You ever consider how tragic it is that the MMO genre could have been the peak of gaming, but in reality it isn't even playable at a baseline level because there's just no way to prevent wikis, build guides, economy lookups websites, etc.
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Mmos with a sophisticated randomizer perhaps?
An AI that changes things based on what you expect to not be changed just to frick with op so he never makes threads again
>he
i thought it wouldn't have been playable at a baseline level because the most popular entries for MMOs (i.e., WoW) have shitty gameplay.
It sucks nowadays but I got my fill in the 90's and 00's before all that became common place. I was sick of the genre by the time WoW came out.
It's weird to me how people are losing their minds
shitting and pissing their pants because a addon dev for WoW won't be updating their addon for SoD so people will actually have to look and and communicate with others to find spells
Classic wow is proof that it wasn't the fault of the genre that it died, it was the players. Classic is seriously one of the most degenerate video game communities to ever exist.
what's the addon? handy notes?
anyway wowhead and youtubers are going to make guides anyway
>YouTubers
*massive thumbnail of some morons face*
HEY GUYS WHATS UP WELCOME BACK TO MY CHANNEL, TODAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT META WOW BUILDS BUT FIRST A 30 MINUTE AD FROM OUR SPONSOR
This also gives you a partial indicator of what the next big MMO might need - design such that wikis, guides etc. cannot ruin the experience and sense of mystery/exploration and the game is extremely hard to "solve" by the sweatlords.
No one has designed a single player game that can accomplish that, never mind an MMO.
Client/Server architecture actually makes this easier than it would be with a singleplayer game.
Consider the following:
>Abilities don't ever show damage numbers
>You can only see HP % on mobs, never actual values
>Character improvements are mostly either horizontal, or difficult to quantify the impact of in raw numerical terms
>At character creation time, you get assigned a particular seed value which changes mats/recipes for professions or even character upgrades, making guidegayging anything much more difficult
Good ideas. How about this...
No health bar. You have no idea how much health the enemy has. They're dead when they're dead.
I like how monster hunter and phantasy star online do this.
>Dataminers leak damage values, hp, etc
>guidegays make several videos on what the best seed stats are
It's simply not possible in the era we're living in
BDO actually prevented it to some extent, early on in the game some stats were hidden. I was really cool, since people speculated some gear would be better/worse but no one knew forsure. People would also spend time testing it and various other systems that people didn't understand.
The server side stuff got leaked though and they just made it public, which ruined a lot of the mystery. But if a dev was actually committed to it they could make an MMO with the intention of preventing wikis/guides/ect, it just hasn't been done since creating MMOs are already risky financially and doing an MMO that's not a cookie cuter wow clone even more risky.
It's possible to do some of the stuff hes talking about (but not all) if you keep it server side.
>Dataminers leak damage values, hp, etc
It's not possible for dataminers to leak logic and values stored exclusively server-side
>guidegays make several videos on what the best seed stats are
You will never see your seed. Again, it would be a server-side value.
>You will never see your seed. Again, it would be a server-side value.
People don't see their minecraft seed again yet speedrunners are able to triangulate where an end portal is just by looking at a mountain. If metaBlack folk notice that high dex builds clear content faster on average then there'll be hundreds of videos telling people to reroll characters into high dex. Whether that be 7, 10, 12 or 5, as long as its comparatively higher than your other stats then you have achieved and created the meta
Procedural generation. Constant updates that change the meta. A more complex system than ev training from Pokemon. Something invisible to the player that's hard to pin down. Video game strategy is like real life strategy. It's annoying because it's a video game, but i think it's unavoidable. The quest for a totally balanced game. Try to aim for strengths and weaknesses of each class that complement each other well.
>peak of gaming
not with a multiplayer game
MMOs were kinda the first, "this is the metaverse."
Shitty litRPG novels taught me that future AIs are going to make MMOs that play like every other genre of game and also use advanced VR in about 10 years from now in the year 2022, so things'll turn around
To a degree, yeah it sucks that it's impossible to prevent a meta-community forming outside of the game and operating on their own clout/patreon/subscriber chasing value system totally divorced from the game itself.
If anything WoW helped kill MMOs. It was the most popular one.
I still don’t understand why there aren’t any MORPGs. Just like 8 people per campaign who can’t be on opposing sides, team up, or frick off and do whatever. There’s no need for dozens of players on a game.
NWN 1 and 2?
the idea of a virtual world is cool, but "you" still exist in the real world. you still need to eat, sleep, shit, work, pay bills, and exist outside of the cool virtual world. these are real physical needs that cannot be met existing in the virtual world, so the virtual world will always inherently have less value than the physical world.
the initially novel idea of interacting with people online has been superceded by apps like discord and tiktok and reddit. fricking everything is multiplayer so that's also gone. all that's left is what XIV and WoW have become - co-ordinating a group to execute a certain series of actions in the right sequence to beat a boss, and an endless treadmill of pointlessly raising numbers so you can execute those actions slightly faster.
>play mmo
>do everything solo or just join pubs for multiplayer only content
>eventually get to end game
>realize I need to join some gay's discord and talk to other gays so I can get DILDAR THE ULTIMATE BOW since raids need atleast 3 people to do the hokey pokey to initiate the damage phase for porky piglicious the rightful king of hell
>drop mmo
>Dildo the ultimate bow
And thanks to cheaters you can’t have any data on your computer so were bound by the speed of the internet.
AI questing will be the future
No. MMO's were never good, and never had potential to be good. They were always designed to be poor chat-room games, because that is what the medium is.
You cannot write a story where dozens of people are the same main character and then put them in a world and expect anything good to happen. You cannot design gameplay to be tight when all combat involves multiple human beings. It's a degenerated form and always was.
At best, a gallery for looking at art and listening to music with others. But museums are far better at this.
It only works when no one is the main character or 1 person is, but the rest of you are acknowledged and become important. The problem with these games is that not only is everyone the main character, the people don't really react to all of you. People in the world should be reacting to your guild or clan doing quests. They should notice when you all come into a tavern. People should acknowledge all of you. If they get to know you, they should reference other players. In your group and outside your group. If there are enemy players they should reference them. If some opposing player becomes a bad guy and rolls through some town. When your good guy clan rolls up the townspeople should mention that <insert player name> was here earlier. Some of this isn't feasible, but you get why MMOs kinda fail in what they're trying to be.
These cases would also be poor, since there would be no storyboarding or writing at all besides "world text".
In the end you would end up writing a generic narrative for x, y, z class, race, faction and you would have at least dozens of this exact same narrative carrying out. The narratives would both be poor and also fail to satisfy a place of permanence in the world.
Or you can leave it all to emergent (lol) and see what level of writing ability the standard player has.
Well yeah, it's a pipe dream to execute. They can't even get other npcs to acknowledge you as a group it seems. Not being the main character requires a more "linear" scripted game or extremely good AI. And that's just for a single-player game. I'd like to see more games where you aren't exactly the main character. Not even in an Oblivion way, but where your actions determine how important you are. Or you never are the main character. It would be hard to implement to replicate the feeling of just being average.
Star Citizen will be the peak
You can't look up skill on a wiki and get skillful at the game, so as long as the game requires skill to play effectively it's fine.
This is why childrens MMOs were the peak of the genre. Nobody looked up the optimal minigame to farm coins, you'd just get on the jetpack one or whichever one you liked because it was fun
The way MMOs are built around is mainly play retention, and doesn't ever hold up a good arcade style gameplay that had a natural flow of progression.
There always has to be rng upgrading gear, super rare drops, and daily required shit.
I remember back in the prime of Eve Online things were getting so dramatic in role-playing that people were getting mugged and robbed IRL. Different fricking world back then.
Wikis are the least issue, because the issue is with the people themselves, and how they act and treat the game.
People treat the game like shit because it is shit, maybe if developers made better games people would like them more.
Devs need to protect the players from themselves, it's their job.
MMO's are barely even games. Games where you aren't able to play offline solo, or even worse, you won't be able to play at all when they kill it are worthless
As someone who likes doing trading/crafting: I want an MMO where distance really matters. No fast travel. No automatic item transportation. Buy something from the AH? It gets mailed to you. A player (or eventually an NPC running snail mail) needs to deliver it from Auction House A to Auction House B. Actual markets develop when it takes time and effort to go from place to place. It will bounce people off for sure, but frick it they have other games they can play.
>No fast travel. No automatic item transportation
I feel like this would be good for a game, but a lot of games cop out and allow fast travel for a resource/gold cost. And then people complain and the resource/gold cost gets lowered to basically nothing after some time.
That would be interesting. They could limit your items or carrying capacity. Charge extra for more cargo. Then it would create a micro business sim. That reminds me that whenever i played mmos i was never a buy low sell high guy. I was always the guy who got resources myself and sold them or made them into something then sold them. Some people were big on doing that to make money. I guess i'm dumb. My mind struggles with that concept. I understand it, but my first thought to make money isn't to buy something and try to flip it. My first thought is to provide a good or service.
That would be cool. To test the concept, they could start with a small game world initially. It opens itself up for a future mechanic of attacking travelers carrying items.
you say like you want this, but soon you'd realize that it would be just a chore
I'm the sort of guy who loved driving ANTs in Planetside 1.
EVE is a little like that
here here op, mmos have always been shit but with add-ons and such people just want them to auto play themselves so they can get incremental gear drops to brag to people about, normally people they used to play the mmo with 10+ years ago
these types of people don't have jobs or anything going for them so it gives them some fulfillment, usually the reason they don't have anything going for them is because they are extremely lazy but will say they are depressed
mmos sound like the peak of gaming because they encompass "you can do everything" except you cant and they have to pay server costs