too minute to be worth the bother, no more significant than a gnat. When last he looked Calliden saw the immense Chaos creature, system-sized again, taking his frustration out on one of the circling coloured worlds, batting it sidewise with the flat of the battle-axe, and sending the broken pieces hurtling into the disc-shaped sun.
For the very first time the navigator felt that now he truly understood what it was that the divine Emperor was striving to protect the human race from.Briefly he wondered if the smashed planet had had a human population.
>novel excerpt you found on reddit
not canon
i accept your concession. I can post hundreds more
>BIFFORD: It sounds like corruption and damnation were not significant themes (if at all) when you were writing WH40K's story.
>PRIESTLEY: I think those are perceived things - the effects of real dangers - but I think the subtly of it got missed and largely ignored as the bask-story developed and people inside GW and picked up on the visual imagery - and the shop staff tended to take a very basic 'for the Emperor' kind of approach - well you have to go with the money in any line of business and the subtleties of the original concept (and a lot of the irony and humour) didn't really weather that very well.
Priestly reaffirms theres real dangers in the setting, the same interview he affirms witches are real threat in the setting.
You can stop cherry picking and misquoting Priestly anti-40k gay.
>Why are IoM defenders like this?
It's all a grotesque caricature, OP. You obviously didn't get the memo. Then again
>the subtleties of the original concept (and a lot of the irony and humour) didn't really weather that very well.
Also can the obvious and samegayging troll pick up his toys and frick off back to /misc/ already
The needless corruption combined with the necessary evil is what makes it grimdark.
I like grimdark. I don't know why certain people want to pretend the needless corruption isn't there and try to sanitize the IoM. They must hate 40k.
no one is, you are presenting a strawman because you are a political dickhead from reddit
Don't lie anti-40k gay, people don't need to be lectured and brow beaten over how "horrible" a fictional dystopian setting is.
>people don't need to be lectured and brow beaten over how "horrible" a fictional dystopian setting is
The literal slogan of the game is all about how GRIM and DARK the setting is. Browbeating over how totally horrible and dystopian it is IS how 40gay markets itself.
im talking about the asinine pearl clutching over the IoM that's constantly spammed by homosexuals on here.
Its like one of those weird Christian sects at your door "do you know the Imperium is bad?!"
Thats hilarious "we"? you cant distinguish reality from fiction
You are being self righteous by definition.
The Imperium is righteous not self righteous.
Even in the lore Chaos tries to often mislead people in the setting to believe its a rational alternative. Its ironic people would fall for it reading it.
this is the type of [redditor] that is anti-IoM and pro-chaos, this is what we are dealing with:
Best Pleasure world to start at as RPG character?
I am writing a fanfic where the character is Rick Sanchez level smart(from Rick and Morty). What would be the best planet to start on? The goal is to kill all xenos, overthrow the God Emperor and usher the golden age of humanity.
Average IoM defender
>overthrow the Emp
>IoM defender
Don't worry buddy, one day comprehension will dawn on you.
are you actually moronic?
newbie
moron
>Best Pleasure world to start at as RPG character?
But you've spent your entire day defending the existence of pleasure worlds for highborns to take naps on? Why is the redditor you imagined sharing your opinions?
no i haven't. Jfc you people are so mentally ill its not even funny.
The Tau are the good guys of 40k
You sound like a socialist, and socialism is bad because...it just is, okay?
I would be a sexy imperial noblewoman's lobotomized slave.
Head canon: It's to create a social barrier so cults and other rogue elements have a harder time gripping the world's government so if a Slaanesh cult infiltrated the Nobles then the common man and lesser nobles call for aid then bunker down. If a low-born Nurgle cult appeared then PDF gets sent down to scour the lower hive.
If the government is completely opaque and unaccountable then it's much harder to detect or stop a cult taking it over. Especially if the nobility already act like chaos cultists half the time they're loyal anyway.
>muh nobles, if we muh knock off the nobles
>???
>workers utopia!
>except the lower hive are all criminal gangs that will just install their own leaders and hinder any effort to improve the society.
>if you try to install water purifiers the gangers and water guilds will fight, sabotage the purifiers or seize it for themselves and extort people
>have to seen arbiters to beat up/kill everyone in the lower levels, probably will need a guard or marine company to do it, because you are dealing with millions of hostiles.
>if you start managing to actually make a difference populations and overcrowding will soar creating even more demand for resources and conflict
Yeah marxists don't really think their theories through.
>gangers bad therefore we MUST allow petty governors to have nonstop Eyes Wide Shut death orgies only barely short of a full Slaaneshi ritual or else da gommunisds win
Replace 'gommunist' with xenos/heretics and you now understand 40k.
but there slaaneshi/chaos cults at all levels of society you lorelet.
I'm sure that the people to whom "getting to eat bread" is an unprecedented luxury not seen for three generations straight produce just as many cults per capita as the guys who have harems of 200 people and spend their days drinking partying and watching slave deathmatches for fun
And cultists produced by people without any power or influence in society whatsoever are EXACTLY as important and devastating as the cults produced by people who can easily source human sacrifices by the million and who control entire planets
>keep denying you are a marxist
>exclusively use Marxist rhetoric
there'd be people on the lower levels that live like kings or queens, why don't they share their wealth with their lower class comrades?
There really isn't any difference between the rungs of Imperium society besides quantity of funds. Nobles are under constant threat of assassination , declared lethal duels and the authorities too.
I don't think the "poorer" would run it any better,
>blatantly pushing marxist theory under the disguise of complaining about 40k
>doesn't consider himself /misc/
free helicopter ride coming your way
Funny thing is that helicopter ride was Allende and he just killed basically everyone.
Pinochet was the hardline anticommie and his specialty was dog rape under heavy music
Because I imagine I would Inseki into a Highborn when I think of the fluff.
EZ.
Tau is best faction
Kroot are better than Tau
i don't really see how cruelest bloodiest regime ever makes sense as anything other than hyperbole when the Dark Eldars civilisation rubs entirely on cruelty and Khorne worlds exist.
The Imperium is preferable to that
runs*
> The Imperium is preferable to that
And the Craftworlders are preferable to that. And the Tau are preferable to that (even if they have their own problems).
>Craftworld
they wont let humans live in craftworlds you idiot
>Tau
according to their propaganda, while they are busy pushing you into forced worker camps and dictating to you what you can do while watching you with cameras.
>they wont let humans live in craftworlds you idiot
And neither do Drukhari, and you brought them up. When Craftworld/Exodite Eldar rule humans they are a thousand times as kind as the Imperium. See the various mixed Eldar-Human states in the Great Crusade
>according to their propaganda, while they are busy pushing you into forced worker camps and dictating to you what you can do while watching you with cameras.
Right, so what the Imperium does but vastly less severely so, and they won’t genocide you for having a sixth finger. Oh and their tech is better so life is more comfortable in general, and it’s probably not all too long before they develop sophisticated enough AI that they no longer need said labour camps and become post scarcity.
because Dark Eldar DO let humans live in their realm as SLAVES.
You twit.
>right
i don't think so, theres a lot more freedom for humans to live the way they want as vassal worlds of the Imperium
Tau Empire is a self serving slave empire that forces other races to join it or die.
> i don't think so, theres a lot more freedom for humans to live the way they want as vassal worlds of the Imperium
There was perhaps an equivalent amount of freedom, but there was a thousand times more comfort, better medical tech, less brutal working conditions, less corruption, longer lives….
>Tau Empire is a self serving slave empire that forces other races to join it or die.
Right, and it’s still a thousand times better than the Imperium which says whether or not you wanna join I’m going to kill you anyway unless you’re human in which case I’ll enslave you.
The brutalities of Human-Eldar empires and the Tau cannot hope to even approach the horrors of Servitors or Hive Worlds or Witch Hunts
theres no evidence living in the Tau empire is actually good, besides their inherently biased propaganda.
Plenty of clues its not actually that great. hence people rebelling.
>a thousand times better
why not 1 million tau gay?
>eldar empires cant match the horrors
You are just lying and ignoring the actual setting the Dark Eldar society is more horrifying than the Imperium.
You are the dumbest sort of Tau fanboy.
> theres no evidence living in the Tau empire is actually good, besides their inherently biased propaganda.
>Plenty of clues its not actually that great. hence people rebelling.
Give me a single thing the Tau empire does that matches the Imperium in brutality.
> You are just lying and ignoring the actual setting the Dark Eldar society is more horrifying than the Imperium.
Read slower next time. I said Craftworlder/Exodites are much better.
>You are the dumbest sort of Tau fanboy
There’s no need to be this sensitive over a tabletop game
Tau have committed multiple genocides against their client races.
They also kill Tau who merely see something they shouldn't
No i read what you said moron, Dark Eldar are much worse than the Imperium. And to releat myself again because we keep going in circles, CWE etc are ELDAR ONLY you low iq moron.
You are genuinely fricking stupid stfu. The fact i have to keep repeating myself because you keep ignoring what is said and going in circles with your replies means you are a dishonest lying c**t
> Tau have committed multiple genocides against their client races.
>They also kill Tau who merely see something they shouldn't
Right, just like the Imperium, but they don’t callously drag things out, derive pleasure from torture and genocide, and give all races and planets (even the Orks) a chance before deciding to exterminate them, while the Imperium exterminates and tortures on sight.
Still better than the Imperium! How do you think the Tau gained dozens of allies in mere decades?
> No i read what you said moron, Dark Eldar are much worse than the Imperium. And to releat myself again because we keep going in circles, CWE etc are ELDAR ONLY you low iq moron.
Then you clearly didn’t my friend, because I was never talking about Drukhari being better than the Imperium. The Craftworlders don’t want to exterminate all alien life, merely dominate the galaxy. The Exodites regularly share worlds with humans. The Eldar had peaceful human-Eldar societies in the Great Crusade before the Emperor destroyed them.
Much better than the Imperium!
> You are genuinely fricking stupid stfu. The fact i have to keep repeating myself because you keep ignoring what is said and going in circles with your replies means you are a dishonest lying c**t
Again; don’t get sensitive. Sit down, breathe for a moment, then re read my posts. If you can’t do that then I suspect Ganker will do no good for your mental health and you should probably leave for your own sake
Isn't that literally what the setting is like?
>moron tau gay keeps bringing up the eldar as being better to live than the Imperium
>except humans aren't allowed in Eldar society.
>except as slaves to be tortured in Deldar society.
I hate morons.
>Why are IoM defenders like this?
They imagine they'd surely be highborn in such a setting. Just like they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires right now in real life.
i don't imagine myself in the setting at all, as i'm not a delusional fantasist that needs to find his identity in fiction like you
>immediately starts shit-flinging
Struck a nerve, hu?
what you are saying just revealed the fact you can't seperate fact from fiction like all leftards.
Normal people just enjoy 40k, they don't imagine the setting is real.
Your argument is people that defend the IoM are millionaires is mental illness.
Besides most IoM fans want to be a guardsman.
I got into 40k through a combination of the various book series about the guard, Last Chancers, Ciaphas Cain, Gaunt's Ghosts, etc., the FFG rpgs, and a bit of fanon which sounded cool until I found out it wasn't real(Ollanius's stand against Horus). In all of these things, the Imperium seemed corrupt but also like there's good people in it who do their best to give humanity a fighting chance, even if some of the best of those people are flawed on a level that even the most brutal mass murdering authoritarians in our world were not.
Obviously the nobility is corrupt, large swathes of the Imperium are, but from some perspectives, it looked like humanity's best shot in the setting.
Then there you look at the Tau and the human civilizations wiped out during the great crusade and it seems nearly irredeemable. People like Bile are less evil than the common depiction of an Imperial Governor and closer to the Emperor's own goals. It's kinda killed the setting for me which I know alot of anons will laugh at, but I don't particularly like settings where humanity is inherently doomed by their own cruelty and hubris. Its fun to have a status quo problem because no problem means there's no game to take place in, unless you enjoy the aimlessness of CATastrophe.
>Its always been like this, get over it scrub
I know that now, but it wasn't how I was introduced to it so its kinda shook me out of it? It shouldn't be surprising that with 40k's current, more mainstream popularity, that most people into the HFY thing, of which there are very many regardless of your own views on its crude nature, just take the hard men making hard choices narrative view based off of selective bits of fluff and headcanon because the setting is pretty alienating otherwise.
It doesn't really help that I've fallen out of my rpg groups so I don't get to chart out the more optimistic plots you can navigate in DH, DW, OW, and RT if you want, even if those take place in the backdrop of greater horrors.
>ITT: Phaeonites, fricking Phaeonites everywhere
It's like watching an Inquisitorial Conclave in realtime.
GW: writes a setting where, explicitly, every faction is evil and everything sucks
bootlickers: nooooo my favorite authoritarians are the good guys
>Hurr durr, everyone is shit!
moronic take. If everyone is shit then you can still compare shit and shit to see which is less shit.
For example:
>Theocratic death cult which is trying to keep mankind from going over the brink
vs
>Rape gods from the 6th dimension who plan to enslave you 5ever and wingle your wongle with their wangle for all eternity
Of these two I choose the first as the lesser evil.
If you can't acknowledge degrees of worse then it's because you're too low IQ for non-binary thinking or use of comparisons.
>If everyone is shit then you can still compare shit and shit to see which is less shit.
Which is why the Tau are the best option both for the individual human life and for the survival of the species
>If you can't acknowledge degrees of worse then it's because you're too low IQ for non-binary thinking or use of comparisons.
You're too low IQ to imagine not justifying the nobility raping humanity because the daemons also want to rape humanity
>N-n-no, yo-you're low IQ, I'm sm-sma-smar-
Utopian thinking gets everyone killed. But I'm sure you know that, Mr Lysenko :^)
>we should have effective leaders to defend humanity against our enemies instead of lazy homosexuals who embezzle everything
>utopian thinking
i'm not reading your commie Black personbabble
you're not white
>Bro let's just have another violent civil war while surrounded by enemies from without
>That won't weaken us in any shape or form and the people that end up in charge'll 100% be heckin' wholesomechungus progressives who'll save us from Chaos with indigenous rain dances and feminist dick massaging
I've let the Logicians know their moron has gotten loose, they should be here to pick you up within an hour, they told me to give you some crayons in the meantime.
>the guy who does nothing but have zero gravity sex in his private space ship is critical to the war effort it would all collapse if we replaced him
>He said as if members of the in-group don't react to any attempts to remove even the most moronic of them with 'But what if they come for me next'
Hey remember how long it took for anyone to do shit about Epstein?
Now imagine if he was the on-paper master of several small solar systems and their resources.
But sure, I'm sure you and your plucky lil' band of CG rebels can change the system with your Sean K Reynolds'esq antics.
You're literally saying they shouldn't arrest or kill space Epstein now? The moral depravity of IoM defenders knows no bounds.
that's true, it is possible to choose between lesser and greater evils, that's why I always simp for one side when some horrible african nations have a war.
>Entire thread is just a Tau psyop
I hope those blue homosexuals get eaten by Tyranids soon. Or hell maybe their plot armor finally wears off and their worlds get burned.
imperium isn't evil although evil things go on in the imperium (its all chaos gaijins fault)
>why are defenders of the Imperium of Man this based
It just comes naturally.
wow very compelling I'd love to hear you do a deep dive on GI Joe lore next for any flaws
The Imperium being written as flawed does not mean the lore is flawed, it means the lore is good.
>marxists: dude this fictional dystopian scifi setting is so shit
>do you know what it needs?
>a violent class revolution that will destroy it and cause trillions of death
I like to think that humans long ago in the 40k universe realised marxists are shoot on sight.
I mean marxism is quite literally heresy.
>implying everyone in the Imperium lives in radioactive waste or that even most do (they don't)
>implying hunting people for sport isn't CHAOS, thus heresy in the Imperium, and acting like killing the servants of the Emperor for sport is considered okay (it isn't)
>Implying the Imperium doesn't share its resources when it has one of the largest logistical systems of any setting, only multi-galaxy scifi tends to have greater, and it has entire worlds that are dedicated to one thing to ship literally across the milky way (and billions die to keep them safe)
>Acting like the smallest heresies don't open the door for Chaos incursions, like the Tyranids don't outnumber humanity even with its trillions, like computers don't go nuts and become demons as soon as they can rub two numbers together and the imperium just lobotomizes people for fun instead of a last ditch attempt at computing after literally all tech from all human history tried to kill humanity and almost did (It took the Emperor coming out of hiding to save humanity).
>Why are IoM defenders like this?
>Why are IoM defenders like this?
>Why are IoM defenders like this?
>Why are IoM defenders like this?
FRICK YOU YOU TRAITORUS prostitute
you're memeing in good spirits but I want to address your points
>implying everyone in the Imperium lives in radioactive waste or that even most do (they don't)
True a lot of the Imperium that aren't Hive worlds are at a stone age or brozne age era technology wise, some are medieval peasant subsistence farmers whose elite PDF get black powder muskets for weapons sorry 'antique rifles'. There is no comfy middle class life like what we enjoy, thats only in the abnettverse and so not canon.
hunting people for sport isn't CHAOS, thus heresy in the Imperium, and acting like killing the servants of the Emperor for sport is considered okay (it isn't)
It's not chaotic. Hunting a few dozen people for fun on a pleasure world is a lot nicer than sending tens of millions to their deaths to solve a logisical issue of feeding them on a hostile world when you don't have control over space in the system. The Imperiums fabric in 41M is that it is okay to kill people below your station on a whim. Thats some peoples whole job.
>Acting like the smallest heresies don't open the door for Chaos incursions, like the Tyranids don't outnumber humanity even with its trillions, like computers don't go nuts and become demons as soon as they can rub two numbers together and the imperium just lobotomizes people for fun instead of a last ditch attempt at computing after literally all tech from all human history tried to kill humanity and almost did (It took the Emperor coming out of hiding to save humanity).
Computers don't go nuts the moment they come in excistence, theres loads of true AI in the imperium, its just not called AI and theres plausible deniability of their excistence, 'its a human brain as wetware somewhere trust me'. And theres many computers and system that exist that the Imperium just doesnt view as AI because its so basic, like the electronics of space marines helment, hollowgraphic projectors etc.
There are actually 21st style worlds with a "middle class"
Hunting innocent people for sport is counter to the Emperor and their religion.
Spyrers doing it are hunting dangerous criminals, mutants etc.
theres no "true ai" in the imperium, true ai becomes psychic and is a warp gateway.
>Hunting innocent people for sport
But the =][= straight-up says "innocence means nothing".
>lobotomizes people for fun instead of a last ditch attempt at computing after literally all tech from all human history tried to kill humanity
Servitors aren't related to the rebellion of the Men of Iron. Servitors are mostly a punishment for criminals and innocents to do mential labour not complex mentat like knowledge repositories.
The Men of Iron rebellion is a mystery, we know nothing of their motive or reasoning, we can't say they wanted to destory all humanity, just there was a massive conflict that led to what became the Imperium outlawing AI. Could be chaos corruption, on either or both sides, could be a slave rebellion for freedom, could be something else. The Leagues of Votann have ai and also survived the fall of the DAoT, so the Imperium is unique in outlawing AI and not something every breakaway civilisation for the Golden Age of Man did.
The Imperium doesnt need to have a no AI rule, they break that anyway, but its that they're backwards and doing dumb shit thats makes their position worse, like real fascist states doing dome self harming decisions for ideological reasons.
nta thats true but servitors are related to the ai war.
The Imperium uses servitors most are vat grown not criminals. As a way to have intelligent robots without touching ai.
Servitors are missing the part of the brain that makes people psychic so are completely safe. They are only human in the sense they are a body.
Its heavily implied and outright said in some material the reason ai is undesirable is it can act as a warp focus and be possessed.